12/07/2016 Daily Politics


12/07/2016

Jo Coburn is joined by Canon Giles Fraser to discuss the latest news from Westminster, including Theresa May preparing to be prime minister and the Labour party leadership race.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics and Westminster,

:00:00.:00:07.

where today David Cameron is completing his last

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He's been meeting his cabinet for the last time, while Theresa May

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is preparing to take over as prime minister after a dramatic end

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to the Conservative Party leadership election.

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Theresa May says she's honoured and humbled to be

:00:57.:01:00.

chosen to lead the nation, and she's pledged to make a success

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But who will get the top jobs in her government,

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David Cameron is packing his bags at Downing Street months earlier

:01:09.:01:18.

We'll be discussing the legacy of his time in office

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and asking will it be defined by his decision to call

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With the Conservative leadership election over, Labour is about to

:01:25.:01:36.

get going. I'm here at that party HQ ahead of a crunch meeting that could

:01:37.:01:38.

determine Jeremy Corbyn's fate. Some parties are calling

:01:39.:01:42.

for a general election now, but will Theresa May

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wait until 2020? We find out if the public is ready

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to go back to the polls. All that in the next hour,

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and with us for the whole of the programme today,

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it's the Church of England priest So where else can we begin other

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than with the news that Theresa May is to be the next prime minister

:02:00.:02:07.

of the United Kingdom? Her rise to the top job,

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which is due to formally take place tomorrow, was triggered

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by David Cameron's failure to win the EU referendum,

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and she was helped along the way by her Brexit-supporting

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rivals falling aside. This morning, Theresa May attended

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David Cameron's last cabinet at Downing Street,

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and will now be working on her first speech as prime minister

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and deciding who to appoint One of the biggest questions

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is who she'll appoint to the second most important job,

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that of Chancellor of the Exchequer, and how she will put together

:02:46.:02:48.

a cabinet that united those who supported a vote to leave

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and a vote to remain Much has been made of the fact she

:02:51.:03:00.

is Britain's second woman Prime Minister and I suppose that is still

:03:01.:03:04.

a big deal. It is a huge deal. But the great thing is that women since

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been taking over all around the world. We might have a female

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President of the United States and we will have Angela Merkel and in

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Scotland, and we really are being run by women, and it's great to have

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that male dominance broken. While she has risen to the top, David

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Cameron is packing his bags and leaving. It's hard to believe that

:03:28.:03:32.

he was elected with a Tory majority, the first since 1992, just last

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year. What are your thoughts on that? This morning I thought, how

:03:36.:03:42.

can you do it so quickly? How do you leave so quickly? The poor man, two

:03:43.:03:46.

days ago, was leisurely imagining he had a while to go and now he has to

:03:47.:03:54.

get out. We are going to have to pause and think about what his

:03:55.:04:01.

legacy is. The Brexit thing may or may not dominate it. It will, went

:04:02.:04:07.

it? But there will be other things we can look back on with David

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Cameron 's time. We can think a bit more broadly about what he has done,

:04:12.:04:14.

the good things he has done and the things he's not done so well. You

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wouldn't put it simply you are pleased to see him go, you have some

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sympathy? No, I'm pleased to see him go and I'm pleased to see the end of

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the bowling than club politics, and the wave of austerity that he

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represented -- Bullingdon club. He said he wanted to be a one nation

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Tory, and he that and maybe Theresa May will be that.

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Tomorrow will be David Cameron's final appearance at Prime

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Minister's Questions, after which he will visit the Queen

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Soon after that, Theresa May will make the same journey

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to Buckingham Palace, before she heads to 10

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Downing Street to take over as the second female prime minister

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So what's going to be high on her list of priorities?

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Theresa May's first task tomorrow evening will be to appoint people

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to the other Great Offices of State: Chancellor, Foreign Secretary,

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Other senior ministerial appointments will likely trickle out

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on Thursday as the Cabinet reshuffle continues.

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Although some are suggesting she should seek a mandate

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from the country, she has explicitly said there should be no general

:05:30.:05:32.

Having vowed that 'Brexit means Brexit', her first task will be

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to step up negotiations with other EU countries,

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which have in some cases already begun.

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She's previously said that Article 50, formally announcing the UK's

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intention to leave the bloc, will not be triggered until next

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To assist in unravelling the UK-EU relationship,

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a new department for Brexit will be set up in Whitehall.

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The new Prime Minister's first big moment on the international stage

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will come at the G20 summit in September.

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But leaving the EU is not Theresa May's only focus -

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there's the vote on Trident renewal next Monday.

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The upcoming decision on whether or not to expand

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Heathrow, which she is thought to oppose, and a platform of social

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and economic reform outlined in her leadership speech this week.

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Yesterday, Theresa May gave a statement setting

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out the principles that would guide her as Prime Minister.

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Brexit means Brexit and we're going to make a success of it.

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Second, we need to unite our country, and third,

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we need a strong, new, positive vision for

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A vision of a country that works, not for the privileged few,

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but that works for every one of us, because we're going to give people

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And that's how, together, we will build a better Britain.

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Let's talk now to our assistant political editor Norman Smith,

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Well, let's talk more about Theresa May's rise to the top

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with the historian Vernon Bogdanor and the Conservative Damian Green,

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a friend of Mrs May's since university.

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First, Vernon, just a sense of the occasion in terms of the history of

:07:30.:07:35.

a new Prime Minister, a female Prime Minister comic at the beginning of a

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new parliament. -- coming at the beginning. There is no requirement

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to have the general election with a new Prime Minister but the character

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of the government is often determined by a Prime Minister and

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many thought that when Gordon Brown succeeded Tony Blair in 2007 he

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ought to have had an election. The last new Prime Minister have an

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election, you have to go back to 1955 when Anthony Eden, who had been

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Prime Minister for three weeks, he called an election and was rewarded

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with an increased majority. The situation this time is rather

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different. The House of Commons was elected last year, and has shown to

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be quite unrepresentative of the British public. Although there is no

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constitutional requirement for an election there is a democratic

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requirement for an election and that's a problem that Theresa May

:08:28.:08:31.

might face given that she was a Remains a porter. We will come back

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to that in a moment. -- a remain supporter.

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Let's talk now to our assistant political editor Norman Smith,

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he's in Downing Street where I understand the removal men

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And I see you witnessed the arrivals and departures at the final cabinet.

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There were some cameos in the street. The most interesting one was

:08:52.:08:55.

Philip Hammond, the Foreign Secretary, who could become

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Chancellor soon, but when he left and he asked how it went, he said so

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so. What he meant is that it was a poignant moment. Because here you

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have the Prime Minister in effect saying his farewells when only a

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year ago he dragged his party from the clutches of a hung parliament

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into government. So obviously a poignant moment. Nicky Morgan, when

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she came out said there had been lots of lovely tributes to Mr

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Cameron. Theresa May, when she came out, she strode in that direction

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but was going to the wrong ministerial car and then headed in

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that direction to get in the correct ministerial car so maybe people will

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be hoping she's a bit more decisive in government. But she had the silly

:09:41.:09:47.

me moment on the steps of Downing Street. That will probably be on the

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front pages of the papers tomorrow. Old habits die hard. It has been

:09:53.:09:56.

quite quick, the speed of transition. We were also told the

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removal men had arrived and I'm not sure if we had a shot of it. But

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it's happening so quickly this handover. It is. The removal van is

:10:04.:10:10.

parked the other side and all of the snappers have their long telephoto

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lenses to catch a couple of men in overalls carting a sofa about, but

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it is so brutal and it is happening so fast. So Theresa May now has to

