02/02/2017 Daily Politics


02/02/2017

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The ayes to the right 329, the noes to the left 112.

:00:38.:00:51.

MPs vote overwhelming in favour of taking Britain out

:00:52.:00:53.

to go, but can anything now stand in the way of Brexit?

:00:54.:01:06.

David Davis is due to publish a White Paper

:01:07.:01:08.

What more will we learn about its approach to negotiations

:01:09.:01:11.

Earlier on today a woman rang the BBC to say there

:01:12.:01:15.

That's what the Bank of England's chief economist called the failure

:01:16.:01:23.

to predict the 2008 financial crisis.

:01:24.:01:25.

As the bank publishes its latest economic forecasts, will it admit

:01:26.:01:27.

to having had another one over Brexit?

:01:28.:01:30.

Well, that's one way to get our message across.

:01:31.:01:34.

We'll ask Labour MEP Seb Dance why he resorted to video-bombing.

:01:35.:01:50.

And with us for the duration today is man who used to respond

:01:51.:01:57.

to letters on behalf of Margaret Thatcher.

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So he should be able to cope with the questioning he'll get today.

:02:00.:02:02.

Former Conservative MP and Times Columnist Matthew Parris,

:02:03.:02:04.

Now, in the next 30 minutes or so, the Government will take another

:02:05.:02:15.

step towards leaving the EU. They have just published their Brexit

:02:16.:02:17.

White Paper the proposed strategy. The

:02:18.:02:34.

Government had resisted pressure only for Mrs made to announce it at

:02:35.:02:37.

Prime Minister's Questions last week.

:02:38.:02:39.

The White Paper is Theresa May's roadmap to leaving the EU and it's

:02:40.:02:45.

based on the speech Mrs May gave a couple of weeks ago,

:02:46.:02:48.

Crucially, she said Britain will take back control of all its laws

:02:49.:02:52.

and we will no longer be under the jurisdiction

:02:53.:02:54.

The UK will leave the European single market.

:02:55.:02:57.

This will mean immigration from the EU can be controlled.

:02:58.:03:00.

The Brexit Bill passed its first vote last night with 498 MPs voting

:03:01.:03:03.

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn had ordered his MPs

:03:04.:03:09.

There was also a rebellion within the Lib Dems.

:03:10.:03:17.

Despite opposing the bill, two Liberal Democrat MPs

:03:18.:03:20.

The next obstacle in the road is when the bill goes to committee

:03:21.:03:26.

stage next week where MPs can make plenty of mischief,

:03:27.:03:29.

And then once it's through the Commons it goes to the Lords,

:03:30.:03:37.

where there are lots of pro-EU peers who can hold the bill

:03:38.:03:40.

Let's get more on the White Paper with Norman Smith,

:03:41.:03:46.

Is it going to tell us a lot more? I suspect not. I asked a cabinet

:03:47.:03:58.

minister this moniker is there anything newsworthy in the White

:03:59.:04:02.

Paper? He gave me a rueful shake off the head. I think we can take it

:04:03.:04:08.

will be a restatement of many of the arguments that Theresa May set out

:04:09.:04:13.

in her speech to EU ambassadors, padded out with background thinking

:04:14.:04:17.

and analysis. Basically, it will be a restatement full in terms of its

:04:18.:04:22.

political usefulness, the only thing I think it contributes is it gives

:04:23.:04:29.

some of Mrs made's Tory rebels the chance to say, we have got this

:04:30.:04:35.

concession out of her. She has given this white paper we have been

:04:36.:04:39.

pressing hard for. Conventionally, a white paper you often get a vote on

:04:40.:04:44.

as well. I doubt there will even be a vote on this. David Davis will set

:04:45.:04:49.

out but by and large it would be a rehash of what we know. Is anything

:04:50.:04:54.

standing in the way of this all going ahead? For now, here, no. Down

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the line and in Europe, yes. Given the vote last night where Mrs May

:05:03.:05:08.

had a majority of 384, a colossal majority got you have to say you are

:05:09.:05:12.

scratching your head why she was getting in such a state about

:05:13.:05:16.

allowing MPs vote in the first place. It had to be clawed out of

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her. Actually, the boat has significantly strengthened her hand.

:05:24.:05:27.

Now she can say, I have not only got the mandate of the British people

:05:28.:05:31.

through a referendum, low and behold I have the mandate of the Commons as

:05:32.:05:37.

well. Actually she is in a much stronger position than before when

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she was resisting a vote. Particularly because there are

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divisions and splits in the Labour Party despite Jeremy Corbyn setting

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out what the party line would be. There were 47 also MPs who rebelled,

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including those who are supposed to enforce party discipline. What can

:05:58.:06:00.

you say? It was a dog 's dinner. It is not just, it seems to me, the

:06:01.:06:03.

divisions which go right from the bottom to the top of the party. It

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is not even very clear about how the party will approach the final Brexit

:06:09.:06:13.

vote, once all the members have been considered. They have not ruled out

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the possibility of abstaining, that remains unclear. One other key issue

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bubbling around at Westminster is the position of Diane Abbott. Diane

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Abbott, one of Jeremy Corbyn's says political allies, did not take part

:06:30.:06:39.

in the vote last night. This morning her office said, she had a migraine,

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she was feeling unwell. That is why she did not take part. It transpires

:06:42.:06:46.

just down the road at 3:30pm, Diane Abbott was taking part in a debate

:06:47.:06:51.

and seemed pretty OK. It is absolutely true that migraines can

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come on very quickly. Obviously there is speculation that she

:06:57.:07:01.

bluntly through a sticky because she could not stomach voting for Brexit.

:07:02.:07:06.

Not such an outlandish idea because she had always been bitterly opposed

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to Mr Cobbing giving any ground on issues like immigration or freedom

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of movement and it is quite possible she did Inc, I cannot do this. --

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Jeremy Corbyn. Apologies if she is unwell but there is a suspicion that

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she did decide to liberally to not go ahead with it. If that were the

:07:25.:07:28.

case, that would suggest the divisions within Labour go through

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not just the Parliamentary party and the Shadow Cabinet but right into

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Jeremy Corbyn's inner sanctum. Let's hope the Mrs May does not give you a

:07:41.:07:46.

headache later on. The Bank of England has just announced it is

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upgrading its growth forecast next year to 2%.

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They downgraded forecasts for this year. It has now reversed that and

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is back to almost where it started. We'll be looking at that in a bit

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more detail when we have the details ourselves.

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With me now is Shadow Brexit Minister Paul Blomfield and John

:08:12.:08:13.

Now to the question the whole nation is desperate to get an answer to.

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How is Diane Abbott? It is interesting to know the nation's

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enthusiasm in answer to that. Not enthusiasm, concern. She will have

:08:30.:08:33.

to explain her own position. It is a common thing. You say it is beyond

:08:34.:08:39.

my pay grade on these things. Frankly, it is not for me to explain

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her actions. Sometimes she won't explain them herself to me. Is she

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unwell? Do we know? I have no idea. You will have to ask her. The nation

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will continue on tenterhooks. A fifth of your MPs defied the three

:09:00.:09:03.

line whip in the vote last night full stop there were a whole host of

:09:04.:09:06.

other boats coming up on these amendments and so on. Then there

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will be votes on the great repeal Bill. Ministers will come back and

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you will want to question them on how the negotiations are going. This

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has potential to be an enormous running sore foot labour. It is an

:09:22.:09:27.

enormous issue in terms of its importance to the country. That will

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be reflected in all of the debates in Parliament. These differences

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were very manifest yesterday. There are deep divisions within the

:09:39.:09:42.

Conservative Party as well. They had Ken Clarke. He was their rabble. Did

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you ever think you would see the day when you entered up more divided

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than the Tories used to be divided in Europe. There have been divisions

:09:57.:10:04.

over many years. Hence the referendum in 1975. I never hoped I

:10:05.:10:08.

would see the day when we would be voting to lead the European Union. I

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campaigned relentlessly to stay within it. Why would anyone with a

:10:12.:10:18.

strong view for or against Brexit vote Labour? Because this issue is

:10:19.:10:24.

about, who do you trust to take the country forward? If you want to stay

:10:25.:10:35.

in and defy the referendum, you want to vote Lib Dem, or the SNP. If you

:10:36.:10:40.

are desperate to come out, you vote Tory. What do you have to feel to do

:10:41.:10:48.

this? The Lib Dems are trying to occupy the moral high ground. Nick

:10:49.:10:52.

Clegg was the first person to call for an in/ out referendum. Let me

:10:53.:10:57.

answer your question. The real concern is that the tail will John

:10:58.:11:05.

Redwood represents, wagging the dog of the Conservative Party and

:11:06.:11:09.

leading the country towards Brexit. He is now the dog. He used to be the

:11:10.:11:21.

tail but he is now the dog. As a dog lover, I do not regard that as

:11:22.:11:27.

derogatory at all! What is the point of this white paper? It is a

:11:28.:11:30.

response to the request was that it was a very serious view of the SNP,

:11:31.:11:34.

quite a lot of Labour people and a few conservatives that needed a

:11:35.:11:38.

formal White Paper. The Government felt the very long and detailed

:11:39.:11:42.

analysis in the Prime Minister's beach that the argument but

:11:43.:11:46.

Parliament did not agree in some areas. We hear what you say. They

:11:47.:11:53.

are trying to bring the whole country together. If some people

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want more information, they will now have the White Paper. Will it tell

:12:00.:12:02.

us any more than what we learned in the Lancaster house speech? It will

:12:03.:12:08.

have a bit more in it but the fundamentals were set out in the

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Prime Minister's speech. I thought it was a great speech, extremely

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detailed. You have won every argument. This is not about me. I

:12:20.:12:24.

meant your side. It is about a Brexit that will work. The Leave

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campaign have been very careful to explain you could not be in the

:12:32.:12:33.

single market if you were leaving the EU. That is something the two

:12:34.:12:38.

campaigns agreed about. The remaining campaign went around the

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country pointing out this fact. -- Remain campaign. There was still

:12:48.:12:51.

some doubts amongst clever people that we might be able to stay in the

:12:52.:12:56.

single market. It is simply not in offer. I am trying to avoid

:12:57.:13:00.

litigating the referendum again, so I won't go down that alleyway you

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have opened for me. What is the most important amendment you would like

:13:07.:13:12.

to see to Article 50? We have tabled a number. We need to get a

:13:13.:13:16.

meaningful vote at the end of the process. Can you explain to our

:13:17.:13:21.

viewers, a meaningful vote at the end of the process, what are we

:13:22.:13:25.

talking about? We do not want to vote at a point where it is take it

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or leave it. We want to be able to vote at the point at which we can

:13:31.:13:35.

say to the Government, we need to go back and do better. I think this

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whole Mrs May, High Court, Supreme Court, should MPs decide not issue

:13:42.:13:46.

is a red herring. There is nothing to be decided at the moment.

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Everybody has agreed the result of the referendum means we should

:13:51.:13:54.

negotiate terms for leaving. The real issue and what Mrs May wants to

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avoid is exactly the one you suggest. MPs might get involved at

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the end of the process. So far, all the Government can do is issue a

:14:04.:14:09.

wish list. This White Paper will be another item on the wish list was

:14:10.:14:13.

that were MPs to get involved then, that would be a serious problem for

:14:14.:14:16.

the Government. Would it? Would it have fears for you? I do not think

:14:17.:14:24.

it is a problem to keep the House properly informed. I agree with the

:14:25.:14:29.

implication. If you are in intense negotiations and some of it is

:14:30.:14:34.

probably secret, a lot of them will be leaked in ways that suit people

:14:35.:14:38.

leaking them rather than giving an accurate view of what is going on,

:14:39.:14:42.

it is necessary to trust your negotiators and see what is the best

:14:43.:14:45.

deal they can do and then able bring that back and tell us. I would urge

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everybody that it is in the national interest whether you remain or leave

:14:51.:14:53.

that you get the best possible relationship with the EU when you

:14:54.:14:58.

leave. In order to do that, you have to trust your government to some

:14:59.:15:05.

extent. If you are highlighting what could go wrong, what are the alleged

:15:06.:15:07.

weaknesses in the British position, that undermines our negotiators. You

:15:08.:15:13.

are saying, as we come to the end of the process, we have the main

:15:14.:15:18.

outlines of the deal that has been done but not yet signed, I think, is

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what you're saying is that what it is? The Government says, this is

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what we have negotiated. This is it. We come to you to get of Parliament

:15:28.:15:29.

to sign this deal. That is right and that is the right

:15:30.:15:39.

way to do it. The government has said when it finally has a political

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agreement with its former partners in the commission then we will get a

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vote on the house and whether we would like to accept that or whether

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it would be better not to. A lot of us thinking that leaving as we are

:15:51.:15:58.

is fine, we don't think there is any great problem with that. We think it

:15:59.:16:02.

gives you good access to the single market but you can get even better

:16:03.:16:05.

access and that is what the negotiation will be about. Access is

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key and John was wrong when he said that no Leave campaigners said we

:16:13.:16:17.

should be in the single market, one of his campaigners was a very clear.

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Boris Johnson and Michael Gove as well as David Cameron and George

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Osborne made it clear that leaving the EU meant ceasing to be a member

:16:31.:16:36.

of the single market. Many of those seeking to seal the votes said very

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differently but the question is what other benefits and that is why this

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is important, in the house the other week David Davis said he wanted the

:16:47.:16:51.

exact same benefits as being in the single market. The benchmark for the

:16:52.:16:55.

deal. If he does not achieve it we need the right to reject it. To

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answer John's points directly, if we have a vote right at the end of the

:17:02.:17:05.

process when the Prime Minister has the pain in her hand, shall I sign

:17:06.:17:13.

it or not, and Parliament Parliament says no, we are in an entirely new

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situation. We might be thrown out, the European Union might come back

:17:19.:17:21.

and say as your Parliament does not want to leave can recall the whole

:17:22.:17:25.

thing off? We don't know what situation it would bring and that is

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what Theresa May is afraid of. There is no way they can turn around and

:17:31.:17:34.

deny our Article 50 letter announcing withdrawal and there is

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no way that Parliament can suddenly reversed the enormous majorities we

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have had on two separate occasions when we debated this matter to the

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wishes of the British people. The issues going on from here are about

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what kind of new relationship do we want. We want the best possible,

:17:54.:17:58.

close as possible... What happens Parliament doesn't like the deal?

:17:59.:18:07.

They can see no. It will of course lead on to negotiating all sorts of

:18:08.:18:12.

things. But you will be out of the European Union. You are not saying

:18:13.:18:18.

that if you vote to reject this you leave on WTO rules, you are saying

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if you vote to reject this either we don't leave for we try to get a

:18:24.:18:28.

better deal if the Europeans agree? That is exactly right because it's

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not acceptable for the Prime Minister to hold a gun to the head

:18:32.:18:35.

of parliament and there will be two votes, the vote on the divorce

:18:36.:18:40.

settlement in relation to Article 50 but there should be a vote on the

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future terms, the terms of our future relationship and that is

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critical and it has to be meaningful. Well, I'm sorry, we need

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to move on, you'll probably want to hear the report of the Bank of

:18:55.:18:58.

England so I'm going to have to cut you all off. Every dog has its day

:18:59.:18:59.

we move on. Now in the last few minutes

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the Bank of England have published their quarterly inflation

:19:05.:19:07.

report with their predictions Let's talk to our Economics Editor,

:19:08.:19:09.

Kamal Ahmed, who is at the bank. Is this another Michael Fish moment

:19:10.:19:20.

when the Bank of England got it wrong about its proposed Brexit

:19:21.:19:28.

slump? We could use a bed of Michael Fish with the weather here this

:19:29.:19:33.

afternoon. It is a very substantial upgrade. Let's go through the last

:19:34.:19:39.

three inflation reports produced since the referendum, in August it

:19:40.:19:44.

was sort of peak gloom from the bank. It slashed its growth forecast

:19:45.:19:56.

for 2017 down to zero point 8%, down by 1.2%. Its next quarterly

:19:57.:20:01.

inflation report in November increased that forecast to 1.4%, one

:20:02.:20:06.

of the fastest increases the bank had ever given to a forecast. And

:20:07.:20:14.

then today it's done the same again. 1.4% up to 2% growth this year. It

:20:15.:20:20.

is now looking, many critics will say that August inflation report was

:20:21.:20:24.

simply far too gloomy about the effects of Brexit on consumers, on

:20:25.:20:30.

businesses, and of course seemed to believe that the simple vote for

:20:31.:20:35.

Brexit would affect the economy rather than the actual exit from the

:20:36.:20:40.

European Union. There are a couple of mitigating factors of course,

:20:41.:20:45.

there has been stimulus pumped into the economy since the referendum,

:20:46.:20:48.

the bank itself cutting interest rates and the Autumn Statement also

:20:49.:20:53.

said that deficit reduction targets would be loosened and there would be

:20:54.:20:55.

more stimulus for infrastructure. So the

:20:56.:21:08.

bank will say that has happened so the economy is now performing better

:21:09.:21:10.

but Mark Carney, the Governor of the Bank of England will be braced for

:21:11.:21:13.

another day of pretty hefty criticism. But we should of course

:21:14.:21:16.

remember that we have not yet left the European Union and the bank is

:21:17.:21:20.

warning that the inflation risk is coming through because of the

:21:21.:21:25.

decline in the value of sterling and that could eat into real incomes and

:21:26.:21:30.

also a slightly more hawkish feel on interest rates as inflation rises,

:21:31.:21:37.

as the economy strengthens, will the bank start looking at raising those

:21:38.:21:41.

historically low rates which have been kept today at 0.25%. Thank you

:21:42.:21:45.

Kamal had Why has the set of

:21:46.:21:51.

the Daily Politics, complete with figures of Andrew

:21:52.:21:55.

and me, been built in Lego? Was it a) a BBC cost

:21:56.:21:58.

cutting measure... b) the programme features

:21:59.:22:00.

in the sequel to The Lego Movie... c) to promote Paisley's bid

:22:01.:22:03.

to become City of Culture in 2021... At the end of the show Matthew

:22:04.:22:06.

will give us the correct answer. he is looking puzzled.

:22:07.:22:17.

Deeply. We've been waiting almost 50 years

:22:18.:22:22.

for a decision on where to build a third airport runway in the south

:22:23.:22:25.

east of England, and today the Government finally published

:22:26.:22:28.

more detail on its plans to expand It marks the start of a 16 week

:22:29.:22:30.

consultation period when critics of the plan will no doubt

:22:31.:22:34.

make their views heard. After that, MPs will have the chance

:22:35.:22:37.

to scrutinise the proposals - before a final vote either

:22:38.:22:40.

later this year or next. Earlier this morning,

:22:41.:22:42.

the Transport Secretary Chris Grayling set out the Government's

:22:43.:22:44.

case for backing Heathrow. Unless we take action every London

:22:45.:22:52.

airport is forecast to be full by 2040 and almost entirely

:22:53.:22:55.

full by 2030. Doing nothing is no longer a choice

:22:56.:22:57.

we can afford to make. Without expansion constraints

:22:58.:23:00.

on the aviation sector would impose increasing costs on the rest

:23:01.:23:02.

of the economy over time, lowering economic output by making

:23:03.:23:05.

aviation more expensive and less With knock-on effects

:23:06.:23:07.

in lost trade, tourism Mr Speaker this government believes

:23:08.:23:12.

that a new Northwest runway at Heathrow best delivers the need

:23:13.:23:17.

for additional airports capacity and the draft airports national

:23:18.:23:21.

policy statement sets out this And we're joined now

:23:22.:23:23.

by the Conservative MP, Kwasi Kwarteng, who's in favour

:23:24.:23:35.

of Heathrow's expansion, and Labour's Andy Slaughter,

:23:36.:23:37.

who has campaigned against it. We asked to speak to a minister

:23:38.:23:39.

but were told no-one was available. Kwasi Kwarteng, is there any chance

:23:40.:23:49.

now that there won't be a runway, a third runway at Heathrow? We have

:23:50.:23:53.

two C, as your piece described we have had this debate for 50 years so

:23:54.:23:59.

you cannot say this will never happen but this is the clearest

:24:00.:24:05.

indication we have had in years. A 16 week consultation period, at that

:24:06.:24:10.

period goes the way of the government, it is a statutory

:24:11.:24:17.

requirement, why does not then move, why doesn't it start? We have to get

:24:18.:24:21.

a vote through Parliament and I think that will go through without

:24:22.:24:27.

any controversy. I also feel that people feel that it's long overdue,

:24:28.:24:32.

this action. But the vote might not be until next year? I think it might

:24:33.:24:37.

be this autumn because there are other things which will take

:24:38.:24:41.

Parliament 's time. I think it will be this year. Is it your aim still

:24:42.:24:48.

to stop it or try to make it more acceptable? We aim to stop it. It's

:24:49.:24:54.

a 30 year campaign in west London against Heathrow expansion, it is an

:24:55.:25:00.

important major driver of the economy but an extra quarter of a

:25:01.:25:04.

million flights over one of the most densely populated areas anywhere and

:25:05.:25:07.

all the problems which have not been resolved. They don't have any

:25:08.:25:16.

answers on the key issues of noise, air quality, congestion, on the

:25:17.:25:22.

roads and public transport in the area. Those are unresolvable

:25:23.:25:26.

problems. The government says there will be a legally binding noise

:25:27.:25:33.

limit, a ban of six and a half hours on night flights and it has to

:25:34.:25:38.

ensure current levels of atmospheric pollution are not exceeded. We have

:25:39.:25:44.

heard are of this before. Every promises always broken. Chris

:25:45.:25:47.

Grayling himself says he is a gut instinct politician, it's why the

:25:48.:25:52.

justice system is in a terrible position because he made lots of

:25:53.:26:00.

decisions which had to be reversed. Are these legitimate? They are, it

:26:01.:26:04.

would be wrong to say there are no problems and we can just go and

:26:05.:26:07.

bulldoze our way to a solution. But clearly the endless debate, the

:26:08.:26:12.

almost theological nature of this discussion without conclusion has to

:26:13.:26:17.

end. The government has to be commended for taking a robust

:26:18.:26:21.

stance. I think you're right about environmental safeguards and I think

:26:22.:26:25.

they can be resolved. A lot of the noise pollution we saw in the 80s

:26:26.:26:29.

and early 90s in terms of the aircraft can be mitigated. With the

:26:30.:26:34.

development of technology we can go some way to addressing a lot of

:26:35.:26:39.

these concerns. Noise pollution has been going down for a long time from

:26:40.:26:43.

aircraft and green transport to and from airports is going up and can go

:26:44.:26:48.

up. But I think there is a reason why it may not happen, I am in

:26:49.:26:52.

favour of it but I think a reason it might not happen which has not been

:26:53.:26:56.

much discussed is it has to be financed and has not been much of

:26:57.:27:01.

that. The airport is paying for most of it and the taxpayer I assume pay

:27:02.:27:07.

for a chunk of the necessary infrastructure? We need to look at

:27:08.:27:11.

the figures before we can be sure. I think that's a good point about the

:27:12.:27:15.

infrastructure, the roads on the trains and services to the airport.

:27:16.:27:20.

In terms of the third runway itself, my understanding was that would be

:27:21.:27:24.

privately financed and the company could issue a bond to pay for

:27:25.:27:29.

reconstruction and development. Is it not the case, your concerns

:27:30.:27:33.

notwithstanding, there is a clear majority in the Commons for this? It

:27:34.:27:40.

depends what you mean by for this? With reservations, but those are the

:27:41.:27:45.

problems which need to be resolved. Labour policy is to say certain

:27:46.:27:49.

tests have to be met including the environmental tests and those are

:27:50.:27:52.

not being met. Matthew is right about the financing, up to ?20

:27:53.:27:58.

billion of public money needed to do this. The decision was made last

:27:59.:28:05.

time and it emerged the benefits of Heathrow had been grossly

:28:06.:28:07.

exaggerated. Had they built at Gatwick it would've been simple,

:28:08.:28:11.

straightforward and cheaper and it would have happened. Heathrow is so

:28:12.:28:17.

complex and expensive. Can I ask, you said earlier it is unacceptable

:28:18.:28:20.

that large number of aircraft should be flying across densely populated

:28:21.:28:25.

areas, I take it you are in favour of Heathrow completely? It's a deal,

:28:26.:28:31.

you would not have put Heathrow there but it is there now. The first

:28:32.:28:37.

thing I said is that the solution of Boris Johnson is mad. It provides a

:28:38.:28:42.

lot of jobs and drives the economy but there are many new communities

:28:43.:28:46.

who will be an flight paths for the first time and its 250,000

:28:47.:28:51.

additional flights. No other city in the Western world would put up with

:28:52.:28:56.

this. I think that position is inherently flawed because the

:28:57.:28:59.

economy is expanding so either Heathrow contracts physically or

:29:00.:29:05.

stays the same. He thinks it should stay the same and I think that's

:29:06.:29:11.

nonsense for the hub airport to stay the same whilst the rest of the

:29:12.:29:15.

world grows at 3% per year. If this is about as making our way in the

:29:16.:29:19.

world, you would either close down Heathrow and build a new hub or he

:29:20.:29:23.

would expand it, you would not just keep it frozen until kingdom come. I

:29:24.:29:29.

don't think anybody thinks hub airports are applicable, it might

:29:30.:29:33.

work to Dubai but in London you have a massive area of London and the

:29:34.:29:36.

south-east which need more than one major airport. Which European

:29:37.:29:42.

economy doesn't have one? You have more than one major airport in New

:29:43.:29:48.

York. I said European. You can have lots in America because it's huge.

:29:49.:29:57.

Paris. I follow this very carefully. Charles de Gaulle is a hub airport,

:29:58.:30:02.

it has also trebled the number of runways it has. Ship all is the

:30:03.:30:11.

same, as is Madrid. You are not comparing like with like. Yes

:30:12.:30:17.

Heathrow will remain a major airport as it is, but I don't think you need

:30:18.:30:22.

a super hub. You need an number of airports, you already have five

:30:23.:30:25.

serving London and some of those... There is a huge growth in

:30:26.:30:31.

point-to-point traffic. Lets cut to the chase, Andrew is a good

:30:32.:30:36.

constituency MP and in his constituency... Do not patronise

:30:37.:30:40.

me... Your constituency is? Hammersmith. There are a lot of

:30:41.:30:48.

constituency MPs making capable arguments against it. In the

:30:49.:30:52.

national interest, even the SNP are onside, this is one area of

:30:53.:30:56.

government policy the SMP support the government. Because they want

:30:57.:31:03.

more flights into Heathrow. I am not saying it's not a valid reason,

:31:04.:31:07.

because a lot of the domestic flights over the years have been

:31:08.:31:10.

squeezed out of Heathrow because there is no room and they are not as

:31:11.:31:14.

profitable on the landing charges as the long haul flights. Absolutely

:31:15.:31:20.

right and I think the house as a whole, forgive me almost certainly

:31:21.:31:22.

vote for Heathrow with a big majority. Birmingham will be 30

:31:23.:31:28.

minutes from here when each is too is built, we are looking at a narrow

:31:29.:31:33.

issue, it's about more than Heathrow. Kiwi we better leave it

:31:34.:31:38.

there. The date continues for another 50 years!

:31:39.:31:43.

Now, is the Government preparing to use international

:31:44.:31:45.

As we prepare for a post-Brexit world, the department

:31:46.:31:49.

for international development has unveiled a new economic strategy.

:31:50.:31:52.

But with tight restrictions on how aid can be dispensed,

:31:53.:31:56.

what can the Government expect in return?

:31:57.:31:58.

Part of David Cameron's legacy was a fixed international aid budget

:31:59.:32:06.

that guaranteed independence of its department and promised to

:32:07.:32:10.

When Priti Patel was appointed to run the department

:32:11.:32:17.

by his successor Theresa May it raised eyebrows as she once called

:32:18.:32:22.

Visiting Kenya last year, Priti Patel said aid could be used

:32:23.:32:29.

British soft power is exactly where our aid and other

:32:30.:32:36.

relationships around the world can come together to deliver

:32:37.:32:38.

in our national interest and deliver for Britain when it comes to free

:32:39.:32:41.

trade arrangements, free trade agreements

:32:42.:32:43.

This week she launched a new economic strategy

:32:44.:32:55.

to boost the economies for the world's poorest countries.

:32:56.:32:57.

She wants better trading partners for the UK and to boost

:32:58.:33:00.

the City of London's role in the developing world.

:33:01.:33:03.

Owen Barder was once in charge of Development and Effectiveness

:33:04.:33:06.

at the Department for International Development.

:33:07.:33:08.

The good news is this is a shift to fixing jobs and growth

:33:09.:33:12.

in the developing world and that's what they need and we

:33:13.:33:15.

The risk is that this is seen as a way of using aid money to help

:33:16.:33:23.

British business rather than to help developing countries industrialise.

:33:24.:33:29.

That isn't just a theoretical risk, we've seen that

:33:30.:33:31.

One famous example was over 20 years ago and the eye wateringly

:33:32.:33:35.

British aid money was siphoned off as part of an arms deal

:33:36.:33:41.

Anti-poverty campaigners warn of the dangers of big

:33:42.:33:46.

British businesses going into developing countries.

:33:47.:33:51.

That could be a good thing but it could certainly be a very bad thing

:33:52.:33:55.

if the regulatory framework is not in place in those countries to use

:33:56.:33:58.

that money, that wealth that's brought in to the benefit

:33:59.:34:00.

of its citizens, particularly its poorest citizens.

:34:01.:34:03.

The Department for International Development has been a department

:34:04.:34:05.

Before that it was a part of the Foreign Office

:34:06.:34:11.

for most of the 70s, 80s and 90s.

:34:12.:34:12.

That change was made to stop short term political and economic

:34:13.:34:15.

objectives influencing it aims of poverty reduction

:34:16.:34:18.

Grant Shapps was at one time a minister at both

:34:19.:34:28.

the Foreign Office and Department for International

:34:29.:34:29.

He was surprised by what his access to confidential papers

:34:30.:34:35.

in both departments at the same time revealed.

:34:36.:34:38.

On one hand we would be trying to get consular access to half

:34:39.:34:42.

a dozen Brits illegally locked up in a country and then on the other

:34:43.:34:45.

side, literally in my other ministerial box from the other

:34:46.:34:48.

department, we would be signing off half ?1 billion

:34:49.:34:53.

Ministers should either be routinely joint and serve in both departments

:34:54.:35:09.

to get a proper view of what is really going on, or we go

:35:10.:35:13.

The former minister said four current Cabinet

:35:14.:35:16.

The department simply said intensifying development efforts

:35:17.:35:19.

was the key to an outward looking Britain.

:35:20.:35:20.

And I'm joined now by the Conservative MP,

:35:21.:35:22.

Peter Bone, and the former International Development Minister

:35:23.:35:24.

Welcome to both of you. Where you disappointed that one of Mrs May's

:35:25.:35:35.

first acts was to renew your party bus back to spending .7% of GDP on

:35:36.:35:40.

aid? I am never disappointed with our excellent Prime Minister. It was

:35:41.:35:44.

an act of Parliament and she was bound to support it. Does it solve

:35:45.:35:50.

the problem? I do not think aid is the solution, I think trade is the

:35:51.:35:54.

solution. Coming out of the EU gives a great chance to allow developing

:35:55.:35:58.

countries to trade with this country. You do not support it. You

:35:59.:36:04.

would not have a target or commitment at all? I think it is

:36:05.:36:08.

ridiculous. I think whatever government spending needs to be

:36:09.:36:13.

focused on the need for it. We are the biggest donor of aid in the

:36:14.:36:18.

world. Anyone to topic is America with President Trump. So, you would

:36:19.:36:24.

increase it? Talking about trade rather than aid... When we took over

:36:25.:36:33.

in 1997, we changed it from a Foreign Aid Department to the

:36:34.:36:38.

Foreign Office. It deals with trade and investment. When I was a

:36:39.:36:41.

minister, I was on a number of boards of developments to look at

:36:42.:36:49.

ways to invest in developing countries. Incidentally, I want the

:36:50.:36:54.

Department for International to and to be abolished. I want it to be

:36:55.:36:59.

abolished. What would you like in its place? I want it successful. We

:37:00.:37:05.

aim to get poverty out of every country in the world. Now we have

:37:06.:37:10.

done it in Latin America. It is happening in Asia. Most of the

:37:11.:37:14.

countries in Asia are no longer poor. We still need to do in Africa.

:37:15.:37:19.

We need to get money and education into Africa. Money into the health

:37:20.:37:23.

service in Africa, so we can trade with them. They would become richer

:37:24.:37:27.

countries and we do not need international development. There are

:37:28.:37:34.

risks associated to linking aid, or international aid money, to securing

:37:35.:37:39.

trade deals, aren't there? Yes. I do not think that is what we should be

:37:40.:37:43.

doing. I am saying we should be opening our markets. With that of

:37:44.:37:49.

having a 600% Harrop on an agricultural product, allow the

:37:50.:37:52.

developing countries to sell in. -- tariff. Coffee goes into Germany as

:37:53.:38:00.

a raw product. It is the Germans who process it. If they were to process

:38:01.:38:06.

it in Africa, they are hit with a huge tariff. Get rid of the tariffs

:38:07.:38:10.

and those countries will prosper and we will not have to give so much in

:38:11.:38:18.

aid. You are old enough to remember the per gal damn scandal. It had no

:38:19.:38:28.

development value at all. Money was put into it because of pressure from

:38:29.:38:34.

the construction company. That is completely wrong. They certainly do

:38:35.:38:44.

not want to do that again. That is an interesting rewriting of that

:38:45.:38:51.

history. This did highlight the dangers of linking aid to trade

:38:52.:39:00.

deals. It was deemed to be unlawful. Is it not one of the risks? It can

:39:01.:39:08.

be taken too far. This is a muddy issue. Pergau Dam and a kind of

:39:09.:39:12.

thing is an example of how if you link to narrowly to commercial

:39:13.:39:16.

interests, things can go wrong. In a country like our own, if you are

:39:17.:39:20.

shelling out large sums of money to foreign countries, we do want to

:39:21.:39:26.

help our own industry, our own exporters. I agree in the

:39:27.:39:44.

abolition of Dfid. It has drifted into terrible Chacon. It has had

:39:45.:39:54.

ministers in charge who do not believe what it is doing and what it

:39:55.:39:58.

should not be doing that when Clare Short and I were there, it did what

:39:59.:40:02.

we wanted. We really created a development department. Is there not

:40:03.:40:07.

a contradiction that has been raised by Andrew Mitchell and Grant Shapps,

:40:08.:40:13.

who said if you have an international aid department doing

:40:14.:40:16.

something in a country like Yemen and the Foreign Office doing

:40:17.:40:19.

something completely different, then, again, you have a problem with

:40:20.:40:25.

your policy? That does not happen very often. I have been in a lot of

:40:26.:40:30.

the countries when I was minister. I met the ambassador. They help to

:40:31.:40:35.

coordinate work. Very often the development people are situated in

:40:36.:40:38.

the embassy and work very closely with the Foreign Office. I think

:40:39.:40:42.

they are isolated examples. I agree they should not happen. Do you think

:40:43.:40:48.

the .7 commitment will last? No, it will not. Hang on a minute. If you

:40:49.:40:55.

are right and all that wonderful work had been done, we would not

:40:56.:41:02.

have an international to the agency giving 12 billion, 13 billion, ?14

:41:03.:41:09.

billion? It is going to go up and up and is 50% more than it was a few

:41:10.:41:13.

years ago. If you were right, it would have worked and we would not

:41:14.:41:18.

have all of these countries. It has not worked because you are doling

:41:19.:41:22.

money out. Open your markets up so they can trade. I want to ask you.

:41:23.:41:27.

You said something earlier, it worked in Asia and you would do the

:41:28.:41:33.

same in Africa. Which Asian country has escaped poverty thanks to

:41:34.:41:37.

international aid. I do not think any of them have escape poverty.

:41:38.:41:47.

Which one is wealthier thanks to international aid? I think both

:41:48.:41:52.

India and China... China? In some of the poorest parts in China, work has

:41:53.:41:57.

been done in some of the poorest provinces which has helped. George's

:41:58.:42:07.

former colleague in the House of Commons, Frank Field used to say the

:42:08.:42:12.

problem of the poor is that they do not have enough money. The problem

:42:13.:42:15.

of the poor in the developing world as they do not have enough -- enough

:42:16.:42:20.

money. I am in favour of schemes giving money directly to the poor.

:42:21.:42:25.

We are doing that. Education and the health service in Africa are the

:42:26.:42:28.

priorities. Money is going to lead to the Government to educate

:42:29.:42:33.

children. No, not to the Government. Particularly girls. We need to move

:42:34.:42:41.

on. We leave it there. Another country that also need aid, but

:42:42.:42:43.

probably in a different way. Now, is the man who was thought

:42:44.:42:47.

to be the front runner in this year's French Presidential elections

:42:48.:42:51.

about to be forced out of the race? Francois Fillon is embroiled

:42:52.:42:54.

in scandal after accusations that he paid hundreds of thousands

:42:55.:42:57.

of euros to his wife So it's shaping up to be a pretty

:42:58.:42:59.

unpredictable contest. Benoit Hamon has been compared

:43:00.:43:04.

to Jeremy Corbyn and US Democrat candidate Bernie Sanders owing

:43:05.:43:14.

to his rebel status. He beat the favourite, Manuel Valls,

:43:15.:43:20.

to become the candidate for France's Socialist Party,

:43:21.:43:26.

which has been weakened by the unpopularity of the current

:43:27.:43:32.

Socialist president, He is not standing again for

:43:33.:43:34.

re-election. His policies include plans

:43:35.:43:42.

to introduce a 32-hour working week Francois Fillon is a former Prime

:43:43.:43:45.

Minister once called "Mr Nobody", who became the surprise winner

:43:46.:43:52.

of the centre-right Republican Among others he beat Nicolas

:43:53.:44:07.

Sarkozy, who had been president before.

:44:08.:44:09.

But he's been engulfed by scandal over large

:44:10.:44:11.

payments to his Welsh wife, Penelope, who Mr Fillon

:44:12.:44:13.

claims worked as his parliamentary assistant.

:44:14.:44:16.

People are still finding it hard to work out what she actually did. His

:44:17.:44:22.

children were also in different ways on the payroll as well.

:44:23.:44:24.

He's put forward a radical programme to roll back the state by raising

:44:25.:44:27.

the pension age to 65 and slashing public sector employment

:44:28.:44:32.

He does not talk so much about that now.

:44:33.:44:43.

Benefitting from Francois Fillon's woes is the far-right

:44:44.:44:44.

She's pledged a referendum on France's membership of the EU.

:44:45.:44:48.

But she's also targeted voters disillusioned

:44:49.:44:50.

by the traditional left, with plans to lower

:44:51.:45:00.

the retirement age to 60 and bolster public services.

:45:01.:45:08.

Emmanuel Macron was unknown in French politics until he became

:45:09.:45:10.

Francois Hollande's Economy Minister in 2014.

:45:11.:45:16.

He has fashioned his own cross-party organisation, En Marche!,

:45:17.:45:23.

taking policies from both the left and right.

:45:24.:45:31.

He is a former Rothschild investment banker.

:45:32.:45:34.

He would scrap France's 35-hour working week for younger workers

:45:35.:45:36.

but make older workers work fewer hours.

:45:37.:45:43.

These are the main runners and riders, there are many more but

:45:44.:45:57.

these are the top format. -- the top four.

:45:58.:45:58.

We're joined now by the French journalist and commentator

:45:59.:46:01.

Let me ask you about Francois Fillon, is he below the water line

:46:02.:46:19.

now? There is a sense of panic. The first to do primary is where the

:46:20.:46:22.

socialist at the last election, and it was the first time the

:46:23.:46:28.

centre-right did them and they were very successful, 4 million voters.

:46:29.:46:32.

It was a democratic success but a huge surprise since four months, he

:46:33.:46:43.

was thought to be the frontrunner and the next French president.

:46:44.:46:47.

However the person who actually beaten comfortably was Francois

:46:48.:46:53.

Fillon, the former Mr nobody with the Welsh wife. I am trying to move

:46:54.:46:58.

forward is to find out, more revelations coming out this week,

:46:59.:47:06.

Torquay may to stand down, he said prosecutors moved against him, he

:47:07.:47:12.

said he would stand down but he is fighting it at the moment, will he

:47:13.:47:17.

survive? The answer to that is nobody knows. He believes he will,

:47:18.:47:23.

he has asked for 15 days grace from his party who as recently as last

:47:24.:47:27.

night in Parliament were seeing the absolutely back him. He is saying it

:47:28.:47:32.

is a plot from the media. And the Socialist party he said. Yes, but

:47:33.:47:39.

not only. He says it's almost a coup d'etat against him. I have a couple

:47:40.:47:47.

of other things, if he does stand down, will the Republicans have to

:47:48.:47:52.

have another primary? There are many scenarios, that one would take too

:47:53.:47:55.

long, there is no alternative plan and that is the crucial question.

:47:56.:48:01.

But I understand as of right now he cannot last another 15 days, it is

:48:02.:48:08.

thought, and the man who ruled himself out two days ago and as

:48:09.:48:12.

recently as last night is now being approached by senior members of the

:48:13.:48:18.

party to say he should think again. We don't have much time, let me come

:48:19.:48:25.

to the Socialists, they have chosen, against all expectations, by far the

:48:26.:48:31.

most left wing of the primary candidates. A kind of Jeremy Corbyn.

:48:32.:48:37.

And more I would suggest, even Jeremy Corbyn has not suggested

:48:38.:48:42.

taxing robots. But it did not matter who they chose, the social list does

:48:43.:48:47.

not get through to the second round? You have to put that now in a

:48:48.:48:53.

different tense. Didn't. Because of the situation which is unfolding,

:48:54.:49:00.

huge programme tonight, French media have found an extract of Penelope

:49:01.:49:11.

saying she never worked for her husband Francois Fillon. Then he's

:49:12.:49:20.

toast. It sounds like it. In that game on. Benoit Hamon has just spent

:49:21.:49:26.

an hour with the French president, OK the president did not come out

:49:27.:49:29.

and greet him which means it's not a straight ballet. He recently had a

:49:30.:49:38.

4% approval rating, the president, so I don't understand how that

:49:39.:49:45.

helps? Because there will be a really of information and next week

:49:46.:49:49.

we could see, all bets are off to stop that is great because it makes

:49:50.:49:55.

it unpredictable but even if it is unpredictable all the polling would

:49:56.:49:58.

suggest that you get into the second round for the play-off is going to

:49:59.:50:05.

be between the Republican candidate, Marine Le Pen and Emmanuel Macron.

:50:06.:50:10.

That is right, the extraordinary situation, you cannot underline it

:50:11.:50:14.

enough, and elected, people thought it was a bubble and would not last,

:50:15.:50:20.

so could this and elected former banker become the next French

:50:21.:50:24.

president? It is possible. There is a French phenomenon you are aware of

:50:25.:50:29.

which is what is called the Republican pact, in brands unlike in

:50:30.:50:32.

the naked states there are two rounds so people bought protest --

:50:33.:50:42.

in France, unlike in the United States, there are two rounds so

:50:43.:50:45.

people vote in protest in the first round. It is interesting in this

:50:46.:51:02.

year that many of us thought could be the year of European insurgency,

:51:03.:51:06.

the phenomenon of Brexit and Donald Trump coming to European elections,

:51:07.:51:14.

it is possible France will elect a centrist, mainstream president. Last

:51:15.:51:20.

week I placed a substantial bet on Emmanuel Macron. It seems not only

:51:21.:51:24.

could he capture the centre but he will be attractive to the left given

:51:25.:51:28.

that the left have elected a fairly mad candidate of their own. So from

:51:29.:51:37.

his position... I would say radical. Is he not considered independent? He

:51:38.:51:44.

is saying he is not right for left and right now it is possible he

:51:45.:51:48.

would be. I know the Anglo-Saxon press, not this programme, love to

:51:49.:51:52.

believe France will have a Marine Le Pen president. I have not seen that.

:51:53.:52:02.

I am sure you have not. Name one. I am talking about the press, in

:52:03.:52:06.

general terms. I keep talking about Marine Le Pen, I keep being asked

:52:07.:52:13.

about her which is the point. If it is Emmanuel Macron which is still

:52:14.:52:21.

unpredictable, he will not have any MP's in Parliament. This is where he

:52:22.:52:26.

is trying to already, and he desperately needs to do that, in

:52:27.:52:32.

terms of his support. He needs to get people on board. He does not

:52:33.:52:42.

have a party, he has a movement. We are in uncharted territory. The

:52:43.:52:47.

parliamentary elections are? Weeks later. The second round is on May

:52:48.:52:53.

the 7th to determine the president and a couple of weeks after that and

:52:54.:52:57.

new parliament is elected, he will not be able to run MPs, deputies for

:52:58.:53:04.

that assembly. Well, you know, that is reasoning how things have been in

:53:05.:53:09.

the past. What we are witnessing, I think what we saw with Brexit and

:53:10.:53:12.

have just seen with Donald Trump, and what we are seeing in France,

:53:13.:53:18.

French voters did not want former presidents, they did not want a

:53:19.:53:25.

rerun of the previous election. They did not want Francois Hollande who

:53:26.:53:31.

is somewhat regretting not running now apparently but I don't know why.

:53:32.:53:37.

Too late! Yes, and the fact is that by the 9th of March which is another

:53:38.:53:42.

important point, by the 9th of March who ever is going to stand for the

:53:43.:53:47.

French centre-right has to have not only said an approved candidate but

:53:48.:53:52.

have 500 signatures of Mayor or MPs and the question is open. We have

:53:53.:53:59.

two stop it the cause we are out of time, but we will come back to it

:54:00.:54:05.

because it is just as interesting as the American election. Briefly the

:54:06.:54:13.

White Paper has been published. Is it right?

:54:14.:54:20.

Now - yesterday the European Parliament debated Donald Trump.

:54:21.:54:22.

The European Council President has already identified

:54:23.:54:24.

President Trump's Administration as one of the threats

:54:25.:54:26.

facing the EU - alongside so-called Islamic State,

:54:27.:54:28.

Nigel Farage made the most of his opportunity to speak in the debate

:54:29.:54:32.

A Labour MEP - Seb Dance - who was sitting behind the former

:54:33.:54:38.

Ukip leader found another way of getting his message across.

:54:39.:54:42.

You see, what has happened here is somebody has stood

:54:43.:54:47.

on a manifesto for election, got into office, and within one week

:54:48.:54:51.

said that he will hold face with his own electorate.

:54:52.:54:55.

Unlike the system we have in the European Union,

:54:56.:55:04.

where the unelected commissioners have the sole right to propose

:55:05.:55:09.

legislation so I'm sure it's a great shock to you to see that a genuinely

:55:10.:55:14.

elected Democrat is doing what he was put in to do.

:55:15.:55:18.

And out of institutional respect, President, to the truth,

:55:19.:55:21.

perhaps you will understand and agree with me that

:55:22.:55:25.

within the European form of lawmaking, it's the unelected

:55:26.:55:27.

commission that have the sole right to propose legislation.

:55:28.:55:32.

If I'm wrong in saying that you can throw me out of this

:55:33.:55:35.

parliament right here, right now, this afternoon.

:55:36.:55:43.

And the Labour MP Seb Dance, who you saw holding that piece

:55:44.:55:45.

of paper there and the Ukip MEP, Bill Etheridge, who has made

:55:46.:55:48.

a complaint about Seb's behaviour, join me now from Brussels.

:55:49.:55:55.

Seb Dance first of all, was that a mature and reasonable way to make

:55:56.:56:03.

your point? Well, I think you can question whether it was

:56:04.:56:06.

sophisticated but it was an effective way of making a point.

:56:07.:56:10.

It's a time-limited debate and it's frustrating when you know that Nigel

:56:11.:56:14.

Farage will have three minutes uninterrupted so I am afraid in my

:56:15.:56:17.

frustration I did the only thing I could think of and raised a little

:56:18.:56:23.

sign making a poignant point. Yes but he is the leader of the grouping

:56:24.:56:28.

he represents, presumably why he had those minutes to speak, that is

:56:29.:56:33.

legitimate, you said he was lying, about what? Well I was making the

:56:34.:56:39.

general point that he has of course scapegoated immigrants and said

:56:40.:56:43.

immigrants are the cause of all the problems we have, whether its

:56:44.:56:47.

pressure on public services, the economy, when nothing could be

:56:48.:56:51.

further from the truth. But in the comments he made he said a number of

:56:52.:56:55.

things which are not true, he said president Obama had enacted extreme

:56:56.:56:59.

vetting when he had not, he had not banned people coming from Iraq as he

:57:00.:57:04.

claimed. He introduced a restriction on a particular type of Visa. The

:57:05.:57:08.

commission is not the sole arbiter of legislation. We only have a few

:57:09.:57:16.

minutes, you have selected a formal complaint bill Etheridge, you said

:57:17.:57:20.

the behaviour was disgusting, pathetic and cowardly, is that not

:57:21.:57:26.

going that far? No, what was going on, the Labour Party for so many

:57:27.:57:31.

years has been winning elections, in control of situations and now their

:57:32.:57:36.

movement has gone, they have lost the referendum, they have lost the

:57:37.:57:40.

president and are about to lose two by-elections and all they have left,

:57:41.:57:46.

I am disappointed because I know Seb is not this kind of guy. If you're

:57:47.:57:51.

feeling triumphant why have you made a complaint? For a simple reason

:57:52.:57:57.

that if we had done that the rules would have come into play. This is

:57:58.:58:01.

what has to be done, sitting there with a little sign is not on. This

:58:02.:58:06.

is what the Labour Party is reduced to. They have no argument left, or

:58:07.:58:12.

they can do is call us names. We have run out of time, I will leave

:58:13.:58:15.

you to do sort out that dispute by yourselves.

:58:16.:58:16.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:17.:58:20.

The question was why has the set of the Daily Politics,

:58:21.:58:22.

complete with figures of Andrew and me, been built in Lego?

:58:23.:58:25.

b) the programme features in the sequel to The Lego Movie?

:58:26.:58:30.

c) to promote Paisley's bid to become City of Culture in 2021?

:58:31.:58:33.

So Matthew what's the correct answer?

:58:34.:58:39.

I think it was a new Legoland experience. You were wrong about

:58:40.:58:49.

that but you might be right about he's always right if you are

:58:50.:58:51.

pointing at Andrew. It's c) to promote Paisley's bid

:58:52.:58:52.

to become City of Culture in 2021. Andrew, of course,

:58:53.:58:55.

hails from Paisley. Morning folks, welcome to the daily

:58:56.:59:12.

politics. I think it's the future.

:59:13.:59:21.

The White Paper is 77 pages wrong. -- along.

:59:22.:59:24.

The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:59:25.:59:29.

And I'll be back tonight on BBC One at 11.45pm for This Week

:59:30.:59:32.

with Harriet Harman, Michael Portillo, Derek Hatton,

:59:33.:59:33.

And of course, the Daily Politics at noon tomorrow.

:59:34.:59:36.

To be in the Lords, you have to be punctual...

:59:37.:59:40.

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