21/01/2016 Daily Politics


21/01/2016

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:39.

Are we heading for another financial economic crisis?

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Billions of pounds have been wiped off shares here and abroad,

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in response to a collapse in oil prices and growing concern

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The IMF and other major institutions have all downgraded

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Or are we heading for a major downturn?

:00:55.:01:06.

Some of the biggest political beasts have done the job,

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but what does it take to be a good Secretary of State for Health?

:01:09.:01:12.

Labour spent nearly ?5,000 on this snazzy little number

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at the General Election, but was it money well spent?

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It is all going to be done, no slanging matches, just say - what

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awful weather we are having. And loathe them or loathe them,

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the Home Secretary announces she's killing off the friendly

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traffic warden. All that in the next hour of TV

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gold, which swept the board at last night's National

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Television Awards. And with us for the duration,

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the former Chairman of Conservative Home,

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Tim Montgomerie. He also writes for

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the Times you know. At the moment he's upped sticks

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and lives in Washington DC, Now first today, to the public

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inquiry into the killing of the former Russian spy,

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Alexander Litvinenko in 2006. The inquiry found that his murder

:02:05.:02:06.

was probably approved by President The report found it was

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likely that the two men who put a radioactive

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substance in his tea at a London hotel, were acting

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under the direction of the Russian Secret Service,

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overseen by Mr Putin. Theresa May has been giving a

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statement in the House of Commons and has obviously said not only was

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this not a surprise but they have taken action, because this was ten

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years ago. Because there isn't much more they can do, is there? There is

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plenty they could do if they wanted to. We are sat in, I think probably

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the greatest city on Earth at the moment, London, but one of the

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reasons why it has had so much money from abroad coming in, is we are

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very tolerant of where people get their money from. People buying

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properties in London and Kensington and some of the more desire

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properties in London. Bout through shell companies. We have no idea who

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is behind the shell companies. A lot of those people are the people

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supposedly subject to sanctions. Britain could do an awful lot more

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to investigate the money that's flowing into London and stop some of

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the rich Russians who are behind some of the deeds we are complaining

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about, from getting here. Right. You say they could do more, as you say

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the problem is there are reasons that they probably won't do much

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more, except Theresa May has said that obviously they'll continue to

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chase the two suspects and that they are going to freeze the assets of

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those two chief suspects. But in a statement from the Prime Minister's

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spokesman, they have to weigh carefully the need to take measures

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and respond with the need to work with Russia, not just domestically

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but also in foreign affairs. That's the great truth, Jo. We feel,

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Britain feels, the Foreign Office feels we need to work with the

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Russians at the moment in the battle against ISIS, which means cuddling

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up to Assad, not annoying the rush yabs. So, it is the battle against

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ISIS, more than anything else that is stopping us taking any action

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against Russia. Assad, who I think was the cause of the Syrian civil

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war, we are keeping him in place, keeping close to the Russians. It is

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an una attractive set of real politics situations.

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The world's financial markets have settled down a lttile this morning

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but it's still the worst start to a year since the 2008 financial

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crisis, with investors dumping equities because of the slide

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in the price of oil and about China's stalling economic growth.

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Both are taken as indications that the world economy

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Yesterday, at one point, more than ?50 billion

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was wiped from the value of Britain's biggest businesses,

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as the UK stock market plunged to its lowest level in four years.

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The FTSE 100 is down 20% since it's peak last April.

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Well, world leaders are meeting in Davos, at the World Economic

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From there let's talk to our Correspondent,

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You are full of bankers and global businessmen there. What are they

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say? How worried are they about prospects for 2016?

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# Well, Andrew, it looks picture perfect here. Those moments in the

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markets you were talking about cast a big shadow over this shindig in

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the Alps yesterday. As you say the FTSE 100 followed her major indices,

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down 20%. That meanses in a bare market, the direction of travel is

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down. People are worried about where the global growth is coming from.

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You say China is decelerating. Who will take over the baton? Is India

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ready to do that? Without global growth, the value of the companies

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on the followcy 100 justify the valuations put on them, or have the

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markets been pumped up and discourt torted by quantitative easing and

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will he interest rates. Now the direction of travel on that has

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changed, do they have the fundamentals to fall back on and

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that's what people are worried about. How worried are they about

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the Chinese economy, one of the main reasons why global equity markets

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have gone the way they have gone this month? Well, there is some

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scepticism about the official figures. I spoke to the former

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number 2 at the Central Bank of China yesterday. He said - look, we

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have put our numbers together by generally accepted international

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standards. Yes, we are slowing but there is no reason to suspect that

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the growth rate there is not 7%. I think what is more worrying in the

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Chinese economy is things like the property market which has boomed,

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propped up by a massive increase in credit. If those house can't be sold

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you might get a property bust which can spread throughout the financial

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system. That's the warning light there. But there are waves of nausea

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coming off, thinking, is this just a shock market correction, the kind of

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thing that happens once in a while after a long wrong, or does it say

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down the road there is something more unpleasant coming to the global

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economy. Markets often predict what is going to happen in a few months'

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time or a year's time in the real economy. It happened in 2008 and

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some big hitters are saying we are heading for a 2008-type scenario.

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Most of the people I speak to here say they cannot see a global

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recession but the question is - does the stock market, is it worth the

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valuations it is getting, or is this the moment of reckoning, when people

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have a reality check and say prospects

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have a reality check and say you very much for, that enjoy your

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time in Davos, it is a good place to meet be everybody. Let's pick up on

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some of these points. And with us now, the former

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International Development Minister, Alan Duncan and Labour MP,

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Stephen Kinnock, who used to work Alan, Duncan, the stock markets are

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reacting in the way they do, Alan, Duncan, the stock markets are

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they are concerned about the course of the world economy. They look at

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the price of oil and see of the world economy. They look at

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demand. They look at what is of the world economy. They look at

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too. Are they right? Are they right to be worried that the global

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economy is in danger of recession? I think they probably

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economy is in danger of recession? I of the problems of analysts at the

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moment is they are underestimating moment is they are underestimating

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the significance of the collapse in oil which has been so dramatic and

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relatively quick. Although this is great for ?1 at the pumps, it is

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going to have very, very tough effects else where. Fist of all, it

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is as much a political problem in most Gov-producing companies need

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$80 to pay their way. They'll face political turmoil them. 'Have

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$80 to pay their way. They'll face suck a lot of money from Western

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markets to pay the deficit which will put pressure on liquidity and

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interest rates. You will look at companies like Shell that don't have

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dividends for pensions. The North Sea Oil is falling to bits. I think

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you will see a lot of pressure on companies and company debt. I think

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we'll see big corporate failures, not just in the oil sector but also

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elsewhere, because of all of this. This is a big problem. Economic in

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many respects, but deeply political, in a whole global context. Do you

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foresee 2016 being the year recession returns? I think there are

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some real risks. What we are seeing is the fundamentals of the economy

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are not strong enough. You are seeing a shift in China from being a

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country that has been the safer, to being an spender. They are trying to

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stimulate domestic consumption. Still a massive safer, though.

