Browse content similar to 28/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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We now know that the 96 football fans who died at Hillsborough 27 | :00:37. | :00:47. | |
But should the current Chief Constable have | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
Naz Shah has been suspended from the Labour Party over | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
Has the Labour Leader been too slow to act over this and other | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
We'll be speaking to Ken Livingstone. | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
Leaving the European Union is a threat to jobs, wages | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
and prices say the Prime Minister and a former union boss. | :01:08. | :01:12. | |
But a group of economists claim quitting the single market | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
would boost national income and raise living standards. | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
# This is what it sounds like...# | :01:18. | :01:28. | |
We put a Prince mega fan through his paces. | :01:29. | :01:38. | |
I saw Prince live, you know. Did you? A great night, I think. | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
From what I can remember, which isn't a lot. | :01:45. | :01:46. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, former | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
Liberal Democrat Leader, Deputy Prime Minister | :01:50. | :01:50. | |
First this morning, the Chief Constable | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
suspended following Tuesday's verdicts in the | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
David Crompton is accused by campaigners of overseeing | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
attempts to shift the blame on to Liverpool fans | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
Police and Crime Commissioner, Doctor Alan Billings, | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
who took the decision to remove David Crompton from his job, | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
I've reached of this decision with a heavy heart, | :02:16. | :02:25. | |
following discussions with David, both in the run-up to | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
and following the delivery of the Hillsborough verdicts. | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
My decision is based on the erosion of public trust and confidence, | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
referenced in statements and comments in the House | :02:35. | :02:36. | |
of Commons this lunch time, along with public calls | :02:37. | :02:38. | |
for the Chief Constable's resignation from a number | :02:39. | :02:40. | |
Nick Clegg, should David Crompton have been suspended? I think there | :02:41. | :02:55. | |
should be no alternative. I spoke to AlanBillings about it, the day | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
before the judgment came out. I think it was quite clear from that | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
and other conversations that whilst of course David Crompton was not | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
around 27 years ago, the decision by South Yorkshire Police to continue, | :03:07. | :03:09. | |
after by the way having issued a fulsome apology to the families in | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
Liverpool, to nonetheless, continue with a lot of the misinformation | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
that had been perpet waited by South Yorkshire Police over so many years, | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
was a huge error and quite, rightly, I think, he has taken responsibility | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
for it. Is there a risk, that because of the failure to get to the | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
truth for 27 years of what happened that day, at Hillsborough, that | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
individual police officers today may be unfairly blamed for the actual | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
deaths of the 96 fans, remember than, or just for the cover-up. Of | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
course, there are lots of risks. I as a constituency MP in South | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
Yorkshire, on behalf of of my constituents, I'm worried, for | :03:53. | :03:55. | |
instance, that the good, dutiful professional dedicated police | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
officers who work in the South Yorkshire force, who have nothing to | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
do with the events, either what happened in Hillsborough or | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
subsequent events, they are deeply demoralised now. Urgently, for the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
people of South Yorkshire we need to somehow try to restore a sense of | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
morale and purpose to the force itself. Unfortunately for the force | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
it goes wider than Hillsborough. If you look at the explanations of one | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
of David Crompton's predecessors to the House of Commons about the | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
horrific things that happened in Rotherham, the sexual exploitation, | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
and some very vulnerable children there, claiming the force had no | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
idea what was going on, I'm afraid this is another hammer blow against | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
a force whose credibility has been damaged in so many respects over a | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
long period of time. Should David Crompton resign, go permanently, do | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
you think? To be honested. He is suspended now. This is not going to | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
be fixed by whether or not he is suspended. We have a were found | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
problem in a police force who for various, complex reasons, have | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
simply not met the most basic standards not only of integrity but | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
professionalism on a number of fronts over very many years. | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
Something radical needs to be done. Whoever is elected as the Police and | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
Crime Commissioner in South Yorkshire next week, this is their | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
absolute number one priority. Now some people have said about | :05:13. | :05:14. | |
disbanding the force, folding it into another one. I'm in the if that | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
necessarily will produce better policing in the local area but | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
clearly every option needs to be considered. A message on a website | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
for the forces' retired officers said they had dedicated and | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
courageous careers and they should be proud of their work, deit spite | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
the inquests' conclusions. What is your response to that? It is a very | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
insensitive thing to say, right now. In the very strict limits of how it | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
might have been intended, of course it is right to say there are plenty | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
of individual police officers, I know many of them, who are as good | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
as police officers, any other around the country, and their integrity | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
should not be willfully be besmirched because of what happened | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
27 years ago or recently in the inquests but to say that now. It | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
wasn't meant for public consumption But to say that - I can understand | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
why the families of the 96 feel it was an incredibly crass and incense | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
think of thing to say but look, I'm also a South Yorkshire MP. I want a | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
good police force to do good work for my constituents and the problem | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
at the moment you have a force in complete disarray. So after the PCC, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
the Police and Crime Commissioner elections next week, we finally have | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
to turn a page on this very, very sorry history of the force over many | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
years. Thank you. Our Guest of the Day, | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
Nick Clegg, is a big music fan. But which '80s' popstar did | :06:32. | :06:38. | |
he dress up as when he was Was it a) Mick Jagger, b) David | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
Bowie, c) Freddie Mercury I know which one I'm ghg for. -- I'm | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
going for. So the Bradford West MP | :06:47. | :06:58. | |
Naz Shah was suspended from the Labour party yesterday, | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
pending an investigation into whether tweets she sent before | :07:06. | :07:07. | |
