10/02/2016 Daily Politics


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Morning folks and welcome to the Daily Politics.


Junior doctors in England walkout in a second 24 hour strike over


changes to their contracts, providing only emergency care.


Is there any end in sight to the doctors' dispute?


Is there a level playing field in British politics?


The Government says it wants to cut the cost of politics and make it


fairer - but are they changing the rules for home advantage?


It's plentiful, it's cheap, it's tasty.


But can a vegan be persuaded of the virtues of


Why a simple question is so difficult for Eurosceptic


Let's wait and see, when this whole thing is agreed,


and try and see what it really means.


All that in the next 90 minutes, and with us for the duration today


Shadow Environment Secretary, Kerry McCarthy,


Last night Nick was engaged in a Twitter spat with pop singer


Lily Allen over Pythagoras's theorem, with Nick asserting


the importance of the theory in getting on in life.


So you'll know that the Pythagorean equation is, Nick?


These square of the high path use is equal to the square on the other


side. Should I have taken the Nicky Morgan offence? -- defence. No, that


is pretty good. Now - junior doctors in England have


begun a second 24 hour strike over changes the Government wants


to make to their contracts. In return for an increase


in their basic pay, ministers want to reduce extra payments made


to junior doctors for working But the doctors' union,


the British Medical Association, says that overall the changes


will still leave their members worse off and -


they say - endanger patient safety. We're joined now from Milton Keynes


by Dr David Rouse who is the Deputy Chairman of the BMA's


Junior Doctors' Committee. One of the main areas of


disagreement is whether Saturday should be classified as a normal


working day. Why is it not a normal working day? I think it is because


of our members, they say so, they have family commitments and caring


commitments, and they extend well into the weekend and anti-social


hours, and our membership are telling us that Saturday should be


protected. The Conservatives think Saturday should be a normal day, if


they are to meet their manifesto commitment, to introduce a seven-day


NHS. Do you acknowledge that mandate? The seven-day NHS is


important, but we have to realise that junior doctors are already


providing good quality emergency care seven days a week. But not


equally across-the-board. Emergency care is a very good quality in the


NHS in the UK, Nicky look at elective care, providing that over


seven days, that needs more doctors on the ground that but if you look


at elective care. You cannot expect the care to remain the same, the


junior doctors want a safe, fair contract the patients, to allow them


to provide good quality care at all times and this is what the BMA are


fighting for. If Saturdays were treated differently, to the way they


are now, new still got the 11% basic pay increase, with the junior


doctors drop the strike? -- and you still got. This is not just about we


can pay, we think the contract -- weekend pay, we think the contract


is about other things. We do not believe working at nine o'clock on a


Friday evening is the same as working at two o'clock Tuesday, we


think it will lead to burn out in doctors, this is not just about


weekend working. Even if that was to be maintained, the contract as it


is, it would not be enough for you at this stage? You would want


recruitment drives to heighten the number of doctors and nurses and


radiologists, for example, as well as keeping Saturday sacrosanct for


junior doctors? This is about safety, you are making good points,


this is not just about having junior doctors at the weekend. If this was


to be a seven-day NHS we need other forms of health care professionals


at the weekend, like radiologists and nurses, this all requires money.


Junior doctors are saying the changes being imposed by the


government, we feel are unsafe, fundamentally, and this is why we


are here today on strike, while providing good quality emergency


care for patients, as well. Junior doctors do not do this lightly, they


are here because they are angry and they want to provide safe care for


their patients, not just now, but for generations to come, we want to


protect the NHS and this is why junior doctors are here today. This


is about the NHS as well as junior doctors. The government says it will


impose the new contract, what will you do then? If the government do


that, our members will continue to fight this, we have to do that, but


our door is always open and we want to go back to talks. We want to go


back to fair talks, talks with the threat of imposition are not fair


talks, we want the government to see sense and a compromise with us. We


want it to be safer for doctors and patients and for the NHS. We could


see rolling strikes if they impose it? Further action would be


discussed with the membership, but whatever action we take we will make


sure it is safe for patients, today we are taking emergency care only


action and we have senior doctors providing quality care for patients


right now. This is about providing safe patient care and that is what


we want for the future and this is why we are here, taking strike


action today. Thanks for joining us. Is this a strike about the safety of


care in the NHS or the overtime rate on Saturday? It is about safety and


a seven-day week have service, which we said we wanted in our manifesto.


If you are ill at the weekend you are less likely to be treated as


well as you are in the week. The figures are disputed. There are a


third fewer doctors on the rotor at the weekend, and it would be easier


for the government to not reform this public service, but we have a


commitment and we are doing so. What we are seeing are the vested


interests fighting against these reforms, the same thing we see in


education, we have resistance from the teacher unions and here we have


resistance from the BMA. Was it ever realistic to extend the NHS into a


kind of all singing all dancing seven-day week operation on existing


budgets? Surely you need more money to be able to do on a Sunday what


you would normally do on a Tuesday? There is more money going into the


health service. We have a strong economy and we are able to put more


money into this. But not for this. That is what the negotiations are


about, there are no pay cuts for junior doctors. The overall pay


package is not rising. So there's no more money going in. We expect


doctors to be on call and to be available seven days a week, that is


the purpose of why would you not pay them over time? You intend to bake


-- pay them the same weekly rate. They will be extirpate beyond five


o'clock and extirpated Sundays. -- extirpate beyond five o'clock and


extra pay on Sundays. There are many people who work at weekends. And


they get overtime. Why were they not get overtime for a Saturday? It may


not be a big rate, but surely recognise that Saturday is


different. You want more of them to work on a Saturday and therefore


they should be paid more than the basic rate? This is all part of the


negotiations, this includes an 11% raise in the basic package for


junior doctors. David Dalton has said that they were very close to an


agreement, very close them so the idea that they are going on strike


and threatening more strikes, that is irresponsible, and that is not


how we should be handling these important discussions, about how we


have a safer health service with doctors spending a few hours --


spending a few hours on the walls. This is what we are determined to


achieve because that is why we set out in our manifesto and this is not


the way that any union should be handling these negotiations. You


would not want to start from here, but what would you do to end the


strike? Would you offer them Saturday as overtime? The important


thing is not for politicians to negotiate, it is for people to get


around the BMA and listen to what the doctors are saying. There was a


deal which was almost reached, but Jeremy Hunt vetoed it. We don't know


that. No, but we've heard that Jeremy Hunt is seen as the obstacle


to them reaching a deal. The important thing is to listen to what


junior doctors are saying, I spent the day before Christmas shadowing


junior doctors in my local hospital and these are people who are


dedicated to the work they do and they are already working much longer


hours than they are being paid for, because they don't just walk away


from the job at five o'clock and down tools. Should they be paid in


overtime rate on Saturday? That is unsocial hours, and I think, yes,


that is something they should be common sated for. If they did that,


that would end the dispute? -- compensated. That is part of it,


there is something about the extra payment starting at midday on


Saturday, but most junior doctors will work one weekend in three at


the moment anyway, it is not that they don't want to take part in the


seven-day week NHS, but they want people to recognise how


overstretched and undivided they are. Junior doctors can be quite


senior, they can have worked in the health service for long time, and


they don't feel valued. Isn't that the point? Junior doctors already


stretched in the way, and your plan, without adding to their numbers, is


to spread them more evenly over seven days, to provide for cover at


the weekend? By definition they become even more stretched in the


week. The part that the negotiations is to have a lower limit on the


number of hours overtime worked, so we increase safety for those


doctors, that is one of the issues, that is part of the dispute. The


extra hours they were working, they were generating income, and that has


been part of the dispute. They say they are already stretched on


Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and now you say they will not have to work


