20/05/2014 Daily Politics


20/05/2014

Jo Coburn in Westminster and Giles Dilnot in Milton Keynes with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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A frenzy of policy announcements from Labour - from zero hours

:00:38.:00:41.

contracts to the minimum wage - but have any of them had any impact

:00:42.:00:44.

House prices are up 8% over the past year.

:00:45.:00:51.

David Cameron says he's alert to the dangers of a house price bubble.

:00:52.:00:55.

So is it time to put the brakes on the Government's Help to Buy scheme?

:00:56.:01:00.

And would you have a pint with any of these politicians?

:01:01.:01:13.

one part of the election campaign and asking, do we actually vote on

:01:14.:01:14.

local issues. We'll discuss why MPs are so keen

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to be seen down the local boozer. All that in the next hour

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and with us for the whole programme today is Baroness Sally Morgan,

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who's chair of Let's start with the ongoing saga

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of the personal emails sent by the Premier League Chief Executive,

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Richard Scudamore, which contained Yesterday Radio 5 Live's John

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Pienaar asked the Prime Minister how he would have reacted if it

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had been one of his ministers. You have come down hard on questions

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of races, you sacked one senior member of your team. When it comes

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to survive for long having admitted that sort of thing? -- when it comes

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to sexism. No, I don't think they would not. I have to be careful with

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what I say because I haven't seen these Pacific e-mails. In politics

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it would not be tolerated. Absolutely, we have to set high

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standards in politics. Is he right that it wouldn't have been tolerated

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in politics? I hope so. I was pleased he said that. It is a pretty

:02:40.:02:43.

significant issue. You can dismiss e-mails and say that it was private

:02:44.:02:47.

banter, but it is kind of a window into what people's views are. I

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think when somebody a leadership position, he says he says he is

:02:54.:02:56.

trying to get more women involved in sport, it is a pretty significant

:02:57.:03:02.

occurrence. If I was sitting on the board, I would be looking seriously

:03:03.:03:05.

about whether or not he should continue. You would sack him?

:03:06.:03:12.

Bluntly, I would. Should there be a line between the personal and the

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public? You say people in a leadership position, anything they

:03:16.:03:22.

write to a friend, a mate, however private, is still public property.

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There are obviously grey areas. You can't be crawling through people's

:03:30.:03:33.

e-mails. But this has been exposed by somebody who is working with him.

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It seems to me that is quite significant. I suppose I also

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think, if this was racism or potentially racist, I don't think

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anybody would be standing by. I think if we are serious about really

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promoting women, in all aspects of society, whether it is sport,

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business politics, we have got to take a consistent stance. You think

:04:00.:04:03.

it should be consistent across all aspects of public life, not just

:04:04.:04:08.

politics being held to a higher standard? I think politics reflect

:04:09.:04:15.

society and it should do. It is also about people's integrity. If you are

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leading any sort of organisation, including a business, if on the one

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hand you say you are keen on promoting women, supporting women to

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get on further, and in another bit of your life you are expressing

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views that don't do that at all, think that is a problem. If those

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things were set down the pub, the same thing would not have happened.

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It is because it is written down. If there had been banter in someone's

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home, would it have at the same impact? I don't think so but I would

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be disturbed if we had somebody in a leading position his audit would be

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OK to use that banter. It reflects something about the way he views

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women. Lets leave it there. This morning Ed Miliband appeared

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on TV and revealed he spends ?70 to Was it tea, groceries,

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travel or mobile phone charges? At the end of the show Sally

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will give us the correct answer. As we all know, the country's

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gearing up for the local and Euro But Ed Miliband doesn't seem to have

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got that memo - he's been unveiling policies more suited to

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a general election campaign. Here's what

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the Labour Party policy factory has First off the production line,

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its plans to give those on Then, the star product at the Labour

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local election campaign launch targeted "generation rent",

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with calls to to cap rent increases, abolish letting fees

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and introduce longer tenancies. Next off the conveyor belt was

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speedier access for GP appointments ?100 million

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of savings would be made elsewhere The most recent offering to be

:06:02.:06:08.

packaged for distribution was a plan to set

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a statutory minimum wage target. However, this one's not yet quite

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made its way off the factory floor - with an exact figure to be announced

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nearer the general election. It seems the smoke will continue

:06:24.:06:27.

to pour from the Labour policy but can Ed Miliband hit

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on the golden ticket that will get voters queuing up

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at the polling booths in 2015? Here's what Ed Miliband

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had to say this morning. When I go around the country, people

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don't say the cost of living crisis is over. People have said I will on

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zero hours on that, -- I am on a zero hour contract and I am

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struggling. People in Crawley said to me, we can't afford to buy a

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house. We are struggling with the rent and can't afford to buy a

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house. There is a deep problem about the way the country is run. It feels

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to so many people like the system is rigged against them, it is run for a

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few people at the top, not for them. That is a question that goes beyond

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this election, beyond even apolitical party or a political

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leader, it is much bigger. It is a profound question about how we run

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our country and I am determined we tackle it.

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With us now is Labour's Stephen Timms - the Shadow Employment

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Minister - and the Conservative Business Minister Matt Hancock.

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Labour haven't made the impact you would have hoped for in terms of

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headlines and coverage. They are just not gathering attention ahead

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of local and European elections. I think they will. We have been

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setting up the concerns, people know there is a recovery underway but

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they are not feeling better off as a result -- setting out the concerns.

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To enable people to benefit, we need some major changes and those are the

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ones we have been setting out, being with the fact that few bills are

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going up so fast, -- dealing with the fact that fuel bills. Raising

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the minimum wage. All of those things can ensure the recovery

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benefits not just a few at the top, but everybody. If there is such a

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crisis, as Labour keeps saying, in the cost of living and people are

:08:36.:08:38.

not feeling the recovery, you would have thought these policies would

:08:39.:08:41.

have caught on, and they haven't. Not in the way that your proposed

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intervention in the energy market definitely did. That captured the

:08:46.:08:52.

zeitgeist, these have not. I think we are still benefiting from that

:08:53.:08:55.

and we are setting up a range of policies that build on that, which

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will deal with the question, how can we make sure everyone and if it's

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from the recovery that is now underway. -- everyone benefits.

