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The next Conservative leader will either be
Theresa May or Andrea Leadsom, and one of them will be in 10
Downing Street by early September at the latest.
As the contest moves from Westminster to the party's
members, will May's experience win out, or can Leave campaigner Leadsom
Speaking of coups, Labour's seems to be on hold at the moment.
But, with 100,000 new members joining since the Brexit vote,
the party's internal battle is far from over.
Remain voters still feeling a bit tearful can take comfort
from a new paper being launched this morning, just for them,
What will MEPs miss about their monthly jaunts
to the European Parliament in Strasbourg?
And with us for the first half of the programme today,
She only left me if you moments ago on BBC One!
I have been sleeping under the table!
She writes for the FT and this week she's been writing
about whether it's OK to embellish your CV.
So, when she tells you she used to be Lib Dem leader and she's
about to take over as presenter of Top Gear, you'll
First today, there's one big story across the front pages this
morning and that's the news that the next Conservative leader
and Prime Minister will be either Home Secretary Theresa May
or the Energy Minister Andrea Leadsom.
Much has been made of the fact that Britain is to have a female
PM for the first time since Margaret Thatcher left
Only the second in our long Parliamentary history.
And the comparisons with Maggie are flowing thick and fast, either
favourably or unfavourably depending on your political persuasion.
Let's have a listen to both women speaking after they were chosen
as the final two candidates in a ballot of Conservative MPs.
We need proven leadership to negotiate the best deal
for leaving the European Union, to unite our party and our country,
and to make Britain a country that works not for the privileged few
Obviously very exciting, and the great news is
we have an all-female short list with no positive
discrimination or anything, isn't that fantastic?
So, we have a female Scottish First Minister, a female leader of the
Scottish Tories, if female leader of Scottish Labour, a German female
Chancellor, about to have a second British Prime Minister, and may be
an American female president. In the 21st century, we are moving
to a situation where the fact that someone is female is moving down the
agenda? It is either that, or time to
celebrate a new dawn of a female age and female leadership being
recognised as having the same potential as male. When you look at
Scottish politics, it has been really significant all but one of
the party leaders in Scotland has been female for a while. Someone
like Ruth Davidson is an absolute star, as is Nicola Sturgeon.
It is cause to celebrate. The problem that can happen on the left
is that when you get women like Theresa May and Andrea Leadsom
rising to the very top, because they do not fit their idea of a
conventional feminist, they are dismissed as not quite right.
You can have a problem where the woman to hand is not quite woman
enough, which is hopeless. It should be celebrated. When Barack
Obama was about to win, some of the black activists said he is not
enough! You have to be careful. Why is it that the Conservatives
have produced a female short list but they are against female short
lists. And the Labour Party which is in favour and the Lib Dems, neither
have been anywhere near having a female leader.
It is true, a year ago, the Labour Party had really good women on the
list potentially for the leadership, deputy leadership and candidate for
London mayor. And then it turned out to be all-male when the vote came
in. The left has a problem. People get slightly twisted with the
identity politics, to do with categorising people all the time
when the right is relaxed about individualism.
Having said that, there aren't enough women in politics generally
and things must be changed structurally to allow women in, this
is still important. In 1975, it was a huge issue that
Margaret Thatcher would become leader of the Conservative Party. It
is not a huge issue now that either to May or Andrea Leadsom will be
leader, that is a change in attitude.
So, now we know the final two in the race to be the next leader
of the Conservative Party and, consequently, the next
She brings her experience as one of the longest home secretaries to the
job. While she insists Brexit is Brexit, she was on the remain
campsite in the referendum which could count against her. Andrea
Leadsom is the new face. As Energy Minister, she has not sat in the
Cabinet, and has been an MP since only 2010. A prominent role in the
Leave campaign puts on the same side as many conservative members. Her
supporters claim she is a fresh face. Andrea Leadsom was also
Grammar School educated. She has a degree in political science from
Warwick University. She had a career in finance, experience which makes
up for her lack of time in Government, according to her
supporters. Yesterday, she was forced to defend just how good those
credentials. Now it is down to local party members. Ben Gatsby is chair
of the Thurrock Conservative Association. And Michael are still
joins us from Plymouth as chair of the South West Devon Conservative
Association. Why is Theresa May your candidate?
It comes down to experience. As a country, this will be an interesting
couple of years. It is no time for a novice. Theresa May has been Home
Secretary, received briefings which would keep me up at night, she knows
what she is doing. Andrea is not tested.
