11/07/2016 Daily Politics


11/07/2016

Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 11/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:40.

reported Andrea Leadsom is to pull out of the race to become

:00:41.:00:45.

Conservative leader and Prime Minister.

:00:46.:00:48.

Mrs Leadsom had faced criticism over the weekend after appearing

:00:49.:00:51.

to suggest she'd make a better leader because she's a mother.

:00:52.:00:57.

We'll have the latest reaction to this breaking story.

:00:58.:01:01.

Angela Eagle is preparing to challenge Jeremy Corbyn

:01:02.:01:03.

His supporters say party members will elect him again -

:01:04.:01:09.

but will he automatically get on the ballot?

:01:10.:01:14.

Tony Blair was not on trial and the Chilcot report passed no

:01:15.:01:17.

verdict on his guilt - but could the Prime Minister

:01:18.:01:19.

who took us into the Iraq War now be held in contempt of parliament?

:01:20.:01:30.

And promises and predictions - who will hold the rival camps

:01:31.:01:33.

to account for the promises and predictions made

:01:34.:01:35.

All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

:01:36.:01:45.

of the programme today Conservative MP and former deputy speaker

:01:46.:01:47.

of the House of Commons, Nigel Evans, and the former

:01:48.:01:50.

Labour Leadership hopeful Chuka Umuna.

:01:51.:01:54.

First this morning that breaking news that Andrea Leadsom

:01:55.:02:03.

is preparing to pull out of the Conservative leadership race.

:02:04.:02:08.

Laura, this is incredible. This is the latest and very dramatic turn of

:02:09.:02:16.

events after a fast-moving weekend of news developments. What has

:02:17.:02:21.

happened? Just when you think you might be able to pause for breath

:02:22.:02:26.

for a single second around an hour and a half ago someone suggested to

:02:27.:02:29.

me it might be worth watching very carefully what Andrea Leadsom was

:02:30.:02:35.

going to be doing today. I suppose my hackles rose like any reporter.

:02:36.:02:39.

She has had a bumpy couple of days after the story in The Times

:02:40.:02:42.

newspaper and Morgan Quaintance suggested she had taken what has

:02:43.:02:46.

happened in the last couple of days so seriously and found the first few

:02:47.:02:49.

days of the leadership race a bruising and so difficult that I

:02:50.:02:54.

understand just in the last 24 hours she has decided to quit. That of

:02:55.:02:57.

course will be a disappointment for many of her supporters, people who

:02:58.:03:03.

had grown to know her and admire her to the course of the EU referendum

:03:04.:03:07.

campaign. More to the point, the big picture is however difficult we will

:03:08.:03:13.

hear it has been for Andrea Leadsom when she comes out in ten minutes or

:03:14.:03:16.

so, this could mean that subject to how the Tory party decides to

:03:17.:03:21.

proceed, potentially within days Theresa May will be installed as

:03:22.:03:24.

Prime Minister. And she will move into Number Ten Downing St and David

:03:25.:03:28.

Cameron will move out. In 1922 Committee of Tory backbenchers has

:03:29.:03:33.

got to decide exactly what happens next. But it seems this means rather

:03:34.:03:38.

than there being a contest and rather than Tory members or anyone

:03:39.:03:42.

around the country having a say, that Theresa May will be subject to

:03:43.:03:47.

a coronation, something that she herself said she did not want to

:03:48.:03:51.

happen. But people do talk about it because she was so far ahead in

:03:52.:03:54.

terms of support within her own party. And she's the only one

:03:55.:03:58.

remaining if Andrea Leadsom says she is dropping out of the race. Do you

:03:59.:04:04.

expect her to make a statement right there for your standing? Expect that

:04:05.:04:08.

at about 12:15pm that she will confirm that she is running out.

:04:09.:04:12.

There had been suggestions that Theresa May should not be the only

:04:13.:04:17.

candidate, she has the overwhelming backing of Tory MPs, almost 200 of

:04:18.:04:23.

them, 60% or so of the Parliamentary party voted for her in the second

:04:24.:04:26.

ballot and they have even been a tradition begun by some Conservative

:04:27.:04:31.

MPs, including Grant Shapps, who was trying to press for this idea of a

:04:32.:04:37.

coronation. If the political moments that we are in, it is because of

:04:38.:04:42.

that, but this is not normal given that just two weeks or so ago, we

:04:43.:04:48.

voted to leave the European Union. We are at a historical junction and

:04:49.:04:53.

that is where the demand for Theresa May just to take over immediately

:04:54.:04:57.

came from. As I say it will be for the 1922 Committee, the internal

:04:58.:05:02.

backbench group of MPs, to decide what the next move is if as we

:05:03.:05:07.

expect, and as this press pack expect, Andrea Leadsom comes out to

:05:08.:05:13.

confirm that she's the race. Many people were disappointed and upset

:05:14.:05:16.

that David Cameron decided immediately that he would step down,

:05:17.:05:19.

the expectation of course is he would stay until September. Once the

:05:20.:05:27.

contest was over. It now seems strange if he then extends that,

:05:28.:05:30.

even though it now is clear that we're going have Theresa May as the

:05:31.:05:35.

next Prime Minister, why not just hand over immediately? Yes, I just

:05:36.:05:44.

lost those last couple of words, but extraordinary to think that just

:05:45.:05:49.

three weeks ago David Cameron repeatedly said, I will not resign

:05:50.:05:52.

if I lose the referendum, there will be no need for me to go. Senior

:05:53.:05:56.

colleagues on both sides of the EU debate said that, that he did not

:05:57.:05:59.

need to quit, even if the two modules referendum result meant

:06:00.:06:03.

leaving the EU. But how wrong they were. He changed his mind, they

:06:04.:06:07.

changed their minds, and now it appears the extent of the shake-up

:06:08.:06:12.

that the referendum has caused right across British politics has upended

:06:13.:06:14.

everything. There will now be no contest. There are of course

:06:15.:06:18.

leadership contest going on all over the place, arguably also the result

:06:19.:06:24.

of the referendum. But for the Tories, there will now just the

:06:25.:06:28.

succession, a handover to Theresa May rather than a contest. I

:06:29.:06:32.

understand from Andrea Leadsom, the main reason she will give today is

:06:33.:06:35.

the pressure and what she sees as the abuse she has been given before,

:06:36.:06:41.

as she decided to run. Of course critics will say if she could not

:06:42.:06:44.

take the pressure of the early days of the leadership campaign, it is

:06:45.:06:48.

not likely she would have been able to handle the pressure of being

:06:49.:06:51.

Prime Minister very well. We will here in a few minutes her

:06:52.:06:55.

explanation in her own words. We are going to hear from her but Kelis a

:06:56.:06:58.

bit about interest you where she made those comments about being a

:06:59.:07:03.

mother and that somehow she would have a greater stake in the future

:07:04.:07:06.

of the country. Theresa May does not have children. That that led to the

:07:07.:07:09.

abuse that this became overwhelming for her. On Friday night The Times

:07:10.:07:17.

newspaper had a dramatic headline following a very long interview one

:07:18.:07:21.

of the senior columnists had carried out with Andrea Leadsom. In that

:07:22.:07:26.

interview she suggested that she had a very real stake in the future

:07:27.:07:31.

because she has a large family. She has talked repeatedly about herself

:07:32.:07:36.

as a mother and grandmother, she has talked about that a lot. When she

:07:37.:07:39.

was invited to suggest comparisons between herself and Theresa May, she

:07:40.:07:45.

was asked why she would be a more persuasive candidate. She suggested

:07:46.:07:50.

that part of that was because of her position as a mother as someone with

:07:51.:07:56.

that kind of empathy and that kind of sympathy. She also said in that

:07:57.:08:00.

interview that she did not want that to become a factor in the leadership

:08:01.:08:04.

campaign, in fact she said it would be horrible people made that an

:08:05.:08:10.

issue in the campaign. But the diplomatic version upset about this

:08:11.:08:14.

is that at best she was being naive. She was not misquoted, her problem

:08:15.:08:19.

was she did not like the way that the Times newspaper had used the

:08:20.:08:22.

comment she made in that lengthy interview. So strange 48 hours, and

:08:23.:08:28.

