17/03/2016 Daily Politics


17/03/2016

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by economist Stephanie Flanders to discuss George Osborne's Budget. Also included is the latest from the EU Summit in Brussels.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 17/03/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:37.:00:38.

Nearly 24 hours after the Chancellor delivered his budget,

:00:39.:00:40.

and as always the devil's in the detail.

:00:41.:00:44.

Mr Osborne's already under fire over cuts to disability benefits,

:00:45.:00:47.

and the so-called tampon tax, and this morning he's had to reject

:00:48.:00:50.

suggestions that there may have to be more tax rises or spending

:00:51.:00:52.

cuts if he wants to eliminate the deficit by the end of this

:00:53.:00:56.

The Chancellor also announced a sugar tax on fizzy drinks.

:00:57.:01:06.

Our Adam's been out with his bon-bons, to see how well that's

:01:07.:01:08.

What chance EU leaders can stem the flow of migrants from Turkey?

:01:09.:01:20.

They're meeting in Brussels later today.

:01:21.:01:21.

And is this the funniest budget joke ever, ever, ever?

:01:22.:01:31.

Indeed, the former Pensions Minister the Liberal Democrat Steve Webb said

:01:32.:01:34.

"I was trying to abolish the lump sum."

:01:35.:01:36.

Instead, we are going to keep the lump sum and abolish the Liberal

:01:37.:01:39.

All that in the next hour, and with us for the duration,

:01:40.:01:51.

the BBC's former economics editor, now JP Morgan's chief market

:01:52.:01:53.

strategist for Europe, Stephanie Flanders.

:01:54.:01:58.

So at just over 9,000 words, and an hour long, George Osborne

:01:59.:02:03.

delivered his eighth budget yesterday.

:02:04.:02:11.

Against a backdrop of deepening Conservative division over Europe,

:02:12.:02:13.

and a gloomy economic outlook, the Chancellor waged war

:02:14.:02:17.

Sugar addicts may be relieved to hear, loop-holes are aplenty.

:02:18.:02:24.

Jammie-dodgers and donuts escaped the Chancellor's ire.

:02:25.:02:29.

As is traditional the morning after, Mr Osborne gave a round of Breakfast

:02:30.:02:33.

interviews - he probably needed an Irn-Bru to get through it all.

:02:34.:02:36.

In Britain we have a growing economy, we have got unemployment

:02:37.:02:42.

coming down, we saw that again today.

:02:43.:02:43.

And what I'm saying in this Budget is we have got to hold to the course

:02:44.:02:47.

we have set out, we have got to take action now on the public

:02:48.:02:51.

finances so we are stable and secure and don't pay later and we have got

:02:52.:02:54.

to back small businesses, the self-employed, working people,

:02:55.:02:56.

by cutting their taxes and helping our

:02:57.:02:58.

We set out the plan to do that in the Budget.

:02:59.:03:10.

When you stand back from all the details, does this budget change the

:03:11.:03:17.

macroeconomic course of this economy? Well it changes the

:03:18.:03:20.

forecast but that is the forecast that he was dealing with from the

:03:21.:03:25.

Office for Budget Responsibility, the backdrop was that the office for

:03:26.:03:30.

national statistic, the cash value of the economy was smaller than

:03:31.:03:36.

think thought, about a month after the Autumn Statement, they decided

:03:37.:03:40.

that, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has decided to be

:03:41.:03:44.

gloomier about our long-term growth prospects and particularly

:03:45.:03:47.

productivity, a growth in out put per head. So he was keel dealing

:03:48.:03:52.

with lower revenue forecast over ?50 billion extra black hole in the

:03:53.:03:57.

public finances. But, and he is partly responded to that, but also

:03:58.:04:03.

used some smoke and mirrors to still beat that, have that surplus at the

:04:04.:04:07.

end of the Parliament. I thought it was kind of impressive with the

:04:08.:04:11.

straight face he can still talk about the long-term plan and holding

:04:12.:04:17.

fast to his pinss. The buzz words Avoiding short-term fixes when this

:04:18.:04:21.

was another big change in forecast for spending, masses of Tyne qlitle

:04:22.:04:27.

gimmicks and -- gimmicks worthy of Gordon Brown. Some worse than things

:04:28.:04:29.

that Gordon Brown would have announced. I thought it was a shame,

:04:30.:04:34.

there was a lot of micro changes but not a clear strategy, not a clear,

:04:35.:04:41.

you know, when you think about long-term tax reform, there wasn't a

:04:42.:04:45.

clear line of thought, you know, he says he is against cop rap-of-rat

:04:46.:04:51.

tax evasion, the old Chancellor Nigel Lawson used to say you get rid

:04:52.:04:56.

of it by narrowing the gap between personal taxes and corporation tax,

:04:57.:05:00.

it has widened again, so I thought it was a bit of as me, but we ended

:05:01.:05:05.

up thinking he is politically shrewd and he is of course. Very well..

:05:06.:05:10.

The question for today is - there's been a bit of a hoo-ha over

:05:11.:05:15.

whether male presenters are always positioned on the left of the screen

:05:16.:05:18.

Some have argued it's sexist that the women in a presenting duo

:05:19.:05:22.

are always positioned to the right of the man.

:05:23.:05:24.

or d) Her Majesty's Daily Politics.

:05:25.:05:39.

At the end of the show Stephanie will give us the correct answer

:05:40.:05:42.

So the Chancellor blamed the economic slowdown

:05:43.:05:56.

on a "dangerous cocktail" of global risks.

:05:57.:05:58.

And he warned that the UK would have to act now or pay later.

:05:59.:06:03.

His promise to return public finances to the black by 2020 looks

:06:04.:06:06.

Yesterday, he revealed he needed to borrow ?56 billion more

:06:07.:06:11.

than expected over the next five years, in stark contrast

:06:12.:06:14.

to an announcement in November, when he said he had an extra

:06:15.:06:17.

The personal tax allowance will rise to ?11, 500 in 2017.

:06:18.:06:36.

And the higher rate tax threshold will increase

:06:37.:06:38.

Corporation tax is to be cut from 20% to 17% by 2020.

:06:39.:06:45.

And the Government plans to raise ?12 billion by 2020 by cracking down

:06:46.:06:51.

Good news for small businesses - they will see a new threshold

:06:52.:06:57.

for their rate relief, rising from ?6,000 up

:06:58.:07:01.

For savers, the ISA limit will be increased to ?20,000 a year

:07:02.:07:08.

for all savers and lifetime ISAs with a 25% bonus will be introduced

:07:09.:07:12.

A new sugar tax - the Chancellor's headline measure-

:07:13.:07:25.

A new sugar tax - the Chancellor's headline measure -

:07:26.:07:28.

will be introduced in two years' time.

:07:29.:07:29.

The levy will be added to sugary drinks raising ?520 million,

:07:30.:07:32.

to be then spent on primary school sport.

:07:33.:07:34.

That's for the sixth year in a row now.

:07:35.:07:40.

And there's a 2% tax increase on cigarettes,

:07:41.:07:42.

but beer, cider and spirit duties will all be frozen.

:07:43.:07:51.

