Browse content similar to 28/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. MPs return to the | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Commons today, fresh from their Easter break. Just as well, as a | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
whole host of elections lie before them, local and European, and they | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
will need every ounce of energy campaigning on the stump. | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
UKIP's had a bad week in the press. Some say the party's a "nastier | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
piece of work". That is not reflected in the polls. They are | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
Will MPs derail High Speed 2? Parliament debates the project | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
today. The Government insists it will bring "regeneration on a grand | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
We are Englishmen and not common market stuff. | :01:10. | :01:26. | |
And politicians have been making a song and dance about Europe since | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
the advent of technicolour. We will be bringing you the highlights. | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, the Daily | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
Politics' answer to The Three Musketeers: the Conservative MP, | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
Cheryl Gillan, Labour's Tessa Jowell and the former Liberal Democrat | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
leader, Ming Campbell. Welcome to you all. Now, without further ado, | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
let's start with those looming elections, coming up next month. | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
Here is the lowdown on what is at stake. On 22 May, there will be | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
elections for local councils as well as European Parliament elections. | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
All 32 London boroughs, 36 metropolitan boroughs, 74 district | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
councils and 19 unitary authorities in England will be elected. There | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
will also be shadow council elections in Northern Ireland for | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
new super councils. There are also five mayoral elections in Hackney, | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
Lewisham, Newham, Tower Hamlets and Watford. Results will be known from | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
Thursday evening and into Friday. For the European elections, all 751 | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
members of the European Parliament will be elected across Europe. These | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
elections take place every five years. 73 MEPs will be elected by | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
people living in the UK. For the European elections, most of the | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
results will not be announced until Sunday, 25 May, after voting has | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
closed throughout the 28 member states of the EU. We are joined now | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
Welcome back to the programme. Let's start with UKIP. They have dominated | :03:01. | :03:14. | |
the news ahead of the elections, and not for all the right reasons. Let's | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
pick up on one of your local election candidates, who said the | :03:20. | :03:21. | |
actor and comedian Lenny Henry should emigrate to a black company. | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Is that acceptable? No, it is not, and we as a party or a non-racist, | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
nonsectarian party. We expected our members to uphold | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
those values. Where things were brought to our attention that those | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
values were not upheld, we examine it and take a decision. And it is | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
often to expel or suspend party members. I will not have the | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
impression in the media that this sums up who UKIP are. I have been | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
around the country, particularly the Eastern counties in recent weeks and | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
months, and the people I meet who are UKIP members and supporters are | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
superb people who care about their communities, their families and | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
their nation. So what will happen to him? We have a disciplinary process | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
that has been swift compared to some of the others. But any party could | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
be examined to the degree of scrutiny we are under, which I do | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
not complain about, and horrible things would come to light. Were you | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
shocked by the statement? We have more than 2000 people standing in | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
the local elections. It does not particularly shock me that some of | :04:28. | :04:29. | |
those will have said unpleasant things on social media, because UKIP | :04:30. | :04:38. | |
have a big dossier of elected councillors from the other parties | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
have said. At some point, it will be adjusting to see if the media is as | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
interested in those. Equally, as you say, you have to accept the scrutiny | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
if you are going to get that much of a profile. You will get equal | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
amounts of scrutiny. But it is not equal, it is much more. We will come | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
to that in a second. Will he still be a candidate? We have disciplinary | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
processes in place. I am not going to prejudice that by coming onto | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
television and talking about one particular case. My job as | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
communications director for UKIP is to keep the big ideas advancing in | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
the campaign. When will we know what will happen to him? As you say, it | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
is not acceptable for one of your candidates to say that. How quickly | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
will we know what will happen to him? If you say it is unacceptable, | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
it seems that he cannot stand. We have rules for standing at local | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
elections which make it all but impossible not to throw people off | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
ballot papers. But we deal with incidents swiftly and the police, | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
and we are anxious to uphold our reputation as a non-racist, | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
nonsectarian party. Let's ask the other panel members. Is the party | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
racist, Ming Campbell? I am sure it isn't. On the other hand, it appears | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
to have attracted a number of supporters and candidates who | :06:02. | :06:03. | |
demonstrate attitudes which I frankly find very uncomfortable | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
indeed. But do you accept that all the parties will have characters who | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
say those sorts of things? Not necessarily those sorts of things. | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
All the parties have candidates who sometimes they things the leadership | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
would prefer they did not say. But the point about UKIP is that it is | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
riding high in the polls at the moment. It offers it self, through | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
Mr Farage, a kind of Teflon leader. The problem with Teflon is that | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
eventually, it wears out. If you have a series of allegations of the | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
kind we have seen over the last few days, there can hardly be complaints | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
about the fact that the scrutiny is now rising. As I have said on this | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
programme before when talking about UKIP, welcome to test match cricket. | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
This is a serious business. It is not a joke or a protest, it is | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
serious and you must expect serious scrutiny. What about the posters, | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
Tessa Jowell? Hard-hitting posters that were launched with donations | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
saying that the British workers are hit by foreign labour. With a good | :07:06. | :07:09. | |
posters or were they racist? The message of those posters was | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
perfectly clear, that foreigners are putting your jobs at risk. I thought | :07:14. | :07:21. | |
they were extremely unpleasant. Incidentally, on that candidate's | :07:22. | :07:29. | |
comments, Lenny Henry's tweet was the best last word. He said, I come | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
from the Black Country, I come from Dudley! Which is a glorious rebuttal | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
of the kind of decency of him, and the decent country that all of us, | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