The Times newspaper even had their journalist out defending the way

:08:29.:08:33.

they used. But for Andrea Leadsom it was probably part of what had been a

:08:34.:08:36.

couple of days of not unusual, but quite bruising encounters with the

:08:37.:08:42.

press. We are just keeping an eye, I think she's about to come out. As

:08:43.:08:49.

soon as she comes out we will duck out of the way. We will carry on

:08:50.:08:57.

talking while she prepares to come out. Here are some members of her

:08:58.:09:01.

team. We expect her to come out in the next couple of minutes. Stay

:09:02.:09:05.

with us but I go first to studio guests while we wait for Andrea

:09:06.:09:09.

Leadsom to come out. Thank you very much for the moment. John Redwood,

:09:10.:09:13.

who supported the leadership of Andrea Leadsom is here. Your

:09:14.:09:19.

reaction? Congratulations to Theresa May and I wish you every success as

:09:20.:09:22.

leader and Prime Minister. I hope she will take on board the things

:09:23.:09:26.

that most excited me about the Andrea Leadsom campaign, one is

:09:27.:09:30.

economic optimism, we have a number of policies and measures but we want

:09:31.:09:33.

the bank and the government to take urgently. The other was a speedy and

:09:34.:09:39.

sensible exit from the EU, by means of primary legislation, sorting out

:09:40.:09:45.

borders the same time. And I would recommend that strongly to her, if

:09:46.:09:51.

she wants to build a united party, we had a voice and a point and I

:09:52.:09:55.

hope that she will take that on board. There is Bernard Jenkin, in

:09:56.:09:59.

Duncan Smith, close supporters of Andrea Leadsom. It looks as if

:10:00.:10:05.

they're lining up outside. And presumably Andrea Leadsom will

:10:06.:10:09.

appear in front of them and the gathered press to talk about why she

:10:10.:10:13.

has decided to pull out at this critical time of the and in fact has

:10:14.:10:19.

left the path open for Theresa May to some extent to be anointed as the

:10:20.:10:23.

next Conservative leader and Prime Minister. What we do not know at the

:10:24.:10:29.

moment exactly is how the process will unfold. And we have yet to hear

:10:30.:10:38.

probably from the 1922 chair. The sooner the better, I hope, the

:10:39.:10:41.

advantage is that we foreshortened the debate. That will have to be

:10:42.:10:46.

confirmed. Of course we hope to hear from Graham Brady, head of the 1922

:10:47.:10:50.

Committee that he will be able to plant exactly what will happen. He

:10:51.:10:54.

will probably make a statement at around 12:30pm outside the Houses of

:10:55.:10:59.

Parliament. And that will set out and clarify exactly what will

:11:00.:11:04.

happen. Let's see if this is Andrea Leadsom. No, more of her supporters

:11:05.:11:11.

coming out. Tim Walton, I do not think they can fit that many more

:11:12.:11:15.

people on the steps! This was the decision that she made overnight.

:11:16.:11:19.

She has not had that much time to think about it. As we heard from our

:11:20.:11:25.

political editor the abuse that followed the interview that she gave

:11:26.:11:29.

at the weekend seemed to have become too great for her. And the scrutiny

:11:30.:11:34.

would have continued as would be expected of someone who wants to be

:11:35.:11:38.

Prime Minister and leader of the Conservative Party. Let's see if

:11:39.:11:42.

this is Andrea Leadsom. Yes. Let's hear what she has decided. Good

:11:43.:11:54.

morning. Good morning, everyone. This morning I have written a letter

:11:55.:12:00.

to Graham Brady the chair of the 1922 Committee, and I would like to

:12:01.:12:05.

read it to you. The best interests of our country inspired me to stand

:12:06.:12:13.

for the leadership. I believe that in leading -- leaving the EU, a

:12:14.:12:18.

bright future awaits were all our people can share in a new

:12:19.:12:21.

prosperity, freedom and democracy. The referendum result demonstrated a

:12:22.:12:27.

clear desire for change. Strong leadership is needed urgently to

:12:28.:12:31.

begin the work of withdrawing from the European Union. Nine weeks

:12:32.:12:37.

leadership campaign at such a critical moment for our country is

:12:38.:12:43.

highly undesirable. Business needs certainty. A strong and unified

:12:44.:12:52.

government must move quickly to set out what an independent, United

:12:53.:12:56.

Kingdom framework for business looks like. It is also essential that

:12:57.:13:05.

current EU workers in the UK and the businesses that employ them know

:13:06.:13:10.

where they stand. The Conservative Party was elected only last year

:13:11.:13:15.

with a strong manifesto of the we now need a new Prime Minister in

:13:16.:13:19.

place as soon as possible, committed to fulfilling that manifesto as well

:13:20.:13:24.

as implementing the clear instructions from the referendum.

:13:25.:13:30.

Theresa May carries over 60% of support from the Parliamentary

:13:31.:13:35.

party. She is ideally placed to implement Brexit on the best

:13:36.:13:39.

possible terms for the British people. And she has promised that

:13:40.:13:45.

she will do so. For me personally to have won the support of 84 of my

:13:46.:13:50.

colleagues last Thursday was a great expression of confidence for which I

:13:51.:13:56.

am incredibly grateful. Nevertheless this is less than 25% of the

:13:57.:14:02.

Parliamentary party and after careful consideration I do not

:14:03.:14:07.

believe that this is sufficient support to lead a strong and stable

:14:08.:14:11.

government, should I win the leadership election. There is no

:14:12.:14:18.

greater privilege than to lead the Conservative Party in government.

:14:19.:14:21.

And I would have been deeply honoured to do it. I have however

:14:22.:14:28.

concluded that the interests of our country are best served by the

:14:29.:14:34.

immediate appointment of a strong and well supported Prime Minister.

:14:35.:14:39.

I'm therefore withdrawing from the leadership election and I wish

:14:40.:14:42.

Theresa May the very greatest success. I assure her of my full

:14:43.:14:45.

support. Thank you very much. Her Andrea Leadsom, was it a mistake

:14:46.:15:02.

to run? Why have you changed your mind, Mrs Leadsom? Andrea Leadsom

:15:03.:15:08.

giving a statement it up she read out the letters she has sent to the

:15:09.:15:12.

chairman of the 1922 committee, who will be the person who will announce

:15:13.:15:16.

the timetable that will lead to Theresa May becoming leader of the

:15:17.:15:20.

party and then Prime Minister. To take you through some of the

:15:21.:15:23.

comments she made, she said that having left the EU, or the British

:15:24.:15:27.

people having decided to leave the EU, a bright future awaits and

:15:28.:15:30.

strong leadership is needed. She said she felt the mind week campaign

:15:31.:15:37.

would be highly undesirable because business needs certainty. -- nine

:15:38.:15:40.

week. She has changed around him and slightly because she felt that

:15:41.:15:43.

actually it would have been fine to spend a few months with a leadership

:15:44.:15:46.

contest that would have been but at the grassroots but lets talk to

:15:47.:15:50.

Laura Coombs BOE, our political editor, who was trying to ask some

:15:51.:15:54.

questions of Andrea Leadsom. -- Laura Coombs Berg. If you can hear

:15:55.:16:00.

me, what did you make of the reasons she gave in terms of saying that

:16:01.:16:03.

long campaign would have been undesirable when what the country

:16:04.:16:06.

needs is strongly do ship, and business needs certainty? I think as

:16:07.:16:13.

ever, I suspect there will be public reasons and private reasons. Her

:16:14.:16:16.

public reasons were very clear. She said that a long contest, nine weeks

:16:17.:16:19.

stretching out over the summer, was not the right thing the moment for

:16:20.:16:23.

the country and in the wake of our vote to leave the European Union,

:16:24.:16:27.

and she referred to Theresa May having the overwhelming backing of

:16:28.:16:32.

Conservative MPs, over 60% of them, and that will have weighed on Andrea

:16:33.:16:37.

