Andrew Neil discusses the next round of climate change talks with former energy minister Greg Barker and deputy Ukip leader Paul Nuttall.
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.
Ahead of world climate change talks in Paris next month, the UN issues
A major step forward, but not enough to meet keep global temperature
As thousands of people continue to try to cross into EU countries,
JoCo visits the frontline to see how countries are are coping.
It's become a key frontline in the crisis.
Up to 12,000 migrants have crossed this bridge every day
Earlier this week, he signed an agreement to give Scottish Labour
more autonomy and, today, Jeremy Corbyn addresses their conference.
We'll look at the scale of Labour's electoral challenge.
And was Nigel Farage right to compare the fall-out from Portugal's
recent elections with Soviet-era military interventions?
The Labour bigwig Stewart Wood who was, until May, a key Ed Miliband
lieutenant, who was at the former Labour leader's side
Let's kick off though with yesterday's House of Commons debate
on tax credits, which was tabled by the Labour MP Frank Field.
Breaking news, the last British resident to be held in Guantanamo
Bay has been released. Saudi national six Micro had been held in
military prison in Cuba since 2002 -- Shaker Ahmer. He has never been
charged or put on trial. 13 years, never been charged and he is finally
getting out. Rubber blade because they are bringing down Guantanamo
Bay. Perhaps this, perhaps, this is good news. He has children and one
of them he has never seen. I will be interesting to hear the plan for
when he comes back, whether he will be arrested. No indication they will
do that yet. They may still keep an eye on him. I expect one reason it
has taken so long is it sets a President for the 140 people left in
Guantanamo Bay which the American Congress and public opinion may have
mixed feelings about so that may have got in the way. This is
excellent news. Barack Obama wanted to close it down and he campaigned
in 2008. He is almost at the end of his second term now and it is still
that! In the first year, the American military blocked it in
Congress but hopefully this is the beginning of something more
permanent. He is coming back by chartered jet. Good for him. Into
London. He will not be met by his family, it will be warriors and
there will be a family reunion afterwards. We will follow that.
What major change is Jeremy Corbyn reported to have ordered
in the last week as a morale boaster for his staff?
c) The creation of Socialist banners and a flag room.
Or d) Turning his office into a chill-out zone?
And Stewart will hopefully give us the correct answer a little later
A report on climate change says the current proposals do not go far
enough to prevent audible temperatures rising by more than 2
degrees. The report says that
the current proposals do not go far enough to prevent global
temperatures from rising by more than two degrees, but they believe
the target is still within reach. Representatives from 196 countries
will gather in Paris at the end of November, with the aim of reaching a
legally-binding deal to cut carbon If a deal is reached,
a new global climate change treaty will come into effect in 2020
when the current commitments The last time the world came
together to discuss climate change, in Copenhagen in 2009,
the talks were branded chaotic. Leaders failed to reach
a legally binding deal, leaving the world on a pathway for
temperature rises of 3C and above. This time, the UN hopes that
the presence of world leaders on the first day of the summit will
spur on the negotiations. The UN say they are confident that
a deal will be reached, but expect that it will fall short
of the two degrees goal. Scientists have warned that even if
temperature rises are limited to two degrees, sea levels could still rise
by as much as six metres above their We can talk now to the BBC's
science editor, David Shukman. What do you make of the UN's
assessment? On the one hand, it is an amazing achievement that so many
countries had decided they will take part in this process. You mentioned
the Copenhagen summit in December 2009, I was there and it was a
dysfunctional event that ultimately led to failure. There was an attempt
to foist carbon reduction targets on different countries and they were
not willing to play ball. This completely new approach, bottom-up,
not top-down of inviting countries to create their own carbon reduction
plans and their own pledges, it in the jargon, the nationally
determined contributions, it has turned out well for the UN. There
was no guarantee anybody would play ball but we have 146 countries to
the beginning of this month and another ten in the last couple of
weeks, covering 86% of global emissions. Whatever happens next, in
a sense, there is an amazing vote of faith by these countries in the
process itself. It remains to be seen who keeps to their promises and
what they amount to. What is the minimum that has to happen in Paris
for it to be regarded broadly as a success? I think you need these
different pledges to be enshrined in legal text. That is a starting point
for many countries. And then there is a host of issues that will be
extremely difficult but do need to be sorted. For example, at the
moment, those pledges add up to emissions over the next 15, 20 years
that could keep the rising temperatures to below three degrees.