as many hours, but they will be working more hours at the weekend to


give us the seven-day week service, but this surely means they will be


even more stretched if you are not adding more doctors and you are


going to spread the same number out over seven days question not that is


logical. -- out over seven days? We have employed more doctors, 5000


more cover since we came to office in 2010, -- 5000 more, since became


to office in 2010. Animal junior doctors have you added? This will


depend, the funding is therefore the health service, we have increased


the number of doctors and nurses since 2010, and you have got to have


the wealth to generate that. I understand that. You can't promise


that, unless you have the funds to deliver that. But we have a strong


economy and we can do that. 90% have said they will walk away if the


contract is imposed on them. Is there a chance they can impose it on


them? Yes, they have said that. When that be the mother of all fights?


This is no way to conduct negotiations, trade union should not


be doing this with a professional body, negotiating in this way, it is


a very irresponsible thing, 3000 apartments have had to be cancelled


and that is no way to handle it. -- 3000 operations. They are bobbins


with the morale, and also in teaching, you have seen the report


-- there are problems with the morale, and also in teaching, you


have seen that report? The report says, despite the challenge of a


strong economy. Some would say it is a crisis. Despite those challenges


of a very tight and increasingly competitive graduate recruitment


market, there are more teachers now in teaching than ever before and the


pupil teacher ratio has remained stable and more people are coming


into teaching than are leaving. The other statistics, the number of


vacancies has increased by a third, indicators suggest that teacher


shortages are growing between 2011 and 2014, the recorded rate of


vacancies more than doubled from 0.5% of the teaching workforce to


1.2% and and is increasing. The number of teachers leaving the


profession has gone up by 11% over three years. You say this as a


challenge. This is a crisis. It is quite rare for them to use such


strong words. They say they can't approve this because of the


statistics I've just read out. 3000 more teachers the year leaving.


Going in the wrong direction. It is a consequence of a very strong


economy. We are addressing all these challenges by having very generous


new bursaries to encourage more physics, maths and English... They


are saying there are problems there, across all secondary subject,


particularly 14 out of 17 had unfulfilled training places and this


is getting worse at secondary level, compared with just two subjects five


years ago. All the statistics about the wrong way, whatever the


challenges. I say to you it is because of a freeze on public sector


pay. We have the highest number of teachers in our history in our


classrooms today. More people coming into teaching. Why have you got more


vacancies, more people leaving? Because of the challenge of a strong


economy. There are lots of opportunities for physics graduates,


maths graduates and foreign-language graduates... It is not an attractive


prospect because of pay freeze. That is not true. There are increasing


numbers of return is coming. But it is a challenge of a strong economy


and we are addressing that challenged by having generous


bursaries. We have expanded charities like teach first. We want


everybody to be helping us to encourage people to come into


teaching, spreading and Megan negative message. They also point


out that despite all those challenges, more people coming into


teaching than leaving for some there are challenges, a very strong


economy, something we wouldn't have if we had a Labour government. But


we are taking measures to attract more top graduates to come into


teaching. This year's figures show 2000 more undergraduates coming into


teaching than last year. OK, thank you.


Now - the General Secretary of the TUC will deliver a petition


today signed by 200,000 people in opposition


to the Government's Trade Union Bill - a bill that's being debated


in the Lords this afternoon, where it's facing considerable opposition.


It's amongst a number of controversial measures


the Government is taking to change the way politics is in Britain


It's a rough old game politics, and the Government


One big reform is the way unions fund the Labour party.


At the moment, union members are given the option


to opt out of paying into their political fund.


The Government believes this is unfair and instead argues union


What's more, George Osborne has also announced


short money, which is given to all political parties to allow


them to carry out their parliamentary work, will be


Labour are crying foul and claim the moves could cost them up to


It's not only Labour who are taking a mauling,


the charity sector is angry over proposals which would mean


charities would no longer be able spend central government grants


The Government argues taxpayers money should only be spent


on helping people, however National Council


for Voluntary Organisations call it an 'insane policy'.


It's not just about money, the Government has reformed voter


Now everyone must register individually, instead


of by household, and Labour argue the changes


are happening too quickly and many people will slip


Thank you Jo Co. Two big weaknesses of our party funding system is


Labour's overdependence on the unions and your overdependence on


rich headphones, people in private equity and Russian oligarchs. Why


have you only decided to deal with the union side and not with your own


way of funding? Each of those issues are right in their own right. It is


important that you don't just have your money taken from your salary to


pay into a party, party coffers, but you have to actively opt in. If you


say you have to opt out of an insurance policy when you buy a


television set, there would be uproar. The same principle applies


to joining a trade union. You should have to opt in to pay the levy, not


actively opt out. It has been the policy of every previous


Conservative government since the 1920s to allow an opt out rather


than an opt in, what has changed? It is wrong in principle. The Winston


Churchill government, the Thatcher government were wrong in principle?


In those past governments you mentioned the closed shop was


lawful. Mrs Thatcher abolished the closed shop but did not abolish the


opt out procedure. She should have done and Winston Churchill should


have got rid of the closed shop. Supposing you are right, why would


you also not deal with the fact that unregulated hedge funds managers,


unregulated private equity, people who don't reside here very much,


like Russian oligarchs, can donate unlimited sums of money to the


Conservatives? Unlimited. They can give unlimited sums to other


political parties, the Liberal party and the Labour Party, and they do.


Should there not be a limit? There is a limit. Anything over ?5,000 has


to be declared. In a free society you have to allow people use their


money to make a political case, so long as it is transparent and


declared. We try to have party discussions in the last Parliament,


to try and resolve this party funding overall and it collapsed.


The alternative is to have taxpayer funded party funding and that is not


something the public wants. Most trade union members do not vote


Labour. So why shouldn't there be the principle that if you join a


trade union, you are then asked do you also want to contribute to the


Labour Party? And if you do you tick a box, rather than being


automatically taken, without you getting the chance? It is


contributing to the trade unions political fund, which they would use


to make donations to the Labour Party and also to campaign on a


range of issues. We had the Collins review named after our previous


General Secretary that was looking at issues like that. We were looking


at moving perhaps, reforms to how the party is funded by the unions.