Let's talk now to Sam Coates from the Times, and Isabel Hardman

:07:52.:07:54.

from the Spectator who are on College Green.

:07:55.:07:56.

, it has widened again, so I thought it was a bit of as me, but we ended

:07:57.:08:01.

up thinking he is politically shrewd and he is of course. Very well..

:08:02.:08:04.

Welcome to both of you. Sam, the big surprise was the sugar tax, do you

:08:05.:08:07.

think that was done mainly to deflect from the fact he was missing

:08:08.:08:10.

his own fiscal targets? Think some of George Osborne's allies were

:08:11.:08:13.

pretty much saying that yesterday, look, I think this is a fascinating

:08:14.:08:19.

budget. It is a budget of two halve, the tough he wants to do now, many

:08:20.:08:23.

will kick in in the first half of this Parliament. The stuff he thinks

:08:24.:08:27.

the popular, lie the sugar tax, the fuel duty freeze, the Isa for the

:08:28.:08:32.

under 40s, the income tax cuts, they are going to come in pretty soon.

:08:33.:08:37.

What he did with his financial jiggery-pokery and moving the years

:08:38.:08:41.

some of the bad news to the end. He pushed off the difficult stuff to

:08:42.:08:45.

the end of the Parliament. Would be Chancellor if 2019 after they had to

:08:46.:08:50.

find in one year ?30 billion of fiscal consolidation? The political

:08:51.:08:53.

point being we know the answer to that. In 2019 George Osborne is

:08:54.:08:56.

probably not going to be the Chancellor, because whatever else is

:08:57.:09:00.

going to happen, there are a Tory leadership contest and George

:09:01.:09:02.

Osborne at that point will either be up or out of that job. It is all

:09:03.:09:07.

about the politics because we have the backdrop of the EU referendum,

:09:08.:09:12.

his leadership ambitions, but how much trouble is he in in terms of

:09:13.:09:19.

credibility and trust, by not meeting those rules for now? He

:09:20.:09:23.

should be in a lot of trouble by right, what lets him off from having

:09:24.:09:27.

missed his target and being on track to miss a third one, is Labour isn't

:09:28.:09:31.

a credible opposition, Jeremy Corbyn did quite a good job yesterday at

:09:32.:09:35.

the despatch box in the House of Commons but he has very little

:09:36.:09:39.

support from MPs and he has terrible ratings as Labour leader, and this

:09:40.:09:43.

means there is no heat at all on George Osborne when he makes

:09:44.:09:46.

mistakes or misses targets he himself has chosen to set. He can

:09:47.:09:49.

get away with it. He can probably set more he is going to miss for

:09:50.:09:53.

another five years if he wants to. The heat coming from some people on

:09:54.:09:59.

the Tory backbenches, particularly over this issue of cuts as many

:10:00.:10:03.

people see it to disability payment, is that going to cause him trouble

:10:04.:10:08.

that will lead to him U-turning? ? It is fascinating. The big picture

:10:09.:10:13.

policy doesn't seem to be causing too many problems or a few people

:10:14.:10:19.

who whinge about the sur plus, not many people think he should be

:10:20.:10:22.

cutting harder. There are two or three areas where there the start a

:10:23.:10:27.

Tory rebellion, there is an underground one on the PIP, the

:10:28.:10:31.

disability cuts outlined yesterday, Tories trying to negotiate in

:10:32.:10:35.

private with the Chancellor to whittle away at some the worst

:10:36.:10:38.

excesses of what was announced. There is going to be before we get

:10:39.:10:45.

there to really quite big high profile revolt, and this is where

:10:46.:10:50.

the budget bumps up against the referendum. Me Tuesday when the

:10:51.:10:55.

Finance Bill is before Parliament there looks like there will be

:10:56.:10:58.

amendments on whether they should get rid of VAT on women's sanitary

:10:59.:11:09.

products which Brussels says has to be. We are now, standing, four day

:11:10.:11:18.

away from George Osborne potentially losing an amendment to the Finance

:11:19.:11:22.

Bill. That is very serious, that hasn't happened since 1994 when Ken

:11:23.:11:28.

Clarke lost one. And that will be have been embarrassing, the

:11:29.:11:30.

Chancellor's people weren't expecting that to happen. I think

:11:31.:11:32.

that is the first thing we will focus on in terms of political

:11:33.:11:36.

problems on this budget. How will that leave George Osborne, if we

:11:37.:11:42.

take that into account, and if we look at a rebellion or moves to get

:11:43.:11:49.

it to change its mind on disability payment, how is his standing among

:11:50.:11:56.

Tory backbenchers. He went in very cautious, the decision to freeze

:11:57.:12:00.

fuel duty showed he didn't want to upset the backbenches, he will be

:12:01.:12:07.

surprised he ended up but a potential rebellion on his hand. He

:12:08.:12:11.

tried to justify the cuts explicitly when he didn't really spent much of

:12:12.:12:16.

the budget speech talking about cuts at all. Briefly but we have to move

:12:17.:12:23.

on. I don't think this with was a budget for the leadership. It was

:12:24.:12:26.

for now and for him being Chancellor and co-Prime Minister. This isn't

:12:27.:12:29.

for now and for him being Chancellor the budget you would give if you had

:12:30.:12:33.

am bigs for the top job, and this is when the hoary hits.

:12:34.:12:38.

Thank you both. Hello, and welcome

:12:39.:12:39.

to the Daily Politics. Nearly 24 hours after the Chancellor

:12:40.:12:43.

delivered his budget, The Chancellor is blaming global

:12:44.:12:56.

head winds for lower economic growth, more borrow, less tax

:12:57.:13:02.

revenue, more spending cuts, why didn't the Chancellor see these

:13:03.:13:06.

gathering storm clouds in November? He is not clairvoyant. He can only

:13:07.:13:10.

react to evens has the I happen. The growth forecast had only come down

:13:11.:13:14.

by a small amount. It is down every year. It is down a bit. Last year.

:13:15.:13:19.

For five year, Last year we had the highest growth of any G7 country.

:13:20.:13:24.

Over the last five years we did better than any G7 country. I wasn't

:13:25.:13:29.

asking about the past, I was asking about the future. The Chancellor is

:13:30.:13:34.

not clairvoyant, but you don't need to be, because the IMF spelled out

:13:35.:13:37.

what was happening to the global economy at its October meeting in

:13:38.:13:42.

Peru. I reread what it said. I talked about a growing catalogue of

:13:43.:13:48.

problem, Slough Chinese growth, a collapse in commodities hitting the

:13:49.:13:52.

emerging market, deflation still a danger, a banking system still full

:13:53.:13:57.

of bad debt, Italy particular and financial markets tanking, that was

:13:58.:13:59.

in October. Where was the Chancellor? The Chancellor in his

:14:00.:14:04.