in different ways, try to serve. If I can jump back in, on Ming | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Campbell's point, there is a Liberal Democrat councillor who we are | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
making famous within UKIP. He was convicted of racially aggravated | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
assault. That is not someone saying something intolerable or unpleasant, | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
but is somebody doing something unpleasant. I would say to Tessa | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
Jowell that the front of the Times today shows that we are speaking to | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
a large number of people who would have once voted Labour. I don't know | :08:12. | :08:17. | |
about a particular case, but if somebody was prosecuted, then that | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
is a proper exercise of the judicial system. I would be satisfied that | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
everyone in UKIP with opinions of that kind will be dealt with in the | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
same way. The difference with UKIP now is that it is purporting, and | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
the opinion poll support this, to be a party which will do very well in | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
the European elections. On that basis, there is no room for | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
complacency about some of the people who have been attracted to support | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
you. On that point, the Conservatives particularly, never | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
mind the bad publicity in some of the papers, they are still riding | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
high in the polls. Why? I think they are a party which appears to me to | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
always preach hatred, down to the lowest common denominator. It is | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
very easy to whip up a dislike about groups of people or types of people | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
from other countries, and that appears to be the message from | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
UKIP. The sad thing is that many of the people who are currently | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
thinking about voting UKIP are actually good and decent people. I | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
have always maintained that if they took a closer look at UKIP and their | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
policies, they would not like what they see. I would much rather fight | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
elections, Patrick, and I am sure Tessa and Ming Campbell would as | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
well, on positive messages. We have differences between our parties. We | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
are long-standing parties with long-standing differences, but the | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
differences I would sit down with Tessa and Ming Campbell on would be | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
on policies where we agree to push a positive agenda. Let's look at | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
immigration. Nigel Farage talks about quality and quantity. That | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
seems to be the basis of that poster campaign, and yet he was asked by | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
one of my colleagues about the fact that he employs his German wife as | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
secretary. Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Isn't that | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
the sort of thing we are getting, UKIP saying one thing, that | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
representatives from other parties, the voters do not trust them and | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
they are not transparent, and yet here we have UKIP saying one thing | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
and doing something different 's seeing as you raise it, I thought | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
that was an extraordinary way for the BBC political editor, during the | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
launch of a major party's election campaign. But you take the point. | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
There was another example of using one of the party's assistance, and | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
trying to portray her as an ordinary citizen when she works for the | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
party. Not to mention the Irish immigrant... Every party uses actors | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
in their election communications. You said UKIP would be different. We | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
are different, because we are offering the British people and | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
immigration policy which controls immigration and were not give an | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
open door to more than two dozen neighbouring countries. Then what is | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
a quality immigrant? Someone who has skills, investment, can create | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
employment and subscribe to British values. At the moment, we have a New | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
Zealand brain surgeon or an Indian engineer who will struggle to get | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
into Britain, while a down and out from Eastern Europe has carte | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
blanche to come. But all the other parties are saying we need to | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
control immigration as well. But they can't, within the EU. We are | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
members of the European Union. We have open borders, as do our other | :11:42. | :11:50. | |
European partners. It is a two-way flow. Almost as many people leave | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
the UK to go and work in Europe as people come from other parts of | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
Europe to work in the UK. What has happened is that we have seen a lot | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
of peddling of myths that decent people have accepted about the | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
proportional migrants on benefits, feeding this sense that migration | :12:12. | :12:19. | |
takes from the people who have lived here for generation after | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
generation. So why have labour apologised for the immigration | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
policies when they were in power? Well, I don't actually think an | :12:27. | :12:36. | |
apology was necessary. I mean, what Ed Miliband has said is that had we | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
known now what we knew then, the numbers, although we proceeded with | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
care in trying to predict how many would come, the numbers went astray. | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
Now, we would have put in place transitional controls. Do you think | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
UKIP's take on the Liberal Democrats' position as a protest | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
party makes things difficult for you? I am sorry we did not get onto | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
UKIP politics. They are against Same Sex Marriage Bill they are for | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
bankers' bonuses. It is that is their substance... Then why are they | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
doing well in the polls? Because they are novel. As the Liberal | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
Democrats used to be! Mr Farage purports to be a non-establishment | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
figure when he went to a public school and worked in the City and | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
looks like someone straight out of country life. So far, he has got | :13:32. | :13:37. | |
away with it. But this is serious business. You must expect serious | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
scrutiny. The real flaw with UKIP is that it is a one-man party. Nobody | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
can name anybody else in the party, other than for really bad stories. | :13:48. | :13:56. | |
There is a huge weakness there. It is dog whistle politics. We will see | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
when the results come. Now it's time for our daily quiz. | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
Today, it's about Nick Clegg's shelflife. The Lib Dem leader was | :14:05. | :14:07. | |
speaking to one Sunday newspaper magazine yesterday about how long he | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
wants to serve as Deputy Prime Minister. So how long does he think | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
he can stay fresh? will no doubt give us the correct | :14:15. | :14:43. | |
answer. I can do it now! It will spoil the choreography of the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
programme. As you can probably tell from the show so far, we love a good | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
election. We like them in every shape and size. But the big focus in | :14:53. | :14:56. | |
May will be the performance of the parties in the elections to the | :14:57. | :14:59. | |
European Parliament. And because you may have missed most of the parties | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
launching the European campaigns recently, don't worry, we sent Adam | :15:03. | :15:12. | |
to work to bring you up to speed. Everyone is so excited about the | :15:13. | :15:14. | |
