03/05/2016 Daily Politics


03/05/2016

Jo Coburn is joined by Nigel Farage to discuss Ukip's prospects in the local elections and the ongoing row over claims of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:49.

More Labour members and councillors are suspended over

:00:50.:00:51.

Can Jeremy Corbyn stem the flow of negative headlines for the party

:00:52.:00:55.

It's supposed to turn Generation Rent into Generation Own

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- but the Government's Housing Bill's been changed 13

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times in the Lords - will the radical reforms survive?

:01:05.:01:07.

Thousands of job losses are threatened at the Port

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Talbot steel works - how will the uncertainty affect

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Thursday's elections to the Welsh Assembly?

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And campaigners say they're just letting their kids be kids.

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But are parents helping them skip school tests today

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All that in the next hour, and with us someone who's not

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In fact, like the Westminster class swot, he's been putting in extra

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hours on our TV screens in recent days, Ukip leader Nigel

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We'll not be asking Nigel about the pronunciation

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of his surname today - but we do want to talk

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about whether he's been spending - as the Daily Mail's alleging -

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That money's from the ?2.5 million the party receives

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You have bodyguards? Yes. Funny enough I'm the only political

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leader, or I guess politician of prominence in the UK, who gets zero

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help from the taxpayer, zero help from the authorities in this

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country. We have asked. Particularly after last April when my family were

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attacked on a Sunday lunchtime, which was pretty nasty. But where do

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the EU funds come from? Let's just get this straight. I don't get any

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help at all. Without it I wouldn't be here. The hard left have been so

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vicious and so nasty. What we do... After this show I go down to street

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canvas in south Wales, I do a public event tonight, I go to Lincolnshire

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this evening to do the same again tomorrow. I have to have people

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drive me and look after me, that's reasonable. We fund all of that

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through private donations. I've never used a penny of my European

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allowances, which I get to employ staff to do security. This

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ridiculous story... Why is it ridiculous? Because it's not me,

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it's about organising public events and having security around them. But

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you have bodyguards everyday? Funded through private subscription because

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the authorities in this country or the Government in this country won't

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give me any help. So you don't use any of that money from that fund to

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the EU group that you are head of? No, this story was about public

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events in this country. So not your personal bodyguards? We are the only

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party of any group that hold genuine public events and you have to have

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security. How much does that cost? It can be expensive, it depends

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where the event is. You can see why the charge of hypocrisy can be put

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to you? No, hang on! You have spend your whole political career claiming

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that the EU is a waste of taxpayers's money and waste it on

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spurious things. People might say you spending it on bodyguards even

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for public events is the same thing. I've spent many years to...

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Hopefully we will vote for Brexit, I will be redundant and there will be

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no need. We will come to that later on, whether you will be of -- out of

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a job. I'm a turkey who will happily vote for Christmas.

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Now, Jeremy Corbyn's insisted that he acted swiftly to suspend

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Naz Shah and then Ken Livingstone after his comments on this and other

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But the story about anti-Semitism in the Labour Party refuses to go

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away, with reports in this morning's papers that as many as 50

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Labour Party members have been suspended.

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Jeremy Corbyn was trying - but failing - to change the subject

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this morning at a poster launch supporting the party's

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campaign for the local elections on Thursday.

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We're not going to lose seats. We are looking to gain seats where we

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can. These elections are being fought on the issues of every

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different community around the country and fought on the record of

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what this government is about. The anti-Semitic issue is being dealt

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with by the head of a commission on this, Shami chakra

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-- anyone caught making anti-Semitic remarks is immediately suspended

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pending investigation. Let's speak to Tom Newton Dunn

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of the Sun, and Kevin Welcome to both of you on this fine

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sunny day. Tom, Jeremy Corbyn says Labour will not lose ground in the

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elections and the party are looking to make games. You would hope that

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would be what an opposition leader would say. All polls point

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otherwise. Is he burying his head in the sand? I think he's making a very

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dangerous point indeed because he is a hostage to fortune. If Labour

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don't make games, that is the clip people will replay to say he's got

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it wrong. That is what the rebels are hoping to do come Friday or

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Saturday. Their quiet at the moment but believe you me they will be all

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over channels and programmes like yours to save Corbyn has failed by

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his own targets. By his own estimate he has not made any progress and we

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are going quits, if of course the party does not make any games. The

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best thing in politics to do is underplay and overdeliver. If you do

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if the other way round, you set yourself up for a fall. You're

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laughing, Kevin Maguire. Jeremy Corbyn will obviously be asked about

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the crisis that some people see at the anti-Semitism crisis in the

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party. He says it's been dealt with but the announcement of an inquiry

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suggests otherwise? He was laughing at the suggestion of moderates who

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seem hell-bent on toppling him within the party. I think there's

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nothing moderate about that group, arranged possibly but not moderate.

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The figure of 50 people supposedly suspended for anti-Semitism or

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racism over the last two months, reporting by the Daily Telegraph,

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has been denied by the Labour Party, which says this figure is 16 in the

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time since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader. But Jeremy Corbyn has a

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problem, certainly perception, there are some changes where you would

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worry about the fact that an inquiry has been announced. Is this on top

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of a previous inquiry would suggest that he knows that too and he can't

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shake off the row at the moment. His opponents don't want him to and it

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means that any other argument he has about the economy, the NHS or

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whatever, is very difficult for him. Difficult, Kevin Maguire, because he

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didn't deal with it quickly enough despite his supporters saying he

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did? I think he did deal with it quite quickly. Naz Shah, there was

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an argument that he should have suspended her earlier, on the first

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day. But the other one, it did not do Labour is any good but it was

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kind of compulsive viewing, he was on a trip up north, he was going to

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lay a wreath at a memorial and he did it in a couple of hours. When

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you consider he and Ken Livingstone go back 30 or 40 years, old comrade

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's, Ken Livingstone one of his few real vocal supporters, although I

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accept what Cabinet Minister Alan Johnson says, but nevertheless you

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have to find out what has happened. Then do you just suspend Ken

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Livingstone or do you suspend Mann too? He acted pretty quickly and I

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think the criticism on the Ken Livingstone case is not fair. Let's

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talk about the moderates. Or the crazed loons as Kevin has just

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described them! You can pick your description... Senior Labour MPs

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believe they have chosen Margaret Hodge to stand as a stalking horse

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against Jeremy Corbyn to spark a leadership contest. You can see them

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walking around behind us now. I don't think many of them are in the

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Shadow Cabinet although there are one or two in the Shadow Cabinet

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certainly happily talking to the plotters. I can't possibly name

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them, as you understand, but they are senior people, real people will

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stop my bet is that now they almost certainly will. There seems to be a

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shift change in the parliamentary party that two or three months ago

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was, well, we shouldn't do that because we won't win and that will

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just embolden Jeremy Corbyn's leadership, if he wins a second

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leadership contest, we're not going to be able to challenge him for

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years. They are now thinking we are morally bound to challenge him no

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matter what, simply because that is our duty, we have to keep this fight

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going and we have to keep on trying to question him. You hang around the

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same sort of places as Tom, Kevin, around Westminster, is this clue

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about to happen after the local elections? -- is this coup? I don't

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know, if it does I think it would be after the local elections, June 23.

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But there is no doubt there is a sizeable minority, whether you count

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them in dozens or scores, who are hell-bent on toppling Jeremy Corbyn.

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Most of the Parliamentary party Labour MPs are, I would say

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disgruntled, believing it would be wrong to try to topple him now and

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he should be allowed to succeed or fail on his own terms. They also

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know that if they tried to keep Jeremy Corbyn or perhaps John

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McDonald off the ballot in a Labour should -- Labour leadership

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election, the party would be ungovernable, you would be excluding

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the members. I noticed Margaret Hodge has been silent and I noticed

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other names touted around. There were some cat flaps in John-- in

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Tom's story... She would probably like to be put forward, she will do

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it. She holed out of the London mayoral race. There is a group of

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Labour MPs whose sole political reason for existing now is getting

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rid of Corbyn. Tom, you were nodding, just very brave Lee, that

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the party would be ungovernable if there was an attempt to keep Jeremy

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Corbyn or John McDonald off the ballot paper? That's right because I

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as much as they plot, and they really are plotting, they still have

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this in transient problem where the membership is still overwhelmingly

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in support of Jeremy Corbyn. You've got a rock going up against a hard

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place. There are also reports that Alan Johnson, famous former Home

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Secretary, the darling of the Labour Party, was also approached to be the

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stalking horse and has refused. It is not everybody on the moderate

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side, or the arranged lunatic side as Mr Maguire would have them, who

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thinks it is the right thing right now. Both of you will be kept busy!

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Don't look too gleeful, both of you! Now, amongst at least three

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Labour Party councillors who were suspended from the party

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yesterday is the Burnley councillor Shah Hussain,

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who joins us now from Blackburn. Shah Hussain, what do you mean by

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your tweet that you should see what the rest of the world thinks about

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your tweet? Right, firstly I'm quite

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disappointed that the tweet has come out now in 2016. It was written

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juror in 2014, during the Gaza crisis, in response to another

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footballer making a comment about killing of children in Gaza --

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killing off children in Gaza. It was written then and now it's come out,

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I'm assuming it's come out because of political reasons... But do you

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still believe that sentiment about comparing Israel and what the

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Israeli government is doing in your mind to children in Gaza with what

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Hitler did when Hitler murdered 6 million

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Jews and political opponents. What I was saying is that what happened in

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Gaza can be made compatible to what happened to the Jews. Do you think

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it's appropriate in your role as a counsellor to exact comparison? I

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was merely stating about events that happened. But do you think it was

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appropriate? It was appropriate in 2014 when the conflict between

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Israelis and Palestinians were taking place and innocent children

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were losing their lives. Yes, at that time... You made that

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historical comparison with Hitler and where 6 million Jews were

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murdered, you would say that to an Israeli? I was stating at that time

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what was happening within Gaza. What did you mean by your tweet about we

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will see what the rest of the world thinks. What does the rest of the

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world think? In terms of what? In terms of what was happening in Gaza

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at that time? There was an outcry within the rest of the world about

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what was happening within Gaza. That's what I meant.

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What do you think about your suspension from the Labour Party? It

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is unfortunate, that in the present climate, the witchhunt that is going

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on, I thought it was expected that it would happen. You did expect it?

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Will you fight the suspension? Obviously. In your mind, is it

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appropriate for any politician when criticising regimes they dislike,

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for example politicians have said they dislike Saudi or Pakistan or

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Egypt or Syria, is it also fair to say it is the fault of the people

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who live in those countries? Like I said, I was merely stating what was

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happening in 2014. It is unfortunate that I happen to be a Muslim

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Council, therefore my comments have been taken out of context and as

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such they have been censored. What context have they been taken out of?

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Why am I on this television show today, trying to explain comments

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made in 2014? Are you saying you don't agree with those comments now?

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Are you saying that if I was not a Muslim councillor I would still be

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here? If you insert a different words into some of the tweet, if you

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link the actions of a Syrian or Egyptian government with the rights

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and lives of Arabs generally, would that be appropriate, even in 2014,

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or today? If dictators were killing those people, yes. So how would you

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fight your suspension from the Labour Party? That is to discuss

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with my colleagues and so on. I was merely here trying to state as to

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why that a tweet that has made in 2014 has become relevant in 2016. Is

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it because of a political agenda that is happening? Is it because a

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Muslim councillor, and, as such, those comments have been taken into

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that context? You think you are being unfairly targeted, you do not

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think there is anything wrong with those comments? You told the press

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Association that you would bite the suspension and added that if Jewish

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people found your comparison of what Hitler did to the Jews with what is

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happening in Gaza offensive, they had to think about what is happening

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in the rest of the world. I said that what was happening in 2014 in

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Gaza and Palestine can be comparable to what happened to European Jews in

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World War II. Shah Hussain, in the studio we have Keith Vaz, the Labour

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MP who chairs the Home Affairs Select Committee, what do you think

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about what he is saying, that it is appropriate to make that comparison?

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I personally believe it is totally inappropriate, but I will not

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discuss his case, because I sit on the National Executive Committee and

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may have to deal with his case, so I will not talk about particular

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cases, but I will talk about an attitude. I think Jeremy Corbyn was

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absolutely right to set up this inquiry. There needs to be a full

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inquiry into this issue. There is a problem within the party which needs

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to be addressed. To that that Shami Chakrabarti in charge is right, you

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cannot tell her what to do. -- to put Shami Chakrabarti in charge. I

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spoke to her, I do nothing to McCrimmon 's will be enough. I think

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she will have to do an interim report. Judging by the number of

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e-mails that I get on the issue of racism, I think she will want to

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examine those as well. Lots of people will want to give evidence.

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The Home Affairs Select Committee has its own investigation into

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anti-Semitism. You would denounce this tweet, even if made at the

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height of the Gaza conflict? Absolutely, there is no room for

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anti-Semitism or racism in the Labour Party. I have been a member

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for four decades and would not be a member of a party that allowed such

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views to be tolerated. On this particular case, he will have to go

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through a process and put his views forward. I will not talk about him,

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I might be sitting on his case, but I will say that those views

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expressed by anyone repugnant and should not be accepted and should be

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condemned absolutely. Shah Hussain, what is your reaction? I made a

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tweet in 2014, in response to a tweet done by a footballer saying,

:19:58.:20:04.

stop killing children. I merely stated what was happening in

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Palestine. I did not make an anti-Semitic comments. I believe

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that if we really wanted a debate about what is happening within

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Palestine, you have to get over this issue. Me being a Muslim, I feel

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that that tweet has been taken out of context. What do you say to that?