That is hailed as a success by the UN. What counts is what happens
after 2030, when this period runs out. Will there be a tough review
mechanism? Will everybody be under some kind Russia every five years
also to beef up their targets and do more? -- pressure. That is one big
area in Paris. The other is finance. Some of these pledges, notably India
and other developing countries, they have said they will cut emissions
but you, the rich world, you will help to pay for it. And there are
big price per -- and there are big price tags attached so no guarantee
the money will flow in that direction so no guaranteed they will
do what they say is feasible. Lots to sort out in Paris and I think
that is why tension is mounting in the run-up to that event because
nobody is totally sure how that will play out.
Thank you very much for mocking our cards today!
We've been joined by the former Conservative energy minister,
Greg Barker, who is now in the Lords and chairs the London Sustainable
Development Commission, and by UKIP's deputy leader, Paul Nuttall.
Welcome, both. Are you confident Paris will be more of a success than
Copenhagen? I think that is without a doubt. Copenhagen was not on any
terms a success. Not many people could have expected a couple of
years ago we would be a session to make progress in Paris. The reason
is the cost of Green energy has, tumbling down and we have had big
advances in technology and large economies can reduce a Kobane
emissions while still growing. The transition to a low carbon economy
in 2010 was a pipe dream. A hypothesis. Now it is happening and
in an affordable way. We need an ambitious deal in Paris. Still a
long way to go but things are looking more encouraging than they
did 12 months ago. On current projections, emissions will be 22%
higher in 2013 and in 2010. Globally, they will go up. But the
big news is that China, the world's largest emitter, will peak emissions
by 2030. That was almost thinkable in 2009 in Copenhagen. You have the
big developing economies who will dominate the economy of the
21st-century accepting they are part of the solution. And you do not have
this finger-pointing jihad in Copenhagen, it was all left to
Europe and the US -- that you had in Copenhagen. Everybody has a common
responsibility. And the UK plays a disproportionately important role in
these talks. We have the world's best climate because she tours who
get very little credit. -- best climate providers. What do you want
to happen in Paris? I would like to see a level playing field for the
British. At the moment, what happens at these climate change conferences
is Europe goes on ahead and they attempt to meet the targets and the
growing economies in China, India for example take no notice. As an
example, we are talking about the Chinese saying emissions will peak
at 2030, but to my office said the Chinese population will peak at 2030
and emissions generally get driven by population. That is mean minded.
Anybody who looks thoughtfully at this realises China's commitment and
I's engagement and clean energy and solar energy... -- India. The
Indians emit a 10th of the emissions of the US and these large economies
will grow and it is rightly should do so. It is not holding people down
in poverty. We have to have economic growth and do that in a clean way.
It also represents a huge opportunity for British business as
we have the best games and technology and firms who will make a
lot of money out of this low carbon transmission. Nearly all the
technology for wind power has been imported. Wind power is one example.
Across-the-board, looking at the value of the low carbon sector...
The Chinese lead on solar powers. The Europeans, Denmark, Germany,
they read on wind power. Where do we read? And a range of subgroups
within that. We are not a big heavy manufacturer in that way but in
terms of light materials and energy efficiency technology and a number
of applications, and in finance, more money was raised from London to
finance the global economy than any other centre. Your government has
just closed the Greenbank. The Green investment bank is a huge success
story. It has been privatised as a result. It is about ?6 billion now.
Of taxpayers' money. Not sure that is privatisation, never mind! It is
going to attract private investment and it will live at that investment.
So millions of pounds. Is it not time for Britain to recognise if it
is to cut carbon emissions, the economy has to change? There have
been still making losses of jobs in the North, probably more, is that an
inevitable changing of the balance of power in the world economy and
that is not what we do any more? The problem is energy prices. Energy
prices here they are three times of France and the most expensive in the
EU and the world. And the problem is it is what... Hold on. Energy prices
are the most expensive. The most expensive in the EU, 3 times of
France. The problem we have got is that companies move from Britain to
the cheap economies in China and so on and we get left behind. When
steel production is moved, CO2 production is not cut. It simply
moves to somewhere where they will be less monitored than in the UK.
Yes, so you have to be sensible and not disproportionately penalised
industry. We need to do more to ensure they maintain a competitive
advantage. Clean electricity, wind power and solar power is driving
down the cost of electricity in the UK because costs have come down so
much. That has not been reflected in wholesale prices, in the retail
prices to domestic or industrial users.
It is about 4.5 pence in France. It is half. Why is it is so much in
Britain? Because we disproportionately load energy taxes
and levies on to industry rather than consumers. You do that? It has
been the case that we have, we have put less on consumers and more on
industry. In Germany it is the other way round, consumers pay more than
we do here in the UK. But ultimately you are looking at it is wrong way.
