Browse content similar to 13/05/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The American pharmaceuticals giant Pfizer has begun defending | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
its attempted takeover of Britain's AstraZeneca, | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
Scientists and unions have warned that | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
the move could lead to cuts in jobs, and a loss of UK research skills. | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
Heathrow and Gatwick want another runway, but which airport will win? | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
The bosses of both will be fighting it out in the studio. | :00:58. | :01:06. | |
Would you want this man to troubleshoot your business? | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
And, apparently, MPs don't like being seen at the opera. | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
So we thought we'd bring the opera to MPs. | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
And with us for the whole programme today is the | :01:21. | :01:26. | |
Digby served in Gordon Brown's government, | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
He is stuck in traffic but should be with us soon. | :01:32. | :01:47. | |
Martin Boon is with us, with a headline grabbing pole. | :01:48. | :01:57. | |
The rarest of things, as you say, March 2012 is the last time we saw a | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
small Conservative lead. Labour have been in charge in terms of the polls | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
since then. It suddenly feels like a little something is beginning to | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
happen. Lord Ashcroft had his own poll which reinforced what we had to | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
say, a two points Conservative lead. | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
The Lib Dems are even further down. You say this could be the start. We | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
have seen a pattern of the Labour lead being cut to five percentage | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
points over the last seven months. Is this really the start of | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
something? It could be. We clearly are in a | :02:43. | :02:52. | |
period of political flux. European elections next week. This is a | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
relatively unusual couple of weeks in British politics where we have a | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
new party emerging strongly, potentially winning those European | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
elections, dominating the media narrative. People are focusing on | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
what they can see, Nigel Farage and UKIP. That may be reversed after the | :03:11. | :03:17. | |
elections. But some are thinking a Conservative lead has been a long | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
time coming. Conservatives have been wondering | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
why, in their minds, the effect of improving economic news had not been | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
shown in the polls. Is this the start of that? | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
I have been saying, wrongly, as it turns out! The conditions are | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
therefore a Conservative lead. We have economic optimism. We have | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
David Cameron and George Osborne seeming competent than their Labour | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
counterparts in managing the economy. Positive approval ratings | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
for both those leading conservative politicians, not the case for Ed | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
Miliband and Ed Balls. And good news emerging. Conditions are therefore | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
the Conservatives to grab the polling lead, to build on it and | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
build the kind of numbers you might expect to see with those conditions. | :04:16. | :04:22. | |
All the talk will be whether there is panic at Labour HQ. Let us hear | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
Ed Miliband when he was asked about the polls. | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
Polls go up and down. That is always what you say when you wear down. I | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
have seen that in three and a half years in this job. | :04:37. | :04:37. | |
have seen that in three and a half What matters is the bread and butter | :04:38. | :04:44. | |
issues, energy prices, childcare, NHS, improving GP access, something | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
which Labour is leading the other parties on. We will focus on those | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
questions. The people will make the decisions. Putting a brave face on | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
it, he has too. No doubt, psychologically, this will be a | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
boost for Tory MPs. Let us look at the reliability of the polls. | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
Michael Ashcroft's poll also had a two point lead for the | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
Conservatives, how reliable is that? They are standard classic opinion | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
polls. They were both conducted by telephone which dishes nearly have | :05:26. | :05:34. | |
excellent records. So there is that. Every opinion poll, Ed | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
Miliband is right, there are ups and downs. But they are correct | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
generally two plus or -3%. It is fair to say the parties are running | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
neck and neck. Was about the polls showing the | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
Tories are narrowly first in the European elections bearing in mind | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
most of those polls have put the Tories in third place behind Labour | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
and UKIP? How reliable would that be? I will | :06:03. | :06:08. | |
be the rarest of beasts, a pollster who will not stand. Behind an | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
opinion poll. I am cautious about that. And it comes to European | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
elections, we expect a turnout of 30% which means we are taking out a | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
chunk of our poll sample for a start. When we have fewer numbers to | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
play with, we have wider margins of error so there will be some flux in | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
terms of the shares of the vote. The Tories in the lead in the European | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
elections? Possibly. Possibly not stop briefly, the marginals are | :06:45. | :06:55. | |
where the big battles. I would be interested to see which | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
particular marginals have been polled or whether it is one pole | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
across specific types of marginal areas. Those are confiscated polls | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
to undertake. The devil is in the detail. We need more evidence. | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
Who are these MPs, and who are they pretending to be? | :07:19. | :07:32. | |
