Browse content similar to 08/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. The Skull Cracker is | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
back behind bars but why was this violent criminal in an open prison | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
and allowed out on day release? Four big retailers and a major | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
restaurant chain have confirmed that they sell some halal meat without it | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
being labelled as such. Should we be told? | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
18 months after Lord Justice Levenson published his inquiry into | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
the culture and practices of the press, are we any closer to a deal | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
on regulating the press? We speak to a former Fleet Street editor. And | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
Indian mangoes are a former Fleet Street editor. And | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
best in the world so why has the EU banned them? | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
We speak to a top chef who said the ban needs to be listed lifted. All | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
that in the next hour. With us for the programme is Tony Gallagher, the | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
former editor of the Daily Telegraph, soon to return to his | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
former employer the Daily Mail. Welcome to the show. The so-called | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
Skull Cracker is back behind bars, a relief for everyone. Michael | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
Wheatley had been given 13 life sentences and was caught by police | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
yesterday following a raid on a building society in London. He had | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
absconded from an open prison in Kent on Saturday. The case has | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
started a political debate around the treatment of violent criminals, | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
with questions being asked about why Michael Wheatley was in an open | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
prison and subject today release. Attempts to reduce the prison | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
population mean that almost all criminals given custodial sentences | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
are eligible to be released after serving half their terms. But | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
Justice Secretary Chris Grayling said this week that early release | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
rules were undermining public trust in the criminal justice system. He | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
told MPs that in an ideal world, ten years would mean ten years. So could | :02:39. | :02:45. | |
the issue become an election battle ground? Reports suggest the | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
Conservatives will include plans to reform key parts of the criminal | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
justice system in their manifesto. Under the plans, offenders would no | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
longer be automatically eligible for release, but would have to earn that | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
right through good behaviour, and by taking part in rehabilitation | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
programmes. So are the proposals a good idea and could being tough on | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
crime be a vote winner all the parties at the general election? I | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
am joined by Conservative MP Nick Gibb and hopefully by Juliet Lyon | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
from the Prison Reform Trust. I understand traffic is causing a | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
problem for our guests. Well done for making it into the studio but | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
you have not got to come very far. First of all, your reaction. In | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
terms of hearing the news that somebody like Michael Wheatley was | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
in an open prison and on day release. I have an open prison in my | :03:42. | :03:51. | |
constituency. I am always struck by how many life sentence prisoners | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
there are in it. I don't think it is right for convicted murderers, | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
people with a violent background, to be sent to open prisons | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
automatically. At all? The Government is reviewing the | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
conditions that apply for early release and transfer to open | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
prisons. I hope as part of that review they will consider toughening | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
up those conditions. I do question whether somebody with a history of | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
violence is right to be sent to an open prison because when they do | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
abscond, and I have had two people absconding from an open prison last | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
year, one of whom has been recaptured and the other hasn't, and | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
it does undermine local confidence in having an open prison in your | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
community. Lots of the prisons are in Laurel, small communities and you | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
need the support of people living nearby for the prisons to remain. | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
You are astonished by the high numbers of violent offenders who are | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
in open prisons. But Michael Wheatley was an release on temporary | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
licence, which are granted to prisoners to help them settle back | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
into the community at the end of their sentences and he is just one | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
case. When you look at the figures of another person committing a | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
further offence while on release on temporary licence, it is still very | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
small. It was just 0.005%, which does not tally with your feeling | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
there being a large number of these types of violent offenders. There | :05:19. | :05:29. | |
were 200 abscondings last year. It is 20 if you extrapolate that to | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
Ford prison. These high profile cases alarm the public and that is | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
my concern. There is no doubt that high profile cases alarm the public | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
but is it the right thing to do to try and stop violent offenders when | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
they come to the end of their sentence and they are considered | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
eligible for day release? Should it be reviewed? Should they get that | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
right? Clearly something has gone wrong because the Skull Cracker | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
should not have been considered for early release and should not have | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
been sent to an open prison in the first place. He has inadvertently | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
done us a favour because he exposes the myth that people go down for | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
long terms and remain in jail for long terms. I suspect what we need | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
is some honesty in the sentencing policy going forward so when it says | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
ten years it means ten years and people can have trust in the system. | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
Why has the Government is not done anything to make the sentences mean | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
what they say? Chris Grayling is talking the talk but he is not | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
walking the walk. They have toughened up but this Government is | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
constrained. If you talk to any Conservative, they want tougher | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
sentences and honesty but the constraint has been the state of the | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
public finances. There is huge pressure within the Conservative | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
Party to have much more honest sentencing. Because it is wrong. | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
When you hear a judge handing down a ten year sentence and you calculate | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
that he will be out in five, it is almost hoodwinking the public in | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
terms of the severity of the sentence being passed down. Do you | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
think the Government has done enough? I don't but they have been | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