:20:29.:20:34.

Keith Vaz? We could talk forever about whether it was in or out of

:20:35.:20:39.

context, we now have an inquiry to look into this particular issue.

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Shah Hussain thinks it is a witchhunt, he thinks he is being

:20:45.:20:47.

attacked because he is a Muslim councillor. I don't think that is

:20:48.:20:52.

the case. Looking at Jeremy Corbyn peers history, where he comes from,

:20:53.:20:57.

what he has said about issues of this kind, he is not the sort of

:20:58.:21:01.

person that would lead a witchhunt. He wants a "Real. We should have a

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wider approach, look at structures and processes. Shami Chakrabarti

:21:08.:21:13.

putts inquiry will last for a long time. I was not in the country last

:21:14.:21:19.

week, it is not an excuse, but I do not think it was handled in the best

:21:20.:21:24.

way. Jeremy has pulled us back, he has this inquiry, the NEC will meet

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on the 17th of May. Shah Hussain, have you been contacted us to when

:21:33.:21:36.

you will be meeting with the National executive committee? I have

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not, but I have absolute faith in the Labour Party and its processes.

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Like he'd said, I welcome a thorough investigation into these issues. --

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Lake Keith Vaz said. In my case, I want to make it clear again, this

:21:55.:21:59.

tweet I made in 2014 was related to the Gaza conflict. You do not think

:22:00.:22:03.

it was anti-Semitic, you would say you are not anti-Semitic? The girl I

:22:04.:22:09.

merely commented on a response by a footballer to another footballer.

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But are you an anti-Semite? I am not. But I do see the issue of

:22:15.:22:23.

Palestine and Israel having a great effect on the Muslim community in

:22:24.:22:27.

Britain. When I go knocking on the doors, constituents tell me that the

:22:28.:22:36.

way the media and the governments and so on through the world... They

:22:37.:22:42.

see a different attitude towards conflict in the Middle East and

:22:43.:22:45.

conflicts elsewhere. Do you think it is fair to blame Jews in general?

:22:46.:22:52.

You are putting words into my mouth. I am asking a question. We should

:22:53.:22:58.

have a debate about what is happening, and the debate should be

:22:59.:23:04.

without being called a Semite. If you're making a statement which may

:23:05.:23:08.

not happen to be supportive of Israel. Thank you, Shah Hussain, for

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coming in. And the Labour MP Keith Vaz,

:23:12.:23:13.

who chairs the Home Affairs Select His Committee is holding an inquiry

:23:14.:23:16.

into anti-Semitism and is meeting this afternoon to consider

:23:17.:23:20.

whether one of the committee members, Naz Shah -

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who herself has been suspended from the Labour Party over suspected

:23:23.:23:24.

anti-Semitic tweets - can remain on the committee for that

:23:25.:23:26.

inquiry. She will be coming to the committee

:23:27.:23:31.

2pm and meeting with the committee and discussing it with the

:23:32.:23:33.

committee. That is what we have to wait for. She will be there, she

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will talk to the committee and a decision will be made. What is your

:23:37.:23:41.

view, should she still serve on the committee? I chair the committee, I

:23:42.:23:45.

think it is right that the committee as a whole should hear from Naz

:23:46.:23:48.

Shah, rather than give you my personal views. Chairman of

:23:49.:23:52.

selecting it is do not have the power to discipline, nor the power

:23:53.:23:59.

to remove -- chairman of select committees. She could still remain

:24:00.:24:02.

on the committee, while suspended from the Labour Party? It is an

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all-party committee, people are elected. She will come. I spoke to

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her last week, she is coming out 2pm to talk to the committee and a

:24:13.:24:15.

decision will be made today. Could she be called as a witness, given

:24:16.:24:25.

that it is an anti-Semitism and she has been suspended for anti-Semitic

:24:26.:24:30.

tweets? Anyone could be called, I hope we will publish today. Will Ken

:24:31.:24:36.

Livingstone be on that list? This inquiry predates the Labour Party

:24:37.:24:40.

inquiry. He might be, it depends on the committee. I do not choose all

:24:41.:24:44.

the witnesses, the committee as they whole decide. I already foresee that

:24:45.:24:51.

this will be a slightly longer inquiry than I anticipated when the

:24:52.:24:53.

senior member on the committee suggested that we hold one. I think

:24:54.:24:59.

anyone can give evidence and writing, but those who give oral

:25:00.:25:02.

evidence, we will specifically need to call. We have written to the

:25:03.:25:07.

leaders of all three parties and asked them... What impact will this

:25:08.:25:16.

have on Labour 's performance on Thursday 's elections? Of course it

:25:17.:25:20.

will have an impact, people do not like to see a disunited party. So I

:25:21.:25:25.

think Jeremy was right to try to pull something back from the slight

:25:26.:25:29.

shambles we had last week and put it on a proper process. At the end of

:25:30.:25:35.

the day people will decide on, for example, who they would like to see

:25:36.:25:39.

run London, Scotland, Wales and all the other areas. I think everyone

:25:40.:25:44.

agrees that it will have an impact. There are other things that will

:25:45.:25:50.

have an impact as well. I am sure in the city of Leicester, the recent

:25:51.:25:53.

success of my football team. And we can see you are wearing the scarf,

:25:54.:25:58.

and very loyal, as one of the city's MPs. One London assembly candidate

:25:59.:26:04.

has tweeted saying you can almost get away with offending anyone so

:26:05.:26:08.

long as they are not Jewish. How would you judge that? He is wrong to

:26:09.:26:15.

say that. I don't accept or agree with that, I hope he will have the

:26:16.:26:19.

opportunity of correcting what he has said. That cannot be right.

:26:20.:26:26.

Should he also be suspended? I don't make these decisions. How many more

:26:27.:26:35.

Mr Husseins are there? We saw him being interviewed, holy

:26:36.:26:39.

unapologetic, claiming 34-macro times that he is being victimised

:26:40.:26:43.

because he is a Muslim. When Corbyn went for the leadership, it is well

:26:44.:26:48.

known that he is very strongly pro-Palestinian, hugely critical of

:26:49.:26:53.