November statement relied on the Office for Budget Responsibility,

:14:05.:14:07.

that is the UK's independent forecasting body, and he used their

:14:08.:14:10.

forecast in setting the statement. All those things are true. Why

:14:11.:14:14.

didn't he take that into account in November. Because he was relying, he

:14:15.:14:20.

was relying on the Office for Budget Responsibility forecast. All those

:14:21.:14:24.

things made it clearer why we need to stick to the plan. I tell you

:14:25.:14:30.

where he was, he was in Peru, he heard this himself first hand, and

:14:31.:14:36.

yet a month later, when faced with the OBR saying you have 27 billion

:14:37.:14:43.

more accumulated through to 2020 to spend, what did he do, he spent

:14:44.:14:47.

nearly all of us that was a major mistake. Not really. It is provent

:14:48.:14:52.

people like Gordon Brown fiddling with the figures, They didn't tell

:14:53.:14:58.

him to spend more money. The Chancellor decided to use that to

:14:59.:15:01.

alleviate the effect of cuts which was reasonable. Because he ends up

:15:02.:15:08.

four months later with a ?56 billion shortfall, he had 27 billion to save

:15:09.:15:12.

four months ago, you spent most of it and you end up with a ?56 billion

:15:13.:15:17.

shortfall, that is not managing the economy. The point is when we get to

:15:18.:15:23.

2019/20 we will have thes is plus and finally after 18 long years we

:15:24.:15:27.

can start just repaying our nation's debt. What is the point of finding

:15:28.:15:32.

27 billion down the back of the Treasury sofa, and spending it, and

:15:33.:15:36.

then having to borrow almost 40 billion more over the next three

:15:37.:15:45.

years. What is the point of that What is the point of having an

:15:46.:15:51.

independent forecasting service if you ignore them? Therefore cost was

:15:52.:15:54.

they had found 27 billion more, for a number of technical reasons, they

:15:55.:16:02.

didn't tell you to spend it, that was the Chancellor's decision, and

:16:03.:16:06.

it was wrong. I think he was trying to achieve the government's fiscal

:16:07.:16:10.

targets while minimising the level of spending reductions because they

:16:11.:16:15.

have implications. He tried to make those spending reduction impacts as

:16:16.:16:19.

low as possible is to his credit. You've been in power for six years,

:16:20.:16:23.

is it not a measure of your fiscal failure that you will have two Row

:16:24.:16:27.

30 8 billion more pounds in the next three years then you thought even

:16:28.:16:33.

last November? The fact is we have a hard Labour's deficit. You said you

:16:34.:16:38.

would get rid of it. Now you will have to borrow more. It will take us

:16:39.:16:45.

longer to fix Labour's mess that we had hoped, for reasons due to

:16:46.:16:50.

international financial economic 's but the point is, we are fixing it

:16:51.:16:54.

and we have done half the job already. You say that but given the

:16:55.:16:58.

track record of consistently failed this -- fiscal forecasts, why would

:16:59.:17:09.

we believe that a 21 billion deficit in 2018-19 will magically become a

:17:10.:17:16.

10 billion surplus in 2019-20, in one year, a 30 billion turnaround in

:17:17.:17:22.

the nation's fiscal position. Given your government's track record, why

:17:23.:17:25.

is that in any way credible? Started off with a 150 billion deficit, we

:17:26.:17:31.

have halved that and over the next five years we will do that again.

:17:32.:17:36.

Tell me one year where you have changed the fiscal position by ?30

:17:37.:17:40.

billion. Over the five-year period, the rate of change is the same. No,

:17:41.:17:47.

I'm sorry. This is the following do you to be in surplus and suddenly, a

:17:48.:17:54.

deficit becomes a 10 billion surplus. Given your track record,

:17:55.:17:59.

that is truly incredible. You can ask the OBR, they do the forecasts.

:18:00.:18:04.

On the basis of government policy. As you know, they score the forecast

:18:05.:18:09.

for it is delivered and the numbers you have quoted have been scored by

:18:10.:18:13.

the OBR. How much will you add to the national debt in this

:18:14.:18:17.

Parliament? I'm guessing about 400 billion. No, 150 billion, which will

:18:18.:18:28.

take it to 1.7 4 trillion. 1.7 4 trillion under a government that was

:18:29.:18:31.

meant to get control of the nation's finances. Which is why we need to

:18:32.:18:37.

stick with the plan to cut the deficit down. No one is saying our

:18:38.:18:41.

fiscal position is a good one but we have made a huge amount of progress,

:18:42.:18:45.

we have fixed half the problem that Labour left behind and we have a

:18:46.:18:48.

plan that will see us begin to pay the debt down in Twenty20 host of

:18:49.:18:53.

the size of those figures illustrates why it is important we

:18:54.:18:57.

run a slight surplus. The Labour Party and others say it is

:18:58.:19:01.

irresponsible but even if we run a 1% per year surplus, it will still

:19:02.:19:06.

take as 30 or 40 years to get the debt under control, so there is a

:19:07.:19:10.

huge amount of work to do. Why are you cutting public investment? It

:19:11.:19:17.

isn't being cut. I am sorry, it is being cut. In the last financial

:19:18.:19:25.

year, it is 35 billion, up by 2019-20, it will be 32 billion, by

:19:26.:19:30.

my arithmetic that is a ?3 billion cut, why are you cutting it? Because

:19:31.:19:34.

the books need to be balanced. So you are cutting it. If those numbers

:19:35.:19:42.

are correct. The point is, that is a very small reduction... It's not,

:19:43.:19:49.

it's about 10%. It will be used to deliver things like Crossrail two,

:19:50.:19:53.

high-speed three. Which our country needs. Labour says you will balance

:19:54.:20:03.

current spending, so far all I've seen is they have suggested a number

:20:04.:20:06.

of ways in which you would increase current spending, what would you cut

:20:07.:20:11.

the balance current spending? If you would take one example of where we

:20:12.:20:16.

were definitely look to reduce from waste, one example of where we have

:20:17.:20:20.

seen a cost, that is housing benefit. Set to be 350 million more

:20:21.:20:26.

than forecast last July, and why is that? Because we are not building

:20:27.:20:29.

homes. We have seen home ownership come down. You would cut housing

:20:30.:20:35.

benefit? We would invest to save, that's what you do. Would we have

:20:36.:20:42.

not seen George Osborne do. I want to know where you will cut current

:20:43.:20:49.

spending. This is related. Current spending is about 720 billion. So

:20:50.:20:54.

where are you going to cut? What we have said is there are two ways you

:20:55.:20:57.

can balance the books, one is how you increase revenue, you look at

:20:58.:21:02.

fair taxation, tax avoidance and how you grow the economy. What Chris

:21:03.:21:06.

missed out of his commentary was that the OBR actually have said in

:21:07.:21:14.

their fiscal outlook that it is UK productivity that has been a main

:21:15.:21:18.

contributor to the revised GDP figures. They may be factors but I'm

:21:19.:21:24.

not asking you about UK productivity. Where would you cut

:21:25.:21:30.

current spending to bring it into balance? We have been very clear and

:21:31.:21:37.

you will know. About increasing tax receipts through growth and through

:21:38.:21:42.

their taxation as well as looking at how you would make savings. So show

:21:43.:21:47.

me where you would make the savings. George Osborne talks about asking

:21:48.:21:53.

now... But I am asking about Labour policy, tell me where you would cut

:21:54.:21:58.

current spending. We have been very clear. We would be investing in

:21:59.:22:04.

order to see the economy grow. We would be making sure we have

:22:05.:22:07.

increased productivity, investing in new technology. You are displaying

:22:08.:22:14.

