21/07/2016 Daily Politics


21/07/2016

Jo Coburn looks at the prospects for Theresa May's government and the Labour leadership contest with the Spectator Magazine editor Fraser Nelson and commentator Steve Richards.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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More than 180,000 people have signed up to Labour in just two days,

:00:41.:00:44.

but how many of them have joined to support Jeremy Corbyn,

:00:45.:00:46.

Mr Corbyn has this morning launched his campaign

:00:47.:00:54.

to remain as Labour leader, with a promise to crackdown on firms

:00:55.:00:58.

His challenger Owen Smith appears to have a mountain to climb.

:00:59.:01:02.

Theresa May begun talks with European leaders

:01:03.:01:07.

about the terms of Britain's exit from the EU - yesterday she was in

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Berlin with Angela Merkel, will she have a trickier time

:01:12.:01:14.

One month on from the referendum result which stunned the world,

:01:15.:01:20.

we'll hear from a Vote Leave campaign insider about

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And as MPs pack up and leave Westminster until September,

:01:24.:01:30.

what books will they take with them to the beach?

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We'll bring you their definitive summer reading list.

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All that in the next hour and with us for the whole

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of the programme today two journalists who may look

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like a highbrow pair, but really they're just

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as accessible and ready for the beach as any

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Think of them as the Dan Brown and James Patterson

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of political journalism - only without the sales figures.

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It's Steve Richards and Fraser Nelson.

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So, Parliament rises for its annual summer recess today,

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many MPs have already left Westminster for their constituencies

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and plenty of them will be breathing a sigh of relief after a period

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in politics which has been more turbulent than any in recent memory.

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But while some of them will be getting a holiday, for others it's

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going to be a long hot summer with plenty of hard work

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For Labour members it will be an unsettled few months,

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as Storm Owen Smith takes on Cyclone Jeremy Corbyn.

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The two will be travelling the country, as ballot papers sweep

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And the results will be announced at a special conference

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Two other parties will also have leadership contests over the summer.

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On the first weekend of September we will find out which

:02:51.:02:54.

Green Party hopeful will have their time in the sun.

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And next week we get the final list of Ukip leadership hopefuls,

:02:59.:03:05.

who come mid-September, will replace the El Nino of UK

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The Conservatives are experiencing a calmer front now their leadership

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question is settled, or at least as calm as it gets

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in the post-referendum world of politics.

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Theresa May will be hoping the Trade Winds are favourable

:03:16.:03:21.

as she grapples with preparations for the Brexit negotiations -

:03:22.:03:24.

having committed to triggering Article 50 by the end of the year.

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And she'll be hoping to avert predictions of gathering

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economic grey clouds, as yesterday the Bank of England

:03:35.:03:36.

reported many companies were adopting a "business

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as usual" approach after last month's referendum result.

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Well, the Prime Minister has been visiting European leaders

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to discuss her approach to leaving the EU.

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Today she's due to meet with President Hollande

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That follows her meeting yesterday with German Chancellor,

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Mrs Merkel agreed with Mrs May that the UK shouldn't

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rush for the exit door, but should take its time

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I want to work with Chancellor Merkel and my colleagues around

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the European Council in a constructive spirit,

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to make this a sensible and orderly departure.

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All of us will need time to prepare for these negotiations

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and the United Kingdom will not invoke Article 50

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That is why I have said already this will not happen before

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I understand this timescale will not please everyone but I think

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it is important to provide clarity on that now.

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We should strive for a solution which respects the decision

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of British voters, but also respects the interests of our

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Together we should maximise the opportunities for

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We're joined now by the Conservative MP Mark Field.

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Welcome to the Daily Politics. The last one before the recess. First

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meetings, you could say always contain warm words and it seemed to

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go well. But that doesn't necessarily mean it will be easy

:04:59.:05:02.

from now on Think everyone knows it is going to be tough. In the

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Conservative Party we know that and I think that Angela Merkel's team

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out in Germany are well awhich are there will be difficulties as we try

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to extricate ourselves from the European Union. It was a positive

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first meeting and it has been remarked by a number of political

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commentator that is there are profound similarities in the

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political stale of the two ladies, and I think it'll go well. It is

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quite amazing, I suppose, to see two women together at the top of

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politics, it isn't often that you see that. I think we will see more

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of it in the months and years to come. It is a good thing, isn't it?

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Well, any Scot will be well-used to seeing women at the top of the

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#35r789. Full of them. Can't move without them? In Scotland, it is

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leading world politics, in having women, as presiding officers and

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leading parties. It may be unusual here but in Holyrood people have

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been used to it for sometime. It could be perhaps, Hillary Clinton in

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and perhaps, a female President of France. Well, before that happens,

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Francois Hollande is still there in France. How tricky is that meeting

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going to be? He is going to be frosier, isn't he? I think it will

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be fine. Theresa May is an emollient politician. In contrast to Gordon

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Brown, nine years ago, he was almost bereft of ideas and a spent force.

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What has surprised everyone with Theresa May, she is full of ideas,

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firm ideas, on what she hopes to do, for example, to encourage social

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mobility which seems to have gone downhill. She's not enthralled by

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the way, Blair, Brown and Cameron and Osborne were with the City and

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metropolitan values. There is a real sense of mission there. But she

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doesn't know what she is going to do with Brexit and that at the moment

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will be the defining issue. I think you are right about that in one

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sense, however it is all the more reason why she has a domestic agenda

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she is also looking to put together. We don't know how long the Brexit

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issue will take. Don't get me wrong, I'm in the unreal it be, it is going

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to be a dark cloud with difficulties for the political class. It is all

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the more reason why what has been interesting, is she hasn't defined

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the early days of her Prime Ministerier by Brexit. We know by

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Mrs America Mark, she said to her own Parliament, that the UK can't

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cherry pick. - Mrs Merkel. And that will be the potential pit

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fall. I think it will be unrealistic to think that we can cherry pick on

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single market and passporting without having to give some leeway

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as far as free movement is concerned. However, I think you also

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have to remember there is a lot of volitility throughout Europe. We

:07:50.:07:51.

have elections in France and Germany. The Italian banks are in

:07:52.:07:55.

deep trouble. Actually, we have to remember we are going to be having

:07:56.:07:58.

this negotiation over the next two or three years once Article 50 is

:07:59.:08:02.

triggered but that's not going to be taking place in a vacuum, it will be

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being taking place in a volatile situation in the rest of Europe,

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there are tremendous opportunities, pro-I had vooing we diplomatically

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we grasp them. How do you assess her chances of getting a deal to sell to

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the British people With great difficulty. This early period

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reminds me of when John Major took over, it felt like a new Government

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after a traumatic period for the Conservative Party. He moved away

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from the past, abolishing things like the poll tax, which was

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associated with the Thatcherite passed and the way that Theresa May

:08:39.:08:42.

has moved away from the Cameroons now. But Europe hovered for John

:08:43.:08:47.

Major in the form of the Maastricht Treaty. And Brexit hovers for

:08:48.:08:53.

Theresa May and it is bigger and more problematic than max trict even

:08:54.:08:58.

though it was a nightmare for John Major. Although it feels fresh and

:08:59.:09:04.

new and she has moved into the job with poise. This is the honeymoon

:09:05.:09:09.

period and Brexit does pose many, many nightmarish problems for her.

