25/02/2016 Daily Politics


25/02/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn discuss the latest political developments at Westminster with Labour's Chuka Umunna. Can Europe solve its migration crisis?


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efforts. week. Time for me to say goodbye.

:00:00.:00:10.

Explain to us, worry deeply that there might be a

:00:11.:00:21.

day after t`e referendul where conservatives get on

:00:22.:00:25.

day after t`e referendul where on the

:00:26.:00:26.

day after t`e referendul where down with lambs, let me reassure you

:00:27.:00:31.

that the fighting will continue with gusto. Two things are going on at

:00:32.:00:35.

the same time. The Government has changed the way we registered to

:00:36.:00:41.

vote - we don't do it as households, but as individuals. Labour say that

:00:42.:00:48.

it will only be bit posh people who decide to do this. David Cameron has

:00:49.:00:53.

long said that there are too many MPs, so they are being cut. And they

:00:54.:01:01.

are going to redraw boundaries. Stick those two things together and

:01:02.:01:04.

you will see that a lot of MPs will be jostling with each other, not

:01:05.:01:10.

about the fight with the other side at the next general election, but

:01:11.:01:14.

who will get to fight for fewer seats. It is kind of like musical

:01:15.:01:19.

chairs but only with more bitterness and the ability to pay your mortgage

:01:20.:01:25.

at stake. Some Conservatives are fuming about this and they do not

:01:26.:01:30.

give a hoot about David Cameron s assurance that no one will be left

:01:31.:01:37.

behind. In the words of one, we could all go and fight and lose

:01:38.:01:40.

Liverpool waiver tree, but what would that do for us? On the other

:01:41.:01:45.

side, and Chuka may have some thoughts on this, you may well

:01:46.:01:54.

wonder what the rules will be dictating how Labour seats are

:01:55.:01:58.

divided. As the stand, if you have 40% of the new seat in your

:01:59.:02:02.

constituency, in effect, you are treated like an incumbent. One of

:02:03.:02:07.

the ruling committee of the Labour Party to change that ruling, and

:02:08.:02:13.

there is no suggestion it will, that could make MPs much more vulnerable

:02:14.:02:21.

to being ousted, deselected, leaving a rather different looking Labour

:02:22.:02:27.

Party. There you go - plenty of fights in the political parties to

:02:28.:02:30.

come. You sound like you are relishing it.

:02:31.:02:34.

And here with me now is Lord Hayward, an election

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strategist and part of the team advising the Conservatives

:02:38.:02:39.

Let's go back to the electoral register and the commission because

:02:40.:02:49.

they want that tens of thousands of people could miss out on the

:02:50.:02:54.

election and the EU referendum. The commission urged the Government to

:02:55.:02:56.

delay the changes until the end of the year because they were so

:02:57.:02:59.

worried about the numbers who could be missed out. Why has the

:03:00.:03:03.

Government proceeded in rushing this? It was approved by the House

:03:04.:03:07.

of Lords. As you know, we do not have the majority there, so it was a

:03:08.:03:15.

broad basis of approval. We will contact every potential voter nine

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times. All the stories about these people being taken off the register,

:03:22.:03:25.

they are people who are not actually there who died. The bigger issue,

:03:26.:03:31.

and Chuka and I will agree, is getting to register. The level of

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registration amongst younger people at the moment is frightening. It is

:03:36.:03:41.

less an issue of taking people who shouldn't be on the register off,

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it's more a question of getting people who should be on it on. As

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you say, a transient population these numbers look convenient for

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the Conservative Party. Registration is typically lower in Labour areas.

:03:56.:04:01.