At the end of the show, Digby will give us the correct answer. | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
The head of the American drugs company Pfizer faces | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
tough questioning by MPs over the next two days, | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
about the proposed purchase of its British rival, AstraZeneca. | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
before the Business Committee this morning, | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
and he'll appear in front of the Science Committee tomorrow. | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
The MPs want to test Pfizer's claims that it's committed to safeguarding | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
Let's get a flavour of this morning's events. | :07:59. | :08:06. | |
Combined budget of AstraZeneca and Pfizer would not be reduced as a | :08:07. | :08:18. | |
result of this taking over? I mean in this country. Can you just | :08:19. | :08:24. | |
clarify? Yes, our commitment is to 20% of our global RND numbers | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
worldwide would be in the UK. So you're not making that commitment? | :08:30. | :08:37. | |
20% of the headcount of Pfizer in the UK. The Swedish experience is | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
rather concerning and you can understand why people feel this. | :08:41. | :08:47. | |
When the Prime Minister of Sweden said that, following the purchase | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
there, they have had a negative experience, there were promises it | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
would mean jobs and operations in Sweden that we don't think were | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
honoured, it makes us feel great concern for jobs and resources for | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
research. Does that bother you? Let me... No, answer my question is not | :09:08. | :09:14. | |
your question. Does that bother you was my question? I am worried the | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
facts are incorrect. That the Prime Minister is wrong? This is about | :09:20. | :09:28. | |
limiting your tax to give to any government in the business model of | :09:29. | :09:37. | |
your company. 80,000 people. It has produced innumerable numbers of | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
great projects. Our purpose is to bring life changing products... Let | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
me finish. Two patients. The way we will do that is by putting together | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
the pipelines and scientists, being more efficient and gaining tax | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
advantages. What are the drawbacks? Exactly what I was getting at. The | :09:59. | :10:08. | |
disruption. What will we tell the person whose father died from lung | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
cancer, because one of our medicines was delayed because, in the | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
meantime, our two companies were involved in selling costs? Would | :10:20. | :10:29. | |
your attitude change if there was a longer time frame? | :10:30. | :10:40. | |
We have a 20, 30, 50 year commitment to this country. | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
With us now is former Chancellor and now Conservative peer Nigel Lawson. | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
And Labour's Shadow Minister For Industry, Iain Wright. | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
I am pleased to say Digby Jones has made it. | :10:51. | :11:00. | |
Were you reassured by what you heard? No, I wasn't, there was an | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
admission that research and government spending could go down. | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
What is the central element regarding British industrial | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
competitiveness? We are very strong in science and research and we have | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
to maintain that as a means of paying our way in the world. We | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
didn't get those reassurances. Pfizer said its commitment to | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
preserve UK site jobs are legally binding. They said that and promised | :11:28. | :11:36. | |
to complete an AstraZeneca research Centre in Cambridge, and place 20% | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
of research staff in the UK. Do you not believe them? | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
Subject to circumstances, was the phrase used, the get out of jail | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
card. That is not defined. They have previous on this. They have a | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
business model that often produces acquisitions and has cost cutting at | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
the expense of research and treatment. Digby Jones, it is their | :12:03. | :12:11. | |
history of being asset strippers which has made people nervous at a | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
time when Britain is very proud of its research and advancement. | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
I can see why people are nervous. AstraZeneca, a lot of their research | :12:20. | :12:25. | |
and investment is in Bangalore, and in the States. It is the product of | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
a transnational merger acquisition. ICI bought a Swedish company. It is | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
easy to polarise this. We should elevate the debate into saying the | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
best way to keep research and develop | :12:41. | :12:40. | |
elevate the debate into saying the best way to keep research and meant | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
and highly skilled jobs is an education system that works, and | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
produce people for business. A transport system which gives us a | :12:49. | :12:51. | |
runway at Heathrow. A competitive tax regime. Then there wouldn't be | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
any argument about legal obligations. It would be so good | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
here they would not want to leave. What we should be doing as | :13:02. | :13:07. | |
politicians, you should be saying to the American government, not Pfizer, | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
could AstraZeneca do this in America? The answer is, no, they are | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
a protectionist country. You should be saying, they are very welcome. | :13:17. | :13:29. | |
It seems, Nigel Lawson, the whole of British science is against this | :13:30. | :13:34. | |
takeover, despite the investment it would bring, according to Pfizer. | :13:35. | :13:42. | |
The award against this takeover as it currently stands. | :13:43. | :13:50. | |
Look, in my experience, they are almost invariably wrong. Whether | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
they are or not, I don't know. I am completely neutral. I am concerned | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
whether the British government should block this. I don't think it | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
is in our interest that they do. I think it is in our fundamental | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
interest we are an open country, open for business, welcoming inward | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
investment. Pfizer are a perfectly respectable company, not crooks. I | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
welcome the fact that assurances are sought. But at the end of the day, | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