she was an MP were anti-Semitic. She had already resigned her | :07:08. | :07:09. | |
minor and unpaid post as Parliamentary Private Secretary | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
to the Shadow Chancellor, The party will hope to draw | :07:13. | :07:14. | |
a line under the matter but today more questions | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
are being asked about its handling of this and other | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
allegations of anti-Semitism. Yesterday, MP Naz Shah | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
was suspended by the Labour Party following the discovery of social | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
media posts she made One post suggested the country | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
should be moved to the United while another showed | :07:32. | :07:38. | |
Martin Luther-King with the caption "never forget that everything Hitler | :07:39. | :07:46. | |
did in Germany was legal", This is not the first time the | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
Labour Party has been accused of Last month activists | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
Gerry Downing and Vicki Kirby And yesterday, Bradford councillor, | :07:56. | :08:06. | |
Mohammad Shabbir, was also excluded Several senior Labour politicians, | :08:07. | :08:15. | |
including Lord Levy, say the party has a "serious | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
issue" with anti-Semitism. Labour MPs John Mann | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
and Wes Streeting have criticised leader Jeremy Corbyn | :08:24. | :08:25. | |
for being "flat-footed" on the issue, and said | :08:26. | :08:26. | |
they want to see the Labour The Board of Deputies a body that | :08:27. | :08:41. | |
represents British Jews have called on them to implement a strategy on | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
this issue. And we're joined now by the former | :08:44. | :08:44. | |
Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, Who is facing calls to be suspended. | :08:45. | :09:09. | |
I have heard a lot of criticism of Israel, I have never heard anything | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
anti-Semitic. I think blurring the things undermines the real | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
importance of anti-Semitism. A real anti-Semite doesn't hate the Jews in | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Israel, they hate their Jewish neighbour in Golders Green or Stoke | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
Newington, it is a physical loathing. When Naz Shah MPed a very | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
Kates the forceable removal of Israeli Jews to the United States, | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
it is not anti-Semitism? No, it is over the top and rude. I supported | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Naz in her campaign to... Is that not anti-Semitism? No, she was rude, | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
over the top, who am I to denounce anyone for doing that The forceable | :09:47. | :09:56. | |
deportation of Jews? Wrong. Not anti-Semitic I don't think she S it | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
was incredibly rude. I don't think she was an anti-Semite. When the | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
investigation is finished they will say she was rude and over the top | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
but they won't find evidence that she hates Jews. When she urges in an | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
online poll that show wants people to vote her way because "The Jews | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
are rowing", that's not anti-Semitic? We have to investigate | :10:22. | :10:23. | |
the charges and contexts in which they are made. If she is | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
anti-Semitic, like the other three or four members we have found to be | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
anti-Semitic, she will be expelled. When she posted a tweet, linking to | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
a blog which claimed that Zionism was grooming Jews to exert influence | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
at the highest levels of public life s that not anti-Semitism? That's | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
part of the classic anti-Semitic thing that there is an international | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
Jewish conspiracy. She link to the blog. You have said there isn't a | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
provenlt I suggest to you that the evidence I'm giving to you suggests | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
that at the very least one should have an open mind? I have an open | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
mind. No, you have said she is not anti-Semitic I see nothing to | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
suggest to me that she is anti-Semitic, I wouldn't have | :11:10. | :11:11. | |
supported here, if I thought she was. When she the puts on social | :11:12. | :11:19. | |
immediate and disaccept nights a slogan "Never forget anything that | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
Hitler did in Germany was legal." Is that not anti-Semitic? It is a | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
statement of fact. Hitler passed the laws to allow him to do it. What is | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
the point of the fact? It is history. But Hitler was mad, he | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
killed six million Jews. Why would you undermine it was legal to kill | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
six million Jews? She is not saying it is legal, but what they did in | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
the way they ran that country allowed them not to kill only 6 | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
million Jews but kill the Communists and lefties like me. My father | :11:51. | :11:59. | |
almost died when a Nazi sub, sinked his boat. We all have fares fathers | :12:00. | :12:07. | |
like that, not all. So when the Luton Labour councillor was | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
suspended after describing Hitler as "the greatest man in history" and | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
saying she wanted Iran to wipe out Israel in a nuclear attack, that is | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
not anti-Semitism? That is and that's why she has been suspended or | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
expelled. You said there sent anti-Semitism in the Labour Party? | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
No, what I have said is that in 47 years in the party, in all the | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
meetings I have been n I have never heard anyone say anything | :12:34. | :12:36. | |
anti-Semitic. There is bowed to be in a party of 500,000 people. You | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
will have a handful of anti-Semites and a handful of racists. You don't | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
seem to know what is going on, within your own party, and you have | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
been a life-long member. When Vicky Kishy, when she says Jews have big | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
noses and slaughter the oppresside that semitism? -- Vicky Kirby? | :12:59. | :13:05. | |
That's anti-Semitic. You have dug out virtually every comment. All | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
from recent years. You have said you never heard anything I never H You | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
didn't know about these? When they erupted in the news, yes. I have | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
never met any of these people. Meeting them is not the issue. It is | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
what they said. When Kadim Hussein, former Labour Mayor of Bradford | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
shared a post complaining that the schools in the area only taught, Ann | :13:28. | :13:34. | |
Frank and six million zionists killed by Hitler that's not | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
anti-Semitism? That's why he has been suspended. So there is a | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
problem There is not a problem. You are talking about be a handful of | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
people in a party of 500,000. Jeremy Corbyn has moved rapidly to deal | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
with all of them. No he hasn't. He didn't want Naz Shah to be suspended | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
order Vicky Kirby. She is the one by the way who says Jews have long | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
noses and slaughter the oppressed. He met with Naz and they agreed she | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
would stand down while the investigation goes on. He called her | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
in to see him. We have hand #ye8d these things very rapidly. -- | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
handled these things. Miss Shah is a colleague and friend, also a member | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
of the Labour Party, a Bradford councillor, who has not been | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
suspended who refers to the Jewish people as zial, which you will know | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
is a racial epitit. If it is, he will be expelled. You are talking | :14:29. | :14:34. | |