Michael, no time for a novice? First of all, I am very delighted we
have two ladies in the contest. I have been reading about her and
she is passionate about the job. She has some experience and what she
sees in her role could be very good said getting part of the EU. I don't
think we should -- I think we should wait for the months ahead and let
the membership decide in good time. Andrea Leadsom.
She is new, even to her supporters, clearly. Is it important the next
Prime Minister was a Leave campaigner?
Yes, it is for me. Because I was vote lead, I work very hard as did
others. And the result was the clear result that we should now get ahead
and put that into motion. What do you say to that?
Because it looks like most Conservative Party members voted to
leave. And, for them, Mrs Mabel is on the wrong side of the argument,
why pick someone like that as your next leader?
As Michael said, the result is the result. Teresa has been cleared
Brexit means Brexit. There wasn't any reason to be worried about that.
There is a country still to be governed.
We still have schools, hospitals, transport, all the other things that
take up an entire cabinet minister's time.
Will people who voted to leave not fear she is half-hearted and may not
try to drive a hard enough bargain and may settle for a Norwegian or a
Swiss halfway house? One of the problems with the Leave
campaign is no one set out what Brexit should look like.
Teresa will have to think hard. She will need to set out what she
thinks that should look like in the coming months.
When she says Brexit means Brexit, that is clear.
But there are very many varieties of Brexit.
Michael, there is a country to govern. And we don't know much about
Andrea Leadsom's position on the non-EU issues. Don't we need to find
out and maybe doesn't she need to seek a mandate from the country if
she wins? No, I wouldn't think we need a
general election. We had a general election, this Conservatives had a
good majority. I think we need to go ahead and Andrea will put her ideas
forward in the ensuing months. And I think she hasn't got the experience
of her counterpart but I think she will come out and give clear
information on how she is going to deal with as leaving the EU and
getting a good deal. What are her chances? She is coming
from behind, not the favourite, what are her chances. I think she has a
very good chance of winning. And the support of me and many of my
friends, some not actually in the Conservative Party.
But they won't have the vote. No, but it is nice to hear that
other people, some Ukip friends that I have who are in touch with me to
say that they, that she would be their choice.
Thanks you very much for joining us. James cleverly, what
reassurances does Theresa May have to give that she will not be looking
for a Brexit - light solution. I think she has given all the
reassurances that I need. I campaign very hard for Brexit, so did Chris
Grayling, Priti Patel and Liam Fox. All of us take her experience as her
bond. When she says she will campaign for a proper Brexit that
works for Britain, that is what she will deliver.
Not a Norwegian halfway house? She has not mention that, no one in her
team has mentioned that. There will be a British model.
Because, before the Norwegians negotiated their position, there was
no model on the shelf to be deployed.
We will make a Brexit that works for Britain, I am confident Theresa May
will deliver that. Given her failed record on
immigration, she cannot be seen to give anything on the free movement.
One of the reasons I campaigned so hard for Brexit is I was very
conscious Theresa May and James Brokenshire I were doing sterling
work but were limited in their ability to deliver because of the
constraints put on us by our membership of the EU.
They set a target of 100,000 net migration. Even if no one had come
from the EU, they wouldn't have hit that target, net moderation from
non-EU was 180 8000. The bits of immigration they did control they
could not even get that down to the target.
The thing I identified with regard to our membership of the EU, it
doesn't matter how fair your immigration policy is, you can't
deploy a policy whilst being members of the EU.
Why? We have total control for outside the EU. If Theresa May could
not control that, why, when we have no EU controls on that, why would we
trust has good control immigration when we are outside the EU?
I completely trust her to control immigration. There still hospitals
to be run, transport to be run, policing to be run. It is important
we discuss Brexit but it is also important we recognise we need a
leader who can deal with all the other elements of government that
still need to be delivered. What is her policy on Heathrow and Gatwick
runway is? I don't have the inside track of all the policies. We don't
know? Andrea and to Reza will be touring the country setting out
their agenda for government. -- Theresa May. I won't try and... You
said there is a country to govern. We don't know. It may also be true
of Andrea Leadsom, we don't know what Theresa May stands for outside
the six years she has been in the Home Office? When she came to the
1922... She made an explicit statement on HS2. I don't want to be
drawn on all her policy announcements because she will want
to announce those as part of her campaign to become the next Prime
Minister in the next few months. Has it not been to her detriment that
she is prepared to make EU nationals already living in this country a
bargaining chip? When I was in business I did a lot of negotiating.