What the Government is doing now, as you said in your opening question,


this is entirely one-sided. This is an attack on the trade unions and


relationship with Labour. We are also seeing an attack on the way


charities are engaged. I take your point of view. What I'm asking you


about the principle, even if it is one-sided, it could be wrong they


are not trying to clear up both sides, that was the implication


behind my question. But what is wrong with the principle, given that


most trade union members are not Labour voters, that if they want


their fees, a chunk of their fees to go to the Labour Party, that that


should be an explicit act, rather than something that has happened?


With the Collins review we were looking up at bringing that in over


a number of years. So you do concede in principle? I think in principle


that is something we are ready to look at. But what this government is


doing with the Bill now, it would be a three-month here. The legislation


comes in. Not long. The huge logistical effort. There is also


something about not allowing electrical ballots being done


online, so the sheer cost of the trade unions of operating this. We


have just seen Bernie Sanders win an amazing victory in New Hampshire,


2-1 over Hillary Clinton and she runs the biggest political machine


in America and there is a lot of money in the Clinton machine. Bernie


Sanders managed 3 million individual donations, not big money most of it,


I heard him last night, at about 2:30am, most donations under $100.


Why can't you, Labour and Conservative do that in this


country? I think that is something Labour wanted to move toward. There


is nothing stopping you. We now have more than 370,000 members, double


what they were in the general election. ?3 to join. We do want to


move away from the big donations dominating politics, but it is far


more of an issue, the Conservatives have their black and white for ball


where you had people paying huge amounts of money. This year it


wasn't so much, but I take point! You have some people who sometimes


don't even have much of a connection to politics in the UK paying a lot


of money. We are not able to do that in the Labour Party. We are funded


by ordinary people, through trade unions or Alan mentioned. We have


what many people regarded, not necessarily against what you do in


the unions, but see it as one-sided. Hitting Labour sources rather than


doing anything about your own. You are now putting tougher rules in the


charities and what they can do with money. Changing voter registration.


That may be right or wrong but certainly more of a help to you than


to Labour. You add it all up and it kind of looks like the arrogance of


power. Each of those issues is writing its own right. We had the


problems in Tower Hamlets, the election courts were condemning the


use of ghost voters. We are tackling those voters. These changes to your


advantage. What we want is an electoral register that has


integrity. We had this system in Northern Ireland since 2002 and it


has worked perfectly well. In terms of charities lobbying, when people


give money to charities or charities use public money that we pay to


provide services we don't expect that money to be used for political


lobbying. Charities are not there just to provide services, they are


there if they feel the law is penalising people, that they are


there to help. I think is right for them to lobby those issues. The


attack on charities in some ways is even more important. We want that


money spent on vulnerable people and the services they are meant to be


providing. We will have two comeback because we're up against PMQs.


Every week we give you the chance to get hold of a coveted


All that we ask is that you carefully watch a finely crafted


piece of film containing music and archive from a particular year


and then guess which year they're from.


But - rather than relying on your own knowledge -


some of you, we suspect, are using the internet.


Or the World Wide Web as Gordon Brown used to call it.


Now - this may help you get hold of a mug -


but as our guest of the day, Schools' Minister, Nick Gibb,


has said - and I quote here - "It is mistaken to believe you can


outsource your memory to Google and still expect to think well",


You should speak to the researchers on this programme!


And now - with or without the assistance of Google -


other search engines are available - can you tell us when this happened?


# Oh, oh, oh, you're never coming back.#


Your party's long history of anti-Semitism...


Why don't you apologise, you gutless coward?!


# Poppin bottles in the ice, like a blizzard


# When we drink we do it right gettin slizzard


# Sippin sizzurp in my ride,


Good to see people enjoying themselves.


To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug,


send your answer to our special quiz email address -


Entries must arrive by 12.30pm today, and you can see the full


terms and conditions for Guess The Year on our website -


It's coming up to midday here - just take a look at Big Ben -


and that can mean only one thing: Yes, Prime Minister's Questions


And that's not all - Laura Kuenssberg is here.


Welcome. What is buzzing this morning, what is happening, what is


going on? There are huge amounts of attention on junior doctors strikes,


thousands of doctors not going to work today. A big stand-off between


the BMA and Jeremy Hunt, and no sign of a resolution on the horizon. I


think Jeremy Corbyn is going to choose not to talk about that. The


last doctors strike we thought surely he will raise it, he didn't,


he rose something else instead. I think today he may return to one of


his favourite issues, housing. Especially on this policy of paid to


stay council tenants who start to earn better, ?30,000 a year after


start paying market rent and council properties. We know this is an issue


very dear to Jeremy Corbyn's heart, council housing. Do we know it


affects a lot of people? There was a report at the weekend, which is why


I think he might raise it at the PMQ 's. I think it might propel it into


PMQ 's. They couldn't afford the higher rent? Couldn't afford the


market rent because they were earning more but the jump would be


higher than the comparative jump in their salaries. As ever, with


statistics, we know PMQ 's can descend into a war of statistics,


with statistics about the potential impact of policy. It is not that


easy to be precise about what the impact would be. I wouldn't be


surprised if there might not be a rather cheeky question as Jeremy


Corbyn likes to use questions from the public, from Mary Cameron from


oxygen. Just briefly, explain why? -- from Oxfordshire. Who likes being


told off by them on? Not least the priming do, publicly. -- not least


the Prime Minister. Mary Cameron has got involved in a campaign to stop


cuts to nursery services. This is a raw nerve for David Cameron not just


because of that issue but his council leader made public a letter


David Cameron wrote to him after complaining about cuts. A big issue


for lots of people around the country, an embarrassing one for


David Cameron. He doesn't go on what something that has been a problem


for the Prime Minister in the last 72 hours. He has taken on Europe. Is


because he's uncomfortable with Europe? There are lots of reporters


morning and conversations with people in the Shadow Cabinet, I am


sure Kerry will have a view on this, about how full throttle Jeremy


Corbyn will be in his support for staying in the European union. I saw


a report this morning that he wasn't planning to take part in any remain


rally. That is something that has been suggested. It was put to me


yesterday. We will come back to that. First, we go


I know the House has been saddened by the death of Harry Harper, after


a great career, an adviser to David Blunkett, he was returned to this


place last May, succeeding David Blunkett himself. He was in this


place a short time and became a popular MP, recognised for his


commitment to his constituents and his beliefs. He continued to carry


out his work, as an MP, throughout his treatment, we offer his wife and


their five children our condolences. This morning I had meetings with


ministerial colleagues and in additional to Mike Judy 's in this


House, I will have further comments to make -- in addition to my duties


in this House. I would like to agree about the sad loss for the member of


Sheffield and Hillsborough, he came to this House with an excellent


record in local government and will be sadly missed. The whole House


send our condolences to his family at this sad time. Housing is the


number one issue in my constituency, queries on a workable local plan,


looking after our green spaces and strongly offering the Conservative


value of the right to buy, would the Prime Minister agree that the help


to buy items, with one being taken out every 30 seconds, is the right


way to promote savings and encourage homeownership? -- ISAs. I agree,


that is why these help to buy ISAs, where we matched the money they put


in, it can ready help, and so what we have seen under this government,


is 40,000 people exercise their right to buy their council House,


now we're extending that to all housing association tenants and we


have seen 130,000 people would help to buy, getting the first flat or


the first House, and there is more to do, mostly building houses, but


helping people with their deposits is vital. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you,


