27/11/2013 Daily Politics


27/11/2013

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This is the Daily Politics. Waging war on EU migration, the Prime

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Minister says he wants to make it harder for EU immigrants to claim

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benefits in the UK, and they will not qualify for jobless benefits

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until they have been here for three months. They will not receive

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housing benefit immediately either. It has led to what EU commission

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accusing Mr Cameron of an unfortunate overreaction and warning

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that Britain risks being seen as the nasty country of the EU. We will ask

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the Bulgarian ambassador if he is right. Will it get nasty at PMQs? It

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normally does, tune in for the action at midday.

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And we will be discussing pigs in the trough, not MPs and their

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expenses, or even Andrew and his noises, the real thing!

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All that and more coming up in the next 90 minutes and with us for the

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duration two former BBC employees who have moved on to bigger and

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better things, I wish we all could! That is what it says down here.

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Esther McVey, formerly of the Heaven And Earth Show, Shopping City and

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How Do They Do That? , who was now the employment must. Owen Smith used

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to work on Radio 4's flagship Today programme, never heard of it either!

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For the better-known programme in Wales, Dragon's Eye, we all watched

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that! He is now the shadow Welsh secretary, I do not know whether

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that is a promotional deal motion. Welcome to you both. What a thing to

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say! If we decide to take an early lunch... Just move in here. We do

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not get the autocue! Let's talk about their current day jobs, Esther

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is pretty rare these days, let me get this right, she's female, a

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Tory, she has a seat in the North of England, and she is not standing

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down at the next election, a bit unusual. At the last count, there

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are three standing down, three and a half if you include Louise Mensch!

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And you have managed to escape the exodus. Absolutely, I am a

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Conservative MP on Merseyside, you said the North, but in my hometown.

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Merseyside is the North, isn't it? Yes, I was just pointing it out

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specifically. Sarah Wollaston, another one of the 2010 intake, she

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says something needs to be done to detoxify this role of being a female

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Tory MP. And? Go on! Is she right? Absolutely not! For me, someone who

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tried for ten years to become a Conservative MP, and the only one on

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Merseyside, it was because I believe in what are timeless values. It is

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not always a sexy message, sometimes that is the difficulty, living

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within your means, saving, looking after yourself, having these sort of

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freedoms to do things, not always sexy, but it is the truth. It is

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about a long-term message, about building strong foundations, it is

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about being secure, and all of these things, we have just got to reach

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out and make sure that they are relevant at the moment, which we

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know they are, with making sure workdays, making sure education

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system is sound, so you know... It was not a Jew for a speech, just a

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question! So you do not agree with Sarah Wollaston, do you agree with

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Nick Boles that you are seen as the party of the rich? Absolutely not,

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it is a party that cut through all classes, all parts of the country,

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all different regions, all different ethnicities, because it is built on

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very strong foundations and core values. Everybody knows you have to

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live within your means, everybody knows... But you are proportionally

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more southerners, you are an exception. That being the case, we

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need to make sure I am no longer the exception, that we go out and build

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on what we have got, but it is the oldest party, it is always

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modernising, the first to have a female leader, all these things. So

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you do not agree with Sarah Wollaston, you do not agree with

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Nick Boles, are there any of your colleagues that you agree with?

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Yeah, the rest of them! They all believe that this is the party to be

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in. Either way this is the party that is actually digging the country

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out of the mess, and that is what we always do, isn't it? Pick up the

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pieces when we have been left in debt, left in a vulnerable position,

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and that is what we do. It is good to see you so on message! Listen, I

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am not on message, hang on a sec, Andrew, I am not on message, this is

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the reason I bought for ten years to become a Conservative MP, because

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that is what I believe in. It is not about message, that is the reason I

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did it. I do not know why this individual Tory MP decided to

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resign, but the reason the papers are running a story about the Tory

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party potentially not being a welcoming place for women is that

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there is still a perception that the Tory party went through what was

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effectively a spin operation, trying to present itself as having

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modernised, and did manifestly has not. Spin operation?! You would

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never get Labour doing that! They have tried to present themselves as

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a modernised party... The key thing is, you said, I do not know why she

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stood down, and that is why what you have just said was all hyperbole and

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a spin. You don't know why. I want to come on to Scotland, and

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Labour's attitude towards it. Do you agree with the Welsh First Minister,

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Carwyn Jones, that Scotland should not be allowed to keep sterling as

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part of a currency union? I don't think he said that. What he said

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was, in the event that Scotland voted to leave the UK, he would hope

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and expect that the Welsh Assembly Government, the Welsh people more

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broadly, as part of a currency union, would have some say... He

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described it as a recipe for instability, and these things matter

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in a time of crisis. I think that is entirely right, it would be

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destabilising in Scotland left the UK. I think what he said was that he

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would expect the Welsh people and the Welsh government, as one of the

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parties in the union, one of the parties in the currency union, to

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have a proper seat at the table in any negotiation that followed a

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referendum to get Scotland to leave the union. I would be uncomfortable

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being part of a currency union with competing governments trying to run

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it. I think that is a legitimate concern. Are you against it? I would

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be worried that if Scotland were to leave the union, we would expect

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there to be a currency union between a Scotland outside the Union in

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other respects, but inside the currency. What he was pointing out

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was two things, that there are many and answered questions in

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yesterday's white paper, and that Wales would expect to have a say in

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how it would play out. Are you against a currency union of Scotland

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went independent? Personally, I do not think Scotland will go

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independent. I would like to put on record that I do not think they are

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going to. Look, Scotland is having a referendum, and you can only have

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the debate if you assume, on some of the questions that people like me

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asked, that it goes independent. You can do other questions that assume

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that it stays part of the Union, but if it did go independent, would

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Labour support a currency union Kaymer on current evidence and

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polling, it is reasonable to assume they will not, but I would expect

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there to be a very detailed discussion between the British

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government... Of course there will be a detailed discussion, Alex

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Salmond is not fixing independence until 2016, that is not what I asked

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you. It is very hard to say, isn't it, whether it would be the rest of

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the UK at that point, Britain's interests to expel Scotland from the

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currency union? Since devolution, why has Wales been the worst

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performing part of the UK? In what sense? According to the centre for

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public policy at the University of Glasgow, in terms of productivity,

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per capita GDP, unemployment, performance of schools and

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hospitals. What more do I need to say? That is a very sweeping

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generalisation, I do not think it stands up to scrutiny. I have read

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the research, and I do not think it stands up. In terms of per capita

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GDP? We have declined versus England in terms of per capita GDP, but the

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overall amount of GDP generated by Wales over that period as increased,

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the volume of jobs has increased, productivity on three or four

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different measures has increased. The reality is that we know that

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Wales, like the north-east of England and other post-industrial

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parts of Britain, like the north-west, are parts of Britain

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where it is more difficult to generate economic growth, and that

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is why we have seen those parts struggling to a greater extent.

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Let's be clear, Wales is hit harder by the policies of the Tory

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governorate in Westminster, worse economic performance in Wales as a

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result of greater difficulties. You'll be pleased to know that an

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employment, when you talk about national things like jobs, you be

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pleased to know that unemployment is significantly down... We outweigh

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over and we have to stop. It is a good start! Jo. It is more than a

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year since Andrew Mitchell clashed with a police officer as he cycled

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out of Downing Street, but did he use the word pleb? Yesterday the

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Crown Prosecution Service said there was insufficient evidence to support

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either the former chief whip, who insists he did not, or the police

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officer, who says he did. Both are sticking to their stories, this is

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what Andrew Mitchell had to say yesterday. I have told the truth

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about these incidents. The police did not. My reputation was

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destroyed. I was vilified relentlessly over 33 days, with over

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808 females received during the course of that first week. -- 800

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hate e-mails. I and my family were driven from my home, with as many as

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20 journalists and photographers camped outside. My children were

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followed by the press. My 92-year-old mother-in-law was

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pursued in Swansea. I was spat out in the street. I lost my job after a

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career spanning more than 25 years in Parliament, serving my

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constituents, my party and my country. Andrew Mitchell giving a

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press conference yesterday, Esther McVey, do you feel sorry for him? I

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do, and I think that was very heartfelt, because you have the

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trial in the media, speculation, nobody got to the root of what

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happened, and yet people felt free to say whatever they wanted to, and

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when you look at what happens to his family, what happened to his wife,

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his mother-in-law, his daughter, you know, you have to reflect on that

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and think what the man as an individual has gone through. He

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started off with the word the truth, and that is what we are searching

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for. It is still disputed. That goes to the very heart, really, of, you

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know, the police, the organisation, is this something we have faith in?

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I think it is really important... Have you lost faith in the police?

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No, but they need to get to the bottom of this to ensure that

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everybody has faith, that they will always be treated fairly. What we

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are looking at here is an unfair situation, and an unresolved

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situation. Was David Cameron wrong to sack him, in effect? At the time,

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what he needed to do was not have a distraction of what was going on in

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the House, he was the chief whip, so in that regard, you thought, I do

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not want this stopping us getting on with our day-to-day business,

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because whether it is opposition, the media or whatever, it would

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constantly being pulled back to the person, rather than the job to get

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the country right. I understood what he did, and so Andrew did not want

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to be a distraction to the Government business... I think he

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would like to come back. You know what? He may well do. Do you think

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so? If he is exonerated? There is not an opportunity for him to be

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completely exonerated, he would have to take some sort of libel action

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himself. You think he should clear his name once and for all? I cannot

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say what he should and should not do, but if he believes that is the

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party should follow, and he's a very tenacious man, obviously a strong

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man, if he thinks that he can put his family through that, then that

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is what he should pursue and do. What about the police? Esther McVey

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talked about the trust in the police, we have had this statement

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from the CPS, one officer charged, five others facing misconduct

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proceedings. How do you feel about the police now? Disappointed,

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because I think all of us want our police to be as well respected and

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well trusted as they have been traditionally, and this has clearly

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cast a pall over policing in Britain, and we do need to trust our

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police. It is a vital part of our society, people have got trust and

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faith in the honesty, above all else, the police, and therefore this

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is a serious matter. I know there is now one prosecution that is being

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taken forward, but it is still a question of the said, she said,

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there are still contested evidence about who said what at the gates of

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Downing Street. But I think the whole affair, as it has played out,

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has been deeply unfortunate. As it poisoned relations between the

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police and politicians particularly? No, because most people operating as

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politicians in their constituencies or in Westminster work extremely

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well alongside local and national plea, and I think there are still

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respect and trust. And still a general belief the police will act

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honestly but we do and you need to see further reforms. It's crucial we

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have standards in the police that people can properly respectful we

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have the report from Lord Stevens in which he said, in respect of this

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Plebgate affair, it underlines to have stronger standards,

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investigative standards, the recommendation you should merge the

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IPCC and the HMI C. They shouldn't investigate themselves? There seems

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to be missed trust and duplication because it is the police

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investigating the police, quite often. I think we need to review

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that to restore some trust. Should Andrew Mitchell be given his job

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back? I don't know, it's a question for the Prime Minister. I don't know

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what he said Downing Street also I know what he says and what the

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policeman said he says, so I'm not in a position to judge. If the said

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what he is alleged to have said, it's a serious thing. Why do this

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become such a big issue? In part, it's about the perception that the

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Tories are the party which represents the village and the rich

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in this country and that's why it rang true for lots of people.