it is not in our interest the government should step in and block | :14:29. | :14:30. | |
this bid. With Labour block this if they were | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
in a position to do so? Can I respond by saying I agree with | :14:36. | :14:42. | |
having an open economy. In my own region, Nissan has been a massive | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
success. What the Shadow Business Secretary has done is said, why | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
don't we extend as is legal and reasonable the enterprise act to | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
ensure we have an additional category beyond media plurality to | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
ensure the maintenance of the science and development base. That | :15:03. | :15:07. | |
will help us pay our way in the future. | :15:08. | :15:22. | |
want to get cast iron assurances. , you would say no at the moment, but | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
if you had the so-called cast iron agreements, you would go ahead. At | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
the moment I am worried this would not be in our interest. When the | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
enterprise act was in an enterprise Bill, in the CBI we campaigned | :15:45. | :15:51. | |
hugely to say to Gordon Brown and Patricia Hewitt, please let the | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
maintenance of our RND science bases be one of the tests. I would have | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
that as one of the tests, but that does not mean I have got the bid. | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
Even if Pfizer failed a strengthened public interest test, could the | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
Government blocked this? If the shareholders said it was a good | :16:13. | :16:19. | |
deal? In legal terms, they could, it is in the statute. But that is not | :16:20. | :16:26. | |
the point. But with respect to you, some are in agreement. That is | :16:27. | :16:32. | |
posturing. No, it is not. In a global economy you cannot say, | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
AstraZeneca do it in Britain because they do it everywhere. Both of them | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
joined together are doing more in India than they are doing in America | :16:45. | :16:47. | |
or Britain. You cannot distil it down to yes or no. You have to say | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
where does this work to create wealth and be attractive for other | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
investors. ? You do not want a storm on television about why we suddenly | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
do not like inward investment. You do not want that. What reassurances | :17:04. | :17:10. | |
would you want? I would go to Congress in Washington and say, | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
would you let this happen in America. They will say no. Then we | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
should say why should an American company do it anywhere else in the | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
world? What about the issue of the taxpayer. It would reduce the amount | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
they would have to pay in tax. That is seen as a cynical reason for the | :17:29. | :17:37. | |
takeover. It was designed deliberately by the present | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
Government to be friendly to business and to encourage enterprise | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
and that includes companies from other countries which have a higher | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
tax rate tend to come here. Although that is a consideration, there is no | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
way Pfizer would want to take over AstraZeneca just for the tax. Why do | :18:00. | :18:09. | |
you disagree? It is going down from 38% to 21%. It is a big drop. The | :18:10. | :18:15. | |
shift in Pfizer's argument seems to have changed. It was about | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
repatriation of tax to the US. This was a tax deal rather than becoming | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
a science powerhouse. It seems to be because of tax reasons. When the | :18:26. | :18:32. | |
board at Pfizer was sitting there deciding, do we go for this? The | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
finance director would have said, there is a nice tax regime and | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
Britain is attractive. But you do not at that level make decisions | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
like this just for tax. It helps gild the decision. You are stepping | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
up the card against the company on the basis of tax and whether it will | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
be committed to keeping Britain as a research and development Centre and | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
jobs, but do you see it looks as if there is a block to this bid coming | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
in? The wriggle room has circumstances changing and the | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
wording of the letter is too vague. The commitment of five years, given | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
the life sciences sector, is too short. We are thinking about the | :19:18. | :19:27. | |
next 15 or 20 years. AstraZeneca, unlike Glaxo Smith Kline which is | :19:28. | :19:31. | |
bigger and British, and Pfizer at the top, where you are onto | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
something is AstraZeneca's pipe line of patented discovery, which is not | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
going to go generic to anybody, that pipeline is very small. You need to | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
have ten or 15 years out and it is diminishing by the day. To have a | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
longer term commitment to research and development needs more time. Do | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
you think it will go ahead? There is a general expectation that Pfizer | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
are going to make a bid, which technically they have not yet done. | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
That bid will be something higher than the price they indicated | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
originally. Then each company will be making its own pitch. And of | :20:18. | :20:30. | |
course there is the scrutiny, which is quite right, I am in favour of | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
that and the Government will get undertakings. But let me add one | :20:36. | :20:42. | |
thing, I am neutral, but I do not believe it is in our interests to | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
block this bid. As far as Pfizer is concerned they know it is not in | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
their long-term interest to alienate the British Government. Will they | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
really care about that in the future? Why is it not in their | :20:58. | :21:07. | |
interest? Because it is in our interests to make it clear that we | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
are an open economy and we welcome inward investment. That looked at | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
Kraft's takeover of Cadbury. There are always arguments on both sides, | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
but overwhelmingly we are benefiting from inward investment. Kraft's | :21:25. | :21:33. | |
