Browse content similar to 16/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Police in France have carried out nearly 170 raids, | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
targeting suspected Islamists, in the wake of the Paris attacks. | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
The French authorities have identified two more | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
of the attackers - as the hunt continues for another suspect. | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
Over the weekend the death toll reached 129. | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
This morning the French Prime Minister warned further | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
France retaliates, bombing targets in Syria overnight. | :01:00. | :01:08. | |
20 bombs were dropped on the city of Raqqa, the IS stronghold. | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
People across France and throughout Europe have observed a minute's | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
The tribute was led by the French President Francois Hollande at the | :01:17. | :01:23. | |
Sorbonne University in recognition of the many young people who died. | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
The Prime Minister reveals seven terror plots have been foiled | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
The government announces more money for counter terrorism efforts. | :01:33. | :01:43. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for most | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
of it the Foreign Affairs analyst, writer and broadcaster, | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
Tim Marshall and Chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
So to Paris where on Friday night 129 people died | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
in one of the worst terrorist attrocities on European soil. | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
It's been revealed that French police have carried out 168 raids | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
across the country following the attacks. | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
The interior minister, Bernard Cazeneuve, told reporters 104 people | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Weapons have been seized, including a Kalashnikov, automatic | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
The French government says it is using the state of emergency to | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
question people who are part of the radical Jihadist movement. | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
Let's recap now on the events this weekend. | :02:32. | :02:39. | |
At around 9:20pm Paris time on Friday the first explosions were | :02:40. | :02:46. | |
heard near the Stade de France where President Francois Hollande was at a | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
France Germany bid by match. At that stage it was reported that one | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
person had been killed. It later emerged a suicide bomber had | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
attempted to enter the 80,000 capacity stadium but was stopped by | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
a security guard. Five minutes later than men with Kalashnikovs opened | :03:05. | :03:13. | |
fire at the bar and restaurant. They killed 15 and injured ten. Another | :03:14. | :03:21. | |
five lives were lost during gun attacks in the 11 district. At | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
9:36pm and other 19 people were killed at a restaurant. That was | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
followed by an explosion when a suicide bomb was detonated inside | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
another restaurant. The biggest loss of life came in the gun men stormed | :03:37. | :03:44. | |
Bataclan during a concert by American rock band Eagles Of Death | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
Metal. By midnight president want had placed France under a state of | :03:51. | :04:00. | |
emergency -- president will want. Salah Abdeslam, 26, is a key | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
suspect. He was reportedly stopped by officers in the wake of the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
attacks and let go. His brother Mohammed Abdeslam has reportedly | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
been arrested in Belgium. By the assailants have also been named. | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
So-called Islamic State has claimed responsibility and it is believed | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the attacks originated in Syria. France has responded with the | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
strikes which they see it destroyed a jihadi training camp and the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
munitions dump in the city of Raqqa. This is what the Prime Minister had | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
to say this morning. To cut of the financing that | :04:35. | :05:02. | |
terrorists rely on, to counter the terrorist ideology and a gander and | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
to better protect ourselves from the threat of foreign fighters by | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
sharing intelligence and stopping them from travelling. | :05:12. | :05:12. | |
Well earlier I spoke to our Paris Correspondent, Anna Holligan. | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
I began by asking about the conflicting reports we had heard | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
after a Belgian radio station reported that Russell is born Salah | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
Abdeslam had been arrested. This is the most wanted man | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
in Europe at the moment. There is an operation underway | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
in the Molenbeek area of Belgium. This is | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
a very multicultural district and we are being told by Belgian | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
police on their official Twitter account, they are asking | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
journalists not to tweet or retweet close up photos of the operation | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
in progress for security reasons. The suggestion is that this | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
operation, there may be somebody there who they | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
are trying to coax out or get out in some way and any photos or tweets | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
could jeopardise their highly There have been conflicting reports | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
because we were told not very long ago that Salah Abdeslam, | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
the man you are talking about, It now looks like there is | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
some doubt about that. It looks like he is still wanted, | :06:16. | :06:23. | |
still out there. What we do know about this man is | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
that he was stopped at the border and it was a huge intelligence | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
missed opportunity, they went through his papers and he was | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
allowed to travel on and this is the man they are now searching for, | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
potentially You are just metres away | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
from the Bataclan venue where the majority of the victims | :06:44. | :06:51. | |
on Friday night were murdered. The Prime Minister in France, | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
Manuel Valls, has said he expects Has he talked any more | :06:58. | :06:59. | |
about that or is there anything else There have been some very worrying | :07:00. | :07:06. | |
words from the Prime Minister today. Earlier, he talked about more than | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
150 raids that were conducted He said that weapons, | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
including a rocket launcher, rifles and bullet-proof vests, | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
were picked up in Lyon. There were 15 raids there, | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
but right across the country. I think we can move around | :07:29. | :07:33. | |
and show you some of the flowers and candles that have been burning here | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
ever since the attacks and just behind you can see the Bataclan | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
music cafe where the majority Today it has been a time | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
of reflection here, they held People now, | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
it is coming to the end of three days of national mourning and they | :07:54. | :08:00. | |
are looking for action and that is what we are expecting to hear more | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
about today because the Prime Minister, Manuel Valls, warned | :08:04. | :08:06. | |
that there may be more attacks. He said they were aware that attacks | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
had been planned That is why there is a kind of | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
anxious calm in Paris at the moment. People are trying to get on with | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
their lives, the public transport is running again, people have returned | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
to work, the schools are open. But as we saw last night, | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
firecrackers were set off and everyone fled because they can't | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
be sure that they are safe until With us now, the French commentator, | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
Agnes Poirier, who is in Paris. A city in morning? -- mouring. Yes, | :08:32. | :08:54. | |
throughout Paris and France you have gatherings, some ended with | :08:55. | :09:01. | |
applause, some ended with the national anthem as was the case at | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
the University where President Hollande and the Prime Minister | :09:07. | :09:15. | |
wherewith students. In mouring but yesterday was interesting. There was | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
an massive pilgrimage, a lot of people, each treats were thronged | :09:23. | :09:28. | |
with prescience. -- this treats were thronged with prescience. All | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
gatherings have been banned until Thursday for security reasons, when | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
you have suicide bombers striking the country for the first time that | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
is indeed the measure to be taken. But you could see the people, they | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
wanted to be there, they wanted to do something. So many people just | :09:49. | :09:55. | |
went from one scene of carnage to another, that was their pilgrimage | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
for the Sunday and many people carrying flowers and you knew it was | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
not for a friend or mother-in-law, it was for the victims. A picture of | :10:08. | :10:17. | |
defiance, and of course anxiety and mouring. Soon they will be asking | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
questions because a lot of the suicide bombers were known to the | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
intelligence services and many so far are French nationals. So here we | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
are, French compatriots killing their compatriots. Those questions | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
surrounding the issue of where the suicide bombers came from and why | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
Paris is yet again a target, does it feel like a city under siege? Yes | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
and no. We have come to get used to it, since January. The French Armed | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
Forces are everywhere to be seen in the streets of Paris and it has been | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
the case for almost a year. They are guarding personalities, sensitive | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
places, schools, newspaper offices. We have got used to very heightened | :11:08. | :11:16. | |
level of alert and vigilance. We knew they were going to strike | :11:17. | :11:23. | |
again, we did not expect the scope, the sheer ambition of what they did | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
on Friday evening, that was something which shocked us, not the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
fact that they struck again. So I guess it is a new and mutating | :11:32. | :11:40. | |
terror and an immense challenge, but not only poor France. Because Paris | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
stands for everything they hate, subluxation and democracy. It could | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
happen tomorrow indeed to other European countries and capital | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
cities. Stay with us, Agnes Poirier, Tim, the scale of this was something | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
quite unique for France, certainly mainland Europe. There have been | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
other dreadful attacks in other parts of the world, but | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
concentrating on the investigation which is ongoing, what are the | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
French police and the Belgian police looking at, once they have arrested | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
and caught the people who are still at large, what be doing? Questions | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
will be asked if there was a massive deal you buy them. There was a | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
failure but whether there are reasons and if they are excusable | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
will come out over the coming weeks. It is clear they are tried to take | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
this man alive because he is the last of the eight who is alive and | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
they might be able to find information from him. It is thought | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
that seven of the men wore suicide vests, they had to be made by | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
somebody. The explosives had to be made. The person who made them and | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
gave them almost certainly would not be one of the bombers, why would you | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
burn an asset as they would say? So there is far more than just eight | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
people involved, they want this man alive, they want as much information | :13:01. | :13:07. | |
as possible. The 160 odd raids today, the majority will be rounding | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
up the usual suspects. France has 10,000 young Muslims only notice | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
which means they have come to the attention. Of those a much smaller | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
minority-owned actually followed. This man potentially is the key, if | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
he is taken Allied he might not want to say very much. What about this | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
part of Belgium which seems to be seen as a hotbed for | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
radicalisation, it must have been known for? They have had trouble | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
there before, some of the incidents which have emanated from Brussels | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
have come out of there. I used to live in Brussels as a correspondent | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
and we knew about it then. I used to live in Paris in the 80s as a | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
correspondent and you could see it germinating as long ago as that. But | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
every single European capital has an area in which this sort of ideology | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
is coming out. There will be also at a military responses to this and | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
intelligence responses and the third plank of the response is the one | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
which seems to have the least effort put into it. That is combating the | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
ideology that allows these things to come out of these areas which are in | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
every single European capital. Crispin Blunt, what are your | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
thoughts about the attacks and the response? I think the attacks have | :14:31. | :14:38. | |
to be counted into future policy before they happen, we should have | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
expected something like this. We are relatively lucky in London because | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
it is a more difficult target because of the Schengen Agreement, | :14:47. | :14:49. | |
the lack of availability of weapons, the population is not in as much a | :14:50. | :14:56. | |
state of disagreement as they are in France following decades of how the | :14:57. | :15:02. | |
French have pursued assimilation. For those reasons we are in a better | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
place but it does not make us immune at all. As I go around the Palace of | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
Westminster talking to the policemen, it is a likelihood that | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
if they had the capability they would try something against an | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
iconic target like that, so you have to have all the protections in | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
place. But your policy towards the ideology, and towards the territory | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
that that ideology now controls which makes it easier to project | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
attacks on the rest of us, should already have been in place and we | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
need a coherent international plan to make sure that Isis is defeated | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
in Syria and Iraq. That does not defeat the ideology but it makes it | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
more difficult to project. That means you have two sort out Syria. | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
Francois Hollande said it was a declaration of war. An act of war. | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
Would you not say that you have been at war with IS with this | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
radicalisation and radicalism for some time? Absolutely. We talked | :16:08. | :16:16. | |
about war in January this year. Two years ago, France led the UN | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
mandated operation in Mali with some success. France is one of the most | :16:24. | :16:35. | |
active advocate against Daesh. Let's not forget that the different | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
theatres of operations are vast, in Africa with the affiliate of Daesh | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
or the Islamic State and in Syria and Iraq. But France cannot go alone | :16:44. | :16:54. | |
and send troops, that is obvious. But there are tough questions for | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
the coalition and for democracies because democracy is their target. | :16:59. | :17:07. | |
So what are we going to do? Our bombings by plain enough? They | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
hardly contain Irish. The Kurds are the only one actually fighting them | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
on the ground and they do it on our behalf -- they hardly contain | :17:18. | :17:26. | |
Daesh. Islamic State is convinced that democracies are not going to | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
send troops and that is probably what feeds there in credible cheek | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
and ambition to strike us at home. These Paris attacks, there will be | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
more, as These Paris attacks, there will be | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
and not only in France. Is there support in Paris from people for an | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
infant the bombing we have seen by France on Raqqa, for example? There | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
is a limit on what you can do. President Francois Hollande could | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
not just stay idle but President Francois Hollande could | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
hand, it is exactly what Isis wants. You talk to people on the | :18:07. | :18:13. | |
streets and they say yes, of course, but what next? The key is | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
intelligence much more than bombings and also cooperation with tween | :18:19. | :18:26. | |
allies and democracies because they hate everything democracy stands for | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
and Paris and France is one of the birthplace of them are Kgosi and is | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
the main target. When -- birthplace of the Moxey. When do you think -- | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
democracy. When do you think Paris will get | :18:45. | :18:55. | |
back to normal? Since January there is a new normal, you cannot have | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
more Armed Forces deployed as you already have. Of course you have | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
soft target and the 10th and 11th district were soft targets, | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
extremely vibrant and diverse and useful but nobody could have | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
foreseen that the article and a fitter, which is very well known, | :19:16. | :19:22. | |
would have been a target -- the actor clan Theatre -- Bataclan. They | :19:23. | :19:31. | |
are incredibly ambitious and they know what they are doing and they | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
are planning carefully. We thought the next target might be the Eiffel | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
Tower or something but it is extremely well protected. The French | :19:41. | :19:42. | |
government cannot send troops everywhere. We will have to say | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
goodbye, thank you very much. Well in a show of unity, | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
a minute's silence was held across Europe at 11am today to | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
remember those who died. The mark of silence held | :19:53. | :19:54. | |
across Europe earlier today. Well, what of the international | :19:55. | :20:34. | |
reponse to the attacks? As we've heard, France retaliated | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
overnight with airstrikes, bombing Islamic State targets in the Syrian | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
city of Raqqa and security has been Over the weekend, Ukip's defence | :20:44. | :20:46. | |
spokesman, Mike Hookem, called on European leaders to "hang | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
their heads in shame" and declared I began by asking what he meant | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
by Schengen being dead. We know that these people, | :20:55. | :21:04. | |
I mean I was in northern France, I reported then people traffickers | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
using false passports, getting people into the country, filling | :21:08. | :21:15. | |
them up in cars and vehicles. We now have a situation where Isis, | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
these terrorists, have identified a weakness | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
in our security and are taking full Of course we are not part | :21:23. | :21:24. | |
of that borderless Europe, Yes, we do, | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
but they should be strengthened. More security, more people on | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
the borders, more passport checks. That is being done, | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
the Home Secretary has announced He has announced that today but | :21:41. | :21:42. | |
that has only just happened after Back to the Schengen | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
agreement you say is dead. Do you mean now that borderless | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
Europe is over, that there are going to be border controls set up on all | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
continental European countries? Yes, we've seen it, | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
France are now bringing back the border controls, other countries | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
are bringing back border controls. These people are taking advantage | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
of our weakness in security and they are going to carry on | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
taking advantage of that security. You also slammed European leaders | :22:12. | :22:14. | |
who actively encouraged the migrant crisis and said they | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
should hang their heads in shame. What do you mean in terms | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
of the migrant crisis in relation to Nigel Farage said in April that this | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
was going to happen, that Isis was going to flood the continent with | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
terrorists and freedom fighters In August, | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
when I was over there in northern France, I was saying then that this | :22:35. | :22:41. | |
was a weak point and people were coming in and some of these people, | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
not all but some of these people But when you look at what happened | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
in Paris, and the identification of the suicide bombers that have | :22:49. | :22:56. | |
been made public, only one has been linked, and even yet that is still | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
yet to be completely formally The others were | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
home-grown terrorists. But they are being supplied | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
and there is more people coming Do you think this attack would not | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
have happened if there hadn't been a flow of refugees and migrants from | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
Libya to Greece and through Europe? I'm saying it's being helped | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
by the flow of migrants coming in and the lack of checks | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
and security on the borders. So when you say that European | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
leaders who actively encouraged the migrant crisis should hang their | :23:31. | :23:32. | |
heads in shame, are you thinking In April, Nigel Farage stood up in | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
the Parliament and said that this was a likelihood, a real chance of | :23:36. | :23:46. | |
this happening, and he was laughed Is this the time to be making party | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
political points, When I'm sat there that night | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
looking at what was going on across in France, this is an | :23:56. | :24:05. | |
absolute tragedy, it was shocking. But as politicians, | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
we have to be looking to the future and we have to be looking | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
at what weaknesses on the borders. We was highlighting these weaknesses | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
and people should step up now Some of the statements by Ukip | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
members, including the deputy chairman Suzanne Evans, | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
have blamed Islam for the attacks. This is about a small minority | :24:25. | :24:26. | |
of people who have She has tweeted, | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
"Will politicians finally admit... I'm not going to defend | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
Suzanne Evans on this programme. I'm stating now there is | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
a small number of, you know, Islamic terrorists who have | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
a warped sense of Islam. Was she wrong to say, | :24:47. | :24:48. | |
"Will politicians finally admit that the Paris attacks had something to | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
do with Islam"? Suzanne will have to defend herself, | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
I'm not here to defend her. Right, but you don't think she was | :24:54. | :24:56. | |
right to say it was Islam As I said, there are | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
a small number of these terrorists Nigel Farage will be giving | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
a speech on foreign policy tonight. Can we expect any changes to Ukip | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
policy? No, | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
I think Nigel will be himself and he will be strong on the message he has | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
been sending out for many months. But what will he be proposing other | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
than what you have said today? I haven't seen Nigel's speech, I | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
haven't spoken to him this weekend. What would you like to hear | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
from him? What sort of tone do you | :25:29. | :25:30. | |
think he should strike? He's got to have a tough tone | :25:31. | :25:32. | |
on the foreign policy As we have been saying, | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
this has to be a grand coalition of the countries, bringing Russia | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
and bringing China, Nato, the Arab Do you think we should be | :25:40. | :25:42. | |
bombing Isis in Syria? Bombing is all well and good | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
if there is a strategy Wholesale bombing is | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
not going to work. There has to be a strategy to | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
the end, there has to be troops Who those troops are, I don't know, | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
whether they be Nato troops, Russian troops, but there has to be | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
troops on the ground. Would you like to see Nato come | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
in at this stage? It is an act of war and I think Nato | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
has to get involved. Let's talk about this declaration of | :26:13. | :26:29. | |
war. David Cameron did not want to use that sentiment this morning. I | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
mentioned Nato, does it have any implications for Nato? Potentially. | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
The French president was the first to say it. It was followed up in the | :26:39. | :26:46. | |
French press, a headline saying that this time it was war. He can invoke | :26:47. | :26:53. | |
Article five of the Nato charter is the wishes, an attack on one is an | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
attack on all which is only done once before and that was after 9/11. | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
I don't think that is necessary at the moment. It might even come big | :27:04. | :27:10. | |
things. You will have seen at the G8 entry -- T20, Putin and Obama | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
talking. That was at least half an hour. Which is unusual for them. The | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
Prime Minister has been talking with Putin today. The Chief of defence | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
staff got in a bit of hot water saying that we were abandoning our | :27:27. | :27:29. | |
allies and that we needed to get some sort of strategy with Putin. | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
That is getting traction now. Nicolas Sarkozy has said it and he | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
might be standing again. I'm not making an argument one way or the | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
other but what seemed outlandish is coming into the centre. Do you | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
support that dialogue but you look David Cameron has met with Vladimir | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
Putin, they have talked about a unified response, is that the right | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
response and pragmatic politics? We have eight necessity to defeat Isis | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
and to do that you have to bring the Syrian Civil War to a conclusion | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
because you had to work out who in Syria will take and hold the | :28:09. | :28:13. | |
territory and administer it, that is hold by Isis and that means a | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
conversation with Putin. He and the Iranians are supporting the Syrian | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
regime. All of this has begun, it began in the wake of the downing of | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
the Russian airliner. There was a follow-up meeting in Vienna and the | :28:28. | :28:33. | |
conclusions from that are encouraging, about setting out | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
conclusions from that are international strategy and a pathway | :28:38. | :28:38. | |
to some resolution of the Syrian Civil War. | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
to some resolution of the Syrian with identifying who the terrorist | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
groups within Syria are so there is a process happening and we have to | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
get behind that and make sure the Iranians and the Saudis are part of | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
it. So do Turkey, as well as the Russians and the Americans. | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
it. So do Turkey, as well as the sticking point was that the Russians | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
would have two stop bombing what work colloquially known as | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
opposition to Bashar al-Assad full stop they want to keep him there and | :29:09. | :29:11. | |
Britain doesn't. stop they want to keep him there and | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
agreement is the political stop they want to keep him there and | :29:16. | :29:16. | |
elections that will involve all stop they want to keep him there and | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
Syrians. The Russian line is that it is for the Syrians to choose their | :29:25. | :29:28. | |
leader. Within an electoral and political process that is meant | :29:29. | :29:29. | |
leader. Within an electoral and starting on January one, with all | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
the international players, who all have dogs in this fight, they have | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
agreed to put pressure on their clients to make them sit down at the | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
table and begin that process of transition. Is rooting | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
table and begin that process of militarily possible? Yes. With or | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
without ground troops? That is more problematic. You have to have ground | :29:57. | :30:04. | |
troops. Whose troops? It'll be a conventional land to take and hold | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
the ground currently administered by Isis. They are running a adamant | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
there and controlling territory. It would be infinitely better if those | :30:13. | :30:18. | |
round trips come from both sides of the Comput -- those ground troops | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
come from both sides of the conflict and also come from Turkey, Saudi | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
Arabia, Egypt and Jordan, those are the countries who should be putting | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
together troops along with the Iraqi army. | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
If they can put together an operation in Yemen they can do it in | :30:36. | :30:45. | |
Syria. Total air supremacy, target acquisition, special forces, all the | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
things which will enable the conventional military operation to | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
be relatively straight forward in that sense against an enemy the size | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
and as well-equipped as Isis, if it can put together properly we can | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
make sure the ground troops are able to complete the operation. That is | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
the ideal situation. But if they are not prepared to do it we will have | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
to look eventually at other options. It goes straight to the Isis | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
ideological narrative, if it is Western Force is or Iranians forces | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
who are the people on the ground. Is continued British noninvolvement in | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
Syria in terms of bombing looking increasingly untenable Crispin? It's | :31:31. | :31:45. | |
an important point, the House of Commons at some point will be | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
asked, I hope, to approve a contribution to the land air | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
campaign which will take out Isis. I hope it doesn't involve British | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
ground troops but it should involve a more substantial British air | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
campaign than is being suggested. I think the House of Commons, in Askin | :32:06. | :32:14. | |
for right thing and this is what Britain should be doing with our | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
international partners. Saying it is all very well, but we have to get a | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
coherent international strategy together. We all agree Isis are our | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
enemy and must be defeated. We have all taken serious casualties. Let's | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
make the decisions necessary to put the strategy in place. What about | :32:35. | :32:39. | |
the immediate response on the continent? Agnes Poirier seeing you | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
cannot have more armed guards on the street, you cannot prevent those | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
kind of attacks. What about Schengen? What about the EU? Has it | :32:50. | :32:57. | |
been exposed in a way which is irreparable? It was already | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
suffering hammer blows because of the refugee crisis and this is a | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
greater blow from which it might not recover and of course the refugee | :33:05. | :33:08. | |
story has not finished. The causality is not yet established but | :33:09. | :33:13. | |
IS did announce they were going to send people with refugees. I don't | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
think there is not a great move deal more which can be done than which is | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
already being done. Poland said they would not get involved taking | :33:27. | :33:28. | |
refugees after this because they have seen what can happen. The whole | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
thing is coming down. Militarily there will be our response and IS | :33:34. | :33:43. | |
will lose, the same way that Al-Qaeda dead and prevent replaced | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
by IS. But they will be followed by another group unless you deal with | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
it at the root. Accept that the ideology, there has to be a | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
softening of some of the teachings that these people get. Crispin | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
Blunt, thank you very much, Tim, you are staying with us. | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
Well, the attacks in Paris will undoubtedly have implications | :34:08. | :34:09. | |
The Prime Minister has called for the | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
the British public to show "resolve" in the wake of the terror attacks. | :34:13. | :34:15. | |
Mr Cameron promised extra funding for the UK's security services to | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
help combat Islamic State terrorism, revealing that seven plots has been | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
Let's talk now to our political correspondent Chris Mason. | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
Can you elaborate on the new measures which are being brought in? | :34:31. | :34:39. | |
The Prime Minister has given a press conference in the last hour in | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
Turkey at the G20 summit before flying back to London. What did we | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
learn? He says there have been agreements at the summit over | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
intelligence sharing and cutting off the financing for terrorist groups. | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
He says there will be a big increase in the amount of money spent in the | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
UK on aviation security and for the first time cooperations amongst G20 | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
countries on that theme. They have also fast forwarded an announcement | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
on boosts to the intelligence services, an extra 1900 operatives | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
will be recruited. That will obviously take some time before they | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
are up and running, trained, have been through the security checks | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
which will take place for anyone hired by those organisations. The | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
Prime Minister also making the case that in his view there is not any | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
border between Iraq and Syria as far as Isil are concerned so that UK | :35:37. | :35:43. | |
should not necessarily feel obliged to take account of that in its | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
bombing raids on Isil which at the moment are restricted to Iraq. But | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
the is a real sense from many MPs hear that they are yet to be | :35:52. | :35:56. | |
persuaded, particularly Jeremy Corbyn this morning making it very | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
clear that he sees France's additional attacks on Isil over the | :36:01. | :36:02. | |
weekend as potentially counter-productive. Thank you Chris | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
And joining us now, the Conservative MP, Oliver Dowden. | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
The Labour MP, Chris Matheson and, from Salford, Haras Rafiq | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
And Tim Marshall is still here. The seven foiled plots indicate that | :36:14. | :36:24. | |
Islamic State do pose a threat in the UK, are we at risk to the same | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
degree as brands? Yes but we are better prepared. -- as France. It is | :36:31. | :36:41. | |
hard to get a Kalashnikov here. You mentioned that a rocket launcher has | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
been found in one of the raids. Even in the 1990s French gangsters were | :36:48. | :36:55. | |
using rocket propelled grenades on money carriers. And they don't just | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
have a helmet, they have a bullet-proof vest. If the gangsters | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
can get Kalashnikovs so can the Islamists. They have seven borders | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
and have not been any checks on any of them. The UK is in a different | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
position. But I am pretty sure that at some point there will be an | :37:15. | :37:21. | |
attempt like this. But we do have, very, very good intelligence and | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
that is why the Prime Minister has today announced what I think is a | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
15% budget increase in intelligence services. This attack is almost | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
impossible to protect against, that is the problem? Yes, and I think | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
what it points to first of all is that Islamic State, if we had any | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
doubt, present a clear threat to our national security in this country. | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
We have seen these attacks on a Russian plane, on the beaches of | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
Tunisia, the attack in Paris. There is clearly a threat here. In | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
response what we need to look at is how we can help the security | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
services do their job. From my time working in number ten I was aware of | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
the number of plots which are actually foiled and we need to give | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
the security services the power to do that. And we need to look at how | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
weedy with Isis in Syria -- how we deal with. Do you agree that any | :38:19. | :38:27. | |
objections on Civil Liberties grounds to increasing surveillance | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
or current legislation by Theresa May, will fall on deaf ears? We | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
cannot allow a terrorist attack however dreadful to dictate | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
long-term policy in these areas. There have to be some changes, some | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
moves to bring up to date the surveillance powers of the | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
intelligence agencies. But we have to do that within the context of a | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
country which remains committed to liberty including judicial | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
involvement in the warrants. It appears some of the attackers were | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
French European citizens, some of whom were thought to have returned | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
from fighting in Syria or Iraq with Islamic State. The police say that | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
out of the 700 British people who have gone to Syria have have | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
returned to the country, we are at risk and we? Absolutely, people have | :39:16. | :39:24. | |
been talking about extremism, ten years ago we were talking about | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
Al-Qaeda inspired extremism, the reality is that IS, Isil and | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
Al-Qaeda did not inspire extremism, extremism inspired them. We are | :39:35. | :39:41. | |
living in a time of the global jihadists insurgency. That is not | :39:42. | :39:48. | |
sustainable unless there is support. We are living in a time where there | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
is some support for the political ideology which underpins the | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
particular form of extremism and theology which empowers people to | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
carry out these attacks. If theology which empowers people to | :40:02. | :40:09. | |
the lens of Isil or defeating IS as we did with | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
the lens of Isil or defeating IS as mentioned that we had a won the war | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
against Al-Qaeda, I've ever speaking to a senior politician when Osama | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
bin Ladin was killed and saying this is not over and he | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
bin Ladin was killed and saying this we have taken out the leader. | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
Clearly we have not. The risk is from the ideology which reads | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
youngsters to be brainwashed and recruited to this worldview where | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
their identity is no longer British or French or anything like that. It | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
is Islamist jihadists. That is what we need to tackle. How would you | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
tackle it? What would be the first thing you would do? If you see a | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
continuation from Al-Qaeda to thing you would do? If you see a | :40:50. | :40:55. | |
what would you do? One thing which has not been tried is to | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
what would you do? One thing which ideology. We have only had half of a | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
prevention strategy. We were looking to this | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
prevention strategy. We were looking security and I am not saying we | :41:08. | :41:09. | |
shouldn't. It government to protect its citizens. | :41:10. | :41:13. | |
But we have government to protect its citizens. | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
task force where we have to government to protect its citizens. | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
civil society coalitions, alliances to deconstruct the ideology, the | :41:23. | :41:32. | |
the alternatives. Have a strategy and in actual fact, the preventative | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
strategy for and in actual fact, the preventative | :41:39. | :41:45. | |
say they have been a limited by the government, they were not included | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
in discussions. Do you agree it has been a failure? This is something | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
the parameter takes very seriously. He is committed to tackling | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
extremism at source -- something the Prime Minister takes very seriously. | :42:01. | :42:01. | |
This cannot be done easily, Prime Minister takes very seriously. | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
are challenges as to how you best achieve this. You | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
are challenges as to how you best years and all we | :42:10. | :42:12. | |
are challenges as to how you best stream of people from Britain and | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
other European countries going to fight in Syria. There are two | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
issues, first late tackle a thing fight in Syria. There are two | :42:18. | :42:24. | |
firstly tackling it in this country. There is a second issue which | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
relates to people coming back from Syria which is more a case of how do | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
we monitor the people who have gone out and been radicalised and are | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
coming back. That is a combination of education and the security | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
services keeping tabs. The failure has been people going out in the | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
first place. Why have they been so attracted to the ideology of the | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
prevent strategy has been successful? You cannot expect one | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
strategy alone to be the cure all bullet. There are tremendous pulls | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
to countries like Syria where there is a missed placed romanticism, | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
almost as if it was taking place in the Spanish Civil War. You cannot | :43:04. | :43:12. | |
tackle it all at once. Are you shaking your head because you don't | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
think prevent has worked in anyway shape or form, or enough | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
understanding of the problem? If you look at a lot of the success in | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
terms of empowering schools to do safeguarding, it has been done this | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
year. Five years of the Coalition Government, there was not any, one | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
particular government department tasked with going out to communities | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
and in power voices to take on the challenge. It didn't happen. Now it | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
is happening so it is correct to say the prevent strategy had not worked | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
because we only had half a prevent strategy. Now the gap is being | :43:53. | :43:57. | |
filled but it is only recently where they buy minister has made some | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
inroads -- the Prime Minister has made some inroads. We have not | :44:02. | :44:08. | |
tackled the ideology that eight minority within a minority have | :44:09. | :44:13. | |
decided to go out to Iraq and Syria. The Prime Minister is doing it now | :44:14. | :44:17. | |
but we should have done it five years ago. How much responsibility | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
rests with the Muslim community in Britain? I don't think we are | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
talking about Muslim issues, Islamic State are a fascist grip and if we | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
understand it is a fascist ideology we can separate it entirely from | :44:32. | :44:37. | |
most mainstream Muslim thought. There will be some individuals out | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
there, hate preachers and someone who will need to be dealt with. But | :44:41. | :44:47. | |
the huge majority of Muslims, certainly in Chester where I know | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
the community, and right across, are horrified by these attacks. There is | :44:51. | :44:56. | |
a huge responsibility on news on committees in particular to identify | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
those people who are perhaps at risk, perhaps acting a little | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
strangely. But that could be the same of any of us looking at people | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
being radicalised. Do you agree, does there need to be more | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
responsibility from within the community to help identify people | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
who might be vulnerable to this sort of ideology? | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
If you look at the statistics of people going out to join Isil and | :45:22. | :45:29. | |
convicted of these attacks, it is a fallacy to say that they are not | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
educated, middle-class or upper middle class, 40s and percent of the | :45:34. | :45:42. | |
people convicted in the UK have had higher education. -- 47%. We have to | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
look at this, not just to the point where they become violent, we have | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
to look at the whole concept of totalitarianism, the idea of this | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
Islamist caliphate, enforcing their version of Shahril or, that is what | :46:01. | :46:09. | |
we need to tackle. -- sharia law. There is a whole roll for Muslims | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
and non-Muslims. The new community engagement Forum is not a Muslim | :46:15. | :46:20. | |
engagement Forum, it is a community engagement Forum with Muslims and | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
non-Muslims coming together to form these alliances and tackle this. It | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
is a problem for the whole immunity but Muslims, people like me need to | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
play our part -- the whole community. Tweets are coming in | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
saying that France will call for effective suspension of Schengen on | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
Friday. I'll use a prized? Not in the least -- are you surprised. | :46:46. | :46:52. | |
What is happening is Fortress nation state and not Fortress Europe. They | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
will not be a big ring around Europe, there is odd why are going | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
up and there are deep divisions in our heads -- there is barbed wire. I | :47:05. | :47:15. | |
think IS are fascists, they are Islamic fascists and I don't think | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
you can separate religion from it which is unpopular but a personal | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
belief. But they are going to lose but in the manner of them losing we | :47:25. | :47:27. | |
are going to divide and that is pretty sad. Thank you for joining | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
us. Now let's take a look | :47:31. | :47:32. | |
at how the political map is shaping This afternoon in the Commons, | :47:33. | :47:34. | |
MPs will debate plans to boost counter-terrorism | :47:35. | :47:39. | |
and aviation security. Tonight the Prime Minister will give | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
his annual speech on foreign policy at the Lord Mayor's banquet | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
in the City of London. And Ukip leader Nigel Farage will | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
also give a speech this evening, addressing the events in Paris, as | :47:52. | :47:56. | |
part of his "Say No to the EU" tour. On Wednesday David Cameron faces | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn across the despatch box | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
for our weekly dose of PMQs. And on Thursday the House of Commons | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
will discuss issues surrounding A debate secured by the Conservative | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
back-bencher Phillip Davies. And with us now, | :48:11. | :48:20. | |
Steve Richards from the Independent and Tim Shipman, Political Editor | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
of the Sunday Times. Steve Richards, David Cameron is | :48:23. | :48:34. | |
giving a speech on foreign policy, do you expect him to say that event | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
in Paris underline the case for British air strikes in Syria? He | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
thought before Paris, wrongly in my view, that there was a case for air | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
strikes. It is a statement of the obvious, if you can't get a majority | :48:51. | :48:53. | |
in the House of Commons, they will not put it to the house. I can't see | :48:54. | :48:59. | |
why these air strikes, sorry, the event in Paris on Friday, change the | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
essential argument. Some MPs have told me they think there is a | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
majority in the House of Commons for air strikes and probably was before | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
Paris because you have a section of the Labour Party who will back them. | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
He won't do it until he is sure he will win the vote and that remains | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
unchanged. Is there a continued campaign to get the numbers? There | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
were conflicting reports over the weekend, some Labour MPs said they | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
had not been talk to but others said they had and there was a coalition | :49:34. | :49:39. | |
to get support. If they make the effort, there is probably the | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
numbers. Michael Fallon has been getting people into the MoD, | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
including Labour MPs. My understanding is that will | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
continue. What needs to happen, and people around the Prime Minister | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
know this, is that he has to get stuck in himself and make this | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
argument. Steve said the argument hasn't changed, it probably hasn't, | :50:02. | :50:06. | |
and there is still big argument about whether you bomb one side of | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
an artificial line or the other and if it makes a difference. There is a | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
sense that senior people like Crispin Blunt are beginning to edge | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
back a bit from the precipice of a hundred patient with the PM and if | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
he makes the effort and gets people in himself, there is a majority -- a | :50:25. | :50:33. | |
confrontation. The Prime Minister is committed to having action in Syria | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
and we had the vote three years ago. I don't think this completely | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
changes the argument but it is further evidence that Isis present a | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
risk to national security and we should be taking efforts to deal | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
with it. The Prime Minister has said there is no point in having the vote | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
if you know the result will be the same. When the catered been made, | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
then we can have a vote. -- the case has been made. Should he be making | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
this central to his efforts if he believes in it? You heard him this | :51:08. | :51:14. | |
morning, he is repeating this argument that we need to deal with | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
Isis. That sounds like he will push but but but the Foreign Affairs | :51:20. | :51:26. | |
Committee report. That was not written without them being fully | :51:27. | :51:30. | |
aware of the risks. Paris confirms that. They were there before Paris | :51:31. | :51:36. | |
and they are still there. Crispin said on your programme that there | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
has to be some kind of coherent military strategy involving Buttin | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
and others before they endorse further military action -- Putin. It | :51:46. | :51:55. | |
is interesting that the vote three years ago was about arming Assad but | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
things have moved on. It is now Islamic State. There is a Civil War | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
with five or six different sides. I'm not clear whether arming Assad | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
or Islamic state or both would have to fight that Civil War or clarify | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
the outcome. Would you vote against the dish military... -- Berchiche | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
military. At a flop At the moment, I can't see how UK | :52:22. | :52:39. | |
bombing any side debate several -- any side of a civil war in Syria. We | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
can hear what Jeremy Corbyn had to say. He is echoing those sentiments. | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
The idea has to be, surely, a political settlement in Syria. | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
There are some signs that the talks over the weekend made some progress. | :52:57. | :53:02. | |
Iraq, Russia, USA, European Union around the table together with all | :53:03. | :53:04. | |
the regional governments, particularly Turkey, is key. | :53:05. | :53:08. | |
Who is providing safe havens for Isis? | :53:09. | :53:15. | |
You have to ask questions about the arms that everybody has | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
sold in the region, the role of Saudi Arabia in this. | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
I think there are some very big questions and we have to be careful. | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
One war doesn't necessarily bring about peace, | :53:25. | :53:26. | |
it often can bring more conflict and more mayhem and more loss. | :53:27. | :53:37. | |
That was Jeremy Corbyn. If it came to the Commons, if David Cameron | :53:38. | :53:48. | |
felt there were enough Labour MPs on board to back British military air | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
strikes, should Jeremy Corbyn give his MPs a free vote? I suspect a lot | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
of MPs would vote with their conscience anyway because it is a | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
tough decision. There will have to be negotiations and they can't | :54:05. | :54:10. | |
include any regard for Islamic State, there is no negotiating with | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
them. There has to be some kind of international settlement. The Prime | :54:17. | :54:19. | |
Minister has been talking to President Putin which I suspect will | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
help to clarify the situation but until we have that clarity about | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
where we are going and how to get there, I can't see I would be voting | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
in favour of it. That is work in progress for the Prime Minister. | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has not changed his mind. He is making perfectly | :54:37. | :54:41. | |
legitimate points about a political settlement, this is something they | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
are trying to push forward, there is a view in the Labour Party that he | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
would not countenance military action under any circumstances. He | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
has to be careful because if he goes too far to that extreme, he will | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
push some of his front ventures who think there is a case for | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
intervention, more likely to go against him if he appears to be | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
digging himself into that pacifist hole. Let's talk about the measures | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
announced today, the extra spending towards intelligence officers. | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
Despite the fact that we don't have any money, we have found money for | :55:20. | :55:25. | |
this, rightly so? The politics with this is the politics of the long | :55:26. | :55:33. | |
haul, the Arno instant solutions. -- there are no instant solutions. I | :55:34. | :55:40. | |
think the proposals from Theresa May to give intelligence agencies access | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
to Internet records are legitimate. I think George Osborne's spending | :55:46. | :55:52. | |
review comes into this because the policing cuts as originally proposed | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
are not sustainable. Community policing has stopped some terrorists | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
from acting and yet their budget is massively under threat. All of these | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
things come into play. They make a difference. My doubt is whether an | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
immediate vote on military action in Syria is the right response. These | :56:13. | :56:16. | |
other things are and that includes the surveillance thing. What is the | :56:17. | :56:22. | |
point of spending extra money on spies and intelligence services if | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
you are going to cut the police? Let's wait to see what is in the | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
spending review. We know their budget will be cut. On the | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
intelligent agencies, the government has rightly prioritised this. But it | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
has to be in parallel, you had to beef up resources but also make sure | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
they have the tools and that is why it is important we press ahead with | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
the investigatory powers at the same time. Would you support more funding | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
for the police? I would support more funding for every area of public | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
services for the we still have an enormous budget deficit. We have to | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
take difficult decisions but the prioritisation of resources for the | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
intelligent services shows that the Prime Minister will not compromise | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
national security. It is not just the police, we have seen cuts to the | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
immigration services so we are still not sure who is coming in and out of | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
the country. It is a complicated picture. Looking to cut the police | :57:23. | :57:29. | |
in the way it seems proposed frankly would be a dangerous step. And it | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
would not go down well with the public. This is very dangerous | :57:33. | :57:41. | |
politics. We are pulling 600 watts, -- following 600 plots. If the Prime | :57:42. | :57:50. | |
Minister wants to use his political capital on the back of Paris he | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
would be better advised to use it pushing through these surveillance | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
laws and beefing up the nub of people who can track down the | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
perpetrators of these acts. The other argument we might start to see | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
is about armed police. Every single French policeman was armed and they | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
could respond relatively quickly. Could we really respond that quickly | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
on the streets of London? Should we have more armed police on the | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
streets? Again, in the context of budget cuts, it is a tough question | :58:27. | :58:29. | |
to ask. The training has to be right, they have do have regular | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
access to continuing training, it is a major step to make it if it | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
reassures the public, it is something that can be looked at. | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
Improving intelligence might be a better way forward. | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :58:47. | :58:50. | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
He's in an exotic land. In the far reaches of northern Europe. | :58:53. | :59:05. | |
A place of unbelievable history, myth and legend. | :59:06. | :59:09. |