It is not a fairer system, based on those numbers. It is completely

:04:02.:04:02.

fair. It was introduced in 2002, those numbers. It is completely

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fair. It was introduced in 2002 and fair. It was introduced in 2002, and

:04:07.:04:09.

it was called the Electoral Fraud Act. The problem with what you were

:04:10.:04:18.

saying: You are right to say there are major issues on under

:04:19.:04:20.

registration of young people. There are also major issues of the

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registration of ethnic minorities, which disproportionately impacts on

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Labour areas, particularly the Borough of Lambeth. The best thing

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to have done would have been to sort out those registrations, and then

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you can look to try make sure you have more equal constituencies. You

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have gone ahead and done this without sorting the under

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registration issues out in my constituency, in my area. The issue

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of under registration is one, sadly, that ran for many years, including

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under your Government. Your Government made efforts to improve

:04:59.:05:04.

it, this Government and the previous Conservative Government have also

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made efforts. Are you saying it is impossible? No. There have been

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improvements in levels of registration. For example, the

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introduction of online registration last year resulted in huge numbers

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of people coming on. Why not resolve those issues first? We are talking

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of something in the order of 3 million people falling off the

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register. Let's look at the numbers. Labour said that 1.9 million names

:05:32.:05:36.

had disappeared from the electoral register, which is significant

:05:37.:05:44.

across Scotland, England and Wales. A smaller number was later given.

:05:45.:05:54.

You said 3 million to start with. 750,000. 700,000 is a huge amount.

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When you look at the electoral system that we have, it is less than

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100,000 voters who actually determine the results in general

:06:06.:06:08.

elections. So if you have over 700,000 people falling off the

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register, that is big. You cannot say it is all down to fraud. Or are

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you saying that there could be that number of people? I am not saying

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that. I am saying there are several different issues. There are people

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who are no longer resident at the registered locations. There is then

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the issue of voter registration. All the issue of voter registration All

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governments have tried to tackle it in one form or another. The most

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successful process has been the introduction of online registration,

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which proved effective in the run-up to the last election. The electorate

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rose in Northern Ireland last year in comparison with the rest of the

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country. Do you deny that any party political consideration played a

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part in your party's determination to press on with doing this boundary

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review and doing it the way it has been done? The review was approved

:07:08.:07:11.

by the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats. So the risen to party

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political consideration? It was approved by Labour and the Lib Dems.

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It was agreed by all parties. I m not sure about that. The timing was

:07:22.:07:27.

approved. Let's get on to the point that Ross Hawkins was relishing. Are

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you worried that this boundary review will be the perfect excuse

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for Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell to get rid of troublemakers like

:07:36.:07:42.

you? I don't see myself as a troublemaker. I am trying to

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increase the vote against ethnic -- amongst ethnic minorities. Jeremy

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has been clear about the prospect of changing the party's trigger

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ballots, where you move from an existing constituency to a new one.

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He said there will be no change. No He said there will be no change No

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change in the way that those rules operate. My hope is that it will not

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be used in that way. Part of the Labour Party's strength is that it

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has a diversity of opinion and it has a Parliamentary party that is in

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June with 9.3 million Labour voters. Thank you. Thank you.

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Today's Guest of the Day is the man who might have been.

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Chuka thought about standing for the Labour leadership,

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and then thought better of it.

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And the man who no-one thought could win -

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Jeremy Corbyn - swept to victory last summer.

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And he is doing a great job - at least according to his own

:08:40.:08:42.

At least that is what a new poll shows.

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Election Data asked YouGov to poll more than 1,200 party members

:08:47.:08:48.

and supporters who are eligible to vote in Labour leadership election.

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YouGov then compared the results with wider polling amongst

:08:52.:08:53.

Nearly three-quarters of the party's wider membership approved

:08:54.:08:58.

of their leader, more than three times the proportion

:08:59.:09:00.

63% of party believe Corbyn should lead Labour into the next general

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Compared with 32% of the wider British public.

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Nearly two-thirds of party members and registered supporters thought

:09:17.:09:18.

-- that Mr Corbyn is likely to make it to number ten. --

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47% of party believe Corbyn is likely to win the next general --

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Compared with 14% of the wider British public.

