Browse content similar to 12/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:38. | |
Thousands of junior doctors go on strike across England | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
in their dispute over a new contract despite a last-minute plea | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
from the Prime Minister to call off the action. | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
At least ten people are dead, following another suspected suicide | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
We'll have the latest. likely that the so-called | :00:54. | :01:04. | |
MPs debate the Housing Bill - which ministers say will help | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
thousands of young people get on the housing ladder. | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
Labour say the plan could benefit foreign investors | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
And should England have an official national anthem? | :01:12. | :01:30. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the whole | :01:31. | :01:40. | |
of the programme today is the Times columnist, | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
First, let's get the latest on the bomb attack in Istanbul. | :01:43. | :01:53. | |
We can talk to our correspondent there, | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
I can tell you that the Foreign Secretary, Philip | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
Hammond, said the explosion in Istanbul hit a tourist area of the | :02:02. | :02:09. | |
city. They are currently seeking to verify if any British nationals are | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
involved and we will -- and they will update the House of Commons if | :02:15. | :02:19. | |
there is more news in the next hour. Can you give us the latest? This is | :02:20. | :02:31. | |
where a few hours earlier the Windows of building surrounded me | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
were rattled. A number of tourists, including German tourists, according | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
to the news agency, were killed. It is not believed at this point in | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
time that British tourists were among those killed. We are still | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
waiting for full information. The Turkish president has condemned this | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
attack. Nobody then has yet actually claimed | :02:52. | :03:07. | |
responsibility. These are officials in Turkey. It is not that many | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
months after Ankara suffered the bomb attack which killed up to 100 | :03:13. | :03:21. | |
people. I think 97 people were killed in Ankara. That was carried | :03:22. | :03:29. | |
out by Isis. No one is in doubt about that. This is a much smaller | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
attack. There is speculation this is another kind of Islamist, or | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
somebody freelancing. It could be Isis. They are under a lot of | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
pressure was they have lost territory in Iraq and Syria. The | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
Turkish authorities, after tolerating Isis for a long time have | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
now thrown themselves into the fight against the so-called Islamic State. | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
Though getting reports that Turkish authorities are trying to organise a | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
new offensive with some of the proxy groups they help to run and fund | :03:59. | :04:08. | |
inside Syria. It would not be surprising to learn that might have | :04:09. | :04:16. | |
consequences here in Turkey. Do think Turkey will have more of these | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
sorts of attacks, even though we do not know for sure who is behind this | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
one? Turkey is playing a very complex game. As Paul said, they | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
have backed Islamic State in the past and they are now against it. | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
They are backing Islamist who are against President Assad in Syria. | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
There is no shortage of people who might be inspired to attack Turkey | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
for a whole variety of reasons on the grounds that my enemy's enemy is | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
sometimes my friend, sometimes my enemy's enemy is my enemy. They | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
occupy a very key geographical position in terms of their border | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
with Syria, their relationship, a bad one with Kurds and Kurdish | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
fighters also on their border, who had been seen as being helpful to | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
the coalition in terms of fighting Islamic State. They have been seen | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
to be helpful. Turkey is a Nato member. This is extremely alarming. | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
Under the president Turkey has become more Islamist. They are | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
supporting Islamist in Syria and they are an Islamist regime. The | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
fact they may have been targeted by Islamist 's does not alter the fact | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
that the West is in alliance with a regime which is fundamentally not | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
friendly to it. Also, of course, we have these very distressing stories. | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
Irish or they are happening right across Syria, of series and towns | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
where people are literally starving to death. -- I am sure they are | :05:49. | :05:54. | |
happening. It is a dreadful humanitarian catastrophe. If one | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
wants to end the dreadful humanitarian catastrophe of Syria, | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
one has two remove the Islamic Republic | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
one has two remove the Islamic over the whole series of | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
What has David Cameron said every child needs? | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
Thousands of junior doctors across England are striking today, | :06:19. | :06:38. | |
in the latest stage of their dispute with the Government over | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Doctors are providing emergency cover, but around 4,000 | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
routine treatments have been postponed. | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
The Health Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, spoke briefly to journalists | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
Do your proposals threaten the future of the NHS? | :06:51. | :06:59. | |
Is there enough money to create a 24/7 NHS? | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
What is your message to junior doctors? | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
And our assistant political editor, Norman Smith, is outside | :07:11. | :07:18. | |
St Thomas's Hospital in Central London. | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
The first strike in 40 years for junior doctors, how has it come to | :07:26. | :07:33. | |
this? A good question. It has been going on for years, since 2012. The | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
difficulty is simply this. Both sides seem to be talking past each | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
other. They are not on the same page. The Government said, we have a | :07:43. | :07:48. | |
manifest a mandate to introduce a 24-hour NHS. This is what the | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
changes are about. Junior doctors say, we're already working 24-hour | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
NHS. The problem at the weekends is not junior doctors, it is | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
consultants. The Government is saying, OK, we are making you a very | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
good payoff. We are increasing a paid by 11%. 75% of junior doctors, | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
they say, will be better off. The BMA says absolutely not. Junior | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
doctors will lose something like 30% of their pay. You get the sense that | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
both sides are nowhere near reaching any sort of deal. They have been to | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
ACAS and no deal has been reached. More strikes are planned. The factor | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
that will break this dispute is not the merits of the arguments on | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
either side but public opinion. If public opinion sways heavily one | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
side or the other, I suspect that will determine the outcome of this | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
dispute. That, in your mind, will implement government strategy. -- | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
influence. Jeremy Hunt has been criticised for mishandling this | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
dispute. What is the strategy today by the Government? The strategy | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
today is kind of to hide under the table and say nothing. We saw from | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