about a huge investigation, virtually anything everyone has put | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
on the internet and it has been found. You have said in 47 years it | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
hasn't been a problem In 47 years I have not heard anyone say. You have | :14:43. | :14:46. | |
missed this? No, many people are new and recent members of the party who | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
joined in the big influx. 300,000 new people came N some of them are | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
bound to be... Some of these are not part of the 300. Maybe you don't see | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
anti-Semitism because you set a very high par bar for it. Afterall you | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
are the man who welcomed Yuset Al-Kari to London in 2005. Called | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
him a grossive voice. This is man who called for Jews and homosexuals | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
to be killed. Is that not anti-Semitic? No this is the man who | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
called on Muslims around the world to donate blood after the attacks of | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
9/11. When he came to London I went to him with the mosque where I heard | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
him say - no man should hit a woman and you should not discriminate | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
against homosexuals. I cannot equate whey heard him say to... He has | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
heard for Jews to be killed. You embraced him. A man who made a clear | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
aented accept itedic statement? -- anti-Semitic He made no anti-Semitic | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
statement here in London, this stuff has come out more recently.You | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
didn't know this. No, all I knew was... You didn't do due diligence | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
on him I don't investigate people.You don't worry about the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
people you may be sharing platforms. You talk about women, he also said | :16:04. | :16:10. | |
"To be be a solved from guilt a rained woman must have shown good | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
conduct." None of with that was what he said in my presence. Hitler was | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
kind to dogs He advocated at the mosque no Muslim should hit his | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
wife. You didn't know that he said Jews should be killed. He didn't say | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
anything like that at City Hall or the renalpents park mosque. There | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
are now 11 MPs calling for you to be suspended from the Labour Party. | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
-- from the You are under some pressure | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
this mornings aren't you? I have said what I believe to be | :16:48. | :16:58. | |
true, that Naz Shah is not anti-Semitic. She made remarks, but | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
that does not make her an anti-Semite. There was a | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
confrontation between you and John Mann. We can show you a bit of that. | :17:10. | :17:18. | |
You are a Nazi apologist! You are rewriting history! Go back and check | :17:19. | :17:28. | |
what Hitler did! You have obviously never heard of Mein Kampf! Have you | :17:29. | :17:40. | |
never read it? From 1932. I had been a journalist since 1973 and I have | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
never heard an MP calling a fellow MP a Nazi. A Nazi apologist. A | :17:47. | :17:54. | |
Labour MP to pay former mayor of London and former Labour MP and | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
Labour activist, chair of a Commission, Nazi apologist. He went | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
completely over the top. I was doing a radio interview at the time and he | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
was shouting, I am a racist, anti-Semitic. I have had that with | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
John Mann before. Screening a couple of weeks ago I was a bigot down the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
phone. It does not worry you these Labour members, many of them in the | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
mainstream, not Jo hold Blairite enemies, that they see an apologist | :18:24. | :18:30. | |
for people making anti-Semitic statements in your party. I am not | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
an apologist for anybody making anti-Semitic statements and they | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
will be expelled from the party if they are doing but do not confuse | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
that with criticising the Israeli government. It is not criticism of | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
the Israeli government policies for a member to say Hitler was one of | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
the greatest people in history and juice... They will be expelled from | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
the party and that process has started. Can you continue as head of | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
the foreign policy Commission, at given everything that has been said? | :19:09. | :19:15. | |
These things -- these things dominate the news and people, down | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
when they check what you have said. I am sure a lot of people have had | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
phone calls from the Daily Mail, and when they talk to me, that is not | :19:25. | :19:31. | |
what I am saying. We will leave Nazi -- we will leave Naz Shah to be | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
investigated and if she is not found to be innocent, she will be | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
expelled. Chris Ryan, the Labour shadow Leader of the House has said | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
this. In Parliament today, he said anti-Semitism is wrong, and of | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
story, I am tired of people trying to expel it away and, yes, I am | :19:53. | :20:01. | |
talking to you, Ken Livingstone. He should check my record. We worked | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
with Jewish groups to get across to our children the scandal of the | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
Holocaust and the groups challenging anti-Semitism and I had a very good | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
working relationship with the Jewish community. You are found to have | :20:15. | :20:17. | |
brought disrespect to your office when you like and a Jewish | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
journalist to a concentration camp guard. I cannot tell a journalist, | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
whether they Jewish or, whatever, but if he is chasing me at night and | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
barking questions at me, you might be rude to them and some people | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
might hit them. He said he was just doing his job. You were found to not | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
be doing your job, the enquiry found you had brought disrespect to your | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
office. We went to the High Court and the judge opened his judgment by | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
saying, I hope nobody here will suggest Mr Livingstone is | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
anti-Semitic and we won the case. What you make of this? I understood | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
the reason why it Labour MPs were calling for you to resign was not | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
because she defended Naz Shah but it because you reportedly said | :21:07. | :21:11. | |
something about Hitler's approach to Zionism in the 1930s, is that right? | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
He did not speak does she did not win the election but became the | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
largest party in 1932, his policy was not to kill Jews to deport them | :21:21. | :21:27. | |
to Israel. I am shocked, in all my years of politics, I have never seen | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
this perverse logic which throws Hitler and rewriting Hitler -- | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
history into a sensitive debate. What is this is to talk about Hitler | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
and your views of his approach designers given what happened and | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
given the sensitivities around the Jewish community here and around the | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
world. Of course everybody defends a person's right to be critical of the | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
Israeli government and my party, we have had issues. I have had to | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
suspend people. You suspended one for three months. He said many awful | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
things. The point is there is something, this was said last night, | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
there is something on parts of the left in British politics that enters | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