:09:10.:09:12.

Immigration will be one of them. She restated about the commitment to

:09:13.:09:16.

bring net migration down to tens of thousands. She said it would take

:09:17.:09:20.

sometime. A realisation that perhaps it just isn't achievable. Well, not

:09:21.:09:24.

for the next ten years, anyway. If you look at the projections, nobody

:09:25.:09:29.

envisaging that happening. But interestingly she says will will

:09:30.:09:31.

control free movement rather than abolish it. This relishes the

:09:32.:09:39.

prospect... Of of a deal being done. Jiem' snot as gloomy as stee. There

:09:40.:09:43.

are many ways of leaving the EU. Britain voted for a way. I don't

:09:44.:09:48.

think there are many rocks ahead of her. But you have to satisfy many of

:09:49.:09:52.

the people who voted for Brexit and who wouldn't control of movement.

:09:53.:09:59.

But people voted for a different range of reasons. I think the schism

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could be the eurozone verses the EU I think there is an opportunity if

:10:04.:10:10.

we go down an down the Norwegian route, the EU-light approach, we

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would have a situation like the Czechs and Swedes, over the next few

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years. If it is achievable, of course. Let's look at the banking

:10:18.:10:21.

industry. There are companies like that sector that have been able to

:10:22.:10:25.

operate across the EU as long as they have a base in the UK called

:10:26.:10:30.

passporting that. Will not continue until a new deal is arranged for

:10:31.:10:33.

them as well? It'll continue until we know what will happen. Truth of

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the matter is obviously that will be something that will have to be

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negotiated to a certain extent. I think it is true to say... Are you

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worried about it? Think it is true to say that the City of Europe will

:10:46.:10:50.

lose some of that bishops it would be naive to think some won't go to

:10:51.:10:54.

Dublin, Frankfurt or Paris. How big a hit will it be? There are

:10:55.:10:57.

opportunities that also arise. One of the things about the City of

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London and I was saying this before the referendum it is not an Joan

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shore centre for Europe it is an off-shore centre for around the

:11:07.:11:08.

world that brings problems as well but tlurnts as a global financial

:11:09.:11:12.

centre. You have talked about them, but we don't know how they are going

:11:13.:11:15.

to form, fair enough. In the meantime you would expect other EU

:11:16.:11:19.

countries to jump in there. We have heard the French Prime Minister say

:11:20.:11:23.

- we want it build the financial capital, you remember Boris Johnson

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saying to the French businesses come to London, now they will do that in

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reverse. The same arguments were put is a years ago when we didn't join

:11:32.:11:37.

the euro. And the critical mass of London is stronger against Paris or

:11:38.:11:42.

Frankfurt since that time. I'm in the naive thinking there will not be

:11:43.:11:47.

difficulties but I don't think it is all doom and gloom and it won't be

:11:48.:11:51.

easy for par toys reinvent itself as a financial global cap. A how much

:11:52.:11:59.

goodwill is there across the EU to what Britain is trying to do? I

:12:00.:12:03.

think it is wrong to look at it with good L I agree with Mark. It'll be

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fine with France tonight, in tonal atmospherics, here is a new Prime

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Minister. But they will have to calculate what is in their own

:12:13.:12:17.

self-interest, so for example, the French presidential election will

:12:18.:12:21.

play a bigger calculation in how France plays this over the next 12

:12:22.:12:25.

months rather than goodwill on either side. Similarly the next

:12:26.:12:28.

German election which will be uppermost in Merkel's mind. This is

:12:29.:12:32.

where the game of chess gets so complicated. They will have to

:12:33.:12:36.

calculate what their electorates are thinking... Are prepared to...

:12:37.:12:43.

Prepared to accept. On the whole issue of free, movement, for

:12:44.:12:48.

example, the rise of Le Pen in France, may well mean the French are

:12:49.:12:52.

happy to row in behind some sort of hybrid deal we could be talking

:12:53.:12:58.

about come the early part of 2017. So there are opportunities, the

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diplomacy element and one thing I would say which has been evident, so

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many European reads such perfect English and read our primary

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sources. The one thing many of our ministers have to do is not spend

:13:08.:13:11.

their time with a mega phone saying what they are going to end up doing.

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The difficulty is so many people now read the Times and Telegraph on a

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daily basis... And all publications. The The contrast we have, we pick up

:13:23.:13:27.

once a month what is happening in the economist from Swedish politics

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and you what is happening in Italy cops from a diplomat. I think we

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need to, as I say we have a stronger hand that we might think and need to

:13:35.:13:38.

play the diplomatic cards carefully. Well, thank you very much.

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Now it's time for our daily quiz, and it's all about former

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It's been reported this morning that before last year's general election

:13:44.:13:46.

Mr Clegg spent two days and close to ?8,000 doing something

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that the party hoped would show he could be "fun".

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Did he, A) Go to a theme park in a baseball cap?

:13:52.:13:56.

C) Film his own version of a pop video?

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Or D) Erect a 'Cleggstone' in his back garden?

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At the end of the show Steve and Fraser

:14:10.:14:13.

The Labour Party is gearing up to spend a second consecutive summer

:14:14.:14:20.

While last year's was all about Jeremy Corbyn's surge

:14:21.:14:23.

from nowhere to beat his more established rivals, this year's

:14:24.:14:26.

looks like being a hard-fought and bitterly divisive contest

:14:27.:14:29.

between Mr Corbyn and his challenger Owen Smith, who is backed

:14:30.:14:31.

The election, which ends in September, is being fought

:14:32.:14:39.

on a one-member-one-vote basis, and there's been a scramble to sign

:14:40.:14:42.

In the past 48 hours, an extra 183,000 people have paid

:14:43.:14:49.

?25 to become registered supporters and vote in the ballot.

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That means a total of more than ?4.5 million for the party coffers.

:14:55.:14:59.

It's not clear how many people were signing up to vote

:15:00.:15:05.

for or against Mr Corbyn, but a spokesman for Mr Corbyn has

:15:06.:15:08.

said it is "reasonable to assume" that the majority

:15:09.:15:10.

of the new registrations come from supporters of the

:15:11.:15:12.

Well, Owen Smith is holding a rally in Birmingham later today,

:15:13.:15:16.

and this morning he was asked whether he was worried

:15:17.:15:19.

about lots of the new registrations being from Corbyn supporters.

:15:20.:15:23.

Well, they might be, but we don't know, do we?

:15:24.:15:27.

Let's be blunt, we don't know how those people have joined.

:15:28.:15:30.

I've got friends who have joined, one or two, because they want

:15:31.:15:33.

I'm sure a couple of Jeremy's friends have joined, as well.

:15:34.:15:37.

If they do end up being on that side, it looks pretty difficult

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for you, would that end up in a split of the party?

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The reason I'm running is very simply because I think the party

:15:46.:15:47.

is in danger of splitting and if we do split the Labour Party

:15:48.:15:51.

So that was Owen Smith, let's listen now to Jeremy Corbyn

:15:52.:15:54.

launching his re-election campaign in London just a short while ago.

:15:55.:15:57.

I wish they were all on board and I wish they would play a full part in

:15:58.:16:05.

the economic debate yesterday when euro John McDonnell -- when John

:16:06.:16:15.

McDonnell was really putting this to the government. We have a government

:16:16.:16:22.

creating worse divisions in our country, and it is their job to get

:16:23.:16:25.

behind the campaign against this government. This party is going

:16:26.:16:30.

places, it is strong and capable of winning a general election, and if

:16:31.:16:34.

I'm leader of the party I will be that Prime Minister.

:16:35.:16:38.

We're joined now by the Labour MP Kerry McCarthy, she's supporting

:16:39.:16:40.

Owen Smith for leader, and Barbara Ntumy from Momentum

:16:41.:16:43.

which is an organisation supporting Jeremy Corbyn.

:16:44.:16:48.

Barbara, what is the evidence that the majority of new registrations

:16:49.:17:00.

are Jeremy Corbyn supporters? Momentum had a lot of people engaged

:17:01.:17:04.

and we did a lot of recruiting of getting people to sign up for just

:17:05.:17:10.

?25 and we are very confident, even though we don't know the numbers,

:17:11.:17:13.

but we are confident people have joined to support Jeremy. There was

:17:14.:17:18.

also the saving Labour campaign, people were urging people to come

:17:19.:17:22.

together to save the Labour Party because this is absolute crisis

:17:23.:17:27.

point as Owen said, and there were people who signed up through that,

:17:28.:17:30.

you can't assume that the people that voted for Jeremy last time are

:17:31.:17:34.

going to vote for him this time. I've spoken to people in my

:17:35.:17:38.

constituency who say they realised they did the wrong thing. It is

:17:39.:17:45.

interesting. Just one example, one of the lobby correspondents said the

:17:46.:17:54.

latest sampling of 183,000 new registrations are 60-40 in favour of

:17:55.:17:59.

Owen Smith. That is a surprise, but there are many people already

:18:00.:18:03.

members, Jeremy Hunt the support of many of the members, not just the ?3

:18:04.:18:10.

voters, and in the next week we will have Jeremy and Owen putting their

:18:11.:18:14.

manifesto forward, and I'm slightly worried that Owen is pitching to the

:18:15.:18:19.

left, because Jeremy has changed the debate, so people know they have got

:18:20.:18:22.

to say the things that people can hold onto. You say you are worried,

:18:23.:18:29.

surely that would fill you with confidence? I'm worried he is

:18:30.:18:35.

pitching to the left even though he is not that left, his record does

:18:36.:18:37.

not show that he has been campaigning on these issues, he

:18:38.:18:42.

abstained on the welfare debate, you can't abstain on very crucial things

:18:43.:18:44.

which will affect millions of people. As Secretary of State for

:18:45.:18:50.

Work and Pensions Owen led the charge against tax credits where we

:18:51.:18:56.

got the government to do a U-turn, the government MPs voted against it.

:18:57.:19:01.

This is a nonsense line which is being peddled, in the same way they

:19:02.:19:04.

tried to cast aspersions on commitment to the NHS which is free

:19:05.:19:09.

at the point of delivery, we have got to get away from that. We need a

:19:10.:19:14.

genuine and honest debate about these candidates and what they stand

:19:15.:19:17.

for and what they can do and what their abilities are. It is not just

:19:18.:19:22.

what you say, it is what you do as a politician and whether you have a

:19:23.:19:26.

strategy for dealing with the crisis the country finds itself in. I

:19:27.:19:31.

agree, is what you do. I find it hard to believe that loads of people

:19:32.:19:35.

that resign from the Shadow Cabinet are now saying they tried their best

:19:36.:19:39.

to work with him, if you look at what has unfolded, it seems half the

:19:40.:19:43.

effort was put in and the other half was thinking of a way to get rid of

:19:44.:19:47.

him. It was not a spontaneous thing, it was very organised. You can't

:19:48.:19:51.

spend time saying you are trying to work hard with someone, and then

:19:52.:19:54.

throw that away at the drop of a hat. 80% of the Parliamentary Labour

:19:55.:20:00.

Party, that spans all the politics which exists within the

:20:01.:20:02.

Parliamentary Labour Party, certainly. I did not think he was

:20:03.:20:07.

doing a great job as leader and I did not support him to become leader

:20:08.:20:12.

but I recognised he had a mandate. In my case I was disappointed with

:20:13.:20:16.

his lack of leadership, and it was obvious he was not fully on board

:20:17.:20:27.

with the Remain campaign. There seemed a complete lack of concern,

:20:28.:20:34.

used the phrase, we campaigned around the country but we were

:20:35.:20:37.

ultimately unsuccessful, and that is all he said, but everyone else said

:20:38.:20:41.

it was devastating, so many issues we need to be addressing. We are

:20:42.:20:46.

looking to the leader to set out what happens next. We had a PLP

:20:47.:20:50.

hustings on Monday and Jeremy said we have two years to trigger article

:20:51.:20:55.

50 and that brings it home. That is not even true. He does not

:20:56.:21:00.

understand... He does not understand anything about Brexit. Labour

:21:01.:21:05.

supporters of voted to stay, it was Ukip and the Conservative supporters

:21:06.:21:12.

who voted to leave, you cannot blame Brexit on Jeremy Corbyn. Don't talk

:21:13.:21:18.

over each other. I'm not blaming Jeremy Corbyn for the referendum

:21:19.:21:22.

result, but I do think he was very lacklustre during the campaign. What

:21:23.:21:26.

I was looking for after the referendum result, a sign that he

:21:27.:21:30.

was bothered about it, and he did not seem bothered at all, but also

:21:31.:21:34.

that he had a sense of where we were going to go next. He called for

:21:35.:21:39.

article 50, only him and Nigel Farage called for it to be triggered

:21:40.:21:42.

immediately, and that shows he did not understand what the situation

:21:43.:21:48.

was and the importance of triggering Article 50 and at the PLP hustings

:21:49.:21:52.

on Monday he said we have two years to trigger article 50 which is not

:21:53.:21:56.

the case. He doesn't understand and he doesn't really care about it. To

:21:57.:22:02.

the nature of the campaign. Jeremy Corbyn says he doesn't want the

:22:03.:22:06.

contest to end up in the gutter. We are going to put up a poster, pitch

:22:07.:22:10.

of Jeremy Corbyn and Owen Smith, in a moment, does this represent not

:22:11.:22:14.

going to the gutter? -- a picture. Owen Smith says he was invited to a

:22:15.:22:29.

defence event because it was a significant employer in his

:22:30.:22:34.

constituency, but he didn't go. Is that post-affair? I did not make the

:22:35.:22:45.

poster. -- poster fair? Jeremy Corbyn supporters have done it.

:22:46.:22:50.