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Retail sales have already been going up over the past few months. It

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rather mitigates what you are saying about a cost of living crisis. Let's

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see what happens. The average family is ?1600 worse off since the

:09:19.:09:22.

election. Inflation figures, they were hired than the rate of pay. I

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don't think we have seen the end of the problem by any means. We will

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not argue about statistics because we have had those debates before.

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The government will say, look at growth, look at the recovery. But

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you have mimicked some of the policies that Labour has put

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forward, certainly in terms of energy prices. You wanted to

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intervene on that. The Prime Minister also made a comment about

:09:49.:09:57.

rents. So you have chased the narrative. With the rent issue, we

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put that forward at our conference last year and Ed Miliband said

:10:02.:10:06.

something in this area. Which policy? The policy on making sure

:10:07.:10:10.

there is the opportunity to have longer-term rents. It is very

:10:11.:10:14.

difficult to discern what the Labour Party policy is. When you say it is

:10:15.:10:19.

rent controls, they say it is not. They say, is it what we set out at

:10:20.:10:24.

the conference, they don't want to admit to that. There is a bigger

:10:25.:10:30.

picture, why aren't any of these proposals cutting through? It is a

:10:31.:10:36.

hodgepodge, a whole series of little announcements, some of which fall

:10:37.:10:41.

apart at the first sight. Some of which address concerns that matter,

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but there is a big picture out there. You are saying growth is more

:10:46.:10:55.

important. Looking at the issue of growth is more important than the

:10:56.:10:59.

smaller issues, even if they are a concern. You have put it rather

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well. I hope it is how you would put it rather than I would. There is a

:11:05.:11:09.

big picture. We have a long-term economic plan to deal with the

:11:10.:11:13.

economy. It is starting to bear fruit. The job is by far from done.

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It is making progress. The deficit is coming down. Pay is just adding

:11:19.:11:24.

to get up there with inflation. -- just starting to. From Labour there

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is no big picture plan, just a whole series of pocket piece, hodgepodge

:11:30.:11:33.

policies that don't add up to anything. I would finish by saying

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this. They add up to less than the sum of their parts. That is the

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problem with the Labour proposal. You will not agree with that but is

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it because you can't do anything about growth? You cannot argue

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against what is happening so you are having to go for, what he would

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call, these smaller, sideline issues. We had three years with

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hardly any growth at all. Thankfully at last, there is growth appearing

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and hopefully that will be sustained. It has left us with a

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very serious legacy of problems. For example, and most unprecedentedly

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large number of people have been out of work for a long time -- almost

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unprecedentedly. The measures Ed Miliband has set out the right thing

:12:27.:12:30.

to do, otherwise we will be left with a recovery where only the very

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few at the top are feeling the benefit and everyone else is left

:12:34.:12:37.

behind. We can't carry like that. Declaration of course it

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Of course it takes a long time to recover from the recession

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established when you were in office. The key is this, on the really big

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questions, are you going to borrow more than we are planning as a

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government? It is a question that Ed Miliband will answer. He gives a

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very compensated answer. We are very clear, this government promise to

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end the deficit will stop Are you going to borrow more? It is

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straightforward. We will want to end the deficit as soon as we possibly

:13:18.:13:24.

can, in the next Parliament. We are setting out measures to do that in a

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way that is fair to everyone, not just a few at the top. When this

:13:28.:13:32.

government was elected, it said we would have steady growth and falling

:13:33.:13:35.

unemployment, it didn't happen. It has left a big legacy of problems

:13:36.:13:40.

that we will address. Will be Labour government borrow more than our

:13:41.:13:43.

plans? Inter we will set out our detailed budget plans at the time --

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We will set out our detailed budget plans at the time. Who is right? A

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big question for you! Do people at home think growth is going up,

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marvellous, or do they look at Labour and think, these issues of

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looking at rent increases, GP appointments, do they have more

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traction? I think at this stage, symbolic policies are quite useful.

:14:19.:14:23.

I think where Matthew is right is that by the time of the general

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election, it will be the big economic landscape that is where the

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real fight will take place. I think the minimum wage, it is very

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interesting. I think the Government have clearly been quite supportive

:14:38.:14:42.

of a rise but it turned out to be very tiny. The symbol was there but

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the policy was inadequate in my view. If I think back to the rows

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there were when we were in government, that the world was going

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to collapse as we knew it, if you say you want to make work pay, it

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means the minimum wage has to go up. Otherwise the taxpayers pay, rather

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than employers. I think these symbolic policies are important but

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by the time of the general election, it is about the bigger

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picture. Let's have a look at the minimum

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wage because that is something Labour have said they want to put

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up. I think George Osborne said he would increase it, you have not put

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an exact figure on it but presumably it will be closer to ?7 an hour? It

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is puzzling that George Osborne said there should be a significant

:15:37.:15:42.

increase when it has not happened. We put in evidence to the low pay

:15:43.:15:45.

commission that over two years you could have this sort of increase and

:15:46.:15:49.

in the first year they proposed the minimum wage should go up by 3%,

:15:50.:15:54.

more than average earnings. In fact, the report says that compared to

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average earnings, the level of the minimum wage has never been higher,

:16:00.:16:03.

and then it is going up faster than average earnings. Crucially, this is

:16:04.:16:10.

done through the low pay commission, to make sure that as well as

:16:11.:16:14.

unions, business is onside and everyone supports it, and it is done

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in a way that does not cost jobs. You can put the evidence in you

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want. You can get some direction. De Lo Paid Commission is this the

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Independent. We can afford to see an increase. Crucially, I was amazed

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that in labour's proposals they said the changes should happen

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irrespective of the impact on the wider economy. The independent

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directors have said this is not the right way to go on this. You need

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businesses to be on board with this. I remember the negotiations with

:17:02.:17:05.

industry at the time of the minimum wage and it was successful. It is

:17:06.:17:08.

not good enough for ministers to say we should have an increase and then

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not do anything to deliver it. The level of the minimum wage is 53% of

:17:14.:17:17.

median earnings. It needs to rise. level of the minimum wage is 53% of

:17:18.:17:21.

