17/11/2015 Daily Politics


17/11/2015

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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:36.:00:38.

There's more money for the spies at GCHQ

:00:39.:00:41.

in the wake of the Paris terror attacks.

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But as George Osborne agrees billions of pounds worth

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of cuts elsewhere how hard will he hit the police budget?

:00:47.:00:50.

There's trouble brewing for Jeremy Corbyn as he questions the

:00:51.:00:53.

right of the British police to shoot to kill a heavily-armed terrorist

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and wonders whether the air strike targetting Jihadi John was legal.

:00:58.:01:01.

Is this how a Labour Leader should react to a terrorist outrage?

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At least one of the Paris attackers is alleged

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to have entered the European Union posing as a Syrian refugee.

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Is it time to close the EU's borders in the face of the terrorist threat?

:01:12.:01:16.

And how to counter extremism here in the UK.

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How do we guard against the threat of more home-grown terrorism?

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And with us for the whole of the programme today is the former

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Chief Crown Prosecutor in the North West of England, Nazir Afzal.

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First this morning, how should an opposition leader

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react to events like the terrorist atrocity in Paris?

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Well, yesterday, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn,

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did a round of broadcast interviews in which he was asked about security

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But some of his comments have gone down badly with his own MPs.

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In a BBC interview yesterday, Mr Corbyn warned I was not happy with

:02:04.:02:09.

the police policy of shoot-to-kill with a terror attack. He warned any

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such policy could be dangerous and counterproductive. In a separate

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interview, the Labour Leader questioned the legality of the drone

:02:18.:02:21.

strike which is thought to have killed the terrorist known as Jihadi

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John. He said, I'm awaiting an explanation where the legal basis

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was for that incident. Mr Corbyn's links to Stop the War Coalition.

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Particularly after the article at the weekend in which a group

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insisted Paris had reaped the whirlwind of western support for

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extremist violence in the middle east. Last night, an MP told the BBC

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I've never seen a PLP meeting with that ding rye of discontent voiced.

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Question after question, each devastating. He was reported to have

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been criticised by prominent MPs on shoot-to-kill. Dan Jarvis on his

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Jihadi John comments. What he said about reconsidering air strikes in

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Iraq by John Woodcock. To add to the Labour Leader's woes. This morning,

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Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary Benn said it is perfectly reasonable for

:03:17.:03:20.

police to shoot those who are a threat to life.

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She is now looking at ways of tackling Europe's refugee crisis.

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You reportedly asked Jeremy Corbyn last night for reassurance the

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Labour Party would continue to support shoot-to-kill. That means

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the police can shoot terrorists when they pose an immediate threat to

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life. Has he given you that assurance? My point is we've a long

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standing legal framework which allows for the use of lethal force

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in situations where you have imminent threat to life. Terrorists

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on the streets killing people. That, I think, that legal framework is

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important and needs to continue. I understand there's been reports in

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the papers today Jeremy has confirmed he also supports that now.

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I think, obviously I disagree with what he said yesterday. He said I'm

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not happy with the shoot-to-kill policy in general. It is quite

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dangerous and can often be counterproductive. Was he wrong?

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You've very serious threats. If people are being killed, you saw,

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think of what happened in the Bataclan. If you think about the

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kinds of terrorists we are dealing with, suicide pommers and so on,

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there are times when the police need to make mayor own operational

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decision -- suicide bombers. The police have to make the decisions

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about those circumstances and when in those circumstances lethal force

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is justified. I think everybody would expect that when you want to

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protect innocent lives and are dealing with this kind of threat.

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Understanding everyone's confirmed that continues to to be our

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position. It needs to be. Just to be clear, in your mind, Jeremy Corbyn,

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has he personally said to you, Yvette Cooper, you wanted a

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reassurance about this, I do support the police's shoot-to-kill policy in

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those circumstances? No, I haven't spoken to him today. Would you like

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that reassurance in such a sensitive time. If there was any people were

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misconstruing what he meant that he's clear about it? It is good to

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have clarity. But, let's be honest, Jo, this is so important and so

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serious I don't want this to be about who said what to who. He's the

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leader of Her Majesty's opposition. My understanding is this remains the

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Labour Party's policy. I'm clear it has to remain Labour's policy

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supporting the police and security services in a very difficult job

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which they need to be able to do to keep us all safe. There are always

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safeguards with the use of lethal force. There have to be

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investigations whenever it's used, when that happens. You have to be

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able to keep people safe. It is important that we should continue to

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support that. Hilary Benn said this morning. Shoot-to-kill policy was

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perfectly reasonable. In your mind, they are now one, oven though 24

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hours ago, the Shadow Foreign Secretary and the Labour Leader

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seemed to hold different view points? I'm not a member of the

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Shadow Cabinet. I can't speak for Jeremy on this. You heard those two

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views? You've heard my view clearly. Jeremy Corbyn also came under fire

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last night at the meeting of Labour MPs because of hi associations with

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the stop of war coalition. There was a recent blog post now deleted

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saying Paris was reaping the whirlwind of western foreign policy.

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Jeremy Corbyn was chair of the Stop the War Coalition. Should he

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distance himself from stop the war? What they said was appalling.

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Clearly, nobody thinks it was Paris or France that was responsible for

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what happened. It was terrorists who were responsible. At a time when so

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many people are grieving for those they have lost and for the attack to

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our way of life as well. I think it is really important we show

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solidarity for the people of Paris and France. That's what the Labour

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Party was doing yesterday in Parliament. That's what people

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across Britain will be doing tonight when we have the England v France

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game as well. Should he distance himself further? He's due to speak

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at a Christmas fund-raising for Stop the War Coalition. It's not what I

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would do. Jeremy has to speak for himself. Sure, but as a member of

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the Labour parliamentary party, are you happy to see him speak for Stop

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the War Coalition? Jo, I don't think anybody should be associated with

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statements like that. They are appalling. There is a wider issue

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about the very serious threat in terms of extremism and the challenge

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from Isis to Europe and Britain and how we respond. We have to respond

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by having stronger security. That sense of solidarity. Not allowing

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terrorists to divide us. Not allowing them to pick us apart. They

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want to sew fear, division and hatred. That's the real challenge.

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Europe has a lot more to do to be able to respond to this threat. As

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you say, you want to see a united front in terms of the response to

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what happened in Paris and to terrorism around the world. What do

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you make then of Jeremy Corbyn's statement it would have been far

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better if Jihadi John had been arrested rather than hit by a drone

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strike? We know in these circumstances, it wasn't possible to

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arrest him. Was that statement naive in your mind or misguided? I think,

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Jo, there's a wider issue here about what it is that Europe needs to do.

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That is what we should be talking about. Further security measures

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that need to be taken, the support the Government needs to put in place

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and is rightly doing in terms of support for the intelligence and

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security agencies. They need to go further in terms of support for

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neighbourhood policing. That local intelligence is immensely important

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and prevention work. The scale of cuts to policing would be the wrong

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approach. I hoe they are now rethinking that. This had is the

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wider European co-operation that needs to take place. Including

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dealing with the refer ghee crisis which is being exploited by

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terrorists as well. Right, but, it does come back to the leader of

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opposition being clear and representing the views of the

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parliamentary party. Are the events in Paris likely to change your

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party's position, or should they, on air strikes in Syria? I think the

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thing we've still not seen from the Government is actually any proposal

:10:06.:10:11.

on Syria. I've backed and I think the Labour Party is right to back,

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the air strikes at the request of the democratically elected Iraqi

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Government against Isis in Iraq. The challenge with Syria is it is much

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more complicated because of President Assad and many of the

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refugees are also fleeing from Assad. It is clear the Prime

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Minister is not going to bring forward a proposal until and unless

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he has the support of enough MPs, not only on his own side but

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particularly from Labour. Should Labour now get behind some sort of

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proposal or not if it comes forward to bomb IS in Syria? I think it

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entirely doo depends on what the proposal is. We've not seen a

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proposal. You have to look at the consequences of any proposal. Have a

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comprehensive strategy to deal with the conflict, the wider civil war in

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Syria. We've not seen that. We are still waiting for the Government to

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come forward with any proposals. Should be it be a free vote? Depends

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on the proposal. Many of us will make our decisions based on what is

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the right thing to do. What was the atmosphere like? We've heard from

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the Labour MPs after that meeting in the House of Commons. Some of the

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backbenchers felt it was the worst meeting they'd ever witnessed in

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terms of response to Jeremy Corbyn's views on Jihadi John, talking about

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shoot-to-kill and on air strikes in Syria. What do you say? I think, if

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this is a meeting for the parliamentary Labour Party that the

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press are not invited to. But Labour MPs come out and... I'm not talking

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about the details. I've told you my views on the issues around the use

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of Leith at force in the face of a terrorist threat, you have to be

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strong and firm. And the issues I've disafreed with Jeremy on. I can tell

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you that. It would not be right for me to talk about the kinds of

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meetings and discussions that take place. Again, I still come back to,

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I think, the wider issue for us as a country. This is not simply about

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one meeting of a Parliamentary Labour Party. This is the wider

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challenge for Britain and for Europe which I don't think we are yet

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meeting and yet responding to given the pressures we face. It will lead

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to the Conservative charge saying Labour cannot be trusted to keeping

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the country safe and that will stick according to the Prime Minister,

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George Osborne as long as Jeremy Corbyn leads Labour? I don't think

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that is the view of the Labour Party. Yesterday, you heard Andy

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burn hum responding to -- Andy Burnham responding to Theresa May

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about her support for the security agencies. We'll stand firm with the

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Government about that. We have to. It is about making people safe and

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keeping them safe. Part of that is about standing up against the

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divisions the terrorists seek to sew. Making sure you can take action

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to prevent extremism and terrorism. You mentioned the cuts to police

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funding and extra spending going to spies and intellingence services.

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George Osborne said he'll double the funding against cybercrime. Should

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Labour match that pledge? Yes, absolutely right to. This is the new

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kind of threat that we also face in terms of the cyber attack. It is an

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important threat to Britain. I think the wider thing about making sure

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you have that intelligence about where imflint threats might be --

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imminent threats might be. That's about sharing information across

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Europe. What do you make of Nigel Farage's comments last night? That

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the UK Muslim population has conflicted royalties? It is an

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appalling thing to say. The Muslim community were one of the first to

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be out condemning the appalling bash rich in Paris. -- barberism in

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Paris. Muslims in Beirut who have experienced the brunt of the Isis

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attack and brutality, many of whom are fleeing from that brutality as

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well. It is Muslim parents in Britain who are seeking to make sure

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that their children are not being groomed and radicalised as well.

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Isis is a perversion of Islam. I think the problem with what Nigel

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Farage said is, this is playing into the hands of extremists by going

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along this track of trying to divide us and pit us against each other

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when we should stand firm against such extremism. Just to go back to

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the initial questions on shoot-to-kill. Are you clear in your

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mind now with what has been said by Labour, they are happy to support

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the shoot-to-kill policy in general? I agree with Yvette. The view, I've

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spent 25 years telling police how they should behave. Their

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operational matters are up to them. We have the best armed officers in

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the world. They rarely use firearms. They should be doing their job, awe

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Lou them without politicians interfering in their jobs. What

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Yvette said about terrorism, set to divide, we need clarity from the

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Labour Party about what they want to do on this subject. These terrorists

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don't represent Islam or anybody. We need Labour Party to say this is

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something we should do about them. Now, Belgium has raised

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its terror alert this morning as the hunt continues for the surviving

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perpetrators of Friday's attack in Paris and their accomplices. The

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Government here is setting out its In a speech at the Mansion House

:15:55.:15:57.

in the City of London last night, the Prime Minister said Britain

:15:58.:16:02.

must summon the spirit of World War II if it is to defeat what

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he called the Isil thugs. It's not just about the amount of

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money we spend or the size of our forces, it's also about our ability

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to deploy them quickly, with the We've seen how vital drones are

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in the fight against Isil. So, with this extra money,

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we're doubling our fleet of drones. We know we need the ability

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to carry out air strikes. So this money will provide

:16:27.:16:32.

for more fighter aircraft. We want to increase the capabilities

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of our brilliant special forces. There will be

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a ?2 billion programme of new We will maintain our continuous

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at sea nuclear deterrent. We'll also invest in

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a new generation of cyber defences to block and disrupt attacks before

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they can harm our United Kingdom. This morning, the Chancellor, George

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Osborne, has been visiting GCHQ in Cheltenham, where he's been warning

:16:56.:17:00.

against the danger of so-called Islamic State launching a cyber

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attack, and promised millions of pounds of extra funding

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for the security services Isil's murderous brutality has

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a strong digital element. At a time when so many others are

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using the internet to enhance freedom and give expression to

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liberal values and creativity, Isil are already using

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the internet for hideous propaganda purposes, for radicalisation,

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for operational planning too. They have not so far been able to

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use it to kill people by attacking our infrastructure

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through cyber attack. They do not yet have

:17:51.:17:52.

that capability. and we know they're doing

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their best to build it. So when we talk about tackling Isil,

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that means tackling their cyber threat as well

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as the threat of their guns And earlier this morning,

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the Chancellor announced that he has provisionally agreed cuts with

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another seven government departments ahead

:18:08.:18:09.

of next week's spending review. Those are the Cabinet Office,

:18:10.:18:14.

the Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Offices,

:18:15.:18:17.

HM Revenue and Customs and both the Work and Pensions and Energy

:18:18.:18:21.

and Climate Change departments. They've all agreed to reduce

:18:22.:18:26.

spending by 6% a year which adds up to a real-term

:18:27.:18:30.

reduction of 21% by 2019/20. The Chancellor has now reached

:18:31.:18:37.

provisional agreements with over half

:18:38.:18:40.

of Whitehall departments totalling more than ?4 billion of savings

:18:41.:18:43.

by the end of the Parliament. And Adam Fleming has more

:18:44.:18:48.

on the Chancellor's announcement. So, is he well on the way to getting

:18:49.:19:00.

the savings he wants? Let's look at the numbers. As you said, the

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Chancellor has now reached a preliminary agreements of about ?4

:19:05.:19:08.

billion worth of savings. But he said earlier this year that he wants

:19:09.:19:12.

to reach a total of ?20 billion of savings by 2020. So far be it from

:19:13.:19:17.

me to say how he is doing, but let's compare the four we have got with

:19:18.:19:21.

the 20 wants to get at the end of this process. You're right that even

:19:22.:19:26.

though he has settled with more than half of the government departments

:19:27.:19:30.

in Whitehall, in 11 out of 20, that means they're still some big

:19:31.:19:34.

spenders who he has not done a deal with - the Home Office, the MoD, the

:19:35.:19:39.

health department, the NHS budget, which he says he will increase, but

:19:40.:19:43.

we are not sure by how much and when. And as usual with the spending

:19:44.:19:48.

review, we are getting big numbers, but not a lot of detail. For

:19:49.:19:51.

example, the Chancellor was saying today that the money saved by HMRC

:19:52.:19:56.

will come from the digitisation of tax collection. No more detail than

:19:57.:20:00.

that. Interestingly, today shows that there was an end to the dispute

:20:01.:20:04.

between George Osborne and Ian Duncan Smith. The welfare secretary

:20:05.:20:08.

was concerned that his budget for universal credit was going to be

:20:09.:20:12.

ready to pay for the delay in tax credits, and he threatened to

:20:13.:20:14.

resign. It looks like that threat has gone away, because they have

:20:15.:20:19.

done a deal. There was also an announcement of more money for the

:20:20.:20:23.

intelligence services, which has come after the Paris attacks. But

:20:24.:20:28.

cuts to police funding? Yes, the police forces in England are

:20:29.:20:32.

expecting big cuts to their budget. Bernard Hogan-Howe, the commission

:20:33.:20:35.

of the Met, is saying he expects cuts over the next five years of up

:20:36.:20:41.

to ?800 million, which means he would have to sack maybe 5000 police

:20:42.:20:45.

officers in London, which sounds like a lot. That is how the Police

:20:46.:20:50.

Federation see it. They represent the rank and file and they have

:20:51.:20:53.

released a statement saying that cuts of that level would jeopardise

:20:54.:20:57.

their ability to protect the public in the UK in the event of a Parisian

:20:58.:21:04.

style terrorist attack. This issue is starting to creep into the House

:21:05.:21:08.

of Commons. Yesterday, after the Home Secretary made her statement

:21:09.:21:13.

about the Paris attacks, a couple of Tory backbenchers started making

:21:14.:21:15.

noises along those lines, that they were worried about the budgets for

:21:16.:21:20.

things like community policing. It was interesting that when George

:21:21.:21:23.

Osborne was answering questions after his speech at GCHQ today, he

:21:24.:21:27.

kept quiet about the idea of whether he would be protecting or cutting

:21:28.:21:28.

police budgets. The Conservative MP, Tom Tugenhadt,

:21:29.:21:29.

is here with us now. Let's talk about those potential

:21:30.:21:46.

cuts to policing, which Bernard Hogan-Howe says would cut front line

:21:47.:21:50.

policing. Is that what we should be doing at a time like this? It is

:21:51.:21:54.

staggering. I have worked with police up and down the country and I

:21:55.:21:57.

have worked with the prosecution service for 25 years, and all those

:21:58.:22:00.

agencies Arlene. There is nothing more they can give. -- and they

:22:01.:22:07.

Arlene. The back-office operation has been decimated. What were

:22:08.:22:11.

talking about extremism, the best eyes and ears of the community

:22:12.:22:15.

officers, the PCSOs, and I'm hearing that all of these police officers

:22:16.:22:19.

are talking about cutting those numbers. That is putting people at

:22:20.:22:24.

risk. We cannot have a situation where public safety is diminished in

:22:25.:22:30.

this way. According to Nazir Afzal, if those who are the eyes and ears

:22:31.:22:33.

on the street time when terrorism is on heightened alert, it would be a

:22:34.:22:36.

mistake. Should your government be cutting police numbers? We must work

:22:37.:22:41.

together on this. Terrorism is not an issue solely for the security

:22:42.:22:46.

forces, be it the military or GCHQ or the police, nor is it the job of

:22:47.:22:50.

the community alone. It is the job of everyone to work together. What

:22:51.:22:56.

is particularly important is, when young men, and sadly, it is

:22:57.:23:02.

particularly young men, are getting radicalised in different parts of

:23:03.:23:04.

our community, it is essential that community leaders are families,

:23:05.:23:09.

relatives and friends highlight this. There is no way we can put a

:23:10.:23:15.

policeman on every street corner, and nor would we want to. So we have

:23:16.:23:19.

to engage with the community more closely, and we have to remind the

:23:20.:23:23.

community that they also have a responsibility in protecting their

:23:24.:23:26.

young men and women from these people. The most trusted police

:23:27.:23:30.

officers are those who work in those communities. People do not win

:23:31.:23:37.

counterterrorism helplines, they talk to an officer that they

:23:38.:23:41.

recognise and trust. If they are not there, we will not get that

:23:42.:23:46.

information. They are there. But you are going to cut them if the

:23:47.:23:49.

proposal goes through that George Osborne has put through the cuts to

:23:50.:23:53.

unprotected departments like the Home Office. Should they be cut? I

:23:54.:23:58.

am not going to tell the police commissioners for the whole of

:23:59.:24:00.

England, Wales and Scotland how to do their jobs. It is for them to

:24:01.:24:05.

prioritise. I am asking you about George Osborne. You are asking if

:24:06.:24:10.

they should cut individual officers. It is not for me to tell police

:24:11.:24:15.

commissioners how to do their jobs. That is why we have police and crime

:24:16.:24:18.

commissioners who will be elected next year to prioritise the

:24:19.:24:24.

allocation of resources. Nazir is right that community engagement is

:24:25.:24:27.

the front line of defence against terrorism, but that is not alone.

:24:28.:24:31.

The community police officers stand with the community. The community

:24:32.:24:37.

have a fundamental response ability, because we police by

:24:38.:24:42.

content in this country. We are not a bitter Tory or state. We need

:24:43.:24:47.

community leaders, be they imams or leaders of community groups or be

:24:48.:24:50.

they family and friends, we need that to be the eyes and ears,

:24:51.:24:53.

because they are protecting themselves and us as citizens. Is

:24:54.:24:57.

that because there will not be enough police? I must get an answer

:24:58.:25:01.

from you on whether you think, in the wake of the Paris attacks,

:25:02.:25:05.

should Lord Osborne rethink his cuts to police funding? I have taken your

:25:06.:25:10.

point that it is up to police commissioners to decide response

:25:11.:25:13.

booties, but Bernard Hogan-Howe says he would have to cut up to 5000

:25:14.:25:19.

officers. He did not say that, the federation said that. It is up to

:25:20.:25:24.

Bernard Hogan-Howe. On LBC, he said it is a massive change and as a

:25:25.:25:27.

result, I worry about the safety of London. We think we may lose up to

:25:28.:25:32.

8000 police officers. I did not hear that interview, I only heard it

:25:33.:25:37.

reported by the federation. It is up to Bernard Hogan-Howe to decide how

:25:38.:25:42.

to allocate the resources he has. I will not lecture him on how to do

:25:43.:25:46.

it. I welcome that he said he will put more police on the streets of

:25:47.:25:49.

London, and I particularly welcome the investment in intelligence,

:25:50.:25:54.

because if you want to address this, intelligence is fundamental. Why is

:25:55.:25:57.

it more important for intelligence to get funding than the police on

:25:58.:26:01.

the streets? It is a combination. But you are giving more to one and

:26:02.:26:07.

taking money from the other. No, we are addressing different aspects.

:26:08.:26:10.

The intelligence services have been underinvested in and I welcome the

:26:11.:26:14.

Chancellor's investment, because a lot of this problem is coming from

:26:15.:26:17.

overseas. We have spoken about Syria in the past. The actions of foreign

:26:18.:26:24.

criminals in lecturing, preaching and spreading hate through the cyber

:26:25.:26:30.

highways is a serious threat. I can only take from you that you agree

:26:31.:26:33.

that there should be some cuts and that the police will have to manage

:26:34.:26:37.

their resources. One of the points that Tom Tugenhadt said was that

:26:38.:26:41.

even if you put a lease officer on every corner of every street -- a

:26:42.:26:46.

police officer, they had lots in Paris before the attacks, but it

:26:47.:26:50.

will not stop this sort of terrorism if they are soft targets. Well, they

:26:51.:26:56.

have to be lucky once, we have to be lucky all the time. But it is a

:26:57.:26:59.

postcode lottery. In Bristol, they have done good work in local

:27:00.:27:05.

community engagement. One terrorist was grassed up by the local mosque.

:27:06.:27:10.

That is the kind of information that comes from having good

:27:11.:27:13.

relationships. If we do not have the officers to have those relationships

:27:14.:27:17.

with, I worry about the future. You make it sound as though the only

:27:18.:27:21.

person with whom the mosque can have the relationship is the police.

:27:22.:27:25.

Nobody is talking about removing that. There is a series of people

:27:26.:27:34.

with whom we engage every day. I have people coming into my

:27:35.:27:36.

constituency surgery, raising different issues. Raising issues

:27:37.:27:43.

like this is essential across the community. But intelligence has to

:27:44.:27:48.

turn into evidence. Somebody cannot just say, -- somebody has to say, I

:27:49.:27:55.

have seen something, I will raise evidence against that individual. It

:27:56.:27:59.

cannot happen if there are fewer police. I do not accept that.

:28:00.:28:01.

The UK Parliament's all-party group for Kurdistan has been visiting

:28:02.:28:04.

the Peshmerga in Iraq just a few miles from the front line

:28:05.:28:07.

The Labour MP John Woodcock was part of that group of MPs.

:28:08.:28:12.

We will speak to him in a moment, but first let's take a look

:28:13.:28:15.

It's been a real privilege to be taken out here by the Commander

:28:16.:28:21.

They make the point to us that they are getting essential air support

:28:22.:28:28.

from the UK, from the RAF, and training and advice from the UK

:28:29.:28:35.

But they are desperately short of kit.

:28:36.:28:38.

They know that if they fail in this fight and Daesh continue,

:28:39.:28:44.

ultimately, it will be foreign fighters who will

:28:45.:28:46.

be going back to the UK to take what they've learned here, the extremism,

:28:47.:28:50.

military tactics, back to countries such as the UK.

:28:51.:29:00.

It's a huge privilege to be able to see this, but the UK

:29:01.:29:05.

That is the stark message they have asked us to take back to the UK.

:29:06.:29:12.

Remind us who the Kurds are and the areas of land they inhabit and the

:29:13.:29:22.

fronts they are fighting is on? The Iraqi Kurds are in the north of

:29:23.:29:28.

Iraq. They were systematically persecuted in the most vile ways by

:29:29.:29:35.

Saddam Hussein. After the liberation, is based in it, of Iraq

:29:36.:29:41.

from Saddam, there were given a semi-autonomous devolved region

:29:42.:29:47.

within Iraq. Their military force, the Peshmerga, are the troops who

:29:48.:29:54.

are fighting. They are a proficient force and it was a privilege to see

:29:55.:29:57.

what they were doing on the front line. I hope that broadcasting what

:29:58.:30:05.

we saw back to the UK helps dispel the understandable misconception

:30:06.:30:08.

that there is nothing going on in Iraq except for the odd bomb being

:30:09.:30:16.

dropped by the RAF. You could see that just a few kilometres away from

:30:17.:30:22.

the Daesh front line, the Peshmerga rely on the protection in the air

:30:23.:30:27.

cover that the RAF give. They are fighting a difficult fight and they

:30:28.:30:32.

hope for more from the UK and other nations.

:30:33.:30:36.

We're going on to the proposal air strikes if it comes before the

:30:37.:30:43.

Commons in a moment. The Kurds neat more kit. David Cameron said last

:30:44.:30:47.

year Britain would arm the Kurds. Did you see evidence of that? They

:30:48.:30:51.

have some. But the message again and again was they are really lacking.

:30:52.:30:57.

Actually, they say to us in stark terms, we are grateful for the UK's

:30:58.:31:05.

involvement. They kept repeating how grateful they were. That we were

:31:06.:31:10.

part of the coalition to defeat Saddam Hussein. But actually, the UK

:31:11.:31:15.

is giving amongst the least in terms of resources for their fight. I

:31:16.:31:19.

think the reluctance from the Foreign Office, from the UK

:31:20.:31:26.

Government, is that it doesn't end up fuelling destab I willisation in

:31:27.:31:31.

the region. Particularly Turkey. When you look into this closely, you

:31:32.:31:38.

need to be honest, there isn't really a functioning state called

:31:39.:31:43.

Iraq at the moment. That has broken down into a Baghdad Government run

:31:44.:31:49.

by a Shia force which isn't representing the Sunni and the

:31:50.:31:53.

Kurdish areas. There does need to be change. In the near term, I think

:31:54.:31:58.

it's so important these people, they make the case, they're fighting on

:31:59.:32:03.

all our behalf. If they don't win this fight, then foreign fighters

:32:04.:32:06.

can go back into countries like the UK and we need to support them

:32:07.:32:10.

better than we have been doing. What about another vote in the House of

:32:11.:32:13.

Commons on air strikes over Syria? Would you like to see that brought

:32:14.:32:17.

forward now? Iity it's important we do more. I've always said being in

:32:18.:32:25.

Iraq, being part of that operation, but not going over what is a purely

:32:26.:32:32.

theoretical border, is illogical. We said it is legal to do so. Provide

:32:33.:32:38.

logistical support. Where it is important David Cameron comes

:32:39.:32:41.

forward today, hopefully, as soon as possible, is in the sense of how

:32:42.:32:48.

this military involvement fits in with a wider diplomatic engagement

:32:49.:32:52.

where we cannot allow to happen to beat back Daesh but leave the vacuum

:32:53.:32:58.

which we left that Daesh was able to fill in the Sunni regions of Iraq.

:32:59.:33:03.

To be clear, you would back a proposal that David Cameron brought

:33:04.:33:07.

forward to say we need to use British military force, not much of

:33:08.:33:13.

it, but British military force to bomb IS is Syria or do agree with

:33:14.:33:19.

Hilary Benn about having strict pre-conditions before supporting it

:33:20.:33:23.

You would have to see the exact detail. My sense is yes, I would

:33:24.:33:30.

back even that limited increased incursion by the RAF strikes over

:33:31.:33:37.

the border into and ultimate targeting Raqa which is the head of

:33:38.:33:47.

extremists, the HQ. I think many of my colleagues will want to see more

:33:48.:33:52.

in terms of diplomatic effort before they do that. I want to see it as

:33:53.:33:59.

well. But even if it is the limited proposal, there will be several of

:34:00.:34:03.

us whether will be prepared to back that. Are there any circumstances in

:34:04.:34:08.

which the UK can participate without a Commons vote? That is a wider

:34:09.:34:16.

question. That will have consequences right across a number

:34:17.:34:20.

of military involvement. I think for this engagement, clearly, I don't

:34:21.:34:25.

think there is a prospect of that. Whether we would relook after this

:34:26.:34:29.

about the balance that has changed over the last ten years, well, that

:34:30.:34:33.

may be worth doing. Clearly, the Prime Minister is clear that he will

:34:34.:34:37.

not proceed in a substantive way with direct involvement without a

:34:38.:34:41.

vote. That's the reality we are looking at. What do you make of the

:34:42.:34:45.

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn's association with stop of the war

:34:46.:34:50.

coalition? There seems to be unhappiness from some of your

:34:51.:34:55.

colleagues particularly following the blog post where Stop the War

:34:56.:34:59.

Coalition were reaping the whirlwind of return foreign policy. What would

:35:00.:35:03.

you say about Jeremy Corbyn's association with Stop the War

:35:04.:35:06.

Coalition? I've always been troubled by his association. That blog post

:35:07.:35:11.

was striking not from the fact it was coming from left field and

:35:12.:35:14.

unusual from the organisation. That is the message they've given all

:35:15.:35:18.

through. We have to call this for what. Blaming the people of France

:35:19.:35:23.

or the French Government or the UK Government for the killing of French

:35:24.:35:31.

or UK civilians is akin at the time of the Second World War, blaming the

:35:32.:35:35.

Jewish people for their deaths under the Nazis. It is that serious. I

:35:36.:35:38.

really hope Jeremy and others will make clear they will not accept any

:35:39.:35:42.

of that sentiment within the British Labour Party. John Woodcock, thank

:35:43.:35:45.

you. Now, the Home Secretary,

:35:46.:35:46.

Theresa May, has said Britain would take 20,000 Syrian refugees over

:35:47.:35:49.

the next five years, and Our correspondent

:35:50.:35:51.

James Shaw is there. James, can you hear me? Yes, I can.

:35:52.:36:08.

We expect the refugees to arrive at Glasgow airport within the next

:36:09.:36:13.

couple of hours. A plane will touchdown on the apron behind me.

:36:14.:36:18.

The refugees will be kept airside. They won't come through to the

:36:19.:36:21.

terminal. They will be processed in a lounge here. We expect there will

:36:22.:36:27.

be representatives of about five our six Scottish local authorities who

:36:28.:36:30.

will take them to a hotel, brief them and then take them on to their

:36:31.:36:35.

perhaps long-term accommodation. But it's being done in this discreet way

:36:36.:36:42.

because these are deemed to be vulnerable people under this

:36:43.:36:44.

vulnerable persons resettlement scheme. We will not see them in

:36:45.:36:48.

public at this stage. They will be allowed to start their new lives in

:36:49.:36:51.

the UK discreetly and out of the public eye. Yes, difficult, of

:36:52.:36:56.

course, in the wake of what's been going on over the past few days. Are

:36:57.:37:03.

more expected? More Syrian refugees from those camps expected in

:37:04.:37:09.

Glasgow? That's right. We're expecting between 300 and 400 before

:37:10.:37:14.

Christmas. That's a pretty big proportion of the total of 1,000 for

:37:15.:37:18.

the UK before Christmas. Probably over a third will come to Scottish

:37:19.:37:23.

local authorities. I was talking to people in the terminal building a

:37:24.:37:27.

couple of minutes ago, asking them what they thought about the arrival

:37:28.:37:32.

of these refugees. There was a quite a lot of scepticism on the grounds

:37:33.:37:37.

where we hear people complaining about schools and hospitals being

:37:38.:37:41.

overstretched at the moment. There was that argument, but also concerns

:37:42.:37:46.

over what happened in Paris. People worrying who is coming into the

:37:47.:37:50.

country. It is the case these people, these refugees, have been

:37:51.:37:55.

given a double security screening before they arrive in the UK. So

:37:56.:37:59.

clearly the authorities are content that they do not represent any sort

:38:00.:38:03.

of security threat. James Shaw, you that.

:38:04.:38:05.

Now, lying next to the body of one of the men who blew themselves up

:38:06.:38:08.

outside the Stade de France last Friday was a Syrian passport.

:38:09.:38:10.

It belonged to a man who Greek officials have confirmed passed

:38:11.:38:13.

through Greece along with the thousands of migrants.

:38:14.:38:16.

So-called Islamic State had threatened to place jihadis amongst

:38:17.:38:20.

fleeing refugees and some, including Ukip leader Nigel Farage,

:38:21.:38:24.

believe this is exactly what has happened and that this security

:38:25.:38:28.

This dream of the free movement of people,

:38:29.:38:33.

this dream for others of the Schengen area

:38:34.:38:37.

hasn't just meant the free movement of people,

:38:38.:38:40.

it's meant the free movement of Kalashnikov rifles.

:38:41.:38:42.

It's meant the free movement of terrorists.

:38:43.:38:45.

And it's meant the free movement of jihadists.

:38:46.:38:48.

And it's time that democratic groups in Britain and right across Europe

:38:49.:38:53.

stood up and fought and gained in strength and said

:38:54.:38:56.

"An end to this. We want back border controls.

:38:57.:38:59.

Here now is Peter Whittle, the Ukip candidate for London Mayor.

:39:00.:39:08.

Welcome to the Daily Politics. Is Nigel Farage cynically using the

:39:09.:39:16.

Parisse tax to try to forward Ukip's domestic agenda? Absolutely not.

:39:17.:39:21.

There's no question about this. This is a hugely political issue. So,

:39:22.:39:27.

political response is necessary. I find it extraordinary people say

:39:28.:39:31.

that this is being exploitative. Nigel's speech last night, I was

:39:32.:39:36.

there, was hugely nuanced and positive in some of the messages it

:39:37.:39:40.

put out. People want and need to talk about this situation. There

:39:41.:39:45.

were 1,000 people there last night. Everyone wants to talk about one of

:39:46.:39:50.

the most serious issues facing us. What you don't do, is somehow avoid

:39:51.:39:54.

it or deny things are happening. Right One of the quotes, some

:39:55.:39:59.

British Muslims, Nigel Farage said, are conflicted in their loyalties

:40:00.:40:03.

between the UK way of life and what some elements within their faith are

:40:04.:40:06.

telling them. Do you agree with that? I would say there is a large

:40:07.:40:11.

amount of truth in that. I have to point out, Nigel used one example.

:40:12.:40:17.

27%, in other words, he was not talking about all Muslims in

:40:18.:40:19.

Britain, he was talking about a small amount of Muslims who showed

:40:20.:40:24.

after the Charlie ebb doe attacks early this year in Paris, there was

:40:25.:40:29.

a significant support, about 27%, for the motives of those killers.

:40:30.:40:33.

That is very worrying indeed. We have to face up to those things. It

:40:34.:40:39.

is up to us to put forward a much stronger narrative as to why people

:40:40.:40:44.

should have their allegiance first and foremost to this country. What

:40:45.:40:50.

do you say to that? I don't believe British Muslims are kin flected. You

:40:51.:40:54.

don't love your first child any less because you have your second. The

:40:55.:41:00.

vast majority of Muslims feel very British, want their families safe.

:41:01.:41:06.

Don't want anything to do with Isis. It is a cult created by Saddam

:41:07.:41:11.

Hussein's hench men. They are scared of them as we are. We shouldn't

:41:12.:41:20.

confuse migrants with refugees. We are talking -- taking rev fees from

:41:21.:41:27.

Jordan. Properly vetted. Victims of rape, torture, brutality. No-one's

:41:28.:41:31.

arguing about that. That's the right way to do it. Nigel Farage said

:41:32.:41:38.

there would be Jihadis secreted within the fleeing refugees from

:41:39.:41:41.

Syria. That would be a threat. He's not the only one who said it. Elecon

:41:42.:41:47.

ease ministers said it. But at the time, if you said this at the time

:41:48.:41:52.

when this huge migration started, you were pretty much dismissed. But

:41:53.:41:56.

he was right. Was he right? Nigel Farage? There are genuine fears when

:41:57.:42:01.

you see those pictures of the vast numbers of people coming from that

:42:02.:42:05.

war-torn area in the middle east that surely there is a very high

:42:06.:42:10.

risk that it would be an op or tune way to smuggle Jihadis in. I trust

:42:11.:42:14.

our vetting processes. We are the British. Into Europe, continental

:42:15.:42:20.

Europe? Paris is where the attacks happened. Angela Merkel has opened

:42:21.:42:26.

the doors, to some people's minds, Ian her own ministerial Cabinet, it

:42:27.:42:32.

is the wrong thing to do. All the French terrorists were French born

:42:33.:42:37.

and lived in France or Belgium. It is a red herring. There will be

:42:38.:42:42.

people who go under the cloak of whatever process there is to get in

:42:43.:42:48.

to carry out their nefarious acts. That's our job, the British security

:42:49.:42:54.

services and policing job to make sure that doesn't happen. None of

:42:55.:42:59.

the the attackers were British. Associating those terrorists in any

:43:00.:43:03.

way with the three million or so Muslims in Britain will be or could

:43:04.:43:08.

be seen as provacative or unnecessarily stirring up emotion?

:43:09.:43:12.

Absolutely not. I totally reject this. It is not like we haven't been

:43:13.:43:18.

affected by this ourselves. We had Lee Rigby virtually decapitated. We

:43:19.:43:24.

had 7/7. We've had attacks. From home-grown terrorists. Yes. But you

:43:25.:43:30.

can't con Nate in a way the two issues when they are broadly born of

:43:31.:43:36.

the same cause. The trust is to say that it's red herring that just one

:43:37.:43:42.

came from outside France, I find extraordinarily complacent you can

:43:43.:43:47.

say that. Far from complacent. There may be a forged passport. They'll

:43:48.:43:51.

find out where he comes from. Whether he came through the

:43:52.:43:56.

migration route. But we, as security forces, we as Britain's, will have

:43:57.:43:59.

the opportunity to assess whether she should be here and make sure

:44:00.:44:03.

those who should not be are not allowed in. To pick up the the

:44:04.:44:09.

statistic. 27% of British Muslims said they'd some sympathy for the

:44:10.:44:14.

motives behind the Charlie endoe attacks in Paris in January? Is that

:44:15.:44:19.

worrying? Very worrying. I personally believe we should not

:44:20.:44:24.

worry about whether or not people want to take the proverbial out of

:44:25.:44:29.

our faith. Faith is about me and my religion not about me and the rest

:44:30.:44:33.

of the public. I would not welcome anyone saying people should be

:44:34.:44:37.

harmed or hurt because they abused us or criticised us. 27% of British

:44:38.:44:43.

Muslims do? That's a survey. I know from talking to dozens around the

:44:44.:44:46.

country that's not what they believe. They are British. They were

:44:47.:44:51.

Muslim victims of the terrorism in Paris. No-one's denying that. But

:44:52.:44:55.

you should agree we should talk about this. I've not problem talking

:44:56.:45:01.

about it. Should we take more Syrian refugees? My personal belief is

:45:02.:45:08.

these people are fleeing fascist regime which is Isis. Back in the

:45:09.:45:12.

thirties, with he didn't say to the Jews go back to Hitler. We should be

:45:13.:45:18.

doing the same with refugees. A lot were turned back. That compar is son

:45:19.:45:24.

is a completely different situation. While the public here rightly

:45:25.:45:32.

express sympathy with the victims of the terrorist attacks in Paris,

:45:33.:45:34.

it is only natural that thoughts The security services say they have

:45:35.:45:37.

foiled a number of plots on UK soil, and

:45:38.:45:42.

the Government is stressing that it is determined to tackle the threat

:45:43.:45:44.

of more, but is there a weak spot? The policy of deradicalisation

:45:45.:45:47.

called Prevent has come in for criticism that it's alienating

:45:48.:45:49.

as many as it deals with. Giles has been looking

:45:50.:45:52.

into this trickier area His film opens with

:45:53.:45:54.

a police exercise. These are not terrorists,

:45:55.:45:56.

but police. But since the Mumbai attacks, the

:45:57.:46:00.

risk of a terrorist shooting attack has been trained for as part of

:46:01.:46:07.

the UK's counterterrorism strategy. Paris has shown the threats to be

:46:08.:46:11.

a tragically very real one, and we have been told the security

:46:12.:46:15.

services have foiled seven But there is another strand to our

:46:16.:46:17.

preparations, and that is how you tackle someone who has yet to pick

:46:18.:46:24.

up a gun or bomb and is starting Prevent is the Government's push

:46:25.:46:28.

on changing their minds. We've trained 330,000 people

:46:29.:46:34.

to implement the new Prevent duty. So by a process of concentrating our

:46:35.:46:40.

approach, refining what we do and being mindful of those

:46:41.:46:44.

sensitivities, In June this year, 327 people

:46:45.:46:47.

were placed in a deradicalisation in August, just 120, but the total,

:46:48.:46:55.

796, was a larger number True, we have not had

:46:56.:47:06.

a mass casualty attack here for a decade, but that might be a victory

:47:07.:47:21.

more for counterterrorism than deradicalisation programmes, given

:47:22.:47:24.

that, according to police, 700 UK citizens have gone to Syria to fight

:47:25.:47:29.

with jihadists, The problem may be interaction

:47:30.:47:32.

at grassroot levels. There are four key elements of the

:47:33.:47:40.

Contest strategy. The Prevent strategy is

:47:41.:47:42.

the one that isn't successful, because confidence is not there

:47:43.:47:45.

in the community. We need to learn lessons

:47:46.:47:47.

about how we defeated the IRA. It's about talking to individuals

:47:48.:47:49.

that may be difficult for the Government to appreciate

:47:50.:47:51.

that they need to speak to. At the moment,

:47:52.:47:56.

we're not doing that. that the Government feel

:47:57.:47:58.

comfortable with. They're not necessarily the

:47:59.:48:00.

ones that represent the community. And some are uncomfortable with

:48:01.:48:02.

the Government's push that schools, universities

:48:03.:48:05.

and councils should report The more you limit your ability to

:48:06.:48:07.

say that you can have discreet and caring conversations with your

:48:08.:48:13.

students, the more likely it is that you will prevent them, ironically,

:48:14.:48:17.

from being able to come to you and express concerns where they might

:48:18.:48:23.

be open to influence that might But the Government disagrees

:48:24.:48:27.

that it's asking them to spy. If you take these colleges

:48:28.:48:33.

and schools, they have always taken Professor Mohammed Abdel-Haq

:48:34.:48:36.

of the University of Bolton was speaking about this recently to me

:48:37.:48:42.

and saying that duty of care is very much in line with what

:48:43.:48:45.

we now expect people to do. If you see it in those terms,

:48:46.:48:50.

actually, it is very natural. And being frank,

:48:51.:48:54.

there is no doubt that in the UK right now, there are people who do

:48:55.:48:59.

wish us a great deal of harm. Joining us now is the

:49:00.:49:06.

Conservative MP, Rehman Chishti, and Miqdaad Versi,

:49:07.:49:08.

the Assistant Secretary General Rehman Chishti, more than 700 people

:49:09.:49:24.

have left the UK to fight in Iraq and Syria. Prevent, the government

:49:25.:49:28.

strategy to deter people from engaging in terrorism, has therefore

:49:29.:49:33.

failed. Well, you are looking at the number 700 in recent years, but the

:49:34.:49:37.

problem we have had with radicalisation and extremism has

:49:38.:49:40.

gone on for decades. After the war in Afghanistan, Abu Hamza, who

:49:41.:49:45.

fought in that war, was openly allowed to come to this country and

:49:46.:49:49.

preaches hatred. Nothing was done. You had hate preachers in this

:49:50.:49:53.

country. To save this is something that has happened over the last few

:49:54.:49:59.

years is not right. But since 2010? This is a combination of successive

:50:00.:50:03.

governments which have not got to grips with deradicalisation.

:50:04.:50:06.

Including yours. We have a lot more to do, I would be the first to say

:50:07.:50:13.

that. But do I think we need to look at Prevent taking into account the

:50:14.:50:19.

threat posed by Daesh? When Prevent was first set up, Daesh was not

:50:20.:50:24.

there, so the threat posed by Daesh is significant and we need to make

:50:25.:50:29.

sure Prevent deals with that threat. But Labour targeted moderate Islamic

:50:30.:50:34.

groups in a hope that they would provide a way out for those on the

:50:35.:50:38.

margins. The coalition withdrew funding from those groups opposed to

:50:39.:50:42.

fundamental British values. Was that a mistake? We took money away from

:50:43.:50:47.

certain groups where money was not used appropriately. In the last

:50:48.:50:56.

year, we have worked with over 250 mosques around the country, but we

:50:57.:50:59.

have to target the money appropriately by working with those

:51:00.:51:02.

who are committed to British values. Is that a mistake? I think

:51:03.:51:06.

the government should engage with a broad range of British Muslim

:51:07.:51:11.

communities, not just the ones who agree with what it says. That is

:51:12.:51:16.

something that hopefully, everyone would agree with. It makes no sense

:51:17.:51:20.

to try to institute a policy that will impact significantly on one

:51:21.:51:24.

portion of the community. You need to be talking, understand the

:51:25.:51:29.

concerns, and then we can keep ourselves safe. We need something

:51:30.:51:33.

effective, evidence -based and something that the community can buy

:51:34.:51:37.

into. Has the government been talking to the Muslim Council of

:51:38.:51:41.

Britain? The government has not been talking to the Muslim Council of

:51:42.:51:44.

Britain. For us, it is important to have critical friends at the table.

:51:45.:51:48.

There are many who criticise the Muslim Council of Britain. Nazir

:51:49.:51:53.

Afzal has done so in the past as well, but he was invited to our AGM

:51:54.:51:57.

last year. We are happy to talk to people with different views, and the

:51:58.:52:01.

government should do so as well. Shouldn't the government be talking

:52:02.:52:04.

to critical voices if that is what is needed to reach those who might

:52:05.:52:08.

be vulnerable to that sort of ideology? I have engaged with the

:52:09.:52:15.

Muslim community. I have personally had meetings with the Muslim Council

:52:16.:52:18.

of Britain and their Secretary General. I want to engage with

:52:19.:52:23.

everyone. So when I put the recommendation forward to

:52:24.:52:28.

government, we have listened to everyone. We are in this together.

:52:29.:52:32.

Everyone has a role to play in fighting this evil ideology. And

:52:33.:52:37.

these extremists will not stop at anything to impose their will. The

:52:38.:52:40.

more we are united with all organisations, the better. That is

:52:41.:52:48.

right. I was invited to speak at your AGM. You did not have the issue

:52:49.:52:52.

of people flying off to Syria and Iraq on your agenda. I said, I will

:52:53.:52:56.

only speak if you allow me to speak about that and thankfully, you did.

:52:57.:53:00.

So it was about me opening the door which you were not prepared to talk

:53:01.:53:05.

about, but I do pay tribute to you. You have personally spoken about

:53:06.:53:09.

this subject. But my view is like that which Rehman Chishti is saying.

:53:10.:53:12.

We have failed in many aspects around engagement. We have not

:53:13.:53:15.

caught up with the internet age. Prevent was pre-had macro. -- it was

:53:16.:53:24.

pre-Daesh. At the moment, we have a programme where we do not have

:53:25.:53:27.

one-on-one mentoring. We do not have enough mentors. Why did you not have

:53:28.:53:34.

that at the top of your agenda? With 700 people who have gone to Syria

:53:35.:53:39.

and Iraq and been radicalised? It was not part of our AGM, but we are

:53:40.:53:44.

doing work on it now. On Thursday, before the horrific attacks in

:53:45.:53:47.

Paris, we had a national meeting where we started a listening

:53:48.:53:52.

exercise across the country to understand what is going on and to

:53:53.:53:56.

see what Muslim communities in the grassroots are saying and to

:53:57.:53:59.

corroborate what we have said in the past to find ideas on how to tackle

:54:00.:54:03.

the issues we face. We are on the front line. There is no silver

:54:04.:54:10.

bullet. There is no clear answer. The answer is the grassroots, not

:54:11.:54:15.

the very large organisations. Do you see the Muslim Council of Britain as

:54:16.:54:20.

grassroots? My point is that I have worked with lots of women's groups,

:54:21.:54:24.

for example. They are the answer. They don't have the time to put in a

:54:25.:54:27.

business case for government funding. We have to make it easier

:54:28.:54:31.

for them to do their job. You are right, we have to broaden the

:54:32.:54:37.

engagement. We have set up a community engagement panel to make

:54:38.:54:44.

sure all views are taken on board. There are those who are dangerous,

:54:45.:54:47.

those who are disturbed and those who are disillusioned. Therefore,

:54:48.:54:51.

the government has irresponsible at it to ensure that it deals with

:54:52.:54:56.

those who are dangerous. Those who are disillusioned and disturbed get

:54:57.:55:00.

sucked into this poisonous ideology, and therefore, mum and dad have a

:55:01.:55:05.

responsibility to watch what their children are doing an the internet.

:55:06.:55:11.

It is important to take down internet material, but it is also

:55:12.:55:14.

important to put up another narrative which tackles that. Are

:55:15.:55:22.

the Muslim community doing enough to stop radicalisation in their own

:55:23.:55:25.

homes? There is a lot more that needs to be done from within the

:55:26.:55:29.

Muslim community and outside it. There is a long journey ahead of

:55:30.:55:35.

us. We have to ask how to best Brit. Some of the ideas coming from the

:55:36.:55:39.

government or from the grassroots are being done at grassroots level.

:55:40.:55:44.

They are being done at local mosques. We need some of these ideas

:55:45.:55:50.

to go to the government. The community engagement the government

:55:51.:55:54.

has set up does not have a broad section of the community

:55:55.:55:59.

represented. Thank you for joining us. Rehman Chishti, you will stay

:56:00.:56:03.

with us a bit longer. A few minutes ago, the Prime Minister made a

:56:04.:56:06.

statement to the House of Commons on the Paris attacks and the G20 summit

:56:07.:56:10.

from which he has just returned. Let's listen to what he had to say.

:56:11.:56:15.

We face a direct and growing threat to our country, and we need to deal

:56:16.:56:19.

with it not just in Iraq, but in Syria as well. I have always said

:56:20.:56:23.

there is a strong case for doing so. Our allies are asking us to do

:56:24.:56:28.

this, and the case for doing so has only grown stronger after the Paris

:56:29.:56:32.

attacks. We cannot expect and should not expect others to carry the

:56:33.:56:35.

burdens and the risks of protecting our country. I recognise that there

:56:36.:56:44.

are concerns in this House. What difference would action by the UK

:56:45.:56:48.

make? Could it make the situation worse? How does the recent Russian

:56:49.:56:53.

action affect the situation? How, above all, would a decision by

:56:54.:56:56.

Britain to join strikes against Isil in Syria fit into a comprehensive

:56:57.:57:01.

strategy for dealing with Isil and a diplomatic strategy to bring the war

:57:02.:57:05.

in Syria to an end to? I understand these concerns, and I know they must

:57:06.:57:10.

be answered. I believe they can be and third. Many were expressed in

:57:11.:57:14.

the recent report of the foreign affairs select committee. My

:57:15.:57:17.

conviction is that we need to act against Isil in Syria. There is a

:57:18.:57:22.

compelling case for doing so. It is for the government to make that case

:57:23.:57:26.

to this House and the country. I can therefore announced that of first

:57:27.:57:30.

important step to do so, I will respond personally to the report of

:57:31.:57:32.

the foreign affairs select committee. I will set out our of

:57:33.:57:37.

strategy for dealing with Isil, our vision for a more stable and

:57:38.:57:41.

peaceful Middle East. In my view, this strategy should include taking

:57:42.:57:46.

the action in Syria I have spoken about. I hope that in setting out

:57:47.:57:50.

the arguments in this way, I can help build support across this House

:57:51.:57:54.

for the action that I believe is necessary. That is what I will be

:57:55.:57:58.

putting in place over the coming days, and I hope colleagues from

:57:59.:58:01.

across the House will engage with that and make clear their views so

:58:02.:58:07.

we can have a strong vote in this House of Commons and do the right

:58:08.:58:12.

thing for our country. That was the Prime Minister in the House of

:58:13.:58:15.

Commons a few moments ago. He is going to take the unusual step of

:58:16.:58:18.

responding personally to the foreign affairs select committee report

:58:19.:58:21.

calling for a plan for a wider peace in Syria, and he will set out a road

:58:22.:58:27.

map that he believes will have more action to take against Isil. Do you

:58:28.:58:30.

support air strikes against Isis in Syria? I agree that we have to do

:58:31.:58:35.

everything we can to defeat this evil organisation. But before we go

:58:36.:58:40.

to military action, let's get the government to get the terminology

:58:41.:58:43.

right and defeat the propaganda. At the moment, so-called Isil want to

:58:44.:58:48.

be called an Islamic State. We have just talked about why over 600

:58:49.:58:52.

British nationals have been sucked into fighting for this even

:58:53.:58:55.

organisation. The government has to get the strategy right to defeat

:58:56.:58:59.

their organisation right and get the terminology right. And then you will

:59:00.:59:07.

support air strikes? This time, I want to see the strategy put forward

:59:08.:59:10.

before I decide whether to support them.

:59:11.:59:11.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:59:12.:59:16.

I'll be back at 11.30 tomorrow with Andrew for live coverage of

:59:17.:59:19.

He brought ground-breaking, subversive shows

:59:20.:59:31.

He was the most brilliant young producer.

:59:32.:59:36.

He was the only one that could really keep up with me.

:59:37.:59:38.

'While you're alive, you have to live.'

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