Browse content similar to 17/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
With the Calais Jungle camp due to be shut down within days, | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
more unaccompanied child migrants arrive in Britain, | :00:44. | :00:45. | |
but are we taking too long and taking in too few children? | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
They're said to be overwhelmingly in favour of Remain | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
but how far will the unelected Lords dare to go | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
in being seen to frustrate the progress of Brexit? | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
We'll ask the new man in charge of the Upper House. | :01:00. | :01:05. | |
Has the feminist movement empowered women | :01:06. | :01:06. | |
And can a good logo get you elected, or help you lose? | :01:07. | :01:19. | |
And with us for the whole of the programme today | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
is former Labour Leadership contender Angela Eagle | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
and the former Culture Secretary Maria Miller, | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
who now chairs the Commons' Women and Equalities Committee. | :01:30. | :01:36. | |
First this morning, the Independent Inquiry | :01:37. | :01:37. | |
into Child Sexual Abuse is now on its fourth inquiry chair, | :01:38. | :01:40. | |
as well as suffering several resignations from its legal team. | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
But it is the inquiry's third chair, Dame Lowell Goddard, | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
that's attracting most interest at the moment | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
with the Home Affairs Select Committee | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
about to hold a hearing on the circumstances | :01:53. | :01:53. | |
surrounding her appointment and dismissal. | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
But are they poised to call Theresa May, | :01:58. | :02:07. | |
who was Home Secretary at the time, to give evidence? | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
Let's talk to our assistant political editor, Norman Smith. | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
Can you just remind us about the circumstances of her departure? She | :02:16. | :02:24. | |
left early August, the Home Secretary Amber red saying she left | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
because of the distant she had to travel back to New Zealand. She was | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
feeling lonely. Suggesting a personal reasons that led to her | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
resignation. We now know very serious allegations have been made | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
about the way she managed the inquiry and whether she lost the | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
confidence of leading members of the inquiry team and also allegations | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
about her attitude, particularly claims she had made racist remarks. | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
What the MPs want to try to understand is, if those kind of | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
allegations were being made, where any of them relayed to ministers and | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
in particular to the Home Secretary at the time, Theresa May? Speaking | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
to MPs on the committee, they take a view it is inconceivable that the | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
Home Office at least was not aware of the deep concerns within the | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
inquiry because members of the Home Office had been succumbed to the | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
inquiry and they say it is not credible that sort of information | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
would not have been known about. When you talk to Downing Street this | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
morning, they said the first alarm bells were not sounded until 29th of | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
July. That was a week or so before Justice Gothard resigned. In other | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
words, Theresa May was not alerted. That is not the only aspect of this | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
which concerns MPs regarding the Prime Minister. There is also an | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
appetite to understand why the inquiry was set up as it was with | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
this huge remix to investigate pretty much the world and his wife, | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
allegations of abuse at Westminster, local government, the military, the | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
police, it you name it. A lot roads come back to Theresa May. Is there | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
now a suggestion that it will be scaled back, the scope of this | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
enquiry? That is highly likely. There is a view it is out of control | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
in terms of the extent of lines of enquiry it now has two pursue. There | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
are? About how you pull all of that together in a reasonable time frame. | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
I suspect you will hear from Alexis Jay later saying she is going to | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
pair the inquiry back. It does raise questions about why it was setup in | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
this way in the first place and in the hall management of this enquiry. | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
It was originally set up by Theresa May as a panel. It had its remit | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
extended to become a full-blown enquiry. There are fundamental | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
questions about the Prime Minister's handling this enquiry. She is likely | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
to be called, is she? Or will she accept? I would say it is doubtful | :04:58. | :05:05. | |
she will accept that Amber Rudd has responsibility for the department. I | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
am struggling but I cannot remember a Prime Minister coming before the | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
departmental select committee. They appear before the Liaison Committee | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
bike cannot remember one appearing before a departmental committee and | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
I imagine they would not want to go down that road. Presumably that | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
might be the time they can compose some of these questions. | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
Should she appeared before the committee bearing in mind she was | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
Home Secretary when these serious questions and allegations began to | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
surface? It is right that the select committee should do its job and | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
scrutinise civil servants and ministers. It is Amber Rudd who is | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
in position now and the Liaison Committee has ample opportunity to | :05:47. | :05:49. | |
press the Prime Minister on this if we choose to so do at a later date. | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
I think they should not let this overshadow the important work the | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
inquiry is doing for victims and my worry is this is somewhat | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
sidetracking people from that important work and the work of | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
Alexis Jay. I'm glad she will be talking later to get the focus of | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
people back on that. You say you are worried about it sidetracking what | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
has already been a difficult enquiry to get going due to resignations. We | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
have heard, or it has been reported, the permanent Secretary to the Home | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
Office implied they already knew about allegations about her conduct | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
went to reason may was Home Secretary. Surely the onus is on her | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
to respond. It was an Independent enquiry. There were civil servants | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
from the Home Office are conjured there and there was a close link. I | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
think I will be listening very closely to what the civil servants | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
have to say, when they knew it will stop it is important not to lose | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
sight of the inquiry. Should it be scaled back? It is clearly in | :06:56. | :07:04. | |
trouble, onto its fourth head. The trouble is about the judge from New | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
Zealand and I hope she agrees to give evidence about what actually | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
happened. I think we are in danger of losing the point of setting it up | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
in the first place, which was to try to deal with some of the cover-ups | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
that have been going on about child sexual abuse and many lives being | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
ruined. It has clearly got completely out of control. It is too | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
wide-ranging in its rebate for any person to be able to do it. It goes | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
back 40-50 years. It is a difficult ask for anyone. The Chan in the | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
inquiry of chairs has demonstrated that. You do think it should be more | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
targeted? They need to see how they can begin to attack the remade. They | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
are making no progress and time is going on. No one is satisfied. All | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
good reasons, Theresa May wanted to have something done about this. I | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
think it has spiralled out of all control and is not fit for purpose. | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
They need to take another look at it but they must also look at the | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
expenditure of public money. The judge had half ?1 million in | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
recompense. They will look at that in the select committee, when pay? | :08:20. | :08:22. | |
Do you think it has been well handled? It has not made the | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
progress we would have hoped. Whose fault is that? Whether it is to do | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
with the terms of the inquiry or the people, ultimately victims will be | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
saying it has not made the progress it should have had. I hope Alexis | :08:34. | :08:40. | |
Jay will say it has made a clear way forward. It is not right to say it | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
has made no progress. Darting to identify the sorts of inquiries and | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
13 inquiries that should be undertaken. The scale of what is | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
being done is very ambitious. I have been listening carefully to what | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
Alexis Jay has to say. If it will be restricted in some way, in what way | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
would you like to see it more limited? I would like to see victims | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
having clear answers about how these sorts of abuse allegations were | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
dealt with in the past. Whether the inquiry needs to have the breadth of | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
scope across the public and private sector. I will be listening | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
carefully to that later on today if Alexis Jay makes a statement. By | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
focusing the inquiry in a less ambitious way across all of those | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
sectors, we might be able to get results sooner. Are you confident | :09:31. | :09:39. | |
Alexis Jay can do the job any better than her predecessors? I hope so. We | :09:40. | :09:41. | |
can but hope. Otherwise we will get into a round of ongoing problems. A | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
lot of the victims would say that what they want is to create a | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
circumstance where people cannot be subjected to the kind of horrors | :09:51. | :09:53. | |
they were subjected to in the past again in the future. It is also | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
importantly tried to learn lessons about how child abuse is dealt with, | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
how the authorities deal with it, and how we can best protect victims. | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
That is the key point for everyone concerned. Do you think learning the | :10:09. | :10:12. | |
lessons, the historical lessons, because there is a history of being | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
examined about child abuse, the thing that can still help today? | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
Absolutely. We will be letting victims stand we did not make sure | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
recommendations coming out of the inquiry do absolutely get embedded | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
in all of that. Let's leave it there. | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
Now, the Calais Jungle, the make-shift migrant camp | :10:33. | :10:34. | |
is due to be cleared in the next week or so. | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
Amongst the estimated 10,000 people in the camps | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
are thought to be between 600 and 900 unaccompanied refugees. | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
The British Government has agreed to take some of those | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
but are they acting too slowly and taking too few children? | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
are due to arrive in the UK today from Calais. | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
They include Afghans, Syrians and stateless Bidun children | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
They are the first group of minors to be brought over | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
by the Home Office under a fast-track registration scheme. | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
The Dublin Regulation allows children to seek UK asylum | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
because they have close relatives living here. | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
The UK has also made a wider commitment to taking | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
in unaccompanied children caught up in the migrant crisis. | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
The Lord Dubs Amendment to the Immigration Act which passed | :11:28. | :11:29. | |
requires the Government to "arrange transport and support" | :11:30. | :11:40. | |
for unaccompanied refugee children - whether family in UK or not - | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
requires the Government to arrange transport and support | :11:49. | :11:50. | |
for unaccompanied refugee children from Europe, | :11:51. | :11:52. | |
regardless of whether they have family here. | :11:53. | :11:53. | |
And Home Secretary Amber Rudd said last week that it would be | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
"a good result" if the UK ended up taking 300 unaccompanied | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
But the Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
warned of "foot dragging" over accepting children from the Calais | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
Mr Williams said "the clock is ticking" because the camp | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
is expected to be demolished next week and the UK had a "moral | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
Maria Miller, why is it taking so long to get unaccompanied child | :12:12. | :12:19. | |
refugees with relatives in this country to come to the UK? It has | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
been a bureaucratic system and been very problematic in getting speedy | :12:25. | :12:33. | |
resolutions. More than 5000 Syrian refugees have come to this country | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
since 2012. The systems are in place. Again I do not think we | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
should forget the Government policy of supporting refugees on the Syrian | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
border is on the campus is something which we have done and proudly done. | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
That is, as you say, a two pronged attack. Let's focus on the | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
unaccompanied children and the commitments that have been made. | :12:59. | :13:07. | |
Have there been tracking of feet? -- has there been? The numbers have | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
been so huge that invariably the bureaucratic system has got in the | :13:13. | :13:17. | |
way. More than 100 children have already come over. The Home | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
Secretary has said she wants to see many more come over. Local | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
authorities are there, willing and ready to help these children, many | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
of whom have significant needs. What numbers are you talking about? The | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
Home Secretary has talked about 300 children coming over. I think that | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
is Britain playing its part, which is what we want to do, without | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
acting as a magnet for people traffickers who have used and abused | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
young people, dragging them to Calais. We can see some of the | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
pictures of children. There have been reports suggesting that not all | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
of the people who say they are children actually are and they are | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
trying to get some sort of refuge here. The Government has said, and | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
Amber Rudd has said it will be a good result if the UK manages to | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
take 300. Local councils had to deal with child refugees when they come | :14:13. | :14:15. | |
over here and not all of them said they can afford it. By definition, | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
the Government has agreed the dubs amendment. You want to ensure that | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
children who have gone through a very traumatic time when they are | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
reunited with relatives are properly looked after. I think it is for the | :14:31. | :14:33. | |
Government to ensure there is adequate resources available for | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
local authorities, many of whom have had huge cuts in their budgets, to | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
be able to ensure those children are properly integrated. Of course, the | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
longer they have been in those terrible conditions, the more needy | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
they are likely to be when they come over here. If the Government | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
accepted the Dubs Amendment, I think it should have been faster and more | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
effective in taking those children. If the Calais camp closes within a | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
week, we have had months and months since this amendment has passed and | :15:10. | :15:12. | |
hundreds of children have come over. Even on the figure of 300, less than | :15:13. | :15:19. | |
a week to integrate and find the other 200. There have to be a lot | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
more work done and more quickly to get these children over safely. I | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
agree you voted against the original amendment stating the UK should take | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
in 3000 unaccompanied child refugees. | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
My position right from the start has been that we should be supporting | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
people in the camps nearer to Syria, any countries are not doing that. | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
Britain is, we have stepped up to our obligations. Individuals, | :15:48. | :15:48. | |
particularly young people in the camps near Syria are often the most | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
disabled, the most challenged, they cannot pay people traffickers to | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
take them on board. Britain has the right strategy in that respect. We | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
remember where the amendment came from, it was because it was on the | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
Kindertransport, during the period of the Nazis, when ordinary | :16:07. | :16:12. | |
community groups, not the government, brought Jordan over. And | :16:13. | :16:22. | |
we know from that period that many of the children who came over have | :16:23. | :16:24. | |
made an enormous contribution to British life afterwards, so I think | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
that we should get on and get this sorted and not leave those children | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
in the danger they are in now. Do you think there is a moral | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
obligation, as Ryan Williams has said, to take the children, I take | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
your point, it should be in the camps, the focus, but the Dubs | :16:41. | :16:50. | |
Amendment was eventually passed. -- Rowan Williams. Absolutely there is | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
a moral obligation, that is what Parliament has acted in this way, | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
with a very specific objective in our sights. You didn't want to take | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
all of them. It comes down to the fact that we need to be so careful | :17:03. | :17:05. | |
that the policies we took in place do not encourage people trafficking | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
in the ways... People trafficking is going on now, large numbers of | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
people are paying huge amounts of money to cross the Mediterranean in | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
boat, many people are being exploited, we need to use the forces | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
of law and order to help to deal with some of those trafficking | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
routes. It is not a reason not to help people who are in dire need. | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
You admit that there is a bureaucratic process to go through, | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
claims of having relatives in this country have got to be investigated | :17:33. | :17:39. | |
otherwise everyone would say, no matter their tragic circumstances. | :17:40. | :17:42. | |
Of course but it could have been done faster. Has Jeremy Corbyn | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
offered strong enough position on the refugees, should he have been | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
pushing harder? It has pushed pretty hard, he has made it clear that we | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
should be doing more, and the opposition have voted to support the | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
Dubs Amendment, I think it is clear that there is a humanist airing | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
crisis going on across Europe and we must play our part, as one of the | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
European nations and one of the leading nations in the United | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
Nations, to do the right thing. I have to say, I think Maria Miller is | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
right, about the fantastic support that this government has been giving | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
on the borders, of Syria, but that does not mean that we cannot do | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
something to help people in dire need in Europe now, and we should be | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
playing our part. We are playing our part. We make sure those children | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
come to the UK. As well as the bureaucracy, Winnie to make sure | :18:38. | :18:39. | |
those children, when they arrive, have this right support in place, | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
many have significant needs. -- we need to make sure. Dozens of | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
children have gone missing while waiting for their claims to be | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
processed, according to aid agencies, what do you say to that? | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
That is an appalling situation for us to be facing. Whether that is the | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
French government or the British government or indeed the whole of | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
the new, it needs to be looked into very carefully. Finally, Francois | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
Hollande has promised to set up reception and orientation centres, | :19:09. | :19:10. | |
the camps will be cleared, and that will deal with and process asylum | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
seekers, do you really think that is going to be the end of watching | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
hordes of migrants and refugees trying to get onto lorries to come | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
to Britain? The whole of Europe has to deal with the dispersal of those | :19:23. | :19:32. | |
refugees arriving in great numbers. How should it be done? It should be | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
done with co-operation with some of the international agreement that are | :19:36. | :19:38. | |
being made, and it should be done more effectively. But we know that | :19:39. | :19:39. | |
this is controversial within countries, as we see from the rise | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
of the populace. Are you optimistic that the plan of Francois Hollande | :19:43. | :19:44. | |
for the new reception centres is going to work? We have got to wish | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
it the best and we have got to hope it works because the alternative is | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
people really living in fields, like they are at the moment, in Calais, | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
risking their lives to get on lorries. That is not what we want to | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
see in the centre of Europe. Now, remember it wasn't | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
about his leadership and he wouldn't resign if he lost, | :20:06. | :20:06. | |
but in the end David Cameron resigned as Prime Minister and then | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
as an MP in the wake The by-election prompted | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
by his departure is on Thursday and our Ellie's been to his former | :20:14. | :20:16. | |
constituency of Witney to test The Oxfordshire | :20:17. | :20:18. | |
constituency of Witney. A place known for | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
blankets, airbases, and, until recently, | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
the Prime Minister. because he didn't want to be | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
a distraction to Theresa May. Some of his former constituents | :20:30. | :20:41. | |
are slightly annoyed by the distraction | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
of a by-election. What were your thoughts | :20:44. | :20:45. | |
on David Cameron standing down? I thought he had said several times | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
he wouldn't do that. I did understand the reason | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
he did stand down. I don't think he had | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
the choice, to be honest. It's a shame because he's | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
been doing a good job. What are your thoughts | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
on David Cameron standing down? Don't get me on that | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
subject, David Cameron. When David Cameron was re-elected | :21:02. | :21:03. | |
here in the general election last year, | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
he increased his majority There is no doubt it | :21:06. | :21:07. | |
will be an uphill struggle for the other parties | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
hoping to overcome that. There are 14 candidates | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
in total hoping to they're in a similar | :21:13. | :21:14. | |
position, or worse? Councillor Duncan Enright is the | :21:15. | :21:22. | |
Labour candidate. He stood against David Cameron | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
in the general election. With David Cameron's personal | :21:26. | :21:28. | |
vote out of the way, I think there's a real chance | :21:29. | :21:30. | |
for something to happen here. I'm the most famous candidate | :21:31. | :21:32. | |
on the ballot paper in Witney. I may not be famous | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
across the country How are the Liberal Democrats doing | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
at the moment? Liz Leffman, is standing | :21:41. | :21:48. | |
for the Lib Dems. Quite a number of people in this | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
constituency, 57%, particularly people who | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
voted Conservative in the past, are really upset that they've got | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
somebody, the Conservative candidate, | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
who voted to leave. Always nice to have a professional | :22:03. | :22:04. | |
wardrobe dresser. Dickie Bird, who served | :22:05. | :22:06. | |
in the British Army for 20 With possibly a cooling down | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
on Brexit from the Government, there's a possibility of 30,000 | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
votes there that can reinforce and keep the Prime Minister's toes | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
to the fire to make sure that Brexit is Brexit | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
and we do actually leave the EU. You know my name? | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
Great. His name is Larry Sanders, | :22:28. | :22:28. | |
the Green candidate. If he seems a bit familiar, | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
it's because his brother was the US presidential | :22:32. | :22:34. | |
hopeful, Bernie Sanders. I'm part of a world movement | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
that we can get past the last 30 years of perhaps shifting | :22:39. | :22:41. | |
money from the rich from My brother Bernie started it | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
and I want to finish it. It's a real pleasure | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
to meet you both. Barrister Robert Courts is | :22:49. | :22:50. | |
hoping to follow in David Cameron's | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
Conservative footsteps. There's no such thing | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
as a safe seat. I'll be getting out and meeting | :22:58. | :22:59. | |
as many people as I possibly can in every town and listening | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
to their concerns, and explaining why I think I'd be the best | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
person to represent them. This will be Theresa May's first | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
electoral test as Prime Minister, which is why she's not | :23:09. | :23:10. | |
taking any chances and was out with one | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
of her old friends this weekend, By-elections in safe seats sometimes | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
have a knack of throwing Witney goes to the | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
polls on Thursday. Ellie Price there, | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
and a full list of candidates standing in Thursday's | :23:29. | :23:38. | |
by-election is on the website. Now, he's got the most | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
comfortable seat in parliament, he's a Lord but had to be elected | :23:42. | :23:43. | |
to his position. Former Conservative Cabinet | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
Minister Lord Fowler took up his position last week | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
after winning a vote amongst fellow peers, | :23:51. | :23:52. | |
and joins us in the studio. Congratulations again, although I | :23:53. | :24:05. | |
think we spoke at the time, what is the role of the Lord's post EU | :24:06. | :24:08. | |
referendum? The role of the Lord's post-referendum is exact to what it | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
has been before, what we are about is scrutinising every piece of | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
legislation that comes through, we do not have a guillotine process in | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
the Lords, which, in the Commons, I was in the Commons 31 years, often | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
means that really quite important issues are not given the attention | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
that they might be. And so we go through every piece of legislation, | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
and try to make constructive changes, if changes are needed to | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
it. How will that work when it comes to legislation regarding Brexit, the | :24:41. | :24:50. | |
laws, as you say, are not meant to frustrate the will of the Commons, | :24:51. | :24:52. | |
they will vote against manifesto commitments by the government. -- | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
the Lords. The EU referendum result is different. We recognise, first | :24:55. | :24:57. | |
thing, we recognise the primacy of the House of Commons. We don't wish | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
to challenge that. But what it sometimes means is that there are | :25:03. | :25:07. | |
disagreements between the two houses, or fiercely. We have an | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
example of that last week, when, I think, the government lost about six | :25:13. | :25:19. | |
divisions. That does not mean to say that those losses were actually | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
going to legislation, because there will be compromises in between. You | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
previously said that the Prime Minister the Commons should not | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
leave the unchallenged so should they be able to block Brexit | :25:34. | :25:40. | |
negotiation? As a general principle, certainly, I think that the Lords, | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
at times, can vote down something that has come from the Commons, you | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
have just been spending a lot of time, quite rightly, on health Dubs | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
Amendment, well, if it had not been for the Lords, we would not have had | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
alt Dubs Amendment, it did not get through the Commons. -- on Alf Dubs | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
Amendment. Should the Lords be able to block through the terms of Brexit | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
negotiation. I am going to give you the same reply, I am the House of | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
Lords, I am neutral, I am not... I'm asking for your view, in terms of | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
advising peers what to do, how did you vote on the EU referendum? | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
McGrath I voted to remain. When it comes to decisions for example on | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
the approval of triggering Article 50, the great repeal Bill. The | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Conservative peer, Baroness Patience Wheatcroft said that approval could | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
be withheld and the Lords might actually delay things, is she right? | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
I don't know, and I think that the position is at the moment with | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
Article 50 there is a legal case, as you well know, on that. On the great | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
repeal Bill, I'm not sure if that is going to be the title, but on the | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
great repeal Bill, it will be like any other piece of legislation, we | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
will go through it and there will be proposals and the government and the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Lords and the Commons can go through it and make amendments. If | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
amendments are necessary. I'm sure there going to be debates... Where | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
we end up is anyone's guess. It is about the role, the great repeal | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
Bill was not a manifesto commitment, it couldn't be, so in that case, | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
could, as Patience Wheatcroft said, could the Lords frustrate the | :27:31. | :27:32. | |
government on that issue? Frustrate is putting it in a rather emotive | :27:33. | :27:40. | |
way. De Laet yet? Stop it? I think that the Lords could make amendments | :27:41. | :27:49. | |
to the bill. -- delay it. They can make amendments to the bill in the | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
same way that they make amendments to any other Bill, whether that is | :27:53. | :27:58. | |
the end of the matter is quite another decision. The Commons can | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
look at it, they can say whether they degree all they want some | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
compromise or they reject. Let's say that one of the amendments of the | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
great repeal Bill, we have been told by government ministers that is a | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
chance for both elected members -- elected members and the house of | :28:15. | :28:21. | |
lords to discuss this, what if one of the amendments was to discuss | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
that there should not be a stance on the government of coming out of the | :28:25. | :28:26. | |
single market, would that be in your view within the role of the House of | :28:27. | :28:29. | |
Lords? I don't know, that would have to be something for the clerk of the | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
parliaments to decide. As I say, you are putting me into a position that | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
I don't actually occupy. I cannot be an advocate on this, I am meant to | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
hold the balance, hold the consensus. It is rather new for me! | :28:45. | :28:54. | |
Broadly speaking, would that be within the remit that you would find | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
expendable -- acceptable. If it is in order, any thing that comes in | :28:59. | :29:09. | |
order. Do you see a situation whereby the House of Lords could | :29:10. | :29:12. | |
change of frustrate the democratic will of the people? On the great | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
repeal Bill, that comes at the end of the process, what we are talking | :29:16. | :29:19. | |
about is whether Parliament should be allowed to scrutinise, both | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
houses, should be allowed to scrutinise the way that the | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
government intends to interpret the instruction from the British people | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
in the EU referendum to leave. What I said in the debate we had on this, | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
in the Commons last Wednesday, was that there has clearly been a vote | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
to leave the European Union expressed in a referendum but that | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
does not mean that we should leave it in the most damaging way. I think | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
that... You mean by leaving the single market? By having a very hard | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
Brexiteer with no access... Relying upon... -- very hard Brexit. There | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
has not been any vocation of not having access, a tariff... They are | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
not sharing with us any of their thoughts on how they are trying to | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
do it at the moment and I think that it is important for Parliament to | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
have a say and be able to scrutinise the government in how they are going | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
about the process. Do you believe there should be a vote ahead of | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
Article 50, for the Commons, ahead of next March, for the terms of the | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
negotiation? I think it is really important that the government sets | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
out in a White Paper what they are thinking about in terms of the | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
future. If there was a vote and they voted against the negotiating stance | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
or coming out of the single market, surely that would be frustrating | :30:44. | :30:45. | |
what people said in the EU referendum. This is done normally, | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
this used to be done any time any minister... And I have represented | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
the Council of ministers for the UK, whenever you would go to talk about | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
a directive, you would have scrutiny from Parliament saying that you | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
could operate within certain contexts. Nothing new about this. | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
Would you like to see a vote before Article 50 is triggered? | :31:06. | :31:12. | |
Should there be a vote? We should let the Government continue with the | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
negotiation and I do not think there should be a vote before the | :31:20. | :31:27. | |
triggering of article 16. Mike Watson has said grammar schools are | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
dead. -- Article 50. The house of Lords would be within their right to | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
oppose that policy. You say oppose it. Remember, we never defeat | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
anything on second reading. What one is looking at is the bill. It had | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
not come to us from the House of Commons. I don't know what happens | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
in the hands of Commons, let alone in the House of Lords. We will | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
obviously does that will be scrutinised. -- the House of | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
Commons. You have to sit in the chair for about five minutes only to | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
know there is a lot of feeling on grammar schools. We do take these | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
decisions. On tax credits, we took the decision. We were much | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
criticised, the House of Lords, for taking that. When it went actively | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
House of Commons, and we basically said, look at this, think again, | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
they thought again and nothing else was heard about the tax credits | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
proposal. It is a process in action. I do know if that will be what | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
happens with grammar schools. What I do know is with the educationalists | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
and the others, grammar school people like myself, there will be | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
quite a lot of feeling on this and quite a lot of experience. I hope | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
you are looking forward to it. I am, greatly. | :32:54. | :32:55. | |
Now, our guest of the day, Maria Miller, chairs the newly | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
formed Women and Equalities select committee. | :32:59. | :32:59. | |
But with a woman Prime Minister at the helm for a second time | :33:00. | :33:02. | |
and girls now outperforming boys at school, is the work | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
Well, Laura Perrins of the website, The Conservative Woman, | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
Here's her Soapbox on why she thinks feminism is making women | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
Modern feminism ignores what women actually want, which is a balance | :33:13. | :33:24. | |
Feminism has been hijacked by a narrow elite who dominate | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
Lots of women have far more traditional views | :33:31. | :33:38. | |
than they are permitted to admit, which is one of the reasons | :33:39. | :33:40. | |
we set up the website, the Conservative Woman. | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
We used to have a reader who left comments telling us that today's | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
generation of young women were kick ass and confident and going to take | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
over the world, so we had better get used to it. | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
What feminism has produced is a generation of whining, | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
moaning women, who, despite unparalleled | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
opportunity and wealth, view themselves as victims. | :34:05. | :34:10. | |
After at least a decade of feminists claiming victimhood and mounting | :34:11. | :34:21. | |
an extremely effective public campaign to serve their interests, | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
girls now outperform boys all the way through | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
Young women significantly outnumber young men at university and they out | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
earn young man after graduation until the age of about 30. | :34:37. | :34:49. | |
A recent report revealed that 38% of women were worried | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
22% felt depressed, and 55% were worried for their future. | :34:55. | :35:06. | |
The modern 20-something woman has inherited the fruits | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
of the poisonous, feminist ideology that seeks to divide the sexes | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
And Laura joins us now have already started the conversation. Listening | :35:15. | :35:34. | |
to you, the sisterhood will be crying out and saying, you are a | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
traitor to the cause and how on earth is the medicine to be blamed | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
for women being Moni and miserable today? First of all, the first | :35:43. | :35:48. | |
statistic is that only 7% of women identify as feminists. Medium | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
politics is dominated by the agenda when ordinary women do not identify | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
with it at all. Only 7%. The problem with modern feminism is that it is | :35:58. | :36:04. | |
elitist, it in fantasises women by often second-guessing motives and it | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
also, sadly in some cases, can make women genuinely unhappy. It is not | :36:10. | :36:13. | |
those women I feel sorry for those women, and they should be supported. | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
One reason I believe they are unhappy is because of an elitist | :36:18. | :36:26. | |
agenda, a 1% feminist agenda, pushed by people like Maria Miller. What do | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
you say to that, that it is an elitist issue? The menace is not | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
something that has anything to do with the lives of ordinary women. | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
The evidence we took in our select committee and our report to women at | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
work and the payback -- pay gap would suggest that Laura is entirely | :36:45. | :36:51. | |
wrong. The biggest problem hitting women are those on the lowest of | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
pains. When in sectors like caring and hospitality, they will continue | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
to have problems getting the sort of wages they can live on and the sort | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
of career progression that perhaps other women take for granted. Some | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
women in this country, very privileged women, have seen a great | :37:11. | :37:15. | |
deal of change and benefit art of the feminist agenda. We want to make | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
sure that it is everyone in who gets more access to equality in the | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
future. Isn't you'll is really to do with middle-class women? You cite | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
the fact that girls are doing better than boys at school and women are | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
outperforming men throughout education. That is the new | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
generation coming through and you have a problem with middle-class | :37:37. | :37:43. | |
women who use they may be miserable and moany as a result of feminism | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
but that is not entirely fair. Certainly not. The issue of the | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
gender pay gap has been misrepresented in the media can do | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
it ignores first low pay especially on how families work as a unit. The | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies says women and 18% less per hour than | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
men. There is nothing misrepresented about that. That does not take into | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
account part-time work. I have never heard such rubbish. | :38:11. | :38:31. | |
That is because you do not read about it. What is the rubbish? | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
Demolition of the creed of liberation and equality for women. | :38:37. | :38:43. | |
It has not caused women to become whining and unsatisfied. What we | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
need is to see that women ought to be in allowed to take their places | :38:47. | :38:53. | |
on equal terms with men in our society. We are a very long way from | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
that. The pay gap is 30%. Once you are past 30. Why does it go down? | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
Why does it widen when you are past 30, because most of the duties to | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
have and look after children and disproportionately on women. We have | :39:11. | :39:17. | |
not organised our society. They want to do that. I am not saying they do | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
not. We need to organise our society so we care for children and are more | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
child centres and when women do that they do not suffer a career | :39:29. | :39:36. | |
disadvantage. -- child centred. Men and women contribute more. That is a | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
change that feminism brings. When women want to come back into the | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
workplace, are you saying they are not unfairly paid compare it to male | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
counterparts and they are able to do the jobs they did before? -- | :39:52. | :39:59. | |
compared to male counterparts. They are not discriminated against once | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
they come back. There is no evidence for that. Let Laura finished. It has | :40:03. | :40:10. | |
been looked into. The Institute of economic affairs has looked into | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
theirs. Women's hour, let's take women's hour. They had a survey out | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
last week. Just let me finish this point. Of the women who work | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
full-time, 56% said they would like to spend more time at home and 1.6% | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
said they wanted to work. That is not the point we were talking about. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
Let's go back to being discriminated against in terms of pay. You have | :40:36. | :40:43. | |
found different evidence. Let's listen to the evidence from Maria | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
Miller on the Pagan. Our select MIDI took extensive evidence on this. -- | :40:48. | :40:56. | |
our select committee. Women over 30 could not go back into the sort of | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
jobs they had before they had children and could not get flexible | :41:02. | :41:04. | |
working enabling them to do the sorts of things they needed to. What | :41:05. | :41:09. | |
we found very clearly was women did want to go back into work, did want | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
to balance children and family commitments and their work lives. | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
Too many employers are not making that available. Britain is suffering | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
as a result. That is why business needs to deal with it. This woman | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
has blamed the existence of Donald Trump on feminism. This is | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
ludicrous. There were male chauvinist pigs long before feminism | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
existed. We have got a liberation movement of women fighting for our | :41:38. | :41:43. | |
equality, not more, fighting for our equality, to deal with issues like | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
that. I won't sit here and be told by some of the better fight for | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
equality causes male chauvinism. It certainly does not. Are you saying | :41:51. | :41:57. | |
the absence of feminism means women would be happier today? I am saying | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
they should not pitting men against women. Just because you do not like | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
somebody's and to view does not mean you can ignore the evidence that is | :42:09. | :42:15. | |
out there. There is conflicting evidence, isn't there? Conflicting | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
because it has been picked out by the medium political elite. It is an | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
important issue. Flexible working and part-time working is what women | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
want. Top-down government initiatives will actually have a | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
chilling effect on employers offering that. I seriously ask you | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
to reconsider those kinds of proposals. It does not work. There | :42:39. | :42:47. | |
are women on the right, like this, who say that if you give women equal | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
pay it would stop women being allowed into the workplace. If you | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
give women maternity leave... This is nonsense. Isn't it the point that | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
the women who want to stay home and look after their children, they | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
don't want to enter the workplace necessarily. Feminism is about | :43:06. | :43:11. | |
choices and creating a society that enables women to stay at home and | :43:12. | :43:14. | |
look after their children if they want or to go out and have a career | :43:15. | :43:19. | |
and children if they want. Laura does not represent the views of the | :43:20. | :43:22. | |
Conservative Party and I think her website could be misinterpreted in | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
that way. The Conservative Party is absolutely focused on making sure | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
that women can do their best in terms of going into work by getting | :43:31. | :43:33. | |
jobs they want, and balancing that in the way they choose to balance | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
it. I think Laura needs to look at the facts. Interestingly, Labour | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
women MPs have always numbered more highly than other women MPs. In | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
terms of Prime Minister is, of course, they have had two female | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
Prime Minister. In a way, reaching the top has been easier or more | :43:54. | :43:57. | |
possible under the Tories and Labour. That is undeniably true. We | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
will carry on fighting. It is interesting to bearing in mind the | :44:05. | :44:08. | |
different approaches, it has not happened. I absolutely accept that | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
point. Will fight and carry on fighting the rest of my life to make | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
sure we do as well in terms of female Prime Minister 's than the | :44:18. | :44:19. | |
Conservative Party. Thank you. Now, looking ahead, let's see | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
what else is coming up this week. At some point this week | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
the government is expected, finally, to back a third | :44:26. | :44:27. | |
runway at Heathrow. That was the recommendation | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
of the Airport Commission last year, but with reports of up to 60 | :44:31. | :44:36. | |
backbenchers being opposed to the move, the pressure | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
is on the government to come up Today Ukip's National | :44:44. | :44:46. | |
Executive Committee will meet to discuss the process | :44:47. | :44:48. | |
for electing a new leader. This follows a tumultous few weeks | :44:49. | :44:50. | |
for the party, which ended in a fracas at the European Parliament | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
that saw leadership hopeful On Tuesday the Home | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
Affairs Select Committee will hear from the new chair of | :44:57. | :44:58. | |
the inquiry into child sexual abuse. The inquiry has suffered a number | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
of setbacks, and Professor Alexis Jay is the fourth | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
person to have chaired it. On Thursday voters in Witney, | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
David Cameron's former constituency, There's also another | :45:13. | :45:14. | |
by-election in Batley and Spen, which was triggered after the death | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
of Labour MP Jo Cox, but the main parties | :45:20. | :45:22. | |
will not be contesting that. And Friday will mark Theresa May's | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
first 100 days in office. But while the new PM has emphasised | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
that "Brexit means Brexit", more and more questions are being asked | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
about her government's plan We're joined now in the studio | :45:38. | :45:40. | |
by Kevin Maguire, associate editor of the Daily Mirror, | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
and the Daily Mail's Andrew Pierce. I knew that he would gate-crash...! | :45:46. | :46:00. | |
Is that true? LAUGHTER I couldn't possibly comment. Talking | :46:01. | :46:02. | |
about Philip Hammond and reported splits and tensions in the cabinet, | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
is Philip Hammond the Chancellor a remoaner? He is, and it is visible | :46:10. | :46:16. | |
servants, lukewarm Brexit, soft Brexit, whatever you want to call | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
it, the Treasury is against it and it does not take long for | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
institution of the Treasury to get the chance link to its claws, | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
somebody in the Treasury is leaking stuff. | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
Leaking stuff from government, surely not, that never happens(!) | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
has this row been overblown, talk of Philip Hammond's role as a remoaner? | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
He is looking at the figures and can see the realities of what Brexit | :46:43. | :46:46. | |
might mean and he is concerned for the British economy, next year 's | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
growth figures have been downgraded because of it, we have seen the | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
powerful, hearing all the investors, not just banks but big manufacturers | :46:54. | :46:59. | |
as well warning that they may cut investment, waiting to see how | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
Brexit may work out, and it is not just the Treasury riffing, he has | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
not fallen into the clutches of the Treasury, everybody is briefing, and | :47:10. | :47:16. | |
labour, the governing party is what really counts, right across the | :47:17. | :47:18. | |
governing party, there is a huge differences on where we go. If | :47:19. | :47:21. | |
Philip Hammond is raising concerns, legitimately, in cabinet, Andrew | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
Pierce, and saying he wants to delay migration curbs because it would | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
harm business, isn't that his role? Is that really trying to subvert the | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
democratic will of the people? He is entitled to raise his objections, | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
and resignations, but the Prime Minister made it absolutely clear | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
that free movement of people is one of her red lines, she wants curbs on | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
immigration, he is trying to slow that down, it is fine to slow it | :47:45. | :47:51. | |
down, I think he is resisting the will of the government. Will he get | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
anywhere? Probably, the referendum was won by those who want to quit, | :47:55. | :48:02. | |
Brexiteers, and... Theresa May has said that she has got to deliver | :48:03. | :48:04. | |
Brexit, and to her, that does mean what she certainly implied, that | :48:05. | :48:07. | |
freedom of movement will have two and, and we will not be under the | :48:08. | :48:10. | |
jurisdiction of the European court of justice. She always says Brexit | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
means Brexit but she does not fill in the gap afterwards, she never | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
says what it means, that is where the battle is, ending free movement | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
does not mean ending migration, we will still have a relationship, | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
people will come in, people will go and work from Britain in the rest of | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
the European Union, these attitudes must be had, these arguments must be | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
aired, to pretend everyone is United is a myth. In the Downing Street | :48:40. | :48:41. | |
briefing there was a vote of confidence from the Prime Minister | :48:42. | :48:45. | |
in Philip Hammond, you would expect that, but also... Also LAUGHTER | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
Also number ten make clear that she, Theresa May, once all the ministers | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
working together. That is easier said than done. -- oncewants. You | :48:55. | :49:06. | |
work with Philip Hammond in cabinet, is the one to resist and slow down | :49:07. | :49:08. | |
the progress of Brexit if he believes it is in the best interest | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
of the economy? It is not in the best interest of anybody to slow | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
down Brexit, businesses want certainty and they want the business | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
to be as quick as possible. I don't think the Treasury, or Philip | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
Hammond, who has a good business background, would like to slow that | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
down unnecessarily. We have to come to the right conclusion here, make | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
sure we do not simply leave the YouTube accepts their roles as they | :49:33. | :49:39. | |
are currently. We need to see a change in terms of freedom of | :49:40. | :49:41. | |
movement, we need to... We need to see the laws that affect this | :49:42. | :49:44. | |
country made in this country, that is what people voted for. Do you | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
think Philip Hammond is signed up to delivering Grexit? Every member of | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
the cabinet must be signed up to delivering Brexit, because that is | :49:54. | :49:56. | |
what the British people have voted for. -- Brexit. When it comes to | :49:57. | :50:07. | |
migration, it will be difficult to hit the net migration target if it | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
is delayed. The two do not go together. Theresa May missed it | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
consistently throughout her entire time. We were in the EU, then. I bet | :50:15. | :50:20. | |
that she will continue in the Prime Minister not least because more | :50:21. | :50:23. | |
people come into Britain from outside the European Union than | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
within it, if immigration is your big thing, you should cut off the | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
world instead of Europe! It is about sovereignty and Britain's parliament | :50:35. | :50:36. | |
deciding which laws it has, on migration and labour, what is wrong | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
with the government saying, limiting the influx of cheap unskilled labour | :50:41. | :50:46. | |
from Eastern Europe, we don't need it. Sovereignty of Parliament and | :50:47. | :50:50. | |
yet Theresa May is frightened of giving Parliament votes Andre Gray | :50:51. | :50:54. | |
Article 50 and the terms. Moving on to something else that we have been | :50:55. | :51:02. | |
waiting for a decision on, the airport expansion, Heathrow, looks | :51:03. | :51:04. | |
as if there is another short pause on that announcement, why is that? | :51:05. | :51:07. | |
We have been waiting for 15 years, Frankie, what's another week! But, | :51:08. | :51:15. | |
we still think it will be Heathrow, they will be sorting out Boris | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
Johnson, he once said that he would sit in front of the bulldozer to | :51:19. | :51:21. | |
stop it, perhaps trying to prevent a by-election in Richmond with Zac | :51:22. | :51:24. | |
Goldsmith full. The Shadow Transport Secretary has written a piece saying | :51:25. | :51:30. | |
that a third runway is fine? Most Labour MPs I believe back Heathrow | :51:31. | :51:33. | |
expansion, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell they do not, and so the | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
tried and trusted way of the new Labour Party, they will have a free | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
vote and they will go that way! LAUGHTER | :51:41. | :51:48. | |
Where are you on it? I think Heathrow is probably the best at the | :51:49. | :51:50. | |
moment, not least because it connects the Northern economy with | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
the new gateway that the extra runway will bring about. But I also | :51:56. | :52:01. | |
think that we have got to ensure that the air pollution that would | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
result is dealt with appropriately, and the environmental safeguards are | :52:07. | :52:09. | |
good enough. Jeremy Corbyn is reluctant to support the idea of a | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
third runway and John McDowell, Shadow Chancellor, is dead against | :52:14. | :52:21. | |
it, always has been. What happen to leadership? -- John McDonnell. It is | :52:22. | :52:25. | |
clear to me that we need to make a decision on airport expansion for | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
the good of the economy, the economy is being threatened by other things, | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
not least the shock of Brexit. Without a united front on the Labour | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
leadership? There is probably a majority in the Commons for Heathrow | :52:39. | :52:39. | |
but time will tell. It is hopeless that the opposition | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
cannot form... To be honest, when David Cameron was in opposition... | :52:47. | :52:52. | |
When David Cameron was in opposition he had free votes on all sorts of | :52:53. | :53:00. | |
things and he took the credit. On Heathrow, Labour was for it, the | :53:01. | :53:02. | |
Conservatives were against it, conservatives for it, Labour | :53:03. | :53:07. | |
against. Flip-flop. Maybe a free vote is the only way forward! To | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
people who never free flip-flop on issues and their principles, thank | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
you very much. We reported earlier on the by-election in Witney and we | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
have our very own list of candidates standing in the by-election, that is | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
on-screen now: you can find that list on the BBC website as well. | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
Now, how do you like your political logos? | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
Red flag? Red rose? | :53:35. | :53:35. | |
Maybe you're more of a bird or oak tree person? | :53:36. | :53:37. | |
But what makes a good political logo and what do they say | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
about the parties and politicians they represent? | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
One of our guests has firsthand experience of this | :53:43. | :53:44. | |
after Angela Eagle recently had to devise a logo for her Labour | :53:45. | :53:47. | |
We'll be asking her about that in a moment, | :53:48. | :53:50. | |
but first here's a look at some of the new political logos | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
And, here to cast his eye over all those logos | :53:54. | :54:47. | |
is Benedict Pringle, the founder of | :54:48. | :54:49. | |
Why do they matter? They matter because they differentiate you from | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
the other candidates standing, and they tell the people looking at your | :54:58. | :55:01. | |
campaign a little bit about you, a visual short cut to the candidates | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
values, to their personas, and so, look, a good logo is not going to | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
win you the election but it is not a bad place to spot -- start. Look at | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
this, what did you think of this? I thought the positioning was very | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
strong, boring real leadership is the point of divide between her and | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, very sensible. I thought, however, the general look | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
and feel of it for me did not feel particularly authentic to Angela. | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
That is my signature, that is me! LAUGHTER | :55:36. | :55:40. | |
Is it a bit behind the signature? Well, I have played chess for my | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
country, and when I was sat there, with the little flag, doing my | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
chess, I was as proud as proud and they, as a lot of those Olympians | :55:48. | :55:51. | |
will be marching through what I hope is a wonderful procession. That is a | :55:52. | :55:58. | |
flag... It is the UK flag. How long did you think about this? I'm sure | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
you are proud of being a chess champion, but... It was a long time | :56:03. | :56:06. | |
ago! What was going through your mind when you devised this? Well, it | :56:07. | :56:10. | |
was done very quickly, because obviously, you have a load of other | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
things to do and you do not have a megabudget. It is a signature, and a | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
quick message, that is all you can hope to get. Why the colour pink? | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
Well, it is not really paint, it is pinkish. -- not really pink. Owen | :56:27. | :56:37. | |
Smith, stood the leadership, we don't have time to get into a debate | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
about colour, we had this in the past. What about this one? This | :56:41. | :56:49. | |
is... A bit boring... He just wanted to avoid slipping on a banana skin. | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
I don't think he gained or lost anything from it. Jeremy Corbyn's... | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
This was his second logo, of his first leadership campaign, a | :57:01. | :57:05. | |
commentator on my website commented that maybe there is a hidden meaning | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
in this logo, does it say up with the left and down with the right? | :57:10. | :57:14. | |
Well! You would have to have thought about that...! Is that what it said | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
to you? I had never thought of it in that way... Perfectly reasonable | :57:21. | :57:29. | |
design. Keeping very safe there are! Sadiq Khan, news logo for Mayor of | :57:30. | :57:32. | |
London, did you like this? This was a logo, contemporary, bright, | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
colourful. Nice graphic of the Thames, who doesn't like rivers(!) | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
it is politically neutral, as well. Willing to cross the divide, that is | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
always sensible. Do you think there was a lot of money spent on that? I | :57:46. | :57:48. | |
know that that was done in-house at the Labour Party, so not that much | :57:49. | :57:54. | |
money was spent on it. So not always about money, you don't have to spend | :57:55. | :57:57. | |
a fortune. Very often you have to have a clear idea about what you | :57:58. | :58:02. | |
want to say, and ideas are free. You have some ideas for Angela Eagle, | :58:03. | :58:07. | |
here you go. Here you go... A gift! Symbol of leadership and strength, | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
going back to Roman times, a gift of a name! Looks a bit liberal... And a | :58:12. | :58:20. | |
kind of Dove peace thing going on, so you represent leadership, | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
strength, unity... Maria Miller, we will not leave you out, we have one | :58:25. | :58:27. | |
for you. I thought, if the time comes... Influence of Hillary in | :58:28. | :58:36. | |
there! The only way is up, good strapline if your party is in times | :58:37. | :58:40. | |
of trouble. And you have your theme song there as well! Looks a bit | :58:41. | :58:45. | |
industrial, I would go for something softer, the Conservative Party route | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
that you can move from the torch to the tree and actually make the | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
change really smoothly. She has been thinking about it, standing for the | :58:53. | :58:56. | |
next leadership(!) and give very much for coming in, and for your | :58:57. | :59:03. | |
ideas. -- thank you very much for coming in. | :59:04. | :59:05. | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories | :59:06. | :59:12. |