hamstrung by judicial discretion. There was the case of an old age | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
pensioner knocked down by a single punch. The four year jail term meted | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
out to the attacker was considered adequate, despite the fact that many | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
people would feel that man should have gone to prison for a great deal | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
longer. Judicial discretion means that ministers are hamstrung to some | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
extent. They have done some things but the idea that ten years will | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
mean ten years, Chris Grayling will have a very hard time enacting that | :07:35. | :07:40. | |
policy. He has asked the Council to review it sentences for | :07:41. | :07:43. | |
manslaughter. That shows the direction of travel this Government | :07:44. | :07:59. | |
is taking. But if you are saying judicial discretion, are you saying | :08:00. | :08:01. | |
that shouldn't exist? Do we want a public vote on these things? For | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
political decisions to make them? That is dangerous. If we had public | :08:05. | :08:06. | |
voting, people would be hanged and drawn. The fact is that Chris | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
Grayling has a hard time convincing judges of the things he wants to do. | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
Quite often he can insist on something and have it overridden by | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
the Court of Appeal or Europe. But that the battle over mandatory life | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
sentences remaining mandatory and people being locked away forever. It | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
only replies to a very tiny number of people, the very worst offenders | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
in society, but there is a battle royal row over that in Europe at the | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
moment. Let's talk about Nick Clegg's report that he has written | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
today. He says a six-month sentence sounds tough but it is too harsh for | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
possession of a penknife, albeit possession of that knife for a | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
second time. Is he wrong? It is a question of judgement. We need tough | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
sentences for serious issues. What about possession of a penknife? It | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
can be. The case of a teacher being stabbed in school, why was that | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
people carrying a knife? Did he search for the knife in the school? | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
We need to send a clear message for society that carrying a sharp knife | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
with a view to committing a violent offence is a serious matter and we | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
should have tough sentences for these issues. Thank you. | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
The development of shale gas, which is extracted using the controversial | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
process of fracking, should be an urgent national priority. The House | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
of Lords Economic Affairs Committee has backed the Government's | :09:36. | :09:38. | |
commitment to shale gas, but says progress is being held back by | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
complex rules. Lord MacGregor chairs the Economic Affairs Committee and | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
joins me now. Why is it an urgent priority? Because the risks of not | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
going ahead as fast as we can very much greater than the very small | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
amount of risk involved in fracking. If we don't go ahead, we will not | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
get all the advantages that the American economy has had with | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
raising shale gas and oil. We have a real risk of energy in security. | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
Security problems of getting energy from Russia and elsewhere in an area | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
of the world which is pretty dangerous. The security risks | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
long-term of that supply of gas drying up a very great for us. There | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
are huge benefits to the public as a whole. The energy price, the effect | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
of shale gas and oil, industry will benefit, the environment will | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
benefit. The benefits are huge but the problem is that at the moment we | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
are being delayed by too many organisations having different | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
deadlines. The regulatory organisations have not got enough | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
coordination so it is difficult for companies to go ahead and do the | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
experimental drilling to see what shale gas we have got. I want to | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
know how far down the line we have gone of fracking to start with but | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
let's talk about the benefits. You talk like you know them already, | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
using America as a comparison. It is clear we are not America in terms of | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
size, scale, and potential damage to the environment and countryside. Is | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
it a fair comparison? I am not making a comparison with America, I | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
am just saying they have got huge benefits already by going ahead so | :11:19. | :11:30. | |
well. The benefits for us would be less than the United States and we | :11:31. | :11:32. | |
don't know until we do experimental drilling, and we have not done any | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
yet, how much potential is there. Some people estimate several decades | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
of gas supply and we have to find out. The benefit is to our | :11:39. | :11:40. | |
industries. America lost lots of energy intensive industries when | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
energy prices were high. Shale gas and oil has allowed these industries | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
to go back to America, with huge employment benefits. There will be | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
benefits with having their supply of our own. The opportunities are great | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
but we are not getting an fast enough to realise them. Why has the | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
exploratory stage not even got under way? You talk about complex | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
difficulties. I don't need to go into the detail but what is the main | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
block even to find out if there is shale gas? It is very complicated | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
for companies to apply for exploratory drilling. Since the | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
embargo on fracking was removed in 2012, we have not yet had an | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
application letter loan approval for experimental drilling. We make | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
proposals for not weakening the regulatory environment, because that | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
is important and we have a very good one, but streamlining it so that | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
companies will know how long it will take to go through the process, so | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
that there is better coordination between the agencies that deal with | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
the different aspects. Thank you for joining us. Marcus Adams has started | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
a campaign group in his local area in Sussex against fracking. Welcome | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
to the programme. You heard the benefits. Lord MacGregor says we | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
have to get on with it. Why do you disagree? I think the priorities | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
expressed in the report from the Lords that was published today are | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
frankly wrong. The primary responsibility should be to protect | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
people's health and the environment because once they are damaged, there | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
is no going back. Any oil and gas in the ground has been there for | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
millions of years and another couple of months waiting at ensuring that | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
we have an appropriate regulatory regime in place, that can be | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
properly monitored, I think is the right priority. You're not against | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