takeover of Cadbury went down badly. It went down badly and basically | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
they were never going to do what they said. That is not the point. | :21:39. | :21:46. | |
Kraft's and Cadbury make a commodity. AstraZeneca and Pfizer | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
need a very strong university-based to help with research and | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
development and the second strongest university based in the world is in | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
this country. If you put a sign up saying, we don't like other | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
countries coming in, look at Jaguar Land Rover, Indian money, the | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
biggest market China. Welcome to globalisation. Nissan, welcome to | :22:10. | :22:17. | |
globalisation. Very briefly, you are reported as saying you would like | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
the top rate of tax to come down to 40p. Would you like that in the | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
manifesto? They do not need it in their manifesto, they will do it | :22:28. | :22:28. | |
when the time is right. He's been the head of the CBI. He's | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
been a government minister. He's in the House of Lords. And now it looks | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
like Digby Jones is after my job as a top broadcaster! He's just | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
finished a series of programmes for BBC2 where he visits businesses | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
and solves their problems. But does the Digby dust really rub off? | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
Adam's been to a firm that starred Tonight, Digby Jones tries to help | :22:47. | :23:03. | |
one company take a radical change in direction. They made dehumidifiers | :23:04. | :23:10. | |
in County Durham and spent ?1 million by a chest freezer firm in | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
Scotland and were moving it down south, | :23:14. | :23:14. | |
million by a chest freezer firm in Scotland and were moving it down but | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
it did not end well. They planned to be making freezers by Christmas, but | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
they missed that deadline and the next, much to his disappointment. | :23:22. | :23:30. | |
You promised me. The boss was the one on the receiving end. I went to | :23:31. | :23:32. | |
meet her this week. one on the receiving end. I went | :23:33. | :23:39. | |
What is it do you like about him coming in? Most of it happened in | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
such a world you do not know what is going on at the time. We always used | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
to have a debrief at the end of the filming. The place looks pretty | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
shipshape, full of gadgets and robots, but... They are not doing | :23:56. | :24:04. | |
anything. No, we are about a few weeks away from being able to hit | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
the button and this process being able to join up and work. What would | :24:09. | :24:16. | |
he say if he was here today? He knows where we are on the dates and | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
the one thing he really did admire is we took the decision to make the | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
right decision for the business and not to get into the documentary. | :24:25. | :24:34. | |
Digby taught her the importance of marketing and leadership, but you | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
read that moment was a visit to the Nissan plant in Sunderland. It was a | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
light bulb moment for me where they are making half a million cars and | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
you think it looks amazing. But in a few years time we could be making | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
half a million appliances across these factories, so we have to plan | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
for the future and the big scale. But there is one thing in particular | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
that made it all worth it. The response we had from the British | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
public that really want to see you succeed and value manufacturing | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
jobs. Maybe that is an older generation, they remember when we | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
used to make things. But even the youth of today, we get students on | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
placement and they thought places like this did not exist any more. | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
And his lordship is not the only one who has been helping out. They have | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
received cash from the regional growth fund which they are using to | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
develop the only made in Britain washing machines. | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
Digby Jones is still here as is Iain Wright. How long do you spend | :25:44. | :25:51. | |
generally with a company? For an hour's programme you do ten days. | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
That is the filming. Behind that is the research, the chatting and all | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
of that all to distil down. What my vision was, and the BBC approached | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
me, I had said we have a generation of kids coming out of school who | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
think business is about a rich man getting out of a Rose Royce. It is | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
about somebody selling in a kitchen with a trainee cook and screaming | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
the F word. The average businesswoman and businessman in | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
this country do not identify with that at all. I said if you want me, | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
you are not going to get reality television. She said she was not | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
going to switch the on button to give a happy ending. She said, I am | :26:40. | :26:47. | |
not going to produce a freezer for you because it is the end of the | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
series. Yes, we missed our date and these are the reasons and we do | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
something about it. Are you confident about that business? Of | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
the three, I think the middle one will always exist, it is a question | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
of whether it will fulfil its potential. This one are so utterly | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
part of their community in the North East, I think they will succeed. I | :27:15. | :27:24. | |
was privileged. I was so lucky to work with this great organisation | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
called the Beeb and at the same time working with wealth creation and job | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
creation in the country. I have a more confident generally? If you | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
look at the current economic indicators, Labour look at it | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
differently, but do you think the businesses you talk to are feeling | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