Israel and friendly with people who want to see Israel obliterate it. Of

:26:54.:26:57.

all those hundreds of thousands of people joined the Labour Party at

:26:58.:27:01.

three quid a pop last year, how many of those share that view? Nigel

:27:02.:27:05.

makes a very important point, but you knows from his party is that

:27:06.:27:09.

there are examples of individuals holding particular views and you

:27:10.:27:13.

take action, you have inquiries. The difference between how you and we

:27:14.:27:17.

handle it, we have handled it out of the party. You are right, when these

:27:18.:27:22.

views come forward they need to be dealt with, as you have in the past.

:27:23.:27:26.

This is Jeremy's way of dealing it, it is the right way. Nobody can tell

:27:27.:27:32.

Shami Chakrabarti what to do, she is completely independent and will say

:27:33.:27:35.

what she thinks is right. We should not be in a position where we make

:27:36.:27:40.

this decision, it has to be taken out of our hands. Nigel Farage,

:27:41.:27:43.

Keith Vaz is right, on this programme we have many times put to

:27:44.:27:48.

you very things that have been said and tweeted by Ukip members...

:27:49.:27:54.

Junior. But at the time you said they exist in every party, your

:27:55.:27:59.

party and every party. Week kick somebody from a fairly senior

:28:00.:28:01.

voluntary position not three months ago for making what we judge to be

:28:02.:28:08.

an unpleasant anti-Semitic comment -- we kicked in the Dieppe. All

:28:09.:28:10.

organisations have with this sort of thing. -- we kicked somebody out. I

:28:11.:28:18.

wonder how many Mr Husseins thereof. There has been a denial from the

:28:19.:28:23.

Labour Party that there have been 50s ended, it is about 16. It will

:28:24.:28:28.

finish higher than that. Once this can of worms is opened, people

:28:29.:28:32.

social media starts to be looked at all stop it will not go away, it

:28:33.:28:37.

will take some time. Longer than two months, I am sure. Has the Labour

:28:38.:28:44.

Party not allied it self too merge in many midlands and northern cities

:28:45.:28:49.

with sectarian politics? The Muslim vote is very, very big and many in

:28:50.:28:55.

cities. I suspect... Are you saying the Muslim community has

:28:56.:29:01.

anti-Semitic...? I saw George Galloway win the by-election in

:29:02.:29:04.

Bradford West on openly sectarian political lines. But it changed when

:29:05.:29:12.

Labour won it back. Did it? The way we look at communities is important,

:29:13.:29:17.

in the past it was the far left that used to manipulate communities in

:29:18.:29:21.

particular ways. This does not happen now, I'd believe. I think

:29:22.:29:26.

that is why it is important to look at these issues very carefully and

:29:27.:29:30.

less communities for themselves. Many people do not share the views

:29:31.:29:35.

we have heard today coming from this particular councillor, we should

:29:36.:29:39.

hear from them. Briefly, Leicester, have you been partying all night?

:29:40.:29:45.

Tottenham was 2-0 plus night, we thought we had lost, there was

:29:46.:29:48.

nobody outside the King Power Stadium. Two goals later, 2000

:29:49.:29:55.

people. It is a magnificent, multicultural city, and I think if

:29:56.:30:00.

anyone was looking for a manager, a leader of a country, then Claudio

:30:01.:30:03.

Ranieri... He will stand for party leader? He is not the stalking

:30:04.:30:07.

horse, but we are delighted. Now, the Government's housing bill

:30:08.:30:12.

is supposed to help get more young people on the housing ladder

:30:13.:30:14.

and arrest the reduction But the House of Lords has been

:30:15.:30:17.

taking a wrecking ball to the bill. This week it's back in the Commons,

:30:18.:30:23.

but in the face of widespread opposition will it look anything

:30:24.:30:26.

like it was designed to? The wide-ranging Housing

:30:27.:30:28.

and Planning Bill contains the Government's flagship

:30:29.:30:30.

Right to Buy scheme. The Government says it will allow

:30:31.:30:32.

1.3 million housing association tenants to buy their own home,

:30:33.:30:36.

but opponents argue that it is uncosted and that there is no

:30:37.:30:41.

guarantee the social housing stock The bill also contains plans

:30:42.:30:43.

to build new starter homes, worth up to ?450,000 in London,

:30:44.:30:48.

and ?250,000 in the rest of the country, leading

:30:49.:30:51.

to criticisms that they still won't But the Lords have watered down

:30:52.:30:54.

swathes of the bill, defying the Government a massive 13

:30:55.:31:02.

times on issues ranging from the thresholds for Pay to Stay,

:31:03.:31:05.

when council tenants can be charged higher rents once their income

:31:06.:31:08.

reaches a certain level, to environmental regulations

:31:09.:31:10.

on new developments. I'm joined now from outside

:31:11.:31:18.

parliament by Eileen Short of the group Defend Council Housing,

:31:19.:31:20.

they are holding Eileen, welcome to the programme.

:31:21.:31:27.

What is your issue with the government's policy? It's pouring

:31:28.:31:37.

petrol fire of what is already a pretty terrible housing situation.

:31:38.:31:39.

In the name of encouraging people to buy actually what they are doing is

:31:40.:31:44.

selling off the precious homes we've got that people can afford and

:31:45.:31:51.

pushing up rents and putting more of us into unregulated private renting.

:31:52.:31:58.

If they replaced the social housing stock, would you still have a

:31:59.:32:01.

problem with it? There's 2-macro things.

:32:02.:32:07.

-- there's two things. One is that they promised in the last few years

:32:08.:32:19.

that every home sold under Right to Buy would be replaced but it wasn't,

:32:20.:32:23.

they replaced about one in ten, so why would we believe them? Secondly,

:32:24.:32:28.

in order to finance selling off housing association homes, they are

:32:29.:32:32.

going to sell off the most valuable council homes. This is like a double

:32:33.:32:38.

whammy and those homes are in the places that people and communities

:32:39.:32:42.

need to live and they can't be replaced, in the heart of East

:32:43.:32:50.

London or where I live, in Bethnal Green. Thank you and thank you for

:32:51.:32:53.

battling against that background noise, whatever it is. We heard you,

:32:54.:32:55.

thank you. Joining me now is the Shadow Housing

:32:56.:33:00.

Minister John Healey, We've spoken about this before but

:33:01.:33:06.

there have been many more defeats since we spoke about it last, Chris.

:33:07.:33:11.

It must be time for the Government to rethink? It's very disappointing

:33:12.:33:15.

that the unelected House of Lords have tried to tamper with things

:33:16.:33:20.

that were in the party's manifesto. The Right to Buy was in the

:33:21.:33:24.

manifesto. The government is right to press on and get those things in

:33:25.:33:28.

acted. The principle was in the manifesto but not some of the detail

:33:29.:33:32.

which has now come out and that is what the House of Lords is doing,

:33:33.:33:35.

doing its job and scrutinising what they would call bad legislation.

:33:36.:33:45.

Some of these things are wrecking... They are trying to undermine the

:33:46.:33:48.

whole policy. The point of the policies to help young people in

:33:49.:33:51.

their 20s and 30s get onto the housing ladder and is some of these

:33:52.:33:56.

Amendment had been designed to reckon that. Others, something like

:33:57.:34:02.

two thirds or even three quarters of the Lords amendments have been

:34:03.:34:06.

accepted, but where those amendments are designed to undermine or

:34:07.:34:09.

frustrate what was in the manifesto, helping people onto the housing

:34:10.:34:15.

ladder, we will stand firm and stick to our guns. Do you object to the

:34:16.:34:18.

principle of housing association tenants being able to own their own

:34:19.:34:24.

homes? We've opposed the succession of the Right to Buy for council

:34:25.:34:30.

tenants, because it will go to overseas investments and buy to let

:34:31.:34:35.

landlords. Do you know that? I thought the forced sale, the funds

:34:36.:34:39.

would go to actually fund this... What this legislation is doing is

:34:40.:34:42.

forcing councils to sell the best of their homes when they become vacant

:34:43.:34:46.

to whoever they can sell them to in order to pay the money to George

:34:47.:34:50.

Osborne to fund the discount for the Right to Buy for the housing

:34:51.:34:53.

association tenants. That's why quite obviously this is going to

:34:54.:34:59.

lead to a huge loss for rental homes right across the country. The other

:35:00.:35:05.

problem with this is these so-called starter homes are going to leave

:35:06.:35:09.

many wannabe first-time buyers completely unable to afford the sort

:35:10.:35:13.

of costs that would be involved. We will come onto starter homes in just

:35:14.:35:17.

a moment but just answer the claim that the money that will come from

:35:18.:35:21.

those council homes will not go into replacing council stock, it will go

:35:22.:35:25.

into the Treasury's pockets? It's not completely true. It's a bit

:35:26.:35:31.

true? In London there will be a two for one replacement, thanks to Zac

:35:32.:35:36.

Goldsmith, every house sold in London there will be two replacement

:35:37.:35:39.

and every house sold outside London there will be a 141 placement. The

:35:40.:35:47.

legislation allows ministers to do a council levy... It will be cash

:35:48.:35:51.

going straight to George Osborne, an annual levy on councils to pay for

:35:52.:35:55.

the discount on housing association, so it is a cash grab making councils

:35:56.:36:02.

and those who need these homes pay the costs of a policy that the

:36:03.:36:05.

government itself should be paying for. But it also says that there

:36:06.:36:09.

must be a two-for-one replacement in London and a one for replacement

:36:10.:36:15.

outside. Does it matter as long as there is a replacement? It would

:36:16.:36:19.

matter a lot as long as this were a like-for-like replacement. But the

:36:20.:36:22.

replacement allows the rented council home or housing association

:36:23.:36:25.

home in London to be replaced by one of these so-called new, affordable

:36:26.:36:31.

homes that are for sale for up to ?450,000. You have to be honest in

:36:32.:36:35.

terms of what is actually being replaced. If a local authority is

:36:36.:36:38.

selling a four-bedroom council house and the money from that they'll is

:36:39.:36:42.

going to the Treasury, will there be another house of that size or two if

:36:43.:36:49.

it is in London, built in the same part of that authority? Not

:36:50.:36:52.

necessarily in the same part, but within London. I'll explain why.

:36:53.:36:57.

London is a big place. Take for examples Camden Council, I used to

:36:58.:37:01.

be a councillor for them many years ago. They have ?1 million loss

:37:02.:37:06.

Bloomsbury apartments, one of which Frank Dobson lives in, it's

:37:07.:37:09.

ridiculous that the local authority is providing supposedly social

:37:10.:37:15.

housing worth 1.5 mini and pounds is a unit to Frank Dobson, it makes

:37:16.:37:19.

sense to sell that unit and build two in its place. It just makes

:37:20.:37:25.

sense. On the starter homes scheme, this is about helping young people

:37:26.:37:28.

get onto the housing ladder, which a lot of them would like to do and

:37:29.:37:30.

it's becoming more and more difficult, rather than as many

:37:31.:37:34.

people see it, throwing money down the drain for high rent. It's not

:37:35.:37:38.

just becoming more difficult, it's becoming almost impossible for young

:37:39.:37:43.

people. A third of a million fewer people under 35 now own their own

:37:44.:37:46.

home than when David Cameron became Prime Minister. It is a good idea

:37:47.:37:51.

these starter homes but the way the government is doing it simply means

:37:52.:37:55.

it's out of the reach of many young people. In Chris's constituency of

:37:56.:38:01.

Croydon, even with this huge discount and subsidy, you're still

:38:02.:38:06.

going to need a deposit of 61,000, an annual salary of 61,000, and the

:38:07.:38:14.

average salary of someone in Croydon is 30 1000. To buy one of the

:38:15.:38:23.

starter homes in London you would need a deposit of ?98,000 and an

:38:24.:38:28.

average salary of ?78,000. If those figures were true they would be eye

:38:29.:38:31.

watering but they are not. I'm Croydon South MP and the average

:38:32.:38:37.

flat in Croydon is ?240,000 privately. Knock off the discount

:38:38.:38:42.

and that is ?190,000. You can get a 95% mortgage with help to buy, so

:38:43.:38:51.

that is a deposit of ?10,000. I think that is within the reach of

:38:52.:38:54.

most people, if they buy together as a couple as most do. I think two

:38:55.:39:01.

people earning ?26,000 with a ?10,000 deposit is a big step

:39:02.:39:04.

forward, not perfect and doesn't solve everything but it's a huge

:39:05.:39:08.

step forward and I would hope that my labour opposite numbers this

:39:09.:39:11.

afternoon support this measure to help young people onto the housing

:39:12.:39:15.

ladder. John, I'm going to have to ask you about what's going on in the

:39:16.:39:18.

Labour Party at the moment because you probably heard the reports on

:39:19.:39:21.

our programme, but reports that some members of the shadow coming at

:39:22.:39:25.

preparing to stand down after the way the leadership has dealt with

:39:26.:39:29.

anti-Semitism. Are you one of them? I'm not, and I doubt whether that is

:39:30.:39:34.

the case. For my money, what all of us need to be doing is fighting the

:39:35.:39:38.

elections this week, fighting the referendum next month and trying to

:39:39.:39:41.

win back the hearing and support from the millions of people that

:39:42.:39:45.

lost us and left us at the last election. Do you think you will make

:39:46.:39:50.

games? As far as my colleagues around the Shadow Cabinet table,

:39:51.:39:53.

that's what we're trying to do. We've heard reports that MPs are

:39:54.:39:58.

rallying around Margaret Hodge as a possible stalking horse in a

:39:59.:40:01.

leadership challenge to Jeremy Corbyn, have you heard about that?

:40:02.:40:04.

19 years in opposition and in government, I've lost count of the

:40:05.:40:12.

number of stalking horses and Kuchar opposition leaders I've come across.

:40:13.:40:16.

This is part of what turns people off politics, when the whispers in

:40:17.:40:19.

the Westminster world really make politicians seem like we're more

:40:20.:40:22.

concerned with our own problems rather than the difficulties that

:40:23.:40:27.

people face day-to-day. But if Labour perform badly on Thursday,

:40:28.:40:30.

does Jeremy Corbyn have any choice but to go? Of course he does. He's

:40:31.:40:35.

elected with a very strong mandate within the delayed a party. These

:40:36.:40:39.

elections on Thursday are going to be tough. -- within the Labour

:40:40.:40:44.

Party. It's always ebb and flow within the political cycle. There

:40:45.:40:48.

hasn't been the leader of an opposition in recent times who's

:40:49.:40:52.

actually lost seats in the first year at council elections. Any

:40:53.:40:56.

political analyst will tell you most of these seats were elected four

:40:57.:41:01.

years ago in 2012, which was a high water mark. This sounds like you're

:41:02.:41:04.

softening people up for losses in labour. Predictions are a mug's game

:41:05.:41:10.

but I've been visiting councils right across the country from

:41:11.:41:14.

Stevenage to live and can come to Plymouth, to Exeter, and we are

:41:15.:41:17.

fighting for every vote. -- from Stevenage to Plymouth. My concern is

:41:18.:41:22.

that we still have good Labour councils like those able to show

:41:23.:41:26.

people what a difference a Labour MP can make. Corbyn has predicted this

:41:27.:41:30.

morning that he will make games, is he a mug? Corbyn has said this

:41:31.:41:36.

morning we're fighting for every vote. We're coming to come onto

:41:37.:41:43.

election prospects in a moment but thank you very much.

:41:44.:41:45.

Are you ready for Super Thursday, UK style?

:41:46.:41:47.

Well, there are elections right across the UK this week -

:41:48.:41:50.

not least in Wales where, as Ellie reports, the parties

:41:51.:41:52.

are fighting for control of the Welsh Assembly.

:41:53.:41:55.

Welcome to sunny Cardiff. We all know there are Welsh assembly

:41:56.:42:00.

elections later this week and I'm here to talk to all the main parties

:42:01.:42:04.

about what they're promising the voters. The trouble is, they're all

:42:05.:42:08.

out making those promises on the campaign Trail, so I'm going to have

:42:09.:42:11.

to go to them. First stop, well, more in between

:42:12.:42:20.

stops, the current Labour First Minister Carmen Jones and as we

:42:21.:42:25.

speak we pass the steelworks at Port Talbot, a symbol of crisis that has

:42:26.:42:29.

overshadowed this campaign. It's an issue that is raised on doorsteps

:42:30.:42:35.

even in areas where steel is not the main. We've been working with the

:42:36.:42:44.

government... What people want to see is governments and different

:42:45.:42:47.

parties working together to save those jobs and that's exactly what

:42:48.:42:54.

we've done. As the biggest party, Labour faces a war on all fronts.

:42:55.:42:59.

Plaid Cymru are keen to watch Ray this campaign as a two horse race.

:43:00.:43:03.

Labour are the establishment party here in Wales. They've been leading

:43:04.:43:07.

the Welsh government since devolution was born. We've just

:43:08.:43:10.

bumped along at the bottom of so many different league tables in

:43:11.:43:14.

terms of the health outcomes, education, the economy. They've had

:43:15.:43:18.

their chance to put these problems right and they've failed. Many

:43:19.:43:22.

people now recognise that it's time we had change and I'm arguing that

:43:23.:43:26.

Plaid Cymru is the change Wales needs. Last time round, the

:43:27.:43:31.

Conservatives were the second biggest party in the semi but polls

:43:32.:43:35.

suggest that this time there is a real threat they could be beaten

:43:36.:43:40.

into third. Their leader jetted into explained why he doesn't agree.

:43:41.:43:43.

After 17 years of Labour in government, what have we got? The

:43:44.:43:48.

lowest take-home wages of anywhere in the United Kingdom, a health

:43:49.:43:51.

service that has seen NHS waiting times double and education standards

:43:52.:43:55.

that have been slipping. It's not because Welsh people desire any less

:43:56.:43:58.

than anywhere else in the UK, but it's through poor political

:43:59.:44:02.

leadership. It's been one party propped up by two others here in

:44:03.:44:07.

government and we want to change that. If it's starting to feel like

:44:08.:44:10.

Labour against everyone else, it probably is. In the rest of the UK

:44:11.:44:15.

as in Wales, the Lib Dem vote collapsed in the last election and

:44:16.:44:18.

things are hardly looking more positive this time round. Five years

:44:19.:44:22.

ago people predicted we would be wiped out but we returned as a

:44:23.:44:26.

strong group and that group over the last five years has created

:44:27.:44:28.

thousands of apprenticeships. We've been able to put ?260 million extra

:44:29.:44:33.

into our schools, we've been able to change the law on nurse staffing

:44:34.:44:38.

levels and if we can do that with just five assembly members over the

:44:39.:44:41.

last five years, imagine what we could do with more, and that is what

:44:42.:44:46.

we are campaigning. Like the great unknown here is Ukip. They are

:44:47.:44:49.

expected to make a breakthrough and take a seat. At their campaign has

:44:50.:44:57.

been marred by rumblings about candidates being parachuted into

:44:58.:45:00.

Wales. They say any publicity is good publicity but the reality is,

:45:01.:45:04.

as a party it's good to have people with different views who feel

:45:05.:45:07.

passionately about our politics and that's what we've got. We've now

:45:08.:45:12.

been able to channel that passion into winning seats here and in the

:45:13.:45:17.

Welsh assembly. There is little time left for much more campaigning. What

:45:18.:45:21.

this place looks like on the inside will be decided on Thursday.

:45:22.:45:26.

You predicted correctly. I will now as confetti cut Haas predictions.

:45:27.:45:38.

The mug's game. Do you still expect them to win nine seats? That is what

:45:39.:45:45.

Ukip were predicting, nine seats, but you will not put a number on it?

:45:46.:45:51.

I think we will win five seats, we may do better than that. We have

:45:52.:45:55.

never won a seat in the Assembly before. There will be a breakthrough

:45:56.:46:01.

in Wales, and not just Wales. I think people are not quite noticing,

:46:02.:46:05.

but in the opinion polls, last Thursday one YouGov poll has Ukip at

:46:06.:46:10.

its highest ever national rating, we not doing badly. But it is about

:46:11.:46:15.

translating into seat. Anything less than five in Wales will be a

:46:16.:46:19.

disappointment? I think we will win five, we may do better, let's see.