fracking per se, even though you talk about health risks. We heard | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
there that they believe the risks are extremely small. Contamination | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
to the water table, for example, and other environmental concerns. But | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
you are not against fracking in itself? I have to say that the more | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
research I have done, the more concerned I am. I'm very sceptical | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
that fracking can be undertaken safely. There is a wealth of | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
evidence coming out of America from creditable sources, universities, | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
the American Association of Paediatricians, identifying major | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
health risks to people living in proximity to fracking sites. Do | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
those concerns worry you? They would worry me if I was living next door | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
to a fracking site and that is the key difference here. Public opinion | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
has not been mobilised for fracking in a way that means it will take | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
place any time soon. That is partly, I think, because although George | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
Osborne has tried to minimise the tax burden for the firms in | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
question, not nearly enough has been done for local communities. They | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
have been offered a tiny amount of money to consider fracking in their | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
community. I perfectly understand by Chris Adams's concerned about what | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
is happening in his backyard. -- Marcus Adams. The financial | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
inducement is so minimal that why put up with the disruption? And if | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
you did not live in an area where they are possibly going to be | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
drilling for shale gas, would you mind? I don't want it in my back | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
garden and I don't want it in anyone's back garden. In my village | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
it equates to ?25 a head, so derisory. There is no amount of | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
money that could be given to compensate for the catastrophic | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
impact that it would have on the environment. This is in the South | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
Downs National Park, an area of outstanding natural beauty, a very | :15:25. | :15:32. | |
rural environment, and people chose to live there for those reasons. | :15:33. | :15:34. | |
They don't want mass industrialisation on their doorstep. | :15:35. | :15:42. | |
But do they want the lights to go out. This argument of energy | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
security is a myth. We get gas from Russia and Norway and soon the US | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
will start to export gas. It is incredible that any gas removed | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
through Fracking would be sold on the European market to the Germans | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
and French, who currently have a moratorium in place. This is about | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
money for a few people who have invested in this industry, not about | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
energy security. It George Osborne making a mistake by laying so much | :16:15. | :16:19. | |
stock in this being a game changer when it cannot be compared to the | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
kind of benefit that America has seen. It cannot and the idea that it | :16:24. | :16:30. | |
could be a game changer is probably a mistake. The energy firms have | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
been clear that it will not lead to a reduction in the price of your | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
bills. I wish I shared that complacency that we are fine on the | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
point of view of energy security. We know that Russia is frankly a rogue | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
state and if there was a problem in the Middle East, how easy would it | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
be to get supplies. So I think we need to get on with it but the | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
incentives for communities need to be massively upgraded. Literally one | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
mile down the road from where this post site is, the South Downs | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
National Park authority has refused permission for a solar farm. That is | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
a green energy. No one can understand that. The motivation for | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
extracting gas by hydraulic fracturing is about money. It is a | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
few people and mostly foreign financial backers hoping to make a | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
large amount from this. What about the political side, is this a | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
mistake for the Conservatives? I think so. There was an opinion poll | :17:38. | :17:46. | |
that said 74% of people were against changing the trespass laws. And I | :17:47. | :17:57. | |
have always been a Tory supporter. I think for Mr Cameron this could be | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
what the poll tax did for Mrs Thatcher. Is that overstating it? I | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
think it is. It is terrible for the areas where this is happening and | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
there is political damage for a sitting Conservative MP but perhaps | :18:14. | :18:21. | |
not for the country at large. Well Andrew Tyree represents your | :18:22. | :18:23. | |
constituency and he supports Fracking. Will you stand against | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
him? He does support Fracking but in this case he has lodged an | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
objection. He is open about this. He is in favour of Fracking but he is | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
not against high-rise locks but he said he would not want it close to | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
Chichester Cathedral. But perhaps if there was more compensation and it | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
was not in your back yard, would you be objecting in quite the same way | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
as Mac I absolutely would. A lot of people are object to or not because | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
they are ill informed. The Minister for energy has found time to spend a | :19:05. | :19:12. | |
day in Blackpool with this industry and people from the government | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
cannot find time to address the real concerns of people who will be | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
affected by this. And the mechanisms of Fracking, you can only extract | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
oil or gas from a very small radius. So we would need tens of thousands | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
of bees across the country and in that sense everyone is it. So I | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
think it will be a significant political issue in the coming years. | :19:37. | :19:43. | |
But you think it will still go ahead, once the companies have got | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
over the bureaucratic process, whatever those publications are | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
before they can start, do you think it will go ahead at a pace? I do but | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
I think the government has to do a lot more to mobilise public opinion | :19:57. | :20:03. | |
on its side. The process that we saw I just the tip of the iceberg. And | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
when people are mobilised they can stop something happen. So until the | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
government decides to take the battle on public opinion I fear it | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
will be an uphill battle, but I do think it will go ahead. And the -- | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
do you think we will see more widespread protests? I think so. And | :20:23. | :20:30. | |
would I be willing to stand as an MP against it, I absolutely wood. And | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
not just on the anti-fracking ticket, I think people are generally | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
feeling disenfranchised. We had a case recently where West Sussex | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
County Council granted permission to Cuadrilla for exploratory work, | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
completely ignoring overwhelming public opinion against it. | :20:51. | :20:59. | |
As a former editor of the Daily Telegraph, Tony here was one of the | :21:00. | :21:02. | |
