10/02/2016 Daily Politics

Morning folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.

Junior doctors in England walkout in a second 24 hour strike over

changes to their contracts, providing only emergency care.

Is there any end in sight to the doctors' dispute?

Is there a level playing field in British politics?

The Government says it wants to cut the cost of politics and make it

fairer - but are they changing the rules for home advantage?

It's plentiful, it's cheap, it's tasty.

But can a vegan be persuaded of the virtues of

Why a simple question is so difficult for Eurosceptic

Let's wait and see, when this whole thing is agreed,

and try and see what it really means.

All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the duration today

Shadow Environment Secretary, Kerry McCarthy,

Last night Nick was engaged in a Twitter spat with pop singer

Lily Allen over Pythagoras's theorem, with Nick asserting

the importance of the theory in getting on in life.

So you'll know that the Pythagorean equation is, Nick?

These square of the high path use is equal to the square on the other

side. Should I have taken the Nicky Morgan offence? -- defence. No, that

is pretty good. Now - junior doctors in England have

begun a second 24 hour strike over changes the Government wants

to make to their contracts. In return for an increase

in their basic pay, ministers want to reduce extra payments made

to junior doctors for working But the doctors' union,

the British Medical Association, says that overall the changes

will still leave their members worse off and -

they say - endanger patient safety. We're joined now from Milton Keynes

by Dr David Rouse who is the Deputy Chairman of the BMA's

Junior Doctors' Committee. One of the main areas of

disagreement is whether Saturday should be classified as a normal

working day. Why is it not a normal working day? I think it is because

of our members, they say so, they have family commitments and caring

commitments, and they extend well into the weekend and anti-social

hours, and our membership are telling us that Saturday should be

protected. The Conservatives think Saturday should be a normal day, if

they are to meet their manifesto commitment, to introduce a seven-day

NHS. Do you acknowledge that mandate? The seven-day NHS is

important, but we have to realise that junior doctors are already

providing good quality emergency care seven days a week. But not

equally across-the-board. Emergency care is a very good quality in the

NHS in the UK, Nicky look at elective care, providing that over

seven days, that needs more doctors on the ground that but if you look

at elective care. You cannot expect the care to remain the same, the

junior doctors want a safe, fair contract the patients, to allow them

to provide good quality care at all times and this is what the BMA are

fighting for. If Saturdays were treated differently, to the way they

are now, new still got the 11% basic pay increase, with the junior

doctors drop the strike? -- and you still got. This is not just about we

can pay, we think the contract -- weekend pay, we think the contract

is about other things. We do not believe working at nine o'clock on a

Friday evening is the same as working at two o'clock Tuesday, we

think it will lead to burn out in doctors, this is not just about

weekend working. Even if that was to be maintained, the contract as it

is, it would not be enough for you at this stage? You would want

recruitment drives to heighten the number of doctors and nurses and

radiologists, for example, as well as keeping Saturday sacrosanct for

junior doctors? This is about safety, you are making good points,

this is not just about having junior doctors at the weekend. If this was

to be a seven-day NHS we need other forms of health care professionals

at the weekend, like radiologists and nurses, this all requires money.

Junior doctors are saying the changes being imposed by the

government, we feel are unsafe, fundamentally, and this is why we

are here today on strike, while providing good quality emergency

care for patients, as well. Junior doctors do not do this lightly, they

are here because they are angry and they want to provide safe care for

their patients, not just now, but for generations to come, we want to

protect the NHS and this is why junior doctors are here today. This

is about the NHS as well as junior doctors. The government says it will

impose the new contract, what will you do then? If the government do

that, our members will continue to fight this, we have to do that, but

our door is always open and we want to go back to talks. We want to go

back to fair talks, talks with the threat of imposition are not fair

talks, we want the government to see sense and a compromise with us. We

want it to be safer for doctors and patients and for the NHS. We could

see rolling strikes if they impose it? Further action would be

discussed with the membership, but whatever action we take we will make

sure it is safe for patients, today we are taking emergency care only

action and we have senior doctors providing quality care for patients

right now. This is about providing safe patient care and that is what

we want for the future and this is why we are here, taking strike

action today. Thanks for joining us. Is this a strike about the safety of

care in the NHS or the overtime rate on Saturday? It is about safety and

a seven-day week have service, which we said we wanted in our manifesto.

If you are ill at the weekend you are less likely to be treated as

well as you are in the week. The figures are disputed. There are a

third fewer doctors on the rotor at the weekend, and it would be easier

for the government to not reform this public service, but we have a

commitment and we are doing so. What we are seeing are the vested

interests fighting against these reforms, the same thing we see in

education, we have resistance from the teacher unions and here we have

resistance from the BMA. Was it ever realistic to extend the NHS into a

kind of all singing all dancing seven-day week operation on existing

budgets? Surely you need more money to be able to do on a Sunday what

you would normally do on a Tuesday? There is more money going into the

health service. We have a strong economy and we are able to put more

money into this. But not for this. That is what the negotiations are

about, there are no pay cuts for junior doctors. The overall pay

package is not rising. So there's no more money going in. We expect

doctors to be on call and to be available seven days a week, that is

the purpose of why would you not pay them over time? You intend to bake

-- pay them the same weekly rate. They will be extirpate beyond five

o'clock and extirpated Sundays. -- extirpate beyond five o'clock and

extra pay on Sundays. There are many people who work at weekends. And

they get overtime. Why were they not get overtime for a Saturday? It may

not be a big rate, but surely recognise that Saturday is

different. You want more of them to work on a Saturday and therefore

they should be paid more than the basic rate? This is all part of the

negotiations, this includes an 11% raise in the basic package for

junior doctors. David Dalton has said that they were very close to an

agreement, very close them so the idea that they are going on strike

and threatening more strikes, that is irresponsible, and that is not

how we should be handling these important discussions, about how we

have a safer health service with doctors spending a few hours --

spending a few hours on the walls. This is what we are determined to

achieve because that is why we set out in our manifesto and this is not

the way that any union should be handling these negotiations. You

would not want to start from here, but what would you do to end the

strike? Would you offer them Saturday as overtime? The important

thing is not for politicians to negotiate, it is for people to get

around the BMA and listen to what the doctors are saying. There was a

deal which was almost reached, but Jeremy Hunt vetoed it. We don't know

that. No, but we've heard that Jeremy Hunt is seen as the obstacle

to them reaching a deal. The important thing is to listen to what

junior doctors are saying, I spent the day before Christmas shadowing

junior doctors in my local hospital and these are people who are

dedicated to the work they do and they are already working much longer

hours than they are being paid for, because they don't just walk away

from the job at five o'clock and down tools. Should they be paid in

overtime rate on Saturday? That is unsocial hours, and I think, yes,

that is something they should be common sated for. If they did that,

that would end the dispute? -- compensated. That is part of it,

there is something about the extra payment starting at midday on

Saturday, but most junior doctors will work one weekend in three at

the moment anyway, it is not that they don't want to take part in the

seven-day week NHS, but they want people to recognise how

overstretched and undivided they are. Junior doctors can be quite

senior, they can have worked in the health service for long time, and

they don't feel valued. Isn't that the point? Junior doctors already

stretched in the way, and your plan, without adding to their numbers, is

to spread them more evenly over seven days, to provide for cover at

the weekend? By definition they become even more stretched in the

week. The part that the negotiations is to have a lower limit on the

number of hours overtime worked, so we increase safety for those

doctors, that is one of the issues, that is part of the dispute. The

extra hours they were working, they were generating income, and that has

been part of the dispute. They say they are already stretched on

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and now you say they will not have to work