One of the first rules of negotiating, you don't give away
negotiating points. I know that, how would you, why would you make people
living in this country EU nationals, who's been here, law-abiding
citizens, working away, why would you make them bargaining chips? She
was asked a question and she answered it. We don't have any
assurances from the EU that UK nationals... Why will that matter?
In a negotiation you need to keep as many options open as possible. Every
EU national watching this programme today should be uncertain about
their future, because you want to make them part of the negotiation
process? No, you brought it up, I didn't bring it up. Excuse me,
Theresa May brought up. She didn't, she was asked a direct question and
she said as a general point of principle she wasn't going to start
renegotiating with the media before she even steps into the room with
the European Parliament. She said the position of the EU nationals
would be part of the negotiations. The point I made in a previous
programme, even the most radical of leaders said EU nationals should not
worry, that their position will be protected when we leave the EU. Why
can Theresa May not say that? Because she has said as a general
principle she is not going to stop renegotiating with the media before
she is even in the job. You could go through one issue after another... I
am sticking with this issue. Many people think the position of EU
nationals should be placed above the negotiations, should not be part of
the negotiations. If you want to stay here, you are entitled to do
so. Even Nigel Farage says that is the case. No one that I campaigned
with on the Leave campaign or spoke to on the Remain campaign wants to
see EU nationals excluded from the UK. But Theresa made a clear point
of principle, she's not going to pre-negotiate point by point in the
lead up to hopefully her becoming the next Prime Minister. You could
pick one issue after another and keep asking her and you will get the
same answer, that she is not going to take anything off the table. The
3 million EU nationals this is an important issue and you are putting
their future on the table. These are your words.
Would you bet on the outside on this does Theresa May have it? The
Conservative Party's great genius has always been to see itself as the
natural party of government and guard that against ideological
forays. I think the problem for the party is if you listen to the
gentleman from the south-west, with saying it was an encouraging sign
Andrea Leadsom appealed to his Ukip friends, I wouldn't see that as an
encouraging sign, I would be worried about a reverse takeover of the
Conservative Party by Ukip and disenfranchising those centre-right
people for who were fans of David Cameron and won him the general
election. I think it is a dangerous maim and for the Tories, because if
they do Jeremy Corbyn on the Tories, they will be captured by their
extreme wings. Is that your biggest risk? The Conservative Party is not
the Labour Party. We have a very pragmatic set of associate members.
I hear what you are saying but Andrea Leadsom is not Jeremy Corbyn.
Our members are not Momentum. We are as sensible, pragmatic and middle
ground party and that is where we will remain. We will leave it there,
thank you. Conservative Party members will choose a new leader but
will Labour Party members get to do the same before long?
Well, there's still a stalemate between leader Jeremy Corbyn
and his many critics among MPs, and we don't know yet
whether there will be a leadership challenge.
But, if there is, then it appears that many people are joining
the party in an effort to influence the result.
Let's just take a look at the figures.
The party's highest membership figure in recent decades was 405,000
in 1997 when Tony Blair became Prime Minister.
Since then, it's been falling, and under Ed Miliband in 2014
But the membership practically doubled to more than 370,000
after last summer's leadership election, in part because of a rule
change meant people could sign up for ?3.
This morning, Jeremy Corbyn writes in the Guardian that,
since the EU referendum, more than 100,000 have joined,
taking the total number to just over 500,000.
Well, let's talk now to Tom Baldwin, who was an adviser to Ed Miliband
and Adam Klug who is a national organiser for Momentum.
Which has been part of Jeremy Corbyn's John McDonnell appeal to
the grassroots. Is there going to be a challenge? I think there will be,
at the beginning of next week. Their will. Is it assumed on that
challenge you would assume among Labour MPs that Jeremy Corbyn loses
that challenge? That he won't get a majority, and it will go to the
country? I think it would be much better if Jeremy Corbyn did the
decent thing and left now with some dignity intact. If it comes to a
challenge, they will have to do this. In those circumstances, what
matters now is the mainstream start signing people up with the same
skill and success as Momentum have been doing. A bit late? I don't
think so, the figures Jeremy Corbyn was talking about, 100,000 new
members, it has been 113,000. There has been some sampling done. It is a
narrow majority for Jeremy Corbyn, not overwhelming and not as big as
momentum believes or would like. Do you buy that? All the early
indications were those who are signing up to joint were not 100%
Jeremy Corbyn fans but tended to the left of the Labour Party? That is my
understanding. From the first 13,000 people who joined, 60% put on their
membership forms as they joined that they were joining to support Jeremy
Corbyn. That was only those who wrote in that box but you didn't
have to write in that box. Those who did tended towards Jeremy Corbyn?
