18/12/2015 Daily Politics


18/12/2015

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Welcome to the Daily Politics Christmas special.

:00:36.:00:43.

David Cameron's been out wining and dining with his European chums.

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He claims "really good progress" was made during talks about the UK's

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relationship with the European Union.

:00:50.:00:53.

Other leaders in Brussels demured, but spoke

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of a willingness to look for compromises.

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This man, against all the odds, became Labour Party leader.

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And only this morning calls for this man's face to be replaced

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Yes, we'll be asking who's had a good year and who's had a bad?

:01:12.:01:20.

We sent our intrepid reporters out to find out what YOU think.

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This is like a really rubbish version of Top Gear.

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Hello boys and girls. I am Santa from the frozen far north, I have

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come to see who in the whacky world of the Daily Politics has been nice,

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but more important to me, who has been naughtty.

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The Prime Minister trying to nudge his way into the programme. Trying

:02:02.:02:07.

to up stage Santa. You have to wait your time. Why has the Santa guilt a

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Swedish accent. I thought he was from Lapland. I think it is called a

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disguise. I have been a good boy Santa, I know some people who

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haven't been so good. Who is that? More is coming up in the next hour.

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And look who we found in the Daily Politics

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Helen "I want a game for Christmas" Lewis from the New Statesman.

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And Danny "The Lord" Finklestein from the Times.

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The Prime Minister insists he has taken a "big step" towards a better

:02:38.:02:47.

After a four-hour dinner with EU leaders in Brussels last night,

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a path in place to renegotiate the terms of the UK's EU membership.

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But he accepts securing a deal by the next key summit in February

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Let's listen to what the PM had to say last night.

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Prime Minister it is now your turn to say something.

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I knew that was going to happen. I would say the good news

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is that there is a pathway And I am confident of that,

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after the discussion we had. But the truth is this,

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it will be very hard work - not just hard work on welfare,

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but actually hard work on all of the issues

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we have put forward, because they are substantial,

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they involve real change, and they will need real

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decisions by all 28 members I think you can see

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from the conclusions published tonight, the nature of the progress,

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the conclusions make very clear that the European council agreed

:03:53.:03:56.

to work closely together, to find mutually satisfactory

:03:57.:03:59.

solutions in all the four areas at the European council meeting

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on the 18th to the 19th That was the Prime Minister. Third

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Third time lucky but we got there in the end.

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And joining us now from Brussels, UKIP leader, Nigel Farage.

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We can see you, can we hear you? I hope so. You are loud and clear,

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that is a relief. The Prime Minister seems to be

:04:31.:04:34.

getting somewhere, he has four baskets of demands, three of them

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seem to be going along pretty well. They are quite important, if vague,

:04:38.:04:42.

and he is still negotiating on the fourth one, that is not a bad result

:04:43.:04:47.

so far A path ray to progress, you couldn't invent. It look, there is

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only one demand here, that needs any real action, the rest can be

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promises on a piece of paper. He wanted a cut, migrant benefits for

:04:59.:05:00.

up to four that the eastern Europeans won't

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agree to it, nowhere overnight, and so we will

:05:04.:05:08.

come back here, on the 11th nowhere overnight, and so we will

:05:09.:05:13.

February, for a special summit, at which there will be a deal. The deal

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will be, that will restrict migrant benefit bus we will restrict

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benefits for British citizens who have lived abroad for a period of

:05:22.:05:25.

year, that is what the deal will be. But we haven't talked about any of

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the big stuff. You remember the Bloomberg speech, the big

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renegotiation of Britain's relationship with Europe,

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questioning whether we could control the border, all of that is out the

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window, it is down to one basic demand, which he can't get, without

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British people paying some of the price too. If the people had gone

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for a deal which involved free trade with the European Union, but

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released us from many of the political obligations but we stayed

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inside the EU with free trade, would you have supported staying in in

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Would I support deal with our European neighbours, where we that

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had a free trade deal, where we had reciprocity on student exchanges, a

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format and forum in which we could agree common minimum standards but

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the supremacy of our own law in our own Parliament and control our

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borders, of course. If we stayed within the European Union. You can't

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stay inside a political union who since 1957 have insisted upon the

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supremacy of European law and do those thing, what it goes to prove

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is that actually what Harold Wilson did 40 years ago was deliberately

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lie, to the British public, and I don't think we are going to be

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gulled again. Danny, what do you say to Nigel Farage, many of the really

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big issuesness the Conservatives have been concerned about control of

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British borders, getting out of all the European regulation, out of the

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CAP, all of that, just free trade agreement, none of that is really on

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the table? I don't think the relationship will be completely

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transformed by the negotiation, I think Nigel is correct. In the end

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Eurosceptics like me will have to make a difficult choice, between a

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European Union that does have probably more power than we would

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like to see, that isn't I think in the regulatory way everything would

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want, versus what I regard as paying a higher cost, than Nigel thinks we

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will play for not being inside... Are this renegotiations peripheral

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or imagine natural? I can only speak for myself, you know, if I look at

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it I am certainly very interested to know whether the European Union is

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willing to agree that there should be no closer union. Nigel may say

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that is pointless, to me I think it will be, if the European Union were

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to refuse to agree to that demand. Do I think that this will mean that

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the decision is fundamentally different? No, I hoped originally, I

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think, that this would coincide with the eurozone's own constitutional

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decisions and therefore it would become the negotiations would make

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it even clearer for me, but in the end, you know, we will be left with

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the balance and it is a striking a different balance. I think that the

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relationship with other European nations and how we reduce for

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example trading barriers and costs of regulation, is more easily done

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inside a European single market and we can't create that all by ourself,

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we have to pay some attention to what others think. Helen, how

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strongly will Labour, as the Labour Party, campaign to stay in They have

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got a problem which is that Jeremy Corbyn is much cooler on Europe that

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many of his MPs. I don't think there is a problem with the exception of

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the occasional pure Eurosceptic, Who are well established. The The party

:08:58.:09:03.

is united. Alan Johnson is leading the Labour campaign, he is so

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well-respected a lot of them wish he were leader. Will Mr Corbyn pub the

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Labour machine we hind the stay in? All through the leadership is this

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the hill you want to die on, is is something he is willing to concede

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to people. He has been willing to concede this is not an issue he

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wants to stamp his foot and have a fight with the party. Nigel Farage

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don't go, stay, we have more to talk to you about. Let us move on the

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polls. So the polls on Europe -

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should we stay in or leave - So as a festive treat we sent,

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not one, not two, but three Daily Politics reporters out

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with the most unscientific instrument known to mankind -

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the Daily Politics mood-box - to spread a little bit

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of Christmas cheer. I don't know about you,

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but the topic of discussion at my Christmas dinner

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is going to be - EU, Are you going to be

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voting in or out? When it comes to the EU referendum,

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are you going to vote in or out? Just my knowledge is not that great,

:10:17.:10:19.

but the financial benefits I like being able to travel

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there without any problems. What language

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are you speaking? I feel if we left we would be

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all alone, we would be Pop a ball in the inbox

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for me, would you. It seems a bit stupid

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to be on your own. Out, out, I am an Englishman

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not a European. So hopefully people will think it's

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some sort of modern art. Do you not discuss politics

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round your Christmas dinner table? Well, we have given up and come

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for gluhwein instead. But as you can see, the result

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is overwhelmingly for in. It's very unscientific,

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but it's a very Merry How do you read the polls at the

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moment? Think the momentum has shifted, since the May 7th general

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election and there is no question that the energy and the excitement

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has been on the side, of those of us who want to leave behind the

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European Union and move on to something more positive and better,

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but you are right, obviously, if we took the Lord Ashcroft poll which

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showed the leave side 8 points ahead we might get terribly excited. There

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is long way to go. I think this, the big scare factor, the idea if we

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weren't part of the European Union, they wouldn't buy our goods, I think

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that really is deminute Iraning as a fear factor, I think people

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understand that trade takes place, all over the world, between

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countries who very rarely have political union, I think the migrant

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crisis and the sheer numbers of people coming to Britain, and some

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very big questions today, about are the figures we have had since 2004

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the right ones or indeed are they much higher, I think that concern,

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add to that now, fears about security, fears about terrorism, and

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I think this argument that we should be controlling our borders, will in

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my view become the central part of this referendum campaign. So it is

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your view then, that immigration, the migrant crisis, that will become

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the dominant theme of the in-out referendum? The question is, I think

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in the end the question is this, is Britain safer and more secure being

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part of the European Union, or taking part control of our own

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lives? I think increasingly, there is an argument that actually,

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controlling your borders, being as far away from a common European

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asylum policy, that frankly is inviting terrorism, to come into

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Europe, is the right and sensible place to be. Of course many people

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on the other side will say the exact opposite, that at a time of

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terrorism and insecurity, and danger, we need to be inside the

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European Union, we need to work with our European allies, to combat

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terrorism, as we did with the French, after the attacks on Paris

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and as we are doing with the Germans too, that the argument of security

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will be used as a reason for staying inside the

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Thank we want to deal with cross-border crime of our European

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neighbours, people trafficking and terrorism, we can do that as

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sovereign governments, through Interpol. The point I'm making is

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that of the 1.5 million people who have settled in Europe this year as

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part of the EU's common asylum policy, barely a single one of the

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McBean security checked and, increasingly, we are seeing the

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Greek being used by jihadists as a means of getting into Europe. But

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there is no doubt and once they have German passports, or French

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passports in three or four years' time, they can all come to Britain

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and that becomes a really important fundamental argument. All right. A

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lot of issues there which we will have plenty of time to talk about in

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2016. For the moment, if the deed is done, some dealers done in February,

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at the next summit, it raises the opportunity of having the referendum

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in June though there could well be a number of hurdles in the way of

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doing that and if not June, September. Let

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doing that and if not June, questions. Do you think it will be

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now in 2016 and if so, when? It'll questions. Do you think it will be

:16:02.:16:10.

certain. -- in June. questions. Do you think it will be

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go to France that day for questions. Do you think it will be

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be. From the Prime Minister 's perspective, the possibility

:16:23.:16:25.

be. From the Prime Minister 's and 17-year-olds getting the

:16:26.:16:28.

be. From the Prime Minister 's could delay the whole process by six

:16:29.:16:32.

months, that type the way. Secondly, the Prime Minister will look at next

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summer and maybe even more migrants will come into Europe across the

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Mediterranean and through the Western Balkans. Thirdly, he will

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calculate that the outside divided. He will see that there is boat

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leave, leave EU, the peace negotiations have failed and, hey

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presto, on the very morning the Prime Minister looks as most

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presto, on the very morning the vulnerable renegotiation, a senior

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presto, on the very morning the rumpus there. For all those reasons,

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he will go in early, not late. Very interesting. Get that in my diary.

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That's that trip to France kibosh. Nigel, stable is one more time,

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please. After UKIP dramatically won

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the European elections last year, Mr Farage warned the political

:17:23.:17:24.

establishment to expect an upset But it turned out that the self

:17:25.:17:27.

styled "People's Army" didn't have quite as much firepower as he had

:17:28.:17:32.

hoped, winning only one seat. Since then the party has been

:17:33.:17:36.

fraught with division and infighting and in the latest volly,

:17:37.:17:42.

the party's only MP Douglas Carswell told the BBC that UKIP needs a fresh

:17:43.:17:44.

face as leader, with an optimistic I've been brought up around fish,

:17:45.:17:48.

but it weren't for me, I'd be one of those flavours that

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some people adore and others find and get diagnosed with HIV and get

:18:17.:18:23.

the retroviral drugs. I don't break my word,

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so I shall be writing to the UK Ukip National Executive in a few

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minutes, saying that I am standing Every single one of our major donors

:18:38.:18:41.

came out publicly in support character, in the terms

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of the way he is perceived. I've never heard so much

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twaddle in all my life. I'm gay, you can't get more gay

:19:08.:19:09.

than me, and I'm the leader of Ukip And I do hereby declare

:19:10.:19:14.

that Jim McMahon is duly elected as the member

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of Parliament... Nigel Farage, all the good and bad

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bits there. It's been an eventful year. Had it been good or bad

:19:46.:19:51.

overall from your perspective? In 2014, four .5 million votes and won

:19:52.:19:55.

the European elections, and that was amazing. In this year 's general

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election we still got 4 million votes. That was deemed to be a

:20:02.:20:06.

failure. Here we are now, seven months on from the election, our

:20:07.:20:10.

supporters 25% higher than it was in the general election but I have

:20:11.:20:15.

never in over 20 years of Ukip Sena party that is more solidly united

:20:16.:20:21.

around policy, direction and leadership than it is today and what

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we have had, ever since that general election, is one individual, mostly

:20:26.:20:31.

in private, but today, in public, criticising the leadership. That's

:20:32.:20:37.

fine. Since you mentioned him, and is the season of goodwill for

:20:38.:20:40.

Douglas Carswell, although he may did not get the message from your

:20:41.:20:43.

office, he has not held back. Let's hear him.

:20:44.:20:46.

Sometimes a start-up needs to change gear and change of management

:20:47.:20:48.

And the Oldham by-election to me said very clearly that I think

:20:49.:20:53.

That doesn't sound much like unity, Nigel Farage, but... As I say to

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you, I have the unanimous support of the Ukip National executive, the

:21:09.:21:18.

MEPs and, amazingly, 91.4% of Ukip voters in recent opinion polls

:21:19.:21:20.

support my leadership so my position has never been secure. More secure.

:21:21.:21:25.

There's one person who does not agree with this. He managed to get

:21:26.:21:30.

elected sub is quite important. He did but so what? He's one person. We

:21:31.:21:38.

cannot have one individual, every single time better Ukip conference,

:21:39.:21:43.

it finishes with a story of disunity and it's all being caused by one

:21:44.:21:47.

person and, frankly, I think it's going to have to rent. How will it

:21:48.:21:52.

have to rent? He's going to have to put up or shut up. -- to end. Either

:21:53.:22:01.

he have to say Ukip are unified behind leadership and deal with

:22:02.:22:05.

immigration is a fundamental issue in British politics, and not

:22:06.:22:08.

something we should shy away from, either he's going to have to accept

:22:09.:22:11.

that or do something different. Leave the party? I do know what he

:22:12.:22:17.

wants to do. In the end, it will not be me that makes this decision. It

:22:18.:22:23.

will be Douglas. We know he agrees with us on the question of European

:22:24.:22:27.

membership. The difficulty is, we think controlling immigration,

:22:28.:22:31.

having an Australian side point system is the right way forward, he

:22:32.:22:36.

seems to think and feel it's too awkward to talk about. Do you regret

:22:37.:22:43.

him joining Ukip? No, of course not. That was a big part of building our

:22:44.:22:47.

momentum, winning the by-election, Rochester, all of that was part of

:22:48.:22:50.

our journey and actually, the People's Army is growing. He's been

:22:51.:22:58.

part of that. He must decide whether he wants to continue. Otherwise, in

:22:59.:23:06.

your mind, you should leave? We cannot have, I don't think our

:23:07.:23:10.

national executive will allow one individual to give an impression to

:23:11.:23:15.

the country that Ukip is divided when, actually, it's very united.

:23:16.:23:20.

Have you spoken to him? When did you last speak to him? A week ago, ten

:23:21.:23:28.

days ago. How was that? He wanted to vote for the intervention in Syria,

:23:29.:23:33.

but we, as a party traditionally, have been low interventionist in

:23:34.:23:36.

things like this. I can live with that. His criticisms over the

:23:37.:23:41.

by-election frankly pretty invalid. If 2.5 years ago we got a quarter of

:23:42.:23:45.

the vote, in a Northern by-election, people would have said it was

:23:46.:23:52.

phenomenal and it was democratically an easy feat. OK, thank you. Danny,

:23:53.:24:01.

what say you? They have a Parliamentary party of one and they

:24:02.:24:04.

are split. Funnily enough I'm on his side in this. There was a base for

:24:05.:24:09.

Ukip and it is people who share Nigel Farage's view basically on

:24:10.:24:13.

immigration. I don't belong to that base and Douglas Carswell doesn't.

:24:14.:24:18.

Douglas Carswell is a libertarian who believes in halving the

:24:19.:24:25.

expenditure on health service, privatising education, National

:24:26.:24:31.

Health Service, and he thinks that the country should have a liberal

:24:32.:24:34.

immigration policy. It does not fit with Ukip. The limits on Ukip not

:24:35.:24:41.

set by Nigel Farage, but are set by the fact Ukip takes a strong opinion

:24:42.:24:44.

which is acceptable to a group of people and will never go beyond it

:24:45.:24:49.

so intrinsically cock in my view, the Ukip project is limited and will

:24:50.:24:53.

never be successful. The interviews we have done with Douglas Carswell,

:24:54.:24:59.

there has been a bit of a division on key issues between Douglas

:25:00.:25:01.

Carswell and the rest of the party but in terms of disunity, it hasn't

:25:02.:25:06.

just been about Douglas Carswell. There has been in fighting with

:25:07.:25:11.

Suzanne Evans and Patrick Flynn. How do you see them progressing in 2016?

:25:12.:25:16.

As a fight for Nigel Farage to get as enemies out of the party. It's a

:25:17.:25:20.

mirror of what's happening in the Labour Party except on a tiny scale.

:25:21.:25:24.

It could be resolved with an arm wrestle basically and one would be

:25:25.:25:28.

in charge of the other. That's a huge problem, there's been a

:25:29.:25:31.

persistent question about what is Ukip doing with Nigel Farage? Nick

:25:32.:25:35.

Clegg stood down from Ed Miliband stood down, there was no question

:25:36.:25:39.

dollar so did Nigel Farage be changed his mind. There was no

:25:40.:25:44.

question their parties would not manage without them. His resignation

:25:45.:25:50.

was rescinded within 48 hours. Is it possible it has peaked? I think the

:25:51.:25:55.

big difficulty would be whether what happens to Europe or the EU

:25:56.:26:00.

referendum, I think Nigel Farage is right, the way to fight membership

:26:01.:26:03.

of the European Union is on immigration and Douglas Carswell and

:26:04.:26:07.

a number of other people don't agree. After the European referendum

:26:08.:26:11.

they will have a serious problem after that. Remember, it's the third

:26:12.:26:16.

week of June. Douglas Carswell is Ukip but it sounds like Nigel Farage

:26:17.:26:27.

wants to be an independent candidate. England are playing Wales

:26:28.:26:32.

on that day in the US 16 on the third Thursday of June. Ever living

:26:33.:26:36.

and playing Australia at Lord's, I would understand it. That would be

:26:37.:26:45.

Though Ukip's gene For the ral election

:26:46.:26:47.

squib, they weren't the only upstart party looking to light a fire under

:26:48.:26:52.

the British political establishment in 2015.

:26:53.:26:54.

The Scottish National Party, the Green Party and Plaid Cymru

:26:55.:26:56.

all had high-hopes, though the traditional third party,

:26:57.:26:58.

the Liberal Democrats, could only cross their fingers

:26:59.:27:00.

and wait for their worst which turned out to be far worse

:27:01.:27:03.

For me, it's about making Scotland's voice heard.

:27:04.:27:23.

What are you looking at doing is basically...

:27:24.:27:26.

Plaid Cymru will not apologise for speaking up for Wales

:27:27.:27:42.

And the other parties, the Liberal Democrats

:27:43.:27:50.

If this exit poll is right, Andrew, I will publicly eat my hat

:27:51.:27:59.

Caroline Lucas is duly elected as a member of Parliament.

:28:00.:28:09.

And therefore I announce I will be resigning

:28:10.:28:21.

as leader of the Liberal Democrats.

:28:22.:28:23.

The new leader of the Liberal Democrats,

:28:24.:28:25.

And to look back over the year, we're joined by the SNP's Culture,

:28:26.:28:41.

Media and Sport spokesperson, John Nicolson MP.

:28:42.:28:47.

you do all of that. Simultaneously and in reverse order, too. An

:28:48.:28:53.

amazing year for the SNP. and in reverse order, too. An

:28:54.:28:57.

another amazing one coming up. and in reverse order, too. An

:28:58.:29:00.

year, too. What have you achieved since May?

:29:01.:29:06.

year, too. What have you achieved different things. The first thing

:29:07.:29:10.

year, too. What have you achieved is, as working MPs, I think there is

:29:11.:29:12.

a general acknowledgement the is, as working MPs, I think there is

:29:13.:29:17.

speaker no less saying a couple of times who was impressed with the

:29:18.:29:21.

work ethic of the SNP and the Queen is said to have said they are a lot

:29:22.:29:25.

more Scots in Parliament on these to be. And around, it's just that we

:29:26.:29:30.

all turn up and get involved. Unlike a lot of previous Scots on the Tory

:29:31.:29:34.

side, you've also got Scottish accidents. Indeed, although the

:29:35.:29:38.

Scottish Tories do now have Scottish voices. They used to talk

:29:39.:29:47.

Scottish Tories do now have Scottish Malcolm Rifkind and now they roll

:29:48.:29:51.

their Rs like no tomorrow. Like what? I thought were just broken all

:29:52.:29:57.

the rules of daytime television! How do you handle the widespread

:29:58.:30:01.

expectation in do you handle the widespread

:30:02.:30:05.

the UK that you are going to do very well in the Hollywood election in a

:30:06.:30:09.

Scottish Parliament elections in May. How do you handle these

:30:10.:30:12.

expectations because, in a sense, if you don't do incredibly well, the

:30:13.:30:16.

narrative will be they did all right but didn't do as well as they

:30:17.:30:17.

thought. Behave naturally. All these rules

:30:18.:30:25.

about talking up and down expectation, they can seem very

:30:26.:30:30.

forced and false, so either you lay out your manifesto, you debate, you

:30:31.:30:34.

fry to be open and transparent, and you ask for the people's mandate.

:30:35.:30:38.

You will be disappointed, of course, if you don't get another overall

:30:39.:30:43.

majority in Edinburgh. Of course. The polls suggest you will

:30:44.:30:48.

comfortably:? The polls suggest the SNP will do as well as they did last

:30:49.:30:52.

time and it did very well last time. Viewer might not know the whole

:30:53.:30:59.

system was set up to prevent anybody, because the worry of the

:31:00.:31:02.

time devolution was set up from the smaller parties at the time was that

:31:03.:31:07.

Labour, especially west coast Labour would dominate, and so there was a

:31:08.:31:12.

commission that was set up to device an electoral system that would allow

:31:13.:31:15.

the smaller parties a look in. It was never meant to happen, the

:31:16.:31:18.

overall majority, the SNP has been in Government for eight years. Is

:31:19.:31:23.

Let us assume that you win comfortably, so there is no real

:31:24.:31:30.

threat, but who is second? Who is the longer term potential threat,

:31:31.:31:33.

Labour or Conservative? This is interest. You would think it is the

:31:34.:31:38.

Labour Party, but we are seeing something interesting that happening

:31:39.:31:41.

in Scotland which is the Conservative Party is tacking to the

:31:42.:31:46.

left. They have a very articulate leader in Ruth Davidson, she is a

:31:47.:31:51.

breath of fresh air, many people think, and she is clearly trying to

:31:52.:31:57.

position herself as the champion of unionism. From a centrist type

:31:58.:32:01.

position? Precisely. I know myself I found on the doorstep some people

:32:02.:32:04.

telling me they have always voted Labour, they are not in favour of

:32:05.:32:07.

Scottish independence, and they are going to vote Tory next time round.

:32:08.:32:11.

I have never heard that before. That is is a big jump for people. They

:32:12.:32:17.

used to of course. They were the last party to get more than 50%.

:32:18.:32:25.

1955. Not many people remember that. This is becoming a narrative for

:32:26.:32:30.

today. I thought I would throw in a bit... It was called the cultural

:32:31.:32:38.

cringe where Scots felt that hay to affect that particular, also, you

:32:39.:32:42.

would get that Kelvinside accent. The morning side. Do you feel we are

:32:43.:32:50.

intruding here? Mussolini was a wonderful man you know. Exactly.

:32:51.:32:56.

Exactly. Is it not possible, listening to what John has to say

:32:57.:33:02.

there, and thinking that it is possible, that the Liberal Democrat

:33:03.:33:07.

recovery may not be as such? Now the Scottish Labour Party as John is

:33:08.:33:11.

saying may not recover that much either. We may look back on 2015 as

:33:12.:33:17.

watershed in our politics. The Scottish Labour Party has a big

:33:18.:33:21.

battle ahead. I can conceive of them coming third. My question is,

:33:22.:33:26.

isn'ting with being an SNP MP boring? You are so on message, so we

:33:27.:33:33.

have talked about, I agree it can go to ware and are you end up in a Ukip

:33:34.:33:40.

situation. You are slightly robotic. I find, that is on message to say

:33:41.:33:45.

robot, robot, every time you talk to an SNP MP. We have had this

:33:46.:33:50.

conversation before. Many times. We were told the problem with the SNP

:33:51.:33:54.

MPs was they were a rabble, uncontrollable. Clapping, and

:33:55.:34:00.

behaving in an odd way. Braveheart. Precisely, with bode, I think a lot

:34:01.:34:06.

of the -- wode. A lot of them were surprised to discover we spoke

:34:07.:34:09.

English, and the narrative has changed. From being uncontrollable,

:34:10.:34:15.

to being to controlled. You cannot ea seriously look at Tommy Shepherd,

:34:16.:34:20.

me, Dr Phillipa and say we are clones. We are very different people

:34:21.:34:25.

with different backgrounds, and... I did go to your party conference and

:34:26.:34:32.

it was new Labouresque. I take my hat off to you. I would be

:34:33.:34:36.

interested to know what Andrew thinks, I think it is an

:34:37.:34:40.

extraordinary thing, the party tends to agree with the policies. But also

:34:41.:34:47.

it is early days. It is. We have more ground to cover there, because

:34:48.:34:50.

we need to find out what is happening with our three wise

:34:51.:34:51.

reporters. Remember, we've sent them out

:34:52.:34:53.

with a tinsel-trimmed This time I think they are asking

:34:54.:34:55.

whether Labour's been bad So, my little reindeers,

:34:56.:34:59.

shall we do Labour, Labour, have they had

:35:00.:35:03.

a good year or a bad year? Who would have thought

:35:04.:35:09.

they had a good year? So, you don't even want to know

:35:10.:35:28.

what the question is? The Labour Party, did

:35:29.:35:31.

they have a good year or a bad Take a ball, pop it

:35:32.:35:34.

in the box you think. This year, I don't think they did

:35:35.:35:58.

well in the election and I don't think they've done themselves any

:35:59.:36:02.

favours with Corbyn. I just met five Corbyistas who don't

:36:03.:36:03.

want to be filmed because they don't But I think people are expecting

:36:04.:36:13.

quite a lot and I don't know Haven't seen anyone in a Christmas

:36:14.:36:28.

jumper for a while. I think they'll do well

:36:29.:36:43.

in the future hopefully. Happy New Year then

:36:44.:36:48.

for Jeremy Corbyn. Has it been a good year

:36:49.:36:51.

in politics for you? Yes, our member of Parliament voted

:36:52.:37:10.

against bombing Syria. So the winter weather has

:37:11.:37:15.

got the better of us. But Labour seem to have had more

:37:16.:37:17.

people think they've had a bad year And with us now the Labour

:37:18.:37:21.

MP, Tulip Sadiq. How would you describe Labour's

:37:22.:37:47.

year? V it has been surprising. Elaborate. An understatement? There

:37:48.:37:52.

were lots of people saying I will eat my hat if Jeremy Corbyn gets

:37:53.:37:56.

elected as leader. I hope they are enjoying their hats right now. A lot

:37:57.:38:02.

of hats have been digested. You nominated Jeremy Corbyn, is that

:38:03.:38:06.

what you wanted, has it turned out the way you expected? When I

:38:07.:38:10.

nominated Jeremy, who I have known for a long time, I never expected

:38:11.:38:13.

him to win. I never thought Jeremy Corbyn would be leader of the Labour

:38:14.:38:18.

Party, and I voted for Andy Burnham but I nominated Jeremy. No, I didn't

:38:19.:38:22.

expect it in all honesty. Is it what you want or wanted? I like the fact

:38:23.:38:29.

we have so many new member, we have a thousand new new Labour members in

:38:30.:38:34.

my constituency. I like that. Do I like the infighting? Probably not.

:38:35.:38:40.

It has been pretty bad. If you have a marginal seat like mine, you

:38:41.:38:44.

concentrate on your seat and the issues that are important to your

:38:45.:38:49.

constituents. I will admit the PLP meetings haven't been pleasant. Do

:38:50.:38:54.

you blame one side or the other. I don't blame anyone in particular,

:38:55.:38:58.

after a big election like this the surprising result, there is going to

:38:59.:39:01.

be some kind of fall out. Even if my constituency when I stood against

:39:02.:39:05.

other people, there was always a fall out afterwards, that is what we

:39:06.:39:08.

are seeing at the moment. I don't blame anyone. It has been difficult

:39:09.:39:14.

for anyone. Danny, after Oldham, do you think that been a turning point

:39:15.:39:18.

for Jeremy Corbyn, I mean, do you any in a sense they were able to say

:39:19.:39:23.

then, you are going have to give I us a bit more time? His position is

:39:24.:39:28.

fundamentally strong. If you win the leadership election with 60%, your

:39:29.:39:32.

position is strong. He has a strong thesis about how the Labour Party

:39:33.:39:35.

can win again, which I happen to think is ridiculous, but he believes

:39:36.:39:39.

it coherent and he would imagine I would think it ridiculous. I

:39:40.:39:44.

wouldn't be phased by that. He has a clear view, clear support for

:39:45.:39:49.

activist, in my view he has a problem in the Parliamentary party.

:39:50.:39:52.

Has to bring the party behind him and recognise it is him or them.

:39:53.:39:57.

They won't conciliate with them, the internal fighting will not cease and

:39:58.:40:00.

therefore he has to either win that battle or lose the leadership. Is

:40:01.:40:05.

that how you see it? Does he have to beat the side, the par part of the

:40:06.:40:09.

Parliamentary party that doesn't support him and is rumoured to be

:40:10.:40:13.

moving against him at some future point, or does he need to reach out

:40:14.:40:18.

to them? I think he did reach out. There were very few Corbyn voters in

:40:19.:40:22.

that Shadow Cabinet. He made an effort. There have been things that

:40:23.:40:26.

undermined that. The problem is when is the crisis point. There are

:40:27.:40:31.

undoubtedly MPs who want to do that. It is very possible that is a deke

:40:32.:40:38.

Khan could win the mayoral election. The demographics could work. And And

:40:39.:40:44.

Scotland, if that is a horror hoe for Labour, nobody will be

:40:45.:40:47.

surprised. There is blow that everybody will say the voters have

:40:48.:40:50.

spoken and we know this isn't going to work for 2020. That was Madame

:40:51.:40:57.

Mao's line last night. Otherwise to work for 2020. That was Madame

:40:58.:41:03.

known as Diane Abbott. She said May elections are important but they are

:41:04.:41:07.

not make or break. They might be horribly undermined. As we saw with

:41:08.:41:12.

Ukip they were expecting to do very well and were undermined.

:41:13.:41:14.

Ukip they were expecting to do very destabilising for a party. Does that

:41:15.:41:19.

wing of the party have to just accept it, or will they go? In terms

:41:20.:41:22.

of accept it, or will they go? In terms

:41:23.:41:27.

that has been going on for influencing and taking over parts of

:41:28.:41:30.

the Labour Party that could choose new candidates after boundary, is

:41:31.:41:34.

that how it will happen? The best option is for them to conciliate

:41:35.:41:40.

him, and deed with him n the process make him look weak and make the

:41:41.:41:46.

activists disaffected because he is moving to the centre, then they

:41:47.:41:47.

activists disaffected because he is could move against him on the ground

:41:48.:41:51.

he isn't competent and get a slightly left-wing leader.

:41:52.:41:55.

he isn't competent and get a tackle him head on he will gain and

:41:56.:41:58.

strengthen. Est talks about Syria, you voted against air strike, in

:41:59.:42:00.

line with Jeremy Corbyn but it was a you voted against air strike, in

:42:01.:42:04.

street. Do you think that there should be a free vote or other

:42:05.:42:08.

issues like Trident. I didn't vote in line with Jeremy Corbyn. I voted

:42:09.:42:13.

with my conscience, it was the most difficult decision I have made. It

:42:14.:42:16.

is not about changing your recycling from Monday to Thursday. This is

:42:17.:42:21.

about lives, this is about the feature of Syria, war, I thought

:42:22.:42:26.

long and hard about it. I didn't think I am voting against, it wasn't

:42:27.:42:29.

like that, I looked at the reasons David Cameron put forward and I

:42:30.:42:33.

didn't feel he had a compelling case, based on evidence. In terms of

:42:34.:42:39.

a free vote. Just imagine going back to your constituency and saying I

:42:40.:42:43.

voted for war because I was whipped to do so. I think it sounds

:42:44.:42:47.

ridiculous, I think you should have a free vote on something like this,

:42:48.:42:51.

not on everything but on Syria I agreed with the free vote. On other

:42:52.:42:54.

key issues like Trident? Trident is another one we will have to debate

:42:55.:42:59.

and see, but for example high speed rail 2 is one of those where I would

:43:00.:43:04.

like a free vote because I am going to vote against. You want free votes

:43:05.:43:08.

on a lot of issues not necessarily a matter of life and death. I have

:43:09.:43:13.

been an MP since May, not very long, for me a free vote does appeal. I

:43:14.:43:17.

don't know if it appeals to people who have been in politics for a long

:43:18.:43:23.

time, to me it does. Is that sustainable, when you are Her

:43:24.:43:26.

Majesties loyal opposition, but in the past we have expected, because

:43:27.:43:30.

of history and tradition, that parties are whipped a certain way,

:43:31.:43:33.

that leaders persuade their party, or most of then. I think it is

:43:34.:43:40.

sustainable. It is a perfectibly reasonable thing to have more free

:43:41.:43:44.

votes in parliament the, it will make it more difficult to govern and

:43:45.:43:49.

to govern party, but there is nothing wrong with it. One has to

:43:50.:43:52.

remember of course Jeremy Corbyn didn't want a free vote. One of the

:43:53.:43:57.

problems with the analysis is they want people to vote with their

:43:58.:44:01.

conscience and have free votes. On the other hand they want to vote

:44:02.:44:07.

with the membership. They clash. You select MEP Members of Parliament

:44:08.:44:11.

whose conscience is the same of the member, that leads you down only one

:44:12.:44:16.

route. What about the voting public, you touched on the elections next

:44:17.:44:20.

year, does Jeremy Corbyn have cut through with some of these remarks

:44:21.:44:25.

that have certainly been labelled in the media as tonne wise, rightly or

:44:26.:44:30.

wrongly. Things like shoot-to-kill, or Jihadi John. Is that the sort of

:44:31.:44:35.

thing that the public gets? I think from what I have heard from people

:44:36.:44:44.

who have been up to Oldham, not singing the National Anthem was one,

:44:45.:44:48.

shoot-to-kill was another. The other thing to remember is most people

:44:49.:44:51.

aren't that interested in politics, they don't have the pleasure of

:44:52.:44:55.

doing it full-time, but so my worry for what will happen over the next

:44:56.:44:59.

year is people will become board of the idea that Jeremy Corbyn is not a

:45:00.:45:04.

centrist leader, he doesn't have a broad appeal, that will become that

:45:05.:45:09.

is received wisdom. It doesn't stop it being true, however, Jeremy

:45:10.:45:13.

Corbyn has a great appeal to the Labour membership. Membership. It is

:45:14.:45:16.

yet to be proven he can build a winning majority, in Parliament.

:45:17.:45:20.

Christmas is all about overindulgence, so let's have

:45:21.:45:22.

another instalment of our festive moodbox with our top

:45:23.:45:27.

This time Dasher, Prancer and Dancer are asking whether it's been a good

:45:28.:45:34.

Do you think it's been a good year or a bad year

:45:35.:45:48.

I vote Conservative and I'm quite happy with a lot of the measures

:45:49.:45:55.

The Conservatives have they had a good year or a bad year?

:45:56.:46:11.

We've only been here for two months.

:46:12.:46:13.

We are facing redundancies so as far as I'm concerned it's bad

:46:14.:46:17.

I think maybe a good year but I think mainly

:46:18.:46:24.

because they surprised people at the start of the year and I don't

:46:25.:46:27.

think anybody thought they were going to have quite

:46:28.:46:29.

They still have obviously cuts to social security to carry out.

:46:30.:46:39.

And they've got the referendum and they've got the resurgent

:46:40.:46:42.

Labour Party, so they've got a lot on their plate.

:46:43.:46:49.

They won an election against all the odds.

:46:50.:46:51.

And the Labour Party is falling apart in front of its eyes,

:46:52.:46:54.

so I suspect the Conservatives are very happy at the moment.

:46:55.:46:56.

Scrooge, bah humbug, don't really care, not good for me.

:46:57.:46:59.

Would you say the Conservatives had a good year or a bad year.

:47:00.:47:02.

I hate Labour, let's put it that way.

:47:03.:47:11.

They got elected, so a good start, I suppose.

:47:12.:47:14.

A good year or a bad year for the Conservative party?

:47:15.:47:17.

Who has got the best Christmas jumper?

:47:18.:47:31.

No, this is a lady who expressed a view that she wanted me to pop it

:47:32.:47:48.

in because she's late for work.

:47:49.:47:49.

This is like a really rubbish version of Top Gear.

:47:50.:48:03.

Adam, Giles, my little Christmas elves, move aside

:48:04.:48:05.

Pretty 50-50 but actually just about a good year.

:48:06.:48:16.

And with us now the Tory MP, James Cleverley.

:48:17.:48:21.

Welcome to the programme. Most Tories will believe that had a

:48:22.:48:28.

pretty good year, 2015. Do you think next year will be so good? It's fair

:48:29.:48:33.

to say when you win a general election against expectations, it

:48:34.:48:36.

can be a good year. Next year will be a more complicated year. We are

:48:37.:48:42.

likely to have a referendum. Conservatives on both side about and

:48:43.:48:46.

that will make it interesting. There's a number of things which

:48:47.:48:49.

have not gone quite right and a number of things which could

:48:50.:48:54.

continue to go wrong in 2016. Tax credits is a huge U-turn. There's

:48:55.:48:58.

been the bullying issue at Tory Central office. The House of Lords,

:48:59.:49:05.

do keep on losing there. You have the eager negotiations. Syria is an

:49:06.:49:08.

unfinished story and we have no idea how that could end. And he throw,

:49:09.:49:14.

not exactly the smack of firm government. Anyone that thought

:49:15.:49:21.

running a government with a microscopically small majority was

:49:22.:49:24.

going to be easy or getting business to the House of Lords was going to

:49:25.:49:27.

be easy needed their bumps felt, quite frankly. But actually,

:49:28.:49:36.

certainly in terms of the government side of the list, I think we are

:49:37.:49:39.

still making good progress even though there have been bumps on the

:49:40.:49:42.

road and on the internal party matters, it's always difficult. I

:49:43.:49:46.

think the party leadership is getting ahead of that now. Danny,

:49:47.:49:53.

what is the risk of the Tories ripping themselves apart over Europe

:49:54.:49:57.

next year? Assuming the referendum next year. Do you think, there will

:49:58.:50:03.

be divisions obviously, Mr Cameron will still manage to keep the show

:50:04.:50:07.

on the road? The danger will come after the European referendum

:50:08.:50:12.

regardless of the result. If David Cameron wins the referendum and

:50:13.:50:20.

decides to be on the main side, the people on the Leeds side may have

:50:21.:50:23.

more of a split and obviously, if you were to lose the referendum

:50:24.:50:27.

having recommended it, you would have a serious problem. His

:50:28.:50:32.

leadership would be on the line is prime and stuff. Yes, I would think

:50:33.:50:37.

so. It could be very difficult but in advance of it, during it, the

:50:38.:50:42.

referendum itself will mean that it won't cause a huge problem. That was

:50:43.:50:46.

one reason why David Cameron decided to have one. If he was to come back

:50:47.:50:58.

and get most of what he's looking for, and there was some kind of

:50:59.:51:03.

agreement on the migration issue, do you think he could carry the

:51:04.:51:10.

Parliamentary party on that? Some people in the party who are going to

:51:11.:51:14.

campaign to leave come what may and there are some people who will stay

:51:15.:51:17.

come what may. A lot of people in the middle are willing to see what

:51:18.:51:23.

comes back with. I think the centre of gravity is probably towards the

:51:24.:51:31.

remain but I think there is a very big majority of Conservative MPs who

:51:32.:51:34.

will campaign to leave. Do you think in the black to abandon the

:51:35.:51:41.

campaign, collective responsibility? He will have to let Eurosceptic

:51:42.:51:44.

ministers go their own way as Harold Wilson did. I think there is a

:51:45.:51:49.

numbers issue there. We have the slots of government which need to be

:51:50.:51:53.

filled. We have a relatively modest Parliamentary party and by the time

:51:54.:51:59.

you take people on the wrong side of referendum campaign, you're not

:52:00.:52:03.

going to have people spare. It'll be the pragmatic thing to do and,

:52:04.:52:06.

whilst this is a really important issue, it's not the only issue we've

:52:07.:52:10.

got to worry about. There could be many other issues too. How serious

:52:11.:52:16.

is this bullying scandal among what was the youth wing of the

:52:17.:52:22.

Conservative Party but it seems to go on, involving Grant Shapps

:52:23.:52:28.

resigning, Andrew Feldman, the existing chairman, his involvement

:52:29.:52:33.

as well. Hugely significant as regards the people involved and the

:52:34.:52:38.

activities of the pace. By the next general election, it will not

:52:39.:52:39.

feature politically in the general election, it will not

:52:40.:52:42.

all in my opinion but that does not mean to

:52:43.:52:49.

all in my opinion but that does not and important I suspect in

:52:50.:52:53.

all in my opinion but that does not there will be some serious

:52:54.:52:55.

allegations revealed by the individuals involved with it

:52:56.:52:56.

directly. It will not be so serious individuals involved with it

:52:57.:53:05.

for people in the indirect socialised with it. Grant Shapps has

:53:06.:53:07.

already resigned so it serious enough.

:53:08.:53:10.

already resigned so it serious they suddenly have

:53:11.:53:16.

already resigned so it serious Telford, Lucy Allen,

:53:17.:53:19.

already resigned so it serious manufactured a death threat, I think

:53:20.:53:24.

it was, on twitter. She said she conflated two e-mails. If she wants

:53:25.:53:29.

to see death threats, she should look after my twitter, she wouldn't

:53:30.:53:34.

have do manufacture them. Now there is a bullying story that we have

:53:35.:53:38.

these recordings in the London standard

:53:39.:53:42.

these recordings in the London messages. That

:53:43.:53:47.

these recordings in the London taken particularly seriously

:53:48.:53:48.

these recordings in the London of the other allegation. It is also

:53:49.:53:52.

the case by the way what you said about social media, the whole

:53:53.:53:54.

question of about social media, the whole

:53:55.:53:59.

media will become a story this year and even bigger and how you do that

:54:00.:54:06.

will become more and more. . . She's now bullying on old-fashioned voice

:54:07.:54:09.

mail. It certainly sounds like an important issue to investigate, yes.

:54:10.:54:15.

We tried to contact her this morning but we could not get hold of her. If

:54:16.:54:19.

you would like to give her side of the story on this programme in

:54:20.:54:22.

January, we would be very accommodating. Has it got

:54:23.:54:28.

significance beyond the Tory party? It is a juicy juicy story but it's

:54:29.:54:34.

about a lot of people mostly but not heard of. Yes, Jeremy Corbyn talks

:54:35.:54:41.

about the right-wing press and they have pursued and followed the story

:54:42.:54:47.

even though it's extremely inconvenient for David Cameron

:54:48.:54:50.

because Lord Feldman is a close friend of his. All parties have

:54:51.:54:55.

these problems, people care about small things and get worked up about

:54:56.:54:58.

them. Labour has its own problems and allegations of abuse some SNP

:54:59.:55:11.

MPs are overenthusiastic with their tweets. We have to leave it there.

:55:12.:55:13.

Merry Christmas to you. Now we like to think

:55:14.:55:16.

that the Daily Politics has launched Who can forget David Cameron's

:55:17.:55:18.

Big Board extravaganza, or George Osborne's special slot,

:55:19.:55:21.

Parliamentary Doctor? He advised people how to avoid tax.

:55:22.:55:30.

HMRC. And we're sure this Secret Santa

:55:31.:55:33.

appearance eventually propelled one backbench Labour MP

:55:34.:55:36.

onto much greater things. The first clue is that

:55:37.:55:38.

he's a Labour MP. He's been a member of Parliament

:55:39.:55:51.

since 1983 for the smallest He was one of just 12 Labour

:55:52.:55:54.

MPs to back Plaid Cymru in the Scottish National Party's

:55:55.:56:03.

call for an enquiry into the war Finally, he chairs the Parliamentary

:56:04.:56:06.

wing of CND and described Gordon Brown's backing

:56:07.:56:18.

for Trident as sad and upset. Du think that helped him become

:56:19.:56:43.

Labour leader? Yes,. Different year, 2015.

:56:44.:56:44.

The Daily Politics Secret Santa 2015.

:56:45.:56:50.

Welcome. Now you couldn't guess who it was at the beginning, have a go

:56:51.:57:08.

now. Who do you think it is? This MP has worked as a bus conductor. A

:57:09.:57:16.

London MP. A season-ticket holder. A season-ticket holder at Fulham FC.

:57:17.:57:20.

Another of his passions of collecting comics. He was first

:57:21.:57:23.

elected in the Blair landslide of 1997. Have a guess. I resolved my

:57:24.:57:30.

watch that clip of Jeremy Corbyn I would never guess. This is like

:57:31.:57:34.

asking how old someone looks. The potential for offence. Don't worry

:57:35.:57:38.

this London MP is very difficult to offend. I'm refusing. He won the

:57:39.:57:47.

presidency of the student union LSE and defeated his rival, Danny

:57:48.:57:53.

Filkins dying. I recognise him. Steve Pound. It is Stephen Pound.

:57:54.:57:58.

You can reveal yourself within reason. You can take it off. You are

:57:59.:58:07.

sweltering, I know. Have you got any presence? There he is, I should

:58:08.:58:13.

stay. It is Stephen Pound. It's not the real Santa Claus. I hope no

:58:14.:58:19.

children are watching. What gave it away? Even from the beard, the nose,

:58:20.:58:30.

I know him. Sorry. You didn't disguise yourself well enough. Had

:58:31.:58:35.

about any presence for us? Indeed I have and well done Finkelstein. I

:58:36.:58:40.

have a little something in my sack for you. Danny, I should've given as

:58:41.:58:52.

two years ago. The sack? Andrew, a front bench opposition MP could not

:58:53.:58:58.

get you anything. That's the quality... He has forgotten his

:58:59.:59:06.

lines. I have something rather special for you. That sounds

:59:07.:59:13.

ominous. Shall I whip it out? Grope around in there. Thank you very

:59:14.:59:25.

much. I know what this is. Sorry, I have got to say goodbye. Happy

:59:26.:59:26.

Christmas. A happy Christmas and a peaceful

:59:27.:59:28.

and joyous New Year to you all. It cannot be true, Holmes!

:59:29.:59:31.

It cannot!

:59:32.:59:50.

The final Daily Politics of 2015 with Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn, including the latest news from the EU Summit in Brussels and a look back at the year in politics with Ukip leader Nigel Farage, Labour's Tulip Siddiq, Conservative MP James Cleverly and John Nicholson from the SNP. Also, find out who is this year's Daily Politics Secret Santa. With Jo and Andrew throughout the programme are Helen Lewis from the New Statesman and Danny Finkelstein from The Times.


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