If the recovery is going to benefit not just a few at the top, but

:17:22.:17:25.

everybody... I am not just a few at the top, but

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supporter of the minimum wage. I want to look

:17:31.:17:33.

supporter of the minimum wage. I business. The argument being

:17:34.:17:35.

supporter of the minimum wage. I Matt Hancock is unique business

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onside. We remember you did Matt Hancock is unique business

:17:37.:17:41.

accepted issue. Let's speak to Digby accepted issue. Let's speak to Digby

:17:42.:17:54.

previous government. The last people on earth who should plan anything is

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a politician. I agree with you but there are loads of policies which

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are not good for business. I think Labour are not good for business.

:18:15.:18:20.

The plan we have this week is drawn up by Alan Buckle, the former chair

:18:21.:18:28.

of KPMG. I am confident we can reach an agreement with business. At the

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time of the 1997 general election, there was not time at that time --

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there was not agreement at that time. People realised it was in the

:18:40.:18:43.

country's interest that everybody should benefit from the recovery,

:18:44.:18:48.

not just a few. When will the government increase the minimum

:18:49.:18:55.

wage? October, ?26 50. It will have gone up faster than average earnings

:18:56.:19:05.

-- it will go up to ?6 50. It will be done in a way which does not

:19:06.:19:11.

damage jobs and has support from unions and business in a

:19:12.:19:15.

non-partisan way. We put in evidence to say that we thought it can go up

:19:16.:19:24.

now. We have made a load of progress. Let's look at one issue in

:19:25.:19:28.

terms of the recovery. Is there a housing bubble in London? Clearly,

:19:29.:19:36.

house prices are rising in London. Is there a double? It is very

:19:37.:19:41.

difficult to know. There is huge amount of money coming in from

:19:42.:19:44.

overseas. The London market, the figures show they are quite separate

:19:45.:19:52.

from outside London. This debate on housing is often debated by people

:19:53.:19:56.

who all have houses in London and we should not allow a coffee table

:19:57.:20:01.

discussion around those who are themselves impacted... Mark Carney

:20:02.:20:08.

says the UK has deep structural problems and poses the biggest risk

:20:09.:20:13.

to the recovery. I strongly agree with Mark Carney but the point is,

:20:14.:20:18.

over the whole country, house price inflation was much lower the figures

:20:19.:20:22.

this morning showed. Outside of London, I was in Carlisle last week,

:20:23.:20:26.

and making sure people can get access to homes and buy a home in

:20:27.:20:30.

places like Carlisle where house prices are much lower is really

:20:31.:20:35.

important. Should Help to Buy be reined in? When we set up Help to

:20:36.:20:40.

Buy we gave the Bank of England the ability to do that. I would like him

:20:41.:20:46.

to make the judgement on that. I'm concerned about what the government

:20:47.:20:49.

and others have said about what Help to Buy is doing in the housing

:20:50.:20:53.

market. I get the real thing we need to do is get more houses built.

:20:54.:20:59.

Everyone agrees with that. It was a failure by Labour to build the

:21:00.:21:04.

houses we needed. Equally, there has been a failure by this government to

:21:05.:21:10.

build houses at the rate we need. It is worth saying something on that.

:21:11.:21:16.

The number of completions of course was low but the number of starts has

:21:17.:21:21.

really started to accelerate, partly because we put in place the

:21:22.:21:25.

financing to get it going. The problem now is there is a housing

:21:26.:21:30.

bubble mouth to take the heat out of it should help to Bybee reindeer

:21:31.:21:38.

and? -- should help to Bali be reined in? My concern is that we

:21:39.:21:47.

could be heading in the direction of a bubble again now. Thank you.

:21:48.:21:55.

Now if you've been a regular watcher of the Daily Politics over the past

:21:56.:21:59.

few weeks, you'd know that as well as providing you with in-depth

:22:00.:22:02.

and enthralling coverage of the big parties contesting this week's

:22:03.:22:05.

elections, we've also taken time to talk to some of the smaller parties.

:22:06.:22:08.

Adam Fleming is outside parliament with representatives of not one -

:22:09.:22:32.

We have Nikki Sinclaire, a leader We Demand a Referendum Now Party, Tommy

:22:33.:22:39.

Tomescu, who is the leader of Europeans Party and Brian Denny who

:22:40.:22:45.

is leader of the No2EU. What is your policy? We believe there should be a

:22:46.:22:52.

referendum now. Surely investment is the, uncertainty is the biggest

:22:53.:22:59.

uncertainty of investment so therefore we cannot wait three

:23:00.:23:03.

years. We are quite clearly saying we need that referendum now. It was

:23:04.:23:07.

my campaign which forced David Cameron to the dispatch box and

:23:08.:23:12.

forced him to offer that referendum. By re-electing me in the West

:23:13.:23:16.

Midlands, you will have someone who will fight for a referendum.

:23:17.:23:21.

Realistically, people who really want a referendum to happen should

:23:22.:23:25.

just vote Tory in the next election, shouldn't they? David Cameron said

:23:26.:23:29.

he wanted to stop banging on about Europe. It was my petition which

:23:30.:23:33.

forced the debate in Parliament, it has forced him to the dispatch box

:23:34.:23:38.

and forced the issue. This shows what one small party with one MEP

:23:39.:23:43.

can actually do. By re-electing me in the West Midlands is someone who

:23:44.:23:47.

will not let David Cameron renege on his promises as Prime Minister 's

:23:48.:23:52.

have in the past. Tommy Tomescu, what made you quit dentistry and

:23:53.:24:07.

take up politics? There is a lot of offences against Romanians and this

:24:08.:24:14.

coincides with the latest campaign and what UKIP have said. We have

:24:15.:24:22.

said no one takes any kind of measures against these and people

:24:23.:24:31.

are becoming more and more... We demand a case to be followed and we

:24:32.:24:36.

demand the Crown Prosecution Service go and analyse the case against

:24:37.:24:42.