the time here. Let me just get you one more time, where would you cut

:22:15.:22:19.

current spending the balance current spending budget? And I have said

:22:20.:22:24.

this before and I will say it again. We would of course lay out editions

:22:25.:22:33.

nearer the time. But we have a framework and what we are saying is

:22:34.:22:36.

you need to have an approach that looks at both sites. Let me try on

:22:37.:22:42.

capital spending. We would say there is a huge amount to do. I had

:22:43.:22:46.

obviously failed on current spending. You would still borrow to

:22:47.:22:53.

invest, borrow for public investment, how much extra would you

:22:54.:22:58.

borrow to invest? That argument for borrowing to invest has been made by

:22:59.:23:01.

many independent economists and it is the right time... I am asking you

:23:02.:23:08.

how much. But we have said, and I will say this again, is we would

:23:09.:23:12.

want to see our spending on investment and infrastructure to be

:23:13.:23:18.

at the OECD average. Which is about 3%? Is that right? We have said

:23:19.:23:27.

that. But we have challenged, as well, the drop in public sector

:23:28.:23:32.

investment that you also talked about today, coming down... Let me

:23:33.:23:41.

come to the 3%. Because at the moment it's just over 1.5%, is

:23:42.:23:46.

heading to about 32 billion. So you would double that, taking it to 64

:23:47.:23:53.

billion. Let's assume that you do balance current spending although

:23:54.:23:58.

you haven't told me how. You would still borrow 64 billion a year. You

:23:59.:24:05.

know as well as I do that these are in line with what the economy would

:24:06.:24:09.

need to grow. You would borrow that indefinitely? We haven't said that,

:24:10.:24:14.

we have said that you need to look at where the needs of the economy

:24:15.:24:18.

are. How you would invest for a return as well. That could be

:24:19.:24:24.

through RND, through looking for a return for working with industry as

:24:25.:24:30.

well, if you look even in investing in renewables, which is incredibly

:24:31.:24:34.

important... I'm not asking you what you would invest in, I'm trying to

:24:35.:24:39.

get the scale. And you have helped us test Bush the scale. Now it

:24:40.:24:45.

follows, since you are talking about 3% of GDP, that if you balance the

:24:46.:24:51.

budget, but borrow 64 billion between 60 and 70 billion to invest

:24:52.:24:55.

your policy is to run a deficit, the finance that borrowing,

:24:56.:25:04.

indefinitely. We have not said that, you are putting words in my mouth,

:25:05.:25:08.

but we have been clear about the principles of how we would approach

:25:09.:25:12.

tax and spend decisions. We would balance the current budget over the

:25:13.:25:16.

course of the parliament and would want to see... And borrow to invest

:25:17.:25:20.

so you would always be adding to the national debt. We would expect a

:25:21.:25:24.

return to growth and tax receipts but there are many black holes in

:25:25.:25:30.

George Osborne's budget, another 560 million that has been identified...

:25:31.:25:35.

Let me ask you this. You didn't ask Chris this. I don't need you to tell

:25:36.:25:41.

me what questions to ask. Do you agree with raising the threshold of

:25:42.:25:48.

the 40% tax rate? We have said we won't be opposing it, we wouldn't do

:25:49.:25:54.

it at this time, because you are seeing a budget that was supposedly

:25:55.:25:58.

to support the next Generation, at the same time as you see rents

:25:59.:26:03.

increasing, you see reports coming out that say that the UK two thirds

:26:04.:26:10.

of the UK is unaffordable for young people. This is a government that

:26:11.:26:12.

has made life much harder for young people. So why are you agreeing with

:26:13.:26:18.

a costly rise? There are a lot of middle income families who also

:26:19.:26:22.

struggling to make ends meet in the climate that we are in. They are

:26:23.:26:30.

below the ?45,000 threshold. But there are families who will be

:26:31.:26:33.

struggling to make ends meet, we believe that we would not make that

:26:34.:26:37.

decision at this time. But we're not going to oppose it. We have said we

:26:38.:26:41.

will oppose inheritance tax cuts, we will oppose further corporation tax

:26:42.:26:47.

cut and the capital gains tax cuts. Would you make the state of the

:26:48.:26:53.

debate? It's finished in reflection, the budget itself was an interesting

:26:54.:26:57.

reflection of the lack of opposition at this time -- an interesting

:26:58.:27:04.

reflection. It was quite aggressive, the tax changes, the distribution of

:27:05.:27:07.

all these tax giveaways, the personal allowances and others, very

:27:08.:27:12.

much to the upper end of the distributional -- it was quite

:27:13.:27:16.

regressive. At the same time as you have cut heavily onto the bottom

:27:17.:27:21.

half of the income distribution and I've seen analysis that shows the

:27:22.:27:26.

changes the election, the bottom half of the net losers and the top

:27:27.:27:31.

half on it gauges. So it just the fact able to do that and focus on

:27:32.:27:36.

the conservative side of the bench in worrying about the friend and

:27:37.:27:42.

everything else. Despite about public investment, you emphasise the

:27:43.:27:46.

slowdown in the global economy, the OBR made clear that most of the

:27:47.:27:49.

change, they have revised down the growth forecast for the rest of the

:27:50.:27:52.

world of most of it is on productivity and as other countries

:27:53.:27:55.

grappled with this problem, they are seeing central banks trying to as

:27:56.:27:59.

much as they can to support growth but turning increasingly thinking,

:28:00.:28:04.

do we need to do more on public investment? Does there need to be

:28:05.:28:08.

fiscal support for growth as well as central banks? So it adjusting that

:28:09.:28:12.

he didn't give more of play to that debate and felt able to have lower

:28:13.:28:17.

public investment going into the future -- so it's interesting. And

:28:18.:28:21.

low it worth of the public sector at a time others have been talking

:28:22.:28:26.

about increasing that. So slightly against the tide of those debates.

:28:27.:28:28.

Thank you both. Well, the Chancellor faces

:28:29.:28:30.

a rebellion over the so-called tampon tax, a 5% levy

:28:31.:28:32.

on sanitary products, Up in arms, an alliance

:28:33.:28:34.

of feminists and campaigners who would like Britain

:28:35.:28:38.

to leave the EU. Let's talk now to the Conservative

:28:39.:28:40.

MP, Anne-Marie Trevelyan who's Isn't that really the nub of it,

:28:41.:28:51.

it's about the campaign to leave the EU, not really about the VAT on

:28:52.:28:55.

sanitary products? Quite the opposite though they are linked.

:28:56.:28:59.

This is an issue we have been trying to get movement on from the Treasury

:29:00.:29:05.

for months, trying to drive the board, it is the right thing to do.

:29:06.:29:10.

This is a completely wrong VAT tax, we have a VAT directive which means

:29:11.:29:16.

we are not able to determine our VAT rates and have to go again to all 27

:29:17.:29:22.

other states to ask them to allow us to do something. I think that is

:29:23.:29:27.

wrong, and at a practical level we need is the Chancellor, and he

:29:28.:29:30.

committed to doing that back in the autumn, to go and ask for that

:29:31.:29:34.

derogation to get that changed in the short term. How big is this

:29:35.:29:39.

rebellion looking? How many colleagues of yours are signing up

:29:40.:29:44.

to rebel? I haven't spoken to anyone this morning I have been in Select

:29:45.:29:47.

Committee but I know there is great support for it, there was earlier in

:29:48.:29:51.

the parliamentary term and that will continue because it is an important

:29:52.:29:55.

issue for women. While the Chancellor is committed to spending

:29:56.:30:02.

somewhere between 12 and 15 million, the VAT take on sanitary products on

:30:03.:30:05.

domestic violence and other issues for women, it is women who are

:30:06.:30:11.

paying, through their tax, on these things, for women's shelters on

:30:12.:30:14.

issues infected by men. Under EU rules the UK zroent the

:30:15.:30:26.

power to cut that VAT further, so you have asked the Chancellor to go

:30:27.:30:31.

and make a case, but beyond that what can he do? He needs to make the

:30:32.:30:39.

case, if he is to show us there is any authority from the our one of 28

:30:40.:30:43.

states to get through to the others in the EU framework, that this is a

:30:44.:30:49.

very minor change that we are asking for in overall VAT and tax terms but

:30:50.:30:53.

the key point it proves we are not controlling our own tax system. That

:30:54.:30:58.

is democratically wrong, British voters should not have taxes set

:30:59.:31:02.

upon them and controlled by those they don't have a direct voting

:31:03.:31:05.

link, that is wrong at every level, as far as I am concerned if the VAT

:31:06.:31:09.

directive isn't that they put forward as being scrapped when the

:31:10.:31:12.

Chancellor comes back with what he saying will be a deal, voting the

:31:13.:31:16.

leave is the only solution. Thank you.

:31:17.:31:17.

Well, later today, David Cameron hot foots it to Brussels for a meeting

:31:18.:31:21.

On the agenda, details of a proposed deal with Turkey to halt

:31:22.:31:25.

There are signs, though, that the agreement is already

:31:26.:31:28.

Let's talk now to our correspondent, Rob Watson, who's in Brussels.

:31:29.:31:35.

What are the leaders trying to achieve? Put very crudely, Jo, they

:31:36.:31:43.

want to do is deter migrants from coming to Europe. The way they want

:31:44.:31:47.

to do that is say look, if you try to make it to Greece or any other

:31:48.:31:52.

part offure, you will be taken back to Turkey and you will end up at the

:31:53.:31:56.

back of the queue. In order do that they need to sweeten the pill for

:31:57.:32:03.

Turkey, so there are a number of goodies for Ankara including things

:32:04.:32:05.

like speeding up access to membership of the EU and giving

:32:06.:32:10.

tushes a free visa visit to the European Union. That is the nature

:32:11.:32:13.

of the deal. As it looks from your perspective is it going to happen,

:32:14.:32:18.

are they going to sign it? Well, what I will say in many ways these

:32:19.:32:23.

summits are doomed to success, what I mean by that is you don't find

:32:24.:32:28.

leaders saying we did our best, we tried but it ain't going to work, so

:32:29.:32:32.

yes they will come to some kind of agreement, but the question is, will

:32:33.:32:36.

it work? There are all sorts of problems, how exactly is it going to

:32:37.:32:41.

work, taking people by boat from Greece, to Turkey? Will the

:32:42.:32:44.

Europeans deliver on their promise, to the Turks? And I guess the other

:32:45.:32:49.

thing to look at is to say look, there have been EU summits since

:32:50.:32:52.

2001 trying to deal with this problem, there have been previous

:32:53.:32:54.

agreements with Turkey, they haven't worked. It is right to be sceptical.

:32:55.:33:01.

There is a sense that this deal is absolutely far from perfect, but

:33:02.:33:03.

it's the only one out there. Thank you very much.

:33:04.:33:06.

Well, earlier I spoke to David McAllister MEP

:33:07.:33:09.

I began by asking him whether Germany was now

:33:10.:33:12.

going to heed David Cameron's advice not to shut Turkey out

:33:13.:33:14.

Well, I am carefully optimistic we can find a deal at this sum my. Of

:33:15.:33:28.

course there is still hard work in front of us, but we need Turkey to

:33:29.:33:34.

find a solution, for the migration crisis, we have to bring the numbers

:33:35.:33:40.

down of illegal migrant coming from Turkey to grease. How high a price

:33:41.:33:46.

are you prepared to pay? In 2013 you said Turkey wasn't politically or

:33:47.:33:50.

economically fit enough to join the EU. Have you changed your mind? We

:33:51.:33:55.

obviously have to co-operate with Turkey, to solve this crisis, and

:33:56.:33:58.

this is a very important question for Germany. So the one thing is to

:33:59.:34:03.

co-operate with Turkey, on the other hand we have our European value, we

:34:04.:34:08.

have Turkish interests but we have our European values on the other

:34:09.:34:13.

hand, and of course, there won't be any discount for Turkey, we

:34:14.:34:17.

understand their concern, they want more financial assistance, I believe

:34:18.:34:22.

we should be ready to give it. They want to open new chapter, here I

:34:23.:34:26.

would say they have to match the cry Syria, they have to fulfil all

:34:27.:34:29.

conditions like all other countries who are in a membership process, but

:34:30.:34:36.

we also see the situation of the freedom of media, the freedom of

:34:37.:34:40.

expression, human rights and we will have toed a dress the concerns

:34:41.:34:43.

whenever we are together with the Turks. Is the EU ready and are you

:34:44.:34:49.

ready to allow Turkish citizens full access to the Shengen zone by July?

:34:50.:34:56.

Well, the question of viva liberalisation has always been on

:34:57.:35:00.

the agenda for Turkish Government. I remember when the President came and

:35:01.:35:03.

talked to Angela Merkel about that few years ago, I am ready to go a

:35:04.:35:09.

few steps forward. Once again Turkey has to fulfil the necessary criteria

:35:10.:35:17.

so we can have viva liberisation for Turkish citizen, the European

:35:18.:35:20.

council decided this should be achieved by July. This is very

:35:21.:35:23.

ambitious and it is up to Turkey to deliver. We are seeing slum camps on

:35:24.:35:30.

the borders of Macedonian and reG4S -- refugees attempt to settle in

:35:31.:35:34.

Germany. Did you expect the open door policy would have such profound

:35:35.:35:42.

consequences? Angela Merkel is committed to a humanitarian refugee

:35:43.:35:48.

policy, and Germany has shown responsibility in the last 12 months

:35:49.:35:54.

like no other country in the on your union. These pictures are sad

:35:55.:35:59.

pictures, and they are certainly breaching our European values. We

:36:00.:36:04.

need to find a sustainable European solution. This is the good thing

:36:05.:36:08.

about this summit, since ten days for the first time we see the

:36:09.:36:13.

possibility of a European approach to solve-of-crisis, but once again,

:36:14.:36:21.

all 28 member states have to agree, we have got to stop the illegal

:36:22.:36:25.

migration from other parts of the world to Europe, we have got to

:36:26.:36:30.

break the system, we have to break the link between getting on a boat,

:36:31.:36:34.

and then finding resettlement in Europe. That is why this European

:36:35.:36:38.