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Absolutely but I think that transition is painful and there are

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growing pains. So it reflects an imbalance. I think we are also

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seeing, in the UK, exposure because our economy is imbalanced. Look at

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our trade deficit and productivity crisis. What major economy, perhaps

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other than America s in better shape than perhaps the British economy? It

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depends on how you define "better shape." Give me one. The quantity of

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growth fine, the question for me is about the quaulted of growth.

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Unemployment figures going down but what sort of jobs are we creating.

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Productivity crisis the worst it has been in living memory. That is

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depends on the industry. Productivity in the car industry is

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one of the highest in the world and never been higher. I'm more

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concerned about signs of resechlingts you is both seem to

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think it is on the who are eye zovenlt when you look at the

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economic fundamentals, of course economic growth, global growth is

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hardly sparkling but nor is any major region with the exception of a

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couple of emerging markets in recession. What the is to stop us

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just continuing to go along at 2% to 3% growth. If you go back to 2006/7,

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people didn't see Liamen brothers coming but it came. An economy like

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the UK, we are far too reliable on consumer-driven debt rather than

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domestic growth. Household debts will be lower than in 2008. It is

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massive. Well relative to assets it is not. I'm puzzled to see the gloom

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and doom here. I could see you couldn't write a boom scenario for

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the global economy, the IMF, World Bank, OECD have downgraded its

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forecasts but China is still growing, maybe less than before.

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India is growing faster than it has for sometime. Even the eurozone is

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now going to get about 1% growth. The American economy is still at

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2.5%. We are expected to grow by 2.5%. Where does the recession come

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from? I think we, as the UK, are in a comparatively strong position. I

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think we are fairly well underpinned. The point I make is not

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so much that we are going to go into a 2008 collapse and recession, as

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that oil prices at this level are not an automatic stimulus to good,

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broad economic global growth and that accompanying dramatic collapse

:12:12.:12:17.

will be real political pressures. Already Venezuela is almost

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bankrupt. That's marginal compared to the global economy. Brazil is in

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marginal state in GDP terms? You are in the oil market. You were in the

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oil market. Let me ask you this - oil is cyclical. What we will see

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this year, the Russians already talking about cutting production.

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Partly because they can't get it out, for other reasons as W Shale in

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America will take a dive in America because the price has fallen. When

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do you think the oil price starts it tick up again? There is a lot in

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storage which has to be consumed. Iran is coming onstream with an

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extra one or two million barrels a day. Libya if there is a political

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settlement could go up from 250,000 barrels a day to 1.6 million. The

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volumes stand to be over the next year or two, still a lot larger than

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consumer demand. My view isn't so much that we will see complete

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economic collapse as that accompanying the fall in oil and

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commodity prices, there is no automatic stimulus and there is

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massive political danger in already the region, the turmoil, adding to

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the turmoil in the region that's there already. Thats' my main point.

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It is not universal good news is all I'm saying. If we were to ties

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another downturn as a result of external factors -- if we were to

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face. We are vulnerable to all sorts of

:13:40.:13:45.

external forces F that was to provoke another downturn, what

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weapons should the Government, whether Labour or Government, deploy

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to deal with that downturn? For me, the watchword is resilience. You

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need to build an economy that has the flexibility to absorb a shock

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and bounce back. In order to do that I think you need a proper active

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industrial policy. We unfortunately have a Secretary of State for

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Business and innovative skills. What is an active policy Proper

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investment in skills, infrastructure, energy. The whole

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basis for an economy that actually starts it make things again. These

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are all long-term issues. I want to bring Tim Montgomerie in. They are

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long-term reforms you are advocating. What should the

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Government macroeconomic response be if we hit a downturn caused by

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external force this is year? Really there aren't that many moneyly it

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levers left. Interest rates are as will he as they can be. You could go

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negative. They could. Switzerland is negative and Sweden and the ECB. The

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borrowing costs are higher than the headline interests. Still

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historically. We are short of weapons. That's why a more Keynesen

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approach is the way forward. You are in the United States. The American

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economy is chugging along, I put it no higher than that. It has been

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said it is growing but no momentum. Where do you think we are in terms

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of the economic cycle. Does the market ties another downturn? Good

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and bad. India benefits from the lower oil prices and mucher Europe.

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Alan is right it talk about the problems in the Middle East but a

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lot of the world economy will benefit. The key question is the one

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that you ask - we spent an awful lot of money, borrowed a lot to get us

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out of the last crash. We are only half way to get right of the

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deficit. For example in Britain, in the Autumn Statement last year,

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George Osborne gambled on growth continuing to get there.

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He spent the ?27 billion he found down the back of the sofa. The other

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issue is quantitative easing, you asked about America and there are

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now huge questions about inequality. A lot of Republican and Democrat

:15:59.:16:06.

opposition are using that. The United States has begun the rise in

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interest rates before sorting out the bad news, will it continue

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rising rates? They will wait. No, and we have to keep calm and carry

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on. I agree that they won't. Thank you for joining us. It's a very

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large sofa that George Osborne has got. It must be to have 27 billion

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in it! Well, David Cameron's due to make

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a speech in Davos in just over The Prime Minister's expected

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to call on business leaders to make the case for the UK to remain

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inside a reformed European Union. He's pledged to hold a referendum

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on the UK's membership, once he's finished his attempts

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to negotiate changes. Let's talk now to our

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Correspondent, Eleanor Garnier. Tell us first about the latest news

:16:46.:16:55.

on timing and choreography once he has the negotiated settlement he is

:16:56.:17:01.

looking for? Well, David Cameron said his ministers will be allowed

:17:02.:17:05.

to campaign to leave the EU but only after the government has come to an

:17:06.:17:08.

agreed position and it will have to be made at a cabinet meeting. The

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summit is happening on Thursday and Friday, but a Cabinet meeting is

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held on choose day so Euro sceptics worry that the 48 hours could be

:17:20.:17:24.

critical will stop and David Cameron may have an advantage over the

:17:25.:17:27.

weekend because he could come back and say, I have got a deal in Europe

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and been victorious, and he can make his case to stay in Europe. The

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Eurosceptics will have dessert on their hands because the government

:17:38.:17:40.

will not yet have come to an agreed position. Downing Street are saying

:17:41.:17:46.

today that actually there will be a Cabinet soon after a deal has been

:17:47.:17:51.

done, so we could see one on Saturday or even Sunday. We don't

:17:52.:17:58.

know yet. They are not giving a time or a day. During the campaign or the

:17:59.:18:02.

renegotiation, David Cameron and his team have had to rebuff claims that

:18:03.:18:07.

actually this referendum has been rigged and it's all been far too

:18:08.:18:11.

easy. Downing Street don't want to be seen to be taking advantage of

:18:12.:18:16.

the weekend so they will give the Eurosceptics what they want even

:18:17.:18:19.

though we don't yet have a date and time. Thank you very much.