:10:22.:10:26.

slam together her government remarkably quickly. And the

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difficulty for her is that this is such a fundamental decision for her,

:10:30.:10:34.

the people she has around her, the message she sends out but she has to

:10:35.:10:38.

do it incredibly quickly. The only plus side apart from the fact that

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she doesn't have to go through a protracted leadership contest is

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that she at least has some breathing space to work out how she will

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approach these Brexit negotiations. She has a bit more than two months

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before the negotiations get under way in the autumn. On the one hand,

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the fact everything is happening quickly is huge pressure in that she

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has to appoint people quickly, but on the other hand it does give her

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back critical breathing space to think about how she's going to

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address Brexit which, let's be honest, is probable you going to

:11:11.:11:14.

define her Premiership. Although she said the other day about setting her

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own agenda, you can't help feeling that make or break for her will be

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Brexit. Norman Smith, thank you. Damian Green, the make or break will

:11:27.:11:29.

be the cabinet. Who should she appoint to the top jobs? She will

:11:30.:11:35.

want to find a balance and clearly she has already said she is setting

:11:36.:11:40.

up a new department to negotiate the Brexit terms and that will be led by

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someone who voted to leave. She said Brexit will mean Brexit, so that

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clearly means one of the key appointments. But like any incoming

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Prime Minister I'm sure she will want to create a balance of

:11:56.:12:00.

personalities, regional backgrounds, all kinds of things. Will it be an

:12:01.:12:08.

onus on her to put a lever in the position of Chancellor, for example?

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Philip Hammond has been talked about as a possible contender for the

:12:12.:12:18.

role. He was a Remain voter. Will that be beneficial to the party? The

:12:19.:12:23.

party will want a government that takes up the reins quickly and shows

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a continuing competence. Clearly the whole Brexit negotiation is going to

:12:30.:12:32.

be one of the most important things on the next few years but it's not

:12:33.:12:37.

the only thing. The Chancellor of the Exchequer, what you want is a

:12:38.:12:40.

degree of economic competence in a time where the global economy seems

:12:41.:12:45.

to be slowing down. In terms of the critical importance of who will be

:12:46.:12:48.

in the cabinet, you said, just before we went to Norman Smith, that

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it will be critically important that she marks her credentials in terms

:12:53.:12:57.

of leaving the EU. What does she have to do? The referendum shows

:12:58.:13:00.

that what happens outside Parliament is becoming more important that --

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than what happens in Parliament or the Cabinet. She has to reassure the

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country that the decision taken by the public, which I think is not

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just a decision to leave the European Union but a decision to

:13:13.:13:16.

control immigration from the European Union, she has to show that

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that decision is carried out, and more generally that the views of

:13:22.:13:24.

people in the public who seem not to be listened to that their views are

:13:25.:13:29.

taken into account. I think there is a huge gap not between the political

:13:30.:13:33.

parties, but between the political class in general and the public that

:13:34.:13:36.

were shown by the referendum. You are nodding. This is about the

:13:37.:13:40.

disconnect clearly demonstrated during the referendum. How can she

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do that? It's also about the fact that we are a divided country. We

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have been revealed as a country with huge and deep divisions. Those who

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were the beneficiaries of globalisation and those who were

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left behind, those are clear. There is a huge task for a one nation Tory

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to do exactly that, to bring everybody together, so people in

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parts of the country where they feel profoundly unattended to to be

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listened to and taken notice of. She was seen, certainly by the Liberal

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Democrats and the coalition, as hard line on immigration but she used a

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phrase in the contest saying she would have control of free movement.

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Now you could argue you either have control or you have free movement,

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you can't have both. I agree with Vernon that one of the messages was

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that the old system of free movement we had from the rest of the European

:14:41.:14:44.

Union cannot carry on. Clearly there needs to be a big enough change that

:14:45.:14:49.

people will notice the change. But there could be some freedom of

:14:50.:14:54.

movement still? We are getting into semantics. You don't want to close

:14:55.:14:58.

the borders become North Korea. We were one skilled workers coming from

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Europe as we do the rest of the world, and getting the balance right

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is clearly the key while preserving as many of the economic advantages

:15:06.:15:10.

of our access to the single market as we can. That will be the nub of

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the negotiations and where you land on that spectrum will be hugely

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important. Coming from somewhere like the Home

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Office, where she has been an awfully long time, the longest Home

:15:23.:15:26.

Secretary, not many people have made the leap from Home Secretary to

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Prime Minister. I think the last one was Winston Churchill, although he

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had a number of intermediate posts on the way. But as you imply, tans r

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an extraordinarily difficult department to run. - it is an

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extraordinarily difficult department to run. Probably one of the most

:15:41.:15:44.

defendant in Whitehall. She has avoided all the snares. It is a very

:15:45.:15:48.

good achievement. She hasn't been frightened to take on important

:15:49.:15:51.

pressure groups, such as the police. She has dealt very firmly, I believe

:15:52.:15:55.

with the issue of police corruption. Right, what about then, setting out

:15:56.:15:59.

when she's going to invoke Article 50. That's will be what a lot of the

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pro-Brexit Tory MPs will want to hear and they'll want it hear it,

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soon? Wasn't Jim Callaghan Home Secretary? You are absolutely right.

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I plead guilty. Good for you, I wasn't going to.

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On that issue of Article 50. When does she need to say it I think what

:16:21.:16:25.

she said was sensible, Britain needs to know what its negotiating stance

:16:26.:16:33.

is. There is no point in invoking article 50, with the deadline before

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you have your own ducks in a row. She suggested in one of the speeches

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she made when she launched the leadership campaign that she thought

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the end of this year, beginning of next year, would be the right time,

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so we have the autumn to decide what are the important things for us to

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start the negotiations, rather than start the negotiations before you

:16:54.:16:55.

know what your negotiating stance is. Do you think that will 's be

:16:56.:17:01.

enough for people who wanted the UK to leave the UK, that negotiations

:17:02.:17:04.

don't start immediately? It doesn't matter whether it is quick enough or

:17:05.:17:08.

not. I don't think he will with' have another election. There will be

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those who think that Article 50 will be invoked immediately but a

:17:13.:17:15.

sensible way of doing things is to get your ducks in a reand prepare

:17:16.:17:19.

for what you are going to do. -- ducks in a row. People have to

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ensure people Brexit means Brexit, that's what she is going to do and

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she has done that, those of us who are enthusiastic levers will be

:17:30.:17:32.

reassured that's where she is going, but now I think she has a it of

:17:33.:17:37.

about time to do it properly. I think it is OK. It is not just about

:17:38.:17:42.

Brexit. As you said, there are other things she will want to do the and

:17:43.:17:46.

the rest of Government to deal with. We mentioned Trident at the

:17:47.:17:49.

beginning. But some of the things she mentioned. She said the

:17:50.:17:52.

Conservative Party must be at the service of Conservative Party,

:17:53.:17:54.

putting workers on board, capping executive pay, sound like be Ed

:17:55.:17:58.

Miliband's Labour manifesto? Well, a small overlap. It was a big part of

:17:59.:18:03.

what he was saying at the time One of the differences between Theresa

:18:04.:18:06.

May and Ed Miliband, is she gets things done. She's shown that as

:18:07.:18:09.

Home Secretary, when she says she is going to do something, it happens.

:18:10.:18:13.

That was the fear people had about Ed Miliband. I do think yesterday's

:18:14.:18:16.

speech, it feels like about three weeks ago, actually it was only

:18:17.:18:19.

yesterday morning she was making that speech. So much has happened

:18:20.:18:24.

since then. It was a very interesting modernisation of the

:18:25.:18:27.

Conservative One Nation agenda, actually talking about the problems

:18:28.:18:30.

and we have talked about it already, the disconnect a lot of people feel

:18:31.:18:35.

from the prosperity that some are having, actually dealing with one of

:18:36.:18:41.

those things which are some excesses of boardroom pay in some companies.

:18:42.:18:44.

And doing something about that is an important part of a message of

:18:45.:18:48.

pulling the country together again. But what about her economic pitch?

:18:49.:18:52.

That seems to be differing from David Cameron and George Osborne,

:18:53.:18:55.

obviously Dutching the idea of reaching a surplus by 2020, less

:18:56.:18:58.

austerity. Do you agree with that, too? I do. I think it is realistic,

:18:59.:19:04.

regardless of the economic effects on us of the Brexit vote. You didn't

:19:05.:19:08.

believe the manifesto you were elected on? I believed it then. What

:19:09.:19:12.

has happened since then is that the world economy has slowed down and

:19:13.:19:19.

any sensible Chancellor reacts to changing circumstances, as Kenyes

:19:20.:19:22.

said, when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do? The facts

:19:23.:19:27.

are changes in the world economy, so giving yourself some leeway on

:19:28.:19:31.

getting deficit down to zero seemed sensible. George Osborne adopted

:19:32.:19:35.

that as well. Are you wait big your phone for a job offer? I can do the

:19:36.:19:40.

maths. Even on the first ballot there was something like 160-odd

:19:41.:19:44.

people who voted for Theresa and far fewer jobs than that in Government.

:19:45.:19:48.

I'm sure the Palace of Westminster is deeply tense at the moment but a

:19:49.:19:52.

lot of people are always disappointed at this time. But you

:19:53.:19:57.

are hopeful? I'm an etenter optimist but also a reist and I have been

:19:58.:20:02.

around long enough to know that one should go through politics wary. I

:20:03.:20:08.

would put you up. You would. Well you were close to Theresa May.

:20:09.:20:12.

David Cameron appeared to forget he still had a microphone

:20:13.:20:16.

on after delivering a brief statement outside

:20:17.:20:17.

He won't be the first or last politicians to do that.

:20:18.:20:22.

The question for today is what did he do as he walked

:20:23.:20:25.

Was it a) mutter "Caribbean here we come"?

:20:26.:20:28.

Or D) ask Sam to open a bottle of something cold?

:20:29.:20:33.

At the end of the show, Giles will give

:20:34.:20:35.

Until the surprise announcement that Theresa May was to be elected

:20:36.:20:41.

as Conservative leader unopposed, David Cameron had expected

:20:42.:20:43.

to stand down as Prime Minister in early September,

:20:44.:20:47.

finishing his term in office with a final meeting of the G20

:20:48.:20:50.

He had hoped, of course, to see out his third term before handing

:20:51.:20:54.

over to his successor, but the failure of his campaign

:20:55.:20:57.

to remain in the EU made that impossible.

:20:58.:21:00.

Let's have a listen to him speaking yesterday.

:21:01.:21:05.

I'm delighted that we're not going to have a prolonged Conservative

:21:06.:21:07.

I think Andrea Leadsom has made absolutely the right decision to

:21:08.:21:13.

stand aside and it is clear Theresa May has the overwhelming

:21:14.:21:15.

support of the Conservative parliamentary party.

:21:16.:21:17.

I'm also delighted that Theresa May will be the next Prime Minister.

:21:18.:21:20.

She's more than able to provide the leadership our country

:21:21.:21:28.

is going to need in the years ahead and she will have my full support.

:21:29.:21:31.

Obviously with the changes, we now don't need to have a prolonged

:21:32.:21:37.

period of transition and so, tomorrow, I will chair my

:21:38.:21:39.

On Wednesday I will attend the House of Commons for Prime Minister'

:21:40.:21:45.

Questions and after that, I expect to go to the Palace

:21:46.:21:48.

So we will have a new Prime Minister in that building behind me by

:21:49.:21:53.

To discuss David Cameron and his legacy we're

:21:54.:21:59.

joined by Sam Gyimah, he's a Conservative minister

:22:00.:22:01.

and served as Mr Cameron's principal private secretary,

:22:02.:22:03.

and by the journalist Tim Montgomerie.

:22:04.:22:08.

Welcome to you both. Sam Gyimah, he will only be remembered for one

:22:09.:22:15.

thing, Europe and failing to keep Britain in the EU which is what he

:22:16.:22:19.

campaigned for? . I think it is incredible unfair. It is obviously

:22:20.:22:22.

down to historians to dissect everything that happened, but I

:22:23.:22:25.

think the two big things about David Cameron's leadership. Firstly, we

:22:26.:22:29.

forget when David Cameron became leader of the Conservative Party,

:22:30.:22:33.

how unpopular the party had become. In 1997 we were decimated in that

:22:34.:22:37.

election by Tony Blair. David Cameron became Prime Minister and

:22:38.:22:40.

led the party into Government for the first time in 18 years and then

:22:41.:22:44.

a majority Conservative Government for the first time in 23 years. What

:22:45.:22:48.

for me was remarkable about that particular achievement is he did

:22:49.:22:51.

that by also changing the party. In Government, I think he's also

:22:52.:22:56.

achieved a lot. He wanted to be the Prime Minister, he was all about

:22:57.:23:00.

sunny uplands but ended up being a Prime Minister who wanted to perform

:23:01.:23:04.

an economic rescue mission. It is still in progress but he did a great

:23:05.:23:09.

job on that. Is it true to say that actually some of the good things

:23:10.:23:12.

that Sam Gyimah thinks he did, will just be wiped out by the memory of

:23:13.:23:17.

Brexit and the EU referendum? I'm afraid so. He did do good things.

:23:18.:23:23.

Hitting the 0.7% target on foreign aid, for example. Same sex marriage

:23:24.:23:27.

were real achievements but of course he will be remembered for the

:23:28.:23:31.

European referendum defeat, which I welcome the result, but that will

:23:32.:23:35.

define how he is seen. I think he should also be remembered for some

:23:36.:23:40.

of the things he Assaidi he would do in Government, like eliminate the

:23:41.:23:43.

deficit. Well, we are only half way there to that and we have a

:23:44.:23:48.

misshapen state as well. He said he would control immigration and he

:23:49.:23:51.

certainly hasn't done that. There have been really important things,

:23:52.:23:56.

like schools reform and welcome reform, but if you evaluate him on

:23:57.:24:00.

the principled economic mission that he himself said was the Conservative

:24:01.:24:03.

Party's to achieve and deliver, he is way off target. I think when you

:24:04.:24:08.

have more people in work than ever before in our country today t didn't

:24:09.:24:12.

happen by accident. It -- it didn't happen by accident. It happened

:24:13.:24:16.

because he and George Osborne had an economic plan that has delivered. It

:24:17.:24:19.

is still work in progress but let's not forget that we had one of the

:24:20.:24:24.

worst recessions in the world. We had the biggest banking bailout in

:24:25.:24:26.

the world. Maybe we were overoptimistic in terms of how

:24:27.:24:29.

quickly it could be turned around. They failed in their main mission to

:24:30.:24:33.

eliminate the deficit, didn't they? Not at all. We stood on an election

:24:34.:24:38.

platform that we would be doing it by the end of this Parliament? And

:24:39.:24:42.

now announced they won't do it by the end of this Parliament. Not

:24:43.:24:46.

missed by a year or two, it is missed by a whole Parliament and

:24:47.:24:50.

more, Sam. Wherever you stand on the Brexit debate, Leave or Remain you

:24:51.:24:53.

have to understand we are in a situation where there is serious

:24:54.:24:57.

economic uncertainty and that means that the likelihood of meeting those

:24:58.:25:00.

targets by the end of the Parliament... Are you saying it was

:25:01.:25:04.

only because of the Brexit vote you are missing the targets. Were you

:25:05.:25:07.

really going to hit the surplus budget that George Osborne set

:25:08.:25:11.

whether we remained or left the EU? I think there was a serious

:25:12.:25:16.

programme to deliver that in terms of welfare reform and public

:25:17.:25:20.

accepting cuts, and there was a serious plan, confident. What do you

:25:21.:25:25.

think broadly in temples dealing with the coalition, and dealing with

:25:26.:25:29.

the recession, didn't David Cameron lead the country through that

:25:30.:25:33.

recession and out the other side I think one of his definite

:25:34.:25:35.

achievements was to hold that Coalition Government together. I

:25:36.:25:39.

suspect when that coalition was formed at the beginning of the last

:25:40.:25:43.

Parliament, most pundits thought it would collapse during the five

:25:44.:25:46.

years. It is a huge tribute to Nick Clegg and David Cameron that they

:25:47.:25:50.

made it work. I think it is also significant, though, and this is why

:25:51.:25:53.

Iain Duncan Smith resigned a few months ago, once the Liberal

:25:54.:25:56.

Democrats were no longer holding George Osborne and David Cameron

:25:57.:26:02.

back, you saw cuts in the Budget that more of affected the poor. So

:26:03.:26:06.

this that the rich were getting tax cuts and the poor were still getting

:26:07.:26:09.

austerity that. Didn't happen quite the same under the Liberal

:26:10.:26:12.

Democrats. I think it is interesting that Theresa May, in her speech

:26:13.:26:17.

yesterday, repudiating a lot of George Osborne's economic policy and

:26:18.:26:21.

said - there must be a much greater bias to the people at the bottom end

:26:22.:26:25.

of the income spectre. It is ironic, having won a majority, the fist one

:26:26.:26:31.

since 1992, that David Cameron is leaving a year later, under the

:26:32.:26:34.

coalition, somehow they managed better. Well, he called a

:26:35.:26:38.

referendum. He recommended Remain. Was that a mistake? I think we got

:26:39.:26:45.

to a place where there had to be a referendum on Europe. The settlement

:26:46.:26:50.

was not acceptable. He called it, he recommended Remain, the country

:26:51.:26:53.

voted the other way. I think it was the right course of action for him,

:26:54.:26:57.

to leave. I am a proud Conservative. We introduced the national living

:26:58.:27:00.

wage. When Tim talks about affecting the poor. That national living wage

:27:01.:27:04.

is a huge achievement, and one that many people never expected a

:27:05.:27:06.

Conservative Government to introduce. And the reason we can

:27:07.:27:11.

talk about ourselves today as a One Nation Government and not get

:27:12.:27:14.

laughed out of the room... Is it One Nation when the country is divided?

:27:15.:27:18.

You should get laughed out of the room for that. There was a huge

:27:19.:27:21.

banking crisis in which the country was screwed over by the banks and

:27:22.:27:26.

David Cameron and his Government stood full square behind the banks,

:27:27.:27:30.

when many parts of this country suffered and actually, in the end,

:27:31.:27:33.

it was probably that that did for him. There are places like

:27:34.:27:37.

Sunderland and Hartlepool, these first places that we remember, that

:27:38.:27:41.

came in with huge majorities for Leave, these are people who feel

:27:42.:27:46.

completely angry and unattended to and it is, and it is very, very - in

:27:47.:27:52.

part it is David Cameron's fault that has happened. Come on, Giles.

:27:53.:27:55.

The deindustrialisation in the North and some of these problems are

:27:56.:28:00.

decades in the making. To somehow say today that because RBS was

:28:01.:28:05.

rescued - and it had to be rescued - is why we have had problems there,

:28:06.:28:10.

is simply untrue. I think you are right to say the referendum has

:28:11.:28:15.

pointed to lots of parts of our country where there is a need to

:28:16.:28:19.

make sure that the country works for everyone. It was a rejection, wasn't

:28:20.:28:23.

it, of David Cameron wholesale, that bricts vote to some extent. Do you

:28:24.:28:27.

think it undermined his whole project? I think if he had been a

:28:28.:28:33.

popular who had the authority and people felt he was governing for the

:28:34.:28:37.

whole nation, he wouldn't have lost the referendum. The great

:28:38.:28:39.

opportunity for the Conservatives now, is we haven't just voted to

:28:40.:28:42.

leave the European Union, we voted for a reset of our politics. I think

:28:43.:28:47.

that begins for a if he cows on the North that's what we are talking

:28:48.:28:53.

about. -- begins for a focus. The northern powerhouse, and as

:28:54.:28:56.

Theresa May said yesterday, it was too focussed on Manchester and the

:28:57.:29:03.

North West, Sunderland, plenty other places have been neglected and an

:29:04.:29:08.

idea that they borrow ?100 billion, targeted on #23r5 infrastructure, I

:29:09.:29:14.

hope Theresa May accepts that. Why did he win in 2015? The referendum

:29:15.:29:18.

was not about David Cameron, the referendum was because a lot of

:29:19.:29:21.

people felt they weren't being listened to and they weren't being

:29:22.:29:27.

listened to, particularly by distant bureaucrats on Brussels and spe

:29:28.:29:30.

specificically issues like immigration. It wasn't a referendum

:29:31.:29:33.

on David Cameron, who won an unexpected majority a year ago. I

:29:34.:29:37.

think it was also very lucky, in his opposition. That has to be said. --

:29:38.:29:42.

he was lucky. The Labour Party is still going through trials and

:29:43.:29:46.

tribelations and was lucky in his opponents. If he had a more

:29:47.:29:50.

effective opposition, it would be been completely different. History.

:29:51.:29:53.

If something else had happened? If we look at some of the things you

:29:54.:29:58.

mention in terms of social reform, gay marriage, school reform, prison

:29:59.:30:02.

reform under way. Maybe parts of the party didn't like t welfare reform,

:30:03.:30:05.

NHS reform, not everyone supported these things, he was trying to be a

:30:06.:30:08.

moderniser within the Conservative Party. Wasn't he?

:30:09.:30:13.

There was that cover of the Economist where Cameron have the

:30:14.:30:20.

Mohican and punk haircut. But have they been a bit more focused on the

:30:21.:30:24.

core objectives like deficit reduction, they might have achieved

:30:25.:30:29.

more of what they needed to achieve and they actually became slightly

:30:30.:30:33.

distracted government in its early years. Will MPs miss David Cameron

:30:34.:30:39.

personally, do you think? I will miss him personally, I was his

:30:40.:30:42.

private secretary and I didn't know him before I became an MP and I was

:30:43.:30:46.

in his inner circle and saw him working close. I will miss him

:30:47.:30:50.

tremendously and a lot of Conservative in the 20 15th and 2010

:30:51.:30:56.

intake, they know they are in Parliament today because of David

:30:57.:30:59.

Cameron. He delivered electoral success that is why they can be MPs

:31:00.:31:04.

representing their constituents. Because he wasn't seen as somebody

:31:05.:31:08.

that popular in the Parliamentary party in all sections. There was a

:31:09.:31:11.

distance and aloofness between himself and the party. You were one

:31:12.:31:16.

of the conduits between the office and the MPs. Is that fair? I was

:31:17.:31:23.

popular when I have that job. I bet you were. Everybody wanted to talk

:31:24.:31:27.

to me. During the coalition in particular, Number ten had to make a

:31:28.:31:31.

big effort to make sure it was connected with the Parliamentary

:31:32.:31:36.

party. What you had was Nick Clegg, Danny Alexander, David Cameron and

:31:37.:31:40.

George Osborne, they would thrash out ideas, announce them and then

:31:41.:31:44.

the Parliamentary party felt disconnected. There needed to be a

:31:45.:31:48.

doubling down so the Parliamentary party was plugged in. There were a

:31:49.:31:53.

range of people, if you crossed David Cameron wants, you are out. He

:31:54.:31:58.

was quite an unforgiving Prime Minister to his critics. Theresa

:31:59.:32:01.

May, I hope, won't repeat that mistake. The Tories only have a

:32:02.:32:05.

majority of 12 may need to treat each other with a little bit more

:32:06.:32:09.

mutual respect and not be so high and mighty in Downing Street. Let's

:32:10.:32:12.

see how that works out. Thank you very much.

:32:13.:32:15.

So yesterday's remarkable sequence of events, which saw

:32:16.:32:17.

Theresa May installed as Prime Minister-in-waiting,

:32:18.:32:18.

was triggered by the withdrawal of Andrew Leadsom from

:32:19.:32:20.

She said she did not have enough support among MPs to head

:32:21.:32:24.

I have, however, concluded that the interests of our country

:32:25.:32:31.

are best-served by the immediate appointment of a strong and

:32:32.:32:34.

I'm therefore withdrawing from the leadership election,

:32:35.:32:44.

and I wish Theresa May the very greatest success.

:32:45.:32:47.

It's thought Mrs Leadsom's withdrew in part because of the response

:32:48.:32:57.

to an interview she gave with the Times on Saturday,

:32:58.:33:00.

in which she said that having children meant she "had a very real

:33:01.:33:03.

This appeared to many as an attempt to turn her motherhood

:33:04.:33:09.

into an advantage over her childless rival, Mrs May.

:33:10.:33:11.

Well, the journalist who conducted the interview, Rachel Sylvester,

:33:12.:33:14.

writes today that Mrs Leadsom suffered from inexperience

:33:15.:33:17.

Welcome to the Daily Politics. Do you agree that sure Saturday

:33:18.:33:31.

interview Kilduff Andrea Leadsom's leadership ambitions? No, I am a

:33:32.:33:36.

journalist and I don't kill off leadership ambitions. But it exposed

:33:37.:33:39.

flaws in the candidacy that was there. It was the answer is that did

:33:40.:33:44.

the damage, not the questions. And a lot of her colleagues were already

:33:45.:33:47.

worrying about her lack of experience. And she had not been

:33:48.:33:53.

tested in the pressure of the leadership campaign, and her lack of

:33:54.:33:57.

experience showed quite quickly. What was going through your mind

:33:58.:34:02.

when you ask those fairly open questions about motherhood when

:34:03.:34:07.

Andrea Leadsom made the incendiary remark about having children giving

:34:08.:34:10.

her a stake in the future of the country. First of all I asked her

:34:11.:34:13.

what was the difference between you and Theresa May which was meant to

:34:14.:34:18.

be an open-ended question the her to give a pitch. And then she spoke

:34:19.:34:23.

about economic confidence, then she said she was an optimist and had a

:34:24.:34:26.

large family, including her children. I then remembered that

:34:27.:34:30.

during the EU referendum debates she often spoke as a mother. She talked

:34:31.:34:38.

about it a lot. It was clearly part of her political identity, so it was

:34:39.:34:42.

a logical question to ask if motherhood informs her politics. And

:34:43.:34:46.

that was the answer she gave. Were you surprised? I was a bit shocked,

:34:47.:34:51.

more on an emotional level because I thought that was quite hurtful thing

:34:52.:34:55.

to to Theresa May. I didn't immediately think in political terms

:34:56.:35:00.

it was incredibly damaging, I thought about it rather more

:35:01.:35:04.

emotionally. I was surprised but then quickly the conversation moved

:35:05.:35:07.

onto other things and we were talking about her policies other

:35:08.:35:13.

aspects of the contest. But that was the bit that stuck in my mind. What

:35:14.:35:19.

about other reasons, if you like, the other reasons she outlined when

:35:20.:35:22.

she stood on the doorstep and read that letter. You said she wasn't

:35:23.:35:26.

really prepared for the brutality of the campaign. Do you stand by that?

:35:27.:35:31.

That it is brutal and somebody like her who is not media trained in that

:35:32.:35:36.

sense is not going to survive? Yes, and it's not just about being media

:35:37.:35:40.

trained, as Eric Pickles said, you have to go up against Vladimir Putin

:35:41.:35:45.

and into negotiations with some of the most experienced negotiators

:35:46.:35:50.

around Europe, the political poker players of the world. It's not just

:35:51.:35:55.

about the media. You need a resilience if you're going to be

:35:56.:35:58.

Prime Minister and you need good judgment and character. It's not

:35:59.:36:01.

just about sure policies. What was your response when you heard that

:36:02.:36:04.

Andrea Leadsom was pulling out of the race yesterday? I was delighted,

:36:05.:36:09.

because I'm glad she's not Prime Minister. Not that I think that was

:36:10.:36:14.

ever likely to happen. Your interview, I thought, was very

:36:15.:36:18.

significant. I think people felt she westernised motherhood in a way that

:36:19.:36:23.

was unacceptable. -- made motherhood a weapon. That showed her naivete.

:36:24.:36:31.

She also bottled it, on top of being naive, she revealed herself to have

:36:32.:36:38.

a bit of a glass jaw. I'm glad, politics aside, that she's not in

:36:39.:36:42.

the race. But her supporter John Redwood yesterday said he admired

:36:43.:36:47.

the fact that she was spun and optimistic and fresh. Are we now in

:36:48.:36:52.

an era where you cannot have that? Perhaps maybe the Leader of the

:36:53.:36:57.

Opposition, but certainly not to be leader and Prime Minister? It

:36:58.:37:00.

depends what is unspun. Kenneth Clarke speaks his mind, even when he

:37:01.:37:06.

was caught on the Mike unwittingly. Nobody minded. But it depends if the

:37:07.:37:11.

unspun reveals that you do think motherhood gives you an advantage,

:37:12.:37:16.

that is off-putting to some people, and I think the other point you

:37:17.:37:21.

mentioned was there was a majority of MPs who were against and there

:37:22.:37:24.

was a danger of a Jeremy Corbyn situation with the impasse between

:37:25.:37:30.

the Parliamentary party in the country. What about the fact that

:37:31.:37:36.

now we have Theresa May certainly becoming Prime Minister, but all of

:37:37.:37:40.

the Leave candidates who stood for the contests have fallen by the

:37:41.:37:45.

wayside, one way or another and the new leader, sceptical she may have

:37:46.:37:49.

been about wanting to remain, she is the new leader without much effort.

:37:50.:37:54.

It is extraordinary. You feel they led us to this situation and where

:37:55.:37:59.

are they? The problem for Theresa May will be constant calls of

:38:00.:38:03.

betrayal. She says Brexit is Brexit, but it can mean a million things. If

:38:04.:38:08.

she negotiates some kind of deal that involves aspects of free

:38:09.:38:14.

movement remaining immediately the pure Brexit campaign will get

:38:15.:38:19.

incredibly cross. Why isn't there a Leave candidates still standing? I

:38:20.:38:23.

voted to leave but I didn't vote for people. It was not a general

:38:24.:38:27.

election where you voted to candidates with policies, I was

:38:28.:38:30.

voting the something for what it said on the paper. It was rather

:38:31.:38:35.

important to me that I was voting for something rather than people

:38:36.:38:38.

because a lot of people I was voting alongside I didn't share much of

:38:39.:38:43.

their politics in other ways. I think this demonstrated the truth of

:38:44.:38:47.

that. We didn't vote for a set of people or policy, we voted to leave

:38:48.:38:51.

or remain. Rachel Sylvester, thank you.

:38:52.:38:53.

So from a leadership contest which has moved at lightning speed

:38:54.:38:55.

to one which is travelling at little more than a snail's pace.

:38:56.:38:58.

It's been more than two weeks since Labour Leader, Jeremy Corbyn,

:38:59.:39:01.

began to be hit by a wave of Shadow Cabinet resignations,

:39:02.:39:03.

and yesterday a challenger in the shape of Angela

:39:04.:39:06.

But the fate of Mr Corbyn may hang on a meeting of Labour's ruling

:39:07.:39:12.

Our reporter, Mark Lobel, is outside Labour HQ

:39:13.:39:18.

Mark, what is happening? Not long to wait because in an hour and a half

:39:19.:39:29.

the Labour National executive committee will meet at the Labour

:39:30.:39:33.

headquarters behind me to determine whether Jeremy Corbyn automatically

:39:34.:39:36.

gets on the leadership ballot or whether he has to get nominations

:39:37.:39:42.

from 51 MPs and MEPs, which many say he would struggle to get. They would

:39:43.:39:48.

also determine now the contest has been triggered by Angela Eagle, how

:39:49.:39:51.

long other candidates have to throw their hat in the ring and also who

:39:52.:39:56.

will be voting in the contest as we have registered supporters that were

:39:57.:39:59.

crucial to Jeremy Corbyn's victory last time, and the people who paid

:40:00.:40:06.

?3 last time, and that might go up, and how long they have to register

:40:07.:40:09.

their support. Nobody wants to make predictions about anything these

:40:10.:40:12.

days, which I understand, but do you think he will be on the ballot?

:40:13.:40:18.

Let's explain what has to happen. Normally the ballot will be

:40:19.:40:21.

interpreted by Labour Party rules but because it is such a divisive

:40:22.:40:25.

contest as we have seen with a brick going through Angela Eagle's window,

:40:26.:40:32.

the Labour Party general secretary decided to get legal advice. His

:40:33.:40:35.

legal advice says that Jeremy Corbyn automatically would not get on the

:40:36.:40:42.

ballot, but we have seen contrary advice from the unions and a member

:40:43.:40:45.

of the NEC and they say they will challenge it in court. It is now

:40:46.:40:49.

down to an NEC decision. They have to sit down amongst the group and

:40:50.:40:54.

decide. I have gone through the 33 members what their public utterances

:40:55.:40:57.

have been over the last few days, and Jeremy Corbyn would have a

:40:58.:41:01.

majority of around five. The problem is, one person can't turn up today

:41:02.:41:05.

and one will be late to the meeting and there is talk of a secret ballot

:41:06.:41:13.

which would mean that some of the union backed members might vote

:41:14.:41:15.

against how they publicly stated they would vote which is for Jeremy

:41:16.:41:18.

Corbyn. Jeremy Corbyn is so rattled that he is coming down to the

:41:19.:41:22.

meeting himself because he is a member and he has a vote about his

:41:23.:41:25.

own future as well. Mark, it is agonising.

:41:26.:41:27.

We're joined now by the former Shadow Education Secretary,

:41:28.:41:29.

Lucy Powell, she resigned two weeks ago and is calling for

:41:30.:41:32.

The NEC is meeting later on today and they will decide whether Jeremy

:41:33.:41:41.

Corbyn is automatically on the ballot paper. Do you want to make a

:41:42.:41:46.

plea to them to ensure he isn't? I personally feel will have nothing to

:41:47.:41:52.

fear about Jeremy being on the ballot paper in the sense that I

:41:53.:41:54.

think the support for him amongst the party membership is falling and

:41:55.:41:59.

falling quickly indeed. If you look at the polling that is happening

:42:00.:42:04.

amongst party members, trade union affiliates and what is coming up

:42:05.:42:09.

from the grass roots. In my own constituency I have had many, many

:42:10.:42:12.

e-mails and phone calls from people who voted for Jeremy last year who

:42:13.:42:16.

now think it is untenable that he can continue without the support of

:42:17.:42:20.

his Parliamentary colleagues. But what the NEC are deciding today is

:42:21.:42:23.

not a political decision and it shouldn't be a political decision.

:42:24.:42:27.

It is about the rules of the Labour Party. But they can be interpreted

:42:28.:42:30.

either way, so it will be a political decision. I don't think

:42:31.:42:33.

they can be interpreted either way, I think they are pretty clear. There

:42:34.:42:41.

are two things I would point you to, one is the rule itself which says

:42:42.:42:44.

where there is a vacancy is thereafter potential challengers and

:42:45.:42:46.

in this case any nomination must be supported by 20%. But they are

:42:47.:42:53.

talking about challengers, not the incumbent. If you look at the most

:42:54.:42:57.

recent rule changes we made on the contest, the Collins review, it said

:42:58.:43:01.

in recognition of the fact that the leader of the Labour Party has a

:43:02.:43:05.

special duty to head the Parliamentary Labour Party in

:43:06.:43:08.

Westminster, MPs will retain the responsibility of deciding the final

:43:09.:43:11.

short list of candidates that will be put to the ballot. As I say,

:43:12.:43:18.

whilst I would be confident of any contest, I think our forefathers and

:43:19.:43:24.

those that drew up the constitution, including many trade union leaders

:43:25.:43:28.

would have never imagined a circumstance where the leader of the

:43:29.:43:32.

Labour Party was seeking to continue on the basis of having less than 20%

:43:33.:43:39.

support of his MPs. So the NEC are today being asked to make an

:43:40.:43:43.

exceptional, political decision to put him on the ballot paper

:43:44.:43:47.

automatically. Why should he be on that ballot paper automatically in

:43:48.:43:51.

this case if those are the rules? We can either talk about the legal

:43:52.:43:55.

stuff all we can talk about a different angle, which is to say

:43:56.:44:01.

that if he is not on it it will look like an enormous stitch up to a lot

:44:02.:44:04.

of people. It will look like a stitch up because there are a lot of

:44:05.:44:08.

people out there who want to vote for him, maybe the majority of

:44:09.:44:11.

Labour members who want to vote for him. Least -- Lucy Powell says its

:44:12.:44:16.

diminishing. Well, let's test it. Everyone should agree, if that's the

:44:17.:44:21.

case, supporters of Jeremy like myself, if there is a vote and he

:44:22.:44:27.

loses, he loses and that is a way of uniting the party around a new

:44:28.:44:32.

candidate. If, however, you don't put him, not you, plural, and the

:44:33.:44:39.

PLP has a responsibility, and if he is not on the ballot there will be

:44:40.:44:42.

the most enormous crisis for the Labour Party. There is a crisis now.

:44:43.:44:49.

The Labour Party might well split, because there will be people like me

:44:50.:44:52.

from the left of the party who would feel that basically they are not

:44:53.:44:56.

wanted in the party. That the socialist alternative is not really

:44:57.:45:00.

required, and we will feel unable to continue to be a part of the Labour

:45:01.:45:03.

Party. Is that a risk you are willing to take? It's not my

:45:04.:45:09.

decision. But you could come out and say put him on the ballot paper. I

:45:10.:45:14.

agree with your sentiment that this is better resolved in a different

:45:15.:45:18.

way. All I am saying is, we have to take some of the heat out of the

:45:19.:45:23.

situation. The NEC, who are an elected body of the Labour Party,

:45:24.:45:27.

are there to uphold the rules. They may well choose, and Jerry May has

:45:28.:45:33.

many more supporters on the NEC than dope supported -- Jeremy. They may

:45:34.:45:39.

take an exceptional decision to put him on the ballot paper and I

:45:40.:45:43.

believe in that contest Jeromy is likely to lose in any case. You are

:45:44.:45:51.

speaking in favour of that, being on the ballot for political reasons?

:45:52.:45:56.

I think the NEC's job is to uphold the rules and the rules are clear

:45:57.:46:04.

Would you be in ( favour of... . I have nothing to fear about him being

:46:05.:46:08.

on the ballot people but I feel those who are out this morning,

:46:09.:46:11.

bullying and mob rule, throwing bricks through people's windows and

:46:12.:46:14.

having demonstrations outside the ne. C meeting, against elected

:46:15.:46:21.

members of the NEC, who are there to make a perfectly rational and

:46:22.:46:23.

judicial dedecision about the rules of Labour Party, should be able to

:46:24.:46:30.

do that in their own way, not have political interference from me for

:46:31.:46:35.

Giles. We have had MPs on here, anecdotally talking about

:46:36.:46:38.

intimidation from Jeremy Corbyn's supporters, talks of treachery and

:46:39.:46:43.

betrayal and then Len McCluskey saying, actually in his mind, if his

:46:44.:46:49.

mind Jeremy Corbyn has been dealt with by a lifrnl mob, bullying and

:46:50.:46:53.

bludgeoning. Two things. The brick is unacceptable. When it turns into

:46:54.:46:59.

any sort of physical violence, it is entirely and utterly unacceptable.

:47:00.:47:02.

You I will say that three or four times to make that clear but

:47:03.:47:05.

actually demonstrations are not unacceptable. Making your views

:47:06.:47:09.

known are not unacceptable. Making your views known passionately is not

:47:10.:47:13.

unacceptal. You say there will be a large section of the membership,

:47:14.:47:15.

perhaps the majority, that will be very, very unhappy. And it is

:47:16.:47:19.

difficult to quantify. But it isn't it true that in order to lead a

:47:20.:47:23.

political party under the system we have, you must have the confidence

:47:24.:47:27.

of the parliamentary party. You are a shadow Government, the idea is you

:47:28.:47:30.

are preparing for Government. You are not leading a movement in that

:47:31.:47:34.

strict sense of the word. Isn't that how our parliamentary democracy

:47:35.:47:37.

works? Maybe we are in a process of relinement. There are all sorts of

:47:38.:47:41.

problems about MPs and members and the people themselves that are out

:47:42.:47:44.

of whack with each other. And it could be that the Labour Party is,

:47:45.:47:48.

itself, heading for a split, where there are parts of the Labour Party

:47:49.:47:52.

that seem very, very close to what Theresa May was saying - workers on

:47:53.:47:56.

the boards, and so forth. The whole idea that that is close to Ed

:47:57.:48:01.

Miliband is true. So there is a part of the Labour Party which would be

:48:02.:48:05.

more comfortable in the left of the Tory Party, and they seem to be a

:48:06.:48:10.

long, long way away from socialism, as I understand it, as traditionally

:48:11.:48:14.

conceived. I think the Labour Party may well not hold together. . That's

:48:15.:48:19.

not me and the vast majority of Labour. That's not me. Do you think

:48:20.:48:23.

it'll stick together? I joined the Labour Party when I was 15, under

:48:24.:48:27.

Margaret Thatcher. I lived in Manchester, at a comprehensive

:48:28.:48:30.

school. I saw what happened to my country under Margaret Thatcher and

:48:31.:48:33.

my friends who had no life chance at all. I'm not going anywhere. This is

:48:34.:48:38.

my Labour Party, as much as it is anybody else's. But I think we have

:48:39.:48:43.

a tradition in our party which is clearly exemplified in the rules of

:48:44.:48:46.

the Labour Party, where you have to, as a leader, both lead the

:48:47.:48:49.

parliamentary party as well as the wider membership. I think we can

:48:50.:48:53.

move forward from this with a candidate who holds true to our

:48:54.:48:57.

values of our socialist roots, while at the same time uniting both

:48:58.:49:01.

aspects of the party. Are you batting Angela Eagle or Owen Smith?

:49:02.:49:06.

Personally I think Owen would stand a better chance of beating Jeremy

:49:07.:49:10.

Corbyn. I think we need a generational shift but Angela has

:49:11.:49:13.

showed herself to be gutsy and ballsy. I will back whoever comes

:49:14.:49:17.

top of that. That is a Powell from Jeremy Corbyn

:49:18.:49:23.

on the subject of the brick that was thrown through the constituency

:49:24.:49:26.

office. "It is disturbing that Angela Eagle has been the victim of

:49:27.:49:30.

a threatening act and that other MPs are receiving abuse and threats. As

:49:31.:49:34.

someone who has also received death threats this week and previously I'm

:49:35.:49:37.

calling on all Labour Party members and supporters to act with calm and

:49:38.:49:40.

treat each other with respect and dignity, even where there is a

:49:41.:49:44.

disagreement. I utterly condemn any violence or threats which undermine

:49:45.:49:48.

democracy within our party and have no palatial in our politics, thank

:49:49.:49:49.

you." Now. Does anybody fancy another

:49:50.:49:52.

general election? We had one only last May -

:49:53.:49:54.

you might remember the Conservatives won a surprise majority -

:49:55.:49:57.

but with a new Prime Minister set to be installed there have been

:49:58.:50:03.

calls from opposition parties for Theresa May to go

:50:04.:50:05.

to the country. But how do the voting public feel

:50:06.:50:07.

about the idea of another Greetings from Croydon,

:50:08.:50:10.

where it's stopped raining just long enough for us to ask the great

:50:11.:50:14.

British public when the next general Now, or in 2020, as it

:50:15.:50:18.

says under the law. They need to get the ball rolling

:50:19.:50:25.

for Brexit first. She's going to be the next Prime

:50:26.:50:28.

Minister. Excited

:50:29.:50:50.

by that? I think it with strengthen her hand

:50:51.:50:51.

if she did have a general election. At the end of the day, they voted

:50:52.:50:57.

for a party, not one person, so whether it is Cameron leading it

:50:58.:51:03.

or May leading it, I I think it would be better

:51:04.:51:06.

for the country to get it over and done with -

:51:07.:51:21.

do it now. Do you not think the country has had

:51:22.:51:23.

enough of voting already? Well, if the weather carries

:51:24.:51:25.

on like this, during Theresa May's Premiership,

:51:26.:51:29.

she'll have to wear much There's a mum explaining to her son

:51:30.:51:31.

what's happening - he's living through a great moment in

:51:32.:51:45.

political history. We are getting a new Prime Minister,

:51:46.:51:48.

should we have a new general Why are

:51:49.:51:59.

you laughing? I think they should wait

:52:00.:52:05.

because more people can then make Yes, and give her a bit of time

:52:06.:52:08.

to have done something. Put it in the 2020 box

:52:09.:52:15.

and I'll hold the pram. Do you think she should

:52:16.:52:21.

have a general election? I think so, yes, because a lot

:52:22.:52:23.

of people in this country aren't happy with the whole Brexit

:52:24.:52:26.

scenario that happened. They had a vote but because it was

:52:27.:52:28.

so close a lot of people felt that it was kind of -

:52:29.:52:33.

they wanted it to be Time for the big reveal under

:52:34.:52:36.

the Daily Politics' umbrella. Look, a bulk of people in Croydon

:52:37.:52:39.

think there should be a general Now, where are those

:52:40.:52:42.

Daily Politics' towels? Well, the weather was unkind there

:52:43.:52:54.

for Adam Fleming testing the public. Well, we're joined now by Lib Dem

:52:55.:53:02.

president Sal Brinton, who is calling for an early general

:53:03.:53:04.

election, and by the Conservative MP Sal Brinton, the Liberal Democrats

:53:05.:53:11.

wanted the fixed term Parliament Act why chapg your mind in No, there is

:53:12.:53:16.

provision to call an election. Clear cry tieria, 65% of MPs or in the

:53:17.:53:22.

event of a vote of no confidence and 14 days, for exactly the reason we

:53:23.:53:26.

are in now. When there is a major change in the country, the

:53:27.:53:29.

referendum was the biggest decision this country has made in decades and

:53:30.:53:32.

Frank lit Conservative manifesto voted on last year, most has gone

:53:33.:53:37.

out of the window. Stability has gone, Osborne has gone away from

:53:38.:53:41.

austerity. All of those reasons, a new Prime Minister, needs a new

:53:42.:53:45.

mandate, not least for the plans for Brexit. She was a Remainor, the UK

:53:46.:53:50.

has voted to leave. She has only been elected Prime Minister for your

:53:51.:53:52.

colleagues. I voted guest the nonsense of the fixed term

:53:53.:53:56.

Parliament Act at second and that I had reading and it was the Liberal

:53:57.:54:00.

Democrats who were behind it but the truth is we have had three changes

:54:01.:54:05.

of Prime Minister in my lifetime, Wilson Callaghan, Thatcher-Major and

:54:06.:54:07.

Blair hop Brown all three parliaments ran for five years, so

:54:08.:54:11.

there is no constitutional precedent. But as you remember,

:54:12.:54:15.

Gordon Brown was always said to have regretted that decision, certainly

:54:16.:54:17.

of having marched everyone to the top of the hill and in the calling

:54:18.:54:21.

that election and having a popular mandate. But he was promoting an

:54:22.:54:24.

early general election, Theresa May isn't, if she's talking about going

:54:25.:54:28.

to 2020. Isn't that the case, if she quells any talk of an early general

:54:29.:54:32.

election, then at least she will have settled the decision. It will

:54:33.:54:36.

be interesting to see if she can do that. Your popular vote on the

:54:37.:54:39.

streets of Croydon was showing there was a strong momentum at the moment

:54:40.:54:43.

-- people saying, where are we standing at the moment, where are we

:54:44.:54:47.

going to do Go? Let's not forget in 2007, it was Theresa May who called

:54:48.:54:51.

for Gordon Brown who have an election because he had no mandate.

:54:52.:54:54.

Right. I mean, is now the right time? Absolutely not. Theresa May

:54:55.:54:58.

has to get on and do stu. I think the Liberal Democrats are sore

:54:59.:55:01.

losers about the referendum and they are just looking for a way to turn

:55:02.:55:07.

the clock back and try and weedle their way out of a very clear

:55:08.:55:10.

decision that the country made. And, so, I think basically we have to get

:55:11.:55:16.

on and do it. The country has spoken and what Theresa May's big job is,

:55:17.:55:21.

is to implement what the will of the British people is. We have had

:55:22.:55:25.

enough uncertainty. It isn't just the Liberal Democrats. Labour were

:55:26.:55:28.

calling for it earlier today as well. I'm not sure about Labour,

:55:29.:55:32.

that Labour universally... I don't think Jeremy Corbyn in his heart or

:55:33.:55:36.

hearts or even his heart wants a general election. Some of the MPs

:55:37.:55:40.

might. The point surely is whether the new Prime Minister has a man it

:55:41.:55:45.

do and we -- a mandate and we and many other politicians are

:55:46.:55:51.

concerned. We don't elect Prime Ministers, we elect governments.

:55:52.:55:56.

This is why I voted guest the be a. Are you regretting that? No

:55:57.:55:58.

emergency provision is there for this decision where the country has

:55:59.:56:02.

made the biggest decision in decades. The landscape has changed.

:56:03.:56:06.

Would it be better to wait until we have a clear idea at least at to

:56:07.:56:10.

what the renegotiation might look like, so not now, but maybe 18

:56:11.:56:14.

months' time. We are saying an election for a mandate, we are not

:56:15.:56:18.

saying next week but clearly, at the moment, we have a Prime Minister

:56:19.:56:21.

coming in tomorrow. There is no clear Brexit plan and, whats' more,

:56:22.:56:25.

the economy has changed. -- what's more. This is shouting, fire, fire.

:56:26.:56:30.

It is nottage emergency situation, we require not people shouting fire,

:56:31.:56:34.

we require people having calm heads, getting on and implementing what the

:56:35.:56:38.

will of the British people was and it was pretty clear Can you tell us

:56:39.:56:42.

what it is? Yes, leave the European Union. It was there on the paper. It

:56:43.:56:47.

is not that simple, it is all the detail. Which has to be worked out.

:56:48.:56:51.

Would it strengthen her negotiation position in terms of Brexit... She

:56:52.:56:54.

is not going to have a general election. She would have to persuade

:56:55.:56:58.

Conservative Party colleagues to have a vote of no confidence in her.

:56:59.:57:02.

You don't think they would do that. How ridiculous would that be, she is

:57:03.:57:06.

about to become Prime Minister and within a couple of weeks we have a

:57:07.:57:10.

vote of no confidence. People should have thought about this when they

:57:11.:57:12.

passed the fixed-term Parliament Act. All I would say is that over

:57:13.:57:19.

the last few weeks, things have changed dramatically, events, events

:57:20.:57:22.

dear boy. There was only a general election last year But things have

:57:23.:57:25.

changed really fundamentally. They have changed. Well, we are going to

:57:26.:57:29.

change Prime Minister. Thank you both for coming on to the programme.

:57:30.:57:33.

There is just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:57:34.:57:36.

David Cameron appeared to forget he still had a microphone on after

:57:37.:57:38.

delivering a brief statement in Downing Street yesterday.

:57:39.:57:41.

The question was what did he do as he walked back into number 10?

:57:42.:57:48.

Was it A) mutter 'Caribbean here we come'.

:57:49.:57:53.

or Dd) ask Sam to open a bottle of something cold?

:57:54.:58:04.

Open somethingcold. No let's have a look.

:58:05.:58:12.

You may not recognise it. Do you have any ideas what it might have

:58:13.:58:22.

been? It certainly wasn't the tune you have there. There are way too

:58:23.:58:29.

many notes in T What do you think? He sound the upbeat and - I've got

:58:30.:58:34.

out. He is going home and going to enjoy himself. Well, go on then. He

:58:35.:58:38.

is probably going to the Caribbean as well. And probably opened a

:58:39.:58:41.

bottle of something. Well thank you for being my guest of the day, Giles

:58:42.:58:46.

and to all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting on BBC One.

:58:47.:58:50.

We will be back at 11.30pm tomorrow for the last Prime Minister's

:58:51.:58:52.

Questions for David Cameron. Goodbye.

:58:53.:58:55.

Jo Coburn is joined by Canon Giles Fraser to discuss the latest news from Westminster, including Theresa May preparing to become the new prime minister and the Labour party leadership race.


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