Browse content similar to 30/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The starting gun has been fired and the battle | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
so who won day one of the negotiations - | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
The Government unveils how it will turn EU law into British Law | :00:46. | :00:52. | |
but will the "Great Repeal Bill" do anything to reduce the number | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
Ken Livingstone faces a Labour Party disciplinary panel | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
after last year's outburst about jews, Zionism and Hitler - | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
were his words anti-semitic and will he be kicked out | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
Why some politicians still can't grasp the basic principles of | :01:13. | :01:20. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration, | :01:21. | :01:56. | |
back by popular demand, former | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
Pensions Minister and Remain supporter, Ros Altmann, | :01:59. | :01:59. | |
So just 729 days and 12 hours until the UK is due to leave the EU | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
Who's counting? We should have a clock ticking down. | :02:05. | :02:07. | |
Just a divorce settlement and new treaty on Britain's future | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
relationship with the 27 nation block to negotiate | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
But when I spoke to the Prime Minister last night she struck | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
an optimistic note about the outcome of that process. | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
What we're both looking for is that comprehensive free trade agreement | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
which gives that ability to trade freely into the European | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
single market and for them to trade with us. | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
But it can't be exactly the same, can it? | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
It'll be a different relationship but I think it can | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
have the same benefits, in terms of that free | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
That was the Prime Minister. What do you make of it all, Ros? You are a | :02:38. | :02:45. | |
Remainer, you were, or still are? I was a Remainer, of course I accept | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
the result of the referendum and I think the Government is right to see | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
how we can best implement the result of the referendum but I do have | :02:53. | :03:01. | |
serious concerns about the approach, about the dump - attitude we a are | :03:02. | :03:10. | |
going in with. I would like it to be more friendly. She was conciliatory. | :03:11. | :03:18. | |
She was but the tone of the letter conflating economic trade and | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
security is not going down well. I have studried Europe and watched it | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
grow over the last 30 or more years and Europe does best when you talk | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
as friends and when you understand how they think. And it is not the | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
same way we think which is part of the reason, I suspect we are leaving | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
because we have different attitudes. But when the European negotiators, | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
or leading European figures are pretty tough with us, talk of | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
punishment beatings, Mr Juncker. You eat what is on the table or you | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
don't come to the table at all. When that happens we all say - oh, they | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
are being tough, look how difficult it is going to be. When the British | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
Prime Minister points out that security is one of the real things | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
that we bring to the table, people like you throw their hands up in | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
horror. Why? It is surely quite legitimate for us to point out that | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
we are very important, in or out of the EU, to Europe's security. I | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
absolutely agree with that. That's our real strong card but in the | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
letter, this issue of security was mentioned ten times. And economic | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
and security were conflated and pushed together five times. This is | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
going to inflame the people who receive the letter and I fear that | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
we need to go in with an attitude that says - we are your friends, you | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
are your partners, we want to listen and we want to work together. The | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
French foreign ministry has said that they're glad that misses May | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
has put security at the centre of the negotiations. Good. -- that Miss | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
May. Now negotiations haven't been | :04:57. | :05:13. | |
started yet but the argument has. The Prime Minister struck a more | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
emollient tone in her letter yesterday. | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
We now have a broad idea of the British negotiating position | :05:25. | :05:26. | |
and in the month ahead we'll get a better idea of the | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
negotiating position of the remaining 27 countries. | :05:30. | :05:31. | |
Here's JoCo, to tell us what some of the issues are. | :05:32. | :05:33. | |
Arguments have already broken out about key passages from | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
In the letter she says: "We believe it is necessary to agree the terms | :05:37. | :05:44. | |
of our future partnership alongside those of our withdrawl from the EU." | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
But the EU Commission's chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, has | :05:48. | :05:54. | |
which means the UK and the EU should agree the terms of the UK's | :05:55. | :06:02. | |
withdrawal before negotiating any future trade deal. | :06:03. | :06:04. | |
EU Critics have also accused the Prime Minister in her letter | :06:05. | :06:07. | |
of linking future co-operation on security and defence | :06:08. | :06:09. | |
The European Parliament's Brexit co-ordinator Guy Verhofstadt said: | :06:10. | :06:27. | |
The Brexit Secretary David Davis has played down the issue saying: | :06:28. | :06:38. | |
The next big date will be the EU summit at the end of April, | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
where Donald Tusk's negotiating guidelines will be will be discussed | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
Negotiations won't really start in ernest until after the French | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
presidential elections in April and May and then there are elections | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
As we were coming on air, to us to us Turks President of the European | :06:55. | :07:08. | |
Council was speaking in Malta where the European People's Party is | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
having a conference. Yesterday, after receiving the letter from | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
Prime Minister, Theresa May, invoking Article 50 I said that | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
paradoxically there is also something positive in brings it. | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
Brexit has made us the community of 27, more determined and more united | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
than before. I am fully confident of this, especially after our own | :07:40. | :07:46. | |
declaration and and I can say we will remain determined and united | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
until the future. That was Donald Tusk. | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
Earlier I spoke to the MEP Roberto Gaultieri, | :07:52. | :07:52. | |
who is on the European Parliament's negotiating team. | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
I asked him if he thought a deal could be done in two years. | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
It's a challenging task but I think and I can hope | :07:59. | :08:00. | |
The time is not much so we have to start working intensively very | :08:01. | :08:11. | |
soon and I hope that instead of discussing on the different | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
sequencing, we can start discussing substance very soon. | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
First there are open issues connected to a withdrawal agreement. | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
You say it's a challenge but it could be done within two years | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
but a leaked resolution by the European Parliament yesterday | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
said that Britain will not be given a free trade deal by the EU | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
in the next two years, and that any transition arrangement, | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
to cushion the UK's exit after 2019 could last no longer | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
We think that we can conclude quickly and also it depends on, | :08:45. | :09:06. | |
of course, the UK Government, in agreement on the elements, | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
the basic elements of the withdrawal deal, which we are open to discuss | :09:10. | :09:12. | |
also in the framework of the long-term deal. | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
Then, of course, to conclude all the details of a comprehensive | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
association free trade agreement, maybe it would take longer than two | :09:21. | :09:22. | |
We think that it might be longer and this is also the role | :09:23. | :09:33. | |
of the transitional agreement, during which we could finalise | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
How much money do you think the UK needs to pay | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
I'm not going to give an exact figure because we rely | :09:43. | :09:55. | |
on the figure that the competent bodies will define. | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
We are not going to ask one single pound more than what is already | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
agreed as a commitment, a liability by the United Kingdom. | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
A row has broken out, as I'm sure you know, | :10:12. | :10:19. | |
because Guy Verhofstadt has said that the Prime Minister linked | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
security and trade in her letter to Donald Tusk and he said | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
that there could be no bargaining between those two elements. | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
I appreciate the tone of the letter but indeed there is one paragraph | :10:30. | :10:44. | |
which I think was not the most happy, let's say, formulation, | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
where it sounds like, "A failure to reach an agreement | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
would mean that co-operation in the fight against crime | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
We would not, we say this in our resolution, | :10:59. | :11:09. | |
have a trade-off between, let's say the role of the UK in the area | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
of security and defence, and some special arrangements | :11:13. | :11:14. | |
We want a comprehensive deal, so no trade-off, no cherry picking. | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
How much power does the European Parliament | :11:19. | :11:19. | |
really have in terms of shaping these negotiations? | :11:20. | :11:21. | |
The European Parliament will have to give its consent... | :11:22. | :11:23. | |
...to the divorce agreement at the end. | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
Of course we'll have also to vote on future agreements. | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
That's why we will follow closely all the steps of the negotiation. | :11:33. | :11:43. | |
Will you miss the UK in the way that Donald Tusk expressed yesterday once | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
he'd received the letter from Theresa May? | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
We had a very moving moment with our UK colleagues | :11:49. | :12:01. | |
I considered, since the beginning, a mistake, the Brexit, | :12:02. | :12:10. | |
That's one view from the European Parliament. | :12:11. | :12:22. | |