more optimistic than they were? I hate to say to an opposition, it | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
doesn't matter which side it is, it is very difficult to start picking | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
holes in a sustainable recovery. I dare holes in this recovery? Loo-mac | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
I am not going to criticise backing British business and this is | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
fantastic and for too long there has been petty party politics. But my | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
constituents and others around the country do not feel the effects of | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
recovery. I do not feel it in my wage packet. I feel like I am | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
struggling week in, week out. We have to make sure we have a real, | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
sustainable recovery and that means emphasising the importance of | :28:32. | :28:33. | |
manufacturing and real wealth creation that is not at the very top | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
but has to go all the way through. Do you accept that? I do not think | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
there is a disconnect between the wealth creation and its | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
constituents, I think it is between the metropolitan elite of South East | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
England and they constituents. Which it is becoming. It is like an | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
Italian citystate of the 14th century. That has a property bubble | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
aspect to it. But your constituents and the guys I advised around the | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
Midlands believe me do not see a house price bubble in this. They | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
need to feel their jobs are safe and they are better off because of this | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
constant increase in the wealth creating, tax paying side of the | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
economy. You used to work for a Labour Prime Minister. Do you think | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
this current Labour leadership and Iain Wright are business friendly | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
with the policies they are putting out? You included the Labour | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
leadership and Iain Wright. Iain Wright has a different dimension in | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
many ways and he will be loyal. If you are a North East MP you look at | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
life a little differently to the Labour leadership. I think the | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
Labour leadership is one of the least business friendly I have seen. | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Why do you think Labour is business friendly when the policies you have | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
made quite a lot of political weather on has been the proposed | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
intervention in the energy market, rents and trying to catch them and | :30:11. | :30:23. | |
railways, why are business friendly? Markets need to function efficiently | :30:24. | :30:33. | |
and some segments do not. I have been at an event with | :30:34. | :30:35. | |
manufacturers, energy producers, who has said in terms of cutting | :30:36. | :30:44. | |
business rates, that is what we need for manufacturing to thrive. A good | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
example of what a Labour business policy is. That longer term view, | :30:48. | :30:57. | |
that is best for wealth creation. The last people who should plan | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
anything for business is a politician of any party at any time. | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
Has this government rebalanced the economy? It promised to have a | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
long-term industrial strategy. To move away from a housing bubble. You | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
have to understand, you need an environment to create wealth. The | :31:21. | :31:26. | |
Labour government before 2010 invested in apprenticeships. This | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
government has carried it on. That is excellent for manufacturing and | :31:30. | :31:37. | |
business. You need a competitive tax regime, runways, railways. And if it | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
depends tax rate would not be. If you go to that lady up in Newton | :31:42. | :31:48. | |
Aycliffe, is small businesswoman today shall we pick in Exeter, they | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
will say the same thing. They can't get enough skilled people. If you | :31:55. | :32:01. | |
have an education system, both parties for 30 years have produced | :32:02. | :32:04. | |
kids who can't read or write. Which businesses are backing Labour? We | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
are making sure our business policies are pro-business. Big | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
business hasn't come out for Labour yet. That must be worrying for Ed | :32:15. | :32:24. | |
Miliband if you cannot cite big business there for Labour. Let me | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
help him. You have a Business Secretary, his opponents, Vince | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
Cable, he bought his trains from dust and off, his cars from Tokyo. | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
This is not about labour, but about politicians as a whole. Everyone | :32:41. | :32:48. | |
tried the lies of it. I agree that is one policy that is good for | :32:49. | :32:51. | |
business, but there are loads that aren't. | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
I don't think politicians should plan, but having a vision and making | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
sure industry can lead where it needs to. The automotive industry | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
has been rejuvenated through long-term policies. Would you be a | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
trade and industry blister under a Labour government? You would, with | :33:11. | :33:22. | |
their policies? I would serve my country. I wouldn't serve a | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
political party. If Ed Miliband did ask Digby Jones? With no tribal | :33:27. | :33:35. | |
political party strings attached. Including not taking the whip. And | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
David Cameron? I really do treat them all the same. Business will | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
work with any democratically elected government. You have to get away | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
from party politics. Now to the long-running saga | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
of airport expansion. Detailed proposals | :33:53. | :33:54. | |
to increase capacity in the south east of England have | :33:55. | :33:56. | |
been delivered today to the body set up | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
to select the best location. So, what's happening with | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
the incredible expanding airport? Captain Howard Davies was charged | :34:02. | :34:03. | |
with deciding which of Britain's major airports | :34:04. | :34:05. | |
should be allowed to grow. The captain has landed the two | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
leading contenders, both of whom | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
have revealed their plans today. Big old Heathrow | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
wants to make room for over 200,000 | :34:17. | :34:18. | |
extra flights every year. The captain has been studying | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
plans to add a third runway. Some would prefer Heathrow | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
to extend an existing one. Meanwhile, plucky Gatwick hopes | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
its second runway will be granted Last year, Captain Howard's Airport | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
Commission threw out plans by other airports, including | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
Birmingham and Stansted, to expand. And said, for the moment, he would | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
not consider as suggested by a certain | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
blond-haired wing commander. The Government has asked | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
Captain Howard to make a final recommendation | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
after next year's general election. Ministers will then decide | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
which scheme to back. Well, we're joined now by | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
the big hitters from both airports. The chief executive of Gatwick, | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
Stewart Wingate. And the newly-appointed chief exec | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
of Heathrow, John Holland-Kaye. Why would a Gatwick second runway be | :35:11. | :35:25. | |
better than expansion at Heathrow? There are two reasons why Gatwick | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
would be better. The first is the case for Gatwick is very strong. The | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
second runway would get more connections to more destinations | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
worldwide. It would open five years faster than a new runway at | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
Heathrow. It would seem more passengers utilise the runway | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
because being south of the city we could use the full capability of the | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
runway. Gatwick is an opportunity to have a runway finally delivered. I | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
have been talking to different businesses, some in the north-east. | :35:56. | :36:02. | |
What I hear is we need this to be delivered. Heathrow is politically | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
toxic. Your turn, why would an expanded Heathrow be better? | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
Heathrow and Gatwick are different. Gatwick is a very good at what the | :36:14. | :36:19. | |
serving low-cost markets and long haul leisure destinations. Heathrow | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
Connect businesses with the world. We serve network areas pulling | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
together the demand for remote markets and growth markets in Asia, | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
China, the Americas. If we want to deliver the ?100 billion of economic | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
growth, only Heathrow can get us to those local markets. Who would you | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
go for? I would go for both. Because you | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
both have done it really well. You best highlighted why you are both | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
good. You can both serve the country in a different way. We have to stop | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
internal flights going to Scotland and getting the railway up there. We | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
need to get to Brazil, China, India. An awful lot of traffic | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
doesn't generate and originate in London. You need to have a hub to | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
justify the cost. You need Gatwick because you can't have it, to make | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
sure the government can cope for the next 50 years in the south-east of | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
England. The problem is for Gatwick is this | :37:29. | :37:36. | |
hub issue. The strongest argument it seems for Heathrow, that people | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
coming into London will want to use Heathrow as it is the most connected | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
airport. This is a choice between the competitive airports market, and | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
going back to a monopoly situation. Gatwick was sold by Heathrow | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
following the forced break-up of the monopoly, to create competition. In | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
four years we have already connected to 50% of high-growth markets | :38:01. | :38:09. | |
globally with a European network. If we are going to have a market, let | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
it be a competitive market with affordable fares, and connectivity | :38:13. | :38:21. | |
worldwide. It is politically toxic, expanding | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
Heathrow, which is why a decision has been made on airport expansion. | :38:25. | :38:31. | |
It will be extremely difficult to get past the politicians. I don't | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
agree. The politicians recognise the economic value that Britain needs to | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
connect to the world, to get to the growing markets in Asia and the | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
Americas. They can only do that through a hub airport. We have | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
listened to our local communities and business. We have changed our | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
plans. Tell us about that, is it, in terms of compensation, the issues of | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
noise and pollution are of concern. We have moved the location of the | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
runway and changed its alignment so it has less impact on noise. Reduced | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
the impact on the number of houses affected. Increasing the level of | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
compensation to people who lose their homes. A well thought through | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
town which reflects the feedback from local communities. And giving | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
respite to all people affected by Heathrow. Do we need it? Let us say | :39:32. | :39:38. | |
that Howard Davies recommends a second runway at Gatwick. Could we | :39:39. | :39:49. | |
survive? You have had Lib Dem politicians saying, don't want | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
anything. Tory, let us kick it in the long grass because it is toxic. | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
And labour saying, I am going to stop building this third runway | :39:59. | :40:01. | |
because it is not popular. A complete lack of leadership in this | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
issue for 20 years. Businesses are screaming for them to make a | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
decision and make it happen. On that basis, that is why I say both. If | :40:13. | :40:21. | |
you want to let Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, take the hub traffic, the | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
best thing is not to expand Heathrow. If you leave Heathrow on | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
its own, you really will choke it incredibly quickly because Gatwick | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
is an enormous asset for the nation serving a different market. We need | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
both. The most important thing is we deliver additional capacity. | :40:43. | :40:51. | |
Heathrow has failed. That is why we have improved our plan, listened to | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
business and local communities. More people in west London support the | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
expansion than oppose it. We heard about Heathrow planning to build | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
over the M25. The disruption costs are captivated at ?1 billion. Those | :41:07. | :41:13. | |
watching this in Essex or the West Midlands will be saying, what about | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
Stansted and Birmingham? This is not a South East exclusive argument. You | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
agree with that. What about campaigning together? Can you not | :41:25. | :41:32. | |
see eye to eye on this? We support expansion at Heathrow and Gatwick. | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
We want as much runway capacity for the UK we can. We are in a global | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
condition against the French and Germans. What we do need is | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
expansion at Heathrow well because we need something different. We are | :41:47. | :41:55. | |
at capacity. We need to unlock that. Would you support both of you | :41:56. | :42:01. | |
campaigning together? Sir Howard Davies has essentially said he will | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
come up with a recommendation for where the next runway goes. The | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
condition is between ourselves and Heathrow. Would you have competition | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
between the two of you if you had a choice? Would you choose only one | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
between the two of you if you had a runway? Or both? There needs to be | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
capacity at both airports in the fullness of time. That is a yes, | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
then. The demand must go to a runway where it can be delivered. Gatwick | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
is on the table for the first time in decades because we are in | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
separate ownership. We can connect to 60% of the demand in the European | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
market. And the emerging economies. You can have a strong Heathrow and a | :42:48. | :42:52. | |
strong Gatwick serving London, the London to compete with other cities | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
in Europe. What about the alternative of extending an existing | :42:58. | :43:04. | |
runway at Heathrow? We have looked at it. What put us off that idea is | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
it would mean there would be arrivals and departures on the | :43:10. | :43:12. | |
runways continually and those living in the flight | :43:13. | :43:56. | |
capacity to collect -- connect Britain and to the world. To boost | :43:57. | :44:02. | |
the British economy. Not rely on the Dutch, French or Germans. | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
What if politicians say they won't make a decision? Let us say they | :44:08. | :44:13. | |
don't do anything. Which is what they could do. By the way, I read an | :44:14. | :44:20. | |
article about this. The article was headed, no is an answer. Because the | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
nation, especially the airlines and business, will know where they | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
stand. The political class, because they want popularity, will have | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
basically said, OK, let's be a second rate nation, over to you, | :44:35. | :44:41. | |
Germany. Great to have you both on together, do come back again. | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
Our guest of the day Lord Digby Jones has been | :44:45. | :44:47. | |
a long-standing critic of the European Union. | :44:48. | :44:49. | |
He once said the EU creates a "staggeringly large pile | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
of regulation in virtually every part of our lives". | :44:53. | :44:54. | |
So you can see why UKIP might be trying to recruit him. | :44:55. | :44:58. | |
In a moment, we'll discuss the pros and cons of being in the EU | :44:59. | :45:01. | |
But, first, here's a flavour of their election campaign video. | :45:02. | :45:49. | |
And joining me now is leader of the four Freedoms Party, Dirk Hazell, | :45:50. | :45:59. | |
the UK version of the European people's party. Welcome to the | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
programme. When you go to the doorsteps, have people heard of you? | :46:04. | :46:11. | |
Honestly? Our party is not on the tip of everybody's tongue, but the | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
voters at the back of their minds no Mr Cameron left the big party for a | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
funny, small one. People know that and there is recognition for that | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
and when you start to discuss it, they know the Tories chose to take | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
the people out of the leading party with the Chancellor Angela Merkel. | :46:34. | :46:42. | |
Do they care? We had a 92% increase at the end of the meeting of people | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
who believed we could stake in Europe. The British people are the | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
most sophisticated electorate in the world and they know when they are | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
being sold out and they know by and large politicians are not telling | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
them the truth. I agree with what you say about training and | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
education. If people have an idea that David Cameron took to the | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
Conservative party out of this big, centre-right grouping to join a | :47:12. | :47:15. | |
group of mismatched other parties, some of whom have been making less | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
than desirable comets, was that a mistake? Yes. Why UKIP will have | :47:22. | :47:29. | |
disappointing news today is the chance of rejoining them are nil | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
because I believe the future of the nation is in Europe. But what I | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
believe passionately, and where I am is where most of the nation and | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
Europe is, is that I think there is a golden chance between Germany | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
within the Eurozone and Britain outside the euro zone, two big | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
economies, at a time when Italy and France have got the challenges, they | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
have got a golden opportunity to reform Europe into a point where it | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
delivers for the businesses and the people of our country. Cameron is | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
going to have a more difficult job doing that reform job when he has | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
left the grouping that Angela Merkel was in. That has hampered his | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
position? That does not mean we need to reform Europe. You said it made | :48:20. | :48:28. | |
his position more difficult. If he is not able to repatriate some of | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
those powers, will you be campaigning to stay in or pull out? | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
If we have the Europe of the day with no reform, I think our chances | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
are better off out than in. What are the responses on the doorstep? Are | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
people saying they have not seen a major change and so we should pull | :48:50. | :49:00. | |
out? We are going to get reform. The reason we are going to get reform is | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
because the European people's party is going to win this election and we | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
are committed to reform. Our presidential candidate could not | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
have made it clearer. The priority is to create massive new jobs for | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
talented youth in the digital economy, in London in that sector, | :49:20. | :49:25. | |
and we are going to get it. The Governments have got to work | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
together and also within the European Parliament we have to have | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
a British and a London voice inside. Can I ask you a question | :49:32. | :49:41. | |
about the core of reform? The taxes of the people spend more money on | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
subsidising a commodity called agriculture than they do on growing | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
and developing the education base of the European union. If you are one | :49:51. | :49:56. | |
of the 50% under 25s in Spain, you have more chance of getting a job if | :49:57. | :50:00. | |
you are skills that if you do not and we carry on spending more money | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
of my and your taxes on subsidising Spanish agriculture than we do on | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
Spanish education. Can they really change? I mean fundamental reform. | :50:15. | :50:24. | |
The European people's party is really serious. If we had in this | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
country full reports of what Angela Merkel said and other European | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
leaders said, you would see how serious our natural allies are. The | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
leader of Ireland, Sweden, Poland, Germany, all these people are | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
natural allies and who has our Prime Minister gone in with? Can they | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
deliver reform? The money that subsidises agriculture and | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
education, and even if every penny of it went to sort out unemployment | :50:57. | :51:04. | |
in Greece... This country has paid quite a high price for not being an | :51:05. | :51:08. | |
entry country into the European union and the Conservatives have | :51:09. | :51:15. | |
made decisions with serious consequences. The poll tax in | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
Scotland, a strategic long-term error. Leaving the European | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
people's party at precisely the time where there is the leadership in | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
Europe that can deliver this change. Yes, there should be more spent on | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
training. The European people's party has increased the training | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
budget 40%, but it is mostly member states' responsibility. I am a | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
school governor and the whole of our meetings are spent on rules and | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
regulations and not the pupils. These are problems made in Britain, | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
but not in Brussels. We have to leave it there. | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
Now, are politicians too scared to go to the opera? | :51:59. | :52:00. | |
Well, the Musical Director at the Royal Opera House, | :52:01. | :52:03. | |
Sir Antonio Pappano, thinks MPs are too frightened to | :52:04. | :52:05. | |
show their faces at the opera in case they're seen as too elitist. | :52:06. | :52:09. | |
In a moment we'll be discussing that, but first lets see what MPs | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
I am a slightly witless prints. Slightly in fortunate there. I am | :52:13. | :53:22. | |
joined by the Sun newspaper on Sunday political editor, and are you | :53:23. | :53:34. | |
an opera buff? Yes, I am. The Sun newspaper laid on tickets for the | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
Royal Opera and it was a sell-out. It is not elitist at all. But it is | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
normally very expensive. Blame politicians for that because they | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
should subsidise it more. Do you like opera? No, I like ballet, and I | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
go to ballet a lot. I like a June. At least I am honest. There is a | :53:59. | :54:07. | |
difference. Elitism is for a guy who buys a lottery ticket in Manchester | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
today to buy a very wealthy person to go to the opera in Covent Garden, | :54:13. | :54:20. | |
that is elitist. To take opera into schools, to take its ability and is | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
a participant of quality into schools all over Britain that cannot | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
be elitist. I do not think Opera is elitist. I think the Royal Opera | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
house might be. Our MPs embarrassed to be seen at the Opera? Yes, they | :54:36. | :54:42. | |
want to appeared to be cool. David Cameron says he likes the Smiths, | :54:43. | :54:47. | |
David Blair liked the Arctic monkeys. Nobody sees through that. | :54:48. | :54:57. | |
Anything a politician touches is not cool. They may as well go to the | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
opera. It is all about politics, with backstabbing, sex, and it is | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
all there. All the great figures end in tragedy. Why can't politicians be | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
genuine wine? People would respect them more. Do you think there are | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
people in politics who like it JENSON BUTTON: Yes, | :55:20. | :56:41. | |
Marvellous, well done. All the best Spanish music written | :56:42. | :56:51. | |
by French men! Right, any guesses? You were shaking | :56:52. | :57:30. | |
your head. I have no idea. Dom Pasquale. | :57:31. | :57:54. | |
Is it Mozart? Don Giovanni. Marvellous. Something nonparty | :57:55. | :58:07. | |
political. There's just time | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
before we go to find out The question was who are these MPs | :58:11. | :58:12. | |
and who are they pretending to be? And they are pretending to be from | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
the Eurovision Song Contest. | :58:19. | :58:49. |