Should it be called out? Definitely, it is not accept of all, but none of

:22:51.:22:54.

this started with Jeremy and it will not end with Jeremy. People have

:22:55.:22:59.

gone out of their way. It is never as nasty as this. Women are attacked

:23:00.:23:03.

on Twitter for having certain politics. You don't think that the

:23:04.:23:10.

intimidation of women MPs that has been cited by those women

:23:11.:23:13.

themselves, you don't think that is exaggerated? Not saying it is worse,

:23:14.:23:20.

it is something that has always existed and we should continue to

:23:21.:23:23.

say it is an acceptable, but I'm very concerned when the narrative is

:23:24.:23:26.

given that this is only happening because of Jeremy and he is

:23:27.:23:30.

instigating it when that is not necessarily true. Is that really

:23:31.:23:34.

fair? I've been a member of the Labour Party 25 years and all of my

:23:35.:23:38.

colleagues that have been involved, they say it has never been as nasty

:23:39.:23:46.

as this now. Social media exaggerates it because it is easier

:23:47.:23:50.

to attack people and you have anonymous trolls, but it feels far

:23:51.:23:53.

more on present than anything I can remember and I feel it is stoked up,

:23:54.:23:58.

the narrative of betrayal. Everyone who doesn't support Jeremy is a

:23:59.:24:02.

traitor, unprincipled, has no socialist values and no place in the

:24:03.:24:07.

Labour Party. He has encouraged it. He says he would like to reach out

:24:08.:24:11.

to Labour MPs and he would like them to come back into the Labour fold

:24:12.:24:16.

which is growing under him because of the increasing party membership.

:24:17.:24:21.

He said that again this morning. He also said he doesn't expect this

:24:22.:24:26.

loyalty from MPs if he wins again and there is a threat there that

:24:27.:24:31.

there would be increasing cause for the selection of MPs that don't

:24:32.:24:34.

support him. Should that happen? -- calls. They need to decide how to

:24:35.:24:43.

hold the representative to account. It feels like people are not willing

:24:44.:24:47.

to put differences aside to try and work together as much as possible,

:24:48.:24:51.

and constituencies should hold the elected representative to account.

:24:52.:24:57.

Jeremy voted against the Labour whip over 500 times, he called for John

:24:58.:25:02.

Smith to have a leadership challenge two months after he was elected,

:25:03.:25:08.

with 91% of the vote. Those were the things he did then. Five days after

:25:09.:25:13.

Black Wednesday and we were ahead in the polls. It seems to be one rule

:25:14.:25:20.

for Jeremy and one for everyone else. What will happen in the

:25:21.:25:29.

contest? I've just read the polls. Actually, Paul has which those

:25:30.:25:33.

figures around, it is 60-40 in favour of Jeremy Corbyn. A

:25:34.:25:37.

significant turnaround and that confirms a poll in the times on

:25:38.:25:43.

their front page, yesterday. We must assume at this stage Jeremy Corbyn

:25:44.:25:48.

starts miles ahead and they are highly effective at organising these

:25:49.:25:53.

kind of events as we know from last summer. If that proves to be the

:25:54.:25:58.

case it raises a number of questions about what the Labour MPs are trying

:25:59.:26:04.

to achieve through this. I've been doing a 3-part series on Corbyn's

:26:05.:26:08.

first year and the last goes out on Monday on Radio 4 and it is clear

:26:09.:26:14.

that there was very little coordination amongst the dissenters

:26:15.:26:20.

after the referendum. Margaret Hodge did one thing. Hilary Benn did

:26:21.:26:25.

something else. The Shadow Cabinet did something else. When John

:26:26.:26:31.

McDonnell said at a rally the other day, I won't repeat it exactly, but

:26:32.:26:35.

he said they are not very good at organising. Use the supporters, yes.

:26:36.:26:40.

That is proving to be the case so far. -- useless. It Jeremy Corbyn

:26:41.:26:47.

wants this as a long-term project he needs a different parliamentary

:26:48.:26:50.

party and the Parliamentary party needs a different leader, that much

:26:51.:26:56.

is clear. In terms of the party, the figures are astounding, in terms of

:26:57.:26:59.

new membership, the money that will be rolling into the Labour Party for

:27:00.:27:02.

the first time in many years, that is also pretty astounding. There's

:27:03.:27:07.

also the massive disconnect the mechanic a movement in the way that

:27:08.:27:11.

Jeremy Corbyn and the grassroots supporters think without the

:27:12.:27:17.

Parliamentary party? -- massive disconnect, but can it be a

:27:18.:27:25.

movement. Yes, it can be, the people who have just signed up, that is

:27:26.:27:29.

more than the Tory party membership, so it is a movement. Can it be a

:27:30.:27:35.

government? That is not the aim of Jeremy Corbyn, his aim is to capture

:27:36.:27:40.

the Labour Party with his hard left views. It is not hard left. The

:27:41.:27:55.

thing is, we want to form a government and Jeremy has been very

:27:56.:27:59.

effective in opposing the Tories and their cuts and he has been very

:28:00.:28:02.

effective on issues of social justice. Actually fund education.

:28:03.:28:07.

Many older people have the chance to go to education for free, the cost

:28:08.:28:13.

of rising is -- the cost of living is rising. It is enough. Things can

:28:14.:28:18.

be better and we want things to be better and we understand you need to

:28:19.:28:21.

be in government to do that and that is what we are doing. We will knock

:28:22.:28:25.

on the doors, we went out on our hundreds to knock on the doors for

:28:26.:28:28.

Sadiq Khan to be the Mayor of London, we need to stop distort the

:28:29.:28:35.

facts, we want Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister and we want the

:28:36.:28:38.

country to be better for everyone and not just a few people. That is

:28:39.:28:43.

the passion of view, Jeremy Corbyn can lead a Labour government into

:28:44.:28:47.

the government. He's not electable, he's not a future Prime Minister,

:28:48.:28:52.

and when I go... On the Bristol MP, there are parts of Bristol where he

:28:53.:28:56.

goes down very well, amongst the former Green voters, people who are

:28:57.:29:02.

in organisations, but if I go out to be more traditional Labour voters,

:29:03.:29:09.

it is hard to convince them that he could be a Prime Minister. He wants

:29:10.:29:15.

to speak to those people, the evidence is that Ed Miliband has

:29:16.:29:22.

lost Labour loads of support, but Jeremy said... You said it would be

:29:23.:29:28.

a disaster when he came, but he has not lost any by-elections. Can I ask

:29:29.:29:34.

one question regarding the rules, is it right that the Jeremy Corbyn

:29:35.:29:41.

supporters have offered to pay ?25 for anyone to back their leader? Is

:29:42.:29:45.

that right? It was heartbreaking when I heard that the NEC had

:29:46.:30:01.

decided... Shore. -- that is fine. The problem is, wider working class

:30:02.:30:06.

people have to pay so much -- wider working class people have to pay so

:30:07.:30:10.

much to be a member of the party? Thanks for joining us.

:30:11.:30:16.

Today marks one month since Britain voted to leave the EU -

:30:17.:30:19.

A result that surprised the pollsters, the pundits

:30:20.:30:22.

Recently on the show we had an 'in' campaigner

:30:23.:30:27.

reflecting on what went wrong, and today we're going to hear

:30:28.:30:30.

from a central figure in the Leave campaign

:30:31.:30:32.

Here's Vote Leave's chief executive, Matthew Elliott, with his account

:30:33.:30:35.

So, Big Ben has struck 10.00pm, and we can now start

:30:36.:30:47.

trying to discover which side thinks it's carried the day.

:30:48.:30:50.

At 10.00pm on 23rd June, the consensus was that Vote

:30:51.:30:52.

A contact of mine at Number 10 texted me to say,

:30:53.:30:57.

And even Nigel Farage was predicting a Remain victory.

:30:58.:31:01.

But after our final conference call with Boris Johnson, Michael Gove,

:31:02.:31:03.

and Dominic Cummings, our campaign director,

:31:04.:31:05.

Gisela Stuart and I were still upbeat.

:31:06.:31:09.

People were talking that we'd lost, the evidence wasn't there.

:31:10.:31:21.

And, of course, as the evening went by, it became clearer and clearer

:31:22.:31:24.

that we were winning but I did not accept it until David Dimbleby said,

:31:25.:31:27.

"We can now officially declare that Vote Leave has won."

:31:28.:31:30.

I kept saying, "We need two speeches."

:31:31.:31:43.

The UK has voted to leave the European Union.

:31:44.:31:49.

I kept saying, "We need two speeches."

:31:50.:31:51.

But this was not really reciprocated.

:31:52.:31:53.

The mood was - we only need a speech to concede defeat gracefully,

:31:54.:31:56.

but you and I didn't quite see it that way.

:31:57.:31:58.

Getting to that point was a long road.

:31:59.:32:03.

Five years ago I ran the "No to AV" referendum campaign.

:32:04.:32:07.

I took on this challenge, the test run for a possible EU referendum.

:32:08.:32:10.

We manageded to turn public opinion from being 2-1 in favour

:32:11.:32:12.

of electoral reform, to being 2-1 against.

:32:13.:32:16.

Alongside me at No to AV was Peter Crudder.

:32:17.:32:18.

When I joined No to AV it was a bit political.

:32:19.:32:27.

It needed that injection of business knowledge.

:32:28.:32:29.

I think the same applied to Vote Leave.

:32:30.:32:31.

What I brought was this business acumen.

:32:32.:32:36.

Having the funding and the right campaign team in place

:32:37.:32:38.

for Vote Leave was essential but we had three big

:32:39.:32:40.

We were taking on the establishment, we were fighting Ukip.

:32:41.:32:52.

And we had to overcome the natural bias in a referendum

:32:53.:32:54.

To take on the establishment, we needed to recruit big

:32:55.:33:00.

We needed to show swing voters that serious people from politics,

:33:01.:33:04.

business and other walks of life, backed voting Leave.

:33:05.:33:12.

If you look back to 1975, one of the reasons why the Leave

:33:13.:33:16.

campaign then was so unsuccessful was because leading political

:33:17.:33:18.

figures were seen as very much outliers, in some cases extremists.

:33:19.:33:25.

So to demonstrate there were senior, centrist, moderate figures

:33:26.:33:28.

campaigning to leave the European Union, I hope

:33:29.:33:30.

made a real contribution to the result of the referendum.

:33:31.:33:34.

But at the same time as taking on the establishment,

:33:35.:33:37.

we were also fighting Ukip and Nigel Farage.

:33:38.:33:43.

We knew that swing voters didn't want to feel they were voting

:33:44.:33:46.

Resisting the overtures from Ukip, to create a properly

:33:47.:33:50.

cross-party campaign, was probably the toughest

:33:51.:33:52.

aspect of the referendum for the campaign team.

:33:53.:34:15.

But at one point, the group closest to Ukip - Leave.EU -

:34:16.:34:17.

sent out a statement to MPs and the media, saying that

:34:18.:34:20.

Dominic Cummings and I couldn't run a sweet shop and Nigel Farage

:34:21.:34:23.

appeared on the Daily Politics saying both of us should be sacked.

:34:24.:34:26.

This was a massively stressful period and the pressure

:34:27.:34:28.

A week before the referendum, we were riding high.

:34:29.:34:34.

Vote Leave had punctured a hole in project fear by organising 60 MPs

:34:35.:34:38.

to say they would vote against George Osborne's Brexit

:34:39.:34:40.

budget and we had the wind in our sails but then Nigel Farage

:34:41.:34:43.

unveiled the most controversial poster of the referendum.

:34:44.:34:45.

The Breaking Point image was damaging enough

:34:46.:34:47.

but in the context of Jo Cox's murder, it threatened

:34:48.:34:49.

Thankfully it was clear to voters that Ukip was not

:34:50.:34:53.

The final challenge we faced was to overcome the natural

:34:54.:34:56.

status quo bias of any referendum campaign.

:34:57.:35:02.

As was the case with the Alternative Vote,

:35:03.:35:04.

or Scottish independence, the change side often loses

:35:05.:35:08.

because people's natural caution kicks in.

:35:09.:35:10.

We had to show how there was no status quo.

:35:11.:35:13.

We highlighted the risk of Remain and we showed how Leave

:35:14.:35:16.

Getting to what people feel, rather than what they say,

:35:17.:35:26.

is where the future of research is and this is what we did

:35:27.:35:29.

and the one key thing that emerged on this was the strength

:35:30.:35:31.

of emotional connectivity with that "take control" argument.

:35:32.:35:36.

So that single message was actually a decision of genius, in many ways,

:35:37.:35:40.

because it was exactly what people could understand.

:35:41.:35:43.

It was something that people just got.

:35:44.:35:47.

It cut through straightaway to so many people.

:35:48.:35:52.

At Vote Leave we were challenged for telling voters that the UK

:35:53.:35:56.

is billed ?350 million each week for our membership of the EU.

:35:57.:36:03.

It is a legitimate figure, it is entirely right.

:36:04.:36:06.

We emblazoned this figure on our bus and on our literature and our

:36:07.:36:09.

spokespeople repeated it again and again.

:36:10.:36:14.

In direct comparison to the arguments for Remain,

:36:15.:36:28.

around the perceived impact on the economy in a head-to-head

:36:29.:36:31.

question, if you like, the ?350 million question won every

:36:32.:36:33.

At heart, I'm a policy wonk before I'm a referendum campaigner.

:36:34.:36:41.

At Vote Leave we probably achieved the biggest policy change, ever,

:36:42.:36:47.

A month on, the repercussions from Vote leave victories have

:36:48.:36:52.

The economic scares that people predicted haven't materialised.

:36:53.:36:58.

British politics has been turned upside down.

:36:59.:37:00.

And even the European Union is showing signs of reform.

:37:01.:37:06.

As Liam Fox wrote on Vote Leave's white board on referendum night,

:37:07.:37:09.

Is it true there was only one speech written for night? I was with Gisela

:37:10.:37:28.

Stuart had seemed astounded by the are you, delighted but astounded and

:37:29.:37:32.

the only speech that had been written was the one to condition

:37:33.:37:37.

seed defeat. I think the most difficult speech to make was to

:37:38.:37:43.

concede defeat. A victory speech was easier. Was there only one? There

:37:44.:37:50.

was one but about midnight she started skripling away on her

:37:51.:37:54.

victory acceptance speech. You say you were always confident but not

:37:55.:37:58.

everyone in Vote Leave was so sure? From February, once we saw the deal

:37:59.:38:03.

and terrain, we felt sure if it got to the final stage of the

:38:04.:38:06.

referendum, it was still 50-50, still in contention, then we could

:38:07.:38:11.

get across the line and win. We knew we had - our voters were more

:38:12.:38:15.

enthusiastic and we felt our ground game was better. On the ground game.

:38:16.:38:20.

Let's talk about a that ?350 #34i8 yob fichlingt you say you make no

:38:21.:38:23.

aapproximately joy for t but you promised something you couldn't

:38:24.:38:26.

deliver and you knew you couldn't deliver ?350 million being spent on

:38:27.:38:30.

the NHS. So you lied, effectively. I disagree. A referendum campaign is

:38:31.:38:34.

very different to an election, in the sense that... You don't have to

:38:35.:38:38.

at the time truth... We are a campaign team, we are campaigning

:38:39.:38:42.

for a certain result and we hoped that the Government would use that

:38:43.:38:46.

money for the NHS. You didn't say, that you said "Lets avenue give our

:38:47.:38:52.

NHS the ?350 million the EU takes every week." That was disputed that

:38:53.:38:58.

?3 #r50 million was sent to the EU, in fact it was disproved but then to

:38:59.:39:02.

promise that amount, which people distanced themselves from

:39:03.:39:04.

immediately afterwards s dishonest. The key point was, it could have

:39:05.:39:08.

been delivered by the Government, we would have liked it could have been

:39:09.:39:12.

delivered by the Government but Vote leave didn't become the Government

:39:13.:39:14.

afterwards. What about the in-fighting? You talked about that

:39:15.:39:18.

and said it was difficult to deal with. Was it something that really

:39:19.:39:22.

undermined the Vote Leave campaign? The key point was, we had the vision

:39:23.:39:28.

of a cross-party business-led campaign involving senior people

:39:29.:39:31.

from business, politics, the military other walks of life. It was

:39:32.:39:35.

the best way of conadvicing swing voters it was a moderate, sensible,

:39:36.:39:40.

mainstream thing to do, to vote Leave. It was why it was important

:39:41.:39:43.

that we weren't dominated by Ukip and had a separate independent

:39:44.:39:47.

campaign. You were on the Leave side, Fraser, were you surprised?

:39:48.:39:51.

Yes, really surprised. I don't know any journalist o actually who

:39:52.:39:56.

predicted that Leave would win. The polls repeatedly told us otherwise,

:39:57.:40:00.

we knew not to trust them from last time around but you would think they

:40:01.:40:04.

would have their house in order. The momentum seemed to be going with the

:40:05.:40:08.

Government's side. Pretty much every single member of the establishment,

:40:09.:40:12.

on behalf of the status quoe, the Government, blink and all economists

:40:13.:40:17.

and you had a rag tag bag of insurgents on the other side. So, I

:40:18.:40:22.

didn't know anybody who predicted a Brexit strike but one arrived in

:40:23.:40:25.

what was certainly the most extraordinary political victory in

:40:26.:40:28.

our living memory. It feels like a lifetime now since the vote, or it

:40:29.:40:33.

does to us anyway. Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, key personalities in

:40:34.:40:36.

that Leave campaign. They won the war, if you like, but they haven't

:40:37.:40:41.

been anywhere in the piece? Well, Boris is Foreign Secretary. But one

:40:42.:40:49.

of the extraordinary things about politics is what follow a tumultuous

:40:50.:40:54.

event, like you have just brilliantly described, is never

:40:55.:40:58.

logical. So you have a Remain Prime Minister in place, albeit one that

:40:59.:41:02.

kept a very low-profile during the referendum. Michael Gove, nowhere to

:41:03.:41:05.

be seen. If you like, Boris Johnson, it was a surprise even to him, I

:41:06.:41:10.

think in the end. What, becoming Foreign Secretary? He had two

:41:11.:41:15.

surprises, Michael Gove suddenly standing, an extraordinary

:41:16.:41:17.

Shakespearean drama and then returning when many people were

:41:18.:41:21.

saying, well he is going back to writing books. That was a major

:41:22.:41:25.

weakness, I think in the campaign, that was there no follow-through.

:41:26.:41:29.

The lack of organisation was jaw-dropping, staggering and I

:41:30.:41:33.

think, indefensible. On that, looking ahead, what about a group

:41:34.:41:37.

being formed to hold the Brexit department to account? To watch for

:41:38.:41:43.

any, as you would no doubt see t backsliding? I think there is a need

:41:44.:41:48.

for a group to work with the Government. You have groups like the

:41:49.:41:53.

Centre for Social Justice who work closely with Iain Duncan Smith or

:41:54.:41:56.

the networks that worked with Michael Gove when he was at the

:41:57.:42:00.

Department for Education so there might be a need for a group to

:42:01.:42:04.

expand on the idea. Do you think there should be one? I think so.

:42:05.:42:09.

Would you be part of that? We will have to wait and see. This is what

:42:10.:42:13.

is being talked about now, is holding Government it account.

:42:14.:42:15.

Absolutely, the important thing to my mind, state of the EU immigrants,

:42:16.:42:18.

throughout the campaign, everybody said there should be no question

:42:19.:42:26.

that EU immigrants should stay here, no question of repatriation,

:42:27.:42:29.

everyone said that, and Theresa May has put the skids under three

:42:30.:42:34.

million nationals living in Britain. They are being sent letters up in

:42:35.:42:39.

Scotland saying, you are OK for now. The lack of precision in the

:42:40.:42:44.

immediate aftermath. I don't blame the Brexiteers, they had to win a

:42:45.:42:49.

campaign and they won T I don't blame what you did in the NHS. All

:42:50.:42:53.

is fair in a xavenlt I blame David Cameron for offering this in the

:42:54.:42:57.

first place, as a binary referendum, on in or out, where no-ones with a

:42:58.:43:02.

under any pressure to explain what out would mean in any great deat the

:43:03.:43:06.

same time. You had a campaign to win, but that's a different

:43:07.:43:09.

objective, which you did brilliantly and that is the problem with

:43:10.:43:12.

referendums. I understand why he felt he had to call t but they are

:43:13.:43:18.

dangerous devices because you then, once it is called, you just focus on

:43:19.:43:23.

how you win it. And the threshold... And now face the consequences and

:43:24.:43:27.

no-one is entirely sure what it is going to mean. Did you enjoy it? I

:43:28.:43:33.

loved T However difficult it was. Would you have said that if you had

:43:34.:43:39.

lost? Of it a tough year, it was a really tough year, but it feels a

:43:40.:43:43.

great sense of achievement. Yes, because you won. I think it would

:43:44.:43:47.

have been much tougher if we had lost. Well, you didn't so thank you

:43:48.:43:50.

very much. Now, let's turn to the situation, in

:43:51.:43:52.