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Fundamentally, it actually getting the country back on its feet and

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getting an extra million people into employment. And cutting taxes.

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Astor, the notion of the Tory party is that party of the workers is

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ridiculous. I will have to stop you there. Andrew. Now how do you try

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and see off UKIP and please your backbenchers all in one go? Talk

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tough on immigration, of course, especially EU immogration. David

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Cameron has outlined a number of new measures to crack down on EU

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migrants coming to the UK in the future. Writing, ironically, in that

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most pro-Eu of papers, the Financial Times, the Prime Minister said

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people were deeply concerned about levels of migration from Bulgaria

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and Romania. So what are the details? The Borgen British

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podcasting has the information. Brigitte Nyborg, you can call me.

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David Cameron has today announced a number of restrictions to welfare

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for current and future migrants from other EU countries, which he hopes

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to implement next year with the support of the Liberal Democrats. Mr

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Cameron says migrants shouldn't be able to receive out-of-work benefits

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for the first three months. And payments will be stopped after six

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months unless the claimant has a genuine chance of a job. An earnings

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threshold will also be introduced, new migrants will not be able to

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claim housing benefit immediately. And anyone not seeking work will be

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sent back and won't be able to return for 12 months. The

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announcement comes ahead of the restrictions affecting Bulgarian and

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Romanians being able to come here and work, which have been in place

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since 2007, expiring at the end of next month. Mr Cameron also wants to

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restrict the numbers coming to the UK from current and new EU countries

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in the future, saying the right of free movement in Europe couldn't be

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unqualified. But European Commissioner Laszlo Andor has warned

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David Cameron of hysteria and the UK being seen as a nasty country. While

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Labour's Yvette Cooper said the Prime Minister was playing catch-up

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and copying their idea. Andrew, back to you. Thanks, Borgen. I'm joined

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now by the head of UKIP's policy unit, Tim Aker. You have a policy

:18:32.:18:35.

unit? When did that happen? If David Cameron got that through, we would

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have more controlled migration from Eastern Europe and still all the

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benefits of labour capital. You can tell there's an election round the

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corner because David Cameron starts talking like a Eurosceptic. They've

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already said the knot breeze to this, they're not least the right to

:18:54.:18:56.

residency proposals so they take Mr the European Court of Justice. If he

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gets this through, it's a step in the right direction but we have

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known this when Bulgaria and Romania joined. Why now am so late, are they

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talking about it now? We have known for ages the restrictions are coming

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off in January. And this is now November for the why has he waited

:19:20.:19:24.

so long? He hasn't waited so long. It's two years worth of work, Iain

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Duncan Smith, Teresa May, putting these in place and fermenting them.

:19:31.:19:34.

There are various stages you got to deal with, domestic legislation but

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you have got to see what is acceptable, what would be working

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within the EU framework. None of this will be in place by January.

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Yes, it will, actually. The two things in place will be the habitual

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residence test, a tougher, stronger more accurate thing which wasn't

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there before. The other thing in place in January is the six months

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in the country, which is coming from the Home Office. You don't need

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legislation for that? So it happening? It's not a border control

:20:09.:20:15.

issue, to benefit issue. You're not restricting the numbers. European

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commissioners are very unhappy with this so they will do what they have

:20:22.:20:24.

done over the rights to residency proposals, they will take it to the

:20:25.:20:27.

European court of justice. That takes a long while. There are two

:20:28.:20:34.

parts to this. It will take a while but the numbers will still come.

:20:35.:20:42.

200,000 Roma here. You need to have a serious discussion about where the

:20:43.:20:45.

EU has competence and it doesn't control the borders. You are quite

:20:46.:20:50.

right, the commission standing alone here. We have now gathered support

:20:51.:20:55.

across various countries across Europe who are like-minded with us

:20:56.:20:58.

and it shows how far removed the commissioners's views are the people

:20:59.:21:04.

on the ground. It's taken two years to get on the ground. Iain Duncan

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Smith was in Paris last week, and we are getting a critical mass who are

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thinking the same things. We will have the habitual residence test,

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the removal after six months, and in the various other things which are

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coming will be in place next year. I will come to Labour in a minute.

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Which European countries agreed welfare payments should be stopped

:21:29.:21:31.

after six months? They have different rules of the moment, so

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you have places like Germany, they would say you have got to have done

:21:36.:21:39.

stuff so long, different rules, we are all different. But they don't

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agree with that specifically? Whether it's from general taxation

:21:46.:21:48.

or the insurance rules or contributory system in the paid

:21:49.:21:51.

into, so the rules are slightly different. Which country agrees that

:21:52.:21:55.

those not seeking work will be removed and not able to attend the

:21:56.:21:59.

12 months? That its future work going on for the other four David

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Cameron... You told me you had all these countries lined up who were

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backing us. And they will be Germany, Spain, Denmark... All these

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countries support that? They are working with us, that's right. Where

:22:17.:22:19.

is the evidence any of these countries reporters on this? These

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are the negotiations which have been done the two years. I follow German

:22:25.:22:27.

and French politics carefully and I'm not aware of those governments

:22:28.:22:32.

supporting this. Were you at the same meeting of Iain Duncan Smith

:22:33.:22:38.

two weeks ago in Paris? Are you telling me Iain Duncan Smith had a

:22:39.:22:41.

breakthrough at these meetings and France and Germany will support the

:22:42.:22:46.

return to host country after 12 months? I am saying is this is what

:22:47.:22:51.

we are all agreeing at the moment for the David Cameron is leading the

:22:52.:22:55.

way. I'm asking a game for them to the French and Germans agree with

:22:56.:22:59.

this or not? If they do, where are they on the record saying they do

:23:00.:23:05.

so? You do your domestic, consensus of opinion,

:23:06.:23:39.

benefits for the first three months? Yes I supported as eight months ago.

:23:40.:23:45.

Does Labour support stopping payments after six months and less

:23:46.:23:49.

of a genuine chance for a job? On all of these things, actually. We

:23:50.:23:53.

have not seen the details for that we have only seen one article, so it

:23:54.:23:57.

needs to be looked at. They are pretty clear policies. Will new

:23:58.:24:02.

migrants not be able to claim housing benefit immediately? I

:24:03.:24:07.

think, again, alongside the three-month rule, that's probably

:24:08.:24:10.

reasonable. Do you agree those not seeking work should be removed and

:24:11.:24:16.

not be able to return for 12 months? Again, I want to see the

:24:17.:24:21.

detail. They are talking about... They are saying if they see beggars

:24:22.:24:25.

and vagrants from Eastern Europe and they can't show that they are

:24:26.:24:29.

queueing up to do any work, they will be removed. Do you agree with

:24:30.:24:33.

that? Howard sack the other going to determine that question how will

:24:34.:24:42.

they know? -- how are they going to determine that? So you might not

:24:43.:24:48.

support that? We need to see the detail, Andrew. The key thing, the

:24:49.:24:55.

law changes. The reality is, Labour... Left us in this mess. It

:24:56.:25:02.

was the way we dealt with immigration. You have done this. The

:25:03.:25:08.

key thing, the reason we have been ahead of the game... You haven't.

:25:09.:25:18.

You have to let him speak. If that Cooper gave a speech in which she

:25:19.:25:21.

said you should title the habitual residency. Too late. We have been

:25:22.:25:27.

doing it for two years. People should be of claim benefits abroad.

:25:28.:25:33.

And dealing with a minimum wage. Excuse me. Excuse me. Can I just...

:25:34.:25:39.

It's all about party politics. Listen to me. This is an unpleasant

:25:40.:25:45.

arms race for the three of you, trying to be nasty to foreigners.

:25:46.:25:49.

That's what the three of you wondering. Labour, of all parties,

:25:50.:25:55.

which allowed for mass immigration when you were in power, for you now

:25:56.:26:01.

to try to outdo the Tories in being nasty. Migrants, it really is quite

:26:02.:26:06.

remarkable. Labour has learned the lesson that we fail to appreciate

:26:07.:26:11.

what a big impact it would have on working-class communities where

:26:12.:26:14.

there's a lot of low-wage people. And now we want to recognise the

:26:15.:26:19.

fact that we should put in place transitional controls, we should

:26:20.:26:21.

have thought about the impact on the working classes. Should've,

:26:22.:26:29.

could've, would have. Excuse me. Be quiet, both of you. A final question

:26:30.:26:36.

to my UKIP guest. Do you think a lot of Romanians and Bulgarians will

:26:37.:26:40.

come in January? Yes. Potentially for the if I was in their position,

:26:41.:26:45.

and very low standard of living. These two have been bickering for

:26:46.:26:48.

years over this issue. UKIP is on the rise. The Tory held seat, if

:26:49.:26:58.

third now. Congratulations. Are you determine to speak over every time I

:26:59.:27:01.

speak? You're doing pretty well so far. Nobody said the challenge of

:27:02.:27:05.

being the UK's foremost broadcaster was an easy one. Trying to maintain

:27:06.:27:10.

impartiality during such a turbulent debate is nigh on impossible. Maybe

:27:11.:27:14.