Mr Speaker. I joined the Prime Minister and the member for


Eastleigh in paying tribute to Harry Harper, the Honourable member for


Sheffield and Hillsborough, a former miner who passed away last week,


just a short time ago Harry used his glass question here to ask the Prime


Minister questions about the Sheffield Masters and the steel


industry -- his last question. I hope the primers to reflects on his


-- hope the Prime Minister reflects on his diligence regarding that part


of his committee. I said to his wife, how would they like to


remember Harry? She said, we have admired the bravery and carriage he


showed in his life, which was formed in June the miners strike and which


carried him forward for the rest of his life -- which was formed jeering


the miners strike. People will remember him as a decent man, and we


are very sad at his passing. Mr Speaker, also following the member


for Eastleigh, I have a question on housing. I have an e-mail from


Rosie, cheese in her 20s. -- she is in her 20s. CHEERING


LAUGHTER Unfortunately, the Rosie who has


written to me does not have the same good housing that the Chief Whip of


our party does. But aspiration springs eternal. The Rosie who has


written to me, cheese in 20s and she says, " -- she is in her 20s and she


says, "I worked very hard at my job and I'm still having to live at home


with my parents, the lack of housing options are forcing her to consider


moving, she says. She asks the Prime Minister, what action it he is going


to take to help young people and families suffering from on realistic


healths prizes and uncapped rents to get somewhere safe and secure to


live? -- House prices. When you get a letter from the Chief Whip, that


normally spells trouble, I should say. What I would say to Rosie, we


want to do everything we can to help young people get on the housing


ladder, that is why we have these help to save ISAs and I hope she is


looking at that, we are cutting taxes and she will be able to earn


?11,000 before she starts paying any taxes. If Rosie is a tenant in a


housing association home, she can buy that home because we are


introducing and extending the right to buy, and with help to bite she


will have the opportunity to register for help to buy which gives


people the chance to have a small deposit, but still a chance of


owning their own home. If she wants to be a homeowner, shared ownership


can make a real difference and in some parts of the country you will


need a deposit of just a few thousand pounds to begin the process


of becoming a homeowner, but Ira lies that building more houses, we


have got to deliver for Rosie -- but building more buildings. I'm very


pleased that the Prime Minister would like to help deliver decent


housing, Rosie lives and works in London, as the Prime Minister knows,


London is very expensive. He talks about people getting on the housing


ladder, but the reality is, home ownership has fallen under his


government by 200,000 and it rose by a million and the last Labour


government, and his record is one of actually some years of failure on


housing. He said that council homes sold on the right to buy would be


replaced like the like, can be primers to tell us how that policy


is panning out? -- Gandhi Prime Minister. -- can the Prime Minister.


What happened under Labour, one council home was built for every


hundred and seven seat council homes they sold. That is the record --


170. We have said we will make sure that two homes are built for every


council home in London, that is so, that is because the member for


Richmond insisted on that in an amendment to the housing bill. These


take some years to build, but the money that they will be built, the


money comes back to the Treasury. The Prime Minister should be aware


that just one home has been built for every eight that have been sold


under his government. People are increasingly finding it very devil


called find anywhere to live. The Chancellor's crude cuts in housing


benefit for those in supported housing, they are putting at risk


hundreds of thousands of elderly people, people with mental health


condition, war veterans and women fleeing domestic violence unit


support. Can the Prime Minister tell the House what estimate housing


dividers have made in terms of the impact of this policy on supported


housing? We are going to increase housing supply in the social sector


by an ?8 billion housing budget gym this parliament which will build


400,000 affordable homes. When it comes to our reforms of housing


benefit, yes, we have cut housing benefit, because it was out of


control when we came to government. There were families in London who


were getting ?100,000 of housing benefit per family. Think how many


people, think how many Rosie's were going to work, working hard, just to


provide that housing benefit for one family. We support supported housing


schemes and we will look very carefully to make sure they can work


well in the future, but I make no apology for the fact that in this


parliament we are cutting social rents, so for Rosie, for example,


living in social housing, going out to work but she will have lower rent


under this government. I'm pleased the Prime Minister got onto the


question of supported housing. Housing providers estimate that


nearly half of all supported housing schemes will close, one in four


providers are set to close all of their provision, this is a very


serious crisis. I assume the Prime Minister is not content to people


with mental health conditions with nowhere to live, so can he assure


the House that the warm words he has given on supported housing will be


matched by action and he will stop this cut which will destroy this


supported housing sector? We will continue to support the supported


housing sector and the report that he quotes from, it was an opinion


poll with an extremely leading question, if he actually looks at


what it was he was looking at. The changes that we are making, reducing


social rents by 1%, every year for four years, that is good news for


people who go out to work and work hard and like to pay less rent. That


goes with the lower taxes they will be paying and the more childcare


they will be getting, and the other change we are making which does not


come into force until 2018, is to make sure that we are not paying


housing benefit to social tenants way above what we would pay to


private sector tenants. The simple point is this, and this is where I


think Labour had got to focus, every penny you spend on housing subsidy


is money you can't spend on building houses -- have got to focus. Let's


take this right back to Rosie in the beginning, it she would like a


country where we build homes that she would like a country where she


can buy a home, she would like a country with a strong economy so you


can afford to buy a home, all of those things we are delivering, but


you will not deliver these if you go on subsidising housing, and the


welfare benefit, one day Labour has got to realise that the welfare


benefit has got to be brought under control. -- the welfare system.


Shelter estimates that the measures in the housing bill will lose


180,000 affordable homes over the next four years. The Prime Minister


is overseeing a very damaging housing crisis, it is prising out


people from buying, it is not providing enough social housing,


therefore many people are forced to rely on the private rented sector.