key players in the negotiations between the government and the press | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
over how to implement the recommendations of the Leveson | :21:06. | :21:07. | |
Inquiry. But ever since Lord Justice Leveson delivered his conclusions, | :21:08. | :21:09. | |
politicians and journalists have been unable to agree on how to | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
regulate the press without compromising press freedom. Adam | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
Fleming reports. It is the story that keeps on running. How much | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
should the state have to do with the press. Lord Justice Levenson heard | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
from pretty much everyone during his enquiry into the media a couple of | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
years ago. The attitude seems to be utterly cavalier. What does it | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
matter. You are famous you are asking for it. At midnight running | :21:40. | :21:46. | |
down a dark street on my own with ten big men chasing me. And the fact | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
that they had cameras meant that that was legal. But take away the | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
cameras, what have you got. I did not sleep for three nights. You | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
replay everything in your mind thinking, that makes sense. When his | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
final report was published he recommended a new system of | :22:07. | :22:12. | |
oversight. The key thing that papers should continue regulating | :22:13. | :22:14. | |
themselves but with an independent body overseeing them. Cue the | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
political wrangling. After some tortures negotiations involving | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
late-night pizza and Kit Kat, cross-party support coalesced around | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
a Royal Charter, a piece of paper issued by the Queen. It established | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
a recognition panel, a watchdog for the watchdog, if you like. That went | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
down badly with the newspaper industry who sought as a threat to | :22:41. | :22:42. | |
their independence. They pressed ahead in setting up their own | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
regulator which will start work this summer. We are promised it will have | :22:48. | :22:50. | |
more teeth than the old press complaints commission and recently | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
they hired Alan Moses as its first chair. He was the judge in the | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
Solheim murder trial. But some newspapers are not signing up. The | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Guardian, Independent and the Financial Times. The FT said they | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
will set up their own process for handling complaints and crucially, | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
the body is not seeking recognition from the recognition panel | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
established under the Royal Charter. Confused? At times like these we | :23:20. | :23:22. | |
need a guru to explain what it means. The government are currently | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
saying they have no further role in this but will be called upon I'm | :23:28. | :23:30. | |
sure to stand by their pledge and pledges given by all other party | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
leaders, that they will implement Levenson in full. There has to be an | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
independent recognition system so they are headed for a collision of | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
some sort. And if that crashed does happen, the thorny issue of | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
regulating the press will be right back on the front page. | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
Joining me now is former Liberal Democrat MP, Evan Harris, who | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
campaigns for Hacked Off, the group which wants tougher press | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
regulation. And represents the suppress abuse. -- the victims of | :24:07. | :24:23. | |
press abuse. How is IPSO any different? Well the new body will | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
have the power to levy fines of ?1 million. It will have investigative | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
powers and be the most draconian body imaginable for the national | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
newspapers and they will live in fear of it. That is more funny but | :24:40. | :24:53. | |
also shocking. History teaches us, and Levenson said this, every time | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
there has been a scandal, the press say do not worry, we will sort it | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
out, we have got this new thing which will deliver everything that | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
the public want from us. And every time it turns out to be a sham. Lord | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
Levenson said this time, that produced their own thing, keep self | :25:13. | :25:18. | |
regulation, keep politicians out. But there has to be something that | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
says this is not a creature of the industry, it is effective and fair | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
and will provide arbitration and apologies, front-page apologies for | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
front-page libels. IPSO Does none of those things, by its own admission. | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
It will not have the power to direct apologies and everyone in the | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
public, I cannot find anyone who does not think that the regulator | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
should require newspapers when they have got it wrong, to apologise in | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
the same way as the crime was committed. That is what the press | :25:55. | :26:00. | |
would expect of the banks, of doctors, of lawyers. And rightly so. | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
I think Evan Harris has let the cat out of the bag inadvertently. | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
Politicians should not be able to direct the press. He wants to be | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
able to direct front-page apologies. Not me, an independent regulator. It | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
would be more passionate to say that Evan Harris, former Liberal Democrat | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
MP who had a problem with his expenses and was exposed, who is a | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
member of a party involved in the two biggest sex scandals of the year | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
and also represents a party that has no natural supporters on Fleet | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
Street. That has nothing to do with it. Say that to the people but I | :26:48. | :26:58. | |
represent, people who agree with me that there is no change. I was the | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
MP responsible for abolishing the blasphemy law which protects free | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
expression. My point is that you have a direct interest in this and | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
the MPs that wanted the Royal Charter... Let us just clarify and | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
come back to the issue of independence. You can trade insults | :27:19. | :27:29. | |
on both sides. He has slipped into the Daily Mail tactic of going for a | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
personal attack instead of debating the issue. Let us come back to the | :27:33. | :27:46. | |
issue of independence. IPSO, why cannot you seek some kind of | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
independent recognition that would be compliant with Levenson. By not | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
doing that do not play into the arguments being put forward by Evan | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
Harris that you're just going to be the same as the press complaints | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
commission before that, which will not have the trust of the public. | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
The key phrase is freedom of speech. You cannot have anything like a | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
little bit of regulation or a little bit of free speech. Either you have | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
free speech or you do not. There is no fence about incitement to crimes, | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
you said there should be no libel laws. Not at all. You chose to | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
apologise on page two for a full page spread attacking JK Rowling who | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
happened to have given evidence in the Leveson Inquiry. You libelled | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
her, you lost that case, you tried to stop them making a statement in | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
open court. And you buried the apology tucked away on page two. And | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
you want the new regulator to continue to allow that. But in a | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