:18:20.:18:22.

Joining us now is the Executive Director for Britain Stronger

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Welcome to the Daily Politics. First of all, just picking up on that,

:18:25.:18:32.

what do you make of the change in how they will choreograph the post

:18:33.:18:36.

negotiated settlement Cabinet meeting? Those 72 hours after David

:18:37.:18:41.

Cameron comes back are incredibly important. First impressions really

:18:42.:18:46.

count, lots of people are waiting for the renegotiation is -- the

:18:47.:18:59.

renegotiation outcome. If he can get the sceptics do say that he has a

:19:00.:19:02.

brilliant deal that could settle in the public mind and if the Cabinet

:19:03.:19:06.

Eurosceptics aren't able to speak until Monday or Tuesday after words,

:19:07.:19:12.

again, the one-sided debate that the Prime Minister has set up continues.

:19:13.:19:17.

The danger is that there will be resignations from the Cabinet if the

:19:18.:19:20.

Cabinet meeting doesn't happen very early after renegotiation. It

:19:21.:19:24.

doesn't sound like the arrangement would hold anyway because they would

:19:25.:19:30.

speak out anyway. Will they? Are you sure that the Eurosceptic Cabinet

:19:31.:19:33.

ministers are actually going to speak out, even when the veil of

:19:34.:19:40.

silence has been lifted? There are at least five Cabinet ministers who

:19:41.:19:46.

will definitely campaign for an exit. Chris Grayling, Iain Duncan

:19:47.:19:50.

Smith, Theresa Villiers, Priti Patel, and John Whittingdale. The

:19:51.:19:55.

people in the balance are people like Sajid Javid. If the Business

:19:56.:20:01.

Secretary says that Britain will survive outside the EU, that is

:20:02.:20:05.

significant. I would not be optimistic about Boris Johnson, I'm

:20:06.:20:07.

pretty sure he will be on optimistic about Boris Johnson, I'm

:20:08.:20:19.

out campaign ten points ahead? Will that make a difference

:20:20.:20:22.

out campaign ten points ahead? Will Johnson? It

:20:23.:20:24.

out campaign ten points ahead? Will lots of them will not want to be on

:20:25.:20:28.

the losing side. Are you disappointed that that is the case?

:20:29.:20:30.

the losing side. Are you Boris Johnson would certainly give

:20:31.:20:37.

them a boost. I am a past unit supporter of Britain becoming

:20:38.:20:40.

independent like Australia, Canada, Japan. These nations run their own

:20:41.:20:45.

affairs and Britain should as well. Ministers have said privately and

:20:46.:20:47.

publicly over the years that unless there is significant change they

:20:48.:20:56.

would campaign for an exit. In future leadership elections for the

:20:57.:21:01.

Conservative Party, there could be consequences if they don't.

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Listening to that, let's talk about Labour. We spoke to the co-chair of

:21:04.:21:08.

the Labour campaign to leave the EU and she said around 25-30-0 MPs --

:21:09.:21:25.

Labour MPs would support Brexit. Well over 90% have been signed up by

:21:26.:21:32.

Alan Johnson to his in campaign. Most Labour MPs have moved their

:21:33.:21:35.

mind Andy made up their mind clearly. Jeremy Corbyn is clear

:21:36.:21:41.

about his position. Alan Johnson has been working with Labour MPs around

:21:42.:21:46.

Britain. Of course in the cross-party campaign we have people

:21:47.:21:50.

from Labour, SNP, Greens, the Conservatives, Plaid Cymru, all

:21:51.:21:57.

working to keep Britain in the European Union. Should MPs have a

:21:58.:22:02.

free vote? Kate Hoey was adamant that it should be and it will

:22:03.:22:07.

happen. That is a matter for Jeremy Corbyn. Should it be? People have

:22:08.:22:11.

strong convictions and should be allowed to set out what their

:22:12.:22:15.

convictions are. I don't think it is likely to particularly split the

:22:16.:22:20.

Labour Party as things stand. I don't see the issue with that. There

:22:21.:22:24.

are big issues at stake about what is best for Britain and how to

:22:25.:22:28.

ensure that jobs can be created in the future and what is best for our

:22:29.:22:33.

security. These are serious issues. Over the last week we have had a lot

:22:34.:22:38.

of momentum on our side. I haven't received it and I don't know where

:22:39.:22:45.

it is,... Just a matter of time! Is that a promise or a warning? Let's

:22:46.:22:49.

look at the details. Newspaper reports as adjusting there are

:22:50.:22:53.

errors as I'm sure you know. The claim is that EU membership is worth

:22:54.:23:00.

?3000 to the average partnership are year -- the average household per

:23:01.:23:04.

year. They looked at a range of peer-reviewed studies setting out

:23:05.:23:08.

what the economic benefits are to the UK from being in the European

:23:09.:23:11.

Union compared to a scenario where we had not joined in the mid-70s and

:23:12.:23:16.

they divided that by the number of households. It's not a precise

:23:17.:23:20.

figure. It's an average of different studies but here is the point, you

:23:21.:23:24.

will hear a lot from the leave campaign is about the costs of

:23:25.:23:29.

membership, ?340 for the average household per year, and paired to

:23:30.:23:34.

that ?3000 figure. Even if that is a rough average we are talking eight

:23:35.:23:40.

or nine to one in terms of the ratio. The figures work both ways. A

:23:41.:23:46.

study done for Ukip said there was in the region of ?165 billion to be

:23:47.:23:52.

saved which you would dispute. Does it help anyone to have these very

:23:53.:23:58.

bold claims? But they are statistics? We could have a

:23:59.:24:01.

disagreement on statistics and it would turn off everybody. We are

:24:02.:24:06.

putting up a wall if we are to leave the European Union, we would still

:24:07.:24:11.

trade with Europe and a lot of those benefits in the CBI numbers would

:24:12.:24:14.

still exist because we would still be trading with European Union

:24:15.:24:19.

partners. What we would get by leaving Europe, the net contribution

:24:20.:24:25.

is rising year-on-year on year. We can repatriate the money and spend

:24:26.:24:29.

it on the NHS and having our own trade posts all over the world. What

:24:30.:24:34.

we don't know is what the trading relationship would look like, this

:24:35.:24:39.

week Daniel Hannan said he supports the Norway option whereas Dominic

:24:40.:24:44.