The benches behind him recently voted against an amendment but


forward by my honourable friend or homes to be fit for human


habitation. -- for. Labour invested ?22 billion in government, in


bringing social homes at two decent homes standard, and there are now 11


million people in this country who are private renters. Does the Prime


Minister know how many of those homes do not meet the decent homes


standard? To listen to Labour, when in the last five years, we built for


council houses than they built in 13 years. -- we built more. Where was


he? Where was he when that was going on? 13 years and I hope this record


on housing. What we are doing is an ?8 billion housing budget, that will


provide 400,000 new affordable homes and a target to build a million


homes during this Parliament, getting housing benefit down so we


can spend money on housing and having a strong economy that can


support the housing we need. Mr Speaker, I was asking through you,


the Prime Minister, how many of the 11 million renters are living in


homes that are not going to make the decent homes standard and therefore


are substandard? 1000 of those in the private rented sector do not


meet that standard and shells found six out of ten renters have issues


like damp, mould, leaking roofs and Windows, it is simply not good


enough -- shelter found. Millions are struggling to get the homes they


deserve, more families slipping into temporary accommodation,


homelessness rising, too few homes being built, social housing under


pressure, families forced into low standard, overpriced rented sector,


young people unable to move out of the family home and start their own


lives, when is the Prime Minister going to realise that there is a


housing crisis in Britain, and his government needs to address it now,


so that we do not continue with this dreadful situation in this country.


Homelessness is less than half the peak today than it was under the


last Labour government. There is a simple point here. You can only


invest in new houses, you can only restore existing houses, you can any


build new houses and support people into those houses if you have a


strong economy. We inherited mass unemployment, and economy that


completely collapsed, a banking crisis and now we've got zero


inflation, wages growing, unemployment at 5%, and economy


growing and people able, for the first time, to look to their future


and see they can buy and own a house in our country.


Mr speak your Nadia was a 19-year-old when Daesh came to her


village. They tortured her, raped and made her laid. Nadia's story is


the same as thousands of Yazidi women except thousands are still


held in captivity and Nadia escaped. In fact, Nadia is in the public


gallery today. Will the Minister join me in accepting acknowledging


Nadia's bravery and resilience and the qualities that allowed her to


triumph over Daesh? Will he support Yazidi women? Let me thank my friend


for raising this issue and welcome Nadia, who is here with us today.


Her and their Yazidi community have suffered appallingly at this


murderous, brutal, fascist organisation in Syria and Iraq. We


must do everything we can to defeat Daesh and its ideology. We are


playing a leading role in this global coalition. In terms of Iraq,


where so many Yazidis suffered, Daesh have lost 40% of the territory


controlled. As I said at the time in the debate about Syria, this will


take a long time. Building up Iraqi security forces, working with Syrian


opposition forces, building the capacity of governments in both


countries to drive this organisation out of the Middle East. However long


it takes, we must stick at it. Angus Robertson. We on these benches join


in the condolences in relation to Harry and pass on our condolences at


this sad time to his family for supper by Minister made a vow and


his party signed an agreement that there would be no detriment to


Scotland with new devolution arrangements. Why is the UK Treasury


proposing plans that may be detrimental towards Scotland to the


tune of ?3 billion? First of all, we accept this myth principles of no


detriment. No detriment to Scotland at the time when this transfer is


made. -- the Smith principles. And then no detriment of Scottish


taxpayers, but also to the rest of the United Kingdom taxpayers, who we


have to bear in mind as we take into account this very important


negotiation. I have had good negotiations with the First


Minister, negotiations are underway. I want us to successfully complete


this very important piece of devolution in a fair and reasonable


way and these negotiations should continue. Let me remind the Right


Honourable gentleman, if we had had full fiscal devolution, with oil


revenues having collapsed by 94%, then the right honourable Gentleman


and his party would be weeks away from a financial calamity for


Scotland. Thank you. In the context of referendums, whether in Scotland


or across the UK on EU membership, don't voters have a right to know


that what is promised by the UK Government can be trusted and will


be delivered in full. Will the Prime Minister told the Treasury Time is


running out on delivering of their fiscal framework and they must do a


deal that is fair both to the people of Scotland, and fair to the rest of


the United Kingdom. I can tell him everything that has been committed


to by this government will be delivered. We committed to this huge


act of devolution to Scotland and we delivered it. We committed to the


Scotland Bill and are well on the way to delivering it. All the things


we said we would, including those vital Smith principles. There is an


ongoing negotiations to reach a fair settlement and I would say to the


Scottish First Minister and Finance Minister, they have to recognise


there must be fairness across the rest of the United Kingdom as well.


But with goodwill, I can tell you Mr Speaker, no one is more keen on an


agreement on me. I want the Scottish National party here and in Holyrood


to have to start making decisions, which taxes are you going to raise,


what are you going to do with benefits? I want to get rid of,


frankly, this grievance agenda and let you get on with the governing


agenda and then we can see what you are made of.


The skills shortage in engineering in Wildschut is particularly a


problem. It is threatening and undermining all the work we have


done in job creation and also supporting businesses. It is quite


simply a ticking time bomb. Mr Speaker, may I ask the Prime


Minister, what more can he do to remove the stigma, misunderstanding


and all the problems associated around Stem subjects and careers? I


think my honourable friend is right to raise this. There are special


circumstances in Wiltshire because you have the enormous success of


Dyson, hiring engineers and skilled mathematicians and scientists from


every university in the country and long may that continue. What we will


do is help by training 3 million apprentices in this parliament will


stop we are giving special help teachers of Stem subjects and them


into teaching. I think there was a lot business and industry can do to


help us in this, by going into schools and talking about what these


modern engineering careers are all about. How much the film and people


can get from these careers, to encourage people to change the


culture when it comes to pursuing these careers. Mr Speaker, young


people are afraid of losing their homes. Women denied the pensions


they were expecting an increasingly the needy left exposed without the


social care they need to live a decent life. When will the Prime


Minister address the scandals? What we are doing for pensioners is


putting in place the triple lock so every pensioner knows there can


never be another shameful 75p increase in the pension that we saw


under Labour. They know that every year it will either be wages, prices


or 2.5%. That is why the pension is so much higher than when I became


Prime Minister. Of course we need to make sure there is a fair settlement


for local government as well. We will be hearing more about that


later today. But this ability of local councils to raise special


council tax for social care will help in an area where there is great


pressure. Nigel Adams. The Spitfire was a crucial element


in us winning the Battle of Britain 75 years ago. And keeping our


country free from tyranny. However, there are some who fear that our


independent, nuclear deterrent could be as obsolete as a Spitfire. Good


my right honourable friend the Prime Minister assure the House and the


country this is not the case? It takes quite a talent in the Shadow


Defence Secretary to insult Spitfire pilots and sub Mariner 's all in one


go. Another week, another ludicrous Labour position on defence. The last


word should go to our right honourable member in Bridgend who


tweeted, oh dear, oh dear, oh my God. Need to go to rest in a


darkened room. I'm sure she will find the rest of her party will be


there with her! At today's's select committee the


Business Secretary confirmed the Government won't support the EU


commission in raising tariffs on dumped steel from countries like


China. Why won't the UK Government stand up for UK steel? We have


repeatedly stood up for UK steel, including supporting taking


anti-dumping measures in the EU. But that is not enough. We need to get


behind public procurement for steel and that is what we are doing for


them we need to get behind reducing energy bills for steel and that is


what we're doing, we need to support communities like his own who have


seem job losses, and that is exactly what we're doing. We recognise what


a vital part Britain's industrial case British Steel is that is why we


are backing it. Thank you Mr Speaker. Julian Assange is accused


of rape and is on the run. Despite this, a United Nations panel nobody


has ever heard of, declared last week that he has been arbitrarily


detained and somehow deserving of compensation. Does my right


honourable friend agree with me that this was a nonsensical decision?


That Julian Assange sure turned himself over to the Swedish


prosecutors and if anyone is deserving of compensation, it is the


British taxpayer, who has had to pay ?12 million to police his Ecuadorian


hideout? My right honourable friend is absolutely right. I think this


was a ridiculous decision for you have a man ear with an outstanding


allegation of rape against him. He barricaded himself into the


Ecuadorian Embassy but claims he was arbitrarily detained. The only


person who detained himself was himself. What he should do is come


out of that embassy and face the arrest warrant against him. He is


being asked to stand trial in Sweden, a country with a fair


reputation for justice. He should bring to an end this whole sorry


saga. Mike Weir. Women's aid groups have raised concerns that changes in


social housing benefits may close many refuges. Can the Prime Minister


exempt refuges from this? I said in a to questions from the opposition,


we want to support supported housing projects. There are work in many of


our constituencies and we have seen how important they are. These


changes we are talking about, about housing benefit, don't come into


place until 2018. There is plenty of time to make sure that we support


supported housing projects. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next month Milton


Keynes will host the first-ever National apprenticeship fair. We


have a strong record in expanding apprenticeships. But is there not


still a need for a cultural shift in careers advice, to show the


high-level apprenticeships are equally valid to university places?


I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. The careers advice


we need to give young people is that there is a choice for every school


either, we hope, of either a university place, because have


uncapped unit per university places or apprenticeships and we to explain


if you become an apprentice, that doesn't rule out doing a degree or a


degree level qualification later on, during your apprenticeship. The


option of earning and learning is stronger in Britain today than it


has ever been before. Thank you Mr Speaker. Does the Prime


Minister agree that housing protects human rights of people in the United


Kingdom and deserves full and careful consideration question that


will he give an assurance that his repeal of the Human Rights Act will


not conflict with Scotland? We will very carefully all of these issues.


I would say to the honourable lady and honourable members opposite, the


idea that there were no human rights in Britain before the Human Rights


Act is an absolutely ludicrous notion. This house has been a great


Bastian and defender of human rights, but we will look very


carefully of the timing of any announcements we make. Mr Speaker I


spent most of my working life in children's hospices, rely on


donations from organisations like children in need, you have a long


association with the town of Pudsey. Would my right honourable friend


join me and the people of Pudsey in paying tribute to Sir Terry Wogan,


who did so much to inspire millions of pounds to be donated to these


quarters question what I am very happy to do that. The honourable


member representing his constituency, where Pudsey has such


a connection is right to raise this. I think Terry Wogan was one of the


great icons of this country. Like many people in this house you felt


you grew up with him, listening to him in the radio, in the cart or


watching him present programmes. At many people's favourite was the


Eurovision Song contest, which every year he brought such great humour


too. I think we were all fans and he will be hugely missed and his work


with children in need was particularly special. On Monday I


attended the work and pensions tribunal appeal hearing for my


constituent, a brave and inspiring woman whose dwarfism. Despite being


able to climb staircases except on all fours she was awarded zero


disability points by her assessor can I asked the Prime Minister if he


has if he has attended any tribunal hearings and if so if he found the


process fair dignified and compassion question what I am happy


to look into the Casey races. I have people coming to surgery with


enquiries either about employment and support allowance or about


disability living allowance. I have the experience having had a disabled


son of filling out all the forms myself, and looking forward to the


new system, which I think with the proper medical check, will work out


better. I have listened to these arguments but we have to have a


system of adjudication which is independent of politicians. Growing


up nearby I always knew I was nearly home when I saw the iconic cooling


towers of the power stations on the horizon. On Monday the owners of the


remaining power station announced its likely closure this summer. Well


my right honourable friend asked the Secretary of State to meet with me


and discuss further the Government's support that can be provided to the


150 workers and the provisions that can be made to ensure the site is


redeveloped as quickly as possible? I will certainly arrange for that


meeting to take place. We should thank everyone who has worked at


power stations that come to the end of their lives, for the work they


have done to give us a lecture city, to keep our lights on and our


economy moving. I think she is absolutely right. As coal powered


power stations come to the end of their lives, we must make sure


proper redevelopment takes place so we provide jobs for constituents


like hers. The football supporters Federation is considering calling on


fans to hold mass walk-outs, in order to get their voices heard


about the issue of ticket prices. Will the Prime Minister act, to give


fans a place at the table in club boardrooms, in order that their


voices can be heard when issues such as ticket prices are being


discussed? I will look very carefully at the suggestion the


honourable gentleman makes. I think there is a problem here, where some


teams and some clubs put up prices very rapidly every year, even though


so much of the money for football comes through the sponsorship and


equipment and other sources. I will look very carefully at what he says.


The vital debate and votes on the Trident successes submarine should


have been held in the last parliament but was blocked by the


Liberal Democrats. Given the farm the Prime Minister had a few moments


and go at the Labour Party 's expense over Trident's success, it


must be tempting for him to put off the vote until the conference in


October for, I urge him to do the statesman-like thing and hold that


vote as soon as is of, because everyone is ready for it and


everyone is expecting it. What we should do is have the vote when we


need to have the vote, and that is exactly what we will do. No one


should be in any doubt that this government is going to press ahead


with all the decisions that are necessary to replace in full hour


Trident is a Marines. I think the Labour Party should listen to Lord


Hutton, who was their Defence Secretary for many years. He said,


if Labour wants to retain any credibility on defence whatsoever it


better recognise the abject futility of what its leadership is currently


proposing. I hope when that vote comes we will have support from


right across this House of Commons. In light of today's's damning


National Audit Office report on teacher shortages, will the Prime


Minister take urgent steps to help schools such as those in my


constituency to recruit and retain the best teachers, including


extending the London weighting to Harrow schools and other suburban


schools question what we will look carefully at this report. There are


13,100 more teachers in my schools than when I became per minister. Our


teachers are better qualified than ever before. People are shouting out


about increased pupil numbers but they might be interested to know we


have 40 7000 fewer tuple is in overcrowded schools because we put


investment in where it was needed. But we do need schemes like teach


first, like our national leadership programme, that are getting some of


the best teachers into the schools where they are most needed. My right


honourable friend the Prime Minister deserves great credit for the


results of the Syria replenishment conference, which was held under his


leadership in London. He will be aware this can only address the


symptoms of the catastrophe and not the causes. What can he tell the


House the government can do to make sure it reaches a speedy success


question mark can I thank my right honourable friend. It gives me the


opportunity to thank my co-hosts the Norwegians, the Germans and whether


Kuwait is on the Secretary General of the United Nations. We raised in


one day more money than has ever been raised that one of these


conferences ever in their history, over $10 billion. I want to pay


tribute to my right honourable friend, the secretary of state is a


defeat he did a lot of work. It will help close and feed people and give


them the medicine they need. We need a political solution and go on


working with all our political partners to deliver this. It


requires all countries, including Russia, to recognise the need for a


moderate Sunni opposition to be at the table, to create a transitional


authority in Syria. Without that, I feel we will end up with a situation


where you have Assad in one corner and Daesh in the other. The worst


outcome in terms of terrorism, refugees and the outcome of Syria. I


am sure the Prime Minister is looking forward to visiting Hull


next year. As the UK's city of culture we are backed by many


prestigious organisations like the BBC and RAC, but we can do much


better, to make this a real national celebration of culture. Will the


Prime Minister join with me in urging the many London based


National arts organisations to actually do their bit and contribute


to the success? I think the honourable lady makes a very


important point, which is our national cultural institutions have


immense amount of works and prestige that they can bring out to regional


Galleries and regional centres when there is a city -- culture event. I


will enjoy visiting Hull Foster I know my right honourable friend will


want to join me in the city of Hull. It is a city of poets, home to


Philip Larkin for many years, and of course, Stevie Smith. Sometimes one


might want to contemplate what it's like waving and not drowning. The


election for the chair of the environmental audit committee is now


taking place in committee room 16. Voting will continue until 1:30pm.


Also voting on a deferred division is taking place in the no lobby.


This will continue until 2pm. We wanted to stay with that


announcement. It is not mean much to me X -- it did not mean much to me!


As Laura said, Jeremy Corbyn went on housing, erased a number of issues


through his six questions -- he raised. They were all about housing.