into an incredibly intellectual retorted justification to link | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Hitler and modern politics. Your colleagues think you are part of | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
that. The simple truth, that was Hitler -- that was Hitler's policy | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
when he first came to power, the move Germany's Jews to Israel. So | :22:32. | :22:38. | |
that is all right? No, I denounced that. Why raise the point? I was | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
interviewed and you have known me not to answer a question. I do not | :22:44. | :22:53. | |
understand. I1940, Adolf Eichmann wanted to forcibly remove him to | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
Madagascar and now we have a Labour MPs saying he should be forcibly | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
removed to America, I do not understand the point. I was asked a | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
question and I answered it, you have never known me not to. That was | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
Hitler's bowl -- policy in 1932 when he came to power. You are a | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
household name and people know you in the country and you are part of | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
mainstream politics. I never thought I would see the day well-known | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
politicians would rake over Hitler's views in a way that people would | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
simply not understand. Things, they are either historically true or not. | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
That is one reason I pursued my policies because I do study history | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
because if you do, you can avoid making the same mistakes again. | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
You're also a politician responsible for choosing your words carefully | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
and not entering this weird and contorted view that allows you to | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
talk about Hitler in the same breath as the Jewish community in Britain. | :23:48. | :23:56. | |
It is extraordinary. What about political comparisons, is that not | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
the problem? Why do you use the Holocaust is a political comparison | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
to highlight your objects and to be Israeli government? That is what | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
offends people. My objection to the Israeli government, for nearly 70 | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
years, Palestinians stock, why use the Holocaust and hip to underline | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
that point? -- Palestinians. I make no point between the current Israeli | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
policy and the Holocaust and Hitler, was asked the question in an | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
interview. If you say, was it true we were invaded by the Normans in | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
1066, I would say, yes, that is true. I will not avoid the truth. | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
We're joined now by the Labour MP John Mann. | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
You have seen them having a confrontation earlier. We have been | :24:42. | :24:47. | |
speaking to Ken Livingstone and we showed your remarks, he says you are | :24:48. | :24:50. | |
over the top calling him a Nazi apologist. He is a Nazi apologist | :24:51. | :24:57. | |
and he is a worse historian than he is a politician. Factually | :24:58. | :25:00. | |
inaccurate. He should read Mein Kampf, by Hitler. He should study | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
what the Nazi state including what Hitler did when he came to power in | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
1993 and the events of that year and he should see what the first and | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
second and third thing that Nazi regime did and who it targeted and | :25:15. | :25:20. | |
why. He should look at what he and his leaders said about Zionism. And | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
he should reconsider why he has said these hugely offensive and grotesque | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
remarks. The timing is calculated. And offensive as well. He should not | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
be sat on Labour's National Executive Committee, he should be | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
suspended today. What do you say to that? I simply say, go back and | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
check, is what I said true or not? The BBC have a huge team of | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
researchers and it would take a couple of hours to go back. What is | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
the point? I was asked a question and I answered it. In 41 years since | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
winning my first election, 45 years, I have never lied. I do not think it | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
is entirely historically accurate because they had already started | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
attacking the Jews when he came to power. It was not an attack to say | :26:12. | :26:18. | |
he would deport all the Jews. You seem to be implying he was not such | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
a bad guy because he just wanted to deport them and he just went wrong | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
later on. People will think this is unbelievable. He was a monster from | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
start to finish, it is simply the historical fact that his policy | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
initially was to send Germany's Jews to Israel and there were private | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
meetings between Zionism and Hitler's government that were kept | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
confidential when they had a dialogue about whether to do that. | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
Do you think Ken Livingstone is anti-Semitic? Yes, he is and his | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
rewriting of history. He is factually wrong. Hitler was not a | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
Zionist. He blocked any attempt to get Jews into what was then | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
Palestine. And the reason he did so and he said so and it was expressed, | :27:07. | :27:12. | |
was because a Zionist state would be an international Jewish conspiracy | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
and a base for it. He said it in Mein Kampf and it was said by his | :27:18. | :27:23. | |
foreign Minister who specified that in great detail in 1937, outlining | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
why they were not prepared to allow Jews they wanted to get rid of the | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
leave to go to what was then Palestine because it would have | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
created a power base for an international Jewish conspiracy. | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
Hitler was not a Zionist. And to suggest so is so grotesque. It is | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
calculatedly offensive. I think you have lost it, Mr Livingstone, I | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
think you need help. It is a deliberate calculated attempt to | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
cause problems and to stir up hatred. What you on at the moment? | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
You should certainly not be on Labour's National Executive! Do you | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
understand why those remarks, you say you are telling the truth, but | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
how they would it -- would set a community and people who lived and | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
survived or died during the Holocaust? -- upset. That is not | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
true, I have not said it was a Zionist, I said his policy in 1932 | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
was to deport Jews to Israel, that does not mean I agree. You said it | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
today, do you withdraw that? I said that was his policy and it was | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
followed by private conversations between the Zionist leadership and | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
Hitler's government about whether to carry out that policy, he did not. | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
You are raising these points about the early 1930s at a time when the | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
party faces a crisis of anti-Semitism in its own ranks. | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
People will be baffled this is what you are doing. I am not raising | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
these points, and was planning a nice quiet morning in the garden | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
until I am descended upon by these journalists saying, is this true? I | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
would be happier to do the garden, it is a nice day out. You have been | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