Leadsom's mine. Privately, people who are close to her have told me

:16:38.:16:40.

this morning that the abuse she felt she had been getting from some of

:16:41.:16:44.

her colleagues and the press attention had been too much. As ever

:16:45.:16:47.

in politics, there will be a combination of reasons that changed

:16:48.:16:52.

her mind but in Andrea Leadsom's words, she wants a swift appointment

:16:53.:16:57.

of Theresa May to become an extra minister and she has decided to

:16:58.:17:01.

withdraw from the race. Laura Kuenssberg, thank you very much. We

:17:02.:17:04.

will let you try to get some work that of Andrea Leadsom.

:17:05.:17:08.

John Redwood, you must have been disappointed. She was your woman and

:17:09.:17:12.

she has stood down. I am disappointed but it shows why I

:17:13.:17:15.

like. Decent and honest and cheese but the national interest before her

:17:16.:17:26.

own ambitions. -- she has put. Her campaign, supported by me, was about

:17:27.:17:31.

early and smooth exit from the EU by an international legislation, not

:17:32.:17:35.

getting too entangled in all these procedures that the EU wants to

:17:36.:17:39.

enforce on us, and being optimistic when there is blended to be

:17:40.:17:42.

optimistic about an economic prospects and cheaper bows first and

:17:43.:17:46.

foremost. Was she naive to run in the first place? The abuse that you

:17:47.:17:51.

been talking about and the unhappiness about quite a lot of

:17:52.:17:56.

Tory MPs is a factor because we've seen what happens in the Labour

:17:57.:17:59.

Party when the MPs don't agree with the members of the view of the

:18:00.:18:02.

number should. She was very worried that she would win the membership,

:18:03.:18:06.

which she might well have done, but not carried of the MPs with her and

:18:07.:18:10.

makes it very difficult. Should she have run in the first place? Did she

:18:11.:18:14.

not have enough experience? Was naive to think that she could have a

:18:15.:18:18.

chance at not just leading the party by becoming Prime Minister? Very

:18:19.:18:20.

different from David Cameron and other leaders who have become leader

:18:21.:18:26.

and become Leader of the Opposition? I believe in democratic petition and

:18:27.:18:30.

I don't expect to be on the winning side. I have been on the losing side

:18:31.:18:34.

are great number of times. It is a way of making your case and

:18:35.:18:36.

influencing policy and we now wish to convert this into a win for the

:18:37.:18:40.

nation because the main points she was putting forward are vital to a

:18:41.:18:43.

successful Premiership by Theresa May, which is what we now all wish

:18:44.:18:49.

for. Nigel Evans, she did say very clearly in that letter that she read

:18:50.:18:54.

out that Theresa May is ideally placed to execute Brexit, and she

:18:55.:19:00.

has promised to do so. In that is an implicit threat, isn't there, but

:19:01.:19:05.

you have promised to do, even as a remain in the EU referendum, but you

:19:06.:19:09.

have promised, Theresa May, to do the right thing and carry out the

:19:10.:19:12.

will of the people. Did you sense that from her comments? Absolutely.

:19:13.:19:17.

I spoke to Theresa may just over a week ago and I talked to her about

:19:18.:19:22.

Brexit. I'm a Brexiteer and I want to see this happen as quickly as

:19:23.:19:26.

possible. I want to see the wishes of the British people carried out

:19:27.:19:28.

and I got that commitment from Theresa and that's why I was happy

:19:29.:19:32.

to support Theresa May. She said she is going to but a Brexiteer in

:19:33.:19:35.

charge of the withdrawal of the European Union. That now needs to

:19:36.:19:40.

happen. And this expression is Nigel being gobsmacked. Who says politics

:19:41.:19:45.

is boring? At the moment, I would not want to predict what's going to

:19:46.:19:48.

happen in the next five minutes, never mind the next 24 hours.

:19:49.:19:54.

Congratulations to Theresa May. I am absolutely certain she will make a

:19:55.:20:02.

great Prime Minister. Jeremy Corbyn would dream of 84 members! 84 is a

:20:03.:20:11.

substantial number and the party will now unite behind Theresa May

:20:12.:20:17.

and absolutely support her in withdrawing the United Kingdom from

:20:18.:20:20.

the European Union as quickly as possible. I know Graham Brady is

:20:21.:20:23.

going to make a speech at the moment. I'm secretary of the 1922

:20:24.:20:27.

and I did chat to the vice-chairman just before coming on the air

:20:28.:20:30.

because this is uncharted water. Did you get a sense of what is going to

:20:31.:20:36.

say? No, inasmuch as he has taught already to the permanent secretary.

:20:37.:20:39.

You only have to wait ten more minutes to find out what the

:20:40.:20:43.

procedure is going to be but like John, I want this now to happen as

:20:44.:20:48.

quickly as possible and the 1922 didn't want it to drag out to the

:20:49.:20:52.

9th of September. We wanted it to be a far tighter win and one of the

:20:53.:20:56.

reasons Andrea has used is that we can now get on with the process of

:20:57.:21:00.

government and I think that now needs to happen as quickly as

:21:01.:21:05.

possible. Let's look at this in contrast to the Labour Party in

:21:06.:21:08.

terms of leadership contests. They sorted it out, the Conservative

:21:09.:21:11.

Party. There is now going to be, and we know who it is, a new leader and

:21:12.:21:15.

Prime Minister. Why can't the Labour Party sought itself out? We are

:21:16.:21:19.

going to have a contest now because there has been a challenge. It was

:21:20.:21:22.

going to be launched at the double bass programme. Who knows? Things

:21:23.:21:28.

change every hour. There will be a challenge in the Labour Party. Can I

:21:29.:21:32.

say something about the politics of this, in the spectre of Andrea, who

:21:33.:21:38.

I know very well? I like her personally very much. I disagree

:21:39.:21:41.

with her fundamentally on a lot of things and from my own experience, I

:21:42.:21:44.

think one of the things this illustrates is that if you are going

:21:45.:21:49.

to launch - and I speak from personal experience 2- a leadership

:21:50.:21:52.

campaign, it helps if you've spent many months preparing at Aberdeen

:21:53.:21:57.

basin of the structure. Did you have sympathy if it was a case of too

:21:58.:22:00.

much but because it was the sort of thing you experienced? I wasn't

:22:01.:22:05.

preparing to run a leadership contest, I was preparing to run a

:22:06.:22:09.

business, innovation and skills department Inan Ed Miliband

:22:10.:22:12.

government and Theresa May has been planning this for some time. She

:22:13.:22:22.

wasn't very present on the field of the EU referendum campaign. I think

:22:23.:22:25.

part of the reason she didn't do so was a tactical reason in order to

:22:26.:22:29.

win a potential leadership contest but two things I would say. A

:22:30.:22:33.

Theresa May government is going to be dominated by Brexiteers. It will

:22:34.:22:37.

be a Vote Leave government in essence. And I still think that

:22:38.:22:40.

Theresa may has a lot to prove in showing that she can unify the

:22:41.:22:44.

country and I just think of the disgraceful role she played in the

:22:45.:22:48.

Islam phobia campaign that was waged against Sadiq Khan in the London

:22:49.:22:52.

mayoral election. I think she has a lot to prove on that front. Will be

:22:53.:22:58.

discussing that and a lot more detail now we know she is going to

:22:59.:23:01.

be bid and Prime Minister. Just briefly to you, will you all unite

:23:02.:23:06.

behind Theresa May? Will there be any problem, do you think, with Tory

:23:07.:23:10.

MPs who are disappointed about Andrea Leadsom dropping out? I hope

:23:11.:23:17.

not that I thought we had two very good winning candidates. We were

:23:18.:23:20.

going to have a democratic argument but we are now in the position we

:23:21.:23:25.

are in. We all had goodwill but there will be rebellions from time

:23:26.:23:29.

to time, as there are under all leaders. Some of them will be from

:23:30.:23:32.

her own supporters, I suspect, because they won't all be satisfied.

:23:33.:23:36.

