29/04/2014 Daily Politics


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Good afternoon. Welcome to the Daily Politics. David Cameron firms up his


pledge for an in-out referendum on Europe, saying he won't lead a


government that can't deliver one. Will it convince the voters? What is


the EU ever done for women? Well, quite a lot say its fan, so would


women suffer if Britain left? They have come a long way since the


Sinclair C 5 but are electric cars the future of British motoring? And


as another British politician admits they admire the Russian President,


we ask what is it about Vladimir? All that in the next hour, and with


us for the whole programme today is one of Britain's leading


commentators on public opinion. She worked for the Labour Party where


she was Gordon Brown's pollster, now she runs a company called Britain


Thinks. She is Deborah Mattinson. she runs a company called Britain


Thinks. She is Westminster to the programme. First pupils have


returned to school in Leeds, where yesterday 61-year-old Spanish and


religious studies teacher Anne Maguire was stabbed to death. A


15-year-old boy a pupil at the school has been arrested. She has


been remembered as a mass in the church next door to the Corpus


Christi Catholic College. A priest, Monsignor Paul Fisher, paid tribute


to her. She was so full of life, she was always extremely positive, in a


way, people have seen pictures of her, her face radiates goodness and


kindness, that is what we have heard from many of the people who have


been interviewed and many of the tributes say this, she was a


wonderful woman. Deborah Mattinson, a shocking crime. Mercifully rare if


you look back over the last 20 years or so. And increasingly rare, that


is why it is so shocking, I think if you go back, 10, 20 years ago,


people were much more fearful about crime, violent crime felt like it


was more round us, we have been doing a survey looking at London and


how Londoners feel about London, contrasting what we are finding with


the '70s and 80s where crime dominated. At that point four in ten


people said they didn't go out at night because they were fearful of


crime in London. I think that has changed and for the better, which is


what makes tragic events like yesterday's all the more shocking.


It is interesting the decline in crime and it has been slowly coming


down in most areas of crime over the last few decades but an incident


like this in a school raises questions again, about whether there


are even small number of pupils going into school with weapons. Yes,


the thing about should pupils be screened, should it be like getting


on an aeroplane, terrifying prospect, but when something like


this happens we look at what we immediate to do to stop it has


beening again. I think there is a feeling and hope that this is a


one-off tragedy, and not something that could lead to the sort of thing


that you have described, which is Koreaning of pupil, there will be


people who will call for that. There certainly will, but personally I


would be hoping that against the backdrop of decrease in crime and


people's, you know increasing confidence generally, no


withstanding yet, confidence about going out and about and about their


daily tasks it will be seen as the one off that I hope it is S Let us


leave it there. People using public transport in and


round London are experiencing severe delays as tube workers continue


their 48-hour strike over plans to close all ticket offices.


The Prime Minister has called the strike unacceptable, and here are


the views of some commuters this morning.


I have an important meeting so devastated. I am stuck. I am


debating whether to go home. It is a long walk. I support them. The of


course, it makes travel difficult, but that is the point, but what they


are fighting for is jobs and safety and the retention of ticket offices


in tube stations. I can't see how anyone would disa degree with that.


Stressed. Annoyed. I want to get to work, that is all I want to do, but


I understand the strike, the reasons and stuff, but it doesn't make me


feel better. Views of commuters trying to get the work. Joining me


from RMT head office is the acting General Secretary of the RMT union


Mick Cash. Welcome to the programme. Mr Cash, according to Transport for


London there is a good service on the Northern Line and all other


lines are running a service apart from the Circle line and the


Waterloo line. Do you consider that a successful strike? I think I we


have had a major impact on the service today. We don't want to be


in this position, but we are, because Boris Johnson, the Mayor of


London, who has waded into this debate today broke his promise to


the people of London. We desperately tried yesterday to make sure the


action didn't go ahead, but unfortunately, London Underground


management seem to be inran gent and determined not to listen to our real


concerns about the future of the tube network. Let us look at the


future in terms of plans to close the ticket offices. The Mayor of


London isn't going to change those plans, is he? He hasn't got the


money to verse the cuts. Well, yes, you are right they have turned round


and said they will make ?50 million worth of cuts, but he made that


promise and he should keep that promise, when we were talking about


every single booking office being closed. Every one, it is madness,


absolute madness. He should know that. They are talking about 1,000


jobs going on the back of that. We will come to the jobs in a moment.


Is there room for compromise? How many ticket offices would you be


prepared to see close? You say you think it is ridiculous to close all


of them, what about three-quarters of them? Well, look, I mean we took


action back in February, and we suspend the action because we were


promised a station by station review, promised a station by


station review by London Underground management. That hasn't happened.


