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Afternoon folks and welcome to this Daily Politics Conference Special. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
In 45 minutes, Tim Farron will deliver his big conference speech. | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
He'll hope to raise Lib Dem morale at the end of their long | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
We'll bring you that live and uninterrupted. | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
While Tim Farron's on his feet in Brighton, Theresa May will be | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
How will her message of an outward-looking post-Brexit | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
And should the Lib Dems do electoral pacts with other like-minded | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
We asked conference-goers to play ball. | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
Yes, it's a Daily Politics special to bring you live coverage | :01:16. | :01:31. | |
of the conference speech of the Liberal Democrat | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
He may only have eight MPs to show for the 2.4 million people who voted | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
But they're meeting for their annual conference not in a phone box - | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
as some of the crueller commentators have suggested - | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
but in Brighton, And Mr Farron, who's said he'd like to imitate | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
the Canadian Liberal leader and president Justin Trudeau, | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
is going to tell his party that he too can help the party | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
We're sure he didn't want any other comparisons to be drawn | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
with the international heartthrob Mr Trudeau. | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
And joining us to listen to the speech, one Lib Dem who knows | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
a bit about the party both in and out of power, | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Polly Mackenzie - she worked for Nick Clegg in Downing Street | :02:20. | :02:22. | |
There's been a lot of talk about Liberal Democrats about recent | :02:23. | :02:35. | |
by-election wins. That smacks of a throwback to the past when that was | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
the only evidence the Lib Dems had of any popularity with voters? There | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
haven't been many general elections in the past year for them to measure | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
themselves against or Parliamentary contests, so in a way it's not | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
surprising the only thing that's happening in electoral politics is | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
things like membership numbers and local council by-elections. They are | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
seizing those opportunities. You are right it's not sufficient as a path | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
back to power but it's a start. Smacks of desperation? It's the only | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
thing going, better to do something than nothing. General election | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
aside, there were the London Mayoral elections, they pitted those as | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
something they would do well in and didn't. They came fourth and fifth. | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
Londoners are particularly challenging for Liberal Democrats | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
and it's never... Very pro-European? Exactly, it's because all the | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
parties adopt a centre Liberal narrative, the Conservatives are | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
liberal, the Labour Party is in London and that means there isn't | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
space for the Liberal Democrats, it's across the country where the | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
Liberal voice might have more of an opportunity. Apparently former MPs | :03:36. | :03:45. | |
like Vince Cable and others are on snap election alert. Is that wise? | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
It's possible there is going to be an election. Do you believe that? I | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
think that it's possible. It doesn't look particularly likely to me but | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
again better to be prepared and ready to campaign than in a mess | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
like the Labour Party is. So is that the sort of talk amongst Lib Dems | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
and should it be in your mind that they are poised to spring into | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
action and campaign in their former seats that they lost in the general | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
election on an issue, for instance, like a second referendum on the deal | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
for Brexit? I think Tim's started to set out a clear message which he | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
would put forward if there was a general election soon. If Theresa | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
May did decide to call an election, who knows what it would be about. | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
The noise is about grammar schools but I can't imagine her calling an | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
election on that. So actually focussing on the big issue of the | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
day which is Brexit and setting our our position on it makes sense to | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
me. Having been in power in coalition, how much has that damaged | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
on its own the Liberal Democrat brand for any chance of them | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
regaining some of the seats they lost? Well, I mean, it's pretty | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
obvious isn't it, they are down to eight seats and we paid a huge price | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
for the five years in power where we got to change the country in a whole | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
variety of ways in a way we spent 70 years of political capital on that | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
five years in power, I hope it doesn't take 70 years to get back | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
but it would be fool hardy to pretend the impact hasn't been | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
enormous. We have given away none of the above vote and it seems to be | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
lodged firmly with Ukip at the moment and that's heartbreaking for | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
me to see that kind of generic anyone but Labour or Conservatives | :05:25. | :05:28. | |
vote lodged with a party that I basically find abhorrent. What is | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
the strongest message for the Liberal Democrats now? The message | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
that Tim is really pushing is that he is the leader who can unite | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
parties around the centre-left and be the decent opposition to the | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
Conservatives. There isn't a decent position at the moment and actually | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
fining, as Theresa May develops as the Prime Minister, and stumbles, | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
there does need to be a voice. How can there be that position with the | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
MPs? Well, it's challenging. It would be easier... British | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
understatement isn't it? Jeremy Corbyn isn't doing a very good job | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
so there is a vacancy there for decent strong voices. It comes down | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
to ideas. A remarkable result at the next election say in 2020, a | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
remarkable result would be 20 Lib Dem seats from eight. I think | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
inlikely but remarkable if it happened? How could you be in | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
opposition with even 20 seats. It's nonsense isn't it? The question is, | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
can you start to tell a story of a different country and a future | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
narrative and a future approach to governing the country. But you are | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
right, like I said, it could be 70 years for the Liberal Democrats to | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
build up. Probably a generation isn't it? But actually, every | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
general election you double or triple your remit takes, you can see | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
a path back to 50-60 MPs as we were before. Things change in politics. | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
Do you think the very policies the Liberal Democrats as they see | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
themselves as the centre party of the political spectrum, that they'll | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
be rejected, they have been rejected in Brexit, some of the | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
internationalist views have been rejected by the electorate as they | :07:07. | :07:09. | |
have looked to Ukip or perhaps Jeremy Corbyn and the Conservatives, | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
that that space in the middle, although it's a gaping hole, is not | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
one that interests voters? Except remember the Brexit vote was 48-52. | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
There are a lot that share the views of the Liberal Democrats, 40% above | :07:25. | :07:27. | |
where the Lib Demes are doing in the polls at the moment so there is a | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
big market out there. You have to remember that Tim's objective at the | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
moment is to rebuild, as Andrew said, maybe to 20 or 30 seats or to | :07:34. | :07:39. | |
go beyond that. He's not trying to be a majority Government with 52% of | :07:40. | :07:48. | |
the vote. I don't understand, his policy that's most distinct at the | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
moment, is to have another referendum, to have a second | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
referendum on Europe once the Brexit deal is done. But his top target | :07:56. | :08:04. | |
seats are North Devon, St Ives, North Cornwall, Yeovil. Do you want | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
me to tell you the majorities of Brexit in these constituencies? Go | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
on then? Huge. 60-40 in some cases. How does that work? Again it's | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
nonsense. How can you take that position and target seats which are | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
overwhelmingly Euro-sceptic? It's a question of bringing together the | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
strong local campaigning, the increasing disenfranchisement people | :08:27. | :08:28. | |
will have with the Government of the day, and also I think what we'll see | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
in Tim's speech is him starting to build other policies to come around | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
that, to talking about education and health. We have seen announcements | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
there. To build a clearer narrative about an opposition. Can we agree | :08:40. | :08:45. | |
that calling for another referendum won't help? OK. | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
On that point, we agree. We'll move on. | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
I think it's fair to say that the number of journalists | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
at the seaside with the Lib Dems is smaller than it has | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
But after an exhaustive search, we've found two brave souls who have | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
travelled to Brighton to listen to Mr Farron - | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
it's Matt Chorley from the Times and Kate McCann from the Telegraph. | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
Set the scene for us, Matt Chorley, what is it like down there? | :09:11. | :09:17. | |
A bit drizzly. Some came down hoping for a bit of sunshine. It's not a | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
weather forecast I'm looking for, it's a political forecast? Yeah... I | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
mean, as ever with the Lib Dems, they are relentlessly optimistic | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
about the future, it's all going to be all right in tend, as it has | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
been, the time through the coalition, they said it was going to | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
be all right in the end. We know what happened. They are still | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
optimistic in politics, they think it's going to be all right. Kate, | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
how do you take it? Certainly quieter than it has been in previous | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
years and I think Tim Farron has a challenge with his speech this | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
morning to get people revved up for the year ahead. There should be a | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
few interesting things he's going to say about National Health Service | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
and the schools. He's probably going to make an appeal to Labour voters. | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
So that could be worth watching out for. Do you think anybody is | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
listening? That's the big problem isn't it. 8% | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
of the polls now, theynded 2010 at 8% after all the tuition fees stuff, | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
left Government at 8% and are still there. It seems no matter what they | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
do, change of leader, being out of Government, relentlily pro-European, | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
it doesn't make any difference. Nobody else seems to be listening. | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
They are still 8% and Tim Farron is working harder in trying to change | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
that with increasingly bold language, taking on issues that | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
maybe other political parties wouldn't. Whether that is putting up | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
taxes, legalising cannabis or appealing to the Labour moderates, | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
if you like, but the big problem is, we are here, but it's whether anyone | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
else is. Isn't the problem that they face | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
Kate, that you have got, the Labour moving further to the left, lots of | :10:56. | :11:04. | |
unhappy centrist Labour MPs and, on the Conservative side centrist Tory | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
MPs unhappy about the Brexit vote, they wanted to stay in. Mr Farron is | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
presenting himself as a centries or moderate centre left, strongly | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
pro-EU, but nobody wants to hug him, nobody's hugged him? Well, I mean, | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
maybe it's still early days and Tim Farron is hoping he can make an | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
impression in the coming months when things become a bit more stark | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
perhaps. You don't sound very convinced by that? Well, I hate to | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
make predictions given what's happened recently. I wouldn't want | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
to put my money on any particular outcome but what I will say is if | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is elected on Saturday, the choice for some Labour | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
voters will become very stark very quickly and I think Tim Farron is | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
hoping that if he continues to make a clear message and appeal to the | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
voters that he is the way to go, that could shift opinions and | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
perhaps he might have time to do that if Theresa May is determined | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
not to call an election until 2020. But Matt Chorley, is there any | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
evidence, any indication that disillusioned centrists on either of | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
the two main parties are thinking of hugging Tim Farron? No. Bluntly. The | :12:11. | :12:18. | |
problem is you are absolutely right. There is this huge area in the | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
political sector which has opened up for something to try and appeal to | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
both voters and MPs in that area. The problem is the Lib Dems aren't | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
being seen as the vehicle on that. There's only 8 of them in the House | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
of Commons so things need to be pretty bad for disaffected Labour MP | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
and they are bad for a lot of Labour MPs on the benches. To give up the | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
position of being in the region of 200 or something, to move across | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
that dead corner in the House of Commons where there's only 8, you | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
have to be fed up to do that. That is the problem, if there were 3020 | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
or 30 left, there might be more appeal there. As a vehicle for that, | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
that is the big problem -- 20 or 30. Kate, there is a poll in the London | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
Evening Standard today, Jo will be talking more about that later, but | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
it shows that the party itself is six or seven points in the polls now | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
single figures still. And it also shows Mr Farron's own personal | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
ratings have flatlined since he became leader, that he has made no | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
cut through, no impact, as of yet on the British public? That's true. I | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
wonder how long it might take before we see the Lib Dems start to ask if | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
Tim Farron might be the problem. I hate to say it minutes before the | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
big speech, but Nick Clegg... It's the alternative option that's | :13:43. | :13:45. | |
probably the worse. You never know, Nick Clegg may come back, there was | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
Clegg mania, nobody saw that coming, maybe he might come back if he were | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
interested in taking up that position again. We'll have to leave | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
it there. But Matt Chorley, you do this thing called red box or blue | :14:01. | :14:04. | |
box or something is that right? Red box, that's right. And usual giving | :14:05. | :14:15. | |
away mugs. I mean, the sheer rip-off of the Daily Politics! Are you not | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
ashamed of yourself? These are nice mugs. Should be ashamed of yourself. | :14:20. | :14:26. | |
These are very expensive. I'm reaching out to disaffected Daily | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
Express mug fans. You are not going to sell many then! | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
-- Daily Politics mug fans. Thanks for your time this afternoon | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
and remember, folks, there's only one real thing when it comes to | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
muggings. Mugs. Same thing? ! Former Lib Dem leader Paddy Ashdown | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
raised a few eyebrows earlier this week when he suggested that parties | :14:52. | :14:54. | |
on the left should agree on one candidate to take | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
on the Conservatives in the Witney So what did party members | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
in Brighton make of Eleanor Garnier's taken | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
the moodbox to find out. The general election might be a few | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
years away but there is a certain But should they just | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
be one candidate Should the other | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
parties do a deal or no Oh, look, Nick Clegg | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
is doing a book signing. In Witney, do you think there should | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
be a deal between the other parties or just one party, | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
one candidate going up against the You would have to ask the | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
leader that. No deal, I think we | :15:35. | :15:45. | |
can win on our own. We don't need anybody else | :15:46. | :15:52. | |
to differ, we hope we can win Witney and will | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
fight as hard as we can. Because otherwise we | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
are very unlikely to unseat them, and there is more | :15:59. | :16:05. | |
That we agree on land don't agree If it was one candidate | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
and it was our candidate then yes. But on the basis it will not | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
probably be that arrangement and the Labour | :16:13. | :16:14. | |
Party wouldn't stand for it, then it I know, its ballot | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
rigging, I got caught in Because I think it's an opportunity | :16:18. | :16:27. | |
to begin to kind of focus and go We are quite capable | :16:28. | :16:35. | |
of making a big impact in We were involved in the Eastleigh | :16:36. | :16:45. | |
by-election and I remember most of the motorways up and down | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
the country being jammed with I don't think Labour | :16:51. | :16:53. | |
is very competitive, so I would be happy for them | :16:54. | :16:59. | |
to stand and lose. I think the progressive | :17:00. | :17:01. | |
parties should work together for a common cause, | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
belief in Europe and belief in We have made it to the end | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
of the Nick Clegg book signing Let's go downstairs | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
and find some more people. Can we ask you a very | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
quick question? Should all the other | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
parties do a deal or no Here you go, help | :17:25. | :17:32. | |
yourself to a ball. I'm convinced we have a Lib Dem, | :17:33. | :17:43. | |
strongly, to stand against whoever the Tories put up and I hope | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
the people will vote for them and show what they think | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
of this government 's. I'm a great believer | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
in democracy and democracy means all the parties should | :17:55. | :18:03. | |
stand a candidate 's. After that exhausting lap | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
of the Lib Dem conference, the I think there is a programme called | :18:10. | :18:11. | |
deal or no Deal... I'm joined now from Norwich | :18:12. | :18:26. | |
by the Shadow Defence He's a Labour MP keen on the idea | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
of more co-operation You are firmly behind this idea of | :18:30. | :18:39. | |
cooperating with the Liberal Democrats, for example in the seat | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
of Witney? It's something I have given some thought to. It's not for | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
me to make that decision. What do you think? I think the idea of | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
Progressive parties working together and coming together to work on | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
issues they agree with has a lot of merit and it's something I'm | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
interested in. It seems a bit show businesslike, in terms of taking on | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
David Cameron, there is some merit in it but I think it's a bit | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
short-sighted. I think the whole concept of Progressive Alliance is a | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
longer term thing than one by-election standing against David | :19:15. | :19:16. | |
Cameron. As delightful as it would be to see the Tories beaten in that | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
seat. Do you think it would work in Witney? I think it's a very short | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
time frame to cobble together a candidate on which everyone can | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
agree. In Tatton you had a candidate everyone realised was the right | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
person for that particular seat, taking on Neil Hamilton. I don't | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
know if you will find that kind of Parliamentary candidate in time. | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
Putting aside Witney, how would it work in other seats in the longer | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
term, who would stand for whom? I think what you're trying to do here | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
is talking about some of electoral pact. That's exactly what it is. A | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
lot of work has to be done on this. If that was the case then it is | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
something all progressive political parties would need to talk about. | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
Another issue here, the concept of what you would stand on. The key | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
issues I think most progressive parties, including Ukip, which isn't | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
a Progressive party, would agree on, is that we need to change the | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
electoral system to a proportional representation system. If you make | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
that the key thing around which you focus your general election | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
campaign, we all believe that you need PR, get over the first past the | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
post line, and then initiate proportional representation and call | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
another elections. There are lots of options but we need to start the | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
discussion. We are starting it here on the programme. Polly can enter | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
into this. On that basis, if the goal was changing the electoral | :20:49. | :20:51. | |
system, for example, would it be worth it going in with Clive Lewis | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
and his party? I don't disagree with anything Clive Lewis has said, | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
really. I have long thought proportional representation, a | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
change to our voting system would be a tremendous change for our | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
democracy. We had a referendum on a voting system change in 2011. It | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
wasn't PR, but the idea you can bring together a Progressive | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
Alliance and win a majority on the basis of delivering proportional | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
representation is a bit ambitious. Clive Lewis, what did you want to | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
say? I think political parties would stand on a manifesto other than just | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
PR. But one thing they could all agree on is that if they get past | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
the first past the post system and get in, then PR would be the big | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
thing we would instigate and then you could potentially call another | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
election based on PR and go your separate ways or call alliances as | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
you see fit. All political parties would have on manifesto but they | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
would have that running through them. Chopping up who gets what, it | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
feels like a shady backroom deal, precisely what we are trying to | :22:02. | :22:07. | |
abolish. No. It's a challenge and nobly has put forward an answer to | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
solve that conundrum. Clive Lewis is in a seat in Norwich South which is | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
quite precarious, stuffed with Green Party and Liberal Democrat voters. | :22:19. | :22:26. | |
In terms of a Progressive Alliance, it's not simply about what's in the | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
interest of one particular party. We all understand that having a | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
political system, a voting system that gives people a real say... You | :22:33. | :22:37. | |
have said that. Ultimately that's what this is about and what it comes | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
down to. This can't be a top-down, we will tell our local parties how | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
they were going to... Would you step aside in your seat to allow a | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
Liberal Democrat or green, for example, to stand on common themes | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
you agreed with in order to keep the seat from the Tories? I have thought | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
long and hard about this. If there was an electoral pact and a | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
Progressive Alliance where it was the difference between actually | :23:09. | :23:10. | |
having a voting system that enabled our democracy to have a better form | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
of governance, then yes I would. When you look at at how the little | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
Democrats are polling at the moment, any chance to win a seat for a | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
Progressive Alliance left would be a good thing. Yes, and Clive shows | :23:26. | :23:33. | |
great honour in his willingness to put himself forward. But what we | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
have found is that the most tribal people in the country other | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
political party activists and in the end they deliver the candidates. So | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
getting people to stand aside would be a big challenge. The worst place | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
to start would be Witney, where however many parties you bring | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
together, they would lose. Clive Lewis, which proposal do you back | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
for the Shadow Cabinet elections, should they be elected by MPs, you | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
and your peers, or a hybrid? It's not my decision. But you will have a | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
view. I expressed it yesterday. It will be made by the NEC later today. | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
I personally think if you are going to have a system of electing a | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
Shadow Cabinet, it needs to be part of a wider package of democratic | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
reforms in our party. I think part of that could be how we engage the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
membership and affiliates in that process and also the MPs, everybody | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
should have a stake. And also the leader. You do like the hybrid? I do | :24:32. | :24:39. | |
prefer that, yes. That's all you had to say! Thank you for coming onto | :24:40. | :24:40. | |
the programme. News coming in from New York as we | :24:41. | :24:51. | |
have been on air, relatives of the man apprehended for the bombings in | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
New York left the country before the bombings. His wife left for Pakistan | :24:56. | :25:03. | |
but was apprehended in the United Arab Emirates before she got to | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
Pakistan. The mother had left for turkey before the attacks and hasn't | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
yet returned. She left several weeks before and hasn't yet return to the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
United States. That will be part of the ongoing enquiry by the New York | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
police and federal authorities. Now, the Lib Dems yesterday voted | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
to back a policy of calling for a second referendum on the terms | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
of the Brexit deal. Not everyone's happy - | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
Vince Cable warned that such a move But the plan is supported by other | :25:28. | :25:29. | |
senior Liberal Democrats, It's not the first time Mr Cable | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
and Mr Clegg have disagreed. I think under pressure | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
from their more swivel-eyed backbenchers, under pressure | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
from the, sort of, Brexit press, under pressure from their own | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
internal contradictions, they will move remorselessly | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
towards a hard Brexit. Not only taking us out | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
of the European Union, but taking us And when they do that, | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
they will do untold damage They will undo an extraordinary | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
British achievement, the creation of the world's largest | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
borderless marketplace anywhere. And at that point they can never say | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
again, having done so much damage to our great country | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
because of their obsession about Europe, they can never again | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
say that they are a responsible And we're joined now from Brighton | :26:21. | :26:23. | |
by the Liberal Democrat's Home Affairs Spokesman, | :26:24. | :26:36. | |
Alistair Carmichael. Welcome to the programme. Did the | :26:37. | :26:49. | |
Lib Dems propose a second referendum during the referendum campaign? No, | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
we didn't. During the referendum campaign we were out there front and | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
centre making the case to remain part of the European Union. We now | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
have to respond to the results presented to us, and our response is | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
to say that looking at what happened, you had a contest between | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
two propositions. A known one, what we have if we remain, and an | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
unknown, what would happen if we were to leave. It's difficult to | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
make a decision between a known and an unknown. We are now in a position | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
where we are going to have the negotiation and from that we will | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
have a deal. Then we have two known propositions. We say not | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
disrespectful to the voters, just the opposite, it gives voters the | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
final say, having voted for departure, is this the destination | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
you wanted to wanted to go to? You knew that during the referendum | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
campaign, that it would be the situation. You knew there wasn't a | :27:54. | :28:00. | |
detailed plan and it would have to be negotiated. But you didn't tell | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
us there would be a second referendum. You have only come for a | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
replay because you lost the first time. No, what we have said is that | :28:09. | :28:17. | |
the people have spoken, 17 million people gave a mandate to the British | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
government to go and negotiate. That's now what has to happen. They | :28:22. | :28:26. | |
have to negotiate in good faith and get the best possible deal. At the | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
end of that deal, it should then be put to the people. I think there is | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
an important national interest at play here. By their nature, | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
referendums are fairly divisive and polarising exercises. If we are to | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
bring the whole country back together again, I think it's | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
important that everybody, whether you are in the 48 or 52%, can be | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
satisfied that the country is getting what it expected to get, and | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
for that reason, a referendum on the deal is important. You describe | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
referendums as polarising and divisive. I remind you that the | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
Liberal Democrats were the first National party to propose an in-out | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
referendum in the first place. At one stage it was your party policy. | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
When he proposed that, did you propose a second referendum on the | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
outcome? We have always said the issue of Europe and the future of | :29:23. | :29:28. | |
our position in the European Union was a grumbling saw in British | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
politics and it was going to have to be addressed at some point. Ideally, | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
probably Margaret Thatcher should have put the single European act | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
in... My question was, when he proposed a referendum, did you | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
propose a second referendum on the terms of the negotiation? Of course | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
we didn't and you know that perfectly well. Why not if it's a | :29:51. | :29:58. | |
good idea now? Let me explain, when you are presented with a particular | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
set of circumstances and a particular set of facts, then I | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
think it's perfectly legitimate and appropriate that a political party | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
should respond to that. I think that's what the British people | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
expect, and I have absolutely no shame in doing exactly that. I think | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
it's responsible politics which ultimately will bring our position | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
on the world stage back to where it needs to be. When will this | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
referendum take place? Once we know the terms of the deal. Theresa May | :30:28. | :30:36. | |
and her ministers, Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davis, after the go | :30:37. | :30:39. | |
and negotiate with the other member states, give the clearest possible | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
detail of the future relationship with the European Union and once we | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
know what that means, at that stage we should have the second vote. It | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
could possibly be a couple of years down the line. This is why Theresa | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
May at the moment keeps saying Brexit means Brexit. Frankly, as | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
soon as she tries to give any more detail on that, does it mean in or | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
out of the single market, does it mean hard breaks it, a free movement | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
of labour and goods? She knows there are enormous splits in her own | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
party. I'm asking you about the timetable because it will probably | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
take the full two years allowed under article 50 to do what would be | :31:22. | :31:27. | |
a complicated negotiation. At the end of that two years, we are out, | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
that's article 50. So what's the point of your referendum? Will you | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
ask all of Europe to delay us leaving until you've had your | :31:38. | :31:38. | |
referendum? If you look at the terms of Article | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
50 it's short and general in its terms. I don't think this is | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
something that's going to be a governed entirely by the law. It's a | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
question where ultimately the deciding and decisive factors will | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
be political rather than legal. Excuse me to suspend Article 50... | :32:01. | :32:08. | |
To keep... Alastair Carmichael. Yes. To suspend Article 50 beyond two | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
years, you need all 27 members to agree, you need them all. Yes. | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
Otherwise you can't have your referendum. Do you agree with that? | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
Absolutely. We know that there is a time limit on Article 50, that is | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
something that will have to be in the mind of Theresa May and her | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
negotiating team. I'm not saying this this is some kind of panacea | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
and I'm not saying it will be easy. What I am saying is there is an | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
extestential crisis for the European, a project for which I | :32:40. | :32:42. | |
remain passionate. I'm of the view it's essential for our country to be | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
at the heart of Europe and I think that it's important for that reason | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
that we should be clear as a country that if we are going to leave, then | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
we should be in a position of knowing exactly the terms of which | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
we are leaving, that's not the case at the moment. You really think the | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
other 27 members of the European Union are going to spend hours, days | :33:06. | :33:16. | |
and weeks of negotiating terms on exit on something that will change | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
our mind I've never heard anybody in the European Union say they want | :33:24. | :33:28. | |
Britain to leave. I've never encountered anything other than | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
utter bewilderment. But they have said now that we should get on with | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
it. If we made this part of our negotiating approach to the European | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
Union then yes I believe they'll cooperate with us. I believe it's in | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
the interests of the European Union that Britain should be in there as | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
well. Have you asked anyone? Have you asked my members of the European | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
Union if they'll go along with the second referendum idea? I'm no | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
longer a Government minister, it's not for me to conduct the | :33:56. | :34:00. | |
negotiations. I was just asking if you'd sounded them out? No, I've not | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
approached it. I have no... You have no idea... You know perfectly well. | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
It's something, we are at the start of it, it's a long negotiation | :34:12. | :34:14. | |
process, I think it's the sort of thing the Government should be | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
bottoming out. You just said earlier you were passionate about Europe and | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
Europe was in an extestential crisis. Why are you passionate about | :34:26. | :34:29. | |
something that's in an extestential crisis? I'm passionate about the | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
idea that, since the end of the Second World War, cooperation | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
amongst European nations, principally through the European, | :34:38. | :34:41. | |
but also through other organisations like the Council of Europe and NATO, | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
has kept us at peace. You know, and I think we underestimate the impact | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
of that at our peril. Why is it in extestential crisis then? It's in | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
extestential crisis because you see that across Europe a number of | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
political forces on the far right especially have been emboldened by | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
what they see as being behind the vote in Britain to leave the | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
European Union. I think that's possibly the intended | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
consequence. Hold on, madam Le Pen was riding high in the polls before | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
the Brexit vote. The five star movement was riding high here before | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
the Brexit vote. The centre right party in Greece had been wiped out | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
before the Brexit vote. The hard right in Hungary had taken power | :35:28. | :35:33. | |
before Brexit and the right-wing mainstream non-Government, Poland | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
had taken power before the Brexit vote and the Sweden democrats, a | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
hard-right party were polling third in Sweden before the Brexit vote. So | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
I don't understand why you get the idea that... At no point. You | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
misrepresent what I said. At no point did I say that the whole | :35:53. | :35:58. | |
process had been Nish Jayed but it has certainly been emboldened -- | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
initiated. I don't think anybody would dispute that. Thank you very | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
much for joining us. We'll see what Mr Farron has to say. We haven't got | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
long to wait. The hall will no doubt be filling up and queues will be | :36:15. | :36:24. | |
forming outside. It's filled up in fact as Tim Farron is due to take to | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
the stage. They have been boasting they have got enough members to fill | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
the hall. Tim Farron was elected as leader, promising a Lib Dem fight | :36:35. | :36:35. | |
back, so is there any sign of one? at the 2015 General Election - | :36:36. | :36:48. | |
winning just 8% of the vote. Since then the party has | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
made little progress The party did gain 49 seats however | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
in the English local elections - better than the Tories and Labour | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
who both lost seats. The party may be worried however | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
by the findings of a YouGov survey for Newsnight | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
to be broadcast tonight. It found seven out of 10 former | :37:07. | :37:07. | |
Lib Dem voters are uncertain what the party stands for, | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
with 32% saying they 65% of British adults have no | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
opinion on the question of whether he's doing well | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
or badly as Leader. We are joined by our guest Joe who's | :37:17. | :37:31. | |
done the poll with Newsnight. What is your overall take away? There's | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
good news and bad news. Three quarters of those people who voted | :37:35. | :37:40. | |
for the Lib Dems in 2010 but didn't in 2015 don't support them now say | :37:41. | :37:43. | |
they would vote for the Lib Dems potentially at some stage in the | :37:44. | :37:46. | |
future and yes, we have seen in local by-elections that things have | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
improved, the membership numbers are up. That's all good news, but there | :37:50. | :37:56. | |
is bad news as well. Really people are uncertain, it doesn't matter | :37:57. | :37:58. | |
whether we are talking about the general public or Lib Dem | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
supporters, people are uncertain what they stand for or what they | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
should stand for indeed. Should they be an opposition to Government, | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
campaigning to stay in the EU, playing a role in Government? Among | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
their supporters, there is no real decision either way on that. If you | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
want to stage this fightback, you need to turn in the era of social | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
media to the leader and two thirds of the public don't know when he's | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
doing a good or bad job, including half of Lib Dem voters and even a | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
third of Lib Dem supporters, they don't know whether he's doing a good | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
or bad job. It doesn't help if you don't have a big Parliamentary base, | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
you might not get the air time that you would get in a bigger party. In | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
terms of people don't know what they stand for, is this message about a | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
second referendum on the Brexit not cutting through? It doesn't appear | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
to be at the moment. Generally speaking, it falls along the lines | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
of the vote, but even a third of people who voted to remain say there | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
shouldn't be a second referendum so there is not an overwhelming desire | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
and, among Lib Dem voters, two thirds voted to stay, but a third | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
voted to leave. It's not the case that overoverwhelmingly they were... | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
Listening to that interview, is that the right way to go for the Lib | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
Dems, to tie themselves and try to define themselves of a part of the | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
48% who voted to remain in the EU? It's distinctive and appeals in | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
particular to the huge number of Labour voters who voted to remain | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
and who aren't really represented by their current leader who knows how | :39:32. | :39:37. | |
he voted. I think as Andrew's interview with Alastair showed, it's | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
a messy, complicated policy, but of course the status quo is messy and | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
complicated too because we have a Government trying to negotiate with | :39:46. | :39:47. | |
really no mandate about what it is that they are supposed to get except | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
that it must be out. But even on that, it's not getting any traction | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
in the polls, so is it still a policy that they should be following | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
if it's not gaining any track sthun? I think it takes time for any | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
message to get through. It's a fairly clear one though? But most | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
people don't pay attention to politics most of the time and so you | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
have to actually just keep saying the same thing a lot until people | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
listen. Why would the Europeans, in the two years of negotiations, give | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
us Anything if they knew there was | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
going to be a referendum? Tactically if you want us to remain in, that | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
might be helpful, they might be offering such a terrible deal that | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
when compared with staying in it would feel better. If you if they | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
made it seem like coming out would have been palatable, the UN's tactic | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
would surely be, no, this is going to be miserable, you can't have | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
access to the single market, we insist on free movement, why would | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
they give us anything if they knew another vote was come something? | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
Gull if you want us to remain. But you are negotiating a deal to leave, | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
not to remain? The Government is, but of course if Tim Farron was in | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
charge he'd be voting to stay. On the same terms as now. The problem | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
it seems on this issue is that if there was a second referendum there | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
would be more uncertainty and from your polling people don't want that? | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
Not at the moment but there is no alternative options set out at the | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
moment so it's a potential area for leadership but you can't lead if | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
no-one knows what you stand for. So, Tim Farron will get to his feet | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
in just a few minutes now. Before he makes that | :41:28. | :41:30. | |
big conference speech, let's just remind ourselves | :41:31. | :41:32. | |
of what the Lib Dem leader has been We paid a heavy price | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
for our time in government, The Lib Dem leader has just been to | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
see the migrant crisis first-hand. Tim Farron has got his first | :41:40. | :41:51. | |
question to the Prime Minister Will he agree with the Save | :41:52. | :41:55. | |
the Children plea that we take as a country 3000 vulnerable | :41:56. | :42:02. | |
unaccompanied children in Europe, some of whom are | :42:03. | :42:04. | |
as young as six? He may have lied to have influenced | :42:05. | :42:07. | |
the election, but today Alistair Carmichael was cleared | :42:08. | :42:19. | |
of breaking the law. However irritating | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
the honourable gentleman... LAUGHTER ..May be to government | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
backbenchers, he has I am fantastically grateful to you, | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
Mr Speaker. # Jump to the beat | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
of the party line... The decision taken in 1975 by this | :42:46. | :42:52. | |
country to join the Common I am, frankly, utterly | :42:53. | :43:02. | |
gutted and heartbroken. The way my teacher told me | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
to do it, is imagine We were talking about the polls, the | :43:08. | :43:43. | |
Lib Dems trying to redefine themselves post-re-election. What | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
are the views about their legacy, if anything, in Government? The general | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
public and among their lost supporters, there's really no | :43:53. | :43:55. | |
overwhelming view one way or the other about whether it was good, bad | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
or whether they had influence or not. 85% of the current supporters | :43:58. | :44:01. | |
believe that actually they were good and they did have a positive | :44:02. | :44:04. | |
influence on Government so it's quite a difference between the old | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
and the new. Right, so the old supporters of the Liberal Democrats | :44:10. | :44:11. | |
thought they didn't make much difference at all, Polly, that must | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
be a bit of a blow to those left? It is and I think it's perfectly | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
obvious that during the years in coalition we didn't effectively tell | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
the story about the impact we were having and the problem is that now | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
the Liberal Democrats have left Government and the Conservative | :44:29. | :44:31. | |
Party did then lurch off to the right and take us out of Europe and | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
do all sorts of disastrous things and basically mess up the country, | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
we are too small to be heard saying "I told you so", plus of course I | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
told you so has never been the most effective political campaign state. | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
Straight over to Brighton. There is Mr Farron taking to the stage. He's | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
only been leader for one year. This is his second address at a | :44:54. | :44:57. | |
conference and he'll be hoping to reassure them and cut through to the | :44:58. | :45:01. | |
wider public and give himself a bigger profile with voters in | :45:02. | :45:03. | |
January. He begins. | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
Thank you very much. You might have worked this out for yourselves, but | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
I'm now the longest serving leader of a UK wide but vertical party! I | :45:16. | :45:22. | |
have seen off all the heavyweights, Cameron, Farage, Natalie Bennett! | :45:23. | :45:33. | |
Roy Hodgson. Mel and Sue. Liberal Democrats are good at lots of | :45:34. | :45:38. | |
things. The thing that we are best that is con founding expectations. | :45:39. | :45:47. | |
We were expected to shy away from taking power, but we stepped up and | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
we made a difference. We were expected to disappear after the 20 | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
15th election but we bounced back and are almost twice the size we | :45:58. | :45:58. | |
were then. I have been doing a bit of | :45:59. | :46:15. | |
confounding expectations myself. You see, I am a white, nor | :46:16. | :46:25. | |
working-class, middle-aged bloke. According to polling experts, I | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
should have voted to leave. May I assure you that I didn't. But mates | :46:32. | :46:36. | |
of mine did, people in my family did. I spent most of my adult life, | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
working and raising a family and West Midlands. I am massively proud | :46:45. | :46:55. | |
-- in Westmorland. But I was born a few miles south in Preston. I was | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
raised in a family with not much money around, at a time when it | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
seemed to me the Thatcher government was determined to put every adult I | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
knew out of work and on the scrapheap. But our people and our | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
community were not for breaking. The great city of Preston is a | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
no-nonsense place, proud of its history and ambitious about its | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
future. It's the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution, it is the | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
place where Cromwell won the most important battle in the English | :47:26. | :47:28. | |
Civil War, the complacent establishment stuffed by the | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
outsiders. And that links rather neatly, I'm afraid, to the | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
referendum. Preston voted 53% to leave. Some places in Lancashire two | :47:39. | :47:45. | |
thirds of people voted out. I respect those people. If you forgive | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
me, they are my people. If they will forgive me, I'm still utterly | :47:50. | :47:53. | |
convinced Britain should remain in Europe. APPLAUSE | :47:54. | :48:04. | |
I was convinced on the 23rd of June. I am today. I will continue to be. | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
Not because I'm some starry eyed pro-European with Ode to Joy as my | :48:11. | :48:18. | |
ring tone. We all know what I have is my ring tone. But I'm a patriot. | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
We believe it's in our national interest to be in, for more jobs, | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
lower prices, stop climate change, catch terrorism, to stand tall and | :48:30. | :48:37. | |
to matter, and because I believe that Britain is an open, tolerant | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
country, the opposite of the bleak vision of Nigel Farage and Boris | :48:43. | :48:53. | |
Johnson. APPLAUSE Britain did not become Great Britain | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
on fear, isolation and division, and there is no country called Little | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
Britain. There is nothing so dangerous and narrow as nationalism | :49:04. | :49:10. | |
and cheap identity politics. But there is nothing wrong with | :49:11. | :49:19. | |
identity. I am very proud of mine. I'm a Lancastrian, a northerner, ie | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
in English, British, I am European, all of those things. None of them | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
contradict each other, and no campaign of lies and fear will rob | :49:30. | :49:31. | |
me of who I am. But we lost. We lost, didn't we? I | :49:32. | :49:50. | |
was born and raised in Preston, but the football mad half of my family | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
is from Blackburn, so I make Rovers fan. Defeat and disappointment is in | :49:55. | :50:03. | |
my blood! Those who say I'm a bad loser are quite wrong. I'm a great | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
loser, I've had loads of practice. But the referendum result to me was | :50:10. | :50:15. | |
like a bereavement. I was devastated, I am devastated. We | :50:16. | :50:18. | |
Liberal Democrats worked harder than anyone else in that campaign. We put | :50:19. | :50:25. | |
blood, sweat and tears into it. We put the positive case for Europe | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
while Cameron and Osborne churned out dry statistics, fear mongering | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
and shallow platitudes. It's easy to say after such a now world | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
referendum result that we are a divided and true. -- a narrow | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
referendum result. In ways we are, but a split between believers and | :50:43. | :50:49. | |
Remainers is a manifestation of that. Written today, has too much | :50:50. | :50:56. | |
wealth concentrated in some parts of the country and too little in | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
others. -- Britain today. A few weeks after the referendum I went | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
back to Preston and we booked Saint Wilfrid's Church Hall of the Fisher | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
gate for a public meeting. When my office booked the place they didn't | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
know it meant something quite deeply to me personally. The last time I | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
was in that church, I was therefore my grandmother's funeral ten years | :51:21. | :51:23. | |
ago. The last time I walked out of it was as a pallbearer. I was in a | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
reflective mood when I began the meeting. There were perhaps 70 or 80 | :51:31. | :51:35. | |
people there. Most of them had voted to leave. Most of them pretty much | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
fitted my demographic. They weren't mostly diehards. I honestly reckon | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
about three quarters of them could have been persuaded to vote for | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
remain up until two or three weeks out. One guy said that the clincher | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
for him was George Osborne's punishment budget. When he said | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
that, pretty much the whole room chipped in and agreed. There was | :52:00. | :52:02. | |
near universal acknowledgement that this had been a pivotal moment. Here | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
was this guy, George Osborne, who they didn't really like, and who | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
they felt didn't really like them, and he appeared on the telly and | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
bullied them into doing something they weren't sure they wanted to do | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
and they reacted. If you base your political strategy on divide and | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
rule, don't be surprised if the people you have divided decides to | :52:26. | :52:34. | |
give you a kicking. So I don't blame the people in that church hall for | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
their anger. Actually, I share it. I am angry, and I'm angry at the | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
calculating forces of darkness who care nothing for the working people | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
of this country, nothing for our NHS, nothing for those who struggle | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
to get by, and exploited that anger to win an exit from Europe that will | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
hurt the poorest the hardest. APPLAUSE | :52:59. | :53:06. | |
The people in that church hall in Preston had voted differently to me, | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
but I thought, we are on the same side here. We see a London centric, | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
no, Westminster and Whitehall centric approach and the media | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
treating the provinces as alien places. Those people in Preston and | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
Sunderland see the divide between win and lose. When the country is | :53:30. | :53:32. | |
booming they do not see the benefit and when the country is declining | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
they are the first hit. At the meeting they talked about low wages, | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
poor housing, strained hospitals and schools. Their problems were not | :53:42. | :53:46. | |
caused by the European Union. They were caused by powerful people who | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
took them for granted. By politicians who have spent decades | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
chasing cheap headlines and short-term success for their own | :53:54. | :53:57. | |
political careers and never acting in a long-term interests of the | :53:58. | :54:07. | |
whole country. APPLAUSE So, those people in that room, like | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
millions of others, wanted, quite understandably, to give the powerful | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
a kicking, so they did. I wanted Britain to remain in the European | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
Union and I still do, but we have got to listen. To learn and | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
understand why millions of people voted to leave. We can't just tell | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
them they are wrong and stick our fingers in our ears. I wanted two | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
things, I want to persuade those who voted leave that we understand and | :54:36. | :54:43. | |
respect their reasons and we are determined to take head-on the | :54:44. | :54:45. | |
things about today's Britain that have left so many people feeling | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
ignored, and I want to give them their say over what comes next. | :54:48. | :54:59. | |
APPLAUSE So, Theresa May says Brexit means | :55:00. | :55:07. | |
Brexit. Well, thanks for clearing that up. Absolute genius. Nearly | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
three months since the referendum and we have a government with new | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
departments, new titles, a new Prime Minister, but no plan, no vision. No | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
clue, and no leadership. Theresa May did so little in the remain | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
campaign, that she actually made it look like Jeremy Corbyn pulled a | :55:31. | :55:40. | |
shift. And today, the absence of leadership from the Prime Minister | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
is astonishing. The absence of clarity as to what will happen to | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
our country is a disgrace. Three months on, it's not good enough to | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
have brainstorming sessions at Chequers while investment and jobs | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
steadily lead away. While our standing and relevance in the world | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
diminishes in direct proportion to the number of foreign visits by | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
Boris Johnson. While British industry is crying out for | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
direction, for certainty, for any idea of what lies ahead, make no | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
mistake, the Conservative Party has now lost the right to call itself | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
the party of business. It has lost the right to call itself the party | :56:19. | :56:20. | |
of the free market. APPLAUSE The Conservative Party no longer | :56:21. | :56:37. | |
supports business, no longer understands the need for calm, | :56:38. | :56:42. | |
economic pragmatism, but instead pursues the Nationalists, | :56:43. | :56:44. | |
protectionist fantasies of the Brexit fundamentalists who have won | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
the day. Our message to any business in this country large or small is | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
this. If you are backing today's Conservative Party, you are funding | :56:55. | :57:02. | |
your own funeral. APPLAUSE There is now only one party that | :57:03. | :57:10. | |
believes in British business, large and small, that believes in | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
entrepreneurship and innovation, and that is the Liberal Democrats. We | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
are the free market, free trade, pro-business party now. APPLAUSE | :57:19. | :57:32. | |
So, Theresa May, please tell us what Brexit really means. You've had | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
three months. You are the Prime Minister, stop dithering. What is | :57:38. | :57:46. | |
your plan? The Liberal Democrats have a plan. We know what we want, | :57:47. | :57:52. | |
and we know where we want to take our country. When Theresa May does | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
agree a deal with the European Union, we want the people to decide. | :57:57. | :58:03. | |
Not a rerun of the referendum, not a second referendum, but a referendum | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
on the terms of the as yet unknown Brexit deal. And if the Tories say, | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
we've had enough referendums, I would say, you started it! APPLAUSE | :58:13. | :58:23. | |
We had a democratic vote in June. We can't start this process with | :58:24. | :58:28. | |
democracy and end it with a stitch up. If we trusted the people to vote | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
for departure, then we must trust the people to vote for the | :58:33. | :58:33. | |
destination. Millions of people have not been | :58:34. | :58:52. | |
well served by generations of politicians who put their own | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
short-term political needs before the long-term interests of the | :58:57. | :59:00. | |
people they were supposed to be serving, and politics is about | :59:01. | :59:06. | |
service. David Cameron's handling of our relationship with Europe is a | :59:07. | :59:11. | |
masterclass in selfish, shallow short termism, party before country | :59:12. | :59:16. | |
at every turn. The Conservative Party risked our country's very | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
future and the life chances of millions of young people, all in a | :59:21. | :59:24. | |
failed attempt to unite their fractured party. David Cameron | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
risked our future and he lost. And while he waltzes off to riches and | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
retirement, our country is plunged into economic uncertainty, | :59:36. | :59:38. | |
insecurity and irrelevance on the world stage. The Tories took the | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
gamble but Britain will pay the price, what an absolute disgrace! | :59:43. | :59:51. | |
But their short termism does not stop with Brexit. Look at their | :59:52. | :00:03. | |
handling of the refugee crisis. The biggest crisis facing our continent | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
since the Second World War. They did nothing to help right until the | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
point that they thought it was in their short-term interest to act. | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
When the photograph of the body of three-year-old Alan Kurdi facedown | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
in the sand was on the front page of every newspaper. The people were | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
shocked and heartbroken and they demanded action. And the Tories did | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
bare minimum. But since then, the front pages have moved on and they | :00:35. | :00:40. | |
have barely lifted a finger. There are some on the centre-left who are | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
squeamish about patriotism. But not me. I am proud of my country, and I | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
hate it when my country makes me ashamed. When I was on the island of | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
Lesbos last year after we had helped to land a flimsy boat of desperate | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
refugees, I was handing out bottles of fresh water alongside other | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
volunteers. A few yards away was an aid worker from New Zealand who knew | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
I was a British politician. And she looked at me and she shouted, "Stop | :01:10. | :01:15. | |
handing out bottles of water and take some effing refugees because | :01:16. | :01:25. | |
that is how Britain is seen as not pulling its weight." That might not | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
bother some people, but it bothers me. Because I am proud of who we | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
are. APPLAUSE. | :01:33. | :01:44. | |
I am proud of Britain. We are always a sanctuary for the desperate, the | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
abused and persecuted and I will not stand by and watch my country become | :01:49. | :01:54. | |
smaller, meaner and selfish. That is not Britain, we are better than | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
that. APPLAUSE. | :01:57. | :02:04. | |
And a year on, a year on, the crisis is worse. It is not better. Not that | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
you would ever know it. We don't see those desperate families in the | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
media every day now. We aren't confronted so often with the | :02:14. | :02:16. | |
knowledge that they are just like us and that they need our help. Much to | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
the Government's delight, compassion fatigue's set in, the news has moved | :02:23. | :02:26. | |
on. We have had Brexit, a new Prime Minister, a Labour Leadership | :02:27. | :02:29. | |
contest and none of that maybes a blind bit of difference to a | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
nine-year-old kid stuck alone and hungry and cold in a camp in | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
northern Greece or to the family this morning fleeing their burning | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
camp. The Government wants us to forget this crisis, it's too | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
difficult to solve, too risky to take the lead, but we have not | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
forgotten, we'll not forget. Those children could be our children, how | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
dare the Government abandon them! APPLAUSE. | :02:54. | :03:23. | |
But short-termism in politics goes back a lot further than just this | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
Government. You've got to look at the way the Conservatives in the 80s | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
and Labour in the 90s treated the banks, sucking up, deregulating, | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
encouraging a culture of risk and greed. Instead of building an | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
economy that served the long-term needs of the whole country, they put | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
all their eggs in one basket - the banks. And for a while, things were | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
good for Britain, Britain boomed. But they didn't invest in modern | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
infrastructure that could benefit the North of England or Scotland or | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
Wales or the Midlands or the south-west. They didn't invest in | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
the skills the next generation would need. They didn't invest in our | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
manufacturing base. All they did was allow the banks to take bigger and | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
bigger risks, build up bigger and bigger lights. And when the banks | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
failed, we were all left paying the price in lower wages and less jobs, | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
cuts in Public Services. Short-term thinking, long-term consequences. | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
And nowhere is this danger posed more by short-term thinking greater | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
than with the future of our National Health Service. | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
Can you remember a time when there were not reports on the news almost | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
daily saying the National Health Service was in crisis? For years, | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
politicians have chosen to paper over the cracks rather than come | :04:41. | :04:42. | |
clean about what it will really take, what it will really cost, not | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
just the keep the NHS afloat, but to give people the care and the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
treatment that they deserve and that means finally bringing the NHS and | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
social care together. APPLAUSE. | :04:57. | :05:07. | |
In my grandpa's journey through Alzheimer's, he had good care in the | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
home he spent his last couple of years in. But when he first became | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
ill, after the death of my grandma, the place he was put in was | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
despicable. Lonely, unclean, uncaring. I can still smell it now. | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
It's a few years back, but as I fought to get him out of that place | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
and into somewhere better, it occurred to me that this was a | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
standard experience for too many people and their loved ones. Maybe | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
some people can shrug and accept this, but I can't. I've seen enough | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
terrible old people's homes and enough people who've had to wait for | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
ever for treatment, particularly people who don't have someone to | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
fight their corner. It's not civilised to let people splip | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
through the net or to watch the people who go out of their way to | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
make their lives easier when everything else is making their | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
lives harder. It's not civilised and it's not good enough. I worry about | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
this, not just for the NHS in general, but if I'm honest, for | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
myself and for my family. We are, if we are lucky, going to grow old. We | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
know no matter what happens we'll be cared for with dignity and respect. | :06:23. | :06:30. | |
William Beverage writen the blueprint saying that when people | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
are living to the ages they are today, there is no doubt he would | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
have proposed a national health and care service. He would have been | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
appalled about the child who has to look at their disabled parent or the | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
thousands of women across the country who're unable to work | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
because they are disproportionately care-gives. Let's today decide to do | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
what Beverage would do, let's create that national health and care | :06:56. | :06:56. | |
service. APPLAUSE. | :06:57. | :07:10. | |
And let's stop being complacent about our NHS. Of course, we have a | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
brilliant NHS, best staff in the world, free care at the point of | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
access, but we are spending far less on it every year than we need to. Of | :07:20. | :07:26. | |
the 15 original EU countries, including Spain, Greece and | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
Portugal, we rank behind them in 13th place when it comes to health | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
spending. It would take tens of billions of pounds a year just to | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
bring ourselves up to their average. It's not good enough. So we need to | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
face the truth. The hard truth. That the NHS needs more money, a lot more | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
money, not just to stop it lurching from crisis to crisis, but so that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
it can meet the needs and challenges it will face in the years ahead, so | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
that it can be the service we all need for the long-term. | :07:58. | :07:58. | |
APPLAUSE. Now, that means having the most | :07:59. | :08:09. | |
frank and honest conversation about the NHS that the country has ever | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
had, what Beverage did for the 20th century we must do for the 21st | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
century. APPLAUSE. | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
And in Norman Lamb, we have THE politician who is most trusted and | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
respected by the health profession and deservedly so. | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE. And, Norman and I are clear, we are | :08:33. | :08:44. | |
not going to joining the ranks of those politicians who're too scared | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
of losing votes to face up to what really needs to be done. We will go | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
to the British people with the results of our Beverage Commission | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
and we'll offer a new deal for health and social care, honest about | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
the cost, bold about the solution and if the only way to fund a Health | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
Service that meets the needs of everyone is to raise taxes, Liberal | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Democrats will raise taxes. APPLAUSE. | :09:12. | :09:24. | |
Short-term thinking is the scourge of our education system too. | :09:25. | :09:32. | |
Governments designed an education system, especially at primary school | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
level that is focussed, not on developing young people for further | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
life or study, but on getting them through the wrong kinds of tests. | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
It's not about whether kids can solve problems or converse in other | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
languages or even their own, it's about statistics, measurements, | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
league tables, instead of building an education system we have built a | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
quality assurance industry. It's no wonder so many teachers are | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
frustrateded, no wonder so many leave the profession, parents | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
deserve to know that their child's teacher is focussed on teaching. | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
Teachers are professionally undervalued, driven towards meeting | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
targets, instead of developing young minds and, as ever, it's the poorest | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
kids who suffer the most. APPLAUSE. | :10:23. | :10:29. | |
So in the last Government, we introduced a policy, a long-term | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
policy to try and help the poorest kids keep up with their better off | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
class mates, the pupil premium. This year, this school year, more than | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
two million children will benefit from that Liberal Democrat policy | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
and I am so proud. APPLAUSE. | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
I am so proud of that and I am so proud of Kirsty Williams who's | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
making a real difference every day to the lives of children across | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Wales, the pupil premium is not safe in Tory hands but it's safe in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Kirsty's. What's more, she has doubled it. That is what happens | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
when you get into power. But we need to do so very much more. | :11:07. | :11:21. | |
I talk a lot about opportunity, about breaking down the barriers | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
that hold people back and nowhere is that more important than in | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
education. I want our schools to be places where our teachers have the | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
freedom to use their skill and their knowledge to open young minds, not | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
just train them to pass tests. I want them to be places where | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
children are inspired to learn, not stressed out by those tests. So I | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
want to end the current system of SATs in primary schools that are a | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
distraction from the real education, the professional teachers want to | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
give their children, that weigh heavily on children as young as six | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
and add nothing to the breadth of their learning. What are we doing | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
wasting our children's education and teacher's talents on ticking the | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
boxes. What are we doing in 2016? Threatening to relegate 80% of our | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
children to education Second Division by returning to the | :12:15. | :12:16. | |
11-plus. APPLAUSE. | :12:17. | :12:26. | |
I mean, every child wants to send their kids to a good school, every | :12:27. | :12:34. | |
parent wants their kid... You know what I mean. Every child wants their | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
parent to be sent to school - that's probably right in my case. But every | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
parent thinks the same too. But, you know, selective schools are not the | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
answer for either of us. We need better schools for all our children, | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
not just those who can pass an exam at the age of 11. We can't just | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
leave children behind. Over the last 40 years, millions of children, me | :12:59. | :13:04. | |
included back in the day, have been liberated by comprehensive education | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
APPLAUSE. APPLAUSE. | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
Those kids probably including me, would have been Consigned to second | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
class status in a secondary modern and it's important for us to | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
remember who made that happen. It was Shirley Williams. It was Shirley | :13:23. | :13:31. | |
Williams. Let's be clear, let's be very clear. For us, defending | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
education for all is not just about being liberal, it's person. Shirley, | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
we will defend your legacy. APPLAUSE. | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
I mean, assessment is vital, exams are actually important, but let's | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
have assessment that leads to a love of learning and a breadth of | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
learning that is relevant to what children will need next at school | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
and in their future as adults. There is nothing more long-term than the | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
education of a child that stays with them for their entire life. So let's | :14:07. | :14:12. | |
end the box-ticking, let's teach our children and let's trust our | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
teachers. APPLAUSE. | :14:15. | :14:26. | |
Now, one thing you cannot accuse Jeremy Corbyn of is short-term | :14:27. | :14:37. | |
thinking. His lot have waited over 100 years for this. Finally they | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
have taken over the Labour Party and, like all good Marxists, they | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
have seized the means of production, they have even seized the nurseries | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
too. Opening branches of Momentum kids, otherwise known as child | :14:52. | :15:01. | |
labour. Or my particular favourite, Tiny Trots. | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
I mean, we shouldn't laugh. The Liberal Democrats have never had any | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
trouble with entryists, unless you include the Quakers. My problem with | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is nothing personal. After all, I used to see him quite a | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
lot in the Blair years, he was always in the lobby. | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
LAUGHTER. But my problem with core someone | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
that for him, holding the Government to account is not a priority. | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
Winning elections is a distraction, unless it's his own leadership | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
election. It's baffling to see. The Labour Party argue about whether or | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
not they could even be trying to win the election. Can you imagine that? | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
The Liberals and Liberal Democrats spent decades out of power and then, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
when the opportunity finally came, it incredibly difficult | :15:52. | :15:53. | |
circumstances, when the easiest thing in the world would have been | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
to walk away, we chose to take power because we knew the point of | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
politics is to put principles into action, to get things done, not just | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
to feel good, but to do good. So we took power and we got crushed so you | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
could forgive us for thinking twice about whether power is really worth | :16:15. | :16:15. | |
it. But of course it's worth it. Having | :16:16. | :16:25. | |
fine principles but no power is just turning your back some people who | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
need you the most, and letting someone else win the day. We have | :16:30. | :16:35. | |
huge crises in Britain today, in our NHS, the economy, in our | :16:36. | :16:39. | |
relationship with the rest of the world, we have a Tory government to | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
got less than a of the electorate supporting them at the last | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
election, a Prime Minister that nobody has elected plunging our | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
country into chaos. They spent a year going after the working poor, | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
refugees and junior doctors. And the Labour Party have been going for | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
each other. Instead of standing up to the Conservatives they were | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
sitting on the floor of half empty Virgin Trains. Maybe Jeremy Corbyn | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
thinks there are more important things than winning elections but | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
for millions of people desperate for an affordable home, a fair wage and | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
properly funded NHS, they can't wait. How dare the official | :17:17. | :17:29. | |
opposition abandon them. APPLAUSE Which ever party you support it at | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
the last election, we all know that Britain needs a decent and united | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
opposition. So if Corbyn's Labour has left the stage, then we will | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
take the stage. People say to me this is a great opportunity for the | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
Liberal Democrats, but this is more than opportunity, its duty. Britain | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
needs a strong opposition and the Liberal Democrats will be that | :17:54. | :18:06. | |
strong opposition. APPLAUSE Do you ever listened to these Labour | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
people arguing among themselves, throwing around the word Blairite as | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
if it's the most offensive insult. I hear some Carr momentum folk | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
referring to Gordon Brown as a Blairite! I'm pretty sure he's a | :18:23. | :18:37. | |
brown -- Brownite. I am not a Blairite. I was very proud to march | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
against his illegal invasion of Iraq, I was incredibly proud to | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
stand with Charles Kennedy, and I was incredibly proud this summer | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
when Charles' brave stance was vindicated in a Chilcot Report. I | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
was all so proud to be in the party that stood up against his | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
government's attempts to stamp on our civil liberties, from compulsory | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
ID cards, to 90 days detention without charge. And I was proud of | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
Vince Cable as he called out Tony Blair's government 's deregulation | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
of the banks. But there is more to Tony Blair's legacy than that. I | :19:18. | :19:25. | |
kind of see Tony Blair the way I see the Stone Roses. I preferred the | :19:26. | :19:34. | |
early work. Tony Blair's government gave us the national minimum wage. | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
It gave us working tax credits. It gave us NHS investment and a massive | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
school building programme. I disagreed with him a lot, but I will | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
not criticise him for those things. I admire him for those things. And I | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
respect him for believing that the point of being in politics is to get | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
stuff done. And you can only get stuff done if you win, otherwise you | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
are letting your opponent get stuff done instead. The crowd in Corbyn's | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
ranks like to talk in terms of loyalty and betrayal, but there is | :20:10. | :20:13. | |
no surer way to betray the people you represent and to let your | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
opponents win. So I believe in working across party | :20:16. | :20:31. | |
lines. I am prepared to work with people of all parties and none if it | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
will make people's lives better. But I couldn't work with Jeremy Corbyn, | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
because Jeremy Corbyn would never work with me. I wanted to work with | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
him during the referendum campaign, but he would not share a platform. | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
Splendid isolation was more important to him than joining the | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
fight to save our country. Labour is having its leadership contest in a | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
few days' time. Maybe Jeremy Corbyn will not be their leader, in which | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
case it will be Owen Smith. I don't know Owen Smith all that well. But | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
unlike Jeremy Corbyn, he's certainly on our side of the European debate. | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
So if Owen Smith wins, I want to make it very clear that I'm open to | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
working together. And there are others I could work with, too. There | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
is another contest happening out, you might have noticed, it's for the | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
chair of the home affairs select committee. It's an important post, | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
but with no offence, let's face it, it's kind of a retirement job. Among | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
the contenders are Yvette Cooper, Caroline Flint and Chuka Umunna. | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
These are Premier League people. Shouldn't that be the Labour | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
leadership contest? What are these people doing jostling for position | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
in a sideshow? They should be centre stage. The government need an | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
opposition and that means Progressives should be prepared to | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
put differences aside in order to hold them to account. APPLAUSE | :22:02. | :22:14. | |
But if Jeremy Corbyn does win, where does that leave us? A Conservative, | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
Brexit government, and without us to restrain them, they are showing | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
their true colours. Reckless, divisive, uncaring, prepared to risk | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
our future prosperity for their own short-term gain. And a Labour Party | :22:31. | :22:32. | |
that has forgotten the people it's there to stand up for. Hopelessly | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
divided, blatantly unfit for government with no plan for the | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
economy or their country, and led by a man obsessed with refighting the | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
battles of the past and ignoring the damage this government is doing to | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
our future. And therefore there is a hole in the centre of British | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
politics right now, a huge opportunity for a party that will | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
stand up for an open, tolerant and united Britain. There is a hole in | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
the centre of British politics right now for a rallying point, for people | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
who believe in the politics of reason, evidence and moderation, who | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
want fact, not fear, who want responsibility and not recklessness. | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
Who want to believe somebody is looking out for the long-term good | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
of our country. There is a hole in the centre of British politics right | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
now that is crying out to be filled by a real opposition, so we will | :23:32. | :23:33. | |
stand up to the Conservative Brexit government. If Labour will not be | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
the opposition Britain needs, then we will. APPLAUSE | :23:38. | :23:51. | |
And that, that is what we are fighting for. A Britain that is | :23:52. | :24:01. | |
open, tolerant and united. And we will only build that Britain if we | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
win. So here is my plan. We will dramatically rebuild our strength in | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
local government deliberately, passionately, effectively. Winning | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
council seat is our chance to shape, lead and serve our communities and | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
put liberalism into practice. Liberals believe in local | :24:21. | :24:24. | |
government, I believe in local government and every council seat | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
matters to me. My challenge to you is to pick a ward and win it. My | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
commitment to you is that I choose to build our party's revival on | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
victories in every council in this country. APPLAUSE | :24:37. | :24:47. | |
And my plan includes growing, continuing to grow our membership. | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
Our party has grown 80% in just 14 months. But that is merely a staging | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
post. We will continue to build a movement that can win at every | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
level. I will lead the Liberal Democrats as the only party | :25:02. | :25:03. | |
committed to Britain in Europe with a plan to let the people decide our | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
future in a referendum on the as yet nonexistent Tory Brexit deal. I will | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
lead the only party with a plan for our country's longer-term future, | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
green, healthy, well educated, outward looking, prosperous and | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
secure. I will build the open, United and tolerant party that can | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
be the opposition to this Conservative government. On NHS | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
underfunding, on divisive grammar schools, on attacks on British | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
business, I want the Liberal Democrats to be ready to fill the | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
gap where an official opposition to be. I want the Liberal Democrats to | :25:40. | :25:49. | |
be a strong, united opposition. APPLAUSE | :25:50. | :25:57. | |
I want us to be audacious, ambitious and accept the call of history. A | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
century ago, the Liberals lost touch with their purpose and voters and | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Labour took their chance and became Britain's largest Progressive party. | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
Today I want us utterly ready and determined to take our chance as the | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
tectonic plates shift again. I do not accept the leadership of a party | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
so we can look on for the sidelines. I did it because our destiny is to | :26:24. | :26:28. | |
once again become one of the great parties of government. To be the | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
place where liberals and progressives of all kinds gather to | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
provide be strong opposition that this country needs. That is my plan | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
and I need you to join me to fight for it. Let's be clear... APPLAUSE | :26:41. | :26:55. | |
Let's be clear, we are talking about doing a Justin Trudeau. He is better | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
looking than me and he's got a tattoo. I can fix one of those | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
things if you insist. LAUGHTER I would not get into a boxing ring | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
with him, but I reckon I can have him in a fell race. But the point | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
is, Trudeau's liberals wept over an inadequate opposition to defeat a | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
right-wing Conservative government. -- leapt over. Do you fancy doing | :27:24. | :27:33. | |
that, because I do. You know what, there are some people who will say, | :27:34. | :27:39. | |
steady on, you only have eight MPs. Maybe for the time being some might | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
be sceptical about stealing gay Trudeau, but let's definitely agree | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
that we can and Ashdown to take this party from a handful of seats to | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
dozens of seats. -- sceptical about doing a Trudeau. Nobody believes, | :27:55. | :28:02. | |
whether boundary changes happen or not, that's Labour will gain a | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
single seat from the Tories. Mathematically, the SNP can only | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
take one seat off the Tories. But there are dozens of Tory seats in | :28:12. | :28:17. | |
our reach, which means the only thing standing between the | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
Conservatives and a majority at the next election is the revival of the | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
Liberal Democrats, so let's make it happen. APPLAUSE | :28:25. | :28:39. | |
And we have to make it happen. Because there is a new battle | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
emerging here and across the whole western world, between the forces of | :28:45. | :28:50. | |
tolerant liberalism and intolerant, close minded nationalism. Top of all | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
the things that oppressed me the morning after the referendum, -- | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
that depressed me. Was seeing Nigel Farage. Here was a man who pandered | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
to our worst instincts, fear, suspicion of others, and he's not | :29:07. | :29:11. | |
alone. His victory was welcomed by Marine Le Pen in France, and | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
nationalists and populist all over Europe. In a few weeks he went from | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
standing in front of that odious breaking point poster, demonising | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
desperate refugees, to standing on a podium in Mississippi next Donald | :29:27. | :29:33. | |
Trump. Make no mistake, Farage's victory is becoming the government's | :29:34. | :29:36. | |
agenda. When the government talks about a hard Brexit, that's what | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
they mean, a Brexit that cuts as from our neighbours, no matter the | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
consequence for people's jobs and livelihoods. A Brexit at toys with | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
the lives of hard-working people who have made Britain their home, paid | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
their way, immerse themselves in our communities. Just more than a | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
million Brits have also made their homes on the continent. A Brexit | :29:58. | :30:05. | |
that will leave is poorer, weaker and less able to protect ourselves, | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
but we will not let Nigel Farage's vision for Britain win. To coin a | :30:09. | :30:10. | |
phrase, I want my country back. To people who support Labour who | :30:11. | :30:30. | |
look at the last election result and say, can I really take the risk of | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
backing the Liberal Democrats, let me be blunt with you. The risk is | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
for you to do nothing. In 20 years' time, we are going to all be asked | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
by our kids when our NHS, our school system, our unity, as a country, has | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
been impoverished by 20-odd years of Tory rule and when our economy's | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
been relegated, our green industry crashed and our status diminished | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
after two decades of isolation from Europe, we are going to be asked why | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
did you let that happen, what did you do to try and stop it. You might | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
explain, well we lost the referendum so we had to move on and live with | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
it. Or you might explain, well I was in the Labour Party. Momentum | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
destroyed it. But I couldn't bring myself to leave and back anybody | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
else. They'll look at you and say, why didn't you even try, why did you | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
let us limp out of Europe, why did you stick with a party that handed | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
the Conservatives unlimited power and you will know then that you | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
could have done something different, you could have joined us, you could | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
have fought back, you could have taken a risk because joining the | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
Liberal Democrats today, it is a risk, it is a big ask, but let me be | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
very clear, as we stand on the edge of those two horrific realities, | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
Brexit and a Tory stranglehold on Britain, the biggest risk is that | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
you don't join us. APPLAUSE. | :31:57. | :32:14. | |
Let's be absolutely certain of this reality. The only movement with the | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
desire and the potential to stop the calamity of Brexit and the tragedy | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
of a generation of Conservative majority rule is this movement, it | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
is the Liberal Democrats, so you can despair if you want and accept the | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
inevitability of a Tory Government for the next quarter of a century, | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
or you can recognise that the Liberal Democrats can prevent that | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
inevitability. That means you, it means us, together, together. We | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
must fight to keep Britain open, tolerant and united together. The | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
Liberal Democrats must be the real voice of opposition. Together, we | :32:51. | :32:52. | |
must win. Thank you. STUDIO: Tim Farron finishes his | :32:53. | :33:05. | |
second address as lead tore the Liberal Democrats Annual Conference. | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
He spoke for just over 45 minutes under 50, he said he was convinced | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
that despite the referendum, the UK should stay in the EU. He felt a | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
sense oaf bereavement when the result of the referendum on the 23rd | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
came through. He wants another referendum, once and if a deal a | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
done and he says that if the Tories claim we have too many referendums, | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
his answer is, you started it, to the Tories. There was a particularly | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
passionate part of his speech when he spoke about his experience on the | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
island of less boss and Greece, as the Syrian refugees were being | :33:44. | :33:53. | |
washed ashore -- -- Lesbos. There was a clear implication that Britain | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
should be doing more, particularly taking in more child refugees | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
fleeing Syria. Big chunk of the speech on the National Health | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
Service, indeed he wants a national health and care service yet to work | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
out how to pay for that, but it's a work in progress and they are | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
looking at various ways of taxing it. He's making his way through the | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
hall now, getting applause from the party faithful and the odd hug. I | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
said earlier nobody wants to hug Mr Farron, but of course that's only | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
true outside the Lib Dem hall, plenty of the faithle happy to hug. | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
He said the Lib Dems were a free market party which raised a few | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
eyebrows. Nobody's sure what that means. He also said this was a | :34:37. | :34:42. | |
country in chaos, again it's not quite clear what he means bicals | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
yous. He did say, probably in a pitch to mod Ralls Labour voters or | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
even MPs that although he'd been against Tony Blair on the Iraq war | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
and other things, he admired a number of the domestic reforms that | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
Mr Blair had done -- Moderals. There was praise for Tony Blair as regards | :35:04. | :35:06. | |
that, probably the only time Mr Blair will get any praise in this | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
Party Conference season of 2016. He said he wanted to work with other | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
parties, but he'd attempted that during the referendum and Mr Corbyn | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
had pushed him aside, couldn't find time to meet him. He talked about | :35:23. | :35:34. | |
doing a Trudeau which means you lead the party and go straight into being | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
a party of Government, which is what Trudeau Canadians have done, the | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
Canadian Liberals have been long experienced in modern times of | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
forming majority Governments which is not the case for the Liberal | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
Democrats in modern times. He then went on to target a number of Tory | :35:52. | :36:02. | |
seats. He Polly is still with us. What did you make of all that? You | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
got a really strong sense of Tim as a human being. He's a nice guy, | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
filled with emotion when talking about refugees, we heard a lot about | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
his background growing up in Preston in Lancashire about his nan, | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
grandpa, and he was clearly trying to communicate the sense that, he's | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
somebody you can trust, who is very, very likeable and that's pretty | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
absent actually amongst the other party's leaderships. He also went | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
out of his way to say that he understood. He talked about going to | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
this church in Preston where most of the people there had voted to leave | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
the European Union. He understood and he wanted, although he didn't | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
agree with them on that, he wanted to speak more for them. But it | :36:44. | :36:48. | |
wasn't quite clear which way he would do that. There is an identity | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
politics here that he's trying to communicate with those groups with. | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
He is a white working class northern bloke and he, you know, is trying to | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
build that narrative. He's trying to pull together a coalition here. As | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
you said, he's talked about being a free market leader, trying to pull | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
people who're disappointed by the Conservatives having now backing | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
Brexit away from the Conservative Party, trying to draw people away | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
from the Labour Party by talking about how much he respects some of | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
the Blair legacy and trying to reach into the working class northern vote | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
that the great disenfranchised people that we know backed Brexit. | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
He's identify add coalition of people that, if you can unite them, | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
will become a powerful electoral force. It involves the old Lib Dem | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
trick of trying to face both ways at once, that you are trying to get | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
disillusioned working class northern voters, probably Labour voters, you | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
are going to try to get Tory votes to win Tory seats, so you mentioned | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
the free market, the national health to try and get the northern Labour | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
votes and you are going to try to get other Labour votes in the south. | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
You are facing a number of ways. I mean he talked about the need for a | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
national health and care service and that would involve more tax. Yes. | :38:08. | :38:13. | |
But then he talks about being a free market party. What position did he | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
take today that was free market? Well, he talked about the importance | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
of free tread and the importance of remaining open to the European Union | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
and to other countries and making sure that we were able to grow as an | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
economy. But that is it, just free trade? Well, I think that's the most | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
relevant question when we are thinking about economic growth at | :38:35. | :38:37. | |
the moment given the context of Brexit. It makes sense to talk about | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
our stance on trade. Are the Lib Dems in favour of the TTIP deal with | :38:42. | :38:48. | |
the United States? I think it's a complicated deal. It's very much on | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
the rocks. Lots of Lib Dems have backed it, though we have also | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
talked about the need for scrutiny and a lot of detailed things | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
including protection for the NHS to make sure that our taxpayer funded | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
NHS isn't threatened. This comparison with the Canadians, | :39:06. | :39:12. | |
with Mr Trudeau, if you know anything about Canadian politics, it | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
doesn't hold, does it? I'm married to a Canadian. You will know it's | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
not right though. We were discussing whether Justin Trudeau is handsome | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
or not. He's not my taste. What I was meaning was, Trudeau first of | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
all, is a famous name in Canadian politics. That's true. Mr Trudeau's | :39:32. | :39:40. | |
party had been in power for big chunks of the post-war period. It | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
was one of the major parties of Government or of opposition, that's | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
not true of the Liberal Democrats. It is tr that Mr Trudeau's party | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
went into bad times, but nothing like the bad times the Lib Dems | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
faced, down to eight seats. As I say, if you know anything about | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
Canadian politics, the comparison doesn't hold up? As Tim said in his | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
speech, he knows that's incredibly ambitious. It's possible the dice | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
will fall that way and there will be an opportunity for complete | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
reversal. Under what circumstances would that happen? Never say never | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
in British politics, I never thought Brexit could happen and look what | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
happened to Labour in Scotland. It was surprising to see an entirely | :40:26. | :40:32. | |
dominated Labour. So the Lib Dems are going to replace the | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
Conservatives in the same way as the SNP has replaced Labour? I'm saying | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
there are opportunity force the Lib Demes to grow, but let's be clear, | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
what Tim said was, he knows that the Trudeau model is ambitious and what | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
he's looking for is steady growth like Ashdown, perhaps doubling or | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
trebling representations at the next election and hoping to grow from | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
there. He was very passionate about the | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
Syrian refugees, particularly the child refugees, he thinks we should | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
do more. Do we have any idea what his policy on immigration is? If t | :41:07. | :41:16. | |
European Union remaining free to Europe and being very open to | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
refugees, wanting to open up. Refugees, as you know, is not an | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
immigration policy, refugees is a different category, there's moral | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
and legal obligations on refugees which I think is what you were | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
saying we should meet. But on immigration, do we know what the Lib | :41:36. | :41:38. | |
Dem policy is? On Europe, I think it's pretty clear that the Lib Dems | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
would continue to back free movement. So no change there? No | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
change there. And when it comes to... And on non-EU? Lib Dems have | :41:46. | :41:53. | |
looked at the details of the policies the Conservatives have | :41:54. | :41:56. | |
implemented, including for example on allowing spouses to come and | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
consider that those are in fact too Draconian and if they are replicated | :42:03. | :42:08. | |
for EU migrants in a Brexit environment, they could be | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
incredibly damaging. Just to finish up on this, since he said he wanted | :42:14. | :42:17. | |
to speak particularly for the people in this church which he seemed to be | :42:18. | :42:22. | |
implying were northern working class people who'd voted against the EU or | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
for whom immigration is a huge issue, his response in speaking for | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
#24e78 them is to continue with the existing policy of free movement and | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
to be more liberal than we currently are on non-EU immigration. In what | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
way is that speaking for them? Lots of the concern about immigration is | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
associated with pressure on Public Services. When you talk to people | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
about it. Tim's making a big pitch for major investment in the NHS. So | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
not changing the numbers, they could grow? No, but making sure that the | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
Public Services grow to meet demand in a way that I think they haven't | :43:00. | :43:01. | |
been able to. OK. | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
We're joined now from Brighton by the Lib Dem president, Sal Brinton. | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Give us your thoughts on the speech. Hi, | :43:13. | :43:20. | |
Jo. It was inspirational. Tim has actually found a really strong voice | :43:21. | :43:23. | |
about the role of the Liberal Democrats in the future, the place | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
of the Liberal Democrats in politics today and absolutely been clear | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
that, as Labour leave the place of opposition and the centre ground, | :43:33. | :43:35. | |
that's exactly the place that we are going to take. Right. What makes you | :43:36. | :43:41. | |
or Tim Farron think that the Liberal Democrats can be the official | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
opposition with just eight MPs? Because our eight MPs are pulling an | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
enormous amount of weight and the real problem, Jo, is not what we are | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
doing, but people like Norman Lamb are making considerable impacts. | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
He's well respected in the NHS on issues throughout Parliament and the | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
wider world. It's about Labour abdicating their responsibility. | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
There is a vacuum. Tim is saying, we may be few in number in the Commons | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
we are much larger in the country and we are going to step up to the | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
challenge. Who is listening to you? We are going to fight. But who is | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
listening? Which voters are listening and in what way is Tim | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
Farron cutting through to the wider public? | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
We are beginning to see that already. We have by-election | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
victories, increase in membership sinks the referendum with people | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
making it clear they have come to Tim and the Liberal Democrats | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
because we are open, pro-European, we are tolerant and what's more, we | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
are probably the only united party around at the moment. Although | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Labour can boast the same sort of increase in numbers if not more in | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
terms of membership. How long do you think it would take for you to get | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
back to the position you were in in terms of numbers of MPs pre-2015? | :44:53. | :44:59. | |
Anything is possible at future elections. Of course anything is | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
possible, but... Tim was making the point, we are not going to jump | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
straight back up into the high 60s, but we can look at dozens, possibly | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
more, if other parties fracture. By 2020? More importantly, as Tim | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
says... Jo, if we are the only party who is going to be fighting for | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
investment in the NHS, for tackling this real problem about the division | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
between health and social care that is absolutely dire at the moment, | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
nobody else is stepping into that field. We have been talking about | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
investment. Norman Lamb's commission is absolutely going to give a clear | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
agenda about how it's going to happen, the Liberal Democrats are | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
leading it and we will, if necessary, show where the extra | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
investment's got to come to make that happen. You think that | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
policy... The Liberal Democrats know that's a major issue for members of | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
public. The current state of the NHS is absolutely vital to most voters | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
and we are the only people who have a plan. OK, you have got evidence to | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
show that the public is broadly in favour of paying higher taxes, | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
Norman Lamb couldn't give me the exact figure but certainly a penny | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
on national insurance to pay for the extra investment? | :46:17. | :46:20. | |
One of the reasons he couldn't give the exact figure is because the | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
commission hasn't concluded its work. When that is done, what we are | :46:26. | :46:29. | |
saying is, if it requires extra investment and if it has to come | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
through taxation, we as the Liberal Democrats need to make that | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
investment. What's more, we hear from an awful lot of people that | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
they would be prepared to pay a bit more in income tax to save the NHS. | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
Tim Farron said in his speech that we are the free market, pro-trade | :46:48. | :46:54. | |
business party now, are you advocating free trade in the NHS? | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
No, not in the sense that the Conservatives mean. The free market | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
was Tim talking about the single market. One of the great concerns | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
the business world has had since the referendum is the Conservatives just | :47:10. | :47:12. | |
walking away from the interests of business and the market in this | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
country. It's very interesting that a senior businesswoman, Nicola | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
Horlick, has joined the Liberal Democrats following Liam Fox's | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
comments about business people being fat and lazy. We are very clear that | :47:29. | :47:34. | |
Britain's businesses have benefited enormously from the single market | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
and already trade elsewhere in the world and we will continue to | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
support them in that. We recognise the importance to business to | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
continuing trading in the European Union. You say you are the | :47:46. | :47:50. | |
pro-business party and Tim Farron said the Prime Minister and | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
conservative government has plunged our country into chaos. What the | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
chaos, where is it? The chaos of, will we have a single market or not? | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
Will we have free movement of labour or not? That's not chaos, it's a | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
discussion. No, it's chaos. We have a large international firms saying | :48:13. | :48:16. | |
that if they are not sure if there will be a signal market, that they | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
want to retain businesses in the UK. Japanese car manufacturers, | :48:22. | :48:25. | |
businesses in the city saying they are considering moving. That is the | :48:26. | :48:31. | |
chaos now. But there are no figures or economic data, how does the chaos | :48:32. | :48:38. | |
manifested itself there? It's too early for economic data, it's only | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
three months since we left, however, we are continuing to get employment | :48:44. | :48:47. | |
and productivity data. The moment to have large manufacturing industry | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
saying that if Britain is going to remove itself from Europe, we will | :48:52. | :48:55. | |
move our European HQ from Britain to Europe, that means we are likely to | :48:56. | :49:02. | |
lose hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country. Until the | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
manufacturers see exactly what the Brexit plans are from the | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
government, but they are beginning to warm us up there is a problem. We | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
are the only party still fighting for the single market and to have a | :49:15. | :49:19. | |
place in it. It's vital for our business and foreign businesses | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
based here to have access to that European single market. Tim Farron | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
said it was the referendum and Conservative short termism that has | :49:28. | :49:31. | |
landed the country in the chaos he talks about, but you want a second | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
referendum, despite the fact you now think they are a bad idea. Part of | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
the problem with the last referendum was that there was no detail on what | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
was exactly going to happen. As we know, there were a lot of untruths | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
and a lot of people that were absolutely nothing to do with the | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
referendum used by the Leave campaign. Yes, people voted to | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
leave, and Tim and the Lib Dems are clear we do not want a rerun that | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
referendum. We have agreed as a country to get on the train to | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
depart, but we do not yet have a destination. Tim is right that the | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
detail of that destination is critical. It may be that there are a | :50:14. | :50:17. | |
large number of people in this country who will say the cost is too | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
high if we lose hundreds of thousands of jobs because we will | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
lose the single market, but we don't know because Theresa May will not | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
tell us. Sal Brinton in Brighton, thank you. A big day for the Liberal | :50:29. | :50:34. | |
Democrats in Brighton. An even bigger day in New York taking place. | :50:35. | :50:45. | |
The UN and world leaders are gathering for their annual September | :50:46. | :50:53. | |
gathering. Barack Obama has been speaking. Theresa May will also be | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
speaking for the first time to the United Nations. | :50:57. | :50:58. | |
Let's talk to the BBC's deputy political editor Jon Pienaar, | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
he's at the United Nations in New York. | :51:02. | :51:04. | |
Bring us up to date over what's happening. The Prime Minister, in a | :51:05. | :51:13. | |
couple of hours' time, will be on the floor of the UN General | :51:14. | :51:16. | |
Assembly, making her debut speech. The message of the speech will be | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
the message that has been pressed home in meeting after meeting with | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
President and Prime Minister and President and Prime Minister. It's | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
like diplomatic speed dating. The thrust of this is the Prime Minister | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
coming here to tell world leaders that because Britain is leaving the | :51:34. | :51:35. | |
European Union doesn't mean Britain is giving up its role as a global | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
player. Britain still meeting its target for international aid, still | :51:42. | :51:45. | |
meeting targets for spending on defence. It still playing a role as | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
a big global player. The question mark over how that carries on after | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
Brexit will be on everyone's mind. I'm sure there will be great | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
interest among global leaders and their advisers around them over what | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
Brexit will actually mean. They will be asking Theresa May about that. I | :52:06. | :52:10. | |
suppose that she hasn't been able to tell us, and I assume therefore that | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
she doesn't have much new to tell them. She may have an idea of where | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
this is going, but she can't know. This will be hammered out over | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
countless meetings with other leaders at prime ministerial and | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
cabinet and official level. Endless meetings at that level between | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
endless countries, not just in the European Union, on how trading deals | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
will work in the future. It's a horse trading game. It's barely even | :52:40. | :52:44. | |
begun. We know at this stage it will not be easy. We also know there are | :52:45. | :52:49. | |
quite powerful voices in the European Union who believe it | :52:50. | :52:52. | |
shouldn't be made easier, it should be made as hard as possible. The | :52:53. | :52:57. | |
Slovakian leader has said it should be as painful for Britain as | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
possible to send the message to the rest of the European Union, that | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
it's cold out there. When the Prime Minister comes into the cheap seats | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
at the back of the plane, this was put to her, and she said they would | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
get a deal they would all signed. We don't know what that deal will be | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
like. That idea is in Theresa May's mind. Still a lot of haggling to go. | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
The theme of this particular General Assembly has a lot to do with the | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
number of refugees in the world, displaced peoples, millions of | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
people on the move in various parts of the world, not least in the | :53:36. | :53:38. | |
Middle East, heading into Greece and Italy. Mrs May's message on that is | :53:39. | :53:44. | |
quite, how can I put it, unsympathetic? I wouldn't | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
necessarily say unsympathetic. There was something of a lesson about what | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
Theresa May was saying when she was addressing the wider world and | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
setting out how she sees the migration crisis. For one thing, | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
asserting every country including Britain has the right to police and | :54:03. | :54:06. | |
control its own border. It was like saying, hands off, we will deal with | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
our own borders, don't tell us who to let in. They don't need to be | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
told it's a very serious crisis, about 65 million people displaced | :54:17. | :54:23. | |
from their homes, more than the population of the UK. A lot of | :54:24. | :54:25. | |
countries out there like Germany and others, are feeling the sharp end of | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
this. Theresa May saying that we have to to get together to work out | :54:30. | :54:34. | |
a plan, but perhaps spending money on the borders of conflict zones, | :54:35. | :54:37. | |
not letting them sweep across Europe. If we let them move, let | :54:38. | :54:41. | |
them go to the first country and stay there. A lot of people might | :54:42. | :54:45. | |
like that to be the case, but some might not take kindly to being | :54:46. | :54:51. | |
lectured by Britain. John Pienaar outside the United Nations in New | :54:52. | :54:52. | |
York. Thank you for joining us. Now, what did activists | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
watching Tim Farron's speech Most of the delegates have rushed | :54:57. | :55:10. | |
off to the train station to get home, but three of them promised to | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
talk to me. Carroll, Stephen and Ellie. Karen, what did you make of | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
Tim Farron's speech? I think it's one of the best he has made as | :55:21. | :55:25. | |
leader. It was passionate and to the point. Very, very good. Stephen, | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
what did you make of the big appeal to moderate Labour voters, praising | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
Tony Blair. Did that sit comfortably with you? It felt very comfortable. | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
A large portion of the population voted for Tony Blair in the glory | :55:42. | :55:46. | |
days of 1997 and have felt abandoned. Labour has left the field | :55:47. | :55:49. | |
and talking to themselves and there is an open field out their words | :55:50. | :55:54. | |
voters desperately want an open, tolerant and united party and he | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
gave that speech wonderfully. Everybody feeling positive. Ellie, | :55:59. | :56:03. | |
was there anything in there that appealed to you directly? Tim Farron | :56:04. | :56:07. | |
talked about the NHS and scrapping Cammack sat test that rhyme is good. | :56:08. | :56:12. | |
to you? -- scrapping Sats tests. The way he's defending it, refugees, | :56:13. | :56:29. | |
willing to defend them, and there's a party willing to defend them, that | :56:30. | :56:33. | |
resonated with me. A message that Tim Farron trying to get out about | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
having a second referendum. Is that a difficult message, because people | :56:39. | :56:41. | |
might feel it is not respectful of the way people voted in the first | :56:42. | :56:45. | |
place. It's a difficult situation, I accept, but we have to be proud that | :56:46. | :56:49. | |
our party has believed it's in the best interest of the country. 48% of | :56:50. | :56:57. | |
the population voted for it. The 52% were lied to and we need to be very | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
clear that it's in the interests of our country to stay in and we will | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
stand for that. As you go away from the conference after your day here, | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
membership is up and everybody feels pretty positive, there is still a | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
big challenge. It's a big challenge for the party but I'm sure it's one | :57:16. | :57:19. | |
Tim and the rest of the party will rise to. Membership going up so high | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
was amazing after the referendum. It shows that people are looking to the | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
Liberal Democrats to take lead. Thank you for staying. We better let | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
these people rush off to the trains to get home. Would it be fair on | :57:33. | :57:39. | |
domestic policy to sum up Tim Farron's speech that he and the Lib | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
Dems are now the heirs to Tony Blair? I think that's what he's | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
trying to say. The great stuff that Tony Blair and the 97 Labour | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
government did on workers' rights and public service investment, we | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
need some of that again. Will that cut through? Is it a rich seam to | :57:57. | :58:04. | |
mine? I think it works as a particular message in the | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
Westminster bubble. Tim is trying to communicate something to Labour MPs | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
and activists who are feeling disenfranchised by Corbynistas. At | :58:15. | :58:16. | |
some point for the centre-left to win again it has to stop talking | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
about Tony Blair and talk about the future. Thank you to Polly for | :58:23. | :58:29. | |
talking to us. This might be overshadowed by breaking news in the | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
United States, a number of reports saying Angelina Jolie filing for | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
divorce from Brad Pitt. I can see from the look in your eyes it's a | :58:38. | :58:41. | |
big story. That's all from our coverage of Tim Farron's party | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
conference speech. We will be back at midday tomorrow. I will be back | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
on Thursday. Join us if you can. We better check on that story. It's | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
interesting. You see clips of a pile of bricks | :58:53. | :59:03. | |
causing anger in a gallery and a pickled shark | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
floating in a tank. | :59:08. | :59:11. |