The Prime Minister reeled off a list of things which the government had


done or was about to do regarding housing and we will discuss a number


of things. First, what did the viewers make of it? It was all about


housing and the viewers responded, but people feel that Jeremy Corbyn


needs to be tougher with the Prime Minister. One person said, is he the


opposition housing minister? He needs to ask questions on other


subjects. Another one says, why does Jeremy Corbyn continue to let David


Cameron off the hook? Robert says, well done, Jeremy Corbyn, a bit of


venom for a change, but another one says that his methodical approach


does not work at PMQs, and for most people it is the only time they see


Parliament at play and they see the priming is the easily swatting away


Jeremy Corbyn's questions -- the Prime Minister. Helen says, poor


Rosie, she chose the wrong champion in Jeremy Corbyn, his argument was


wiped out by the Prime Minister. Another one says David Cameron needs


to have a walk around the West End of London, and that he has never


seen as many people sleeping on the streets. The biggest domestic story


of the day, the doctors strike, we did not have one question on that,


and then the incredible developing humanitarian crisis north of Aleppo,


at the Turkish border, up to 70,000 refugees are heading that way, the


combined forces of Assad and Hezbollah and Mr Putin, destroying


the moderate factions in Syria, the insularity of the House of Commons


sometimes beggars belief, I would say. If we go back ten days, you


found British politician sounding cautious about the peace process,


getting off the ground in Geneva, and the Foreign Secretary has been


very involved in the shuttle diplomacy. Not so long ago we spent


hours in the studio talking about whether the government would get


enough votes to back expanding air strikes into Syria, that was a big


issue. Just about 10-12 weeks ago, but here, the crisis has gone


through into a completely... Not a new phase, but a very different


phase. And yet, nothing in the House of Commons. And yet, the Russian


ambassador was on Newsnight. No, Channel 4. OK, we are allowed to


mention Channel 4 News, other news programmes are available! They have


had some good stories this week, though. We have the situation with


the Ross and ambassador, we took this vote to bomb Islamic State in


that part of Syria -- the Russian ambassador. But the Assad forces


backed by the Russians, they are mopping up the non-Islamic State


forces, and so we could end up in a position where Vladimir Putin could


say it is him and Assad against Islamic State, whose side are you


on? It looks like it could pan out that way, no one could have been


moved by the terrible pictures coming from the Turkish Syria


border, where people have been fleeing. People turning up at the


Turkish border. Turkey has had an open door policy, but they have


closed the border and no one is getting through, apart from the most


sick and vulnerable. This is very complex, geopolitical discussion, it


is a difficult thing for backbenchers to raise in small


bite-size questions, shall we say, but the biggest bait which is


happening at the moment over Europe in this country, the top issue is


about immigration -- the biggest bait. That is directly affected by


the refugee situation which is unfolding in Syria at a rate of


knots. As you suggest, one senior politician here, said to me, we are


tearing our hair out and they think the British government should be


talking much more about this issue. But right now, it does not seem to


be a case of the wheel at the top. The European Union urged Turkey to


close its southern border with Syria to stop them getting in. Now that


there is a humanitarian crisis on that border, the European Union is


urging Turkey to open the border. Make up your mind! It is difficult


to look at what has happened with the European Union and the difficult


attitudes towards migration, but you can conclude there is very much


going on apart from a chaotic approach which is not helping. And


talk about transit camps, being built, at the moment. Yes, and


earlier, the Prime Minister suggested that as part of our


debate, about migration, the prospect of having camps in Calais,


suddenly arriving on the coast of Kent. And this is an issue in the


biggest debate of the year, but not something which is punching its way


into the chamber. It has gone beyond the argument of another million


refugees coming in this year, or migrants, however you want to


classify them. It is quite clear, as the Assad Putin forces mop up,


people are terrified, because they remember what Assad's father was


capable of and what he has been capable of and what Russia are


capable of. I've been watching interviews with these refugees, they


need to get out and there will be a pressure for millions more to get


out of there. It reaches a scale... Some reports that Nato might have to


have warships in the GMC to cope with what will now be a massive


influx, -- the GMC. Ten times as many people have raised the terrible


voyage from Turkey into Greece than in January last year. It makes you


wonder, when you talk to ministers privately, about the timing of the


referendum, there has been the question on the European referendum,


in June, and having it take place then, in part because there is a


fear in the increase of migrants in the summer, but that feels rather


misplaced. This is happening in front of our eyes. Yes. There were


another 35 people killed just 24 hours ago. What about Jordan and


Lebanon? They are now at capacity. Jordan has said they cannot take any


more, because they have huge numbers. It sometimes makes our


arguments as to whether there should be a refugee camp in Calais or in


Kent slightly diminished. There is a humanitarian crisis happening in


many places, in northern Africa, there are thousands of refugees in


that part of the world, as well, and it is important to provide


humanitarian aid, as we have done in the government. Another billion


pounds from us and from others coming up, as well, but as we know


from the secret minutes, or the Turkish president, with Donald Tusk


and Jean-Claude Juncker, he pointed out that you gave 400 billion to


Greece last year. A bailout is a different issue. You can see the


point. Yes, that money does come back eventually. This is ?1 billion


from us, the agreement reached with other European nations about putting


more money into humanitarian aid is important and that is a better way


of deterring this transit across dangerous waters in the


Mediterranean. But whatever we do, it is a daunting prospect. It is one


thing giving assistance, but we hear that they are at breaking point, I


went to Jordan very early in the conflict, to see the camps but since


then it has grown exponentially. It is not enough in itself to just be


focusing efforts on giving aid to people there, it is a far bigger


issue. It is a huge issue. Just one question on that, but at least we


spent some time discussing it. Laura, thanks for joining us. We


will see you next week. No, there is a recess next week, but crucially


next week is the summit in Brussels. At the end of the week. Yes, a week


on Friday, and I will be there, looking ahead to the next day, and


by the end of next week we might have the deal. I will be watching


you from New York. So - it's official -


parliament is going vegan and ending it's 1,000 year old tradition


of printing Britain's laws It's a move driven by financial


rather than ethical concerns - But it chimes with the choice


of large numbers of people to cut animals and the produce of animals


out of their diets - like our guest of the day


Kerry McCarthy here, But what's wrong with consuming


large quantities of cheap, Here's Justine Brian


from the Institute of Ideas It is difficult to read a weekend


supplement today without some posh food critic shoving down your throat


the idea that you need to be eating It used to be a relatively


expensive meat. We used to eat less


than a kilo per annum. Today each person eats


about 23 kilos of chicken. The mass production of chicken


was begun after the Second World War to move away from rationing


and provide enough sustenance Today about 93% of the chicken


we buy is produced in the UK The thing about food snobs,


their concern about chicken welfare is based on the idea that chickens


somehow suffer in the conditions they are kept, and if we all ate


free range organic chicken The problem is, if we move to free


range organic chicken, that means the price


of our average Sunday chicken That means the cost of our


supermarket averages for lunch will increase in price


and the late-night fried chicken you get on the way home,


that will also increase in price. I can't see any benefit


in making people's day-to-day Surely it is about time


we celebrated the fact that today we spend less of our disposable


income on sustaining ourselves When it comes to the food we eat


and the choices we make, as individuals and for our families,


we should be left alone to make those choices guilt-free, not worry


about the chickens and pigs. And celebrate, finally,


the freedom that mass food Justine joins us now. Are you


concerned in any way about the animals we consume for food? You


must know as we all do, some chickens and pigs are kept in


terrible conditions? Farming, butchery, slaughterhouses are very


fiscal things, not pleasant. To some extent I would support moves for


better welfare for our food production. But to be entirely


honest, no. It doesn't occur to me how a chicken is kept when I buy my


chicken sandwich, or how a pig is kept when I buy a bacon sandwich. It


is is not my primary concern. You made a claim in the film that the


price would treble. Can you stand that question why do you have


evidence the price would go up that much for a chicken, for example, if


we didn't intensively farmed? At the moment if you buy a free range


organic chicken is around ?12 -?30. I can get a standard grade a for


about ?4, even worse than that. I am pretty confident that is right.


Isn't that the problem, the price would go up dramatically? I think


the problem with what Justine is saying, she is juxtaposing the cheap


end of the range with the organic, which is very expensive. There is


quite a spectrum within that. You have things like the red tractor


welfare standards and Freedom food, better animal welfare standards than


the very cheap end. But not as pricey. I take there is a broad


spectrum, but do you agree the price would go up if we didn't intensively


farmed chickens and pigs? I was at a chicken farm on Thursday. We turned


up just after the chickens went to slaughter so I didn't see any


chickens. Bad timing. 110,000 chickens had been sent off to


slaughter that morning on a 29 day cycle, that is how long it takes to


get the chicken up to market weight. That was higher welfare standards,


red tractor. The former was making 2p per chicken. That is why they


have to do it on such huge lovers. They said they were not getting much


from the supermarket, they were selling it to one of the


intermediaries. Although they wanted to abide by higher welfare


standards, is not reflected in the price they get. My concern is about


farmers. It is one thing to say you can keep across town for consumers.


Supermarkets are generally doing very well, but we're getting farmers


cannot make a living with dairy, pics, on a whole range... These


people I visited on Thursday had been potato farmers. Can't make a


living with potatoes now. Philosophically do we need to eat as


much meat? We didn't use do? It is a fairly modern phenomenal. It isn't


really necessary so we could reduce the levels of those sorts of animals


found in those ways by eating less meat. We could, we could all become


vegans. There is a difference between the two. Whether we need to


is not the issue of us that we are able to. I think it is impossible to


turn the clock back and eat less meat. Most of us now have a


nutritious, healthy diet if we choose to. Is it healthy, industrial


meat production? Why not? What is wrong with a grade a chicken instead


of an organic chicken. You may care about the chicken, I don't, just the


meat I meeting. I would query the wider point. We see a crisis of


childhood abuse that he, diabetes, the old Jamie Oliver campaign. I


would question if most of us are having healthy diets. That goes


beyond if people eat meat or not. Sorry to rush you, but thank you.


Now, you're a Eurosceptic Conservative MP or minister,


you're not sure which way you'll swing come the referendum,


and anyway, the Prime Minister's told you you're not to speak out


until his renegotiation is a done deal.


So what do you say when an impertinent interviewer like me


asks you to jump the gun and speak your mind?


First here's how some his colleagues have handled it.


Why are you up so early this morning?


Have you decided which side you're on?


I think the position is, I'm sorry to disappoint you,


but the position is very much the same as it was yesterday


I'm not going to put a position down on this,


I say to this, Andrew, I'm in the business,


Minister, of delivering what the Prime Minister


Am not going to get involved in those negotiations,


What really disappoints me, is that people like


you would rather look after your own interests,


than actually come out and lose your cabinet position


I'm not sure the reporting is entirely


It's not the issue I will be deciding on.


What I decide on, is it better for the country economically...


Is anything that you do think is very


Straight talking here, if you don't get free movement


and therefore the open door remains open door,


would you be in favour of leaving the EU,


rather than carrying on with this situation?


Well, my intention is to ensure, first of all, we are elected...


It's a very straight forward question, can you not answer it?


When this whole thing is agreed and try and see what it really


Well that is how some have done. How are you going to answer the


question? That would depend on the outcome... No, no! This is about


collective response politicos but what David Cameron has done is


exceptionally, has lifted collective responsibility. He is negotiating


with the European Union for a better relationship... He is campaigning to


stay, look at all these statements he made this week. About camps


moving from France to Kent and security under threat. This is all


part of the negotiations. Will you let us know first? Absolutely. We


will settle for that. There's just time to put you out


of your misery and give Please, press that buzzer! Well


done. We will put you in touch with health and safety after the


programme. The 1pm news is starting


over on BBC One now. Jo and I will be here at noon


tomorrow with all the big political I've always been quite


anti assisted dying. How he dies is so important


for our children,


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