29/01/2016 Daily Politics


29/01/2016

Journalist and broadcaster Julia Hartley-Brewer and Kevin Maguire from the Mirror join Andrew Neil. They look at David Cameron's renegotiation efforts in Brussels.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics.

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David Cameron is said to be closing in on a deal

:00:39.:00:41.

But will it wash with his MPs and the country at large?

:00:42.:00:48.

The Prime Minister is in Brussels to meet Commission President

:00:49.:00:51.

Jean-Claude Juncker amid reports that the UK may get an emergency

:00:52.:00:54.

brake on in-work benefits for EU workers.

:00:55.:01:00.

But one Eurosceptic Conservative MP says the idea is a sick joke.

:01:01.:01:04.

Is the Government too cosy to multinationals like Google?

:01:05.:01:09.

That's the accusation after a row about Google's ?130

:01:10.:01:11.

We speak to one lobbyist who welcomes greater transparency

:01:12.:01:17.

Donald Trump isn't exactly a shrinking violet but he stayed

:01:18.:01:23.

away from a Fox News debate last night.

:01:24.:01:33.

The last before Iowa votes in its Monday caucuses.

:01:34.:01:37.

But even when he's not in the room, is he still making the running?

:01:38.:01:40.

Journalist Matt Frei joins us to look at the Republican race.

:01:41.:01:43.

And what does it take to be Foreign Secretary?

:01:44.:01:45.

We have the latest in our series of films on the Great Offices of State.

:01:46.:01:48.

I think in my first year in office, I was able to recall one day,

:01:49.:01:52.

Christmas Eve, as it happens, when nothing happened.

:01:53.:02:07.

Santa happens on Christmas Eve, of course!

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All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole

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of the programme today two giants of political commentary.

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Or, at least, that's what we were aiming for but,

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in the end, we had to settle for these two -

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Julia Hartley-Brewer and Kevin Maguire.

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Now, as we speak, David Cameron is arriving in Brussels

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for a meeting with EU Commission President Jean-Claude

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It comes amid reports that Britain is apparently closing in on a deal

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that would allow it to deny in-work benefits to people from other parts

:02:33.:02:35.

But the idea of a so-called emergency brake has met

:02:36.:02:39.

with scepticism from - yep, you guessed it -

:02:40.:02:43.

So what is on Mr Cameron's shopping list? He said he wants four things

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for his shopping basket. First economic governance, the PM wants

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safeguards to ensure countries like the UK but do not use the euro are

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not disadvantaged, including not having to contribute to any future

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Eurozone bailouts. Secondly, competitiveness. He wants to end...

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Extend the single market, cut red tape and ease the burden of

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excessive regulation. Third, sovereignty, greater powers for

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national parliaments to block EU legislation and an opt out from the

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founding ambition in the Treaty of Rome to forge ever closer union.

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Fourth is the closest... Most specifically controversial, and

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esters want to restrict in work and some out of work and fits that can

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be claimed by EU migrants when they come here. Other EU countries say it

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is discriminatory. But reports today say that Britain could be offered

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emergency brake room, which could include curbing immigration by

:03:59.:04:02.

denying benefits for four years. Former Tory Cabinet Minister John

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Redwood has already called the suggestion, quote, a sick joke and

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an insult to the UK. It is a reminder to the Prime Minister that

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even if he can get a deal agreed in time for the EU Council meeting in

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the middle of February, he still needs enough to satisfy Tory

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Eurosceptics who will be waiting for him at the checkout. Let's get more

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on this story with our Europe correspondence Gavin Lee.

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on this story with our Europe when this idea of an emergency brake

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was first used, the idea was an emergency brake to stop migration

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into Britain, now it is being talked of as an emergency brake on welfare

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benefits, is that right? Yeah. It is a counter proposal. David Cameron

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has just come to know to face -- has just come to his Brussels lunch with

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Jean-Claude Junker. This fourth area that David Cameron is demanding

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change in Europe, the idea of curbing migrant benefits for up to

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four years, in work benefits, this is what it is in regard to. There

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has been deadlocked for weeks, neither side saying they would give

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ground, other member states saying it is a central pillar of the EU,

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freedom to live and work in any member state. The collision is

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putting this forward, we understand from a senior source. -- the

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commission is. It would mean that other member states get to look at

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the British position, Britain can apply for this four-year cap, they

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have to show that the welfare state simply cannot cope, and by a

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majority vote, other member states can agree. But suddenly not only the

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British upper special opt out, other member states can share the same

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emergency brake if they needed. It will not require a treaty change,

:05:56.:06:00.

that is another thing about how long it would take. It will be a lot more

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legislation, and the source who explains how it would work to the

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BBC says it is probably talking about more than a treaty would take

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but it is a better way of doing it. That appears to be on paper. David

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Cameron has arrived to start the very first of many talks with EU

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commission and Parliament leaders. Just to clarify, before any British

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governments can apply this emergency brake on welfare payments, they

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would need a majority of European union members, their permission,

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before this can be applied, not to the number of migrants coming in but

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to the kind of welfare they get once they are in? Yeah. As it stands at

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the moment it is not in the hands of Westminster, it is in the hands of

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Westminster to apply, which could happen before the referendum. David

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Cameron might have something in place in the boat was to stay in

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Europe. It has to be a majority approval by other member states. At

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the moment, it is a one-time only. If activated, it expires after four

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years. There is room for negotiation. The commission are

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proposing this as a counter proposal, we are told, the other

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member states are not informed formally about this. The Polish

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Foreign Minister has said in the last half hour that Poland thinks it

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is not acceptable. On BBC radio this morning David Cameron said that what

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seemed impossible now seems to be possible, but other member states

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say that some would find it hard to compromise.

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Thank you very much, let's see what happens over lunch, see of

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Jean-Claude Junker has his usual brandy. Orders he have that the

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breakfast?! -- or does he have that for breakfast?!

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Joining me now is the Eurosceptic Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan,

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and John Springford from the Centre for European Reform.

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John, isn't the idea that a British government would need the position

:07:59.:08:05.

of a majority of EU members to do anything on welfare payments for

:08:06.:08:13.

migrants so ludicrous that it has to B -- has to be an aunt Sally, that

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the government can say it has much more than that? The point of having

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a single market labour is that workers can move around the single

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market and not be discriminated against by their host state it makes

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sense if you think about it that way that the European Union would decide

:08:32.:08:36.

whether a welfare system was being overwhelmed or not. If we felt the

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welfare system was being overwhelmed, what would stop us

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under current European rules from going to ask a majority to change

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the rules? There is no clear mechanism and AE you rules for them

:08:51.:08:55.

to be able to stop migrants from coming -- under EU rules. But if we

:08:56.:09:00.

went to the rest of the EU and got a majority vote allowing this to

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change some of the welfare rules for migrant, I don't understand why we

:09:05.:09:10.

couldn't do that at the moment? There are rules in the Treaty, which

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underlies all the legislation which the EU creates, which makes that

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type of unilateral action... It would not be unilateral if we got a

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majority. The European Court of Justice defends the treaties. So

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even if it was a majority agreement, it would breach the treaties? So

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what is being proposed? We were talking about an emergency brake on

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migration, the Eurocrats said no. Then a complete ban on benefits,

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Eurocrats said no. Then we said, what about an emergency brake on

:09:49.:09:52.

benefits? Even the PM last year said it was unacceptable. If this is how

:09:53.:09:58.

we are being treated now, if the Eurocrats are those unable to make a

:09:59.:10:01.

significant concession won their second largest economy is about to

:10:02.:10:05.

hold a referendum on leaving, imagine how they would treat as the

:10:06.:10:12.

day after we had voted to stay? -- treat us. I think that cuts in

:10:13.:10:18.

another direction. If we vote to leave, and we have just try to

:10:19.:10:22.

renegotiate our position, and Daniel is right, we have not necessarily

:10:23.:10:27.

transformed our agreement with the EU, they are unlikely to give as

:10:28.:10:31.

major concessions in the negotiations over Brexit and market

:10:32.:10:35.

access. Over Brexit, we would make about world rules? Not necessarily,

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Norway or Switzerland had to abide by free movement rules to have

:10:44.:10:50.

market access in other areas. I am sure we would have sensible

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bilateral and multinational deals. Nobody is talking about withdrawing

:10:55.:10:59.

co-operation or involvement in the European continent. Post Brexit, the

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UK would remain interested and involved in every continent,

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including Europe. But I suspect the PM regrets ever going down this road

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of renegotiation. I think he would have been better holding a snap

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in-out referendum, because he is raising and dashing expectations. I

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think a lot of people would say, my goodness, there is the leader of the

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fifth-largest economy of the world touring foreign capitals, egging for

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the right to tweak welfare changes and still being denied. -- begging

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for the right. That is not the leader of an independent country. If

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that is how we are being treated now, imagine if we had run up the

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right flight, imagine what would come down the line? We know the

:11:44.:11:48.

Eurocrats are proposing a social union, harmonisation of welfare and

:11:49.:11:52.

social entitlements, we know we would be dragged into more bailouts,

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there is a greater risk in voting to stay than in taking back control. If

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you look at what is happening in Europe, the huge challenges Europe

:12:02.:12:07.

faces, Schengen, that is now struggling to survive, border

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controls even on the bridge between Copenhagen and Malmo, you can't get

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more symbolic than that. Nothing the Prime Minister is proposing would

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make a blind bit of difference to any of that Allbritton 's

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relationship with it? There is some sense to just say happen in-out

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referendum? I agree. It seems to me to make the referendum about whether

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being in the EU is good for Britain's labour market, Britain 's

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goods and services market, or whether leaving is better. Who said

:12:44.:12:50.

that an emergency brake was, quote, some arcane mechanism which would

:12:51.:12:54.

probably be triggered by the European Commission and not by us?

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David Cameron! Correct! At the grand old Duke of Downing Street has

:13:03.:13:05.

marched himself to the top of the hill, Martians held down, he is not

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even halfway up. He has made a complete and utter hash of this. He

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would have laughed this out of court not so long ago. That he is

:13:15.:13:18.

desperate now, whatever he gets in the next few weeks, he will hail it

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as the greatest deal ever. And they know that in Brussels, that is the

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point. If you Angela Merkel or Jean-Claude Junker, why would you

:13:30.:13:33.

make concessions now? As Dell bowed to leave, that is the real

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bargaining. I am a Eurosceptic and would vote to go out purely on a

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democratic basis, but it's David Cameron genuinely wanted reform, he

:13:44.:13:46.

should have said he would campaign for out, and only if I get the

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reforms... It is clear from the word go, there was never any scenario in

:13:53.:14:00.

which he would campaign to go out. ANDREW: this referendum, like the

:14:01.:14:04.

referendum in 1975 when Harold Wilson came back with potentially

:14:05.:14:07.

even less than David Cameron will, potentially, I said, I was involved

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in that referendum and it was not fought on what Harold Wilson had

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brought back, this will not be fought on what David Cameron brings

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back. On this one will not get a 2-1 majority, either side. It will be

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closer. It will come down to whether you feel more prosperous and secure

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within, or whether you want to be without. If that is the case, isn't

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the danger for people who want to stay in, to remain part of the EU,

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that it will be potentially a horrific backdrop to this

:14:44.:14:49.

referendum, escalating out of control, a migration crisis, with

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governments doing their own thing, Hungary putting up fences, the

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bridge closing, Hollande and Merkel not able to agree policy, the quota

:14:59.:15:03.

refugee policy in chaos, meant to cover 160,000, so far 415 have been

:15:04.:15:13.

covered. That is the danger? The refugee and migrant crisis within

:15:14.:15:17.

Schengen, which Britain is not a part, is a accident crisis. The

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question that I hope that people put to the front of their minds when

:15:23.:15:27.

voting is, would us leaving make any impact on that? I would argue that

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it would not. This is a Schengen issue. The difference between 75 and

:15:32.:15:37.

now, 75, people were voting about what they wanted going forward and

:15:38.:15:40.

signing up to a free-trade agreement. This time around, it is

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hopefully whether we agree with the handed over I have a democratically

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elected representatives, powers handed over to a foreign body

:15:50.:15:54.

without our permission or authorisation. I think it is utterly

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absurd that our Prime Minister is going around with a begging bowl

:15:58.:16:00.

asking if we can control our own borders.

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Never mind the immigration issue, there's problems with the euro, we

:16:08.:16:12.

could be dragged into that. We need to grab the steering wheel back

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before we hit the car crash. They gave us guarantees in written form

:16:21.:16:27.

in the clearest language lawyers could advise that we would not be

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required to bail out the row. We were dragged in in June. That's why

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there's a greater risk involved staying. There's a whole new world

:16:37.:16:41.

out there, every continent is growing apart from Antarctica.

:16:42.:16:45.

Viewers will be relishing the fact they have months of this left! I can

:16:46.:16:52.

hear the sets clicking. Before we go, what's your best bet on when the

:16:53.:16:56.

referendum will be? June, the opinion polls are moving towards

:16:57.:17:01.

exit, and every day that passes, it's not just a worsening migration

:17:02.:17:05.

crisis, there is another risk of spreading of the Eurozone crisis to

:17:06.:17:08.

France and it would make Greece look like a sideshow. I think it will be

:17:09.:17:13.

June as well. If we can get the deal in time. And it would be a lovely

:17:14.:17:17.

time of year to celebrate Independence Day in the future! What

:17:18.:17:23.

data put in my diary. It's the summer season. Every season is

:17:24.:17:32.

summer season for you. Ask .com Wimbledon, Test matches, the

:17:33.:17:33.

referendum. Parliament is falling apart -

:17:34.:17:34.

I'm sure you knew this already- but it is, in fact, in need

:17:35.:17:39.

of extensive refurbishment, so MPs are looking around

:17:40.:17:42.

for somewhere to go whilst the work Richmond House, the current home

:17:43.:17:44.

of the Department of Health, has been identified

:17:45.:17:49.

as a possible location. It sits right in the centre of

:17:50.:17:53.

Whitehall opposite Downing Street. However, according to press

:17:54.:17:58.

reports there's a catch. And existential capture some of the

:17:59.:18:05.

MPs. So our question today is,

:18:06.:18:08.

what won't MPs be allowed At the end of the show Julia

:18:09.:18:11.

and Kevin will give us the correct I think they might know what it is,

:18:12.:18:22.

they have a vested interest. David Cameron and George Osborne

:18:23.:18:31.

have been accused of being too close to Google amid growing anger

:18:32.:18:33.

at the company's Former Business Secretary Vince

:18:34.:18:37.

Cable said earlier this week that Google had a "great deal

:18:38.:18:42.

of influence" in No 10 Even Rupert Murdoch got

:18:43.:18:44.

in on the act, accusing the - and I quote - "posh boys

:18:45.:18:48.

in Downing Street" of being Nobody in Downing Street, of course,

:18:49.:18:50.

has ever been in awe of posh Steve Hilton, who used to be

:18:51.:18:54.

David Cameron's strategy chief, says there needs to be much greater

:18:55.:18:58.

scrutiny Do I appreciate the anger, yes, I

:18:59.:19:10.

very much do. I think there is a growing sense that companies who are

:19:11.:19:20.

so big and dominant, not just in the marketplace, but in the way they

:19:21.:19:26.

relate to government and so on, that they are above the law. I think in

:19:27.:19:31.

this particular case, I think they have made clear that they were

:19:32.:19:35.

abiding by the law then when the arrangement caused anger, and now

:19:36.:19:38.

they have the new arrangement. The truth is that those of us who really

:19:39.:19:43.

believe in the power of business and capitalism to do good things for

:19:44.:19:48.

society, and I am definitely one of those people, we have to make clear

:19:49.:19:52.

to businesses that they have a responsibility to behave in a way

:19:53.:19:53.

that earns public trust. Joining me now is Iain Anderson -

:19:54.:19:55.

chairman of Cicero Group, He also chairs the Association of

:19:56.:19:58.

Professional Political Consultants, Nothing new in the idea that big

:19:59.:20:10.

companies get to lobby governments, and governments can often be too

:20:11.:20:16.

close to big companies, so too for oppositions. But what will we do

:20:17.:20:21.

about it? The government 's lobbying register is not the answer to where

:20:22.:20:25.

we are now. It's a completely failed concept. In our view, it covers

:20:26.:20:30.

about 1% of the actual lobbying that is taking place. Google don't like,

:20:31.:20:38.

like me, don't actually have to be on the register, so the government

:20:39.:20:42.

plans hatched up under the coalition don't solve any of this. What we

:20:43.:20:47.

want to see is full disclosure of ministerial diaries. That gets rid

:20:48.:20:54.

of any perceived problem. You could see big companies, small companies,

:20:55.:20:58.

charities, trade unions, you can see the meetings. Surely we know

:20:59.:21:01.

something of the diaries, that's why we know there have been 21 meetings

:21:02.:21:04.

with Google, we just don't know what happened at them. We are calling for

:21:05.:21:12.

a better and more robust disclosure. Looking department by department,

:21:13.:21:16.

they are all at sixes and sevens as to who makes timely declarations

:21:17.:21:19.

over who's having these meetings. It's never really the meeting with

:21:20.:21:23.

the Minister that decides things, it's endless meetings, lunches,

:21:24.:21:27.

breakfasts and parties between special advisers and other people

:21:28.:21:33.

and big companies. That's where what you would call the Sherpa work is

:21:34.:21:38.

done. Again, the government's lobbying register completely fails

:21:39.:21:44.

because it doesn't require me or Google or any other company to

:21:45.:21:46.

declare when it meets a special adviser. You only have to declare

:21:47.:21:50.

when UA meet a minister or permanent secretary. I don think I met one

:21:51.:21:57.

permanent secretary last year. I would like to challenge what Steve

:21:58.:22:00.

Hilton said at the end of that package. No professional lobbyist I

:22:01.:22:07.

know lobby is about a company's tax bill. That's the job of the people

:22:08.:22:12.

not in this chair today, the accountants and tax advisers. I want

:22:13.:22:17.

to clear up the idea that lobbyists are trying to change the tax rules

:22:18.:22:21.

and bills themselves. It's not true. Don't you do that when you take HMRC

:22:22.:22:29.

to lunch? I don't do that. You get my point. I don't think HMRC are

:22:30.:22:34.

happy to be launched in that way. The current regime we have doesn't

:22:35.:22:39.

work. Frankly, we need not just new lobbying rules, but we need new

:22:40.:22:44.

corporate tax and personal tax rules because the system is far too copper

:22:45.:22:47.

gated. Lobbying is a mess in this country. It is, but they lobbied

:22:48.:22:53.

brilliantly on the register, so special advisers... I have read

:22:54.:23:02.

menus in bars that are more detailed than this lobbying register. And

:23:03.:23:09.

he's read a lot. You are never going to end it all together. I think

:23:10.:23:12.

there's nothing wrong with ministers and special advisers meeting people,

:23:13.:23:15.

but you want transparency and you want to know who they have met. It

:23:16.:23:20.

will not solve everything, of course, we have to keep moving to

:23:21.:23:23.

try to pin them down, but we could go further than we have already. I

:23:24.:23:27.

think the issue, there is nothing intrinsically wrong, immoral or

:23:28.:23:33.

dodgy about people lobbying, trade unionists and headteachers can

:23:34.:23:38.

lobby. They have more legislation around them though. The key thing

:23:39.:23:42.

is, the more you try to regulate this in this way, what will happen

:23:43.:23:47.

is exactly what has happened since freedom of information laws, it's

:23:48.:23:51.

like post-it notes. Ernest is don't have formal meetings in their office

:23:52.:23:54.

with a lobbyist, they will be directed to chat to them at a

:23:55.:23:57.

cocktail party and there will be no record. The key thing is taking

:23:58.:24:02.

money out of politics. If people lobbying can't offer funds towards

:24:03.:24:05.

political parties and campaigns because it's not allowed, you have a

:24:06.:24:10.

better chance of clearing things up. Politicians and ministers of all

:24:11.:24:15.

parties like to think they are with the zeitgeist. Cosying up to Google,

:24:16.:24:22.

a Brave New World, Apple, Amazon, and they don't spend much time with

:24:23.:24:27.

the widget company in West Birmingham. My hardest tasks are

:24:28.:24:34.

working for new entrants. We work for lots of new entrants, people try

:24:35.:24:39.

to get in to disrupt the market. At one point Google was a market

:24:40.:24:44.

disrupter, at one point Facebook was a market disrupter. But not now. In

:24:45.:24:52.

a way, this debate is a bit of a mirage from the bit that should be

:24:53.:24:56.

taking place, which is, are the corporate tax rules in this country

:24:57.:25:01.

fit for purpose? But they are less likely to go after these companies

:25:02.:25:04.

when they are for ever having a glass of perceptual, and a nibble

:25:05.:25:08.

around their offices. They are in and out of each other's restaurants

:25:09.:25:13.

will stop that's why you want transparency. You also want to push

:25:14.:25:18.

them away. We are all aware of the news of the settlement with Google.

:25:19.:25:24.

We know there have been 20 odd meetings between Google and

:25:25.:25:27.

ministers. People are making the connection, but it's still not shown

:25:28.:25:31.

that these meetings had anything to do with Google's tax returns. You

:25:32.:25:38.

are quite right on that. We have not seen the figures, and I understand

:25:39.:25:40.

personal privity and tax affairs even though I don't believe it

:25:41.:25:44.

should apply to big corporations will stop I would like to see the

:25:45.:25:48.

ballpark figures. But it creates an app sphere where you become very

:25:49.:25:54.

friendly. Ministers and opposition parties stop social mixing. HMRC

:25:55.:26:00.

inspectors like to go after big avoiders, as they see it. It's like

:26:01.:26:04.

red meat to them. They want to win the battle is. But they will not

:26:05.:26:09.

feel they have ministers on their side if they are always being the

:26:10.:26:12.

Pali Pali with companies like Google. One of the Prime Minister's

:26:13.:26:18.

formal advertisers was working for Google. -- advisers. It also happens

:26:19.:26:29.

at the Guardian as well! Wouldn't it lay a lot of suspicions? We don't

:26:30.:26:35.

need to see the massive detail of a big corporation's tax return, but if

:26:36.:26:41.

multinationals operating and making money in this country would be

:26:42.:26:45.

forced to publish the revenues they generated in this country, the

:26:46.:26:49.

profit generated in this country, as identified and agreed with HMRC, and

:26:50.:26:57.

then the tax they paid. Three lines would give us a fair idea if things

:26:58.:27:02.

were being fair or not. And that, and this is the ridiculous thing

:27:03.:27:06.

about George Osborne heralding this as a great deal, he announced it as

:27:07.:27:10.

a great deal, just as what we are talking about was agreed at

:27:11.:27:16.

international level by the OECD. Country by country reporting of tax

:27:17.:27:20.

deals. This Google tax, as we find out this morning, doesn't capture

:27:21.:27:24.

Google, there is something wrong with the tax system and that's the

:27:25.:27:25.

real story. A new national database to allow

:27:26.:27:29.

seriously ill patients to volunteer for innovative treatments looks

:27:30.:27:31.

set to get the go-ahead MPs are debating the Access

:27:32.:27:34.

to Medical Treatments Bill, which is the latest incarnation

:27:35.:27:38.

of legislation originally brought forward by the Conservative

:27:39.:27:42.

peer Lord Saatchi. It only applies to England and

:27:43.:27:53.

Wales, with Scottish health being a devolved subject.

:27:54.:27:55.

Lord Saatchi campaigned on the issue after his wife Josephine Hart died

:27:56.:27:58.

from ovarian cancer and was unable to volunteer to be treated

:27:59.:28:00.

Our reporter Ellie Price has been in the Commons monitoring

:28:01.:28:04.

This hill was first introduced in the last Parliament, first as a

:28:05.:28:13.

private members bill, and then by Lord Saatchi in the upper house. It

:28:14.:28:17.

rumbled on and was eventually blocked by the Liberal Democrats.

:28:18.:28:22.

Today is the Bill's reincarnation in this Parliament. Many of the

:28:23.:28:25.

controversial bits are likely to be watered down with amendments. That

:28:26.:28:29.

will take away some of the objections, politically and in the

:28:30.:28:37.

medical thinking in this. The life science Minister George Freeman

:28:38.:28:43.

joins me, alongside Heidi Alexander. Did you agree with Lord Saatchi's

:28:44.:28:48.

principals in the last Bill? We are today combining three different

:28:49.:28:54.

bills in one. Lord Saatchi's original intention was to try to

:28:55.:28:59.

promote innovative use of medicines by assuring doctors there was a

:29:00.:29:02.

pathway they could be assured would not trigger negligence. It had the

:29:03.:29:07.

opposite effect, it was a good intentioned but it concerned people

:29:08.:29:10.

we were changing the law make widgets, which we were not doing.

:29:11.:29:16.

Nick Thomas Simon's Bill promoting off label medicines, we wanted to

:29:17.:29:20.

see that but we didn't agree with the mechanism. I think we have been

:29:21.:29:25.

delighted to work with the opposition, the Lib Dems and SNP, a

:29:26.:29:29.

wonderful and rare moment of joined up politics, the house at its best,

:29:30.:29:33.

putting patients first, and I think the bill today will promote what

:29:34.:29:39.

people want to see, access for innovative medicines, new medicines

:29:40.:29:42.

and innovative uses for existing off label medicines. It has been watered

:29:43.:29:47.

down. The main thrust being met a database has been created. I

:29:48.:29:52.

wouldn't say watered down. We have taken out the negligence revisions

:29:53.:29:57.

that were concerning doctors and patients groups. That is a price far

:29:58.:30:02.

too high to pay. I was never going to approve those measures if they

:30:03.:30:06.

were not supported by the clinical community. What we are doing here,

:30:07.:30:10.

and what the bill does, is to say front-line doctors in a busy NHS

:30:11.:30:16.

should have information of drugs on trials and new drugs at the click of

:30:17.:30:21.

a mouse, so there patients get the access to the latest drugs

:30:22.:30:22.

available. What is the problem, you all agree

:30:23.:30:33.

on this? George is doing a very good job of spinning this. If the

:30:34.:30:37.

amendments are made, the bill is vastly different from the one

:30:38.:30:40.

originally proposed. The original bill would have change the law on

:30:41.:30:47.

clinical negligence. It is a bill that people in the Department of

:30:48.:30:50.

Health had worked on, we were clear it could not happen because it would

:30:51.:30:55.

have been a risk to patient safety and undermined participation in

:30:56.:30:58.

clinical trials, which is why charities like Cancer Research UK

:30:59.:31:03.

and the Wellcome trust were very, very clearly opposed. George, if you

:31:04.:31:10.

finish, if the amendments are made, this bill will amount to one

:31:11.:31:17.

substantive clause setting up a database which the Secretary of

:31:18.:31:20.

State for Health already has the power to do. Nobody is opposed to

:31:21.:31:24.

sharing information about innovative medical treatments. The Government

:31:25.:31:28.

got themselves into a Hull with this bill. I'm pleased it looks as if we

:31:29.:31:33.

might be making some changes to it which will hopefully share some of

:31:34.:31:39.

that best prep or so people can get treatments, access to treatments

:31:40.:31:46.

which work. A U-turn? We genuinely have cross-party agreement. I know

:31:47.:31:51.

Heidi has a job to do, she has to oppose, but we worked very hard, all

:31:52.:31:55.

of us. I was always clear that we would never support a bill that

:31:56.:32:00.

undermined patient and clinician confidence. This bill now, I

:32:01.:32:07.

believe, will move us forward. I'm afraid I think that George is

:32:08.:32:10.

reinventing history, to a certain extent, because this has been a bill

:32:11.:32:14.

which has moved forward at various stages with the support and

:32:15.:32:18.

involvement of Department of Health officials. I think if we can make

:32:19.:32:22.

the changes today that are being proposed, I don't think there is a

:32:23.:32:27.

problem with setting up a database, but I think the risks that were in

:32:28.:32:31.

the original bill, to patient safety and the risk that it would have

:32:32.:32:36.

undermined participation in clinical trials, that was something I could

:32:37.:32:39.

not live with, and it was right we are posted at second reading and I

:32:40.:32:43.

am hopeful that those amendments could be made. I will give you the

:32:44.:32:48.

final word in ten seconds. It is a great thing but we have a secured,

:32:49.:32:53.

cross-party agreement, and it is a shame, we have our clashes at the

:32:54.:32:58.

dispatch box, but this is the time to celebrate cross-party working for

:32:59.:33:02.

the good of patients. Heidi Alexander in George Freeman, thank

:33:03.:33:07.

you both. This is the bill's second reading, so if it gets the go-ahead

:33:08.:33:12.

today it is likely to pass, just not necessarily in the former Lord

:33:13.:33:13.

Saatchi might have wanted it to. Donald Trump loomed large over

:33:14.:33:16.

the final Republican debate ahead of the Iowa Causes on Monday

:33:17.:33:18.

despite not even being on stage. Mr Trump decided to boycott

:33:19.:33:25.

the Fox News debate after the channel refused

:33:26.:33:30.

to drop its host Megyn Kelly, whom Mr Trump had accused

:33:31.:33:32.

of bias towards him. We have the same problem with Shadow

:33:33.:33:45.

Ministers and Cabinet ministers here!

:33:46.:33:46.

Let's address the elephant not in the room tonight.

:33:47.:33:49.

Donald Trump has chosen not to attend this evening's

:33:50.:33:51.

I'm a maniac, and everyone on this stage is stupid,

:33:52.:33:54.

Now we've got the Donald Trump portion out of

:33:55.:34:02.

I kind of miss Donald Trump, he was a little teddy bear to me.

:34:03.:34:11.

We always had such a loving relationship during these debates,

:34:12.:34:14.

I kind of miss him, I wish he was here.

:34:15.:34:23.

That is the last debate before the people of Iowa go to vote on Monday.

:34:24.:34:28.

Well, Mr Trump held his own rally nearby in honour of war veterans.

:34:29.:34:32.

And I didn't want to be here, I have to be honest.

:34:33.:34:35.

I wanted to be about five minutes away.

:34:36.:34:37.

And I've enjoyed that, I've enjoyed that.

:34:38.:34:39.

All the online polls said I've done very well with this,

:34:40.:34:42.

But you have to stick up for your rights.

:34:43.:34:46.

When you are treated badly, you have to stick up

:34:47.:34:49.

Is it for me, personally, a good thing, a bad thing?

:34:50.:34:57.

But it's for our vets, and you're going to like it,

:34:58.:35:03.

because we raised over $5 million in one day.

:35:04.:35:05.

Joining me now is Matt Frei, formerly of this parish,

:35:06.:35:12.

He's just done a documentary about Donald Trump which aired

:35:13.:35:16.

Welcome to the programme. Is it not remarkable that Donald Trump has

:35:17.:35:31.

gone from the man that had no chance to the man that the Republican

:35:32.:35:35.

establishment is now needs to stop? It is extraordinary. He has taken

:35:36.:35:40.

the Republican rule book and, as you know, Andrew, Republicans like

:35:41.:35:45.

elections to be sort of organised, there is a corporate nurse, we will

:35:46.:35:49.

give John McCain a chance but ultimately George W Bush is our

:35:50.:35:53.

guide, this does not work any more. The first person to rip about rule

:35:54.:35:59.

book was Sarah Palin. When she appeared in 2008 and basically

:36:00.:36:03.

screamed out lots of white men in red tides, and the red tie is the

:36:04.:36:07.

Republican tie, their faces blanched because they thought, oh my God, we

:36:08.:36:13.

need this woman on our side but she will completely destroy our

:36:14.:36:15.

assumptions. That was forgotten for eight years, now she is back with a

:36:16.:36:20.

vengeance in the form of Donald Trump who basically, although he is

:36:21.:36:24.

a billionaire and only ever flies into these events with his private

:36:25.:36:28.

jet and flies out again to spend the night in his penthouse in Trump

:36:29.:36:32.

Towers on fifth Ave, occurs he says that people are afraid to say,

:36:33.:36:38.

because he embodies the American dream and because he is not a

:36:39.:36:42.

politician, he is able to convince people that one day they could be

:36:43.:36:46.

like him, or at least that he will kick sand into the face of the

:36:47.:36:52.

establishment. Here's a consequence like, I would suggest, Bernie

:36:53.:36:55.

Sanders on the Democrat side, probably the most left-wing

:36:56.:37:00.

candidate for the Democratic nomination since Mr McGovern in

:37:01.:37:06.

1972, of an anger on Main Street in America, of a feeling, particularly

:37:07.:37:11.

among working-class whites, what the Americans call middle-class whites,

:37:12.:37:15.

that they have not had a fair deal, that the world is passing them by,

:37:16.:37:19.

the country is changing in ways they don't like? You hear this anger over

:37:20.:37:25.

and over. You could argue, what is with the anger? Your country is

:37:26.:37:30.

growing faster than any developed economy, unemployment has gone down

:37:31.:37:35.

to 5.3%, you could have had a great depression but you only got a

:37:36.:37:39.

slightly rate recession which has now gone. Feel angry, because even

:37:40.:37:44.

though they have a job it is not paying great wages, they are almost

:37:45.:37:50.

underwater with their wages. -- mortgage. Lots of people, especially

:37:51.:37:55.

white, middle-class, lower middle-class, Americans, feel that

:37:56.:37:59.

history has gone on a different track and they are being left

:38:00.:38:03.

behind. Those are the people that Trump, despite his bombastic wealth,

:38:04.:38:09.

is able to plug into. Every time he opens his mouth and say something

:38:10.:38:14.

abrasive, something which crosses a political line that no other

:38:15.:38:17.

candidate in history would dare to cross, his poll ratings go up. The

:38:18.:38:22.

more we and others attack him, they go up further. I would suggest that

:38:23.:38:27.

the problem the Republicans face is that, popular as Mr Trump may be,

:38:28.:38:32.

with those in the caucuses and in the primaries, when you look at his

:38:33.:38:37.

poll ratings in the wider American electorate that he needs come

:38:38.:38:41.

November this year, his poll ratings are negative? They are. Americans

:38:42.:38:47.

are caught with an albatross around their neck called Donald J Trump. It

:38:48.:38:52.

is like a train crash, the train crashes, he becomes the nominee, we

:38:53.:38:56.

cannot stop the wave of anger which comes into its own in the primaries,

:38:57.:39:00.

he will be the nominee and then he will lose against Hillary Clinton.

:39:01.:39:04.

The Democrats have a similar an albatross called Hillary Clinton.

:39:05.:39:09.

She is perhaps a small albatross, but she is still an albatross. Some

:39:10.:39:14.

Democrats have said that no Democratic frontrunner has gone into

:39:15.:39:17.

the primary season with such negative ratings in modern times

:39:18.:39:23.

than Hillary Clinton. This is not just an American phenomenon, I would

:39:24.:39:26.

suggest. We have Marine Le Pen leading the polls in France, a hard

:39:27.:39:32.

right government in power in Poland, we have the Swedish Democrats, not

:39:33.:39:38.

the social Democrats, the Sweden Democrats, the third-largest party

:39:39.:39:42.

now in Sweden. And Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour Party in

:39:43.:39:45.

Britain. You could see that all as a revolt against the mainstream? And

:39:46.:39:51.

the rise of Nigel Farage a few years ago. Western economies are changing.

:39:52.:39:56.

There is a crisis in capitalism when wages are very low, yet a company

:39:57.:40:01.

like Google can get away with making vast profits and paying very little

:40:02.:40:06.

tax. I think people have good reason to be angry. They feel the system is

:40:07.:40:12.

not working for them? Because it is not, but certainly with Donald Trump

:40:13.:40:16.

I find it ironically that you have a billionaire who is not known for

:40:17.:40:20.

paying high wages or having good employment conditions in his hotels

:40:21.:40:24.

and the rest of his empire, he is presenting himself as the champion

:40:25.:40:27.

of mainstream... And the presenting himself as the champion

:40:28.:40:31.

of disbelief by American voters is extraordinary. That there

:40:32.:40:36.

of disbelief by American voters is middle-class whites in America. In

:40:37.:40:40.

of disbelief by American voters is this country we would be very

:40:41.:40:42.

of disbelief by American voters is suspicious of a multimillionaire,

:40:43.:40:47.

that he would be in June. In America, they take the view that he

:40:48.:40:51.

that he would be in June. In cannot be bought. We are more

:40:52.:40:51.

sensible! I think that point cannot be bought. We are more

:40:52.:40:56.

been made on behalf of such goldsmiths. There is no evidence at

:40:57.:41:01.

all that rich people can't be bought. -- on behalf of Zac

:41:02.:41:06.

Goldsmith. This suspension disbelief and the willingness to believe that

:41:07.:41:09.

anybody who says the right thing, shouts out, I hate Washington, they

:41:10.:41:14.

will therefore help the little people, for want of a better phrase.

:41:15.:41:19.

There is a well worn path in American

:41:20.:41:23.

There is a well worn path in character is who rises up and then

:41:24.:41:26.

flames, Randolph Charles Lindbergh. They have a lot

:41:27.:41:34.

of money, they captured people's imaginations and then they flame. I

:41:35.:41:37.

am not sure that'll work this around. Ultimately, this boat in the

:41:38.:41:43.

general election, assuming that Trump will get the nomination, comes

:41:44.:41:48.

down to one question, who is more likely to get voters off their

:41:49.:41:54.

couches to vote? The Democrats, the Latinos, the Hispanic population,

:41:55.:41:58.

which is enormous busted not tend to vote, but now they have every reason

:41:59.:42:01.

because they are afraid of getting deported, or poor white men watching

:42:02.:42:07.

daytime television because they don't have a job. But then there is

:42:08.:42:12.

the possibility that the former mayor of New York, Michael

:42:13.:42:15.

Bloomberg, might go in, another billionaire going in as the centre

:42:16.:42:21.

ground. He only works if it is Trump versus Sanders. Mark our card on

:42:22.:42:26.

Monday night, the Iowa caucuses don't really matter much, they are

:42:27.:42:31.

rarely an indicator, but it gives momentum going into New Hampshire.

:42:32.:42:35.

The big danger is Mr Trump conservative New Hampshire, down to

:42:36.:42:39.

the south, with momentum. You call it a danger, it is an opportunity! I

:42:40.:42:46.

mentor the establishment! The establishment seems to be putting

:42:47.:42:53.

its hope on Marco Rubio, but Trump is 18 points ahead of him. Your

:42:54.:42:57.

analysis is spot apart from one thing. Trump rises on the

:42:58.:43:03.

assumption, on the aura that he is invincible, that he can say whatever

:43:04.:43:08.

he likes and prevail. If he loses Iowa, even though the last two

:43:09.:43:12.

candidates who have won Iowa have disappeared almost immediately...

:43:13.:43:22.

Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee... Very interesting. Your documentary

:43:23.:43:26.

has gone out already but it is available on the all four player?

:43:27.:43:31.

Yes, the all four catch up they are, which I should know the exact... You

:43:32.:43:38.

can watch it on the computer! And very good it was. I will be in

:43:39.:43:43.

trouble now. I will be watching at this weekend. Good to see you.

:43:44.:43:46.

David Cameron is busy working hard in Brussels as we speak,

:43:47.:43:48.

but what about his foreign secretary?

:43:49.:43:50.

Well, what with the creation of the European Union

:43:51.:43:58.

and Prime Ministers wanting to hog the limelight,

:43:59.:43:59.

it's a job that's undergone some fundamental changes,

:44:00.:44:02.

as Giles Dilnot found out in the latest in his series on how

:44:03.:44:05.

But could you travel the world being the face of the British

:44:06.:44:26.

Government, and still be able to explain what you're doing

:44:27.:44:29.

So, you want to be Foreign Secretary?

:44:30.:44:36.

I think in my first year in office, I was able to recall one day,

:44:37.:44:40.

Christmas Eve as it happens, when nothing happened in the world.

:44:41.:44:45.

I was warned that there were people in the office,

:44:46.:44:47.

perhaps at fairly senior level, who didn't necessarily think that

:44:48.:44:50.

a woman ought to be Foreign Secretary.

:44:51.:44:54.

Which was a bit of a surprise in this day and age.

:44:55.:44:58.

I sometimes used to think, even when things are really

:44:59.:45:00.

difficult, sitting round the table, thinking, what's going to happen

:45:01.:45:02.

here, what do we do next, thinking, cripes, I'm being paid for this.

:45:03.:45:05.

Nobody much likes the Foreign Office, I've found.

:45:06.:45:12.

They are suspicious, they just want to get

:45:13.:45:14.

Jill Rutter is a former civil servant, and now

:45:15.:45:23.

For her, the role of Foreign Secretary is about sharing

:45:24.:45:28.

the brief with the one person more important than you.

:45:29.:45:32.

Foreign Secretary is still nominally one of the top jobs in government,

:45:33.:45:35.

but it's quite interesting because it's being

:45:36.:45:37.

First, most of the top diplomacy is done by the Prime Minister

:45:38.:45:41.

at head of state level, whether it's at the European Council

:45:42.:45:44.

or the G-7, or just through bilaterals.

:45:45.:45:47.

Secondly, the whole area of Europe is increasingly done by the domestic

:45:48.:45:57.

department, who go and negotiate directly.

:45:58.:45:59.

Successful Foreign Secretarys need to have a very good relationship

:46:00.:46:01.

with the Prime Minister, because people will listen to them

:46:02.:46:03.

if they know they are speaking of behalf of the Prime Minister,

:46:04.:46:06.

rather than running their own agenda.

:46:07.:46:08.

It's not just that everything is done at Prime Ministerial

:46:09.:46:10.

level, it's the fact that, and I hesitate to be too dogmatic

:46:11.:46:13.

about it, but I think it's because Prime Ministers rather

:46:14.:46:18.

like to take control of foreign affairs and defence and sometimes

:46:19.:46:23.

it's rather a relief to get away from the nitty-gritty of domestic

:46:24.:46:29.

politics and sweep yourself into the wider global conflicts.

:46:30.:46:37.

There is a great temptation for Prime Ministers to do that.

:46:38.:46:43.

Yes, I think you have to face it, that the Foreign Office is no longer

:46:44.:46:46.

I mean, frankly, for the last 18 years, we've had only two

:46:47.:46:52.

great offices of state - the Prime Minister and

:46:53.:46:54.

However, not everyone who's been Foreign Secretary has had the PM

:46:55.:46:59.

We have a Prime Minister now, and I have worked with him

:47:00.:47:06.

as Foreign Secretary, who has very strong views about one

:47:07.:47:09.

or two areas of foreign policy, but is quite happy to let

:47:10.:47:12.

the Foreign Secretary lead on a vast range of other things.

:47:13.:47:18.

David Cameron would have very strong views on handling

:47:19.:47:21.

But he would look to me to determine how we are going to handle

:47:22.:47:28.

everything in Latin America, or the approach to Africa and so on.

:47:29.:47:34.

The Foreign Secretary sets the strategy with comments from him.

:47:35.:47:37.

Actually, he was very good at not trying to be his own Foreign

:47:38.:47:40.

On Iran, when Joschka Fischer and Dominique de Villepin,

:47:41.:47:47.

the German and French foreign ministers,

:47:48.:47:50.

with Iran, which have just completed, after 12 years,

:47:51.:47:59.

it was very much our initiative, and Tony went along with it.

:48:00.:48:03.

He effectively left that dossier to me.

:48:04.:48:06.

He would have handled it differently, had

:48:07.:48:08.

If you haven't got a good relationship with the Prime Minister

:48:09.:48:13.

when you are Foreign Secretary, I'm not sure what happens.

:48:14.:48:16.

Well, I do know what happens, because that's what happened under

:48:17.:48:18.

Essentially, what happened is that Robin became marginalised,

:48:19.:48:27.

and the Foreign Office officials were more reporting

:48:28.:48:31.

across the street directly into Downing Street.

:48:32.:48:36.

One old hand, in the job when he was young, has seen

:48:37.:48:39.

First of all it was a very surprisingly appointment,

:48:40.:48:47.

and secondly, I was young, but Callaghan went out of his way

:48:48.:48:51.

to demonstrate to everybody that the Foreign Secretary

:48:52.:48:53.

To some extent, after Peter Carrington, there was a shift.

:48:54.:48:59.

Francis Pym didn't get on at all well with Margaret Thatcher,

:49:00.:49:03.

and she became, post-Falklands, very dominant.

:49:04.:49:08.

And never mind number ten, there's the department

:49:09.:49:10.

Your department is not just the people sitting

:49:11.:49:17.

Most of them are remote, around the world, and they are in 260

:49:18.:49:23.

In the case of the Foreign Secretary,

:49:24.:49:28.

Sometimes leaving Britain and coming back more than once in a day.

:49:29.:49:38.

I visited more countries than any Foreign Secretary in history before,

:49:39.:49:41.

partly because there are more countries now.

:49:42.:49:44.

One of the things our doctor had said to me when I got the job

:49:45.:49:48.

As it happened, a former colleague, a man called Derek Fatchett,

:49:49.:49:54.

who had been a junior minister in the Foreign Office and had died

:49:55.:49:57.

very young, of this thrombosis thing that one can get,

:49:58.:50:00.

and pretty certainly as a result of the scale and nature

:50:01.:50:03.

Our GP said to me, whatever you do, make sure you build in downtime

:50:04.:50:11.

So we took the view that if I was on a programme that started

:50:12.:50:18.

on Monday morning, I would rather lose part of my weekend,

:50:19.:50:20.

go out over the weekend, do the adjustment, and then be

:50:21.:50:24.

there for the meeting on Monday morning.

:50:25.:50:28.

The problem is the endless travel abroad is not always seen by one's

:50:29.:50:32.

The Foreign Office is often sneered at at home for not

:50:33.:50:37.

having its patriotic priorites quite right.

:50:38.:50:42.

I think the problem is when people look at what the Foreign Office

:50:43.:50:46.

was doing, and they took the view, particularly if they didn't know

:50:47.:50:50.

much about it, that the Foreign Office was actually just

:50:51.:50:55.

This, then, is the key accusation levelled at the Foreign Office,

:50:56.:51:01.

that it's more interested in giving into its foreign friends,

:51:02.:51:04.

than standing up for its British compatriots.

:51:05.:51:08.

Of course, what is often not realised, including by some

:51:09.:51:10.

politicians and ministers, is that if you want to avoid

:51:11.:51:15.

going to war and you want to resolve an international crisis

:51:16.:51:19.

through diplomacy, then diplomacy means compromise.

:51:20.:51:24.

There is no negotiation in the real world where one side gets 100%

:51:25.:51:29.

of what they want, and the other side gets zero.

:51:30.:51:32.

If you want total victory, then you don't use diplomats

:51:33.:51:36.

or ambassadors, you use soldiers, sailors and airmen, and you hope

:51:37.:51:39.

So because diplomacy requires compromise, that's why some people

:51:40.:51:46.

who ought to know better, sometimes accuse the Foreign Office

:51:47.:51:49.

of caving in, or surrendering British interests,

:51:50.:51:51.

It's marvellous rhetoric, and it's grossly unfair.

:51:52.:51:58.

In a complex, more integrated world, the Foreign Secretary,

:51:59.:52:04.

however much the PM might like to step into the role from time

:52:05.:52:07.

to time, is still a key figure, even if their colleagues can

:52:08.:52:10.

consider your department a different country that speaks a different

:52:11.:52:12.

What else has been going in Westminster over

:52:13.:52:25.

Here's Giles with the week in 60 seconds.

:52:26.:52:32.

The Government was frantically searching the Internet for tips

:52:33.:52:34.

on how to get out of a crisis after declaring victory over

:52:35.:52:38.

Google's decision to pay ?130 million in back taxes.

:52:39.:52:41.

Jeremy Corbyn attempted to fling a couple of googlies

:52:42.:52:43.

towards David Cameron at PMQs over Google's tax arrangements,

:52:44.:52:47.

but it was the Prime Minister's comments on migrants that

:52:48.:52:49.

They met with a bunch of migrants in Calais, they said

:52:50.:52:54.

It was a better week for Mrs Cameron, though,

:52:55.:52:58.

who was crowned star baker in the Sport Relief Bake Off,

:52:59.:53:01.

wowing the judges with her showstopper cake

:53:02.:53:02.

Lib Dem peer Shirley Williams, one of the gang of four,

:53:03.:53:09.

I have to say that at least I've had the advantage of not actually having

:53:10.:53:14.

to lose my capacities entirely before I departed

:53:15.:53:16.

And meet Ukip councillor Denis Crawford, a public servant

:53:17.:53:21.

so hard working his family reported him missing to the police.

:53:22.:53:23.

Fortunately, the local constabulary found Councillor Crawford safe

:53:24.:53:26.

and well in yet another council meeting.

:53:27.:53:40.

Let's pick up on one of those stories.

:53:41.:53:45.

The Ukip councillor in Norfolk who was working so hard his family

:53:46.:53:47.

I'm delighted to say that Denis Crawford has found time

:53:48.:53:51.

in his busy schedule and joins us now from Norwich.

:53:52.:53:57.

Welcome to the programme, what exactly happened? Why did they think

:53:58.:54:01.

you had gone missing? Thank you, Andrew. I had been busy in County

:54:02.:54:10.

Hall in Norwich, I sit on a lot of the big committees there, the adult

:54:11.:54:15.

social services and children's services, and I tend to leave at

:54:16.:54:20.

7am. I have my first pre-meeting at 9am, going until ten. The councils

:54:21.:54:30.

can take five or six hours to sit through a committee meeting. On that

:54:31.:54:34.

particular Monday, I did that, and then returned to Thetford to go

:54:35.:54:39.

straight to a resident's meeting, meaning I didn't get home until

:54:40.:54:44.

about 9pm. The Tuesday was even worse. On Tuesday I had another 7am

:54:45.:54:55.

leave, a big children's services meeting, came back to Thetford, we

:54:56.:55:03.

had the local District Council meeting. I went to that. And then I

:55:04.:55:09.

went straight on through to the town council meeting. That's where it set

:55:10.:55:16.

off. I understand the police started to look for you. In the end, they

:55:17.:55:23.

found you at a council meeting. Who was more embarrassed? You or the

:55:24.:55:30.

police? I think it was me. We were getting quite a way through the

:55:31.:55:35.

agenda, and there was a tap on the door, a head appeared around it, and

:55:36.:55:42.

the officer said, are we found Denis Crawford. I said, do you want to

:55:43.:55:49.

talk to me? He said yes, and I thought, I don't think I've done

:55:50.:55:53.

anything wrong. He said everything was fine. You wonder whether

:55:54.:55:56.

something has gone wrong with the family. I asked the chairman to step

:55:57.:56:00.

out into the hall, and they explained to me that my neighbour

:56:01.:56:04.

had reported me missing initially, because he hadn't seen me for three

:56:05.:56:08.

days. It's really good you get neighbours like that. Are you under

:56:09.:56:15.

some pressure now to resign and spend more time with your family?

:56:16.:56:21.

No, but I have made a promise to my family that I will inform them more

:56:22.:56:25.

about what I'm doing and where I'm at. We are grateful, we now know

:56:26.:56:30.

exactly how busy your schedule is, so we are grateful you have taken

:56:31.:56:34.

time to be on this show. Would you like to ask the counsellor a

:56:35.:56:39.

question? This happens to Kevin Maguire's family, but they just turn

:56:40.:56:42.

on the television to find out where he is! Thank you for your time and

:56:43.:56:48.

for the work you're doing behalf are people you are doing in your area. A

:56:49.:56:55.

story. It's great, but he's sitting on three councils. We complain about

:56:56.:57:02.

productivity in this country! I commend his public service, somebody

:57:03.:57:05.

from Ukip involved with the police, but nothing nefarious! Do what the

:57:06.:57:11.

Queen does with the Privy Council, shorter meetings, make everybody

:57:12.:57:15.

stand up and it's amazing how much less people have to say. It looks

:57:16.:57:19.

like Europe will just move up the agenda now. It's about time it does,

:57:20.:57:26.

it's a huge issue. It's inevitable there will be a seismic referendum,

:57:27.:57:31.

we think June the 23rd. It will be huge for Britain and it will

:57:32.:57:37.

dominate all politics. Just time before we go to find out the answer

:57:38.:57:38.

to the question. The question was, Richmond House,

:57:39.:57:41.

a potential temporary home for MPs, What won't MPs be

:57:42.:57:44.

allowed to do there? Is it - a) use mobile

:57:45.:57:46.

phones, b) play football, The correct answer is by alcohol,

:57:47.:58:00.

you can't even consume, you can't even bring your own. It's in the

:58:01.:58:07.

stipulations and it could be very healthy for MPs and journalists like

:58:08.:58:11.

me who work in Westminster. It is the Department of Health. And here's

:58:12.:58:19.

just guessing, it won't happen! You cynic! Thank you for being with us

:58:20.:58:25.

today. Have a good weekend. Thank you to all the guests are today. The

:58:26.:58:29.

one o'clock news is starting on BBC One. I will be back on Sunday on BBC

:58:30.:58:37.

One with the Sunday Politics. We will have a line-up of politicians

:58:38.:58:41.

to go through the issues and no doubt we will be talking about

:58:42.:58:45.

Europe again. In particular, we will have a debate on how good or bad is

:58:46.:58:50.

our membership of the EU for business in the United Kingdom.

:58:51.:58:55.

That's from 11am on BBC One this Sunday. Goodbye.

:58:56.:59:03.

As we'll be discussing, cosmologists are studying...

:59:04.:59:05.

The way the French feel about Joan of Arc.

:59:06.:59:07.

You sat on a windowsill and said... How old are you, Grandad?!

:59:08.:59:13.

Shall we call the police? Obviously not.

:59:14.:59:15.

I still carry that little caterpillar.

:59:16.:59:17.

But then nobody wanted to eat the sushi.

:59:18.:59:18.

It was like... The most amazingly evocative....

:59:19.:59:21.

Complete and utter failure. There were ukuleles as well.

:59:22.:59:25.

Journalist and broadcaster Julia Hartley-Brewer and Kevin Maguire from the Mirror join Andrew Neil. They look at David Cameron's renegotiation efforts in Brussels and, following calls that more needs to be done to regulate multi-nationals lobbying the government, they get the thoughts of lobbyist Iain Anderson. Channel 4's Matt Frei discusses Donald Trump's progress in the race to become the Republican presidential candidate, and in the latest in our series on the great offices of state Giles Dilnot looks at the role of foreign secretary.


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