Nigel Farage for incitement to hatred... You think he should be

:24:43.:24:48.

prosecuted? He should be prosecuted, clearly. He does not have to be

:24:49.:24:51.

above the law just because the party is afraid they will lose votes. Have

:24:52.:24:57.

you called the police to complain about him? I have done a complaint,

:24:58.:25:05.

I am preparing to send it. I have a clip which I have placed on the

:25:06.:25:11.

Europeans Party page and we are preparing to send it. Now Nigel

:25:12.:25:17.

Farage is also setting up an army. It is not enough that he is

:25:18.:25:22.

portraying racial hate attacks against Romanians. The People's

:25:23.:25:28.

Army, was at that one of Hitler's early slogans? He is also saying

:25:29.:25:36.

that some people from different nations are against, are better than

:25:37.:25:42.

other nations. It is the same agenda. Brian, waiting very

:25:43.:25:48.

patiently, you are No2EU, what are you yes to? We are yes to democracy

:25:49.:25:54.

and yes to workers' rights. The EU is undermining workers' rights

:25:55.:26:01.

across Europe. Look at Greece and Portugal and countries like Romania.

:26:02.:26:03.

Collective bar and has been abolished and also EU rules out

:26:04.:26:08.

privatising our public services. It is interesting you talk about UKIP

:26:09.:26:13.

because UKIP are campaigning for the European rail directives to be

:26:14.:26:18.

rolled out across the EU. UKIP MEPs are campaigning for the

:26:19.:26:21.

privatisation of railways across Europe and they are campaigning for

:26:22.:26:23.

the privatisation of the NHS. None of those policies will be popular

:26:24.:26:28.

with the British electorate. The point is, most British people

:26:29.:26:33.

support the National Health Service and they support renationalisation

:26:34.:26:36.

of the roadways and No2EU was the only party standing on that platform

:26:37.:26:41.

in this election -- nationalisation of the railways. Has at the EU been

:26:42.:26:47.

great for workers' rights like the working time directive? In Greece,

:26:48.:26:56.

if you go on strike, the Athens transport workers, you are

:26:57.:26:58.

conscripted into the army automatically. That is not the

:26:59.:27:03.

agenda that social Europe is opposed to be in lamenting. Most of the

:27:04.:27:07.

directives that are supposed to defend workers are soft law, they do

:27:08.:27:11.

not implement it and the massive loopholes. The Swedish derogation

:27:12.:27:16.

means it cannot be it lamented so social Europe is a con. So you want

:27:17.:27:29.

means it cannot be it lamented so to withdraw from a system,? Jelena

:27:30.:27:29.

Renaud we to withdraw from a system,? Jelena

:27:30.:27:37.

regardless. -- we need to grasp the nettle and make that decision.

:27:38.:27:41.

Either be fully involved in the EU or leave it all together. If people

:27:42.:27:48.

vote to leave your referendum -- if people vote for referendum... What

:27:49.:27:57.

will you do? We do not think the free movement of capital, labour and

:27:58.:28:02.

goods and services is a good way of running society. It does not mean

:28:03.:28:10.

immigration will be abolished. The last word to Tommy. You should not

:28:11.:28:16.

just pick and choose. There are some good things and bad things in

:28:17.:28:22.

Europe. And also we are for a referendum. But people should be

:28:23.:28:27.

informed about this and people should choose who to inform but now

:28:28.:28:31.

they are afraid to do that because they are afraid. I ask the people to

:28:32.:28:36.

vote for the Europeans Party for the migrant workers. Thank you for

:28:37.:28:39.

joining us, we will continue discussing this but I have to hand

:28:40.:28:42.

back to the studio. Thank you. With just 48 hours to go before

:28:43.:28:49.

polling day across the country, we've decided to send our reporters

:28:50.:28:53.

out and about to get a flavour of how the election campaigns are going

:28:54.:28:56.

- and what voters make of it all. Today Giles is in Milton Keynes.

:28:57.:29:00.

Giles. Good morning. We are in

:29:01.:29:11.

Keynes having a look at the microcosm of local elections. Local

:29:12.:29:14.

Keynes having a look at the elections get notoriously bad

:29:15.:29:16.

turnouts. Is it because we do not really care or is it because what

:29:17.:29:21.

drives our vote is not just local issues. We took our infamous mood

:29:22.:29:27.

box into centre MKII asked an important question.

:29:28.:29:30.

It is an important question.

:29:31.:29:33.

It important question, do people vote on local issues or national

:29:34.:29:37.

issues? Let's find out what the shoppers think.

:29:38.:29:52.

this government, although there is no other government that can take

:29:53.:29:59.

over that are better than they are... I just want them to opt for

:30:00.:30:01.

their are... I just want them to opt for

:30:02.:30:13.

are... To you, it are... I just want them to opt for

:30:14.:30:16.

because you would vote for that party anyway? Yes, basically. If you

:30:17.:30:26.

were to choose? Local. Thank you very much. Slightly bending the

:30:27.:30:31.

democratic process by allowing a youngster to vote, but why not start

:30:32.:30:37.

them early? Without on what is going to be better

:30:38.:30:38.

them early? Without on what is going community. I don't care. Every

:30:39.:30:42.

politician is a liar. National. community. I don't care. Every

:30:43.:30:49.

Because it would affect everybody, not just me, not just our local

:30:50.:30:58.

community. Everybody wants two votes, that is not how it works. I

:30:59.:31:07.

don't bother with the local things. They do what they do with our money.

:31:08.:31:13.

National is much more important. Do you know who your local candidates

:31:14.:31:19.

are? No. Do you know what they stand for? Not really. But still the local

:31:20.:31:24.

issues are relevant? Yes, of course. for? Not really. But still the local

:31:25.:31:30.

I haven't heard anything from my local candidate. If they can't make

:31:31.:31:37.

the effort, why should you? This is it, very true. It is a general

:31:38.:31:45.

attitude to politics, life, and how they are going to treat people. I

:31:46.:31:50.

think there is also a disconnect in terms of voters perceiving what can

:31:51.:31:54.

be done locally. Because local government is so controlled by

:31:55.:31:59.

central government. The way the local one, it gives more people more

:32:00.:32:05.

of a say. With the national one, you don't really get heard. Here is the

:32:06.:32:15.

thing. It was interesting. At first it was all local issues that were

:32:16.:32:20.

more important, then there was a splurge as people started to think,

:32:21.:32:23.

sometimes they vote in local elections to send a national

:32:24.:32:27.

message, sometimes they don't know a lot about what is going

:32:28.:32:29.

message, sometimes they don't know a and sometimes they don't think they

:32:30.:32:33.

are that important. In the end, national issues has just won.

:32:34.:32:46.

It is not necessarily scientific but it does change the way politicians

:32:47.:32:52.

come to your doorstep. Let's find out how it works with two candidates

:32:53.:33:01.

who will be standing. Just explain to me, the problem for Labour, it

:33:02.:33:06.

seems to me, if you don't do well, everybody turns around and says, Ed

:33:07.:33:11.

Miliband is in trouble, Labour is in trouble. If you do well, everyone

:33:12.:33:15.

says, the opposition always does well in local elections when they

:33:16.:33:19.

are not in power. It is a bit of a lose-lose situation. Not really. I

:33:20.:33:25.

think what truly matters is we do a good job locally, talking about

:33:26.:33:28.

issues that matter to local people. Things like affordable housing,

:33:29.:33:32.

child care, the fact that living is getting harder for most people. Why

:33:33.:33:38.

is it that a lot of people didn't know who their candidates were and

:33:39.:33:43.

what they were doing locally? Milton Keynes is a huge city with 19 seats

:33:44.:33:47.

up for election. It is difficult to get across to everybody in the city

:33:48.:33:51.

what we are talking about. What we do have local fights and we are

:33:52.:33:55.

trying to get out there. We spoke to 1000 people at the weekend. We are

:33:56.:34:02.

listening to what people say. If you are in power, and many people I

:34:03.:34:05.

spoke to yesterday said, local elections, I am not that fast, I

:34:06.:34:10.

will use it to send the government a bloody nose -- not that bothered

:34:11.:34:14.

about it. It means whatever you're doing, they are judging you on

:34:15.:34:18.

completely different, they are not even judging you. We do get that

:34:19.:34:23.

message on the doorstep at times but I den think they are being as

:34:24.:34:26.

judgemental on this government as others may have been -- I don't

:34:27.:34:32.

think. They are saying national policies are helping malting

:34:33.:34:35.

Keynes. We are getting others saying they appreciate what we have done

:34:36.:34:40.

locally. -- helping Milton Keynes. People who may have voted a

:34:41.:34:43.

different weights are saying, you have done a good job and we support

:34:44.:34:51.

you. -- who have voted a different way. Is it a failure of local

:34:52.:35:00.

government to explain what it does? Or is it a failure of the press to

:35:01.:35:05.

promote local elections... We are here, now! You are complaining! I am

:35:06.:35:11.

saying that you talk a lot about European elections and general

:35:12.:35:13.

elections in the run-up, local elections are often portrayed as the

:35:14.:35:18.

referendum on what is happening nationally. They are not bad. Local

:35:19.:35:23.

elections affect people more on the ground in the locality where they

:35:24.:35:27.

live than any other elections. -- they are not that. It is people who

:35:28.:35:34.

vote to say, I don't see them as important as other types of election

:35:35.:35:37.

and don't seem to get the idea of what you can and can't do for them.

:35:38.:35:42.

We can do lots. The government has made it far more to God for us to

:35:43.:35:47.

implement affordable housing. The government is failing on childcare.

:35:48.:35:51.

These issues come across on the doorstep, they want to know what we

:35:52.:35:54.

are going to do about them. That is why we do it out onto the doorstep.

:35:55.:36:00.

I was talking to somebody and other day who voted Labour and

:36:01.:36:02.

Conservative in the past and was thinking about voting UKIP. When we

:36:03.:36:09.

said why, he didn't know. There is the question, are you both worried?

:36:10.:36:13.

A lot of people think you should both be worried of the fact that

:36:14.:36:16.

people don't necessarily know what they are for, but they are thinking

:36:17.:36:23.

about voting for them. The media have had a love affair for UKIP, now

:36:24.:36:27.

it seems they love to hate them. What have they got to offer locally?

:36:28.:36:30.

Absolutely nothing. They have no local politicians, they have one

:36:31.:36:35.

policy, to withdraw from Europe. Why would you ever vote UKIP in a local

:36:36.:36:41.

election? Thank you very much. We will be speaking to a UKIP candidate

:36:42.:36:45.

and the Lib Dems later. Join us later.

:36:46.:36:50.

And you can find a list of all the candidates standing

:36:51.:36:53.

in the local elections in Milton Keynes on the council's website -

:36:54.:36:56.

Sally Morgan, were you surprised that people viewed local elections

:36:57.:37:20.

as more important? I think it varies. I think it does vary from

:37:21.:37:25.

counsel to counsel. If councils are effective and capture the big mood

:37:26.:37:31.

locally, people support them. Sometimes that is by symbolic

:37:32.:37:36.

policies. Even in the constraints of the current position... I spoke to

:37:37.:37:41.

somebody last night, literally in the pub after a meeting, who lived

:37:42.:37:47.

in Southwark. He was saying, I think the council getting their act

:37:48.:37:50.

together, they are going to offer free gym membership. That was

:37:51.:37:53.

interesting, they were using their health and well-being money to do

:37:54.:37:57.

something interesting and symbolic, and bluntly, eye-catching, and

:37:58.:38:03.

saying, we want it to be really active in terms of doing something

:38:04.:38:08.

interesting on the health agenda. Sometimes an city council -- and

:38:09.:38:17.

imaginative counsel can spell out policies in an effective way --

:38:18.:38:19.

sometimes Annan Our guest of the day - Baroness

:38:20.:38:26.

Morgan - is the chair of Oftsed, the But she'll only be in the job

:38:27.:38:30.

for a few more months. Earlier this year a row broke out

:38:31.:38:35.

over the Education Secretary's the Education Secretary, Michael

:38:36.:38:45.

Gove, has confirmed that the Labour peer, Lady Morgan, who chairs

:38:46.:38:51.

Ofsted, will not be given a second spell in the post.

:38:52.:38:55.

The spell in the post.

:38:56.:38:58.

of making a determined effort to put Tory supporters in charge of public

:38:59.:39:02.

bodies. The claim has been made by Baroness Morgan after she was told

:39:03.:39:07.

she would not be reappointed as the head of state. It was a huge shock

:39:08.:39:12.

for Baroness Morgan come in the Bitcoin

:39:13.:39:19.

It became a huge story because Sally establishment.

:39:20.:39:27.

It became a huge story because Sally Morgan decided to take it not lying

:39:28.:39:32.

down. She went on the airwaves to denounce Michael Gove and Downing

:39:33.:39:36.

Street for taking the decision on party political grounds. I am the

:39:37.:39:41.

latest of a fairly long list of people who are nonconservative

:39:42.:39:48.

supporters who are not being reappointed. I think there is a

:39:49.:39:50.

pattern and it is extremely worrying. One of the important

:39:51.:39:54.

things is that public appointments are made on the basis of merits.

:39:55.:39:58.

Sally Morgan knows all about politics, she was once a senior aide

:39:59.:40:05.

to Tony Blair. She was 180 degrees wrong in that the Tories were

:40:06.:40:08.

stuffing quangos with Tories. More Labour people get appointed and

:40:09.:40:14.

Tories. She will think she has got a pretty good media hit, she is

:40:15.:40:17.

eloquent, she got her message across, she lit up the sky that

:40:18.:40:20.

Saturday warning and did not get much criticism. The Education

:40:21.:40:30.

Secretary Michael Gove praised Sally Morgan and denied it was a little

:40:31.:40:34.

move. I appointed her in the first by snowing she was Labour. We have

:40:35.:40:38.

move. I appointed her in the first Labour adviser to head the NHS. --

:40:39.:40:47.

move. I appointed her in the first appoint on merit. Applications for

:40:48.:40:49.

the new chair of Ofsted have now closed and no one will be more

:40:50.:40:52.

interested in who gets the job than the outgoing chair, Sally Morgan.

:40:53.:41:04.

And of course Sally Morgan is still with us.

:41:05.:41:06.

And of course Sally Morgan is still

:41:07.:41:11.

I said there was an inclination for nonconservative to be put into

:41:12.:41:17.

posts. I said what I needed to say at the time. My absolute commitment

:41:18.:41:25.

is to hope Ofsted goes from strength to strength. At the end of the clip

:41:26.:41:29.

you said, I am interested in who gets the post. That is because I

:41:30.:41:33.

wanted to be somebody who really cares and understands why Ofsted is

:41:34.:41:37.

important and can work well with the chief inspector. You said you

:41:38.:41:44.

anxious about that pattern. I am anxious about any suggestion that

:41:45.:41:48.

decisions are not being made on capability and merit. If we have

:41:49.:41:52.

public appointments, they must always be seen to be made on merit

:41:53.:41:58.

and must be made on merit. I had a concern that wasn't happening. Do

:41:59.:42:06.

you still have that concern? I hope that in a sense by raising the

:42:07.:42:09.

issue, possibly there is a bit more focus. What was the evidence to

:42:10.:42:17.

support your concern? Fraser Nelson said the government will actually

:42:18.:42:21.

appointing more Labour people to various quangos or government

:42:22.:42:26.

agencies. I am not in favour of any government placing people into

:42:27.:42:29.

things. It is entirely inappropriate. If Labour put people

:42:30.:42:33.

in who were not appropriate, would have condemned that as well. What is

:42:34.:42:39.

very important is that important positions are made on the basis of

:42:40.:42:44.

merit regardless of politics. It is not to say Conservatives should not

:42:45.:42:49.

get it, I rarely clear about that. If a strong conservative person with

:42:50.:42:52.

a commitment to education, who gets on well and constructively and can

:42:53.:42:56.

give support to an extremely good chief expected, -- inspector, that

:42:57.:43:02.

is fine by me. The important thing is the right people are appointed

:43:03.:43:06.

who can take is organisations forward. There's not much point in

:43:07.:43:10.

having independent unless they are independent. My absolute commitment

:43:11.:43:16.

now and when I finish is the importance of Ofsted and I will

:43:17.:43:23.

continue to support it from outside. Let's have a look at the Department

:43:24.:43:26.

of education. It doesn't seem to have been a happy ship. There was a

:43:27.:43:33.

divide between the Lib Dems and Conservatives, more recently there

:43:34.:43:38.

has been a row over free school meals, what is your view? There is a

:43:39.:43:48.

lot of noise and it is partly a symptom of being in the last year of

:43:49.:43:53.

a coalition government. I think the differences on education, across all

:43:54.:43:58.

of the parties, are not that great. You can either choose to make them

:43:59.:44:01.

significant or you can say, there is a lot of consensus. What I would

:44:02.:44:09.

say, briefings, public rows, private leaking of things, is not a good way

:44:10.:44:16.

to run a government. I would have to say as a teacher, get your house in

:44:17.:44:20.

order, it is not very good way to be running education. You think the

:44:21.:44:26.

parties are much closer and some of it is manufactured in terms of the

:44:27.:44:30.

differences. Are you happy and clear with what Labour's policy is

:44:31.:44:34.

regarding free schools. Completely. Between all the parties, there is

:44:35.:44:37.

not that much difference on free schools. Labour's position is clear,

:44:38.:44:42.

labour supports free schools, it may call them something different. Why

:44:43.:44:49.

not just call them academies, because they are academies? That was

:44:50.:44:55.

the beginning of a symbolic noise in the system. Because free schools

:44:56.:44:59.

have the same funding arrangements as academies. Free schools are a new

:45:00.:45:04.

form of academies with a different name. Apart from that they are not

:45:05.:45:09.

different. The issue that Labour and the Lib Dems, probably, is when

:45:10.:45:14.

things are tough, when money is tight, who should decide where free

:45:15.:45:17.

schools are and where should they be? Should they be in areas of need?

:45:18.:45:28.

That is where the parties differ? Should the teachers be qualified?

:45:29.:45:32.

Tristram Hunt has been clear about that. His view is that teachers

:45:33.:45:38.

should be qualified. My view is that people do not necessarily have to be

:45:39.:45:41.

qualified when they walk into a classroom but over time people

:45:42.:45:45.

should get qualified. Actually, you are always going to have music

:45:46.:45:51.

teachers and extra sports teachers who are not. There is a big divide.

:45:52.:45:59.

I think there are not many unqualified teachers in any school

:46:00.:46:04.

including private schools. What about inspecting private schools. Is

:46:05.:46:09.

that an appropriate role for Ofsted? I'm sure if I was talking to the

:46:10.:46:14.

chief finance he would say, as long as we get the funding! I think that

:46:15.:46:20.

is an interesting idea. I am pleased that Michael Gove suggested it. When

:46:21.:46:23.

we have such a varied system now as we do, with free schools and with

:46:24.:46:28.

academies and with maintained schools and independent schools, and

:46:29.:46:31.

nobody is very clear about at all, what is the thing parents can hold

:46:32.:46:36.

on to? They can hold onto Ofsted viewing all schools in the same way

:46:37.:46:41.

through the same prism. That is not the case for independent schools. I

:46:42.:46:44.

suspect quite a lot of good heads and parents would have a view that

:46:45.:46:50.

it is well come across the whole system. Ofsted is evolved into an

:46:51.:46:56.

investigation in Birmingham, the so-called Trojan horse plot, do we

:46:57.:47:02.

know when they will be able to publish their report? I think it

:47:03.:47:06.

will be next week. I am really pleased that Michael was sure took a

:47:07.:47:11.

personal view on the whole thing. He will report on that next week. And

:47:12.:47:19.

the academies trust will be the first one to close? What is really

:47:20.:47:25.

important is and what of the key issues going forward is, where is

:47:26.:47:29.

the oversight of schools around the country? People need to know where

:47:30.:47:33.

to turn to if they are concerned? At the moment, the only place people

:47:34.:47:37.

know about is Ofsted but there needs to be something else between the

:47:38.:47:40.

Department and between the individual schools.

:47:41.:47:45.

More now on the local election campaign. Giles is in Milton Keynes.

:47:46.:47:53.

These days it is a much more colourful political spectrum. There

:47:54.:47:55.

is yellow in government for the first time and there is purple on

:47:56.:48:00.

the map. Our Conservative spokesperson took no time at all to

:48:01.:48:06.

dig into UKIP. Stuart Moore is standing for them. Robin Bradburn is

:48:07.:48:11.

standing for the Lib Dems. We pretty much know now what UKIP stand for in

:48:12.:48:15.

national terms, they have been great clear about that, what you do

:48:16.:48:20.

locally? What is your policy on schools admissions or clearing the

:48:21.:48:25.

beans, recycling? The first thing we will do in local government is

:48:26.:48:28.

listen to the people and use a bit of common sense. Our local policies

:48:29.:48:34.

have been on our website for over four months now. They have been

:48:35.:48:38.

published by the North Branch and the South Branch. The problem is,

:48:39.:48:42.

people have been given rhetoric. the South Branch. The problem is,

:48:43.:48:48.

They do not understand we are a serious threat. Our policies include

:48:49.:48:53.

protection of schools, investing in schools, helping more senior

:48:54.:48:57.

citizens who are not as well. Can you do that if you do not win the

:48:58.:49:01.

council and you will not win the council, will you? We can make a

:49:02.:49:06.

very, very serious difference. At the moment, we will either be in a

:49:07.:49:11.

conservative or a Labour council. We can make a serious impact and not

:49:12.:49:13.

let them can make a serious impact and not

:49:14.:49:25.

they have made so far. One of the things is it is hard for you to go

:49:26.:49:29.

on the doorstep and say, that was asked when it might have been all of

:49:30.:49:33.

you, how would you make a difference on the doorstep? We make a

:49:34.:49:39.

difference because we contact the residents all year round. In Milton

:49:40.:49:45.

Keynes we produce a document which we sent around every four weeks. A

:49:46.:49:49.

lot of people do not know what their local councillors do. We try and

:49:50.:49:54.

inform them. It is an education process. You put the information

:49:55.:49:58.

before them and then they make their decisions. Isn't it true that a

:49:59.:50:03.

smaller party in with a coalition government for the first time, it

:50:04.:50:06.

does not matter what you do, you will get voted on because of what is

:50:07.:50:10.

happening with Nick Clegg in government rather than you in Milton

:50:11.:50:11.

Keynes? We all appreciate that government rather than you in Milton

:50:12.:50:16.

we work hard for the community. Things

:50:17.:50:23.

we work hard for the community. in Milton Keynes. We will push that

:50:24.:50:27.

information to the voters so they can understand that we work for the

:50:28.:50:31.

community, not just for election advantage at this time. I do not

:50:32.:50:34.

community, not just for election know if you have said anything daft

:50:35.:50:37.

but some of your fellow councillors have, how much damage is that

:50:38.:50:40.

but some of your fellow councillors for you? No no matter what party you

:50:41.:50:42.

are in, for you? No no matter what party you

:50:43.:50:46.

something really daft then it will make a difference. But I think most

:50:47.:50:52.

people will have a certain degree of more common sense. I they voting for

:50:53.:50:55.

you or are they voting not for more common sense. I they voting for

:50:56.:51:02.

others? I think it is a combination. Some of them are fed up and they

:51:03.:51:06.

want change. Some new voters are coming to us because what we say a

:51:07.:51:09.

sense. Do you miss coming to us because what we say a

:51:10.:51:13.

party? The point is, coming to us because what we say a

:51:14.:51:17.

for UKIP does not get things done. When you vote for us, we get things

:51:18.:51:25.

done. The local administration at the moment have renege on the pink

:51:26.:51:29.

sank recycling by reducing the number that are available. Our

:51:30.:51:30.

record of being the top 57% number that are available. Our

:51:31.:51:36.

in the country is under jeopardy because of a decision. It

:51:37.:51:39.

interesting enough. You may think pink sacks and mowing

:51:40.:51:41.

interesting enough. You may think a bit parochial but when you talk to

:51:42.:51:45.

people, that is the sort of things they notice and the things in local

:51:46.:51:53.

elections which actually count. That is it, Jo.

:51:54.:51:55.

day in Milton Keynes.

:51:56.:51:58.

And you can check out all the candidates standing for

:51:59.:52:01.

Milton Keynes council at www.milton-keynes.gov.uk

:52:02.:52:05.

Now - is Ed Miliband the kind of guy you'd like to have

:52:06.:52:08.

I ask because Ed Balls has felt the need to make it clear that he and Ed

:52:09.:52:15.

have enjoyed a few beers together, having previously said they had

:52:16.:52:18.

So why are top politicians so keen to be seen as someone

:52:19.:52:23.

In a moment we'll discuss that. First though, take a look at this.

:52:24.:52:38.

Have a look at that colour. And cheers. They have already started

:52:39.:53:17.

talking. I'm joined now by Alex Bull,

:53:18.:53:20.

brewmaster of the By The Horns brewery, the wine and beer critic,

:53:21.:53:23.

Oz Clarke, and Chair of the all-party group

:53:24.:53:25.

on beer, the Conservative MP, Why is it so important for

:53:26.:53:39.

politicians to be seen as the sort of person you would like to be with

:53:40.:53:43.

down the pub? of person you would like to be with

:53:44.:53:45.

down I think it is about likeability. Having a pint of beer

:53:46.:53:50.

is one of life's simple pleasures. If a politician can demonstrate they

:53:51.:53:53.

are the sort of guy you would want to have applied with, then they are

:53:54.:53:57.

the sort of person you would trust to take decisions to in government.

:53:58.:54:03.

I was going to say, also, we have demonstrated that MPs do get it,

:54:04.:54:08.

they do understand that British beer is a great fantastic product, our

:54:09.:54:12.

pubs are important to our communities and it is not just about

:54:13.:54:17.

posing and being seen with applied in your hand like Nigel Farage, it

:54:18.:54:21.

is about supporting British pubs and British beer which is so important

:54:22.:54:26.

to our communities. Let's talk about the issue of likeability. Alex, we

:54:27.:54:31.

have a range of beers here. If we think about the leaders of the main

:54:32.:54:36.

political parties, which one do you think would suit which party leader?

:54:37.:54:45.

We will start with our Stiff Per Lit. We will pay this with Ed

:54:46.:54:50.

Miliband which is not what you might think -- stiff upper lip. The

:54:51.:54:56.

gentleman on the front has a likeness. It is a light ale, 3.8%

:54:57.:55:06.

and probably more akin to the sum of the week nature of how he presents

:55:07.:55:13.

himself at times. You are making political comments! Pass it over to

:55:14.:55:19.

Oz Clarke. See if the flavour matches the personality that you

:55:20.:55:23.

think of Ed Miliband. I had not thought of stiff upper lip. I

:55:24.:55:27.

thought of an upper lip that goes like this, not stiff. I want to see

:55:28.:55:33.

if there is a bit of finish to the beer or not. It is very well

:55:34.:55:42.

balanced. Are you sure this is Ed Balls beer? The bitterness in it is

:55:43.:55:49.

maybe the bitterness of a good loser. Sally Morgan, you will have

:55:50.:55:54.

something to say about that! How cruel. It refreshes you. Maybe some

:55:55.:56:04.

of Ed's remarks have refreshed. Let's go on to Diamond Geezer. This

:56:05.:56:18.

Is Nick Clegg. He Is A Happy Guy This May Sway With Who Is Winning.

:56:19.:56:33.

They are both diamond geezers. It is much rounder. Are you sure this is

:56:34.:56:45.

Nick Clegg? It is very self-confident. Nick Clegg does have

:56:46.:56:50.

an amazing ability to be self-confident. It is nice and

:56:51.:56:55.

multi. The bitterness is much less on this. Still refreshing. -- nice

:56:56.:57:02.

and malty. We will be interesting to hear where the comments go as he

:57:03.:57:11.

drinks more and more! In a macro -- this represents David Cameron. It is

:57:12.:57:25.

called the Lambeth walk. I am not sure about that. I do not think Ken

:57:26.:57:30.

Livingstone would allow David Cameron to promenade in amber unless

:57:31.:57:36.

he has a nice house in Kennington. I will come back briefly to Andrew

:57:37.:57:41.

Griffiths. Talking about beers and pubs, does it put of female voters?

:57:42.:57:48.

No, more and more women are drinking cask ale. I have enjoyed a pint of

:57:49.:57:53.

beer with David Cameron. He likes a nice ale. George Osborne was the

:57:54.:57:58.

first chancellor in history to cut beer duty twice in successive years.

:57:59.:58:05.

Well done for getting that in! Nice, chunky, London Porter,

:58:06.:58:10.

presumably able to take the weight of the country on his shoulders.

:58:11.:58:19.

Very briefly the last one. The last one is Wolf E Smith. It is for Nigel

:58:20.:58:24.

Farage. The beer it self is a amber ale. It is perhaps a bit of a

:58:25.:58:33.

dreamer this beer. I liked his paws. Go on, what do you think? This is a

:58:34.:58:40.

good dream. It is wonderfully aromatic, it is beautifully bitter.

:58:41.:58:44.

It has a citrus lime and lemon zest quality. It may be Nigel Farage's

:58:45.:58:51.

aftershave. If this is Nigel, wow. Cheers for all of you. We have just

:58:52.:58:56.

got time to find the answer to our quiz. What did Ed Miliband spend 70

:58:57.:59:11.

to ?80 in a week, was it he, groceries and a travel or mobile

:59:12.:59:20.

phone chargers. I think it is groceries. Thanks to Sally Morgan

:59:21.:59:24.

and all our guests. Andrew and I will be here at new and. -- new net

:59:25.:59:31.

tomorrow. Goodbye.

:59:32.:59:33.

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