We need to look at making it cheaper by using less, energy efficiency has
more potential in this country. We with drive down bills by helping
them use less in the home. I am led to believe that green levies are
putting round ?70 on household bills. So we are subsidising these
wind farms which make rich people richer and poor people poorer. It is
not sustainable or fair. What is your view Stewart Wood? There is
cause for optimism. I was at Copenhagen with Gordon Brown's team.
Was it as much of a shambles as people say? There wasn't this
process David Shuckman talks about. The US and China had different
pressures not do a deal, dropping countries were resentful. --
developing. Didn't the President leave early because there was a snow
storm coming in? I remember it was cold and snowy. In the process, the,
it has been better. I don't want to make a cheap point but I will make a
small one. We are famous for them. I think Gordon Brown and David Cameron
in a rare moment of team work, have been supportive of this agenda of
providing funds for developing countries to buy them into a global
deal. On the domestic front Amber Rudd didn't mention Paris in her
speech. The secretary for climate change didn't mention this. There
has been a huge cut in subsidies to the renewable energies... She was
very punchy on Paris. Why are you cutting subsidies? The cost of
technology is getting cheaper. It is a huge success. Why have you
withdrawn supports for zero carbon homes? Every single investment,
seems to be going against the renewables and clean energy agenda.
We have had unprecedented investment in clean energy under David Cameron.
The UK has become a world leader in offshore wind. We is the most
expensive form of energy. The cost is coming down. We keep on being
told. The cost of clean energy is coming down. Why o do all these
companies scream if you take the subsidies away they won't do it. I
cut the tariffs for solar in 2011. We had a massive expansion. The
question is getting the right balance. We are squeezed of time.
There will be lots of more of this. This afternoon, Jeremy Corbyn will
address the Scottish Labour He's expected to say
his party is now the socialist But after Labour's devastating
wipe-out north of the border in the general election,
can he hope to claw back support We'll discuss this
in a moment with Stewart Wood. The Labour Party has agonised over
why, when Ed Miliband went to vote in this year's general election it
didn't start a day that would end in Downing Street.
The electorate and press have said what they thought the problem was,
but the story internally is more complicated and surprising.
That the public had something of a problem with the man himself was no
secret to his circle but despite his slight awkwardness and that
troublesome breakfast, something he was advised not to do beforehand, he
could still joke about it, If she is looking for a new challenge she
should try wrestling a bacon sandwich, live on national
television. And many voters had settled on their view of Ed as a
person years before. Not everyone was negative. What seemed more of a
problem was they new they appeared anti-business. In fact it wasn't
something the internal polling was saying hurt them much. No
economically, it was handling the past to prove they could handle the
future that was devastating. Do you accept that when Labour was last in
power, it overspent? No, I don't. I know you may no agree with that, but
let me say very clearly. Even with all the borrowing. That simple
answer to a simple question was not the one he had rehearsed with his
team and was the one they knew the public responded least well too.
Given what he forgot to say about the deficit in his final conference
speech, that polled very well when actually revealed to focus groups,
this amounted to a terrible double own goal. But there was another
problem. The truth is that no one party looks likely to win an
outright majority at this election. We will need to build bridges
between the different parties if we are to deliver. Is Such an idea was
giving the confident the idea to warn. And the Labour team had been
divided on how to fight that. Jim Murphy always a little to Ed's
right. Five steps to the left... Argued all options should be
acknowledged. Douglas Alexander the strategist wanted a firm message
from the outset. Let me be plain. We are not going to do a deal. Days lay
later in Scotland and we know and hindsight is easy politics, the
infamous Ed stone became an electoral headstone.
Stewart Wood is still with me - he was Shadow Minister without
Portfolio, and a key adviser to Ed Miliband until May this year.
And we've been joined by the BBC political correspondent Iain Watson,
whose recent book, Five Million Conversations, analyses what went
When you look back now, on broad brush, what is have you concluded
was the reason you lost? I mean, I don't want to get too complicated.
One is in the short-term for those five years we didn't do enough to
reassure people their taxes were safe in our hands. I think there was
an economic credibility issue, we were aware of it going in, we
thought the economic argument pointed towards different stance,
perhaps to the way the political constraints we faced pointed and let
us be honest we didn't resolve that satisfactorily. Some people have
problems with Ed and the leadership. Let us be honest about that too. In
the last few week, the Scottish issue reared its head. It was always
pretty devastating prospect north of the border. Its appearance south of
the border... The English fear of Miliband, sturgeon, some
combination? Yes, trustability on spending, combined with fears, this
is the Conservative's term not mine but blackmailing a minority Labour
Government. The sense of Labour weakness on spending, with
ScottishPower over us, Scottish National Party power. That is my
sense. That is interesting, there was a generic reason and the
campaign reason that came in. What did you find? A whole range of
thing, the reason it is called Five Million Conversations Ed Miliband
declared he had won the ground war. He said we have had five million
conversations and this will go to the wire. A spoiler alert is it did
not go to wire, why did it not? Stewart has gone through the
political failure, there is organisational failures as well.