I'm joined now by the Conservative MP Dominic Raab, who supported | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
Brexit and by Paul Blomfield, Labour's Shadow Brexit minister. | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
Welcome to you both. Was it necessary, Dominic Raab for the | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
Prime Minister to say - if there is no deal, then security cooperation | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
will be weakened? She didn't say that. What she said - we could read | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
it out, it was a long paragraph, she said "We are going on the best deal | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
on trade and on security." We could of course cope if we didn't have the | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
deal on security but, it would make us weaker and we should make our | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
relationship stronger, so we should redouble our efforts. Honestly, | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
no-one could fairly call that a threat. It is a statement of fact. I | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
didn't call it a threat Some have. But I asked, was it necessary for | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
the Prime Minister to say that? Well, I think it is a statement of | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
fact, that we are not saying, as some people have on the Project Fear | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
side that we will fall over a cliff. It says, of course, either side | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
could cope with this but we want to be stronger not weaker. I thought | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
Remainers said we would be weaker without the cooperation we are | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
saying we want an agreement and an agreement on trade. Let me get Paul | :13:29. | :13:36. | |
Blomfield's reaction? This letter has been weeks if not months in | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
preparation, it was carefully constructed and clearly deliberate | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
that in that one paragraph the threat of non-cooperation on | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
security was linked to the opportunity -... Well there wasn't a | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
threat of non-cooperation, it said it would weaken, there is no threat | :13:54. | :13:56. | |
of non-cooperation. Well the implication is there. You are right, | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
of course, Andrew, the wording is careful. But the implication was | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
there. What implication? Well, if we can't do a deal on trade that | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
satifies Britain, we may not do a deal on security. Now I think this | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
is playing games with something that is not just of interest to the rest | :14:15. | :14:18. | |
of Europe but is hugely important to the British people that we cooperate | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
on security. Sure. The two shouldn't be linked. But Downing Street, last | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
night, issued statement, or briefed that whatever is in this document | :14:29. | :14:35. | |
that's gone now, as our Article 50 process, does not refer in anyway to | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
by lateral sharing of intelligence. And it is bilateral sharing of | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
intelligence, Britain between and France, for example, which is by far | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
the most important intelligence sharing. Well, Downing Street need | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
to clarify, exactly what they did mean by that paragraph. Because it | :14:52. | :15:01. | |
was taken to mean an interdependence in the discussions Anti-Terrorism, | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
Crime and Security Act cooperation and trade. "In security terms, | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
fwalure to reach agreement of an overall deal would mean our | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
cooperation against the fight against crime and terrorism would be | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
weakened." That's right. Isn't it a statement of the object Jews It is | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
and of critical importance to the British people that we maintain | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
that. It was unfortunate but I'm sure thoughtfully considered that it | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
was linked in the same car graph on trade. Sho -- a statement of the | :15:31. | :15:38. | |
obvious. When you look at the scale of what | :15:39. | :15:46. | |
hers to be done, the divorce Bill settlement has got to be agreed, and | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
we seem to be pretty far apart on that, and it's very complicated as | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
well. Then we have to agree, and the Prime Minister said to me last | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
night, a comprehensive free trade agreement. Can all that he done by | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
October of 2018 to begin the ratification process? The total | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
processes to make years, but you're right, we need to do the lion's | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
share within 18 months. It is feasible with goodwill on all sides, | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
but you are right - it will be a challenge. Could you not see a | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
transitional period, not an implementation period, which is the | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
language of the Government, but a transitional period well, although | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
there may be agreement by the end of the Brexit process, things will | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
remain to be resolved in a transitional period? First, I think | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
it is great news that people are talking not about whether this deal | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
can be done but Hal. The timescale is tight because the EU has imposed | :16:47. | :16:52. | |
that on us, but there we are. It was the Lisbon Treaty that we all voted | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
for. On outside... Article 50 was drafted by a Brit. Under a Brit. But | :16:59. | :17:11. | |
about the transitional point... I am saying this is an EU rule that we | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
have to stick to. It is not anything the UK has chosen, certainly not | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
this Government. In terms of transitional and implementation | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
period, this is my personal view. If we get to the end of the two-year | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
deal, we've sorted out the principles and the lions share of | :17:28. | :17:34. | |
the future is there but we have not dealt with every detail, I think it | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
is interesting that some people were saying we needed an extra year to do | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
that, and I would be quite relaxed. If we only had a very short period, | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
the goodwill on all sides built up, we just need to make sure we don't | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
miss anything. I'm relaxed about it. The European position at the moment | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
is that they don't want to talk about our future relationship with | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
the EU until the matter of the divorce Bill, the divorce | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
settlement, has been agreed. Should the Government agree to that, or | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
should it demand that negotiations take place in parallel? I think | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
making demands of that sort, which would stall the process, would not | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
be helpful. Which demand - ours or theirs? The one that we would make | :18:24. | :18:27. | |
that we would only talk about the future in parallel with talking | :18:28. | :18:34. | |
about the settlement. So it's OK for Mr Barnier to demand that we had to | :18:35. | :18:38. | |
settle the divorce Bill before the future relationship, but it would be | :18:39. | :18:41. | |
wrong for us to demand that we do both at once? I mean, whose side are | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
you one? I am not saying that, Andrew. It is a matter of | :18:48. | :18:50. | |
discussion, and different comets from both sides have suggested there | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
may be spaced a compromise. The important thing is that we don't let | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
the discussion around the divorce Bill get in the way the discussion | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
on the future relationship. The Government at the moment is saying, | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
no, we need to discuss both in parallel, and indeed, the very idea | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
of a divorce Bill, which is controversial on this side of the | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
Channel, we can't agree to that until we see how good the new | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
arrangement is going to be, going forward. I'm trying to find out, | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
does your party agree with that or not? We think we need to get the | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
best settlement, going forward. I think it would make sense, Andrew, | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
if we could have parallel discussions, and I think | :19:34. | :19:43. | |
compromise... You have already compromised on this. Angela Merkel's | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
language has shifted subtly. She has said, we won't settle first but we | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
need the questions to be answered before we go for the dual track. I | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
think it is sadly and gently already been resolved. We shall see. Our | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
words were interesting, and they will not as hardline as the word | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
from Mr Barnier and Jean-Claude Juncker. We know you are a | :20:07. | :20:14. | |
backbencher. As a backbencher, can we agree, do you think, from the | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
comments David Davis made on Question Time on Monday night, and | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
the Prime Minister's replies to my questions last night about | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
immigration, that the 100,000 target is dead, never going to happen? In | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
the context of national policy as a whole or Brexit? That even once we | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
have left the EU, we are still not going to get anywhere near net | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
migration of 100,000. I think the Government has been clear. We want | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
to aim for that. Of course, when we get outside of the EU and we've got | :20:50. | :20:52. | |
the controls we want, actually, we'll be able to look at it in the | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
round and make sure we get the advantages of immigration, but also | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
check the costs and strains. I am not particularly wedded to arbitrary | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
targets. So it is dead? One thing that is crucial is that the overall | :21:07. | :21:10. | |
volume of immigration can be reduced, and that we got control, | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
because that's what the public want to see. But neither on Monday night | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
this did Mr Davies, or the Prime Minister last night, mention the | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
target. I did, but they didn't. That is significant. What do you want me | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
to do, postmortem your interviews? I want to know if you think that the | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
target is dead. I will give you this: It is pretty demanding, but | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
the most important thing is, the volume can come down. More | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
importantly than that, the qualitative side, making sure we get | :21:45. | :21:50. | |
the advantages of migration. I want to hear from Roz. Immigration | :21:51. | :21:58. | |
control and the implication of a substantial fall in numbers was put | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
at the very heart of the argument, one of the most significant factors. | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
One of the major reasons, I emphasise just one, why a lot of | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
people voted to leave. You are right, it was. Since then, they have | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
been talking down expectations. David Davis has been in a stony, | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
saying to East European workers, it will take years and years and years, | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
don't worry, there is little changing. Do you think it is dead? | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
Yes, and it has been for a long time. It certainly hasn't been | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
achieved, that's for sure! It may be like that Monty Python parrot. I | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
think that having this arbitrary number should never have actually | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
been promised in any case. We have an ageing population and we need | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
immigration. If you have economic growth, and part of the reasons why | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
we have had immigration is because of the economic success we've | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
achieved, and we need these people to come in. With an ageing | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
population and a growing economy, it is imperative that we continue to | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
have immigration. More than half has come outside the EU anyway. You | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
can't put a number on it. If the economy slows down, or if more | :23:13. | :23:21. | |
ageing people keep working... In terms of EU immigration, people have | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
been coming here to work and do the jobs we need done. We will leave it | :23:26. | :23:28. | |
there, but I think we are holding you two hostage. Cos I know you are | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
enjoying it so much! Just when you thought | :23:33. | :23:34. | |
we we were leaving the Europe, or the EU at least, a French | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
word keeps being used Yes, talking about the "acquis" | :23:38. | :23:39. | |
or "acquis communitaire" is de It's the accumulated legislation, | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
legal acts, and court decisions which constitute the body | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
of European Union law. Today the Government is launching | :23:49. | :23:50. | |
a white paper in preparation for a bill that will transfer | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
all that into British law. The perhaps misleadingly titled | :23:54. | :23:55. | |
"Great Repeal Bill" White Paper has been published in the last hour | :23:56. | :24:02. | |
by the Brexit Secretary, We have been clear that we want a | :24:03. | :24:12. | |
smooth and orderly exit, and the Great Repeal Bill is integral to | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
that approach. It will provide clarity and certainty for | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
businesses, workers and consumers across the United Kingdom on the day | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
we leave the EU. It will mean that as we exit the EU and seek a new | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
comedy and special partnership with the EU, we will be doing so from a | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
position where we have the same standards and rules. But it will | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
also ensure that we deliver on our promise to end the supremacy of | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
European Union law in the UK as we exit puts our laws will then be made | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
in London, Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast, and interpreted not by | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
judges in Luxembourg but by judges across the UK. The question is, how | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
is it done and what done? The White Paper on the question of how gives | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
sweeping powers to the executive. Sweeping because it proposes a power | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
to use delegated legislation to correct and thus change primary | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
legislation and also devolved legislation by delegated | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
legislation. Sweeping because of the sheer scale of the exercise. In | :25:16. | :25:22. | |
those circumstances, one might expect some pretty rigorous | :25:23. | :25:27. | |
safeguards to the use of these sweeping powers, but none are found | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
in the White Paper. David Davis and Kia Starmer there in the Commons. | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Dominic Raab, is this a cut and paste job rather than a Great Repeal | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
Bill? There are two stages. We want to get the applicable laws from the | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
EU into UK law so we have certainty. We can then decide which repatriated | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
laws we want to keep, where there are EU laws that will I, where we | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
want to revise them, repeal them entirely. This does two things. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
First, make sure that the people watching this show can hold the | :26:04. | :26:08. | |
people that write the laws of the land accountable. Second, it gives | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
us certain click -- certainty. The Henry VIII close... Explain that, | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
because not everyone will know. -- clause. Let's stick on the certainty | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
issue - do you think it will give certainty and ensure a smooth | :26:32. | :26:33. | |
transition incorporating thousands of pieces of EU legislation into UK | :26:34. | :26:41. | |
law in the first instance? Dominic has let the cat out of the bag, if | :26:42. | :26:45. | |