She's now got to balance the ticket and I do sincerely recommend to her

:23:37.:23:41.

those two fundamental issues from our campaign, economic optimism. We

:23:42.:23:44.

need to lift spirits and tell people there is not going to be a

:23:45.:23:47.

recession, we can get through this fine things are going to be much

:23:48.:23:51.

better. We can be more prosperous, and we need to have a smooth exit

:23:52.:23:55.

which I think means doing it at pace. Doing it right now? OK, thank

:23:56.:23:58.

you. So Angela Eagle is launching her

:23:59.:24:01.

challenge for the Labour leadership She says she wants to "heal

:24:02.:24:04.

the party" to give them a chance of winning

:24:05.:24:08.

the next general election. Also sharing his views on the Labour

:24:09.:24:10.

leadership this morning has been Unite General Secretary Len

:24:11.:24:13.

McCluskey - and he had some strong words for those who want to get rid

:24:14.:24:16.

of Jeremy Corbyn, calling it This was an attempted

:24:17.:24:19.

political lynching. Designed to bully and bludgeon

:24:20.:24:26.

Jeremy Corbyn, this deeply decent and kind man,

:24:27.:24:30.

out of the job This is not just about

:24:31.:24:32.

Jeremy Corbyn and his position, the coup has

:24:33.:24:39.

snowballed into a wrecking Labour Party itself, destroying it

:24:40.:24:41.

at least temporarily, as a The big question in all

:24:42.:24:47.

of is whether current leader Jeremy will automatically be on the ballot

:24:48.:24:56.

paper in a new leadership contest - with both sides arguing

:24:57.:25:00.

a different case. Angela Eagle says she expects

:25:01.:25:06.

Jeremy Corbyn to have to be nominated by 20% of Labour MPs

:25:07.:25:09.

and MEPs in the same way that The precedent for this

:25:10.:25:12.

is Tony Benn's challenge to Neil Kinnock's leadership

:25:13.:25:19.

in 1988, when Kinnock had to gather endorsements from members

:25:20.:25:21.

of the Parliamentary Labour Party But Mr Corbyn and his supporters say

:25:22.:25:23.

things have changed since then and that as the incumbent

:25:24.:25:32.

he will automatically be They say the party rules state

:25:33.:25:34.

that it is only "challengers" to the leadership who are required

:25:35.:25:45.

to collect nominations and that they have legal advice

:25:46.:25:47.

to back up this view. Now that Angela Eagle has triggered

:25:48.:25:49.

the process it is possible other challengers will emerge -

:25:50.:25:52.

former Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Owen Smith is yet

:25:53.:25:54.

to decide whether to run himself. It is the party's National Executive

:25:55.:26:00.

Committee who must make the final decision regarding the nominations

:26:01.:26:03.

process and the timetable for the election -

:26:04.:26:05.

they are expected to meet tomorrow. Other questions surround the current

:26:06.:26:09.

membership of the Labour Party - over 100,000 people have joined

:26:10.:26:13.

the party since the EU referendum - many stating their support

:26:14.:26:21.

for Jeremy Corbyn. Once a leadership contest starts

:26:22.:26:24.

the party will allow people to become "registered supporters" -

:26:25.:26:29.

a system introduced for the contest last year which allows people

:26:30.:26:32.

to vote in the leadership ballot by Let's speak to the Samuel Townend

:26:33.:26:35.

from the Society of Labour Lawyers, who has given legal advice

:26:36.:26:45.

to the party in the past. Welcome to the programme. What is

:26:46.:26:53.

your legal opinion on the rules? Does Jeremy Corbyn need to get the

:26:54.:26:57.

requisite nominations or not, to be on the ballot paper? The truth is,

:26:58.:27:01.

Jo, that the rules are unclear on that point. Oh. Although there is

:27:02.:27:08.

one part of the rules which says that potential challenges require

:27:09.:27:11.

20% of the European and Parliamentary Labour Party to

:27:12.:27:13.

nominate, there are other parts of the rules which talk about how

:27:14.:27:18.

nominees have to present their nominations to the general secretary

:27:19.:27:25.

in order to stand. So there is no doubt differing legal views given on

:27:26.:27:29.

that point. So in the end it will be a political decision, if you like?

:27:30.:27:33.

It will come down to the ruling executive who will decide, I presume

:27:34.:27:37.

from what you've said. Have you seen the legal advice that has been given

:27:38.:27:41.

to Iain MacCormick all, who is the general secretary of the Labour

:27:42.:27:44.

Party, which states that Corbyn does need those nominations? No, I

:27:45.:27:50.

haven't. The only legal advice available was an Jeremy Corbyn's

:27:51.:27:53.

Twitter feed last night and I think it's been on the Huffington Post a

:27:54.:27:58.

week or so ago, which was very clear and unambiguously stating that he

:27:59.:28:04.

does not require the nominations. However, it also goes from a legal

:28:05.:28:09.

point of view too far, in my view, in that it says it is an arguable

:28:10.:28:13.

that it requires the nominations. But the rules themselves do not

:28:14.:28:16.

address the position where you have an incumbent leader and whether or

:28:17.:28:20.

not he or she requires the nominations. So it can't be an

:28:21.:28:26.

arguable. There is an argument to be had and that, as you say, will be,

:28:27.:28:30.

at least initially, determined by the NEC, which I understand is

:28:31.:28:35.

meeting tomorrow. So just to be clear, the body of opinion in the

:28:36.:28:39.

Labour Party that says he has to be on the ballot paper, that is not

:28:40.:28:44.

necessarily the case? It could be argued that he could be kept off,

:28:45.:28:48.

which, as you say, leaves it ambiguous in terms of any sort of

:28:49.:28:53.

legal challenge. Because the key passage from the rule book reads,

:28:54.:28:56.

"Where there is no vacancy, nominations may be sought by

:28:57.:28:59.

potential challenges each year prior to the annual session of party

:29:00.:29:04.

conference". In this case any nomination must be aborted by 20% of

:29:05.:29:10.

the combined members of the PLP and the EPL pee, which is the European

:29:11.:29:15.

Parliament rebate the party. "Any nomination," in your reading of it,

:29:16.:29:19.

does that mean anyone, or is that assuming that the incumbent isn't

:29:20.:29:23.

included? The legal advice goes both ways on that, I suspect. So

:29:24.:29:28.

ultimately, as you say, it will be a political decision for the NEC

:29:29.:29:33.

tomorrow, albeit that they will take legal advice. I understand that

:29:34.:29:38.

legal advice has been given to the party but as I say, I don't know

:29:39.:29:43.

what it says. And then ultimately, if the worst comes to the worst, the

:29:44.:29:49.

disgruntled side, which ever it might be, may decide to pursue

:29:50.:29:52.

matters further in the courts. Thank you very much.

:29:53.:29:57.

A few minutes ago Angela Eagle launched her leadership bid. Let's

:29:58.:30:05.

have a listen. These are dark times for the Labour Party and dangerous

:30:06.:30:11.

times for our country. A referendum designed to settle an argument in

:30:12.:30:15.

the Conservative Party has resulted in the country being torn apart. Our

:30:16.:30:25.

economy damaged. Our society hurt. And at this time with a failed Prime

:30:26.:30:32.

Minister and a tiny number of Conservative Party members choosing

:30:33.:30:38.

the next one, our country needs a strong Labour Party. We alone can

:30:39.:30:45.

hold this right-wing Tory government to account and then replace it by

:30:46.:30:51.

winning a general election. APPLAUSE .

:30:52.:31:03.

Jeremy Corbyn is unable to provide the leadership that this huge task

:31:04.:31:12.

needs. I believe that I can. Angela Eagle launching her leadership bid.

:31:13.:31:17.