The questions you are asking would have been answered if they had, I am


getting feedback, the question you are asking is actually created, is


creating the difficulties for us, we wanted to be in a position to


examine detail, line by line, station by station, London


Underground's rational for closing booking offices and getting rid of


vital staff. We wanted to make sure that the travelling public,


Londoners were properly consulted. None of that has happened. But you


in principle accept the idea that the tube network could function


efficiently if a large number of ticket offices were closed? No, we


do not accept that, we accept that we need to look at every single


station and review what London Underground's plans are, and the


rational behind it. We haven't had the opportunity do that. You are


asking me to predetermine the outcome of a review, they have said


you can have the review, but we will still close every booking office,


and we will still make 1,000 job cuts. That is not the way to have


meaningful discussions. Let us look at the job cut, because you are


causing misery arguably to million of people in the south-east and none


of your members is going to face compulsory redundancy. This is all


voluntary and there are plenty of people offering themselves up for


redundancy and they won't have their pay and conditions affected the ones


who stay. No, there will be impact on the staff who stay, because you


will have less staff to do the work. Is there compulsory redundancy?


There are no compulsory redundancies are there? No, that is the problem


you have got, if you let people go, when you haven't examined properly


the need to close booking offices and to reduce staffing on stations


you are going to be in a situation where you put the quality of service


and safety at risk, hand is why we wanted this proper, full and


meaningful consultation, that has not happened and I ambit early


disappoint about that. We shouldn't be in this position. Yesterday when


we met Mike Brown, we said we have drawn the threat over theory booking


office, let us have a proper consultation, not only with with us


but the travelling people and the people of London. They refused that.


If they had accepted that suggestion s we wouldn't be talking today about


industrial action, and it would not havehad. I am disappointed about


that. The other trade union involved is still in talks with Transport for


London, so why aren't you still in talks, if the transport Sallied --


salaried staff association can go through the whole process, they said


they will wait until the end, why have you walked out? Well, we


haven't walked out. We have been in continuing discussions with London


Underground since November last year, but certainly since March,


February this year when we suspended the action, we have been trying to


undertake these station by station review, we have a real problem here,


because London Underground haven't done that, they have broken that


promise, the other thing they are saying is whatever the outcome they


are going to clovesry booking office and get rid of almost 1,000 job what


is the purpose of having discussions if it is a sham exercise. Before you


go do you think there is a chance next week's strikes will be called


off? Well, I am hopeful next week's strikes will be called


off? Well, I am that we can get round the table and talk with London


Underground but they have to be stop being dogmatic, intransigent and


make sure that the Mayor of London, who made promises sticks by his


word. Thank you very much. Deborah Mattinson, public support


for the tube strike is it there? In a word. No. I think that the union


hasn't made their case. You know, people are facing huge amounts of


disruption, and yes, there is no sympathy. Has it declined? We have


had a number of sort of one day, two day 48-hour strikes. So you have


seen a decline. There is a sense there is a bit of jockeying nor


position in the union, there is a bit of muscle flexing going on, I


don't think this is the way to win over the public. What about strikes


in general? When we look at potential strikes by teachers, later


on into the summer, is there support there? I think not. I mean, think


the problem is that, the problem for unions is that they have to make


their case in different ways, and it often becomes about the process s


and not about the end. So, you know, there is very little about what the


public benefit is, and that is where they need to be focussing, so, you


know, the public, they are thinking how can I get to work, if teachers


go on strike they think what am I going to do with my kid today? You


know, the problem is about how they, how they make the case, the public


case for what they are doing, and they are not doing that. OK. Leave


it there. Just three weeks until the European


elections and with the polls suggesting UKIP could come first and


the Conservatives third, David Cameron has made a pledge on


Britain's membership of the EU. Yes, another one. This time he said he


won't stay on as Prime Minister if he fails to deliver an EU referendum


after the general election. He said he would not barter or give


away his pledge, and could not continue to be Prime Minister unless


it was absolutely guaranteed a referendum would go ahead.


This is the latest in a series of pledges from Mr Cameron on Britain's


membership of the EU. It was in a long-awaited speech on Europe in


January last year, that he first promised an in-out referendum on


Britain's membership of the EU by the end of 2017 if the Conservatives


won the next election. The Prime Minister said he needed


time to renegotiate the terms of Britain's membership of the EU. Some


Conservative MPs weren't happy that the referendum wasn't bound by law.


Step forward backbench MP James Wharton, whose Private Members Bill


attempted to legislate for an in-out referendum. Backed by the


Conservative leader hip the bill passed the House of Commons. But was


blocked by the House of Lords. So David Cameron's new intervention


will be viewed at the latest attempt to convince sceptics his party will


deliver a vote on the European Union. But will it work? We are


joined now by UKIP Suzanne Evans, and Conservative MP Robert Buckland.


Welcometo both of you. Receive, David Cameron says he will resign if


he doesn't secure an EU referendum, it couldn't be clearer. If you want


an in-out vote you must vote. How desperate is he to get those voters


back? It does smack of extreme desperation, the fact is David


Cameron has only promised that referendum if he is Prime Minister


in 2015 and it is clear he is not going to be Prime Minister in 2015.


So he has made another, yet another empty promise he can't fulfil. It


can't be clear he is not going to be Prime Minister in 2015. You can't


say that categorically. We have a polling expert. It looks like he


can't win a majority verdict. If UKIP went away tomorrow the figures


don't stack up for him. It is clear the Prime Minister accepts that a


certain section of the Parliamentary particlety, never mind the voters


doesn't believe he will deliver on a referendum, even if he is Prime


Minister after 2015? I think it is clearer. The message is vote


Conservative to get a referendum, secondly if there isn't an overall


majority, then it will be a clear red line in any negotiations. It is


obvious that the Prime Minister wants to be win the election, we


want to win the election, but that it is going to be an important


pillar of our policy platform we want a referendum for people to have


an equal say, whether they are pro like me or against like Suzanne. The


Liberal Democrats have made it clear that they wouldn't support the idea


of a referendum, so he is ruling himself out as prime minister. We


are assuming that people will vote in certain ways. This is about the


general election. UKIP with respect can't. Only the Conservatives can


deliver the referendum. Get a majority Conservative government,


and we will have that referendum. Do you believe that there will be an


in/out referendum? I think there will be as long as David Cameron


does become Prime Minister in 2015. If he holds the balance of power


with UKIP. That is the only way he will stick to his promise. So we


need not just to put UKIP in the general elections but in the


European elections stop but isn't that the problem? You may well do


very well in the European elections, but when it comes to the general


election, UKIP will fail to make the grade, and then it is a different


matter. 2010 was a long time ago, but UKIP has changed since then, the


knowledge we have about Europe, the voters, have all changed. Do you


think Suzanne is right? Will it be different between the European


elections this year and the general election next year? There is not a


lot of evidence to suggest that that is the case. Certainly I would


predict now that you will do well in the European elections, but I think


what happens after that is anybody's guess. I am curious to see


who you think will be Prime Minister in 2015 if you think it isn't going


to be David Cameron. It does come back to this issue of trust, the


fact that he has had to make this statement in the first instance. Why


should people believe him? We had the cast-iron guarantee before and


it melted away. Then we have the James Wharton bill that had to be a


private members bill because he couldn't deliver it through the


coalition. It didn't pass anyway for top these are all gestures. The


James Wharton bill didn't pass because Labour, Liberal Democrat and


the Lord's combined to make sure it didn't. The Lisbon matter was done


by the time we came into office. We are talking about the future, the


sort of reformed EU that we believe in, and we will get the referendum.


You have just argued against your own argument. Unforeseen events


change everything, just as you have described with the Lisbon Treaty. It


isn't within your power to make a cast-iron guarantee even if David


Cameron is Prime Minister. David Cameron is very pro E U. How much


money is he going to put into keeping us in on a campaign? Look at


how dirty the politics has got this week against UKIP. How much dirtier


will it get? I think it is crude and new. UKIP claim that the ?5 million


a day is being spent, and it is 24 million. UKIP claim that we are in


deficit in terms of our trade with Europe, wrong. Goods and services,


we are in surplus. Let's get the facts right, not have a debate about


name-calling. On the facts, those of us who are positive about our


membership of Europe will win. You are positive that if David Cameron


doesn't succeed in repatriating significant powers, you will still


vote to stay in? I think we should vote to stay in. There is every


prospect, the Northern European nations are looking at things at the


free movement directive to check that it might need to be redrafted.


We could recast that to make sure it is not going beyond the intentions


of politicians. It is all pie in the sky. This is real politics. The pie


in the sky is the UKIP myth of Britain floating free on the high


seas. It would devalue Britain's role. We have huge influence, and


our influence... We do not. This is a negative argument, and it is time


UKIP or challenged on the facts. Let Suzanne answer. You say we have no


influence. We don't. Laws are not made in the European Parliament. The


rules are made by unelected bureaucrats. Wrong. Wrong. It makes


decisions. It is a shame that UKIP MEPs don't turn up to help make the


rules. It is time we had to those who did hard work rather than


absentia MEPs like UKIP. So why is a concern that UKIP might be going to


top the poll? I'm interesting in the politics of Europe, and I want to


persuade people of the merits of voting Conservative. Labour have


come out to say that they won't change their stance on giving the


British people a referendum post 2015 even if UKIP beats the mini


European poll. What would the public like? Would they like Labour to


offer a referendum as well? The public definitely want a referendum.


Where they stand at the moment is fairly evenly split. Having said


that, if the kind of reforms that David Cameron brought in does go up


considerably. You are polling well in the European elections, but eight


YouGov poll in March suggested more people want to stay in them to


leave. It is a question that we have had for decades European propaganda


coming from all of the main parties. No other party has had a high enough


profile to deliver the opposite side of the story there is a lot of very


effective anti-EU propaganda. If you stop someone on the street and ask


them what the U has done for them, they don't know. You could say that


the pro-camp haven't done their job very well. Thank you all.


So, you all watched the big debate last night, right?


I speak of course of the first of three televised debates


between candidates for the position of President of the European


Commission, a post currently held by Jose Manuel Barroso.


Not to be confused of course with the President of the


European Council or the President of the European Parliament.


Here's a little taster of what you might have missed.


We begin with Martin shots, the candidate for the socialist and


Labour parties. And the candidate for the European Green party.


APPLAUSE And the candidate for the Alliance


of Liberals and Democrats for Europe party.


APPLAUSE And the candidate for the European


people's party. APPLAUSE


Well, we did find someone if Brussels who


Our correspondent Ben Wright is there.


Ben, give us the lowdown on those candidates and who won the first


televised debate? They are all very familiar names


(ex-mac) these other people but those in the European Parliament


have decided should be their candidate in the race to be the next


president of the European Commission. It matters hugely who


does the job. So we have a line-up of five, although only four were


there last night. There was the spread of four from the green


through to the EP P. It was an interesting spectacle. They are all


believers in the European Union, not a Nigel Farage among them. They


believe the European Union produces better economic growth, has a more


coherent foreign policy. Of consensus. But there is a lot of


differences, too. They had the anti-austerities voice, and the man


of sound money. So there were different platforms laid out, and it


was a novelty. For the first time, they are trying to put a single face


to the various European political platforms. And he does have that


feeling then of being more presidential. This is an important


contest in terms of the European Union and any future economic


policy, because there is diverging in whether you pursue more austerity


for Southern European countries, or go for more stimulus, taking you in


a different direction. Yes, and that is a very divided debate here in


Brussels, still. All of the candidates concede that European


growth is far weaker than it should be, and that the story of the


eurozone crisis is far from over. There were fairly distinct economic


platforms set out. One of the surreal things about all of this is


that even though in the European Parliament have decided that they


should do this, they should put forward candidates, and that in


their view, the group that is the largest has the biggest majority


after the European elections will be the candidate that becomes the


European Commission, national leaders and the European Council are


really not very happy about this at all. They think the European


Parliament is overstepping its remit here, misreading the Lisbon Treaty.


You are looking at quite a bust up after the European elections,


because there are names knocking around that people like David


Cameron and other European leaders would much rather have in charge of


the European Commission, not any of these four.


would much rather have in charge of the European Commission, When the


next two debates? Good question. One is on May the 15th, being broadcast


by the European broadcasting union, that is the one that will be shown


on the BBC. I think there is another one before that. Ben, thank you very


much. Well, quite a lot according to


its fans, who say that a British exit from the EU would be


a setback for women's rights. Paola Buonadonna is from the


British Influence, a pro-EU pressure group, and


UKIP's Suzanne Evans is still here. Paola, welcome to the programme. Are


there examples of where we would be worse off without the E U?


Absolutely, but first of all, it is not an abstract concept. I would


argue that Britain working with its other partners in the EU has for the


past 40 years contributed to bring forward measures that have made the


lives of women much, much better. Starting off in 1975 with the equal


pay legislation, and progressing on with maternity leave, parental


leave. Measures fighting discrimination against women in the


workplace, but also in access to services, really concrete measures,


without whom the life of women would be much worse. And also, we with the


other partners, the UK and the rest of them, are exerting a lot more


pressure on other countries to make sure that gender rights are taken


seriously and improve. Has that made much difference here in the UK. Are


those achievements you talk about, such as equal pay, which many women


would tell you still isn't a reality, many of those policies


would be in place anyway, whether or not EU legislation had taken place?


This is interesting, because if I understand it correctly, if your


party triumphed in an alternative scenario in the general election


next year, it would be your priority to take Britain out of the EE in


order to create a huge bonfire of legislation measures. That is what


you want? That is a logical end of what you envision? Is that what you


think? That you would be rolling back rights for employees. That


would affect women. We have heard Nigel Farage say that women with


children are worthless to employers. It is true that we want a bonfire of


an enormous number of regulations, we have had more than 4000 since


2010 alone. Which ones? It is interesting that Paola mentioned the


1975 equal pay act, but we had no need for it, because we already had


the equal pay act of 1970. It tries to take over existing British laws


and even water them down and make things worse for women. I can give


you three examples of how the EU has made things worse for women. Let's


take people trafficking. The majority of them are women sold into


sex slavery. With the open door policy it is much easier now for a


woman in the Czech Republic or Bulgaria to be told she is getting a


lovely job in Britain, Germany, France, and find herself a sex slave


in a brothel. Car insurance premiums have gone up purely because of EU


regulation. We all know that women are the safest and most capable


drivers. That is why we used to have cheaper car insurance. We no longer


do. And zero hours contracts have been in the news all week. We can


chart the rise of zero hours contracts which particularly affect


women since the EU agency workers directive. It is big business's way


of getting around regulation. because Tay a trafficked from


outside and the this Government who had an opt out on EU wide


anti-trafficking measures and decided to opt back in because


Britain would have been a magnet for human traffickers, if they had been


the only country not to strengthen controls and measures on that. The


car insurance thing, that is the flip side of something else. That is


a flip side of not treating women pensioners worse than male


pensioners. If you want women to be equal, then you have to treat them


equally with men, for everything you might think we have lost, we have


gained something more substantial. Let me ask, in terms of the policies


and bureaucracy you could like to get rid of. It is rue your party


advocates scrapping a raft of employment rights for small


business, including parental leave. No that is a myth. You wouldn't


scrap parental leave, you won't want to see that being taken out in thes


of employee rights? We wouldn't. It is interesting. When I look at the


sources she puts forward for all these concerns she says, these


policies she says that UKIP has, like establishing equal pay. Look at


your manifesto. With respect I checked the website out. Was it not


in your manifesto in 2010? ? That has been ripped up. Nigel Farage


says we haven't got the 2015 manifesto. Which one are we working


on. Nigel says he hasn't read the 2012 manifesto. What is on is it


getting out of EU. Taking control of our borders again. You have no


vision beyond that. We have huge visions beyond that. It is about


green taxes, there is another way in which the EU has not supported


women. 20% of fuel bills are caused by the green taxes that have been


imposed by the EU. Who, who is affected worse? Very often British


female pensioners living alone who are in desperate fuel poverty. Did


you regret Nigel Farage's comment, you say he didn't say it, he did say


women who leave to have children are far worse less in a client sense to


employers and young able women stick with their careers do as well if not


better than men if they sacrifice a family life. He made it clear he was


with you, think, Jo, he was talking about that instance when he was


working, nobody believes that. I certainly don't. Do you think as an


intelligent woman I would be in a party like UKIP if I thought it was


even remotely sixist? To you, you have written the rise of UKIP has


been the... I want to clarify this, UKIP has come back and is enjoying a


measure of success for a number of reason, and there are also good


reasons why people feel annoyed about the way the debate has been


conducted, about the fact that the Westminster elites are responding to


the needs or worry, I don't want to disqualify or lessen the concerns of


people who might be inclined to vote for UKIP. The Berlusconi-fication, I


have to TM it, it is mine. Of British public life and media. When


Berlusconi recreated himself as a politician in Italy he was given a


20 year pass from having to explain himself, from having to answer


supplementary questions in interview, from having to be


coherent and or be ashamed of the kind of things that would have led


somebody else to resign. Is Nigel Farage like Berlusconi? Not in any


other respect but he is in this respect. He is treated as a


phenomenon, above the rules. I want to bring Deborah Mattinson in.


Suzanne Evans said she would not be in a party that is not sexist. What


is the view to of women to UKIP? UKIP has less support from women


than men. The classic UKIP supporter is an older man, however, there is


an interesting gender gap, well, I mean, that is what the data bears


out. It is true. There is an interesting gender gap in attitudes


towards Europe, which is that men are significantly more likely to


support staying in than women. Men about 42%. Women about 27%. Why?


Well, when you ask women, you know, what the reasons for that is, they


don't, they don't actually know enough, they are more likely to say


I don't know. So I would say your positive case isn't being well


enough made. It may be there, it is not well enough made. That is


interesting. That is a poignant statistic in terms of the message


that is not getting across to we I think what it is is that politics is


dealt with an either boo-ho shouty rowdy rhetoric of Westminster, or in


the case of the coverage of UKIP's, so far as a bit of a joke, with


Nigel being the chap down the pub and so on and so forth. There has


been nothing for women to tune in and to get a sense of what is


actually... I would agree. Women are more disengaged with politics. It is


just partly the nature of thing, women have a lot more pressing


issues to concern about. Than politics. That is right. I really


struggle. I think that is the issue. Politics a huge amount of time and


energy. I sometimes think it is not so easy for women to get involved


which is a great shame. Thank you. Now, our guest of the day Deborah


Mattinson is an expert on what Britain thinks, she used to work for


the last Labour Prime Minister, Gordon Brown. What does Britain


think about the man who wants to be the next Labour Prime Minister Ed


Miliband? We will ask her in a minute, but to get things started


Adam took the Daily Politics mood box to -- Hertfordshire.


If he wants to get into Number Ten he has to win in places like this,


Stevenage, a Tory marginal, so where better to ask the question has Ed


Miliband got what it takes to be Prime Minister? Yes or no? What is


he missing? I don't think he has a grasp on anything really. I don't


think any of them have to be honest. What are his most Prime Ministerial


qualities? I don't know politics. Is He looks the part. Oh yes. He is not


a bad man. First satisfied customer Ed. And he has fallen over. He has


given up already. His brother would have been better. Really? Yes. Do


you think he is going to lose Labour the election? I think so. So what is


so wrong with him? He has no go. Really? No. Can he get some go in


time for the next election. It will take a (BLEEP) miracle. There is


something about his hair I am not keen on. Is there something about


his eyes? Yes Why? He is confident. I saw him a few months ago. You have


seen the real one. Got it on my phone to prove it. How does the


cardboard cut off In real life I don't think he smiles that much. Ed


Miliband is Labour. The working class people of this country should


never vote for the Tories at all. There is a ruling class elite. You


put a snipe on his face. He doesn't have a backbone. He stood up to News


International, the energy firms Not if you look at him, he is more


reactive than proactive. Give him a kiss. What were you


saying about him? He is useless. What do you think it would be like


to hang out with Ed Miliband? Boring. Boring completely. A night


out in Nandos with Ed Miliband? I would be up for that!


One member, one vote. Just like the Labour leadership contests.


What is his best quality? He has the socialist principles and that is


what is important to me. And other people. I don't think he has the


gravitas to be Prime Minister. He is torn between the unions and the


members of his party. The real Ed was here and he saw that


result, what do you think he would do? Probably cry! What does he make


you think? He is a really good chef. He is a really good chef. Yes, he is


a chef isn't he The people of the marginal seat of Stevenage have


spoken, they are clear he doesn't have what it takes to be Prime


Minister. I know it is not scientific. Come on. I love the idea


of Ed Miliband as a celebrity chef. Which one, I am not sure. With us is


the Telegraph columnist Dan Hodges who probably doesn't think thinks he


doesn't have what it takes. Does it reflect what you find in your polls


in terms of people's views on Ed Miliband? I think that the polls


very clearly show that Ed Miliband has some with to go in persuading


the public he has what it take, having said that, I think it is the


very first lady in your package said, you know, they have all got


problem, she said none of them have it. None have what it take, that is


what the polls beer out. We have never been at a point where all the


political leaders are held in such low regard. -- bare. People look at


them and say, you know what, I don't like any of them, and that is the


situation we are in. According to your rivals, YouGov Ed Miliband


scores better than the Prime Minister on thinks like honesty and


being in touch with ordinary people, but loses out on strength and being


good in a crisis, decisiveness, the things you would need for people to


see you as the next Prime Minister. So a nice guy but not someone would


like in charge, is that fair? Yes, I think that is fair, I mean going


back to the point I just made there, if you look at this YouGov data or


any data that looks at the attributes of leader, you will see


the current batch score lore than any other previous group of people.


The highest score anybody gets the average is in the low teens on these


sorts of attributes, Ed Miliband does have one very clear strength,


which is being in touch with the needs of ordinary people. And that


is something I any needs to build on. Isn't that going to be key in


the run up to the election? That is why the leadership and the Labour


Party are pushing things like the cost of living crisis, if he is seen


as the embodiment if you like of that, then that will do him a lot of


favours. The Dee when people are choosing a Prime Minister is one of


the candidates is best suited to be Prime Minister, as we have said Ed


Miliband consistently lags behind David Cameron on all key indicator,


what is interesting about Ed Miliband, I said to Deborah before


we came on, we have had several discussions of this nature since Ed


Miliband was elected leader and they are the same. The perceptions of Ed


Miliband haven't really changed since the first six months after he


was elected. He has that window to define himself, he failed. The


public have made their mind up about Ed Miliband now. They won't be


changing this side of the election and Labour will have to win the next


election, despite Ed Miliband, not because of him. Do you they is true


the perceptions were set at the beginning and that is it? I think


that haven't changed as much as he would have liked them to have. I


think there was some improvement. The cost of living campaign was


successful. It put him on the map. The challenge, and it is a problem


being leader of the opposition, famously it's the worst job in


politics, it is very hard to get yourself in the limelight to get


people to hear what you are say, he has not done that as well as he


should have done. He needed clearer communications than he has had and


he needs to up his game. But there has been some improvement. It is


unfair to say there has been none. This is argument we have had from


supporters, his approval ratings have, if anything deteriorated. You


know, the interesting thing I think is tactically is the way the Labour


Party keep doubling down own Ed Miliband. This is the strategic


problem they have got. Because his approval ratings are so weak they


try to build him up. They build their political strategy round him.


Labour has quite a talented team, it has a number of talented front


bench, Andy Burnham, Chuka Umunna, people who are interested in. Who


can communicate well and they have been pushed to one side in this


failed attempt, if you like, to build up Ed Miliband, and sooner


rather than later the Labour Party will have to cut their losses on Ed


Miliband and start to push the rest of the Shadow Cabinet. Not have a


new leader? . No. I mean they will have to is that right to focus on


the team. Do you agree with that? I think there is a need to bring the


rest of the team forward and I agree that there is a talented team there,


but I also think that you know, the party is not going to win, without


persuading people that Ed Miliband is going to be a suitable PM. There


is some way to go with that. I wouldn't disagree. Where I don't


agree, I don't think there has been no progress, I don't think his


ratings have got worse. We are debating whether he will be Prime


Minister. He is currently losing the mantle of being leader the


opposition which is being taken by Nigel Farage. We are going into the


euro election, this should be Labour's breakthrough moment. Labour


is fighting for its life, to even top the poll. Now that is a


ridiculous situation for party in opposition. Except they would argue


that it is more difficult for the Conservatives than it is for Labour.


But he has taken quite tough positions, or certainly ones that


are noticeable on things like Syria, on his own leadership


election, and taking on the energy companies. Those were specific


positions, you might not agree with them but they were positions. But


this is the problem. He takes decisions which align himself with


what he sees as his natural constituency, and the constituency


he identifies is too narrow. So he has either appealed to Lib Dem


switchers, or that part of the electorate the left Labour because


of Tony Blair. At the point when he should have been introducing him to


the public at whole, he lost it. Do you think Labour will win? No. They


have been ahead consistently in the polls are couple of months. That


must be in part down to Ed Miliband, surely? Labour are currently having


a 4% lead with UKIP holding 12 or 13%. That is after the


a 4% lead with UKIP holding 12 or 13%. That is after Government has


been pursuing this historic posterity agenda. The key thing is


on the two key issues of leadership and the economy, Labour is too far


behind now to win the next election. You think it is a tactical mistake


of Ed Miliband to be pushing the televised debates? If he hasn't got


the sort of charismatic leadership style that Dan Hodges maintains he


hasn't got, why push that? He would be very exposed potentially. Or does


he not have much to lose? I think he might do quite well in the debates.


Where we have got to, there is this common view that he is not hacking


it, although by the way, the most likely outcome still has to be


Labour is the largest party, even if it doesn't win outright. Setting


that aside for a minute, if people's expectations are low, he


can perform well. He is a good speaker. I think he might confound


people and do much better than people expect. He is certainly


starting from a low base, but the debates aren't going to happen


because you can't have them without Nigel Farage getting into the frame,


and David Cameron isn't gay to walk onto stage next to Nigel Farage. --


isn't going to. He doesn't want to spend the next ten or 12 months.


Now, Nick Clegg and Danny Alexander have announced details


of ?500 million worth of investment to support the development


of low-emission cars, including cash to provide more charge points


I think we need to show people that we are keeping the price down when


people buy them, so the government is funding a deduction of ?5,000 if


you buy one. Second, we're making sure it is run, so we are installing


thousands of charging points up and down the country. By this time next


year, every electric -- service station will have an electric


points. We will make cities and councils make bus lanes available


for them. I really think if we can persuade people that they are


convenient and affordable, and there is no need to worry that the battery


will run out while you are driving it, more and more people will buy


them. Nick Clegg.