as many hours, but they will be working more hours at the weekend to

give us the seven-day week service, but this surely means they will be

even more stretched if you are not adding more doctors and you are

going to spread the same number out over seven days question not that is

logical. -- out over seven days? We have employed more doctors, 5000

more cover since we came to office in 2010, -- 5000 more, since became

to office in 2010. Animal junior doctors have you added? This will

depend, the funding is therefore the health service, we have increased

the number of doctors and nurses since 2010, and you have got to have

the wealth to generate that. I understand that. You can't promise

that, unless you have the funds to deliver that. But we have a strong

economy and we can do that. 90% have said they will walk away if the

contract is imposed on them. Is there a chance they can impose it on

them? Yes, they have said that. When that be the mother of all fights?

This is no way to conduct negotiations, trade union should not

be doing this with a professional body, negotiating in this way, it is

a very irresponsible thing, 3000 apartments have had to be cancelled

and that is no way to handle it. -- 3000 operations. They are bobbins

with the morale, and also in teaching, you have seen the report

-- there are problems with the morale, and also in teaching, you

have seen that report? The report says, despite the challenge of a

strong economy. Some would say it is a crisis. Despite those challenges

of a very tight and increasingly competitive graduate recruitment

market, there are more teachers now in teaching than ever before and the

pupil teacher ratio has remained stable and more people are coming

into teaching than are leaving. The other statistics, the number of

vacancies has increased by a third, indicators suggest that teacher

shortages are growing between 2011 and 2014, the recorded rate of

vacancies more than doubled from 0.5% of the teaching workforce to

1.2% and and is increasing. The number of teachers leaving the

profession has gone up by 11% over three years. You say this as a

challenge. This is a crisis. It is quite rare for them to use such

strong words. They say they can't approve this because of the

statistics I've just read out. 3000 more teachers the year leaving.

Going in the wrong direction. It is a consequence of a very strong

economy. We are addressing all these challenges by having very generous

new bursaries to encourage more physics, maths and English... They

are saying there are problems there, across all secondary subject,

particularly 14 out of 17 had unfulfilled training places and this

is getting worse at secondary level, compared with just two subjects five

years ago. All the statistics about the wrong way, whatever the

challenges. I say to you it is because of a freeze on public sector

pay. We have the highest number of teachers in our history in our

classrooms today. More people coming into teaching. Why have you got more

vacancies, more people leaving? Because of the challenge of a strong

economy. There are lots of opportunities for physics graduates,

maths graduates and foreign-language graduates... It is not an attractive

prospect because of pay freeze. That is not true. There are increasing

numbers of return is coming. But it is a challenge of a strong economy

and we are addressing that challenged by having generous

bursaries. We have expanded charities like teach first. We want

everybody to be helping us to encourage people to come into

teaching, spreading and Megan negative message. They also point

out that despite all those challenges, more people coming into

teaching than leaving for some there are challenges, a very strong

economy, something we wouldn't have if we had a Labour government. But

we are taking measures to attract more top graduates to come into

teaching. This year's figures show 2000 more undergraduates coming into

teaching than last year. OK, thank you.

Now - the General Secretary of the TUC will deliver a petition

today signed by 200,000 people in opposition

to the Government's Trade Union Bill - a bill that's being debated

in the Lords this afternoon, where it's facing considerable opposition.

It's amongst a number of controversial measures

the Government is taking to change the way politics is in Britain

It's a rough old game politics, and the Government

One big reform is the way unions fund the Labour party.

At the moment, union members are given the option

to opt out of paying into their political fund.

The Government believes this is unfair and instead argues union

What's more, George Osborne has also announced

short money, which is given to all political parties to allow

them to carry out their parliamentary work, will be

Labour are crying foul and claim the moves could cost them up to

It's not only Labour who are taking a mauling,

the charity sector is angry over proposals which would mean

charities would no longer be able spend central government grants

The Government argues taxpayers money should only be spent

on helping people, however National Council

for Voluntary Organisations call it an 'insane policy'.

It's not just about money, the Government has reformed voter

Now everyone must register individually, instead

of by household, and Labour argue the changes

are happening too quickly and many people will slip

Thank you Jo Co. Two big weaknesses of our party funding system is

Labour's overdependence on the unions and your overdependence on

rich headphones, people in private equity and Russian oligarchs. Why

have you only decided to deal with the union side and not with your own

way of funding? Each of those issues are right in their own right. It is

important that you don't just have your money taken from your salary to

pay into a party, party coffers, but you have to actively opt in. If you

say you have to opt out of an insurance policy when you buy a

television set, there would be uproar. The same principle applies

to joining a trade union. You should have to opt in to pay the levy, not

actively opt out. It has been the policy of every previous

Conservative government since the 1920s to allow an opt out rather

than an opt in, what has changed? It is wrong in principle. The Winston

Churchill government, the Thatcher government were wrong in principle?

In those past governments you mentioned the closed shop was

lawful. Mrs Thatcher abolished the closed shop but did not abolish the

opt out procedure. She should have done and Winston Churchill should

have got rid of the closed shop. Supposing you are right, why would

you also not deal with the fact that unregulated hedge funds managers,

unregulated private equity, people who don't reside here very much,

like Russian oligarchs, can donate unlimited sums of money to the

Conservatives? Unlimited. They can give unlimited sums to other

political parties, the Liberal party and the Labour Party, and they do.

Should there not be a limit? There is a limit. Anything over ?5,000 has

to be declared. In a free society you have to allow people use their

money to make a political case, so long as it is transparent and

declared. We try to have party discussions in the last Parliament,

to try and resolve this party funding overall and it collapsed.

The alternative is to have taxpayer funded party funding and that is not

something the public wants. Most trade union members do not vote

Labour. So why shouldn't there be the principle that if you join a

trade union, you are then asked do you also want to contribute to the

Labour Party? And if you do you tick a box, rather than being

automatically taken, without you getting the chance? It is

contributing to the trade unions political fund, which they would use

to make donations to the Labour Party and also to campaign on a

range of issues. We had the Collins review named after our previous

General Secretary that was looking at issues like that. We were looking

at moving perhaps, reforms to how the party is funded by the unions.

What the Government is doing now, as you said in your opening question,

this is entirely one-sided. This is an attack on the trade unions and

relationship with Labour. We are also seeing an attack on the way

charities are engaged. I take your point of view. What I'm asking you

about the principle, even if it is one-sided, it could be wrong they

are not trying to clear up both sides, that was the implication

behind my question. But what is wrong with the principle, given that

most trade union members are not Labour voters, that if they want

their fees, a chunk of their fees to go to the Labour Party, that that

should be an explicit act, rather than something that has happened?

With the Collins review we were looking up at bringing that in over

a number of years. So you do concede in principle? I think in principle

that is something we are ready to look at. But what this government is

doing with the Bill now, it would be a three-month here. The legislation

comes in. Not long. The huge logistical effort. There is also

something about not allowing electrical ballots being done

online, so the sheer cost of the trade unions of operating this. We

have just seen Bernie Sanders win an amazing victory in New Hampshire,

2-1 over Hillary Clinton and she runs the biggest political machine

in America and there is a lot of money in the Clinton machine. Bernie

Sanders managed 3 million individual donations, not big money most of it,

I heard him last night, at about 2:30am, most donations under $100.

Why can't you, Labour and Conservative do that in this

country? I think that is something Labour wanted to move toward. There

is nothing stopping you. We now have more than 370,000 members, double

what they were in the general election. ?3 to join. We do want to

move away from the big donations dominating politics, but it is far

more of an issue, the Conservatives have their black and white for ball

where you had people paying huge amounts of money. This year it

wasn't so much, but I take point! You have some people who sometimes

don't even have much of a connection to politics in the UK paying a lot

of money. We are not able to do that in the Labour Party. We are funded

by ordinary people, through trade unions or Alan mentioned. We have

what many people regarded, not necessarily against what you do in

the unions, but see it as one-sided. Hitting Labour sources rather than

doing anything about your own. You are now putting tougher rules in the

charities and what they can do with money. Changing voter registration.

That may be right or wrong but certainly more of a help to you than

to Labour. You add it all up and it kind of looks like the arrogance of

power. Each of those issues is writing its own right. We had the

problems in Tower Hamlets, the election courts were condemning the

use of ghost voters. We are tackling those voters. These changes to your

advantage. What we want is an electoral register that has

integrity. We had this system in Northern Ireland since 2002 and it

has worked perfectly well. In terms of charities lobbying, when people

give money to charities or charities use public money that we pay to

provide services we don't expect that money to be used for political

lobbying. Charities are not there just to provide services, they are

there if they feel the law is penalising people, that they are

there to help. I think is right for them to lobby those issues. The

attack on charities in some ways is even more important. We want that

money spent on vulnerable people and the services they are meant to be

providing. We will have two comeback because we're up against PMQs.

Every week we give you the chance to get hold of a coveted

All that we ask is that you carefully watch a finely crafted

piece of film containing music and archive from a particular year

and then guess which year they're from.

But - rather than relying on your own knowledge -

some of you, we suspect, are using the internet.

Or the World Wide Web as Gordon Brown used to call it.

Now - this may help you get hold of a mug -

but as our guest of the day, Schools' Minister, Nick Gibb,

has said - and I quote here - "It is mistaken to believe you can

outsource your memory to Google and still expect to think well",

You should speak to the researchers on this programme!

And now - with or without the assistance of Google -

other search engines are available - can you tell us when this happened?

# Oh, oh, oh, you're never coming back.#

Your party's long history of anti-Semitism...

Why don't you apologise, you gutless coward?!

# Poppin bottles in the ice, like a blizzard

# When we drink we do it right gettin slizzard

# Sippin sizzurp in my ride,

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terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website -

It's coming up to midday here - just take a look at Big Ben -

and that can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's Questions

And that's not all - Laura Kuenssberg is here.

Welcome. What is buzzing this morning, what is happening, what is

going on? There are huge amounts of attention on junior doctors strikes,

thousands of doctors not going to work today. A big stand-off between

the BMA and Jeremy Hunt, and no sign of a resolution on the horizon. I

think Jeremy Corbyn is going to choose not to talk about that. The

last doctors strike we thought surely he will raise it, he didn't,

he rose something else instead. I think today he may return to one of

his favourite issues, housing. Especially on this policy of paid to

stay council tenants who start to earn better, ?30,000 a year after

start paying market rent and council properties. We know this is an issue

very dear to Jeremy Corbyn's heart, council housing. Do we know it

affects a lot of people? There was a report at the weekend, which is why

I think he might raise it at the PMQ 's. I think it might propel it into

PMQ 's. They couldn't afford the higher rent? Couldn't afford the

market rent because they were earning more but the jump would be

higher than the comparative jump in their salaries. As ever, with

statistics, we know PMQ 's can descend into a war of statistics,

with statistics about the potential impact of policy. It is not that

easy to be precise about what the impact would be. I wouldn't be

surprised if there might not be a rather cheeky question as Jeremy

Corbyn likes to use questions from the public, from Mary Cameron from

oxygen. Just briefly, explain why? -- from Oxfordshire. Who likes being

told off by them on? Not least the priming do, publicly. -- not least

the Prime Minister. Mary Cameron has got involved in a campaign to stop

cuts to nursery services. This is a raw nerve for David Cameron not just

because of that issue but his council leader made public a letter

David Cameron wrote to him after complaining about cuts. A big issue

for lots of people around the country, an embarrassing one for

David Cameron. He doesn't go on what something that has been a problem

for the Prime Minister in the last 72 hours. He has taken on Europe. Is

because he's uncomfortable with Europe? There are lots of reporters

morning and conversations with people in the Shadow Cabinet, I am

sure Kerry will have a view on this, about how full throttle Jeremy

Corbyn will be in his support for staying in the European union. I saw

a report this morning that he wasn't planning to take part in any remain

rally. That is something that has been suggested. It was put to me

yesterday. We will come back to that. First, we go

I know the House has been saddened by the death of Harry Harper, after

a great career, an adviser to David Blunkett, he was returned to this

place last May, succeeding David Blunkett himself. He was in this

place a short time and became a popular MP, recognised for his

commitment to his constituents and his beliefs. He continued to carry

out his work, as an MP, throughout his treatment, we offer his wife and

their five children our condolences. This morning I had meetings with

ministerial colleagues and in additional to Mike Judy 's in this

House, I will have further comments to make -- in addition to my duties

in this House. I would like to agree about the sad loss for the member of

Sheffield and Hillsborough, he came to this House with an excellent

record in local government and will be sadly missed. The whole House

send our condolences to his family at this sad time. Housing is the

number one issue in my constituency, queries on a workable local plan,

looking after our green spaces and strongly offering the Conservative

value of the right to buy, would the Prime Minister agree that the help

to buy items, with one being taken out every 30 seconds, is the right

way to promote savings and encourage homeownership? -- ISAs. I agree,

that is why these help to buy ISAs, where we matched the money they put

in, it can ready help, and so what we have seen under this government,

is 40,000 people exercise their right to buy their council House,

now we're extending that to all housing association tenants and we

have seen 130,000 people would help to buy, getting the first flat or

the first House, and there is more to do, mostly building houses, but

helping people with their deposits is vital. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you,

Mr Speaker. I joined the Prime Minister and the member for

Eastleigh in paying tribute to Harry Harper, the Honourable member for

Sheffield and Hillsborough, a former miner who passed away last week,

just a short time ago Harry used his glass question here to ask the Prime

Minister questions about the Sheffield Masters and the steel

industry -- his last question. I hope the primers to reflects on his

-- hope the Prime Minister reflects on his diligence regarding that part

of his committee. I said to his wife, how would they like to

remember Harry? She said, we have admired the bravery and carriage he

showed in his life, which was formed in June the miners strike and which

carried him forward for the rest of his life -- which was formed jeering

the miners strike. People will remember him as a decent man, and we

are very sad at his passing. Mr Speaker, also following the member

for Eastleigh, I have a question on housing. I have an e-mail from

Rosie, cheese in her 20s. -- she is in her 20s. CHEERING

LAUGHTER Unfortunately, the Rosie who has

written to me does not have the same good housing that the Chief Whip of

our party does. But aspiration springs eternal. The Rosie who has

written to me, cheese in 20s and she says, " -- she is in her 20s and she

says, "I worked very hard at my job and I'm still having to live at home

with my parents, the lack of housing options are forcing her to consider

moving, she says. She asks the Prime Minister, what action it he is going

to take to help young people and families suffering from on realistic

healths prizes and uncapped rents to get somewhere safe and secure to

live? -- House prices. When you get a letter from the Chief Whip, that

normally spells trouble, I should say. What I would say to Rosie, we

want to do everything we can to help young people get on the housing

ladder, that is why we have these help to save ISAs and I hope she is

looking at that, we are cutting taxes and she will be able to earn

?11,000 before she starts paying any taxes. If Rosie is a tenant in a

housing association home, she can buy that home because we are

introducing and extending the right to buy, and with help to bite she

will have the opportunity to register for help to buy which gives

people the chance to have a small deposit, but still a chance of

owning their own home. If she wants to be a homeowner, shared ownership

can make a real difference and in some parts of the country you will

need a deposit of just a few thousand pounds to begin the process

of becoming a homeowner, but Ira lies that building more houses, we

have got to deliver for Rosie -- but building more buildings. I'm very

pleased that the Prime Minister would like to help deliver decent

housing, Rosie lives and works in London, as the Prime Minister knows,

London is very expensive. He talks about people getting on the housing

ladder, but the reality is, home ownership has fallen under his

government by 200,000 and it rose by a million and the last Labour

government, and his record is one of actually some years of failure on

housing. He said that council homes sold on the right to buy would be

replaced like the like, can be primers to tell us how that policy

is panning out? -- Gandhi Prime Minister. -- can the Prime Minister.

What happened under Labour, one council home was built for every

hundred and seven seat council homes they sold. That is the record --

170. We have said we will make sure that two homes are built for every

council home in London, that is so, that is because the member for

Richmond insisted on that in an amendment to the housing bill. These

take some years to build, but the money that they will be built, the

money comes back to the Treasury. The Prime Minister should be aware

that just one home has been built for every eight that have been sold

under his government. People are increasingly finding it very devil

called find anywhere to live. The Chancellor's crude cuts in housing

benefit for those in supported housing, they are putting at risk

hundreds of thousands of elderly people, people with mental health

condition, war veterans and women fleeing domestic violence unit

support. Can the Prime Minister tell the House what estimate housing

dividers have made in terms of the impact of this policy on supported

housing? We are going to increase housing supply in the social sector

by an ?8 billion housing budget gym this parliament which will build

400,000 affordable homes. When it comes to our reforms of housing

benefit, yes, we have cut housing benefit, because it was out of

control when we came to government. There were families in London who

were getting ?100,000 of housing benefit per family. Think how many

people, think how many Rosie's were going to work, working hard, just to

provide that housing benefit for one family. We support supported housing

schemes and we will look very carefully to make sure they can work

well in the future, but I make no apology for the fact that in this

parliament we are cutting social rents, so for Rosie, for example,

living in social housing, going out to work but she will have lower rent

under this government. I'm pleased the Prime Minister got onto the

question of supported housing. Housing providers estimate that

nearly half of all supported housing schemes will close, one in four

providers are set to close all of their provision, this is a very

serious crisis. I assume the Prime Minister is not content to people

with mental health conditions with nowhere to live, so can he assure

the House that the warm words he has given on supported housing will be

matched by action and he will stop this cut which will destroy this

supported housing sector? We will continue to support the supported

housing sector and the report that he quotes from, it was an opinion

poll with an extremely leading question, if he actually looks at

what it was he was looking at. The changes that we are making, reducing

social rents by 1%, every year for four years, that is good news for

people who go out to work and work hard and like to pay less rent. That

goes with the lower taxes they will be paying and the more childcare

they will be getting, and the other change we are making which does not

come into force until 2018, is to make sure that we are not paying

housing benefit to social tenants way above what we would pay to

private sector tenants. The simple point is this, and this is where I

think Labour had got to focus, every penny you spend on housing subsidy

is money you can't spend on building houses -- have got to focus. Let's

take this right back to Rosie in the beginning, it she would like a

country where we build homes that she would like a country where she

can buy a home, she would like a country with a strong economy so you

can afford to buy a home, all of those things we are delivering, but

you will not deliver these if you go on subsidising housing, and the

welfare benefit, one day Labour has got to realise that the welfare

benefit has got to be brought under control. -- the welfare system.

Shelter estimates that the measures in the housing bill will lose

180,000 affordable homes over the next four years. The Prime Minister

is overseeing a very damaging housing crisis, it is prising out

people from buying, it is not providing enough social housing,

therefore many people are forced to rely on the private rented sector.

The benches behind him recently voted against an amendment but

forward by my honourable friend or homes to be fit for human

habitation. -- for. Labour invested ?22 billion in government, in

bringing social homes at two decent homes standard, and there are now 11

million people in this country who are private renters. Does the Prime

Minister know how many of those homes do not meet the decent homes

standard? To listen to Labour, when in the last five years, we built for

council houses than they built in 13 years. -- we built more. Where was

he? Where was he when that was going on? 13 years and I hope this record

on housing. What we are doing is an ?8 billion housing budget, that will

provide 400,000 new affordable homes and a target to build a million

homes during this Parliament, getting housing benefit down so we

can spend money on housing and having a strong economy that can

support the housing we need. Mr Speaker, I was asking through you,

the Prime Minister, how many of the 11 million renters are living in

homes that are not going to make the decent homes standard and therefore

are substandard? 1000 of those in the private rented sector do not

meet that standard and shells found six out of ten renters have issues

like damp, mould, leaking roofs and Windows, it is simply not good

enough -- shelter found. Millions are struggling to get the homes they

deserve, more families slipping into temporary accommodation,

homelessness rising, too few homes being built, social housing under

pressure, families forced into low standard, overpriced rented sector,

young people unable to move out of the family home and start their own

lives, when is the Prime Minister going to realise that there is a

housing crisis in Britain, and his government needs to address it now,

so that we do not continue with this dreadful situation in this country.

Homelessness is less than half the peak today than it was under the

last Labour government. There is a simple point here. You can only

invest in new houses, you can only restore existing houses, you can any

build new houses and support people into those houses if you have a

strong economy. We inherited mass unemployment, and economy that

completely collapsed, a banking crisis and now we've got zero

inflation, wages growing, unemployment at 5%, and economy

growing and people able, for the first time, to look to their future

and see they can buy and own a house in our country.

Mr speak your Nadia was a 19-year-old when Daesh came to her

village. They tortured her, raped and made her laid. Nadia's story is

the same as thousands of Yazidi women except thousands are still

held in captivity and Nadia escaped. In fact, Nadia is in the public

gallery today. Will the Minister join me in accepting acknowledging

Nadia's bravery and resilience and the qualities that allowed her to

triumph over Daesh? Will he support Yazidi women? Let me thank my friend

for raising this issue and welcome Nadia, who is here with us today.

Her and their Yazidi community have suffered appallingly at this

murderous, brutal, fascist organisation in Syria and Iraq. We

must do everything we can to defeat Daesh and its ideology. We are

playing a leading role in this global coalition. In terms of Iraq,

where so many Yazidis suffered, Daesh have lost 40% of the territory

controlled. As I said at the time in the debate about Syria, this will

take a long time. Building up Iraqi security forces, working with Syrian

opposition forces, building the capacity of governments in both

countries to drive this organisation out of the Middle East. However long

it takes, we must stick at it. Angus Robertson. We on these benches join

in the condolences in relation to Harry and pass on our condolences at

this sad time to his family for supper by Minister made a vow and

his party signed an agreement that there would be no detriment to

Scotland with new devolution arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury

proposing plans that may be detrimental towards Scotland to the

tune of ?3 billion? First of all, we accept this myth principles of no

detriment. No detriment to Scotland at the time when this transfer is

made. -- the Smith principles. And then no detriment of Scottish

taxpayers, but also to the rest of the United Kingdom taxpayers, who we

have to bear in mind as we take into account this very important

negotiation. I have had good negotiations with the First

Minister, negotiations are underway. I want us to successfully complete

this very important piece of devolution in a fair and reasonable

way and these negotiations should continue. Let me remind the Right

Honourable gentleman, if we had had full fiscal devolution, with oil

revenues having collapsed by 94%, then the right honourable Gentleman

and his party would be weeks away from a financial calamity for

Scotland. Thank you. In the context of referendums, whether in Scotland

or across the UK on EU membership, don't voters have a right to know

that what is promised by the UK Government can be trusted and will

be delivered in full. Will the Prime Minister told the Treasury Time is

running out on delivering of their fiscal framework and they must do a

deal that is fair both to the people of Scotland, and fair to the rest of

the United Kingdom. I can tell him everything that has been committed

to by this government will be delivered. We committed to this huge

act of devolution to Scotland and we delivered it. We committed to the

Scotland Bill and are well on the way to delivering it. All the things

we said we would, including those vital Smith principles. There is an

ongoing negotiations to reach a fair settlement and I would say to the

Scottish First Minister and Finance Minister, they have to recognise

there must be fairness across the rest of the United Kingdom as well.

But with goodwill, I can tell you Mr Speaker, no one is more keen on an

agreement on me. I want the Scottish National party here and in Holyrood

to have to start making decisions, which taxes are you going to raise,

what are you going to do with benefits? I want to get rid of,

frankly, this grievance agenda and let you get on with the governing

agenda and then we can see what you are made of.

The skills shortage in engineering in Wildschut is particularly a

problem. It is threatening and undermining all the work we have

done in job creation and also supporting businesses. It is quite

simply a ticking time bomb. Mr Speaker, may I ask the Prime

Minister, what more can he do to remove the stigma, misunderstanding

and all the problems associated around Stem subjects and careers? I

think my honourable friend is right to raise this. There are special

circumstances in Wiltshire because you have the enormous success of

Dyson, hiring engineers and skilled mathematicians and scientists from

every university in the country and long may that continue. What we will

do is help by training 3 million apprentices in this parliament will

stop we are giving special help teachers of Stem subjects and them

into teaching. I think there was a lot business and industry can do to

help us in this, by going into schools and talking about what these

modern engineering careers are all about. How much the film and people

can get from these careers, to encourage people to change the

culture when it comes to pursuing these careers. Mr Speaker, young

people are afraid of losing their homes. Women denied the pensions

they were expecting an increasingly the needy left exposed without the

social care they need to live a decent life. When will the Prime

Minister address the scandals? What we are doing for pensioners is

putting in place the triple lock so every pensioner knows there can

never be another shameful 75p increase in the pension that we saw

under Labour. They know that every year it will either be wages, prices

or 2.5%. That is why the pension is so much higher than when I became

Prime Minister. Of course we need to make sure there is a fair settlement

for local government as well. We will be hearing more about that

later today. But this ability of local councils to raise special

council tax for social care will help in an area where there is great

pressure. Nigel Adams. The Spitfire was a crucial element

in us winning the Battle of Britain 75 years ago. And keeping our

country free from tyranny. However, there are some who fear that our

independent, nuclear deterrent could be as obsolete as a Spitfire. Good

my right honourable friend the Prime Minister assure the House and the

country this is not the case? It takes quite a talent in the Shadow

Defence Secretary to insult Spitfire pilots and sub Mariner 's all in one

go. Another week, another ludicrous Labour position on defence. The last

word should go to our right honourable member in Bridgend who

tweeted, oh dear, oh dear, oh my God. Need to go to rest in a

darkened room. I'm sure she will find the rest of her party will be

there with her! At today's's select committee the

Business Secretary confirmed the Government won't support the EU

commission in raising tariffs on dumped steel from countries like

China. Why won't the UK Government stand up for UK steel? We have

repeatedly stood up for UK steel, including supporting taking

anti-dumping measures in the EU. But that is not enough. We need to get

behind public procurement for steel and that is what we are doing for

them we need to get behind reducing energy bills for steel and that is

what we're doing, we need to support communities like his own who have

seem job losses, and that is exactly what we're doing. We recognise what

a vital part Britain's industrial case British Steel is that is why we

are backing it. Thank you Mr Speaker. Julian Assange is accused

of rape and is on the run. Despite this, a United Nations panel nobody

has ever heard of, declared last week that he has been arbitrarily

detained and somehow deserving of compensation. Does my right

honourable friend agree with me that this was a nonsensical decision?

That Julian Assange sure turned himself over to the Swedish

prosecutors and if anyone is deserving of compensation, it is the

British taxpayer, who has had to pay ?12 million to police his Ecuadorian

hideout? My right honourable friend is absolutely right. I think this

was a ridiculous decision for you have a man ear with an outstanding

allegation of rape against him. He barricaded himself into the

Ecuadorian Embassy but claims he was arbitrarily detained. The only

person who detained himself was himself. What he should do is come

out of that embassy and face the arrest warrant against him. He is

being asked to stand trial in Sweden, a country with a fair

reputation for justice. He should bring to an end this whole sorry

saga. Mike Weir. Women's aid groups have raised concerns that changes in

social housing benefits may close many refuges. Can the Prime Minister

exempt refuges from this? I said in a to questions from the opposition,

we want to support supported housing projects. There are work in many of

our constituencies and we have seen how important they are. These

changes we are talking about, about housing benefit, don't come into

place until 2018. There is plenty of time to make sure that we support

supported housing projects. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next month Milton

Keynes will host the first-ever National apprenticeship fair. We

have a strong record in expanding apprenticeships. But is there not

still a need for a cultural shift in careers advice, to show the

high-level apprenticeships are equally valid to university places?

I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. The careers advice

we need to give young people is that there is a choice for every school

either, we hope, of either a university place, because have

uncapped unit per university places or apprenticeships and we to explain

if you become an apprentice, that doesn't rule out doing a degree or a

degree level qualification later on, during your apprenticeship. The

option of earning and learning is stronger in Britain today than it

has ever been before. Thank you Mr Speaker. Does the Prime

Minister agree that housing protects human rights of people in the United

Kingdom and deserves full and careful consideration question that

will he give an assurance that his repeal of the Human Rights Act will

not conflict with Scotland? We will very carefully all of these issues.

I would say to the honourable lady and honourable members opposite, the

idea that there were no human rights in Britain before the Human Rights

Act is an absolutely ludicrous notion. This house has been a great

Bastian and defender of human rights, but we will look very

carefully of the timing of any announcements we make. Mr Speaker I

spent most of my working life in children's hospices, rely on

donations from organisations like children in need, you have a long

association with the town of Pudsey. Would my right honourable friend

join me and the people of Pudsey in paying tribute to Sir Terry Wogan,

who did so much to inspire millions of pounds to be donated to these

quarters question what I am very happy to do that. The honourable

member representing his constituency, where Pudsey has such

a connection is right to raise this. I think Terry Wogan was one of the

great icons of this country. Like many people in this house you felt

you grew up with him, listening to him in the radio, in the cart or

watching him present programmes. At many people's favourite was the

Eurovision Song contest, which every year he brought such great humour

too. I think we were all fans and he will be hugely missed and his work

with children in need was particularly special. On Monday I

attended the work and pensions tribunal appeal hearing for my

constituent, a brave and inspiring woman whose dwarfism. Despite being

able to climb staircases except on all fours she was awarded zero

disability points by her assessor can I asked the Prime Minister if he

has if he has attended any tribunal hearings and if so if he found the

process fair dignified and compassion question what I am happy

to look into the Casey races. I have people coming to surgery with

enquiries either about employment and support allowance or about

disability living allowance. I have the experience having had a disabled

son of filling out all the forms myself, and looking forward to the

new system, which I think with the proper medical check, will work out

better. I have listened to these arguments but we have to have a

system of adjudication which is independent of politicians. Growing

up nearby I always knew I was nearly home when I saw the iconic cooling

towers of the power stations on the horizon. On Monday the owners of the

remaining power station announced its likely closure this summer. Well

my right honourable friend asked the Secretary of State to meet with me

and discuss further the Government's support that can be provided to the

150 workers and the provisions that can be made to ensure the site is

redeveloped as quickly as possible? I will certainly arrange for that

meeting to take place. We should thank everyone who has worked at

power stations that come to the end of their lives, for the work they

have done to give us a lecture city, to keep our lights on and our

economy moving. I think she is absolutely right. As coal powered

power stations come to the end of their lives, we must make sure

proper redevelopment takes place so we provide jobs for constituents

like hers. The football supporters Federation is considering calling on

fans to hold mass walk-outs, in order to get their voices heard

about the issue of ticket prices. Will the Prime Minister act, to give

fans a place at the table in club boardrooms, in order that their

voices can be heard when issues such as ticket prices are being

discussed? I will look very carefully at the suggestion the

honourable gentleman makes. I think there is a problem here, where some

teams and some clubs put up prices very rapidly every year, even though

so much of the money for football comes through the sponsorship and

equipment and other sources. I will look very carefully at what he says.

The vital debate and votes on the Trident successes submarine should

have been held in the last parliament but was blocked by the

Liberal Democrats. Given the farm the Prime Minister had a few moments

and go at the Labour Party 's expense over Trident's success, it

must be tempting for him to put off the vote until the conference in

October for, I urge him to do the statesman-like thing and hold that

vote as soon as is of, because everyone is ready for it and

everyone is expecting it. What we should do is have the vote when we

need to have the vote, and that is exactly what we will do. No one

should be in any doubt that this government is going to press ahead

with all the decisions that are necessary to replace in full hour

Trident is a Marines. I think the Labour Party should listen to Lord

Hutton, who was their Defence Secretary for many years. He said,

if Labour wants to retain any credibility on defence whatsoever it

better recognise the abject futility of what its leadership is currently

proposing. I hope when that vote comes we will have support from

right across this House of Commons. In light of today's's damning

National Audit Office report on teacher shortages, will the Prime

Minister take urgent steps to help schools such as those in my

constituency to recruit and retain the best teachers, including

extending the London weighting to Harrow schools and other suburban

schools question what we will look carefully at this report. There are

13,100 more teachers in my schools than when I became per minister. Our

teachers are better qualified than ever before. People are shouting out

about increased pupil numbers but they might be interested to know we

have 40 7000 fewer tuple is in overcrowded schools because we put

investment in where it was needed. But we do need schemes like teach

first, like our national leadership programme, that are getting some of

the best teachers into the schools where they are most needed. My right

honourable friend the Prime Minister deserves great credit for the

results of the Syria replenishment conference, which was held under his

leadership in London. He will be aware this can only address the

symptoms of the catastrophe and not the causes. What can he tell the

House the government can do to make sure it reaches a speedy success

question mark can I thank my right honourable friend. It gives me the

opportunity to thank my co-hosts the Norwegians, the Germans and whether

Kuwait is on the Secretary General of the United Nations. We raised in

one day more money than has ever been raised that one of these

conferences ever in their history, over $10 billion. I want to pay

tribute to my right honourable friend, the secretary of state is a

defeat he did a lot of work. It will help close and feed people and give

them the medicine they need. We need a political solution and go on

working with all our political partners to deliver this. It

requires all countries, including Russia, to recognise the need for a

moderate Sunni opposition to be at the table, to create a transitional

authority in Syria. Without that, I feel we will end up with a situation

where you have Assad in one corner and Daesh in the other. The worst

outcome in terms of terrorism, refugees and the outcome of Syria. I

am sure the Prime Minister is looking forward to visiting Hull

next year. As the UK's city of culture we are backed by many

prestigious organisations like the BBC and RAC, but we can do much

better, to make this a real national celebration of culture. Will the

Prime Minister join with me in urging the many London based

National arts organisations to actually do their bit and contribute

to the success? I think the honourable lady makes a very

important point, which is our national cultural institutions have

immense amount of works and prestige that they can bring out to regional

Galleries and regional centres when there is a city -- culture event. I

will enjoy visiting Hull Foster I know my right honourable friend will

want to join me in the city of Hull. It is a city of poets, home to

Philip Larkin for many years, and of course, Stevie Smith. Sometimes one

might want to contemplate what it's like waving and not drowning. The

election for the chair of the environmental audit committee is now

taking place in committee room 16. Voting will continue until 1:30pm.

Also voting on a deferred division is taking place in the no lobby.

This will continue until 2pm. We wanted to stay with that

announcement. It is not mean much to me X -- it did not mean much to me!

As Laura said, Jeremy Corbyn went on housing, erased a number of issues

through his six questions -- he raised. They were all about housing.

The Prime Minister reeled off a list of things which the government had

done or was about to do regarding housing and we will discuss a number

of things. First, what did the viewers make of it? It was all about

housing and the viewers responded, but people feel that Jeremy Corbyn

needs to be tougher with the Prime Minister. One person said, is he the

opposition housing minister? He needs to ask questions on other

subjects. Another one says, why does Jeremy Corbyn continue to let David

Cameron off the hook? Robert says, well done, Jeremy Corbyn, a bit of

venom for a change, but another one says that his methodical approach

does not work at PMQs, and for most people it is the only time they see

Parliament at play and they see the priming is the easily swatting away

Jeremy Corbyn's questions -- the Prime Minister. Helen says, poor

Rosie, she chose the wrong champion in Jeremy Corbyn, his argument was

wiped out by the Prime Minister. Another one says David Cameron needs

to have a walk around the West End of London, and that he has never

seen as many people sleeping on the streets. The biggest domestic story

of the day, the doctors strike, we did not have one question on that,

and then the incredible developing humanitarian crisis north of Aleppo,

at the Turkish border, up to 70,000 refugees are heading that way, the

combined forces of Assad and Hezbollah and Mr Putin, destroying

the moderate factions in Syria, the insularity of the House of Commons

sometimes beggars belief, I would say. If we go back ten days, you

found British politician sounding cautious about the peace process,

getting off the ground in Geneva, and the Foreign Secretary has been

very involved in the shuttle diplomacy. Not so long ago we spent

hours in the studio talking about whether the government would get

enough votes to back expanding air strikes into Syria, that was a big

issue. Just about 10-12 weeks ago, but here, the crisis has gone

through into a completely... Not a new phase, but a very different

phase. And yet, nothing in the House of Commons. And yet, the Russian

ambassador was on Newsnight. No, Channel 4. OK, we are allowed to

mention Channel 4 News, other news programmes are available! They have

had some good stories this week, though. We have the situation with

the Ross and ambassador, we took this vote to bomb Islamic State in

that part of Syria -- the Russian ambassador. But the Assad forces

backed by the Russians, they are mopping up the non-Islamic State

forces, and so we could end up in a position where Vladimir Putin could

say it is him and Assad against Islamic State, whose side are you

on? It looks like it could pan out that way, no one could have been

moved by the terrible pictures coming from the Turkish Syria

border, where people have been fleeing. People turning up at the

Turkish border. Turkey has had an open door policy, but they have

closed the border and no one is getting through, apart from the most

sick and vulnerable. This is very complex, geopolitical discussion, it

is a difficult thing for backbenchers to raise in small

bite-size questions, shall we say, but the biggest bait which is

happening at the moment over Europe in this country, the top issue is

about immigration -- the biggest bait. That is directly affected by

the refugee situation which is unfolding in Syria at a rate of

knots. As you suggest, one senior politician here, said to me, we are

tearing our hair out and they think the British government should be

talking much more about this issue. But right now, it does not seem to

be a case of the wheel at the top. The European Union urged Turkey to

close its southern border with Syria to stop them getting in. Now that

there is a humanitarian crisis on that border, the European Union is

urging Turkey to open the border. Make up your mind! It is difficult

to look at what has happened with the European Union and the difficult

attitudes towards migration, but you can conclude there is very much

going on apart from a chaotic approach which is not helping. And

talk about transit camps, being built, at the moment. Yes, and

earlier, the Prime Minister suggested that as part of our

debate, about migration, the prospect of having camps in Calais,

suddenly arriving on the coast of Kent. And this is an issue in the

biggest debate of the year, but not something which is punching its way

into the chamber. It has gone beyond the argument of another million

refugees coming in this year, or migrants, however you want to

classify them. It is quite clear, as the Assad Putin forces mop up,

people are terrified, because they remember what Assad's father was

capable of and what he has been capable of and what Russia are

capable of. I've been watching interviews with these refugees, they

need to get out and there will be a pressure for millions more to get

out of there. It reaches a scale... Some reports that Nato might have to

have warships in the GMC to cope with what will now be a massive

influx, -- the GMC. Ten times as many people have raised the terrible

voyage from Turkey into Greece than in January last year. It makes you

wonder, when you talk to ministers privately, about the timing of the

referendum, there has been the question on the European referendum,

in June, and having it take place then, in part because there is a

fear in the increase of migrants in the summer, but that feels rather

misplaced. This is happening in front of our eyes. Yes. There were

another 35 people killed just 24 hours ago. What about Jordan and

Lebanon? They are now at capacity. Jordan has said they cannot take any

more, because they have huge numbers. It sometimes makes our

arguments as to whether there should be a refugee camp in Calais or in

Kent slightly diminished. There is a humanitarian crisis happening in

many places, in northern Africa, there are thousands of refugees in

that part of the world, as well, and it is important to provide

humanitarian aid, as we have done in the government. Another billion

pounds from us and from others coming up, as well, but as we know

from the secret minutes, or the Turkish president, with Donald Tusk

and Jean-Claude Juncker, he pointed out that you gave 400 billion to

Greece last year. A bailout is a different issue. You can see the

point. Yes, that money does come back eventually. This is ?1 billion

from us, the agreement reached with other European nations about putting

more money into humanitarian aid is important and that is a better way

of deterring this transit across dangerous waters in the

Mediterranean. But whatever we do, it is a daunting prospect. It is one

thing giving assistance, but we hear that they are at breaking point, I

went to Jordan very early in the conflict, to see the camps but since

then it has grown exponentially. It is not enough in itself to just be

focusing efforts on giving aid to people there, it is a far bigger

issue. It is a huge issue. Just one question on that, but at least we

spent some time discussing it. Laura, thanks for joining us. We

will see you next week. No, there is a recess next week, but crucially

next week is the summit in Brussels. At the end of the week. Yes, a week

on Friday, and I will be there, looking ahead to the next day, and

by the end of next week we might have the deal. I will be watching

you from New York. So - it's official -

parliament is going vegan and ending it's 1,000 year old tradition

of printing Britain's laws It's a move driven by financial

rather than ethical concerns - But it chimes with the choice

of large numbers of people to cut animals and the produce of animals

out of their diets - like our guest of the day

Kerry McCarthy here, But what's wrong with consuming

large quantities of cheap, Here's Justine Brian

from the Institute of Ideas It is difficult to read a weekend

supplement today without some posh food critic shoving down your throat

the idea that you need to be eating It used to be a relatively

expensive meat. We used to eat less

than a kilo per annum. Today each person eats

about 23 kilos of chicken. The mass production of chicken

was begun after the Second World War to move away from rationing

and provide enough sustenance Today about 93% of the chicken

we buy is produced in the UK The thing about food snobs,

their concern about chicken welfare is based on the idea that chickens

somehow suffer in the conditions they are kept, and if we all ate

free range organic chicken The problem is, if we move to free

range organic chicken, that means the price

of our average Sunday chicken That means the cost of our

supermarket averages for lunch will increase in price

and the late-night fried chicken you get on the way home,

that will also increase in price. I can't see any benefit

in making people's day-to-day Surely it is about time

we celebrated the fact that today we spend less of our disposable

income on sustaining ourselves When it comes to the food we eat

and the choices we make, as individuals and for our families,

we should be left alone to make those choices guilt-free, not worry

about the chickens and pigs. And celebrate, finally,

the freedom that mass food Justine joins us now. Are you

concerned in any way about the animals we consume for food? You

must know as we all do, some chickens and pigs are kept in

terrible conditions? Farming, butchery, slaughterhouses are very

fiscal things, not pleasant. To some extent I would support moves for

better welfare for our food production. But to be entirely

honest, no. It doesn't occur to me how a chicken is kept when I buy my

chicken sandwich, or how a pig is kept when I buy a bacon sandwich. It

is is not my primary concern. You made a claim in the film that the

price would treble. Can you stand that question why do you have

evidence the price would go up that much for a chicken, for example, if

we didn't intensively farmed? At the moment if you buy a free range

organic chicken is around ?12 -?30. I can get a standard grade a for

about ?4, even worse than that. I am pretty confident that is right.

Isn't that the problem, the price would go up dramatically? I think

the problem with what Justine is saying, she is juxtaposing the cheap

end of the range with the organic, which is very expensive. There is

quite a spectrum within that. You have things like the red tractor

welfare standards and Freedom food, better animal welfare standards than

the very cheap end. But not as pricey. I take there is a broad

spectrum, but do you agree the price would go up if we didn't intensively

farmed chickens and pigs? I was at a chicken farm on Thursday. We turned

up just after the chickens went to slaughter so I didn't see any

chickens. Bad timing. 110,000 chickens had been sent off to

slaughter that morning on a 29 day cycle, that is how long it takes to

get the chicken up to market weight. That was higher welfare standards,

red tractor. The former was making 2p per chicken. That is why they

have to do it on such huge lovers. They said they were not getting much

from the supermarket, they were selling it to one of the

intermediaries. Although they wanted to abide by higher welfare

standards, is not reflected in the price they get. My concern is about

farmers. It is one thing to say you can keep across town for consumers.

Supermarkets are generally doing very well, but we're getting farmers

cannot make a living with dairy, pics, on a whole range... These

people I visited on Thursday had been potato farmers. Can't make a

living with potatoes now. Philosophically do we need to eat as

much meat? We didn't use do? It is a fairly modern phenomenal. It isn't

really necessary so we could reduce the levels of those sorts of animals

found in those ways by eating less meat. We could, we could all become

vegans. There is a difference between the two. Whether we need to

is not the issue of us that we are able to. I think it is impossible to

turn the clock back and eat less meat. Most of us now have a

nutritious, healthy diet if we choose to. Is it healthy, industrial

meat production? Why not? What is wrong with a grade a chicken instead

of an organic chicken. You may care about the chicken, I don't, just the

meat I meeting. I would query the wider point. We see a crisis of

childhood abuse that he, diabetes, the old Jamie Oliver campaign. I

would question if most of us are having healthy diets. That goes

beyond if people eat meat or not. Sorry to rush you, but thank you.

Now, you're a Eurosceptic Conservative MP or minister,

you're not sure which way you'll swing come the referendum,

and anyway, the Prime Minister's told you you're not to speak out

until his renegotiation is a done deal.

So what do you say when an impertinent interviewer like me

asks you to jump the gun and speak your mind?

First here's how some his colleagues have handled it.

Why are you up so early this morning?

Have you decided which side you're on?

I think the position is, I'm sorry to disappoint you,

but the position is very much the same as it was yesterday

I'm not going to put a position down on this,

I say to this, Andrew, I'm in the business,

Minister, of delivering what the Prime Minister

Am not going to get involved in those negotiations,

What really disappoints me, is that people like

you would rather look after your own interests,

than actually come out and lose your cabinet position

I'm not sure the reporting is entirely

It's not the issue I will be deciding on.

What I decide on, is it better for the country economically...

Is anything that you do think is very

Straight talking here, if you don't get free movement

and therefore the open door remains open door,

would you be in favour of leaving the EU,

rather than carrying on with this situation?

Well, my intention is to ensure, first of all, we are elected...

It's a very straight forward question, can you not answer it?

When this whole thing is agreed and try and see what it really

Well that is how some have done. How are you going to answer the

question? That would depend on the outcome... No, no! This is about

collective response politicos but what David Cameron has done is

exceptionally, has lifted collective responsibility. He is negotiating

with the European Union for a better relationship... He is campaigning to

stay, look at all these statements he made this week. About camps

moving from France to Kent and security under threat. This is all

part of the negotiations. Will you let us know first? Absolutely. We

will settle for that. There's just time to put you out

of your misery and give Please, press that buzzer! Well

done. We will put you in touch with health and safety after the

programme. The 1pm news is starting

over on BBC One now. Jo and I will be here at noon

tomorrow with all the big political I've always been quite

anti assisted dying. How he dies is so important

for our children,