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Almost half of Labour members and registered supporters think that

:09:47.:09:48.

Mr Corbyn is likely to make it to No 10.

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But less than 1 in 7 of voters shared their optimism.

:09:51.:09:53.

were Jeremy Corbyn to fall under a metaphorical electoral bus

:09:54.:09:55.

Election Data put a number of names to the YouGov sample.

:09:56.:09:59.

The number one choice in the Shadow Chancellor

:10:00.:10:01.

and Chairman Mao connoisseur John McDonnell,

:10:02.:10:03.

followed by shadow foreign secretary Hillary Benn.

:10:04.:10:04.

But a quarter of Labour members and registered supporters said

:10:05.:10:07.

that they wouldn't vote at all if Corbyn was not

:10:08.:10:09.

And with me now, Joe Twynam from YouGov.

:10:10.:10:12.

it's an interesting poll. But in a sense, it tells us what we already

:10:13.:10:18.

know, which is that the new influx of members into the Labour Party are

:10:19.:10:22.

Jeremy Corbyn supporters. The more you support Jeremy Corbyn, the more

:10:23.:10:31.

you support his policies. If you are a fan of Jeremy Corbyn, and you

:10:32.:10:35.

generally approve of a lot of his policies, perhaps with the exception

:10:36.:10:39.

of membership of the EU, and if he is representing them, he is doing a

:10:40.:10:44.

good job. Given the changing nature of the Labour Party membership, even

:10:45.:10:51.

Jeremy Corbyn was to depart from the leadership, their choice would be

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the other most left-wing member of the Shadow Cabinet, John Mick

:10:55.:11:01.

Donnell. That's right. Amongst the Corbyn supporters particularly, but

:11:02.:11:09.

the party membership more generally, which... That is something the party

:11:10.:11:13.

has to address if it is to win an election. It depends on whether this

:11:14.:11:19.

group of people supporting Mr Corbyn actually believe that winning an

:11:20.:11:22.

election is the most important thing, or is it more about sending a

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message about the type of society they want to see and their position

:11:27.:11:30.

on specific policies? In some cases, they do seem more concerned about

:11:31.:11:36.

being "Right" in their terms than in taking power. Some of the new

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membership have come from the's greens and Lib Dems. -- come from

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the Greens and Lib Dems. Jeremy Corbyn won amongst all

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groups, it doesn't matter whether that was old Labour supporters, new

:11:58.:12:03.

members, ?3 sign-ups. It is this that gives him the mandate to then

:12:04.:12:09.

carry out his agenda. One thing I thought was fascinating was that

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less than 40% of the current membership were members of the

:12:16.:12:18.

Labour Party when Ed Miliband became leader in 2010. This is a new party.

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In many ways, it is. And in many ways, it is very different from not

:12:26.:12:29.

only the all party but the electorate generally. And that is an

:12:30.:12:33.

issue that they have to face. It does not mean you cannot lead on

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these things. We saw with the vote on Syria, that initially the Labour

:12:39.:12:42.

Party itself, their members, were in favour of action in Syria. But then

:12:43.:12:48.

Jeremy Corbyn began the process of saying he was against it. The new

:12:49.:12:52.

membership then did move more in line with his position. And more in

:12:53.:12:56.

line with the people who had voted for him during the election, so

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there is the potential to change. The general public really didn't

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change its view on Syria. It got to the stage where his -- were Corbyn

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and his supporters were out of step... It is my party, and I am

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surprised that this has generated so much attention. There is nothing new

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in the fact that Labour Party members are seen as being left wing

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to different degrees of history than the general public. How on earth it

:13:30.:13:32.

should be a surprise that people who voted for Jeremy in the leadership

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lecture should think he -- the leadership election should think he

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is doing a job right now. Is it a surprise that so few members were

:13:43.:13:46.

around when Ed Miliband became leader and the influx of the new

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membership is all well to the left of you and of the traditional Labour

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Party? No, but I would say is that there is going to be, I don't like

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the word compromise, but let's use it for now, and that is being led by

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Jeremy, in some respects. His election campaign very much put the

:14:11.:14:13.