60% wrote in that box. That is because Momentum have been
mobilising. The mainstream currently have been fighting this is a
parliamentary battle. I think it is imperative that mainstream Labour
Party now go out and show the mainstream are many and the far left
off you. That is getting people to sign up hundreds of mainstream
people who want a firm opposition. What is your equipment question what
saving Labour. There are many millions of people who after this
referendum want an effective opposition, want to do something to
save our country and save our democracy. I think that energy, that
opportunity now needs to be harnessed, not just to save the
Labour Party but to save our democracy. Do you think it will be
harder this time? Or do you think you still have a substantial
majority for Mr Corbyn among the rank and file? I agree that this is
a huge opportunity, with 500,000 members the Labour Party is now the
biggest membership left of centre party in Europe. I think it is a
tremendous opportunity to move forward and engage with voters and
engage with members. Members of the people who, on a daily basis, are
interacting with voters. It is an opportunity to be knocking on
people's doors, canvassing and listening to people. What I said
was, do you think among the membership it will be harder or
easier to re-elect Mr Corbyn? If there is a challenge I am confident
Jeremy will be re-elected. And if he is, where does that leave the
Parliamentary Labour Party? In a very difficult position. And our
party and our democracy. Jeremy Corbyn cannot be leader of the
Labour Party. For out of five have expressed no confidence in him.
Every MEP, ex-leader, an increasing number of members. This is
unsustainable. Not if he wins? If he wins among the grassroots he has
won. Isn't it the truth that this situation... That the grassroots of
the Labour Party needs a new parliamentary party, and the
Parliamentary party needs a new grassroots? Maybe you will end up
going your separate ways? I think there is too much defeatism among
Labour MPs who think you can't beat momentum on the ground. I believe
there is energy out there. I believe there is an opportunity and if a
large number of people who have joined the Labour Party specifically
to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn in the last few weeks, that is even before
the mainstream is mobilised. We have to get on with mobilising. The
contrast with the Conservative Party, 150,000 very weird people
about to choose the new Prime Minister, we need to oppose that and
effectively. Do you think the Tory party have a monopoly on with
members? No. Let's park that there. Do you detect this claim of a
moderate uprising among Labour Party members? I don't. I think the whole
terms of this discussion are disappointing. The Tories could call
a general election at any time. A turbulent political period and all
these members of the Labour Party, 130 momentum groups around the UK
who are doing positive community engaging and this is presented as a
war, a battle as how to beat or defeat Momentum. I think to be that
that is how Momentum presented. I think it is great people are joining
the Labour Party and it outnumbers this ageing and odd Conservative
Party. What is also important is the Labour Party becomes more
representative of the country, getting mainstream Labour voters
into the party, as well as people from Momentum. If Mr Corbyn is
re-elected, if we go down this process, nobody has triggered it
yet, but if he is and is re-elected and remains leader and leader of the
Parliamentary party, 80% of which have no confidence in him... You
need a new Parliamentary Labour Party? It is a very unfortunate
situation we find ourselves in. I put the of that down to MPs who
decided to take this action. I wonder where you go from there?
There are many great MPs and MPs who will be having conversations with
their members and could be won background. We need to build a
bridge somehow, because it is a really difficult situation we find
ourselves in. To have contempt for members and their views on to ignore
them and think they should only be looking at the Parliamentary Labour
Party is undemocratic move, I would say. What he is a customer when I
first worked in politics a long time ago there was this sort of dream of
cooperation on the centre-left another centre-left is now a kind of
sinkhole, effectively. There is nobody there and nobody there to
represent mainstream centre-left views. I understand what you're
saying that even if you have 500,000 people in a group hug, it's still a
group hug and not appealing to as a whole. The Labour Party was setup to
improve the lives of working people. I'm afraid sort of being preoccupied
with the with the issues left are preoccupied with does not
communicate with the electorate as a whole. I think you are right, and
through. I think the current system of parties we have inherited is
becoming the unsustainable. The Labour Party contains two different
parties now. The question is, will it be recaptured by the moderate
mainstream and will the left have to go some rows and create their own
Momentum party? Or will the moderates in the Labour Party have
to hide themselves off and create a new centre-left body? Questions we
must leave hanging in the air. Who would you like the challenger to be?
