14/02/2014 Daily Politics


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Afternoon folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Labour win


Wythenshawe with an increased share of the vote. UKIP push the Tories


into third, and the Liberal Democrats lose their deposit. We'll


discuss the by-election fallout. David Cameron repeats his message


that money is no object in the relief effort as yet another


Atlantic storm hits the UK. Plans for a law to allow MPs to be sacked


by local voters are rained off. The Lib Dems are livid. As is the


Conservative Zac Goldsmith. We'll talk to him live.


And could viral videos swing the outcome of the next general


election? We will take a look at the latest effort from the Labour Party.


All that in the next hour, and with me for the duration editor of


Prospect Magazine Brownen Maddox, and the political editor of the


Economist, James Astill. Welcome to you both. Let's start with the


Wythenshawe by-election, won last night by the Labour candidate


Michael Kane. This was entirely inspected -- expected. Speaking in


the last hour, Ed Miliband claimed it showed Labour were listening to


the electorate. It was a very, very good result for the Labour Party. We


added to the share of the vote, we gained support and I'm delighted by


the result we have. What you saw was the governing parties, the


Conservatives and Liberal Democrats, in total retreat. This is a


constituency where, even in 1997, the Conservative Party were polling


about 20% of the vote, so they should be deeply concerned. There is


a reason for this, that they have been telling people that everything


is fixed, that the economy is fine, the cost of living crisis is there,


and the people of Wythenshawe and Sale East no differently. --, they


no differently. Earlier this morning David Cameron was asked whether he


was worried that his party had been pushed into third by UKIP. This


by-election, the result was never in doubt. It's a relatively safe Labour


seat and I congratulate the winner and welcome him to Parliament. In


terms of coming third, that is disappointing. By-elections are a


time when people know they're not changing the government. They often


use them to send a message to politicians to make a protest. I


always believe in listening to the messages, and I want to win back


people to my party, and that's what I'm fighting to do at the next


general election. Our Adam spent the night at the Wythenshaw count, and


joins us now. You lucky man. It is the morning after the night before.


How does it look today? Looking a bit windy and wet, at the moment.


Thank you, Andrew, for making me to stay up till 3am from a result that


we predicted three weeks ago when the by-election was called. Labour


with is really strong showing an increasing the majority -- a really


strong showing. UKIP making it to second place, all eyes were on UKIP,


and they did pretty well, increasing their share quite a lot, but not one


of the stronger showings they've had in a by-election. They've had quite


a few others in the north where they've done better. The


Conservative Party shoved into third place, a bad night for them. Not as


bad as it was for the Liberal Democrats, losing their deposit with


less than 5% of the vote which cost them some money. Somebody much


happier is Michael Kane. Have you had much sleep? A few hours, but not


much. Were looking at the election through the prism of UKIP. Was that


an issue or a distraction? When the election started the Westminster


story was it was about UKIP, but they didn't break through at all. If


I was David Cameron I'd be more worried about UKIP, if I was Nick


Clegg I'd be more worried about them. The results shows that the


Labour Party increased its majority Ed Miliband's message is getting


through, so we were delighted. Did you even need to go out and


campaign? This is rock solid territory for the Labour Party. We


had deep relationships here. Paul Goggins was respected, dedicated,


immensely popular. We knocked on doors every week, and we will go


back out again to knock on the doors. We have deep-seated roots in


this constituency, and I think people recognise that, and they


recognise the issues we campaigned on, hospital pressures, the cost of


living crisis and the on her council cuts. I know one of the accident and


emergency unit down the road -- the unfair Council cuts. Where is this


crisis that Labour keep going on about? The evidence is that this


Tory led government, propped up by the liberal -- Liberal Democrats,


they closed the accident and emergency at Trafford, of the road,


then they closed the walk-in centre in the town centre, and overnight we


had 1000 ambulances queueing up this winter with people waiting to get


into the hospital. We have had over 700 people waiting on trolleys for


over four hours. This is going back to the dark days. We have had 80


operations cancelled. We cannot allow this to happen any more.


Talking to UKIP they would say there have been dark days in the


campaign. They say Labour activists daubed graffiti on the UKIP shop in


Sale and abused their activists. I think they are diverted away from a


very poor result. We run an extraordinarily professional


campaign with lots of volunteers, knocking on doors, listening to


issues. They produced absolutely no evidence of that, and if they did,


we would investigate and take action but there has been no evidence of


that whatsoever. Congratulations again, and you have to wait a week,


because they are all on holiday. Just finishing up on UKIP, I was in


the office there earlier and they are still quite bullish. A few years


ago, they say, they were nowhere in the seat but they have increased


their vote by a lot, so they think that's a positive thing ahead of


European elections in May. Sounds like the people of Wythenshawe have


a new Paul Goggins on their hand from the way he spoke there. -- on


their hands. We've been joined now by the Conservative MP Brooks


Newmark and UKIP's head of policy Tim Aker. We did ask the Lib Dems


for an interview, but no one was available. I wonder why. Let's come


to the Conservatives. By-elections are here today, gone tomorrow, only


a 28% turnout, it is derisory, but the Labour Party has consistently


been strong in by-elections. It is their 13th win since 2010. It has to


mean something. Yes, it does. Historically, anybody in


government, it's very difficult when you are in government, particularly


when you have to make tough decisions, that means you have to


bring down the deficit, and it has an impact on peoples lives. But the


good news is, the government has been creating jobs, reducing the


deficit and increasing growth which means, for example, 1.6 million jobs


today extra, which means 1.6 million extra who are secure. So why did


your share of the vote dropped by 11% in Wythenshawe? There are a


whole host of factors, as you heard from the new Labour MP. When it


comes to by-elections, people, for whatever region -- reason, they want


to give the incumbent government are kicking. We are no different than in


the past when the Labour Party were in government, they got a kicking as


well. One of the reasons you did not win the last general election was


because your performance in the North was lacklustre, particularly


in the cities. This suggests that the Conservative brand in the North


of England is still dying. We actually gained a number of seats in


the North, in the north-west, and the north-east. Maybe in the rural


seats, but you did not win a seat in the northern city. And in the


suburbs as well. It's like asking why Labour parties don't win the


rural areas, they just generally don't. It is about the general


trajectory of what is going on. As you pointed out, in this


by-election, we didn't do well. I totally acknowledge that. It would


be hard to argue any other way. Whether it matters in the long term


it's harder to say. UKIP, you came from nowhere, you got 18% of the


vote. It's OK. Not life changing. It's a solid result. It is a tough


seat. You were 9000 votes behind the winner. He won't exactly breathing


down their necks. Our vote went up five fold. We are seeing a trend


that we are the opposition in the north. It's a waste of time voting


for the Conservative Party and the Liberals in the north, because as


the results show, not just the by-election, but rather, South


Shields, we are challenging Labour. Can you reply to that? From this


by-election, and other straws in the wind, the Tory and Liberal Democrat


vote is collapsing in the north and UKIP is the beneficiary will stop


they have become the Liberal Democrat repository. It's for people


who are not sure. That's what we see in the north and the south. What the


Liberal Democrats are finding out is there is a cost of being in


government and being responsible. The price that is that their vote in


particular, compared to ours, is dropping enormously, and UKIP has


been the beneficiary. , general election, I think things will be


different. -- come a general election. You have taken a leaf out


of the Liberal Democrat book, changing your colour depending on


the seat. We saw the emergence of red, promising to protect welfare


benefits. You are now the kind of red UKIP up in the northern


constituencies, and the Thatcherite party in the South. All of these


labels mean very little. We would prioritise that spending here. Where


we lead on the response was about putting our people first. I don't


remember you talking about protecting people's welfare benefits


in the Eastleigh by-election. We proposed the bedroom tax, that's a


benefit cut. They have become more like the Liberal Democrats. They say


one thing nationally. We heard Nigel Farage a few weeks ago saying he


would cut benefits and the NHS, but in this particular by-election, they


changed their tune completely. We will take no lessons from a


party... They are the Liberal Democrats now. We will not take


lessons from a party that has made at lifetime out of doing one thing


and saying another. You can have too much of a good thing, and it's great


fun watching the Conservatives and UKIP going together. What did you


make of the by-election? I'm enjoying this, but there are two


questions. Whether UKIP can take votes of labour, and it is plausible


they might in the north, but I then think this shows that. -- I don't


think this election shows that. But it makes a good point about where


the Conservatives in the North are at the moment. The thing about UKIP


in the North is whether people will vote differently in a general


election. The next issue is going to have detailed polling. Prospect


magazine will have details of whether UKIP supporters who voted


Conservative last time will vote for them again when given a choice


between that and Ed Miliband. The polling does say yes, a lot of them


will. That tends to support David Cameron's view but there's still a


big question hanging out there. Nonetheless, this by-election was


not South Shields, it was ultimately a bit of support for UKIP, and it


suggest that the notions that the mainstream parties will suffer


somewhat equally because of the rise of UKIP, but that might not be


correct. I think the Conservatives will be able to say that they will


get the UKIP vote away from Ed Miliband, even if it works against


them in northern seat. I suppose it doesn't matter in the European


elections. But what does? I think we will do well. I think we have to


make sure that we get more than 20 MPs. The formula is different, and


it is by region, and in some regions we do well and in other regions we


are working on it. It's encouraging for the north-west. It's early days.


We had a big peak in the run-up to the last European elections, so we


will see. One polling survey company has some 30%, and the Conservatives


well behind. We will talk more about this later in the programme, but


thank you to all of at the moment. -- all of you. Now it's time for our


daily quiz. And while turnout was down to a rather depressing 28% in


the Wythenshaw by-election, there's been another contest at Westminster


this week which has been anything but apathetic. In fact, so desperate


were MPs to win the Westminster cat of the year contest there were even


accusations of vote rigging. The well of democracy has truly been


poisoned. Anyway the winner's been chosen, but which cat has taken the


prize? Is it a) Bosun? B) Parsnip? C) Kevin? Or d) Scaredy-Cat? At the


end of the show, Bronwen and James will give us the correct answer. It


seemed like such a good idea, and a pretty popular one. If your MP has


been up to no good, you have the power to recall them and force a


by-election. A form of MP recall was in all three party's manifesto. And


it made it into the Coalition Agreement. But now it looks like the


idea has been dropped all together and it's left coalition relations on


thin ice. It all started so well for the two-man luge at the head of the


Government, as both parties agreed it was time to clean up politics


after the expenses scandal. And promised to pass legislation to


equalise constituency boundaries, reduce the number of MPs and


introduce the power of recall. The idea was that 10% of the electorate


could sign a petition calling for a by-election when their MP was guilty


of serious wrongdoing. The coalition agreement even stated they would


bring forward early legislation. But a draft bill in 2011 was frozen out


after some complained about the additional requirement that a


committee of MPs would first have to decide if wrongdoing had taken


place. Now we learn that the power of recall won't be in the next, and


final, Queen's Speech by the time things have thawed out in May or


June. It must have been squeezed out by all that other legislation they


are going bring forward over the next year.


It's left one or two Lib Dems, including party president Tim


Farron, rather unhappy. He said last night the decision to drop the


policy showed the Conservatives didn't trust the electorate. Let's


get more on this now from our political correspondent Carole


Walker. Tim Farren said the Prime Minister


had blocked the idea, and I think you're about to speak to Zac


Goldsmith, a Conservative MP who will disagree strongly given what


his Twitter feed. -- said today. It's is a sense that before the


general election the parties want to get on with issues that really are a


voter's priorities. Although there was a massive public outcry after


the MP expenses scandal, this is not something that voters are clamouring


for at the moment. There is also a big disagreement about exactly how


the principles of this should work. MPs will tell you that the principle


is a good one, that voters should have more power to get rid of MPs


who misbehave, but when it comes to exactly how that should be


triggered, there's a lot of dispute. Something you should not have first


in the findings by this Parliamentary standing -- standards


committee. Others think that the bar has been set too high, and


constitutional reform committees in the Common criticised the proposals


and said they should be dropped because, in practice, it would never


happen, so voter expectations would be raised and realistically. In the


mix of all that, the idea is not going to make the Queens speech, it


won't be put into law this side of January -- of a general election,


and there's a good deal of scrapping about who is to blame. With us now


is the Conservative MP who's been pushing for a new right of recall,


Zac Goldsmith. Welcome to the Daily Politics.


If you are a maverick, George Galloway, myself, Caroline Lucas,


you haven't got a hope. It was totally anti-democratic. It was not


a small step towards a recall, it was a step backwards in terms of


democratic evolution. It was an appalling piece of legislation and I


am thrilled it was dropped. I'm less thrilled that the principle is


dropped. Recall was the only promise we made in the heat of the expenses


scandal, running up to the last election. The only reform proposal


that might have empowered voters. Everything else was nonsense. This


would enable voters to hold their MPs to account in safe seats, and


people knew it, and they looked forward to it. Could David Cameron


have rescued it? I think he could have, and I think he's behaved


appallingly. I have seen clips all date from David Cameron about what


it meant before the last election, and it's been dropped. It didn't


mean anything to him before. Nick Clegg and Tim Farren have been


disingenuous. They had three and a half years to deliver it. After the


criticism of the first draft bill, they haven't changed it. It was


never going to get through Parliament. I would have voted


against it and this is one of my big issues, I couldn't have supported


the bill. He had an opportunity to come back with something proper but


he chose not to. He kept talking about kangaroo courts. The only


caught in a recall system is the constituency, so not a nice word to


use. He effectively said that he is worried that genuine recall would


make MPs vulnerable. He wrote to me this morning to make the point.


Recall would make MPs vulnerable, which is why he has not supported


it. He has instead supported the complete and utter nonsense Billy


put forward. If we were to have five seconds silence, would we not hear


an audible sigh of relief from your party's own backbenchers that that


isn't going ahead? I don't buy into that. I pressed my own recall bill


to vote. It was a vote in which only backbenchers could take part and it


won with a thumping majority. Only 17 MPs voted against. The majority


who backed it were MPs. That was genuine recall. Parliament is up for


reform, the difficulty is that Cameron and Nick Clegg are not. It


remains to see if Ed Miliband is. If he would have put this forward in


opposition, he could have won. He could take the agenda and show that


he believes in democracy and the electorate. He has an amazing


opportunity and I hope he takes it. You would encourage Ed Miliband to


take the batter? It must be delivered because it's the only way


to have a meaningful change that will shake up Parliament, genuinely


empowered voters and ensure that Parliament does its job of holding


them to account and make sure MPs are kept on their toes. You don't


think the mood has changed after the demonstration of the defection of


your MPs? I don't think it mattered at all. I'm lucky I get on with my


association but if they had chosen to deselect me last month, I would


have been happy to go to the voters to try my luck in a general


election. Recall is democracy full for this no other way to describe


it. All arguments against recall effectively our arguments against


democracy itself. It is extraordinary, really. Despite the


noise as we make, the party today believe they can get away with


breaking promises on this scale. It's extraordinary. You have had an


interesting conversation on twitter with Tim Farron, from the Lib Dems,


who is broadly on the same space as you on this issue? Any chance you


could get together to put the show back on the road? Yes, I will work


with anyone. I think he agrees with me and supported my bill. I know he


supports general recall, but his entire body language suggests he


will always put his party first. I don't think we can move forward and


that is willing to hold his party to account in the way I am. Otherwise


we won't make any progress at all. I sympathise with this noble


endeavour. It was promised by party leaders but it's tough to argue MPs


are not becoming increasingly accountable for their constituencies


and the deselection is the Tories have seen recently, perhaps the


promise of reform with the unions, it promises more of the same in the


Labour Party. There's no doubt, that rather fundamental change is making


Government tougher to run. We have seen that in enormous rebellions the


party is carried out in recent times. Voters still want to see


efficient smooth running Government so there is a balance there. We are


edging towards a slightly more accountable system. It's still the


case and it would be the case under Nick Clegg's reforms, as an MP could


go on holiday for five years and you could be deselected but you would


still be the MP. I could either BNP or going on holiday that two years,


there's nothing in the structures today or anything Nick Clegg


proposed in his bill to prevent me from doing that. I could be the


worst MP and as long as I'm not in jail for 12 months, I'm fine full is


nothing voters could do about it. It matters less than a marginal seat.


You would be booted out at the next election. If you are in an old


Labour mining town where people never vote Conservative or a


rock-solid Tory seat, that's the choice people would have. You want a


system to protect an MP from harassment, from people who don't


like the views. I completely support the democratic principles you've


said, but it proves not as simple as that when people started. People


argued about the system. You mean the process of it? The process how


to do about the party would have a lot of influence on it and so on. I


welcome the rebellions. The increasing independence shown by MPs


right across the budget spectrum. He said he needs a mechanism. In the


end, the people themselves, not a committee of MPs, not the party of


whips, but the people themselves can take action. I would agree with that


but they have won at least every five years. But it on a flawed


mechanism if you're in a safe seat. Even in a marginal seat. What would


additional voters have to do, vote for the Lib Dems? They might


disagree with anything they stand for, they might vote Labour... They


could be deselected. But, until the election, I would still be the MP.


You grab two or three years without any representation at all. It's a


flaw in the system. MPs need to be kept on their toes throughout the


five years and no, when they make promises, they will be held to those


promises. You might find MPs make less extravagant promises because


they're more likely to keep them. I think it would improve the


relationship between people and those in power. People are pulling


away from politics. And the political establishment. And all the


data backs that up. Something big is needed, and I think this could be


it. There is one example in the world where recall exists, plenty of


times but not one success story. Let me ask you a final question. What


the Conservatives going to put in the next manifesto on this? If we


walk away from this side of the election and have the gall to


introduce into our next manifesto, frankly, it makes a mockery of the


whole idea of a manifesto. People are going to struggle to believe


anything I say. It's open to the black me to point that out. If you


put it on, we say, why should we believe you? No one can blame the


coalition. Both parties promised it. We could push this through, and that


could easily be demonstrated if he were to take the lead on this


because it would get support in parliament. No doubt about that. We


shall see if he takes up the challenge. Thank you. Who wouldn't


want to live in a nice affordable House, with local parks, well


financed local amenities, and well thought out public spaces? Ah, if


only local authorities could deliver such an idyllic dream. The Garden


City movement however has always said it could deliver that, and a


number of Garden Cities exist and thrive to this day across the globe.


Two and half years ago the Coalition said it wanted to build more in


England. And then has said very little since. You can see a pattern


in this programme. Giles has been looking at why. There has been an


upsurge in focus on the garden city of Letchworth recently. At least the


concept behind it. The founder of the Garden City movement at the


knees Howard. Why? Because the Victorian mixer planning social


interaction, housing and infrastructure might be a solution,


albeit updated for the 21st-century. To me, garden city is about creating


a balance community and thinkable to do for their enjoyment. Ethical


brands of a planned development for the committed and that the Garden


City. Whether it was a hundred years ago or not. I know what your


thinking. These houses look expensive and they are. Nobody in


bad urban housing could just move here now. But the Garden City


concept was always rooted in being affordable, even turning a profit


but those who lived and invested in it. One of the main reasons we are


interested in Garden City is at an ideas precise because of the idea


they can behave themselves. You're talking about bits of land who are


currently very low value, once you build a town have enormous value and


if you can capture that uplift and recycle it into the town to pay for


the infrastructure and the facilities, the schools, new towns


doing Canon have pay for themselves. At the knees Howard came up with the


idea of a garden city and he didn't just think about how people lived


and where they lived but where they would work, how they will spend


their leisure time and also, more importantly, how they could afford


to live here. Letchworth was the first. Welwyn Garden City followed


and there are many places around the country that would say they had at


least a bit of a Garden City concept within them. But given the fact that


most parties, quite like the Garden City idea, and the coalition


committing to building more of them, in 2011, why has it all gone quiet?


Well look at what happens if you want to build anything in a a leafy


rural environment. Now imagine a building a whole town. It's not the


when. It's the where that might be the hiccup and then see the ripple


you find who will be against. Recently the Telegraph said it had


learned of plans for Yalding in Kent and Gerrard's Cross in


Buckinghamshire. No one welcomes new development. I know it's not


perceived as the best thing, but I think everyone is recognising


something has to be done so I think you answered the light with who was


going to take that big decision. In November last year, Lord Wolfson


offered a quarter million pound prize for anyone who could come up


with a blue skies Garden City design that was visionary, economically


viable and sparklingly popular. The Government however has hardly


bubbled over on the topic. It is disappointing. We have been calling


on the Government to publish its plans for Garden City is the two


years. We certainly hope the prize will prompt the Government into


action. For some, the exciting prospects of Garden cities as one


part of a housing solution seem obvious but unless it's grasped


we're all just going round and round in circles. Giles Dilnot reporting.


And we've been joined by Miles Gibson, director of the Wolfson


Economics Prize. We know what garden cities. Why do need competition?


Because plenty of people, although they understand the concept of the


Garden City, album worried about how you could implement one. We have


done it before and we think we can do it again. As your board


indicated, painted people think that the concept of garden cities in


something, and I'm including the politicians the day, but what the is


asking how would you do it quit at how can you persuade people that


there's a future for them in a nice place to live? How can you offer


them something better than what have so far. Let's come back the


practical edges of this. Let me ask you this. We've had Welwyn Garden


City, the most famous one, because the names on the title. That was a


while ago. Before the Second World War, continued afterwards. If we


were to start today, in what way do you think would garden cities


different from the ones we have done it in the past? And how would you


stop them ending up as just another Newtown? Actually, that's a question


we are asking for thought we were offering ?250,000 for the answer to


that question. There could be a university. There's money to be made


here. What might be different? We are asking people about, what's


different about the way we live today compared to Welwyn Garden


City? We are a car dominated society for example full that can be push


the clock back on that? What about technology? What can broadband and


Wi-Fi do for us. Cycle lanes, great places to bring up your children,


with parks, gardens, allotments, flood plains, things that we need in


the new cities which you might not have had in cities prewar and


post-war. Is there any sign in your view that the current Government is


prepared to commit on this? You have to look at other politicians have


actually said, so I think Eric Pickles come out recently and said


the coalition was paid to build a few garden cities. Nick Clegg said


in a speech he is interested in the concept, as well, and Ed Miliband at


who's interested in new generation of new towns, and asked Sir Michael


Lyons to think about how that might come about. We are hoping the body


of entries we get to our prize will give people a bit of material to do


the thinking necessary. Can you point to Labour not in power, but


can you point to any ground work being done by the coalition on this?


You'd have to ask them, I think. But you are the specialist full subdue


follow these things. Day in day out. I they talk vaguely about it. It


sounds nice. We have a housing problem in this country. I'm not


aware that any area has been designated, the groundwork has been


done, any plans being drawn up. Are you? You would have two ask them


that but my job is to dangle a ?250,000 check-in for the people who


can give is the best ideas how we should do it. What Lord Wolfson has


been clear about, he thinks the politicians will follow the debate


rather than lead it. They need answers. They need technical answers


as to how to actually do this and then they will come forward with


proposals. You will have to wait because it's inconceivable that the


Conservatives in particular are going to go down this road this side


of the election. The harsh truth is that the biggest need for these


garden cities is in the south-east of England. That's where the housing


shortage is greatest for the bats where people want to live. And the


Conservatives are not going to open this whole can of worms in


constituencies that they either want to hold onto or hope to win a couple


from the Lib Dems. Too bad the whole thread of the people in leafy


villages, and by the way, where going to have a Garden City over the


hill. That might be the perception, at the national level, but if you


look at what's going on in local authorities in the south-east, there


are some local authorities capable of delivering quite large


settlements, for example, if you look at Charlot District Council,


they're proposing a extension to this stuff. North Huntington, big


settlement of over 5000 homes going in there. I was talking to the


developer about that recently come and they had just four objections to


that proposition, so it can be done. It can be done. That is not a garden


city though. A garden city 's 50,000 new homes and we've not built any


since the 1960s. The government at the time of the 40s and 50s, like in


Stevenage, said to the local objectors, thank you, but stuff you,


it's happening anyway. It's hard to think our government today could not


adopt a broadly similar tack. I know that this is my playful at ?250,000,


but please. Three entries already this morning. But that is why, given


that demand is hottest in the south-east, it won't happen under a


Tory government. It could only happen under a Labour government. It


is politically impossible this side of the election. What is easier is


due dribbling five or 10,000 town -- five or ?10,000 house clutches, you


cannot have a garden bed. Although I am sure your prize will get the most


wonderful vision and the dream of the little figures walking through


the models. It's always the same little figure. That person has made


a fortune. The parents pushing the body and all that. One of the things


were asking, one of the Di mentions of the question is, how do you make


a garden city popular -- the dimensional. People will say it


cannot be done. There is no point in you asking. I don't believe that. We


have to be optimistic. We have to think that people can be persuaded


that development of high quality that brings new infrastructure and


services with it is a good thing for them and their communities. Didn't


Gordon Brown talk at one stage about those for new towns? What happened


to that? One of those was Bicester. All the 5000? They are tiny. I'm not


going to save that was a good initiative or not. I think we will


get more propositions of that kind of size from entrance to the


competition, but we need to be ambitious about this. The figures


that James was using earlier are more what we are looking for. A


city, the clue is in the title, you want something that will end up as a


city even if it doesn't start as one. Haven't you got a problem of


perception here? When people hear the words garden city, they think


that is nice, but what they fear is they will end up with a new town,


and that is not so nice, and with some honourable exceptions, they


aren't so nice. You need to speak to some people who live in the new


towns. Milton Keynes is a nice place. That is the honourable


exception. But people living near it before it was billed might have a


different view. -- before it was built. I am sure the residents of


Milton Keynes would not be that happy. I will guarantee you that the


value of those houses has gone up not down. I'm sure of that, but


that's true everywhere in the south-east. In the end, to get this


done, to be brutally honest about it, do you not need French style


planning laws? Otherwise the central government says you will do it. Or


even Chinese style? That is how we did the new towns. But we should


remember that Letchworth was not built in that way. They were built


with private money and they are successful places. Places that


people want to live. They have high value. If we did it before, we can


do it again. Thank you very much. An interesting concept, and good luck


with the essays. I'll be writing mine tonight. In just over three


months, 400 million people across Europe will be able to cast their


vote in fresh elections to the European Parliament. How many


actually will? Property a third. So what's at stake? Adam's been to


Brussels to find out. -- probably a third.


The perfect addition to the Brussels skyline, a 70 metre tall platform


that goes round and round in circles. It's a great place to get


an overview of Europe's big year. The first big event affects one of


the building over there, the European Parliament, because those


elections to it in May show that the way the wind is blowing, it could be


in for a historic realignment. Polling across Europe suggest that


far left, far right and extreme Eurosceptic parties could be on the


up. Do they organise themselves into an efficient legislative machine


that will achieve what they want to try and undo bits of legislation,


try to roll back the political frontiers of Europe? Or will they


simply become a blocking my obstructive group that sit on their


hands and try to stop things from happening? But the excitement


doesn't end there. Then a new president of the European Commission


needs to be is elected. You will miss all this by the end of the


year. We are still working. He is still working until November but


then a replacement needs to be found, and frankly, it is a


merry-go-round. For the first time ever, the seven pan-European


political groups in the Parliament have picked their own candidates for


the job because the Lisbon Treaty says the appointment should reflect


the results of the European elections. But the final choice will


be made by the national leaders at a summit, and they do not want their


hands tied, so there's a good chance they will take no notice. But their


decision then goes back to parliament, where it has to be


approved by a majority, who might kick up a fuss. Then the leaders and


the new president select a commissioner from each member state,


and the Parliament can veto all of those. Confused? Well, so are they.


No one is quite sure how the back and forth will actually work. Please


remain seated, the ride is not over yet. Because the President of the


Council, Herman van rhomboid -- Rompuy. He has not been -- he will


leave at the end of the year. Cathy Ashton, the foreign policy supremo


is out of the door as well. It really is enough to make your head


spin. But fear not, here is the really, really easy version. By the


end of the year it will have set in motion the way Europe moves from


here over the next five years. It is not so much what happens during the


year, but what is in place by the end of the year, that is what will


set off Europe on a course which could be very different from that


which we see at the moment. Adam Fleming reporting. The turnout


was 28% in this by-election in the north-west yesterday. The European


elections in this country, you could probably put a number three in front


of it, but not a number four. This by-election saw a very low turnout


and there will be a low turnout in the parliamentary elections, and


what we are all looking for is how well UKIP does, how badly the


Conservatives do, and how that feeds into the general election next year.


Do you think UKIP, is there an amateur bit about them, that they're


not very good at managing expectations? It is a political


skill and they have had Nigel Farage and other leading UKIP people on the


programme saying that they will come first, which, of course, they might


not. An interesting problem is that Labour will run 32% in a poll, and


UKIP on 26, a good second, so the Tories on 23. If they had not been


telling everybody they would come first, and they come second, it will


seem they've not done well. That's why this OK result for them in


Wythenshawe is not such a bad thing. Just two, sort of, slow their energy


little bit. A big fallout, if the Tories and Lib Dems do badly. Which


is widely expected. In the European elections? Yes, the fallout for them


afterwards? Yes, they will have to be arguing even more strongly that


the European elections, like a by-election, not ready any guide to


a general election. But people are expecting UKIP to do well. And, if


you like, parallel parties right across the continent coming up with


an anti-Europe message expecting them to do well, as well. It is


interesting, even though I'm not expect the turnout to be very high.


We could end up with a different European Parliament. And real reason


to pay attention to it. And that's the story on the European


elections. UKIP is just a part of it because you will see that phenomenon


and much further to the right in France, with the National front, the


Freedom parties in Finland and Holland, even Sweden looks like it


may have one or two MEPs from the hard right. Who knows what Greece


and Italy are going to send us? The European Parliament could have a


block of 35-40% of MEPs outside, to the right of the mainstream. And, at


a time, moreover, when the parliament is claiming more powers


and more of a say in the way the commission runs itself. So it is


concerning, no doubt so it will be worth watching the election results.


The boating. I wouldn't go that far. -- the voting. Of course, I always


vote. Now, as we know, the next General Election is going to be on


seventh May 2015. And that means the campaigning and electioneering is


already taking place. How do we know that? Well, the parties are turning


to youTube, Facebook and Twitter to try and create a viral internet


buzz. Take a look at this. Make yourself heard. Don't wait for


a general election, don't wait for a referendum, don't let anyone put


jobs at risk and don't let anyone throw our recovery away. Let's keep


Britain prosperous Thomas safe and strong. Vote Liberal Democrat.


That was an example from each party but how they're trying to use social


media to get their message across. And we're joined now by the


political editor of BuzzFeed, Jim Waterson. It's at the cutting edge


of social media. Welcome. Let's take the Labour won, because of the most


recent one, and it's clearly the most sophisticated as well. What did


you make of it? I thought was brilliant, the first time any


British poetical parties accident something to communicate outside of


someone of Westminster on this scale. It won't have cost much to


do. A few hours with staff they've got, nothing to distribute and it


reached 400,000 people, people who are normally look at political


videos. Is it good or bad but it looks like the Conservatives can


afford less good graphics and the Daily Politics? It was pretty awful.


I think some people would agree with that as well, but I think they will


come back with something better. The main thing they got to do is have a


bit of humour. It's hard for politicians to drop their guard and


show self-deprecation. And awareness. That was lying about Ed


Balls being controlled by Ed Miliband and predictions going


wrong, and that's an interest of 10,000 people, it's not going to


spread far. The Labour won, it got almost 440,000 hits. It's a lot for


a political video. -- belabour one. When I see things that go viral,


quite often, they are not made to go viral. But they do go viral because


people just like them. -- the Labour one. Can people make them go viral?


Just try to be funny, drop your guard. The Labour won and funny,


it's serious. It's poignant, in fact. There's pictures of George


Osborne eating a pasty, looking very unhappy with that. The reaction was,


people are finding it funny. Here is the big question. In this country,


we've never had the video political advertising and like the USA and


other countries. We don't allow the parties to advertise on TV. They get


free space instead, whereas, in America in particular, campaigns can


be dominated by television advertising. Will this, the fact the


parties can go round the existing broadcasters, and go direct to the


public, get round the broadcasting rules, is this the beginning of


American-style advertising in British politics? I wouldn't go that


far but we will see a lot of paid adverts in the 20 15th election.


There's nothing to stop the Tories or Labour or the Lib Dems going and


buying all the adverts on you Tube. A new voter, they sit down to watch


something and they will see an advert which is what you have just


shown there for them is nothing to stop that happening. They could be


in bed in newspapers and magazines, couldn't they? They would pay for


them. They could pay for print ads in some respects now. But a video is


much more powerful. The trick is, the reason it goes viral is because


your friends are recommending it. Your friend on Facebook is saying


it's great. It's not like somebody chucking a leaflet through your


door. What do you make of this? Very watchable. It doesn't have that you


must see this, I must pass it on, quality. 400,000 in a short time, it


is very watchable, but this really isn't American political


advertising. That's not so far away. I would suggest it's early days. The


techniques could take is that way, but the tone of it is actually


rather marvellously British. It's funny. They will hire the people who


can do this sort of thing. I would suggest it's quite a short jump from


doing this sort of thing, once you get the in-house expertise, to say,


let's try some negative advertising. Let's try what works in America.


Sure, I'm sure it will change politics in the media for ever.


Colossal election shaping way, but what we have since over it's hard to


get excited about. I struggled to find that Labour advert in any way


amusing or ground-breaking. It seems me perfectly straightforward and I'm


sure it will appeal to people who are basically minded to vote Labour


anyway. That's why they approve this message. It is not entertaining. We


run it for people who are no interest in politics, Labour ought


Tory, tweeting, I don't like either party but it was funny for some it


was influencing them against the parties. What was funny about it? I


don't know, ask them for sub at 400,000 people liked it. I don't


think it's funny but it's well made and slick by the standards of the


Tories won. It was slightly funny. It could've been better. It was


hitting on ahead of a hammer funny, not subtle funny. That hit me on the


head with a hammer funny. Are the parties hiring the expertise


now to do this sort of thing? Yes, Labour have an in House person


separate from the main campaign team doing this sort of thing, and using


this to raise money. If you got this sent to you by the Labour Party


mailing list, you would get things sane would like to donate ?5? That's


the way Barack Obama raced his money. -- raised his money. At the


moment, the law does not allow you to place a party political advert in


the middle of the break of Coronation Street. If I watch


Coronation Street on ITV player, can I place the ad in the middle of


that? There's absolutely nothing to stop you buying it and putting VAT


advert in that slot, if you're watching it on any online catch-up


service. There you go. This will change British politics.


Fascinating, thank you free much. The politicians had to dig their


wellies from the back of the cupboard this week as they set out


to tour parts of the England and Wales hit by flooding and storms.


And the political response to the weather was the main event at


Westminster. Here's David with a round-up in just 60 seconds.


It was raining politicians this week as they got their feet wet to show


that those affected by the wild weather haven't been left high and


dry. But there were some good news as David Cameron declared he'd


splash the cash to help people affected with the flooding. Money is


no object in this relief effort. But not so good and slightly confusing,


ministers said that would be no blank cheque to deal with the


fallout. Meanwhile, smoking in cars with children side may become an


offence, even though Nick Clegg originally had his doubts about it.


Relief for London's commuters as a threatened Tube strike was called


off but Bob Crow and Boris Johnson both declared victory. And


cross-party unity as George Osborne, Ed Balls and Danny Alexander all


ruled out sharing the pound with an independent Scotland. SNP 's were


less happy at what they described as a latest bout of bullying from the


Westminster playground. Scotland Yard has confirmed that a


48-year-old journalist has been interviewed under caution by


detectives from operation building, the investigation into illegal


interception of voice mail messages at Mirror group newspapers. The


journalist in question is a former Daily Mirror editor, peers Morgan.


More on that, no doubt, in the news coming up. The politics of the flood


so far, politicians were slow off the ground, they usually are, they


are rushing to catch up. The stakes are bigger for Mr Cameron than


anybody else. So far, I would suggest terrible for the people, but


not a seminal political event? Not yet, but clearly if David Cameron


didn't manage to show some basic competence in this, it could stick


for the rest of his parliament, so he has to show they were slow but


were hoping the water would go away. Not bad so far. The floods are


happening in a lot of Lib Dem and Tory areas weather will be a


conflict and contest, so I'm watching whether there has been more


rows within the Tories than between the Tories and Lib Dems. New Orleans


on a different scale from this. It is one of the defining moments of


the Bush administration, but so far, this doesn't look like a defining


moment for Mr Cameron. No, I would take a punt and say it isn't going


to be either full support could've gone very badly wrong. As it did for


Mr Bush. I got to interrupt you. Never mind Piers Morgan. There's


just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. The question


was which cat won the Westminster Cat of the Year competition this


week following allegations of vote-rigging? Was it: a) Bosun. B)


Parsnip. C) Kevin. Or d) Scaredy-Cat. We have 15 seconds. Who


can tell me the answer. Kevin would have my vote. Actually, you are


right. It was Kevin. Owned by Bill Esterson, Labour MP for Sefton


Central. That is it for today. Thanks to Bronwen, James and all my


guests. I'll be back on BBC One on Sunday with the Sunday Politics.


I'll be joined by the RMT union leader Bob Crow. Westminster is on a


break all next week. We're not back for ten days. Bye bye.


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