it was not already, that it incorporates the laws into UK law | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
and then they will start taking them apart, which is why they were keen | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
to get out of the EU in the first place. We're talking about important | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
protections in employment, for consumers and for the environment. | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
Which ones do you think he will remove, not him personally, but the | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
Brexiteers? Many of his colleagues have been talking about employment | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
laws because they see them as holding back business. I have | :27:12. | :27:17. | |
already been clear on this. We have fairly difficult challenges in the | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
workplace, with the so-called gig economy. Let's take the quote from | :27:21. | :27:29. | |
Priti Patel, still in the Cabinet, but who last year said the Institute | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
of Directors, are dozens of laws in proposed, with the cost totalling | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
?32 billion. Money that should be invested in jobs and growth is tied | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
up in red tape and appeasing the EU's bureaucracy. We could deliver a | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
?4.3 billion boost to our economy and 60,000 new jobs. So you're going | :27:52. | :27:55. | |
to, or would like to, cut in half the burdens of the EU social and | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
employment legislation? You like the Prime Minister has been clear, we | :28:00. | :28:07. | |
will not Whee Kim workers' rights. You can relieve the pressure on | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
small businesses without Di looting right. For example, the Digital | :28:12. | :28:20. | |
economy -- Whee... The cat is not out of the bag. We have said... You | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
said you would look at the laws you like and those you don't. Just put | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
it in the context of what you are saying, and you will keep the ones | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
you like. The ones you may not like could be the social employment | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
legislation, or Priti Patel is wrong. We want to leave the EU but | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
have the laws of the land in a place where we have certainty for | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
businesses and citizens. Of course, as a process of taking back control, | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
we will work out sensibly, Caerphilly, just as everyone would | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
expect, which laws help and which we want to keep, and which ones hinder | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
and which we want to get rid of. You were a work -- carefully. The Prime | :29:01. | :29:13. | |
Minister is right that we must transpose EU law into our own so | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
that we have certainty. Right, you are agreed. Theresa but we need to | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
be mindful that a number of the red tape regulations have been our own, | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
imposed by ourselves, with gold plating. We need to look at that. | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
These Henry VIII powers, I think, Parliament needs again to be mindful | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
that we don't want just one section of the ministerial team to be able | :29:38. | :29:46. | |
to override primary legislation. We have two years, a diplomatic track, | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
and we have to make sure we're just a laws to reflect the deal we | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
strike. So you will go over the heads of Parliament? No, let's be | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
clear. The constitutional committee of the House of Lords have said that | :29:59. | :30:07. | |
it is imperative if you're going to get legal certainty in two years, to | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
have some Henry VIII clauses. This would be pushing through, as some | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
people would argue, pushing through secondary legislation, which would | :30:20. | :30:24. | |
mean it would not be the same level. Excuse me, Dominic Raab, I am | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
talking. I am saying what the clauses are, and they could be used | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
to actually pass legislation without the same level of scrutiny as | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
exists... You said gathering round. I did not. I said pushing through, | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
passing legislation that means you don't have the full scrutiny of | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
Parliament. Is that something you are worried about? | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
Snoonchts deeply worried T talks about correcting, using secondary | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
legislation, negative resolutions, no debate to correct primary | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
legislation. There is no precedence of that. I accept we are in a | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
completely unprecedented situation and I note... Plenty of... I will | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
come back to you. I know what the Lords are saying, we need some | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
assurance that is no primary legislation affecting important | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
rights for people and protections will be involved and secondly, we | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
could set up an independent body to just oversee what is pushed into | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
secondary legislation. But how long would that take We have had the | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
former clerk of the House of Commons today, and he should know, he is an | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
expert in these things, saying, actually it could take ten years to | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
extricate Britain from EU legislation unless there are some | :31:39. | :31:42. | |
powers the executive has where they'll argue it is for relatively | :31:43. | :31:46. | |
meaner bits of legislation, we will be doing this for ten years. - | :31:47. | :31:54. | |
minor. I this for minor bits that's fine but lets make sure by having | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
proper oversight. Tim Farron has said that - we are going to launch a | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
legislative war, we'll grind the Government's agenda to a stand still | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
unless proper and vigorous safeguards are given over the Great | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
Repeal Bill and the bill is now in the Prime Minister's court. Do you | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
sign up to this? ? Know, it is not our yobbive to make things grind to | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
a halt. It is to make sure there is proper accountability. By all means | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
put some stuff into secondary legislation but make sure there is | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
proper oversight and it is simply not a Government legislation. David | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
Davis said the UK must follow the EU case law up to the point of bricts. | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
Do you accept that? We have to make sure EU law and obligations are met | :32:39. | :32:42. | |
up until the point we leave, we need pragmatism and speed and flexibility | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
to achieve that. Do you think it'll go beyond that European Court of | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
Justice, or you don't want to see... I think there will be an issue | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
around regulatory equivalence, where if we want to export into the EU | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
we'll have to be mindful of their standards which will include the | :32:59. | :33:00. | |
case law but that's something totally different. All right. Thank | :33:01. | :33:01. | |
you both. Now, some of today's younger | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
employees could be working into their 70s before they can | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
claim the state pension. At least, that's one of the ideas | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
being considered by the Government as it looks to make the rising | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
pensions bill more affordable. And while there's no talk | :33:17. | :33:19. | |
of retirement here - JoCo and I long ago abandoned hope | :33:20. | :33:21. | |
of that - not everybody likes the idea of working | :33:22. | :33:24. | |
into their twilight years. ARCHIVE: National Insurance | :33:25. | :33:26. | |
contributions are going to build up a better standard of | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
comfort for the old. Back in the 1940s, not many people | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
lived beyond the age of 70, so they didn't have a | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
very long retirement. Today's 65-year-olds are expected | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
to live into their mid-80s, but this is costly for the public | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
purse, with state pension spending due to go up by ?20 billion | :33:45. | :33:47. | |
over the next 20 years, so the Government is looking at ways | :33:48. | :33:50. | |
to bring down the One proposal is for today's 20- | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
somethings to wait until they're in their 70s | :33:54. | :34:04. | |
before they qualify for the state pension, | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
and as you can imagine, | :34:07. | :34:07. | |
that's going to have big implications you do a physical | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
job, like these guys. I don't have a personal pension, | :34:11. | :34:12. | |
so I'll be relying on the state pension, and I don't | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
think that I'll be able to work till I'm 70 in this | :34:17. | :34:18. | |
physical environment. And in the future, that's | :34:19. | :34:21. | |
going to be a softer So, what are your pension | :34:22. | :34:28. | |
plans for the future? I haven't really thought that far | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
ahead yet, but I need to. But, yeah, got to definitely | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
think about retiring, and I don't really want to be | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
working until I'm 70, definitely Meanwhile, a review | :34:47. | :34:48. | |
by former CBI boss John Cridland recommends | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
that a state pension That's seven years earlier | :34:53. | :34:53. | |
than currently planned. The age changes, | :34:54. | :34:58. | |
together with the removal of the triple lock, which | :34:59. | :35:05. | |
uprates pensions by inflation, earnings, | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
or 2.5%, could result I believe the most | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
this one generation of pensioners can bear | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
is being asked to wait The Government may need to save more | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
money because of the problems of an ageing society | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
on public expenditure. If they should save more | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
money, don't go to the state pension age, look | :35:28. | :35:29. | |
at the indexation arrangements What about those people | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
doing physical jobs - Can they really be | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
expected to work into In hard manual jobs | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
in your mid-60s is a really tough thing to ask, but people can | :35:42. | :35:48. | |
re-skill to do other jobs. Someone on a construction | :35:49. | :35:52. | |
site has very valuable skills | :35:53. | :35:53. | |
in the retail sector. When we go to a DIY store, | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
we talk to someone who has done the role that they are then | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
helping us to do. I'm not saying that it's easy, | :36:04. | :36:05. | |
but it is possible to re-skill The first state pension | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