here and you have answered the question is, that cannot be said of | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
all politicians. We are grateful for that. People will make up their own | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
minds about what you're saying and we will let you go back your garden. | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
John Mann, thank you. Now, what's the best way of dealing | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
with Britain's drug problem? Stricter laws, better enforcement | :29:33. | :29:34. | |
or harsher sentences perhaps? Well, our guest of the day, | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
Nick Clegg, thinks not. In government, he was | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
a big proponent of but failed to persuade his | :29:41. | :29:42. | |
Conservative cabinet colleagues that Giles has been looking | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
at the arguments. In British politics, | :29:46. | :30:00. | |
it seemed we'd all agreed that cannabis and other drugs | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
would and should be illegal. No politician who wanted office | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
was going to seriously Whenever they have, they've lost | :30:06. | :30:13. | |
and they've been told For a variety of reasons, | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
countries like Uruguay, Portugal and nearly half the States | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
of America have relaxed their laws on cannabis at least because, | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
they say, total The intense attack on prohibition | :30:25. | :30:26. | |
of cannabis over the last 30 years has led to a shift | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
in the nature of cannabis. We no longer import balanced | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
cannabis, which has a mixture of THC and cannabidiol, | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
from Morocco or Lebanon, we have tended to result | :30:41. | :30:50. | |
in home-grown cannabis, to get the maximum | :30:51. | :30:52. | |
bang for their bucks. It's a chicken and egg | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
argument about a plant. Does prohibition make | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
underground drugs far stronger, open a gateway to experimentation | :30:58. | :30:59. | |
with harder drugs? And even if that's the case, | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
now it's out there, would decriminalisation | :31:02. | :31:03. | |
or legalisation - they're means skunk, spice and other | :31:04. | :31:05. | |
synthetic replacements would simply It's rather like suggesting that | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
if we took a drug that was freely available, alcohol, | :31:12. | :31:20. | |
that people wouldn't want to drink vodka or whisky, | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
they would prefer just So the drugs genie | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
is out of the bottle. But do people who are | :31:25. | :31:31. | |
criminalised want to seek help? Does somebody with a criminal record | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
for smoking something arguably less dangerous in moderation than alcohol | :31:35. | :31:37. | |
find themselves marginalised? These are some of the arguments | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
Nick Clegg has explored in other parts of the world, | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
and others agree. Free markets in all drugs | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
would be a disaster. But where countries have | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
decriminalised the possession of drugs, we have seen often very | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
good health gains. And the classic example of course | :31:55. | :31:57. | |
is Portugal, where it realised it was economically unfeasible | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
to continue the traditional way Let's look at Colorado, | :32:01. | :32:02. | |
for instance, where they have decriminalised and | :32:03. | :32:10. | |
legalised cannabis use. Amongst 12-18 year olds being | :32:11. | :32:12. | |
randomly tested in high schools, we used to see about 5.6% of those | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
young people testing So the drugs genie | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
is out of the bottle. Now it's up to 57% | :32:21. | :32:34. | |
since legalisation. But trading drugs initiatives aside, | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
there is one problem that has always pushed drugs use, | :32:37. | :32:38. | |
especially cannabis, You have a lot more people | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
who wouldn't have developed psychosis, schizophrenia-like | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
condition, if they hadn't And the trouble is that a good | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
proportion of them are so dependent I rang a drug addict | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
friend of mine who's in recovery and I said, | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
Jamie, what do you think He said, well, if you legalise | :32:54. | :32:55. | |
drugs, send the police round, put me in handcuffs, | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
because in six months, I'd be dead. They've failed to understand | :33:03. | :33:04. | |
what addiction means to people. If you're an addict, | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
you can never get enough. For all the arguments for changing | :33:08. | :33:09. | |
things, it seems the obstacles, if you'll forgive me, | :33:10. | :33:11. | |
are as high as ever. We're joined now by the Mail | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
on Sunday Columnist Peter Hitchens. Welcome to the Daily Politics but | :33:16. | :33:25. | |
Nick Clegg you have returned from atending a UN summit in New York on | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
drug reform, it was widely panned of being something of a damp squib. | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
Disappointed? I wasn't surprised. You have such diverse opinions | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
across the world so you have nations like Asia and China, Asian countries | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
that want to chop people's hands off if you touch drugs and you have the | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
huge experiment in Latin America towards decriminalisation and or | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
legalisation, the film conflicted the two, so the world is quite | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
polarised in its debate. So no wonder if you bring those countries | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
together they can't agree. So nothing substantial was achieved? | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
Not much was achieved there. What is happening is the interesting thing, | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
what is happening in countries across the world who are | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
experimenting, innovating, trying to do something different to reduce the | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
harm of drugs, that's where the debate is now. Not in the UN it is | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
more at national or even local level. Do you accept that because | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
there are polarised positions, as Nick Clegg has outlined, it is very | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
difficult, then, to look at what some people would argue is the | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
sensible view of decriminalising some drugs, in ordered to reduce the | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
number of people who are actually becoming addicted to harder drugs? | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
Almost everything you have said was factually wrong there. The problem | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
with this debate is it is conducted a the a level of ignorance which is | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
positively astonishing. The biggest decriminalisation experiment | :34:47. | :34:48. | |
probably in the Western world has been conducted in this country since | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
1917 under the Misuse of Drugs Act. Cannabis has been effectively a | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
decriminalised drugs for many years. The head of Flying Squad said so in | :34:58. | :35:04. | |
1994. Lord hail school that well-known hippie instructed | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
magistrates to stop sending people to to prison for cannabis possession | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
in 1937. The number of people arrested and prosecuted has been | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
dropping like a stone in the past few years. Before then the police | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
invented something without asking Parliament, the cannabis warning, to | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
let people off. Canning business possession has been decriminalised | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
in this country. What is going on now is a well-fund the campaign, I | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
call it billionaire dope, to achieve the next stage, the marketing, | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
selling on internet, advertising and selling in shops and huge profits to | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