Cummings who runs the leave campaign says that they don't want the

:24:45.:24:49.

Norwegian model. Will we retain access to the single market and if

:24:50.:24:53.

so we would have to pay budget contributions and accept rules and

:24:54.:24:56.

regulations and free movement and all of those things would be true.

:24:57.:25:01.

It is absolutely true that there is risk in leaving but staying in as

:25:02.:25:06.

well. Everyone knows that since we joined the European economic

:25:07.:25:09.

community it has changed beyond recognition. If Britain stays, they

:25:10.:25:13.

will take as the granted for years. I don't think that's right. There

:25:14.:25:20.

will be the possibility of a refugee union and there will be consequences

:25:21.:25:25.

for staying in. It's a choice of two risks. The access to the European

:25:26.:25:30.

market, 500 million, would have to accept free movement of people. With

:25:31.:25:35.

Norway and Switzerland who are in the European economic area, who do

:25:36.:25:40.

have the access, they still have to accept the free movement of people

:25:41.:25:43.

as well. The rate of immigration into Norway and Switzerland is

:25:44.:25:50.

higher than in the UK. People need to be honest about what they want

:25:51.:25:54.

like Tim has been, free movement would stay and you would still

:25:55.:25:58.

accept rules and regulations. We will have to leave it there. The

:25:59.:26:03.

Pope is now coming out. He is on our side and we have the farmers! I

:26:04.:26:09.

don't think he has a vote. The Vatican is not in. He should join

:26:10.:26:15.

himself. You are very right. What are you guessing would be the

:26:16.:26:18.

referendum date? There is a growing view that it will be June 23 but it

:26:19.:26:24.

will be contingent upon an agreement will stop I would say so. -- an

:26:25.:26:27.

agreement. June 23, don't be away. Now chicken suits, a bright pink

:26:28.:26:34.

bus and a helicopter Not your head but a politician's

:26:35.:26:36.

head. Yesterday the Electoral Commission

:26:37.:26:43.

published figures revealing exactly how much and how the different

:26:44.:26:45.

political parties spent their money during last year's

:26:46.:26:48.

General Election campaign. So Jo, how much did

:26:49.:26:50.

Harriet Harman's bus cost? The Labour party spent nearly ?5,000

:26:51.:26:59.

on Harriet Harman's 'Pink Bus' I didn't know they were so

:27:00.:27:05.

expensive. But the infamous Ed Stone wasn't

:27:06.:27:10.

included in the party's finances. Labour say the eight foot six

:27:11.:27:13.

monument was left out due The Conservatives spent a total

:27:14.:27:16.

of ?15.5 million on the campaign, Their costs included ?487,000 on

:27:17.:27:23.

private jets to get senior Tories across the country, ?2.4 million

:27:24.:27:31.

for election guru Lynton Crosby and ?40,000 for a personal

:27:32.:27:41.

photographer to trail the PM. The SNP spent ?1.5 million

:27:42.:27:47.

on the General Election campaign - including more

:27:48.:27:49.

than ?35,000 on a helicopter And UKIP spent nearly ?3

:27:50.:27:51.

million including ?10,000 for copies The Lib Dems spent ?3.5 million

:27:52.:27:57.

and the Greens spent just So, which party got most bang

:27:58.:28:04.

for their buck? The figures suggest the Conservative

:28:05.:28:10.

campaign cost ?1.38 per vote, Labour spent ?1.29 but the winners

:28:11.:28:13.

were Ukip who spent 73p for each Thanks. If you do it by MPs then the

:28:14.:28:30.

Scottish Nationalists got the biggest bang for their buck.

:28:31.:28:35.

And with us now Labour's John McTernan, who has run numerous,

:28:36.:28:38.

dare I say it, not entirely successful campaigns

:28:39.:28:41.

Would it be fair or unfair to say that it didn't matter how Labour

:28:42.:28:51.

spend money in the last election, it wasn't going to win? I don't agree.

:28:52.:28:56.

If I had my time again in Scotland we would spend all of our money on

:28:57.:29:01.

social media. Labour were routed in Scotland by the SNP on social media

:29:02.:29:06.

and in the UK on social media by the Conservatives. You really think it

:29:07.:29:12.

is that important? Labour spend more in a single advert in the FT than

:29:13.:29:19.

social media in the entire campaign, not many swing voters are reading

:29:20.:29:24.

the FT. We have breaking news on the subject we are talking about, it has

:29:25.:29:29.

been revealed by the Labour Party that the Ed Stone cost ?8,000, more

:29:30.:29:46.

than the pink bus. It was the most ridiculous and disastrous political

:29:47.:29:48.

stunt in my lifetime but for the humour that it has given since then

:29:49.:29:54.

it is a bargain. I tell you, I have had any number of offers from people

:29:55.:29:57.

in the Australian Labour Party wishing to buy it for more than

:29:58.:30:02.

?8,000. It is in south-east London somewhere. They haven't broken it

:30:03.:30:06.

up? It is somewhere in a gigantic yard. That will set everyone off

:30:07.:30:12.

looking for it again if that is the case.

:30:13.:30:20.

?2.4 million played to Linton cross by. Sir Linton. We don't use titles

:30:21.:30:28.

on this programme. Tim. Sorry, Sir Andrew. We don't use titles. Should

:30:29.:30:36.

he have been given a hereditary peerage for stopping Ed Miliband

:30:37.:30:40.

from becoming Prime Minister. It was extraordinarily well-spent money.

:30:41.:30:44.

Linton cross by is a very successful campaigner. Agree with what a lot of

:30:45.:30:50.

John said, the wisest way in which the Conservative Party spent money

:30:51.:30:52.

was on social media. It is interesting in America at the moment

:30:53.:30:57.

watching Fox News and the Wall Street Journal trying to stop the

:30:58.:31:02.

Donald Trump phenomenon and not succeeding, American vote remembers

:31:03.:31:06.

getting an increasing proportion of their news from there and other

:31:07.:31:10.

people and getting a recommendation from a friend a more powerful

:31:11.:31:13.

reading it on a newspaper leader or television show. That's the future

:31:14.:31:17.

for political campaigning. Sometimes money doesn't matter that much. Even

:31:18.:31:23.

the Labour Party's own internal investigation suggested that that

:31:24.:31:33.

Salmond's pocket had quite a big effect on voters in England to get

:31:34.:31:34.

them to go back to the effect on voters in England to get

:31:35.:31:38.

and that cost ?950. That's a effect on voters in England to get

:31:39.:31:43.

tribute, I think, to Crosby. Not just him. The Saatchis. The texter,

:31:44.:31:50.

who is a brilliant pollster, he heard the concerns of people in the

:31:51.:31:54.

focus groups. Turned it into a image. You play back to people their

:31:55.:31:59.

fears and concerns, a great image like a great line goes around the

:32:00.:32:05.

world quickly. Basically, it is the inspiration of finding the right

:32:06.:32:08.

words and then the image that captures it. And sticking at T

:32:09.:32:14.

Labour had too many messages. Linton Crosby's one of his great advantages

:32:15.:32:19.

he brings to a campaign, he sits on people. Politicians want to say new

:32:20.:32:22.

things to people like you Andrew, they want to be interesting. A lot

:32:23.:32:24.

about winning being repettively dull. They were.

:32:25.:32:32.

Long-term economic plan. The 2000 election, American election, the

:32:33.:32:37.

George Bush's first election, I remember being on the campaign and

:32:38.:32:38.

we were all complaining that he was remember being on the campaign and

:32:39.:32:43.

giving the same speech again and again and Carol Rove same and said -

:32:44.:32:47.

he will continue to give this speech until everyone in the country has

:32:48.:32:51.

he will continue to give this speech memorised it. What is your major

:32:52.:32:55.

take away from Labour on what to learn? Labour had less money than

:32:56.:32:58.

the Conservatives, not huge but still a measurable amount less. What

:32:59.:33:03.

is the main take away for you You shouldn't fight the last war. In the

:33:04.:33:06.

last election the Labour Party basically spent all its money on

:33:07.:33:11.

troops on the ground, canvassing, believing that that was - that that

:33:12.:33:14.

would get across the swing voters. You have to put your money into

:33:15.:33:17.

really good polling and good communication, disciplined

:33:18.:33:23.

communication. To people where they are. And actually Tim is completely

:33:24.:33:27.

right. A recommendation from a friend is far better than a stranger

:33:28.:33:31.

knocking on your door. I think it is going back to that - how do we

:33:32.:33:35.

persuade other people to listen to us and then to change their minds?

:33:36.:33:37.

Thank you very much. Now, there are few jobs in

:33:38.:33:40.

Government that are as challenging But as Ministers try to settle

:33:41.:33:46.

the Junior Doctors dispute, what does it take to manage one

:33:47.:33:49.

of the biggest budgets in Whitehall and one of the largest

:33:50.:33:53.

workforces on Earth? As well as being held responsible

:33:54.:33:54.

for every health scare and routine Here he is with the second

:33:55.:33:57.

in our series of 'So you want to be Whitehall - the heart of Government.

:33:58.:34:19.

But could you balance the needs of patients with those of doctors,

:34:20.:34:22.

nurses and surgeons and still be responsible for one of the largest

:34:23.:34:28.

employers in the world? So, you want to be Health Secretary? You know you

:34:29.:34:32.

do some things at the start that you probably wouldn't do at the end and

:34:33.:34:36.

you definitely do some things at the end that you wouldn't do at the

:34:37.:34:39.

start. In the Conservative Party there are lots of people who know

:34:40.:34:43.

about defence and foreign affairs. Turned out there were relatively few

:34:44.:34:47.

who knew about health. The BMA had posters of me all over the country

:34:48.:34:52.

attacking me. When I went on holiday nurse has wanted posters for me at

:34:53.:34:56.

the airport asking people to search for the missing minister. The BMA

:34:57.:35:00.

had a great guy who was their lead negotiator. I called him Scargill

:35:01.:35:06.

with a sket scope. -- stethoscope. He was brilliant. I think I'm the

:35:07.:35:10.

first, the only person ever who went into the Department of Health and

:35:11.:35:15.

had a World Health pandemic declared within four days of arriving in the

:35:16.:35:20.

department. Jill Rutter is a former civil servant, now with the

:35:21.:35:24.

Institute for the Government who says whichever party is in charge,

:35:25.:35:28.

the issue of running the Department of health are much the same Being

:35:29.:35:32.

Secretary of State for Health, you have the giant budget, second

:35:33.:35:34.

biggest in Government. You have a small department but you are

:35:35.:35:39.

basically accountable for this really giant organisation called the

:35:40.:35:41.

National Health Service. But you don't run it. So that is the key

:35:42.:35:47.

relationship you have to get right. The second thing is that you are

:35:48.:35:52.

dealing with doctors and nurses, effectively some of the most

:35:53.:35:54.

effective trade unions in the country. They have very high

:35:55.:35:58.

credibility. You are a politician, you have very low credibility. How

:35:59.:36:02.

are you going to deal with them? Just expect all hell let loose. The

:36:03.:36:08.

public, the political class, the media get more worked up about

:36:09.:36:11.

health issues than anything else. Any Secretary of State finds that he

:36:12.:36:17.

or she is embroiled in constant battle with one group or another. It

:36:18.:36:21.

requires a great deal of reform and change to keep up with changing in

:36:22.:36:25.

demands and so on. Every time you want to change something, it is

:36:26.:36:29.

fought bitterly by some interest group or other and the people who

:36:30.:36:34.

are most resistant to change are the general public, who want a better

:36:35.:36:40.

health service but not varied in anyway from that which they are

:36:41.:36:43.

familiar. The fact is that process of change never seems to end. The

:36:44.:36:47.

National Health Service is like continually digging a hole under

:36:48.:36:49.

yourself and you have to continually move forward. It is one of the great

:36:50.:36:54.

challenges, that the success of the NHS, presents it with an

:36:55.:36:57.

ever-greater challenge. And there has always been a price to pay for

:36:58.:37:03.

the Health Secretary. Much so much so, one didn't much like the look of

:37:04.:37:07.

the job. I had done health in opposition. I had opposed Barbara

:37:08.:37:13.

cap castle. -- Barbara cap castle. We had a hairy time. She was having

:37:14.:37:18.

a hairy time. I was in Opposition. She was having a hairy time again

:37:19.:37:23.

with the medical establishment and BMA and had to be rescued almost to

:37:24.:37:29.

her complete horror by Lord Goodman, you saw then, this was a Labour

:37:30.:37:32.

Secretary of State, you saw then how difficult it was to make progress.

:37:33.:37:37.

One of the reasons why, in the health service there had been so

:37:38.:37:41.

many reform programmes, is because most of them, people have been hit

:37:42.:37:47.

hard and pulled back. And they have been half-baked. You know the table

:37:48.:37:52.

is the littered with half-baked reforms. The point was to try and

:37:53.:37:56.

accomplish the baking the whole thing.

:37:57.:38:01.

The opposition to most reforms has come most often over the

:38:02.:38:06.

controversial issue of who else, apart from the NSH can provide

:38:07.:38:10.

services My goodness, Dave Prentis and I used to have ding dong

:38:11.:38:16.

arguments with officials and special advisors sitting there wincing away

:38:17.:38:22.

as we went hammer and tongs. He didn't believe in alternative

:38:23.:38:27.

providers on the NHS. I did. We weren't going to reach agreement.

:38:28.:38:30.

You have a situation in our country, it'll always be like this. That 95%

:38:31.:38:35.

of care is provided by the public sector. It is neuro. If you can

:38:36.:38:42.

bring in private sector players who have expertise, knowledge and

:38:43.:38:46.

capacity and capability who can greet NHS patients for free,

:38:47.:38:50.

according to their needs, not on the be availability to pay, why wouldn't

:38:51.:38:54.

you do that. For Andrew Lansley, those who argued you shouldn't were

:38:55.:39:00.

NHS managers. They had been proposed when Alan Milburn brought it in and

:39:01.:39:04.

Patricia Hewitt legislated to it, and they continued and are probably

:39:05.:39:08.

opposed to it, to this day. But there are many politicians, and

:39:09.:39:12.

people, who sing the same tune, and they are not shy about telling you.

:39:13.:39:16.

If your colleagues in the House, other MPs, are concerned about

:39:17.:39:20.

health in their patch, they will get you. And it is no good saying to

:39:21.:39:25.

them - go and seat guy from NHS England -- see the guy. They expect

:39:26.:39:30.

you to sort it out. I remember a woman once coming to my surgery

:39:31.:39:33.

asking me it write it the Health Secretary on her behalf T I was the

:39:34.:39:36.

Health Secretary. She didn't realise. -- I said - yes, of course,

:39:37.:39:41.

I should be able to do that in the next couple of days. For one

:39:42.:39:44.

Secretary of State, the department was more than just treating the

:39:45.:39:50.

sick. Day 1, Department of Health, I said to the masked ranks of the

:39:51.:39:53.

senior people in the Department of Health - from now on physical

:39:54.:39:57.

activity is going to be the core business of this department and I

:39:58.:40:00.

think it is fair to say a tumbleweed went across the table. They were

:40:01.:40:06.

thinking - no, that's DCMS. I knew the Department of health culture was

:40:07.:40:12.

- oh, yes, we like buying pills and Sir rings and, you know, scalpels,

:40:13.:40:18.

and aprons but we don't invest in running machines or, you know,

:40:19.:40:22.

because that's the DH kind of culture, actually. It is - we'll

:40:23.:40:26.

pick up the pieces when you are ill. It truly isn't, to be fair, a

:40:27.:40:29.

Department of Health. You know, promoting health.

:40:30.:40:34.

Perhaps the largest reform of the NHS and most controversial was

:40:35.:40:38.

brought in in 2010 and many people said it had been sprung on the NHS,

:40:39.:40:44.

breaking a promise Somebody and I have not to this day yet, found

:40:45.:40:48.

somebody who will own up to t put into the coalition programme -- up

:40:49.:40:53.

to it, a reference to no more topdown reorganisation, on the basis

:40:54.:40:56.

that the Prime Minister said it in 2006, therefore it must be true in

:40:57.:41:01.

2010. Well, in between we had the manifesto. It wasn't in the

:41:02.:41:04.

Conservative manifesto. Those words didn't appear. They didn't apear in

:41:05.:41:10.

the Liberal Democrat manifesto. Somebody thought theyed should be in

:41:11.:41:15.

the coalition programme, notwithstanding the fact they were

:41:16.:41:23.

neither not in either manifesto. So that simple fact, regardless of me,

:41:24.:41:28.

was very damaging. As today's Health Secretary, junior doctors and

:41:29.:41:31.

patients know, right now, the job of providing hale in this country is

:41:32.:41:35.

not easy at the frontline. -- providing health. But it doesn't

:41:36.:41:40.

Well us is clear who used to be Whitehall.

:41:41.:41:53.

Well us is clear who used to be Chair of the royal College of GPs.

:41:54.:41:57.

It is such an enormous job. It seems impossible to get it right. It is an

:41:58.:42:02.

enormous job. I would be interested in whether those Secretary of

:42:03.:42:05.

States, that you had in that programme, got together and asked

:42:06.:42:09.

themselves why many of them got it so wrong. It is as if, with due

:42:10.:42:13.

respect, they get the portfolio of health, it is like a new train set,

:42:14.:42:17.

they take it out and play around with it and then what they then do,

:42:18.:42:22.

is use another analogy, they plant a plant, dig it up a few weeks' later

:42:23.:42:27.

to see how it is getting on. Maybe with such a complex organisation,

:42:28.:42:30.

such as the NHS, who deals with people who are sick and dying, maybe

:42:31.:42:36.

it beholds to them just to let evolutionary process take its place,

:42:37.:42:40.

rather than think we have this enormous revolution and everything

:42:41.:42:42.

is going to be all right. Do you admit, then, on the side of

:42:43.:42:48.

evolution, you and others, the BMA have sometimes be been a block and

:42:49.:42:51.

obstacle to reform and change? Well, with respect to myself, I think many

:42:52.:42:57.

would now say that I was absolutely right with my opposition and my

:42:58.:43:01.

vocal opposition that the Royal College of GPs had around the 2012

:43:02.:43:10.

NHS Act and also many of the other policies that the BMA have spoken

:43:11.:43:18.

publicly about, the private sprieders, and Ken Clarke's

:43:19.:43:21.

initiative that has brought in. So the BMA does not oppose just for

:43:22.:43:25.

opposition sake. It is there to represent doctors but it also

:43:26.:43:28.

represents patients and funnelledmentally

:43:29.:43:32.

represents patients and right. It is not really her or the

:43:33.:43:36.

group she represented at the time, or the BMA's fault there are

:43:37.:43:40.

politicians like Andrew Lansley, for example, introducing what they saw

:43:41.:43:44.

as an unnecessary and damaging topdown reorganisation. Yes, but if

:43:45.:43:47.

they really believe that, of course they should oppose a reform that

:43:48.:43:50.

they think is not in the interests of the health service. The overall

:43:51.:43:56.

thrust, I find a lot of the health reforms that have taken place under

:43:57.:44:00.

both Labour and Conservative confusing, but the general thrust

:44:01.:44:03.

has been to give more power to professionals. I think that's the

:44:04.:44:07.

general belief, the general aim of the Lansley reforms and it is what

:44:08.:44:11.

Alan Milburn did when he was Health Secretary. So it would be wrong to

:44:12.:44:14.

get the impression that politicians are always trying to tinker in the

:44:15.:44:17.

detail. They have done too many reorganisations, that's true.

:44:18.:44:20.

detail. They have done too many think the Lansley reforms were

:44:21.:44:24.

regrettable. I don't think they got at the heart of why

:44:25.:44:27.

regrettable. I don't think they got facing financial pressures but the

:44:28.:44:31.

thrust with foundation hospitals and more power for GP purchasing is

:44:32.:44:35.

pushing #130b89 towards the professionals we can trust. The

:44:36.:44:38.

problem there, I think it was Ken Clarke, I can't remember, who said -

:44:39.:44:43.

politicians pulled back sometimes for major change so it

:44:44.:44:47.

politicians pulled back sometimes as being tinkering at the edges

:44:48.:44:50.

because of the resistance from health unions, the college of GPs or

:44:51.:44:53.

If I ask you to pull down your house BMA.

:44:54.:45:00.

If I ask you to pull down your house every two years because it is in

:45:01.:45:04.

your best interests and rebuild it every two years you would think I

:45:05.:45:09.

was mad. What we need now, what we said is that we need stability and

:45:10.:45:13.

we need to make sure we make the NHS safe, going through its biggest

:45:14.:45:18.

crisis for decades at the moment and probably does need ironically some

:45:19.:45:22.

reorganisation at this stage. But I don't think we can blame the BMA, an

:45:23.:45:28.

organisation that has been there for 200 years nearly, supporting health

:45:29.:45:34.

care and since the onset of the NHS supporting the NHS. That is rather

:45:35.:45:39.

invidious. But on their side, the public do have this glorified view

:45:40.:45:51.

of doctors and nurses, less than 30 years ago. Alan Johnson described

:45:52.:45:55.

one commentator as Scargill with a stethoscope. Was that fair? I don't

:45:56.:46:02.

know specifically but there are examples now with the junior doctors

:46:03.:46:05.

dispute where some of the people involved in the BMA are also members

:46:06.:46:10.

of the Labour Party. That doesn't help the BMA's case when they allow

:46:11.:46:16.

people who have other agendas to pollute their message. That is so

:46:17.:46:21.

unfair, we have this McCarthy era where we are looking for Reds under

:46:22.:46:30.

our hospital beds. You can't deny that? I am an NHS activist and

:46:31.:46:36.

Labour speaks to protecting the NHS. As far as my political views, that

:46:37.:46:42.

is what I'm interested in, the NHS. Our junior doctors are some of the

:46:43.:46:46.

most obedient and hard-working individuals we have in society, far

:46:47.:46:50.

from being militants. We should be looking at them as those that want

:46:51.:46:55.

to care for us. Who was sure favourite Health Secretary? Steven

:46:56.:46:57.

Donnelly. -- Now, around this time next

:46:58.:47:05.

year the next President of the United States will take

:47:06.:47:07.

office. But between now and then,

:47:08.:47:09.

the country will embark on a long, complicated and unique democratic

:47:10.:47:12.

process to determine Right now, it's anyone's guess,

:47:13.:47:13.

since the field of candidates in both major parties

:47:14.:47:19.

is still very large. # Living in America. Donald Trump is

:47:20.:47:39.

calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the

:47:40.:47:40.

United States. And I have decided I'm a candidate

:47:41.:47:53.

for president of the United States of America. I will be the youngest

:47:54.:47:59.

woman president in the history of the United States. When I am

:48:00.:48:04.

president we are going to win the war on Isis and if we capture any of

:48:05.:48:09.

them alive they are getting a one-way ticket to Guantanamo Bay,

:48:10.:48:14.

Cuba. I would not advocate putting a Muslim in charge of this nation.

:48:15.:48:24.

I do not like them, I do not like Greenock is an ham. -- green eggs

:48:25.:48:40.

and Ham. Our government belongs to all of us, not just a handful of

:48:41.:48:47.

billionaires. Are you ready for a commander-in-chief who will kick

:48:48.:48:58.

Isis's... That was American television news.

:48:59.:48:59.

And with us now from our Oxford Studio, William Barnard,

:49:00.:49:01.

who's the UK Chair of Deomcrats Abroad.

:49:02.:49:04.

You could argue that the Republicans have too many candidates in the

:49:05.:49:18.

primary election system, do the Democrats have too few? Just a

:49:19.:49:22.

correction, I am the former chair. Bernie Sanders is there on the

:49:23.:49:26.

Democratic side and although he is moving up he is seen as running

:49:27.:49:31.

behind. There is some energy there on the Republican side. It is true

:49:32.:49:37.

that the establishment track the candidate is running on that track

:49:38.:49:41.

are swinging the vote so cleanly and neatly that Trump is at the top of

:49:42.:49:49.

the heap. Are you surprised Bernie Sanders, the main challenger to

:49:50.:49:53.

Hillary Clinton, has had a second wind and could do well in Iowa and

:49:54.:49:59.

New Hampshire? Not really. The primary as we get closer to the

:50:00.:50:06.

date. They are unique, times when voters know they are not choosing

:50:07.:50:10.

the person to hold office but choosing people to send a message

:50:11.:50:14.

sometimes. There is a great deal of frustration and anxiety towards the

:50:15.:50:21.

national system in the United States, and Bernie Sanders is

:50:22.:50:24.

representing that. A number of Republicans are in fact supporting

:50:25.:50:27.

Donald Trump. I would make the point that most people in the UK don't

:50:28.:50:31.

realise that American citizens who live in the UK can vote on super

:50:32.:50:41.

Jews they. -- super Tuesday. I will come back to that in a minute. If

:50:42.:50:46.

the campaign was to be derailed for Hillary Clinton, perhaps because of

:50:47.:50:50.

the increasing scandal about e-mails, or something just comes to

:50:51.:50:55.

blow her out of the water in this way, what with the Democratic

:50:56.:50:58.

establishment do? I wish you may would not want to go into the

:50:59.:51:01.

election with Bernie Sanders as their candidate? The Democratic

:51:02.:51:07.

establishment so-called does not really run the party, it is the

:51:08.:51:11.

voters in the primary 's who control the delegation, and it will be

:51:12.:51:23.

decided in primarys to come. The primary after New Hampshire tends to

:51:24.:51:28.

favour the Clinton candidacy but we will have to wait and see. The GOP

:51:29.:51:34.

establishment is waiting to work out who is the most likely candidate to

:51:35.:51:42.

see off Donald Trump or even Mr Cruz. Who is it likely to be? Marco

:51:43.:51:50.

Rubio is a senator from Florida, he is Cuban. His campaign has not

:51:51.:51:55.

caught fire and in New Hampshire he needs to be the second-place

:51:56.:51:59.

candidate to Donald Trump if Trump wins in New Hampshire. You have

:52:00.:52:04.

other leading Republicans and moderates like John Casey from Ohio,

:52:05.:52:08.

even Jeb Bush is coming back a little bit. Not from much? Yes, a

:52:09.:52:14.

low base, but they are all around ten points. It is the establishment

:52:15.:52:19.

track that is giving Donald Trump the advantage that he has at the

:52:20.:52:24.

moment. Who would the Democrats least like to see as the Republican

:52:25.:52:30.

nominee? I suspect they think curiously Rubio or John Casey would

:52:31.:52:37.

be a serious contender. There is still the feeling that the American

:52:38.:52:40.

people as they enter the fall and get closer to the election and

:52:41.:52:43.

realise the gravity of their choice, they will go away from a bluster rat

:52:44.:52:55.

like Trump. Cruz is very ideological. He will be feared by a

:52:56.:53:03.

good number. In terms of difficulty of winning, Rubio, probably, but

:53:04.:53:10.

that is for the Republicans to decide. Finally, will we get to know

:53:11.:53:16.

when the Democrats in the UK, the registered Democrats get to vote on

:53:17.:53:19.

super Tuesday, will we get to know what the split on the vote was? You

:53:20.:53:24.

will indeed, there will be partial returns because the votes counted on

:53:25.:53:29.

March the 1st and fifth in London and elsewhere in Edinburgh and

:53:30.:53:32.

Cambridge and St Andrews, those will be cast by mail and e-mail will not

:53:33.:53:43.

be available but you will know the returns from the voting centre.

:53:44.:53:45.

Thank you for joining us. One of our cameramen went behind the

:53:46.:53:59.

scenes to see what the Metropolitan Police have up their sleeves, this

:54:00.:54:03.

fine body of 50-year-olds, the average age, are the first of the

:54:04.:54:09.

new traffic wardens to keep traffic flowing. They have finished their

:54:10.:54:13.

basic training. How can we prevent increasing traffic causing a jam?

:54:14.:54:19.

Parking metres in the City of Westminster have done something but

:54:20.:54:22.

there are still scores of streets being turned into an official car

:54:23.:54:27.

parks. You have to park somewhere. All right, but not in the wrong

:54:28.:54:32.

places say Scotland Yard. From now on traffic wardens will see the

:54:33.:54:35.

rules are observed as well as informing motorists where they can

:54:36.:54:41.

park and coming down on those who do so in forbidden spots. It will be

:54:42.:54:45.

done courteously, no slanging matches. Just say, what awful

:54:46.:54:48.

weather we're having, and fine him ?2. Take his number, out with the

:54:49.:54:57.

fine blog, and when the driver comes back he must send the money by post.

:54:58.:55:04.

Other offences carry a fine of ?2. You know that was a long time ago,

:55:05.:55:07.

?2! Yes, the humble traffic warden,

:55:08.:55:08.

who 55 years ago issued But that's not all they did,

:55:09.:55:10.

they were also supposed to help the public

:55:11.:55:14.

find parking places. Only 18 remain today,

:55:15.:55:16.

but yesterday the Home Secretary, Theresa May, announced

:55:17.:55:20.

she was phasing them out in favour Well, with us to lament

:55:21.:55:22.

their demise, the motoring Is this a sad day or something to

:55:23.:55:35.

celebrate? It's probably a sad day, I never thought I would say this but

:55:36.:55:38.

they had legitimacy and accountability because they were

:55:39.:55:42.

employed by the police and trained to keep traffic flowing. When it was

:55:43.:55:47.

decriminalised and handed to local councils in the 90s we have seen

:55:48.:55:54.

parking revenue go up and up. From 2013-14 it was up by 12%, ?700

:55:55.:56:00.

million, parking profit for councils. That means that consumers,

:56:01.:56:04.

and I will call them consumers because they are, have spent ?1

:56:05.:56:09.

billion a year on parking fines that is not spent on the local economy

:56:10.:56:14.

and that is the issue. We all detest parking regulations, they are too

:56:15.:56:19.

Draconian. The point is that this enforcement is taking money out of

:56:20.:56:21.

the economy. You had a more enforcement is taking money out of

:56:22.:56:25.

view because of their connection to the police rather than the council?

:56:26.:56:33.

It seems to be about profit. As it said, you have the park somewhere

:56:34.:56:37.

and you must do it legally. Council tax has been frozen year after year

:56:38.:56:40.

by most councils in the country and this is one of the ways like

:56:41.:56:45.

planning applications, they have found stealthy ways of getting money

:56:46.:56:48.

from people that they don't get from the usual place. It is stopping the

:56:49.:56:50.

high Street functioning and the usual place. It is stopping the

:56:51.:56:55.

people buying things in local shops and they shop online. Let's go back

:56:56.:56:59.

to the idea of the traffic warden as such. Did it make a difference that

:57:00.:57:05.

they were billed as courteous and friendly? Many people do find civil

:57:06.:57:09.

enforcement officers lacking a bit of charm. They had an ability to

:57:10.:57:13.

reason with you and they were approachable and more friendly

:57:14.:57:20.

because they were accountable. This lot and everybody seems to have the

:57:21.:57:22.

same lament, are less than courteous and open to reason. Have you ever

:57:23.:57:27.

had a fight with a traffic warden? I don't drive which is a terrible

:57:28.:57:33.

thing to admit here! You can't say anything in this discussion. I bet

:57:34.:57:38.

you have had fights. Arguments, not flights. I did not mean fisticuffs.

:57:39.:57:47.

I said to want outside my local school -- I said to want outside my

:57:48.:57:51.

local school... You have been antagonising this traffic warden,

:57:52.:57:56.

said the police. It is not a job I would like. You become the least

:57:57.:58:01.

popular person. These people are just doing their job. And we are

:58:02.:58:06.

just trying to go to work and school and to the doctors and hospital.

:58:07.:58:11.

Let's make it easier. Make them a little less implacable and a little

:58:12.:58:15.

less inflexible. Why are there 18 left? They are literally a hangover.

:58:16.:58:27.

I thought they had gone. So did I. It is always best to leave

:58:28.:58:29.

altercations to 1's driver! The one o'clock news is starting

:58:30.:58:36.

over on BBC One now. I'll be back at 11.45 this

:58:37.:58:42.

evening for This Week, where I'll be joined

:58:43.:58:44.

by Michael Portillo, Labour MP Liz Kendall,

:58:45.:58:46.

Yasmin Alibhai-Brown and American He is a director of this

:58:47.:58:57.

Oscar-nominated movie The Big Short. I will be back tomorrow.

:58:58.:59:10.

Celebrate a country 4,000 years in the making.

:59:11.:59:12.

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