Labour getting into power, which is the stated of our party in clause

:14:14.:14:19.

one of our Constitution, is slightly on the back burner. The first major

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speech that he gave to the TUC, he was absolutely clear that in order

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to make Labour values wheel, we have to make it into power. And he's

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absolutely right about that one of the mistakes that the so-called

:14:36.:14:38.

moderate party made was to somehow get the impression that electability

:14:39.:14:43.

was all that mattered, and that the argument -- and to give for policy

:14:44.:14:46.

decisions on that basis. I would argue that you have two place

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equality and prosperity, the kind of society that we want, at the heart

:14:52.:14:55.

of where you're going as a party and that helped you get into power. --

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helps you. It happens a lot on this programme,

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the politicians answer the questions they want to, not the ones we ask!

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There is not a vacancy for the leadership and I do not believe

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there will be for some time. We know that, but when we look at this

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fascinating poll, if they can't have Mr Corbyn, who barely got the number

:15:27.:15:31.

of nominations, they want John McDonnell to has had no part in the

:15:32.:15:34.

official Labour Party for many years. He was always a far left .

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Now, if it is not Mr Corbyn, it is Mr McDonnell. Those are the figures.

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Clear leader. This is a different party and if it carries on like

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this, it is a party which you have no future in. I do not accept that.

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We have always torn strength from the fact that we are a broad church.

:15:56.:15:59.

These things at and flow over history. The electorate think you

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are a left-wing sect! Yes, but that would tend to suggest that somehow

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we are going to be static in terms of our membership. What I hope is

:16:10.:16:12.

that over the years we will recruit even more people than we have

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already. Jeremy wants us to go. . already. Jeremy wants us to go...

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Where is the sign of that? I said over the years. Well, there is no

:16:19.:16:24.

sign of that. I think a lot of people who were previously on the

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periphery of left-wing politics are rather attracted to the Jeremy

:16:30.:16:32.

Corbyn party. They were not attracted to your kind of Labour

:16:33.:16:35.

Party. They are now joining this kind of Labour Party. Is that not

:16:36.:16:39.

what the polling shows? Yes, I would say so. And it is not just the

:16:40.:16:44.

Labour Party which is doing this. We have seen in other countries this

:16:45.:16:49.

idea that adopting a particular anti-establishment position can

:16:50.:16:51.

attract people who are dissatisfied and disapproving of the Westminster

:16:52.:16:57.

mechanism and all that it attracts. Jeremy Corbyn has done a very

:16:58.:17:00.

effective job of attracting those people. And people are joining as a

:17:01.:17:06.

result. They have come from the greens and everything else. And it

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is not the case that he has overwhelmingly won over people who

:17:13.:17:15.

previously were not engaged in politics. These are people who

:17:16.:17:19.

previously were positioned elsewhere in politics. The broader left is now

:17:20.:17:23.

consolidating inside your party, that is what is going on. In some

:17:24.:17:28.

respects it is. It would be disingenuous to deny that. But we

:17:29.:17:32.

have to be a mass movement party which reflects a broad swathe of

:17:33.:17:36.

British public opinion. And I believe that is possible. Because I

:17:37.:17:40.

think in every person, part of them is compassionate and progressive and

:17:41.:17:45.

unafraid of change. Part of all of us is slightly fearful and anxious

:17:46.:17:48.

about change and a bit more conservative with a small sea. Our

:17:49.:17:52.

job is to activate the progressive side of every single person, so that

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our membership is broad. You will have seen this yesterday morning.

:17:57.:18:02.

You are GQ's 29th best dressed man of the year. 29th?! Do you have any

:18:03.:18:08.

sartorial advice for the Labour leader? My constituents do not give

:18:09.:18:15.

a monkey's how he dresses. They care about what he is saying. And Howard

:18:16.:18:20.

-- how it will make a difference to them. Do you care? I do not. We have

:18:21.:18:29.

got a clip of him. You know what he is really jealous of, that I can go

:18:30.:18:34.

shopping in the great shopping centre of the world, Holloway Road,

:18:35.:18:39.

and jars stuck in Bond Street! Have you ever shopped on the Holloway

:18:40.:18:46.

Road? I haven't. You should! Bond Street? I have bought a present for

:18:47.:18:53.

a very special lady in Bond Street! Enough teasing! Thank you for coming

:18:54.:18:58.

in. At the last election,

:18:59.:19:00.

Ukip picked up nearly 4 million votes, and yet only won

:19:01.:19:02.

a single seat in Parliament. It's a quirk of the way

:19:03.:19:05.

the electoral system works In fact, 331 of 650 MPs at the last

:19:06.:19:07.

election were elected on under 0% Critics, including our guest

:19:08.:19:12.

of the day, say it's time to introduce some kind of system

:19:13.:19:17.

of proportional representation. General elections -

:19:18.:19:19.

the opportunity for political parties hungry for power to go

:19:20.:19:28.

for the largest slice of the vote. Imagine this formidable gateaux

:19:29.:19:31.

was the last general election. The Conservatives

:19:32.:19:35.

got 36% of the vote. Ukip got more than 12.5% -

:19:36.:19:44.

or an eighth of votes cast. And then came the likes

:19:45.:19:57.

of the Lib Dems, the SNP, the Greens, as well as some

:19:58.:20:03.

of the other smaller parties, But imagine now, this

:20:04.:20:09.

was the House of Commons, and the Conservatives were able

:20:10.:20:19.

to stuff their faces with well over The Labour Party got,

:20:20.:20:25.

well, about... And then all the other

:20:26.:20:32.

parties are left to fight over this tiny little bit,

:20:33.:20:46.

including Ukip, who, having had a sizeable

:20:47.:20:48.

chunk on this cake, including a cherry, now have

:20:49.:20:53.

only a tiny, little bit. The real reason why we need

:20:54.:21:01.

electoral reform is not to advantage any one party - it is to

:21:02.:21:05.

make sure that there At the moment, seven out of ten MPs

:21:06.:21:09.

in the Commons come from safe seats. That means it does not really

:21:10.:21:16.

matter who you vote for - the big party machines in effect

:21:17.:21:19.

choose who gets to be your MP. We need electoral reform

:21:20.:21:23.

to break open that cartel. 700 years of tradition

:21:24.:21:27.

lie behind this The general view is that

:21:28.:21:30.

the so-called first-past-the-post system is, well,

:21:31.:21:36.

a little bit outdated. It is one of the few things

:21:37.:21:42.

the likes of the Lib Dems, the SNP, Plaid Cymru and some

:21:43.:21:47.

Labour MPs agree on. Last May's general election

:21:48.:21:51.

was the most disproportionate Millions of voters'

:21:52.:21:58.

voices went unheard. We saw 5 million Ukip and

:21:59.:22:05.

moment. We saw 5 million Ukip and

:22:06.:22:15.

of people, they began to feel They are a bit

:22:16.:22:20.

of seats cake. They are a bit

:22:21.:22:29.

a first-past-the-post system but when you have got

:22:30.:22:46.

to change the system, doorctep, people do not talk to me

:22:47.:23:09.

about this. They talk doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:10.:23:26.

credits. It is not an doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:27.:23:29.

especially winds up doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:30.:23:30.

winds up doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:31.:23:36.