Angela Eagle at the moment because she has had the balls to put herself
up there. Not necessarily the ideal candidate and not my perfect choice
but she has been brave enough to say she will take on Jeremy Corbyn and I
think we should back her. No question Mr Corbyn would just stand
down in your view question what I don't believe that would happen. I
think that would be very disappointing if that were to
happen. You have both had your say and we will leave it there. It will
keep us busy which is what we need, during the summer. Not!
A new weekly newspaper hits the newsagents today.
Or should I say, it hits some newsagents in some
Specifically in those areas that voted to stay in the EU
in the referendum such as London, Liverpool and Manchester.
The New European is aimed at the 48% who voted unsuccessfully to stay
in the European Union, in what its publishers said
was an effort to cater for people feeling a real sense of loss.
Well, we here at the Daily Politics always wish all new papers well.
But let's have a look at some other titles that have fared
Sales of the new newspaper got off to a good start.
This shop sold out in less than quarter of an hour.
The paper is good to look at, with plenty of colour pictures.
The first edition of The European, coming off the presses
at the Mirror Group's printing works at Watford.
Hello Sir, Sunday Business is launched this Sunday,
it's a new newspaper and you can also win a free bottle of champagne.
I've got my star writer in New York, and he should be here with a copy.
An hour and a half to go and the newspapers are late.
Editor in chief Andrew Neil makes a rare appearance
Let's move on this, we're running out time now.
The Lite version has been printed here for the last five years,
but managers say it is no longer financially viable.
After 168 years, the News of the World is to close.
This Sunday's edition will be its last.
It was the first broadsheet to go tabloid and now it's the first
Hold the front page, it's a new national newspaper
in the age of the Internet, published by the Mirror Group,
but its own agenda, journalists on a new approach.
Joining us now, and probably wishing he hadn't seen that film,
is the editor of pop-up newspaper The New European, Matt Kelly.
Here is The New European newspaper, a pop art hurt her for the 48%.
-- Pop up paper. A new paper for a new constituency,
very rare you are handed in market opportunity of 16.5 million people
on a plate. It is, if you look at those models
you have just shown, they had multi-million pound budgets, ours is
in the low five figures. We are doing a conservative cost
base, with massive positivity from journalists. We have captured some
sense in the country there is a lack of representation the people feeling
disenfranchised by what happened. It is weekly? You are committed to
four editions. Is there a digital version?
A digital page turner. We have a social media presence. And a website
for people who want to subscribe. What will you tell me that I can't
get from the Financial Times or the Economist? They have a sense of
bereavement at the moment. Both those don't touch a mass
market. We are aiming for a popular style.
What sales will you be happy with? We are printing 200,000 copies
today. On sale all week. If we sold 50,000 I would be delighted.
?2, Miranda, are you up for that? This will test the ram named
campaign commitment. -- Remain.
There is a sense of cultural abandonment of what this might mean
particularly in London and the big cities, maybe there is a market.
I am in favour of any newspaper! The best of luck.
Coming up in a moment, it's our regular look at what's been
For now, it's time to say goodbye to my guest of the day.
So, for the next half-an-hour, we're going to be focussing on Europe.
We'll be discussing the status of EU nationals here after Brexit,
and what the rest of the EU will do without Britain.
First, though, here's our guide to the latest from Europe,
The Dutch presidency of the EU came to an end.
The EU must regain its confidence and fight growing populism
and nationalism across the continent, said
The European Commission performed a U-turn on is trade
-- The European Commission performed a U-turn on its trade
agreement with Canada, giving into pressure from France
and Germany by agreeing national parliaments should ratify the deal.
As figures show another rise in the number of migrants
crossing into Europe, MEPs approved plans to set up an EU
Border and Coast Guard Force to help member states under pressure.
MEPs had some sharp exchanges in the debate about the result
EU President Jean-Claude Junker mocked Brexiteers Boris Johnson
TRANSLATION: Patriots don't resign when they get difficult, they stay.
As for the outgoing Ukip leader, he says he will stay on as an MEP
And with us for the next 30 minutes, I've been joined by two MEPs.
Yes, they're still in the job for now, at least.
It's the Conservative Amjad Bashir, and Labour's Richard Corbett.
Let's take a look at one of those stories in more detail and that's
the news that member states will now get to have a say over the EU's
It could have big implications for other trade deals on the way
including, of course, any new deal with the UK.
If this has to go before all of the parliament, the hurdles are higher.
This is part of a trend, not a one off decision. Trade deals if they
are purely trade up to the European Parliament. Increasingly, trade goes
into more things agree on common regulations which are a national
competence so you need every member country to ratify. With 28 member
states it could be a tall order. This could freeze trade deals by the
EU. The Canadian deal will have some trouble. And the bigger North
Atlantic trade deal with America, that won't get through national
partners at all. This demonstrates how difficult it
is to do trade deals with the EU. I am glad we are out of it.
Not yet. Indeed, but we will conduct our own trade deals a lot quicker.
If the EU can't do trade deals with Canada, who can it with?
What about our own trade deal with the EU. If we are left outside the
single European market, our main export market with tariff barriers,
passport sporting for our financial services sector will be gone unless
we get a deal. It will be more difficult to obtain than leaving the
EU and negotiating afterwards from outside will be even more difficult.
Canada had to start from scratch. Our product as locations are already
there. But on the implications of what will
happen with Canada, is it now possible that when we eventually
come to agree the terms of Brexit, will that have to be agreed by 27
national parliaments? The British people have spoken
loudly, 17,000 Berger 17 million. The answer to my question?
We have to start negotiating to deliver what people want.
Who will gratify it? The new Prime Minister when she comes into being
will invoke article 50. I know all that but what is it?
Doesn't the Lisbon Treaty specified the ratification process? Could it
be up to the national parliaments? If the new promise that gets trade
incorporated in the divorce settlement, that needs a qualified
majority in the council. If trade is left as a separate item, then the
likelihood is it could be classified as a mixed deal which means every
national parliament would need to ratify it. One of the great
uncertainties. A new ball game.
Sticking with this, one question is this.
So, one question arising from the debate between the candidates
to become our next Prime Minister is what happens to EU
nationals living in the UK after we formally leave the union?
Frontrunner Theresa May has said she can only guarantee their status
as long as British nationals living in EU countries have their
So, just how many people are we talking about?
Well, according to the Office For National Statistics,
there are 2.9 million people from the EU resident here,
That includes people who've lived here for at least 12 months.
It doesn't include those on shorter stays.
Polish nationals represent by far the largest group of EU nationals,
with 853,000 living in the UK, followed by Ireland and Romania.
According to information collected by the United Nations,
there are just under 1.2 million UK citizens living in the rest
Of the 27 EU countries, Spain had the most with just under
310,000 migrants from the UK living there in 2015.
Ireland was second, and France third.
Are you surprised that Theresa May has made the status of EU nationals
and issue for the negotiations? I was on the Leave side. When I was
asked questions during the run up to the referendum, I said that in
future we need to control immigration. Those people already
here should be allowed to stay. I haven't changed my position.
But it is not what Mrs May is saying.
But we have to take into account the 1.2 million of our citizens living
on the continent. It would be a dereliction of our duty if we
ignored that. I understand. You are facing both
ways at once. Either the 2.9 EU nationals in this country are going
to be guaranteed their status, continued status for the foreseeable
future. Or they are a bargaining chip in negotiations, what is it?
You have to take the whole thing together. Our citizens need the
right to remain. Usually elderly people who have retired there are a
vulnerable stage of their life. They need assurance they can remain that
as well. It is right... It sounds like the EU
nationals here are a bargaining chip.
It would appear so from what has been said.
It is even more contemplative than that. Not just about residency
rights. EU law guarantees rights not to be discriminated against on
grounds of nationality. A Brit living in Spain for instance, dying,
what happens to the inheritance of their property? Some countries
prescribe that. If we leave, we need to think of all these details.
But do you believe that we should guarantee the existing status of EU
nationals living in this country? Yes, people working here with
families, part of the fabric of our society. To imply this is a
bargaining chip which is not even necessary because if we do that I
don't see any other EU country trying to retaliate.
What about their rights? Is it right...
Let him speak. Is it right when we are talking about EU citizens being
allowed to stay here, which I agree they should, isn't it right we take
into account our citizens, are we abandoning them?
They have rights. You are implying other countries would challenge
those bytes. If we are doing the right thing by EU citizens already
here, they will do the right thing for British citizens already there.
By putting it into negotiations you are saying, why don't you do the
same and use them as a bargaining chip.
What is the likelihood, 1.2 million spread over 27 countries,
concentrated in Spain and France and Ireland, Ireland is not an issue
because that won't happen, Irish people will continue to live here
and British people will continue in Ireland. You can take that off the
table. Would it not be a good position for
Britain to take a high moral position, regardless of what you
will do with our 1.2 million, the 3 million who are here in Britain,
they are safe. It is not a question of numbers. It is our duty to look
after them. There are 300,000 in Spain. They have largely gone to
retire there. It is right we negotiate so they can remain. It is
Brussels preventing us negotiating. They say you can't negotiate unless
you invoke article 50. This is a bargaining chip. If you
make this a bargaining chip, indeed they are in danger. If you don't,
they are not in danger. It sounds like you have moved from
guaranteeing they can stay to now agreeing they should be a bargaining
chip after the campaign? I'm saying... We've not lied. The
situation is, it's right that we guarantee the rights of our citizens
who live on the continent. That's what we are trying to ensure. To do
that you have to make the 3 million EU people living here a bargaining
chip? That's clear? Rights for both. Our people on the continent, and
people from the continent living here. That is not what Nigel Farage
said during the campaign or leading Leave campaigners on the
conservative side. Iain Duncan Smith, Chris Grayling... Andrea
Leadsom, none of them said they would be a bargaining chip. The
Leave campaign... I don't want at all, Bihar. -- on their behalf.
Now, as you might expect, the result of Britain's referendum
has raised some serious questions over the future of the EU
Has Brexit damaged the European project, perhaps fatally?
Or will it be the trigger the EU needs to bring
Adam's been in Strasbourg to find out.
Big moments in EU history, commemorated at the European
This session, they have gone for a referendum them,
Big Ben, a Brexit stamp and a picture of David Cameron
This week, a lot of the talk in this place has been
about what will Europe look like post-Brexit?
Guys, I'm from the BBC, what direction do you want Europe
The Dutch Prime Minister said the way forward is not big reforms,
just a more effective EU, which is how the right of centre
We are strongly against any kind of treaty change, we
need concrete answers on the problems of the people.
Stop the illegal migration flow which we saw in the last month.
Find possibilities to create jobs for our young people especially
If we deliver on such things, then people are happy with Europe.
The Socialist group isn't just handing out goodie bags,
they've also revived a plan by the European Parliament Presidnet
Martin Schultz and his fellow German left-wingers.
I heard from the quotes of those who voted for Brexit, yes,
I can elect a Government and I can chase a Government out of power.
So why not do the same in Brussels, to elect a Government which would be
the Commission, and as well have the power to have a motion
In the chamber, we saw even more extreme views.
Uber federalists and those who really are not.
And, in my opinion, a new project, a new vision should be presented
Because the truth is European citizens are not against Europe,
TRANSLATION: People want their sovereignty back,
they want to cooperate freely in a Europe of sovereign states.
And there is talk of whether the Commission President
Jean-Claude Juncker should be in the driving seat.
If Mr Cameron resigns, I think Juncker should resign also.
Because his impudance was one of the reasons the UK leads.
Enter the Slovak Prime Minister, who will chair a summit
in Bratislava in September where all of this will come to a head.
I have heard so many different plans for the future of the EU
Mr Schultz's plan, Mr Verhofstadt seems to have three,
Your summit in Bratislava, how will you choose
TRANSLATION: More than 60% of our citizens support the EU
but we would lose that confidence if we are too cool.
So we have to listen to our citizens and bear their expectations in mind.
It is clear that our whole house is not in order and we
To cheer everyone up, a Northern Irish MEP invited
this band from Belfast to Strasbourg this week.
There are enormous questions about who will call the tune
as the EU charts its future without the UK.
He was one of the fiddlers! We naturally concentrated on the
divisions Brexit has raised in this country, what our position would be.
But it has created divisions in Europe as well. An two levels,
Europe, the EU is divided on what its negotiation position should be
towards us, and also divided on where Europe should go here, between
those for further integration and those for greater nation state
Corporation. Both mirror each other. The French, the Italians, the
commission on the punishment beating more integration side, the Eastern
European is on the Council on their less integration. Let's see if we
can do a deal with Britain's lied. Do you buy that? To a degree, but
remember the bottom line on the integration on less integration. The
basic rule book of the European Union is a set of treaties which can
only be changed to give more powers to the EU if every single country
agrees. It can only move that the speed of the least enthusiastic
country. On how to deal with Britain, I detect a shift of mood.