Turkish deal might be the breakthrough. Angela Merkel, will

:36:39.:36:44.

she survive politically? Sure, she is our Chancellor, our party leader

:36:45.:36:47.

and she has a lot of support in Germany. That is why we will follow

:36:48.:36:53.

her on a refugee policy once again it is Angela Merkel's policy to find

:36:54.:36:58.

an international response to this international crisis, we have to

:36:59.:37:03.

solve the root causes, why these people are coming to Europe. We need

:37:04.:37:07.

more European solidarity, that is why it is so important the 28 member

:37:08.:37:12.

states co-operate, it is better to do this together, than every single

:37:13.:37:16.

nation state in the European Union going it own way. Thank you.

:37:17.:37:21.

And with us now, Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Select

:37:22.:37:24.

Committee, Crispin Blunt, and the Shadow Foreign Secretary,

:37:25.:37:26.

Hilary Benn there is a lot coming out top of European capitals, not

:37:27.:37:36.

happy with this deal that Angela Merkel has in effect done with

:37:37.:37:42.

Turkey, she did it without involving the President or President Hollande.

:37:43.:37:45.

Is it going to get through? It will be a difficult meeting today. I

:37:46.:37:52.

think in the end this is the only potential deal. It is the only show

:37:53.:37:56.

in town. There are a lot of questions about it, which member

:37:57.:38:03.

states will have, what happens in people are detained in Greek

:38:04.:38:07.

territorial waters as opposed to Turkish, views expressed about the

:38:08.:38:12.

legality of this, what is the status of Turkey as a safe place for

:38:13.:38:16.

refugees to be, but I suspect in the end something will go through,

:38:17.:38:19.

because I think both sides need this. Do you think it will go

:38:20.:38:24.

through? I don't know. I don't think it should, where it is making

:38:25.:38:28.

concessions to Turkey about early accession to the European Union, I

:38:29.:38:31.

think the only thing we should be talking to Turkey about is giving

:38:32.:38:34.

them financial support for the problems they face on their border

:38:35.:38:39.

and giving them the proper support as a neighbouring state to the

:38:40.:38:44.

crisis. Is it giving concession to Turkey on early accession? Chapters

:38:45.:38:48.

are being advanced, they are being offered vice have a free access to

:38:49.:38:53.

the Shengen answeria, all of these are -- area. All of these are EU

:38:54.:38:59.

deals with the Turks to make them more accommodating on the issue. It

:39:00.:39:03.

is ignoring the fact Turkey is spiralling down into dictatorship.

:39:04.:39:07.

It is running a disgrace. War against its own people in south-east

:39:08.:39:10.

Turkey which it chose to do as the Government. And we appear to be

:39:11.:39:15.

ignoring the fact Turkey is no longer a country that is led by

:39:16.:39:18.

someone who is fit to be a partner in the European Union. Does this

:39:19.:39:22.

deal involve speeding up Turkey's application process? I don't think

:39:23.:39:26.

so in practise, for the reason, as Crispin has just said, there are a

:39:27.:39:30.

lot of problems in Turkey at the moment and there are conditions you

:39:31.:39:34.

have to meet. I don't think, I think Turkish accession is a long way off.

:39:35.:39:39.

Would you be in favour of it In presence. Certain subject to certain

:39:40.:39:44.

condition, firstly they meet the standards on human right, governance

:39:45.:39:49.

of law, there is the question of Cyprus, the crucial point will be

:39:50.:39:52.

where we end up on free movemenches we would say member states will have

:39:53.:39:59.

to be able to decide for themselves what transitional arrangement and

:40:00.:40:01.

how long they want them to be in place before taking a decision, as

:40:02.:40:06.

you know, every member state has to agree so any one has a veto. It is a

:40:07.:40:10.

long way off. I wouldn't confuse frankly although Turkey may be

:40:11.:40:15.

seeking to bring the two things together, a decision today,

:40:16.:40:19.

hopefully can be reached, I don't know. Twries to deal with the

:40:20.:40:23.

refugee crisis and the question of Turkish membership. The book has

:40:24.:40:27.

been opened on it for coming on for 11 years, So Turkey I can's

:40:28.:40:34.

membership is in the long grass. What signals are we sending, it is

:40:35.:40:42.

under rogue leadership, with internal policies, that are

:40:43.:40:46.

disgraceful, by any standard, and which is placed its domestic

:40:47.:40:49.

politics ahead of the common international interest both in

:40:50.:40:53.

bringing the Syrian civil war to an end, as well as... All that would

:40:54.:40:57.

disical them for membership under current conditions. It would. What

:40:58.:41:01.

is going on here? What is being offered? Is this, why are terms

:41:02.:41:07.

being offered to Turkey round viva free access to the Shengen area, it

:41:08.:41:13.

is in the draft agreement that has been leaked, actually offering

:41:14.:41:18.

accelerated terms under the chapters round the accession negotiations,

:41:19.:41:22.

this is not the time to be making these concessions to Turkey, we

:41:23.:41:27.

should be clear. It is clear, that under Erdogan Turkey wants to join

:41:28.:41:34.

the EU? It is a real question, a reflection of how badly the European

:41:35.:41:38.

Union have damaged their relationship with Turkey and indeed

:41:39.:41:42.

with Ukraine and the other side of Russia. All this focus on the

:41:43.:41:46.

eurozone has distracked from the long-term strategy of securing the

:41:47.:41:49.

neighbouring parts and one of the reflections of that is where the

:41:50.:41:54.

Erdogan Government has gone. I think he has been giving conflicting

:41:55.:41:58.

signals on that I would say it is clear it's a long way off any

:41:59.:42:02.

serious asession. Let me come whack to migrants. Part of the agreement

:42:03.:42:07.

is those that in other circumstances, the Vietnamese for

:42:08.:42:14.

example would be called boat people. They made it to Greece. Part of the

:42:15.:42:21.

deal is they are to be sent back to Turkey, on the Syrian basis one for

:42:22.:42:26.

other other Syrians will be properly processed out of the camps and enter

:42:27.:42:30.

into Greece and I assume the European Union, how do you force

:42:31.:42:34.

them to go back? That is one of the really practical problems with the

:42:35.:42:39.

proposed arrangements in the circumstances. It will come down to

:42:40.:42:45.

what happens when boats are intercepted, at sea and what message

:42:46.:42:50.

it send if it is successful, in returning people to Turkey. I can

:42:51.:42:57.

see an agreement where by if Nato ships or whatever, or European Union

:42:58.:43:01.

frontier boats stop the boat people, the migrants trying to make it, that

:43:02.:43:06.

there is an agreement they take them back from whence they came which

:43:07.:43:09.

would be Turkey, I am talking about the tens of thousands of migrants

:43:10.:43:13.

who have made it on to Greek territory. Hour do you force them to

:43:14.:43:19.

go back? I think that would be very difficult. I would suppose that any

:43:20.:43:25.

agreement that is reached is going to have to look separately at that

:43:26.:43:27.

from anyone who might be coming in the future. As we are seen, in the

:43:28.:43:34.

last few months, people will do desperate things to progress because

:43:35.:43:38.

of the trauma they have suffered in Syria and it is important we try and

:43:39.:43:43.

come to an a rankment which is workable to deal with that, and to

:43:44.:43:47.

separate out economic migrants because that is another part of the

:43:48.:43:52.

flow from those who are fleeing persecution genuinely. That applies

:43:53.:43:57.

to anyone coming out of Syria. As the European Union grapples with the

:43:58.:44:03.

flow of people from Turkey, to Greece, as the spring weather begins

:44:04.:44:08.

to light on the southern Mediterranean, I am seeing reports

:44:09.:44:13.

as the Lampedusa crossing becomes more possible welcome back the

:44:14.:44:19.

weather weather they are up to 500,000 migrants gathered on the

:44:20.:44:22.

coast of Libya. That is not covered by the Turkish agreement. This is a

:44:23.:44:28.

new, a return to a previous way that people were coming in. Strong among

:44:29.:44:34.

the people traffickers there, is Islamic State. And the briefings my

:44:35.:44:40.

committee got, we went to Cairo and Tunis, were some of the routes from

:44:41.:44:45.

central Africa and West Africa are controlled by Islamic State and they

:44:46.:44:48.

are money from people, they are the people taking the money from the

:44:49.:44:52.

people smugglers. I don't know whether 500,000 is the right number,

:44:53.:44:56.

it didn't get any sense from the briefings we received it was of that

:44:57.:45:03.

scale but plainly question is very much back in play. We need to, it is

:45:04.:45:11.

a huge issue we will have to come back to this, we have own out of

:45:12.:45:16.

time. I know you are for Remain, are you maind your mind up? My committee

:45:17.:45:21.

is continuing to take evidence. Your committee? Are they going to tell

:45:22.:45:36.

you how to vote? People are crying out for an unbiased assessment and

:45:37.:45:40.

we need to look at the patience for Britain's future role in the world

:45:41.:45:44.

and we have a committee that is split. I want a unanimous report

:45:45.:45:49.

from Europe files and Eurosceptics, who will then announce a report

:45:50.:45:55.

agreed by everyone. Yes, I will tell you. Because the nation is waiting

:45:56.:46:01.

to hear! But I will wait to hear until the committee has reported...

:46:02.:46:11.

I think he has said yes! I can't imagine anywhere better to announce

:46:12.:46:12.

it in on this programme. Now, back to the budget,

:46:13.:46:16.

the Chancellor was keen to point out that this budget was aimed

:46:17.:46:19.

at the next generation. He mentioned them 18

:46:20.:46:21.

times to be precise. One wonders about family life

:46:22.:46:23.

in the Osborne house. The Chancellor announced

:46:24.:46:26.

crowd-pleasers like longer school hours

:46:27.:46:27.

and that tax on sugar. My mum always said you weren't

:46:28.:46:29.

allowed fizzy drinks before lunchtime but that doesn't mean you

:46:30.:46:36.

can't discuss them before lunchtime. We are asking is this sugar tax

:46:37.:46:38.

a good idea or a bad Have you heard of a man

:46:39.:46:41.

called George Osborne? This is what the government

:46:42.:46:49.

is going to do to stop people drinking too many fizzy drinks,

:46:50.:46:55.

what do you think about that? Should fizzy drinks cost

:46:56.:46:58.

more to stop people Because fizzy drinks doesn't

:46:59.:47:07.

really matter that much. The more they cost,

:47:08.:47:16.

the less you buy. I'm sure it will do,

:47:17.:47:25.

because like the Yesterday they announced

:47:26.:48:02.

another thing that will affect you, making

:48:03.:48:12.

school longer every day, You are a school nurse,

:48:13.:48:14.

you are a medical professional, will this stop kids drinking

:48:15.:48:30.

too many fizzy drinks? Yes, we think it will make a big

:48:31.:48:32.

difference, it's an excellent move If a can was 10p more expensive,

:48:33.:48:35.

would you not buy it? You could adopt the libertarian

:48:36.:48:40.

argument of saying you choose your life and pay

:48:41.:48:56.

accordingly but we don't live in that, we live

:48:57.:48:59.

in a world where our National Health Service

:49:00.:49:01.

is under increasing pressure and the population

:49:02.:49:02.

is ageing and the next problem is obesity so we have to try

:49:03.:49:06.

and do something about it. What are the odds of

:49:07.:49:09.

bumping into a Tory MP who is a GP on the street

:49:10.:49:12.

near the school! The bell has just gone

:49:13.:49:14.

and they are all in their first I think we asked nearly the whole

:49:15.:49:18.

school and I think a big majority And with us now, Kate Andrews from

:49:19.:49:22.

the Institute of Economic Affairs. So it's a good idea? I don't think

:49:23.:49:38.

so, it's incredibly regressive, it will hurt people at the bottom who

:49:39.:49:42.

may not have the disposable income to be able to justify a few pence

:49:43.:49:46.

increase on their drinks, but putting that aside, the most

:49:47.:49:48.

frustrating part of this policy is that the Chancellor is interested in

:49:49.:49:57.

curbing obi city, I would urge to increment a policy where anywhere in

:49:58.:50:00.

the world there was one piece of evidence that you your tax would

:50:01.:50:07.

affect anything. There is no evidence that it has any impact on

:50:08.:50:14.

health outcomes. There is some from Mexico, but we will talk about that.

:50:15.:50:19.

It is arguably regressive in terms of disproportionately hitting the

:50:20.:50:22.

poorest but so is sugar and its impact, and the obesity crisis. Two

:50:23.:50:34.

thirds of adults are obese, it disproportionately affects the

:50:35.:50:37.

poorest, so surely it is a good thing to do to deal with that? You

:50:38.:50:42.

have that into the philosophy of it, and if we think we want to live in a

:50:43.:50:47.

society where somebody is of a lower income is more likely to be

:50:48.:50:50.

overweight, that we can say from the top down, we are going to price you

:50:51.:50:55.

out of this, not allow you to purchase things, I'm deeply

:50:56.:50:59.

uncomfortable with that. It is an issue we should be tackling... It is

:51:00.:51:05.

a crisis. But not by pricing people out of something, people at the top

:51:06.:51:08.

can still have this but we have decided your lifestyle habits are

:51:09.:51:11.

dangerous and we will try and take you out of the equation, that is

:51:12.:51:14.

something all of us are uncomfortable with. On the demand

:51:15.:51:19.

issue, it would reduces the demand for sugary drinks then surely it

:51:20.:51:23.

reduces and decreases the risks of obesity. It would be if we saw a

:51:24.:51:30.

decrease in demand but we can look at Denmark and Mexico... They put a

:51:31.:51:35.

10% tax on the strings in Mexico and we also saw consumption decreased by

:51:36.:51:41.

6%. And now if you look, it is right back up to where it was. There has

:51:42.:51:46.

been no decrease in Mexico. Would it work, would it tackle obesity? It is

:51:47.:51:51.

a good first step, it is ready hard to change people's behaviour, it's a

:51:52.:51:56.

shame that some of the public have budget, some of those programmes,

:51:57.:52:01.

were cut in the last year, but I think the head of the NHS made quite

:52:02.:52:04.

clear that this was an issue that was important to him and I think

:52:05.:52:09.

it's a good first step. It is focused on the volume of sugar, to

:52:10.:52:13.

get into the technicalities, it does make sense, because we think a lot

:52:14.:52:16.

of the worst offenders, it is always to put the price of one in the

:52:17.:52:21.

supermarkets, it tackles that issue as well as starting on the road to

:52:22.:52:26.

higher prices. But when the issue is focused on children, people don't

:52:27.:52:30.

worry quite so much, maybe that's why he's focused on that argument

:52:31.:52:33.

because we don't mind nannying children, it's adults that are a

:52:34.:52:40.

problem. Thank you. You do enough nannying of May! -- of me. Depends

:52:41.:52:48.

where you look. Now, George Osborne,

:52:49.:52:50.

he's not exactly Michael McIntyre or Jimmy Carr, and it's not his job

:52:51.:52:52.

to stand up and make everyone laugh, but the Chancellor does

:52:53.:52:55.

like to pepper his budget script with a few quips.

:52:56.:52:58.

And he's not the only one. Here's our Adam with something

:52:59.:53:00.

completely different. The guide to budget jokes, in fifth

:53:01.:53:13.

press, Norman Lamont takes a dig at the newspapers. Some of these zero

:53:14.:53:18.

rated goods, food and water, are clearly amongst the most basic

:53:19.:53:24.

necessities of life. Others, for example... Sewage and newspapers,

:53:25.:53:30.

perhaps fall into a different category. Me neither. In fourth, Ken

:53:31.:53:40.

Clarke begins his 1996 budget speech. Contrary to public belief, I

:53:41.:53:45.

do always look at the mirror in the morning... On this occasion I am

:53:46.:53:50.

reasonably well prepared for this occasion, about to deliver the real

:53:51.:53:58.

budget statement. At least he's enjoying himself! In third, George

:53:59.:54:06.

Osborne about Ed Miliband and his Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls. He will

:54:07.:54:13.

support our brilliant video games and animation industry too, because

:54:14.:54:17.

it is the determined policy of this government that we keep Wallace and

:54:18.:54:23.

Gromit exactly where they are. Cracking jokes, George! In second,

:54:24.:54:30.

not known for his sense of humour, Gordon Brown. In anticipation of

:54:31.:54:35.

World Cup success this summer, I'm freezing duty on champagne... And on

:54:36.:54:43.

British sparkling wine. Which he followed up with this, and get David

:54:44.:54:49.

Cameron. I hold to our pledge not to extend VAT to a number of items, no

:54:50.:54:55.

VAT on food, books and use papers, public transport fares, and

:54:56.:54:59.

children's clothes, and children's shoes, including flip-flops. Good

:55:00.:55:07.

try, Gordon. In the top spot, George Osborne took the time in this budget

:55:08.:55:12.

to pay tribute to his former coalition partners. The former

:55:13.:55:15.

pensions minister, the Liberal Democrat Steve Webb said, I was

:55:16.:55:20.

trying to abolish the lump sum. Instead we will keep the lump sum

:55:21.:55:28.

and abolish the Liberal Democrats. Tim Farron is laughing on the

:55:29.:55:29.

outside. And with us now, former Conservative

:55:30.:55:33.

MP, Matthew Parris from the Times. I hesitate to say this but Mr

:55:34.:55:45.

Osborne had the best jokes. Yes, he's possibly the best joker...

:55:46.:55:53.

Boom, boom! But generally he carries them off although he had another

:55:54.:55:56.

joke in that budget about the Crossrail to, heading south... For

:55:57.:56:02.

people heading south. I thought that was quite funny, too. That is a very

:56:03.:56:09.

city slicker kind of joke. I don't think a lot of people have got it.

:56:10.:56:16.

Disraeli ruined his first budget as Chancellor with too much scorn, too

:56:17.:56:21.

much derision, too many jokes at the expense of the opposition, enabling

:56:22.:56:25.

Gladstone to get up and be pompous for about five hours, did him a lot

:56:26.:56:29.

of harm. I think you tread carefully if you make jokes as Chancellor. He

:56:30.:56:34.

got away with it, they often don't. Who gives them the jokes? They will

:56:35.:56:42.

have advisers, speech writers, think Danny Finkelstein helps, but some of

:56:43.:56:45.

them they may think of on their own. George Osborne is quite a funny man.

:56:46.:56:50.

I see the danger of overdoing it when you are talking about people's

:56:51.:56:55.

pay, unemployment, standard of living, but a couple of jokes in an

:56:56.:56:58.

hour-long budget speech is not a bad idea. I agree, if you can live in it

:56:59.:57:06.

in some way, it works better if it is a response to somebody else

:57:07.:57:08.

rather than something that has been laboratory worked up. I think it was

:57:09.:57:14.

Jeremy Corbyn the other day who said, I have been talking to a lot

:57:15.:57:17.

of Socialist leaders and they all say somebody shouted, who are you,

:57:18.:57:21.

that worked well because it was spontaneous. Is Mr Osborne funny

:57:22.:57:29.

than previous chancellors? I think he does get away with the delivery,

:57:30.:57:33.

the convoluted jokes are hard to get away with but he has got away with a

:57:34.:57:37.

few, the King John joke around his support for the Magna Carta, at the

:57:38.:57:42.

expense of Ed Miliband, was a terribly clever one but because he

:57:43.:57:45.

is known to be an historian and because he was doing a thing about

:57:46.:57:49.

the Magna Carta, it did actually come off. I don't think Gordon Brown

:57:50.:57:54.

ever pulled them off. The bust until any jokes in that five hours? No,

:57:55.:58:00.

no, Gladstone didn't tell jokes. George Osborne has the be careful

:58:01.:58:06.

not to be accused of devising budget measures so as to come up with

:58:07.:58:12.

jokes. He made a joke about the church roof, the Labour opposition

:58:13.:58:18.

said, that the cost ?100 million. We never do that with our script!

:58:19.:58:21.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:22.:58:24.

The question was - there's been a bit of a hoo haa over

:58:25.:58:27.

whether male presenters are always positioned

:58:28.:58:29.

on the left of the screen on TV chat shows.

:58:30.:58:31.

You buck the trend in so many ways! You haven't managed to sit on

:58:32.:58:50.

Andrew! Not literally but metaphorically!

:58:51.:58:51.

That's all for today. Thanks to our guests.

:58:52.:58:53.

The One o'Clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:54.:58:56.

And I will be on BBC One tonight talking about Russia

:58:57.:58:58.

and the sex industry with Michael Portillo,

:58:59.:59:00.

Alan Johnson, Stacey Dooley, Anne McElvoy and Tim Marshall

:59:01.:59:02.

I'm 52 years old... HE CLEARS THROAT

:59:03.:59:06.

..and I want... HE MAKES CLICKING NOISES, GRUNTS

:59:07.:59:09.

The fact that... HE MAKES HIGH-PITCHED GROAN

:59:10.:59:17.

..it's harder for me to find a job...means I want it even more.

:59:18.:59:20.

When you keep getting knocked down and knocked down and knocked down

:59:21.:59:24.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by economist Stephanie Flanders to discuss George Osborne's Budget.

Also included is the latest from the EU Summit in Brussels, where leaders are hoping to reach a deal on Europe's migration crisis.


Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS