Browse content similar to 09/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:36. | :00:37. | |
Five schools put in special measures for failing to do enough to protect | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
How were these problems in Birmingham missed? | :00:42. | :00:50. | |
After last week's public spat, the Prime Minister chairs | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
a Cabinet extremism task force in Downing Street to discuss | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
Hundreds of new councillors were elected last month. | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
Has this volunteer workforce got any idea what they're doing? | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
And his or her master's voice - the perils of being a special advisor. | :01:05. | :01:17. | |
Let's start this morning with allegations | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
of Islamic extremism infiltrating several Birmingham schools. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
Later on today, Ofsted will publish their reports on the | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
emergency inspection of 21 schools embroiled in | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
the so-called Trojan Horse plot to promote a strict | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
It's expected that six schools will be put into special measures, | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
a move which could result in their governing bodies being | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
It comes after some Birmingham schools put | :01:46. | :01:51. | |
on hastily arranged lessons and assemblies on Christianity to | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
give a false impression to inspectors of religious harmony. | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
In future schools will may not get the usual 24 hours notice as | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
David Cameron pushes for lightning inspections after schools were found | :02:05. | :02:08. | |
to have axed part of the curriculum, segregated boys and girls and had | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
unsuitable religious speakers at assemblies. | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
David Cameron has now personally taken charge of the situation after | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
the very public fallout between Education Secretary Michael Gove | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
Mr Gove's allies accused Ms May of failing to | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
"drain the swamp" of extremism, while the Home Office responded | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
by saying they'd warned Michael Gove about the schools in 2010. | :02:37. | :02:42. | |
This morning the Park View Educational Trust | :02:43. | :02:44. | |
confirmed that three of its schools were now in special measures. | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
Vice-chair David Hughes told the gathered media that | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
the Ofsted condemnation of his schools was unfair. | :02:52. | :03:00. | |
The problem is the knee jerk reactions of some politicians | :03:01. | :03:11. | |
undermining the great work we do in community cohesion across the | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
cities. They have put most children at substantial risk of not being | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
accepted as equal, legitimate and valued members of British society. | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
They have allowed suspicion to be cast on the aspiration of their | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
parents and any other one -- anyone else who believes that these | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
children deserve the same level of education than any other child. Was | :03:35. | :03:45. | |
our national security under threat from these schools? It would appear | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
not. There is a big difference between radicalisation leading to | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
worries about security, which is the Home Secretary's early work, and the | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
issues around whether teaching is acceptable, is it part of a broader | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
liberal curriculum, is there something going wrong in the school | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
and its values? Obviously, that is what we are dealing with here and we | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
are dealing with it in a muddled way. The education funding agency | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
did not have a really in this area because their job is funding. The | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
inspection regime is about quality of education, including the | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
curriculum, but we also have trusts where they don't have to follow the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
national curriculum because Michael Gove has got a two track policy. | :04:33. | :04:39. | |
Only schools granted as community schools have to legally follow the | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
national curriculum. We are looking at a number of schools that were | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
academies that you championed as Education Secretary. The whole point | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
of these schools is freedom to be distinct, freedom to set their own | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
emphasis on the national curriculum, to employee teachers | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
that were not necessarily qualified. Those freedoms have come back to | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
bite you and this administration. I am happy to accept any | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
responsibility for what I did but mine were freedoms to, not freedoms | :05:14. | :05:20. | |
from. All schools had to adhere to a light touch national curriculum and | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
I am recommending in my report that we had to return to that. There is | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
innovation and creativity but there is an entitlement for all children | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
to have that basic curriculum. Also, that there should be local oversight | :05:34. | :05:42. | |
but there is nothing apart from the Secretary of State and the | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
Department. The lack of responsibility at local level, other | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
than from the school governors and the Secretary of State, isn't | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
working. Do you think that that has to be revisited? You have outlined | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
what you think is necessary in terms of having oversight. I come back to | :06:01. | :06:03. | |
the argument, it was supposed to be free from local authority control. | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
Did you accept that the problem with that has been that you can have a | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
situation which has occurred in some Birmingham schools, or that is what | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
is being claimed, that you can have groups of people trying to take over | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
schools that do not fit with what some people would call British | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
values and British culture? There are two Mike Berry separate issues. | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
Whether schools should run themselves and whether we should | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
have a national curriculum that underpins the kind of values we | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
presume we all hold in common, whatever our faith. I think today, | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
we have got to distinguish between radicalisation that is out with what | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
we would find acceptable in any school and a legitimate right for | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
those of different faiths to have their values and their voice heard. | :06:55. | :07:04. | |
There is a difference. I am involved in the publication of a book about a | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
different view of the Prophet Muhammad, about the view of Islam, | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
which can set with and be part of an interfaith community in a perfectly | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
acceptable way. We have got to establish that. Otherwise, we are | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
going to have a two tier system where you can have very strong | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
Christian views but not strong Muslim views and the two must be | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
allowed to sit alongside each other. We are just going to pause and go to | :07:33. | :07:45. | |
Birmingham. Some of the representatives, particularly from | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
Park View Academy, have been robust in their defence and have rejected | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
the findings into their schools. They said inspectors were looking | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
for extremism, but it was a knee jerk reaction from politicians. What | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
is the feeling you are? I am in a part of Birmingham which is almost | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
entirely Muslim in terms of its population. Most of the schools have | :08:08. | :08:13. | |
a Muslim population of 95 to 100%. The people that run the schools say | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
that naturally, they reflect that local community and there will be an | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
Islamic ethos in there. Other people criticised that imposition of | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
religious ethos in what is supposedly non-faith schools. What | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
you heard this morning was a strong defence of this scope from the vice | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
chairman of the governors and one of the senior teaching staff. # of this | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
school. They have been speaking about this for three months either | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
via social media or in the papers are on-air, ever since this first | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
emerged. This particular school, which is seen as being at the centre | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
of this alleged plot, has tonight there was a plot in the first place | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
and points to its excellent exam assault and says, here we are in | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
inner-city Birmingham, an area with traditionally low aspiration and | :09:05. | :09:06. | |
deprivation, and look at the exam results and how good the children | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
are when they leave and go on to A-levels. They are facing having | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
governors sacked, the body of leadership having to leave the | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
school? That is exactly right. There are six schools which will be put | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
into special measures including this one and another two who are part of | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
the same academy trust. That means an interim executive board can be | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
brought into the school to take over the running of it. Incidentally, in | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
another part of the city today, there is an Islamic faith school, | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
state funded, where and IEP is trying to get in for the fourth time | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
since it was put into special measures and on each occasion the | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
school has refused to them in, parents have gathered outside to | :09:55. | :09:57. | |
form a human chain to stop that happening. I would not be surprised, | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
frankly, given the strength of feeling in this community, if you | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
would not see similar pictures outside schools like this when those | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
inspectors turn up to try and take over. Let's pick up on one of those | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
points. If you are looking at the schools, what Ofsted was there to do | :10:18. | :10:25. | |
was check how well the school was doing and look at exam results. What | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
the leadership team are saying Park View Academy is that they are doing | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
extremely well, it is beacon of hope. They said, why are we being | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
condemned? Are they ignoring the acquisitions of segregation, error | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
for Brits because at assemblies, a hastily arranged assembly about | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
Christianity? There has been a lot going on which is unacceptable. Exam | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
results are important but only one part of the measure of what is | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
taking place in a school. The recommendations put forward six | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
weeks ago were that you should have an entitlement to a broad small | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
liberal curriculum everywhere, but there should be a director of school | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
standard who could oversee this at local level, that you | :11:19. | :11:19. | |
standard who could oversee this at local level, that should end up | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
training governors and have a means of monitoring governors in schools | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
and that you should have a scrutiny function from the local authority | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
that does not interfere with the leadership of the school or the | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
running of it, but checks what is happening. If that is happening, we | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
would be able to deal with these measures which is not going to -- in | :11:38. | :11:44. | |
a manner which is not going to cause friction such as that demonstrated | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
in Birmingham and the real fear of a stand-off between the Muslim | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
community and what they see is authority at with their own | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
experience. We have a task to pull people together. I hope that in the | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
statement in the, This afternoon there be a recognition about trying | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
to heal the wounds as well as protecting children. What do you | :12:07. | :12:14. | |
think of lightning expections? -- inspections? It is a way of | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
diverting attention from the fundamental issues about what values | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
do we want to instil in our schools, can we agree those across | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
faiths or no faith, can we ensure there is accountability and | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
oversight and can we sort out the model as to whether all schools just | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
run themselves and are completely independent, or whether we do want | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
the coalescing and avoid the atomisation that the chief inspector | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
talked about a few weeks ago? Thank you. | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
In last month's local elections 4,259 local councillors were | :12:52. | :12:54. | |
voted in, but do they know what they've got themselves into? | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
Eleanor's been to meet someone who's done the job for 12 years | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
and a man who's stepping into politics for the very first time. | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
From the outside of the town hall, I can't believe how many hours I spent | :13:08. | :13:15. | |
in meetings in the building. But I am really proud to have been part of | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
a team of people that turned Hackney Council round from a municipal | :13:20. | :13:30. | |
basket case into if reforming council. This councillor had decided | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
to stand down before last month's local elections. Why have you given | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
up? Nothing to do with politics. Surely personal reasons, because you | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
wanted to move house and I have young children, and I wanted to | :13:49. | :13:51. | |
spend more time with them. What are the things you are not going to | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
miss? It is quite liberating not to have things in your diary for four | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
years in advance and also, not to have to ask with Chief Whip of your | :14:02. | :14:04. | |
political group for permission to go on holiday. If you could give one | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
piece of advice to a newly elected councillor, what would it be? You | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
are a councillor for at least four years so it is a marathon rather | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
than a sprint. Lucas Pouille now, done it and got the T-shirt. But | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
down the road in Essex, I will meet a newly elected councillor. I wonder | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
if they know what they have let themselves in for? Graham Snell is | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
dipping his feet into politics for the first time, having just been | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
elected as Age UK councillor in Iraq. -- in their work. What do you | :14:39. | :14:53. | |
want to achieve? I want to try and make a difference to people's lives, | :14:54. | :14:55. | |
for the people in my make a difference to people's lives, | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
for the people ward. Hopefully it will pan out OK. Seeing as you are a | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
newly elected councillor, The Daily Politics loves a quiz, so we are | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
going to test you on your local knowledge - what town is Thurrock 20 | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
with? No idea. It is in Germany. You have lost me. Apparently it is | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
twinned with how many people live in the borough of Thurrock? That is | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
approximately 160,000. What is the motto of Thurrock? It is something | :15:31. | :15:41. | |
like - from the Thames to the rest of the world. I think you have | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
passed that test, well done. Graham has now become one of more than | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
eight team thousand councillors across England. The Local Government | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
Association says 96% are white and around two thirds are men. This is | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
the facility 's room, it is a bit of a cupboard under the stairs. This | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
used to be our office before we got some more people elected. I have | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
been lost so many times around here now... Like finding his office, | :16:19. | :16:25. | |
Graham's entrance into politics has taken a bit of time. I have not even | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
got my name on the door yet. And we are joined now by the chairman of | :16:33. | :16:35. | |
the Local Government Association, Sir Merrick Cockell. Welcome to the | :16:36. | :16:43. | |
programme. 4,259 new councillors - who helps them find their feet? MPs | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
always say when they first come to the House of Commons, they are lost. | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
Councils are pretty good, they plan ahead, and they all have induction. | :16:56. | :17:03. | |
I think we try not to inundate people the moment they become a | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
councillor. It goes on for several weeks and months, and they begin to | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
learn about how democracy works at a local level. What about when a | :17:11. | :17:18. | |
council changes hands overnight? You imagine this sudden shift of | :17:19. | :17:20. | |
ideology, which could affect services? Yes, I think when | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
political control happens, particularly when it is a shock, | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
then a lot of people are literally running around in the next few days. | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
But we have got those officers, like civil servants, and they prepare | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
ahead, like they do in government, they look to who might win and they | :17:42. | :17:47. | |
prepare. Although they might be relatively headless chickens for the | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
first day or two, actually, it settles down after that. But is | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
there a wholesale rejection of what has gone on before? Well, they watch | :17:58. | :18:07. | |
what is said in manifestos, but one has to say, there is not much money | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
around these days, so you may have grand ideas, but you have got to pay | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
for them, and if you want to change the way things are operating, have | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
got to have your other alternative. So, the flexibility of rapid | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
wholesale change I think is reduced. Looking at representation, | :18:29. | :18:38. | |
18,000 councillors, 96% white, two thirds, men, which is quite | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
staggering, what do you say to that? It is not good. It is something we | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
and all parts of local government and all of the political parties | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
recognise, you may reflect your individual area, but when you look | :18:54. | :18:55. | |
at the overall percentages, it is stark. And you have not even | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
included young people in that, the average age of a councillor. It is a | :19:01. | :19:11. | |
slow process, but we are trying to do it, to attract different types of | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
people. It takes up time to put your forward to be a councillor. It in | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
binges on your career, on your work. So people are more inclined to | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
be older, to be retired, and those who have more choice regarding their | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
time, which might push against people in the prime of their lives. | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
One big change is the growing number of UKIP councillors, with the party | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
gaining 155 seats, but a lot of people see UKIP as a party | :19:42. | :19:44. | |
determined to pull Britain out of Europe, so how will they get on in | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
local government? They have already been there, in local government. | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
They are part of our independent group within the Local Government | :19:55. | :19:56. | |
Association. They will have to learn what it is to be councillors have. | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
Cannot spend all your time talking about Europe, you have got to talk | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
about local public services. You have got to lead your community, | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
which includes education. These are big matters which councillors have | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
to be accountable for. To the public schools have a stranglehold on the | :20:18. | :20:23. | |
opera levels of British public life, and if so, how do you tackle the | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
problem? One Conservative MP wants at least a quarter of places to be | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
reserved for non-feepaying pupils. It would not be the first attempt to | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
break the class divide in our schools. This was a football match | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
between Eton and eight Durham miners' team in 1937. | :20:42. | :20:50. | |
NEWSREEL: The unemployed lads play regularly to keep themselves fit. | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
The home side get the upper hand and score the first goal. After tea, the | :20:58. | :21:08. | |
miners keep up the pressure, with the Italians trying to keep down the | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
ball. A great bit of footage. We are | :21:11. | :21:21. | |
joined now by the Conservative MP Dominic Raab, who has written a | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
report on how to make Britain more of a meritocracy. We are also joined | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
by the guardian columnist Owen Jones. I am afraid I left about | :21:29. | :21:37. | |
three months ago. Behind the times! Up until quite recently! The new | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
Britain is a meritocracy, said Tony Blair, in 1997 - what did he mean? | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
The term was actually invented as a dystopia, it was Michael Young who | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
invented it, to mean, basically, you accept inequality, but those who are | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
at the top, you accept to be there, because of merit. A hospital | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
cleaner, for example, paid the minimum wage, keeps our hospitals | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
from being ravaged by disease, compared to an advertising | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
executive, trying to sell us fast food, is paid vast amounts of money. | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
For me, it is about equality. The manic will not like this, but I do | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
think there is an audacity, shamelessness, in your position. | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
This is the day that the Child Poverty And Social Mobility | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
Commission has reported that by 2030, 3500 children will be in | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
poverty. The day that food banks have reported 300,000 children which | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
they are feeding at the moment, on the sixth richest country on the | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
Earth, because of policies you have voted for, and then you come to a TV | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
studio to vote for social mobility and meritocracy. It is like a robber | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
baron coming into a TV studio to talk about petty theft. This is the | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
usual left-wing dogma we get these days. 3000 children having to rely | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
on charity? There is a big issue with social mobility in this | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
country, we know that, if you come there today with the post-war | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
generation, the chances are significantly less, despite 13 years | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
of Labour. The evidence shows it remains stalled. Ed Miliband will | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
try to take us down the thesis that we should have this big Ella | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
Terri-Ann utopia, but actually, the Tories in the centre-right have won | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
the economic argument. They clearly haven't. You have presided over the | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
longest fall in living standards since the Victorian era. You call | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
that winning the argument! If you look at what the British public say | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
about what we are doing and the contrast in choice between Miliband | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
and David Cameron. You are behind in the polls! But I do accept there is | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
an issue around social fairness. Stewardship is the strength of the | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
Tories, but I do think we need a narrative around social fairness, | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
which should be rooted in meritocratic, not a Geller Terri-Ann | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
principles. By the way, I think all of Owen's statistics can be | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
disputed. -- not eat Geller Terri-Ann principles. Let's have a | :24:28. | :24:41. | |
look at schools. If you were given the task to create more social | :24:42. | :24:52. | |
mobility in education, Owen Jones, how would you do it? Firstly, it is | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
not just education, there are things like unpaid internships, which means | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
that only those who live off the bank of mum and dad can get a job. I | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
believe that Dominic Raab himself had an unpaid internship in 2011. | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
There is a gap in vocabulary between affluent kids and poor kids of 18 | :25:14. | :25:20. | |
months. We need huge weasels is put into early years of education. We | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
need to deal with the fact that housing is related to diet and | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
poverty. I went to a school, my primary school, which is in the | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
bottom 5% by result. The only boy to go to the sixth form, let alone | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
university, Moore went to prison. Not because I am brighter, but | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
because the odds were stacked in my favour. Is it not true that this was | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
suggested to the Government but they could not stomach it, putting all of | :25:55. | :26:06. | |
that money into early years? Look, I have got 13 measures here, you have | :26:07. | :26:16. | |
picked one of them. Early intervention is something we should | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
look at, but it is difficult when you start asking the state to become | :26:19. | :26:27. | |
sorry but parents. It is not that, it is just evening out the playing | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
field. We had 13 years of huge public investment... And are you | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
saying schools did not improve? I cannot speak for every school, but | :26:40. | :26:42. | |
if you look at the evidence on social mobility, it remains | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
stalled, that is what the LSE found. Secondly, if you look at the | :26:48. | :26:53. | |
rankings during that time, numeracy and literacy among 15-year-olds | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
plummeted. There is social mobility, but it is downwards, thanks to your | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
government. Your government is making it a lot worse. What might be | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
interesting is for Owen, rather than having cheap shots... Internships, | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
do you think it is acceptable for you as an MP to have unpaid | :27:16. | :27:25. | |
internships? What about entrenching wealth, is it not true that | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
actually, if you are the offspring of a family which has an expensive | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
home in London or the south-east, that you have got more chance of | :27:34. | :27:40. | |
succeeding... ? Absolutely. And I have got 13 concrete, tangible | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
ideas, rather than waiting for some utopian tomorrow. I am not talking | :27:44. | :27:52. | |
about utopia. I pay my in turns expenses so that they can compute | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
back and forth. I have no separate allowances for them. -- commute. You | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
are giving an advantage to people who can live off the bank of mum and | :28:03. | :28:11. | |
dad. Yes, there should be better staffing funding for internships, | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
quite right. There is a scholarship scheme, people like Hazel blears, to | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
her credit, have pioneered that. You are encouraging a situation where | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
only those who live off the bank of mum and dad can get into politics. | :28:28. | :28:36. | |
We will have two ended there. In a moment, we will talk to two of Fleet | :28:37. | :28:42. | |
Street Fox finest, outside Parliament, waiting to cover an | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
action packed week. This afternoon, Gordon Brown will beginning a speech | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
to journalists. Expect the Scottish referendum to be on the menu. David | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
Cameron flies to Stockholm for a meeting with his Swedish and Dutch | :29:00. | :29:02. | |
and German counterparts as he battles to stop Jean-Claude Juncker | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
from becoming president of the European Union. On Thursday, Michael | :29:09. | :29:09. | |
Gove will announce European Union. On Thursday, Michael | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
the next wave of free schools will be in England. And George Osborne | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
will give his Mansion house speech on the same day. On Friday, | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
constituencies in Liverpool and Cambridge will meet to decide | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
whether to support Nick Clegg or back a leadership contest. And the | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
great unknown is whether this week will see a full Cabinet reshuffle? | :29:33. | :29:39. | |
So, what more could you want? Joining us now is Alison Little and | :29:40. | :29:48. | |
Kevin Schofield, welcome to both of you. Let's talk about Michael Gove | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
and Teresa May. It is deemed in Westminster that Michael Gove won in | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
that spat - do you think Theresa May has been injured by it? House The | :29:58. | :30:10. | |
loss of Fiona Cunningham has been a big blow to her. It all went a bit | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
wobbly last week with unpleasant consequences for her. To Reza is | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
seen as the bigger loser in this, though it was put to me at the | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
weekend, somebody suggested that Theresa May could use this perhaps | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
to her advantage to show that she is ruthless enough to let go of one of | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
her closest advisers, perhaps sharing that streak that a leader | :30:34. | :30:41. | |
might need. I don't know if it can be spun that way. Has Michael Gove | :30:42. | :30:48. | |
overstepped the mark himself, and will he be seen as too hot to handle | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
in terms of his role as Education Secretary? He has been picking a few | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
fights of late and it has got the Prime Minister's back-up. Alison is | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
right. On the face of it it looks like Theresa May has been the | :31:04. | :31:09. | |
biggest loser. Michael Gove is going to have a tough challenge this | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
afternoon. Ofsted will publish their reports into these 21 Birmingham | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
schools and it is going to be up to him to prove that the government was | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
not asleep. That accusation is that he knew about this as far back as | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
2010 but did not know about it. He is not out of the woods yet. What | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
about the reshuffle? We were always going to expected this week. Does | :31:37. | :31:44. | |
that still stand? At the moment we are expecting an early next week for | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
various scheduling reasons, which probably means it has started now. | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
The money is on next week. There are calls for Michael Gove to be moved | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
in the reshuffle. There is a view that he should have more of a | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
Conservative Party role, perhaps the Cabinet Office or something like | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
that. People are saying he has started talking too much at meetings | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
and is annoying everybody. One thing any Prime Minister does not want is | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
a big row like we have just had. If he moves, -- one of the participants | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
in is portrayed in the context of the row. To move Michael Gove might | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
be like a punishment or a demotion so it is a tricky one. I would be | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
astonished if Theresa May was moved. I think she is widely seen as a | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
success. How angry is the Prime Minister with Michael Gove? When he | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
does this re-shuffle, he is unlikely to move Theresa May. This was always | :32:45. | :32:52. | |
supposed to be about promoting more women. Well that's still be the | :32:53. | :33:02. | |
point? -- will that still be? I think so. When you ask how angry the | :33:03. | :33:12. | |
Prime Minister is, him and Theresa May had to put out a joint statement | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
after the row with Michael Grove at eight o'clock in the morning. I | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
think he is a bit annoyed. In terms of the reshuffle it will be lower | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
down the Cabinet ranks and he will be looking to promote a few women. | :33:26. | :33:31. | |
There is still an idea that he has a woman problem. On the Liberal | :33:32. | :33:40. | |
Democrats and Nick Clegg's speech, everyone was interpreting it as a | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
lurch to the left. Is that how you see it? Yes, but he is trying to | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
steer this tricky course that he has got in coalition. It was called a | :33:51. | :33:59. | |
steer to the left because he said we would tax the rich and borrow from | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
investment, but he is also trying to make a division with Labour because | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
he is saying the borrowing would be good or a wink rather than that of | :34:08. | :34:20. | |
Gordon Brown. -- good borrowing. It is a strange situation in coalition. | :34:21. | :34:21. | |
Thank you both. We're joined now for the rest | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
of the programme by a panel of MPs. The Conservative, Chris Skidmore, | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
Labour's Anas Sarwar and Let's get back to | :34:30. | :34:31. | |
the story we started the programme with allegations of a Trojan Horse | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
plot at Birmingham schools. A headteacher said he had told the | :34:37. | :34:49. | |
Department of Education about the problems of entries in 2010, why did | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
Michael Gove do nothing? To start with we need to set out clearly what | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
is happening. The Ofsted reports published today are not saying there | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
is extremism flourishing in schools, Al-Qaeda are not taking over the | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
schools. To have this in context, we have got 21% of Ofsted reports being | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
published. The Prime Minister issuing firm need a ship about | :35:12. | :35:14. | |
setting out a course of action. I do not think we should blow this up to | :35:15. | :35:22. | |
saying this is a Trojan Horse with aggressive language. It is | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
detrimental to the fact that people want to set up schools, faith | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
schools with great discipline, and I do not want this to blow out of | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
proportion. Do you think it has been blown out of proportion by | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
Conservative ministers? No, I think the media has picked it up, the | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
language is inappropriate in a context where faith schools, the | :35:44. | :35:48. | |
vast majority do a great job in raising children with beliefs and | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
values that are right for this country. I do not want to see that | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
affected. Ofsted inspectors have been sent in to look at these | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
schools and the leadership teams from a number of these schools said | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
they came looking for extremism, they came looking for an Islamic | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
fundamentalist style being imposed on children. Why were they sent in | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
looking for those things in the first place? You cannot have one | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
argument and another saying nothing was done. There was clearly action | :36:20. | :36:28. | |
taken, appropriate action taken, and as a result... But nothing was | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
found, so why were they said then in the first place? The logical | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
argument does not make sense because no action was taken. The logic if | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
they should not have gone in in the first place. The schools are saying | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
it was not necessary and now a number have been put into special | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
measures where the leadership teams will be sacked and they were doing | :36:50. | :36:51. | |
well as far as Ofsted will be sacked and they were doing | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
concerned. That is a separate issue for Ofsted. | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
concerned. That is a separate issue measures may disagree but we have to | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
have and independent and accountable system where Ofsted can measure the | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
performance. Are they being infiltrated by Islamic | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
fundamentalists? The ministers have the facts. I have sympathy with what | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
Chris is saying and I share his views about the integrity of faith | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
schools and the importance of education. We have got ourselves and | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
a political mess when we should focus on the children. Who got us | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
into it? Samak two Cabinet ministers are playing politics instead of | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
focusing what is important, having quality education for our kids and | :37:40. | :37:46. | |
no extremism. Not demonising people. Have the been demonised by the | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
reports and the political context? I do not want to downplay the | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
seriousness of the allegations. If there is any hint of extremism being | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
taught anywhere, whether it is school, university or anywhere else, | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
it needs talented head-on. Two senior government ministers were too | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
busy focusing on their own internal squabbles because their political | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
futures are more important to them than rooting out extremism and | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
protecting all faiths and all communities, and protecting our | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
children. It is very un-edifying. We have allies of Michael Gove saying | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
Theresa May failed to three in the song of extremism. Is that how you | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
view it? I do not know who made those comments. I do not agree with | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
that at all. What is at issue is that the Home Office and the | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
Education Department clearly have joint responsibilities and it is | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
about hammering out those responsibilities. It is a process | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
issue. Once we come up with a solution we can, on positively. Do | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
you accept there is a difference between a security threat, people | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
who have been trained towards extremism, but on the other hand, if | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
you have schools who are seen as a broad breeding ground for policies | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
are cultural practices that don't fit in a British way of life, that | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
that is dangerous as well? These are separate issues and it is right that | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
both are reported. Faith schools of all faiths have a role to play in | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
our society and education system. Good one to recognise they need to | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
be forces for community cohesion will stop they need openness and | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
transparency for introducing people to different ideas they would not | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
otherwise encounter. That is good practice. We need to make sure that | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
they are not instead turned into silos and segregation. Have they | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
been? We will find out this afternoon. We have seen many | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
reports. You think that some of these schools have been in full | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
treated by Muslim extremists? I would not want to prejudge any | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
report. You have heard from the schools. Some of these are really | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
respectable schools doing hard work and a good job of education in their | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
local communities. For those names to be tarnished in such a way, it | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
could take years to get their reputation back. Is it wrong to put | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
them into special measures? There are a number of schools in special | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
measures he said have high standards of education. The best and so is to | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
base it on facts, let see how the experts judge what is happening in | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
these schools. Let's not base it on politics and power play. Is it not | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
the case that if you free schools from local education policies you | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
give them the freedom to set out the stink of education and are you | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
saying you don't like it and you're going to change it? The fact that we | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
now have schools setting up their own curriculum and flexible | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
curriculum is to teach and raise standards is vital for raising | :41:01. | :41:07. | |
standards. There are 85 free schools now, 26,000 local authority schools. | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
There are hundreds of local authority schools going into special | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
measures every year and there is an undue focus, just because the | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
enemies of freedom are turning around and trying push it in the | :41:19. | :41:25. | |
opposite direction. You said there was a lack of oversight. If warnings | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
were made in 2010 and the claim is that Michael Gove did not react at | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
the time, is that not because the drug of McCann runs" might whether | :41:37. | :41:46. | |
it is Michael Gove or his officials, it is run from London. Whether clues | :41:47. | :41:53. | |
that if you had looked specifically at Birmingham and provided local | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
oversight that could have flagged up these concerns earlier, those are | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
questions we need the answers to. That is what all MPs will be | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
listening very carefully to win the reports are published. Did Michael | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
Gove inflame the situation with the sort of language used? I do not know | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
whose language it was but it is inflammatory. It does not help | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
anyone to talk about draining the swamp. It does not address the issue | :42:19. | :42:24. | |
we have been focusing on. We want to sort out these problems. We need to | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
use language which is appropriate and which does not cause its own | :42:30. | :42:40. | |
brands. There have been other examples, that just because | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
something is a faith school, there is something wrong with that. I want | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
to see all of the schools treated on a level playing field. | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
The election results have forced all the parties to re-evaluate. Several | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
senior figures have questioned their strategy. The shadow work content | :43:07. | :43:09. | |
and Secretary Rachel Reeves warned last week that sometimes the party | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
took their traditional voters for granted. Now, they are being offered | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
an alternative by UKIP. Peter Hain said yesterday he thought Ed | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
Miliband could win the next election but it would be hard to get an | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
outright majority. Although I do not think UKIP will do | :43:27. | :43:32. | |
as well as they did in the European elections at the general election | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
next year, they will do sufficiently well and there will be other | :43:37. | :43:39. | |
parties, including the Liberal Democrats and the Greens, to make it | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
a much closer contest than perhaps we have been used to before. I think | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
that Ed Miliband is well placed to lead the government in the future | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
and when people see him as Prime Minister, they will realise that | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
they have elected the right person even if they do not see that at the | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
moment. Do you agree? He hinted that Labour's biggest problem is that | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
they do not see Ed Miliband as Prime Minister material? I agree with | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
Peter that Ed Miliband would be a fantastic Prime Minister. But the | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
voters do not see him as a potential prime ministers. -- primer missed a | :44:21. | :44:27. | |
. But if you look at the pathway we have taken from 2010, Ed Miliband | :44:28. | :44:34. | |
has done a fantastic job of commandeering the political agenda. | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
He has taken the lead and I agree with Peter. You could look at it the | :44:40. | :44:51. | |
other way and say, he is being realistic about Ed Miliband, and the | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
way he is viewed by the public. Rachel Reeves has said Labour has | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
been taking voters for granted, that is true, isn't it? I come from | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
Scotland and in Scotland we have had the defeat in 2010, and we | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
recognised that we lost elections for a reason. The electorate are | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
never wrong. We lost because we were not doing and saying the right | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
things. She is saying the core vote for Labour is beginning to drain | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
away, some of its two UKIP? I do not think UKIP will do anywhere near as | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
they did in the European elections. UKIP normally do well in these | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
European elections, it is an election which sadly some people see | :45:39. | :45:41. | |
as being something you can protest in. I think given the choice between | :45:42. | :45:52. | |
Ed Miliband and David Cameron, people will decide to back the party | :45:53. | :45:55. | |
which is looking out for workers, and looking out for fairness. So, | :45:56. | :46:02. | |
why has UKIP been attractive to SAM SMITH: | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
Voters in parts of the north? Do they think that Labour has not | :46:06. | :46:09. | |
answered their questions on issues like immigration? I think it is | :46:10. | :46:25. | |
because people are genuinely angry with the political establishment. | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
But you are not in government? They are angry with politicians of all | :46:32. | :46:35. | |
colour, the political establishment, the energy companies, the markets, | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
and they do not think the establishment works for them, and | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
that is the challenge for the Labour Party. Do you think you can get an | :46:43. | :46:53. | |
people do not want the status quo. The Labour Party has never been a | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
party of the status quo. But you Are a party of the political | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
establishment. Let's talk about the Liberal Democrats, and Nick Clegg is | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
about to make a speech, his first since the party's disastrous | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
performance in the local and European elections. We can see the | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
room filling up just before he comes to take the stand. He will be trying | :47:23. | :47:33. | |
to lay out a distinctive approach to tax and Duncan Hames, what is he | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
going to be saying? Well, I think he will reflect on the very bad results | :47:38. | :47:40. | |
that we had in the elections last month. But he will also look | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
forward, he will be racial in people that whilst we remain very much | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
committed to clearing up the mess in the public finances, that we do not | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
have some ideological desire to continue shrinking the state. But | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
rather, while we have done the job of bringing the public finances back | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
into the balance, we want to invest in a better future for the country, | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
invest in the infrastructure which will be underpinning future economic | :48:11. | :48:19. | |
prosperity. He will be able to spell out the areas where we will be | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
committed to investing in the future of the country. The things you could | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
not do when you came into government, with the rhetoric of | :48:29. | :48:37. | |
posterity, so was that all wrong? Early on in the Parliament, we | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
recognised that we needed to turn things around. Danny Alexander has | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
been championing investment in infrastructure. And future cuts? The | :48:47. | :48:55. | |
Conservatives are going to rely exclusively on cuts to welfare | :48:56. | :48:57. | |
spending, in order to balance the books. We think that is unfair, to | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
look just at the working age poor to balance the books in the future. We | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
are committed to a mansion tax, which will mean that some people | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
with the broadest shoulders will be asked... So people could be | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
expecting higher taxes when we go into the next election? We WILL be | :49:20. | :49:32. | |
asking for a mansion tax, yes. Duncan Hames, arguably, the Liberal | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
Democrats, after those disastrous, as you said, election results, have | :49:38. | :49:41. | |
realised that they have lost a lot of voters to Labour. They are now | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
going to return to the left to try to bring some of those people back | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
of the ones who came to you during the Iraq war period. We only got | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
about 1 million votes in these elections last month. The other | :49:56. | :50:01. | |
parties each did not get much more than 4 million votes. Actually what | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
we saw and where I agree with the analysis of Anas Sarwar earlier, is | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
that there is a large number of people despairing with all of the | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
political parties, they do not trust anyone of us to govern on our own | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
which is why I think it is likely that we will have another coalition. | :50:20. | :50:28. | |
Would you favour your two parties forming a coalition, on the basis of | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
a mansion tax, you want to cut less, you would tax a bit more, these are | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
things which are absolutely in line with what Duncan Hames is talking | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
about? We will be campaigning for an outright majority. Do you agree with | :50:44. | :50:50. | |
spending more on infrastructure? Absolutely. Do you believe in | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
cutting less? I believe we should be taxing more at the top. Do you | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
believe in a mansion tax? Absolutely. So, what is not to like | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
about the two of you in coalition? It is all about ideology, and what | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
people will be voting for. We cannot go back to reckless borrowing, we | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
have to have borrowing which is specifically intended to lay the | :51:17. | :51:25. | |
foundations for a better economy. Under the Labour government, any | :51:26. | :51:28. | |
item of expenditure would be described as investment. Could you | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
do a coalition with Labour? We would have to listen to the electorate. | :51:35. | :51:38. | |
And what about Nick Clegg, can he continue? Absolutely, and he had | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
unanimous support from his colleagues at our committee last | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
week. The political situation reminds me a little bit of Gordon | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
Brown. It is almost like a political death spiral. Is that where you | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
are? Nick Clegg is, not the Conservatives. I mean the coalition? | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
There is a need for the coalition to stay together in order to deliver | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
that economic stability, over five years. But we need to make sure that | :52:09. | :52:16. | |
we stay in coalition right up until May. You want Nick Clegg to use the | :52:17. | :52:29. | |
rest of his political life... He is on a political death spiral, you | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
want him to use the rest of his political life... That is | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
unfortunate, but it was probably due to the legacy of the Lib Dems' | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
manifesto, with the promise on tuition fees, which Nick Clegg | :52:44. | :52:49. | |
probably now regrets. Are they a Liberal party, are they a Social | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
Democratic Party? Until they resolve that, in the long term, I think they | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
will struggle. Fiona Cunningham, Theresa May's special adviser, has | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
fallen on has soared after getting involved in the spat train Theresa | :53:05. | :53:13. | |
May, her boss, and Michael Gove. -- has fallen on her sword. | :53:14. | :53:26. | |
MUSIC PLAYS. # You have got a friend in need. | :53:27. | :53:40. | |
# And you are miles and miles from your nice warm bed. | :53:41. | :53:50. | |
# You've got a friend in need. Yes, you've got a friend in need. | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
# You've got a friend in need. # You've got troubles, I've got | :53:59. | :54:11. | |
them, too. . # There isn't anything I wouldn't do | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
for you. # We stick together, see it through, | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
because you have got a friend in need. | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
# You've got a friend in need. For those of you who did not | :54:24. | :54:41. | |
recognise those advisers being thrust into the spotlight, they were | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
Damian McBride, Charlie Whelan, Jo Moore, Dominic Cummings and Fiona | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
Cunningham. We have not got time to tell you exactly what they all did! | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
We are joined now by Tony Blair's former special adviser, who managed | :54:57. | :55:00. | |
to avoid being sacked! Is it a thankless task? Look, the business | :55:01. | :55:06. | |
of government is by its nature political, and not just | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
administrative. You need to have political staff which are there as | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
well to assist the Secretary of State in their functions and carry | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
out those political duties. I do not think anyone goes into it with a | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
great sense of job security, but it is a fantastic privilege to do it. | :55:24. | :55:30. | |
Isn't the complaint about the Blair years, about sofa government, about | :55:31. | :55:34. | |
special advisers overstepping the mark? We saw Charlie Whelan and | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
Damian McBride, Gordon Brown's people, overstepping what they were | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
supposed to do in terms of negative preteens? If you look at Damian | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
McBride, it is pretty clear he was an representative of special | :55:51. | :55:52. | |
advisers as a whole. -- negative briefings. He did not represent the | :55:53. | :55:58. | |
kind of advisers which I saw when I was with the Labour government. If | :55:59. | :56:01. | |
you look at this story about Fiona Cunningham, ultimately, it is not | :56:02. | :56:08. | |
about one member of staff. It is a story about two senior politicians | :56:09. | :56:11. | |
manoeuvring for the Tory leadership at a time when they should be | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
focusing on what is a really important issue about what is | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
happening in the schools in Birmingham. Should she have been | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
sacked? I do not know the it seems Teresa May has come out worse, given | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
that it was Michael Gove that started it, with the briefings. But | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
Fiona Cunningham printed the letter, that was supposed to be crime, would | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
you have done that? I do not know the circumstances. We have seen | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
statements from Teresa May, and frankly, when ministers claim to be | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
shocked by what their special advisers have got up to, it is about | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
as credible as the captain in Casablanca, I have to say! So, in | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
your mind, special advisers are always acting on the say-so of their | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
ministerial bosses, even in the case of Adam Smith, claiming he acted | :57:07. | :57:09. | |
alone, not doing what Jeremy Hunt had told him to do, was he not | :57:10. | :57:16. | |
telling the truth? One criteria which marks out special advisers is | :57:17. | :57:24. | |
loyalty. You are an adviser to Michael Gove, is it the case that | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
you only do the bidding of the minister? I was an adviser in | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
opposition, paid for by the Conservative Party, not by the | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
taxpayer. I was political because I was working on behalf of the | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
Conservative Party. I think there is a distinction between the | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
personalities of special advisers. Some work on issues, some work on | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
press and communications. I worked on statistics and free schools | :57:53. | :57:59. | |
policy. But when it comes to being in government, you have a corporate | :58:00. | :58:04. | |
responsibility to make sure that you do not damage the government. If any | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
special adviser becomes the story, and does something inappropriate, | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
then I think they need to fall on their sword. Do you think Teresa May | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
will feel wounded without her special adviser? Well, it is a | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
lonely place. You have got thousands of civil servants, so the role of | :58:22. | :58:28. | |
the special adviser is to be that bridge, so yes, it probably will be | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
a lonely place. Are there too many special advisers, yes or no? I | :58:34. | :58:40. | |
cannot answer that one. Well, there is one fewer now. On that prophetic | :58:41. | :58:47. | |
note, we will end it there! The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC | :58:48. | :58:51. | |
One now, and I will be here again tomorrow. Former Home Secretary | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
Charles Clarke will be with me. Goodbye. | :58:57. | :59:07. | |
MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song" by the Flaming Lips | :59:08. | :59:07. | |
# Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah | :59:08. | :59:08. | |
MUSIC: "The Yeah Yeah Yeah Song" by the Flaming Lips | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
# Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah Yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah | :59:13. | :59:15. |