European elections that they are actually dancing in the street. They | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
are in this video, designed to get youth interested. The Tories' | :15:19. | :15:27. | |
campaign took first with David Cameron going to Manchester airport | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
to say that only he can reform the youthful. If you want real change in | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
Europe that works for you and for your family that works for your | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
business, then the Conservative Party is the only party that can | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
deliver for you. And eyebrows were raised when we got an e-mail to that | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
effect from Lynton Crosby the party's shadow we election genius | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
from Australia. Talking of geniuses, Labour have hired Barack Obama's | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
former right-hand man, David Axelrod, for a 6-figure sum. Labour | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Party is at the forefront of dealing with the cost of living crisis. I am | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
not sure if he will be that interested in their campaign for the | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
local elections launching this week. In Sheffield, Nigel Farage unveiled | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
UKIP's campaign, the drink hard-hitting posters claiming that | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
foreigners are stealing our jobs. It went swimmingly until Nigel met | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
Nick. Your wife is German. She is your secretary and she is paid for | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
by the British taxpayer. She came here as a skilled person earning a | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
high salary. It all goes to show that nobody must think we are... Is | :16:34. | :16:40. | |
she taking someone else's job? Body else would want to be in my house at | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
midnight going through e-mails to be briefed for the next day. In Essex, | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
Nick Clegg reminded everyone that the Lib Dems are the party of in. | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
Not in trouble in the polls but emphatically in Europe. Just because | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
Ed Miliband and David Cameron have decided to not talk about the issue | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
that is not going to stop us will stop we think that there is so much | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
at stake. And here is what they are fighting for. 73 seat in the | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
European Parliament, spread over 12 bustard constituencies. | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
-- 12 vats to constituencies. And there is even more to get excited | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
about because there are also elections in England and Northern | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
Ireland. I don't not what they have been | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
taking in that video but I want upbeat. Let's look at the party that | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
have dominated the first discussion. The Tories face coming third in the | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
elections and that would be disastrous. I will make note | :17:42. | :17:43. | |
addictions until we have seen the results. It is very dangerous this | :17:44. | :17:51. | |
far out. -- no predictions. You think the Tories' fortunes could | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
change? I think the message, if we build on it, we are after all the | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
only party that is offering a referendum on our relationship with | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
Europe. How is the renegotiation going? It has been making strides. | :18:05. | :18:10. | |
Where? There is no doubt about it, with Angela Merkel and the | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
Netherlands, both countries that accept that there needs to be a | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
changed relationship, not just for the UK, but between the countries of | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
Europe. You only have to look at what happens to the euro countries. | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
There is an appreciation in Germany that there needs to be a change in | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
the relationship between the countries. The message is clear from | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
the Conservatives. We are the leading party in the coalition, and | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
we are realistically able to offer the country a referendum which | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
cannot come from any other parties. The Lib Dems do not want to. But | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
that is on a renegotiated relationship and you have said that | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
they have made strides. Sure, but have been positive noises from | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
Angela Merkel. Tell me one thing that has been actually achieved in | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
terms of the renegotiation? I think you are setting false barriers for | :19:04. | :19:06. | |
people to leap over. As everybody knows, one of the things you have to | :19:07. | :19:09. | |
do in Europe when you have such a large number of countries involved | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
is negotiate and look at the best shape of Europe for the future. I | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
think there is a growing acceptance amongst many countries, particularly | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
those countries that have come in from the former Soviet Union, that | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
they do not want a European Union. So why are you not doing better in | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
the polls if this is such a strong and clear message? A lot of your MPs | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
do not believe that either. There are many reasons for that. I would | :19:39. | :19:40. | |
agree that the polls are disappointing. I would not be right | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
to sit here and preach that we were going to come third when I think | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
that our message is going out there consistently. What I think we need | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
to do is engage with the electorate because as far as I'm concerned, any | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
people do not even know when the election is going to be and are not | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
even capable of naming the MEP. That is the contradiction. The result | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
this chat about Europe but people do not know the basic points. Should | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
Labour rethink the whole strategy in terms of offering a referendum? No. | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
We have a clear position which basically says that if the treaty | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
changes, we would... But that is the government's position. It is our | :20:24. | :20:34. | |
position. The difference between our position and the government's | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
position is one where we are very clear about the way in which, | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
through negotiation with our European partners, Europe needs to | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
change. For instance, the ECB becoming a growth bank, and new | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
focus on grog creation -- job creation that the single market can | :20:55. | :21:01. | |
bring to the member countries. If you do not hold a referendum, how | :21:02. | :21:09. | |
will you put any pressure on the European partners? Having negotiated | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
a lot in Europe, that is the last way that anybody listens to you. If | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
you go around issuing threats, flying to Berlin or wherever else it | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
would be, and coming home and announcing Europe, basically the | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
other member states will turn their back on you. You have to do it by | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
engaged negotiation. And that is what we will do. If you look at the | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
polls, the Lib Dems looked as if they are going to perform extremely | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
badly. That must be a realistic worry for the party. There is not an | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
violation, but it is pretty derisory. The polls do not look good | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
but as has been pointed out, let's wait until we see the results. Can | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
pick up on the point about Angela Merkel? Tessa is absolutely right. | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
You make progress in Europe by engagement. That is why the fact | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
that the Conservatives withdrew from the Conservative group still rankles | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
among others with Angela Merkel. the Conservative group still rankles | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
among others with When she came to the House of Commons and address to | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