So, do electric vehicles really represent the future of motoring


We're joined now by the Liberal Democrat MP Tessa Munt and Hilton


It is going to take more than ?5,000 to change people's views. What it


will do is focus more money on research and development so that we


get the prices of these cars down. They are quite expensive. Some of


them are. You can buy one for about ?16,000, which is still a lot of


money. But we need to also focus on the huge benefits. If I bought a


second-hand electric car, and there is a second-hand market gaining, I


could actually save the purchase price of the car in one year in the


mileage. It is about attitude and perception. Using programmes like


top gear but people off electric cars? No, I don't think so. Quentin


Willson, motoring journalist, is an avid supporter. When you look at


urban milage, the average urban milage is 17 miles a day, that is so


easily done. The capacity of these vehicles is going up and up. That's


look at that point, of urban cars. I imagine Ben meisters are -- I


imagined in my scenario that they would be useful, but most people


don't have somewhere to park the car where you could charge it overnight.


Isn't that a key problem? It is. I had an electric car for a year. I


had a driveway with a charger. Isn't that a key problem? It is. I


had an electric car for a year. When I moved to a flat, the car became


hopeless. And they suffer in the winter. When it is very, very cold,


the range shrinks down. If you're going to Gatwick Airport, it can be


touch and go in the winter. What about more charge points? That would


mitigate the fear of breaking down or running out. It would. They are


fantastically good to drive. I have just driven hearing one. Are you a


fan? Brilliant to do drive. It is very suitable for a very narrow way


of using a car. Have you managed to persuade Tesla to let you drive


their S? I haven't yet. That is why the research and development is so


important. If you look at what happened with all of those things


like solar panels, they were very expensive, limited government help,


a little bit of help, it comes down and it keeps coming down. I have


driven everything, I am lucky. The Tesla is the one car I haven't


driven. I have driven fuel celled cars. I have more hope for cars


powered by natural gas plus pollutants are an issue, which


electric cars playing to. Hydrogen in a fuel cells in ten or 15 years


could be the thing. You don't think there will be an electric car


revolution? There is a place for them. Every car will have some kind


of electrification, but big fat battery packs? Maybe not. Where will


you put the new charge points? Where I live in Somerset, I live in


Wedmore, and at the pub there, there is an electric charging point. What


more could you want? I don't have an electric car yet, but these can be


put anywhere. Glastonbury is doing a programme of having them in the high


Street. In rural areas where you are going to do greater distances, I


presume, then comes what they call the range anxiety, and you will


worry. I would worry the whole time. The Tesla S... I do a few


miles... There is evidence that Kessler and Audi would probably


follow up with batteries. We can't let the other countries do it, we


have to do it. Thank you both very much.


Now, which political leaders do you admire?


Well that's what the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond has said


Speaking on March the 14th as Russia was being accused of military


aggression over the future of Crimea, which it has since annexed,


in neighbouring Ukraine, Alex Salmond said he admires "certain


aspects" of Mr Putin, including how he had restored part


of Russian pride, although added he does not approve


He's not the first party leader to make such comments, so let's have


# What a man, what a man, what a man...


And we're joined now by the psychotherapist Lucy Beresford.


Deborah Mattinson, he an interesting character. Are these politicians


right to say that they are full of admiration for, or admire him? If


that is what they feel, they are right to say it. We asked people in


a survey who they respected as political leaders, and I don't


recall Putin appearing anywhere. He is not really on the public radar.


He might be a little more now. Is it because some of our male leaders


admire that rather aggressive, match... Alpha male, I can shoot a


gun, I can walk through the hail. There is something about the way he


has harnessed the nationalist fervour in Russia that anybody who


was disgruntled at the collapse of the Soviet Union is supporting him,


and maybe Nigel Farage things, I want a bit of that. And he is also


may be trying to say, I'm not like the people before me, not like RAC,


not weak over Syria like Obama. Not like Boris Yeltsin. Strength is what


people want, even if you don't agree with what they say? What people want


is strongly do ship. And you can't get much stronger than that. I do


think there are gender differences there, and polling bears that out.


If we look at what is happening in the UK, the Labour voters, women go


for Labour with their soft values, and they think more of Ed Miliband


than men do. for Labour with their soft values,


and they Men are more likely to support UKIP, for example, and love


Nigel Farage and the lavish... When we see Putin stripping off, taking


his top off, he is saying, I am all man, I am the Fatherland. He is


identifying with Russia. His destiny and the country's destiny are


entwined, particularly because he has been in power for so long.


Thank you very much. The One O'Clock News is


starting over on BBC One now. Andrew and I will be here


at 11.30 tomorrow with Prime Minister's Questions and all the big


political stories of the day.


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