Labour spent a huge amount. 18 million on its field operation, but
largely they hadn't changed the way of thinking. We they were trying to
pull out the Labour vote in the traditional way but there was no
Plan B when they found out that the Labour vote was evaporating. One
minister said it was like talking through an glass partition. We
didn't know how to report back, when people said we don't know, they were
blind sided. Also they were under informed about how badly they were
doing, so for example, the Conservatives private polling was
suggesting they would get in excess of 300 seats. Labour were working on
a scenario they would never get more than 290 seats. There was a gap,
they didn't know when things were going wrong. When did it dawn on you
you were going to lose? My view going into the last few days, in a
way the campaign was in terms of popular opinion, it felt when you
were in the bus on the campaign you were in the same position as at the
beginning, very close, neck and neck, my personal view was it would
be a hung parliament with the Tories ahead. I thought that would be
difficult for us to be in power. That is my own personal view. But
the scale of the defeat was a surprise to me at one minute past
ten when the Exit Poll came out. It is true that Mr Miliband thought the
Exit Poll was a rogue? I think because it was so at odds with all
the other information we had been getting and all of you had been get,
it was true when we were in to be caster and the poll came out, our
initial thought was this doesn't sound right. It proved on the wrong.
It was pretty much right. Scotland, the Scottish Labour Party
meeting at the moment, almost a Total wipe-out of the party north of
the border. If you you don't get some kind of come back in Scotland,
the mountain you have to climb to win the next election is huge. Sure.
In England. You are a hundred seats behind. You need a 12% swing. It is
hard to see the makings of a come back in Scotland Well, it is very
difficult to see us coming back in the next five years because there is
a mountain to climb. I accept the scale of the challenge, you are
right about that. I don't quite accept the idea what you need do in
Scotland is different to the rest of the country. I wasn't implying that,
you need to recoup a lot of ground in Scotland, otherwise you have to
do so well in England that it is Mission Impossible. I agree. At the
moment we are facing a Scottish National Party that has this
extraordinary position of being an incumbent, that is difficult to
fight again for any party. Look, I think what Jeremy is trying to do in
Scotland today and more broadly is bring a mission back to the public's
peresubpoenaion of what Labour is about. That is what we have to do
whether we are losing voters to the Ukip or the SNP or others. It is
nowhere near the end of the story. You have to branch out from a
mission that will galvanise your voter, but that is the first
challenge. He seems to think in Scotland it's a race to be left,
talking about the socialist alternative there to the SNP. In
other words we, Labour, Mr Wore bin -- Corbyn is a going to say is going
to be more left-wing than the SNP. If you look at how the Scottish
Government behaves it is a centrist. Moderately centre-left or
centre-right Government. You are right. They have these symbols of
the left-wing credential, anti-Trident and the like. But they
have almost have a Blairite big tent. One of the interesting things
in the book, on the eve of Hallowe'en it is more shocking for
Labour supporters than Stewart is suggesting. One is if Jeremy Corbyn
comes off this austerity agenda the polling is showing that the SNP were
trusted, trusted to spend more than Labour, but also to spend it more
wisely than labour, so that isn't a solution. The second thing is a huge
change in attitudes. When I covered the first Scottish Parliament
elections Labour did very well with a slogan, divorce is an expensive
business. They tried a similar tactic during the election. They
said there will be an 8 billion hole in the budget. They tested that in
the focus groups, and it said, that that attack voters thought was
entirely credible, yet not particularly scary, one person in
the group summed up the whole thing by saying divorce costs you money.
So the attitude changes from it being an expensive business to a
price worth paying. That will be difficult for for an English based
leader to pull back before next year's Scottish elections.
What would you advice the, if I can call them the moderates in the
Labour Party, those in the centre and what we used to talk of as the
right. What should there strategy be over the next five years. One of the
characteristics the of Jeremy's leadership, he will be encouraging
people to be in the business of idea, new thinking. It is clear, you
have new groups sprouting up inside the Labour fold. At lot are worried
about the appointment of Andrew Fisher, Seamus Mill and momentum,
this new grass movement they fear is going to sweep them up. What has Mr
Corbyn done to reach out to the parts of the party who are
frightened of him? We have heard that is a sustainability cabinet.
That for a little while He has a job as head of comes. He said that on
perish today. Look, I think for the Jeremy Corbyn knows that the
Parliamentary Labour Party will take time to be reconciled to his
leadership. This is time to be doing some fundamental thinking. It is not
just the Labour Party that is left party in trouble. It is one of many
across the developed world of in serious trouble. And if ever there
was a time for fundamental thinking and genuine debate, this is it. And
Jeremy Corbyn I think is someone who has shown already he is committed to
it and he is going to let different parts of the Labour Party have
different answers. We will leave it there.
I have had about 4 million conversations! About tax credits!
It's time now to find out the answer to our quiz.
What major change is Jeremy Corbyn reported to have ordered
in the last week as a morale-booster for his staff?
c) The creation of a Socialist banners and flag room.
Or d) Turning his office into a chill-out zone?
So, Stewart Wood, what's the correct answer?
I would like to think it was alcohol in the office. I think it is the
chill out zone. It is indeed.
Turning his office into a chill-out zone, a kind of
But why did My Corbyn want to give up the Leader of the Opposition's
grand quarters and move into more humble surroundings?
And joining me now to discuss Mr Corbyn's grand office designs is
Is this a good bank? It is a very good thing for him. This morning, I
see he has got a snake on his destiny chart. So having a snake,
that is in charge of the environment so you can say he can smell a good
place. It's a snake at the then to have? -- is a snake a good thing to
have? For him, it is good. And it will help him to make a decision. He
said he felt like a prisoner in a cage. Yes. Snakes need a very nice
environment to develop and have the best. And because he has got a lot
of output in his chart, he is very much a people's man, working for
other people. He is very happy when he can do something for somebody
else. You know this office, did it seem like a gilded cage? I have been
there, it did not so much to me. It was more of a cage. It is stuck away
in the corner, you do not pass through it. You have to look for
people rather than getting people coming to you. It is a bit out of
the way. Does he have a room behind the Speaker's check? Yes, that is
very old panelled and not a good place to work. -- a panel. That is
the old room? That has got Ed Miliband. What do you make when you
see that room? Does it need feng shui? It is very difficult to say
because it is just a room. But I looked at the environment of the
area where he moved to. It is very nice, the area. I have disabled the
environment is according to how he is. Number 10, this is where he
would have been, Ed Miliband. We do not have that. One Labour source
says the old office has been turned into, a company university style
common room where we can relax and brainstorm. As a former university
lecturer, I would be very much opposed to that! I thought you would
like it. It has a lot of comfortable sofas. And I understand he has moved
to the office Ed Balls had and George Osborne previously used a lot
so I would like to know George Osborne's destiny chart! When you
feng shui something, it is not just the room, it is the environment
around it? That is right, I begin with the environment. And then we
move on to the internals. Now we are looking at it. This is not a very
good position. This is the office of the Prime Minister. It does not look
like that. A bottle of wine in the background! He is backing the door.
He should face the door. In order to be in control. That is the double
door to the Cabinet room and there is a door in front of him. They
always use the Cabinet room. That is right. We are going to tell the
Prime Minister he needs to feng shui it.
Coming up in a moment, it's our regular look at what's been
For now, it's time to say goodbye to my guest of the day, Stewart Wood.
So for the next half an hour, we're going to be focussing on Europe.
We'll be discussing the migrant crisis,
the end of mobile roaming charges across the EU, and the fall-out
First though, here's our guide to the latest
The European refugee crisis continues, with more than 85,000
migrants crossing into Slovenia in the last ten days.
Following an emergency mini-summit, the EU agreed to send 400 border
guards to help slow down the flow of refugees.
The right-wing Law and Justice party came out on top in Poland's general
election, celebrating the biggest victory by a single since Poland
Following the Volkswagen scandal, the EU has adopted tougher
emissions tests for cars, though Green politicians say
the rules don't go far enough and are considering a legal challenge.
Meanwhile, David Cameron attended a Northern Future forum in Iceland,
where he found time to warn Eurosceptics that copying Norway,
And some good news for your phone bill.
The European Parliament has voted to scrap mobile roaming charges,
meaning a phone call in the UK will cross cost the same across Europe.
So no excuse for not calling your mum when you're on holiday.
And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined by the
Labour MEP Mary Honeyball, and by UKIP's deputy leader Paul Nuttall.
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail, the vote
For years, we have complained about the astronomical cost of using your
phone in Europe. Now something has been done about it. This must be
welcomed? Very much so. It has taken a long time. Yes, I was on the
committee when this was first introduced. That was six or seven
years ago and it had been considered for some time before then. We
finally got it through. Roaming charges will be abolished altogether
in 2017 so people can go to the EU and they will not pay an additional
charge. The cost of using it there would be the same as here?
Absolutely, this has to be a good then. It is great for MEPs and
jetsetters and businessman who travel regularly in Europe. What
about holiday-makers? We have no guarantee companies will not push
the cost onto the domestic user and three have said they would do. The
roaming coalition that represents a group of mobile phone providers have
said they might do it. So a pensioner could be subsidising MEPs
and business people, wealthy people who travel regularly across Europe.
And the people who will not benefit if it goes onto domestic users will
be people who go to to the Algarve for a week because that will be
offset against their domestic bill. This is absolutely not true. In the
report from the European Parliament, there is a mechanism whereby if
roaming charges do increase, the national regulators can deal with
it. They can put it right. So this... I would have thought Ukip
would be pleased because this pushes it back to each individual member
state to make that decision. I am terribly surprised at Ukip's
attitude. Everybody has wanted this to happen. Everyone who travels
regularly across Europe. I am surprised at you being a Labour MEP
not standing for working class people in this country. In 2007, I
was there, they said there was no guaranteed they will not push this
on to the domestic user. The national regulator. That happening,
it has the power to do so. Will they, really? Europe has finally
done something the consumer will like! Is that which you are not
happy? This is hard nosed business, they will not lose money. They will
get it back I pushing it on to poor people. You are just angry is
because -- you are just angry because the European Union has done
something that voters will understand and benefit from. I am
angry because it could be pushed onto poor domestic people and I am
standing up for working class people. Ukip has got this totally
wrong. Time will tell! Punishing your own voters.
European Union leaders have again been discussing how to respond to
the huge numbers of migrants arriving at the EU's borders
This week, the EU Commission President,
Jean Claude Juncker, warned the EU is running out of money to handle
the crisis, and called on national governments to dig deeper.
And the crisis is putting relations between EU countries under strain.
In Germany, the Interior Minister has said
Austria should stop waving asylum seekers through to Germany and start
Jo Coburn reports from the German/Austrian border.
They have come from Syria, Afghanistan and Iraq,
ending up at this holding point on the Austrian border.
Local volunteers call out numbers on the different coloured
wristbands given to everyone before they pass through.
Now it's the turn of Salma and her family.
Their delight and relief is all too obvious.
They fled Syria a month ago and have finally made it to Germany.
They are just a few of nearly 80,000 people who have crossed into the
It has become a front line in this European migrant crisis,
with tensions mounting between German and Austrian
Migrants arriving at Salzburg train station are looked
after in this underground car park, but they are not registered here.
It's just a staging post for a few days at most.
Today, I've talked with one woman who wants
But if you talk with other refugees, they only have Germany as
That is because of the German Chancellor Angela Merkel's
bold policy to welcome all Syrian refugees.
The reality on the ground, for a small-town like Freilassing,
is that everyday life has been turned upside down.
Naturally, the borders are being controlled.
There are queues and people feel they are not
The Mayor has voiced his concerns directly to Angela Merkel
She told him she was working tirelessly to find a solution.
As the political pressure mounts, the response locally has been
This furniture warehouse has been turned into a temporary shelter run
by volunteers, state police and local government.
Salma and her family would have spent just a matter
of hours here before being moved on to a local train station, with
1,200 other people, and transported to other cities across Germany.
All the people here now have just arrived a few hours ago.
How does it feel to be safe here in Germany?
The German people have treated you well?
It is a huge logistical operation and the strain on local and national
Our capacity is limited, although we do have officials and volunteers
Basically, we are ready to help but in the last few weeks,
The flow of people shows no sign of slowing down.
As they move on to their final destination,
elsewhere in Germany, the impact of this mass migration will be felt
The scale of the migrant crisis, refugee crisis, asylum seeker
crisis, it seems so far to be beyond Europe's ability to resolve. It is
very, very difficult. They are refugees, of course. The majority of
those coming to Europe are fleeing from Syria, most of them. They are
refugees. They are not safe. Can we tell the difference now? What we
need to see, this is a humanitarian crisis. There is serious war going
on in Syria, people are fleeing because they are not safe. People do
not give up their homes and the livelihood and go across dangerous
seas for no reason. Whatever we call it, let's not get hung up on it, it
is a human Terry and crisis. The question is, Europe seems nowhere
near working out how to resolve it -- you manage Terry on. It has been
a huge strain on Europe and we have two admit that. Germany alone, in
the last five months, there have been 120,000 refugees just from
Syria, it is a massive things going on here. What should the solution
be? What should the European response be?
more of an agreement to share them round a bit, because it is just, it
is just not working very well, although Germany, your clip was
interesting, has welcomed a lot of these refugees and is doing by the
sounds of it a very good job. It is causing Angela Merkel some real
problems now. I will come back to that. Surely if Europe is to cope
with this it is a massive influx. It isn't going to go away. The burden,
the problem has to be shared. It does but it shouldn't be shared
across Europe, it should be shared across the Arab world as well. You
look at the rich Gulf state, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, they are doing
nothing to help them. They are not taking anybody in. They are not
going there. They don't want to go there. If you were a secular Syrian
out of Damascus, why would you want to go to Saudi Arabia Euro start
said that between April and June this year, 80% of the people who
were coming weren't coming from Syria. That was the ones coming out
of Libya. The coming out of Turkey, which is where most of them are
coming in to Greece, are overwhelmingly Syrian, so why should
they not be shared round? Actually, the German authorities are saying
that one this three who turn up, with a Syrian passport in Germany,
it turns out to be fake. Fake. They are on the Turkish black market.
When you say you have ayes flooding our continent with Islamists, don't
you think we would do something about this. I think that is undually
alarmist. It is bordering on being ridiculous.? Ridiculous? OK. This is
a humanitarian issue. Some of them very very few may be terrorists.
Obviously, we need to take action to deal with that, but most of them are
ordinary people, who are fleeing from a country where they are not
safe. Mostly men. Nobody braves what they have gone through to leave
somewhere unless they have a good reason, an overwhelming reason. The
majority are not coming from Syria, they are mostly young men. The
German employment agency say there will be 400,000 new welfare
claimants because 80% are unqualified and unskilled. Can I ask
you a broader question about this. This is developing into the European
Unions biggest ever crisis. It is much bigger than the eurozone,
because that only affected the eurozone n is affecting all of
Europe, in the end the eurozone crisis came down to Greece, a very
small part. We have had Donald tusk, the President of the European
council. Jean-Claude Juncker, the President of the Commission, and the
head of form -- foreign policy, saying this is an existential crisis
for Europe. Europe they have all said, may not survive this.
Obviously, there is massive concern, and the fact that all three of the
institutions, the heads are saying this, means we do need to deal with
it. You are not. The point is, Andrew, that often it is existential
crises seem to happen to the EU. The yuers, there have been ones before.
Europe does have an ability to get through this. I think this is a
massive crisis and it's a crisis not only for Europe but for the Middle
East as well. Well we will stick with the European crisis, we will
narrow into one country. Now, on Tuesday, the UKIP leader
Nigel Farage got to his feet in the European Parliament to denounce
the decision of Portugal's President to invite the leader of the
right-of-centre party to attempt to form a government, despite the fact
that the country's left-wing parties won a majority of seats in their
general election in early October. This is
the modern day implementation This is exactly what happened to
states living inside the USSR. What has been made clear here,
with Greece, and indeed with Portugal, is that a
country only has democratic rights Nigel Farage speaking in
the European Parliament on Tuesday. We asked our reporter, Ellie Price,
to swat up on the Portuguese Is Ellie, talk us through what
happened, the biggest party was the centre-right party, which had been
in Government but it didn't have enough to form an overall majority,
so what did the President, who is the head of state, what happened?
Well, let me prove do you I have done my homework and read up on the
constitution. I found the right bit. In order for the President to choose
a Prime Minister, he must consult the parties with seats in the
assembly and make his decision in light of the electoral results so
let us take it back a notch. On 4th October there was an election in
Portugal. The centrist right incumbent Prime Minister was the
largest party but lost his majority in the Parliament. The President
duly announced he would be picked as the Prime Minister, and would run a
minority Government. So far so simple, but here are the
complicating factor, first up, we have the reason that the President
gave for appointing the centrist right pairty. He appeared to be
suggesting he didn't like the policy sofs the other left-wing party, he
he thought it sounded like he was saying they were too anti-Europe and
too anti-austerity. He is reported to have said in 40 years of
democracy no Government in Portugal has depenned on the support of
anti-European forces. And this is the worse moment for a radical
change to the foundations of our democracy.
That brings us on neatly to complicating factor number two.
Previously, there hasn't been a viable left-wing coalition that
would be able to go up against the centrist right. Now it would seem
that the Portuguese socialists led by Antonio Costa has managed to form
an alliance with the left bloc and the Communists to come up with a
coalition of moderate left and far left, and what they are suggesting,
that, that combined a they would be far bigger than the incumbent Prime
Minister. What they have said they will do in the next few days is put
up a vote of no confidence, which would bring down that minority
Government, and then we would expect the Prime Minister to have to then
appoint the left-wing Prime Minister.
All right. Thank you very much for that. Interesting explanation. What
does this have to do with the Berezovsky never doctrine? Are there
tanks on the street? No it says, doesn't it you can have a veneer of
democracy as long as you agree socialism as it was back then. This
has been turned on its head. Brussels doesn't have its mitts on
this but I will say, it does follow a pattern. What is... Let me finish.
Berlusconi for example. I am talking about Portugal. It is widely example
that the President's speech was ill-judged. But constitutionally, he
is perfectly within his rights, to ask the largest party, which is the
centre-right party to form a government. It is also quite clear
that if it tries to form a government, there will be an
immediate vote of confidence, it will probably lose that vote of
confidence, and the President has indicated he will then ask the
centre-left party to try to form a government, and the centre-left
party will ask the Portuguese Communist and another left-wing
party to give them an overall majority. That will happen within
two week, where are the tanks in this? There doesn't have to be tanks
for the doctrine. You are from forking to Czechoslovakia. We are
talking about and overall trend. It happened in Italy and Greece. I am
trying to stick with Portugal for the moment. Also what you are going
to get is the Portuguese President having done this, will then resign,
his final act will be to put in power a centre-left Government that
is, two of whose parties are opposed to European austerity. I am trying
to work out. I know on twister there has been a massive storm about this,
probably encouraged by Mr Farage and yourself, and I accept the
President's speech was ill-judged. But in the end, the Portuguese are
going to get the kind of Government that the centre-left party wants.
51% of people voted for the left, shall we say. The centre-left and
far left. I hope in the end they get their Government, but equally I will
continue to say, there is a trend here of, of a lack of democracy in
Europe, whether it is making... I wanted to speak because they have
been making the running. We have a tank watch going in Lisbon. If they
appear... It happened before in Portugal. It isn't the only country
to have On Sunday, the people of Poland
voted in their general election and voted in the right-of-centre Law
and Justice party, European allies For the latest
in our Meet the Neighbours series, Adam Fleming has been to Gdansk,
on Poland's north coast. The Poles have just gone to
the polls, so I've come to the place where an electrician first
sparked democracy in this country. This is the famous shipyard
Gate Number Two where, 35 years ago, Lech Walesa came out and announced
that the Polish authorities were The first independent trade union
in the Soviet bloc. It eventually led to
the first free elections in 1989. A corner
of the shipyard is now a giant museum dedicated to solidarity,
the movement and the idea. You can see the van Lech Walesa
climbed on to make speeches, and check out plenty
of retro interior design. Or why not recreate
the talks to form But the centre's boss is worried
that solidarity is something that We are becoming Euro critical,
but we are not Great Britain. We don't have your wealth,
your strong political position, and we are located
in a very special place in Europe. He's worried
because the Eurosceptics Law and Justice have just become the first
party to form a majority government Beata Szydlo is the new
Prime Minister, though real power lies with Jaroslaw
Kaczynski, who ran the country with his twin brother when the party was
last in power a decade ago. Their candidates were anti the euro,
suspicious of immigrants, Law and Justice have quite big
election posters, don't they? To find out the secret
of their success, I met Filip, Teach me how to say the name
in Polish. I think I'll just stick with Law
and Justice. We joined the European Union,
we've had many possibilities. We've had many people who have
wanted to create the ideas, the innovation system, who have wanted
to make their companies there. And because
of the economical situation, the taxation policy of the Polish
government, they decided to leave. And Filip's party is planning
to be fairly tough on the EU. We have many,
many problems with our economical For example,
our ship companies were destroyed by Moreover, I think that Law and
Justice will want to make an ally with Great Britain to stop the lead
of Germany in the European Union. Although the view here is that David
Cameron's plan to restrict benefits for the 700,000 Poles working
in the UK is, er, a bit cheeky. Back at the Solidarity Centre,
you're supposed to write something But what message is Poland now
sending to the rest of Europe? We have had a Marxist Government
elected in Greece, we have got, we are going to have I suspect a
Portuguese Government of the left, we have a right-wing Government now
in Poland, we have a right-wing government, not a centre-right
Government in Denmark, we have the Swedish Democrats holding the
balance of power in Sweden, I would suggest the mainstream is crumbling
in Europe I am not sure it is crumbling but I think the mainstream
has challenges. The Polish result is interesting, I have talked to Polish
colleagues about the result, there seems to be a generational issue
here, in that the older people have had, they are still in the housing
they had under Communism and they are reTilly well-off, whereas the
young people aren't. I will have to stop you there.
Andrew Neil discusses the next round of climate change talks with former energy minister Greg Barker and deputy Ukip leader Paul Nuttall. Also on the programme, the latest EU news including a report from Jo Coburn on the migrant crisis from the German border and new rules on roaming charges.