be made, while at the same time - this is vital, the mental health | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
risks, are enormous and Nick Clegg's party has been very rightly | :35:45. | :35:46. | |
concerned about mental health, and the way it is neglected, a huge | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
contribution to mentedal ill innocence this country is made by | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
the very drugs which he seeks to legalise. Taking the point that in | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
your view Peter hitch yins there has been a de facto... It is not my view | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
the fact are available. I can present a book to Mr Clegg, if you | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
read it, you will have to stop saying everything you say. Don't say | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
you don't get any gift on this programme. In terms of mental | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
illness, that's the big worry for people, that actually you can argue | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
for decriminalisation and we will cite statistics from countries like | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
Portugal that have shown you can then remove the barriers to help | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
addict. But a because of the nature of the skunk or the cannabis which | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
is now being dealt, you are getting increasing inspects of young people | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
suffering from schizophrenia, why is your party still pushing that? I | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
think Peter, bless him, just is on the wrong footing. Don't bless me. | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
Drugs are bad for you. Right. They cause harm. I'm a dad, I don't want | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
my kids hooked on drugs. You have to reduce the harm of drugs. What you | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
can't doe, which is Peter and other - is shou wish it away and somehow | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
think you can prohibit drugs out of existence. They have been in | :37:01. | :37:02. | |
existence for thousands of years, they will always be with us. So as a | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
society, if you want a grown-up debate you have to ask yourself why | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
the war on drugs, and the prohibitionist approach has not | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
worked and ask yourself, for instance, if you want to look at the | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
evidence, and the data, why is it that we have just had the highest | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
rate of drug-related fatalities in this country, 3,500 people, | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
drug-related deaths in 2014. Portugal, after decriminalisation, | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
and by the way, they didn't do it for some hippie instipt, they did it | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
because originally they were worried about the link between drug | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
addiction and hth HIV contamination, a spread of HIV. They have had 22 | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
drug-related fatalities. At some point people like Peter have to | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
accept that the war on drugs is not working. If something is not | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
working, I generally think you try something else. If you look at the | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
cover of the book you will find to says - the war we nevering fought. | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
Peter, can I just put to you... No, Nick Clegg is aski for an adult | :37:57. | :38:03. | |
argument. Hang on, let me put the figures to you. In Portugal - | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
because people are interested in evidence-based n Portugal the number | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
of street deaths from drug overdozes, fell, the number of new | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
HIV infections from dirty needles fell from 2,000 to 400. In | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
Washington state, the first year of legalisation, raised a lot of money, | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
too, that went into helping drug addict, but marijuana-related | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
convictions fell by 81% after the first year of decriminalisation. | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
There is a mix of figures. But everything comes down to | :38:35. | :38:36. | |
decriminalisation and legalisation. Let us concentrate on something I | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
know about and we can influence, what is going on in this country, | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
the covert, de facto, decriminalisation of cannabis in | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
this country. You need to look at the figures on the past five years | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
alone the number of arrests for cannabis possession has halved. The | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
head of Bristol police said earlier on this week they weren't bother to | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
arrest people for cannabis propossess. If you stop pretend | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
there is a savage prohibitionry war. This country isinvolved in a huge | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
decriminalisation experiment. All the things you blame on prohibition | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
are the result of this experiment about which you appear not to know, | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
all the figures are available. Some obtained by you in parliamentary | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
questions asked by you, you ought to know. If only people would discuss | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
this and let's discuss it factually. I wrote a book on this, it contains | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
the details of how this happened. Why don't you pay any attention, you | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
say you are worried about your kids... Hang on. We have run out of | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
time. If you are worried about your children you should not be pleased | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
with the way they are exposed wholly to a completely unrestrained | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
cannabis trade. Peter, hang on, let Nick Clegg answer Peter, of course | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
is correct when he is saying that there is sort of de facto | :39:49. | :39:51. | |
decriminalisation going on. Thank you. I'm going to right that down | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
and quote T It is not a remarkable discovery. . You have never said T | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
you have said a couple of years a... ALL TALK AT | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
ONCE Pietersener, you need to let him speak, it is not a monologue. | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
Let him speak. You do yourself no favours with this. I'm doing a big | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
favour. Nick Clegg I'm pointing out his views are not remarkable. Of | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
course there is de facto decriminalisation going on, the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
Chief Constable in Durham has made it clear his police officers are not | :40:25. | :40:27. | |
going to arrest people for the personal possession of cannabis. On | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
that narrow point I agree, let's have honesty decriminalisation is | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
happening. What people doesn't address is that you have this sort | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
of legal twilight world where it is happening in practice but it is not | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
recognised in law, at the same time, it is the criminal gangs who | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
nonetheless continue to profit from it all. My question is - to what - | :40:49. | :40:56. | |
at what point is criminality, mass criminality the answer to drugs and | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
the what were that they do to individuals? I have never understood | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
why anyone think that is letting criminals run this industry is the | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
best way to protect youngsters. Because they have no interest in | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
protecting youngsters whatsoever. So let cynical businessman run t like | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
they ran the tobacco industry. Thank you. | :41:16. | :41:18. | |
A quiet day today. So the Prime Minister has today | :41:19. | :41:33. | |
joined forces with the former General Secretary of the TUC, | :41:34. | :41:36. | |
Brendan Barber, arguing that leaving poses a 'triple threat' | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
to workers: on jobs, But this morning, in the Commons, | :41:39. | :41:40. | |
eurosceptic Conservative MP Bernard Jenkin claimed | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
that the government had done a dirty deal over the Trade Union Bill, | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
watering it down in exchange for Union backing - and cash - | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
for the 'Remain' campaign. It has been confirmed to me, | :41:50. | :41:51. | |
through more than two independent sources, | :41:52. | :41:54. | |
Number Ten instructed these concessions to be made, | :41:55. | :41:55. | |
after the discussions This being true, would amount | :41:56. | :41:57. | |
to the sale of Government policy This wreaks of the same | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
as "cash for questions". This shows this Government really | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
is at the rotten heart We're joined now by Patrick Minford, | :42:07. | :42:08. | |
one of eight economists in favour of Britain leaving | :42:09. | :42:17. | |
the European Union, who have said this morning that quitting | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
the single market would boost national income and raise | :42:21. | :42:22. | |
living standards. Would it not be fair to say when we | :42:23. | :42:45. | |
have the IMF, EECD, the World Bank, Treasury, IMS, all saying that... | :42:46. | :42:47. | |
That you represent a perfectly distinguish group of economists, you | :42:48. | :42:50. | |
are outliars on this debate? When you are say we are outlayers, it is | :42:51. | :42:53. | |
an impressive list but all Her Majesty's Government's friends which | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
have been lined up to pitch in and how many have done any work on this? | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
What we have done, is a lot of work on this, ape the glaring kind of | :43:03. | :43:06. | |
hole in the modelling of the Government, in a nutshell, is that | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
they have assumed we leave the tariffs of the EU in tact when we | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
leave. Our point is this is crazy because the big gain from leaving | :43:16. | :43:20. | |
the EU is to get rid of tariffs and go to unilateral free trade. That's | :43:21. | :43:26. | |
the option. When you do that you unleash a dynamic of falling price, | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
food prices for the poor, very important. Manufacturing prices. | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
These are raised 20% by EU protectionism. Let me unpick that. | :43:34. | :43:50. | |
Because that's interesting. First of all, does | :43:51. | :46:02. | |
Our consumers are paying for it. All of these bodies you've spoken about | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
have not looked to these point. The assumed wittingly carry on imposing | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
the common external tariff on everybody outside. The entire point | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
of leaving the EU is to gain freedom over our commercial policy, our | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
trade barriers and move to free trade. Nick Clegg? I am perplexed. | :46:23. | :46:30. | |
Is there any guest I will agree with? I didn't realise that was the | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
exercise. I hear to disagree with everyone? I am perplexed because the | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
single market is created by your former boss, Margaret Thatcher. If | :46:45. | :46:48. | |
you pull out of it, but you just said you would. And then abide by | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
WTO, it would absolutely hammer British export manufacturing, | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
700,000 people working in the car many factoring industry in this | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
country would suddenly faced 10% tariffs, the farming community would | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
have 30% tariffs, the benchmark one Gisby kebab. You would have a very | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
detrimental effect on manufacturing, yet the rest of our economy, so | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
important to services. Would be a lot out of the actors we need to | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
single market. I find it very curious free to do. You must read | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
our report for the full answer but basically the single market does not | :47:24. | :47:28. | |
apply much to services yet. Leslie that on one side because it's not | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
that it is not complete. So we leave that on one side and it's small | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
potatoes in this argument. That is the answer to your last point. On | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
the first point, what you forget, who pays for all of this protection? | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
The answer is the British consumer. In addition, the British consumer | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
pays for higher prices, for German and French partners and German and | :47:55. | :48:01. | |
French manufacturers. The British Digital carries an enormous load. | :48:02. | :48:06. | |
For you see dust bodies are wiped out his element, they have forgotten | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
that when we leave, the best policy is to get rid of all of this. Every | :48:12. | :48:18. | |
first year student in those that free trade dominates protectionism. | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
What the Treasury in their wisdom have neglected is that this move to | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
free trade is beneficial to the British economy. You were talking | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
about unilateral free trade, saying we should take with all of our | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
tariffs, even if other countries keep their tariffs against us. | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
Exactly. One of the things we make in our report is that trade | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
agreements, which everyone is banging on about, have no effect on | :48:46. | :48:49. | |
our welfare and trade. They divert trade, they do not affect the total | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
of trade. This talk about trade agreements which Nick and his | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
friends are banging on about is irrelevant. What matters is our | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
tariffs because we are a small the world market. What we can influence | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
is the price are consumers pay, and that is what we focus on. With all | :49:05. | :49:10. | |
of these August bodies and great men like Nick have not looked at this. | :49:11. | :49:17. | |
Where can I view as read about it? There is a pamphlet on our website. | :49:18. | :49:28. | |
Thank you. Our poor children being let down by poor teaching? A report | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
from the commission on inequality in education and the social market | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
foundation, which is chaired by our guest of the day, Nick Clegg, says | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
disadvantaged children are more likely to have less experienced | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
teachers with fewer qualifications in more affluent ones. Adam has been | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
asking people here in London to speak about the teachers who had a | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
big impact on them. Who's your favourite and why? A man called Mr | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
Rheingold, who was an ex-prisoner of war, fantastic teacher. And | :49:59. | :50:05. | |
stimulated thoughts, ideas, and everything. I was always bottle of | :50:06. | :50:11. | |
the class because I never listened. Never did any homework, and it was | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
the maths teacher. I was always quite good at maths and she took me | :50:15. | :50:19. | |
under the wing as she listened and I went up the class. That was a | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
favourite. Mr locum for my English teacher. He just made everything | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
fun. Is that the most important thing? Yes, because if you have fun | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
while learning your reserved information better and learn to | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
enjoy it more. He was yours? I didn't really like any of my | :50:40. | :50:47. | |
teachers. At school? Mrs Hirst, English teacher, fantastic. Gave me | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
a love of literature, brilliant. Stayed with me for my entire life. | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
Do you think teachers can be taught how to be good? No, it would have to | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
be Mr Farrell because he made economic relative and quite fun. | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
Have you been using economic knowledge in the last few years? I'm | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
a trainee accountant, so yes. You only Everything! I wouldn't go that | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
far but I do treat him to the odd pint when I go back. You start out | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
with him? Every Christmas. Who was your favourite teacher was like Ms | :51:25. | :51:33. | |
Holden, the first time I ever liked will go up at conferences Lien the | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
return of the Jedi. And she was a teacher. We are joined by the Vice | :51:38. | :51:42. | |
the University. Nick Clegg Comey said this research of disadvantaged | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
pupils get a grand slam of poor teaching. The research done by the | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
social market foundation and a data lad that look at the latest facts | :51:54. | :52:01. | |
and figures is that schools, catering for higher numbers of | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
children and free school meals, which is the best if somewhat | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
approximate way of doing it. It's the best measure of disadvantage, | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
they tend to have teachers with law or no qualifications. Ohio numbers | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
of teachers with low or no qualifications. Teachers without | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
degrees in subjects are higher numbers of teachers without degrees | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
in the subject they are teaching and higher turnover of teachers. For | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
that reason a lower number of experienced. Those combined to | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
create, despite the good efforts of the teachers there, lower quality | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
teaching. This is long established that of all the things that affect a | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
Chad Dawson at education, curriculum, class sizes, if it is | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
called an academy or not. The quality of teaching remains at the | :52:49. | :52:56. | |
most important thing. As we progress through this year along commission | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
and peel away the different layers of the problem, it appears that the | :53:00. | :53:05. | |
qualifications and longevity and experience of teachers in the | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
classroom and schools need the most of their qualified teachers. It's | :53:10. | :53:17. | |
the wrong way around, I understand. Having teachers who are qualified in | :53:18. | :53:20. | |
the subject they are teaching, they should have good degrees or | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
professional qualifications in that area. I was lucky when I was at | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
school that my teachers had honours degrees in the areas they were | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
teaching. Is it your arguments they also need a postgraduate certificate | :53:34. | :53:36. | |
of education that they need to be qualified not just in their subject, | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
but also as teachers? I think this is where can I do assure making to | :53:43. | :53:45. | |
speak about this more expertly, the section defines the real because you | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
can say I have a brilliant history teacher who never had qualified | :53:53. | :53:55. | |
teacher status and they were the most inspiring teacher ever. That | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
might be true and I'm sure there are lots of cases like that, but the | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
general principle appears and the evidence is pretty overwhelming for | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
it, that having a qualified teacher status does raise the standard and | :54:07. | :54:09. | |
quality of teaching in the classroom. Let me put that point | :54:10. | :54:14. | |
Anthony. Teaching is a profession, you characters page up and thing you | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
can do it because you are well taught. I think Nick and the | :54:18. | :54:21. | |
commission right to put a spotlight on teaching in the most deprived | :54:22. | :54:29. | |
areas where you do need to have the best possible teachers and that | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
stability that Nix speaks about because continuity, known faces and | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
contrast and families as well. What about this qualified teaching status | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
was not differ on that because qualified matters but you can do it | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
the job. I wouldn't want to leave so many gaps in the King as people | :54:46. | :54:52. | |
think an entirely out from my life that makes entire year out from my | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
life, learning on the job does work. He said teaching as a profession. | :54:56. | :55:02. | |
Learning on the job is a trade. That is what journalists do. We are a | :55:03. | :55:05. | |
trade not a profession, learn on the job. What you just described is what | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
traders, a profession get a qualification that makes, a | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
profession get a qualification. It is different but it's not planned | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
internet. You learn best, I did that year out, learned best from being in | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
schools where as part of that there was lots of training in the school. | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
What really helped me to learn how to teach as far as I can was to see | :55:35. | :55:42. | |
other people teach and there's no alternative to getting in front of | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
people. It is not either or. Professional qualifications involve | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
on-the-job training. You are quite right. And if you do ask new | :55:55. | :56:01. | |
teachers, one wonderful thing is you have lots of newly qualified | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
teachers who actively want to go to the schools with the highest number | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
of challenges. What goes wrong, they do not stay for some reason. And one | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
of the things they say is that what they want most is a more experienced | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
teacher in that same subject. To help them plan classes and so on. | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
That is something some schools and Academies trust stew but it needs to | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
be done on a more widespread scale and we should consider whether we | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
pay them. I think I could walk into Nick's old school and teach a class | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
on political science or economic some. Without training. For a little | :56:45. | :56:51. | |
bit, at least. It would be much more difficult to go into a difficult | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
school and teach subjects without advice on how to handle these | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
children who have got all sorts of problems. But it is seeing the | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
really gritty experienced teachers doing it, seeing the real-life | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
interactions and seemed you do it, Nick talking about men touring | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
important things. There is something different about teaching, you have | :57:17. | :57:21. | |
to do it on the job. Trainee doctors get medical tuition and they go into | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
the water. The other key thing is leadership, if you get great | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
leadership, so we are setting up a leadership college because nothing | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
matters more than a headship. Then the teachers whilst an and they will | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
attract the best quality and retain them. You both agree on that, and | :57:39. | :57:45. | |
where can we see this report? On the Social Market Foundation website. | :57:46. | :57:46. | |
Thank you. Nick Clegg has talked his way out of | :57:47. | :57:55. | |
having his knowledge tested on the late Prince. Can you remember the | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
question for our quiz of the day. There's just time before we go | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. As we've been hearing, | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
Nick Clegg is a big music fan. But which '80s popstar did | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
he dress up as when he was Was it - a) Mick Jagger, | :58:15. | :58:16. | |
b) David Bowie, c) Freddie Mercury, Ziggy Stardust. We have a picture. | :58:17. | :58:26. | |
Thank you for the picture of David Bowie, I was going to say! It could | :58:27. | :58:32. | |
be anybody. That is very embarrassing, thank you very much. | :58:33. | :58:34. | |
Good job it is not late-night television. | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
And I will be on BBC One for This Week with Shelagh Fogarty, | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
Anne McElvoy, historian Susanah Lipsscomb, Michael Portillo, | :58:44. | :58:45. | |
Alan Johnson, Miranda Green and John Nicolson, from 11:45 | :58:46. | :58:47. | |
And I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big | :58:48. | :58:56. |