The initial reaction was, you decided to go, let's get on with it
and sort out quickly. Now there is a realisation that it can only be
triggered by Britain giving in its notification under Article 50 and
that Britain needs a bit of time to work out what it wants, what
alternative is it negotiating for? We have no clarity on that. The
Leave side gave two very different visions of flats, one inside the
single market, but then you have to accept the rules of that market. One
outside, but then you have to accept a tariff barrier. Both are
unpalatable but we need to choose one or the other. There will be
Leave voters who say, that's not what I voted for, that's not what I
was told I might reopen the question is not why do you accept there will
be private debate about the future of Europe? No appetite for further
treaty change this side of the French or German elections? The
Eastern European is to use Brexit as a way of building up the position of
the nation state they even want to get rid of Jean-Claude Juncker.
Angela Merkel made it clear they will not be doing negotiations with
Britain, that will be a job for the Council and for her. So there are
changes afoot. Yes, but I don't buy the line the member states never
controlled the European Union. Every fundamental decision needs every
national government to agree with it. Even when you need a qualified
majority, that is a pretty hefty majority. The idea things can be
decided in Brussels with member states being blissfully unaware...
That wasn't my point. The division between Paris and Berlin in
particular, how to handle this. The irony is that Europe could now start
moving in more of a direction you wanted it to move in the first
place, and we won't be there. I think Europe is in a pickle. The
people of Europe are in a pickle. A British expression! The people of
Europe want something similar to us, to bring democracy close to the
nation and make decisions for themselves. Jean-Claude Juncker and
the like would want a federal state with more and more power
concentrated in the centre, and that's why Europe is about to
implode. OK, we shall see if it implodes or not.
Our guests of the day, like all of Britain's 73 MEPs,
are now officially something of an endangered species.
But they have the right to keep their seats
in the European Parliament until the process of leaving
So, when they do finally sign off from their duties in
Brussels and Strasbourg, what will they miss?
The grand old cathedral proves the first point,
which is that Strasbourg is very easy on the eye.
There's also an impressive son et lumiere show there every
night during the summer, although when I went last night,
The city is awash with patisseries, cosy bars and Michelin star
restaurants like this one, where you can get the veal
with gnocchi and mushrooms for just 49 euros.
Although, MEPs actually don't spend a lot of time in the centre
of town - they're over in the European quarter.
Here, which is sort of like a theme park for Euro geeks.
Over there is the European Court of Human Rights, peer through those
trees and you'll see the Council of Europe,
and over there - the official seat of the European Parliament.
In here you will find the political stage on an epic scale.
This is Parliament's debating chamber, known as the Hemicycle,
and it's around 12 and half times bigger than the House of Commons
chamber in Westminster, and while you're speaking,
your beautifully honed words will be translated into 23 different
It's quite a convivial place, dotted with bars and restaurants,
like this one, and it's very, very international, which is great
if you want to discuss olive farming in Greece from a feminist
perspective, or the fiendishly complicated voting system here,
One thing that no MEP will miss is the travel.
I've now got to get the train to Paris, walk across the city
to get another train, and then it's even harder
if you're going to Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.
big question is what happens to Adam after we leave the EU, never mind
the MEPs! Remind me, what is the role of the European Parliament in
the Article 50 process of exit? It would have to approve or ratify any
agreements reached between Britain and the... Wilbur plan B British
MEPs will stay at least until that vote? Yes, legally they are still
members as long as Britain is a member of the European for union. I
assume you would want to stay until that vote? You will want to make
sure there is a majority to ratify whatever the British government has
agreed? I would leave tomorrow if it was possible, but the thing is, you
are absolutely right. These negotiations are to take place and
we have to ratify them. So I remain until that is done. Are they already
treating you as second-class citizens? No, that is not the case.
There was apprehension after we went back after the Brexit vote, but I
think they have come round to it now. Are they? Or will you slowly be
sidelined question mark some understandably say if you are on
your way out, it is not so much your concern what we vote on. But as long
as we make contributions, continue to make contributions, we need to be
on the committees, we need to check things and make decisions. Is a
former MEP employable? Well, if we are outside the European Union, we
will still want to influence it. Maybe we could get a job in
Brussels. In Brussels. You want to be back in Yorkshire? Absolutely.
You have plenty of time to get your CVs ready for a new job, have you
taken tips from Andreas Beck? Certainly not. Maybe she would have
some good tips. I would carry on working in Yorkshire for the party
and try to get membership from the blue-collar workers of Yorkshire and
the communities. All right. At least two years to go, at least? It
depends how long Britain takes to secure what it once and then trigger
Article 50. And that is what we will be covering. That is it for now,
thank you to my guests, hope to see you again soon, goodbye from
Politics Europe. A CHOIR HUMS: Adagio For Strings
by Samuel Barber