sense of the system worked, there was an apology there was a fine and | :28:58. | :29:04. | |
they had to admit they were wrong. JK Rowling can afford good lawyers. | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
I'm speaking about ordinary people who dare not take on the press with | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
30 pockets. The press have to answer some serious questions. I pay | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
testament to what Tony did with the story about the MP expenses. Will | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
you now as deputy editor of the Daily Mail give an assurance that no | :29:25. | :29:26. | |
Daily Mail journalist will ever have to sign a gagging clause when they | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
leave the Daily Mail and you will not enforce any debt you have | :29:32. | :29:37. | |
imposed on them so far. I'm not working at the Daily Mail, I cannot | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
speak for them. I no longer read the Daily Telegraph, I am between jobs. | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
There should be gagging clauses in the press. To what end? I do not | :29:47. | :29:53. | |
think they should be. I'm bluntly unaware of such gagging clauses | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
relating to the behaviour of journalists and newspapers. To come | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
back to the press complaints commission. IPSO, it is going to be | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
in the same offices. Do we know how many staff it will have? That is | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
being worked on at the moment. It will be quite substantial, it will | :30:16. | :30:17. | |
be funded by the industry and have very strong powers. Newspapers are | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
frightened of the prospect. There are in mind that the press is | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
already heavily regulated with libel laws, the impact of the bribery act | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
being felt in newsrooms across the country. It did not stop the kind of | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
injustices that was heard during that no enquiry and people still | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
doubt it will be able to prevent a repeat of that. No one is looking to | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
defend what happened to sienna Miller but frankly that is a matter | :30:47. | :30:51. | |
for the police. IPSO, it has the same direct is as the press | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
complaints commission. The same company number, the same premises. | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
The same way of attritional mediation. The only independent | :31:01. | :31:07. | |
review of whether it complies with everything but Lord Levenson | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
wanted, a whole series of things, said it failed on 26 out of 38. It | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
is the press complaints commission all over again. I do not blame the | :31:18. | :31:22. | |
press for wanting to carry on as before. There will not be serving | :31:23. | :31:33. | |
editors on IPSO, the industry being run by the boys in it. Effectively | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
it is, because the appointments committee for IPSO contains Rupert | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
Murdoch's most loyal Lieutenant, the editor of The Times, himself found | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
to be wanting by the courts. Everson said there should be no direct | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
influence of the industry on the appointments. -- Lord Leveson. Why | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
don't you allow this to be inspected and audited by an independent body | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
and given the seal of approval? I think it will be transparent and it | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
will be audited and the work will be open. How? Audited by who? You | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
rightly don't think MPs should audit themselves so why should the press? | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
Without the Guardian and the Financial Times and the Independent | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
signing up to IPSO, doesn't that take away some of its credibility at | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
the beginning? It is less than ideal that the national press is not | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
united behind it. We will see what happens with the Guardian and the | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
Independent. The Financial Times has decided to go its own way, not least | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
for inconsistency. Everybody agreed the Press Complaints Commission | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
failed and it had those newspapers on its side. It has sunk below the | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
water line before it launches. The public will never trust any | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
regulatory system that rejects independent oversight. If you have | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
nothing to hide, why are you fearful of exposing the press regulator to | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
something like what you propose for the other industries that you quite | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
rightly should be holding to account? Isn't there a contradiction | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
there? No. This is not an issue that convulses the public in the way it | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
convulses Hacked Off. You will not tackle this issue in your papers and | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
that is the problem. I am welcoming our viewers in Scotland who have | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
been watching First Minister's Questions now. | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
Thank you. Yesterday, UKIP held an event in London to dispel charges | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
that it is racist. Nigel Farage said that the handful of candidates who | :33:38. | :33:42. | |
said stupid and offensive things did not represent the party and that the | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
event was a pivotal moment. The meeting, designed to highlight | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
UKIP's female, black and ethnic minority candidates, was disrupted | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
several times by protesters. Nigel Farage was in defiant mood. Let this | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
picture of me on the stage with these wonderful men and women from | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
all their different backgrounds and their United believe in being | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
British and being part of this country and wanting this country to | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
be free, independent, self-governing and proud, let this be UKIP's | :34:14. | :34:20. | |
moment. The reason we have taken this abuse over the last few weeks | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
is that for the first time in 100 years, a new, national, political | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
party has come along that has got the establishment rattled. We have | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
got them scared. Nigel Farage there. Joining me now is his right-hand | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
man, deputy leader Paul Nuttall. Welcome to the programme. Why do you | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
think you attract so many people with views that most people would | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
consider unpalatable for a political party and you yourself consider | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
unpalatable for a political party? I don't think we do. Hang on. All | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
political parties attract certain types. Some very strange people | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
indeed. The difference with us is that we deal with the problems that | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
we have. We deal with it swiftly and we kick them out. Only 0.3% of our | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
2350 candidates have been found to have a problem. We have dealt with | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
it. Unfortunately I could not attend the event last night but I have been | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
told it was fantastic. If you have to have an event, and you look at | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
Nigel Farage surrounded by candidates were black and ethnic | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
minority groups, doesn't that suggest there is a problem if you | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
have to make such a big deal about it? The media have made a problem | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
for us probably since 2004. I think it was the Independent that cold as | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
the BNP in blazers. It has continued from there. -- that called us. There | :35:43. | :35:51. | |
is a sitting Conservative that used to be part of the BNP, and a Liberal | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
Democrat being done for racially aggravated assault, and the | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
Conservatives have somebody being done for machete and immigrants. You | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
don't read about this in the newspapers, but if you substituted | :36:04. | :36:11. | |
those words will UKIP it would be front-page news. UKIP should not be | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
so thin-skinned. It is a sign that they are threat the established | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
political class that proper scrutiny is being applied to the candidates | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
for the first time. Their processes have been found wanting and they | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
have a larger number of head-bangers and other parties, which shows that | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
they are a virgin party and it shows that they are being tested and taken | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
seriously in a way they were not previously. I agree, actually. It is | :36:36. | :36:43. | |
about being on the top table. So don't moan. I don't think you can | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
call it scrutiny because it should have an even playing field and it is | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
looking like a witch hunt. The one thing people don't like is seeing | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
the smallest boy in the playground being bullied. It might work in | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
America and Australia but not in this country and it is | :37:00. | :37:02. | |
counter-productive. You have blamed a small lots of people in the party, | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
you have dealt with it, and you say there are similar cases in other | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
parties. It is not just other people on the sidelines of your party. | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
There is this nationalistic use of language. Nigel Farage has said that | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
London is experiencing a Romanian crimewave and people should beware | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
if a Romanian family moves into their street. That is divisive | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
language, isn't it? But it is true. But is it nationalistic language and | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
divisive? It is true. A huge percentage is committed by Romanian | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
gangs. If that is not a crime waves, I don't know what is. Would | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
you say it is xenophobic to make that kind of statement even if you | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
believe it is true? No, it is true. But is it xenophobic? To talk about | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
all nations of people. I am not saying if it is right or wrong. But | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
can you access that even if the Tim Raikes this has not been correctly | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
used, is the party xenophobic about foreigners? -- the term racist has | :38:05. | :38:12. | |
not been correctly used. No. If you look at our policy it is utterly | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
anti-racist. We just want a points -based system for everyone. If you | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
are an Indian brain surgeon it can be very difficult to get into this | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
country but a low skilled migrant from Eastern Europe can come and | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
claim benefits and work willy-nilly. That is not correct. We want a | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
system that provides complete equality, like Australia. A points | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
-based system. If you have the skills that we need, please come and | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
work. It is not racist. Let's talk about the local elections. One of | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
the big things we have talked about is a lack of a base for UKIP. You | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
get headlines for this sort of event and talking about the EU, but you | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
are not breaking through on the bread and butter issues that local | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
people have. You admitted that last time. Has it changed? We had the | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
local election launch this morning. I think UKIP has changed over three | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
years. It has gone from being strictly EU focused to focusing on | :39:09. | :39:15. | |
local Government. In 2013 we got 147 people elected to county councils up | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
and down the country and they are doing a fantastic job and they have | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
the highest attendance record of any political party as counsellors. We | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
are putting more candidates forward than ever before. I think we will | :39:28. | :39:33. | |
get hundreds of councillors elected on May the 22nd. There is an | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
admission from UKIP that they have not made breakthroughs up until now. | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
They have not got enough representation at a local level. Do | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
you think that will change in the local elections this time? We know | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
about the European elections. I think it will. I don't think they | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
will have a single MP in 2015 but if they get the local breakthrough, the | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
danger for the Conservatives will be feet and boots on the ground in 2015 | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
to do enough damage and denied Tory MPs a majority. They will not be a | :40:03. | :40:07. | |
mass force in local Government but they are a dangerous force from the | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
point of view of the Conservatives. Do you think UKIP is a blip? I don't | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
actually. I think it is one of the most interesting political | :40:18. | :40:19. | |
phenomenon is we have seen in recent years. Attacks on Nigel Farage have | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
backfired so spectacular because he is seen as the anti-politics | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
candidate, none of the above. The problem they are having, it is all | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
being ignored by the opinion polls. People want to give a bloody nose to | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
political parties of any stripes, and Nigel Farage effectively | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
represents none of the above. You do need a breakthrough at local | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
elections otherwise it is just Nigel Farage and Hugh, to a lesser extent. | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
And it can't carry on like that. -- and you. We know that local | :40:58. | :41:04. | |
elections are the Trojan Horse for Westminster. Paddy Ashdown was | :41:05. | :41:07. | |
brilliant in the way he demonstrated that. Two thirds of our vote comes | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
from people who don't vote Conservative. We are now taking more | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
votes in the North of England than ever before and we are making | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
serious inroads into the big areas like Liverpool, Manchester and | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
Newcastle. The reason UKIP is so exciting is because we are the | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
outsiders. It is not like the SDP in the early 1980s because they all | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
came from within the establishment and they had all been laboured | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
cabinet ministers. We are the outsiders and we are shaking up | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
British politics. Thank you. Earlier we were talking about the | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
arrest of the so-called Skull Cracker Michael Wheatley and how he | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
was able to abscond again after he was given 13 life sentences for | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
raids on banks and building societies in 2002. He had gone on | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
the run twice in the past, and each time he staged a series of violent | :41:58. | :42:03. | |
robberies, before he was caught and re-jail. He absconded from Stanford | :42:04. | :42:15. | |
Hill Broken -- open prison in Kent. I am now joined by Juliet Lyon from | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
the prison reform traffic. Well done for battling your way through the | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
traffic and making it. Were you surprised to hear that someone like | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
that was in an open prison? No, that is the purpose of open prisons. They | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
are designed for people who have served a serious offence and a | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
seriously long sentence, and the point is that they unable to be -- | :42:37. | :42:44. | |
people to go from a closed world back to society. It is at the end of | :42:45. | :42:55. | |
a long sentence when people readjust and are assessed by staff so I was | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
not surprised. He was considered for parole after eight years despite | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
having 13 life sentences. I don't know his individual case. I think he | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
served something like 12 years, beyond the minimum term that he had | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
been given certainly. 12 or 13, I think. But should violent offenders | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
like murderers and sex offenders be banned from open prison? Is it not a | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
good idea to consider anybody who has considered that -- committed | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
that kind of crime? It is the opposite. You need an open prison | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
system in order for people to come out safely into the community and | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
the vast majority of people do. In a prison population of 84,000, fewer | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
than 50 are serving whole life tariffs, and they will stay in | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
forever and everyone else will come out. I would rather in terms of | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
public safety see somebody come out in a series of steps, rather than | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
simply walking out of a prison gate, hearing it slammed behind | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
them, and going out to find work and housing and contact their family, | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
all of which will cut reoffending rates. Open prisons test people out | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
in the community. What do you say? That is common sense but | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
unfortunately the Skull Cracker is a bad example. Something went wrong in | :44:17. | :44:25. | |
the system for him to go to the open prisons so soon. Nobody doubts the | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
value of the open prison but clearly the Skull Cracker should never have | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
been a candidate for the open prison. Not at this stage anyway. | :44:32. | :44:39. | |
Are people scrutinised carefully so that they do not get these rights | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
automatically? Indeed they don't. I hope this case is not typical | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
because people are assessed very thoroughly. They have to be assessed | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
by the parole board, which is a very thorough process. They have to be | :44:52. | :44:54. | |
assessed within the prison and they need approval of the governor. Cases | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
like this are signed off by the Secretary of State for justice. | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
There will be a series of checks and balances. This person will have gone | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
through all that and has ended up absconding. The point I want to make | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
is actually this is an unusually safe system. If you look at release | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
on temporary licence and at 2012, there were 485,000 days served in | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
the community by people released on temporary licence, which would | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
include the two men from Brixton prison who served time in our office | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
and worked diligently and hard, in a very good way. Out of that number, I | :45:34. | :45:41. | |
think it was only 0.005%... Yes, that was that statistic that I used | :45:42. | :45:49. | |
earlier. Only that small percentage was a failure. So one case can ramp | :45:50. | :45:53. | |
up the media reaction which destroys what the prison service is trying to | :45:54. | :45:57. | |
do in a balanced and sensible way. Thank you. Now, Marks and Spencer, | :45:58. | :46:04. | |
Tesco, Morrisons and the Co-op have confirmed that their lamb imported | :46:05. | :46:06. | |
from New Zealand is halal-slaughtered. Yesterday The Sun | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
newspaper revealed that all chicken served in Pizza Express restaurants | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
was halal, although not labelled as such. We were hoping to be joined by | :46:13. | :46:22. | |
Dr Shuja Shafi from the Muslim Council of Britain. But he has also | :46:23. | :46:29. | |
been thwarted by the London traffic. Are you shocked by the the | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
revelation that supermarkets are serving halal meat without it being | :46:33. | :46:39. | |
labelled? I was. Anyone walking into a supermarket now concede that their | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
food is traceable. You can trace the origin of the cut of beef dating | :46:47. | :46:53. | |
back to the BSE scandal so it was surprising to discover that most of | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
the halal products are not labelled as such. Do you think people have | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
been duped, to use the word that was reported in some newspapers? I think | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
that is perhaps overstating it. I think there is a lack of | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
transparency and the supermarkets should be labelling them eat | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
accordingly. We cannot afford to be pretty, if you're killing an animal | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
it has got to be a bloody and brutal business. But the products just need | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
to be labelled. How do you think we have got to situation where we have | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
supermarket change that chains as well as food outlets actually | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
serving food without explaining how it was killed? I think there is a | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
gap in the legislation which means they do not have to explain all of | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
that. It seems that a number of them have chosen the option of default | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
halal meat because they know there is a small constituency very | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
concerned about that. Most people are not offered one way or the | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
other. I think if there was just clear labelling they would get | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
themselves out of this pickle. If not this will only end badly for the | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
supermarket. The horse meat scandal saw a collapse in the sale of ready | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
meals. Last week a ban on the import of | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
Indian mangoes was brought in by the EU following an outbreak of fruit | :48:18. | :48:20. | |
flies. Leicester East MP Keith Vaz told David Cameron during PMQs that | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
hundreds of businesses in this country were losing out because of | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
the ban. It was imposed because of fears that the flies could | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
contaminate home-grown tomatoes and cucumbers. Here's what Keith Vaz had | :48:32. | :48:43. | |
to say. Last Thursday the EU ban on the import of Indian mangoes took | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
effect. As a result hundreds of businesses in Leicester and | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
throughout the UK will suffer millions of pounds of losses. There | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
was no consultation with this House and no vote by British ministers. | :48:56. | :48:58. | |
Next week he will have his first conversation with the new Indian | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
Prime Minister. Will he do his best to reverse this ban so we keep the | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
special relationship with India which he and his predecessors have | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
worked so hard to maintain and so we can have delicious mangoes once | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
again. There are concerns about particular cross contamination in | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
terms of British crops and British interests so we have to make sure | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
that that is got right. But I understand how strongly he feels and | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
how strongly the Indian community feel in this country and I look | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
forward to discussing it with the new Indian Prime Minister. With us | :49:35. | :49:38. | |
now is Vivek Singh, an Indian chef and founder of one of Westminster's | :49:39. | :49:41. | |
culinary hot spots, the Cinnamon Club. Thank you for bringing us this | :49:42. | :49:49. | |
delicious food, all Mango based. What is your reaction to the ban, | :49:50. | :49:55. | |
bearing in mind that this could be a risk to British crops. Correct and | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
on that basis alone, that aspect of it is something to be taken | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
seriously. But we deal with food and one of the big reasons why London is | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
a global food capital is because of its ability to bring in the very | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
best produce from all over the world. And these mangoes are just | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
one of these things, it is such a short season and so wonderfully | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
appreciated everywhere. And we have gotten used to those mangoes for so | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
many years. So you want the ban to be lifted immediately? I would like | :50:31. | :50:37. | |
to be, subject to certain things being met. If we can get assurances | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
that certain processes can be put into place, where pest dangers could | :50:42. | :50:48. | |
be minimised, I would like to see off on so mangoes on the menu. Do | :50:49. | :50:55. | |
think that the ban is to do cranny in the smack -- draconian? I do. I | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
know that there is a trade in contraband mangoes taking place at | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
the moment! Are they so popular? They are popular in the Indian | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
community, usually popular as well in the foodie community mainly | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
because the season is so short. They cannot be replicated anywhere else. | :51:21. | :51:26. | |
You have got a supporter here, clearly. How much damage with the | :51:27. | :51:34. | |
band do to the industry here? Well I do not want to trivialise the issue | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
by saying we would lose out on six weeks of Mango deserts on the menu. | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
But it is a big industry, there are so many farmers. The business is | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
worth millions and it has been seriously affected. The only upside | :51:52. | :51:56. | |
is that my Indian friends back in India have plenty of mangoes to try | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
this season. If there is a risk and we have got a problem with fruit | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
flies coming in on the imports and that could affect British produce, | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
is that not a serious enough issue to be taken to task with Mac it | :52:10. | :52:16. | |
cannot be ignored by the Indian authorities are saying that they | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
have tackled that issue. If you try other varieties of Mango they're not | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
nearly as nice. Tell us what these are. This is Mango and cardamom. But | :52:27. | :52:33. | |
it has been made with tinned Mango puree. You just have to use your | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
imagination a little bit. The Indian mangoes, mangoes generally are | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
considered the king of all fruit but the Indian varieties are the king of | :52:47. | :52:57. | |
all. Unbelievably delicious. But if the authorities said they have to | :52:58. | :53:00. | |
look into these things then surely it has to be taken seriously. If it | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
is short-term, and they said they are working closely with their | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
Indian partners, if it is short-term, with it do any lasting | :53:10. | :53:14. | |
damage? Not really except that the season itself is very short, the | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
window is just a few weeks. So I hope it does not take too long to | :53:20. | :53:27. | |
have get it resolved. Perhaps we should not have the desert first! | :53:28. | :53:38. | |
This is a Mango chutney knee. This is a savoury application. You can | :53:39. | :53:46. | |
lean across so I do not drop it. And I will give you another spoon to | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
try. It is amazing. The only thing I have a problem with is how to cut | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
the mangoes in the first place. They are messy. I will try it after the | :54:00. | :54:11. | |
programme! Thank you very much for bringing in this amazing food. And | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
we will move on. Tony Gallagher, as well as being a high-profile | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
newspaper editor is also a dab hand in the kitchen. In between editorial | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
jobs he recently spent a few weeks working as a chef in a London | :54:26. | :54:31. | |
restaurant. There has always been a close link between politicians and | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
fine dining. He is Charles still not with the rundown of the top five | :54:38. | :54:43. | |
eligible restaurants. -- political restaurants. At five the Hungarian | :54:44. | :54:53. | |
hang-out in Soho. The social scene for socialists who want to be seen | :54:54. | :55:01. | |
dining out. The Gay Hussaar. At number four, Kennington tandoori. | :55:02. | :55:10. | |
Ken Clarke pops down regularly and has his own table. | :55:11. | :55:17. | |
At number three and within smelling distance of the House of Commons is | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
the Cinnamon Club. This posh with Mr Indian is the place for hush-hush | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
chats. Great food and make sure that someone else's pain. At number two, | :55:28. | :55:36. | |
the heart of culinary Tory land, in Belgravia. Opposed brand you'll | :55:37. | :55:45. | |
visit to the cigar terrace is de rigueur. Granita at number one. | :55:46. | :56:03. | |
Gordon Brown opted for the humble pie that took ten years to digests. | :56:04. | :56:13. | |
Vivek, York favourite political customer at the Cinnamon Club was | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
Mac who has not been to the Cinnamon Club was Mac we are very lucky. We | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
are talking about famous political characters. Is it a fun being a | :56:25. | :56:30. | |
restaurant in the heart of Westminster? Do you see and hear | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
things that are juicy? Personally not, I'm down in the kitchen. But we | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
do get a lot of people coming to the restaurant expecting to bump into | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
politicians and famous people. Your favourite lunch? In terms of | :56:48. | :56:55. | |
political restaurants it would be none of the above, none of those | :56:56. | :57:00. | |
five. Mainly because your worst nightmare having lunch with a | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
politician is that there is a newspaper hack at another table. And | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
when your story emerges later they can trace it back to that | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
politician. So I try to find places that are off the beaten track where | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
I will never run into other members of the political and media class. So | :57:20. | :57:28. | |
is that the secret? I'm danger of being unkind but the political class | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
do like traditional places. A lot of red meat. If you want to fine dining | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
you have to go off the beaten track. You go out of Westminster these | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
days? I do. I tend to go to places where the food will be brilliant, | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
hopefully we will learn something interesting and no one will overhear | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
a conversation. Who is the most entertaining to take out? I had | :57:56. | :58:04. | |
dinner with Boris Johnson last year and the entire restaurant stood up | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
to applaud him on the way out the door which was a revelation. Last | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
year in one restaurant they had locked Tony Blair and Peter | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
Mandelson in a private easement area and cleared the restaurant until | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
they had left. What it is to be famous! Boris has caused the most | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
drama, people stop eating when they see him. This is the one thing we | :58:28. | :58:35. | |
find with the Cinnamon Club, no one stops! That's all for today. Thanks | :58:36. | :58:43. | |
to our guests. Andrew may have left me today, but he will be on BBC One | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
tonight for This Week with Ruby Wax, Dan Hodges, James Landale, Diane | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
Abbott, Miranda Green and Michael Portillo at 11:35pm. And he will be | :58:51. | :58:54. | |
here again at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories of the | :58:55. | :58:55. | |
day. Goodbye. It's shocking it'd happen | :58:56. | :59:07. | |
in a public place. I don't find it funny, | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
but I don't find it offensive. It really is vile. | :59:14. | :59:15. | |
Shock value sells. | :59:16. | :59:18. |