both Houses of Parliament or maybe other day, it was clear that she | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
supports reform but not reform which has the effect of undermining the | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
principles upon which the European Union is based. No treaty change, | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
because it would inevitably legally require... Allow me to finish. | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
Treaty change would require unanimity. And that is a matter | :22:33. | :22:42. | |
where the 28 countries... The indication is that it would not | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
happen. Precisely. You are the party of Ian, clearly and proudly. Why not | :22:47. | :22:51. | |
have a referendum? As we said in the coalition agreement, if there is any | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
transfer of powers from London to Brussels, which affects the | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
constitutional nature of the relationship, the should be a | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
referendum and I'm pleased to see that that is the position adopted by | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
the Labour Party. What about the debates with Nigel Farage? Was it | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
worth while for Nick Clegg? A move to nothing in the polls and he was | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
deemed to have lost. There are several views about that. Let's | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
stick to the purpose of these debates which was to set out that in | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
this extensive debate about Europe, the Liberal Democrats are on about | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
Lee and unashamedly the most pro-European of the parties. Since | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
that was the accusation that was made against us, it was a great deal | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
of political sense to say that of course we these are the reasons why. | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
3 million jobs, the fact that politically the more unity in | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
Europe, against the possibility of reserve and Russia, the better it | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
will be for the United Kingdom. I want to bring your attention to the | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
YouGov Paul. 43% of people said they would vote to stay. -- YouGov poll. | :23:55. | :24:00. | |
36% of people said they would leave. Despite the fact that you may be | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
riding high in the polls, when it comes to the big question, you are | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
losing. We will see on May the 22nd. But on that question, when people | :24:10. | :24:11. | |
are asked specifically, But on that question, when people | :24:12. | :24:36. | |
are many people living there. I think the | :24:37. | :24:36. | |
are many people living there. I pretty much roadkill under the UKIP | :24:37. | :24:36. | |
battle bus already and we for labour because we think that if | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
we could beat Labour, for labour because we think that if | :24:43. | :24:48. | |
proposition that he proposed to fight the general election on, to | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
ask the people to trust him but not the people. The point here is that | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
at home, whether the people. The point here is that | :24:59. | :24:58. | |
people's principal focus is not on the people. The point here is that | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
Europe. People's principal focus is on fear emigration, fairer welfare | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
and the kind of changes that on fear emigration, fairer welfare | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
their children a better chance in the future. The practical thing is | :25:11. | :25:10. | |
that the British people have not the future. The practical thing is | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
a vote on the European Union for 40 years and it has changed a | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
a vote on the European Union for 40 relationship from the Conservative | :25:24. | :25:24. | |
Party. I'm going to leave it there. relationship from the Conservative | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
What is in store. It is back to work for the MPs but it is not just | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
clocking on. The government's help to work scheme just a | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
the long-term unemployed find jobs. Tuesday heralds a copyright when | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
the long-term unemployed find jobs. will continue a debate on the | :25:46. | :25:45. | |
the long-term unemployed find jobs. brings a chance to let off steam | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
with the return of PMQs. Joining us from college green, Jason Groves | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
from the Daily Mail and a representative from the New | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
Statesman. Let's look at the work programme. Is it working? Certainly, | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
fewer people are unemployed than Labour were saying might be a couple | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
of years ago. The labour market appears to be a good news story for | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
the government in headline terms. Labour will say that too many of | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
those people are in insecure work or part-time | :26:27. | :26:26. | |
those people are in insecure work or more jobs. In terms of how much of | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
those people are in insecure work or that is to do with government policy | :26:32. | :26:31. | |
and how much is to do with an uptake in the | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
moot point. But it seems that Number Ten and the Department for Work and | :26:37. | :26:46. | |
Pensions Ten and the Department for Work and | :26:47. | :26:47. | |
they have a good news story to tell on welfare and jobs and they have | :26:48. | :26:47. | |
Labour on the defensive will stop on welfare and jobs and they have | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
think the figures, which showed that the money spent had not produced the | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
think the figures, which showed that that the work programme got off to a | :27:05. | :27:15. | |
great start. that the work programme got off to a | :27:16. | :27:15. | |
sound. The idea of helping more people back into work. Encouraging | :27:16. | :27:27. | |
them to get out and get experience of work, find out | :27:28. | :27:27. | |
them to get out and get experience to see why anybody is against that | :27:28. | :27:35. | |
idea. Let's move on to Cyril Smith. There's been | :27:36. | :27:35. | |
idea. Let's move on to Cyril Smith. much damage to the Liberal | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
Democrats? It is obviously not great when a senior | :27:44. | :27:43. | |
Democrats? It is obviously not great horrendous crimes. They are terrible | :27:44. | :27:52. | |
Democrats? It is obviously not great allegations and it is a small party. | :27:53. | :27:52. | |
The suspicion is that allegations and it is a small party. | :27:53. | :27:52. | |
it. Although I think that the allegations and it is a small party. | :27:53. | :28:01. | |
issue here is going to turn into a question of who | :28:02. | :28:01. | |
issue here is going to turn into a justice system, when the result one | :28:02. | :28:01. | |
big and important. justice system, when the result one | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
generally say to victims, frankly, you have no chance against this big | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
figure, and there's nothing you can do? That is where the | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
figure, and there's nothing you can There is a sense that if the | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
individual is part of the centre of the party, they are immune from | :28:22. | :28:28. | |
things that they should not be immune from. Do you think it is | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
right to pursue these cases because it is what the public would like to | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
CQ magnet is it is what the public would like to | :28:38. | :28:37. | |
and more about the victims. Allegedly, Cyril Smith has a | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
significant number of victims who deserve justice. In terms of the Lib | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
significant number of victims who Dems, Tim Farron has come out and | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
said that they have serious Dems, Tim Farron has come out and | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
questions to answer and I cannot put better than that. They should answer | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
them. Looking at UKIP, while they are riding high in the polls, there | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
is still bad publicity. Any publicity is good publicity for a | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
party positioning themselves as the insurgent against | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
party positioning themselves as the There are specious elements of that | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
party positioning themselves as the goes Nigel Farage is public school | :29:14. | :29:18. | |
educated and a former city trader, so how antiestablishment can he be? | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
That if you are being attacked by the mainstream press and the other | :29:24. | :29:23. | |
parties, the mainstream press and the other | :29:24. | :29:29. | |
save that all the people you despise are against us so by extension, you | :29:30. | :29:36. | |
are on our side. The big question is are against us so by extension, you | :29:37. | :29:36. | |
whether this is coming up in the run-up to a Parliamentary election | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
-- run-up to a Parliamentary election | :29:41. | :29:40. | |
which is traditionally a free hit against the incumbents. Will | :29:41. | :29:46. | |
which is traditionally a free hit Peter out when you come towards the | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
general election next May? For the time being, as long as | :29:52. | :29:51. | |
general election next May? For the noise and light and heat generated | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
around UKIP, that plays to Nigel Farage's advantage. Thank you both. | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
Menzies Campbell, let's talk about the Cyril Smith | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
Menzies Campbell, let's talk about your party. You have been in | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
Menzies Campbell, let's talk about your party. You have party for | :30:10. | :30:09. | |
Menzies Campbell, let's talk about suspicions? I was not. Not until | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
Menzies Campbell, let's talk about allegations and suspicions that have | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
emerged. I think what is clear is that there were a variety of | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
institutions who may or may not, because these are allegations, have | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
played some part. That is why it seems that the only rational | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
played some part. That is why it proceed is to allow the police to | :30:31. | :30:30. | |
continue with their enquiries. You proceed is to allow the police to | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
will be aware that there was a press conference taking place today in | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
which the police have their enquiries are now being | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
extended to consider whether a not was any form of corruption in | :30:47. | :30:46. | |
Rochdale town council in relation to the way in which it handled | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
Rochdale town council in relation to that is the right way to proceed. | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
But before I'd finish, that is the right way to proceed. | :31:00. | :30:59. | |
allegations and they deserve to be seriously investigated. If young | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
people have been seriously investigated. If young | :31:05. | :31:04. | |
improper behaviour of the kind we are discussing, then that is | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
improper behaviour of the kind we matter for me at least, of | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
considerable progress. What about the party's reputation as a | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
consequence of these allegations and who knew what other time? Well, it | :31:16. | :31:23. | |
does not help stop but as was pointed out objectively by the two | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
independent voices here from those two journalist is, people are | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
independent voices here from those concerned about it, but they are | :31:31. | :31:33. | |
more concerned about the bigger issues. So long as there is an | :31:34. | :31:35. | |
indication of a serious attempt to establish the truth, I believe that | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
will have the effect, not of staving off responsibility, but of showing | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
that the Liberal Democrats, and indeed the police and any other | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
organisations involved in indeed the police and any other | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
matter, are taking the allegations seriously. I would not take the view | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
some have that because this is seriously. I would not take the view | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
in the past, it should be brushed under the carpet. Of course, for | :31:59. | :32:06. | |
this particular reason, that if you are a victim, the consequences | :32:07. | :32:08. | |
continue long after. Thank you. Now, depending on who you | :32:09. | :32:16. | |
choose to listen to, today's, and is -- Commons vote on the high-speed | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
rail link will either be a resounding vote in favour of HS2 or | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
a sizeable Tory revolt. Actually, it will probably be both. The | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
government will win the vote now that Labour has come out in support | :32:30. | :32:36. | |
of the project, for now. However, various reports suggest that as many | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
as 40 Conservative MPs could if I the party whip and vote against the | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
bill. One of the leading rebels is our guest, Cheryl Gillan. The | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
proposed route for HS2 goes through her constituency of | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
proposed route for HS2 goes through Amersham in the Chilterns. We will | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
get her thoughts in a moment. First, our political correspondent is on | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
College our political correspondent is on | :33:00. | :32:59. | |
your sense of the size of the Conservative revolt? As you say, it | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
depends who you ask. Over the weekend, Radio 4's the world this | :33:05. | :33:12. | |
weekend did a ring round of about that about 30 of them would either | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
vote against the government or abstained. Broadly speaking, that is | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
vote against the government or the ballpark we are talking about. | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
As morning in the lobby briefing for what Mr reports, there was an | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
acknowledgement from Downing Street that there will be some MPs who have | :33:29. | :33:29. | |
engagements elsewhere, who that there will be some MPs who have | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
have found a good excuse not to vote this evening. Six ministers have | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
constituencies among this evening. Six ministers have | :33:41. | :33:41. | |
line for HS2. All six of them have been reluctant to | :33:42. | :33:47. | |
line for HS2. All six of them have The Europe minister is one of them. | :33:48. | :33:47. | |
line for HS2. All six of them have He happens to be in Estonia, quite a | :33:48. | :33:47. | |
useful diary for him. He happens to be in Estonia, quite a | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
fully signed up to HS2, no questions asked? It would seem so. For months | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
on end, Labour appeared asked? It would seem so. For months | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
best about HS2. I kept asked? It would seem so. For months | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
phrase that there would be no blank cheque for the project. He felt the | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
bill was cheque for the project. He felt the | :34:09. | :34:14. | |
further north. They are now a lot warmer | :34:15. | :34:14. | |
them to still use that phrase, no blank cheque, because who would be | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
pro-handing out blank cheques for any project? They have stopped short | :34:18. | :34:25. | |
of saying they are for it, but the costs and the timeline are huge for | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
HS2. 50 billion quid is the bill. costs and the timeline are huge for | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
billion quid just on the trains. So this high-speed turbo-charged Thomas | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
the Tank Engine does not come cheap. More than a bit of loose | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
change. Cheryl Gillan, you have been labelled as chief rouble | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
change. Cheryl Gillan, you have been Before we get onto the politics, can | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
you tell us again come what is your objection to HS2? Firstly, I think | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
this project is completely being at the wrong way round. If you want to | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
improve the north-south divide, which is where it started, you | :35:00. | :35:01. | |
improve the north-south divide, should start looking at it in the | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
north and how you connect the northern cities to each other before | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
you start to connect Birmingham to northern cities to each other before | :35:10. | :35:11. | |
London. This is also an astronomically costly project. It is | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
50 billion at the moment. That does not include the costs for connecting | :35:15. | :35:24. | |
this new, shiny railway into the existing infrastructure. So I think | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
we have gone about it in the wrong way. We are even building it so that | :35:28. | :35:36. | |
it does not connect directly to the Channel Tunnel | :35:37. | :35:36. | |
it does not connect directly to the direct link to Heathrow. Indeed we | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
are building it before we know where direct link to Heathrow. Indeed we | :35:40. | :35:41. | |
our south-east airport capacity is going to be. On the connectivity, | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
why not just connect those northern cities to each other? Because it is | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
the harsh reality that the engine room of the economy is the | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
south-east. If you are a northern city, you may find yourself with the | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
same problems as a neighbouring city. But the way this is to be | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
resolved seems to me by having a greater degree of connectivity. In | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
addition, we know this is not an either/or situation. The government | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
is committed to ?46 billion of investment over the next period to | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
improve these very communications which Cheryl Gillan says are an | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
alternative to HS2. We can have both. Do you accept that your | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
argument has been knocked down? Always beware of politicians saying | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
you can have your cake and eat it. Do you accept that point? Every | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
you can have your cake and eat it. economic study you look at, when you | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
connect smaller cities to the major hub, London in this case, it | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
attracts more business into London. Ming Campbell is right in many | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
ways. London will probably gain more business than the regions. | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
Connecting Birmingham to London first makes that more likely. Even | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
as late as this morning, the Institute of Economic Affairs has | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
come out with a report casting enormous doubts on the business | :37:04. | :37:10. | |
benefits that are claimed for this railway. Cheryl is doing what she | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
has to do, which is fighting like a tiger for her constituents. But I | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
disagree with her. She knows that, and I have disagreed with her ever | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
since HS2 was conceived. But is she wrong? I think she is wrong, because | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
the driver of the UK economy is London. And why the northern | :37:35. | :37:41. | |
neighbours want their cities connected so that the journey to | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
London is quicker is that so that some of that growth impact can be | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
spread. But the important thing now about HS2 is, we have got the best | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
people running this. David about HS2 is, we have got the best | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
has been right through the project. There has been a assurance on the | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
costs. There has been assurance on the scope. Now the most important | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
thing for this is certainty. And certainty across parties that | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
between now and 2026, this line is going to be built. Except that it is | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
not done and dusted. How many rebels are there 's eye don't know. To put | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
a number would be dangerous. Going are there 's eye don't know. To put | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
against your party's policy is a big are there 's eye don't know. To put | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
thing. I am not a natural rebel. But I am convinced. The point is, let's | :38:35. | :38:43. | |
put this in perspective. We are asking the taxpayer and the public | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
to spend the largest amount of money asking the taxpayer and the public | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
on any project that any government has spent in living memory. The | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
government has already suppressed the reports into it which would show | :38:57. | :38:56. | |
government has already suppressed the risks. If you are going | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
this, the government should have published those reports and shown | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
this, the government should have how they deal with the risks. If | :39:07. | :39:06. | |
this, the government should have Tessa is right and I | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
although I don't think it is black and white, those reports should have | :39:14. | :39:13. | |
been out there. But had a twin track approach. I have | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
tried to persuade my government that I think there are better ways of | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
spending this sort of money on projects that bring wider benefits. | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
But if it is going to go ahead, for goodness sake, let us protect our | :39:31. | :39:36. | |
environment and let us compensate those people whose lives and | :39:37. | :39:37. | |
businesses are affected. Today's Guardian reports that you are | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
backing new proposals for a 15 mile tunnel through the Chilterns, which | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
is your backyard. I am on board for proper compensation. I don't know if | :39:50. | :40:01. | |
I am on board for the tunnel. But I am in favour of disproportionate | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
attention to the people who are most disrupted. That was the essence of | :40:06. | :40:16. | |
keeping to time on the Olympics. Our engineer that has been working on | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
the tunnelling proposals is somebody who has worked with David Higgins, | :40:23. | :40:30. | |
who did do a good job on the Olympics. He | :40:31. | :40:30. | |
who did do a good job on the engineering team has come up with | :40:31. | :40:33. | |
this because it is important that we protect a nationally designated | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
site. Would you be on board for HS2 protect a nationally designated | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
with the tunnel? I will always be a sceptic about this project, I'm | :40:43. | :40:42. | |
afraid. But if it is going to go ahead, that is what democracy is | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
about, then I want the best deal for our environment. If you like, that | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
about, then I want the best deal for could be enough to bring you some | :40:54. | :40:55. | |
way on board. I am not unreasonable. But is the tactic now | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
a delay in one? Is the idea that you bogged down the whole process? It | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
will not be completely signed off until the next Parliament. This has | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
never been a question about destructive politics. Over the next | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
two days, we will set up a hybrid Bill committee. There is a | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
petitioning process which is arcane and very complicated. I will try | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
petitioning process which is arcane guide people through it. We will try | :41:27. | :41:31. | |
and make guide people through it. We will try | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
petitioners to the hybrid Bill committee to make changes to what | :41:37. | :41:36. | |
the government is proposing to committee to make changes to what | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
the best possible deal. That could go on the two or three years. You | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
say that support is certain from Labour. Is it unconditional? Has the | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
blank cheque caveat disappeared? And if Labour were to win the next | :41:48. | :41:51. | |
election, would they support it? Yes. It is important that that | :41:52. | :41:58. | |
certainty exists. It is also important, to take Cheryl's point, | :41:59. | :42:06. | |
that every single one of these public pounds works much harder. | :42:07. | :42:16. | |
40,000 jobs, apprenticeships, and to take the point about building | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
vibrancy into the cities rather than sucking out growth potential, that | :42:22. | :42:27. | |
also has to be done. You can't rest everything on this project, but this | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
project unlocks potential that will never be realised without it. What | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
about the opposition in Labour boroughs in London? What do you say | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
to people in Camden, who do not want HS2 because of the disruption? I | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
have talked to David Higgins about this. I think the HS2 team have got | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
to be closely engaged with Camden on mitigation and compensation and | :42:53. | :42:59. | |
moving quickly where families are faced with the prospect of having to | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
sell their homes when house prices all around are going up and so | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
forth. There will always be winners and losers. There will always be | :43:10. | :43:16. | |
disruption. The alternative is to say, we are never going to renew our | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
industry. It has to be handled in a sensitive way. The environment large | :43:19. | :43:23. | |
and is, in my view, are extremely persuasive. But we should remind | :43:24. | :43:27. | |
ourselves of what the benefits would be. The number of seats leaving used | :43:28. | :43:35. | |
and go from 11,300 in the peak hour to a map of central capacity of | :43:36. | :43:37. | |
35,000. The number of trains leaving Euston go from 16 to 30 per hour. | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
Just think of the impact. Remember, the most overcrowded lines in London | :43:44. | :43:51. | |
are not going into Euston, those are the least. | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
Now, back to those European elections. This morning, it was the | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
turn of the Green Party to launch their campaign, unveiling their | :43:59. | :44:02. | |
manifesto, they have made some eye-catching pledges, promising to | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
scrap tuition fees, renationalise the railways and put in place a | :44:07. | :44:12. | |
living wage. They are hoping this platform will help them treble their | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
living wage. They are hoping this number of MEPs to six. Here is their | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
leader, Natalie Bennett, explaining earlier what makes the Greens | :44:20. | :44:23. | |
different. When voters vote Green, they get green. We don't just | :44:24. | :44:23. | |
different. When voters vote Green, highlight the problems, we provide | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
lasting solutions. So this is an election about choice. There are | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
three choices. There is the politics of fear. That is UKIP. There is the | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
politics of this as usual. That is the three currently largest parties. | :44:39. | :44:43. | |
Or there is the politics of hope, which is the politics of the Green | :44:44. | :44:50. | |
Party. The Green Party offers real change that improves the life of | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
everyone, real change for the common good. And the leader of the Greens, | :44:56. | :45:06. | |
magically, is with us now. You said you were planning to fight the | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
elections as the anti-UKIP party. What does that mean? It means that | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
we are the party that is standing up to UKIP, saying that | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
we are the party that is standing up tackle this dangerous race to the | :45:22. | :45:24. | |
bottom in terms of immigration rhetoric. The largest parties have | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
been chasing UKIP, trying to out UKIP UKIP. We need to try to stand | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
up to them and say it is dangerous and damaging. It needs to stop, in | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
terms of and damaging. It needs to stop, in | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
change is real and we need to take action. The Green voters and UKIP | :45:42. | :45:41. | |
voters are not the same people. action. The Green voters and UKIP | :45:42. | :45:51. | |
are not battling for the same boat. But we are seeing them, for example | :45:52. | :45:56. | |
a man in Manchester last week who said he did not want to touch | :45:57. | :45:56. | |
politics because it was such a mess, but now after the | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
politics because it was such a UKIP, he says he cannot sit on the | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
fence any more. If someone is concerned about immigration | :46:07. | :46:06. | |
fence any more. If someone is effect of the European Union on the | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
UK, they will effect of the European Union on the | :46:14. | :46:13. | |
think when you talk to people, if you say | :46:14. | :46:22. | |
think when you talk to people, if about? People are concerned about | :46:23. | :46:22. | |
low wages and that is a failure of government policy. The minimum wage | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
is not enforced. There housing, which is a failure of | :46:29. | :46:28. | |
policy. There is an issue with housing, which is a failure of | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
crowded schools and hospitals. When you talk to people and I'm picked | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
their concerns, often they are not concerned about immigration. It | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
their concerns, often they are not because society is not working for | :46:42. | :46:41. | |
their concerns, often they are not the common good. Let's look at these | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
policies. Scrapping tuition fees and the common good. Let's look at these | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
prescription fees, renationalising the | :46:52. | :46:51. | |
prescription fees, renationalising Introducing a living wage. How much | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
will that cost? If we take those, winning the railways back into | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
public hands, which Caroline Lucas has before the house, it does not | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
cost anything. You wait for the operating contracts to lapse. And | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
cost anything. You wait for the it now runs. If you take tuition | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
fees, you look at the fact that as people to pay back loans that they | :47:17. | :47:23. | |
do not burn the money to pay back has | :47:24. | :47:23. | |
do not burn the money to pay back the money. We need to get companies | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
do not burn the money to pay back You would increase income taxes? | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
Very much for the wealthiest. The policies in 2010, we had a fully | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
costed manifesto. 95% of people were better out. The 50p tax rate started | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
at ?100,000. Is that what it is going to be? We will be doing the | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
figures for another costed manifesto in 2015 and I would expect | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
figures for another costed manifesto rate of tax will be higher than 50%. | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
Although rate of tax will be higher than 50%. | :47:56. | :47:56. | |
would not get the sort of money and rate of tax will be higher than 50%. | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
revenue that Labour said he would rate of tax will be higher than 50%. | :48:02. | :48:02. | |
get under 50p for incomes of ?150,000. White Dee me | :48:03. | :48:11. | |
get under 50p for incomes of their money from. Do they draw | :48:12. | :48:19. | |
get under 50p for incomes of my colleague on my right is that if | :48:20. | :48:19. | |
get under 50p for incomes of you are going to do well and aspire | :48:20. | :48:19. | |
to improve your session, you are going to do well and aspire | :48:20. | :48:27. | |
UK, do not do it under the Green you are going to do well and aspire | :48:28. | :48:32. | |
Party. We under national policies. I'd | :48:33. | :48:33. | |
appreciate that the Green Party is supporting me against HS2. However, | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
I am afraid that cannot subscribe to anything you are saying. This | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
election is about offering people a choice on Europe and I do not think | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
you do that. You are in favour of an in-out referendum? We do. | :48:49. | :48:50. | |
you do that. You are in favour of an in democracy and if it is good | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
enough for the Scots it is good in democracy and if it is good | :48:55. | :48:54. | |
enough for the rest of us. in democracy and if it is good | :48:55. | :49:04. | |
would campaign to stay in Europe. But | :49:05. | :49:04. | |
would campaign to stay in Europe. are against the free trade deal. It | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
is absolutely disastrous for democracy and absolutely disastrous | :49:08. | :49:09. | |
in terms of the situation where US governments can sue the EU. I'm glad | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
we got to that. When I was reviewing the green policies, that once | :49:17. | :49:19. | |
we got to that. When I was reviewing out. Is it argued that it is against | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
the interests of the United Kingdom to enter into a free trade with | :49:26. | :49:26. | |
the interests of the United Kingdom North America? I mean, it is | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
extraordinary. I'm fascinated by the notion that you can renationalise | :49:30. | :49:37. | |
the railways and it will not cost anything. What about the running | :49:38. | :49:38. | |
costs thereafter? Will pick these up? The taxpayer does now. And the | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
costs thereafter? Will pick these other point, I understand that the | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
Greens rejected any question of a reduction in the EU budget. At a | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
time when everyone agrees that there is an element of redundancy in the | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
budget and that it should be reduced. In order to ensure that we | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
get value from money. No value for money? There are a lot of issues | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
there. The free-trade deal is the most important. First of all, | :50:05. | :50:06. | |
there. The free-trade deal is the focus on the fact that negotiations | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
are being conducted in secrecy. MEPs are not being told about that. If | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
that is the case, why can we not do this democratically? We're talking | :50:18. | :50:20. | |
about harmonisation of regulations. In the US, you can wash chicken | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
carcasses in bleach and sell them In the US, you can wash chicken | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
the public. That is against EU In the US, you can wash chicken | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
rules. Beef and other meat laced in hormones are sold in the US. | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
European governments could be hormones are sold in the US. | :50:36. | :50:36. | |
if they create regulations to protect the public. This is the way | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
that negotiations are carried on in private. Able make that kind of | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
point in public. The public should not know about these things? They | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
will be eventually presented with a package that contains the details. | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
will be eventually presented with a grandstanding which we have just | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
seen. And you want to go from two to six? A swing to 2% would allow us to | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
trouble the number of MEPs. Hands up who knows who their MEP is. | :51:05. | :51:06. | |
Anyone? Anyone? It's fair to say that this side | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
of the channel our views of the European project have always | :51:11. | :51:13. | |
been a tad cooler than those BBC online has been going back over | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
the archives looking at our often tempestuous | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
relationship with the European project, and they're putting some | :51:21. | :51:22. | |
gems up on their website. # Not, not common market, not common | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
market scum. More results since we have come on | :51:26. | :52:11. | |
the air. Yes is showing at city 7% and the no vote at 33%. We not | :52:12. | :52:19. | |
asking the community money, it is asking the community to have our own | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
money back. We wanted at the European Parliament to be the | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
democratic body of the community. We wanted the commission to be the | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
executive and he wanted a council of ministers to be the Senate. No, no, | :52:33. | :52:42. | |
no. The government has concluded that Britain's best interest is | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
served by suspending our membership with the exchange rate mechanism. | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
What people are saying is get Britain out. Watch the Portuguese | :52:53. | :53:00. | |
Prime Minister's lips as he greets Mr Miliband? The Prime Minister is | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
on his way as we speak. He is not locked away. | :53:06. | :53:19. | |
That is known as the political culture order. Good to see Gordon | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
Brown rocked up eventually. If that whetted your attitude, -- appetite, | :53:25. | :53:32. | |
check out our politics section where you can access the material like | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
that which you have seen. We're joined now | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
by the Daily Mail's sketchwriter What does that mean? It is French, | :53:42. | :53:53. | |
you know. A YouGov poll recently found that 95% of the British public | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
could not name the MEPs representing their area. Whose fault is that? I | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
think it is the fault of the system. Possibly. I was thinking, as I was | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
walking along here today, do I know mine? Anthea McIntire I think. Do | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
not think it is the fault of the individuals. If it was the | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
individual's fault, we would no more of them. There would be more | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
exceptional people doing it. I think it is the fact that they do not have | :54:22. | :54:28. | |
obvious powers. Also, the fact that they sit in Brussels. Perhaps it is | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
the fault of the press. Perhaps we ought to report from Brussels more. | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
And I'm told you are right on your MEP. Well done. Congratulations. You | :54:37. | :54:43. | |
are in the 5%. There is this contradiction... It would be | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
worrying if I did not know! There is a contradiction. We top about Europe | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
and if an item but no one knows their MEP. Why? I have only ever | :54:52. | :54:56. | |
done two sketches for the mail from Brussels. It was a terrific route to | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
go there. It makes for lots of Tamil. Rich pickings! Perhaps it is | :55:04. | :55:10. | |
our fault. Why do not go more? Because it costs a bit of money and | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
there is a limit as to how many jokes you can make about blokes | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
speaking Polish. Perhaps that is the reason. We are to be more involved | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
in the minutiae. I do not see many readers leaping around as a result | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
of that. What is it about the European elections that leave the | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
electorate called? Be quite enjoy the chants -- they quite enjoy the | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
chance to cast a vote that does not matter so much. That is why UKIP is | :55:40. | :55:42. | |
doing so well at the moment because it may be a chance to show a protest | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
against the other parties. And why are the elections, local and the EU | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
elections, attracting, how can I put it, more colourful characters? I | :55:54. | :55:58. | |
believe is for standing in the European election if they are going | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
to get a ?175,000 payoff the matter what happens? What a scandal. I hope | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
you will try to whip up opposition to that. But I think that the | :56:06. | :56:11. | |
elections, at general election time, the loonies tend to get drawn to the | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
Prime Minister or the leader of the opposition seats. Tony Blair's seat | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
in the old days, there was always a bloke that looked like Boss Hogg. | :56:22. | :56:24. | |
And now he turns up in Witney, and who knows where he might go next. | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
They go where the media is. Do you have a favourite colourful figure? | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
David Icke once stood against David Davis, and he had a press conference | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
which was an otherworldly event. If you remember, he was convinced we | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
were all aliens. That was a party that once stood, they were called | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
let's throw a blancmange down Terry Wogan's underpants party. Pamela | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
Stephenson was there as a candidate. I think she lost. Great material! It | :56:56. | :57:03. | |
was so stupid that it brings the election process into disrepute. As, | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
arguably, does the rope turnout in some of these European elections. I | :57:08. | :57:13. | |
think that Quentin is onto something. In that these are not | :57:14. | :57:22. | |
elections that engage real voters with the things that most matters. | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
They do not feel a sense of urgency. They do not feel compelled | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
to go out and vote except to register a protest against the | :57:31. | :57:38. | |
established politics that they feel. And that is why it is a rebuke to | :57:39. | :57:48. | |
all of us. The fact that you cannot honestly, from everything we have | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
heard this morning and read, and Cheryl is absolutely right about | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
this, the people who say they are going to vote UKIP, the people I | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
have met canvassing, they are angry. They do not know anything much about | :58:02. | :58:06. | |
what UKIP stands for. And that could be dangerous. It is a good gate, as | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
Quentin says. A terrific cake. Nick Clegg, of course, was a famous MEP. | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
He was there for some time and made a substantial contribution. But Tess | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
is onto something, this question that being a rebuke to all us. There | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
was just time before we go to find out the answer to the quiz. | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
The question was how long would Nick Clegg like to serve as Deputy PM? | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
On and on. No, it is until 2020. Anyway, I'm going to say thank you | :58:35. | :58:48. | |
to all our guests. He is feeling bad now. On that age over experience, | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
thank you very much. Goodbye. BBC Radio 5 live | :58:55. | :59:08. | |
is where news comes to life. And this week on 5 live Breakfast, | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
we're travelling across the UK to explore the stories | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
that matter to you. | :59:17. | :59:19. |