Turkey. Following last Friday's failed army

:43:53.:43:57.

coup, President Erdogan has declared a state of emergency in the country

:43:58.:44:00.

for three months, giving him More than 50,000 state employees

:44:01.:44:03.

have been rounded up, sacked or suspended in recent days,

:44:04.:44:06.

as the government says it is attempting to root out

:44:07.:44:08.

the "virus" behind the coup. Well let's speak now

:44:09.:44:12.

to our correspondent Nick, have there been any further

:44:13.:44:23.

developments? Well, the people are really trying to digest, now, the

:44:24.:44:27.

news of this state of emergency. The President announced it late last

:44:28.:44:31.

night, just before midnight. We know it'll last for three months. Under

:44:32.:44:35.

the constitution it could have lasted significance months and some

:44:36.:44:38.

of his critics are clutching at straws really, saying perhaps this

:44:39.:44:42.

is not as bad as it could have been. Anyway, Turkey, since the coup, only

:44:43.:44:46.

five or six days ago, has been living under a kind of de facto

:44:47.:44:50.

state of emergency anyway, so some people, even critics of the

:44:51.:44:53.

government are saying - better to know where we stand than to be in

:44:54.:44:59.

this sort of legal quagmire. People, however, are also concerned, what

:45:00.:45:02.

will happen now? The huge numbers you referred to, more than 50,000

:45:03.:45:06.

people suspended from their jobs. Teachers called back from their

:45:07.:45:10.

summer holidays to be told they are now under investigation. More than

:45:11.:45:15.

6,000 arrests in the army, 100 top generals, more than one in four of

:45:16.:45:20.

the top brass of the military here all under arrest. So a lot of

:45:21.:45:23.

concern in society. A lot of worry but also a sense that this Turkey

:45:24.:45:31.

just survived a coup. A military attacks on Parliament and police

:45:32.:45:35.

headquarters, so there is also some understanding that clear, firm

:45:36.:45:37.

measures are needed at a time like this. Thank you very much.

:45:38.:45:41.

We're joined now by the Liberal Democrat peer Meral Hussein -

:45:42.:45:43.

she sits on the all-party parliamentary group for Turkey.

:45:44.:45:46.

It sounds devastating in terms of the scale of the state of emergency.

:45:47.:45:52.

The state of emergency was five days late. As the president said last

:45:53.:45:58.

night, Francis had a state of emergency since last November. --

:45:59.:46:04.

France has had. People are still reeling from the repercussions of

:46:05.:46:08.

the attempted coup and people in Turkey have memories of the last

:46:09.:46:17.

four attempted coups and so they feel very much in favour of the

:46:18.:46:22.

president, and the majority, that includes Kurds and secular wrists.

:46:23.:46:33.

Looking at it very simply, it is the Muslims are more in favour of what

:46:34.:46:36.

the President is saying, it has been said. People are coming together to

:46:37.:46:41.

give support to the button which is unprecedented. Amnesty International

:46:42.:46:47.

says there's a crackdown of exceptional proportions, do you

:46:48.:46:51.

think they are wrong? It is exceptional, but we don't know... Is

:46:52.:47:01.

it justified? We don't know. The people feel there is a conspiracy,

:47:02.:47:06.

people in all sections of public life embedded who are sympathisers

:47:07.:47:14.

who have had a hand in this coup, and the president has said he's

:47:15.:47:18.

going to this out. The majority of people think this is a good thing

:47:19.:47:22.

but it seems he is going way too far and we don't know what is going to

:47:23.:47:29.

come out the other end, what kind of society is going to emerge. The

:47:30.:47:34.

question is, has he always wanted to do this? We know from following his

:47:35.:47:41.

government in Turkey, there have already been moves to clamp down on

:47:42.:47:45.

certain freedoms in the press, for example. He's now doing what he

:47:46.:47:52.

wants. He is, it is true that he was clamping down on freedom of the

:47:53.:47:56.

media and journalists, but there was a strong indication that he was

:47:57.:48:00.

moving against certain sections of the military and the other

:48:01.:48:06.

establishment before the coup and people in Turkey I've spoken to have

:48:07.:48:11.

said to me this coup was pre-empting what they thought he might have

:48:12.:48:16.

done. Is this the beginning of the end of democratic rule in Turkey? It

:48:17.:48:22.

looks as if he is taking this opportunity to clamp-down on away

:48:23.:48:28.

which is staggering in scale -- a way. He's really going for the

:48:29.:48:36.

academic and universities, teachers, everybody. An extraordinary

:48:37.:48:43.

reaction. You are better placed to make judgments on internal targets

:48:44.:48:47.

politics, but it seems the assessment early on was it was a

:48:48.:48:52.

clumsy ill judged coup but it has been treated as if it was the most

:48:53.:48:55.

extraordinary threat to this government. Clearly by implication,

:48:56.:49:03.

people were involved in every walk of Turkish society, if he is going

:49:04.:49:08.

to justify this level of clamp-down, but I think he's using it as a

:49:09.:49:13.

excuse to seize control of every element of Turkish society. These

:49:14.:49:19.

people involved in the coup, beyond the military, what should the EU do

:49:20.:49:26.

question up we are doing this deal which has been successful in terms

:49:27.:49:28.

of stemming the flow of migrants through grace -- what should the EU

:49:29.:49:36.

do? We have given them billions in aid, to Turkey. The EU was pretty

:49:37.:49:43.

useless before and it will be so now. Right now Germany, Italy, they

:49:44.:49:52.

are terrified, so they are in a weak position if Erdogan loses, I cannot

:49:53.:49:59.

see any punishment working at the moment. That is the problem with the

:50:00.:50:04.

EU, it is great as a free-trade bloc, but as a political entity,

:50:05.:50:08.

useless. What do you think is going to happen? I think it will go

:50:09.:50:15.

further and I agree with Steve, he's Bubba be taking this as an

:50:16.:50:21.

opportunity to get firmer control -- he's probably taking this as an

:50:22.:50:26.

opportunity. The EU have lost any influence they have had, and the

:50:27.:50:33.

fact the United Kingdom, after what happened in the Brexit campaign, in

:50:34.:50:36.

which Turkey was the fight, because of the poster and all the rest of it

:50:37.:50:45.

-- in which Turkey was vilified. I was talking to friends last night,

:50:46.:50:49.

they say the majority of the Turkish public and they think the UK and the

:50:50.:50:53.

United States are involved in a conspiracy to shut down their

:50:54.:50:56.

democracy, they really believe this. They were slow to condemn the coup

:50:57.:51:01.

and they don't seem to be taking it as serious way in terms of the

:51:02.:51:05.

United States wanting a next edition, so there are many aspects

:51:06.:51:11.

to this, layer upon layer. -- wanting an extradition. Thanks for

:51:12.:51:13.

joining us. With Parliament rising MPs are

:51:14.:51:16.

leaving Westminster until September. They'll be able to concentrate

:51:17.:51:18.

on work in their constituencies, fight the odd leadership battle,

:51:19.:51:20.

and in some cases even manage So what will they be reading

:51:21.:51:23.

if they do make it as a far Come aboard London's floating book

:51:24.:51:27.

shop for a selection from the MPs' Want to know more

:51:28.:51:38.

about the Labour leader? How about Comrade Corbyn by former

:51:39.:51:43.

lobby journalist Rosa Prince. Everyone is desperate for insight

:51:44.:51:46.

into the new Prime Minister. Our Joe is a biography of the former

:51:47.:51:48.

Conservative mayor of Birmingham in the 19th century,

:51:49.:51:59.

Joseph Chamberlain. Written by Theresa May's chief

:52:00.:52:01.

of staff Nick Timothy. We've recently increased our stock

:52:02.:52:04.

of ex-prime ministers by one and here's a trio of prime

:52:05.:52:08.

ministerial biographies. First of all this one of Tony Blair

:52:09.:52:11.

by the investigative journalist Tom Bower,

:52:12.:52:13.

called Broken Vows. And then there is this book

:52:14.:52:16.

about Harold Wilson called What a nice way to celebrate 100

:52:17.:52:21.

years since he was born. And finally this book about Disraeli

:52:22.:52:27.

called The Novel Politician. If you want the insider account

:52:28.:52:30.

of the last government, how about Coalition by the former

:52:31.:52:52.

Liberal Democrat If you want to get really insidery,

:52:53.:52:54.

how about the Black Door? It is all about how prime ministers

:52:55.:53:01.

have interacted with 100 years since the Easter

:53:02.:53:03.

uprising in Ireland. If you want to know about that,

:53:04.:53:22.

Fearghal McGarry has drawn on 1700 If you want to visit the battlefield

:53:23.:53:25.

of the Somme, Major and Mrs Holt have written

:53:26.:53:43.

the definitive guide of where to go. If you fancy something

:53:44.:53:45.

historical but a bit lighter, All about the epic task of keeping

:53:46.:53:47.

Britain fed in the Second World War. I love visiting friends

:53:48.:53:52.

in their posh mansions, and now you can read about it

:53:53.:53:54.

in a book called The Long weekend: Life in the English Country

:53:55.:53:57.

House Between The Wars. And if you can't bear the idea

:53:58.:53:59.

of being away from Westminster, don't worry, you could always

:54:00.:54:02.

read Mr Barry's War, all about rebuilding parliament

:54:03.:54:05.

after it burnt down in 1834, or my colleague Ben Wright's book

:54:06.:54:11.

about politics and alcohol. And Keith Simpson joins

:54:12.:54:14.

us now to tell us more He's moved a branch of Waterstones

:54:15.:54:35.

into the studio, have you read all of them? No, but a fair number. What

:54:36.:54:45.

recommendations? I would start, not necessarily on the beach, but Nick

:54:46.:54:54.

Timothy's Our Joe, Joseph Chamberlain's Conservative legacy,

:54:55.:54:56.

Nick Timothy wrote this for the Conservative history group and he is

:54:57.:54:59.

now the joint Chief of staff with Theresa May. You can see parts of

:55:00.:55:06.

this went into her speech at Birmingham and then her speech

:55:07.:55:09.

outside number ten. You will see a template for government under

:55:10.:55:16.

Theresa May? I think you will. It is about what Joseph chamber and was

:55:17.:55:22.

doing in Birmingham, to alleviate the lot of the people at the bottom

:55:23.:55:27.

of the social ladder -- Joseph Chamberlain was doing in Birmingham.

:55:28.:55:33.

You can see this has influenced her. It is also short, it would be a good

:55:34.:55:37.

one to start with. There are some pictures. At the lighter end, a

:55:38.:55:45.

wonderful book called the long weekend, life in the end this

:55:46.:55:55.

country house between the wars and he combines the stories of amazingly

:55:56.:55:58.

eccentric people. One of these country houses, they needed to put

:55:59.:56:04.

wiring and the owner refused to have the floor pulled up, and they got

:56:05.:56:07.

round it by putting a dead rabbit at one end and a ferret and they tied

:56:08.:56:14.

to the ferret a string and the wire, and I'm not making that up. I

:56:15.:56:18.

imagine that was very smelly. Looking at the list, as I did. It is

:56:19.:56:26.

quite heavy. Even by your standards, quite a heavy list of books in terms

:56:27.:56:32.

of content. It is serious, part and parcel of the time we are living in,

:56:33.:56:39.

we are in a serious mood and Theresa May is a very serious politician and

:56:40.:56:43.

Jeremy Corbyn is, as well. If someone else would like to produce

:56:44.:56:47.

another list. The Lady Whipp said she was going to be choose a list of

:56:48.:56:53.

chick lit but she has not got round to it. No one is going to compete

:56:54.:56:59.

against you. What Angel fancy? The Nick Timothy Burke. -- what takes

:57:00.:57:13.

your fancy? There are very few speeches from sick terry macro, but

:57:14.:57:15.

we know Nick Timothy is probably more influential than any adviser in

:57:16.:57:21.

the direction of government because she trusts so few people -- there

:57:22.:57:24.

are very few speeches from Theresa May. What about for you Steve? The

:57:25.:57:34.

Joe Chamberlain one and maybe the Harold Wilson won, because Harold

:57:35.:57:40.

Wilson won a referendum on Europe in 1975 and he knew how to win. Maybe

:57:41.:57:44.

you should have read that before the referendum. Maybe David Cameron

:57:45.:57:49.

should. He knew how to win elections and keep his party at gully -- keep

:57:50.:58:01.

his party united, skills which Theresa May and whoever leads Labour

:58:02.:58:11.

will require. Any laughs? Yes, this one. I have stolen a review copy

:58:12.:58:17.

from the Spectator. If you are a Scottish right-winger like me, this

:58:18.:58:21.

is wonderful. That might be a niche market. There are a few others. All

:58:22.:58:29.

reading this on the beach in the summer. It was funny comedy, sage

:58:30.:58:37.

and with Ken Clarke. -- it was funny, the conversation with Ken

:58:38.:58:42.

Clarke. I have put some books on the list, including Ken Clarke's memoirs

:58:43.:58:48.

which is coming out in time for the party conference, and Denis

:58:49.:58:54.

Healey's, he has a broad hinterland, you have him coming out, Ed Balls's

:58:55.:58:59.

memoir and a view of politics, just in time for the Labour Party. The

:59:00.:59:04.

title of his book? Putting the boot in. LAUGHTER

:59:05.:59:11.

Actually, I can't remember. If I was a Labour member, there is a

:59:12.:59:17.

biography of Clement Attlee coming out in time for the Labour Party

:59:18.:59:18.

conference. There's just time before we go

:59:19.:59:23.

to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was what did Nick Clegg

:59:24.:59:27.

spend two says and nearly ?8,000 doing to show that he could be fun

:59:28.:59:30.

during the last election campaign? A) Go to a theme park

:59:31.:59:33.

in a baseball cap C) Film his own version

:59:34.:59:36.

of a pop video Or D) Erect a 'Cleggstone'

:59:37.:59:39.

in his back garden. It has got to be the pop video. It

:59:40.:59:47.

is. But we have not seen it, of course.

:59:48.:59:48.

That's all for today, and that's all from the Daily

:59:49.:59:51.

We'll be back when Parliament returns on Monday 5th September -

:59:52.:59:55.

Jo Coburn is joined by the editor of the Spectator Magazine, Fraser Nelson, and political commentator Steve Richards. They look at the prospects for Theresa May's government with Conservative MP Mark Field and discuss the Labour leadership contest with Labour MP Kerry McCarthy.

Matthew Elliott from Vote Leave reveals why he thinks his campaign was a success, and Liberal Democrat peer Baroness Hussein-Ece gives her thoughts on the situation in Turkey.

Conservative MP Keith Simpson recommends what books MPs should be taking with them on their summer holidays.


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