I shouldn't confess this but, well, I feel I'm among friends. Well, I

:27:15.:27:19.

did until I started this programme! The question is this: In or out? Can

:27:20.:27:24.

we still dip our Scottish shortbread into our English breakfast tea? And,

:27:25.:27:27.

if the biscuit gets soggy and falls in, whose turn is it to clean up the

:27:28.:27:39.

Daily Politics mug? Not me! Well, my bravehearts, you can make the

:27:40.:27:43.

choice. Destiny can be in your hands whether you're from Paisley or

:27:44.:27:45.

Penge, Portadown or Pontypridd! But only if you win this little beauty.

:27:46.:27:51.

Well read. We'll remind you how to enter in a minute. But let's see if

:27:52.:27:53.

you can remember when this happened. We have become a grandmother. Other

:27:54.:28:09.

grandson. Called Michael. -- they grandson.

:28:10.:28:15.

# How can we dance when our world is turning? # How do we sleep whilst

:28:16.:28:28.

our Beds are burning? Here we are for the first time in the House of

:28:29.:28:35.

Commons televised. # Here we are, back to reality. I still think I'm

:28:36.:28:42.

doing what I believe to be right. # I hear your voice, it's like an

:28:43.:29:00.

angel sighing # I have no choice, I hear your voice # Feels like flying.

:29:01.:29:08.

# I close my eyes. To be in with a chance of winning a

:29:09.:29:16.

Daily Politics mug, send your answer to our special quiz email address.

:29:17.:29:21.

That's [email protected] And you can see the full terms and conditions

:29:22.:29:23.

for Guess The Year on our website. He has been fired, I can tell you.

:29:24.:29:41.

Let's take a look at Big Ben. . Yes, Prime Minister's Questions is on its

:29:42.:29:45.

way. If you'd like to comment on proceedings you can email us at

:29:46.:29:47.

[email protected] Or tweet your thoughts using the hashtag

:29:48.:29:51.

#bbcdp. We'll read some out after PMQs. Nick Robinson is here fresh

:29:52.:29:59.

north of the border. There is not an earthquake in Messman stuck because

:30:00.:30:06.

Big Ben was bouncing up and down. -- in Westminster. I have got to ask,

:30:07.:30:17.

what a beautiful Mr Miller band to do today? It will be interesting to

:30:18.:30:21.

see if he wants to mention immigration. -- Ed Miliband. I doubt

:30:22.:30:28.

that. I think you'll want to talk about health. Let's go straight to

:30:29.:30:31.

the Commons. This morning I had meetings of

:30:32.:30:38.

ministerial colleagues and others and in addition to my duties in this

:30:39.:30:41.

House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

:30:42.:30:48.

This week I have launched a cross-party campaign with the

:30:49.:30:54.

support of the GMB union to provide justice for the 3230 workers and

:30:55.:31:00.

their families who were victims of blacklisting by 44 construction

:31:01.:31:03.

companies. We have written to all the companies involved and will post

:31:04.:31:07.

their responses on our website. Will the Prime Minister join me in this

:31:08.:31:12.

campaign to support hard-working people and stamp out the terrible

:31:13.:31:18.

disease of blacklisting? I am very glad to join my honourable friend,

:31:19.:31:21.

and I congratulate him on the work that he has done on this issue.

:31:22.:31:25.

Blacklisting is illegal, blacklisting is wrong. This sort of

:31:26.:31:30.

intimidation is wrong, just as intimidation of non-striking workers

:31:31.:31:34.

or indeed managers is also wrong. I am happy to condemn both forms of

:31:35.:31:37.

intimidation, and I hope others will as well. Mr Ed Miliband. Mr

:31:38.:31:48.

Speaker... Mr Speaker, following his U-turn on payday lending, can I ask

:31:49.:31:52.

the Prime Minister why he has moved in two short months from believing

:31:53.:31:57.

that intervening in broken markets is living, and I quote, in a Marxist

:31:58.:32:01.

universe, to believing it is a solemn duty of government? Well, as

:32:02.:32:07.

I have said, there are some dreadful practices that take place in the

:32:08.:32:11.

payday lending market, and there are some very disturbing cases, and

:32:12.:32:14.

frankly for 13 years they did absolutely nothing about it! So I am

:32:15.:32:22.

proud of the fact, I am proud of the fact that we have intervened to

:32:23.:32:25.

regulate this market properly, and we are also going to be put in place

:32:26.:32:30.

a cap. Mr Speaker, let me be very fair to the right honourable friend.

:32:31.:32:35.

I followed very carefully his interview on Desert Island discs,

:32:36.:32:38.

and I think it is there to say that he is no longer a follower of marks,

:32:39.:32:46.

he is having angels instead. -- Engels. Ed Miliband!

:32:47.:32:51.

You would have thought he would be spending his time as Prime Minister,

:32:52.:32:59.

Mr Speaker. What is surprisingly off what is surprising, Mr Speaker, is

:33:00.:33:03.

that the Chancellor said just a few weeks ago, and I quote, that

:33:04.:33:09.

attempts to fix prices crash endeavour and blunt aspiration. For

:33:10.:33:13.

the avoidance of doubt, can he just reassure us that his U-turn had

:33:14.:33:19.

nothing to do with the prospect of losing a vote in parliament the

:33:20.:33:24.

following day? I am sorry the right honourable gentleman has had a

:33:25.:33:27.

slight sense of humour failure, not a very good start to these

:33:28.:33:34.

exchanges! I have done a little bit of research, Mr Speaker, and in

:33:35.:33:37.

three years he has never asked me a question about payday lending, not

:33:38.:33:43.

once! Not a single question. I have been asked about all sorts of

:33:44.:33:46.

things, look, it is right to intervene when markets are not

:33:47.:33:50.

working and people are getting hurt, that is what we are doing. 13

:33:51.:33:57.

years they had, they looked at a cap in 2004, and they rejected it. That

:33:58.:34:00.

was when he was working in the Treasury. We have looked at a cap,

:34:01.:34:04.

we looked at the evidence from Australia and elsewhere, it is the

:34:05.:34:08.

right thing to do, and I am proud that we are doing it. Ed Miliband!

:34:09.:34:13.

Mr Speaker, even by his standards, this is a bit rich. On the 22nd of

:34:14.:34:20.

May 2012, they voted against capping payday lenders. On the 4th of July

:34:21.:34:25.

2011, they voted against capping payday lenders. On the 3rd of

:34:26.:34:30.

February 2011, they voted against capping payday lenders. We were for

:34:31.:34:33.

it, they were against it. Clearly, he wants to claim... Clearly, he

:34:34.:34:40.

wants to claim this is a principled decision, so can the Prime Minister

:34:41.:34:44.

explain why the Government intervening to cap the cost of

:34:45.:34:49.

credit is right, but the Government capping energy bills is communism? I

:34:50.:34:54.

feel like one of those radio hosts who says, and your complaint is,

:34:55.:34:59.

caller? We are taking action when they did not take action. We are

:35:00.:35:04.

doing the right thing. He should be standing up and congratulating as.

:35:05.:35:11.

He wants to turn... He wants to turn to energy, let me turn specifically

:35:12.:35:16.

to energy. The point is we do not have control of the international

:35:17.:35:19.

price of gas, so what we need to do is have more competition to get

:35:20.:35:24.

profits down, and roll back the costs of regulation to get prices

:35:25.:35:28.

down. That is a proper energy policy, and when it comes... We know

:35:29.:35:33.

his version of intervention, his version of intervention is take

:35:34.:35:36.

money from the Co-op and do not ask any questions! Ed Miliband! Mr

:35:37.:35:43.

Speaker, Mr Speaker, here is the reality... Here is the reality, this

:35:44.:35:51.

is not a minor policy adjustment, it is an intellectual collapse of their

:35:52.:35:57.

position, because the two months, because for two months they have

:35:58.:36:01.

been saying that if you take action to intervene in markets, it is back

:36:02.:36:06.

to the 1970s, it is Marxism, and now they realise they are on the wrong

:36:07.:36:12.

side of public opinion. That is the reality. Now, on energy, on

:36:13.:36:18.

energy... On energy, he must realise... Order! We will get

:36:19.:36:23.

through Question Time. However long it takes! I appealed to members

:36:24.:36:28.

simply to calm down and think of the electorate, who we are here to

:36:29.:36:33.

serve. Very straightforward, Ed Miliband! They are shouting because

:36:34.:36:39.

they have no answer, Mr Speaker, and he must realise the gravity of the

:36:40.:36:42.

situation, when there are figures this week showing 31,000 deaths as a

:36:43.:36:47.

result of the cold winter, with around 10,000 as a result of cold

:36:48.:36:52.

homes. So can he explain how things are going to be better this winter

:36:53.:36:57.

than they were last? Well, what they will be this winter, and this is a

:36:58.:37:01.

vitally important issue, what there will be is the cold weather payments

:37:02.:37:04.

that we have doubled from their previous level. They will be in

:37:05.:37:09.

place. The Winter fuel payment will be in place, the warm homes discount

:37:10.:37:14.

that helps two million people in our country, that will be in place. The

:37:15.:37:18.

increase of the pension, that will be in place. Now, look, every excess

:37:19.:37:23.

deaths in the winter is a tragedy, and there were 31,000 last year. He

:37:24.:37:28.

might care to recall that when he was Energy Secretary, there were

:37:29.:37:34.

36,500. Ed Miliband! Mr Speaker, I asked him a very specific question,

:37:35.:37:38.

how will it be better this winter than last? On the reality, prices

:37:39.:37:44.

are going to be higher than last. For the average household, the

:37:45.:37:48.

British Gas bill went up ?123 this week, and it was also revealed that

:37:49.:37:54.

the profits of the energy companies are up 75% in the last year alone.

:37:55.:38:00.

Why, under his government, is unacceptable for the British people

:38:01.:38:04.

to pay exorbitant prices to fund exorbitant profits? What is

:38:05.:38:10.

intellectual incoherence is not to address the fact that there were

:38:11.:38:13.

36,500 winter deaths when he was standing here as Energy Secretary,

:38:14.:38:18.

and that number was low at last year. What is intellectual

:38:19.:38:21.

incoherence is to promise a price freeze for 20 months' time when you

:38:22.:38:26.

do not control the global price of gas, incoherent and a total con.

:38:27.:38:30.

While we are on the collapse of intellectual positions, more

:38:31.:38:34.

borrowing, more spending, more taxing - exactly the things that got

:38:35.:38:37.

us into this mess in the first place, and he remains committed to

:38:38.:38:43.

each and everyone! Ed Miliband! Mr Speaker, I will tell you what is a

:38:44.:38:47.

con, it is saying one thing before the election and then another thing

:38:48.:38:53.

as Prime Minister. Here is what the honourable member for Richmond, here

:38:54.:38:56.

is what the honourable member for Richmond said about him, he likes

:38:57.:38:59.

reading out tweets, Mr Speaker, maybe will listen to this one. If

:39:00.:39:04.

the PM can casually drop something that was so central to his

:39:05.:39:09.

identity, he can drop anything. Hashtag green crap, that is this

:39:10.:39:15.

Prime Minister all over! The truth is that any action he takes on the

:39:16.:39:21.

cost of living prices is that he is being dragged there kicking and

:39:22.:39:24.

screaming. On the cost of living prices, he is not the solution, he

:39:25.:39:29.

is the problem. Nobody believes that he or his cabinet had any sense of

:39:30.:39:33.

the pressures facing the people of Britain! I think everyone can

:39:34.:39:39.

recognise a collapse when they see one, we just saw one right now!

:39:40.:39:44.

Isn't it interesting... Isn't it interesting, the week before the

:39:45.:39:48.

autumn statement, he cannot ask about the economy because it is

:39:49.:39:52.

growing? He cannot ask about the deficit because it is falling, he

:39:53.:39:55.

cannot ask about the numbers on work because they are rising. People can

:39:56.:40:00.

see that we have a long-term plan to turn our country around, and people

:40:01.:40:03.

can also see him sitting in his room, desperate for bad news to suit

:40:04.:40:06.

his own short-term political interests!

:40:07.:40:15.

Mr George Freeman! Mr Speaker, one in eight men will be diagnosed with

:40:16.:40:24.

prostate cancer, the silent killer of middle-aged men. Survival rates

:40:25.:40:29.

have risen to 80% because of improvements in science and

:40:30.:40:32.

charities which have gone from five blokes raising $500 to the world's

:40:33.:40:39.

biggest prostate charity. With the Prime Minister meet with me and

:40:40.:40:42.

representatives of UK research charities to help the UK innovate

:40:43.:40:45.

more quickly I think my honourable friend raises a very important

:40:46.:40:49.

issue, where everybody wants to see more research and better outcomes in

:40:50.:40:53.

terms of prostate cancer, and can I personally praise for that

:40:54.:40:57.

magnificent growth on his top lip? I have noticed a number of my

:40:58.:41:05.

colleagues suddenly resembling banditos and others on these

:41:06.:41:08.

benches, not something I am fully capable of myself, I am jealous on

:41:09.:41:12.

those grounds as well! But this is important, better diagnosis, better

:41:13.:41:16.

knowledge and information are all vital to beat prostate cancer. The

:41:17.:41:21.

Prime Minister one said he wanted to see rising living standards for

:41:22.:41:25.

all, not just rewards for those in high finance. Why, then, real wages

:41:26.:41:30.

down by over ?1600, while bank bonuses are up by 83%? That is

:41:31.:41:37.

happening because we are cutting taxes, disposable income went up

:41:38.:41:40.

last year, and what we have done is lit the first ?10,000 that people

:41:41.:41:47.

turn out of tax altogether. That is worth ?700 for every person who pays

:41:48.:41:51.

that tax. That is something he should be welcoming. In addition, we

:41:52.:41:56.

have frozen the council tax, cuts the petrol duty, and helped in all

:41:57.:42:01.

sorts of ways with family incomes. Every single step opposed by the

:42:02.:42:05.

party opposite. Mr Richard Fuller. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This

:42:06.:42:11.

foundation provides an lifting support for people living with

:42:12.:42:15.

dementia in Bedfordshire and for their carers. -- uplifting.

:42:16.:42:17.

Following his challenge on dementia last year and ahead of the G8 Summit

:42:18.:42:22.

that he will host in London next month, can my right honourable

:42:23.:42:24.

friend send a message to my constituents about his commitment to

:42:25.:42:28.

achieving real progress on dementia research and care? I am very

:42:29.:42:32.

grateful to my honourable friend for raising this issue. I think for too

:42:33.:42:35.

long in our country people thought of dementia as a natural part of

:42:36.:42:39.

ageing, rather than what it is, a disease that we should be fighting

:42:40.:42:43.

with all the energy that we are fighting heart disease and fighting

:42:44.:42:45.

cancer. As part of the dementia challenge, we will double research

:42:46.:42:50.

funding over the lifetime of this Government, from 26 million to up to

:42:51.:42:56.

66 million per year in 2014-15, but we also want to see an increase in

:42:57.:42:59.

diagnosis rates, because getting to grips with this early, and we want

:43:00.:43:04.

the rates to go to two thirds. I think is constituents will welcome

:43:05.:43:08.

those pledges. Through the G8 chairmanship, we can galvanise

:43:09.:43:11.

action around the world as well. Mr Speaker, REPORTER: Years the people

:43:12.:43:16.

of Scotland were promised they would receive a detailed and costed white

:43:17.:43:20.

paper to answer all their questions. Instead they got a thick document

:43:21.:43:24.

full of false promises. In the absence of detailed costings, it was

:43:25.:43:27.

not a blueprint for independence but a wish list. Given that the entire

:43:28.:43:31.

white paper is based on the assumption that Scotland would keep

:43:32.:43:35.

the pound as part of a sterling zone with no Plan B, can the Prime

:43:36.:43:40.

Minister tell us whether that lack of Plan B calls into question the

:43:41.:43:42.

entire credibility of the white paper? I very much agree with the

:43:43.:43:45.

honourable gentleman. We have been waiting a long time for this

:43:46.:43:50.

document. We were told it would answer every question, and yet no

:43:51.:43:56.

answer on the currency, no answer on the issue of EU membership, no

:43:57.:44:00.

proper answers one NATO. We were left with a huge set of questions,

:44:01.:44:05.

and for Scottish people, also the prospect of a ?1000 bill has the

:44:06.:44:10.

price of separation. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

:44:11.:44:15.

Thank you, Mr Speaker! We are celebrating a year after new owners

:44:16.:44:27.

of the former Pfizer site and with our commitment to small and

:44:28.:44:31.

medium-sized enterprises in Kent, we now have 1400 jobs and 60 companies.

:44:32.:44:38.

Would the Prime Minister agree with me that when the private sector

:44:39.:44:43.

needs a proactive government, we can replicate these sorts of successors

:44:44.:44:50.

around the country? Can I praise for the work she in. Clearly it was a

:44:51.:44:54.

blower Pfizer made their decision and I think many people thought it

:44:55.:44:59.

would be the end of that site in terms of jobs and investment but

:45:00.:45:02.

because of the hard work she is put in, and also my right honourable

:45:03.:45:06.

friend, the Business Secretary, and the science minister, a huge amount

:45:07.:45:10.

of work, the enterprise zone is working well, attracted over 20

:45:11.:45:15.

high-tech companies, and Pfizer is now staying with 500 jobs as well.

:45:16.:45:20.

It has been a success and shows if you work with the private sector,

:45:21.:45:23.

you can get good results like this. Andy McDonald. The disability

:45:24.:45:29.

benefits Consortium, over 50 charities have signed a letter to

:45:30.:45:31.

the Secretary of State calling for immediate action to exempt disabled

:45:32.:45:37.

people from the bedroom tax. Why on earth does he and his government

:45:38.:45:43.

refused to listen? What we have done is exempt disabled people who need

:45:44.:45:48.

an extra room but it does, I think, come back to a basic issue of

:45:49.:45:51.

fairness. And that basic issue with this. People in private sector

:45:52.:45:56.

rented accommodation who get housing benefit and don't get a subsidy for

:45:57.:46:00.

a spare room whereas people in council houses do get a subsidy for

:46:01.:46:04.

spare rooms and that's why I think it was right to end that, thinking

:46:05.:46:10.

of the 1.8 million people in our country on housing waiting lists. I

:46:11.:46:17.

wonder what the is to have a chance to watch any of the fantastic rugby

:46:18.:46:21.

league World Cup semifinal match which took place between England and

:46:22.:46:25.

New Zealand at the weekend? The tournament has been a great success

:46:26.:46:29.

and shortly rugby fans will have the Rugby union World Cup to look

:46:30.:46:33.

forward to in 2015 with games in England and Wales. Will he agree

:46:34.:46:39.

with me that the great interest in rugby presents an opportunity for my

:46:40.:46:43.

constituency to attract visitors to the birthplace of the game? I think

:46:44.:46:50.

he is absolutely right that it is the best possible advertisement for

:46:51.:46:54.

his time and I have done a public meeting in his high Street and know

:46:55.:46:59.

what a varied reception you can get in the town of rugby. It's hard to

:47:00.:47:04.

keep up with a quantity and quality of rugby union and rugby league

:47:05.:47:08.

games. I made a wager with a New Zealand Prime Minister I would wear

:47:09.:47:12.

a kiwi cuff link if they won in the rugby union match and they did so

:47:13.:47:16.

last week but fortunately, nobody noticed. The Prime Minister has

:47:17.:47:25.

vowed to fight for the UK with its head, heart and soul, but when it

:47:26.:47:30.

comes to a debate of guts, we now have a blueprint for independence.

:47:31.:47:35.

We know what his UK will look like. Will he now stop being pathetic and

:47:36.:47:42.

debate the issues with the first Minister? I'm enjoying the debate

:47:43.:47:46.

were having now, which is where it should take place. Of course, there

:47:47.:47:50.

should be a debate including televised debates, but this is a

:47:51.:47:55.

debate between people in Scotland. This is not a debate between the

:47:56.:47:59.

leader of the Conservative Party and the UK Prime Minister and the

:48:00.:48:02.

Scottish first Minister? It's a debate between the leader of the no

:48:03.:48:06.

campaign and the leader of the yes campaign. And they should fight it

:48:07.:48:10.

out on the facts. And on the issues. I know you want to find every

:48:11.:48:14.

destruction possible because when it comes the economy, jobs, Europe, all

:48:15.:48:19.

the arguments are for staying together. For future reference, you

:48:20.:48:26.

shouldn't be yelling at the Prime Minister like an overexcited puppy

:48:27.:48:33.

dog. It is unseemly. You can do a lot better if you try. Mary McLeod.

:48:34.:48:43.

Small businesses and traders, 40 million people employed in them, in

:48:44.:48:48.

Bradford and I is the web, 825 new business has been set up in the last

:48:49.:48:53.

two years. -- I saw worth. Will you join with me in encouraging

:48:54.:48:58.

businesses to become champions in all of our secondary schools to

:48:59.:49:02.

inspire another generation of entrepreneurs? First of all, the new

:49:03.:49:10.

businesses setting up in Britain, we do have 400,000 more businesses than

:49:11.:49:14.

three years ago, but the point she makes about encouraging businesses

:49:15.:49:18.

into schools to inspire young people about enterprise, about small

:49:19.:49:21.

business and what that can involve, I think it's really important and I

:49:22.:49:26.

would urge all MPs to make the most of small business Saturday and in

:49:27.:49:29.

the visits they make to primary schools and secondary schools to

:49:30.:49:32.

push the case for good business access and discussions. Four weeks

:49:33.:49:40.

ago in Eccles, I met a woman, 55 years old, a mother married to

:49:41.:49:45.

Tony. For the last four years, Joyce had problems in their memory and on

:49:46.:49:48.

her 55th birthday she was diagnosed with onset dementia. Her family are

:49:49.:49:53.

devastated but his inspirational woman and now fighting for better

:49:54.:49:56.

services for people in similar circumstances. Will he ensure at the

:49:57.:50:02.

G8, in London in two weeks time, there is a real plus for increase in

:50:03.:50:07.

research and quality of care and support and prevention as well as

:50:08.:50:13.

the important search for a cure? She's absolutely right. There was no

:50:14.:50:17.

one single thing we have to do. The research budget is going up but we

:50:18.:50:20.

also need to work within the health and social care sector to improve

:50:21.:50:24.

standards but frankly, we also need to make our communities more

:50:25.:50:27.

dementia friendly and something all of us can do is actually to become a

:50:28.:50:32.

dementia friend, a simple relatively short test, and that of learning,

:50:33.:50:36.

about how to help people in our communities with dementia. It's when

:50:37.:50:42.

people are trying to go on a bus, or access their bank account, or go to

:50:43.:50:45.

the post office, how they live their lives with something we can all make

:50:46.:50:54.

a difference too. Last Friday, on the border between Gibraltar in

:50:55.:51:01.

Spain, one about the dramatic pouches was opened, clear breach of

:51:02.:51:06.

our sovereignty, -- diplomatic pouches. I ask what further

:51:07.:51:10.

measures, political and indeed any other measures we can take towards

:51:11.:51:17.

Spain, to stop this harassment of our people in Gibraltar? First of

:51:18.:51:23.

all, he is right to raise this because it is a breach of the

:51:24.:51:27.

principle of state immunity and the principles underlying in the Vienna

:51:28.:51:30.

Convention on diplomatic conventions. It's a serious action

:51:31.:51:35.

which took place. We asked the Spanish authorities to investigate

:51:36.:51:38.

and they have done that and we are perceived and expiration. We are

:51:39.:51:41.

reassured this will not happen again but that me be absolutely clear, we

:51:42.:51:45.

will always stand up for the rights of people in Gibraltar and for the

:51:46.:51:51.

sovereignty of Gibraltar. Earlier the Primus tag line for the

:51:52.:51:54.

government is doing in relation to fuel poverty in the winter. -- the

:51:55.:51:59.

Prime Minister. Outlined. The further north, incomes are lower,

:52:00.:52:04.

the Colbert is, and fuel prices are higher. What additional measures can

:52:05.:52:10.

he take to ensure the alleviates the problems suffered by people in

:52:11.:52:14.

Northern Ireland? I do think the cold weather payments are perhaps

:52:15.:52:17.

the key thing because they are triggered I load temperatures and

:52:18.:52:21.

they kick in at ?25 a week, which makes the biggest difference. The

:52:22.:52:28.

warm homes discovered, the energy companies themselves are putting in

:52:29.:52:32.

place to help tackle fuel poverty. The measures under the last

:52:33.:52:36.

government, fuel poverty is lower today than it was when the party

:52:37.:52:43.

opposite was in office. It is my right honourable friend aware of the

:52:44.:52:48.

concern in Suffolk about using a road toll to pay for improvements to

:52:49.:52:54.

be a 14? And the consequent risk but introducing tolls on the roads may

:52:55.:53:00.

undermine support for the sensible concept of road pricing? I am well

:53:01.:53:06.

aware of the strong feelings about this issue and had been approached

:53:07.:53:10.

by many MPs but I believe that road tolls can play an important part in

:53:11.:53:15.

providing new road capacity. It's important we find way to praise for

:53:16.:53:19.

road capacity, but I understand the concerns about this individual case.

:53:20.:53:25.

Does he realise he has something in common with the SNP? While he

:53:26.:53:31.

refuses to back a call on a freeze on energy bills, they were not there

:53:32.:53:39.

to grips with the energy companies, what does he think this says to the

:53:40.:53:46.

millions of Scottish people? Getting to grips with energy bills means

:53:47.:53:48.

more competition in the market which we are delivering. We were left the

:53:49.:53:54.

big six by the party opposite and we see new companies coming in and

:53:55.:53:58.

people like the leader of the opposition sensibly deciding to

:53:59.:54:04.

switch their energy supply, good or very principle. We need to go back

:54:05.:54:07.

the costs of the levies, and we're looking at that, as well. The Prime

:54:08.:54:12.

Minister will be aware that MPs from rural areas across party lines have,

:54:13.:54:17.

for many years, campaigned for a fair funding formula for schools.

:54:18.:54:23.

Ably led by David kidney, the former Labour MP, and by the Honourable

:54:24.:54:27.

member for Buster, the issue has been brought to a head again and we

:54:28.:54:31.

have been expected to expect news shortly. Can't reassure teachers

:54:32.:54:41.

they won't be disappointed? I do understand the concerns because

:54:42.:54:44.

these funding formulas are built up over many years and there are places

:54:45.:54:48.

in the country which do feel disadvantaged, particularly in rural

:54:49.:54:52.

areas, who can suffer exclusion and poverty and feel there is not proper

:54:53.:54:58.

reflection in the funding formula. The Education Secretary will see

:54:59.:55:07.

what he can do. In my constituency, the engine room of the economy is S

:55:08.:55:11.

M Es full sub while business rates rising by an average ability of

:55:12.:55:21.

thousand pounds in this Parliament? Really are extending the freezer

:55:22.:55:26.

business rates that the last government was going to get rid of

:55:27.:55:30.

that we are extending the freeze on business rates for the last

:55:31.:55:34.

government is going to get the dog. --.

:55:35.:55:37.

we are on the subject of how to help business. How on earth can it be a

:55:38.:55:55.

good idea to say you want to increase corporation tax as you go

:55:56.:55:58.

into the next Parliament? That seems, to me, absolutely mad in

:55:59.:56:08.

terms of a new Labour jobs tax. By the end of this year, over 8000

:56:09.:56:13.

people in our country would have been diagnosed with pancreatic

:56:14.:56:18.

cancer. Only 4% will even have the chance of a five-year survival

:56:19.:56:21.

rate. And these figures have not changed for the last 30 years. When

:56:22.:56:26.

the Prime Minister join the all-party group and pancreatic

:56:27.:56:33.

cancer UK to improve these dreadful outcomes? There is always an issue

:56:34.:56:40.

raised by those charities who are campaigning on some of the less

:56:41.:56:45.

well-known and less prevalent cancers that they don't get a fair

:56:46.:56:48.

share of the research funding. It's an issue I had taken up by the

:56:49.:56:52.

Health Secretary and I think we need to make sure we are spreading

:56:53.:56:56.

research funding and the work we do into cancer fairly across different

:56:57.:57:01.

disciplines and cancers. Could I repeat, energy companies are making

:57:02.:57:16.

77% profits per customer in 2012. Does the Prime Minister agree that

:57:17.:57:21.

this is unacceptable? And, if so, what immediate steps is he proposing

:57:22.:57:26.

to take to protect customers from blatant profiteering? What we need

:57:27.:57:32.

to do is create a more competitive energy market. We inherited a

:57:33.:57:36.

situation with just six big companies, we have seen seven new

:57:37.:57:41.

companies coming to the market, and the number of people with

:57:42.:57:44.

independent suppliers like the leader of the opposition, has

:57:45.:57:50.

doubled during this Parliament, so we're making progress. I always

:57:51.:57:53.

follow up the Honourable gentleman says, because recently gave an

:57:54.:57:56.

interview when he went on the radio and said about Labour 's policies,

:57:57.:58:00.

and said, I don't know our position on welfare, education, how we would

:58:01.:58:06.

run the NHS. I think? That would be a good thing. -- I think a question

:58:07.:58:15.

on that would be a good thing. What lessons has he learned from the

:58:16.:58:18.

failures of the last Labour government which, despite claiming

:58:19.:58:23.

just 13,000 immigrants will arrive in the UK, deliberately allowed more

:58:24.:58:27.

than 1 million to come into our country? I think he raises an

:58:28.:58:33.

important point because of course the benefits within the EU of free

:58:34.:58:36.

movement, but there should be proper transition controls. We increase the

:58:37.:58:41.

transition controls on Bulgaria and the mania from five years to seven

:58:42.:58:44.

years, when we became the government, but it still baffles me

:58:45.:58:49.

why the last Labour government decided to have no transitional

:58:50.:58:54.

controller told for the a predicted 14,000 Polish people would arrive to

:58:55.:59:00.

work in Britain but it was over 700,000. It is a shameful direction

:59:01.:59:07.

of duty. The Prime Minister will be aware that the Mayor of London,

:59:08.:59:13.

Boris Johnson, proposes to close nearly every single ticket office on

:59:14.:59:18.

the London Underground network. With over 700 jobs being lost. Does the

:59:19.:59:26.

Prime Minister believe that that is the way to raise living standards

:59:27.:59:31.

for ordinary Londoners? The best way to happen Londoners is to make sure

:59:32.:59:34.

we have a safe and affordable tube station and use modern technology to

:59:35.:59:39.

deliver that. I think the conversation the Honourable Lady

:59:40.:59:42.

needs to have is with the trade union would have done so much damage

:59:43.:59:45.

to our underground, and we ought to be having on our underground,

:59:46.:59:50.

permanent systems which provide a good service. Mr Speaker, earlier

:59:51.:00:00.

this week, in Brighton, I was tested for HIV. This Sunday, it was world

:00:01.:00:05.

AIDS Day. With the Prime Minister agree that in view of the fact in

:00:06.:00:08.

this country, one in five people with HIV don't know they have it,

:00:09.:00:15.

regular testing is to be in courage? I absolutely pay tribute to my

:00:16.:00:18.

honourable friend and to all Honourable friends around this House

:00:19.:00:23.

and in politics who campaigned so persistently and consistently on

:00:24.:00:25.

this issue. It's vitally important we improve the livelihoods of people

:00:26.:00:30.

with HIV and AIDS in the UK, but also vital we go on working

:00:31.:00:34.

internationally including through the aid budget, to tackle HIV and

:00:35.:00:38.

AIDS around the world but I think we can be proud of the money we have

:00:39.:00:41.

put into things like the global fund and the fact, in this country, we

:00:42.:00:45.

have achieved not .7% of gross national income when other countries

:00:46.:00:52.

are broken promises. He's very keen to encourage energy users to switch

:00:53.:00:57.

energy providers to get the best tariff. Why is it so difficult, over

:00:58.:01:00.

the last three years, for mobile phone providers to be able to

:01:01.:01:04.

switch? I think right across these utilities we want to see it made

:01:05.:01:10.

easier for people to switch full sub we have done that on banks and is

:01:11.:01:13.

now easier to switch bank account because of the hard work of a

:01:14.:01:16.

Chancellor of the Exchequer. It's now easier to switch energy. Because

:01:17.:01:20.

of the excellent work of climate change secretary. But it also be

:01:21.:01:25.

easier to switch on other utilities, so it is an important bit of work we

:01:26.:01:30.

are doing. The number of apprenticeships in Cornwall has

:01:31.:01:35.

doubled since 2010. It helps to create a stronger economy and a

:01:36.:01:39.

fairer society. Will he meet with me and a delegation of young people

:01:40.:01:42.

from Cornwall to see how we can further promote these worthwhile

:01:43.:01:46.

schemes? I am delighted with the news from Cornwall about the number

:01:47.:01:49.

of apprenticeships. It's been a major financial commitment to help

:01:50.:01:53.

fund apprenticeships. It's making a real difference but we have lots to

:01:54.:01:59.

do to tackle worthlessness and unemployment for people between the

:02:00.:02:02.

ages of 16 and 24 for the always happy to meet with him when I'm in

:02:03.:02:11.

Cornwall. House prices are going up. At a time when real wages are coming

:02:12.:02:16.

down. Does the Prime Minister accept that when interest rates go up,

:02:17.:02:19.

after the election, this will detonate a sub-prime debt crisis of

:02:20.:02:26.

his making? The greatest danger in terms of interest rate is if we had

:02:27.:02:29.

a government that believed in more borrowing, more spending and more

:02:30.:02:34.

taxes. That is what would drive up interest rates, that is what would

:02:35.:02:37.

head the cost of living, and that is what every family in this country

:02:38.:02:39.

should dread. Order. That's the end of primers as

:02:40.:02:48.

questions. The first exchange between them were on payday loans.

:02:49.:02:55.

And regulations to cap them in various ways.

:02:56.:03:07.

Mr Cameron said that the opposition had decided not to do it in power,

:03:08.:03:14.

they both have the same policy, not an unrewarding exchange between the

:03:15.:03:18.

two. They then got onto the issue of the number of people who died last

:03:19.:03:22.

winter because of the cold, and the fears of the number that will this

:03:23.:03:26.

year, that will happen this year, and that brought us onto energy

:03:27.:03:30.

prices and the usual exchanges about whether there should be a freeze or

:03:31.:03:34.

not and what was the answer to rising energy prices. We may talk

:03:35.:03:37.

about that in a moment. And the other thing of note, what I think

:03:38.:03:43.

was generally pretty in distinguished exchange, Diane Abbott

:03:44.:03:48.

asking a question about London and about the London Underground, which

:03:49.:03:53.

those of us in the studio take to be the launch of her mayoral campaign.

:03:54.:04:00.

We know these things! We don't, really. Half the backbenchers want

:04:01.:04:06.

to go for that job! Diane from Cornwall said, a good week for Ed

:04:07.:04:11.

Miliband who adroitly linked payday lenders to energy costs and the fear

:04:12.:04:14.

of cold weather deaths and NHS backlogs. Jim brought in from

:04:15.:04:20.

Nuneaton said, David Cameron summed the situation up nicely at the end

:04:21.:04:24.

of his exchange with Ed Miliband, desperately searching for bad news

:04:25.:04:28.

on which to score political points. But this is from Bernard Whitaker,

:04:29.:04:32.

Newcastle upon Tyne, can run all over the place and payday loans, he

:04:33.:04:36.

struggles on electricity. -- Cameron. Alan Waugh would, a very

:04:37.:04:43.

interesting point, is Tory ideology becoming inconsistent under David

:04:44.:04:47.

Cameron? Interventionist tendencies. From John Smith, nothing

:04:48.:04:51.

from Labour on the economy, the thing that troubles the majority of

:04:52.:04:57.

hard-working folk. The reason MPs or a number of them were wearing red

:04:58.:05:02.

ribbons is as a sign for international AIDS day, which is

:05:03.:05:07.

this Sunday, and there was a question about AIDS testing in the

:05:08.:05:12.

exchanges there. Immigration did not come up, interesting thing is that

:05:13.:05:17.

the issue that regularly comes top of the polls after the economy is an

:05:18.:05:22.

issue about immigration, but the mother of Parliaments does not talk

:05:23.:05:27.

about it on the one bit that is broadcast on network television. You

:05:28.:05:30.

said Ed Miliband would not raise it, I think we all agreed, in that it

:05:31.:05:35.

would have been an opportunity to do what David Cameron briefly did at

:05:36.:05:39.

the end, when a Tory backbencher raised it. The Prime Minister was

:05:40.:05:43.

then able to say Labour got it wrong in 2004, the lack of transitional

:05:44.:05:46.

controls to prevent so many polls and other Eastern European is coming

:05:47.:05:52.

over. But that is is chosen topic of the day, this climb-down.

:05:53.:05:57.

Interestingly, while we have been on air, the EU commission have been

:05:58.:06:03.

reacting. We heard earlier one EU commission speaking on the Today

:06:04.:06:07.

programme, very critical of David Cameron's article in the Financial

:06:08.:06:11.

Times, and now a justice commissioner has said it is

:06:12.:06:13.

non-negotiable for member states, the issue of freedom of movement,

:06:14.:06:18.

and went on to say, a woman called Vivian Reading, that Britain had

:06:19.:06:22.

always been in favour of enlarging the EU and now politicians seem

:06:23.:06:28.

unhappy with it. What is striking on these benefits tightening up is that

:06:29.:06:31.

the Liberal Democrats wanted it to be known that they had accepted

:06:32.:06:34.

them, not just as it were acquiesced, but that they were in

:06:35.:06:39.

favour, and the Labour Party's only criticism was that they recommended

:06:40.:06:43.

tightening up earlier. So there is now a cross-party consensus about

:06:44.:06:47.

the need to tighten up benefit controls. You only have to look at

:06:48.:06:50.

the opinion polls that were all over the front pages the other day, the

:06:51.:06:54.

Daily Mail, to know why. It is not just the top issue regularly, but

:06:55.:06:59.

people's concern about the influx of EU migrants, you are talking about

:07:00.:07:03.

very high numbers in the opinion polls. So UKIP calling the shots

:07:04.:07:12.

again. But is it UKIP? You could say that UKIP is breathing down their

:07:13.:07:15.

necks ahead of the European elections, the last set of migration

:07:16.:07:19.

statistics were not good for the Government, so they may be trying to

:07:20.:07:23.

get in pre-emptively. We know this 1st of January deadline looms, the

:07:24.:07:26.

point at which Romanians and Bulgarians can, if they choose, come

:07:27.:07:30.

and work freely, there are plenty here already, of course, working

:07:31.:07:34.

self-employed or on special work permits. But there is also coming up

:07:35.:07:40.

in Parliament a Tory backbench rebellion on this issue of Romania

:07:41.:07:44.

and Bulgaria. There are all sorts of political reasons. Partly because

:07:45.:07:49.

they are worried about UKIP. If all three age of parties are now

:07:50.:07:52.

effectively saying the same thing, the only party that has got a

:07:53.:07:55.

different story, tougher than all three of them, is UKIP. That is

:07:56.:08:01.

true. The reason I cavil with you slightly... Did you?! If UKIP did

:08:02.:08:08.

not exist, the fact that the predictions were for 14,000 polls to

:08:09.:08:12.

come per year and the total over ten years was more than 700,000, that

:08:13.:08:17.

would have created a climate of public anxiety, whether UKIP were

:08:18.:08:21.

there ten. They have not created it, they have served the wave of

:08:22.:08:26.

anxiety. I accept your cavil, I will then go up and see it means! Let's

:08:27.:08:32.

come back to the issue of energy prices, at a time when we know that

:08:33.:08:37.

more old people dying because of cold, as they did last winter, the

:08:38.:08:42.

need to, and that there is a fear of whether that will happen again,

:08:43.:08:45.

given that energy prices have gone way ahead of any possible income

:08:46.:08:50.

increased that old people have had, is it not really embarrassing that,

:08:51.:08:57.

at the same time, the energy can show a 75% increase in profits? Of

:08:58.:09:03.

course it is an embarrassing thing for them, and it is obviously

:09:04.:09:05.

something that we have really got to deal with what we are doing, and the

:09:06.:09:12.

thing that I suppose I admire the nerve of Ed Miliband was to put

:09:13.:09:17.

legislation in place which rapidly increased the prices, the green

:09:18.:09:20.

levies, and now he is saying, he would want to freeze prices. What we

:09:21.:09:26.

have got to do is remove what Government can genuinely do, and

:09:27.:09:29.

that will be looking at the green levies, looking at what we can do

:09:30.:09:33.

there, bringing the prices down. We have to do that, it has to be

:09:34.:09:36.

affordable for the people on the ground. The green levies are one

:09:37.:09:41.

issue, you both have always sung from the same song sheet, Labour and

:09:42.:09:47.

conservative. But they did introduce a more, you are quite right. But

:09:48.:09:50.

there is an additional problem, because the green levies do not

:09:51.:09:55.

extend to profits. If they have got 75% increase in profits, there is

:09:56.:09:59.

something systemically wrong with the market, and yet you have been in

:10:00.:10:02.

power for over three and a half years now, and I see no changes that

:10:03.:10:10.

you have made to the energy market. You are quite right. We have got to

:10:11.:10:13.

make sure the markets work. We believe any market, and we have to

:10:14.:10:17.

make sure they are going to work. That is why David Cameron has said

:10:18.:10:20.

we are bringing more people into the marketplace, and we are going to do

:10:21.:10:25.

it within a time frame. Yes, this is something we have to accelerate. The

:10:26.:10:29.

Autumn Statement coming up next week, it is almost certain, I think,

:10:30.:10:34.

talking about this, that there will be movement on the green levies.

:10:35.:10:38.

Some of them will be scrapped or diminished or put onto general

:10:39.:10:43.

taxation. We'll Labour supports that? I don't know, we need to look

:10:44.:10:48.

at their proposals. You are responsible for a lot of the green

:10:49.:10:52.

levies. The current government introduced more of the green levy

:10:53.:10:56.

cost than the last Labour government. You did introduce a lot.

:10:57.:11:01.

In order to try and encourage, incentivise renewables... They

:11:02.:11:06.

account for 10% of the bill. But I mean, I want to make this point, Mr

:11:07.:11:11.

Miliband talks about the need for a price freeze, yet the 2008 climate

:11:12.:11:15.

change act, for which she was responsible, had a specific

:11:16.:11:21.

intention of raising energy prices. That was the specific intention,

:11:22.:11:25.

because it put a lot of money into onshore wind, which was twice the

:11:26.:11:30.

normal price of electricity, and offshore wind, which is three times

:11:31.:11:35.

that, and solar power as well. Now, the intention was to do it, so now

:11:36.:11:40.

to call for a price freeze on it seems either inconsistent or

:11:41.:11:44.

hypocritical or both. No, the intention was to try to deal with

:11:45.:11:48.

the prospect of climate change by getting the energy companies to take

:11:49.:11:52.

greater responsibility for paying for developing the next generation

:11:53.:11:55.

of carbon neutral and carbon free energy. Which are more expensive.

:11:56.:12:02.

You are entirely right that it is not down to the energy levies, it is

:12:03.:12:05.

not down to the green levies. It is to do with the fact that you have

:12:06.:12:09.

vertically integrated energy companies, who both generate,

:12:10.:12:15.

transmit and sell to consumers. Which you created. The last Tory

:12:16.:12:19.

government is what privatised energy in this country. Not a Mac, we are

:12:20.:12:26.

going historic now! You allowed them to be integrated. Tell us a bit more

:12:27.:12:33.

about... We need to freeze the bills because people... We know that is

:12:34.:12:38.

Labour policy, we have covered the freeze quite a lot on this

:12:39.:12:42.

programme. You will be with me for the Autumn Statement next Thursday,

:12:43.:12:45.

it has been delayed a day. Any hints you can do? We know these green

:12:46.:12:51.

levies are going to be shifted in some way. It may turn out to be

:12:52.:12:54.

complex. It would be interesting to see whether he wants to announce it

:12:55.:12:58.

on his big day or get it out of the way so that it is not all that

:12:59.:13:01.

anybody talks about, that is one thing that is worth watching for.

:13:02.:13:05.

But he has got to raise some money to pay for the goodies promised by

:13:06.:13:09.

both the Liberal Democrats and the Tories at their party conferences.

:13:10.:13:14.

One brief thoughts on price? The Treasury always looks for pain-free

:13:15.:13:17.

ways of putting taxes up, that is why there was the fuel duty

:13:18.:13:20.

escalator, remember that? Marvellous, we can put money on

:13:21.:13:24.

petrol, nobody will mind, but then of course people do mind. After the

:13:25.:13:29.

protest it never went up again. Or let's put it on energy bills, they

:13:30.:13:33.

will not mind, that is green. What we discover is that civil servants

:13:34.:13:36.

come up with ways to put bills up painlessly, and politicians

:13:37.:13:41.

discover, actually, people find it quite painful. And when they all

:13:42.:13:44.

agree, it is incumbent on us to look harder at the issues. Which is why

:13:45.:13:51.

you have got journalists here. Well done! Toady! I'm going to give him a

:13:52.:13:59.

fiver afterwards. Going back to a story we covered earlier, the

:14:00.:14:02.

announcement that David Cameron will restrict benefits for out of work EU

:14:03.:14:05.

migrants, attempting to limit numbers coming year in the future

:14:06.:14:10.

just five weeks before restrictions relaxed on Bulgarians and Romanians

:14:11.:14:13.

coming to the UK to live and work. Speaking earlier on the BBC, Alp

:14:14.:14:18.

Mehmet from Migration Watch UK is that Mr Cameron is just doing what

:14:19.:14:21.

everyone else in Europe would like to do. He suggests that we are the

:14:22.:14:27.

nasty country or likely to be labelled as a nasty country. Is he

:14:28.:14:30.

saying that to the Germans, I wonder, who have some other

:14:31.:14:34.

concerns? Or the French, who have already acted? Or any of the other

:14:35.:14:39.

countries? In Dade, does he say that to the Romanians and Bulgarians that

:14:40.:14:42.

I talked to say, you are mad for opening up in this way? -- indeed. I

:14:43.:14:47.

welcome what the Prime Minister is proposing for I believe he is

:14:48.:14:51.

proposing. We do need to tighten the benefits system, we cannot have

:14:52.:14:56.

uncontrolled access to the labour market in this way. It was never

:14:57.:15:00.

intended for that purpose. It was never intended for countries that

:15:01.:15:05.

are so far and bounced from the sort of countries that Romania and

:15:06.:15:09.

Bulgaria are at the moment. Joining us is the Bulgarian Ambassador

:15:10.:15:15.

Konstantin Dimitrov. Welcome to the Daily Politics. What is your

:15:16.:15:18.

reaction to David Cameron's financial Times article in which

:15:19.:15:21.

each attempts to limit welfare benefit in a number of ways to

:15:22.:15:28.

migrants? I think it's an expected political announcement in the form

:15:29.:15:33.

of an article. It is to be read very carefully, to be studied, to be

:15:34.:15:38.

consulted back in my capital. It is, which is very important to us, and

:15:39.:15:41.

indirect confirmation that the UK Government will lift the remaining

:15:42.:15:49.

restrictions to access to the labour market for Bulgarians and Romanians,

:15:50.:15:53.

levelling them up with the rest of the citizens of the European Union.

:15:54.:16:00.

And I had confirmation from the Foreign Office that this is indeed

:16:01.:16:05.

the message among the Alliance of the article in question. So there is

:16:06.:16:10.

no doubt in your mind that the final restrictions on Bulgarians and

:16:11.:16:15.

Romanians will be lifted in January? That they will have the same rights

:16:16.:16:18.

of movement across European borders as the rest of the EU? May I make an

:16:19.:16:24.

important decision, the right of movement is there but the right to

:16:25.:16:30.

work legally was subject to some administrative restrictions which

:16:31.:16:36.

will go. They will go, and it's a different subject altogether, the

:16:37.:16:38.

issue of the access to your social welfare system. I understand that. I

:16:39.:16:44.

would like to have a triple distinction in this amalgam of

:16:45.:16:58.

notions. Let me ask you this. Are you broadly sympathetic to the

:16:59.:17:02.

tightening up of welfare benefits for EU migrants? In principle, we

:17:03.:17:07.

stick to the view that those who have access to benefits should have

:17:08.:17:13.

contributed to the gross domestic product of each nation where the

:17:14.:17:19.

National 's work. However, there are two conditions attached to it. One

:17:20.:17:24.

of them if they should be a non-discriminatory attitude to

:17:25.:17:28.

specific citizens from a specific country in the EU, and indeed, all

:17:29.:17:33.

national legislative measures should be in full compliance with

:17:34.:17:40.

applicants in EU legislation. Is it the case, as I think I have seen you

:17:41.:17:47.

have said, that noble dairy 's who have applied to come and work here

:17:48.:17:53.

have been turned down anyway? -- no Bulgarians. Those who have provided

:17:54.:18:00.

the necessary documents have been granted to work here in the specific

:18:01.:18:04.

category to which they belong, in other words, there hasn't been a

:18:05.:18:10.

trend of the number of workers so far because it is contrary to the

:18:11.:18:15.

new legislation, so, in other words, the 1st of January, once the

:18:16.:18:19.

floodgates opened, the access to your labour market, you will see a

:18:20.:18:24.

situation of access through work permits towards the situation of

:18:25.:18:31.

finding work without the permit characteristic for the transitional

:18:32.:18:38.

periods. Are you saying we will not see the floodgates opening? We will

:18:39.:18:42.

not see a sudden rush of large numbers of Bulgarians and Romanians

:18:43.:18:47.

coming to work in this country? We are not crystal ball gazers but the

:18:48.:18:51.

analysis suggests that because of the factors I explained below, the

:18:52.:18:59.

easy access to your labour market for legally working Bulgarians

:19:00.:19:02.

before the 1st of January, we don't see any objective be requisite for a

:19:03.:19:09.

rising coming of our complete clearance. Moreover, there is a

:19:10.:19:13.

large-scale information campaign of the existing restrictions to the

:19:14.:19:18.

access of your social welfare system and indeed, the need for people to

:19:19.:19:22.

be absolutely immaculate in terms of the documents they will have to have

:19:23.:19:28.

two even applied for work here in the period after the New Year

:19:29.:19:33.

coming. The gap in living standards in GDP between Bulgaria, Romania and

:19:34.:19:40.

the western part of the EU, France, Germany, the UK, it is large. That

:19:41.:19:49.

is true. Are you not worried, as movement for jobs becomes friction

:19:50.:19:54.

free, that you lose a lot of your best and brightest? We are very

:19:55.:19:59.

worried and if I have to be very honest with you, it is a problem of

:20:00.:20:04.

a brain drain for Bulgaria, much more than the influx of the best

:20:05.:20:09.

qualified nurses and doctors, entrepreneurs or financiers into

:20:10.:20:13.

your country. I can understand why that is a worry. Do you think

:20:14.:20:20.

Britain is becoming a nasty country in its attitude towards this? I

:20:21.:20:25.

don't think so but there was a nasty anti-bug Aryan campaign from certain

:20:26.:20:30.

politicians and certain media which I will not name. -- antibody Aryan.

:20:31.:20:43.

Go on. -- anti-Bulgarian. I am too much of an ambassador. Now, have all

:20:44.:20:52.

you Borgen fans caught up on last weekend's episodes? We are obsessed

:20:53.:20:57.

on this programme. If you have you'll know that Brigitte Nyborg's

:20:58.:21:00.

new party makes a break through in the Danish Parliament after her MPs

:21:01.:21:03.

tackle the contentious issue of Danish pork and animal welfare

:21:04.:21:06.

standards. Put your hands over your ears. Well, believe it or not, that

:21:07.:21:10.

issue is also very topical here because a number of celebrity chefs

:21:11.:21:13.

have joined forces to try and change what we feed our pigs. Here's

:21:14.:21:16.

Thomasina Miers, winner of MasterChef and co-founder of the

:21:17.:21:18.

Wahaca restaurant chain with her soapbox.

:21:19.:21:30.

For 9000 years of humans have lived alongside domestic pigs, they have

:21:31.:21:35.

been the perfect partner for consuming wasted humans produce and

:21:36.:21:44.

converting it into calories and pork roast to eat, but that changed a

:21:45.:21:49.

decade ago. After the outbreak of foot and mouth disease and its

:21:50.:21:52.

devastating consequences for British livestock in 2001, politicians and

:21:53.:21:57.

-- introduced a ban on feeding catering waste on pegs without

:21:58.:22:04.

considering the impact. The ban them became permanent across the EU. We

:22:05.:22:08.

now have a crazy system with pegs are being fed food humans could eat

:22:09.:22:13.

and much of it is Sawyer, where rainforests are being cut down at an

:22:14.:22:19.

alarming rate. -- soy. It is used for animal feed and Europe now

:22:20.:22:24.

produces 40 million tonnes a year which is not sustainable. Many pig

:22:25.:22:29.

farmers are now going out of business because of the expensive

:22:30.:22:33.

price of grain when I have a ready-made food source in the form

:22:34.:22:37.

of food waste for their livestock, a significant portion of farmers now

:22:38.:22:40.

want to feed their livestock pigs will. The UK is also out of step

:22:41.:22:45.

with the rest of the world. The government of other countries like

:22:46.:22:50.

Japan, South Korea, New Zealand, China and many states in America but

:22:51.:22:53.

organise the best way of telling food waste into a valuable resource

:22:54.:22:57.

is to feed it to livestock. Inside are banning the practice, the

:22:58.:23:01.

Japanese support pig farmers who want to use food waste as feed.

:23:02.:23:06.

Eco-pork is sold on the same supermarket shelves where the waste

:23:07.:23:13.

originated. Working in restaurants can we separate food waste into food

:23:14.:23:16.

bins to avoid cross contamination, and easy solution. Recycling food

:23:17.:23:22.

waste into livestock feed is also a print way of increasing Europe's

:23:23.:23:27.

food security for the future. And Thomasina Miers joins us now.

:23:28.:23:33.

Welcome to the programme. It didn't work last time because there was

:23:34.:23:37.

that cross contamination. What makes you think it will be different now?

:23:38.:23:42.

Last time, you talk by the single incident of foot and mouth which had

:23:43.:23:45.

devastating consequences, so a temporary ban was put on the pigs

:23:46.:23:49.

will industry which sadly spread across the EU and is now

:23:50.:23:53.

semipermanent. That's what we're trying to change for the in New

:23:54.:23:57.

Zealand, China, America, South Korea, Japan, they have a very good

:23:58.:24:01.

swill system for the day take the catering waste, cook it to a certain

:24:02.:24:09.

level, which safely killed pathogens including foot and mouth, and make

:24:10.:24:14.

it two double foot of in the UK, we are throwing out 15 million tonnes

:24:15.:24:18.

of food waste a year, just in the UK. If you took a globally the food

:24:19.:24:22.

waste your chucking out and fed it to animals, you would be liberating

:24:23.:24:27.

enough grain to feed 3 billion people. You said it had devastating

:24:28.:24:35.

consequences, that one incident. How do you reassure people that that

:24:36.:24:38.

incident wouldn't be repeated? There are several things to do. If you

:24:39.:24:45.

listen to our detractors, they are highlighting a lethal outbreak of

:24:46.:24:47.

foot and mouth disease again but foot and mouth is already out

:24:48.:24:51.

there, it's everywhere, it's a question of controlling it. Proper

:24:52.:24:54.

investigations were not done at the time. It was a remiss farmer who

:24:55.:25:00.

wasn't doing the correct heat treating. It was one farmer. We're

:25:01.:25:05.

talking about factories, having proper regulations, like the food we

:25:06.:25:11.

eat is pasteurised and cooked. It wasn't necessarily downed that

:25:12.:25:15.

farmer treating outbreak. The type of foot and mouth was similar to one

:25:16.:25:22.

in South Africa the year before. Proper investigations were not done

:25:23.:25:26.

so it absolutely not sure it was foot and mouth. You've obviously

:25:27.:25:31.

thought about it carefully, thought that what happened in the past. Have

:25:32.:25:35.

you had any response from the EU or government? They passed a blanket

:25:36.:25:41.

ban. We are trying to engage the subject of politicians because,

:25:42.:25:44.

apart from anything else, the health scares of what we're doing at the

:25:45.:25:48.

moment, are really scary, so 50 million tonnes of food waste are put

:25:49.:25:51.

into landfill, which is completely untreated for the rodents, rats,

:25:52.:25:58.

Vernons -- seagulls are scavenging on it. I can see the sense of the

:25:59.:26:06.

argument. What we got to do is have consumer confidence there. People

:26:07.:26:10.

are fearful of there being another food scare. I think that's what we

:26:11.:26:16.

have got to do, allay peoples fears, explain clearly, as you are doing

:26:17.:26:23.

very coherently. And putting regulation in place to ensure it

:26:24.:26:26.

couldn't have this contamination gainful we look at the human food,

:26:27.:26:31.

look after pig food. I say, start lobbying your local MPs. Would you

:26:32.:26:37.

support it? I think, when you hear him make the arguments, they sound

:26:38.:26:44.

plausible. I only read about it last week. What is striking is so minute

:26:45.:26:49.

of the interested parties, pig producers, veterinarians, so opposed

:26:50.:26:53.

to it, and the reason they are opposed to it is they think we don't

:26:54.:26:56.

have the structures in place, the treatment plants, the means to

:26:57.:27:03.

separate out the waste to guarantee you weren't feeding pigs to pigs.

:27:04.:27:10.

You can feed animals to animals, only chickens and pigs but not to

:27:11.:27:18.

beef. It looks like it ought to be interesting. The sustainability

:27:19.:27:22.

issues you raise are very important. I think we need to be

:27:23.:27:26.

very, very clear that we could do something like this safely, because

:27:27.:27:31.

the downside is enormous. You can understand it in a way. I understand

:27:32.:27:37.

it as a mother of two children, as someone who has been friends of

:27:38.:27:41.

farmers who lost livestock. It was horrific, foot and mouth for the it

:27:42.:27:45.

wasn't proven it was caused by the swill industry, number one. It

:27:46.:27:49.

happens across the world safely. America, New Zealand, Japan. If they

:27:50.:27:53.

can do it, why can't we? The third thing is, what is the third thing?

:27:54.:27:59.

Don't worry. It's always terrible things first, second and third.

:28:00.:28:04.

Maybe the farmers are the ones who have to convince Festival. Convince

:28:05.:28:10.

them and create a new economy. -- convince farmers. OK, we have run

:28:11.:28:18.

out of time. Now, it's time to put you out of your misery and give you

:28:19.:28:24.

the answer to Guess The Year. Esther press that big red button now! The

:28:25.:28:33.

answer was 1989. She is my best friend. OK, that's all for today.

:28:34.:28:36.

Thanks to our guests. The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC

:28:37.:28:40.

One now. We'll be back tomorrow at noon with all the big political

:28:41.:28:43.

stories of the day. Anne Widdecombe will be with us so do join us then.

:28:44.:28:49.

Bye bye. Bye bye.

:28:50.:28:51.

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