Saying that Jeremy Corbyn does not have the leadership skills to

:31:18.:31:22.

continue in the role. Christine Shawcross, who sits on the national

:31:23.:31:28.

ruling executive, known as the NEC, joins us now. You're on the NEC,

:31:29.:31:33.

we've just heard from Samuel talent the lawyer who said it would be up

:31:34.:31:36.

to the NEC to interpret the leadership rules. In your mind, Ayew

:31:37.:31:42.

clear that Jeremy Corbyn is on the ballot paper? I think it is clear

:31:43.:31:47.

from those rules, when the rules were tidied up in the late 1990s,

:31:48.:31:52.

the paper that went to conference had the explanation column and this

:31:53.:31:55.

requires potential challengers to get nominations. This is papers that

:31:56.:32:01.

went to conference and it refers only to potential challengers. But

:32:02.:32:09.

he said it is arguable, and in this case it says any nominations must be

:32:10.:32:13.

supported by 20% of all the members in parliament and in Europe. Do you

:32:14.:32:17.

accept that? But it's clearly refers to the sentence before which talks

:32:18.:32:23.

about challengers leading nominations and that any nomination

:32:24.:32:28.

must get 20%. So the rules are perfectly clear. Does everyone agree

:32:29.:32:33.

with you on the NEC, I understand it is evenly split? I have not seen

:32:34.:32:39.

this, we have not had legal advice or any recommendations out yet we

:32:40.:32:43.

will have to see what is put to the meeting. When you see both sets of

:32:44.:32:49.

legal advice as members of the NEC at the meeting tomorrow? I should

:32:50.:32:55.

imagine so. There will be a report. We have the advice that Jeremy

:32:56.:33:00.

Corbyn is automatically on the paper in any case. That is the advice that

:33:01.:33:05.

has been presented to Ian Nichol. If you cannot agree, you know the

:33:06.:33:10.

members of the NEC, you know how they will split in terms of voting,

:33:11.:33:15.

what will happen if you cannot agree? I think there are enough

:33:16.:33:19.

people on the NEC, whether they supported Jeremy Arnott, to

:33:20.:33:22.

understand that the party expect the Democratic contest and anything that

:33:23.:33:26.

looks like it is keeping someone off a ballot paper deliberately, this

:33:27.:33:30.

will not go down well with the membership and people on the NEC

:33:31.:33:35.

will understand that. What do you say to that, Chuka Umuna, should he

:33:36.:33:40.

be on the ballot paper? I'm a lawyer, I have read the rules and it

:33:41.:33:46.

is not clear what the rules say. And to pretend otherwise is absurd.

:33:47.:33:49.

Essentially the NEC will make a political decision on this. You have

:33:50.:33:55.

the Parliamentary party of MPs, we are Parliamentary party, we believe

:33:56.:33:58.

in implementing socialism through Parliament and that is why it

:33:59.:34:01.

matters whether or not your reader can command the confidence of its

:34:02.:34:06.

MPs. MPs by the way you have a mandate from 9.3 million Labour

:34:07.:34:09.

voters. You have a problem in the sense that we've got to reconcile

:34:10.:34:13.

that mandate that they have from 9.3 million Labour voters with the

:34:14.:34:18.

mandate he has fun children 31,000 members and that is why this process

:34:19.:34:20.

should hopefully enable to reconcile those. I take issue with Len

:34:21.:34:26.

McCluskey, by the way. I will come to that in a second. First the

:34:27.:34:31.

response from Christine Shawcross about the legitimacy of MPs being a

:34:32.:34:37.

parliamentary deadlock city and without their support Jeremy Corbyn

:34:38.:34:41.

is not illegitimate leader. -- democracy. The rank-and-file

:34:42.:34:45.

membership one to work with the Parliamentary Labour Party. We

:34:46.:34:50.

support MPs and we feel many of them older position to us doing a lot of

:34:51.:34:54.

that leafleting and knocking on doors. If we are to respect the

:34:55.:34:58.

Parliamentary Labour Party it needs to be a two-way process. They need

:34:59.:35:01.

to respect the democratic decision that was made barely ten months ago.

:35:02.:35:06.

What I would say in respect of Christina, I have known her for some

:35:07.:35:10.

time and know that she is a campaigner and goes out on the

:35:11.:35:13.

doorsteps and has done the work for the Labour Party. Luckily I see a

:35:14.:35:17.

lot of new people who have come into the party who often have been

:35:18.:35:20.

members of other parties especially the Green Party, socialist workers

:35:21.:35:27.

party, who come in and tell existing members in my constituency party who

:35:28.:35:31.

do all the work, off you go. We're not doing that and that is why there

:35:32.:35:34.

is an area of agreement I have with Diane Abbott is money when she spoke

:35:35.:35:39.

of a split in the Labour Party. There is not going to be a split. I

:35:40.:35:44.

do not see how Ondray first past the post electoral system which we must

:35:45.:35:49.

abolish and in my view replace with abortion or representation, how the

:35:50.:35:54.

new party could come into being. And further to be a split it would

:35:55.:35:57.

require people like me to walk away. I have been a member and have worked

:35:58.:36:03.

hard to get Labour government elected, working hard on civil

:36:04.:36:06.

partnerships and the rest, in the face of people campaigning to stop

:36:07.:36:10.

us doing that, for 20 years. I'm not walking away from my party at this

:36:11.:36:15.

junction and for people who have been members just for two minutes,

:36:16.:36:20.

saying the Labour Party can no longer be a broad church. It is

:36:21.:36:23.

straightforward. And statements from people like Len McCluskey, I presume

:36:24.:36:29.

he's speaking about Chuka Umuna, speaking of bullying the Labour

:36:30.:36:33.

Party and being a lynch mob, is that the sort of language you think will

:36:34.:36:38.

unite the party? It is a disgrace, that language. I am a member of the

:36:39.:36:42.

Labour Party and have been twice as long as Chuka Umuna. I have seen the

:36:43.:36:49.

branches being integrated with now twice as many people active in my

:36:50.:36:52.

branch of the Labour Party, coming to the meetings and doing all the

:36:53.:36:56.

work, going out on doorsteps. There has been talk about this but I think

:36:57.:37:02.

his people returning, not entering. People left over the Iraq War. The

:37:03.:37:08.

kind of bullying and intimidation that we have not seen for a long

:37:09.:37:12.

time in the Labour Party stop piracy issue that people have on the

:37:13.:37:17.

current leadership is competent. We had a vote last Monday and were

:37:18.:37:23.

instructed to abstain on an increase in employment tribunal fees. I ask

:37:24.:37:27.

what the Labour Party is doing abstaining on a vote like this. And

:37:28.:37:34.

then too late in the day, the whip was slightly changed and we did

:37:35.:37:38.

nothing on that issue. If I was Business Secretary, if we had won

:37:39.:37:41.

the election last year, we would have abolished the very unfair and

:37:42.:37:45.

unjust employment tribunal fees scheme. That harms members of the

:37:46.:37:53.

Unite union. And nothing was done about it on Monday so I'm not

:37:54.:37:57.

surprised why you have half of the Unite union members saying they want

:37:58.:38:02.

to see change. In the end it is not the members who suffer about the

:38:03.:38:04.

communities that the Labour Party was set up to serve, hard-working

:38:05.:38:08.

people who need a Labour government implement promoting their values.

:38:09.:38:11.

There is a charge of incompetence, or lacking leadership skills, to win

:38:12.:38:16.

the next election. You believe that Jeremy Corbyn can win the next

:38:17.:38:21.

general election? Absolutely. They have been a lot of reverses against

:38:22.:38:25.

the Tories was Jamie has been leader, we have won by-elections

:38:26.:38:29.

with increased majorities. The man is brave and principled, honest and

:38:30.:38:32.

inspiring, he inspired all these members to join the Labour Party,

:38:33.:38:36.

for more than other political party put together. Why then cannot

:38:37.:38:43.

convince MPs like Chuka Umuna, if it is so clear in your mind and so many

:38:44.:38:48.

new members, why is 80% of the Parliamentary party accusing him of

:38:49.:38:52.

being a poor leader? At the last two general elections we lost with

:38:53.:38:58.

policies very much on the austerity light, Tory light theme. That is

:38:59.:39:04.

ridiculous. What was that about heckling and bullying! That is why

:39:05.:39:07.

the Labour Party membership were keen to have a different kind of

:39:08.:39:12.

politician leading us. John McDonnell has just adopted exactly

:39:13.:39:16.

the same economic position in respect of our fiscal policy as Ed

:39:17.:39:20.

Balls and to suggest that somehow we're standing on an austerity like

:39:21.:39:28.

Digg it is ridiculous. We would have introduced a blacklisting enquiry,

:39:29.:39:30.

which the Conservatives refuse to do, would have introduced more

:39:31.:39:33.

stringent rules on zero hours contrast. -- contract. I would

:39:34.:39:40.

project this version that we are warmed up version of the Tory party.

:39:41.:39:48.

How dare anyone suggest that. We're saying we are going to make cuts as

:39:49.:39:53.

well, not as bad as the Tory party but making cuts. No wonder that

:39:54.:39:56.

working-class people are not inspired. But of course John

:39:57.:40:02.

McDonnell has said he would have hands-on economic competence, that

:40:03.:40:04.

he would instruct some cuts to be made. Was he wrong? I think there is

:40:05.:40:09.

a big difference, every difference in the world between the kind of

:40:10.:40:12.

policies on which we fought the last two general elections, and the kind

:40:13.:40:16.

of policies that the later leadership are now espousing. --

:40:17.:40:22.

Labour leadership. You are fundamentally disagreeing, you say

:40:23.:40:25.

you will not walk away from the party but would not be better to

:40:26.:40:29.

allow Jeremy Corbyn to be on the ballot paper, define that leadership

:40:30.:40:32.

contest and if you believe so strongly that members will support

:40:33.:40:36.

your view, then win the leadership contest. Do you back Angela Eagle

:40:37.:40:41.

question mark I'm pleased Angela has challenged and think it was right

:40:42.:40:44.

for people in the party to say if the Parliamentary Labour Party has

:40:45.:40:47.

no confidence, where is the challenger. I welcome the challenge

:40:48.:40:51.

from Angela Eagle and think we should have a robust debate. In the

:40:52.:40:55.

end I do not know, I think this will be a political decision. What do you

:40:56.:40:59.

think that he should be on the ballot paper? I think we should

:41:00.:41:03.

follow the rules we have, but you need to get nominations. He accepted

:41:04.:41:07.

that. And let's not forget, when you'll connect was challenged for

:41:08.:41:10.

the leadership back in the day, Jeremy Corbyn was one of the leading

:41:11.:41:16.

people to challenge him. And they seem to demand that you'll connect

:41:17.:41:21.

get nominations then so it seems slightly contradictory now to say

:41:22.:41:23.

that because Germany is in the leader 's office, he should not also

:41:24.:41:30.

had to stand. Well you can chose to get those nominations, it is not

:41:31.:41:34.

clear whether he had to. When you have got little parties, we are not

:41:35.:41:38.

protest groups, I believe, I do not agree, I think the leader of

:41:39.:41:44.

momentum yesterday said winning elections. Not matter but I think

:41:45.:41:48.

winning elections and implemented Labour values are mutually dependent

:41:49.:41:53.

things. So having a leader who can implement an agenda through the

:41:54.:41:57.

Parliamentary party is so important. Andrea Leadsom could see where the

:41:58.:42:00.

Tories were going to head and that is part of the reason that she

:42:01.:42:03.

pulled out. So you still want Jeremy Corbyn, it seems he will not do that

:42:04.:42:07.

at the moment, he has made it clear that he is going to stand with a

:42:08.:42:11.

powerful union behind him, but in terms of going ahead you think that

:42:12.:42:15.

Angela Eagle would make a better Prime Minister than Jeremy Corbyn?

:42:16.:42:19.

Yes, and I believe people watching this programme not only want a

:42:20.:42:24.

Labour Party which is electable but once a credible opposition, join our

:42:25.:42:28.

party to make it happen because at the moment many people do not think

:42:29.:42:32.

they have a choice of the next general election. Angela Eagle will

:42:33.:42:36.

give them that. If it comes to it and in the end Jeremy Corbyn is not

:42:37.:42:43.

automatically on the ballot paper, will you and others at that stage

:42:44.:42:46.

leaves the Labour Party, and decide it has been a stitch up and break

:42:47.:42:53.

away? We have been through quite a few stitch ups over the past few

:42:54.:42:56.

years and have seen quite a few tweaks to the Labour Party rules

:42:57.:43:01.

since you'll connect's time. Angela Eagle put out a memo to all members

:43:02.:43:04.

saying she respected their views, she would work with whoever they

:43:05.:43:09.

voted for and so on. I voted for her as deputy leader on that basis. And

:43:10.:43:13.

less than a year later she has gone back on that. I think we need a

:43:14.:43:17.

leader that we can trust. And if he's not automatically on the ballot

:43:18.:43:20.

paper and does not get the requisite emanations, what would you do Chris

:43:21.:43:28.

Rock there will be a big campaign, it is impossible to say now what

:43:29.:43:32.

might happen, but certainly I have always encouraged people to stay in

:43:33.:43:35.

the Labour Party and fight for what we believe in. Thank you very much.

:43:36.:43:38.

Back to the news that Andrea Leadsom has pulled out

:43:39.:43:40.

Leaving the field clear for Theresa May to become Prime Minister.

:43:41.:43:51.

Graham Brady, the Chairman of the 1922 Committee which oversees

:43:52.:43:54.

the conduct of Conservative leadership elections,

:43:55.:43:55.

has made this statement in the past few minutes.

:43:56.:43:57.

Following the decision of Mrs Andrea Leadsom to withdraw

:43:58.:44:01.

from the Conservative leadership contest, the

:44:02.:44:02.

right honourable Mrs Theresa May is the only remaining candidate.

:44:03.:44:08.

The process is now that I, as chairman

:44:09.:44:11.

of the 1922 committee, and the board of the Conservative Party, must

:44:12.:44:14.

formally confirm that Mrs May is the new leader

:44:15.:44:17.

I will make a further statement as soon as I am in a

:44:18.:44:23.

I've had a very useful conversation with Rob

:44:24.:44:36.

Semple, and we will be seeking to get

:44:37.:44:38.

answers from the party board during the course of this afternoon.

:44:39.:44:43.

Will Theresa May be Prime Minister by the end of the day?

:44:44.:44:46.

I think we need to respect the process.

:44:47.:44:48.

There are constitutional things which need to be followed as

:44:49.:44:51.

But clearly we are going to be in a position to answer

:44:52.:44:59.

those questions much sooner than we had previously anticipated.

:45:00.:45:01.

Can you give us an idea of how long we might be waiting?

:45:02.:45:04.

Playing a straight bat, Graham Berry Dee outside the Houses of

:45:05.:45:17.

Parliament, stating the obvious, that Theresa May will be premised,

:45:18.:45:21.

it is just a matter of time and working through the due process but

:45:22.:45:24.

as he said, it won't be nine weeks away, it will be much sooner. And of

:45:25.:45:29.

course as soon we know, we will tell you.

:45:30.:45:31.

Now - there were strong criticisms of Tony Blair and his decision

:45:32.:45:35.

to take Britain to war in Iraq in last week's Chilcot Report,

:45:36.:45:38.

but Sir John did not rule on the legality of the war

:45:39.:45:41.

or the former Prime Minister's guilt.

:45:42.:45:43.

But now a cross-party group of MPs is attempting to have Mr Blair held

:45:44.:45:46.

in contempt of Parliament and yesterday on the Andrew Marr

:45:47.:45:48.

Show, Jeremy Corbyn suggested he would be supporting the move.

:45:49.:45:51.

I urge colleagues to read the Butler Report and read

:45:52.:45:54.

the Chilcot Report about the way in which Parliament was denied

:45:55.:45:58.

the information it should have had, the way in which there was lack

:45:59.:46:01.

of preparations for the post-invasion situation

:46:02.:46:02.

in Iraq and the way there were the assertions of weapons

:46:03.:46:05.

Parliament must hold to account, including Tony Blair, those who took

:46:06.:46:09.

That is surely what a Parliamentary democracy is about.

:46:10.:46:13.

Let me try and finish with a yes or no.

:46:14.:46:18.

So vote for the contempt motion, yes or no?

:46:19.:46:20.

Well, I haven't seen it yet but I think I probably would.

:46:21.:46:23.

And we're joined now from Aberdeen by one of those campaigning

:46:24.:46:26.

for Tony Blair to face Contempt of Parliament charges,

:46:27.:46:28.

Alex Salmond, just explain to our viewers, what does content of

:46:29.:46:38.

Parliament actually mean in practice? A contempt motion, if it's

:46:39.:46:45.

carried, then would have a range of potential penalties. It would mean

:46:46.:46:49.

that someone could be dragged to the Baro the House of Commons, it means

:46:50.:46:52.

they could be stripped of their Privy Council ship, it would mean

:46:53.:46:56.

they could be barred from ever holding public office again. The

:46:57.:46:59.

exact range of penalties would be determined by a Commons committee

:47:00.:47:02.

but first you would have to have the verdict before you got the sentence.

:47:03.:47:07.

Right, and in terms of the verdict this would be a motion that would

:47:08.:47:11.

say that Tony Blair had deceived Parliament, is that right? This

:47:12.:47:15.

would be a motion that says exactly that he held Parliament...

:47:16.:47:18.

Parliament holds him in contempt because of his behaviour and it

:47:19.:47:22.

would illustrate the range of evidence for that, which is amply

:47:23.:47:26.

demonstrated in Chilcot. The most powerful aspect in my mind is that

:47:27.:47:32.

over a period of almost 18 months, if you juxtapose the private members

:47:33.:47:37.

that work given to George W Bush, the American president, with the

:47:38.:47:41.

public statements given to Parliament on the people, it is

:47:42.:47:43.

quite clear that Parliament was misled on a series of issues over a

:47:44.:47:47.

series of months. This wasn't a single mistake or two, this was a

:47:48.:47:54.

deliberate campaign of deception, as Jeremy Corbyn rightly said, and dog

:47:55.:47:57.

any Parliament worth its salt must have the courage to rise to the

:47:58.:48:00.

question of Parliamentary accountability. But Sir John Chilcot

:48:01.:48:05.

also said in a report that the legal basis for the walk was reached in a

:48:06.:48:09.

way that was far from satisfactory. He didn't explicitly say it was

:48:10.:48:13.

illegal. He also said clearly that Tony Blair didn't lie, that there

:48:14.:48:17.

wasn't a deliberate intention to take the country to war on a false

:48:18.:48:23.

premise, even though we know now that weapons of mass destruction

:48:24.:48:29.

didn't exist in Iraq. On the first of these, that wasn't within

:48:30.:48:32.

Chilcot's terms of reference to rule the war illegal, as you well know,

:48:33.:48:38.

and as you probably also know, the government is denying a Freedom of

:48:39.:48:41.

Information request at the present moment which would set out what the

:48:42.:48:45.

range of background papers was as to why that was excluded from Chilcot's

:48:46.:48:50.

terms of reference. You greater Chilcot as the background for your

:48:51.:48:53.

motion and he didn't talk about the legality or illegality of the war.

:48:54.:49:00.

He said the legal basis was unsatisfactory but can I just repeat

:49:01.:49:05.

the point, what you require for a contempt motion is to show that over

:49:06.:49:08.

a period of time, the Prime Minister was saying one thing in private to

:49:09.:49:12.

the resident of the United States of America, involving, for example,

:49:13.:49:16.

speculation on Regine changed toward the end of 2001 doc by the summer of

:49:17.:49:21.

2002, he was committing himself unconditionally to be with the

:49:22.:49:26.

President of America come what may and by the spring of 2003,

:49:27.:49:34.

princesses were going on in the United Nations which Chilcot

:49:35.:49:36.

described as undermining the authority of the United Nations.

:49:37.:49:41.

These juxtapose with what he was saying to Parliament and to people.

:49:42.:49:44.

What he was saying to Parliament was something else entirely. He was

:49:45.:49:49.

saying to Parliament that this war was not about regime change, it was

:49:50.:49:52.

about weapons of mass destruction. He gave knowing the mission that he

:49:53.:49:57.

committed himself to war, the contrary he said he was striving for

:49:58.:50:02.

peace. On the United Nations he told parliament that he would only go

:50:03.:50:05.

against the will of the night of nations if there was an unreasonable

:50:06.:50:09.

veto from a single country. All of these areas, over a period of time,

:50:10.:50:13.

he was misleading parliament by saying one thing in private to the

:50:14.:50:17.

American president and another thing totally in public to Parliament and

:50:18.:50:22.

the people. That is contempt. Let's about a Chuka Umunna. Is there

:50:23.:50:26.

enough evidence, as Alex and has set out, to show that Tony Blair misled

:50:27.:50:30.

Parliament on number of occasions? I think Chilcot is inconclusive on

:50:31.:50:37.

that and I think Alex Salmond is in no better position than Chilcot to

:50:38.:50:40.

pass judgment on the legality or not. He is not just fighting the

:50:41.:50:45.

legality. Alex Salmond is citing a whole range of issues. Most of the

:50:46.:50:50.

people who cite that cite the summit between the president of the USA and

:50:51.:50:54.

Tony Blair in Crawford, Texas. We will be with you whatever, he said

:50:55.:50:58.

that memo. He was accused of committing to taking military action

:50:59.:51:01.

whatever and that was denied there was apparently no evidence for it,

:51:02.:51:05.

according the Chilcot Report. I wasn't in Parliament at the time. I

:51:06.:51:08.

fundamentally disagreed with the decision to go to war because I

:51:09.:51:12.

didn't feel it was a last resort I felt the weapons inspectors should

:51:13.:51:15.

be given more time to do their work. At the time, I wasn't a public

:51:16.:51:18.

figure, I wasn't on the record as saying this, but that was my

:51:19.:51:22.

position. But I think the most important thing, given all the death

:51:23.:51:25.

and bloodshed, is that we learn lessons from the mistakes that were

:51:26.:51:28.

made and they are never repeated again and I think that would be far

:51:29.:51:32.

more useful for us. If this motion is passed off contempt, I'm not too

:51:33.:51:37.

sure what it really achieves. That's the issue. Is this posturing or are

:51:38.:51:40.

we actually trying to make sure that we don't have bloodshed in the

:51:41.:51:44.

future but also that where we believe we can make a difference and

:51:45.:51:51.

reduce blood to the world by acting to terribly, that people feel they

:51:52.:51:54.

can take that decision. Where does this get us? Where does it get us,

:51:55.:52:00.

Alex Salmond? We've had seven years way to the Chilcot Report. Was

:52:01.:52:04.

thorough, it was fairly conclusive in terms of the blame at it laid the

:52:05.:52:07.

doors of many, many people including Tony Blair. Is that not now the end

:52:08.:52:15.

of it? Let me help Chuka Umunna with his evidence. If he reads even the

:52:16.:52:19.

summary on page 34, a memo from Jack Straw to Tony Blair, which reads,

:52:20.:52:25.

"When Bush graciously accepted your offer to be with him all the way,"

:52:26.:52:31.

and if he bothers to read the full report, as I have done, he will find

:52:32.:52:38.

ample evidence. To answer the question about why we should do

:52:39.:52:42.

this, there is a question beyond the processes of government to one of

:52:43.:52:49.

Parliamentary accountability because, I was in Parliament and on

:52:50.:52:53.

the record, against the Iraq war on every possible occasion. I accept as

:52:54.:52:58.

a collective responsibility of Parliament to critically examine

:52:59.:53:01.

what we are being fed by the Executive of the date and one of the

:53:02.:53:05.

ways you can establish that is to show that Parliament believes in

:53:06.:53:08.

that process of accountability now and just as we should accept

:53:09.:53:11.

collective responsible is evil Parliamentary failures, you

:53:12.:53:14.

illustrate that by holding those who misled Parliament to account, so

:53:15.:53:19.

that a sequence of events such as the Iraq disaster never happens

:53:20.:53:23.

again. Thank you. My Jill Evans, a last word on this. The Speaker has

:53:24.:53:28.

to decide that this motion is put to the House. What do you think John

:53:29.:53:35.

Bercow will do? I don't know is the answer. John has been incredibly

:53:36.:53:38.

good at allowing Parliament as much say as events as possible. So I

:53:39.:53:43.

would not be surprised at all if this motion is actually put to

:53:44.:53:46.

Parliament and let them have their say. I've been an MP for 24 years, I

:53:47.:53:53.

don't believe in that period I've had a contempt motion coming before

:53:54.:53:56.

Parliament. I think it was the 1950s the last time somebody was dragged

:53:57.:53:59.

to the bar of the House to apologise but I've got used since June 23 to

:54:00.:54:04.

uncharted waters so we are where we are. Thank you. Let's go back to our

:54:05.:54:11.

main story, Andrea Leadsom's erratic announcement that she is withdrawing

:54:12.:54:14.

from the Conservative leadership race. -- dramatic announcement. In

:54:15.:54:20.

the last few mitts, Theresa May's campaign manager, Chris Grayling,

:54:21.:54:24.

has made this statement. Theresa is currently on her way back to London

:54:25.:54:27.

from Birmingham and she will be making a statement later today but

:54:28.:54:31.

on her behalf, I'd just like to say that she is enormously honoured to

:54:32.:54:35.

have been entrusted with this task by so many of her Parliamentary

:54:36.:54:39.

colleagues. As Andrea's statement made clear this morning, now is the

:54:40.:54:44.

time for us to unite as a party and to get on with the job of doing

:54:45.:54:49.

everything we can to secure a strong and prosperous and successful future

:54:50.:54:54.

of our country. I know, we all know, that Theresa will do everything she

:54:55.:54:58.

can to equip our country for the challenges that lie ahead. Chris

:54:59.:55:02.

Grayling, spokesman for Theresa May, and she is making her way back to

:55:03.:55:06.

London, as you would expect, bearing in mind the fast-moving events.

:55:07.:55:11.

Listening to that archive and the of the Mirror and Lucy Fisher of the

:55:12.:55:15.

Times, who are on College Green. At the beginning of the programme,

:55:16.:55:21.

Nigel Evans said he was gobsmacked by what had happened. How have you

:55:22.:55:25.

responded? Politics is changing at the world in speed. It has been

:55:26.:55:29.

since the Brexit vote. Nothing is certainly more but today we do have

:55:30.:55:33.

a new Prime Minister, it's Theresa May, and because Andrea Leadsom

:55:34.:55:37.

pulled out, in her statement avoiding the motherhood row which we

:55:38.:55:40.

believe she couldn't stand any more and she was in tears and a broken

:55:41.:55:45.

woman over it, and why she's gone, she ignored that, but it remains

:55:46.:55:51.

that 199 Conservative MPs have now picked the Conservative Prime

:55:52.:55:54.

Minister of Britain. We thought it would be 150,000 Tory members, but

:55:55.:55:59.

it is an even smaller group. The only thing we could say with

:56:00.:56:02.

certainty was it was going to be a woman but that was where it stopped.

:56:03.:56:06.

What was your reaction when you heard that Andrea Leadsom was

:56:07.:56:10.

stepping out? Again, very surprised. I don't think any of us necessarily

:56:11.:56:15.

saw this coming today. I think this is going to spark a big conversation

:56:16.:56:19.

now about whether there is going to need to be a general election. Of

:56:20.:56:22.

course in the UK we don't have a presidential system but many people

:56:23.:56:26.

might think, we voted for David Cameron as Prime Minister, it's not

:56:27.:56:29.

OK to have just a tiny handful of MPs select the chief of our country.

:56:30.:56:34.

Do you think there should be a general election, Kevin Maguire? I

:56:35.:56:38.

do. I don't think Gordon Brown's correlation worked very well for

:56:39.:56:44.

him, Labour Britain. It is really a quasi-presidential system now

:56:45.:56:46.

because of the importance of the Prime Minister and the profile of

:56:47.:56:50.

the Prime Minister. It means the government will be led, the country

:56:51.:56:54.

will be led, the nearly four years by somebody who wasn't elected at a

:56:55.:56:58.

general election. Under the fixed in Parliament act, there are only two

:56:59.:57:02.

ways to have a general election. One is a vote of no-confidence in the

:57:03.:57:05.

government or the other is two thirds of MPs voting for an early

:57:06.:57:09.

election. If Theresa May as Prime Minister, after she's had her kitten

:57:10.:57:12.

heels under the Cabinet table for a few months, decides she wants one,

:57:13.:57:15.

she could challenge Labour in its very sorry state to actually go for

:57:16.:57:23.

early general election. It would be very hard for an opposition party,

:57:24.:57:26.

who are supposed to want power, who are supposed to want to govern now,

:57:27.:57:28.

supposed to want an election, to resist that offer. What about the

:57:29.:57:32.

Brexit negotiations? One Andrea Leadsom read out her letter to

:57:33.:57:35.

Graham Brady, she said Theresa May now will have to step up and push

:57:36.:57:39.

ahead with the Brexit negotiations. Will they happen much more quickly,

:57:40.:57:43.

do you think? I don't know about speed but I think we've seen

:57:44.:57:48.

Brexiters coming out on social media, feeling quite annoyed at the

:57:49.:57:53.

speed at which Theresa May has been correlated. I think they were

:57:54.:57:55.

inspecting this nine week campaign, during which time the word hoping to

:57:56.:58:00.

extort from her much further promises and confirmations asked

:58:01.:58:03.

what she plans to do with Brexit so I think there will be concern among

:58:04.:58:07.

Brexit MPs and campaigners. That's going to be critical now, isn't it,

:58:08.:58:12.

Kevin Maguire, on exactly how those negotiations pan out, or there will

:58:13.:58:15.

be bitter disappointment from many Google? Absolutely and Lucy appoints

:58:16.:58:19.

as Chancellor, Foreign Secretary, who is going to be leading the

:58:20.:58:22.

negotiation team. The Brexit group art going to want to buy a strong

:58:23.:58:29.

part. I have a sense of grievance but is astonishing that now all the

:58:30.:58:32.

levers have left the race, it is going to be a remain a. It is almost

:58:33.:58:37.

a mirror image to what we got in the vote for the referendum. It is a

:58:38.:58:43.

topsy-turvy world. Briefly on the Labour contest, Lucy, do you think

:58:44.:58:46.

Jeremy Corbyn will be on that balance paper automatically?

:58:47.:58:50.

Personally, I can't see how this contest goes ahead without him being

:58:51.:58:54.

on it. Tomorrow we have the importance of National Executive

:58:55.:58:56.

Committee meeting which will decide the legality of whether he

:58:57.:59:01.

automatically gets on or need 51 MPs' signatures. I think there will

:59:02.:59:04.

be such a sense of injustice if he's not on the contest. Many people we

:59:05.:59:09.

think don't even support of thing, this is an cricket, Andy Goodge to

:59:10.:59:12.

groundswell of support even from people who don't support him. In the

:59:13.:59:16.

closing seconds of the programme, do you agree with that, Kevin, and if

:59:17.:59:20.

so would he win again? He would win again and he should be allowed to

:59:21.:59:23.

stand for basic democratic reasons but given politics is so crazy at

:59:24.:59:26.

the moment, Labour could well try and keep him off. At the party split

:59:27.:59:31.

at that point? I think it would splinter and fracture but quite how

:59:32.:59:34.

fundamental the split is we don't know. You could have two bits of the

:59:35.:59:38.

party that hate each other trying to live together. You'd better get back

:59:39.:59:42.

into Parliament. Something might have changed in the time you been

:59:43.:59:45.

speaking to be. I don't want to predict what is going to be on the

:59:46.:59:48.

programme tomorrow because there are many hours to go but that's it for

:59:49.:59:52.

today. Thank you to our guests, particularly you two for being our

:59:53.:59:55.

guests of the day. One of the news is starting on BBC One now. Al be

:59:56.:00:01.

back tomorrow. By. -- the one o'clock

:00:02.:00:02.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS