11/02/2014 Daily Politics


11/02/2014

Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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Good afternoon, welcome to the Daily Politics. The waters rise, more rain

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is forecast as politicians try to get a grip of the flooding affecting

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large parts of the UK. We will bring you the latest.

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MPs vote to ban smoking in cars with children, but there is opposition

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from Cabinet ministers, and it is not clear how the ban will be

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implemented. News, there is lots of it, but are

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we equipped to take it all in? We will be talking to the author of a

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user's manual. And the claws are out in the latest

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vote rigging scandal to hit Westminster, MPs get catty over who

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has the best looking moggy. All the important stories, of

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course, any next hour! And no dispute about who is top cat in the

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studio today, television presenter and journalist Fiona Phillips,

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welcome to the programme. It is very kind of you! Let's start with

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smoking, because last night MPs voted in favour of a ban on smoking

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in cars carrying children, and amendment put down by Labour MPs,

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and the Government side were given a free vote on the issue. Downing

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Street says such a ban would come into force before the next

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election. Let's get a flavour of the debate. The Government is clear, and

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I think all members are clear, that children should not be exposed to

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the harm of second-hand smoke, which can be extremely harmful to young

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children. They have chucked no choice about being in places where

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they are exposed to smoke in many cases. Are we going to have smoking

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police weaving in and out of traffic and looking in car windows? There

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must be a serious answer do this, how can it be enforced? If we know

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beyond doubt that passive smoking in an enclosed space can do serious

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harm to a person's health, and that hundreds of thousands of children

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are being subjected to this in a Karl every single week, and if we

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know from experience of similar laws passed in this country and other

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countries that legislation can have a major impact in changing behaviour

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and improving public health, should we act and do something? Or do we

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stand by and do nothing? By that same token, would she therefore

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concede that we should criminalise pregnant women who smoke on the

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basis that their child is in an even more confined space than in a car? I

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have no quibble at all with the honourable lady for Liverpool way

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betray, she represents the smug, patronising excesses of new Labour

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who thinks the only reason they are in parliament is to ban things they

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do not like. What perturbs me are the Conservative ministers who

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appeared to have not grasped the concept, even though they claim to

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be Conservatives, that you can disapprove of something without

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actually banning it. This is just yet another in the long line of

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Tridents for the nanny state. If the honourable member had been present

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at the time, he would argue very strongly against compulsory seat

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belts in cars. Of course he would have done! Because when I was

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listening to him today, I heard the authentic voice of primitive

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Toryism. And on the note of primitive

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Toryism, let's speak to Ross Hawkins. People were divided over

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this issue, when today, right up to ministerial and Cabinet level? This

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is the thing, Jo, this Government is about to introduce legislation, it

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says by the election that is the sort of thing that affects real

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lives. It is understood and will stick in the memory, it could even

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change a little bit of the national behavioural culture. And yet large

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swathes of the Government did not want to do it at all. Nick Clegg did

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not vote, he could only persuade four to vote against. Many others

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were against this, Theresa May, Chris Grayling, pretty important

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Conservatives. And yet something that they oppose, something that was

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suggested and proposed by Labour in the House of Lords and the House of

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Commons, is now set to become law. If you have any complicated

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questions, like, what would the penalties beat? How would it work?

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How would it function? Keep them to yourself for now, because the

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department for health does not know. There will have to be a

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consultation, they will have to work out how this is going to happen.

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They are not pretending they have all the answers now, but it is an

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intriguing development that Labour have managed to get this particular

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changing, and I think you heard of there some Conservatives wondering,

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in the face of that free vote, why the Conservative front bench did not

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come out against an idea like that and why some of their senior

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colleagues seem quite enthusiastic. Ross Hawkins, thank you very much.

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Fiona Phillips, do you support the idea? In principle, but you can be

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against it without wishing for a ban, and you do not start going

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inside people's cars, you are talking to someone who has driven

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around in a white Ford Anglia. We will not condemn you for that! It

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was yellow because my father smoked constantly, lovely nicotine brown

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roof. I smoked from the age of 11, gave up about 14 years ago. But you

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did not have a choice, isn't the Government saying, we would have

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saved you from passive smoking? But how far do you go, into people's

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homes? Pregnant women? I mean, that is a direct hits into a feed is

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taking nicotine, that is when I gave up, by the way. How much more

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traffic police supposed to do than what they are doing already? They

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are not enforcing the mobile phone law very much, they are not even

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enforcing speeding, from what I have seen. How is it going to be

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enforced? It is going to be interesting to see how it unfolds,

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what penalties and fines there will be, maybe along similar lines to

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mobile phones, but they did manage to ban it in pubs. Well, this is...

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People never thought that would happen, but now if you go into a

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pub, people will think, I cannot remember when you could smoke! They

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are public places, we cannot smoke in the workplace, fine, but you

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cannot go into people's homes and cars and tell them what they should

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do. What about alcohol at home and children? That is far more

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damaging, actually, than cigarette smoke. Sorry, Jo, because of the

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education we have had about smoking, education always works. Only 20% of

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the population smoke now, so educating these people who have a

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fight with a car load of kids, educate them, don't ban it. Is this

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the nanny state? Do you agree with the Conservatives who say this is

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the nanny state in operation and Conservatives are allying themselves

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with it? I never knowingly agree with a Tory, I have to say, but

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yeah, I agree! You cannot go into personal spaces and tell people not

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to smoke. But they did with seat belts, didn't they? And now it has

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become part of everybody's day-to-day life, you put your seat

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belt on. I remember the advert, they have changed attitudes. And that is

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a direct life-saver, it is for everyone in the car, it makes sense

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for the whole population, but only 20% of the population smoke - in

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their own space. So will it work? I do not see how it can be forced. You

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mentioned the seat belt law, it is very important, we all do now, but

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how often is that enforced? We will leave it there. Time for the daily

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quiz, and the question for today, which of these roles has the owner,

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our guest, not been offered? -- Fiona. Chairmanship of the

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Environment Agency, Labour candidate for the Eastleigh by-election, or

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Labour peer under Gordon Brown? At the end of the show, Fiona will give

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us the correct answer! Water, water everywhere, well, certainly if you

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live on the Somerset Levels, and now flooding has spread to the Thames

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Valley after days and weeks of seemingly continuous rain. The map

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of England and Wales as seen through the eyes of the Environment Agency

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is a pretty scary looking place. There are 14 severe weather

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warnings, which indicate a threat to life, in place for Berkshire and

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Surrey. Two warnings remain in place in Somerset. Over the last 48

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hours, things have got much worse in Berkshire and Surrey, where river

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levels in some places are at their highest level since gauges were

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installed in the 1980s and 1990s. It has meant homes and businesses in

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Datchet in Berkshire have been flooded, with hundreds of homes

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further down the river, as far as Shepperton, under threat. The

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problems will be compounded with more rainfall over the coming days,

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with gusty winds and rain fall of 20 millimetres likely across the

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country. With more than 30 millimetres possible across parts of

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south Wales and south-west England. And here is is the impact that the

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rain has had, large sections of the Thames have burst their banks,

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meaning homes in places like Wraysbury, Maidenhead and Datchet,

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bordering the river, have been flooded. It has meant many people

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have had to switch their mode of transport, as residents try to get

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around the water, more than a couple of feet deep in places. Ed Miliband

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as dust and off his wellies and headed out to the small village of

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Purley, and he used the visit to call on the Government to invest

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more in flood defences. This is a wake-up call, it is an issue here

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and around the country. There is clearly this kind of extreme weather

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that is becoming more likely with climate change, and we need to make

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sure we put in that investment, we put in the flood defences and

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protection so that we prevent this kind of thing from happening as much

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as we possibly can. Another man wading through the water was Defence

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Secretary Philip Hammond, whose Runnymede constituency has been

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badly hit by the floods. The crisis has brought the work of the

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Environment Agency, and particularly chairman Lord Smith, into the

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spotlight, but Mr Hammond told the BBC that now is not the time to play

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the blame game. I don't want to spend the time now, in the middle of

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this crisis, recruiting and finger-pointing. Clearly, there are

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issues around policy, and long-term planning, around strategy that will

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have to be reviewed when all of this is over. And we will have to look at

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decisions that were made in the past, whether they were the right

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decisions, whether we need to change policy for the future, particularly

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on things like dredging. But it would be a great disservice to

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people who are facing floodwaters lapping around the threshold of

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their houses to spend our time now arguing about what he liked rather

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Easter Terex question is, frankly. Transport has been severely

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disrupted, the Prime Minister was keeping dry but out and about in

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Polish in South Devon, where he was assessing the damage to rail lines.

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We have had the wettest start to the four 250 years, some of the most

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extreme weather we have seen in decades, and you can see behind me

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the effect is as hard. It will take time before we get things back to

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normal, we are in for a long haul, but the Government will do

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everything it can to co-ordinated national sources. If money needs to

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be spent, it will be spent. If the military can help, they will be

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there. We must do everything, but it is going to take time to put things

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right. Our correspondent Philippa Young is by the River Thames in

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Marlow in Buckinghamshire. What is it like there? Amazing news, it has

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stopped raining finally! We have a really short weather window. I have

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been here since around seven o'clock this morning, it was drizzle, then

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pretty soon after that it was hammering down. And the wind is

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really whipped up, you can see now the speed of the river. It looked to

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be flowing pretty slowly first thing this morning. It really has whipped

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up. Firefighters further upriver are pumping very close to houses, which

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are very close to the river. You can see how far back it has come into

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the graveyard. If you can just about make out that Bush there, that is

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normally wear the river bank is, and you can stand there and look at the

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river. You can see how far it has come back. Residents say this has

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been pretty wet for a couple of weeks, but in the last 24 hours or

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so there has been a dramatic rise in the river. The Church earplugs tells

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me they have a flooded crypt, the Hotel on the other side of the river

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almost certainly must have flooded cellars. -- the church here. They

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have put sandbags on the other side of those chairs and tables, I do not

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think people will be fancying afternoon tea at there. Fire crews

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are using their own pumps, and they also have a high volume pump on loan

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from Staffordshire Fire Service, and that can pump 7000 litres of water a

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minute, they tell me, and that is in operation further up the river. The

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concern is, though, the Environment Agency and buy a cruise here say

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that the river for the time being has stabilised, but there is concern

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that there is more water on the way. -- Fire crews. They are dealing with

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tidal surges further upriver, and of course whatever the weather chucks

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at us for the next few days. Do people in the surrounding area feel

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the authorities have been doing enough? Marleau, really, does feel

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pretty lucky. People I've spoken to this morning and seeing what's been

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happening further up and down, not very far away across the river and

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they do feel pretty lucky. The firefighters I spoke to this morning

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say everything they can do with being done to keep the water away

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from houses. There are a couple that are pretty close with sandbags just

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haven't quite done the trick, nothing, though, they say alarming

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at the moment but they are on stand-by obviously not able to tell

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exactly what the weather is going to do. I'm sure anybody who has been

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affected would be saying the Environment Agency could be doing

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more. I've been speaking to people here who have been measuring the

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flow of the river and saying it's pretty fast. They are trying to

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enter is about what's going to happen but, of course, there's an

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element of guesswork and they are trying to do as much as they can,

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they tell me, for the residents in this area. Philip Ah, thank you very

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much. Joining me now is John Howell, Conservative MP for Henley. How is

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it there? Henley is suffering from flooding as is the rest of the

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constituency. It's basically around the Thames, but, fortunately,

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there's not that many properties affected. It's not the disaster area

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of the bits of the country. So you are seeing this as a crisis that

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perhaps the Government should have stepped in earlier to deal with? No,

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in my constituency, the flooding is not yet affecting major properties.

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The council are working extremely hard on this. They have issued 6000

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sandbags already. They are working very hard with the Fire Service to

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have the right pumps in place. What I'm saying is if their concentration

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on that which is actually helped to give the situation at bay. What

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difference has it made seeing Government ministers and senior

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politicians of all parties out and about in flood hit areas? It's a

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great question and a great PR opportunity, but I'm not sure we do

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very much by going out into the water. We can be sympathetic to

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people and all of that. What I have done is to have meetings with the

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Environment Agency in order to ensure that what I think is being

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done is really being done and they are doing all that they can to deal

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with the situation. How helpful has it been listening to and watching

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the name-calling and sniping between ministers and the Environment Agency

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over the past few weeks? I think Philip Hammond's was the best on

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this. There are issues with the Environment Agency over the whole

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policy of dredging, for example. It's a big issue in the north and my

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own constituency but now was not the time to have those issues. Now was

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not the time to have a discussion with the Environment Agency. Now is

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the time to provide assistance to the people flooded and then tackle

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it later. Who should be providing that assistance in your mind? Who in

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a broader sense should be providing information? People talk about great

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community spirit and volunteer services and the Fire Service and

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how marvellous they have been. Should be local initiatives to did

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with local crisis is? We are facing an unusual situation with people

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saying it's the worst rain for 250 years. Ultimately, it comes down to

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a draining a hell of a lot. But who'd you expect to help? The

:18:26.:18:31.

Government, centrally controlled, or local initiatives in the way you

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have described? A bit of both, and the Prime Minister has already set

:18:37.:18:39.

out what the central Government will provide on the way of assistance

:18:40.:18:42.

from the military, additional sandbags, flood equipment, but it

:18:43.:18:49.

also comes down to the fact that we need to be planning properly. And

:18:50.:18:53.

not building on the flood plain. We will come onto that. Just looking at

:18:54.:18:59.

it from the outside, I presume your home has not been flooded. What do

:19:00.:19:03.

you feel for these people who are now dealing with on a daily basis?

:19:04.:19:08.

What I find, cut, not their situation, but suddenly politicians

:19:09.:19:12.

going out there and being the font of all knowledge were adding to do

:19:13.:19:14.

with flooding and how it affects people in what should be done. They

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should have been out in the communities before this. But, well,

:19:18.:19:24.

it's awful. I have a small business near Somerset, actually, a pub which

:19:25.:19:29.

people are not able to get to the moment. There are small businesses

:19:30.:19:32.

and homes all over the place being affected. I've heard of landlords is

:19:33.:19:38.

mourning not re-homing people who are being forced out of their homes.

:19:39.:19:43.

It needs everyone to help. The HMRC needs the good businesses when their

:19:44.:19:47.

VAT quarters adieu, and not be hard on them. The banks to listen when

:19:48.:19:54.

businesses can't afford to pay their small loan payments. It reaches out

:19:55.:20:00.

further out than people in their homes, but that's really tragic. Who

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was going to pay fraud this? Insurers estimate it could be up to

:20:06.:20:12.

?1 billion. -- pay for this. The Prime Minister has to ?7 million

:20:13.:20:15.

front to help councils were the immediate clean-up. There will be a

:20:16.:20:21.

big call on the insurance companies. That's why people pay insurers. So

:20:22.:20:27.

people's premiums are going to go sky-high presumably as a result of

:20:28.:20:31.

this, and it could affect people outside of those flooded areas, too?

:20:32.:20:37.

I have no idea how the insurance industry will react to this, but the

:20:38.:20:41.

first call has to be on the insurance industry, because people

:20:42.:20:44.

are their premiums and they need something back for them. You talked

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about planning and people would say planning and perhaps more money

:20:49.:20:53.

going into Government agencies like the Environment Agency, and into

:20:54.:21:00.

desperate -- DEFRA, may have prevented the excesses of flooding.

:21:01.:21:07.

Firstly, no more money going into the Environment Agency would have

:21:08.:21:10.

affected this in the slightest. The amount of money going into the

:21:11.:21:14.

Environment Agency has continued to increase. Now, the issue of planning

:21:15.:21:17.

is an important one. We need to ensure, as the National planning

:21:18.:21:22.

poverty framework makes absolutely clear, that we do not make the

:21:23.:21:28.

situation worse on the flood plain. It's very clear about the areas in

:21:29.:21:32.

which building can take place, and if building does need to take place

:21:33.:21:36.

on the flood plain, because sometimes it does, it needs to make

:21:37.:21:40.

sure that it takes every precaution it can to overcome the problems of

:21:41.:21:45.

flooding. When it came to funding for DEFRA in flood defences in real

:21:46.:21:49.

terms, that amount has fallen since the Government has been in power

:21:50.:21:58.

from ?690 million to ?576 million. Was that correct? I think you're

:21:59.:22:06.

being selective in the figures. No, the Government has spent some

:22:07.:22:09.

amounts to the last four years of a Labour Government, but in real

:22:10.:22:12.

terms, if you count inflation, it is fallen, and that a Parliamentary

:22:13.:22:18.

figure. What do we do about things like the policy on dredging for

:22:19.:22:25.

example? More money might have paid the more dredging. It's not a

:22:26.:22:29.

question of money coming back. It's a question of policy, and we need to

:22:30.:22:34.

discuss this with the Environment Agency at a later stage but now is

:22:35.:22:40.

not the time for that. Thank you. Now, earlier this month the Labour

:22:41.:22:43.

peer Sally Morgan spoke of her unhappiness at not being

:22:44.:22:45.

re-appointed to the role of Chairman of the Education Watchdog Ofsted.

:22:46.:22:49.

Reports over the weekend suggested that Education Secretary Michael

:22:50.:22:52.

Gove might replace other members of Ofsted's board. Mr Gove was asked

:22:53.:22:57.

about the issue by Shadow Education Secretary Tristam Hunt in parliament

:22:58.:22:58.

yesterday. Mr Speaker, we will see that the

:22:59.:23:10.

Secretary of State has refused to condemn the campaign against the

:23:11.:23:13.

chief inspector and is not the truth of the matter that Ofsted is

:23:14.:23:19.

inspecting the free schools without fear or favour and he doesn't like

:23:20.:23:24.

it. The chief inspector wants to inspect Academy chains and he

:23:25.:23:27.

doesn't like it. On Friday, a secondary school closed and a new

:23:28.:23:33.

Ofsted purge on Sunday. Surely he should be focused on raising

:23:34.:23:38.

standards, not politicising our school inspectorate system. If he

:23:39.:23:46.

wants to be taken seriously, he must pay close attention to the facts.

:23:47.:23:52.

And the facts are these, that I had been zealous and making sure that we

:23:53.:23:57.

applied a typed and more rigorous inspection framework to all schools,

:23:58.:24:00.

free schools, academies, maintained schools, and I appointed Sally

:24:01.:24:06.

Morgan and I have been leading change in our schools. I have been

:24:07.:24:12.

the person in system to be held our education system to the highest

:24:13.:24:14.

standard and I'm the person demanding the honourable gentleman

:24:15.:24:19.

once again, once again, withdraws the statement he made earlier

:24:20.:24:24.

putting words into the mouths of Sir Michael will sure he did not at. If

:24:25.:24:28.

he doesn't, we will draw the appropriate conclusion that his

:24:29.:24:31.

policies, are both timid and incoherent. Michael Gove and Tristam

:24:32.:24:41.

Hunt they are engaging in lively debate. And joining us is a

:24:42.:24:50.

supporter of the government's education reforms and free school

:24:51.:24:53.

founder Toby Young. Welcome to the programme. Is this another example

:24:54.:24:55.

of Michael Gove attacking the educational establishment he wants

:24:56.:24:59.

to improve? I don't think he has been attacking it. I think Sir

:25:00.:25:05.

Michael Wilshaw misunderstood and thought that policy exchange had

:25:06.:25:13.

reports commissioned into Ofsted pondered by the Secretary of

:25:14.:25:17.

State... Think tanks, that's what was claimed against Ofsted, but is

:25:18.:25:22.

not undermined. The head of Ofsted as saying he is undermined, he feels

:25:23.:25:27.

by Michael Gove on the Government, spitting blood about those

:25:28.:25:29.

briefings. How does I improve standards in schools? Appointing Sir

:25:30.:25:34.

Michael has helped improve standards in schools in the first place. There

:25:35.:25:40.

is now timid and 50,000 children being taught in failing schools than

:25:41.:25:44.

under the last Government. The claim by Tristam Hunt is because Michael

:25:45.:25:47.

Gove is unhappy that Ofsted are infecting that inspecting free

:25:48.:25:53.

schools is clearly nonsense, because 75% of those free schools have been

:25:54.:25:59.

ranked outstanding including the free school I co-founded in 2011.

:26:00.:26:04.

That's higher than the national average, 64%, so Ofsted are giving a

:26:05.:26:07.

ringing endorsement of the free schools policy. To suggest Michael

:26:08.:26:13.

Gove wants to politicise Ofsted because they are criticising free

:26:14.:26:16.

schools is utter rubbish. Isn't this a storm in a teacup when it comes to

:26:17.:26:20.

improving standards? Isn't Michael Gove trying to push a teaching

:26:21.:26:26.

establishment which has been set in its ways for too long? He doesn't

:26:27.:26:31.

listen to teachers, he's dictator. He doesn't talk to teachers for the

:26:32.:26:35.

bid and talk to parents, pupils, he doesn't listen to anyone. He has his

:26:36.:26:42.

own agenda, even taking questions. If anybody opposes him, he puts

:26:43.:26:45.

down, doesn't want to get into discussion with anyone. He is

:26:46.:26:51.

closing very good state schools down in Boro 's all over the place and

:26:52.:26:56.

replacing them with free schools. In your area, the O'Sullivan School in

:26:57.:27:01.

Hammersmith, an outstanding primary school in the top 2% of the country,

:27:02.:27:05.

there was a council meeting last night, and the decision by the Tory

:27:06.:27:10.

council has been to go ahead and close it, despite protests by

:27:11.:27:13.

parents, they've been to Downing Street with petitions, but it's

:27:14.:27:18.

going. The closure of that school was because it was undersubscribed,

:27:19.:27:22.

they went on a pupils for though they are merging two undersubscribed

:27:23.:27:25.

schools to create a site for much-needed school places in the

:27:26.:27:29.

area. They are imposing a secondary school, free school the boys... I

:27:30.:27:33.

don't think that decision has been made yet. If you listen to Andy

:27:34.:27:39.

Slaughter, the local MP,... I don't recognise your caricature of Michael

:27:40.:27:45.

Gove as a dictator. I think everyone else does. If you look at this

:27:46.:27:48.

curriculum reforms, many changes remain to the proposed changes to

:27:49.:27:51.

the National Curriculum after teachers and other organisations

:27:52.:27:58.

have spoken. Free schools are untestable moment. Your school is

:27:59.:28:02.

every two years old. Seven and eight. And nine. No one has taken

:28:03.:28:11.

GCSE get whatever they will be under Michael Gove. People say they will

:28:12.:28:19.

be dumbed down qualifications. Free schools have taken, in some cases,

:28:20.:28:26.

taken public exams. A free school is where Michael Gove delivered a

:28:27.:28:32.

speech last week, they have got ten offers from Oxbridge, for their

:28:33.:28:37.

children, extraordinary. Have they got the same intake is you? You have

:28:38.:28:40.

a remarkably high intake of students going into your school, which have

:28:41.:28:47.

sat level for, compared to the average in your borough. How does

:28:48.:28:51.

that happen? It's not a selective school. But let me explain, there

:28:52.:28:58.

was a Freedom of information request about your school in terms of the

:28:59.:29:02.

standard already gained of pupils coming into the school and it seemed

:29:03.:29:05.

incredibly high from nonselective school. Can you explain it? 25% of

:29:06.:29:12.

the children at the West London free school are on free school meals, 40%

:29:13.:29:17.

are black and minority ethnic, it's very reflective. I think the reason

:29:18.:29:23.

we have attracted perhaps above-average children from an

:29:24.:29:25.

academic point of view is because we offer... You sort them out. Have

:29:26.:29:33.

they? Isn't a case on offer have a tap attracted those people because

:29:34.:29:38.

the standards were higher. Not the backgrounds of the children. Isn't

:29:39.:29:43.

what's on offer from some of these free schools which has attracted

:29:44.:29:47.

that kind of student? It's all a bit of a noise about nothing because it

:29:48.:29:50.

hasn't been proven yet because no exams have been taken, but how do

:29:51.:29:58.

explain at 95.4% of your intake got level four and above in English

:29:59.:30:03.

compared to the borough average of 62%? Similar figures in mathematics

:30:04.:30:07.

as well. These are children and parents who can't find the kinds of

:30:08.:30:10.

opportunities are looking for elsewhere in the borough so I think

:30:11.:30:14.

their children, who may be above average academically, have a better

:30:15.:30:18.

chance at school. Parents are discovering the school. If more

:30:19.:30:22.

state schools offer the rigorous... But they do. Michael Gove said that

:30:23.:30:31.

teachers need to teach with rigour, isn't that what teachers tried to

:30:32.:30:35.

do? He calls the educational establishment of the blog, a fairly

:30:36.:30:44.

antagonistic term, isn't it? -- the blob. Would you call it that? That

:30:45.:30:50.

is insulting to the pupils, and to call GCSE is that still two years

:30:51.:30:54.

have got today, dumbed down exams, how dare he do that? My son will be

:30:55.:31:02.

taking them, and he knows it is a dumbed down exam. He does not have

:31:03.:31:06.

to take it. Michael Gove has eliminated things like s, BTECso we

:31:07.:31:21.

are beginning to see positive changes. How does the teaching

:31:22.:31:26.

establishment response to being called the blob? Is this the way to

:31:27.:31:30.

encourage and improve standards? I think the teaching, the educational

:31:31.:31:35.

establishment, not to be confused with teachers, the establishment

:31:36.:31:39.

have always been hostile to any attempt to reform education. So you

:31:40.:31:43.

think they are Marxists, the same way as Michael Gove does! They have

:31:44.:31:49.

been saying no to reform for 50 years, whether proposed by Labour or

:31:50.:31:54.

the Tories. Isn't there some truth in the fact that they have resisted

:31:55.:31:58.

a change in order to drive up standards in state schools? But

:31:59.:32:02.

standards have been driven up in state schools. By what? According to

:32:03.:32:08.

grade inflation, you are measuring that by the number of children

:32:09.:32:12.

getting five passes at GCSE, and as we know, that is to do with grade

:32:13.:32:17.

inflation. If you look at the attainment gap between independent

:32:18.:32:20.

schools and children from comprehensives at a level under

:32:21.:32:23.

Labour, it doubled. The number of children getting good A levels at

:32:24.:32:28.

independent schools doubled compared to children at comprehensives under

:32:29.:32:33.

the last government. What to think about Michael Gove trying to bring

:32:34.:32:36.

down the so-called Berlin Wall between state and private education?

:32:37.:32:41.

That is a wall that can be smashed to pieces by getting rid of private

:32:42.:32:45.

education and having to play nonselective schools. Don't you

:32:46.:32:54.

agree with that? He is selecting! Don't you agree with that? If you

:32:55.:32:59.

got rid of private education, state schools... Everyone would go to good

:33:00.:33:04.

local schools. I am not opposed to people sending their children to

:33:05.:33:08.

good state schools, but the way to do that is to raise standards in

:33:09.:33:12.

state schools, not eliminate private schools, which isn't politically

:33:13.:33:16.

possible. By emulating private schools, longer school days? Let's

:33:17.:33:29.

emulate the best practice. At the, the top five independent schools are

:33:30.:33:33.

getting more children into Oxford and Cambridge than the worst

:33:34.:33:37.

performing 2000 state schools. That cannot be right, we have got to do

:33:38.:33:43.

something about it. There are around 800,000 people in the UK with a

:33:44.:33:46.

disease. It already costs the economy ?23 billion a year. By 2040,

:33:47.:33:52.

dementia is expected to affect twice as many people, and the costs are

:33:53.:33:59.

likely to travel. At the G8 dementia summit in December, David Cameron

:34:00.:34:02.

spoke about the global challenge of dementia. Today really is about

:34:03.:34:07.

three things. It is about realism, it is about determination, and it is

:34:08.:34:13.

about hope. Realism because no-one here is in any doubt about the scale

:34:14.:34:20.

of the dementia crisis. A new case every four microseconds, a global

:34:21.:34:25.

cost of $600 billion a year. And that is to say nothing of the human

:34:26.:34:31.

cost. Because it doesn't matter whether you are in London or Los

:34:32.:34:34.

Angeles, in rural India or urban Japan, this disease steals lives,

:34:35.:34:42.

wrecks families and breaks hearts, and that is why all of us here are

:34:43.:34:48.

so determined to beat it. David Cameron there. Fiona Phillips is an

:34:49.:34:52.

Alzheimer's Society Ambassador, Christian Guy is from the Centre for

:34:53.:34:58.

Social Justice, the think tank founded by Work and Pensions

:34:59.:35:02.

Secretary Iain Duncan Smith. That commitment made by David Cameron,

:35:03.:35:08.

did it impress you? Well... No. What is really needed, so many things are

:35:09.:35:13.

needed, I don't know where to start, but I spoke to David Cameron right

:35:14.:35:18.

after, actually, he held a round table thing at Number Ten, and he

:35:19.:35:24.

only recently clocked that dementia was not just a sign of ageing, old

:35:25.:35:28.

people saying silly things. It is only recently that he clocked that

:35:29.:35:34.

it was a disease. That is progress, but the money he has put up for...

:35:35.:35:38.

We are 30 years behind in this country because of lack of funding,

:35:39.:35:41.

and the funding that he offered and has put in, he has arranged to

:35:42.:35:46.

double it, but it is still not fit for purpose. It is good that it is

:35:47.:35:49.

being talked about and given national importance, but it is not

:35:50.:35:55.

enough. Both your parents had Alzheimer's, tell us a little bit

:35:56.:36:02.

about how it affected you . My mum started showing signs in her 50s, my

:36:03.:36:07.

dad in his 60s. I gave up my job because something had to give, I

:36:08.:36:11.

couldn't have children, ageing parents and do the whole lot, and

:36:12.:36:16.

they were living at a distance from me in Wales, I was in London, and

:36:17.:36:20.

eventually both they went into care. You looked after them... As much as

:36:21.:36:27.

I could. Is the problem here that nobody has addressed the scale of

:36:28.:36:30.

the problem that is affecting all of us with this issue? There has been a

:36:31.:36:35.

gradual awakening, but this thing has taken a long time to emerge. In

:36:36.:36:40.

relation to cancer, we have seen much more investment in research and

:36:41.:36:44.

care over the last three or four decades. By 2050, 1.7 million people

:36:45.:36:52.

will have dementia, against 800,000 now. One of the things that features

:36:53.:36:56.

is that people deal with it at crisis point, because it is

:36:57.:36:59.

difficult to plan, to have conversations about the issue, but

:37:00.:37:03.

often then people go straight to A, they feel they cannot go home

:37:04.:37:07.

because there is no support, they go into care homes. It is difficult for

:37:08.:37:11.

families to have that conversation about the future, but as much as we

:37:12.:37:15.

can plan, it is better for everyone if we can do that, to face up to it.

:37:16.:37:22.

To have a national strategy which ends in 2015, France is on to its

:37:23.:37:28.

fourth national strategy now. President Obama as a 25 year

:37:29.:37:31.

strategy for dementia. Ours ends in 2015, and we do not know what is

:37:32.:37:38.

going to follow it. A classic example of politicians wanting to

:37:39.:37:40.

pass it onto the next group, but we cannot keep taking it down the

:37:41.:37:45.

trail. But who has to actually grab all the problem? There is an endless

:37:46.:37:49.

discussion, on this programme and lots of others like it, about

:37:50.:37:52.

whether it is a social problem or a health problem. Would that change

:37:53.:38:01.

things, classifying it as a health problem? Most care homes and nursing

:38:02.:38:04.

homes are not just residential facilities, but the way we have

:38:05.:38:07.

funded nursing homes has been to keep it quite separate. We know for

:38:08.:38:13.

example that certain risk factors, we can take control of smoking,

:38:14.:38:17.

exercise and weight. There is also the planning point, can we have

:38:18.:38:26.

conversations now that so we are not reacting at crisis point. How do you

:38:27.:38:31.

pay for it, Fiona? Do people have to accept that if more people are going

:38:32.:38:35.

to get dementia or Alzheimer's, maybe they will get it earlier, they

:38:36.:38:39.

will have to use some of their own resources? Because it manifests

:38:40.:38:42.

itself eventually as a mental health problem, it is treated as the bum

:38:43.:38:48.

end of everything, if you will pardon the expression. It is classed

:38:49.:38:52.

as needing social care, rather than medical care. It is a physical

:38:53.:38:56.

disease, and if it was treated as a physical disease, the care would be

:38:57.:39:02.

funded by the NHS. So would make a big difference to reclassified in

:39:03.:39:05.

that way? Absolutely, we shouldn't even be talking about this. I was at

:39:06.:39:10.

a hospital in Portsmouth where they are making their geriatric wards

:39:11.:39:13.

dementia friendly, and the nurses were saying they keep talking about

:39:14.:39:20.

this time bomb going off. It has gone off and we are playing catch up

:39:21.:39:23.

already. How much money would have to go into the NHS, for example, or

:39:24.:39:26.

local authorities to deal with this problem in terms of providing the

:39:27.:39:29.

right sort of care and nursing at home? Already cost billions, and we

:39:30.:39:34.

are well short of what it takes to deal with the problem. When you look

:39:35.:39:37.

at the way the trends are moving in the next three or four decades, we

:39:38.:39:40.

are facing up to the fact that this will cost a lot more, and if people

:39:41.:39:47.

play their part... What you mean by that? You seem to be skating around

:39:48.:39:51.

the issue, what should people be doing, saying, we will have to sell

:39:52.:39:56.

our family home to pay for care? That is part of the realistic

:39:57.:40:00.

discussion that we have to have, because we have challenged the idea

:40:01.:40:03.

that home is something we want to pass on to our children. Our assets

:40:04.:40:08.

need to help us through, and a lot of children feel that if mum and dad

:40:09.:40:11.

need that money, they should not feel it is protected for them.

:40:12.:40:15.

Selling the home could be an important part of the discussion.

:40:16.:40:19.

And the younger generation are being disenfranchised from the property

:40:20.:40:22.

market, they cannot get on the ladder. The bigger question is not

:40:23.:40:27.

how you funded, which is a problem, but how Health and Social Care Act

:40:28.:40:32.

work together, what kind of care we want. The big debate is how we fund

:40:33.:40:40.

it, but no-one is saying that. A really good example is training. GPs

:40:41.:40:46.

and care workers often do not know how to spot the onset, so it comes

:40:47.:40:50.

to the crisis point. That is an awareness that we are slowly

:40:51.:40:55.

catching up to. If it is early-onset, in your 50s, I presume

:40:56.:40:58.

medical staff are not necessarily looking for it, because at that

:40:59.:41:02.

point it is still relatively unusual. Even if it is diagnosed,

:41:03.:41:07.

and only at the rate of about half of people who present with cognitive

:41:08.:41:12.

difficulties, about 50% now, which is a rise, are being diagnosed, but

:41:13.:41:15.

once you have been diagnosed, you are pretty much told to get home and

:41:16.:41:21.

get on with it. So there is nothing there? There is more than there ever

:41:22.:41:32.

was, and the Alzheimer's Society has done a lot to bring this to the

:41:33.:41:34.

forefront. There are schemes where people are being trained to

:41:35.:41:37.

recognise what it is like living with dementia. And there are great

:41:38.:41:39.

local projects, it is too sporadic, but some wonderful charity sane, we

:41:40.:41:42.

will come with you on the journey as families. What about carers, usually

:41:43.:41:46.

family members? What happens to them? It can go on for ten or 20

:41:47.:41:51.

years. We have looked at unpaid carers who save about ?8 billion a

:41:52.:41:55.

year for the economy, and we have looked at social prescriptions were

:41:56.:41:59.

GPs could actually help carers get some respite, but also the workforce

:42:00.:42:02.

that is official, often there are problems with very low pay, people

:42:03.:42:08.

doing a 15 minute flying visit, the training is not there. The

:42:09.:42:11.

experience of being cared for professionally as a problem. Would

:42:12.:42:15.

you like them to be paid more in those care homes? They have to be in

:42:16.:42:19.

the longer term, because what value do we place on the care going to

:42:20.:42:23.

vulnerable people if we will not pay minimum wage? There has to be a gold

:42:24.:42:27.

standard, training and qualifications in care, and

:42:28.:42:32.

commensurate salary. It has to be a professional qualification.

:42:33.:42:36.

Christian Guy, thank you very much. News, there is more of it, from all

:42:37.:42:40.

sources, and it is more accessible than ever, so do we need to be

:42:41.:42:45.

taught how to cope with it. In a moment we will talk to the author of

:42:46.:42:48.

News: A User's Manual. First, Adam has a wry look at our recent news

:42:49.:42:55.

has been reported. Water! People valiantly struggling

:42:56.:43:02.

on! We did have nice apples until the rats ate them. Politicians being

:43:03.:43:06.

shouted at quite incoherently! He says you should resign! You said

:43:07.:43:13.

dredging is not the answer but now it is! And you wonder why the news

:43:14.:43:16.

loves a flood, although it has posed a problem for West Country

:43:17.:43:21.

correspondent Jon Kay - how many ways can he say it has been raining

:43:22.:43:27.

a lot? This morning it flooded. This is something else, the whole barn

:43:28.:43:31.

has been flooded. The weekend will bring yet more rain. In fact, it has

:43:32.:43:36.

already begun. And there is more heavy rain due this weekend. There

:43:37.:43:42.

is more heavy rain coming in. While he has been doing that, I have been

:43:43.:43:45.

doing something much more to look goal of life as a journalist, trying

:43:46.:43:49.

to drum up some interest in the Wythenshawe by-election. Does anyone

:43:50.:43:54.

in Wythenshawe care about the by-election?! No! I am going to vote

:43:55.:44:02.

for what is named. Are you excited about the by-election? Oh, no

:44:03.:44:09.

interest. Why does no one care?! Meanwhile, the boffins back at base

:44:10.:44:14.

have been experimenting with this, news stories in just 15 seconds on

:44:15.:44:18.

the Instagram app. So you have seen three sides of our trade, the

:44:19.:44:23.

exciting, the mundane and the very, very new. After all that, what has

:44:24.:44:27.

been our most popular items so far this year? And now the weather for

:44:28.:44:32.

all areas of the British Isles, but definitely not Bongo Bongo Land. And

:44:33.:44:37.

the author of "News: A User's Manual", the philosopher, Alain de

:44:38.:44:41.

Botton joins us now. Why was that the most popular, the weather being

:44:42.:44:45.

done by Nigel Farage? People like that of human sapphire. -- -- people

:44:46.:44:54.

like humour and satire. People like to know the something behind the

:44:55.:45:00.

curtain. You guys are making it up, people in the studios. What do you

:45:01.:45:05.

mean? Lots of research goes into these programmes. Some news is

:45:06.:45:10.

masquerading as good news and a sound serious. The 8 billion stories

:45:11.:45:15.

happening every day. The BBC picks on a certain number and says that's

:45:16.:45:20.

what's happening. Of course, it's only very partial and at a basic

:45:21.:45:24.

point we have to keep remembering. What would you have on today's

:45:25.:45:28.

programme, what would have been your agenda on Dailyl Politics? I think a

:45:29.:45:34.

lot of it would have been how you present the information. Take a

:45:35.:45:40.

flood. The news likes to make is terrified and helpful. Wildly

:45:41.:45:43.

hopeful about politicians and what they might do to transform the

:45:44.:45:46.

country in a minute, and then totally terrified about something

:45:47.:45:50.

else, because it keeps us coming back to the screens and keep you

:45:51.:45:55.

guys on the job. I will gently say, the floods are terrible but we will

:45:56.:46:02.

survive. Humanity, we have been in such things before, and we will come

:46:03.:46:05.

out of them. The news is catastrophic. Individuals need to be

:46:06.:46:11.

resilient. We need to be resilient. The news doesn't help that. I debate

:46:12.:46:16.

the fact whether we are just reflecting what is happening and

:46:17.:46:22.

what some people feel? Cheryl in defensive as a news percent. Let's

:46:23.:46:27.

go to another news presenter. Do you think we all go for raw emotion?

:46:28.:46:35.

Anger? Love, hate, because those are the things which sell newspaper and

:46:36.:46:39.

put programmes in people's living rooms? To be fair, when they start

:46:40.:46:44.

the news bulletins, they say these are the headlines. Not, this is the

:46:45.:46:48.

news going on everywhere. They do pre-empted by saying we can only fit

:46:49.:46:54.

in the headlines in this bulletin. I agree, but there's a weird way in

:46:55.:47:00.

which despite the unbelievable technological news-gathering

:47:01.:47:03.

sophistication, the key stories sometimes don't make it or we don't

:47:04.:47:08.

quite put our finger on them. Can you give some examples of what you

:47:09.:47:12.

would think is a key story? Today, we've talked about the floods, the

:47:13.:47:18.

banning of smoking in cars, dementia. Are those issues salient

:47:19.:47:24.

issues in your mind? It is said to your viewers, what was on the show

:47:25.:47:28.

last week and how do you remember it and how are you living that

:47:29.:47:32.

information? Make it memorable something different. It's about

:47:33.:47:36.

trying to give the viewer some sense of the continuity of stories. It's

:47:37.:47:42.

an easy target the modern news leaves you overwhelmed with

:47:43.:47:45.

information so it's often hard to know what we actually care about and

:47:46.:47:51.

a genuine political story knows how to make a change. The problem is, by

:47:52.:47:55.

scattering so many causes, the population is overwhelmed and often

:47:56.:47:58.

things don't change because politicians can't get an agenda

:47:59.:48:01.

going because people are so distracted. Are you saying get rid

:48:02.:48:07.

of it? If you're going to keep it, whoever edits it, you're going to

:48:08.:48:12.

disagree with whatever is put on it because you don't agree with it. The

:48:13.:48:16.

problem with the BBC, is so worried people will disagree with that, it's

:48:17.:48:19.

so much on the one hand and not the other. You want more opinion, more

:48:20.:48:27.

politicised? More biased? I wish you the best of luck with the BBC! The

:48:28.:48:31.

BBC only once came off the fence in the last 20 years over apartheid

:48:32.:48:36.

full for the BBC thought long and hard and decided it was against

:48:37.:48:40.

apartheid. Ever since then, it's tied to a frame from expressing an

:48:41.:48:46.

opinion on anything. I was at Sky News writeback on it first started

:48:47.:48:49.

and we all had this backs to the wall mentality because everyone said

:48:50.:48:56.

it would fail. Look at it now. There's obviously an appetite for 24

:48:57.:48:59.

hours news. The issue is not should we have bias or not, but can we have

:49:00.:49:05.

good bias question isn't it a judgement you're talking about pet

:49:06.:49:10.

whose bias is good and bad? We get endless criticism for displaying

:49:11.:49:17.

bias from the tumours. There's multiple crises and if the job of

:49:18.:49:21.

the BBC to hand out the best possible bias in relation to the big

:49:22.:49:25.

questions, rather than standing back and saying you make your own mind.

:49:26.:49:29.

They do that on programmes which digests the news rather than just

:49:30.:49:35.

give you the news. There is a distinction between Di jesting and

:49:36.:49:38.

giving you the news. The news is constantly giving used up without

:49:39.:49:41.

knowing what am I supposed to do with this? What would you like

:49:42.:49:45.

people to do that? Are you saying the new should provide bigger with

:49:46.:49:50.

moral guidance? How to improve their lives? We have to get better at

:49:51.:49:58.

training people to cope with news. I wrote this book as a user manual to

:49:59.:50:02.

the news. There's a lot of debate about how the news should be

:50:03.:50:06.

structured with little thought given to the audience. Especially children

:50:07.:50:09.

today. What should we teach people about the news? We can into the

:50:10.:50:13.

world of news that thinking about it. I have this debate with a radio

:50:14.:50:18.

on all the time and I'm not monitoring back closely what they're

:50:19.:50:21.

listening to and what their absorbing. I remember when my

:50:22.:50:26.

children were affected by what they have seen on the news, actually, and

:50:27.:50:30.

you can't say, don't worry, it's not real. It is real. I remember 6pm

:50:31.:50:36.

news bulletin, I can't member the news was on, and there was rape and

:50:37.:50:42.

murder and I thought, how do I explain all this away? And how do I

:50:43.:50:46.

put it into context? Most children grow into a situation where no one

:50:47.:50:54.

sits down and says there's a weird thing called the news, collected by

:50:55.:50:58.

people under works like this. Maybe there's a GCSE class in this. On the

:50:59.:51:04.

whole, media studies is seen as a joke GCSE. It's one of the most

:51:05.:51:09.

important things out there. Have a word of Michael Gove people listen

:51:10.:51:13.

to you. Let's not go back to that. Thank you so much. There's just time

:51:14.:51:17.

before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was: Which

:51:18.:51:21.

of these roles has Fiona NOT been offered? A) Chairmanship of the

:51:22.:51:24.

Environment Agency. B) Labour candidate for the Eastleigh

:51:25.:51:27.

by-election. Or c) Labour peer under Gordon Brown. Thankfully, Chris

:51:28.:51:34.

Smith was offered that. I'm very relieved. What about standing as a

:51:35.:51:41.

Labour candidate and becoming appear and Gordon Brown? I'm very

:51:42.:51:46.

interested in things which affect ordinary people, people who use

:51:47.:51:52.

hospitals, go to school, things everything that everyday people care

:51:53.:51:58.

about. But I don't think the way party politics stands the moment,

:51:59.:52:01.

people have enough respect the members of Parliament. And that's

:52:02.:52:07.

what put you off? Did you think about accepting the offer to stand

:52:08.:52:10.

as a candidate for example? No, I would rather write and campaign and

:52:11.:52:17.

actually go out and see people, go to care homes and hospitals and talk

:52:18.:52:21.

to real people and tried to do it from without rather than from within

:52:22.:52:27.

because of a healthy disregard for politicians of the moment. More than

:52:28.:52:29.

there ever has been, and I don't want to get into that thing and the

:52:30.:52:34.

press take me apart, when actually I would be in it for altruistic

:52:35.:52:37.

reasons yet you're not allowed to be. Let's leave it there. Now a

:52:38.:52:40.

vote-rigging scandal has hit Westminster this week. Oh yes. Yes,

:52:41.:52:45.

the fur is flying in the Westminster Cat of the Year competition run by

:52:46.:52:50.

Battersea Dogs and Cats Home. Organisers became suspicious when

:52:51.:52:52.

Bosun, cat to Tory MP Sheryll Murray, received 30,000 votes in

:52:53.:53:00.

just seven hours. Politicians can only dream of such a thing. A

:53:01.:53:04.

spokesperson for Sheryll Murray said there had clearly been dirty tricks

:53:05.:53:07.

but denied any wrongdoing on her part. Bosun has now withdrawn from

:53:08.:53:11.

the competition, leaving eight other felines to fight it out for top cat.

:53:12.:53:14.

The competition closes on Thursday and the vote is expected to be

:53:15.:53:20.

close. Organisers said it could come down to a whisker. One MP who

:53:21.:53:24.

withdrew his cat, Jude, from the vote in protest is Labour's Andrew

:53:25.:53:34.

Gwynne. Jude, my five-month-old kitten, who was fished out of the

:53:35.:53:38.

Manchester canal, thought he had the ideal back story to be crowned the

:53:39.:53:40.

first-ever Battersea Dogs and Cats Home cat of the year in the contest,

:53:41.:53:48.

so along with ten other cats, he put his name down, but sadly, while all

:53:49.:53:56.

the other cats were cat napping, one cat in particular seem to clock up

:53:57.:54:00.

30,000 votes overnight and then tried to claim that his victory was

:54:01.:54:07.

because of a sudden surge in Australian votes. Clearly, that was

:54:08.:54:14.

a perfect alibi. Such serious stuff. A serious matter. I'm joined now by

:54:15.:54:18.

two MPs whose moggies are still in the running for the top prize.

:54:19.:54:21.

Conservative Justin Tomlinson and Labour's Bill Esterson. Welcome to

:54:22.:54:26.

you both. Congratulations for the no cat fights on this show. Whose cat

:54:27.:54:31.

is whose? Mine is the one with a white body and the blackface and

:54:32.:54:37.

very big risk is. Mine is the black and white cat called Kevin. A

:54:38.:54:48.

brilliant name. Named after his Schumann Mum's former my friend who

:54:49.:54:53.

was a boxer. What is the point of all of this? They are supporting

:54:54.:54:59.

Battersea cats and dogs home who do such a great job, raising profile. I

:55:00.:55:04.

recently adopted a ten-year-old rescue dog, so it was something I

:55:05.:55:07.

was keen to support. It was meant to be a bit of fun. It's turned into a

:55:08.:55:13.

scandal for some how can that be? Yes, who knows? I think the

:55:14.:55:18.

important thing to remember is we entered the same reason, to support

:55:19.:55:24.

the good work that Battersea dogs and cats do, but I've also got a

:55:25.:55:27.

rescue centre in my constituency who do a fantastic job. I think it's

:55:28.:55:31.

important to support these organisations. Do you think this

:55:32.:55:37.

might ruin it for future years now? I think they will look at the voting

:55:38.:55:41.

system for next time. A single transferable vote? Who knows? It

:55:42.:55:47.

would disappointing it come to this. We are meant to be doing our bit to

:55:48.:55:52.

support Battersea and certainly, my cat is fast asleep on the keyboard

:55:53.:55:55.

as we speak at the moment, so he's quite relaxed about it. At least

:55:56.:56:00.

it's not the MP. I also am a cat from Battersea cats home. I'm not a

:56:01.:56:05.

cat lover, I have to say. I think they are selfish and on for

:56:06.:56:09.

themselves, rather like politicians. You have got to defend yourselves.

:56:10.:56:17.

My cat is very good. He welcomed Susie the rescue dog with open arms.

:56:18.:56:30.

My cat is called Monty. I like that. I think Kevin might confirm what

:56:31.:56:36.

Fiona just said, because we've had two new arrivals in the household

:56:37.:56:39.

but is determined to stay top cat. What about the mouse problem? The

:56:40.:56:45.

Houses of Parliament are in the stated. Montague would struggle. He

:56:46.:56:51.

would get excited for 30 seconds and then would have asleep. I think

:56:52.:56:57.

Kevin's mouse catching days are past for the Pier 16, disabled full so he

:56:58.:57:00.

went for operation in the summer. Are you going to be very

:57:01.:57:13.

disappointed if you don't win? Not at all. It's about championing what

:57:14.:57:18.

Battersea are doing. The cats are big coming good friends. May the

:57:19.:57:24.

best one winner. Why is Andrew Gwynne so serious about it? Was it

:57:25.:57:29.

tongue-in-cheek? I can't believe there has been vote rigging. Who

:57:30.:57:34.

would've done that? I was surprised. Cheryl is one of the nicest and

:57:35.:57:38.

least capable of cheating and IT system. I did speak to her and she

:57:39.:57:42.

was bewildered by the whole thing. She entered the genuine reasons, but

:57:43.:57:46.

I think it's all a bit silly. It's meant to be a bit of fun. Do you

:57:47.:57:51.

think this is nonsense, Fiona? Yes, I do. It was all a bit of fun but I

:57:52.:57:58.

would say, though to Kevin. When are you going to hear? Thursday is the

:57:59.:58:06.

closing date. It's longer for people do look at the potential cats and

:58:07.:58:10.

dogs to go and re-home. At apparently Apple say it alleged vote

:58:11.:58:15.

rigging. I wouldn't want to get the lawyers involved. None of you have

:58:16.:58:20.

seen or heard anything. What did you win? Do you get a prize? The cat

:58:21.:58:35.

gets to be Purr Minister. Good luck to both of you. Maybe we will read

:58:36.:58:42.

the winner when the comeback. That's all for today. Thanks to our guests.

:58:43.:58:46.

Particular to you, Fiona. The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC

:58:47.:58:50.

One now. Andrew and I will be here at 11.30am tomorrow with Prime

:58:51.:58:54.

Minister's Questions and all the big political stories of the day. Bye

:58:55.:58:55.

bye. It's your job to keep law

:58:56.:59:13.

and order, isn't it?

:59:14.:59:19.

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