3.9 million votes, doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:37.:23:41.

seat. My point was not necessarily doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:42.:23:41.

about whether doorctep, people do not talk to me

:23:42.:23:42.

it down the dog and duck - the day. The only absolutely true

:23:43.:23:50.

and fair system would be the day. The only absolutely true

:23:51.:23:52.

an` fair ryctem vould bd to taje all tha fotes nation`lly, dhvade them up

:23:53.:23:58.

an` fair ryctem vould bd to taje all the vote, you have got 30% of the

:23:59.:24:02.

an` fair ryctem vould bd to taje all MPs. Unfortunately that removes

:24:03.:24:03.

an` fair ryctem vould bd to taje all MPs. Unfoptenately that removes the

:24:04.:24:04.

an` fair ryctem vould bd to taje all connection between the person and

:24:05.:24:06.

the constituency. People are elected the constituency. People are elected

:24:07.:24:12.

think it would be the constituency. People are elected

:24:13.:24:16.

What do you say? T`e Electoral Reform Society says,

:24:17.:24:17.

What do you say? T`e Electoral proportional

:24:18.:24:21.

What do you say? T`e Electoral would have taken fewer seats in

:24:22.:24:21.

What do you say? T`e Electoral 2015.

:24:22.:24:24.

What do you say? T`e Electoral a Democrat and

:24:25.:24:27.

What do you say? T`e Electoral respect

:24:28.:24:33.

What do you say? T`e Electoral things on the

:24:34.:24:38.

introduced which have made our democracy

:24:39.:24:42.

introduced which have made our in Scotland - if

:24:43.:24:44.

introduced which have made our taking those

:24:45.:24:46.

introduced which have made our would be an

:24:47.:24:49.

introduced which have made our system, I am

:24:50.:24:51.

introduced which have made our sustainable.

:24:52.:24:54.

introduced which have made our democracy which

:24:55.:24:56.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by social

:24:57.:24:57.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by think

:24:58.:24:59.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by worried not for

:25:00.:25:01.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by have a

:25:02.:25:04.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by feeds

:25:05.:25:05.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by between what happens

:25:06.:25:07.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by bepween whad happens in Westminster

:25:08.:25:07.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by and other

:25:08.:25:10.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by additional

:25:11.:25:12.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by have in the

:25:13.:25:13.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by which

:25:14.:25:15.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by enough in t`e Scottish Parliamdnt I

:25:16.:25:19.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by do not see why it is not good enough

:25:20.:25:19.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by for

:25:20.:25:26.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by we should not move back in any

:25:27.:25:29.

deiocracy w`ich hs facilitated by parliaments which he mentioned. We

:25:30.:25:33.

should go further. That would acpually

:25:34.:25:36.

should go further. That would have

:25:37.:25:38.

should go further. That would count? In Westminster we

:25:39.:25:43.

should go further. That would things like housing and

:25:44.:25:46.

should go further. That would decisions should be

:25:47.:25:48.

should go further. That would decicions s`ould be takdn at a local

:25:49.:25:48.

should go further. That would level. Let's

:25:49.:25:50.

should go further. That would level. Let'c devnlve powers down

:25:51.:25:50.

should go further. That would that people feel t`ey can

:25:51.:25:52.

should go further. That would that people feel they can have

:25:53.:25:56.

should go further. That would re-engage people in a way that

:25:57.:25:59.

should go further. That would not. You have got

:26:00.:26:00.

should go further. That would nop. You hafe got 20

:26:01.:26:01.

should go further. That would have got to do bnt`. Francly we have

:26:02.:26:04.

the same as have got to do bnt`. Francly we have

:26:05.:26:16.

could imagine, and have got to do bnt`. Francly we have

:26:17.:26:19.

voted against it. But that was a have got to do bnt`. Francly we have

:26:20.:26:20.

small have got to do bnt`. Francly we have

:26:21.:26:25.

harmed and Scissors Sister singer

:26:26.:26:36.

Michael Portillo, David Lammy I was always terrified of her!

:26:37.:26:49.

Get back, get back! Drop the bat... The hit BAFTA award-winning drama

:26:50.:26:55.

'I had a motive.'

:26:56.:27:15.

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