14/07/2016 Daily Politics

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

It's Theresa May's first day at Number Ten

and she's been making some sweeping changes to her government,

saying farewell to many of the big names from the Cameron era

and welcoming some surprising figures to her team.

Mrs May promised to lead a country that works for the many,

but it's likely that it will be Britain's exit from the EU

The biggest surprise of the reshuffle has been

the decision to make Boris Johnson Foreign Secretary,

as it's out with the old and in with some of the leading

As Theresa May stamps her authority on the Conservatives the internal

crisis in Jeremy Corbyn's Labour seems to be getting nastier.

We'll look at whether Mr Corbyn or his critics have the advantage.

And the political cartoonists are sharpening their pencils

we'll talk about their impression of the new PM.

and with us for the whole of the programme today

is the former Conservative minister Francis Maude.

he's now a member of the House of Lords.

He's seen plenty of reshuffles in his time,

but we're glad he hasn't been recalled

to government or he wouldn't be able to join us in the studio today.

As we came on air, the bank of England announced its decision on

interest rates. It was widely predicted that they would cut

interest rates but they have voted 8-1 on the monetary policy committee

to keep interest rates on hold and to keep the rate of quantities

quantitative easing the same. This is significant because 80% of

economists predicted that he would cut the rates. A lot of them were

economists who had a lot to Sage in the referendum campaign. We got an

inkling that they may be wrong by the currency markets this morning.

Both against the euro and the dollar sterling started to strengthen and

it would seem unusual to strengthen if they were anticipating a cut in

interest rates. The governor has held onto his firepower for the

moment. Maybe in all August or September when he has a better idea

of the lay of the land. There were dire predictions of cataclysm and

the danger was lending credence to that by the actions that they take.

This was a perfectly sensible decision to hold rates as they are

and say actually there aren't any indications of cataclysm that we

need to spend with a cut in interest rates. I think it is a sensible

move. When it comes to monetary policy, he hasn't got that much room

to manoeuvre given that rates are so low. They have been the same for

seven years now. He has 175 billion of QE out there already. Everything

he does is subject to the law of diminishing returns. I'm sure that's

right. You could go lower and it was predicted and there are negative

interest rates in places but that is a counsel of despair. The bank of

Japan, the Riggs bank of Sweden, they have all come to two negative

rates. The governor has made clear he is not a fan of negative rates.

We have a stronger economy. We are not on the floor. The economy is

pretty strong. The legacy of the Cameron government has been to take

is from a very bad place to having a strong economy with good strong

employment rates. I think what this reflects is a recognition that the

world, the roof hasn't fallen in and you don't need to take desperate

measures to shore things up. All right. It's likely that the economy

will be slowing down in this quarter so the government will probably

revisit this decision in August or September. Now, for the seven years

back to 2009 interests rate stay the same.

Let's turn back to the big story of the day, and that's Theresa May's

After returning from the palace and arriving in Downing Street,

Mrs May used her speech outside Number ten to promise

to tackle injustice, and she said she was determined

Following the referendum we face a time of great national change.

And I know, because we are Great Britain,

As we leave the European Union we will forge a bold, new positive role

We will make Britain a country that works,

not for a privileged few, but for of us.

That will be the mission the government I lead.

And, together, we will build a better Britain.

The reaction to that speech from various quarters was that she had

parked her tanks on Labour's lawn. What was there in that speech for

true blue Tories? I think the Conservative Party at its best does

occupy the centre ground. We have to be a party, if we are going to

succeed electorally, to appeal to all parts of the country,

geographically, socially, of racial background. She is continuing in the

direction that David Cameron set. The direction he took which made the

Conservative Party electable again after a long period in opposition

where we lost three general elections in a row. That is really

important. There wasn't so much in her speech is on the economic front.

No one has ever suggested that a vote to leave the European Union

will not have some short-term shock and downside effect on the, me. What

people will want to hear in the days and weeks ahead is some sense of how

we are going to use the opportunity that comes from being not in the

European Union to build a different kind of economy that is even more

buoyant and strong... Do you think that Philip Hammond who is one of

those who warned of economic gloom and doom if the UK voted to leave

the EU is the right person combine with Theresa May, who you could

argue is not an economic expert, to then steer Britain through this

short-term shock, as you put it? I never thought Philip's heart was

terribly in the remaining campaign. He said in 2011 that he said he

would vote against membership. His task is to set out creatively,

imaginatively, what the opportunities are and what

government policy will help that. The key things that people will want

to hear is that there is a very strong commitment by the government

London are being an incredibly competitive international financial

centre. That is about a regulatory regime, a tax regime that makes

people want to do business from London. That's the economic side of

it. Let's look at style. She's quite bold. It's a genetic reshuffle. A

lot of ministerial corpses abound. Yes and it looks a bit personal, to

be honest. I company elite understand the desire of a new Prime

Minister to sweep away some of the characters that formed the essence

of the Cameron government. I think she shouldn't forget that those were

people who also got the Conservative Party into a place where it could

get back into government and I particularly regret the loss of

Michael Gove. He is a powerful reformer, a powerful intellect,

brave and clever and principled and a really effective reformer. I think

to lose him was a mistake. Sterling holding steady against the euro. 1.1

nine. Against the dollar it is 1.32 in the wake of no cut in the

interest rate. It looks like the currency markets had anticipated it.

So Theresa May defied some commentators who thought

this could be something of continuity reshuffle.

Instead we've seen the sacking of some big figures

from David Cameron's government, including George Osborne,

Jeremy Hunt has been removed from health but we don't know his new

appointment. And Mrs May also made some genuinely

surprising new appointments, including several high-profile

Brexit-backers and, in the biggest Yesterday we heard

Philip Hammond has taken the keys and Boris Johnson was the first

big surprise being appointed

Foreign Secretary, while Amber Rudd moves

into Theresa May's old job Mrs May has kept her promise

to appoint a eurosceptic to be in charge of negotiations

with Brussels on leaving the EU, David Davis takes that plum role

and his eurosceptic comrade Liam Fox has taken on another

newly created position; Secretary of State

for International Trade, while Michael Fallon keeps his role

as Defence Secretary. George Osborne,

Michael Gove, Nicky Morgan, have all been

kicked out of the gang. Just before we came on air we also

learnt that Liz Truss has been and Justine Greening will be

the new Education Secretary. We saw that just before we went on

air. We did indeed. The fact that Liz Truss has gone to the Justice

Department and Amber Rudd to the Home Office means that some were

speculating that Mrs may never liked the division between the Home Office

and justice. There was talk that she might bring the departments together

again. She has kept them separate and put a woman in charge of each.

The Department for Education will take on higher education, skills and

print inches is. -- and apprenticeships. Given that were

having a separate department for trade deals, it will be looking as

if the business Department and the Department of Energy and Climate

Change are going to be merged together. Because a lot of

businesses are worried about energy policy, it may be no bad thing to

have them under one roof. We're joined now by Tom Newton-Dunn

from the Sun and Isabel Oakeshott from the Mail, they've both seen

a fair few reshuffles Mrs may's reshuffle to date. The

Notting Hill set has gone. This cabal of people who were at

university together and socialise together, they are used to being in

the ascendancy and running the country. There is a shocked

devastation that they are not in charge any more. A lot have fallen

out with each other. It has had an incredibly traumatic impact on their

lives. What's your take? It is quite astonishingly brutal. We knew

Theresa May was her own woman and was going to be strong but to chop

off so many heads is quite amazing. This is her saying, this is my

government, step out of line and you will be going back to the

backbenches. Something else is going on. Look at the line-up. Someone

rudely said it is the grown-ups in charge. And older line-up of the

Conservative Party. The older guard. It is quite a defensive reshuffle.

Theresa May has carefully put a load of people in position to create a

buffer between her and some massive areas of trouble. Philip Hammond at

the Treasury, he is used to doom and gloom. The man who has to do the

cuts and horrible stuff. Protects her from some of the bad news. David

Davis and Liam Fox running Brexit. If it goes wrong, they are the

people who wanted it. That is only fair. We are learning that Jeremy

Hunt is expected to stay in his post at the Department of Health. Number

ten is going to confirm that shortly. Online, everyone is saying

that he had been fired from Department of Health. Sacked from

the Cabinet. Then it was reined back to moving from health but now we are

being told that he's probably still at the Department of Health. Tom

says, to encourage the others, a pretty good phrase to use, it is

Bastille Day. Is it not the case that if you are a new Prime

Minister, you have also won during the parliamentary term, not won a

Parliamentary election. You do want to stamp your mark. To tell people

it is a new government. done that in spades, the decision to

axe Michael Gove completely is a particularly significant one, it

sends a moral message, there is no doubting among the colleagues of

Michael Gove his competence. He was doing a good job at the Department

for justice, he is clearly an extremely able person. In deciding

to axe him altogether, she is sending out a message about loyalty

and trust, that is very important. In relation to Jeremy Hunt, he does

stay, that will be very controversial. Number ten, the old

number ten, always regarded Jeremy Hunt is a very competent minister,

personable, but he has really come right up against the doctors in this

row over contracts and that has not been resolved and if he is still

there, how does it play out? Potential headache for Theresa May.

That is why we thought he had been sacked, seemed logical. The new

Chief Whip, Gavin Williamson... Me neither! That is a great

appointment. He is... Give us a word on him. He was David

Cameron's PBS, and a very effective one, he was loved by the Tory

backbenches. And, new knows where all of the bodies are. -- PPS. -- he

knows where all of the bodies are. Williamson, if you are watching

television, you cannot come on here, you have two stay anonymous, you are

the Chief Whip. Boris is fun and great, isn't he,

bouncing around like he is going to be the next Prime Minister, and they

never actually... They have just made him Foreign Secretary?... !

LAUGHTER Speechless! Perhaps Boris Johnson

will do the same if Angela Eagle becomes leader of the Labour Party.

Wise decision? And expected evidence of a sense of humour! -- unexpected

evidence. We all know that he is very fun. The way that this has been

set up, he is not going to be involved in the Brexit, I should

imagine, this will be a diminished role. He will be involved in some

way, but presumably David Davies's Brexit department will take the

lead. Liam Fox's trade department will take the lead, he will help

David Davies on trade relationship with Europe, but also take the lead

in new trade relationships with other countries. So, what does the

Foreign Office do? That is the first question for him to answer. LAUGHTER

Are you thinking, not much? There is a huge amount to do, permanent seat

on the United Nations Security Council, there is a load of stuff,

the Commonwealth... There is an interesting potential to build a

Commonwealth trade relationship, and that would be Liam Fox, rather than

Boris You may describe this as a rather clever move of defence by

Theresa May, Boris is still the most likely person to become Prime

Minister afterwards, he has support within the party, where is the one

place where it is almost impossible to pull off a coup, challenge

leadership, on an aeroplane, halfway to Malay share! You cannot do too

much. -- Malaysia. Whether Boris can make the Americans laugh and not

offend the Chinese too much, who knows yet. A lot of people do not

know too much about Philip Hammond, Chancellor of the Exchequer, but we

know him rather on the Daily well, Politics, he would come on a lot, I

doubt he as Chancellor, but he has been interviewed with some very

famous people, not just Jo Coburn, somebody even more famous.

I'm delighted to say that instead of any Labour Minister, we are joined

by... Peppa Pig. I don't think any party

has identified in detail how they will reduce public

spending over the course of the The question to the Labour Party,

to Peppa, if I may, you have all servants, you have

all the data, you are sitting You know all the

forward commitments. Why have you not

published a comprehensive My understanding is that she will be

May chief secretary to the under Mr Heyman. Here is the thing, safe pair

of hands. -- made Chief Secretary to the Treasury under Mr Hammond.

Conservative with a small sea but also a lot of talk from Theresa

May's camp and other parts of ending fiscal austerities and building up a

big infrastructure fund, borrowing and to nearly 0%, more imaginative

things. Really creating a Northern powerhouse which joins South

Yorkshire with Lancashire, meaning that High Speed two is not so

important as state-of-the-art communications east and West. I know

you find it difficult to put Philip Hammond and imaginative in the same

bracket but the thing to say about big Bill, box office fell, he is

quite different from his public persona. Not only somebody who is

competent and personable and he will do a good job, undoubtably. The

first hints that George Osborne was doomed was when they were talking

about changing policy on austerity. At that point it was clear that

George Osborne was out. -- Big Phil. -- Box Office Phil. I have high

hopes for Big Phil. He went into the MoD and sorted out a deficit, he is

highly competent with numbers, he is lacking in emotional intelligence,

the problem with him. He just does not show it to you. You are special?

She is a lucky girl! LAUGHTER She will be the judge of that. If he

is going to deliver this healing society, one nation agenda, then you

need a little bit of empathy about it, standing at the dispatch box and

deliver a thing austerity budget after austerity budget... --

delivering. The idea was not to do that, the former Chancellor wanted

to do the punishment budget, it was so unpopular among Tory MPs, that

she could not continue with him as Chancellor. It was not on the cards.

Kind of economically ridiculous. It was an absurd thing for him to

threaten. Then he bounced back at some stage? Careers are never over

until they are over, he is in his mid-40s. He is very talented and

able. My favourite Philip Hammond story, a senior military person told

me, one week into Philip Mack reports ten year as Defence

Secretary, they had gone in with the normal slide deck, and PowerPoint

presentation and he said, next time, can I have a spreadsheet! -- tenure.

LAUGHTER My kind of guy! -- Philip Hammond's

tenure. Over to Downing Street now, Norman Smith, there he is, our man

outside of number ten and 11, it seems, give us the latest. Patrick

McLoughlin has come out, former Transport Secretary, needed not tell

us what job he has got, it was the only one who would not tell us what

he has got, he has moved somewhere. Jeremy Hunt, we have been talking

about him all morning wondering what has happened to him, he has gone in,

I presume he must be moving from health. You would not invite

somebody in just to tell them that it is as you were, so he must be

moving to some new post. On the women front, I have not seen as many

as we were being promised. I thought we would see an awful lot more, so

far, what we have seen, Justine Greening, Education Secretary,

moving over from international do that. Liz truss taking over as

Justice Secretary from environment, and overnight, the massive promotion

to Home Secretary by Amber arrived, only an MP six years ago and now,

she is Home Secretary. -- Liz Truss. We have not seen this promised march

of the women, so far, maybe that will come later on. But the one

thing that I think everyone here today has kind of been struck by its

the scale of this reshuffle. -- Amber Rudd. This is not a nip and

tuck, this is wholesale surgery. What I kind of take from it is two

things. One, we are seeing the dismantling of the Notting Hill set,

the key figures, George Osborne, Michael Gove, Oliver Letwin, they

have gone. They are out. And part of the message that Theresa May wants

to send is not merely that she is not part of that but that it is

change, big change, new government, this is not carry on Cameron, this

is an entirely different government and that is why we are seeing such

radical reshaping of the cabinet. Maybe they will come maybe they will

come with the appointments. I can do that. Equality rains are the men,

I'm glad to see that. There is still a question next to Jeremy Hunt, we

have seen conflicting indicators about whether he will stay in health

or be moved, we will hold fire. As you say, brutal, guest Francis Maude

and it is a bit personal, do you think that she will come to regret

the fact that she has scattered the corpses all over Downing Street. I

am not... There may be a personal element in despatching Michael Gove,

but actually, I think it is more canny than personal, and I say that

because it is very obvious she has brought in the Brexiteers and said,

you guys, Brexit, that is your problem, sort it out. In the key

Brexit facing departments, Foreign Office, Boris Johnson, the new exit

from the Europeans union Department, what a mouthful, David Davies, and

the new International Trade apartment, Liam Fox. All the Brexit

facing departments have been handed over to the Brexiteers. On one level

you could say, that makes sense, they believe in it and make it --

will make it work. I suspect Theresa May is also thinking down the line

that this makes her politically bombproof if it goes badly wrong,

or, there has to be awkward compromises where we have two tweak

back a bit on ending free movement, whether we have to do a deal to stay

a part of the single market. -- the new International Trade department.

She can say, it is not me, it is the Brexit people... It is a canny move.

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out, Patrick McLoughlin, he has

been moved from transport to Tory party chairman. Interesting, the

great question, what happens to Heathrow? Whoever gets the transport

job, people will be going through their CV, to see if they have ever

said, suggested, knotted anything at all about Gatwick, Heathrow, that

would be the big decision. -- mattered anything at all. It means

the chairman of the Conservative Party... Stephen Crabb is just

walking in... OK... We will come back to you. We will come back to

you if there is any more significant developments. The current new

chairman of the Conservative Party is a former coalminer, perhaps that

plays to Theresa May's... Justine Greening? Education? Yes, we are

up-to-date. And Boris Johnson has already called Secretary of State

John Kerry, in the United States. The first call. Theresa May's first

call was to Angela Merkel. David Cameron told MPs

yesterday that his party had managed resignation,

nomination, all before Labour had

decided the rules Well, today the party

is confirming those rules, but the contest is anything

but straightforward It is a very difficult meeting. It

was highly emotionally charged. A number of colleagues were very upset

during the meeting, including myself.

There was a number of threats made and a number of votes that were

obviously crucial in determining the future of the Labour Party.

VOICEOVER: Jeremy Corbyn emerged from Tuesday's fractious marathon

emergency session of Labour's governing body after a torrid two

weeks. Having suffered a vote of no-confidence by fellow MPs, and a

leadership challenge, a vote on whether he could automatically stand

again went his way. I'm delighted to say, the Labour Party national

executive has decided that an incumbent is automatically on the

ballot paper... CHEERING He may come to rue his decision to

leave the crucial meeting at which he had a vote early. Jeremy Corbyn

left the room, went to greet supporters outside, to see the

media, and the NEC then made some significant decisions about the

contest, that gave Jeremy Corbyn's opponents on the NEC, and in labour

more widely, some hope that they can beat him.

It was so different last September. Jeremy Corbyn beat off rivals for

the leadership with an impressive 67% of the vote. Ten months on,

despite losing support from 80% of his Parliamentary party, he has

refused to resign claiming he is still the overwhelming favourite

among members. Now Angela Eagle and Owen Smith have launched leadership

campaigns and the battle for the future of the party is underway. So

how could rule changes affect the contest? When Jeremy Corbyn was

elected by 60% of the electorate it was under one member one vote and

49% were from party members. The other half were from registered

supporters who paid a one-off fee for a vote. The rest from affiliated

members of the Labour Party. For this summer's contest the party

membership vote is based on members who joined before January this year.

Pretty much the same thing. However, for registered voters it has changed

drastically. The amount you have to pay has gone up from ?3 to ?25 and

the time to do that has gone down from three months to two days. The

strategy was to recruit centrist voters from outside Labour by

something like the ?3 scheme. Now the fee is ?25 and supporters only

have two days to sign up. There is much less attempt to do that. --

opportunity to do that. That reflects fears that they wouldn't be

able to attract enough supporters to the party to make a difference. They

think the best hope of beating Jeremy Corbyn is to shrink the

electorate. There is a third group that can support. Affiliated

supporters. Could Corbyn supporters use this route to vote? We now

understand that potentially cheaper route has been blocked by Labour's

procedural committee who have ruled that only people who join the

affiliated groups before January 12 will be able to vote. Discussions

are underway to make their deadlines earlier than August the 8th.

To discuss this we're joined by Matt Wrack, General Secretary

who resigned as Shadow Attorney General in January,

and who is backing Owen Smith in the Labour leadership contest.

Why does somebody who joined three months ago have less right to vote

than a registered supporter who can join next Tuesday? The idea is quite

simply to have a period so that there is no late flood of members.

It was a mistake from your perspective last time to have ?3

membership. The issue last time was the logistics of trying to manage

it. We have to ensure that those who sign up share their aims and values

of the Labour Party and trying to do that with the numbers and in the

time to do that proved extraordinarily difficult. They have

done their best to make this a manageable and fair process. To a

normal person watching, trying to navigate through it is ridiculous.

It's not grown-up politics. Jeremy Corbyn refusing to leave the room

during the NEC meeting. Attempts to circumvent the rules on registered

supporters joining. None of this is grown-up politics. Jeremy Corbyn is

a member of the National executive voting. There is no obligation for

him to leave any meeting. Absolutely it is grown-up. I've been in the

labour movement all my life and I've never seen a committee where

somebody who is entitled to a vote at committee is asked to leave the

room. That is pretty scandalous. I think there is a number of things

going on. I was at a meeting yesterday and a firefighter of 39

years service who joined the Labour Party in January has been excluded

from voting. It is exactly the kind of people who should be in the

Labour ranks. He has been ruled out but somebody who has joined in a

narrow two-day window can vote. That is the contradiction. There is a

valid argument that the ?3 membership cost didn't cover costs

last year but a ?10 membership would appeal to the people that Labour

should appeal to. You are terrified that Jeremy Corbyn will win again so

you are trying to price people out of voting for him? That isn't it.

You have to be able to ensure that those who sign up to vote share the

aims and values of the Labour Party. There was a terrific problem doing

that last summer. We have to have a manageable process. These are people

who have already joined the Labour Party. About 135,000 existing

members will be excluded. In March 2015 there would have been recent

joiners of my constituency party who would be excluded as well. This

gives management to the process and it ensures that people share the

aims and values. Ayew saying that those people who joined don't? I'm

not saying that but it is a process of ensuring that those people don't.

What about Jeremy Corbyn clinging on to power when his Parliamentary

party has deserted him. Let's say he does get re-elected. He still won't

have the support of Labour MPs. They still won't serve in his shadow

Carrie -- cabinet. He won't be able to get his policies through. He will

study failing his voters because there will be no functioning

opposition. Take the example of Trident on Monday. There will be no

representation of his view on Monday. Clive Lewis has asked for a

free vote. I hope it will be a democratic debate about policy. I

would expect members to comply and accept the decision of the Labour

members at the end of the process. What I'm saying is that they won't.

What people are saying now and after a contest might be two different

things. Those policies of the Labour Party are not being put forward now.

This is regrettable but people have been coordinating this for a long

time. Not some, 80%. Some people have been planning this for a long

time and others have been caught up in it. There is a mood in the Labour

Party that this ends. People have been asking their Parliamentary

members not to support the coup against Jeremy Corbyn. Now they are

telling them not to meet. Will you fall in behind Jeremy Corbyn and

John McDonnell and others to support their domestic policy agenda? We

have to accept the decision, yes. I resigned because there was this

massive lack of confidence in his leadership but I can support our

aims as a member of the Labour Party in a variety of ways. And that is

welcome. This is a battle between two camps trying to get as many of

their supporters out. It is a leadership contest about who can get

supporters out and who can sign up as many as they can in two days. And

woman it? There is great in these as to support Jeremy Corbyn's campaign

because he has stood by working people. He stands for public

services and the things that we want to hear from a Labour Party and

unfortunately we haven't always heard them. Is support seeping away

in the way that Stephen Kinnock said yesterday? There are people who

supported Jeremy last year who are telling me that they wouldn't do so

now. There isn't a race to sign people up. Hundreds of thousands of

long-standing Labour members are out there to make the decision as well.

It is about a considered decision by our party members. The party's

future in terms of splitting or not. There was a claim that the Shadow

Chancellor was prepared to split the party if that was what it takes.

Denied by the Chancellor but Owen Smith insists that's what he said.

Nobody wants to see a split. But for Jeremy Corbyn to stay as it were the

party splitting? There is a democratic process that Jeremy

Corbyn has committed to and as a long-standing loyal member of the

Labour Party he has not remotely raised the question of a split. The

only people doing that are a Labour MEP.... And John McDonald so claims

Owen Smith and five other people and that room. That's not the way to go

into it. So you would condemn a -- John McDonnell for saying that? If

he says he didn't say that, I believe he didn't say that. He is a

very committed and long-standing Labour MP. News coming in thick and

fast. Theresa Villers has resigned from her post. She was offered

another role away from Northern Ireland but she didn't feel she

could take it. She is now away from the government. It took Margaret

Thatcher for years to get a Cabinet that she wanted. Theresa May looks

like she has done it in 24 hours. She's not just changing the Cabinet.

There are major changes, we think, underfoot in the structure of

government. It looks like the business Department has gone. The

Department of Energy and Climate Change, gone entirely. The

Department for Transport are gone. We are being told that there will be

a new Department of business, energy and industry. Energy and climate

change will move into a business Department. I would suggest that

means energy policy would change because it will be even more by

industry rather than by climate change as it was. We also understand

that there could be a new infrastructure Department to be set

up as well. Probably where transport could end up. Very interesting.

These are quite major changes. I think more manger changes. Ted Heath

brought in the environment Department and trade and industry

and this is one of the biggest shake-up in Whitehall departments

going way back to them. So how do these departments get organised?

Let's listen to two of the men heading to two of the new

departments. What are your priorities? We will decide those

collectively. Are you going to be prioritising access to the single

market? Wait and see. Is Boris Johnson your boss? I think we have

tremendous opportunities to increase our global profile and we should be

extraordinarily optimistic and confident about the future. The new

Minister for trade, if I can call him that. Let's see how significant

these Whitehall changes are. We are joined by Julian MacBrayne from the

Institute for government. There is a lot more change than we thought when

we booked you to come on. It does seem like a very large change to the

structure of government and the shape of departments. David Cameron

was very conservative about this. The bubbly because he didn't believe

that changing things round made people concentrate on their day job.

It reflects Theresa May's priorities. Francis you have been at

the heart of government and there is a lot of talk on giving

infrastructure a new role. A lot of talk that energy policy was a mess.

Almost as big a mess as it is in Germany at the moment. A line that

with the business Department, these are not changes for the sake of

changes. They reflect the direction that this government wants to go.

I am always sceptical about Whitehall changes, they cost money,

you move deckchairs around... New titles, new plaques! The same people

in slightly different desks. The theory is always that it creates

joined up government, all that you do is move the boundaries to

different places... And you disrupt all of the ways for people to work

together across those boundaries. It is very disruptive. There can be

benefits from it, the business Department, which I was partly in

over the last year, I think that was poorly led, not officially led

department, it needs shaking up. Poorly led by the permanent

bureaucracy? Yes, I found it not a high functioning. Going back to

education, which is where we were eight years ago. Yes, kind of makes

sense. Yes, I understand universities are connected to

education(!) and we have a couple of new departments, one for trade

deals, Liam Fox, one with the specific task of negotiating our

withdrawal from the European Union, where do they get the people for

that? At the moment, you are right at the heart of this, easy to talk

about reorganisation and abstract, Francis Maude is right, it is the

same people you are trying to organise into the spaces, they are

pulling in people from Whitehall, particularly into the Brexit

department. That will go on to the next few weeks, this is literally

finding desks, making sure people have the Internet connection, or

whatever! When they get down to work they may base that on the

infrastructure around the Cabinet Office. Trade is interesting,

because there was a thought that maybe the Brexit minister would get

trade, and create a proper permanent department that could go on, instead

we have this department that is short-term, just doing the

negotiation, and a trade Department separate from that. The Trade

Minister is under instruction to do as many trade deals as they can. No

one person can do that, travelling around the world to do that and do

the renegotiation at the same time. That is right. It will be

fascinating to see how money negotiations we can get under way.

One month ago, Theresa May, two weeks ago, she did not know that she

was going to be Prime Minister, when Ted Heath came in, 1970, he had

given massive thought to how to reorganise Whitehall, and the

departments, first-ever department of the environment in the Western

world, big things. Even Tony and Gordon Brown made sure they had

thought about them, debated them privately. Here we have major

change, we have no evidence that Theresa May was ever thinking of any

of this. And around elections, the opposition talks to civil servants

very privately and give them warning, we put that in

deliberately, this is hugely disruptive, people sitting at desks

thinking, where am I working, where am I going to be based next? The

wage levels between these departments are different... People

spend ages talking about that. It is just... It is dangerous to stick

this distraction on top of the huge challenges for government but also

remember, we probably have too reorganise UK Government again as it

becomes clear exactly what the new relationship is with Europe and what

we have to do that we have not done previously. It is a little

surprising that she has chosen to do this big change this quickly,

presumably with this little planning. Thank you for that, it

will keep the Institute of government in a job! LAUGHTER

Rat problem and not necessarily that is at the forefront of the nation's

mind... We can confirm, Jeremy Hunt will continue as Secretary of State

for Health! We have managed to get that wrong about six different ways

so far. Good to get the record straight, this is a press release by

number ten. And a new leader for the House of Lords. Amanda is very good.

She has been there a long time, very young, but extremely capable.

Henrietta Barnet School and the adversity of Cambridge. State school

educated, had now of the education Department. Again, plaintive Theresa

May's rhetoric. we've just had a referendum

in Britain's membership of the EU, it was only three weeks ago,

although it might seem longer. But there have been calls from some

quarters for a second referendum, from Labour leadership challenger

Owen Smith. Later in the year MPs

will debate a petition on Parliament's website calling

for a second referendum after it was signed by more

than four million people. The idea has already been debated

in the House of Lords, talking about what she

thinks should happen. In the interests of democracy, the

British people must be given the chance to vote on the deal to leave

the EU once we finally know what that deal is and what that deal

costs, in terms of economy, pensions, global influence,

geographical borders and last but not least our precious identity as a

tolerant, open facing nation. I say, let the people decide.

And to discuss the possibility of a second referendum or vote,

I'm joined by the Labour MPs David Lammy and Frank Field.

David voted to remain in the EU and Frank voted to leave.

Is to make that clear. The online petition that calls for a second EU

referendum will be debated in parliament, after it was signed by

4.1 million people. Why, what is the point, there is not going to be a

second referendum? We have a petition process, and actually, that

is a record number of people for any petition I think that we have had.

In the House of Commons. That is the first thing, people want it, the

second thing is to say, there is no plan. When we say Brexit means

Brexit, it is not clear what is the plan, there is a number of very

morsel leavers who say, we will not get 250 million a week, how can you

get free trade without free movement. -- very remorseful

leavers. All of this is out there and we should be having a debate and

vote in the House of Commons. Let's be clear, the petitions committee

said that the debate did not mean that it was supporting the call,

rerunning the referendum that we have just had, it was to change to

-- too late to change the rules, having a debate is fine, what you

are suggesting is having a referendum on the deal all the plan

that is then put together, by Theresa May's government, you

support that? My primary view is that it should come back to

Parliament, there should be no Article 50 without Parliament

acting, ultimately, the plan has to come back to Parliament or back to

the people. What do you say to that, 4.1 million people, then at people

who have buyers were most, and the plan that no one knows what it looks

like, why shouldn't Parliament be the body that decides whether we

actually trigger Brexit? -- buyers remorse. 17 million voting to come

out, not surprisingly people might want another view, but the

government has moved on, people may have noticed, the government has

shaped itself about implementing the bridge that people wanted in that

referendum. -- the pledge. We have the key ministries about how we

disengage from the current relationship with Europe to forge a

new one. The idea that it is going back on this, that is Coquelin. The

government will not go back on this. The referendum result was advisory.

That is true. You can say that. It is true. Theresa May does not think

it is advisory, she is acting on it, the key first appointments were

about implementing the referendum pledge, the idea that it was merely

advisory, given the state politics is in and the distrust of

politicians, is an absurd idea. David, catch up, it was a decisive

vote, you may not like it, 4.1 million people may not like it but

it has happened, and the government is moving ahead with trying to turn

it, as they would argue, into something positive, there is no

going back. You cannot describe a vote in which 67% of those eligible

to take part did not vote for it as decisive. 16 million people in

Britain did not vote to leave the EU, 13 million people stayed at

home, I should imagine they like the status quo. If we want to remain a

united country, let's listen to the advice, but recognise that a larger

chunk of the country did not go for this, the economy is going south, we

have no trade deals with any other country in the world, it will take

quite a long time to negotiate them, we should pause and reflect, we

should think very carefully about the future of this country, yes,

access the advice, but access that many millions of people did not vote

for Brexit. Many more than did. Last thing we want to do is pause, a

decision has been made, the government is carrying it out, it is

crucial that we get on implementing the agenda, the agenda is something

different, where the tension is going to be, particularly acute for

the Labour Party, the country has voted to leave, overwhelmingly

Labour members of Parliament are in favour of staying. That is why David

quite rightly says, bring it back to Parliament. Owen Smith, Ligue

leadership challenger, he says that he would like a second vote. --

leadership challenger. I'm speechless about the idea thinking

that is relevant to what is happening at the present time. The

key thing would be that the people have voted to come out, and there is

a majority in parliament that wants to remain, the tension would be, how

does the government manage the exit strategy. We have run out of time, I

am afraid. Straight back to Norman Smith to get

an update on the cabinet reshuffle. Norman, Jeremy to stay after all,

Jeremy Hunt, did we get it wrong, has it been in and out? We got signs

saying that he was being sacked and then moving on by his own polishing,

then he turned up here, and then he comes out and he says he is staying

where he is. -- his own violation. Theresa Villiers was offered another

job and said, no, I am leaving, and trying to work out what that could

be, perhaps it was Justine Greening, International the, perhaps she did

not want to be traipsing around the world. -- volition. The other

interesting thing about three civilians, from where I am sitting,

I'm not seeing a whole load of women coming in here, as we have been

promised. By my counting, she has lost Nicky Morgan, education, and

she has lost Theresa Villiers, and I'm not seeing new faces, Amber Rudd

was in cabinet, Justine Greening was there, and Liz Truss. I can only

presume that we are going to see a lot of women this afternoon if

Theresa May is going to meet her pledge to have a record number of

women in this cabinet. We are going to leave it there and we are going

to leave you looking for the women... (!) it is a job that

somebody has to do... It is a safe job in your hands! LAUGHTER

We look forward to updates throughout the afternoon.

We did not have time to bring you our cartoonist, we simply ran out of

time. Cartoons are always fun and we wanted to talk about how the

cartoonist were going to depict Theresa May, we will have plenty of

time to do that in the weeks and months ahead.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

but I will be here at 11.45 pm for This Week

with Alan Johnson, Michael Portillo, Alan Rosen,

And I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories