24/02/2017 Daily Politics


24/02/2017

Andrew Neil analyses the results of the Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central by-elections with journalists Rafael Behr and Cristina Odone.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:46.

Jeremy Corbyn enters his own winter as Copland lose the by-election to

:00:47.:00:50.

the Conservatives. UKIP's leader Paul Nuttall failed

:00:51.:00:56.

in his attempt to win the other seat up for grabs last night in Stoke -

:00:57.:01:02.

despite a fall in Labour's We've got reaction and analysis

:01:03.:01:05.

of last night's results. Also on today's programme -

:01:06.:01:14.

we look at the prospects for power-sharing in Stormont

:01:15.:01:17.

after the snap elections And is the drive to get more women

:01:18.:01:18.

working in science putting unnecessary pressure on girls

:01:19.:01:23.

at school? All that in the next hour

:01:24.:01:34.

and with us for the whole of the programme today,

:01:35.:01:41.

the Guardian's Rafael Behr, and Cristina Odone from

:01:42.:01:43.

the Legatum Institute. So - it was a by-election night that

:01:44.:01:44.

both Labour and UKIP In the Cumbrian constituency

:01:45.:01:53.

of Copeland - held by Labour for eighty years -

:01:54.:02:02.

Jeremy Corbyn's party suffered a historic defeat

:02:03.:02:04.

to the Conservatives. The Conservative candidate,

:02:05.:02:08.

Trudy Harrison, was elected Compared to the 2015 general

:02:09.:02:10.

election, the Conservative share of the vote increased by 8% -

:02:11.:02:15.

a huge achievement, given that governing parties normally

:02:16.:02:17.

struggle in by-elections. Usually their share of the vote goes

:02:18.:02:30.

down. In fact it's the first time

:02:31.:02:35.

since 1982 that a governing party It was a different story for Labour

:02:36.:02:38.

- their vote was down by 5% compared to 2015,

:02:39.:02:42.

meaning that their candidate Third and fourth place went

:02:43.:02:44.

to the Liberal Democrats The Lib Dem vote was up by 4%

:02:45.:02:51.

while UKIP's vote fell by 9%. In Stoke the Labour candidate,

:02:52.:03:06.

Gareth Snell, staved off the UKIP challenge -

:03:07.:03:11.

winning the seat with 7,853 The Labour vote was

:03:12.:03:13.

actually down 2% on 2015. The UKIP leader, Paul Nuttall,

:03:14.:03:30.

came second with 5,233 votes. The UKIP vote was up by 2%,

:03:31.:03:35.

but they were hoping for a much bigger swing in order

:03:36.:03:38.

to win the seat. The Conservatives came

:03:39.:03:48.

a very close third. Their candidate got just 79

:03:49.:03:54.

fewer votes than UKIP. And in fourth place

:03:55.:04:06.

we have the Liberal Democrats. Just like in Copeland, their vote

:04:07.:04:11.

here in Stoke-on-Central went up, compared to the general

:04:12.:04:13.

election in 2015. Jeremy Corbyn has been taking

:04:14.:04:18.

questions from the media at an event in london this morning -

:04:19.:04:20.

including our reporter Mark Lobel. REPORTER: Mr Corbyn,

:04:21.:04:26.

is defeat in Copeland a disaster I've been talking to people

:04:27.:04:35.

there this morning. We campaigned to win it back,

:04:36.:04:40.

we campaigned to deliver for the people of Copeland

:04:41.:04:43.

the health service Theresa May has not given any

:04:44.:04:45.

guarantees whatsoever We can and we will,

:04:46.:04:48.

and we will deliver an NHS for all. We are the party that founded

:04:49.:04:55.

the NHS, we are the party that believes in health care free

:04:56.:05:00.

at the point of use That was the Labour leader's

:05:01.:05:02.

reaction. Speaking after the result

:05:03.:05:12.

was announced in Stoke, the UKIP leader said

:05:13.:05:14.

he was disappointed, but... This seat was number

:05:15.:05:16.

72 on our hit list. There's a lot more

:05:17.:05:25.

which will happen. We are not going anywhere,

:05:26.:05:26.

I am not going anywhere. So therefore we move

:05:27.:05:31.

on and our time will come. The Conservative Party Chairman,

:05:32.:05:38.

Patrick McLoughlin, gave his reaction to the result

:05:39.:05:39.

in Copeland this morning: Well, I think we've had a very good

:05:40.:05:44.

candidate in Trudy Harrison who has been a superb candidate and now

:05:45.:05:48.

Member of Parliament I think the leadership

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which the Prime Minister has given since she's become Prime Minister,

:05:51.:05:58.

and the clear way in which she said she wants to look at the issues

:05:59.:06:02.

which face the United Kingdom For them to lose a seat

:06:03.:06:05.

to the governing party, And that is a show of the way

:06:06.:06:10.

in which the Labour Party is just out of contact

:06:11.:06:15.

with what people are thinking. That is some of the reaction to last

:06:16.:06:30.

night's two by-elections. In Westminster people are still trying

:06:31.:06:33.

to come to terms with what it all means. Clearly a significant event

:06:34.:06:37.

in British politics. We will do more of that in the next hour on the

:06:38.:06:41.

Daily Politics give me your initial reaction to this. Copland and Stokes

:06:42.:06:46.

are different seats. The one thing that overwhelmingly comes across if

:06:47.:06:51.

you campaign to there is that Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the Labour

:06:52.:06:55.

Party, made it harder in Stoke. People felt they were lucky Paul

:06:56.:07:00.

Nuttall threw away an opportunity, that he had a stronger chance at the

:07:01.:07:04.

beginning of the campaign. Adding Copland, traditional Labour

:07:05.:07:10.

supporters, were saying on the doorstep to campaigners, you are

:07:11.:07:14.

insulting us with this man. -- and in Copeland. They said that he

:07:15.:07:24.

doesn't appear to want it. Anybody who campaigned for Labour in either

:07:25.:07:29.

of those seats will have come back under no illusions that the big

:07:30.:07:32.

problem for the party is that they have a leader nobody will ever make

:07:33.:07:36.

Prime Minister. Big implications for Labour. Conservatives delighted to

:07:37.:07:43.

win Copeland. De Paul not all throw this away? Absolutely. -- did Paul

:07:44.:07:56.

Nuttall. They were overwhelmingly in favour of Paul Nuttall there. They

:07:57.:08:03.

wanted to show that even though Ukip at won the referendum they still

:08:04.:08:06.

wanted to show they have something at its core. It wasn't forthcoming.

:08:07.:08:12.

I think he lost it, really. Last night, a crisis for the Labour

:08:13.:08:19.

Party. And Ukip. Certainly, people were saying, I spoke to people this

:08:20.:08:22.

morning who said that at the beginning of February they were

:08:23.:08:25.

worried Paul Nuttall would take the seat. But somebody described it as

:08:26.:08:30.

an anti-UKIP firewall in Stoke and it stops them cutting through.

:08:31.:08:33.

Christine is right, they are struggling to find a purpose.

:08:34.:08:36.

Theresa May deserves credit for this. It takes somebody to win a

:08:37.:08:42.

by-election as well as lose it. The fact people are expressing, whatever

:08:43.:08:46.

it is they are expressing by voting Conservative, we are used to saying

:08:47.:08:50.

there is this antiestablishment insurgency, well, hang on a moment,

:08:51.:08:53.

the people are voting for the vicar's daughter and taking the seat

:08:54.:09:01.

away from a Labour stronghold that it has been the years. Outside the

:09:02.:09:08.

very wealthy, the Richmonds in Yorkshire, the shire areas, Copeland

:09:09.:09:16.

is not one of those areas. It is an average income constituency. It has

:09:17.:09:24.

problems of low pay, not naturally fertile Conservative territory. And

:09:25.:09:27.

that is why I totally agree with you. It has been an extraordinary

:09:28.:09:33.

victory. Not only for the Conservatives but for Theresa May. I

:09:34.:09:36.

would not be surprised if this absolutely gives her the surge, the

:09:37.:09:43.

kind of emboldening effect that come who knows, snap election? No, do you

:09:44.:09:52.

think so? It is extraordinary. -- that, who knows. It is her style.

:09:53.:09:58.

But they will be looking at the numbers in Westminster. If Jeremy

:09:59.:10:01.

Corbyn stays he has a get out of jail free card. One Tory MPs said to

:10:02.:10:12.

me last night that the longer Mr Corbyn remains lead at the Labour

:10:13.:10:17.

Party, they thought the more damage would be done, and the longer it

:10:18.:10:22.

would take Labour to ever recover. It was they, kind of, brutal

:10:23.:10:26.

approach to things. Because the Labour brand starts to suffer.

:10:27.:10:32.

Starts? Let's be honest. The more liberal minded former remaining MPs

:10:33.:10:38.

were desperate for Labour to recover. They are saying we need the

:10:39.:10:43.

Labour Party to be on our side so that we have some threat to hang

:10:44.:10:47.

over the Prime Minister, saying you've got to give us more of what

:10:48.:10:48.

we want. That is the view in London. Our correspondent Iain Watson

:10:49.:10:52.

is in Whitehaven, in the heart The one that produced such a massive

:10:53.:11:07.

upset last night. It is the morning after the night before, give us a

:11:08.:11:08.

postmortem. I suppose it is. Calm after the

:11:09.:11:17.

storm. A closely fought election campaign, as you know, Andrew. I was

:11:18.:11:23.

told before midnight last night that Labour had lost. But the scale of

:11:24.:11:28.

the loss is quite surprising. They were hoping that the NHS campaign

:11:29.:11:33.

would have stemmed it but it wasn't the case. There are three

:11:34.:11:36.

interlinked problems. The first and most serious is trust. Jeremy Corbyn

:11:37.:11:41.

said what people wanted to hear. He said he was in favour of new nuclear

:11:42.:11:46.

capacity. A shift from him and his campaign in 2015. Sellafield is the

:11:47.:11:51.

biggest employer. There are problems over a new potential capacity at

:11:52.:11:56.

Moorside. He said that. People didn't trust him. The second thing

:11:57.:12:03.

is Jeremy Corbyn himself. There are Labour MPs out knocking on the

:12:04.:12:07.

doorsteps. They were saying that prompted his leadership came up and

:12:08.:12:12.

not in a good way. And the third, a slightly interesting one, which I've

:12:13.:12:14.

been finding out this morning, which is that Jeremy Corbyn is railing

:12:15.:12:20.

against the establishment. The outsider come if you like. But here

:12:21.:12:25.

he was seen as part of the problem. The town is rundown, Labour's done

:12:26.:12:30.

nothing about it. He was coming across as incumbent. You out those

:12:31.:12:34.

problems together, it doesn't bode well for the next general election,

:12:35.:12:37.

a swing against Labour here would lose them a further 50 seats. What

:12:38.:12:46.

on earth do they do now is to mark they have had a vote of no

:12:47.:12:51.

confidence in him. -- what on earth do they do now? I'm glad to see that

:12:52.:13:00.

Storm Doris has disappeared and there is sunshine behind you. Such a

:13:01.:13:04.

significant result last night there. The other important constituency, in

:13:05.:13:11.

the Midlands, Stoke, neighbour got a reduced share of the vote and Ukip

:13:12.:13:16.

was probably as big a story as anything else. There were more

:13:17.:13:19.

cameras on Paul Nuttall after the result than there were on the Labour

:13:20.:13:20.

candidate who had won and become MP. Our assistant political editor

:13:21.:13:23.

Norman Smith is in Stoke. Give us your latest on the mood now

:13:24.:13:26.

in Stoke. Some comfort for Labour in Stoke,

:13:27.:13:38.

not just because they won but they managed to repulse the perceived

:13:39.:13:43.

threat of Ukip. Many Labour MPs are drawing a huge sigh of relief. There

:13:44.:13:49.

was a view that Ukip were poised to due to labour in the North exactly

:13:50.:13:55.

what happened in Scotland. That is a big plus. For Ukip, you must say

:13:56.:14:00.

that it is a bad result, however you cut it. Although they are saying

:14:01.:14:06.

this is their 72nd target seat, it was a dirty campaign. Labour threw

:14:07.:14:10.

everything at it. Make no mistake, this was a pretty much must win for

:14:11.:14:16.

Ukip. Remember, Nigel Farage pretty much said as much. He said it was a

:14:17.:14:21.

fundamental that Paul Nuttall won here. He hasn't. He didn't get close

:14:22.:14:27.

to winning in a big pro Brexit seat. And it raises a number of questions.

:14:28.:14:34.

One, where on earth did Ukip go now? Theresa May has consolidated the

:14:35.:14:37.

Tory party. It's difficult to see Ukip making any further inroads into

:14:38.:14:42.

the Tory vote. Paul Nuttall's big idea was to hoover up fragmented

:14:43.:14:47.

disintegrated Labour voters. This is the sort of seat which should have

:14:48.:14:50.

been a prime target for him to do exactly that. Yet it simply hasn't

:14:51.:14:57.

happened. There is much more of a problem, and that is, what is the

:14:58.:15:01.

point of Ukip? We have had the referendum. People voted for Brexit.

:15:02.:15:06.

Theresa May is going full steam ahead with it, why do you need Ukip?

:15:07.:15:10.

And I'm not entirely sure they have an answer. We have covered Ukip for

:15:11.:15:17.

many years. I think we know enough. There is going to be a pretty bloody

:15:18.:15:22.

and nasty postmortem on this campaign. And Paul Nuttall will be

:15:23.:15:26.

in the eye of the storm on this, do you agree?

:15:27.:15:31.

It is not just Ukip which has taken a big hit, Paul Nuttall as leader.

:15:32.:15:39.

He has suffered a really damaging few weeks which I think will last.

:15:40.:15:48.

It is hard to see him recovering his sense of drive, ambition and

:15:49.:15:51.

confidence for the party. The more you look at Ukip, I am

:15:52.:15:58.

increasingly of the view Nigel Farage was what gave them their

:15:59.:16:02.

whole momentum. Without him, they have struggled from people who have

:16:03.:16:06.

been elected leader then chucked it in, people who did not want to be

:16:07.:16:10.

leader, the person who is leader but could not make progress. Without

:16:11.:16:15.

Nigel Farage, their central mission of Brexit, they are really beginning

:16:16.:16:20.

to struggle. I wonder whether their fate is like that of so many

:16:21.:16:24.

minority parties, they have their moment, then they go into terminal

:16:25.:16:27.

decline. Thank you. Let us get more labour

:16:28.:16:32.

reaction. We've been joined now

:16:33.:16:32.

by the Labour MP John Woodcock whose constituency of Barrow

:16:33.:16:37.

and Furness is next What are your Parliamentary Labour

:16:38.:16:53.

colleagues saying? Some are saying Copeland is marginal, it is no big

:16:54.:17:00.

deal you lost it? No, it isn't. Now, and I don't think

:17:01.:17:06.

it does anybody any favours to downplay what has happened here.

:17:07.:17:12.

This needs to be a massive rocket to the Labour Party.

:17:13.:17:18.

And to everyone in it. This is a seat which we have been blessed with

:17:19.:17:26.

as returned Labour MPs since the 1930s. And was actually the seat

:17:27.:17:31.

which recorded the biggest swing to Labour after eight years of a Labour

:17:32.:17:36.

Government in 2005 and maintained a very big majority in 2010 despite

:17:37.:17:45.

taking in Tory leaning Keswick. This is an earthquake. It is a

:17:46.:17:50.

terrible reversal for us. We all need to see it as such.

:17:51.:17:56.

Trying to say, oh, well, it was all very difficult, or it was simply one

:17:57.:18:02.

single issue, nuclear, just ignores the fact we are, for the Labour

:18:03.:18:09.

Party, we are in an historically vulnerable and parlous position now.

:18:10.:18:14.

We are trailing in the polls in a way which would have been

:18:15.:18:18.

unthinkable midterm against a Government which is frankly flailing

:18:19.:18:23.

around on the issue of exiting the EU, which it did by mistake against

:18:24.:18:31.

its own wishes, as a Government. So, you know, we have to understand the

:18:32.:18:36.

seriousness of this and do better. Look, it was a Labour held seat, and

:18:37.:18:41.

as you say had been for a long time. A by-election with a Conservative

:18:42.:18:45.

Government in power, that is usually hugely to the opposition's advantage

:18:46.:18:51.

in a by-election. The election was fought on Jeremy Corbyn's chosen

:18:52.:18:57.

political weapon, the NHS. And yet you at that altogether and you still

:18:58.:18:59.

lost. Why? Well, I wouldn't use the word,

:19:00.:19:08.

weapon. Let us dwell for a moment on the West Cumberland Hospital. This

:19:09.:19:12.

is a community in Whitehaven which is similar to mine in Barrow and

:19:13.:19:19.

Furness, which has its hospital, has a maternity unit and accident and

:19:20.:19:23.

emergency which is seen as under threat. The alternative is to travel

:19:24.:19:27.

on very difficult road for many miles.

:19:28.:19:30.

I understand that, we have covered all that.

:19:31.:19:33.

So it was a strong case, you had a strong candidate with experience of

:19:34.:19:41.

the NHS. My point is, he still lost. Well, yes, indeed. Well... No one

:19:42.:19:51.

can ignore the issue of leadership. It would be fatuous to do so. I

:19:52.:19:57.

don't think anyone, I hope, is suggesting that it wasn't an issue

:19:58.:20:02.

on the doorstep. But I think it is important that when we are deciding

:20:03.:20:05.

as a party what we do next, that we don't simply pin this all on one,

:20:06.:20:11.

this is not about the competence or capabilities of one individual at

:20:12.:20:16.

the top. This is about the direction of the party, and people currently

:20:17.:20:19.

do not think that the direction we have set is making us a credible

:20:20.:20:24.

opposition at what is such a fundamentally important time for the

:20:25.:20:27.

future of our country. And that has to be a wake up call, or we will be

:20:28.:20:36.

suffering possibly an existential white out at the next general

:20:37.:20:39.

election. John MacDonald, the Shadow

:20:40.:20:43.

Chancellor, confident of Jeremy Corbyn. He says is people like you

:20:44.:20:48.

who are to blame for this. And Tony Blair. And Peter Mandelson. They

:20:49.:20:54.

give all these interviews. And they make all the speeches. It puts

:20:55.:20:59.

across the impression the -- Labour is deeply divided, no-confidence in

:21:00.:21:03.

the leader. People don't like divided political parties which is

:21:04.:21:08.

why we are not doing so well. You are part of the problem rather than

:21:09.:21:13.

the solution is what he is saying. Well, I did listen to some of what

:21:14.:21:18.

Mr McDonald, our Shadow Chancellor, said this morning. I was a little

:21:19.:21:25.

puzzled by his description of Labour having been disunited of late. For

:21:26.:21:32.

all of the obviously well-publicised difficulties in the summer, what you

:21:33.:21:37.

have seen since Jeremy wants his real election leadership campaign is

:21:38.:21:44.

a real willingness by people who of course have had real misgivings, but

:21:45.:21:48.

we have all united exactly as he is calling us to do now. The issue is

:21:49.:21:55.

not unity in the party. It is direction, or lack of direction. And

:21:56.:22:02.

I really hope that John MacDonald and Jeremy and everyone else who

:22:03.:22:06.

claims that we will be able to close a polling gap by the end of the

:22:07.:22:12.

year. I say, great, to that, but it is time now rather than blaming

:22:13.:22:16.

people who left the political scene ten years ago, to set out how we

:22:17.:22:24.

will do that as a party now. Thank you for joining us.

:22:25.:22:27.

Joining us now from Newcastle is Labour's campaigns and

:22:28.:22:29.

Thank you for joining us. The daily Mirror is probably your biggest,

:22:30.:22:46.

Labour's biggest ally on Slate Street, solid Labour supporting

:22:47.:22:50.

tabloid newspaper. Its editorial today reads, the two words which

:22:51.:22:55.

best described by devastated Labour humiliatingly lost the northern

:22:56.:23:02.

stronghold are Jeremy and Corbyn. What do you say?

:23:03.:23:07.

Listen, this wasn't in any way an election on the leadership of the

:23:08.:23:12.

Labour Party but a by-election in Copeland on the coast will stop and

:23:13.:23:19.

the two main issues in Copeland where the NHS, and, indeed, the

:23:20.:23:26.

nuclear industry. It wasn't a ballot or indication on whether Jeremy

:23:27.:23:31.

Corbyn should or should not be the leader of the Labour Party. Jeremy

:23:32.:23:35.

Corbyn is a leader of one of the biggest is not the biggest political

:23:36.:23:39.

parties in Europe, we have got nearly 600,000 members.

:23:40.:23:43.

What is the point of having all these members if you cannot win a

:23:44.:23:49.

by-election in ACTU have held since 1935?

:23:50.:23:53.

We have held it since 1934. Let me tell you I am absolutely

:23:54.:23:56.

disappointed to say the least with the result in Copeland last night. I

:23:57.:24:01.

will be knocking on the doors in Copeland. I have had some positive

:24:02.:24:05.

and negative responses. I have been speaking to people, they have been

:24:06.:24:11.

fabulous. It is a real problem in areas like Copeland, they feel

:24:12.:24:15.

disenfranchised from politics, they feel left behind by politicians.

:24:16.:24:18.

Jeremy Corbyn wasn't something that cropped up on the doorstop when I

:24:19.:24:24.

was visiting Copeland. It was the fact it was a distrust in

:24:25.:24:27.

politicians. So why did they vote tall green --

:24:28.:24:35.

vote Tory if they distrust politicians?

:24:36.:24:38.

We have democratic process voting for what they thought was in their

:24:39.:24:42.

best interest. They won by just over 2000 votes. That is the Democratic

:24:43.:24:48.

recess. What they do distrust is Labour and

:24:49.:24:52.

Jeremy Corbyn which is why the first time in living memory they have

:24:53.:24:57.

elected a non-Labour MP. I certainly do not share those

:24:58.:25:02.

views. I assure you that is being spewed out in the media but this is

:25:03.:25:12.

focused on why everybody should -- but we should focus on the facts

:25:13.:25:17.

Jeremy Corbyn is one of the most popular politicians in the country

:25:18.:25:21.

at this time. The issues in Copeland were about the jobs, and about the

:25:22.:25:25.

economy. People were worried about those. And

:25:26.:25:32.

it was about the NHS. Both Mr Corbyn and your candidate, a doctor and an

:25:33.:25:36.

added as driver, knows a lot about the NHS, by all accounts fought a

:25:37.:25:41.

good campaign, put the NHS at the heart of the campaign, it is meant

:25:42.:25:45.

to be the issue for you and Mr Corbyn. And you still lost, you lost

:25:46.:25:48.

big. So what went wrong? What went wrong

:25:49.:25:54.

is the fact that the people in Copeland, like many constituencies

:25:55.:25:56.

up and down the country, feel let down and left behind by the

:25:57.:26:02.

politicians in Westminster. And what people were looking for at the

:26:03.:26:08.

election, what they voted for, what they saw as secure enjoyment in the

:26:09.:26:12.

nuclear industry, a future for themselves and their children. That,

:26:13.:26:17.

in many ways, outshone the problems they have got with regards to the

:26:18.:26:23.

founding NHS in that area. When you look at it, the issue in Copeland

:26:24.:26:29.

was by and large uniquely to do with the nuclear industry. Let us say it

:26:30.:26:34.

once more, the Labour Party, Jeremy Corbyn, did, and we were the only

:26:35.:26:40.

party prepared to underwrite the future of the new nuclear facility,

:26:41.:26:45.

and also we did say that we were desperate to ensure the nuclear

:26:46.:26:49.

industry continued in a balanced portfolio for the future for this

:26:50.:26:53.

country. We supported it. Unfortunately, the people in

:26:54.:26:58.

Copeland chose not to accept the views of the Labour Party.

:26:59.:27:02.

They didn't believe you, didn't trust you, because Jeremy Corbyn

:27:03.:27:07.

said in 2011, I say no nuclear power, not just that, decommission

:27:08.:27:12.

the stations we have got. That is what Mr Corbyn really thinks, that

:27:13.:27:16.

is what he has fought his whole life about nuclear power. They did not

:27:17.:27:20.

trust your leader on an issue which is of vital importance to the people

:27:21.:27:25.

of Copeland. It is an absolute critical

:27:26.:27:27.

importance for the people of Copeland and that is why the Labour

:27:28.:27:33.

Party gave that undertaking. The Labour Party... Theresa May was

:27:34.:27:37.

asked on her visit whether she would give an undertaking with regard to

:27:38.:27:40.

the future of nuclear. She refused to do so on numerous questions. We

:27:41.:27:46.

did, we get that undertaking as a party.

:27:47.:27:48.

They didn't believe you. It is Labour Party policy to support

:27:49.:27:52.

Trident, to support the nuclear industry.

:27:53.:27:55.

Yes, but the problem people have and it goes to the heart of

:27:56.:28:07.

Labourconundrum is you say it is Labour Party policy to support

:28:08.:28:09.

Trident, to support nuclear power generation, and everybody knows your

:28:10.:28:12.

leader does not believe in either. It is not a credible position to

:28:13.:28:15.

have policies that you stand for, and a leader who spends his whole

:28:16.:28:20.

life opposing them. And that is why the people of Copeland would not

:28:21.:28:23.

vote for your party for the first time in four generations.

:28:24.:28:28.

I'll say it again because you are continually ignoring the reality of

:28:29.:28:33.

the democratic process within the Labour Party. The conference decides

:28:34.:28:41.

policy, the conference decides the direction of the Labour Party. And

:28:42.:28:48.

the Labour Party Conference supports the nuclear industry. They agreed

:28:49.:28:54.

nuclear has a role to play in a balanced energy portfolio.

:28:55.:28:58.

But your leader... Your leader has only changed because he has had to.

:28:59.:29:04.

Your leader has always been against it, and those are his true views.

:29:05.:29:07.

Jeremy Corbyn has been consistent on many things the 35 years, why would

:29:08.:29:12.

he change his mind on this? That is why people don't trust him. In

:29:13.:29:15.

Copeland, people thought you were saying this because you wanted to

:29:16.:29:19.

get elected and they did not trust you. They didn't trust the party

:29:20.:29:24.

that they had always made their representatives in Parliament. It is

:29:25.:29:27.

a seismic change. I think it is a lot deeper than

:29:28.:29:32.

that, Andrew. As I said earlier, there's lots of problems in

:29:33.:29:36.

constituencies up and down the country where politicians and the

:29:37.:29:40.

general public seem to be disenfranchised. The real issue is

:29:41.:29:45.

jobs and the economy in these constituencies and we have got to

:29:46.:29:50.

listen, we had to decide policies for the future, look at what is

:29:51.:29:54.

happening in Copeland and Stoke, to have a clear assessment on how we go

:29:55.:29:56.

forward. Can you remember a worse by-election

:29:57.:30:02.

result the Labour than this one? To me, if you lose a by-election by

:30:03.:30:08.

one vote, it is a disaster. I am not saying anything other than that.

:30:09.:30:13.

Can you remember a worse one? I am of a firm view we should have

:30:14.:30:16.

retained Copeland. I am not trying to say anything other. We didn't. We

:30:17.:30:21.

have to learn from it and go forward. We have too tried to regain

:30:22.:30:28.

the likes of constituencies like Copeland and earned the trust of the

:30:29.:30:32.

people, ensure we have policies which are quite distinct from other

:30:33.:30:37.

parties. We don't have the divine right, no political party has, to

:30:38.:30:44.

survive. We have got to have the right policies, distinct, different,

:30:45.:30:47.

bold, imaginative, to reach the hearts of people up and down this

:30:48.:30:49.

country. A big challenge we face. You are at 27%. What is all of that

:30:50.:31:04.

rhetoric? You've got -- that's got nothing to do with it. You face an

:31:05.:31:08.

existential crisis, one of your own Labour MPs has said that, and you

:31:09.:31:12.

were going on about things like that when your poll ratings continue to

:31:13.:31:16.

die and you cannot even win the Copeland by-election! -- dive. I'm

:31:17.:31:25.

not blustering. I'm talking about the issues facing real people. But

:31:26.:31:30.

it does not sound like they are listening. The reality is that

:31:31.:31:35.

people in this country are living in despair, frightened of them are good

:31:36.:31:38.

jobs, frightened about the failed economy, they want a future which

:31:39.:31:45.

the politicians would listen to and develop in the future. That is our

:31:46.:31:50.

promise. I'm sorry if you disagree with that. It is not a matter of

:31:51.:31:55.

disagreeing it is what the people think. If they are so frightened and

:31:56.:31:59.

jobs are an issue in Coupland, no question, the NHS was an issue, they

:32:00.:32:04.

are frightened of these things. The Labour Party have tried to make this

:32:05.:32:07.

an issue but they are still not voting for you, what you do for an

:32:08.:32:18.

encore? -- Copeland. The intention of this interview is to damage the

:32:19.:32:22.

leader of the Labour Party. I'm not talking to you about Jeremy Corbyn's

:32:23.:32:27.

future. We will get in and listen to the views of the people, listen to

:32:28.:32:34.

their concerns, change their future in terms of despair to hope. We will

:32:35.:32:39.

begin to deliver what they want by listening to what they say, rather

:32:40.:32:42.

than the other way around. We have fantastic policies. We are in the

:32:43.:32:48.

process of developing some brilliant policies, which I hope will address

:32:49.:32:53.

the many needs of the very many people up and down this country. I

:32:54.:32:57.

know it's been a long night for everybody. Thank you for your time

:32:58.:33:01.

and for joining us there at the BBC in the north-east. What do you make

:33:02.:33:06.

of what you have heard? I thought that was crucifixion. Pour him, that

:33:07.:33:12.

was hard. Of course he is wrong, this is about Corbyn. For all the

:33:13.:33:22.

blustering and, you know, the last-minute U-turns, Jeremy Corbyn

:33:23.:33:34.

is an unreconstructed, antinuclear, anti-EU, anti-everything, kind of

:33:35.:33:43.

man. And the people have spoken. They don't trust. They don't think

:33:44.:33:47.

he wants to be a leader. They don't see him as a leader. There was a

:33:48.:33:54.

problem in Copeland because the nuclear issue. But what they think

:33:55.:33:59.

is broadly in line with the rest of the UK. It is not just a Copeland

:34:00.:34:05.

issue, or a Jeremy Corbyn issue, either. Social Democratic parties

:34:06.:34:11.

across Europe, including the Democrat in the US, most of them are

:34:12.:34:17.

in trouble. I thought that's right. And the interview was interesting.

:34:18.:34:21.

People in the Labour Party have learnt the lesson from last year

:34:22.:34:25.

when they went after Jeremy Corbyn. They attacked him after the

:34:26.:34:29.

referendum because they were so frustrated. They thought his

:34:30.:34:32.

leadership was dire. They had one bullet in the chamber, they fired

:34:33.:34:37.

it, Jeremy Corbyn was still leader, and they also antagonised many of

:34:38.:34:40.

the people who supported Jeremy Corbyn and thought he was brilliant,

:34:41.:34:44.

he was their choice of leader. He demonstrated that they sort of

:34:45.:34:48.

understood that. But there are still members of the Labour Party who

:34:49.:34:53.

still want the Jeremy Corbyn project to work. But also, there is not much

:34:54.:34:57.

point in removing Jeremy Corbyn if you don't address the important

:34:58.:35:00.

issue of what is a party of the Centre left do in the 21st century

:35:01.:35:06.

when all of the industrialists who have always supported the Labour

:35:07.:35:10.

Party and labour movement across party, the nature of the economy and

:35:11.:35:13.

infrastructure has changed. It isn't obvious what they call social

:35:14.:35:19.

Democratic politician looks like any more. -- what a core. There is

:35:20.:35:31.

really who is articulating that answer. But they know that the

:35:32.:35:35.

answer isn't Jeremy Corbyn. The Greek Socialist party has been

:35:36.:35:42.

pretty much wiped out. The Italian one has... Germany might have a

:35:43.:35:48.

chance. The French Socialists are about to be wiped out. The German

:35:49.:35:52.

social Democrats may have been given a new lease of life by their new

:35:53.:35:56.

candidate and Angela Merkel is on the back foot. But that seems like a

:35:57.:36:00.

change of personnel rather than a change of policy. Britain isn't

:36:01.:36:05.

alone in working out what they stand for. They are quite common problems.

:36:06.:36:09.

One of them seems to be a big gap between what became the common sort

:36:10.:36:13.

of, I hate this term, but Metropolitan, liberal steering

:36:14.:36:19.

committee of the left, and the, sort of, storm trooper basis of

:36:20.:36:22.

industrial working class which always drove the labour movement

:36:23.:36:25.

forward through trade unions. You need that coalition to form power.

:36:26.:36:31.

But culturally those two constituencies have driven further

:36:32.:36:36.

apart. Between Ed Miliband and Jeremy Corbyn's leaderships, they

:36:37.:36:44.

have broken up completely. In Stoke Labour played the Patriot Lock card.

:36:45.:36:49.

And was is holding its nose. Because on their leaflet they had a Saint

:36:50.:36:58.

Georges flag. -- patriotic card. The industrial left on the centre-left

:36:59.:37:02.

does not stand for the patriotism which is common in the working

:37:03.:37:04.

class. Absolutely. The old working-class socialist

:37:05.:37:22.

parties in France are going to Marine Le Pen. This isn't happening

:37:23.:37:28.

as much in Germany because the antibodies and inoculation between

:37:29.:37:32.

nationalism and Germany is so much stronger. Of course. Well, that's

:37:33.:37:37.

labour, let's turn to Ukip. We did ask for an interview from one of

:37:38.:37:47.

them spokes people -- we did ask an interview from one of their

:37:48.:37:50.

spokespeople but they did not want to.

:37:51.:37:50.

The former Ukip leader Diane James is with us now.

:37:51.:37:53.

She was in charge for 18 days last autumn before

:37:54.:37:55.

Because of Copeland label was a loser last night. It did win Stoke.

:37:56.:38:05.

Much relief there. The other big story was Ukip and Paul Nuttall.

:38:06.:38:13.

What is your question? I would like you to comment. Paul has gone

:38:14.:38:20.

through a horrible experience. He has gone through a tough learning

:38:21.:38:25.

curve. He has seen first-hand, experienced it first hand, the

:38:26.:38:29.

issues Nigel faced all the time he was trying to get into Westminster.

:38:30.:38:34.

What I don't doubt happened was that Labour was absolutely focused on

:38:35.:38:41.

assuring Ukip didn't take Stoke. I think they sacrificed Copeland as a

:38:42.:38:44.

result. In doing so they had three strands to their focus. One, they

:38:45.:38:50.

had to stop Ukip in the West Midlands. Two, they had to undermine

:38:51.:38:56.

Paul as leader of Ukip. Three, they had to undermine him personally.

:38:57.:38:59.

They have achieved all three of those. I don't believe they have

:39:00.:39:03.

undermined him fatally. I don't expect Paul to resign. I don't want

:39:04.:39:09.

to see that. Knives will be out for him. I don't think so. Nigel said

:39:10.:39:16.

that he had to win that. One of the biggest bankroll is said he wasn't a

:39:17.:39:24.

fan of Paul Nuttall. OK... His leadership must be under question.

:39:25.:39:28.

First, I am now an independent, I am no longer a Ukip member. To refer to

:39:29.:39:33.

your situation, giving me the possessive doesn't apply to stop

:39:34.:39:38.

Nigel made some statements. I don't think to suddenly infer from those

:39:39.:39:42.

statements that Paul should fall on his sword just because of the result

:39:43.:39:47.

that came out of Stoke. But it has been a bruising experience for him.

:39:48.:39:52.

Indeed. He was fighting on all fronts. In many cases he was his own

:39:53.:39:57.

worst enemy. And labour were out to do him. It wouldn't be surprising if

:39:58.:40:02.

he decided he did not want to go on. Possibly, but I don't think that is

:40:03.:40:10.

going to happen. Paul has stood to lead the party. He has achieved one

:40:11.:40:14.

fundamental aim. He has unified the party. By this experience he has

:40:15.:40:20.

identified that this has come at a cost. Maybe there will be casualties

:40:21.:40:24.

in terms of the team he has around him, who you will be reviewing this

:40:25.:40:28.

result with over the weekend, over the coming days, and a side may be

:40:29.:40:32.

some new faces need to be brought in. Maybe some new approaches need

:40:33.:40:37.

to come in. The good thing, from my point of view, as an observer, an

:40:38.:40:41.

independent observer, is he's gone through a tough call. He hasn't

:40:42.:40:45.

achieved his aim. But he has learnt a lot. And so has the party. As an

:40:46.:40:51.

independent, I emphasise, they will go forward with this. Except even in

:40:52.:40:56.

the good times Ukip has had the ability to rip itself to pieces. Now

:40:57.:41:01.

that it is going through some bad times, that propensity to rip itself

:41:02.:41:07.

to pieces must surely be enhanced. I don't think it goes anywhere near to

:41:08.:41:09.

what the Labour Party is doing. Labour hasn't gone through the

:41:10.:41:19.

number of leaders you have. I'll go back to my point. Paul, in the last

:41:20.:41:24.

few months, has brought the party together. We haven't heard the

:41:25.:41:27.

narrative. The media tried to portray that the party wasn't

:41:28.:41:33.

unified, that people were smiting, stabbing each other in the back, I

:41:34.:41:35.

think he's done a good job there. What he is now seeing. He will learn

:41:36.:41:41.

from this experience. Where does he need to move on the chessboard the

:41:42.:41:45.

people around him so this doesn't happen again. Let's put this into

:41:46.:41:50.

perspective. Even I understand the comment he made. This was 72nd on

:41:51.:41:55.

the list of targets. The risk he took was high risk. Why did he

:41:56.:42:02.

stand, then? He must be ruing the day, thinking that was a misguided

:42:03.:42:06.

risk. But that is the benefit of hindsight, Andrew. It was possible

:42:07.:42:12.

to win. Given the high Brexit vote within the constituency. Given,

:42:13.:42:16.

although there had been problems with the Labour candidate, he was a

:42:17.:42:28.

Remain politician and his tweets were embarrassing. One of the

:42:29.:42:36.

reasons Paul was elected, he had to win over working-class voters

:42:37.:42:40.

disillusioned with Jeremy Corbyn, Brexit voters, and he had to get

:42:41.:42:43.

Tories to vote tactically to put labour out. Neither happened. It was

:42:44.:42:49.

a total strategic failure. I'm not going to agree that it was a total

:42:50.:42:57.

strategic failure. It wasn't a good outcome. I'm going to sit here and

:42:58.:43:02.

appreciate that point honestly. Let's go back to some clear markers.

:43:03.:43:06.

Just as you just put some down. Labour through the book at Stoke. It

:43:07.:43:11.

was strategically so pivotal to them they had to keep it. But that is

:43:12.:43:16.

what happens at by-elections. Paul made mistakes. Politicians do that.

:43:17.:43:21.

When it came down to it, the tactical voting you just explained

:43:22.:43:25.

did not happen. You can put into context that some of the issues

:43:26.:43:29.

surrounding Paul's campaign contributed to that. I've heard

:43:30.:43:32.

comments that Hillsborough was being raised on the doorsteps. But going

:43:33.:43:37.

forward, all of that is now in the public domain, Paul has time to

:43:38.:43:42.

recoup, reenergise himself. Has he? I believe so. It is my instinct that

:43:43.:43:49.

this weekend knives will be out for him. The Sunday papers, in

:43:50.:43:58.

particular, what do you think,? What Ukip have consistency lacked --

:43:59.:44:08.

consistently lack is a message. Nigel Farage could get some support

:44:09.:44:13.

but could not win a seat. Labour have the rusty machine. But when

:44:14.:44:17.

they start it up it does get people out. It is a practical problem for

:44:18.:44:24.

Ukip. But it points to the question, what is the purpose of this party

:44:25.:44:28.

now that Theresa May has given people who have voted for them in

:44:29.:44:31.

the past exactly what they want? Absolutely right. What Theresa May

:44:32.:44:35.

has done with her heart Brexit, she has moved her tanks into Paul

:44:36.:44:40.

Michael's garden, yard, whatever you want, the territory. -- into Paul

:44:41.:44:50.

Nuttall's. I don't think the Prime Minister has made her position clear

:44:51.:44:55.

on whether it is a hard or soft Brexit at all. I think it needs to

:44:56.:44:58.

be a clean Brexit. You could interpret that as hard. She hasn't,

:44:59.:45:04.

Angie. If we have the detail that would signify either soft or hard,

:45:05.:45:09.

the movements and criticism won't be going on. -- Andrew. What hasn't she

:45:10.:45:17.

told you that you want to know? I have no idea what her position is on

:45:18.:45:24.

the ECJ. She has made it clear that if she gets her way we will not be

:45:25.:45:32.

under the jurisdiction of it. She hasn't. She has given us a topline

:45:33.:45:36.

comment. She hasn't given us the detail. We still don't know what

:45:37.:45:40.

will happen with freedom of movement of people, services and goods. We

:45:41.:45:44.

don't know what will happen to European citizens here. She is in a

:45:45.:45:49.

bargaining situation led by the EU in terms of... You are dancing on

:45:50.:45:54.

the head of a pin on this. I'm not. Even staunch Tory Eurosceptics

:45:55.:46:02.

disagree... You have illustrated what Ukip's real problem is right

:46:03.:46:09.

now. Because it is clear that Tory inclined Ukip voters, those who were

:46:10.:46:15.

Tories and have now moved to Ukip, they are pretty much back in the

:46:16.:46:19.

Tory fold now. They have confidence in Theresa May. Ukip cannot attract

:46:20.:46:25.

those Labour voters they were hoping to get. You're not getting votes

:46:26.:46:26.

from the Tories or Labour. I can't comment on Ukip strategy.

:46:27.:46:42.

What I have seen happen in the last few weeks is two clear by elections.

:46:43.:46:46.

Labour absolutely focused on taking out Paul and Ukip. The Tories gave

:46:47.:46:51.

them a free rein, the Tories once they have destroyed Labour will then

:46:52.:46:56.

switch to Ukip. At the moment Labour is taking on that mantle.

:46:57.:47:01.

I am just seeing pictures of the Prime Minister who has arrived in

:47:02.:47:07.

Copeland, and the Conservative candidate, now the new Members of

:47:08.:47:11.

Parliament for Copeland is standing beside her on the left of the

:47:12.:47:17.

screen. Let us hear what she is saying.

:47:18.:47:19.

The Conservative Party will deliver the people across the whole country,

:47:20.:47:24.

a country that works for everyone, not just the privileged fruit, and

:47:25.:47:31.

Trudy will be a fantastic MP, delivering for the people of

:47:32.:47:35.

Copeland -- not just the privileged few.

:47:36.:47:38.

A wonderful victory. Please, I am sure you have something to say to

:47:39.:47:40.

people. CHEERING Well, I would really like

:47:41.:47:50.

to take this opportunity to thank the people of Copeland the voting

:47:51.:47:57.

for me, having faith in and also for the volunteers who have travelled to

:47:58.:48:02.

help us when this historic election. I am ruling looking forward to

:48:03.:48:05.

getting on with the job and very much looking forward to going down

:48:06.:48:09.

to London on Monday and making sure we deliver on the plan I have been

:48:10.:48:16.

pledging for the last four weeks. Thank you very much, Copeland.

:48:17.:48:23.

CHEERING There we go, Trudy Harrison, the new member of

:48:24.:48:27.

Parliament, Conservative Members of Parliament for Copeland, with the

:48:28.:48:32.

Prime Minister who has gone up to bathe in the glory of her victory.

:48:33.:48:44.

Apparently she went to bed and was awoken by a text that the

:48:45.:48:50.

Conservatives had one Copeland. She was so excited by her standards,

:48:51.:48:56.

that she woke her husband. I am sure she was, he was very grateful.

:48:57.:49:02.

That was a real display of expression.

:49:03.:49:06.

Next week voters in Northern Ireland return to the polls for the second

:49:07.:49:09.

The snap election was triggered when Sinn Fein announced it would no

:49:10.:49:14.

longer work with the DUP in the power-sharing executive,

:49:15.:49:16.

following a scandal involving subsidies for renewable energy.

:49:17.:49:18.

Like all good scandals, it's got several catchy names.

:49:19.:49:38.

The idea was to increase Northern Ireland's consumption

:49:39.:49:53.

But it ended up meaning businesses like, say,

:49:54.:49:56.

this Ferrari dealership on the outskirts of Belfast,

:49:57.:50:02.

It has landed the taxpayer with an unexpected bill

:50:03.:50:04.

Oh, and it brought down the Government.

:50:05.:50:05.

Also, it seems, watchers of Stormont see the scandal more

:50:06.:50:08.

This isn't just about a heating scandal, there is much to it.

:50:09.:50:12.

The RHI scandal, the renewable heat incentive, is a political

:50:13.:50:14.

opportunity, a smokescreen for larger issues

:50:15.:50:16.

Things like the Irish Language Act, the broader equality context.

:50:17.:50:19.

And trying to make sure their supporters don't feel the DUP

:50:20.:50:22.

This is an opportunity for Sinn Fein to redress that.

:50:23.:50:27.

The Northern Ireland Assembly was established

:50:28.:50:28.

following a referendum on the Good Friday

:50:29.:50:30.

Sinn Fein were part of power-sharing from the start.

:50:31.:50:37.

As a result, the DUP refused to take part,

:50:38.:50:47.

accusing the British Government and the unionists of

:50:48.:50:49.

Nevertheless, the executive operated for several years.

:50:50.:50:51.

But stumbled repeatedly over how to deal with the past.

:50:52.:50:54.

After four years' suspension and direct rule from Westminster,

:50:55.:50:56.

the St Andrew's Agreement in 2006 set out a timetable

:50:57.:50:59.

I affirm the terms of the pledge of office.

:51:00.:51:08.

With power shared by the largest parties, the polar opposites

:51:09.:51:14.

If your definition of working is, does it keep

:51:15.:51:22.

Does it work in the sense of frequently passing legislation

:51:23.:51:34.

that has a profound impact on the lives Northern

:51:35.:51:43.

Probably not, because not an awful lot gets done.

:51:44.:51:46.

It divides on the one side the Protestant Shankhill area

:51:47.:51:50.

and on the other side the Catholic Falls community.

:51:51.:51:52.

Now, those two communities are still largely separate,

:51:53.:51:55.

But, while divisions here are not as stark

:51:56.:52:05.

or as violent as they used to be, it's also unlikely many voters

:52:06.:52:09.

will change their allegiances in the next election.

:52:10.:52:12.

Do you think anything will change after the election?

:52:13.:52:14.

No, probably not, just the same people.

:52:15.:52:16.

It needs somebody to work it all out.

:52:17.:52:32.

I don't think this will do any good, I don't think it will change.

:52:33.:52:36.

They will fight about something else.

:52:37.:52:38.

This will be the second election they get to vote in,

:52:39.:52:51.

Not exactly a sign of healthy politics but it could be a good

:52:52.:52:53.

Something massive happens and then we take a step forward.

:52:54.:52:54.

Something sounds quite bad, so we have a scandal,

:52:55.:52:55.

We have another agreement around a set of issues.

:52:56.:53:01.

Legacy issues have been rumbling on for years.

:53:02.:53:03.

They've nearly been agreed two, three times.

:53:04.:53:06.

This perhaps is the opportunity to actually make that happen.

:53:07.:53:10.

After the election, the main parties have three weeks to form

:53:11.:53:13.

a power-sharing government and agree a way forward.

:53:14.:53:15.

If they don't, there could be another election or a period

:53:16.:53:17.

So, the stakes are high, when Northern Ireland goes

:53:18.:53:20.

And we've been joined from Belfast by our Northern Ireland political

:53:21.:53:33.

Is there not a danger that the people of Northern Ireland go to the

:53:34.:53:43.

polls and they end up producing roughly the same result as before

:53:44.:53:49.

they went to the polls, and doesn't resolve anything?

:53:50.:53:52.

How will that work out? It is entirely possible we might

:53:53.:53:56.

have a similar balance of power at Stormont after these elections as

:53:57.:54:01.

before. It seems quite a long way to go for the opposition parties on

:54:02.:54:05.

either side of the divide here, the Ulster Unionists or the SDLP, to

:54:06.:54:10.

overtake either the DUP or Sinn Fein. There might be a little bit of

:54:11.:54:14.

change in terms of the balance of power in as much as the DUP might

:54:15.:54:17.

lose its ability to veto anything it doesn't

:54:18.:54:29.

like. But it seems a long shot for any

:54:30.:54:32.

kind of a wholesale change to the system here. That means we could

:54:33.:54:35.

have some difficult talks on the other side of this election. Once

:54:36.:54:37.

the election is out of the way, we know the results, the new members

:54:38.:54:40.

take their seats, the process is they then sit down again to try and

:54:41.:54:42.

recreate a power-sharing Government, that is how it works?

:54:43.:54:47.

That is right. We have a three-week timetable after this election the

:54:48.:54:51.

them to once again vote in a first and Deputy First Minister which they

:54:52.:54:56.

need to, to get devolution up and running properly here.

:54:57.:54:59.

Most people are sceptical as to whether they can do that because

:55:00.:55:03.

Sinn Fein has specified in particular that the DUP leader

:55:04.:55:07.

Arlene Foster at the centre of this storm over the so-called renewable

:55:08.:55:17.

heat scandal, they don't want to share power with her until an

:55:18.:55:19.

inquiring which will take at least six months has concluded into this.

:55:20.:55:22.

That means it is really hard to imagine they will be able to piece

:55:23.:55:25.

it together in three weeks which is why there is a lot of expectation we

:55:26.:55:28.

may end up having a period of direct rule with Westminster appointing

:55:29.:55:30.

ministers running day-to-day affairs here.

:55:31.:55:34.

I got the impression from the report, I may be wrong, tell me,

:55:35.:55:38.

that the people in Northern Ireland haven't got much enthusiasm for this

:55:39.:55:44.

election, is that right or is it unfair?

:55:45.:55:46.

I certainly think they did get interested in the renewable heat

:55:47.:55:49.

scandal because when that was explained in the autumn to them,

:55:50.:55:58.

everybody immediately added it up in relation to that. So there was a lot

:55:59.:56:03.

of interest in that. It is an uncertain question whether we will

:56:04.:56:07.

have turnout going down because the voters, 1.2 million of them, will

:56:08.:56:14.

say, a plague on their houses, or whether the anger particularly over

:56:15.:56:17.

the renewable heat scandal will manifest itself in an increased

:56:18.:56:20.

turnout. Thank you for being with us today.

:56:21.:56:27.

We have had a statement from Nigel Farage to the result instead, he

:56:28.:56:34.

says the party message on immigration wasn't strong enough in

:56:35.:56:38.

Stoke which I guess is an interdict attack on Paul Nuttall. He says the

:56:39.:56:41.

campaign wasn't targeted as well as it could have been or tough enough

:56:42.:56:47.

with immigration policy. He said the Ukip current leader, the party

:56:48.:56:53.

candidates, in Stoke had a tough time and finished in a tough

:56:54.:56:57.

position. But he says he will get through it. He says Mr Knott also

:56:58.:57:01.

has his full support and was the right person to lead Ukip. -- Says

:57:02.:57:07.

Paul Nuttall still has his full support.

:57:08.:57:10.

He also says people currently trust Theresa May on Brexit. A little

:57:11.:57:15.

different from what Diane James was saying.

:57:16.:57:22.

Nigel Farage was speaking from Washington, not in the north-east of

:57:23.:57:26.

England, but another Washington. Washington, DC.

:57:27.:57:30.

Time now for our look back at the political week -

:57:31.:57:33.

The PM swept into Parliament on Monday, but she wasn't heading

:57:34.:57:38.

Theresa May perched on the steps of the throne to listen to peers

:57:39.:57:45.

debating the bill to withdraw from the EU.

:57:46.:57:47.

Later, protesters gathered outside Parliament to demonstrate

:57:48.:57:49.

Inside, MPs debated the petition calling for his state

:57:50.:57:55.

We are seven days into his presidency.

:57:56.:58:03.

He is invited to have the full panoply of a state visit.

:58:04.:58:06.

On Tuesday, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said

:58:07.:58:09.

the UK would face a very hefty bill for leaving the EU.

:58:10.:58:16.

The talking point at Prime Minister's Questions wasn't

:58:17.:58:22.

the May-Corbyn exchanges, but the peformance by Labour's

:58:23.:58:25.

And finally, Copeland went Tory after more than 80 years in the red.

:58:26.:58:30.

But Labour held on to Stoke Central, seeing off a challenge from the Ukip

:58:31.:58:33.

Thanks to Cristina, Rafael and all my guests.

:58:34.:58:48.

The One O'Clock News is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:49.:58:51.

I'll be back on Sunday with the Sunday Politics

:58:52.:58:53.

Donald Trump's first 100 days in the White House

:58:54.:59:07.

are defining how he'll deal with the rest of the world.

:59:08.:59:10.

the UK is stepping up the formal business of Brexit.

:59:11.:59:15.

As the new President strives to deliver

:59:16.:59:17.

on his promise to put America first...

:59:18.:59:19.

..Prime Minister Theresa May is setting out

:59:20.:59:22.

Andrew Neil analyses the results of the Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent Central by-elections with journalists Rafael Behr and Cristina Odone, as well as discussing Private Members' Bills and the Northern Ireland elections.


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