17/10/2016 Daily Politics


17/10/2016

Jo Coburn is joined by former culture secretary Maria Miller and former shadow business secretary Angela Eagle for the latest news and debate from Westminster.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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With the Calais Jungle camp due to be shut down within days,

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more unaccompanied child migrants arrive in Britain,

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but are we taking too long and taking in too few children?

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They're said to be overwhelmingly in favour of Remain

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but how far will the unelected Lords dare to go

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in being seen to frustrate the progress of Brexit?

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We'll ask the new man in charge of the Upper House.

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Has the feminist movement empowered women

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And can a good logo get you elected, or help you lose?

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And with us for the whole of the programme today

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is former Labour Leadership contender Angela Eagle

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and the former Culture Secretary Maria Miller,

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who now chairs the Commons' Women and Equalities Committee.

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First this morning, the Independent Inquiry

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into Child Sexual Abuse is now on its fourth inquiry chair,

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as well as suffering several resignations from its legal team.

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But it is the inquiry's third chair, Dame Lowell Goddard,

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that's attracting most interest at the moment

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with the Home Affairs Select Committee

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about to hold a hearing on the circumstances

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surrounding her appointment and dismissal.

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But are they poised to call Theresa May,

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who was Home Secretary at the time, to give evidence?

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Let's talk to our assistant political editor, Norman Smith.

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Can you just remind us about the circumstances of her departure? She

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left early August, the Home Secretary Amber red saying she left

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because of the distant she had to travel back to New Zealand. She was

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feeling lonely. Suggesting a personal reasons that led to her

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resignation. We now know very serious allegations have been made

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about the way she managed the inquiry and whether she lost the

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confidence of leading members of the inquiry team and also allegations

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about her attitude, particularly claims she had made racist remarks.

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What the MPs want to try to understand is, if those kind of

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allegations were being made, where any of them relayed to ministers and

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in particular to the Home Secretary at the time, Theresa May? Speaking

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to MPs on the committee, they take a view it is inconceivable that the

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Home Office at least was not aware of the deep concerns within the

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inquiry because members of the Home Office had been succumbed to the

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inquiry and they say it is not credible that sort of information

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would not have been known about. When you talk to Downing Street this

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morning, they said the first alarm bells were not sounded until 29th of

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July. That was a week or so before Justice Gothard resigned. In other

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words, Theresa May was not alerted. That is not the only aspect of this

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which concerns MPs regarding the Prime Minister. There is also an

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appetite to understand why the inquiry was set up as it was with

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this huge remix to investigate pretty much the world and his wife,

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allegations of abuse at Westminster, local government, the military, the

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police, it you name it. A lot roads come back to Theresa May. Is there

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now a suggestion that it will be scaled back, the scope of this

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enquiry? That is highly likely. There is a view it is out of control

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in terms of the extent of lines of enquiry it now has two pursue. There

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are? About how you pull all of that together in a reasonable time frame.

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I suspect you will hear from Alexis Jay later saying she is going to

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pair the inquiry back. It does raise questions about why it was setup in

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this way in the first place and in the hall management of this enquiry.

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It was originally set up by Theresa May as a panel. It had its remit

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extended to become a full-blown enquiry. There are fundamental

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questions about the Prime Minister's handling this enquiry. She is likely

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to be called, is she? Or will she accept? I would say it is doubtful

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she will accept that Amber Rudd has responsibility for the department. I

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am struggling but I cannot remember a Prime Minister coming before the

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departmental select committee. They appear before the Liaison Committee

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bike cannot remember one appearing before a departmental committee and

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I imagine they would not want to go down that road. Presumably that

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might be the time they can compose some of these questions.

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Should she appeared before the committee bearing in mind she was

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Home Secretary when these serious questions and allegations began to

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surface? It is right that the select committee should do its job and

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scrutinise civil servants and ministers. It is Amber Rudd who is

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in position now and the Liaison Committee has ample opportunity to

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press the Prime Minister on this if we choose to so do at a later date.

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I think they should not let this overshadow the important work the

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inquiry is doing for victims and my worry is this is somewhat

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sidetracking people from that important work and the work of

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Alexis Jay. I'm glad she will be talking later to get the focus of

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people back on that. You say you are worried about it sidetracking what

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has already been a difficult enquiry to get going due to resignations. We

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have heard, or it has been reported, the permanent Secretary to the Home

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Office implied they already knew about allegations about her conduct

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went to reason may was Home Secretary. Surely the onus is on her

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to respond. It was an Independent enquiry. There were civil servants

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from the Home Office are conjured there and there was a close link. I

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think I will be listening very closely to what the civil servants

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have to say, when they knew it will stop it is important not to lose

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sight of the inquiry. Should it be scaled back? It is clearly in

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trouble, onto its fourth head. The trouble is about the judge from New

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Zealand and I hope she agrees to give evidence about what actually

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happened. I think we are in danger of losing the point of setting it up

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in the first place, which was to try to deal with some of the cover-ups

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that have been going on about child sexual abuse and many lives being

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ruined. It has clearly got completely out of control. It is too

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wide-ranging in its rebate for any person to be able to do it. It goes

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back 40-50 years. It is a difficult ask for anyone. The Chan in the

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inquiry of chairs has demonstrated that. You do think it should be more

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targeted? They need to see how they can begin to attack the remade. They

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are making no progress and time is going on. No one is satisfied. All

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good reasons, Theresa May wanted to have something done about this. I

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think it has spiralled out of all control and is not fit for purpose.

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They need to take another look at it but they must also look at the

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expenditure of public money. The judge had half ?1 million in

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recompense. They will look at that in the select committee, when pay?

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Do you think it has been well handled? It has not made the

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progress we would have hoped. Whose fault is that? Whether it is to do

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with the terms of the inquiry or the people, ultimately victims will be

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saying it has not made the progress it should have had. I hope Alexis

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Jay will say it has made a clear way forward. It is not right to say it

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has made no progress. Darting to identify the sorts of inquiries and

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13 inquiries that should be undertaken. The scale of what is

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being done is very ambitious. I have been listening carefully to what

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Alexis Jay has to say. If it will be restricted in some way, in what way

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would you like to see it more limited? I would like to see victims

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having clear answers about how these sorts of abuse allegations were

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dealt with in the past. Whether the inquiry needs to have the breadth of

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scope across the public and private sector. I will be listening

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carefully to that later on today if Alexis Jay makes a statement. By

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focusing the inquiry in a less ambitious way across all of those

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sectors, we might be able to get results sooner. Are you confident

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Alexis Jay can do the job any better than her predecessors? I hope so. We

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can but hope. Otherwise we will get into a round of ongoing problems. A

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lot of the victims would say that what they want is to create a

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circumstance where people cannot be subjected to the kind of horrors

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they were subjected to in the past again in the future. It is also

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importantly tried to learn lessons about how child abuse is dealt with,

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how the authorities deal with it, and how we can best protect victims.

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That is the key point for everyone concerned. Do you think learning the

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lessons, the historical lessons, because there is a history of being

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examined about child abuse, the thing that can still help today?

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Absolutely. We will be letting victims stand we did not make sure

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recommendations coming out of the inquiry do absolutely get embedded

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in all of that. Let's leave it there.

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Now, the Calais Jungle, the make-shift migrant camp

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is due to be cleared in the next week or so.

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Amongst the estimated 10,000 people in the camps

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are thought to be between 600 and 900 unaccompanied refugees.

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The British Government has agreed to take some of those

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but are they acting too slowly and taking too few children?

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are due to arrive in the UK today from Calais.

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They include Afghans, Syrians and stateless Bidun children

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They are the first group of minors to be brought over

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by the Home Office under a fast-track registration scheme.

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The Dublin Regulation allows children to seek UK asylum

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because they have close relatives living here.

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The UK has also made a wider commitment to taking

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in unaccompanied children caught up in the migrant crisis.

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The Lord Dubs Amendment to the Immigration Act which passed

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requires the Government to "arrange transport and support"

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for unaccompanied refugee children - whether family in UK or not -

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requires the Government to arrange transport and support

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for unaccompanied refugee children from Europe,

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regardless of whether they have family here.

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And Home Secretary Amber Rudd said last week that it would be

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"a good result" if the UK ended up taking 300 unaccompanied

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But the Former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams has

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warned of "foot dragging" over accepting children from the Calais

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Mr Williams said "the clock is ticking" because the camp

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is expected to be demolished next week and the UK had a "moral

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Maria Miller, why is it taking so long to get unaccompanied child

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refugees with relatives in this country to come to the UK? It has

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been a bureaucratic system and been very problematic in getting speedy

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resolutions. More than 5000 Syrian refugees have come to this country

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since 2012. The systems are in place. Again I do not think we

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should forget the Government policy of supporting refugees on the Syrian

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border is on the campus is something which we have done and proudly done.

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That is, as you say, a two pronged attack. Let's focus on the

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unaccompanied children and the commitments that have been made.

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Have there been tracking of feet? -- has there been? The numbers have

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been so huge that invariably the bureaucratic system has got in the

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way. More than 100 children have already come over. The Home

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Secretary has said she wants to see many more come over. Local

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authorities are there, willing and ready to help these children, many

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of whom have significant needs. What numbers are you talking about? The

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Home Secretary has talked about 300 children coming over. I think that

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is Britain playing its part, which is what we want to do, without

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acting as a magnet for people traffickers who have used and abused

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young people, dragging them to Calais. We can see some of the

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pictures of children. There have been reports suggesting that not all

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of the people who say they are children actually are and they are

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trying to get some sort of refuge here. The Government has said, and

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Amber Rudd has said it will be a good result if the UK manages to

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take 300. Local councils had to deal with child refugees when they come

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over here and not all of them said they can afford it. By definition,

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the Government has agreed the dubs amendment. You want to ensure that

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children who have gone through a very traumatic time when they are

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reunited with relatives are properly looked after. I think it is for the

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Government to ensure there is adequate resources available for

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local authorities, many of whom have had huge cuts in their budgets, to

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be able to ensure those children are properly integrated. Of course, the

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longer they have been in those terrible conditions, the more needy

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they are likely to be when they come over here. If the Government

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accepted the Dubs Amendment, I think it should have been faster and more

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effective in taking those children. If the Calais camp closes within a

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week, we have had months and months since this amendment has passed and

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hundreds of children have come over. Even on the figure of 300, less than

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a week to integrate and find the other 200. There have to be a lot

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more work done and more quickly to get these children over safely. I

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agree you voted against the original amendment stating the UK should take

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in 3000 unaccompanied child refugees.

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My position right from the start has been that we should be supporting

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people in the camps nearer to Syria, any countries are not doing that.

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Britain is, we have stepped up to our obligations. Individuals,

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particularly young people in the camps near Syria are often the most

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disabled, the most challenged, they cannot pay people traffickers to

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take them on board. Britain has the right strategy in that respect. We

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remember where the amendment came from, it was because it was on the

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Kindertransport, during the period of the Nazis, when ordinary

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community groups, not the government, brought Jordan over. And

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we know from that period that many of the children who came over have

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made an enormous contribution to British life afterwards, so I think

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that we should get on and get this sorted and not leave those children

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in the danger they are in now. Do you think there is a moral

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obligation, as Ryan Williams has said, to take the children, I take

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your point, it should be in the camps, the focus, but the Dubs

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Amendment was eventually passed. -- Rowan Williams. Absolutely there is

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a moral obligation, that is what Parliament has acted in this way,

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with a very specific objective in our sights. You didn't want to take

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all of them. It comes down to the fact that we need to be so careful

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that the policies we took in place do not encourage people trafficking

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in the ways... People trafficking is going on now, large numbers of

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people are paying huge amounts of money to cross the Mediterranean in

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boat, many people are being exploited, we need to use the forces

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of law and order to help to deal with some of those trafficking

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routes. It is not a reason not to help people who are in dire need.

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You admit that there is a bureaucratic process to go through,

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claims of having relatives in this country have got to be investigated

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otherwise everyone would say, no matter their tragic circumstances.

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Of course but it could have been done faster. Has Jeremy Corbyn

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offered strong enough position on the refugees, should he have been

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pushing harder? It has pushed pretty hard, he has made it clear that we

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should be doing more, and the opposition have voted to support the

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Dubs Amendment, I think it is clear that there is a humanist airing

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crisis going on across Europe and we must play our part, as one of the

:18:05.:18:07.

European nations and one of the leading nations in the United

:18:08.:18:13.

Nations, to do the right thing. I have to say, I think Maria Miller is

:18:14.:18:17.

right, about the fantastic support that this government has been giving

:18:18.:18:22.

on the borders, of Syria, but that does not mean that we cannot do

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something to help people in dire need in Europe now, and we should be

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playing our part. We are playing our part. We make sure those children

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come to the UK. As well as the bureaucracy, Winnie to make sure

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those children, when they arrive, have this right support in place,

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many have significant needs. -- we need to make sure. Dozens of

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children have gone missing while waiting for their claims to be

:18:48.:18:50.

processed, according to aid agencies, what do you say to that?

:18:51.:18:54.

That is an appalling situation for us to be facing. Whether that is the

:18:55.:18:59.

French government or the British government or indeed the whole of

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the new, it needs to be looked into very carefully. Finally, Francois

:19:03.:19:08.

Hollande has promised to set up reception and orientation centres,

:19:09.:19:10.

the camps will be cleared, and that will deal with and process asylum

:19:11.:19:15.

seekers, do you really think that is going to be the end of watching

:19:16.:19:18.

hordes of migrants and refugees trying to get onto lorries to come

:19:19.:19:22.

to Britain? The whole of Europe has to deal with the dispersal of those

:19:23.:19:32.

refugees arriving in great numbers. How should it be done? It should be

:19:33.:19:35.

done with co-operation with some of the international agreement that are

:19:36.:19:38.

being made, and it should be done more effectively. But we know that

:19:39.:19:39.

this is controversial within countries, as we see from the rise

:19:40.:19:42.

of the populace. Are you optimistic that the plan of Francois Hollande

:19:43.:19:44.

for the new reception centres is going to work? We have got to wish

:19:45.:19:49.

it the best and we have got to hope it works because the alternative is

:19:50.:19:55.

people really living in fields, like they are at the moment, in Calais,

:19:56.:19:58.

risking their lives to get on lorries. That is not what we want to

:19:59.:20:00.

see in the centre of Europe. Now, remember it wasn't

:20:01.:20:05.

about his leadership and he wouldn't resign if he lost,

:20:06.:20:06.

but in the end David Cameron resigned as Prime Minister and then

:20:07.:20:10.

as an MP in the wake The by-election prompted

:20:11.:20:13.

by his departure is on Thursday and our Ellie's been to his former

:20:14.:20:16.

constituency of Witney to test The Oxfordshire

:20:17.:20:18.

constituency of Witney. A place known for

:20:19.:20:21.

blankets, airbases, and, until recently,

:20:22.:20:23.

the Prime Minister. because he didn't want to be

:20:24.:20:29.

a distraction to Theresa May. Some of his former constituents

:20:30.:20:41.

are slightly annoyed by the distraction

:20:42.:20:43.

of a by-election. What were your thoughts

:20:44.:20:45.

on David Cameron standing down? I thought he had said several times

:20:46.:20:47.

he wouldn't do that. I did understand the reason

:20:48.:20:50.

he did stand down. I don't think he had

:20:51.:20:53.

the choice, to be honest. It's a shame because he's

:20:54.:20:56.

been doing a good job. What are your thoughts

:20:57.:20:59.

on David Cameron standing down? Don't get me on that

:21:00.:21:01.

subject, David Cameron. When David Cameron was re-elected

:21:02.:21:03.

here in the general election last year,

:21:04.:21:05.

he increased his majority There is no doubt it

:21:06.:21:07.

will be an uphill struggle for the other parties

:21:08.:21:10.

hoping to overcome that. There are 14 candidates

:21:11.:21:12.

in total hoping to they're in a similar

:21:13.:21:14.

position, or worse? Councillor Duncan Enright is the

:21:15.:21:22.

Labour candidate. He stood against David Cameron

:21:23.:21:25.

in the general election. With David Cameron's personal

:21:26.:21:28.

vote out of the way, I think there's a real chance

:21:29.:21:30.

for something to happen here. I'm the most famous candidate

:21:31.:21:32.

on the ballot paper in Witney. I may not be famous

:21:33.:21:36.

across the country How are the Liberal Democrats doing

:21:37.:21:40.

at the moment? Liz Leffman, is standing

:21:41.:21:48.

for the Lib Dems. Quite a number of people in this

:21:49.:21:51.

constituency, 57%, particularly people who

:21:52.:21:53.

voted Conservative in the past, are really upset that they've got

:21:54.:21:59.

somebody, the Conservative candidate,

:22:00.:22:02.

who voted to leave. Always nice to have a professional

:22:03.:22:04.

wardrobe dresser. Dickie Bird, who served

:22:05.:22:06.

in the British Army for 20 With possibly a cooling down

:22:07.:22:09.

on Brexit from the Government, there's a possibility of 30,000

:22:10.:22:13.

votes there that can reinforce and keep the Prime Minister's toes

:22:14.:22:18.

to the fire to make sure that Brexit is Brexit

:22:19.:22:24.

and we do actually leave the EU. You know my name?

:22:25.:22:27.

Great. His name is Larry Sanders,

:22:28.:22:28.

the Green candidate. If he seems a bit familiar,

:22:29.:22:31.

it's because his brother was the US presidential

:22:32.:22:34.

hopeful, Bernie Sanders. I'm part of a world movement

:22:35.:22:38.

that we can get past the last 30 years of perhaps shifting

:22:39.:22:41.

money from the rich from My brother Bernie started it

:22:42.:22:44.

and I want to finish it. It's a real pleasure

:22:45.:22:48.

to meet you both. Barrister Robert Courts is

:22:49.:22:50.

hoping to follow in David Cameron's

:22:51.:22:55.

Conservative footsteps. There's no such thing

:22:56.:22:57.

as a safe seat. I'll be getting out and meeting

:22:58.:22:59.

as many people as I possibly can in every town and listening

:23:00.:23:02.

to their concerns, and explaining why I think I'd be the best

:23:03.:23:05.

person to represent them. This will be Theresa May's first

:23:06.:23:08.

electoral test as Prime Minister, which is why she's not

:23:09.:23:10.

taking any chances and was out with one

:23:11.:23:16.

of her old friends this weekend, By-elections in safe seats sometimes

:23:17.:23:19.

have a knack of throwing Witney goes to the

:23:20.:23:24.

polls on Thursday. Ellie Price there,

:23:25.:23:28.

and a full list of candidates standing in Thursday's

:23:29.:23:38.

by-election is on the website. Now, he's got the most

:23:39.:23:41.

comfortable seat in parliament, he's a Lord but had to be elected

:23:42.:23:43.

to his position. Former Conservative Cabinet

:23:44.:23:46.

Minister Lord Fowler took up his position last week

:23:47.:23:50.

after winning a vote amongst fellow peers,

:23:51.:23:52.

and joins us in the studio. Congratulations again, although I

:23:53.:24:05.

think we spoke at the time, what is the role of the Lord's post EU

:24:06.:24:08.

referendum? The role of the Lord's post-referendum is exact to what it

:24:09.:24:12.

has been before, what we are about is scrutinising every piece of

:24:13.:24:16.

legislation that comes through, we do not have a guillotine process in

:24:17.:24:21.

the Lords, which, in the Commons, I was in the Commons 31 years, often

:24:22.:24:26.

means that really quite important issues are not given the attention

:24:27.:24:30.

that they might be. And so we go through every piece of legislation,

:24:31.:24:35.

and try to make constructive changes, if changes are needed to

:24:36.:24:40.

it. How will that work when it comes to legislation regarding Brexit, the

:24:41.:24:50.

laws, as you say, are not meant to frustrate the will of the Commons,

:24:51.:24:52.

they will vote against manifesto commitments by the government. --

:24:53.:24:54.

the Lords. The EU referendum result is different. We recognise, first

:24:55.:24:57.

thing, we recognise the primacy of the House of Commons. We don't wish

:24:58.:25:02.

to challenge that. But what it sometimes means is that there are

:25:03.:25:07.

disagreements between the two houses, or fiercely. We have an

:25:08.:25:12.

example of that last week, when, I think, the government lost about six

:25:13.:25:19.

divisions. That does not mean to say that those losses were actually

:25:20.:25:25.

going to legislation, because there will be compromises in between. You

:25:26.:25:29.

previously said that the Prime Minister the Commons should not

:25:30.:25:33.

leave the unchallenged so should they be able to block Brexit

:25:34.:25:40.

negotiation? As a general principle, certainly, I think that the Lords,

:25:41.:25:46.

at times, can vote down something that has come from the Commons, you

:25:47.:25:50.

have just been spending a lot of time, quite rightly, on health Dubs

:25:51.:25:53.

Amendment, well, if it had not been for the Lords, we would not have had

:25:54.:26:00.

alt Dubs Amendment, it did not get through the Commons. -- on Alf Dubs

:26:01.:26:06.

Amendment. Should the Lords be able to block through the terms of Brexit

:26:07.:26:13.

negotiation. I am going to give you the same reply, I am the House of

:26:14.:26:18.

Lords, I am neutral, I am not... I'm asking for your view, in terms of

:26:19.:26:25.

advising peers what to do, how did you vote on the EU referendum?

:26:26.:26:32.

McGrath I voted to remain. When it comes to decisions for example on

:26:33.:26:35.

the approval of triggering Article 50, the great repeal Bill. The

:26:36.:26:39.

Conservative peer, Baroness Patience Wheatcroft said that approval could

:26:40.:26:44.

be withheld and the Lords might actually delay things, is she right?

:26:45.:26:49.

I don't know, and I think that the position is at the moment with

:26:50.:26:53.

Article 50 there is a legal case, as you well know, on that. On the great

:26:54.:27:00.

repeal Bill, I'm not sure if that is going to be the title, but on the

:27:01.:27:03.

great repeal Bill, it will be like any other piece of legislation, we

:27:04.:27:08.

will go through it and there will be proposals and the government and the

:27:09.:27:12.

Lords and the Commons can go through it and make amendments. If

:27:13.:27:16.

amendments are necessary. I'm sure there going to be debates... Where

:27:17.:27:22.

we end up is anyone's guess. It is about the role, the great repeal

:27:23.:27:25.

Bill was not a manifesto commitment, it couldn't be, so in that case,

:27:26.:27:30.

could, as Patience Wheatcroft said, could the Lords frustrate the

:27:31.:27:32.

government on that issue? Frustrate is putting it in a rather emotive

:27:33.:27:40.

way. De Laet yet? Stop it? I think that the Lords could make amendments

:27:41.:27:49.

to the bill. -- delay it. They can make amendments to the bill in the

:27:50.:27:52.

same way that they make amendments to any other Bill, whether that is

:27:53.:27:58.

the end of the matter is quite another decision. The Commons can

:27:59.:28:02.

look at it, they can say whether they degree all they want some

:28:03.:28:06.

compromise or they reject. Let's say that one of the amendments of the

:28:07.:28:10.

great repeal Bill, we have been told by government ministers that is a

:28:11.:28:14.

chance for both elected members -- elected members and the house of

:28:15.:28:21.

lords to discuss this, what if one of the amendments was to discuss

:28:22.:28:24.

that there should not be a stance on the government of coming out of the

:28:25.:28:26.

single market, would that be in your view within the role of the House of

:28:27.:28:29.

Lords? I don't know, that would have to be something for the clerk of the

:28:30.:28:33.

parliaments to decide. As I say, you are putting me into a position that

:28:34.:28:39.

I don't actually occupy. I cannot be an advocate on this, I am meant to

:28:40.:28:44.

hold the balance, hold the consensus. It is rather new for me!

:28:45.:28:54.

Broadly speaking, would that be within the remit that you would find

:28:55.:28:58.

expendable -- acceptable. If it is in order, any thing that comes in

:28:59.:29:09.

order. Do you see a situation whereby the House of Lords could

:29:10.:29:12.

change of frustrate the democratic will of the people? On the great

:29:13.:29:15.

repeal Bill, that comes at the end of the process, what we are talking

:29:16.:29:19.

about is whether Parliament should be allowed to scrutinise, both

:29:20.:29:23.

houses, should be allowed to scrutinise the way that the

:29:24.:29:27.

government intends to interpret the instruction from the British people

:29:28.:29:33.

in the EU referendum to leave. What I said in the debate we had on this,

:29:34.:29:38.

in the Commons last Wednesday, was that there has clearly been a vote

:29:39.:29:42.

to leave the European Union expressed in a referendum but that

:29:43.:29:45.

does not mean that we should leave it in the most damaging way. I think

:29:46.:29:51.

that... You mean by leaving the single market? By having a very hard

:29:52.:29:56.

Brexiteer with no access... Relying upon... -- very hard Brexit. There

:29:57.:30:00.

has not been any vocation of not having access, a tariff... They are

:30:01.:30:07.

not sharing with us any of their thoughts on how they are trying to

:30:08.:30:11.

do it at the moment and I think that it is important for Parliament to

:30:12.:30:15.

have a say and be able to scrutinise the government in how they are going

:30:16.:30:19.

about the process. Do you believe there should be a vote ahead of

:30:20.:30:24.

Article 50, for the Commons, ahead of next March, for the terms of the

:30:25.:30:28.

negotiation? I think it is really important that the government sets

:30:29.:30:31.

out in a White Paper what they are thinking about in terms of the

:30:32.:30:37.

future. If there was a vote and they voted against the negotiating stance

:30:38.:30:43.

or coming out of the single market, surely that would be frustrating

:30:44.:30:45.

what people said in the EU referendum. This is done normally,

:30:46.:30:48.

this used to be done any time any minister... And I have represented

:30:49.:30:52.

the Council of ministers for the UK, whenever you would go to talk about

:30:53.:30:56.

a directive, you would have scrutiny from Parliament saying that you

:30:57.:30:59.

could operate within certain contexts. Nothing new about this.

:31:00.:31:05.

Would you like to see a vote before Article 50 is triggered?

:31:06.:31:12.

Should there be a vote? We should let the Government continue with the

:31:13.:31:19.

negotiation and I do not think there should be a vote before the

:31:20.:31:27.

triggering of article 16. Mike Watson has said grammar schools are

:31:28.:31:34.

dead. -- Article 50. The house of Lords would be within their right to

:31:35.:31:39.

oppose that policy. You say oppose it. Remember, we never defeat

:31:40.:31:44.

anything on second reading. What one is looking at is the bill. It had

:31:45.:31:49.

not come to us from the House of Commons. I don't know what happens

:31:50.:31:53.

in the hands of Commons, let alone in the House of Lords. We will

:31:54.:31:58.

obviously does that will be scrutinised. -- the House of

:31:59.:32:04.

Commons. You have to sit in the chair for about five minutes only to

:32:05.:32:08.

know there is a lot of feeling on grammar schools. We do take these

:32:09.:32:13.

decisions. On tax credits, we took the decision. We were much

:32:14.:32:18.

criticised, the House of Lords, for taking that. When it went actively

:32:19.:32:23.

House of Commons, and we basically said, look at this, think again,

:32:24.:32:28.

they thought again and nothing else was heard about the tax credits

:32:29.:32:32.

proposal. It is a process in action. I do know if that will be what

:32:33.:32:38.

happens with grammar schools. What I do know is with the educationalists

:32:39.:32:43.

and the others, grammar school people like myself, there will be

:32:44.:32:46.

quite a lot of feeling on this and quite a lot of experience. I hope

:32:47.:32:53.

you are looking forward to it. I am, greatly.

:32:54.:32:55.

Now, our guest of the day, Maria Miller, chairs the newly

:32:56.:32:58.

formed Women and Equalities select committee.

:32:59.:32:59.

But with a woman Prime Minister at the helm for a second time

:33:00.:33:02.

and girls now outperforming boys at school, is the work

:33:03.:33:05.

Well, Laura Perrins of the website, The Conservative Woman,

:33:06.:33:08.

Here's her Soapbox on why she thinks feminism is making women

:33:09.:33:12.

Modern feminism ignores what women actually want, which is a balance

:33:13.:33:24.

Feminism has been hijacked by a narrow elite who dominate

:33:25.:33:30.

Lots of women have far more traditional views

:33:31.:33:38.

than they are permitted to admit, which is one of the reasons

:33:39.:33:40.

we set up the website, the Conservative Woman.

:33:41.:33:44.

We used to have a reader who left comments telling us that today's

:33:45.:33:48.

generation of young women were kick ass and confident and going to take

:33:49.:33:52.

over the world, so we had better get used to it.

:33:53.:33:57.

What feminism has produced is a generation of whining,

:33:58.:34:01.

moaning women, who, despite unparalleled

:34:02.:34:04.

opportunity and wealth, view themselves as victims.

:34:05.:34:10.

After at least a decade of feminists claiming victimhood and mounting

:34:11.:34:21.

an extremely effective public campaign to serve their interests,

:34:22.:34:27.

girls now outperform boys all the way through

:34:28.:34:29.

Young women significantly outnumber young men at university and they out

:34:30.:34:36.

earn young man after graduation until the age of about 30.

:34:37.:34:49.

A recent report revealed that 38% of women were worried

:34:50.:34:54.

22% felt depressed, and 55% were worried for their future.

:34:55.:35:06.

The modern 20-something woman has inherited the fruits

:35:07.:35:09.

of the poisonous, feminist ideology that seeks to divide the sexes

:35:10.:35:14.

And Laura joins us now have already started the conversation. Listening

:35:15.:35:34.

to you, the sisterhood will be crying out and saying, you are a

:35:35.:35:37.

traitor to the cause and how on earth is the medicine to be blamed

:35:38.:35:42.

for women being Moni and miserable today? First of all, the first

:35:43.:35:48.

statistic is that only 7% of women identify as feminists. Medium

:35:49.:35:52.

politics is dominated by the agenda when ordinary women do not identify

:35:53.:35:57.

with it at all. Only 7%. The problem with modern feminism is that it is

:35:58.:36:04.

elitist, it in fantasises women by often second-guessing motives and it

:36:05.:36:09.

also, sadly in some cases, can make women genuinely unhappy. It is not

:36:10.:36:13.

those women I feel sorry for those women, and they should be supported.

:36:14.:36:17.

One reason I believe they are unhappy is because of an elitist

:36:18.:36:26.

agenda, a 1% feminist agenda, pushed by people like Maria Miller. What do

:36:27.:36:31.

you say to that, that it is an elitist issue? The menace is not

:36:32.:36:34.

something that has anything to do with the lives of ordinary women.

:36:35.:36:39.

The evidence we took in our select committee and our report to women at

:36:40.:36:44.

work and the payback -- pay gap would suggest that Laura is entirely

:36:45.:36:51.

wrong. The biggest problem hitting women are those on the lowest of

:36:52.:36:58.

pains. When in sectors like caring and hospitality, they will continue

:36:59.:37:02.

to have problems getting the sort of wages they can live on and the sort

:37:03.:37:06.

of career progression that perhaps other women take for granted. Some

:37:07.:37:10.

women in this country, very privileged women, have seen a great

:37:11.:37:15.

deal of change and benefit art of the feminist agenda. We want to make

:37:16.:37:21.

sure that it is everyone in who gets more access to equality in the

:37:22.:37:26.

future. Isn't you'll is really to do with middle-class women? You cite

:37:27.:37:30.

the fact that girls are doing better than boys at school and women are

:37:31.:37:33.

outperforming men throughout education. That is the new

:37:34.:37:36.

generation coming through and you have a problem with middle-class

:37:37.:37:43.

women who use they may be miserable and moany as a result of feminism

:37:44.:37:47.

but that is not entirely fair. Certainly not. The issue of the

:37:48.:37:51.

gender pay gap has been misrepresented in the media can do

:37:52.:37:55.

it ignores first low pay especially on how families work as a unit. The

:37:56.:38:02.

Institute for Fiscal Studies says women and 18% less per hour than

:38:03.:38:05.

men. There is nothing misrepresented about that. That does not take into

:38:06.:38:10.

account part-time work. I have never heard such rubbish.

:38:11.:38:31.

That is because you do not read about it. What is the rubbish?

:38:32.:38:36.

Demolition of the creed of liberation and equality for women.

:38:37.:38:43.

It has not caused women to become whining and unsatisfied. What we

:38:44.:38:46.

need is to see that women ought to be in allowed to take their places

:38:47.:38:53.

on equal terms with men in our society. We are a very long way from

:38:54.:39:00.

that. The pay gap is 30%. Once you are past 30. Why does it go down?

:39:01.:39:05.

Why does it widen when you are past 30, because most of the duties to

:39:06.:39:10.

have and look after children and disproportionately on women. We have

:39:11.:39:17.

not organised our society. They want to do that. I am not saying they do

:39:18.:39:23.

not. We need to organise our society so we care for children and are more

:39:24.:39:28.

child centres and when women do that they do not suffer a career

:39:29.:39:36.

disadvantage. -- child centred. Men and women contribute more. That is a

:39:37.:39:42.

change that feminism brings. When women want to come back into the

:39:43.:39:47.

workplace, are you saying they are not unfairly paid compare it to male

:39:48.:39:51.

counterparts and they are able to do the jobs they did before? --

:39:52.:39:59.

compared to male counterparts. They are not discriminated against once

:40:00.:40:02.

they come back. There is no evidence for that. Let Laura finished. It has

:40:03.:40:10.

been looked into. The Institute of economic affairs has looked into

:40:11.:40:16.

theirs. Women's hour, let's take women's hour. They had a survey out

:40:17.:40:20.

last week. Just let me finish this point. Of the women who work

:40:21.:40:25.

full-time, 56% said they would like to spend more time at home and 1.6%

:40:26.:40:31.

said they wanted to work. That is not the point we were talking about.

:40:32.:40:35.

Let's go back to being discriminated against in terms of pay. You have

:40:36.:40:43.

found different evidence. Let's listen to the evidence from Maria

:40:44.:40:47.

Miller on the Pagan. Our select MIDI took extensive evidence on this. --

:40:48.:40:56.

our select committee. Women over 30 could not go back into the sort of

:40:57.:41:01.

jobs they had before they had children and could not get flexible

:41:02.:41:04.

working enabling them to do the sorts of things they needed to. What

:41:05.:41:09.

we found very clearly was women did want to go back into work, did want

:41:10.:41:14.

to balance children and family commitments and their work lives.

:41:15.:41:18.

Too many employers are not making that available. Britain is suffering

:41:19.:41:22.

as a result. That is why business needs to deal with it. This woman

:41:23.:41:28.

has blamed the existence of Donald Trump on feminism. This is

:41:29.:41:32.

ludicrous. There were male chauvinist pigs long before feminism

:41:33.:41:37.

existed. We have got a liberation movement of women fighting for our

:41:38.:41:43.

equality, not more, fighting for our equality, to deal with issues like

:41:44.:41:46.

that. I won't sit here and be told by some of the better fight for

:41:47.:41:50.

equality causes male chauvinism. It certainly does not. Are you saying

:41:51.:41:57.

the absence of feminism means women would be happier today? I am saying

:41:58.:42:04.

they should not pitting men against women. Just because you do not like

:42:05.:42:08.

somebody's and to view does not mean you can ignore the evidence that is

:42:09.:42:15.

out there. There is conflicting evidence, isn't there? Conflicting

:42:16.:42:20.

because it has been picked out by the medium political elite. It is an

:42:21.:42:24.

important issue. Flexible working and part-time working is what women

:42:25.:42:30.

want. Top-down government initiatives will actually have a

:42:31.:42:33.

chilling effect on employers offering that. I seriously ask you

:42:34.:42:38.

to reconsider those kinds of proposals. It does not work. There

:42:39.:42:47.

are women on the right, like this, who say that if you give women equal

:42:48.:42:51.

pay it would stop women being allowed into the workplace. If you

:42:52.:42:58.

give women maternity leave... This is nonsense. Isn't it the point that

:42:59.:43:02.

the women who want to stay home and look after their children, they

:43:03.:43:05.

don't want to enter the workplace necessarily. Feminism is about

:43:06.:43:11.

choices and creating a society that enables women to stay at home and

:43:12.:43:14.

look after their children if they want or to go out and have a career

:43:15.:43:19.

and children if they want. Laura does not represent the views of the

:43:20.:43:22.

Conservative Party and I think her website could be misinterpreted in

:43:23.:43:27.

that way. The Conservative Party is absolutely focused on making sure

:43:28.:43:30.

that women can do their best in terms of going into work by getting

:43:31.:43:33.

jobs they want, and balancing that in the way they choose to balance

:43:34.:43:38.

it. I think Laura needs to look at the facts. Interestingly, Labour

:43:39.:43:45.

women MPs have always numbered more highly than other women MPs. In

:43:46.:43:50.

terms of Prime Minister is, of course, they have had two female

:43:51.:43:53.

Prime Minister. In a way, reaching the top has been easier or more

:43:54.:43:57.

possible under the Tories and Labour. That is undeniably true. We

:43:58.:44:04.

will carry on fighting. It is interesting to bearing in mind the

:44:05.:44:08.

different approaches, it has not happened. I absolutely accept that

:44:09.:44:12.

point. Will fight and carry on fighting the rest of my life to make

:44:13.:44:17.

sure we do as well in terms of female Prime Minister 's than the

:44:18.:44:19.

Conservative Party. Thank you. Now, looking ahead, let's see

:44:20.:44:22.

what else is coming up this week. At some point this week

:44:23.:44:25.

the government is expected, finally, to back a third

:44:26.:44:27.

runway at Heathrow. That was the recommendation

:44:28.:44:30.

of the Airport Commission last year, but with reports of up to 60

:44:31.:44:36.

backbenchers being opposed to the move, the pressure

:44:37.:44:43.

is on the government to come up Today Ukip's National

:44:44.:44:46.

Executive Committee will meet to discuss the process

:44:47.:44:48.

for electing a new leader. This follows a tumultous few weeks

:44:49.:44:50.

for the party, which ended in a fracas at the European Parliament

:44:51.:44:53.

that saw leadership hopeful On Tuesday the Home

:44:54.:44:56.

Affairs Select Committee will hear from the new chair of

:44:57.:44:58.

the inquiry into child sexual abuse. The inquiry has suffered a number

:44:59.:45:04.

of setbacks, and Professor Alexis Jay is the fourth

:45:05.:45:07.

person to have chaired it. On Thursday voters in Witney,

:45:08.:45:12.

David Cameron's former constituency, There's also another

:45:13.:45:14.

by-election in Batley and Spen, which was triggered after the death

:45:15.:45:19.

of Labour MP Jo Cox, but the main parties

:45:20.:45:22.

will not be contesting that. And Friday will mark Theresa May's

:45:23.:45:26.

first 100 days in office. But while the new PM has emphasised

:45:27.:45:32.

that "Brexit means Brexit", more and more questions are being asked

:45:33.:45:37.

about her government's plan We're joined now in the studio

:45:38.:45:40.

by Kevin Maguire, associate editor of the Daily Mirror,

:45:41.:45:45.

and the Daily Mail's Andrew Pierce. I knew that he would gate-crash...!

:45:46.:46:00.

Is that true? LAUGHTER I couldn't possibly comment. Talking

:46:01.:46:02.

about Philip Hammond and reported splits and tensions in the cabinet,

:46:03.:46:09.

is Philip Hammond the Chancellor a remoaner? He is, and it is visible

:46:10.:46:16.

servants, lukewarm Brexit, soft Brexit, whatever you want to call

:46:17.:46:19.

it, the Treasury is against it and it does not take long for

:46:20.:46:23.

institution of the Treasury to get the chance link to its claws,

:46:24.:46:26.

somebody in the Treasury is leaking stuff.

:46:27.:46:30.

Leaking stuff from government, surely not, that never happens(!)

:46:31.:46:38.

has this row been overblown, talk of Philip Hammond's role as a remoaner?

:46:39.:46:42.

He is looking at the figures and can see the realities of what Brexit

:46:43.:46:46.

might mean and he is concerned for the British economy, next year 's

:46:47.:46:50.

growth figures have been downgraded because of it, we have seen the

:46:51.:46:53.

powerful, hearing all the investors, not just banks but big manufacturers

:46:54.:46:59.

as well warning that they may cut investment, waiting to see how

:47:00.:47:04.

Brexit may work out, and it is not just the Treasury riffing, he has

:47:05.:47:09.

not fallen into the clutches of the Treasury, everybody is briefing, and

:47:10.:47:16.

labour, the governing party is what really counts, right across the

:47:17.:47:18.

governing party, there is a huge differences on where we go. If

:47:19.:47:21.

Philip Hammond is raising concerns, legitimately, in cabinet, Andrew

:47:22.:47:24.

Pierce, and saying he wants to delay migration curbs because it would

:47:25.:47:28.

harm business, isn't that his role? Is that really trying to subvert the

:47:29.:47:33.

democratic will of the people? He is entitled to raise his objections,

:47:34.:47:36.

and resignations, but the Prime Minister made it absolutely clear

:47:37.:47:40.

that free movement of people is one of her red lines, she wants curbs on

:47:41.:47:44.

immigration, he is trying to slow that down, it is fine to slow it

:47:45.:47:51.

down, I think he is resisting the will of the government. Will he get

:47:52.:47:54.

anywhere? Probably, the referendum was won by those who want to quit,

:47:55.:48:02.

Brexiteers, and... Theresa May has said that she has got to deliver

:48:03.:48:04.

Brexit, and to her, that does mean what she certainly implied, that

:48:05.:48:07.

freedom of movement will have two and, and we will not be under the

:48:08.:48:10.

jurisdiction of the European court of justice. She always says Brexit

:48:11.:48:15.

means Brexit but she does not fill in the gap afterwards, she never

:48:16.:48:19.

says what it means, that is where the battle is, ending free movement

:48:20.:48:25.

does not mean ending migration, we will still have a relationship,

:48:26.:48:29.

people will come in, people will go and work from Britain in the rest of

:48:30.:48:36.

the European Union, these attitudes must be had, these arguments must be

:48:37.:48:39.

aired, to pretend everyone is United is a myth. In the Downing Street

:48:40.:48:41.

briefing there was a vote of confidence from the Prime Minister

:48:42.:48:45.

in Philip Hammond, you would expect that, but also... Also LAUGHTER

:48:46.:48:50.

Also number ten make clear that she, Theresa May, once all the ministers

:48:51.:48:54.

working together. That is easier said than done. -- oncewants. You

:48:55.:49:06.

work with Philip Hammond in cabinet, is the one to resist and slow down

:49:07.:49:08.

the progress of Brexit if he believes it is in the best interest

:49:09.:49:13.

of the economy? It is not in the best interest of anybody to slow

:49:14.:49:16.

down Brexit, businesses want certainty and they want the business

:49:17.:49:23.

to be as quick as possible. I don't think the Treasury, or Philip

:49:24.:49:25.

Hammond, who has a good business background, would like to slow that

:49:26.:49:29.

down unnecessarily. We have to come to the right conclusion here, make

:49:30.:49:32.

sure we do not simply leave the YouTube accepts their roles as they

:49:33.:49:39.

are currently. We need to see a change in terms of freedom of

:49:40.:49:41.

movement, we need to... We need to see the laws that affect this

:49:42.:49:44.

country made in this country, that is what people voted for. Do you

:49:45.:49:50.

think Philip Hammond is signed up to delivering Grexit? Every member of

:49:51.:49:53.

the cabinet must be signed up to delivering Brexit, because that is

:49:54.:49:56.

what the British people have voted for. -- Brexit. When it comes to

:49:57.:50:07.

migration, it will be difficult to hit the net migration target if it

:50:08.:50:11.

is delayed. The two do not go together. Theresa May missed it

:50:12.:50:14.

consistently throughout her entire time. We were in the EU, then. I bet

:50:15.:50:20.

that she will continue in the Prime Minister not least because more

:50:21.:50:23.

people come into Britain from outside the European Union than

:50:24.:50:26.

within it, if immigration is your big thing, you should cut off the

:50:27.:50:34.

world instead of Europe! It is about sovereignty and Britain's parliament

:50:35.:50:36.

deciding which laws it has, on migration and labour, what is wrong

:50:37.:50:40.

with the government saying, limiting the influx of cheap unskilled labour

:50:41.:50:46.

from Eastern Europe, we don't need it. Sovereignty of Parliament and

:50:47.:50:50.

yet Theresa May is frightened of giving Parliament votes Andre Gray

:50:51.:50:54.

Article 50 and the terms. Moving on to something else that we have been

:50:55.:51:02.

waiting for a decision on, the airport expansion, Heathrow, looks

:51:03.:51:04.

as if there is another short pause on that announcement, why is that?

:51:05.:51:07.

We have been waiting for 15 years, Frankie, what's another week! But,

:51:08.:51:15.

we still think it will be Heathrow, they will be sorting out Boris

:51:16.:51:18.

Johnson, he once said that he would sit in front of the bulldozer to

:51:19.:51:21.

stop it, perhaps trying to prevent a by-election in Richmond with Zac

:51:22.:51:24.

Goldsmith full. The Shadow Transport Secretary has written a piece saying

:51:25.:51:30.

that a third runway is fine? Most Labour MPs I believe back Heathrow

:51:31.:51:33.

expansion, Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell they do not, and so the

:51:34.:51:37.

tried and trusted way of the new Labour Party, they will have a free

:51:38.:51:40.

vote and they will go that way! LAUGHTER

:51:41.:51:48.

Where are you on it? I think Heathrow is probably the best at the

:51:49.:51:50.

moment, not least because it connects the Northern economy with

:51:51.:51:55.

the new gateway that the extra runway will bring about. But I also

:51:56.:52:01.

think that we have got to ensure that the air pollution that would

:52:02.:52:06.

result is dealt with appropriately, and the environmental safeguards are

:52:07.:52:09.

good enough. Jeremy Corbyn is reluctant to support the idea of a

:52:10.:52:13.

third runway and John McDowell, Shadow Chancellor, is dead against

:52:14.:52:21.

it, always has been. What happen to leadership? -- John McDonnell. It is

:52:22.:52:25.

clear to me that we need to make a decision on airport expansion for

:52:26.:52:28.

the good of the economy, the economy is being threatened by other things,

:52:29.:52:33.

not least the shock of Brexit. Without a united front on the Labour

:52:34.:52:38.

leadership? There is probably a majority in the Commons for Heathrow

:52:39.:52:39.

but time will tell. It is hopeless that the opposition

:52:40.:52:46.

cannot form... To be honest, when David Cameron was in opposition...

:52:47.:52:52.

When David Cameron was in opposition he had free votes on all sorts of

:52:53.:53:00.

things and he took the credit. On Heathrow, Labour was for it, the

:53:01.:53:02.

Conservatives were against it, conservatives for it, Labour

:53:03.:53:07.

against. Flip-flop. Maybe a free vote is the only way forward! To

:53:08.:53:11.

people who never free flip-flop on issues and their principles, thank

:53:12.:53:16.

you very much. We reported earlier on the by-election in Witney and we

:53:17.:53:20.

have our very own list of candidates standing in the by-election, that is

:53:21.:53:25.

on-screen now: you can find that list on the BBC website as well.

:53:26.:53:32.

Now, how do you like your political logos?

:53:33.:53:34.

Red flag? Red rose?

:53:35.:53:35.

Maybe you're more of a bird or oak tree person?

:53:36.:53:37.

But what makes a good political logo and what do they say

:53:38.:53:40.

about the parties and politicians they represent?

:53:41.:53:42.

One of our guests has firsthand experience of this

:53:43.:53:44.

after Angela Eagle recently had to devise a logo for her Labour

:53:45.:53:47.

We'll be asking her about that in a moment,

:53:48.:53:50.

but first here's a look at some of the new political logos

:53:51.:53:53.

And, here to cast his eye over all those logos

:53:54.:54:47.

is Benedict Pringle, the founder of

:54:48.:54:49.

Why do they matter? They matter because they differentiate you from

:54:50.:54:57.

the other candidates standing, and they tell the people looking at your

:54:58.:55:01.

campaign a little bit about you, a visual short cut to the candidates

:55:02.:55:07.

values, to their personas, and so, look, a good logo is not going to

:55:08.:55:11.

win you the election but it is not a bad place to spot -- start. Look at

:55:12.:55:16.

this, what did you think of this? I thought the positioning was very

:55:17.:55:21.

strong, boring real leadership is the point of divide between her and

:55:22.:55:26.

Jeremy Corbyn, very sensible. I thought, however, the general look

:55:27.:55:30.

and feel of it for me did not feel particularly authentic to Angela.

:55:31.:55:35.

That is my signature, that is me! LAUGHTER

:55:36.:55:40.

Is it a bit behind the signature? Well, I have played chess for my

:55:41.:55:43.

country, and when I was sat there, with the little flag, doing my

:55:44.:55:47.

chess, I was as proud as proud and they, as a lot of those Olympians

:55:48.:55:51.

will be marching through what I hope is a wonderful procession. That is a

:55:52.:55:58.

flag... It is the UK flag. How long did you think about this? I'm sure

:55:59.:56:02.

you are proud of being a chess champion, but... It was a long time

:56:03.:56:06.

ago! What was going through your mind when you devised this? Well, it

:56:07.:56:10.

was done very quickly, because obviously, you have a load of other

:56:11.:56:15.

things to do and you do not have a megabudget. It is a signature, and a

:56:16.:56:20.

quick message, that is all you can hope to get. Why the colour pink?

:56:21.:56:26.

Well, it is not really paint, it is pinkish. -- not really pink. Owen

:56:27.:56:37.

Smith, stood the leadership, we don't have time to get into a debate

:56:38.:56:40.

about colour, we had this in the past. What about this one? This

:56:41.:56:49.

is... A bit boring... He just wanted to avoid slipping on a banana skin.

:56:50.:56:53.

I don't think he gained or lost anything from it. Jeremy Corbyn's...

:56:54.:57:00.

This was his second logo, of his first leadership campaign, a

:57:01.:57:05.

commentator on my website commented that maybe there is a hidden meaning

:57:06.:57:09.

in this logo, does it say up with the left and down with the right?

:57:10.:57:14.

Well! You would have to have thought about that...! Is that what it said

:57:15.:57:20.

to you? I had never thought of it in that way... Perfectly reasonable

:57:21.:57:29.

design. Keeping very safe there are! Sadiq Khan, news logo for Mayor of

:57:30.:57:32.

London, did you like this? This was a logo, contemporary, bright,

:57:33.:57:36.

colourful. Nice graphic of the Thames, who doesn't like rivers(!)

:57:37.:57:42.

it is politically neutral, as well. Willing to cross the divide, that is

:57:43.:57:45.

always sensible. Do you think there was a lot of money spent on that? I

:57:46.:57:48.

know that that was done in-house at the Labour Party, so not that much

:57:49.:57:54.

money was spent on it. So not always about money, you don't have to spend

:57:55.:57:57.

a fortune. Very often you have to have a clear idea about what you

:57:58.:58:02.

want to say, and ideas are free. You have some ideas for Angela Eagle,

:58:03.:58:07.

here you go. Here you go... A gift! Symbol of leadership and strength,

:58:08.:58:11.

going back to Roman times, a gift of a name! Looks a bit liberal... And a

:58:12.:58:20.

kind of Dove peace thing going on, so you represent leadership,

:58:21.:58:24.

strength, unity... Maria Miller, we will not leave you out, we have one

:58:25.:58:27.

for you. I thought, if the time comes... Influence of Hillary in

:58:28.:58:36.

there! The only way is up, good strapline if your party is in times

:58:37.:58:40.

of trouble. And you have your theme song there as well! Looks a bit

:58:41.:58:45.

industrial, I would go for something softer, the Conservative Party route

:58:46.:58:48.

that you can move from the torch to the tree and actually make the

:58:49.:58:52.

change really smoothly. She has been thinking about it, standing for the

:58:53.:58:56.

next leadership(!) and give very much for coming in, and for your

:58:57.:59:03.

ideas. -- thank you very much for coming in.

:59:04.:59:05.

I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories

:59:06.:59:12.

Jo Coburn is joined by former culture secretary Maria Miller and former shadow business secretary Angela Eagle for the latest news and debate from Westminster, including moves to bring child refugees from the Calais 'jungle' to the UK.


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