Jeremy had they do not want to have their faces plastered on the | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
television screen. Roughly basic logic would suggest if you have a | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
politician and a junior doctor on the television screen at the same | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
time, he would use in the bars with? Probably the junior doctor. Maybe we | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
put doctors up on a pedestal and maybe the public is becoming jaded | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
about all of this because they would rather like a 24-hour NHS. They | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
would like to feel confident about going into hospital at the weekend. | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
They are suffering pretty tough times. Junior doctors are getting | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
11%, say the Government. There is a view in government circles that if | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
these disputes go on and we do move to the third set of strikes that | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
will involve accident and emergency departments and maybe public opinion | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
will shift and the BMA will find itself out on a limb. That will | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
slightly define conventional logic. Normally we assume sympathy would | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
lie with the doctors, but make -- but maybe not if this drags on. | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
Let's talk now to our correspondent, Phil Mackie, who's outside | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
the Sandwell hospital in West Bromwich. | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
How under pressure are services there? Extremely so. They have | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
declared a level for incident within this draft. That means they are | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
really struggling to discharge patients will they have had | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
exceptional demand. They have too many people in and they cannot get | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
them out in time. They have declared a level for incident. They have | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
asked the striking junior doctors to come back in. The junior doctors | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
have not left the picket line and they are continuing to protest and | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
getting a lot of support from people driving by. What they have said if | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
their understanding of the strike agreement would be they would go | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
back in for a level five incident, which. Level four is something they | :11:02. | :11:03. | |
would experience slightly more often and it is something they have known | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
about, they say, in terms of trust management for some time and they | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
are not going in. There are junior doctors providing emergency cover, | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
as they ordinarily would do. One of the people striking here today said | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
this was essentially exactly the same situation as it was over | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
Christmas and New Year at this hospital and management, they say, | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
did not choose to declare a level for incident on that occasion. | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
Clearly the stakes are high and it seems to be escalating, and maybe we | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
will see that across the country. At the moment, polls show there are | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
high levels of public support. Do you have any evidence of that | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
waning? I have not seen anything myself. It is very difficult in a | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
hospital circumstance. People are coming and going. Even members of | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
the public probably visiting a relative or have their own need to | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
be in the hospital and they tend to be quite sympathetic. A lady passed | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
me half an hour ago with an arm in a sling. She was due in Tamara and she | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
said if it had been today, she would not have minded because she is | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
giving the junior doctors full backing. You get lots of cars coming | :12:13. | :12:19. | |
past, beeping their horns and waving in support. There is no scientific | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
way of working this out. The survey that suggests that two thirds of | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
people behind the doctors broadly and unscientific leave that is about | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
what I would think is the case here standing in West Bromwich. Thank you | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
very much. And I'm joined now by | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
the Conservative MP and member of the Health Select Committee, | :12:38. | :12:39. | |
Dr James Davies, and by Dr Tom Dolphin, a member | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
of the BMA's Consultants Committee and a former chair of their | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
Junior Doctors Committee. And I should say that | :12:45. | :12:46. | |
no Health Minister was Obviously, following the line of | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
hiding beneath the table when it comes to this, as our correspondent | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
says. Let's pick up the incident in Sandwell at the hospital, where they | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
have declared a level for incident. Does that make you feel bad? Nobody | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
wanted to take strike action today but we have been forced into it by | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
the Government. With incidents like they declared in Sandwell, there is | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
a process for getting junior doctors back into the hostel if there is a | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
major incident. That was a significant, unpredicted event that | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
would occur. That is the term that was used at the time. If there is a | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
major incident, junior doctors will flood back into the hospital, let's | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
be clear about this. Not at this level. Doctors across the country -- | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
hospitals across the country have been running at these levels for a | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
long time. It is nothing new. Nothing has changed today. There is | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
no difference between this and what happened over the Christmas | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
holidays. How has the Government let this come to a situation where we | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
have junior doctors for the first time in 40 years ago forming support | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
by the doctors who returned the strike ballot in favour of the | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
strike, are all wrong? I think they have been misled. I am a BMA member | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
and GP is my background. It is something I had a very open mind | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
over as the issue blew up really. Looking into the fine detail of it, | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
I have to say that the Government has addressed the vast majority of | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
the concerns that have been put forward. Right. But to admit they | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
have not addressed all of them. There are some issues over Saturday | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
pay, in particular. The Government is looking about bringing about a | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
seven-day NHS. This is where discussions are needed. I think | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
strike action is a step too far in the circumstances. Have you been | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
misled by the BMA? Have you been misled by anyone? The Government is | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
trying to put across its position. We cannot mislead junior doctors. | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
They are bright and intelligent people. The applet evidence in front | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
of them and 98% have rejected the offer as unsafe. Isn't that just | :15:08. | :15:14. | |
behind -- like hiding behind an excuse? There are a lot of junior | :15:15. | :15:21. | |
doctors and it seems that junior doctors think the hours they are | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
being asked to work will be more restrictive and the safeguards are | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
not robust enough. They are protecting the future of doctors | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
working practices. Do you add me to the governor has not addressed back | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
key issue? -- the Government has not addressed back key issue. Also, the | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
number of nights on call consecutively. It is about the | :15:49. | :15:49. | |
safeguards. They don't trust the Government to | :15:50. | :16:01. | |
hold by their claim that hours will be restricted but there are no | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
safeguards to restrict it. One of the concerns was fines were being | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
removed from hospitals... So no incentive there... But Government's | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
latest proposals do address that in terms of fines being levied and put | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
into a part and underseen by a guardian who will use that for | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
educational purposes and managing of the interests of junior doctors. So, | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
in the end, the Government has met pretty well every single concern by | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
June area doctors and it is a negotiation and there hasn't been | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
any compromise by June area doctors in this negotiation. -- by junior | :16:36. | :16:41. | |
doctors. We have moved a significant distance from starting position. We | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
are keen to negotiate. In what way have you moved? As far as I can see | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
you haven't at all With we are very keen to be negotiate. There was to | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
be a strike in December. We went back to asas, we didn't want to | :16:59. | :17:04. | |
strike. There was no movement from the Government side from the | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
discussions in ACAS. They don't address the safety issues. Since the | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
strike mandate went ahead, there have been changes, though, haven't | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
there? There has been an offer by the Government, certain sli on pay | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
and doctors keep saying it is not about pay. So today, what is it that | :17:20. | :17:26. | |
the Government can offer you that would mean you wouldn't strike in | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
future weeks? It is a complex contract. I can't boil it down N | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
generality it has to be a safe contract. -- in generality. That | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
doesn't have doctors' hours increasing again. Again That's | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
nebulus. But what they are putting on the table doesn't gar be a tee | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
the hours will be safe and that they won't increase again. -- guarantee. | :17:50. | :17:53. | |
When you look at the detail of how what is on paper will be enforced, | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
there is nothing to give it teeth. That's what worries us. Principally, | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
should doctors be going on strike? Let's leave the whys and wherefors. | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
They have a right to strike. Personally I believe doctors should | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
not go on strike, ever. Whatever the circumstances, however much pressure | :18:13. | :18:14. | |
they are put under? Medicine is a vocation. They should not be | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
behaving that they are unionised workers. The BMA... Why not? Because | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
they are responsible for patient safety. The word "safety" is used | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
the whole time. I'm prepared to believe the Government has been bone | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
headed and bad and a hopeless negotiate o. Let's assume that's the | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
case. It is still the case that, you know, the doctors are saying it is | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
all about safety. This is really, this really sticks in the crew | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
because whether or not this -- craw. Whether or not the sandwell thing is | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
manufactured or no. You cannot have doctors taking strike without | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
imperilling patients. At the least putting them at disadvantage. At | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
wost xree miesing safety. -- at worst, compromising safety. Doctors | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
may vo a good point over safety but -- may have a good point. But | :19:09. | :19:11. | |
ultimately they are the -- may have a good point. But | :19:12. | :19:13. | |
that's letting the the hook because they are relying on | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
the fact that doctors will feel so the fact that doctors will feel so | :19:19. | :19:20. | |
bad. What is more important, patient lives or sticking the Government | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
bad. What is more important, patient The arrangement we have made are to | :19:26. | :19:26. | |
keep patients safe today and The arrangement we have made are to | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
safe in the long term. Today The arrangement we have made are to | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
colleagues of mine and other senior doctors covering to make sure urgent | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
patients get seen. If people are worried are stick, they should go to | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
hospital, they will get the care they need. What about the | :19:46. | :19:53. | |
Government. The Government should be concerned about patient safety, or | :19:54. | :19:58. | |
any future strike, where there may not be any emergency cover. Has | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
Jeremy Hunt handled this well? The riesh u is about a new contract to | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
improve patient safety. I'm talking about the language used, about the | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
breakdown of trust. Has has Jeremy Hunt handled that well? I think he | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
has done all he can from what I have seen. I think that there are | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
underlying issue and I know this from having worked from ape last | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
year as a doctor in temples how doctors and the medical protesting | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
feel. -- in terms of how doctors and the medical profession feel, in | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
terms of their work and values, that we go out of our way to prove how | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
hard the medical profession does work and they are valued. The | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
reality is there is a brain drain of junior doctors. The Health Select | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
Committee has said that junior doctors are leaving because they | :20:49. | :20:50. | |
don't think there is a few fewer for them here. That's what I'm talking B | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
I don't think it is about this contract per se. That issue was in | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
place prior to this and it has, to some extent framed the whole debate. | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
What about accusations that it is being exploited, this strike by more | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
militant tendencies? Do you think it has been hijacked? I don't think | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
think so. We have a clear mandate. 98% of junior doctors supported the | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
ak. The -- this action. The entire profession shined the action. -- | :21:22. | :21:28. | |
supported the action. The Government's plans for more | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
affordable housing - and a new right to buy for housing | :21:32. | :21:33. | |
association tenants - are being debated in | :21:34. | :21:35. | |
the House of Commons today. Ministers say the schemes | :21:36. | :21:37. | |
will benefit thousands of young people looking to get | :21:38. | :21:39. | |
on the housing ladder. Labour say it could benefit foreign | :21:40. | :21:41. | |
investors and buy-to-let landlords The Conservatives want to get | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
building and put more people onto the housing ladder, | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
a key pledge in their manifesto, and they hope to have | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
1 million new homes by 2020. Under the proposals, | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
starter homes would be sold to first time buyers under 40 at a discount | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
of at least 20% on properties worth There would be an an obligation | :21:57. | :21:59. | |
for all planning authorities to build more new homes | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
and expensive council houses It will be easier to build | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
on brownfield sites and housing association tenants will be given | :22:10. | :22:19. | |
the right to buy their homes. There will be measures to ensure | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
those in social housing on higher incomes pay more in rent | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
and councils will be given the power to blacklist or even | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
ban rogue landlords. The plan was outlined | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
by George Osborne in his spending Today, we set out our bold plan | :22:32. | :22:33. | |
to back families who aspire First, I'm doubling | :22:34. | :22:40. | |
the housing budget. And we will deliver, | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
with Government help, 400,000 affordable new homes | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
by the end of the decade. And "affordable" means not just | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
affordable to rent but affordable That is the biggest house-building | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
programme by any government We've been joined by Labour's Shadow | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
Housing Minister John Healey and the Conservative | :23:05. | :23:14. | |
MP, Chris Philps. And I should say that no government | :23:15. | :23:16. | |
minister was available This bill broadens the definition of | :23:17. | :23:30. | |
affordable housing to include starter homes costing up to ?450,000 | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
in London. How can a property costing 17 times the average UK | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
salary be classed, in anyone's mind as "affordable"? The point is the | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
maximum price is ?450,000. The hope is there will be many homes to buy | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
much less than that and the 20% discount is itself a welcome step. I | :23:50. | :23:53. | |
would also say, with Government schemes like help to buy, young | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
first-time buyers can now borrow up to 95% of that homes' value. Is that | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
responsible after the crash? It is. It helps people on to the housing | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
ladder, and realise their dream. 95%. The deposit is only ?22,000 h | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
these are affordable. Getting people on the ladder is a good step. You | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
say up to ?450,000. You hope would be lower. How much lower? What would | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
you say is affordable? It depends on people's personal circumstances and | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
income and whether there is one or two earners in the household. Let's | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
not forget, outside London, which is of course 80% or 85 of the country | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
it is up to ?250,000. These are welcome steps to help young first | :24:38. | :24:40. | |
time buyers get on to the housing ladder. I accept there is a massive | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
difference between London and south-east and other parts of the | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
country but starter homes will be sold at a 20% discount to first time | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
buyers under the age of 40 but according to the housing charity, | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
Shelter, by 2020, someone trying to buy a starter home in London will | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
need an annual Sal riff ?77,000 and a deposit of ?98,000. When you say | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
it has to be "affordable" and depends on people's incomes. It is | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
only for the rich. I don't accept the analysis. You don't accept that? | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
No, they ignore the help to buy scheme. The deposit isn't that much, | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
it is lower, ?22,500. And they ignore the fact that many people are | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
couples, you look at the household income, not individual income. And | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
thirdly it ignores the fact that ?450,000 is maximum. I would expect | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
many developers, particularly housing associations, who are | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
increasingly building houses to rent will have units in London far less | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
than ?450,000. This is a positive step. It'll help some, even if it | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
seems on the face of it, expensive for a lot of people. We back the | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
principle of starter homes but we want them to work for ordinary | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
people on ordinary incomes and work better which is why we tabled an | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
amendment to make them more affordable to people on modest | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
incomes. There is a massive gap between affordable homes, and what | :26:06. | :26:10. | |
Chris is talking about. Fist, you set what is affordable as a sensible | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
limit. And secondly, this was our argument, if the takss payer is | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
putting public -- taxpayer. Into discounts, that should stay on the | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
shelf and help future first time buyers to keep the price downs. Let | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
me help you on the figures. Croydon, yu average starter home would be | :26:33. | :26:39. | |
area dour average would be ?300,000. You need an income of ?64,000. You | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
still need help with your deposit. The point about starter homes taken | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
in their own terms, is they will be a huge letdown for many young people | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
and ordinary families that want to be able to buy their first home will | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
be thwarted by the terms of the scheme. You are not saying not do | :27:01. | :27:02. | |
anything. The problem with your analysis is people will think - is | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
Labour not going to do anything to help people on starter homes? This | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
is a big discount at 20%, it will help a group of people and London | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
isn't the only place we are talking about. If this was a scheme that | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
worked better, along the lines we have been proposing and I hope the | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
Lords will take a look at, alongside the increase in the affordable homes | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
to rent and buy that are in place at the moment but will get choked off | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
by the provision for this bill, then we will be looking at a sensible | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
housing policy which starts to meet the need for new homes of all types | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
all across the country. That won't happen as a result of the bill we | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
are discussing this afternoon in the Commons. Housing has long been a | :27:42. | :27:43. | |
massive problem for governments over the decades. We are not getting to | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
the point where it looks as if, finally, the parties have decided | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
something has to be done. Do you think these policies will make an | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
enormous amount of difference to people who literally will not be | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
able to afford to buy their own home and is it desirable for them to? | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
Well, something has to be done. I think this is something that should | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
not be done. I think it is the wrong policy. It seems to me that this | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
bill is very much driven by ideology, the ideology that says - | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
home-ownership good, renting, council ownership, bad. Now I agree, | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
home-ownership is good t has many advantages. Those who can afford a | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
buy their own homes should be allowed and encouraged to do so. I'm | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
in favour of that. But the bottom line is the reason we have social | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
housing or council housing is that there are unfortune outly many | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
people and -- unfortunately many people and will always be will, many | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
people who can't afford to get on to the housing ladder. What worries me | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
about this bill is that it is all about home-ownership. Not a | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
comprehensive housing strategy for ever, including those who can and | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
can't afford to buy. -- for everybody. To be clear this, bill | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
will be the death nail that of genuine affordable housing to rent | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
and buy independent experts say over the next five years we are set to | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
lose 180,000. It started with Labour, far fewer council homes | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
under Labour, too. Directly as a result of the bill, before | :29:13. | :29:14. | |
Parliament at the moment. But isn't it true that there will be far fewer | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
council homes and social housing available? No, I don't accept that. | :29:19. | :29:26. | |
Under five years of Government Government we built more -- | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
Conservative Government, we built more than the previous Labour | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
Government. Is that the case? It is. Hang on, let me answer the question. | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
Eight out of ten of those new council homes built in the last five | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
years were commissioned by Labour, funded by Labour when I was the | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
Labour Housing Minister. You inherited a programme you started | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
and now you have stopped it. Do you support that programme, Chris? In | :29:51. | :29:52. | |
your mind, talking about support that programme, Chris? In | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
is it right, should there be more council homes and social housing? | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
is it right, should there be more thereby who are social housing and a | :30:04. | :30:04. | |
focus on council thereby who are social housing and a | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
Government and Mayor thereby who are social housing and a | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
homes over the last five years, and that should continue. One of the | :30:13. | :30:15. | |
problems we have in the country is we are not building enough | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
problems we have in the country is before we start arguing about social | :30:19. | :30:20. | |
who are starter homes, we need to build who are homes, | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
who are starter homes, we need to the heart of the bill is a plan to | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
build more homes on brow field loan to alleviate the problems we are | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
talking about. -- brownfield land. 86% of our fellow citizens aspire to | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
own their own home 86% of our fellow citizens aspire to | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
helps them realise that dream. Not all, 86% want to own their own | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
homes. But it is about reality. What I'm saying is you wouldn't quite | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
answer whether you there there should be more focus on council | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
homes and social housing. What about the private rental sector? You say | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
it is desirable people aspire to own their own homes. It is easy for | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
people who have their own homes to say people | :31:00. | :30:59. | |
people who have their own homes to affordable rental sector but what is | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
The sector is on its own already renting sector? Force for | :31:08. | :31:18. | |
The sector is on its own already burgeoning. People cannot | :31:19. | :31:19. | |
The sector is on its own already buy. That is precisely the problem. | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
It is a buy. That is precisely the problem. | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
attempts to address, partly by buy. That is precisely the problem. | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
building more homes and secondly by making home ownership more | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
accessible with things like starter homes. The local Government | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
Association revealed 475,000 homes have been given planning permission. | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
That is an all-time record. You must say the Government has done | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
something right there. There are permissions in place. We want to see | :31:51. | :31:53. | |
the builders building those homes. Above all, as I said earlier, we | :31:54. | :31:56. | |
have to have Above all, as I said earlier, we | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
which are genuinely affordable to rent and buy. The extreme emphasis | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
on starter homes which will be beyond the reach of many young | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
people, simple, exclusive emphasis, which is political and not good | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
housing policy. It is not good economic. It will prove, in my view, | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
to be bad politics as well. It is shutting out the range of housing | :32:23. | :32:33. | |
need we need across the board. Uses plea -- view simply would not be | :32:34. | :32:40. | |
able to support the bill. I do not think it well. In no way does this | :32:41. | :32:48. | |
attack affordable homes to rent. Also starter homes. Over the last | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
ten or 20 years, affordable homes have mostly been defined as homes to | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
rent, rather than homes to buy. It adds in homes to buy to the | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
affordable mix. That is a good thing. Can I ask you about something | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
hours, the PLP meeting last month? What is the timetable for neighbour | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
having policy on Trident? The principal place where Labour Party | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
policy is made is a Labour Party conference. That seems to be the | :33:20. | :33:22. | |
timescale the review will need to work to. It will be a strategic | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
security and defence review, which is right. Trident Bob be a part of | :33:29. | :33:36. | |
that. It is about Britain's DM security in the world. -- will be a | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
part. You do not think there will be a decision before the autumn? That | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
is my understanding. It is the briefing we had. The country needs | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
that sort of debate. Our nuclear capability is a part of that. Is | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
your understanding them not be any changes to the way that policies | :34:00. | :34:04. | |
actually devised? No change in the way Labour makes its party policy? | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
No, the way the Labour Party makes its policy is finalised and done... | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
That will not change? At the Labour Party conference. You asked about | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
the meeting of Labour MPs last night but this is a really important | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
review. It is important for the Labour Party are really important | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
for Britain that we take that proper review, which is about our long-term | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
security and our long-term role in the world. Our nuclear capability | :34:33. | :34:35. | |
needs to be a part of that. I am strongly behind de-escalation and | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
disarmament but I am not the unilateralist. This is a debate this | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
country has to have, especially with the escalating costs of Trident. | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
How can we stop young British Muslims becoming radicalised | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
In his speech to the Conservative Party conference last autumn, | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
David Cameron said he wanted an end to what he called the "passive | :34:58. | :35:00. | |
In our country, there are some children who spend several hours | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
Let me be clear, there is nothing wrong with | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
children learning about their faith, whether it is in a madrassa, | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
a Sunday school, or a Jewish yeshiva. | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
But in some madrassas, we have children | :35:18. | :35:19. | |
being taught that they should not mix with people of other religions. | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
Being beaten, swallowing conspiracy theories about Jewish people. | :35:23. | :35:25. | |
These children should be having their | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
minds opened and their minds broadened, not having their heads | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
filled with poison and their hearts filled with hate. | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
If an institution is teaching children intensively, | :35:35. | :35:46. | |
whatever its religion, we will, like any other school, | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
make it register so it can be inspected. | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
And be in no doubt, if you are teaching intolerance, | :35:54. | :35:57. | |
This afternoon, the Home Affairs Select Committee will take evidence | :35:58. | :36:05. | |
on this issue from a number of people, | :36:06. | :36:07. | |
including the Secretary of the Bradford Council for Mosques, | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
Do you agree with the Prime Minister that there is a problem in the first | :36:11. | :36:24. | |
place? We agree there are problems within the Muslim community but | :36:25. | :36:26. | |
radicalisation, as the Prime Minister is setting out in his | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
speech basically we have evidence of that. No evidence at all? No | :36:31. | :36:36. | |
evidence that radicalisation is taking place in mosques. What have | :36:37. | :36:47. | |
you done to investigate? Since the consultation paper came out, we have | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
visited 14 councils for mosques across the country, in particular in | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
the north. We find there is already safeguarding and policies in place, | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
working with the local authority and the counterterrorism bill that is | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
all ready in place that does look at that. I put to you it is not | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
working. It is saying headlines of young people on almost a daily, | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
weekly basis, they are being radicalised and they are being drawn | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
to make a journey to war-torn Syria. The most infamous example is the | :37:21. | :37:27. | |
three teenage girls. Do you at Mick has not worked? We admit there is a | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
problem. -- at admit it has not worked. It is not in a mosque, a | :37:35. | :37:43. | |
madrassa, a church or a synagogue. Family setting, elsewhere, community | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
settings, college campuses. What do you say in response to that | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
evidence? There is a problem with language that is what we mean by | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
radicalisation and extremism. If by radicalisation in you mean | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
recruiting people to the jihad. Major sources of this are on social | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
media. If you think that radicalisation in terms of jihadi | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
recruitment is something which is nurtured by a kind of toxic mix of | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
ideas, then it becomes something very different. I think personally, | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
and effective counter radicalisation, counter extremist | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
strategy, must have two crucial elements. Yet has to be accepted | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
that some of the ideas in the Islamic, religious precepts and | :38:28. | :38:36. | |
values, themselves form the sea in which the toxic ideas swim. It does | :38:37. | :38:41. | |
not mean all Muslims subscribe to them but it is a genuine and | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
legitimate interpretation of the faith, as expounded by Isla Mikel | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
authorities over the world. I think we, in this country, must aid and | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
give every encouragement to Muslim reformers, who wish to make | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
theological reform. That is the first thing. Secondly, the Prime | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
Minister alluded to the fact that we must address the ideas that form a | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
grievance culture. If young people believe their culture, faith and | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
community is under attack from a conspiracy of the West, or a | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
conspiracy of Jews, of whom I am one, then it is not surprising they | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
are vulnerable to jihadi recruitment. In my view, Western | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
politicians should stand up and address these myths and lies about | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
the West, about Jews, that are being told, in order that Muslims who are | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
growing up can see, or can begin to understand, that what they are being | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
fed by whoever it is, is not true. Do you accent they are not | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
countering enough of the ideology or radicalisation that may not be | :39:45. | :39:52. | |
actually occurring in madrassas or mosques elsewhere? The reason is the | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
prevent strategy is not working. It is marginalising and isolating | :39:58. | :40:00. | |
communities. There are other ways of engaging with the communities and | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
working with them. At this moment in time, there is no consultation | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
taking place with the community is what the Government should do to | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
tackle this from within the community. For people like me, my | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
organisation, and other councils in northern England. You say it is not | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
being counted effectively. Yes. On that basis, what would be wrong with | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
registering and inspecting them? Nothing is wrong with regulation. | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
Nothing wrong if it means protecting safeguarding. What we are against, | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
that this particular piece of document, or consultation, prefers | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
to prevent 19 times, if not more. It is linked to be terrorism and | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
extremism bill, rather than falling at Ofsted and the Department for | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
Education, like all schools. You would be in favour of them being | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
these out of school settings, being registered, inspected and monitored. | :40:59. | :41:05. | |
Would that be view results? It is structural tinkering. There may be a | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
case for that. The problematic issue is one of concept. We're not talking | :41:12. | :41:17. | |
the right language. The majority discourse is kind of going around | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
the edges of this. They are not collectively facing up to the things | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
I have been talking about, which is the ideas that nurture or make these | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
young people vulnerable to really bad guys. Those bad ideas are not | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
being identified. How would you deal with it? Banning orders on | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
nonviolent extremists or closing mosques, is this the way to go about | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
it? It depends how you define extremism. I am troubled by the | :41:47. | :41:56. | |
it? It depends how you define The Government seems to believe that | :41:57. | :41:58. | |
highly Conservative religious ideas are themselves problematic was some | :41:59. | :41:59. | |
it is not problematic, are themselves problematic was some | :42:00. | :42:03. | |
bought religious community to isolate itself in the sense it has | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
cultural practices which set it aside from the mainstream and where | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
have I which may not accord with liberal ideas. The problem only | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
comes when the community wants to do harm to other people. Should there | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
be a bar on alleged extremists working with children and other | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
honourable people? Threats to close mosques that are found this is where | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
the problem would be, to be espousing these radical ideas are | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
not doing enough to them. What else would you suggest in terms of being | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
able to counter these ideas and this sort of radicalisation in | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
able to counter these ideas and this family? Where we are at the moment, | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
my generation was very much part of the British society we felt very | :42:50. | :42:54. | |
inclusive. I am third, fourth generation now, and I have British | :42:55. | :42:59. | |
values, if we know what the term British values means. That is a | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
debate for another day. I could have Muslim, or faith, Jewish, Christian | :43:05. | :43:07. | |
values, and still have my allegiance to Queen and country. The | :43:08. | :43:09. | |
values, and still have my allegiance needs to be very | :43:10. | :43:15. | |
values, and still have my allegiance What does British values mean? There | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
values, and still have my allegiance is a value and and -- | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
values, and still have my allegiance identity. We also have family | :43:22. | :43:24. | |
values, faith values, and other values as well. The two can fit hand | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
in hand together. I am values as well. The two can fit hand | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
made. I think he values as well. The two can fit hand | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
generalising. That is not the case. We do some great work | :43:37. | :43:37. | |
generalising. That is not the case. Bradford with councils for mosques. | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
We work with faith communities, the Jewish communities. We were here | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
with the Christian Muslim Forum last night. There is a great deal of work | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
that goes on. I think the governor needs to the crowd. The whole kind | :43:52. | :43:57. | |
of funding issue has resulted in inclusion, cohesion policy is not | :43:58. | :44:00. | |
working, and other has all been stripped of cash. | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
Over the past few months, a row has been rumbling | :44:05. | :44:06. | |
over, of all things, the exact composition | :44:07. | :44:08. | |
Just before Christmas, the Department for Education held | :44:09. | :44:11. | |
a consultation, which prompted 50,000 people to sign an online | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
petition demanding that women and feminism be put firmly | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
Last night, the argument reached the Commons. | :44:17. | :44:29. | |
Removing feminism from the curriculum is entirely | :44:30. | :44:31. | |
incongruous with the claims of the Prime Minister, | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
across the Despatch Box at PMQs, to myself, only weeks ago, | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
So, as it is, A-level politics covers other ideologies | :44:39. | :44:47. | |
which include sex and gender, gender equality, patriarchy and it | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
covers a knowledge of core ideas, doctrines and theories of feminist | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
thoughts, traditions and distinctive features but when the Government | :44:54. | :45:00. | |
announced plans to revise politics A-level curriculum this section had | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
As had the ideologies of nationalism and multiculturalism. | :45:04. | :45:14. | |
As he is there, I would like to know the status of these | :45:15. | :45:17. | |
The supposed compensation for feminism axing was include | :45:18. | :45:20. | |
a section on pressure groups, so at best, on a generous | :45:21. | :45:22. | |
interpretation, feminism survives here in a reference to suffragists | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
and suffragettes as an example of pressure groups. | :45:26. | :45:27. | |
A lot of lateral thinking and mental gymnastics needed there. | :45:28. | :45:35. | |
As is recently mentioned in the other place, feminism can | :45:36. | :45:37. | |
also be studied within other A-levels. | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
For example, under the reformed sociology A-level students must | :45:40. | :45:41. | |
Exam boards are responsible for setting the detailed | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
content of qualifications in their specifications and schools | :45:48. | :45:49. | |
are free to decide which figures they teach about | :45:50. | :45:56. | |
And following the consultation on the politics A-level, | :45:57. | :45:58. | |
exam boards are making changes to the final content to respond | :45:59. | :46:00. | |
ordable rental sector but what is going done in the bill for private | :46:01. | :46:03. | |
renting sector? Force for to the concerns raised | :46:04. | :46:19. | |
and we will publish our response shortly but I can assure | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
the honourable member that the final politics A-level will give | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
all students the opportunity And I should say that no | :46:26. | :46:27. | |
Education Minister was available We heard the idea would be part of | :46:28. | :46:40. | |
the core syllabus. I'm none the wiser. I looked a at it again today. | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
This stuff gets drip fed through buzzfeed. We heard over Christmas | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
there might be a climbdown. He said it there in the Commons. He was | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
asked to give a list and an explicit commitment that feminism will remain | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
and be reinstated. He has kind of said wait and see. It looked as if | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
the Government has U-turned. I don't know if it is a full U-turn. If so, | :47:05. | :47:10. | |
I'm glad it has happened. We need the detail of what has happened. It | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
took two 17-year-old girls to make this happen, actually. I suppose if | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
two 17-year-old girl guides, the Government knows it is in trouble. | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
But yes, despite the two 7-year-old girls, I don't think they are | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
correct and I think it is all rather silly. I think it is a category | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
error. As I understand t the proposal is to add feminism to | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
Conservative titch, socialism and Liberalism as categories. You don't | :47:39. | :47:46. | |
think it is worthy of that? I think it is a category error. Conserve | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
civil, Liberalism and socialism are broad movement of political thought | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
which reflect the way that people in contrasting views order the world. | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
Feck nichl like otherisms, like racism is a were test movement on | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
behalf of a set of people who feel they are not properly represented in | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
various ways. A set of people, you mean 50% of the population. Yes, | :48:10. | :48:13. | |
that's right but still acting as a protest group as indeed this | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
particular initiative is, because it is all to do with the fact there | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
aren't enough women. In other words, there has to be a certain quota of | :48:21. | :48:28. | |
women. An ideological pressure group politics. That clip you showed was | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
me reading out what was in the old syllabus. It was there and has been | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
deleted. What about the substantial point being put, it is arguable it | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
shouldn't be there in the first place. It doesn't merit the same | :48:41. | :48:46. | |
categorisation as the big political movements? On Antony Gidden's | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
definition, the advancement of women's struggles. I think those | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
things, I don't want agenda-blind curriculum. I think the struggles - | :48:57. | :49:01. | |
the to vote was fought for. We knead to be aware of that. They are linked | :49:02. | :49:06. | |
to, unlike otherisms, it is not anary fairy thing. Women are 50% as | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
Jo says, we cannot delete them from the syllabus. When I heard Will hear | :49:13. | :49:18. | |
the words I don't want a "gender-blind" curriculum. I want to | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
reach for the sick bag. This is pressure group politics. One can say | :49:23. | :49:26. | |
I don't want a curriculum that is blind to... The minister can see | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
they have made some serious mistakes. 29% of MPs are women. My | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
respect for ministers exceeds no-one's but nevertheless I do think | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
occasionally even Conservative ministers run frightened for | :49:43. | :49:44. | |
politically correct pressure groups. Or they believe it. Isn't there a | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
case to be made that gender politics hasn't been solved in that sense or | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
that the form of women hasn't been assured... For sure it is a | :49:56. | :49:58. | |
reasonable argument. I'm not saying for a amendment it shouldn't be | :49:59. | :50:02. | |
covered in the curriculum. I'm talking about the fact that this | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
whole movement seems to be prompted by the idea that there aren't enough | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
women being mentioned, which I think is a worse sort of tokenism and that | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
feminism should be elevated to being the same category as socialism, | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
conservatism or Liberalism, which I think is just a category error. Is | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
it that point? The core syllabus has a selection of key political things. | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
Out of 17, only one woman. Meaning 94% were male. Who would you like to | :50:32. | :50:39. | |
see on that syllabus? Simone, Duvoiva. And Americans who wrote | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
about suburban housewives, something I can identify with, o to some | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
extent. I could furnish them with a long list. Why only one out of 17. | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
It is part of a trend. We had 0 out of 63 composers. It is looking at | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
the wrong end of the at the same time. We can argue about names It is | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
negating... As you say, there must be 50% of the population so, yes... | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
Do they not have a valuable contribution? Maybe there wasn't | :51:13. | :51:14. | |
more than one? I don't know. Start with the principle that the numbers | :51:15. | :51:19. | |
are inherently unfair or unjust... In both occasions, the music | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
syllabus and politics, in each case, both it took my constituents, | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
17-year-old girls to do emanufacture petitions, and the latest one, has | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
done the one on the feminism syllabus. There were 50,000 | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
signatures. It is a new type of politics where governments can cave | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
in. Are we all feminists now? Are we all feminists? You and I are sitting | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
here in a television studio... Three women. A good ratio. To that extent, | :51:47. | :51:52. | |
feminism has won. What is the complaint? Thank you on that. | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
Ask someone English what their national anthem | :51:57. | :51:58. | |
But actually that's the British National Anthem. | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
The Scots and Welsh have their own anthems but officially | :52:02. | :52:03. | |
Various tunes have been tried, but now an MP is asking his | :52:04. | :52:07. | |
the Steinway and look up his best patriotic tunes. | :52:08. | :52:22. | |
Given its power to inspire, it's no surprise music is used often | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
to sell, reinforce or create an idea. | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
Certain tunes speak of shared values and pride in being part of that | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
tricky to define concept - "the nation". | :52:35. | :52:46. | |
Some melodies even get to become a national anthem but England | :52:47. | :52:49. | |
doesn't have one, not one all to itself. | :52:50. | :52:51. | |
There's some obvious options, and some of them HAVE been used | :52:52. | :52:54. | |
as an English national anthem but none has been THE anthem. | :52:55. | :52:57. | |
Now you might be thinking, wait a minim! | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
Well, one MP has proposed Parliament looks at finding one. | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
Land of Hope and Glory will be a great anthem. | :53:07. | :53:08. | |
So, we could see one of those traditional | :53:09. | :53:14. | |
favourites but we could also see something new coming through. | :53:15. | :53:17. | |
With David Bowie's demise, what about, We Could Be Heroes? | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
That could be a great theme tune for Britain. | :53:21. | :53:22. | |
Alternatively, maybe, somebody will come up | :53:23. | :53:40. | |
Fan fastic what does an anthem? Anthem -- fantastic Boyce Truss. | :53:41. | :53:48. | |
Something to get people up. If it is insip I had it doesn't work. | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
Something to get people up. If it is the problem, our National Anthem | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
gets branded a bit of a dirge Yes because it was played ape sung | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
badly. When it was written it would have been sung and played at | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
probably twice the speed it does now and people would have stood up in | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
the pub and sung it and ensqloe joyed it. Toby Perkins wants to have | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
a competition about what it should be. Do you have a suggestion? I have | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
one thing I think people might be able to get behind. | :54:18. | :54:29. | |
Not quite an army but certainly Dads, there's a small group who're | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
campaigning for their choice, and they aren't shy about it either. | :54:32. | :54:40. | |
We are getting people singing on the streets web we are going past. We | :54:41. | :54:46. | |
had one restaurant when everyone stood up and applauded us. There is | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
great support out there. It is about time England was able to celebrate | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
being English, at sporting events. Let the Scots and Welsh celebrate | :54:56. | :55:00. | |
theirs and we come at the end and God Save The Queen. | :55:01. | :55:09. | |
So if your feet any time really are walking upon England's mountain | :55:10. | :55:11. | |
(not entirely sure where that is by the way) spare a thought | :55:12. | :55:14. | |
if you're English for what really says England isn't God | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
Save the Queen spreads harmony avoids discord, | :55:18. | :55:18. | |
Toby Perkins has joined us in the studio | :55:19. | :55:26. | |
and we've also been joined by Olympic silver medallist | :55:27. | :55:28. | |
Kriss Akabusi, who won many medals in the 400m hurdles | :55:29. | :55:30. | |
Is this what we are talking about to you on your the doorstep on | :55:31. | :55:45. | |
constituency? A light-hearted film but S the truth is we do need a new | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
settlement for England. Seen the devolution for England and Wales. I | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
have struck by this at the Rugby World Cup, the Welsh were singing | :55:56. | :55:58. | |
their anthem, we are being represented by England but singing | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
the British anthem. The problems with the union, Scots and Welsh see | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
others and England thinking of ourselves as synonymous. This is a | :56:08. | :56:10. | |
part of that. What would you change it to? Jerusalem is my choice but | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
the key thing about the bill is to have a national consultation. | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
the key thing about the bill is to what about you, | :56:20. | :56:21. | |
the key thing about the bill is to saviourioured your Commonwealth | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
medals more if it had been Land of Hope And Glory rather than good save | :56:27. | :56:33. | |
the Queen? It would have worked but the National Anthem is a unifying | :56:34. | :56:39. | |
factor, all under the umbrella. Whatever God you serve, you have | :56:40. | :56:43. | |
Queen and country and the National Anthem and Union Jack says something | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
to me. It is much more than the words, it is a unifying force, it is | :56:48. | :56:53. | |
the idea that 6 million people, I am one, not the only one and I live | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
under the umbrella. -- 60 million. What about the consultation, would | :56:59. | :57:09. | |
you go for anything else under under the English anthem? Well, listening | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
to Toby, and every night as a young man, it was played on it the V | :57:15. | :57:19. | |
screens and I grew up thinking England and Great Britain are | :57:20. | :57:23. | |
synonymous, I understand the clamour for England having its own place. Do | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
you like the tune? Doesn't do a great deal for me, but the fact it | :57:28. | :57:31. | |
it is the National Anthem. It is clear from Toby that this enterprise | :57:32. | :57:36. | |
to change to Jerusalem or whatever is part of a drive to build up | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
English nationalism. I think that is a really rep prehencible things. | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
Wales and Scotland have? It is not good. It is not good. We have a we | :57:46. | :57:53. | |
are a union nighted king do. I agree can Kriss, the National Anthem sung | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
at sporting events is not a team song. It is the declaration by the | :57:58. | :58:00. | |
England team or whoever the sports people are that they have an | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
allegiance to the crown, an allegiance than something bigger, | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
called England, the UK which binds us altogether. Jeremy Corbyn hasn't | :58:10. | :58:15. | |
put you up to this? He hasn't. But it is wrong, if we are competing as | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
England we should be England. When Kriss and people who follow him | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
represent Britain, it should be skop God Save the Queen. I would sing you | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
out but my voice isn't good enough. There's just time before we go | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. What has David Cameron | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
said every child needs? I wish it was D but it is D, a tiger | :58:38. | :58:56. | |
Thanks to Melanie and all my guests. pussycat. | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
I'll be back at 11:30am tomorrow with Andrew for live coverage | :59:01. | :59:02. | |
Celebrate a country 4,000 years in the making. China begins here. | :59:03. | :59:16. | |
Let your New Year start with a bang and visit an explosive new China. | :59:17. | :59:22. |