Browse content similar to 23/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
British warplanes could be joining the French | :00:40. | :00:40. | |
But will British bombs make a significant difference | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
?12 billion extra for military hardware and two | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
After cuts to the MOD budget five years ago, has | :00:51. | :00:55. | |
the government decided it now needs to spend more to keep us safe? | :00:56. | :01:02. | |
Schools and the metro are closed in the third day of lockdown | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
in Brussels with one of the Paris suspects still on the run. | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
It's a familiar backdrop to many state occasions, | :01:08. | :01:14. | |
but now Admiralty Arch has been sold to foreign investors as a hotel. | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
Should we be selling off Britain's architectural crown jewels to | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole | :01:20. | :01:32. | |
of the programme today the Conservative MP, Johnny Mercer | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
First this afternoon, the prospect of British warplanes | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
bombing targets is Syria controlled by so-called Islamic State | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
This morning David Cameron visited Paris, laying a flower | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
and paying his respects, along with French President, | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Francois Hollande, at the Bataclan theatre where 89 people died at the | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
Later he appeared at a joint press conference at the | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
Elysee Palace, where he made the case for British warplanes joining | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
We must also do more to defeat Isil in their heartlands, | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
The UK is already playing its part as a member | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
of the counter-Isil coalition, striking targets in Iraq, providing | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
intelligence over the skies of Syria, and helping out allies | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
On Friday, the United Nations unanimously backed action | :02:25. | :02:30. | |
Later this week, I will set out in Parliament our comprehensive | :02:31. | :02:37. | |
I firmly support the action President Hollande has | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
taken to strike Isil in Syria, and it is my firm conviction that | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
Of course, that will be a decision for Parliament to make. | :02:46. | :02:52. | |
Today, I have offered President Hollande the use of | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
RAF Akrotori for French aircraft engaged in counter-Isil operations. | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
It is clear the world is coming together to | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
That was clear on Friday night, when, almost one week after the | :03:02. | :03:09. | |
brutal terrorists murdered people here in Paris, and sought to divide | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
We showed our firm resolve and, together, | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
David, and -- David Cameron at that press conference with Francois | :03:18. | :03:42. | |
Hollande. The Prime Minister and Chancellor at the weekend said they | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
would not bring forward a proposal for air strikes to the House of | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
Commons unless they were sure they could win it. Are we presuming they | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
have the numbers now? It looks very much as though that is the case. | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
Clearly the mood in the house has shifted quite dramatically. We had | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
that boat and the United Nations in New York on Friday night, calling on | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
all the countries that could use all possible means to confront and | :04:07. | :04:12. | |
defeat IS -- vote. That will be an important factor as MPs weigh up the | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
decision whether or not to support military strikes into Syria. You | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
have had in the whole mood after Paris attacks, as we saw David | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
Cameron standing alongside Francois Hollande. He knows how important the | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
symbolism of that will be and how MPs will want to do all they can to | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
try to support France. You also have increasing indications from the | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
Labour Party that they may have to accept a free vote amongst Labour | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
MPs on whether or not to support military strikes into Syria. We know | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has a very strong misgivings about it but it appears | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
that the Shadow Cabinet, so many of them, would be prepared to support | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
strikes that it might be that the leadership simply accepts it would | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
be better to give them a free vote rather than try to impose discipline | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
when that simply might not work, and clearly if there was to be a free | :05:08. | :05:11. | |
vote in the Labour Party, that would make it easier for Labour MPs to | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
support David Cameron. But it will depend on the case that David | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
Cameron sets out later this week. He is going to make the unusual step of | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
actually answering the report by one of the select committees. So is he, | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
in the response, going to set out more than just a case for military | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
air strikes? I think what he will try to do is answer all of the | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
points that the foreign affairs select committee made. What they | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
said is that air strikes on their own would not be sufficient. But it | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
has to be part of a wider, coherent strategy. What David Cameron will do | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
will be to say, yes, the committee asked for assurances about wider | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
international support. You have got the vote in the United Nations. The | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
committee asked for greater efforts to try and find a diplomatic | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
solution to resolve the difficulties and civil war that is raging inside | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
Syria. You now have that process underway, starting with the talks in | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
Vienna. You have the Russians involved and engaged. And at least | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
the start of a process that could looked away wider political | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
solution. He will point to the efforts that the UK is making, along | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
with other countries, to provide help in the camps and so on. And he | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
will say, that is part of the wider strategy, Britain should be | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
involved, along with the United States, the French and many others | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
in extending those strikes into Syria, because that is where Islamic | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
State has its base. Where David Cameron will struggle, and where | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
some members of the foreign affairs select committee are still waiting | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
to hear greater reassurance is on the question if there are air | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
strikes, who is going to follow up with boots on the ground? It is not | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
clear who would carry out that role. Thank you very much. | :07:01. | :07:02. | |
And we're joined now by the SNP's Patrick Grady. | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
What material difference would British warplanes making of bombing | :07:07. | :07:17. | |
IS and Syria? The Prime Minister has specific weapons that other forces | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
don't have. We have been asked to provide the capability because it | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
provides a way that coalition don't have of targeting people. We are | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
being asked to do it in Syria, and that is why we should get on with it | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
and get it done. How many planes are we talking about? We are looking at | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
between four and eight Tornadoes, but it's not about numbers, it is | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
the effect on the ground and what we are delivering to speed up the | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
conflict and making sure we can have time and space for a political | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
settlement. But if it is not about the numbers, with the Americans, | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
French and Russians and others bombing in Syria, and you say it has | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
special capability, but would it change the course of the battle we | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
are engaged in? Of course it would. If you can accelerate the process of | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
targeting and accelerate the process is on the ground, by extension, you | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
will increase the chances of a peaceful political situation. That | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
will give them the time and space to operate. If you give yourself a | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
number of extra weapons and capabilities, of course it means you | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
can achieve what you are trying to do more quickly. Johnny Mercer, you | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
have some here. You say it will make a material difference? There are a | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
large number of countries already bombing so we're waiting to more | :08:36. | :08:37. | |
detailed case about how that will have an impact. You just heard that, | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
so would you be open to listening to that sort of military case? We said | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
we would listen to the case for action but we need a full case for | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
the range of action necessary, and that also includes building the | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
peace. The UK Government spent 13 times as much money bombing Libya as | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
it did with the humanitarian reconstruction effort in the | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
country. Look at the legacy that has left. We want to see a very detailed | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
case from the Prime Minister when he makes his statement. But you are | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
open to it and the idea, following the UN resolution on Friday? We said | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
we needed to hear the full detail from the Prime Minister. We have | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
already taken a cautious approach to military intervention, especially in | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
a situation when there are so many different actors. The UK is | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
currently chairing the Security Council and it should be trying to | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
build peace and a diplomatic solution before it becomes engaged | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
in conflict. Let's look at what happens after the air strikes. We | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
have heard from various military experts and commanders that air | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
strikes will only achieve so much. It will contain IS to an extent, but | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
not defeat them. Do you accept that in order to defeat IS in the way the | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
Prime Minister is talking about, ground troops are needed? Some sort | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
of ground troops are needed. Do we need US and UK ground troops? Of | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
course not. But there has to be a ground war? It has to be part of a | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
wider strategy. It is part of the aid we have done, and training the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
indigenous forces, but you are right. Air strikes need to be | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
alongside a coercive and full-blown strategy to contain so-called | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
Islamic State. At the moment we don't have that, so if we have the | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
air strikes, what is the point? They have been going on for many months | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
and IS is still able to hit and hit hard. There is no prospect of ground | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
troops or any sort of ground troop force being put together by other | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
countries in the region, and unless there is, what is the point of | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
continuing? Forgive me, but there is a ground force. The Kurds are there. | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
But they are only interested in certain parts of the territory. We | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
have to work hard to build a broader coalition, and if we can do that by | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
saying we will provide air support, they may come forward. Yes, but | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
again, we could add the few planes to the air force and the Kurds are | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
only interested in territory they would like. There is no widespread | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
coalition of ground forces that will ultimately defeat IS on the ground. | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
You are right, there isn't on the ground and at the moment. That is | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
what we are trying to build. If we provide the capability, we will get | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
people coming forward. Billy -- there are the Kurds and other groups | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
who want to see a peaceful Syria. They want to see a peaceful society | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
as before. If you give them the tools to do it, that's all we're | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
trying to do. The idea that we can go in and take ground forces and do | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
the whole thing, it doesn't work like that any more. It will be an | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
indigenous solution, and if we can help with very specific | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
capabilities, we should. We talked about the UN resolution. There is | :11:41. | :11:44. | |
one, and the SNP say they want UN support for air strikes and you have | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
got that. We expect the prime ministers to set out clearly a | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
comprehensive plan, not just about the air strikes but some of the | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
stuff that Johnny Mercer has been talking about. Surely air strikes is | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
now at the first stage in order to contain IS before some sort of | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
ground Force goes in? What has come from the UN is not a chapter seven | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
declaration, it's a broader mandate for countries to take action to | :12:11. | :12:14. | |
defeat Isil. In 2013, the government wanted us to bomb Syria to stop | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
President Assad, and now it seems they want to do it to support | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
President Assad. A lot of contradictions. In your mind, the UN | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
resolution does not invoke military action? We have to see what kind of | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
military action will be made. That is not the question I am asking. For | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
the SNP, does the UN resolution passed on Friday which says to take | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
all necessary measures on the territory to suppress terrorist | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
acts, does that not in your mind... It depends on the nature of action | :12:50. | :12:55. | |
proposed, whether it is the UN coalition which would require | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
support under Commission number seven. But what is being proposed by | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
the Prime Minister, we are yet to see the detail and we are not in a | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
position to make a final decision. -- we are not yet. In your mind, | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
does it invoke military action? Does it seem enough for you, Wes | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
Streeting, to see a green light for British air strikes? I think it was | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
abroad and unexpected mandate. Patrick is right that if there is a | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
UN force, it needs further resolution. I don't think our forces | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
or anyone else needs further sanction from the UN. I was | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
personally surprised that we got that degree of unanimity from the | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
UN, and now it is how it is implemented rather than whether it | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
gives consent. Does it change the Labour position on air strikes? Not | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
yet because we're waiting to see what the Prime Minister says on | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
Thursday. From my point of view, I've had a sceptical view about | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
whether air strikes would be desirable or effective. It certainly | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
helped me along the way. What I want to see from the Prime Minister on | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
Thursday, and Johnny made the military case, and the capability | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
that Brimstone can offer other countries in the coalition. You | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
think it will change the military outcome? Britain has a unique | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
capability, and that is there, but I need to see if there is a diplomatic | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
strategy that brings residents are sad to the table and a plan for a | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
post Assad Syria. Is the humanitarian response there? And how | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
can we learn the lessons from recent interventions which haven't gone so | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
well? If he has a comp defensive strategy, I'm open to supporting the | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
Prime Minister. So you would be prepared if you are convinced, and | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
it sounds like you could be, and you would vote against your party if the | :14:43. | :14:45. | |
line from the Labour leadership is to not to vote for air strikes? I'm | :14:46. | :14:53. | |
not sure we are there yet, but I put this above other issues, and I think | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
about what is in the best interests of my constituency and the national | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
interest and the people of Syria. If I believe it is right to support air | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
strikes and the Labour whip says something else, reluctantly I will | :15:05. | :15:05. | |
vote with my conscience. Has Michael Fallon provided you into | :15:06. | :15:19. | |
the MOD to persuade you? Recently, there has been another | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
briefing offered to opposition MPs. This is not a persuasion exercise | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
but educating us into the complexity of Syria. We're not famous for | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
humility as politicians. But it is so context even people | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
with extensive military, diplomatic expertise will struggle to | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
understand all the dimensions. Particularly for myself, these | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
information briefings are welcome. It comes back to the logic of | :15:49. | :15:55. | |
bombing in Iraq, IS, but somehow not bombing them in Syria where they do | :15:56. | :16:01. | |
not respect borders, why should we? There is a question of mandates. The | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
coalition has asked... Who would invite us to bomb in Syria? | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
That is precisely the question which is why the legal case has to be | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
strong. President Assad will not invite us, | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
neither IS, the question does not arise, there is a legitimate | :16:22. | :16:24. | |
Government there. This is the heart of the current -- | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
the question. The situation is complex on the ground. Is British | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
military action going to add anything, or should we continue to | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
use our diplomatic strength to work for a broader, more peaceful | :16:42. | :16:43. | |
solution. If there is to be military action, | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
there has to be a long-term because deduction plan. | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
Will the UK have to work with President Assad and the Russians? | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
They were very people to be bombed when the proposal was put two years | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
ago. To stay safe at home, we need to do | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
everything, with our brilliant security services, but an element is | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
foreign policy intervention and keeping that problem as far away as | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
we can. We need to move on from Iraq. | :17:16. | :17:23. | |
People might argue in France it was because of the French bombing IS in | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
Syria that they became a target. People can argue that but a | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
fundamental aspect is we need to stay safe at home and part of that | :17:32. | :17:33. | |
is surgical intervention abroad. Later today, we'll hear from the PM | :17:34. | :17:44. | |
about how the government plans to spend ?178 billion on the UK's | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
defence over the next decade. There will also be more details | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
about a new rapid response force With the threat from IS and a newly | :17:51. | :18:10. | |
confident Russia, the review will promise new cash with an extra ?12 | :18:11. | :18:16. | |
billion for equipment. There will be nine new patrol aircraft after the | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
last Spending Review reduced our capability in this area. There will | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
be two 5000 strong Stryker brigades for deployment in emergencies | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
similar to those used by the French after the attacks in Paris. There | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
will be more money for counter-terrorism and cyber | :18:36. | :18:37. | |
security. In his July budget, the Chancellor | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
said the Government would the belated target of spending 2% of GDP | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
on defence every year up to 2020. Today, Michael Fallon summarised | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
what the Government has committed to. | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
The Defence Budget is going to rise every year of this Parliament, | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
and we are going to spend more on giving the Armed Forces | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
More ships, more planes, better equipment for the special | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
forces, making sure we have more troops at readiness, ready to go. | :19:07. | :19:15. | |
And we're joined now by former head of the Army and now | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
Do you think the Armed Forces will be satisfied with the settlement? | :19:19. | :19:30. | |
Compared to the slash and burn, this has a lot of things to commend it. | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
On the back of a commitment of 2% of GDP being spent. | :19:38. | :19:40. | |
We need to look at the small print. The headlines look encouraging. | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
How wrong that the Government get it in 2010? | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
They need credit for the fact it remains controversial but it isn't, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
defence of the incoming Galician Government inherited a black hole | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
from Labour. Over ambitious plans built up over seven years. That | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
amounted to saving 10% of the defence budget over ten years. The | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
Chancellor, in the age of austerity, said in 2010, it had to do with 18% | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
less spending power. Ugly things had to be done. Cancelling the maritime | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
patrol aircraft. That really was shooting yourself in | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
the foot. Now they are building new maritime aircraft? Yes and no. | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
The world look different in 2010. What a waste of money. | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
I am not sure, that programme had a lot of difficulty. | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
The new outcome might be better. Looking at things announced today, | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
on the back of the army having reduced by 20,000 men, we are | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
talking about two Stryker brigades, this is encouraging. These are not | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
new ships. They are from the existing forces. | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
We have gone full circle. In the middle of the previous | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
decade, we would have fast flexible forces. Then there was extended | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
campaigning in Afghanistan. That period seems to be over and we are | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
going back to making our forces more agile. | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
The strike brigades, like the Americans, we could have had these | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
ten years ago. Johnny Mercer, slash and burn, it | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
was a mistake in 2010 to make all those cuts, and now the Government | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
is plugging those holes left. That is an oversimplification. I am | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
quitting Richard Dannett. Saying they make these cuts then | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
putting them straight back in. Not at all. The threat is ever evolving. | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
They are thinking, how are we best positioned going forward as a nation | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
to combat these threats which changing. | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
What has come out today has been encouraging. | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
Hard decisions had to be made in 2010, it is easy to forget, a ?35 | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
billion black hole in defence spending, we had to do something. | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
We have finished in Afghanistan. We are looking to the future to think | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
how can we best go up against this complex and clear threat as we saw | :22:22. | :22:24. | |
in Paris. Let us look at the announcement, | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
nine new maritime patrol planes, after the governments scrapped our | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
capacity into a tent at a cost of ?3.4 billion to the taxpayer. It | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
went before a select committee. How do explain that when we are spending | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
billions rebuilding something similar you dismantled. | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
That is for the MoD to explain. There were serious problems with | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
that Nimrod programme. We had that capability gap. | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
We have these aircraft coming online. They provide a great | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
capability. We need to plug that hole in our defence. | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
Personnel, there has been an announcement about a lot more money | :23:08. | :23:13. | |
for military hardware. What about the people who will use that | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
military hardware? Those numbers have been run right down, you agree? | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
I agree. It is not about how many people but | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
capability on the ground. As we increase technological capability, | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
you need fewer numbers, an inevitable part. | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
Is that right, fewer numbers? Some military people today are saying, | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
without the well-trained force, without a long-standing force to | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
deal with using this military hardware, there is a mismatch. | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
You need the people. One thing people are talking about now is the | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
desire to increase the size of our special forces. We will struggle. An | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
army reduced by 20,000, we recruit special forces from the trained | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
strength of the Army, Royal Marines and air force. With a smaller pool, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
you will struggle. Quantum is actually important. What do you say? | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
A fair point. The key is to retain the skilled | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
troops who can operate, it is not about racking up 120,000, but | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
retaining those skilled people and having that capability to go | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
after... How do you read tame them? -- retain. If the size has been | :24:35. | :24:41. | |
reduced since 2010, it is an awful lot you need to find and train. | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
The key to retaining people is looking after them, giving them | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
enough money, giving the equipment, increasing their quality of life | :24:51. | :24:54. | |
across the board. You need that money within defence to do so. | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
Are they being looked after properly? Reports say personnel are | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
facing cuts to their benefits. That is not looking after personnel. | :25:04. | :25:10. | |
Don't let's comment on reports. There is a new programme to be | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
announced possibly today come later, about how the Armed Forces | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
will be remunerated and their terms and conditions. It is right they are | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
reviewed and brought up to date with a more modern approach. | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
I am relatively comfortable the new model as unfolded will look after | :25:30. | :25:31. | |
people. Your main point is right. Without | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
the people who feel they are well looked after and well led and well | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
focused on, they will vote with their feet. If they are well looked | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
after, but I think they will be, then we will keep good people. | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
Do you support this Defence Review? One of the lessons from the Defence | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
Review, going back to the last one, we need more long-term thinking from | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
the Government. I do think the Nimrod decision in 2011 was a | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
mistake, criticised by senior personnel at the time. | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
We can -- we are in a position without adequate Barone capability. | :26:11. | :26:19. | |
As we heard the news today about off the coast of Scotland and Russian | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
submarines. It will take another ten years for | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
the new going to come on stream and in that time we do not have the | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
capability we need. There are gaps. Of course the Government across the | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
whole board of public spending in 2010 had challenges after the | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
banking crisis, every department has defined savings and we will see that | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
on Wednesday. There has been too much short-term thinking and the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
Chancellor may make the same estate again with the constraints in terms | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
of the fiscal envelope, making appealing short-term decisions which | :26:57. | :26:59. | |
costs the taxpayer more in the long term. | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
Do you support these cuts to the police budget? | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
When the Government looks at a security review and what it is try | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
to do within the UK to keep a safe, clearly there will be some taken | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
away and some given more. Some coming... Should the police be | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
cut by 20%? That is a general decision by the | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
people who run the country. Do we need police numbers on the | :27:26. | :27:31. | |
street? We need as much as we can afford to keep us safe as much | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
should we be spending... If you can't afford the police, you | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
can't afford the GCHQ capabilities that we need to put money in to keep | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
us safe. Should those budgets be cut on | :27:45. | :27:48. | |
police spending? I am not going to answer because I don't have full | :27:49. | :27:51. | |
oversight. Would you be happier with fewer | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
police? We would far rather have more police but you have to do what | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
you can afford otherwise you are not prepared for the threat. | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
Richard, is it your view the UK should be bombing in Syria? | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
The short answer is yes, but only, the capability that our aircraft | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
bring is useful and sends an important message to Islamic State, | :28:15. | :28:23. | |
Mr Putin, our allies, we are standing with them. It is important. | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
Bombing is only a precursor to sorting this issue on the ground | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
which has to be grappled with. I hope your earlier discussion, we | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
really have two grip this issue of ground forces. | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
But not ours? Not until we have done everything else we can do. Who would | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
they come from? We have to use the Iraqi army, we | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
have to get our heads around the Syrian regime, President Assad, his | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
forces, in the same way the Russians have two. The Jordanians, other | :28:56. | :29:02. | |
countries in the region. We have seen our TV screens filled with | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
streams of refugees coming in, including a lot of fit young men. | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
They have come from that region, do they not want to go back? In which | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
case we should be holding them in refugee camps, putting them into | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
units, reinforcing local forces, so they can fight for their own peace | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
and freedom. That is an important thing to think about. | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
Now, how would the Labour Party as a whole vote on any proposal to extend | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
There are clearly big splits in the party. | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
Here's the Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
Cameron is going to come to the House of Commons with his plan, | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
and there is a bit of confusion over how Labour MPs are | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
Like you, your leader was in favour of a free vote, matters | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
of peace and war and conscience, but he now wants a whip to vote. | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
What will happen is we will consider this in Shadow Cabinet and then go | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
Most of those MPs will be consulting their local constituency parties. | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
Then, they will come to a considered view. | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
My view has always been I think Parliament should act as Parliament | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
and not on a party political basis, and we should arrive | :30:12. | :30:14. | |
at a view which is in the best interests of the country. | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
And we're joined now from Glasgow by the Labour activist Stephen Low. | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
He was behind the victorious motion at the Scottish Labour conference | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
last month calling for Trident to be scrapped. | :30:26. | :30:27. | |
Wes Streeting, first of all, we heard a John McDonnell say Syria | :30:28. | :30:38. | |
could be a free vote for the Labour Party. Is it really a serious option | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
to have the Labour Party having a free vote on a massive matter of War | :30:44. | :30:51. | |
and peace? I think we have to do. We heard the earlier argument from | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
Jeremy that there was a clear Labour position one way or another. And | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
ordinarily, that is true, but when Jeremy was elected leader of the | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
Labour Party, his views are so different to wear the Labour Party | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
has traditionally been since 1945 on a whole range of issues, but on | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
this, my big fear on the free vote on this issue is that I don't know | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
what Jeremy's conclusion will be. We know broadly what his instincts are | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
on war, but if the Labour whip was to vote against military action in | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
Syria, the question becomes not what is in the best interests of Syria | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
and national security, but are the Labour MPs going to undermine Jeremy | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
Corbyn? Or will they give David Cameron a kicking? I think this | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
issue is far more important than test of loyalty is far more | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
important than tests of loyalties Syria as well, but it has to be | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
about the best interests of this country and the people of Syria. | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
We've seen recently that there is a debate in the Labour Party on a | :31:59. | :32:01. | |
broad range of issues. But is it credible that the Labour Party | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
cannot come to a collective view and cannot show leadership, because the | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
leadership under Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell feels undermined by | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
many of your parliamentary colleagues, despite having a huge | :32:16. | :32:22. | |
mandate, that they cannot rely on the support of their own MPs? Your | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
question reinforces the point I am making. If this issue becomes about | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
whether we are loyal to Jeremy Corbyn or accepting the mandate, we | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
are filing Parliament. Isn't that what leadership is about? -- we are | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
failing Parliament. What about Parliamentary MPs who will not back | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
there leader on this, if as we suspect, the Jeremy Corbyn will not | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
back the proposal to bomb Syria? This is not a question of backing | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and it is about Labour Party policy. The Labour Party voted | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
a few weeks ago to lay down a whole set of structures before air strikes | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
on Syria would be accepted. It looks very unlikely that anything David | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
Cameron is likely to come up with in the next week will do that, and I | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
expect Labour MPs to back Labour Party policy. Jeremy Corbyn is, in | :33:16. | :33:20. | |
that respect, not a factor. The conference made a decision. I think | :33:21. | :33:26. | |
we should back that decision. What do you say, Wes Streeting? With | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
respect to Stephen, we need to get real about whether Labour Party sits | :33:32. | :33:33. | |
in relation to policies past conferences. Frankly, we don't know | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
what the Prime Minister will say on Thursday and Stephen doesn't either. | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
Things in Syria are changing so fast that a policy resolution passed at | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
the Labour Party conference, I'm afraid, is not good enough for me. | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
Stephen will want to talk about Trident, I am sure. The Labour Party | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
conference is in favour, so does he expect Jeremy Corbyn to follow that? | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
Did he agree with Jeremy Corbyn breaking the whip 500 times as a | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
backbencher? The sort of technocratic debate about which | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
conference passed what, these are fascinating questions but they don't | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
get to the heart of the real issue. The Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
have to get real says Wes Streeting. What about democracy and | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
accountability? Wes Streeting should be accountable to the Labour Party | :34:25. | :34:28. | |
and Labour Party members. That is not a big ask. Particularly when | :34:29. | :34:36. | |
they have come up with a very considered position. And this is | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
Hilary Benn's position as well, this list are preconditions. You not | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
supporting Hilary Benn over the conditions that need to be satisfied | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
in his mind before Labour can support air strikes? When we first | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
spoke about Syria I laid out a series of issues that were important | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
to me that chime identically with what Hilary Benn has said and we | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
have to see what the view of the front bench is. That is once David | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
Cameron sets out a position and the Shadow Cabinet, but Stephen is | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
talking about Labour Party policy. And the policy on Trident, and I | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
think there are arguments both sides, whether the money could be | :35:15. | :35:16. | |
better spent on conventional forces, but the conference is in | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
favour on Trident but he won't be lecturing Jeremy Corbyn. And in | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
terms of accountability, of course I am accountable to my local Labour | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
Party, but fundamentally the people I am accountable to it are the | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
people of Ilford North. They are the people that factor in my decision | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
making. Then Stephen Lowe, let's come to the issue of Trident. | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
Official Labour Party policy is to renew Trident. Jeremy Corbyn, John | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
McDonnell and others should back the current Labour Party policy. That | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
policy is under review. But the current policy is to renew Trident. | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
If you look at what was voted through at the UK conference, that | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
was a year one document of a three-year policy development | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
process. The second thing is, when Labour Party members had a chance to | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
vote on the specific issue of Trident, as opposed to four lines in | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
the 32 page document, that was at the Scottish party conference a few | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
weeks ago. But it is not a devolved issue. It's not a devolved issue, | :36:21. | :36:25. | |
but the Scottish Labour Party... In a way, it doesn't count. No, that | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
was the Scottish Labour Party view that would be fed into the UK policy | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
process, and that is the mandate from the National policy Forum will | :36:35. | :36:38. | |
undertake to progress. Incidentally, if that is the vote that the | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
Scottish Labour Party conference made it is likely to be the vote at | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
other conferences. Isn't that the point, it is an indication, a strong | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
indication, that that view and that Jeremy Corbyn on Trident better | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
reflects the Labour Party and Labour Party membership than those who do | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
want to renew it? At Labour Party conference, members, delegates, | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
unions, they all have the opportunity of debating Trident in | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
detail and a motion that was opposed to Trident, and despite it being a | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
big issue in the media, they chose not to. I think that is an | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
indication. Look where Stephen's revolutionary socialism would | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
leaders. He is talking about a three-year policy-making prose -- | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
process. We are voting on it before Christmas. This isn't a realistic | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
way for MPs to vote on things or the basis of a credible government. The | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
Trident will happen when it decides it happens, but I expect Labour MPs | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
to consult fully with their party members about where we go from here. | :37:41. | :37:44. | |
I think that the vote at Scottish party conference, which was | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
overwhelming, 70% across sections of the party, shows where the Labour | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
Party's feeling is going. I would expect to Labour Party members and | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
MPs to fully participate in the Trident review the party has set up | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
and take that as a starting point. How are you going to vote in the | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
Trident debate tomorrow, Wes Streeting? Tomorrow is an opposition | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
Day motion. I actually want to hear the arguments for and against. There | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
are interesting argument saying that the money would be better spent on | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
conventional forces. The Gateway vote is where I will cast my vote. | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
So you are not a wholehearted back of the current policy? I've always | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
been slightly sceptical, which is why I am cross about the lecturing | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
of Labour MPs from Stephen. These are really big issues facing the | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
country and they don't need to be boiled down to conference | :38:33. | :38:43. | |
resolutions. We do need a proper debate. When it comes to the actual | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
vote, I will vote probably in favour of renewing Trident but I will | :38:46. | :38:48. | |
consult my party members. The people that matter the most are the people | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
of Ilford North who sent me to Parliament. Stephen Lowe, thank you. | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
Now, Brussels is on its third day of lockdown, | :38:55. | :38:56. | |
with schools and the metro closed, as the Belgian capital remains | :38:57. | :38:58. | |
Let's talk to our Europe correspondent, Chris Morris, | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
-- Christian Fraser. Does it look as though it will continue? Yes, I | :39:03. | :39:13. | |
think so. They are getting to grips with the problem. We have had 21 | :39:14. | :39:19. | |
arrests in the last 24 hours, and we have just had a statement from the | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
federal prosecutor that since last night they had picked up another | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
five people and at one of the addresses they recovered 26,000 | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
euros and some other things are currently looking at. You get a | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
feeling that the network that may have supported the brothers in | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
Molenbeek is being carefully dissected and they are picking more | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
and more people up all the time, and the crucial problem for the Fred | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
prosecutor is that they still don't have their man, Salah Abdeslam is an | :39:48. | :39:53. | |
unknown quantity and we do not know where he is -- federal prosecutor. | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
Until he is picked up, the anxiety will remain. I have seen the | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
pictures along with everyone else. Eerily quiet on the streets of | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
Brussels, but what is it like to be in a capital city that is literally | :40:06. | :40:11. | |
emptied of its people? Well, it is quiet. It's a bit busier today given | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
that it's the start of the working week but it's not normal to see an | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
armoured personnel carrier -- carrier on the forecourt of train | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
station. There are soldiers and police at strategic parts of the | :40:24. | :40:26. | |
city. Some people are getting on with it, the more resilient ones. It | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
is peculiar how you go about ordinary life. You going to copy | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
shop and you think about how how you might hide if something happens -- | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
copy shop. You go to hotels and wonder if it is a safe one. We had | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
colleagues in the centre of Brussels who were locked down in their hotel | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
for several hours and told to stay away from the windows. Some people | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
have had quite an anxious time over the last few days. I think that will | :40:52. | :40:56. | |
continue. As long as the threat level is there. We expect to hear | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
from the Prime Minister this afternoon, and he will discuss | :41:01. | :41:05. | |
whether it remains at level for going forward, but as long as Salah | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
Abdeslam is at large you wonder how he can register threat. I don't know | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
if you had a chance to talk to people, but do they generally | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
support the action taken by the government? I think there is some | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
frustration about the intelligence, and certainly the intelligence | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
around Molenbeek. It is quite clear by now that they lost track of the | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
situation. There was a network of people they did not know much about, | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
and until yesterday people were scratching their heads, saying, why | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
are people not being picked up this is the threat? I think they have | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
answered some of those questions in the last 24 hours but there is still | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
a problem. You feel the pressure that the interior Mission is under | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
-- interior Minister is under. He said he wanted to know everything | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
about these districts, even if the local authorities bang on every door | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
and demand to know who is living there. There is a bit of | :42:02. | :42:04. | |
finger-pointing between local authorities and the federal state. | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
They are pumping something like ?400 million into surveillance and better | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
police resources, but we are eight days on from the Paris attacks and | :42:14. | :42:18. | |
steel they are not getting to grips -- still they are not. They have | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
still not found Salah Abdeslam and I think people might be thinking that | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
in a small area like Brussels, why has that not happened? Christian | :42:29. | :42:29. | |
Fraser, thank you very much. Now, | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
it's going to be an exceptionally This afternoon, Mr Cameron will | :42:33. | :42:33. | |
outline the government's priorities for the Strategic Defence | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
and Spending Review. On Tuesday, | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
the Commons will debate an SNP motion on Trident, intended to put | :42:43. | :42:44. | |
Labour in an awkward position. On Wednesday, | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
the Chancellor takes centre stage with the Autumn Statement | :42:51. | :42:51. | |
and Comprehensive Spending Review. You can watch all of that in the | :42:52. | :43:03. | |
Daily Politics special from 11:30 a.m.. | :43:04. | :43:04. | |
Michael Fallon will also brief opposition MPs | :43:05. | :43:06. | |
at the MoD to set out the case for military action in Syria. | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
The Prime Minister is due to publish his response to the Foreign Affairs | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
Select Committee by Thursday, making the case for expanding UK airstrikes | :43:15. | :43:16. | |
to Syria with a Commons vote expected in the next two weeks. | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
We're joined now by the Guardian's Rafael Behr, and Tom Newton Dunn, | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
Welcome to both of you. The timing, do we expect this boat on air | :43:27. | :43:41. | |
strikes next week? Well, on Thursday, the Prime Minister will | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
set out the case and the framing of that is the foreign affairs select | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
report which was sceptical about military action. Then there will be | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
time for MPs to formally consider the response with some more briefing | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
of MPs, and certainly Number ten will be keen to make sure that they | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
feel enough MPs are persuaded on both times that it is a vote they | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
can win. There may be 15 or 20 conservatives who need persuading, | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
and we don't know on Labour MPs, but the feeling is that it is tilting | :44:13. | :44:16. | |
towards the Prime Minister being able to get it through and therefore | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
possibly next week or the week after we will have the vote. Do you think | :44:20. | :44:24. | |
the UN resolution will be a big factor? Absolutely huge. One of the | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
great problems most MPs have who are undecided, which is a diminishing | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
number, I think he could have won it in July. It would have been tight | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
but I think enough Labour MPs would have come over. But they wanted to | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
win it bigger? They wanted a slam dunk so they can say Britain has | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
squeaked it through. The UN resolution gives the legal backing, | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
which is a huge part of it. Even though it does not specifically | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
invoke the chapter seven that gives military action the green light? To | :44:58. | :45:00. | |
be honest, they had the legal backing anyway because of the self | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
defence roles they have used for taking out the likes of Jihadi John. | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
The UN just makes it copper bottomed. | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
Has the Government got its priorities right, equipment, but | :45:13. | :45:19. | |
some debate over a of personnel? We will hear the full details at | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
3:30pm. We have heard the good stuff from the Prime Minister. Even | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
Strategic Defence Review is get briefed out a few days in advance. | :45:30. | :45:35. | |
In DCAL, it seems. Everyone appreciates there is not a | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
never ending pot. You how to reshape the Armed Forces to fit the threat | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
it is cyber, terrorists, it sounds like they have a good balance with | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
this extra kit, the air carriers coming on board and Amanda is good | :45:52. | :45:57. | |
news. Is there a disconnect between the good news Tom says the Prime | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
Minister has talked about, while cutting police numbers, in light of | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
the terrorist threat we now face, and looking at those pictures from | :46:07. | :46:12. | |
Brussels and Paris and the 20% cut? You heard General Dan it described | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
the slash and burn approach. This is a broader problem the | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
Chancellor has with public spending, he embarked on deficits and debt | :46:22. | :46:27. | |
reduction, shrinking the amount of Government there was, reducing the | :46:28. | :46:34. | |
supply side. But the demand has not gone down. Now there is a wider | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
security threat. People will expect more bobbies on the beat, the | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
security to grow in accordance with the threat. | :46:45. | :46:46. | |
The message of the Government said five years has been these are | :46:47. | :46:51. | |
austere times and there is a limit to spending. There is a degree of | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
spinning around whether the Government is meeting demand with | :46:56. | :47:00. | |
the money available. If you look at protected departments, health, | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
defence now with this commitment, adding to the list of international | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
aid, schools, the logic is non-protected departments will take | :47:11. | :47:12. | |
a massive hit. A problem the Chancellor will have, | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
he ought to have if we had an opposition which was effective, is | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
that he has not come he has delivered the cuts but not reduced | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
the deficit by the amount he promised. People will realise we | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
have had a lot of pain but the gain in terms of improving the fiscal | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
outlook is not that great. Taking that into account, how does | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
George Osborne square the circle? ?20 billion of savings he wants, on | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
top of ?12 billion of cuts to welfare, running into problems with | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
making those cuts in tax credit which is supposed to be lessening | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
the impact, and achieving preceptors, how does that work? | :47:58. | :48:04. | |
Someone will get hurt. You forgot about pensions. ?120 | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
billion of ring-fenced money. There are very few departments left | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
which are not ring-fenced. The most interesting, the Home Office, | :48:18. | :48:24. | |
Justice, universities and post school training. They will get | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
massive cuts. The Chancellor can do something else. Tax rises? | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
Certainly. He has to put a huge amount of tax | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
rises on councils are giving them permission to raise council tax. | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
Extraordinary political wing from the Chancellor. There are Government | :48:43. | :48:50. | |
wide things you can do such as civil servant pay, Armed Forces pay, | :48:51. | :48:56. | |
costing and enormous amount. A small slice of the hand, some play with | :48:57. | :49:02. | |
progression across civil service pay could save many billions. Tax | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
credits will be the big one. I think George Osborne, having messed this | :49:09. | :49:11. | |
up proudly previously, will push the boat out to make sure he gets | :49:12. | :49:18. | |
reasonably universal, but something substantial which means spending a | :49:19. | :49:21. | |
lot of money which means he has to find it from somewhere else. | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
In the Autumn Statement last year, the target. This was much higher. It | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
has shrunk down because he realised he overreached. One of the few | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
Labour effective attacks was to bring Government spending down. | :49:41. | :49:48. | |
There is essentially a reserve fund and the Chancellor could bring that | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
down further. He has done a discrete U-turn essentially abandoning his | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
target. He has a lot of political room for manoeuvre because the | :49:59. | :50:01. | |
Labour Party hasn't done enough to show it has a credible approach to | :50:02. | :50:05. | |
dealing with the fiscal situation. He could raid from himself at the | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
end of parliament and push those targets for a surplus. | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
But you don't make the savings next year. | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
Where would he come up with ?4 billion next year. And the next | :50:19. | :50:32. | |
issue is what an extraordinary timing it will be for the Chancellor | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
to make the case for war on Syria, just as we try to get our heads | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
around figures in the Autumn Statement. | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
Is he being cynical? It pays to be cynical about the way things are | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
timed in politics but you cannot attribute events in Syria to a | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
Downing Street grade designed to overcome difficulties over the | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
fiscal situation with these things colliding. | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
It is falling well for Downing Street is the polite way to put it. | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
We look forward to the headlines. We can say this is a big week at | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
Westminster. Thank you, gentlemen. | :51:18. | :51:19. | |
We've already been talking about plans for defence spending. | :51:20. | :51:21. | |
Sounds like the Government is prepared to | :51:22. | :51:23. | |
But what small change will it find in there? | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
The Ministry Of Defence owns 1% of all land in the UK. | :51:30. | :51:31. | |
So, selling of some of it is certainly an option. | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
In fact, the Government owns ?300 billion | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
worth of property and land in this country, and is currently involved | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
Always in the market for a bargain, Ellie has been having a look. | :51:40. | :51:47. | |
# Our house is a very, very fine house | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
# With two cats in the yard Life used to be so hard. # | :51:50. | :51:58. | |
No longer for the admirals. | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
It is going to be a posh hotel with posh flats, | :52:03. | :52:05. | |
Even if you are not staying in the hotel, you will be able to | :52:06. | :52:15. | |
come and enjoy, have a drink, and admire these wonderful views. | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
The Government sold it in June and made ?65.5 million. | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
But it is still something of doer-upper. | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
It is bringing new life to the building. | :52:28. | :52:29. | |
The building is magnificent also from the inside. | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
Part of our strategy is to work on the restoration of Admiralty Arch. | :52:32. | :52:40. | |
When it went on the market, there were concerns public access | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
The Government is still the freeholder, and has taken advice | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
In fact, so pleased is the minister in charge, he wants to | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
In the last Parliament, we managed to raise ?1.8 billion | :52:51. | :52:59. | |
by selling off about 20% of the property used by the Government. | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
We think we can go much further and raise about ?6 billion. | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
After all, it costs a lot to have a civil servant working | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
Much cheaper to have them working in purpose-built offices. | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
Aren't you just selling off the family silver? | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
No, we're allowing the public into these | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
brilliant, interesting, old buildings the Government no longer | :53:30. | :53:31. | |
needs. Good for taxpayers, and great for the public to use | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
These assets are not all in the capital. | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
It's not everyone's des res but this nuclear bunker is up | :53:40. | :53:42. | |
For the more architecturally astute, there was the Bidston Observatory | :53:43. | :53:47. | |
And, fresh onto the market, this programme can reveal, there's | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
a vacant part of the 19th-century Dulwich Hospital site which could be | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
We estimate up to a quarter of the brownfield land suitable for housing | :53:58. | :54:04. | |
There is huge potential to play a major role | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
Ministers have also introduced a scheme called | :54:09. | :54:14. | |
the right to contest where the public can demand a Government | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
building is sold if they can prove it can be put to better use. | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
Joining us now is the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Wallace. | :54:22. | :54:38. | |
Wellcome, Matt Hancock has said the month has sold ?1.7 billion of | :54:39. | :54:45. | |
Government buildings, is this selling off the family silver? | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
Not entirely but selling to support the current spending is what | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
companies in trouble do. That is one of our worries. He was selling off | :54:58. | :55:04. | |
capital assets, you should be putting that into further | :55:05. | :55:07. | |
investment, that is a first query. What some of them said about is | :55:08. | :55:18. | |
selling off the historic estate, and concentrating on buildings in | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
Croydon or Leeds is clearly what you do if you are shrinking the size of | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
central Government, that is more efficient. | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
As Government becomes more efficient and smaller, an inevitable part is | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
you will downsize and some of that real estate will be surplus. There | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
is a duty to the taxpayer to make sure we are delivering value for | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
money and with expensive property, you could put it to better use. | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
Running these officers is expensive. If you want an efficient central | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
Government, you want Government concentrated, ideally a situation | :55:52. | :55:54. | |
where ministers and senior officials can walk easily from one department | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
to the other. The old War office, in the middle of | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
Whitehall, where you can scatter your senior officials out to Croydon | :56:04. | :56:10. | |
and beyond, that is not efficient. Do you believe selling of buildings | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
like Admiralty Arch, the old War office, does that constitute a | :56:16. | :56:19. | |
security risk? The question I have asked is how far | :56:20. | :56:22. | |
the Government had assured themselves there was not a security | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
risk. This was a state position -- | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
possession. When President Bush was here, he | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
insisted his officials insisted the whole of Whitehall be closed off and | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
they asked if the Jubilee line underneath could be closed. There | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
are evident security risks and we were not assured the Government had | :56:46. | :56:52. | |
thought this through before selling. There -- is this wise in these | :56:53. | :56:55. | |
times? We leave security to professionals. | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
Security is left to a brilliant security service structure in this | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
country. If you start down that route, where | :57:06. | :57:11. | |
do you stop? You are saying there is a security risk to sell these | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
buildings because it... We should lead this to the security | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
professionals. The question is, have the security | :57:21. | :57:28. | |
professionals looked at it, has been assured. And invisible times I have | :57:29. | :57:33. | |
no problem with selling off a load of land and property owned by the | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
state, not least because across London we have a housing crisis. | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
There is much of that Brownfield capacity. We know what the driver | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
is, George Osborne has been missing his targets on deficit, debt. He is | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
lucky he has a busy news because this is not a good week for an | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
Autumn Statement. A lot of these sales are driven by wanting to plug | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
the holes in his failures. Look at the seats on tax, terrible. | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
There is a credible point, Johnny Mercer, he wants to make his surplus | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
target, and selling of to bring money into the treasury. I do not | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
think George is going about this by selling the family assets to balance | :58:18. | :58:19. | |
his books. He is trying to run an efficient | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
Government to run an efficient economy on scale and on target. | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
Otherwise you can't do all defence and look after the most vulnerable. | :58:30. | :58:36. | |
It is part of a larger strategy. It is partly about shrinking the | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
state. Senior civil servants are being crammed into remarkably small | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
offices where there are not enough seats for those working there. | :58:45. | :58:49. | |
That is shrinking the state. Thank you to all of our guests. | :58:50. | :58:51. | |
The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now. | :58:52. | :58:56. | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big | :58:57. | :58:59. |