:46:20.:46:24.

Looking at what will happen out there in England, will it be a case

:46:25.:46:28.

of coming second and third, maybe a high second in a lot of cases, but

:46:29.:46:33.

you will not make the games in England? I think we will win seats

:46:34.:46:40.

in the London assembly. I think we will win a seat or two in Stormont

:46:41.:46:45.

in Northern Ireland. No other party will do that, the Tories will not do

:46:46.:46:51.

it, Labour are not standing. In Scotland, it is 50/ 50. With English

:46:52.:46:56.

local elections, I think we will make some gains, how many, I do not

:46:57.:47:01.

know, but we will make some. But isn't how well you could do in

:47:02.:47:07.

England a benchmark? Of course. If you don't make any seats you can

:47:08.:47:12.

point to Wales and Stormont... To try to guess how many games we will

:47:13.:47:16.

make in the English elections is virtually impossible. -- how many

:47:17.:47:23.

gains. I think we will become the biggest party on Sarah Council, I

:47:24.:47:27.

think we have a chance of becoming the biggest party on the council in

:47:28.:47:32.

Rotherham. We already control finer District Council. There are 500

:47:33.:47:36.

local Ukip councillors, local base is growing. The people we have had

:47:37.:47:41.

elected have behaved, on the whole, pretty well and been very diligent

:47:42.:47:46.

and worked hard. Yes, we will improve. But in Thanet, in areas you

:47:47.:47:53.

won, there have been split in the party and people not agreeing

:47:54.:47:57.

amongst themselves. That has taken away... We have ferries bringing

:47:58.:48:03.

cars back to Ramsgate for the first time in ten years, things are going

:48:04.:48:08.

well. So when you say you are rolling up your sleeves, working

:48:09.:48:11.

hard on serving local people, have you got a good enough record to show

:48:12.:48:17.

that? Yes, Thanet is proving it. After six months, it was pretty

:48:18.:48:22.

awful. What party does not go from that number to that number and have

:48:23.:48:28.

robins? It always happens. I suppose people say that if you cannot gain

:48:29.:48:33.

council seats when other populist and anti-EU parties are gaining

:48:34.:48:36.

ground, quite significant ground across Europe, there must be serious

:48:37.:48:42.

doubts about the long-term political competitiveness of Ukip? YouGov last

:48:43.:48:47.

Thursday had as at the highest opinion poll ever, that is for a

:48:48.:48:52.

party that won the European elections in 2014. We are at the

:48:53.:48:55.

highest we have ever been as a party, what more can I do? Or those

:48:56.:48:59.

you did not get the official campaign designation. -- you did not

:49:00.:49:07.

get the official campaign designation. Is there a danger that

:49:08.:49:10.

people just think you have served your purpose, this turkey is voting

:49:11.:49:16.

for Christmas, we could be out? Batted in muscles. Ukip has

:49:17.:49:20.

established itself as a party that fights. We believe in

:49:21.:49:23.

self-government but we have also made big calls on things like

:49:24.:49:28.

immigration, we have been proven right. Whatever happens in this

:49:29.:49:31.

referendum, if there is a narrow win... How significant is the win

:49:32.:49:37.

have to be before people start saying it will be a neverendum? If

:49:38.:49:49.

the Remain campaign wins, which I do not think they will, given the

:49:50.:49:53.

passion on the Leave side, compared to them, if the Remain side wins, I

:49:54.:49:59.

suspect that could be large chunks of the Labour Party Conservative

:50:00.:50:04.

Party who would be irreconcilable to the positions taken by their

:50:05.:50:07.

leaderships. So there will still be a Ukip after the referendum,

:50:08.:50:12.

whatever happens? I think it could be bigger than now. If we lost the

:50:13.:50:15.

referendum it could be very much bigger, if we won the referendum, we

:50:16.:50:21.

would need to be there to make sure that the will of the people was

:50:22.:50:24.

carried out. But then the public would ask, what else, they would

:50:25.:50:25.

need to see more than they have. So much for Ukip -

:50:26.:50:30.

what about the Lib Dems' prospects Let's speak to one

:50:31.:50:32.

of their MPs, Tom Brake. Welcome. Wattel success look like

:50:33.:50:41.

for the Lib Dems? Again, I will not predict how many we might win...

:50:42.:50:47.

Nigel Farage has actually predicted. We see this as being, I suppose, the

:50:48.:50:53.

beginning of a recovery. Clearly, we had a bad five years in coalition.

:50:54.:50:59.

Now we are in a position where in recent by-elections, for example,

:51:00.:51:04.

supporters, is 7%. If you look at places like Sheffield, Newcastle,

:51:05.:51:10.

Manchester, Portsmouth, I think we are on track to make some gains. Or

:51:11.:51:15.

you will say that the Lib Dems will make gains in these elections? I

:51:16.:51:21.

think that is the case, but I will not put a number on them. This is

:51:22.:51:27.

the first test of the post coalition Lib Dems, and Tim Farron's

:51:28.:51:33.

leadership. You might argue that one gain is a recovery from such a low

:51:34.:51:38.

bar. They might argue that, what is important is that people are

:51:39.:51:42.

listening to the Lib Dems. There is no real evidence of that?

:51:43.:51:47.

By-elections are the only real test we have had, we are doing very well

:51:48.:51:53.

on those. We also have a political landscape in which the Labour Party

:51:54.:51:58.

is in a very bad state and the Conservative Party that people see

:51:59.:52:03.

on television on a daily basis, Cabinet ministers attacking each

:52:04.:52:07.

other over the issue of whether we should Remain or Leave the EU, in

:52:08.:52:12.

contrast, the Lib Dems are fighting the council elections in a united

:52:13.:52:16.

way, we are fighting on the core issues that matter to local people.

:52:17.:52:21.

We are very strong community campaigners, I think that will stand

:52:22.:52:25.

us in good stead on Thursday. If you hold the balance of power in the

:52:26.:52:29.

Welsh Assembly, would you be prepared to prop up the Labour

:52:30.:52:34.

government back? I will not speak on behalf of Kirsty Williams, they can

:52:35.:52:38.

make those decisions themselves. Are you advising voters in the London

:52:39.:52:41.

mayoral election where they should put their second preference? We

:52:42.:52:47.

advise them to support Caroline Pidgeon, who has definitely come out

:52:48.:52:51.

on top in a televised debate, she has eight years of the London

:52:52.:52:54.

Assembly Member, she knows her stuff in relation to transport and

:52:55.:53:00.

policing. Second preferences, which party would be closer to her

:53:01.:53:05.

objectives? I will leave people to make up their own minds. Who do you

:53:06.:53:11.

think you're closer to at the moment, the Conservatives or Labour?

:53:12.:53:15.

I will not play that game. In relation to the London mayoral

:53:16.:53:23.

elections, I think they want a team of people on the London Assembly who

:53:24.:53:26.

will punch above their weight, the Liberal Democrats have done that, I

:53:27.:53:30.

want is to continue to do that in larger numbers than at present. We

:53:31.:53:34.

will see what happens by Friday, thank you.

:53:35.:53:35.

Thousands of year two pupils in England are boycotting school

:53:36.:53:38.

today, possibly with the help of their parents.

:53:39.:53:40.

The protest is over the SATs test and a national curriculum which,

:53:41.:53:43.

according to the campaign, has turned schools into

:53:44.:53:45.

The Government is urging parents not to take part in the boycott.

:53:46.:53:52.

It is the wrong way to discuss political issues. We shouldn't be

:53:53.:54:00.

bringing politics into the's education. Even missing a degs

:54:01.:54:04.

school can be damaging, not just to the child who does not attend but

:54:05.:54:09.

the other children who have to go through a catch-up lesson to make up

:54:10.:54:13.

for the child who did not attend. I would ask parents considering this

:54:14.:54:18.

action, please don't do so, it will damage your child's's education, and

:54:19.:54:19.

that of others in their class. Well, Ellie is with some

:54:20.:54:23.

parents and children - who are not at school -

:54:24.:54:26.

in South East London. Ellie, what's happening

:54:27.:54:28.

where you are? It is a nice enough day!

:54:29.:54:34.

They picked a lovely day for it. Here where we are we have painting

:54:35.:54:39.

going on, colouring, I think we even have some jewellery making. We have

:54:40.:54:44.

children and parents from three schools in this area who are making

:54:45.:54:48.

their voices heard today, making their points. Steve Roses one of

:54:49.:54:54.

them, why are you here? Basically because, like a lot of parents, I

:54:55.:54:58.

have lost trust in what the Government is doing in education, so

:54:59.:55:02.

we are here to say that we are on the side of teachers, academics and

:55:03.:55:08.

children, who do not really like what is going on. The Schools

:55:09.:55:12.

Minister said you should not bring children into politics, leave them

:55:13.:55:16.

out of it. They should be at school, it is a Tuesday? I think children

:55:17.:55:21.

are in politics already, they are being made to Leinster that the

:55:22.:55:24.

behest of the Government that says we have to do this, so doing nothing

:55:25.:55:28.

is putting them in politics, speaking out is equally political.

:55:29.:55:33.

But our children are being made to do test about assessing schools, not

:55:34.:55:37.

what is good for them. I do not have a problem with my children being

:55:38.:55:42.

political. The concern is that this puts children through unnecessary

:55:43.:55:46.

stress, that at this age do they get stressed about this sort of thing? I

:55:47.:55:50.

think a lot of it does not just come from the parents but the teachers,

:55:51.:55:56.

they are under pressure to teachers curriculum, a very narrow

:55:57.:55:59.

curriculum. Because they are assessed on it, as are their

:56:00.:56:03.

schools. So our children are being made to do this so that the

:56:04.:56:06.

Government has convenient data with which to assess children, leading

:56:07.:56:12.

into a more worrying agenda about academisation, forced academisation,

:56:13.:56:16.

lack of parent representation, lots of things adding up to a sinister

:56:17.:56:20.

picture of Government plans for education, which seem to be more

:56:21.:56:25.

about business than what is good for children. Millie, you are enjoying

:56:26.:56:30.

the day off? Why are you here? Because I do not want to be learning

:56:31.:56:34.

co-coordinating subordinating multicore sentences. They are quite

:56:35.:56:39.

dull. It is a good excuse to sit in the sun on a Tuesday? Very good. We

:56:40.:56:45.

have about 60 people here, I understand there are lots of similar

:56:46.:56:49.

protests to run the country. What next. Will this make any difference?

:56:50.:56:53.

I think it makes a difference because we are talking about it on

:56:54.:56:57.

national television, it is being talked about in a lot of places

:56:58.:57:01.

around the media, lots of people are questioning what is happening. I

:57:02.:57:04.

think that is important. Teachers and everyone else have been saying

:57:05.:57:08.

this, parents are saying this, we need to look at this, it is not

:57:09.:57:13.

doing our children any good. A narrow curriculum, a testing regime,

:57:14.:57:16.

forced academisation, none of that is doing any good. We had to leave

:57:17.:57:22.

it there. Thousands of people doing similar things the country. Back to

:57:23.:57:29.

you, Jo. I was going to put you through Koke award in 18

:57:30.:57:32.

subordinating clauses, whatever they are. Do you have sympathy for the

:57:33.:57:37.

parents? Non-, I have never had a problem with my children being

:57:38.:57:40.

tested. There is nothing wrong, every few years, with children being

:57:41.:57:44.

tested. Have you seen the sort of questions they were asking? . This

:57:45.:57:49.

particular one. I have several kids, I have seen them doing SATs test,

:57:50.:57:56.

some have done 11 plus, GCSEs, A-levels, deg. I have no problem.

:57:57.:58:01.

There are a series of tests in real life, in school we should not avoid

:58:02.:58:06.

them. But what is wrong with teacher assessment at seven? It depends how

:58:07.:58:10.

you approach the test. Clearly if they are being shouted at for a week

:58:11.:58:14.

that if you don't do well in this you will be written off as a

:58:15.:58:17.

failure, but I don't think that is the way children are taught when

:58:18.:58:20.

they are seven years old, at least I hope they are not. Do you think

:58:21.:58:26.

these protests will have an effect on Government policy? I don't think

:58:27.:58:30.

so. I can tell. Ellie was in that part of the sun was shining, is this

:58:31.:58:35.

happening on a big scale across the country? I am not sure. -- in that

:58:36.:58:39.

park, and the sun was shining. If that girl is seven, if that

:58:40.:58:45.

wasn't... I was impressed that she had learned her lines. I think the

:58:46.:58:51.

Government will stick to its guns. I will have to say stop, that is all

:58:52.:58:55.

for today. Thank you for all our guests, and particularly due for

:58:56.:59:01.

being guest of the day. The one o'clock News is

:59:02.:59:02.

Jo Coburn is joined by Ukip leader Nigel Farage to discuss the latest news from Westminster, including Ukip's prospects in the local elections and the ongoing row over claims of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.

Labour's shadow housing minister John Healey discusses the Housing Bill, and the programme hears from parents keeping their children away from school in protest against Sats.


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