20/01/2016 Daily Politics


20/01/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn present live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions. They are joined by David Gauke and Owen Smith. Also includes the latest news from Westminster.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning folks - welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:35.:00:49.

He's outlawed raising income tax, national insurance or VAT

:00:50.:00:51.

but is the Chancellor about to raid your pension payments?

:00:52.:00:54.

The migration crisis brought over a million people to Europe last year

:00:55.:00:57.

- could changes to EU rules give more of them the right

:00:58.:01:00.

A quarter of the world used to be painted pink -

:01:01.:01:03.

is it time for Britain to relinquish the last vestiges of its Empire?

:01:04.:01:06.

And after Labour and the pollsters made their excuses for getting

:01:07.:01:09.

we countdown the best political excuses.

:01:10.:01:13.

I didn't do a great job this morning, I had a brain

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What I may need to do is face up to that and then move on.

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Brain fade is a regular occurrence on The Daily Politics!

:01:32.:01:36.

All that in the next 90 minutes and with us for the duration two

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politicians whose excuses weren't good enough to miss today's show,

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Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary, Owen Smith, and Treasury Minister,

:01:44.:01:45.

First this morning - are changes about to be made

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The Daily Mail splashes this morning with the claim that one and half

:01:57.:02:01.

million people could lose out on what its calling a "stealth tax

:02:02.:02:03.

raid to punish prudent savers" in the March Budget.

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And the i newspaper warns of a "Pension Pot Raid

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to Cut Back Deficit", with claims that the Chancellor

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is poised to reduce pension relief for higher rate tax payers

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Well - is there any truth in these stories?

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Who better to ask than a Treasury Minister?

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Should strive as and savers be rewarded rather than punished at the

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moment? The position is, as a government, is

:02:29.:02:33.

that we announced that we were going to review the application of

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pensions tax relief, we have made a number of changes over the last

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Parliament in terms of focusing it away from the very highest earners.

:02:41.:02:46.

It but in terms of what is going to be announced at the budget, I'm

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always interested to see lots of speculation in the press, but it is

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very clear... Is it speculation or briefing?

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It is speculation. We announced that we would look in the round at

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various radical options in respect of pensions tax relief and we are

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continuing to do that but no decisions have been made. If there

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is a decision that is made to change that that will be announced at the

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budget on March 16. There has not been much more that I can say other

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than that. You didn't answer the broad question, should strive as and

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savers be rewarded at the moment rather than punished? If you look at

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what we are doing at the moment as a government in terms of courage in

:03:29.:03:32.

saving and in terms of a new savers allowance, taking lots of savers out

:03:33.:03:36.

of income tax altogether, we've done a lot to help savers at a time when

:03:37.:03:41.

interest rates are low. That has not been helpful to a lot of savers. We

:03:42.:03:45.

have taken steps to help. Nobody wants to punish anybody, but it is,

:03:46.:03:52.

of course, right that we look in a very careful and consultative way at

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the way pensions tax relief works. It is a big part of our tax system

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and we need to insure that it is effective in terms of encouraging

:04:01.:04:05.

saving, and it is going in the right place.

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So you want to encourage saving, but you have said yourself just now that

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you're looking at proposals that perhaps might move away from higher

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rate taxpayers. You've had this consultation. Is introducing a flat

:04:18.:04:20.

rate of tax relief on pensions contributions one of the options on

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the table? It is one of the options set out in

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the consultation. You are considering it?

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That is no news, sorry not to give you and exclusive.

:04:34.:04:37.

Justice said it on the table. This was one of the options going

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back to the July budget in terms of looking at it so it is not a new

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thing. Higher rate taxpayers would lose

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out, wouldn't they? We are considering various options,

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but as I say, in terms of having an understanding of winners and losers

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we are looking at the options but it depends.

:04:57.:04:59.

Should it be on the table, should it even be there to raid the pension

:05:00.:05:03.

pots of higher income tax payers? I think it is always sensible when

:05:04.:05:07.

you have a large part of the tax system, and depending on how you

:05:08.:05:12.

measure it, pensions tax relief results in something like ?34

:05:13.:05:15.

billion of tax being foregone from the Exchequer.

:05:16.:05:20.

That is a lot of money, isn't it? To see if that is justified and see

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if it is working properly. Most of it goes to higher rate

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taxpayers. Yes, that is true and you would here

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argue much from the likes of the Institute of fiscal and, they are

:05:32.:05:33.

quite supportive of the current structure and make the argument that

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it should be at the marginal rate because those are the people who pay

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more tax -- fiscal studies. Then there is the counterargument that is

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made that it should be better targeted and that one should depart

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from that principle. Apologies for giving and on the one hand, on the

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other hand answer. Sure. These other type of things we are open and

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transparent about, but we're looking at them and we will then make a

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decision on the basis of the that results.

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Can you understand why already there are people on your own side who have

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claimed that that would be very unconservative? And they are worried

:06:13.:06:17.

about it. Even Mark Garnier on the Treasury Select Committee said it

:06:18.:06:19.

would be bad politics. Are they right?

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It depends. In a way it's an argument about an announcement of a

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policy that we haven't made. But what you have done...

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We have not set out the details, so it is a hypothetical question.

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You have two national newspapers who believe it is on the table and add

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me to delete they have not been sourced in terms of names, except

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for Mark Garnier. They obviously believe there is a strong sense this

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could happen and it would give the Treasury an awful lot of money that

:06:48.:06:50.

could be used to pay down the deficit. So you can understand why

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it is something that we are looking at, rightly or wrongly all stop

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you've imposed a lifetime allowance on pensions, again, hitting the

:06:58.:07:04.

aspirational again, you could say and cut the amount you can save each

:07:05.:07:07.

year into a pension so that would just be the next stage, to have a

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flat rate on tax contributions that would hit higher rate taxpayers.

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The point I would make is that it is right that this tax relief is

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reviewed. There are potentially some quite radical reforms that are out

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there. But we're not rushing into any particular decisions. Of course,

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we would want to have an understanding as to who would win

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and who would lose from that. It may well be that if you invite me back

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I'll be back here after the 16th of March.

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But then we will all know! What would be the point of that!

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To explaining saggy what we've done and why it is fair and right but we

:07:46.:07:49.

need to take the decision first. You say it is a radical proposal so

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to some extent you think it is controversial, or it would be for

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your own party and your own aside. At is it also notching, because by

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your own party and your own aside. legislating to stop raising income

:08:04.:08:06.

tax, National Insurance and VAT, you have straitjacketed yourself in the

:08:07.:08:08.

Treasury and don't have any other options to get money apart from

:08:09.:08:12.

stealth taxes like this? I don't think that is fair. What are the

:08:13.:08:16.

options? The OBR set up the fiscal statement

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in September. We are on course according to the OBR to have a

:08:24.:08:28.

budget surplus in 2019-20 of ?10 billion, which gives us a little bit

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of a buffer in terms of our target of making sure we have a surplus.

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But that is what the OBR is predicting. We are determined to

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deliver on that plan. Do you support the idea of a flat

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rate, it is redistributed in that sense?

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A rare moment of agreement between David and myself, I

:08:53.:08:55.

A rare moment of agreement between worth looking at. We need to look at

:08:56.:08:57.

what they are proposing. The stories in the papers are quite different,

:08:58.:09:00.

the Daily Mail stories about the stealthy way in which they have

:09:01.:09:03.

adduced the overall pension pots that you can hold, which I think is

:09:04.:09:07.

broadly a good progressive measure from the government -- they have

:09:08.:09:13.

reduced. Why is it stealthy? He announced it in the budget.

:09:14.:09:19.

He did it quietly, you could have ?100 million in the pension pot when

:09:20.:09:22.

Labour left off all stop it has gone down progressively. They didn't

:09:23.:09:29.

really trumpet it, so it was stealthy in that respect, it was not

:09:30.:09:32.

the headline of any budget. Alistair Darling didn't shout from

:09:33.:09:37.

the rooftops when he cut it. We described it as progressive but

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the current government have been a little bit more reticent about it.

:09:41.:09:44.

They have been open about it. It will affect higher rate taxpayers

:09:45.:09:49.

and cheese off the Daily Mail as we have seen this morning. We are much

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more comfortable with the notion that you do target pension tax

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relief for the wealthy in this country. It is only about 50,000 -

:09:57.:10:02.

60,000 battle the latest change affects. You didn't do injuring 13

:10:03.:10:05.

years in power. We should have done more.

:10:06.:10:09.

You still allowed people at the highest rate of tax to deduct that

:10:10.:10:14.

on their pension payments. I wasn't in parliament than.

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Know but it was your party. The bulk of the 34 million it cost the

:10:20.:10:24.

Exchequer to give this tax relief goes to the wealthier people of this

:10:25.:10:28.

country. Labour did nothing about that in 30 years.

:10:29.:10:33.

You are right, it is 70-30, lower basic rate taxpayers get about 30%

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of the benefits, and yet they pay around 70% of the relief of the

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overall amount and we should have done more to address that.

:10:43.:10:46.

You didn't do anything. Let me be very clear, I wasn't in

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government at the time and I'm in a position now, I can answer if you

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want for previous Labour chancellors or I Kantele what I think we should

:10:55.:10:58.

do. I agree with David it is worth something worth looking at -- I can

:10:59.:11:05.

tell you. Whether we should use the money to try and have a surplus of

:11:06.:11:08.

10 billion at the end of the Parliament, I think there are

:11:09.:11:12.

smarter and more progressive ways they could use that money, they

:11:13.:11:17.

could use it to write some of the other iniquities in the pension

:11:18.:11:21.

system, the fact in the 50s are losing out. They could aggressive

:11:22.:11:27.

more clearly some of the losers out of the single state pension. In

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terms of the flat rate I think it is potentially an interesting idea if

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they can get properly progressive and if they can guarantee that the

:11:35.:11:46.

losers will not have a detrimental affect. You will get an announcement

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of where we are. It is perfectly possible we will decide not to go

:11:53.:11:55.

ahead with any significant reform in this area. You will hear an update.

:11:56.:12:00.

We need to move on. Yesterday the President

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of the European Council, Donald Tusk, confirmed that

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a proposal on Britain's reformed membership of the EU would be

:12:05.:12:09.

tabled at next month's But reports this morning

:12:10.:12:12.

that there are plans to change EU rules on refugees could make life

:12:13.:12:19.

more difficult for David Cameron as he attempts to make the case

:12:20.:12:21.

for Britain to stay in Europe. Under current rules -

:12:22.:12:24.

known as the Dublin Convention - refugees have to claim asylum

:12:25.:12:28.

in the first European country But the "first country of entry"

:12:29.:12:30.

principle is under pressure - with southern European countries

:12:31.:12:36.

such as Greece and Italy accused of failing to register the 1.1

:12:37.:12:40.

million migrants that have passed through on the way

:12:41.:12:43.

to northern Europe. European Council president

:12:44.:12:45.

Donald Tusk has warned that Europe faces "grave consequences" if it

:12:46.:12:49.

can't agree a new system by March. While Britain is currently signed up

:12:50.:12:53.

to the Dublin Convention it has an opt-out on justice and home

:12:54.:12:55.

affairs rule changes. But concerns that huge numbers

:12:56.:13:02.

of migrants who may have arrived - and are still arriving -

:13:03.:13:05.

in the EU could end up in Britain won't help David Cameron meet

:13:06.:13:15.

the Conservatives' manifesto commitment of reducing net migration

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to tens of thousands. Net migration currently

:13:17.:13:19.

stands at 336,000 - so what might any rule changes mean

:13:20.:13:26.

for the Prime Minister's attempts We're joined now by Kate Hoey

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co-Chair of Labour's campaign to Leave the EU - Labour Leave -

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which launches today. Labour Leave, it is called. Let me

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come to you first, David Gauke. With the government look kindly on

:13:44.:13:46.

changing the Dublin agreement? The principle behind the Dublin

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agreement, in other words that you claim asylum in your first country

:13:50.:13:53.

that is safe is the right one. You wouldn't change it?

:13:54.:13:57.

We need to look at the particular details and there are maybe aspects

:13:58.:14:01.

of the proposal that are... It is not a detail, it is a principal.

:14:02.:14:05.

What we are told is that the commission is going to propose that

:14:06.:14:10.

they end that principle that you are automatically have to seek asylum in

:14:11.:14:13.

the first country you arrive in. What would the Government's

:14:14.:14:18.

attitudes beta that kind of change? We have to look at the whole

:14:19.:14:28.

proposal -- attitude towards that kind of change. The principle

:14:29.:14:30.

behind, you claim asylum in your first safe country, is one that we

:14:31.:14:39.

think is sensible. It is better than otherwise. They would have to be

:14:40.:14:42.

something significant that is when the package for us to be enthusiast

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it about that. If you don't want to change it and others do do you have

:14:46.:14:50.

a veto to stop it? My understanding is that we would be able to opt out,

:14:51.:14:55.

or not opt in to those arrangements but we would have to see what the

:14:56.:15:01.

proposed the what the precise proposal was. We would not have a

:15:02.:15:08.

veto? It is important to remember we are not in Schengen, so there may be

:15:09.:15:11.

a different arrangement for those countries outside Schengen as

:15:12.:15:14.

opposed to those that are inside Schengen. How many asylum seekers

:15:15.:15:20.

have been sent back to the European country in which they landed under

:15:21.:15:24.

the Dublin agreement? I don't have that number. It is quite hard to get

:15:25.:15:28.

the figures, as is often the case in these matters, it looks like it is

:15:29.:15:32.

under 1000 year. So it is demeaning is. a fifth a fact. In fact that

:15:33.:15:44.

there is a principle here which exists. The point being that they

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may be people who, if you scrap the principle, and this is one thing we

:15:49.:15:52.

would need to look at, a rescue could be more people might travel to

:15:53.:15:56.

the UK on the assumption that they might be able to... But the Dublin

:15:57.:16:01.

agreement applies to everyone but the Germans are not implementing it.

:16:02.:16:04.

What we need to have an understanding of is there will be a

:16:05.:16:08.

behavioural change where people are more likely to come to the UK if

:16:09.:16:14.

that does not apply. Isn't it unfair given that it clearly government's

:16:15.:16:19.

policy to campaign to stay the European Union, that for purely

:16:20.:16:23.

geographical reasons, Greece and Italy have to bear the brunt of the

:16:24.:16:27.

million arrivals and we do nothing to share the load? Isn't there a

:16:28.:16:34.

case to change the rules? I think your point about the United Kingdom

:16:35.:16:40.

does make a big contribution towards for example humanitarian help. That

:16:41.:16:43.

is in Syria. We don't take many migrants. But the issues are linked.

:16:44.:16:52.

Our humanitarian contribution in Syria and Turkey for example, is

:16:53.:16:57.

enabling more people to stay. But it's not. There's never evidence of

:16:58.:17:03.

that. There's 2000 day arriving. What difference is the Syrian or

:17:04.:17:10.

Turkish aid meaning? Where not even aware the Turkish money has been

:17:11.:17:14.

spent. There's no sign of it on ground. There's 2000 arriving. What

:17:15.:17:20.

difference is it making? If we're not active and provide support in

:17:21.:17:24.

the region, the risk of there being more refugees coming to Europe is

:17:25.:17:29.

likely to increase. That is unquantifiable. There was 1 million

:17:30.:17:35.

last year. But they could be higher. Whatever the number, you're not

:17:36.:17:44.

taking any. Correct? In terms of fairness, we did take 5000 Syrian

:17:45.:17:53.

refugees... From Syria. At one of the wealthier members of the EU is

:17:54.:17:57.

to put more money in than any other member state in terms of that

:17:58.:18:00.

humanitarian support. We are making a fair contribution. How many Labour

:18:01.:18:07.

MPs do you think will support this? I won a bet. I thought that would be

:18:08.:18:14.

your first question. We are in a minority within the PLP. What we

:18:15.:18:22.

have discovered just from the short time since the launch today, we have

:18:23.:18:27.

huge support from members of grassroots and Labour supporters,

:18:28.:18:31.

more importantly. Let me come back to my question. How many Labour MPs?

:18:32.:18:38.

This referendum will not be one to leave the EU by MPs. I understand

:18:39.:18:43.

that. Since you correctly guess my question, it means you've had plenty

:18:44.:18:46.

of time to think about the answer. Roughly how many? We will have the

:18:47.:18:52.

same number as we had two voted and supported a referendum whether

:18:53.:18:58.

Labour leadership didn't want it and roundabout 25, 30. That is

:18:59.:19:01.

irrelevant, because the campaign will be one by ordinary members of

:19:02.:19:07.

the British public. That but I understand about referendum. It's

:19:08.:19:12.

not just MPs who get to vote. Even I understand that. You must be pleased

:19:13.:19:18.

John Mills, your biggest private donor, once Jeremy Corbyn to allow a

:19:19.:19:24.

free vote on EU. Do you think you'll get one? Of course, the

:19:25.:19:28.

Conservatives are given free vote and the idea Labour wouldn't would

:19:29.:19:33.

be nonsense. John Mills led the campaign in 1975 to leave the common

:19:34.:19:40.

market. He has been long-standing supporter. You think you will get a

:19:41.:19:47.

free vote? Absolutely. I hope not and I'm committed to staying in

:19:48.:19:52.

Europe. Therefore, I hope we decide, as a party and I'm confident we

:19:53.:19:55.

will, our position is clear and therefore we have a weapon vote.

:19:56.:19:59.

Why, when the Conservatives are in government? Because... MPs know

:20:00.:20:08.

their constituents and the vast majority, the majority of Labour

:20:09.:20:14.

supporters, many of whom went on voted for Ukip precisely because of

:20:15.:20:18.

this issue and we want to win them back, our party is about

:20:19.:20:22.

reconnecting with voters, the idea we didn't want a referendum and as

:20:23.:20:25.

soon as we are back in opposition be agreed to one, two days later, now

:20:26.:20:29.

we would say we were we want a whipped vote is democracy at the

:20:30.:20:34.

window. The reason the Tories are having a free vote is because they

:20:35.:20:38.

couldn't possibly whip their party because they are divided on this

:20:39.:20:44.

issue. The Labour Party is not. We have a handful, less than 10% of the

:20:45.:20:53.

PLP. At the moment. Therefore we are in a luxurious position of knowing

:20:54.:20:56.

what our party critical position is and are able to have a position.

:20:57.:21:04.

It's very interesting... It's mandate we both stood on. I did not.

:21:05.:21:11.

I want to a fundamental change. What I would say is Jeremy Corbyn, our

:21:12.:21:15.

leader, is perfectly relaxed about the Labour campaign and he and John

:21:16.:21:20.

McDonald spent loads of airtime in the same lobby as those of us... I'm

:21:21.:21:28.

relaxed about it, too. I still think we have a very clear position. Can I

:21:29.:21:34.

just clarify this. The government position is that there will be a

:21:35.:21:37.

government policy, almost certainly in favour of staying to remain.

:21:38.:21:42.

Those Cabinet ministers who don't agree with that can go their own way

:21:43.:21:47.

for the duration of the referendum. Will Shadow Cabinet members be

:21:48.:21:51.

allowed to do that if they don't agree with the party line? I'm not

:21:52.:21:57.

in charge of that, am I? My view is we should have a whipped vote. A

:21:58.:22:03.

settled Labour Party policy, pro-European, and I think we should

:22:04.:22:07.

have a clear position, unlike the Conservatives. So if shadow

:22:08.:22:11.

ministers disagree with the party line should not be allowed? That is

:22:12.:22:18.

my view. We did a clear pro-European position and deflect responsibility

:22:19.:22:21.

and stick together and vote for Europe. I kind of stitch up but in

:22:22.:22:28.

the establishment and Labour? Unfortunately, it'll be the public

:22:29.:22:30.

to decide and the last thing they want the moment is a stitch up

:22:31.:22:34.

between politicians cosy at Westminster out in the country the

:22:35.:22:39.

mood very very different. Kate, you about a moment ago when his people

:22:40.:22:42.

in the country would decide the referendum. Self-evidently right. It

:22:43.:22:47.

is our job, I think, to provide leadership. You are trying to do

:22:48.:22:50.

that by making a case for us leaving Europe and I'm being clear, the

:22:51.:22:53.

Labour Party which you're a member of come in a minority, is going to

:22:54.:22:59.

make a case to the country and say we should stay. And we are finding,

:23:00.:23:02.

across the country now, Parliamentary parties are wanting to

:23:03.:23:08.

have that debate, inviting people. We need to have that debate. We have

:23:09.:23:13.

never had that debate in the party really, since the end of the Neil

:23:14.:23:19.

Kinnock error. Is it your view, as I understand it, you had 200,000 new

:23:20.:23:23.

members since Jeremy Corbyn became leader, not since you lost the

:23:24.:23:27.

election but a lot after that, so are there any indications of what

:23:28.:23:34.

the attitudes towards Europe? We are finding genuinely that new people

:23:35.:23:38.

coming in at a very different attitude to this idea that the EU

:23:39.:23:43.

was all about workers rights. Social Europe is finished. The EU project

:23:44.:23:48.

is on its way out. What are you game planning for the timing of the

:23:49.:23:52.

referendum? We are still game planning for a July but it's more

:23:53.:23:57.

likely to be September. The Prime Minister wants a piece of white

:23:58.:24:01.

paper to be put through as quickly as possible. I think tuna. June

:24:02.:24:10.

would be too near. All right. -- I think tuna. We will see a lot

:24:11.:24:18.

between now and then. Any cabinet members which might come over to

:24:19.:24:23.

your side? One or two. Which ones? It's not my place to decide. Current

:24:24.:24:28.

Cabinet ministers would like to be able to campaign? Yes. We will think

:24:29.:24:35.

about that. You have to go and ask them.

:24:36.:24:37.

Now - the bookies now have Donald Trump as their firm favourite

:24:38.:24:40.

to win the Republican nomination and last night he got another boost

:24:41.:24:43.

- the endorsement of the former governor of Alaska

:24:44.:24:45.

and vice-presidential candidate - Sarah Palin.

:24:46.:24:47.

Are you ready for a Commander-in-Chief...

:24:48.:24:50.

You ready for a Commander-in-Chief

:24:51.:24:54.

who will let our warriors do their job and go kick ISIS' ass?

:24:55.:24:59.

Ready for someone who will secure our borders

:25:00.:25:05.

to secure our jobs and to secure our homes?

:25:06.:25:09.

I'm here to support the next President of the United States,

:25:10.:25:16.

Now - despite a petition with over half a million signatures calling

:25:17.:25:25.

for Donald Trump to be banned from the UK -

:25:26.:25:27.

and a parliamentary debate in which he was branded

:25:28.:25:29.

"an attention seeker", a "fool", a "buffoon",

:25:30.:25:31.

a "demagogue" and a "wazzock" - Mr Trump will still be free to come

:25:32.:25:36.

That caused the new York times a few problems and NBC and CBS.

:25:37.:25:46.

But he won't be able to get hold of one of these.

:25:47.:25:49.

That's right, because if you look at the small print on our website

:25:50.:25:52.

carefully, you have to be a UK resident to qualify and be able

:25:53.:25:56.

MUSIC: C'mon Everybody by Led Zeppelin

:25:57.:26:19.

# I want your love, I want your love #

:26:20.:26:26.

I'm going to drive off in this little thing now.

:26:27.:26:29.

MUSIC: We Don't Talk Anymore by Cliff Richard

:26:30.:26:37.

# It's so funny how we don't talk anymore #

:26:38.:26:41.

Now, we exist to promote and to protect

:26:42.:26:42.

MUSIC: Can You Feel The Force by The Real Thing

:26:43.:26:51.

We bring them down if they don't keep this promise.

:26:52.:27:03.

MUSIC: Ain't No Stopping Us Now by McFadden and Whitehead

:27:04.:27:07.

# Ain't no stopping us now, we've got the groove

:27:08.:27:12.

# There's been so many things that's held us down

:27:13.:27:17.

# But now it looks like things are finally coming around. #

:27:18.:27:27.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,

:27:28.:27:30.

send your answer to our special quiz email address

:27:31.:27:32.

Entries must arrive by 12:30pm today, and you can see the full

:27:33.:27:36.

terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website

:27:37.:27:38.

But you have to be resident in Britain. You do. I can feel a

:27:39.:27:52.

challenge coming on. It's coming up to midday here -

:27:53.:27:54.

just take a look at Big Ben - It's a glorious cold bright winter

:27:55.:28:02.

's day here. Prime Minister's Questions are a few moments away.

:28:03.:28:07.

Laura is with us. We can't work out what Jeremy Corbyn is going to go on

:28:08.:28:15.

today? Today there were protests in Westminster and Jeremy Corbyn is no

:28:16.:28:18.

stranger to that and what many young people were protesting about today

:28:19.:28:25.

where the abolition of grants to loans,, the conversion which George

:28:26.:28:29.

Osborne brought in in the summer and it's likely Jeremy Corbyn will raise

:28:30.:28:32.

theirs. There was an opposition they debate in the house yesterday I

:28:33.:28:36.

believe we're Labour MPs raised the issue and, in a sense, it pushes

:28:37.:28:40.

lots and lots of buttons for him, and speaks to many of his concerns

:28:41.:28:45.

about generational fairness, it's something he has found, currency

:28:46.:28:48.

with young people in terms of a future for them and it's quite a

:28:49.:28:51.

difficult sell for the government, the sort of trick is for want of a

:28:52.:28:57.

better word, student at the bottom of the end of the income threshold

:28:58.:29:00.

and their family will get bigger loans. But they are already getting

:29:01.:29:06.

loans for their fees. I think the Scottish Government reined back on

:29:07.:29:10.

grants, as well. The problem there was the poorer students, though they

:29:11.:29:16.

got fees, that's a future payment they may, doesn't stop them going to

:29:17.:29:19.

university, but they need something to live on and it was the grant

:29:20.:29:22.

which allowed them to live. Indeed, it was one of the very carefully

:29:23.:29:29.

controversial packages of the coalition raising fees, but raising

:29:30.:29:34.

the amount of support people at the bottom got and the coalition would

:29:35.:29:38.

always trumpet what they see as a success as they raised fees but

:29:39.:29:41.

poorer students did not stay away from university. The concern now is

:29:42.:29:45.

those poor students who are still entitled to grants lose them all

:29:46.:29:49.

together, and we would inevitably see a gradual change where poor

:29:50.:29:54.

students started to stay away from university. It may well be Jeremy

:29:55.:29:58.

Corbyn is hard to predict, last week I said it would be incredible if you

:29:59.:30:02.

didn't raise the junior doctors strike and he didn't. He can hardly

:30:03.:30:06.

raise this week since there's been an abeyance while negotiations are

:30:07.:30:11.

going on. Indeed. I think it is watching you may pick up your

:30:12.:30:17.

advice. It brings a lot of bells for Mr Corbyn and gives the government

:30:18.:30:23.

some problems. If the Shadow Cabinet reshuffle over? I thought that was

:30:24.:30:26.

until yesterday, yet another name popped into my inbox. On days 16. Do

:30:27.:30:38.

you want to check your phone while we're chatting? What are they been

:30:39.:30:43.

saying the last 25 minutes before I sat down in the studio. Would you

:30:44.:30:50.

like to consider your position? Not yet. What name came in? Now you're

:30:51.:30:57.

asking me. The names are now completed with somebody who will not

:30:58.:31:00.

be the Shadow Cabinet, and additional appointment to the front

:31:01.:31:05.

bench. There you go, even the Tories know. The Prime Minister will... You

:31:06.:31:12.

are 50% right. The Prime Minister, whatever he is asked, will somehow I

:31:13.:31:16.

suggest work in the latest unemployment figures. It would be

:31:17.:31:19.

surprised if he didn't and which Prime Minister would not want to

:31:20.:31:22.

trumpet what our record employment figures and, in a sense, not only is

:31:23.:31:27.

it a record label want to boast about, but also something very

:31:28.:31:30.

difficult for the Labour Party. We know from yesterday's report about

:31:31.:31:35.

what went wrong into the election, one of the things Ed Miliband did

:31:36.:31:38.

not do was win back voters trust on the economy. These figures suggest,

:31:39.:31:43.

under this government, the economy is improving therefore making it

:31:44.:31:50.

harder for Labour to pull back its power and resonance on that issue.

:31:51.:31:55.

It's interesting, as the labour market tightens, average earnings

:31:56.:31:58.

are not showing much sign of life. It's going up by about 2%. It is OK,

:31:59.:32:05.

when inflation is effectively zero, but it's not huge, is it? Remember,

:32:06.:32:12.

when one of the gambles the government is taking is the private

:32:13.:32:15.

sector will pick up the slack in terms of wages. Let's see what's

:32:16.:32:19.

coming up and go straight to the Commons.

:32:20.:32:26.

I shall have further such meetings later today. Gareth Thomas. If you

:32:27.:32:34.

have worked hard for a company and helped it succeed, surely you should

:32:35.:32:37.

be allowed to benefit a little from the profits that that company makes.

:32:38.:32:41.

Does the Prime Minister think it is time for companies like Sports

:32:42.:32:45.

Direct to follow the example of the best businesses and give share a

:32:46.:32:51.

small percentage of the profits? We have encouraged companies to have

:32:52.:32:53.

profit-sharing arrangements and we took action in previous budgets to

:32:54.:32:57.

do that, but we are going further than that to make sure there is for

:32:58.:33:00.

the first time in our country a national minimum wage, which will

:33:01.:33:05.

come in in April this year. That means, for the lowest paid people in

:33:06.:33:10.

this country on the minimum wage it will be a 7.5% pay rise in April

:33:11.:33:13.

under a Conservative government. Mr Speaker, with mounting global

:33:14.:33:23.

economic uncertainty, it was comforting to see this morning's

:33:24.:33:27.

figures showing record UK employment. In this new age of kind.

:33:28.:33:33.

Consensual politics does my Right Honourable friend agree that every

:33:34.:33:37.

member of this house should welcome the news that from North Yorkshire

:33:38.:33:40.

to North London Britain is back in work?

:33:41.:33:44.

My honourable friend is absolutely right. Over the last year, we've

:33:45.:33:53.

actually seen more people in work in every region in our country. That is

:33:54.:33:58.

something that is welcome. The unemployment figures this morning,

:33:59.:34:01.

which the House might not have had time to see, are very welcome. The

:34:02.:34:07.

unemployment rate is now the lowest rate in nearly a decade at 5.1%. The

:34:08.:34:11.

unemployment rate is now lower than it was at the start of the

:34:12.:34:15.

recession. The latest figures show unemployment falling by another

:34:16.:34:20.

99,000. And we have today in our country the record number of people

:34:21.:34:24.

in work ever in our history and a record number of women in work.

:34:25.:34:29.

Since I've become Prime Minister 2.3 million more people in work, and I'm

:34:30.:34:32.

sure that is something the whole house can welcome. Jeremy Corbyn.

:34:33.:34:41.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, it's nice to get such a warm welcome.

:34:42.:34:53.

HECKERLING. If you will allow me for one moment.

:34:54.:34:58.

Can the Prime Minister tell the House where in his election

:34:59.:35:02.

manifesto he put his plan to abolish maintenance grants for students?

:35:03.:35:11.

First of all, people will recognise no welcome for the thousands of

:35:12.:35:15.

people who found work in our country, what a depressing

:35:16.:35:20.

spectacle. In our manifesto we said we would cut the deficit and we

:35:21.:35:24.

would uncap student numbers, and we've done both.

:35:25.:35:29.

Jeremy Corbyn. There is not such joy in Port

:35:30.:35:37.

Tolbert and other places that have lost steel jobs and they want their

:35:38.:35:42.

government is their industries. The Prime Minister has form in terms of

:35:43.:35:45.

student maintenance grants because the Conservative manifesto there was

:35:46.:35:55.

no mention either... Are you done? Let me very gently say to the

:35:56.:36:07.

dedicated Prime Minister's parliamentary private secretary...

:36:08.:36:16.

Compose yourself, man. Being a statesman does not include

:36:17.:36:22.

chuntering. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker forced up as I was

:36:23.:36:27.

saying, the Prime Minister has form here because there was no mention of

:36:28.:36:31.

tax credit cuts in the manifesto either. This proposal will affect

:36:32.:36:38.

500,000 students, not in his manifesto. I have a question from a

:36:39.:36:41.

student by the name of Liam, who says: I'm training to be a

:36:42.:36:45.

mathematics teacher and will now come out at the end of my course to

:36:46.:36:51.

debts in excess of ?50,000, which is roughly twice as much as what his

:36:52.:36:56.

annual income would be. Why is Liam being put into such debt?

:36:57.:37:02.

What I would say to Liam is he is now in a country where the

:37:03.:37:05.

university system has more people going to university than ever

:37:06.:37:10.

before, and more people from low-income backgrounds going to

:37:11.:37:13.

university than ever before. In addition, what I'd say to me, and I

:37:14.:37:17.

wish him well, is he will not pay back a penny of his loan until he's

:37:18.:37:24.

earning ?21,000. He will not start paying back in full until he's

:37:25.:37:29.

earning ?35,000. And our policy is actually going to put more money in

:37:30.:37:32.

the hands of students likely, which is why we are doing it. By contrast,

:37:33.:37:37.

the Labour policy, which is to scrap the loans and scrap the fees, which

:37:38.:37:42.

would cost ?10 billion, would mean going back to a situation where

:37:43.:37:47.

people went out, worked hard, pay their taxes for the elite to go to

:37:48.:37:51.

university. We are on capping aspiration and he wants to put a cap

:37:52.:37:57.

on it. Jeremy Corbyn.

:37:58.:38:02.

I'm pleased to say Liam is trying to be a maths teacher which might be

:38:03.:38:04.

able to help the Prime Minister because he did say he was earning

:38:05.:38:10.

?25,000, which is more than ?21,000, if that is a help. In 2010 his

:38:11.:38:18.

government, in 2010, Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister's government troubled

:38:19.:38:23.

tuition fees to ?9,000, defending it by saying they would be increasing

:38:24.:38:29.

maintenance grants for students from less well-off backgrounds. They are

:38:30.:38:34.

now scrapping those very same grants they used to boast about being

:38:35.:38:41.

increased. Where is the sense in doing this? Why are they abolishing

:38:42.:38:44.

those maintenance grants? The sense in doing this is we want

:38:45.:38:49.

to uncap university places, so as many young people in our country who

:38:50.:38:55.

want to go to university can go to university. And that's what we are

:38:56.:38:59.

doing. Before too much shouting from the party opposite, when they were

:39:00.:39:04.

in government it was Labour that introduced the fees and loans

:39:05.:39:12.

system. Given this is the week we are meant to be learning the lessons

:39:13.:39:18.

of the last election, let me read a lesson from someone, frankly, I

:39:19.:39:22.

rather miss, Mr Ed Balls, who wrote this this week in the Times higher

:39:23.:39:26.

education supplement. He said this: we clearly didn't find a sustainable

:39:27.:39:31.

way forward for the financing of higher education. If the electorate

:39:32.:39:34.

think they have the answers for the future they will support you --

:39:35.:39:38.

think you have the answers. When they were in government they

:39:39.:39:43.

supported fees and loans, when we were in opposition we made the

:39:44.:39:47.

mistake that they did. If you want to be on the side of aspiration, if

:39:48.:39:51.

you want to be on the side of more university students and help people

:39:52.:39:54.

make the most of their lives, the system we've got is one that is

:39:55.:39:58.

working and the numbers prove it. Jeremy Corbyn.

:39:59.:40:03.

Mr Speaker, that is from the very same Prime Minister who is taking

:40:04.:40:07.

away the grants that are designed to help the poorest with our society

:40:08.:40:11.

and give them access to higher education. I want to ask him about

:40:12.:40:17.

one particular group that are being targeted by this government, student

:40:18.:40:22.

nurses, not mentioned in the manifesto, the repayments that

:40:23.:40:26.

student nurses will have to pay when they qualify amount to an effective

:40:27.:40:32.

pay cut of ?900 for each nurse. Why is he punishing them when we need

:40:33.:40:37.

these nurses within the NHS? First of all there are 6700 more nurses

:40:38.:40:41.

than when I became Prime Minister, but the facts are these: the Labour

:40:42.:40:46.

Party does not want to base up to difficult decisions but let me give

:40:47.:40:50.

him this one statistic. Today, two out of three people who want to

:40:51.:40:54.

become a nurse can't become a nurse because of the bursary system. So,

:40:55.:40:58.

by introducing the loans nurses will get more money, we will train more

:40:59.:41:04.

nurses and bring in fewer from overseas. It's good for nurses, it's

:41:05.:41:09.

good for the NHS and good for our country, and it's only a Labour

:41:10.:41:12.

Party that is so short-sighted and anti-aspirational that it can't see

:41:13.:41:14.

it. Jeremy Corbyn!

:41:15.:41:19.

The Prime Minister and I would probably agree that we need to be

:41:20.:41:23.

spending more and directing more resources in dealing with the mental

:41:24.:41:27.

health crisis in this country. I've got a question from somebody who

:41:28.:41:30.

wants to help us get through this crisis by becoming a mental health

:41:31.:41:36.

nurse. It's a woman called Vicky from York, and she has a very real

:41:37.:41:40.

problem. I wouldn't have been able to or chosen to study to be a mental

:41:41.:41:44.

health nurse without a bursary for the following reasons: I'm a single

:41:45.:41:48.

month I need support for childcare costs and have debts from a previous

:41:49.:41:52.

degree, I'm a mature student of 33 and wouldn't take on further debts

:41:53.:41:56.

which would be impossible for me to pay back and be fair on my daughter.

:41:57.:42:00.

She is somebody who we need in our NHS. We need her as a mental health

:42:01.:42:06.

nurse. We are losing her skill, her dedication, her aspiration to help

:42:07.:42:13.

the Anne Tyler community. Two out of three Vickys who turn up

:42:14.:42:19.

who want to be nurses are turned away by the current system, so we

:42:20.:42:22.

are bringing people in from Bulgaria or Romania, or the other side of the

:42:23.:42:27.

world, to do nursing jobs we should be training British people to do.

:42:28.:42:32.

The British people want to train as nurses, the NHS wants those nurses,

:42:33.:42:36.

this Government will fund those nurses, so help let's them train and

:42:37.:42:39.

improve our health service. Jeremy Corbyn!

:42:40.:42:44.

The problem is, you are expecting Vicky and others like her to fund

:42:45.:42:49.

themselves by paying back a debt, or paying back from their wages in the

:42:50.:42:54.

future. I don't think she has been very reassured by the Prime

:42:55.:42:58.

Minister's answers today, unconvincing to her. However, he

:42:59.:43:02.

wasn't very good at convincing the honourable member for Lewes, nurse

:43:03.:43:13.

herself, I would have struggled to undertake my training given the

:43:14.:43:17.

changes to the bursary scheme. Nine out of ten hospitals currently have

:43:18.:43:21.

a nurse shortage. Isn't what he is proposing for the nurse bursary

:43:22.:43:24.

scheme going to exacerbate the crisis make it worse for everybody

:43:25.:43:30.

and our NHS less effective than more effective? What is his answer to

:43:31.:43:36.

that point? I will give him a direct answer, which is we're going to see

:43:37.:43:40.

10,000 extra nurse degree places because of this policy. Because we

:43:41.:43:43.

are effectively on capping the numbers that can go into nursing. I

:43:44.:43:48.

have to say, Mr Speaker, this week has all been of a piece, a retreat

:43:49.:43:52.

of the Labour Party into the past. We've seen it with wanting to bring

:43:53.:43:57.

back secondary picketing, wanting to bring back flying pickets, we've

:43:58.:44:00.

seen it with the idea of wanting to stop businesses paying dividends and

:44:01.:44:04.

with the absurd idea that nucleus of rings should go to sea without their

:44:05.:44:09.

missiles. Anyone watching this Labour Party, and is not the leader,

:44:10.:44:14.

it's the whole party, they are a risk to national security, a risk to

:44:15.:44:18.

economic security, a risk to our health service and to the security

:44:19.:44:22.

of every family in our country. CHEERING

:44:23.:44:31.

SPEAKER: Edward Aga. Yelena Gloucestershire and the East

:44:32.:44:34.

Midlands continue to be a powerhouse of jobs and growth attracting

:44:35.:44:39.

investment from the UK and beyond and we are rightly proud of the

:44:40.:44:47.

success of our local businesses in Charnwood. Does the continued

:44:48.:44:50.

ability to attract foreign investment help -- be helped or

:44:51.:44:59.

hindered if secondary picketing were reintroduced? The East Midlands is a

:45:00.:45:02.

powerhouse of our economy and we've seen employment in the East Midlands

:45:03.:45:07.

go up by 17,000. When businesses look at whether to invest in

:45:08.:45:11.

Britain, whether their overseas businesses, or indeed British

:45:12.:45:13.

businesses, they want to know we are going to have good labour relations

:45:14.:45:18.

and not a return to the 1970s of secondary strikes and flying

:45:19.:45:22.

pickets. It is extraordinary for a party that spent so long trying to

:45:23.:45:27.

cast off that image of being in favour of these appalling industrial

:45:28.:45:29.

practices has now elected a leader and is backing a leader who would

:45:30.:45:33.

take us right back to the 1970s will stop

:45:34.:45:38.

SPEAKER: Angus Robertson. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker.

:45:39.:45:43.

World attention on the conflict in the Middle East is focused on Syria

:45:44.:45:51.

and Iraq, and much less so on the catastrophe in Yemen causing

:45:52.:45:54.

thousands of people to lose their lives and millions of people to lose

:45:55.:45:58.

their homes. Can the prime Minster tell the House what the UK

:45:59.:46:00.

Government is doing to support peace in Yemen?

:46:01.:46:07.

We can with all the people taking part in this conflict to encourage

:46:08.:46:10.

them to get round a negotiating table, as they have done recently in

:46:11.:46:16.

order to bring about what business is Aryan Yemen, a government that

:46:17.:46:19.

can represent all of the people. You've got to make sure that both

:46:20.:46:24.

Sunni and Shia are properly represented in their country and

:46:25.:46:28.

that's the only way we can meet our national interest to back a

:46:29.:46:30.

government in Yemen that will drive the terrorists, including Al-Qaeda

:46:31.:46:36.

meet Arabian Peninsular, AQAP, out of Yemen, because they have been and

:46:37.:46:39.

they are a direct threat to the British citizens of Britain.

:46:40.:46:45.

Angus Robertson. Thousands of civilians have been killed in Yemen

:46:46.:46:52.

including a large number by the Saudi air force using British built

:46:53.:46:55.

planes with pilots trained by British instructors dropping British

:46:56.:47:00.

made bombs and co-ordinated by the Saudis in the presence of British

:47:01.:47:06.

military advisers. Isn't it time for the Prime Minister to admit that

:47:07.:47:10.

Britain is effectively taking part in a war in Yemen that is costing

:47:11.:47:16.

thousands of civilian lives, and he has not sought Parliamentary

:47:17.:47:17.

approval to do this? I think the right honourable

:47:18.:47:27.

gentleman started in a serious place but then seriously wandered off. It

:47:28.:47:32.

is in our interests that we back the legitimate Government of Yemen and

:47:33.:47:38.

it's right to do that. We have some of the most stringent arms measures

:47:39.:47:41.

controlled in the country anywhere in the world but to be absolutely

:47:42.:47:45.

clear, we are not a member of the Saudi led coalition. Additional two

:47:46.:47:51.

personnel are not directly involved in the coalition operations,

:47:52.:47:54.

personnel are not carrying out strikes, directing or conducting

:47:55.:47:58.

operations in Yemen or selecting targets and not involved in the

:47:59.:48:02.

Saudi targeting decision making process but, yes, do we provide

:48:03.:48:05.

training and advice and help in order to make sure countries do obey

:48:06.:48:11.

the dorms of humanitarian law? Yes, we do. Thank you. The recent floods

:48:12.:48:19.

in the North of England have caused untold misery to people,

:48:20.:48:23.

householders, farmers, livestock and also what we need is a long-term

:48:24.:48:31.

strategy for floods, and I know the Prime Minister has done a lot of

:48:32.:48:34.

work across the country, some rivers need to be dredged, some need to be

:48:35.:48:38.

slowed down and we need to manage the floodwaters in a better way.

:48:39.:48:42.

Along with our long-term economic plan, can have a long-term plan on

:48:43.:48:46.

floods? We absolutely can do and that's exactly what the environment

:48:47.:48:54.

and agriculture secretary is doing. We have an unprecedented six-year

:48:55.:48:58.

commitment of ?2.3 billion but as important as the money, is making

:48:59.:49:03.

sure we have a joined up approach to dredging in some places, building

:49:04.:49:06.

flood barriers in others, managing the water in landscapes, including

:49:07.:49:12.

farming practices in a holistic way to use all the resources we had to

:49:13.:49:17.

reduce the likelihood of floods. There is concern on all sides about

:49:18.:49:23.

the recent rather patchwork approach to constitutional reform. We need a

:49:24.:49:26.

new act of union, one which sets out the rules and responsibilities so

:49:27.:49:32.

that the process of devolution by consent will be both fairer and more

:49:33.:49:37.

comprehensive. Really meet with me and other members of the

:49:38.:49:42.

constitutional reform group to discuss the new union? We come from

:49:43.:49:45.

all the parties including experts such as Lord Lisvane, the former

:49:46.:49:52.

clerk Robert Rogers. I'm very happy to meet with the honourable lady.

:49:53.:49:57.

She has great expertise in this area. What I believe, I think there

:49:58.:50:02.

would be common interest in what we're trying to do with the

:50:03.:50:06.

Government is find a devolution settlement that works for all of the

:50:07.:50:11.

devolved nations of the UK. Including importantly for England as

:50:12.:50:15.

well. I think we've made some very good progress with a further

:50:16.:50:18.

devolution measures we've had in Scotland and in Wales, the

:50:19.:50:22.

maintenance of a devolved assembly in Northern Ireland, if a further

:50:23.:50:25.

mother measures we can take I'm happy to see them. I don't believe

:50:26.:50:31.

simply writing things down in one place will solve the problem but I'm

:50:32.:50:38.

happy to meet with her. Does he agree with me that our nuclear

:50:39.:50:43.

deterrent only works against our nation 's enemies if our nuclear

:50:44.:50:46.

submarines are equipped with nuclear missiles? And those who do not

:50:47.:50:54.

believe that have a defence policy inspired by the Beatles's yellow

:50:55.:51:00.

submarine and while they may twist and shout, their current leader

:51:01.:51:07.

certainly needs help. I congratulate my honourable friend on his

:51:08.:51:11.

ingenious question. There is a comic element to sending submarines to see

:51:12.:51:19.

without missiles in but it is absolutely serious because the

:51:20.:51:23.

deterrent has been on a cross-party basis, a key part of our defence and

:51:24.:51:30.

making sure we have got the ultimate insurance policy which we support on

:51:31.:51:33.

this side and should vote on in this House and all I can say, when it

:51:34.:51:37.

comes to the Beatles, I suspect the Leader of the Opposition prefers

:51:38.:51:40.

back in the USSR. CHEERING

:51:41.:51:50.

. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Just under two weeks ago, a 16-year-old boy was

:51:51.:51:59.

murdered in a knife attack in my constituency. I'm sure the whole

:52:00.:52:04.

House will want to join me in sending our deepest condolences to

:52:05.:52:07.

Charlie 's friends and families. Given that knife crime in London

:52:08.:52:10.

rose last year and the number of teenage deaths peaked to its highest

:52:11.:52:15.

level in seven years, what action will be taken to make sure we don't

:52:16.:52:19.

return to the days when knife crime in London are affecting young people

:52:20.:52:24.

is merely a fact of life? He speaks for the whole House and I'm sure the

:52:25.:52:29.

whole House will want to be with in spirit, the family and friends of

:52:30.:52:33.

Charlie who lost his life in this attack for that there's nothing

:52:34.:52:37.

anyone can say that will give them the comfort that they seek. What I

:52:38.:52:40.

would say is we have toughened the law in terms of knife crime offences

:52:41.:52:46.

and the level of custodial sentences people are getting for those crimes.

:52:47.:52:50.

The police have done a huge amount to try and crack down on knife crime

:52:51.:52:56.

and that's why it has fallen by 17% since 2010 but there's still more in

:52:57.:53:00.

terms of educating children and young people about the dangers of

:53:01.:53:06.

carrying a knife. The carrier of this crime ends up the victim of the

:53:07.:53:10.

attack often so we also need better education. Does the Prime Minister

:53:11.:53:17.

agree with me that encoding people in this country to learn the English

:53:18.:53:24.

language has a unifying effect? It AIDS integration and helps to create

:53:25.:53:29.

national identity and social cohesion and therefore should be

:53:30.:53:35.

promoted. He is absolutely right. I think the most important thing in

:53:36.:53:39.

our country is to make sure that everybody can take advantages of the

:53:40.:53:43.

opportunities in our country to work, get training, go to

:53:44.:53:47.

university. This is an opportunity country but there's no opportunity

:53:48.:53:50.

for people if you don't speak the language. That's why we are

:53:51.:53:55.

targeting money at those people very often women who have been stuck at

:53:56.:53:59.

home sometimes by the men in the House and make sure they can get

:54:00.:54:03.

their English language skills they need. Let me make one other point

:54:04.:54:08.

because this is so important. When I sat in a mosque in Leeds this week,

:54:09.:54:12.

a young person said how important it is that in mammas speak English

:54:13.:54:17.

speakers if you have young people, sometimes it's big English

:54:18.:54:22.

themselves but not Arabic, they need someone to guide them away from ices

:54:23.:54:25.

and their poisonous rhetoric so speaking English is important for

:54:26.:54:34.

Avril and, in mammas included. Young people in Southampton have seen

:54:35.:54:37.

themselves frozen out of the living wage and housing benefits and face

:54:38.:54:43.

the downgrading or closure of the colleges and sixth form colleges

:54:44.:54:46.

many of them get their qualification from and now we see the ending of

:54:47.:54:50.

maintenance grants for those young people who want a good university.

:54:51.:54:56.

-- Imams. Whatever primers they got it into young people trying to make

:54:57.:55:00.

their way in life? We have record numbers going to university, record

:55:01.:55:03.

numbers taking on apprenticeships, record numbers in work for that

:55:04.:55:09.

today the unemployment figures show a record low in the unemployment

:55:10.:55:14.

rate amongst those people who have left school and I would say one of

:55:15.:55:19.

the reasons why a Labour MP in this south of England is as rare as hen

:55:20.:55:23.

's teeth as big as they talked down our country and opportunity in it. I

:55:24.:55:30.

would like to thank the Prime Minister for launching the delivery

:55:31.:55:34.

board on Monday evening at number ten, men and women experts in their

:55:35.:55:39.

sectors coming together to deliver the 3 million apprenticeships by

:55:40.:55:42.

2020. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that it will be a great

:55:43.:55:46.

thing if, when students across our country log onto the website, they

:55:47.:55:51.

are informed about the opportunities of degrees as well as the more

:55:52.:55:59.

traditional agrees? That's Mac degrees. One reason is if you become

:56:00.:56:04.

an apprentice, that is not locking out a chance of doing a degree later

:56:05.:56:08.

in your career. The opportunities for learning and learning are

:56:09.:56:12.

getting great. The second reason it's so important, in schools,

:56:13.:56:16.

teachers are very well equipped to tell people about degree

:56:17.:56:18.

opportunities because that's the route that they've taken, A-levels

:56:19.:56:23.

and suchlike. But we need to improve the information in schools so people

:56:24.:56:27.

can see the opportunities for apprenticeships, in some cases, then

:56:28.:56:34.

leading onto degrees. My 24-year-old constituents Loria is in need of

:56:35.:56:42.

stem cell donor. The campaign is attracting global support and on

:56:43.:56:45.

Saturday, the O2 Centre in Manchester will run a drive to get

:56:46.:56:50.

as many people as possible on the bone marrow register. When the Prime

:56:51.:56:55.

Minister join me at this event on Saturday and send a message of

:56:56.:56:59.

support to those working to keep her alive? I certainly will join the

:57:00.:57:05.

honourable lady in supporting this campaign. It had meetings with the

:57:06.:57:10.

bone marrow organisations in number ten Downing St to support the

:57:11.:57:14.

matching campaign and I'm sure, by her raising it in this way, many

:57:15.:57:18.

others will want to come to this event and support it in the way she

:57:19.:57:24.

suggests. The Prime Minister is aware that a number of colleagues

:57:25.:57:28.

and I await his response to our request made in November for a

:57:29.:57:34.

meeting regarding his Ewood negotiations to discuss the

:57:35.:57:38.

importance of this Parliament being able to stop any unwanted taxes

:57:39.:57:42.

regulations or directives which goes to the core of the issue like the

:57:43.:57:46.

Borders control, business regulation. Will he meet with us

:57:47.:57:53.

prior to the next meeting? I'm having a range of meetings with

:57:54.:57:59.

colleagues about the European issue. I'm sure that I will be covering of

:58:00.:58:02.

many in our Parliamentary party as possible. I've always felt he has

:58:03.:58:06.

slightly made up his mind already and wants to leave the EU whatever

:58:07.:58:12.

the result. I don't want to take up any more of this time than is

:58:13.:58:13.

necessary. LAUGHTER

:58:14.:58:19.

Mr Jonathan Edwards. The UK Government is a cheerleader for

:58:20.:58:23.

China to be awarded market economy status because it wants the City of

:58:24.:58:28.

London to become a major trading centre for the Chinese currency. It

:58:29.:58:32.

would be nigh on impossible to impose tariffs on Chinese deals

:58:33.:58:37.

despite their strategy. If there's not a classic case of once again the

:58:38.:58:41.

Westminster Government putting the bankers of London before

:58:42.:58:44.

manufacturing workers in Wales and the rest of the UK? I think the

:58:45.:58:51.

honourable gentleman is wrong both on content and approach. The two

:58:52.:58:55.

issues are separate. There are market economies that Europe still

:58:56.:58:59.

puts dumping tariffs on, we did that recently with America and we've done

:59:00.:59:02.

in the past with Russia, so we should take these issues separately

:59:03.:59:07.

and continued to pursue robust action against China, exactly what

:59:08.:59:11.

we are doing, based on the merits but in terms of a close ablation

:59:12.:59:15.

ship, trading relationship with China, I want to help the Welsh

:59:16.:59:20.

businesses including companies like air bus to break into Chinese

:59:21.:59:23.

markets and make sure we get the best of British jobs, manufacturing,

:59:24.:59:28.

exports. That's what we want in our relationship with China. Speaking of

:59:29.:59:35.

Airbus, the Mersey region which straddles the England Wales border,

:59:36.:59:39.

is one of the most dynamic industrial areas of the country.

:59:40.:59:44.

Will my right honourable friend welcomed the establishment of the

:59:45.:59:48.

all-party Mersey group which has been formed to promote the economic

:59:49.:59:52.

success of the region and really urge his ministerial colleagues and

:59:53.:59:55.

the Welsh Government to cooperate with the group and its work? First

:59:56.:00:02.

of all, let me join my honourable friend in welcoming this new group.

:00:03.:00:06.

I think is important, when you look at the development of the Welsh

:00:07.:00:09.

economy, to think about how the North Wales can benefit from growth

:00:10.:00:13.

in the north-west of our country and the links between the North West and

:00:14.:00:17.

Wales, which this group will examine. HS2 and what happens crew

:00:18.:00:22.

will be of vital part of that process but I'm happy to talk

:00:23.:00:28.

further with him. Will the Prime Minister operate and speak for the

:00:29.:00:35.

whole of the House, the unconditional unequivocal support of

:00:36.:00:38.

the British people for the people of the Falklands Islands to their

:00:39.:00:51.

rights, their British right, to self-determination and that will not

:00:52.:00:55.

be undermined in any way by some kind of accommodation or

:00:56.:00:58.

negotiations in which the people of the Falkland Islands may have an

:00:59.:01:04.

enormous say and have no veto. They should have a right to determine

:01:05.:01:06.

their own future. CHEERING

:01:07.:01:10.

The honourable gentleman has put better than I could. The people of

:01:11.:01:15.

the Falkland Islands have spoken in-out referendum and will maintain

:01:16.:01:20.

the status quo and as long as they want that, they have a guarantee

:01:21.:01:25.

from me and I find it quite extraordinary that the Labour Party

:01:26.:01:29.

now want to look at trying to change the status and giveaway something

:01:30.:01:34.

people absolutely considered to be their right and that will never

:01:35.:01:37.

happen as long as I'm in Downing Street. Thank you. As a former Cub

:01:38.:01:49.

Scout leader, I'm pleased to say that Scouting is thriving in Harrow.

:01:50.:01:55.

This year marks the centenary of the formation and founding of Cub

:01:56.:01:59.

Scouting across the UK. Will my right honourable friend join me in

:02:00.:02:03.

congratulating the 150,000 young people who participate in Cub

:02:04.:02:10.

Scouting every week in the UK, congratulate and thank the leaders

:02:11.:02:13.

who give up their time voluntarily to enable young people to have

:02:14.:02:20.

adventures in a safe environment and call on more people to volunteer as

:02:21.:02:23.

leaders as part of the big society movement? I absolutely agree with my

:02:24.:02:30.

honourable friend, the Scouts are a great part of the big society and we

:02:31.:02:34.

provided them and other uniformed youth groups with over ?10 million

:02:35.:02:38.

of funding since I've been Prime Minister to help them do the

:02:39.:02:42.

excellent work they do. I had a letter recently from their grills,

:02:43.:02:46.

the chief scout himself, looking at what we can do the welcome has

:02:47.:02:52.

centenary and give this fantastic organisation a big centenary boost.

:02:53.:02:59.

-- Bear Grylls. The Prime Minister should be aware that Sheffield

:03:00.:03:04.

Masters announced this morning and last of 100 jobs in this crisis hit

:03:05.:03:10.

industry. Many of those jobs will be in my constituency. We have had lots

:03:11.:03:16.

of words, hand wringing and crocodile tears from the Prime

:03:17.:03:19.

Minister and the ministers in this chamber. About the job losses across

:03:20.:03:27.

the steel industry. Can you tell me when he's actually going to do

:03:28.:03:32.

something to support world-class companies like Sheffield 40 Masters?

:03:33.:03:39.

First of all, we have taken action including the action on energy bills

:03:40.:03:46.

which will save these industries ?400 million in this Parliament. The

:03:47.:03:49.

honourable gentleman chose to inject a bit of politics into this, let me

:03:50.:03:54.

inject some back. When the Labour Party were in power, what happened

:03:55.:03:58.

to employment in the steel industry? It was cut by 34,000, cut in half.

:03:59.:04:04.

Where were the carve outs from the energy bills them? Where were these

:04:05.:04:08.

special arrangements for taking votes in Europe we put in place?

:04:09.:04:12.

Where were the rules for making sure that we buy which steel here when it

:04:13.:04:19.

comes to public procurement as we will for HS2, the carrier programme

:04:20.:04:23.

and also if he is interested in Sheffield 40 Masters, he might want

:04:24.:04:27.

to have a word with his leader about something called a Trident

:04:28.:04:28.

submarine. CHEERING

:04:29.:04:39.

Mr Speaker. We don't yet know who will headline Glastonbury the summer

:04:40.:04:42.

but we do know that, as things stand, they will not have anywhere

:04:43.:04:46.

to do their banking as this world-famous town is to lose all

:04:47.:04:49.

three of its remaining banks within 12 weeks of each other. Will he join

:04:50.:04:54.

me in encouraging those banks to think again and otherwise to make

:04:55.:04:58.

sure that they need their responsibilities under the banking

:04:59.:05:02.

protocols? I will certainly make sure that happens and arrange a

:05:03.:05:08.

meeting with the Treasury minister to discuss this issue. We have huge

:05:09.:05:12.

challenges because of the growth of Internet banking but important in

:05:13.:05:17.

towns, market towns I represent, we have a physical presence on the high

:05:18.:05:24.

Street. The Prime Minister may be aware about Julie Pearson, young

:05:25.:05:28.

Scottish woman who died in November and was allegedly beaten and raped

:05:29.:05:32.

before her death. I've met the family recently and I hope the House

:05:33.:05:36.

will offer condolences. They are struggling to get authorities to get

:05:37.:05:43.

the autopsy report. Will he look at this case to put pressure on the

:05:44.:05:46.

Israeli Government and authorities and the family than can move on and

:05:47.:05:54.

get justice for Julie? I'm not aware directly of this case, but I will

:05:55.:05:58.

certainly take it up on her behalf with the Israeli authorities because

:05:59.:06:01.

important our constituents get answers on this matter. Perhaps I

:06:02.:06:05.

could have a meeting with Foreign Office minister so they can discuss

:06:06.:06:09.

it but we have good relations with Israel and use them to make sure

:06:10.:06:11.

when people need answers, they get them. Order.

:06:12.:06:19.

It is 12:36pm, Prime Minister's Questions over run as a usually does

:06:20.:06:28.

these days. It has come to an end. Jeremy Corbyn, as Laura accurately

:06:29.:06:32.

predicted, went first of all on student grants, the change of

:06:33.:06:35.

student grants into loans, we will talk about that in a minute, and

:06:36.:06:39.

moved onto bursaries for nurses, both issues are linked and used all

:06:40.:06:44.

six questions on these two issues. I will come back to that and get

:06:45.:06:47.

reaction from our panel when we have heard what you thought of it.

:06:48.:06:52.

Clear division, Andrew. Mark Bradley says yet again the Prime Minister

:06:53.:06:55.

didn't answer Jeremy Corbyn's questions but because of the lack of

:06:56.:06:58.

leadership and teeth from Jeremy Corbyn the prime Minster walked over

:06:59.:07:03.

the Labour leader. Richard Stanley said, finally a week where Jeremy

:07:04.:07:07.

Corbyn has scored some good blows against David Cameron. Bigging the

:07:08.:07:10.

Prime Minister into a hole on details around student fees and NHS

:07:11.:07:15.

nurses worked well, and let the Prime Minister struggling with

:07:16.:07:19.

prescriptive dancers. David Kidd said Jeremy Corbyn stumbles over his

:07:20.:07:23.

questions and is no match for David Cameron when it comes to debating on

:07:24.:07:29.

his feet -- scripted answers. Totally and ineffective. Katherine

:07:30.:07:36.

Jenkins says the prime and is the's declarations appear callous even

:07:37.:07:39.

when trying to appeal to normal people, while Jeremy Corbyn appears

:07:40.:07:42.

ever more confident appearing the strongest and fairest leader

:07:43.:07:46.

challenging the government and speaking up for the public.

:07:47.:07:50.

Thank you. Is to Corbynista still using his crowdfunding technique.

:07:51.:07:55.

Today was Lee and Vicky, he's not using it all the time, he's got rid

:07:56.:08:00.

of the idea of going through all of Prime Minister's Questions with

:08:01.:08:03.

questions source from the public but it is clearly a useful device and

:08:04.:08:09.

humanises the issues. It is useful he is using it. Today we saw these

:08:10.:08:15.

are good strong issues for Jeremy Corbyn and have cut through with

:08:16.:08:18.

lots of people around the country, changes happening to people's lives,

:08:19.:08:23.

no question. Is one of the e-mails suggested, the Prime Minister was

:08:24.:08:27.

not really put under very much pressure by Mr Corbyn and the manner

:08:28.:08:31.

in which he asked the questions. Again something we have discussed

:08:32.:08:36.

before, he's not really very much into the follow-up, the art of the

:08:37.:08:39.

follow-up. The AdLib follow-up. There was a

:08:40.:08:44.

good question, why wasn't this in the manifesto, the Government wants

:08:45.:08:47.

to make a change affecting thousands of students and it wasn't in the

:08:48.:08:51.

manifesto but he sort of let it go in a sense. One final thought,

:08:52.:08:55.

interestingly, we are seeing the Tories coalescing and sticking to

:08:56.:08:59.

and carving out this attack line we are going to hear again and again

:09:00.:09:03.

and again, different to how they approached Jeremy Corbyn before

:09:04.:09:05.

Christmas about the idea of going back to the past, Labour not just

:09:06.:09:10.

looking inside itself but looking back to the bad old days of the 70s

:09:11.:09:14.

and 80s, and you heard it with planted questions on nuclear weapons

:09:15.:09:18.

and secondary picketing, and Nigel Dodds from the DUP raising the issue

:09:19.:09:22.

of the Falklands. Indeed. David Gauke, the Prime

:09:23.:09:27.

Minister said in 2010 we must always look after poorer students. That's

:09:28.:09:32.

why we are keeping bursaries. What has changed? The position is that we

:09:33.:09:37.

think that in order to ensure we can properly fund record numbers of

:09:38.:09:43.

people going into higher education, that the best value for money

:09:44.:09:46.

approach of doing this is moving towards a loan system that we think

:09:47.:09:53.

this still ensures that people have got access to the funds they need

:09:54.:09:58.

whilst going through university, and in terms of the balance between the

:09:59.:10:03.

taxpayer and the student, or more to the point, someone who has had the

:10:04.:10:08.

benefit of higher education, we are clear that there needs to be that

:10:09.:10:11.

shift. When did you change your mind?

:10:12.:10:15.

Well, this is an issue we have always looked at.

:10:16.:10:20.

You have always been in favour of bursaries, and indeed you justified,

:10:21.:10:23.

by you I mean your party and ministers at the time, justified the

:10:24.:10:27.

trebling in tuition fees by an increase in student grants to help

:10:28.:10:34.

poorer students live through their time at university. So, what's

:10:35.:10:37.

changed and when did you change it? We were clear when we fought the

:10:38.:10:41.

last General Election that we needed to find further savings in public

:10:42.:10:43.

spending. You didn't mention this one.

:10:44.:10:50.

We are looking at the budget for the Department for business, innovation

:10:51.:10:53.

and skills, this is a substantial part of that budget.

:10:54.:10:56.

Why didn't you put it in the manifesto? Once we had won the

:10:57.:11:02.

General Election we looked at all of the areas of public spending to see

:11:03.:11:06.

where we felt there were as savings and here we felt there was a

:11:07.:11:09.

significant saving that could be made that enables us still to do

:11:10.:11:12.

something very important, which is take the cap on the number of

:11:13.:11:16.

students away. Let's get this right, we went into

:11:17.:11:20.

the selection with all previous statements from Conservative

:11:21.:11:24.

ministers extolling the virtues of bursaries and saying how important

:11:25.:11:30.

it was, even with rising fees, that bursaries help put students to go to

:11:31.:11:37.

university. In that election campaign you never mentioned that

:11:38.:11:42.

you were thinking of going from bursaries to loans, it wasn't in the

:11:43.:11:46.

manifesto, so how were we to know this is what you would do?

:11:47.:11:50.

We were very clear about the principles behind it. ...

:11:51.:11:56.

You were not very clear. We were very clear we would find

:11:57.:12:00.

savings in public expenditure. We gave those numbers and we talked

:12:01.:12:04.

about departmental spending, that we were going to find ?13 billion from

:12:05.:12:07.

that. You didn't tell us beforehand, did

:12:08.:12:10.

you? We didn't make that decision until

:12:11.:12:13.

subsequently. If it is such a good idea why

:12:14.:12:16.

haven't you put it through a committee? This is a big change for

:12:17.:12:20.

lots of poorer students. Why haven't you even had a debate in the House

:12:21.:12:23.

of Commons about it? It's perfectly reasonable to do this

:12:24.:12:29.

through a statutory instrument. It absolutely isn't. You have been

:12:30.:12:33.

doing it repeatedly with issue after issue. Tax credits. The power that

:12:34.:12:40.

we used to take this through on a statutory instrument was a power

:12:41.:12:45.

given to the Government in an act of Parliament passed by a Labour

:12:46.:12:49.

government in 1998. This is a complete red herring, we never used

:12:50.:12:54.

it as widely as you have done to bring through major changes.

:12:55.:13:00.

Can I just make the point, David Gauke, that it wasn't in the

:13:01.:13:03.

manifesto, you gave no inkling that this was a potential change, that if

:13:04.:13:11.

you were elected you would do. And yet you still wouldn't debate it in

:13:12.:13:15.

the House of Commons. It is surely worth more than a statutory

:13:16.:13:18.

instrument that you can show through in a committee.

:13:19.:13:22.

There was a vote in the House of Commons on this, as we can have an

:13:23.:13:28.

opposition Day debate. Only thanks to us. The idea that somehow this is

:13:29.:13:32.

concealed... I come back to the point. The very power that we were

:13:33.:13:38.

using, it was announced in the budget, there is no concealment

:13:39.:13:44.

here. The power to take this through by a statutory instrument is a power

:13:45.:13:47.

that a Labour act of Parliament gave us. Why does that make it right? I'm

:13:48.:13:53.

making the point that if Owen is going to criticise that it's

:13:54.:13:56.

outrageous that we used a statutory instrument for this Labour gave us

:13:57.:14:01.

the powerful stop we didn't use this for financial measures like this,

:14:02.:14:04.

that's the truth, we didn't use it for anything as substantial. We are

:14:05.:14:09.

talking about a bit of process now and I'd like to get back to the

:14:10.:14:13.

substance. This is a big policy change that will affect lots of

:14:14.:14:16.

people's lives when they go into higher education in the years to

:14:17.:14:19.

come and it's interesting and worth knowing that this plan was on the

:14:20.:14:22.

shelf and discussed and considered by Vince Cable and David Willis

:14:23.:14:26.

under the coalition and they shied away from doing it at that time. I

:14:27.:14:30.

understand Nick Clegg was nervous about going that far because of

:14:31.:14:34.

everything around tuition fees. In a sense it was something that was on

:14:35.:14:37.

the shelf that the Conservatives knew about, that when they got back

:14:38.:14:42.

in everybody was scaring about savings and they could take this

:14:43.:14:44.

back of the shelf and get savings pretty much that were easily

:14:45.:14:48.

deliverable monopoly Dibley easy, but easily deliverable. Even so just

:14:49.:14:54.

after the election there was a tussle in the business department

:14:55.:14:57.

about whether this was the right way to go but it did make its way into

:14:58.:15:03.

the budget. -- but not politically easy. I want to talk about the issue

:15:04.:15:11.

we have been discussing. I don't, because we've already done it and

:15:12.:15:14.

David Gauke has had a number of difficult questions. I don't think

:15:15.:15:17.

anyone can say we have not grilled him. It would be nice to comment on

:15:18.:15:23.

big Government's policies. You have been and I'm asking about Labour's

:15:24.:15:27.

policies. The policy was cutting tuition fees from 9000 down to 6000

:15:28.:15:32.

and the policy in Wales is we believe in lower tuition fees, we

:15:33.:15:36.

have a 3000 feet in Wales and we have maintained it under the Welsh

:15:37.:15:40.

government educational grants including the Educational

:15:41.:15:44.

Maintenance Allowance for 16-19 new role is. The crucial issue we have

:15:45.:15:48.

got to address is the fact that 500,000 students, the poorest ones

:15:49.:15:52.

who benefit presently from ?3500 grants each year, are going to be

:15:53.:16:00.

not ?40,000 in debt at the end of their university but ?53,000 and the

:16:01.:16:04.

Government is going to save money on the back of the poorest. Their own

:16:05.:16:08.

impact assessment concedes, Andrew, that it is going to diminish female

:16:09.:16:12.

participation in higher education, diminish what is a patient from

:16:13.:16:16.

black and ethnic minorities and diminish participation by the

:16:17.:16:19.

disabled, that is his Government's assessment.

:16:20.:16:22.

That is why David Gauke was asked some tough questions, can I get

:16:23.:16:25.

clarification from you now you have had your say, is it Labour policy to

:16:26.:16:30.

abolish tuition fees and if not what level would you set them at? Jeremy

:16:31.:16:33.

Corbyn has said it is his omission to abolish tuition fees and we are

:16:34.:16:40.

considering how to do that and when we put forward the manifesto for the

:16:41.:16:44.

next election that will be a consideration for stop didn't you

:16:45.:16:47.

tell me you were not abolishing tuition fees and you kept them in

:16:48.:16:52.

Wales? My previous answer was that at the last election Labour's posy

:16:53.:16:56.

was to cut from 9000 down to 6000 and the leader says he wants to open

:16:57.:17:00.

access to higher education and he believes that means Labour needs to

:17:01.:17:03.

look at tuition fees and abolish tuition fees, and we've got to

:17:04.:17:08.

consider seriously how we move towards making higher education

:17:09.:17:10.

accessible to more young people, in particular from the lowest income

:17:11.:17:20.

households. I'm afraid we are away over... We are going to stop. We

:17:21.:17:25.

have other things to do, that's it, stop! Start! The bell has rung. Very

:17:26.:17:40.

brave, Andrew! Go! Christine Ariza, the MP for Neath, after my appalling

:17:41.:17:50.

memory lapse earlier summer minister for legal aid, cease and desist.

:17:51.:17:52.

Thanks very much! Now - we used to boast an Empire

:17:53.:17:54.

on which the sun never set - now just a few "overseas

:17:55.:17:58.

territories" remain. But is it time to relinquish

:17:59.:17:59.

control of these? Journalist Richard Norton-Taylor

:18:00.:18:03.

thinks that the Union flag should be lowered on the Falkland

:18:04.:18:05.

Islands and Gibraltar - Approaching the planet for the first

:18:06.:18:07.

time, aliens may wonder what on earth the Union Jack

:18:08.:18:21.

is doing flying on an island 3,000 miles away from Britain,

:18:22.:18:25.

and also on a large limestone rock Successive British governments have

:18:26.:18:28.

claimed sovereignty over the Falkland Islands

:18:29.:18:46.

but the claims are far from solid. And shortly before the invasion

:18:47.:18:53.

of the Falklands by the Argentinians in 1982, the Thatcher government

:18:54.:18:55.

offered an arrangement whereby Argentina would get sovereignty over

:18:56.:18:58.

the islands and Britain would lease And the islanders would be promised

:18:59.:19:00.

uninterrupted enjoyment And then, even after the invasion

:19:01.:19:04.

in 1982, the Thatcher government was prepared to do a deal,

:19:05.:19:11.

negotiate over the islands. In strict treaty terms,

:19:12.:19:24.

Britain's claims to Gibraltar, the Rock of Gibraltar,

:19:25.:19:30.

are stronger because the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht ceded the rock

:19:31.:19:34.

to Britain in perpetuity, Even so, despite this,

:19:35.:19:37.

the British governments in the past have been prepared to discuss

:19:38.:19:44.

sovereignty arrangements, joint sovereignty,

:19:45.:19:47.

for example, with Spain. It cannot be beyond the wit

:19:48.:19:48.

and imagination of democratic governments to abandon

:19:49.:20:01.

an anachronistic notion of false The Rock of Gibraltar

:20:02.:20:07.

and the Falkland Islands have no It is time, indeed it is well

:20:08.:20:12.

beyond time, to negotiate in the name of territorial

:20:13.:20:17.

integrity and common sense. And Richard Norton

:20:18.:20:27.

Taylor joins us now. Welcome. You agree with Jeremy

:20:28.:20:39.

Corbyn in terms of discussions on both of those? He said something for

:20:40.:20:42.

the first time last Sunday I've been talking about this quite a long

:20:43.:20:48.

time. Do you agree with him the Falkland Islands have a right to

:20:49.:20:52.

self-determination? Yes. On the basis of that, the one to stay as

:20:53.:21:00.

is. Self-determination is not same as giving up the British colonial

:21:01.:21:07.

status. It happened in many other countries. Minorities who have

:21:08.:21:13.

self-government, certainly, and it guarantees they can preserve their

:21:14.:21:19.

way of life which has been suggested in the Gibraltar context too,

:21:20.:21:22.

actually. Part of any agreement, one should have, talks first with

:21:23.:21:31.

Argentina and the Spanish government over Gibraltar, is to have some

:21:32.:21:35.

agreement whereby the Argentina 's would have to look after their own

:21:36.:21:40.

indigenous population not on the mainland, not just the islanders.

:21:41.:21:46.

That can be part of a deal in the interests of the minorities in

:21:47.:21:51.

Argentina and indeed Spain, as well as in Gibraltar and the folder. Is

:21:52.:21:58.

it time we negotiated with Argentina the Falklands? No, it's very clear

:21:59.:22:06.

that there is an established printable self-determination. I

:22:07.:22:11.

think this is a peripheral issues and... Jeremy Corbyn talked about

:22:12.:22:17.

it. He was asked a question about it and did not raise it. Universal

:22:18.:22:22.

Credit, cuts to bursaries, all of those are much more important

:22:23.:22:27.

subjects for the country. I think, our opinion as Labour about the

:22:28.:22:30.

Falklands, it is self-determination, it's for the people of the Falklands

:22:31.:22:35.

to stay part of Britain and if they want to, they should do. They should

:22:36.:22:41.

be reasonable accommodation with Argentina, Jeremy Corbyn said. Is he

:22:42.:22:47.

right? I think our position is clear. It should remain part of

:22:48.:22:53.

Britain. What does he mean by reasonable accommodation? He was

:22:54.:22:56.

simply saying at the Falklands is raised once more by the Argentinian

:22:57.:22:59.

government, we should reasonably engage in discussions with them and

:23:00.:23:03.

of course that's right, however, our principal position has to be it for

:23:04.:23:07.

the people of the Falklands to determine whether they want to be

:23:08.:23:12.

part of or Argentina or independent. Their view is clear they want a part

:23:13.:23:16.

of the UK and therefore they should remain part of the UK. He was asked

:23:17.:23:24.

about it counted as a veto and he wasn't clear about that. In fact,

:23:25.:23:28.

today Nigel Dodds wanted clarification. I think they should

:23:29.:23:34.

have a veto. It's for them to determine whether they want to

:23:35.:23:37.

remain part of the UK but I genuinely do think, and I know why

:23:38.:23:42.

the Tories want to talk about this, going back to the past, the 1970s

:23:43.:23:50.

etc, but it is peripheral. Jeremy answered the question honestly,

:23:51.:23:54.

however, it's not the main topic of conversation. It's a peripheral

:23:55.:24:00.

issue? It's not as urgent as other issues like the economy or Trident

:24:01.:24:04.

or whatever but it's an important issue and there will be negotiations

:24:05.:24:09.

on time. Maybe when I'm past retirement, even more past

:24:10.:24:14.

retirement age, but it's going to happen sooner. Should David Cameron

:24:15.:24:20.

we willing to negotiate? No, I agree with what Owen has said in terms of

:24:21.:24:23.

respecting the self-determination of the islanders, but where it is

:24:24.:24:28.

important is it does reveal something about Jeremy Corbyn. Owen

:24:29.:24:34.

Smith is normally done that for you. The big dispute between the UK and

:24:35.:24:37.

any other part of the world, Jeremy Corbyn seems to be on the side of

:24:38.:24:41.

the other part of the world. He was asked the question did not bring it

:24:42.:24:43.

up, though. Thank very much. So yesterday they

:24:44.:24:47.

made their excuses. The Labour Party tried to explain

:24:48.:24:48.

why it lost the General Election and Pollsters tried to explain why

:24:49.:24:51.

they were predicting might Ed Miliband might

:24:52.:24:53.

become Prime Minister. But how do those compare

:24:54.:24:55.

with the great political excuses At five, it's Natalie Bennett

:24:56.:24:57.

with her mental brain fade. Er, we're looking at a total

:24:58.:25:09.

spend of 2.7 billion... Having a brain fade is arguably

:25:10.:25:20.

the most honest excuse of today's top five and she did

:25:21.:25:27.

have a massive cold. In at number four, it's the UKIP

:25:28.:25:29.

front man Nigel Farage with a novel excuse for being late

:25:30.:25:35.

to a meeting in Wales. More creative than to blame

:25:36.:25:38.

the traffic, he had an excuse It took me six hours and 15

:25:39.:25:40.

minutes to get here. What it does have to do

:25:41.:25:45.

with is a country with a population going through the roof chiefly

:25:46.:25:48.

because of open door immigration and the fact the A4 is not

:25:49.:25:52.

as navigatable as it used to be. Down to three, it's Gordon Brown

:25:53.:25:57.

with that 2010 classic. JEREMY VINE: Someone

:25:58.:26:01.

has handed me the tape. Let's play it and see

:26:02.:26:03.

if we can hear it. GORDON BROWN: 'She's

:26:04.:26:05.

just a bigoted woman'. He said sorry and had

:26:06.:26:08.

an excuse up his sleeve. This was me being helpful

:26:09.:26:10.

to the broadcasters with my microphone on, rushing into the car,

:26:11.:26:15.

because I had to get At two, it's Aston Villa's number

:26:16.:26:18.

one fan David Cameron. He said, well, he forgot which team

:26:19.:26:25.

he supports which may well be true because a few months later he also

:26:26.:26:33.

forgot his daughter after Sunday He remembered to take

:26:34.:26:36.

the President Xi, though. And at number one, the then

:26:37.:26:43.

Environment Secretary Owen Paterson with the irrefutable excuse

:26:44.:26:46.

as to why the badger cull targets The badgers have

:26:47.:26:49.

moved the goalposts. Those pesky little badgers always

:26:50.:27:13.

interfering with the goalposts. What's the most embarrassing excuse

:27:14.:27:16.

you've had to make? I've never had to make an embarrassing excuse. You

:27:17.:27:24.

haven't? I once left an event because I wanted to go and watch

:27:25.:27:28.

England play football and I said I had to look at Stirling matters

:27:29.:27:32.

because Raheem Sterling was a star player at the time. Can you do

:27:33.:27:38.

better than that, please? Similar to David Cameron, my mother once left

:27:39.:27:45.

knee in a pram outside the butchers and got on the bus and went home

:27:46.:27:49.

before she realised. How could you do that, say that about your own

:27:50.:27:57.

mother? What is your excuse for Labour spending ?600 on chicken

:27:58.:28:00.

suits during the election campaign? Money well spent. We should have

:28:01.:28:07.

spent more. What was the year? Guess which year it was. It was... 1979.

:28:08.:28:18.

The winner is Nick from Hertfordshire. Well done. On the

:28:19.:28:27.

Falklands, Michael Foot was very robust. Yes, he was. In that famous

:28:28.:28:33.

speech, he did better than Margaret Thatcher. On a Saturday morning. No

:28:34.:28:40.

time to talk about Gibraltar properly. Sorry about that.

:28:41.:28:43.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

:28:44.:28:46.

We'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories

:28:47.:28:49.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn present live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions. They are joined by financial secretary to the treasury David Gauke and shadow work and pensions secretary, Labour's Owen Smith.

Also includes the latest news and debate from Westminster.

The Guess the Year competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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