16/11/2015 Daily Politics


16/11/2015

Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:40.

Police in France have carried out nearly 170 raids,

:00:41.:00:43.

targeting suspected Islamists, in the wake of the Paris attacks.

:00:44.:00:48.

The French authorities have identified two more

:00:49.:00:50.

of the attackers - as the hunt continues for another suspect.

:00:51.:00:55.

Over the weekend the death toll reached 129.

:00:56.:00:57.

This morning the French Prime Minister warned further

:00:58.:00:59.

France retaliates, bombing targets in Syria overnight.

:01:00.:01:08.

20 bombs were dropped on the city of Raqqa, the IS stronghold.

:01:09.:01:13.

People across France and throughout Europe have observed a minute's

:01:14.:01:16.

The tribute was led by the French President Francois Hollande at the

:01:17.:01:23.

Sorbonne University in recognition of the many young people who died.

:01:24.:01:29.

The Prime Minister reveals seven terror plots have been foiled

:01:30.:01:32.

The government announces more money for counter terrorism efforts.

:01:33.:01:43.

All that in the next hour and with us for most

:01:44.:01:47.

of it the Foreign Affairs analyst, writer and broadcaster,

:01:48.:01:50.

Tim Marshall and Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee,

:01:51.:01:55.

So to Paris where on Friday night 129 people died

:01:56.:02:01.

in one of the worst terrorist attrocities on European soil.

:02:02.:02:05.

It's been revealed that French police have carried out 168 raids

:02:06.:02:08.

across the country following the attacks.

:02:09.:02:12.

The interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, told reporters 104 people

:02:13.:02:15.

Weapons have been seized, including a Kalashnikov, automatic

:02:16.:02:22.

The French government says it is using the state of emergency to

:02:23.:02:28.

question people who are part of the radical Jihadist movement.

:02:29.:02:31.

Let's recap now on the events this weekend.

:02:32.:02:39.

At around 9:20pm Paris time on Friday the first explosions were

:02:40.:02:46.

heard near the Stade de France where President Francois Hollande was at a

:02:47.:02:50.

France Germany bid by match. At that stage it was reported that one

:02:51.:02:54.

person had been killed. It later emerged a suicide bomber had

:02:55.:02:59.

attempted to enter the 80,000 capacity stadium but was stopped by

:03:00.:03:04.

a security guard. Five minutes later than men with Kalashnikovs opened

:03:05.:03:13.

fire at the bar and restaurant. They killed 15 and injured ten. Another

:03:14.:03:21.

five lives were lost during gun attacks in the 11 district. At

:03:22.:03:28.

9:36pm and other 19 people were killed at a restaurant. That was

:03:29.:03:32.

followed by an explosion when a suicide bomb was detonated inside

:03:33.:03:36.

another restaurant. The biggest loss of life came in the gun men stormed

:03:37.:03:44.

Bataclan during a concert by American rock band Eagles Of Death

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Metal. By midnight president want had placed France under a state of

:03:51.:04:00.

emergency -- president will want. Salah Abdeslam, 26, is a key

:04:01.:04:04.

suspect. He was reportedly stopped by officers in the wake of the

:04:05.:04:09.

attacks and let go. His brother Mohammed Abdeslam has reportedly

:04:10.:04:15.

been arrested in Belgium. By the assailants have also been named.

:04:16.:04:19.

So-called Islamic State has claimed responsibility and it is believed

:04:20.:04:24.

the attacks originated in Syria. France has responded with the

:04:25.:04:28.

strikes which they see it destroyed a jihadi training camp and the

:04:29.:04:32.

munitions dump in the city of Raqqa. This is what the Prime Minister had

:04:33.:04:34.

to say this morning. To cut of the financing that

:04:35.:05:02.

terrorists rely on, to counter the terrorist ideology and a gander and

:05:03.:05:08.

to better protect ourselves from the threat of foreign fighters by

:05:09.:05:11.

sharing intelligence and stopping them from travelling.

:05:12.:05:12.

Well earlier I spoke to our Paris Correspondent, Anna Holligan.

:05:13.:05:16.

I began by asking about the conflicting reports we had heard

:05:17.:05:23.

after a Belgian radio station reported that Russell is born Salah

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Abdeslam had been arrested. This is the most wanted man

:05:26.:05:28.

in Europe at the moment. There is an operation underway

:05:29.:05:32.

in the Molenbeek area of Belgium. This is

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a very multicultural district and we are being told by Belgian

:05:38.:05:40.

police on their official Twitter account, they are asking

:05:41.:05:43.

journalists not to tweet or retweet close up photos of the operation

:05:44.:05:47.

in progress for security reasons. The suggestion is that this

:05:48.:05:53.

operation, there may be somebody there who they

:05:54.:05:58.

are trying to coax out or get out in some way and any photos or tweets

:05:59.:06:01.

could jeopardise their highly There have been conflicting reports

:06:02.:06:04.

because we were told not very long ago that Salah Abdeslam,

:06:05.:06:12.

the man you are talking about, It now looks like there is

:06:13.:06:15.

some doubt about that. It looks like he is still wanted,

:06:16.:06:23.

still out there. What we do know about this man is

:06:24.:06:26.

that he was stopped at the border and it was a huge intelligence

:06:27.:06:35.

missed opportunity, they went through his papers and he was

:06:36.:06:38.

allowed to travel on and this is the man they are now searching for,

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potentially You are just metres away

:06:42.:06:43.

from the Bataclan venue where the majority of the victims

:06:44.:06:51.

on Friday night were murdered. The Prime Minister in France,

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Manuel Valls, has said he expects Has he talked any more

:06:58.:06:59.

about that or is there anything else There have been some very worrying

:07:00.:07:06.

words from the Prime Minister today. Earlier, he talked about more than

:07:07.:07:14.

150 raids that were conducted He said that weapons,

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including a rocket launcher, rifles and bullet-proof vests,

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were picked up in Lyon. There were 15 raids there,

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but right across the country. I think we can move around

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and show you some of the flowers and candles that have been burning here

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ever since the attacks and just behind you can see the Bataclan

:07:38.:07:43.

music cafe where the majority Today it has been a time

:07:44.:07:46.

of reflection here, they held People now,

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it is coming to the end of three days of national mourning and they

:07:54.:08:00.

are looking for action and that is what we are expecting to hear more

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about today because the Prime Minister, Manuel Valls, warned

:08:04.:08:06.

that there may be more attacks. He said they were aware that attacks

:08:07.:08:09.

had been planned That is why there is a kind of

:08:10.:08:12.

anxious calm in Paris at the moment. People are trying to get on with

:08:13.:08:17.

their lives, the public transport is running again, people have returned

:08:18.:08:21.

to work, the schools are open. But as we saw last night,

:08:22.:08:25.

firecrackers were set off and everyone fled because they can't

:08:26.:08:28.

be sure that they are safe until With us now, the French commentator,

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Agnes Poirier, who is in Paris. A city in morning? -- mouring. Yes,

:08:32.:08:54.

throughout Paris and France you have gatherings, some ended with

:08:55.:09:01.

applause, some ended with the national anthem as was the case at

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the University where President Hollande and the Prime Minister

:09:07.:09:15.

wherewith students. In mouring but yesterday was interesting. There was

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an massive pilgrimage, a lot of people, each treats were thronged

:09:23.:09:28.

with prescience. -- this treats were thronged with prescience. All

:09:29.:09:36.

gatherings have been banned until Thursday for security reasons, when

:09:37.:09:39.

you have suicide bombers striking the country for the first time that

:09:40.:09:43.

is indeed the measure to be taken. But you could see the people, they

:09:44.:09:48.

wanted to be there, they wanted to do something. So many people just

:09:49.:09:55.

went from one scene of carnage to another, that was their pilgrimage

:09:56.:10:01.

for the Sunday and many people carrying flowers and you knew it was

:10:02.:10:07.

not for a friend or mother-in-law, it was for the victims. A picture of

:10:08.:10:17.

defiance, and of course anxiety and mouring. Soon they will be asking

:10:18.:10:23.

questions because a lot of the suicide bombers were known to the

:10:24.:10:28.

intelligence services and many so far are French nationals. So here we

:10:29.:10:32.

are, French compatriots killing their compatriots. Those questions

:10:33.:10:37.

surrounding the issue of where the suicide bombers came from and why

:10:38.:10:43.

Paris is yet again a target, does it feel like a city under siege? Yes

:10:44.:10:51.

and no. We have come to get used to it, since January. The French Armed

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Forces are everywhere to be seen in the streets of Paris and it has been

:10:58.:11:03.

the case for almost a year. They are guarding personalities, sensitive

:11:04.:11:07.

places, schools, newspaper offices. We have got used to very heightened

:11:08.:11:16.

level of alert and vigilance. We knew they were going to strike

:11:17.:11:23.

again, we did not expect the scope, the sheer ambition of what they did

:11:24.:11:27.

on Friday evening, that was something which shocked us, not the

:11:28.:11:31.

fact that they struck again. So I guess it is a new and mutating

:11:32.:11:40.

terror and an immense challenge, but not only poor France. Because Paris

:11:41.:11:45.

stands for everything they hate, subluxation and democracy. It could

:11:46.:11:50.

happen tomorrow indeed to other European countries and capital

:11:51.:11:57.

cities. Stay with us, Agnes Poirier, Tim, the scale of this was something

:11:58.:12:01.

quite unique for France, certainly mainland Europe. There have been

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other dreadful attacks in other parts of the world, but

:12:05.:12:08.

concentrating on the investigation which is ongoing, what are the

:12:09.:12:12.

French police and the Belgian police looking at, once they have arrested

:12:13.:12:16.

and caught the people who are still at large, what be doing? Questions

:12:17.:12:22.

will be asked if there was a massive deal you buy them. There was a

:12:23.:12:25.

failure but whether there are reasons and if they are excusable

:12:26.:12:29.

will come out over the coming weeks. It is clear they are tried to take

:12:30.:12:33.

this man alive because he is the last of the eight who is alive and

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they might be able to find information from him. It is thought

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that seven of the men wore suicide vests, they had to be made by

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somebody. The explosives had to be made. The person who made them and

:12:47.:12:50.

gave them almost certainly would not be one of the bombers, why would you

:12:51.:12:55.

burn an asset as they would say? So there is far more than just eight

:12:56.:13:00.

people involved, they want this man alive, they want as much information

:13:01.:13:07.

as possible. The 160 odd raids today, the majority will be rounding

:13:08.:13:11.

up the usual suspects. France has 10,000 young Muslims only notice

:13:12.:13:18.

which means they have come to the attention. Of those a much smaller

:13:19.:13:25.

minority-owned actually followed. This man potentially is the key, if

:13:26.:13:30.

he is taken Allied he might not want to say very much. What about this

:13:31.:13:36.

part of Belgium which seems to be seen as a hotbed for

:13:37.:13:40.

radicalisation, it must have been known for? They have had trouble

:13:41.:13:44.

there before, some of the incidents which have emanated from Brussels

:13:45.:13:50.

have come out of there. I used to live in Brussels as a correspondent

:13:51.:13:53.

and we knew about it then. I used to live in Paris in the 80s as a

:13:54.:13:57.

correspondent and you could see it germinating as long ago as that. But

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every single European capital has an area in which this sort of ideology

:14:03.:14:09.

is coming out. There will be also at a military responses to this and

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intelligence responses and the third plank of the response is the one

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which seems to have the least effort put into it. That is combating the

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ideology that allows these things to come out of these areas which are in

:14:23.:14:26.

every single European capital. Crispin Blunt, what are your

:14:27.:14:30.

thoughts about the attacks and the response? I think the attacks have

:14:31.:14:38.

to be counted into future policy before they happen, we should have

:14:39.:14:42.

expected something like this. We are relatively lucky in London because

:14:43.:14:46.

it is a more difficult target because of the Schengen Agreement,

:14:47.:14:49.

the lack of availability of weapons, the population is not in as much a

:14:50.:14:56.

state of disagreement as they are in France following decades of how the

:14:57.:15:02.

French have pursued assimilation. For those reasons we are in a better

:15:03.:15:06.

place but it does not make us immune at all. As I go around the Palace of

:15:07.:15:11.

Westminster talking to the policemen, it is a likelihood that

:15:12.:15:15.

if they had the capability they would try something against an

:15:16.:15:19.

iconic target like that, so you have to have all the protections in

:15:20.:15:24.

place. But your policy towards the ideology, and towards the territory

:15:25.:15:28.

that that ideology now controls which makes it easier to project

:15:29.:15:33.

attacks on the rest of us, should already have been in place and we

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need a coherent international plan to make sure that Isis is defeated

:15:37.:15:44.

in Syria and Iraq. That does not defeat the ideology but it makes it

:15:45.:15:48.

more difficult to project. That means you have two sort out Syria.

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Francois Hollande said it was a declaration of war. An act of war.

:15:56.:16:01.

Would you not say that you have been at war with IS with this

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radicalisation and radicalism for some time? Absolutely. We talked

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about war in January this year. Two years ago, France led the UN

:16:17.:16:23.

mandated operation in Mali with some success. France is one of the most

:16:24.:16:35.

active advocate against Daesh. Let's not forget that the different

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theatres of operations are vast, in Africa with the affiliate of Daesh

:16:39.:16:43.

or the Islamic State and in Syria and Iraq. But France cannot go alone

:16:44.:16:54.

and send troops, that is obvious. But there are tough questions for

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the coalition and for democracies because democracy is their target.

:16:59.:17:07.

So what are we going to do? Our bombings by plain enough? They

:17:08.:17:13.

hardly contain Irish. The Kurds are the only one actually fighting them

:17:14.:17:17.

on the ground and they do it on our behalf -- they hardly contain

:17:18.:17:26.

Daesh. Islamic State is convinced that democracies are not going to

:17:27.:17:30.

send troops and that is probably what feeds there in credible cheek

:17:31.:17:35.

and ambition to strike us at home. These Paris attacks, there will be

:17:36.:17:39.

more, as These Paris attacks, there will be

:17:40.:17:46.

and not only in France. Is there support in Paris from people for an

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infant the bombing we have seen by France on Raqqa, for example? There

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is a limit on what you can do. President Francois Hollande could

:17:57.:18:02.

not just stay idle but President Francois Hollande could

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hand, it is exactly what Isis wants. You talk to people on the

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streets and they say yes, of course, but what next? The key is

:18:14.:18:18.

intelligence much more than bombings and also cooperation with tween

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allies and democracies because they hate everything democracy stands for

:18:27.:18:33.

and Paris and France is one of the birthplace of them are Kgosi and is

:18:34.:18:39.

the main target. When -- birthplace of the Moxey. When do you think --

:18:40.:18:44.

democracy. When do you think Paris will get

:18:45.:18:55.

back to normal? Since January there is a new normal, you cannot have

:18:56.:18:58.

more Armed Forces deployed as you already have. Of course you have

:18:59.:19:05.

soft target and the 10th and 11th district were soft targets,

:19:06.:19:10.

extremely vibrant and diverse and useful but nobody could have

:19:11.:19:15.

foreseen that the article and a fitter, which is very well known,

:19:16.:19:22.

would have been a target -- the actor clan Theatre -- Bataclan. They

:19:23.:19:31.

are incredibly ambitious and they know what they are doing and they

:19:32.:19:35.

are planning carefully. We thought the next target might be the Eiffel

:19:36.:19:40.

Tower or something but it is extremely well protected. The French

:19:41.:19:42.

government cannot send troops everywhere. We will have to say

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goodbye, thank you very much. Well in a show of unity,

:19:47.:19:49.

a minute's silence was held across Europe at 11am today to

:19:50.:19:52.

remember those who died. The mark of silence held

:19:53.:19:54.

across Europe earlier today. Well, what of the international

:19:55.:20:34.

reponse to the attacks? As we've heard, France retaliated

:20:35.:20:39.

overnight with airstrikes, bombing Islamic State targets in the Syrian

:20:40.:20:43.

city of Raqqa and security has been Over the weekend, Ukip's defence

:20:44.:20:46.

spokesman, Mike Hookem, called on European leaders to "hang

:20:47.:20:51.

their heads in shame" and declared I began by asking what he meant

:20:52.:20:54.

by Schengen being dead. We know that these people,

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I mean I was in northern France, I reported then people traffickers

:21:05.:21:07.

using false passports, getting people into the country, filling

:21:08.:21:15.

them up in cars and vehicles. We now have a situation where Isis,

:21:16.:21:20.

these terrorists, have identified a weakness

:21:21.:21:22.

in our security and are taking full Of course we are not part

:21:23.:21:24.

of that borderless Europe, Yes, we do,

:21:25.:21:31.

but they should be strengthened. More security, more people on

:21:32.:21:34.

the borders, more passport checks. That is being done,

:21:35.:21:40.

the Home Secretary has announced He has announced that today but

:21:41.:21:42.

that has only just happened after Back to the Schengen

:21:43.:21:47.

agreement you say is dead. Do you mean now that borderless

:21:48.:21:52.

Europe is over, that there are going to be border controls set up on all

:21:53.:21:55.

continental European countries? Yes, we've seen it,

:21:56.:21:59.

France are now bringing back the border controls, other countries

:22:00.:22:02.

are bringing back border controls. These people are taking advantage

:22:03.:22:05.

of our weakness in security and they are going to carry on

:22:06.:22:11.

taking advantage of that security. You also slammed European leaders

:22:12.:22:14.

who actively encouraged the migrant crisis and said they

:22:15.:22:17.

should hang their heads in shame. What do you mean in terms

:22:18.:22:22.

of the migrant crisis in relation to Nigel Farage said in April that this

:22:23.:22:26.

was going to happen, that Isis was going to flood the continent with

:22:27.:22:32.

terrorists and freedom fighters In August,

:22:33.:22:34.

when I was over there in northern France, I was saying then that this

:22:35.:22:41.

was a weak point and people were coming in and some of these people,

:22:42.:22:45.

not all but some of these people But when you look at what happened

:22:46.:22:48.

in Paris, and the identification of the suicide bombers that have

:22:49.:22:56.

been made public, only one has been linked, and even yet that is still

:22:57.:23:00.

yet to be completely formally The others were

:23:01.:23:03.

home-grown terrorists. But they are being supplied

:23:04.:23:06.

and there is more people coming Do you think this attack would not

:23:07.:23:09.

have happened if there hadn't been a flow of refugees and migrants from

:23:10.:23:16.

Libya to Greece and through Europe? I'm saying it's being helped

:23:17.:23:23.

by the flow of migrants coming in and the lack of checks

:23:24.:23:26.

and security on the borders. So when you say that European

:23:27.:23:30.

leaders who actively encouraged the migrant crisis should hang their

:23:31.:23:32.

heads in shame, are you thinking In April, Nigel Farage stood up in

:23:33.:23:35.

the Parliament and said that this was a likelihood, a real chance of

:23:36.:23:46.

this happening, and he was laughed Is this the time to be making party

:23:47.:23:49.

political points, When I'm sat there that night

:23:50.:23:55.

looking at what was going on across in France, this is an

:23:56.:24:05.

absolute tragedy, it was shocking. But as politicians,

:24:06.:24:09.

we have to be looking to the future and we have to be looking

:24:10.:24:12.

at what weaknesses on the borders. We was highlighting these weaknesses

:24:13.:24:15.

and people should step up now Some of the statements by Ukip

:24:16.:24:18.

members, including the deputy chairman Suzanne Evans,

:24:19.:24:24.

have blamed Islam for the attacks. This is about a small minority

:24:25.:24:26.

of people who have She has tweeted,

:24:27.:24:32.

"Will politicians finally admit... I'm not going to defend

:24:33.:24:38.

Suzanne Evans on this programme. I'm stating now there is

:24:39.:24:42.

a small number of, you know, Islamic terrorists who have

:24:43.:24:46.

a warped sense of Islam. Was she wrong to say,

:24:47.:24:48.

"Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to

:24:49.:24:51.

do with Islam"? Suzanne will have to defend herself,

:24:52.:24:53.

I'm not here to defend her. Right, but you don't think she was

:24:54.:24:56.

right to say it was Islam As I said, there are

:24:57.:24:59.

a small number of these terrorists Nigel Farage will be giving

:25:00.:25:06.

a speech on foreign policy tonight. Can we expect any changes to Ukip

:25:07.:25:12.

policy? No,

:25:13.:25:16.

I think Nigel will be himself and he will be strong on the message he has

:25:17.:25:18.

been sending out for many months. But what will he be proposing other

:25:19.:25:22.

than what you have said today? I haven't seen Nigel's speech, I

:25:23.:25:25.

haven't spoken to him this weekend. What would you like to hear

:25:26.:25:28.

from him? What sort of tone do you

:25:29.:25:30.

think he should strike? He's got to have a tough tone

:25:31.:25:32.

on the foreign policy As we have been saying,

:25:33.:25:35.

this has to be a grand coalition of the countries, bringing Russia

:25:36.:25:39.

and bringing China, Nato, the Arab Do you think we should be

:25:40.:25:42.

bombing Isis in Syria? Bombing is all well and good

:25:43.:25:50.

if there is a strategy Wholesale bombing is

:25:51.:25:53.

not going to work. There has to be a strategy to

:25:54.:26:00.

the end, there has to be troops Who those troops are, I don't know,

:26:01.:26:03.

whether they be Nato troops, Russian troops, but there has to be

:26:04.:26:07.

troops on the ground. Would you like to see Nato come

:26:08.:26:10.

in at this stage? It is an act of war and I think Nato

:26:11.:26:12.

has to get involved. Let's talk about this declaration of

:26:13.:26:29.

war. David Cameron did not want to use that sentiment this morning. I

:26:30.:26:33.

mentioned Nato, does it have any implications for Nato? Potentially.

:26:34.:26:38.

The French president was the first to say it. It was followed up in the

:26:39.:26:46.

French press, a headline saying that this time it was war. He can invoke

:26:47.:26:53.

Article five of the Nato charter is the wishes, an attack on one is an

:26:54.:26:58.

attack on all which is only done once before and that was after 9/11.

:26:59.:27:03.

I don't think that is necessary at the moment. It might even come big

:27:04.:27:10.

things. You will have seen at the G8 entry -- T20, Putin and Obama

:27:11.:27:15.

talking. That was at least half an hour. Which is unusual for them. The

:27:16.:27:21.

Prime Minister has been talking with Putin today. The Chief of defence

:27:22.:27:26.

staff got in a bit of hot water saying that we were abandoning our

:27:27.:27:29.

allies and that we needed to get some sort of strategy with Putin.

:27:30.:27:36.

That is getting traction now. Nicolas Sarkozy has said it and he

:27:37.:27:40.

might be standing again. I'm not making an argument one way or the

:27:41.:27:44.

other but what seemed outlandish is coming into the centre. Do you

:27:45.:27:50.

support that dialogue but you look David Cameron has met with Vladimir

:27:51.:27:53.

Putin, they have talked about a unified response, is that the right

:27:54.:27:58.

response and pragmatic politics? We have eight necessity to defeat Isis

:27:59.:28:04.

and to do that you have to bring the Syrian Civil War to a conclusion

:28:05.:28:08.

because you had to work out who in Syria will take and hold the

:28:09.:28:13.

territory and administer it, that is hold by Isis and that means a

:28:14.:28:17.

conversation with Putin. He and the Iranians are supporting the Syrian

:28:18.:28:23.

regime. All of this has begun, it began in the wake of the downing of

:28:24.:28:27.

the Russian airliner. There was a follow-up meeting in Vienna and the

:28:28.:28:33.

conclusions from that are encouraging, about setting out

:28:34.:28:37.

conclusions from that are international strategy and a pathway

:28:38.:28:38.

to some resolution of the Syrian Civil War.

:28:39.:28:42.

to some resolution of the Syrian with identifying who the terrorist

:28:43.:28:47.

groups within Syria are so there is a process happening and we have to

:28:48.:28:51.

get behind that and make sure the Iranians and the Saudis are part of

:28:52.:28:56.

it. So do Turkey, as well as the Russians and the Americans.

:28:57.:28:59.

it. So do Turkey, as well as the sticking point was that the Russians

:29:00.:29:05.

would have two stop bombing what work colloquially known as

:29:06.:29:08.

opposition to Bashar al-Assad full stop they want to keep him there and

:29:09.:29:11.

Britain doesn't. stop they want to keep him there and

:29:12.:29:15.

agreement is the political stop they want to keep him there and

:29:16.:29:16.

elections that will involve all stop they want to keep him there and

:29:17.:29:24.

Syrians. The Russian line is that it is for the Syrians to choose their

:29:25.:29:28.

leader. Within an electoral and political process that is meant

:29:29.:29:29.

leader. Within an electoral and starting on January one, with all

:29:30.:29:37.

the international players, who all have dogs in this fight, they have

:29:38.:29:42.

agreed to put pressure on their clients to make them sit down at the

:29:43.:29:45.

table and begin that process of transition. Is rooting

:29:46.:29:50.

table and begin that process of militarily possible? Yes. With or

:29:51.:29:56.

without ground troops? That is more problematic. You have to have ground

:29:57.:30:04.

troops. Whose troops? It'll be a conventional land to take and hold

:30:05.:30:07.

the ground currently administered by Isis. They are running a adamant

:30:08.:30:12.

there and controlling territory. It would be infinitely better if those

:30:13.:30:18.

round trips come from both sides of the Comput -- those ground troops

:30:19.:30:24.

come from both sides of the conflict and also come from Turkey, Saudi

:30:25.:30:28.

Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, those are the countries who should be putting

:30:29.:30:31.

together troops along with the Iraqi army.

:30:32.:30:35.

If they can put together an operation in Yemen they can do it in

:30:36.:30:45.

Syria. Total air supremacy, target acquisition, special forces, all the

:30:46.:30:50.

things which will enable the conventional military operation to

:30:51.:30:53.

be relatively straight forward in that sense against an enemy the size

:30:54.:30:57.

and as well-equipped as Isis, if it can put together properly we can

:30:58.:31:02.

make sure the ground troops are able to complete the operation. That is

:31:03.:31:07.

the ideal situation. But if they are not prepared to do it we will have

:31:08.:31:11.

to look eventually at other options. It goes straight to the Isis

:31:12.:31:17.

ideological narrative, if it is Western Force is or Iranians forces

:31:18.:31:27.

who are the people on the ground. Is continued British noninvolvement in

:31:28.:31:30.

Syria in terms of bombing looking increasingly untenable Crispin? It's

:31:31.:31:45.

an important point, the House of Commons at some point will be

:31:46.:31:50.

asked, I hope, to approve a contribution to the land air

:31:51.:31:53.

campaign which will take out Isis. I hope it doesn't involve British

:31:54.:31:59.

ground troops but it should involve a more substantial British air

:32:00.:32:05.

campaign than is being suggested. I think the House of Commons, in Askin

:32:06.:32:14.

for right thing and this is what Britain should be doing with our

:32:15.:32:18.

international partners. Saying it is all very well, but we have to get a

:32:19.:32:22.

coherent international strategy together. We all agree Isis are our

:32:23.:32:30.

enemy and must be defeated. We have all taken serious casualties. Let's

:32:31.:32:34.

make the decisions necessary to put the strategy in place. What about

:32:35.:32:39.

the immediate response on the continent? Agnes Poirier seeing you

:32:40.:32:45.

cannot have more armed guards on the street, you cannot prevent those

:32:46.:32:49.

kind of attacks. What about Schengen? What about the EU? Has it

:32:50.:32:57.

been exposed in a way which is irreparable? It was already

:32:58.:33:01.

suffering hammer blows because of the refugee crisis and this is a

:33:02.:33:04.

greater blow from which it might not recover and of course the refugee

:33:05.:33:08.

story has not finished. The causality is not yet established but

:33:09.:33:13.

IS did announce they were going to send people with refugees. I don't

:33:14.:33:19.

think there is not a great move deal more which can be done than which is

:33:20.:33:26.

already being done. Poland said they would not get involved taking

:33:27.:33:28.

refugees after this because they have seen what can happen. The whole

:33:29.:33:33.

thing is coming down. Militarily there will be our response and IS

:33:34.:33:43.

will lose, the same way that Al-Qaeda dead and prevent replaced

:33:44.:33:50.

by IS. But they will be followed by another group unless you deal with

:33:51.:33:56.

it at the root. Accept that the ideology, there has to be a

:33:57.:33:59.

softening of some of the teachings that these people get. Crispin

:34:00.:34:04.

Blunt, thank you very much, Tim, you are staying with us.

:34:05.:34:07.

Well, the attacks in Paris will undoubtedly have implications

:34:08.:34:09.

The Prime Minister has called for the

:34:10.:34:12.

the British public to show "resolve" in the wake of the terror attacks.

:34:13.:34:15.

Mr Cameron promised extra funding for the UK's security services to

:34:16.:34:19.

help combat Islamic State terrorism, revealing that seven plots has been

:34:20.:34:22.

Let's talk now to our political correspondent Chris Mason.

:34:23.:34:30.

Can you elaborate on the new measures which are being brought in?

:34:31.:34:39.

The Prime Minister has given a press conference in the last hour in

:34:40.:34:42.

Turkey at the G20 summit before flying back to London. What did we

:34:43.:34:48.

learn? He says there have been agreements at the summit over

:34:49.:34:52.

intelligence sharing and cutting off the financing for terrorist groups.

:34:53.:34:56.

He says there will be a big increase in the amount of money spent in the

:34:57.:35:01.

UK on aviation security and for the first time cooperations amongst G20

:35:02.:35:06.

countries on that theme. They have also fast forwarded an announcement

:35:07.:35:11.

on boosts to the intelligence services, an extra 1900 operatives

:35:12.:35:18.

will be recruited. That will obviously take some time before they

:35:19.:35:21.

are up and running, trained, have been through the security checks

:35:22.:35:28.

which will take place for anyone hired by those organisations. The

:35:29.:35:31.

Prime Minister also making the case that in his view there is not any

:35:32.:35:36.

border between Iraq and Syria as far as Isil are concerned so that UK

:35:37.:35:43.

should not necessarily feel obliged to take account of that in its

:35:44.:35:47.

bombing raids on Isil which at the moment are restricted to Iraq. But

:35:48.:35:51.

the is a real sense from many MPs hear that they are yet to be

:35:52.:35:56.

persuaded, particularly Jeremy Corbyn this morning making it very

:35:57.:36:00.

clear that he sees France's additional attacks on Isil over the

:36:01.:36:02.

weekend as potentially counter-productive. Thank you Chris

:36:03.:36:06.

And joining us now, the Conservative MP, Oliver Dowden.

:36:07.:36:11.

The Labour MP, Chris Matheson and, from Salford, Haras Rafiq

:36:12.:36:13.

And Tim Marshall is still here. The seven foiled plots indicate that

:36:14.:36:24.

Islamic State do pose a threat in the UK, are we at risk to the same

:36:25.:36:30.

degree as brands? Yes but we are better prepared. -- as France. It is

:36:31.:36:41.

hard to get a Kalashnikov here. You mentioned that a rocket launcher has

:36:42.:36:47.

been found in one of the raids. Even in the 1990s French gangsters were

:36:48.:36:55.

using rocket propelled grenades on money carriers. And they don't just

:36:56.:37:01.

have a helmet, they have a bullet-proof vest. If the gangsters

:37:02.:37:04.

can get Kalashnikovs so can the Islamists. They have seven borders

:37:05.:37:10.

and have not been any checks on any of them. The UK is in a different

:37:11.:37:14.

position. But I am pretty sure that at some point there will be an

:37:15.:37:21.

attempt like this. But we do have, very, very good intelligence and

:37:22.:37:25.

that is why the Prime Minister has today announced what I think is a

:37:26.:37:31.

15% budget increase in intelligence services. This attack is almost

:37:32.:37:37.

impossible to protect against, that is the problem? Yes, and I think

:37:38.:37:42.

what it points to first of all is that Islamic State, if we had any

:37:43.:37:47.

doubt, present a clear threat to our national security in this country.

:37:48.:37:51.

We have seen these attacks on a Russian plane, on the beaches of

:37:52.:37:55.

Tunisia, the attack in Paris. There is clearly a threat here. In

:37:56.:38:00.

response what we need to look at is how we can help the security

:38:01.:38:04.

services do their job. From my time working in number ten I was aware of

:38:05.:38:08.

the number of plots which are actually foiled and we need to give

:38:09.:38:12.

the security services the power to do that. And we need to look at how

:38:13.:38:18.

weedy with Isis in Syria -- how we deal with. Do you agree that any

:38:19.:38:27.

objections on Civil Liberties grounds to increasing surveillance

:38:28.:38:30.

or current legislation by Theresa May, will fall on deaf ears? We

:38:31.:38:36.

cannot allow a terrorist attack however dreadful to dictate

:38:37.:38:40.

long-term policy in these areas. There have to be some changes, some

:38:41.:38:44.

moves to bring up to date the surveillance powers of the

:38:45.:38:48.

intelligence agencies. But we have to do that within the context of a

:38:49.:38:53.

country which remains committed to liberty including judicial

:38:54.:38:56.

involvement in the warrants. It appears some of the attackers were

:38:57.:39:01.

French European citizens, some of whom were thought to have returned

:39:02.:39:06.

from fighting in Syria or Iraq with Islamic State. The police say that

:39:07.:39:11.

out of the 700 British people who have gone to Syria have have

:39:12.:39:15.

returned to the country, we are at risk and we? Absolutely, people have

:39:16.:39:24.

been talking about extremism, ten years ago we were talking about

:39:25.:39:27.

Al-Qaeda inspired extremism, the reality is that IS, Isil and

:39:28.:39:34.

Al-Qaeda did not inspire extremism, extremism inspired them. We are

:39:35.:39:41.

living in a time of the global jihadists insurgency. That is not

:39:42.:39:48.

sustainable unless there is support. We are living in a time where there

:39:49.:39:51.

is some support for the political ideology which underpins the

:39:52.:39:57.

particular form of extremism and theology which empowers people to

:39:58.:40:01.

carry out these attacks. If theology which empowers people to

:40:02.:40:09.

the lens of Isil or defeating IS as we did with

:40:10.:40:12.

the lens of Isil or defeating IS as mentioned that we had a won the war

:40:13.:40:17.

against Al-Qaeda, I've ever speaking to a senior politician when Osama

:40:18.:40:20.

bin Ladin was killed and saying this is not over and he

:40:21.:40:24.

bin Ladin was killed and saying this we have taken out the leader.

:40:25.:40:27.

Clearly we have not. The risk is from the ideology which reads

:40:28.:40:33.

youngsters to be brainwashed and recruited to this worldview where

:40:34.:40:36.

their identity is no longer British or French or anything like that. It

:40:37.:40:42.

is Islamist jihadists. That is what we need to tackle. How would you

:40:43.:40:47.

tackle it? What would be the first thing you would do? If you see a

:40:48.:40:49.

continuation from Al-Qaeda to thing you would do? If you see a

:40:50.:40:55.

what would you do? One thing which has not been tried is to

:40:56.:40:59.

what would you do? One thing which ideology. We have only had half of a

:41:00.:41:02.

prevention strategy. We were looking to this

:41:03.:41:07.

prevention strategy. We were looking security and I am not saying we

:41:08.:41:09.

shouldn't. It government to protect its citizens.

:41:10.:41:13.

But we have government to protect its citizens.

:41:14.:41:18.

task force where we have to government to protect its citizens.

:41:19.:41:22.

civil society coalitions, alliances to deconstruct the ideology, the

:41:23.:41:32.

the alternatives. Have a strategy and in actual fact, the preventative

:41:33.:41:38.

strategy for and in actual fact, the preventative

:41:39.:41:45.

say they have been a limited by the government, they were not included

:41:46.:41:50.

in discussions. Do you agree it has been a failure? This is something

:41:51.:41:56.

the parameter takes very seriously. He is committed to tackling

:41:57.:42:00.

extremism at source -- something the Prime Minister takes very seriously.

:42:01.:42:01.

This cannot be done easily, Prime Minister takes very seriously.

:42:02.:42:06.

are challenges as to how you best achieve this. You

:42:07.:42:09.

are challenges as to how you best years and all we

:42:10.:42:12.

are challenges as to how you best stream of people from Britain and

:42:13.:42:14.

other European countries going to fight in Syria. There are two

:42:15.:42:17.

issues, first late tackle a thing fight in Syria. There are two

:42:18.:42:24.

firstly tackling it in this country. There is a second issue which

:42:25.:42:27.

relates to people coming back from Syria which is more a case of how do

:42:28.:42:31.

we monitor the people who have gone out and been radicalised and are

:42:32.:42:36.

coming back. That is a combination of education and the security

:42:37.:42:40.

services keeping tabs. The failure has been people going out in the

:42:41.:42:45.

first place. Why have they been so attracted to the ideology of the

:42:46.:42:47.

prevent strategy has been successful? You cannot expect one

:42:48.:42:54.

strategy alone to be the cure all bullet. There are tremendous pulls

:42:55.:42:59.

to countries like Syria where there is a missed placed romanticism,

:43:00.:43:03.

almost as if it was taking place in the Spanish Civil War. You cannot

:43:04.:43:12.

tackle it all at once. Are you shaking your head because you don't

:43:13.:43:18.

think prevent has worked in anyway shape or form, or enough

:43:19.:43:24.

understanding of the problem? If you look at a lot of the success in

:43:25.:43:29.

terms of empowering schools to do safeguarding, it has been done this

:43:30.:43:34.

year. Five years of the Coalition Government, there was not any, one

:43:35.:43:38.

particular government department tasked with going out to communities

:43:39.:43:43.

and in power voices to take on the challenge. It didn't happen. Now it

:43:44.:43:48.

is happening so it is correct to say the prevent strategy had not worked

:43:49.:43:52.

because we only had half a prevent strategy. Now the gap is being

:43:53.:43:57.

filled but it is only recently where they buy minister has made some

:43:58.:44:01.

inroads -- the Prime Minister has made some inroads. We have not

:44:02.:44:08.

tackled the ideology that eight minority within a minority have

:44:09.:44:13.

decided to go out to Iraq and Syria. The Prime Minister is doing it now

:44:14.:44:17.

but we should have done it five years ago. How much responsibility

:44:18.:44:22.

rests with the Muslim community in Britain? I don't think we are

:44:23.:44:26.

talking about Muslim issues, Islamic State are a fascist grip and if we

:44:27.:44:31.

understand it is a fascist ideology we can separate it entirely from

:44:32.:44:37.

most mainstream Muslim thought. There will be some individuals out

:44:38.:44:40.

there, hate preachers and someone who will need to be dealt with. But

:44:41.:44:47.

the huge majority of Muslims, certainly in Chester where I know

:44:48.:44:50.

the community, and right across, are horrified by these attacks. There is

:44:51.:44:56.

a huge responsibility on news on committees in particular to identify

:44:57.:45:00.

those people who are perhaps at risk, perhaps acting a little

:45:01.:45:05.

strangely. But that could be the same of any of us looking at people

:45:06.:45:10.

being radicalised. Do you agree, does there need to be more

:45:11.:45:13.

responsibility from within the community to help identify people

:45:14.:45:16.

who might be vulnerable to this sort of ideology?

:45:17.:45:21.

If you look at the statistics of people going out to join Isil and

:45:22.:45:29.

convicted of these attacks, it is a fallacy to say that they are not

:45:30.:45:33.

educated, middle-class or upper middle class, 40s and percent of the

:45:34.:45:42.

people convicted in the UK have had higher education. -- 47%. We have to

:45:43.:45:48.

look at this, not just to the point where they become violent, we have

:45:49.:45:54.

to look at the whole concept of totalitarianism, the idea of this

:45:55.:46:00.

Islamist caliphate, enforcing their version of Shahril or, that is what

:46:01.:46:09.

we need to tackle. -- sharia law. There is a whole roll for Muslims

:46:10.:46:14.

and non-Muslims. The new community engagement Forum is not a Muslim

:46:15.:46:20.

engagement Forum, it is a community engagement Forum with Muslims and

:46:21.:46:23.

non-Muslims coming together to form these alliances and tackle this. It

:46:24.:46:28.

is a problem for the whole immunity but Muslims, people like me need to

:46:29.:46:33.

play our part -- the whole community. Tweets are coming in

:46:34.:46:39.

saying that France will call for effective suspension of Schengen on

:46:40.:46:45.

Friday. I'll use a prized? Not in the least -- are you surprised.

:46:46.:46:52.

What is happening is Fortress nation state and not Fortress Europe. They

:46:53.:47:00.

will not be a big ring around Europe, there is odd why are going

:47:01.:47:04.

up and there are deep divisions in our heads -- there is barbed wire. I

:47:05.:47:15.

think IS are fascists, they are Islamic fascists and I don't think

:47:16.:47:19.

you can separate religion from it which is unpopular but a personal

:47:20.:47:24.

belief. But they are going to lose but in the manner of them losing we

:47:25.:47:27.

are going to divide and that is pretty sad. Thank you for joining

:47:28.:47:30.

us. Now let's take a look

:47:31.:47:32.

at how the political map is shaping This afternoon in the Commons,

:47:33.:47:34.

MPs will debate plans to boost counter-terrorism

:47:35.:47:39.

and aviation security. Tonight the Prime Minister will give

:47:40.:47:44.

his annual speech on foreign policy at the Lord Mayor's banquet

:47:45.:47:47.

in the City of London. And Ukip leader Nigel Farage will

:47:48.:47:51.

also give a speech this evening, addressing the events in Paris, as

:47:52.:47:56.

part of his "Say No to the EU" tour. On Wednesday David Cameron faces

:47:57.:48:01.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box

:48:02.:48:04.

for our weekly dose of PMQs. And on Thursday the House of Commons

:48:05.:48:07.

will discuss issues surrounding A debate secured by the Conservative

:48:08.:48:10.

back-bencher Phillip Davies. And with us now,

:48:11.:48:20.

Steve Richards from the Independent and Tim Shipman, Political Editor

:48:21.:48:22.

of the Sunday Times. Steve Richards, David Cameron is

:48:23.:48:34.

giving a speech on foreign policy, do you expect him to say that event

:48:35.:48:38.

in Paris underline the case for British air strikes in Syria? He

:48:39.:48:43.

thought before Paris, wrongly in my view, that there was a case for air

:48:44.:48:50.

strikes. It is a statement of the obvious, if you can't get a majority

:48:51.:48:53.

in the House of Commons, they will not put it to the house. I can't see

:48:54.:48:59.

why these air strikes, sorry, the event in Paris on Friday, change the

:49:00.:49:06.

essential argument. Some MPs have told me they think there is a

:49:07.:49:10.

majority in the House of Commons for air strikes and probably was before

:49:11.:49:13.

Paris because you have a section of the Labour Party who will back them.

:49:14.:49:20.

He won't do it until he is sure he will win the vote and that remains

:49:21.:49:25.

unchanged. Is there a continued campaign to get the numbers? There

:49:26.:49:29.

were conflicting reports over the weekend, some Labour MPs said they

:49:30.:49:33.

had not been talk to but others said they had and there was a coalition

:49:34.:49:39.

to get support. If they make the effort, there is probably the

:49:40.:49:43.

numbers. Michael Fallon has been getting people into the MoD,

:49:44.:49:48.

including Labour MPs. My understanding is that will

:49:49.:49:53.

continue. What needs to happen, and people around the Prime Minister

:49:54.:49:57.

know this, is that he has to get stuck in himself and make this

:49:58.:50:01.

argument. Steve said the argument hasn't changed, it probably hasn't,

:50:02.:50:06.

and there is still big argument about whether you bomb one side of

:50:07.:50:10.

an artificial line or the other and if it makes a difference. There is a

:50:11.:50:16.

sense that senior people like Crispin Blunt are beginning to edge

:50:17.:50:21.

back a bit from the precipice of a hundred patient with the PM and if

:50:22.:50:24.

he makes the effort and gets people in himself, there is a majority -- a

:50:25.:50:33.

confrontation. The Prime Minister is committed to having action in Syria

:50:34.:50:39.

and we had the vote three years ago. I don't think this completely

:50:40.:50:44.

changes the argument but it is further evidence that Isis present a

:50:45.:50:47.

risk to national security and we should be taking efforts to deal

:50:48.:50:51.

with it. The Prime Minister has said there is no point in having the vote

:50:52.:50:55.

if you know the result will be the same. When the catered been made,

:50:56.:51:03.

then we can have a vote. -- the case has been made. Should he be making

:51:04.:51:07.

this central to his efforts if he believes in it? You heard him this

:51:08.:51:14.

morning, he is repeating this argument that we need to deal with

:51:15.:51:19.

Isis. That sounds like he will push but but but the Foreign Affairs

:51:20.:51:26.

Committee report. That was not written without them being fully

:51:27.:51:30.

aware of the risks. Paris confirms that. They were there before Paris

:51:31.:51:36.

and they are still there. Crispin said on your programme that there

:51:37.:51:42.

has to be some kind of coherent military strategy involving Buttin

:51:43.:51:45.

and others before they endorse further military action -- Putin. It

:51:46.:51:55.

is interesting that the vote three years ago was about arming Assad but

:51:56.:52:01.

things have moved on. It is now Islamic State. There is a Civil War

:52:02.:52:06.

with five or six different sides. I'm not clear whether arming Assad

:52:07.:52:11.

or Islamic state or both would have to fight that Civil War or clarify

:52:12.:52:16.

the outcome. Would you vote against the dish military... -- Berchiche

:52:17.:52:21.

military. At a flop At the moment, I can't see how UK

:52:22.:52:39.

bombing any side debate several -- any side of a civil war in Syria. We

:52:40.:52:45.

can hear what Jeremy Corbyn had to say. He is echoing those sentiments.

:52:46.:52:50.

The idea has to be, surely, a political settlement in Syria.

:52:51.:52:56.

There are some signs that the talks over the weekend made some progress.

:52:57.:53:02.

Iraq, Russia, USA, European Union around the table together with all

:53:03.:53:04.

the regional governments, particularly Turkey, is key.

:53:05.:53:08.

Who is providing safe havens for Isis?

:53:09.:53:15.

You have to ask questions about the arms that everybody has

:53:16.:53:18.

sold in the region, the role of Saudi Arabia in this.

:53:19.:53:21.

I think there are some very big questions and we have to be careful.

:53:22.:53:24.

One war doesn't necessarily bring about peace,

:53:25.:53:26.

it often can bring more conflict and more mayhem and more loss.

:53:27.:53:37.

That was Jeremy Corbyn. If it came to the Commons, if David Cameron

:53:38.:53:48.

felt there were enough Labour MPs on board to back British military air

:53:49.:53:53.

strikes, should Jeremy Corbyn give his MPs a free vote? I suspect a lot

:53:54.:53:59.

of MPs would vote with their conscience anyway because it is a

:54:00.:54:04.

tough decision. There will have to be negotiations and they can't

:54:05.:54:10.

include any regard for Islamic State, there is no negotiating with

:54:11.:54:16.

them. There has to be some kind of international settlement. The Prime

:54:17.:54:19.

Minister has been talking to President Putin which I suspect will

:54:20.:54:24.

help to clarify the situation but until we have that clarity about

:54:25.:54:28.

where we are going and how to get there, I can't see I would be voting

:54:29.:54:33.

in favour of it. That is work in progress for the Prime Minister.

:54:34.:54:36.

Jeremy Corbyn has not changed his mind. He is making perfectly

:54:37.:54:41.

legitimate points about a political settlement, this is something they

:54:42.:54:45.

are trying to push forward, there is a view in the Labour Party that he

:54:46.:54:52.

would not countenance military action under any circumstances. He

:54:53.:54:55.

has to be careful because if he goes too far to that extreme, he will

:54:56.:55:00.

push some of his front ventures who think there is a case for

:55:01.:55:03.

intervention, more likely to go against him if he appears to be

:55:04.:55:08.

digging himself into that pacifist hole. Let's talk about the measures

:55:09.:55:14.

announced today, the extra spending towards intelligence officers.

:55:15.:55:19.

Despite the fact that we don't have any money, we have found money for

:55:20.:55:25.

this, rightly so? The politics with this is the politics of the long

:55:26.:55:33.

haul, the Arno instant solutions. -- there are no instant solutions. I

:55:34.:55:40.

think the proposals from Theresa May to give intelligence agencies access

:55:41.:55:45.

to Internet records are legitimate. I think George Osborne's spending

:55:46.:55:52.

review comes into this because the policing cuts as originally proposed

:55:53.:55:56.

are not sustainable. Community policing has stopped some terrorists

:55:57.:56:03.

from acting and yet their budget is massively under threat. All of these

:56:04.:56:07.

things come into play. They make a difference. My doubt is whether an

:56:08.:56:12.

immediate vote on military action in Syria is the right response. These

:56:13.:56:16.

other things are and that includes the surveillance thing. What is the

:56:17.:56:22.

point of spending extra money on spies and intelligence services if

:56:23.:56:26.

you are going to cut the police? Let's wait to see what is in the

:56:27.:56:30.

spending review. We know their budget will be cut. On the

:56:31.:56:36.

intelligent agencies, the government has rightly prioritised this. But it

:56:37.:56:41.

has to be in parallel, you had to beef up resources but also make sure

:56:42.:56:44.

they have the tools and that is why it is important we press ahead with

:56:45.:56:48.

the investigatory powers at the same time. Would you support more funding

:56:49.:56:55.

for the police? I would support more funding for every area of public

:56:56.:56:58.

services for the we still have an enormous budget deficit. We have to

:56:59.:57:05.

take difficult decisions but the prioritisation of resources for the

:57:06.:57:09.

intelligent services shows that the Prime Minister will not compromise

:57:10.:57:14.

national security. It is not just the police, we have seen cuts to the

:57:15.:57:18.

immigration services so we are still not sure who is coming in and out of

:57:19.:57:22.

the country. It is a complicated picture. Looking to cut the police

:57:23.:57:29.

in the way it seems proposed frankly would be a dangerous step. And it

:57:30.:57:32.

would not go down well with the public. This is very dangerous

:57:33.:57:41.

politics. We are pulling 600 watts, -- following 600 plots. If the Prime

:57:42.:57:50.

Minister wants to use his political capital on the back of Paris he

:57:51.:57:54.

would be better advised to use it pushing through these surveillance

:57:55.:57:57.

laws and beefing up the nub of people who can track down the

:57:58.:58:03.

perpetrators of these acts. The other argument we might start to see

:58:04.:58:08.

is about armed police. Every single French policeman was armed and they

:58:09.:58:14.

could respond relatively quickly. Could we really respond that quickly

:58:15.:58:18.

on the streets of London? Should we have more armed police on the

:58:19.:58:26.

streets? Again, in the context of budget cuts, it is a tough question

:58:27.:58:29.

to ask. The training has to be right, they have do have regular

:58:30.:58:34.

access to continuing training, it is a major step to make it if it

:58:35.:58:39.

reassures the public, it is something that can be looked at.

:58:40.:58:44.

Improving intelligence might be a better way forward.

:58:45.:58:46.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:47.:58:50.

I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big

:58:51.:58:52.

He's in an exotic land. In the far reaches of northern Europe.

:58:53.:59:05.

A place of unbelievable history, myth and legend.

:59:06.:59:09.

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