came in in 1909. You would take your pension book | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
to the post office, cash it in Back then, though, | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
you had to be 70 to qualify, and we could be | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
going back to that. The Government is due | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
to make its response to the state And who better to discuss | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
all of that with than Ros Altmann, So Ros, the state pension age for | :36:27. | :36:46. | |
men is 65 at the moment. It is between 60 and 65 for wi. It is to | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
rise for 66 for both -- for wi. It is to rise to 66 for both by 2020 | :36:52. | :36:58. | |
and due it reach 48 for both by 2046. Is that enough for should it | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
go higher? I actually think that we need n my view, to get away from | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
this idea that there is one magic age which you keep pushing up, that | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
everybody has to live by. The problem we've got is we have vast | :37:13. | :37:15. | |
differences in life expectancy across the country. And some people | :37:16. | :37:21. | |
have a life expectancy, 15 or 20 years less than others in our | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
country. Some people have very hard, physical labour jobs, some people | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
started work at 15 and contributed to National Insurance and could be | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
contributing for well over 50 years, taking one-quarter of their salary | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
and yet, unless they live long enough to reach this ever-rising | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
state pension age, they may get absolutely... They may never get | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
anything back. That seems to me to be inflexible in a way that isn't | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
socially enwhich tab. But -- equitable? How would you have a | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
variable pension age? How would you do it? A number of ways. My favoured | :37:57. | :38:02. | |
option would be to have a band of ages which recognises different life | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
expectancy and different job experience. So, for example, if you | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
have contributed to national insurance for 50 or more years, you | :38:11. | :38:16. | |
started work at 15 or 16, then from 65 or 66 you can start it get some | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
state pension. Possibly if you are seriously unwell, in the same way as | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
the private pension system recognises that, there could be some | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
recognition. The problem we've got at the moment is - if you're healthy | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
and wealthy enough to live to the actual state pension starting age, | :38:36. | :38:38. | |
and you don't take it, you can get a lot more. But if you are unhealthy | :38:39. | :38:45. | |
or not wealthy enough to wait, it's tough luck. Until you reach that | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
age, 67, 68, whatever it is going to be, or even more, you get not a | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
penny and that seems to me, not to reflect the flexibility that we need | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
and probably should accommodate in our system. Can I check one issue of | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
principle with you. All the projections are based on the | :39:05. | :39:08. | |
assumption that longevity is rising and people are living longer and | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
they are doing the kind of jobs that is not manual labour where it is | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
really difficult to carry on after you are 60, never mind 65. But I | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
also see reports that today's younger generation is in many ways | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
less healthy than their parents. Are we sure people are going to keep on | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
living longer? And that's the other reason why I think continually | :39:33. | :39:35. | |
planning to increase and push the age up is not the right way to | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
manage state - or not the best way to manage state pension policy. In | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
fact, life expectancy has fallen in the last two or three years. And we | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
haven't fully understood why yet. What we do need, though, and I think | :39:50. | :39:53. | |
what is more powerful in controlling the costs of state pension in our | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
ageing population is perhaps to look at the way in which the state | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
pension increases each year. Let me come on to that. The other big issue | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
is the triple lock, everybody calls t the Government is committed to it, | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
I think the Labour opposition is committed to T so state pensions go | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
up -- committed to it. State pensions go up by CPI, or average | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
earnings or two-and-a-half %, whichever is the higher. That's | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
right. It's expensive. You get signs the Government is trying to find | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
ways of getting out of this, at least for the next election and so | :40:30. | :40:39. | |
on. Should we keep it, adjust it or drop it? To be honest, I would be in | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
favour of keeping it until 2020. They have to do that. We have | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
committed to do so. But after that, looking at it differently because | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
the 2.5% doesn't make any sense from an economic or social perspective. | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
It is just a random number, picked from the air in a way. But also, I | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
think what Labour hasn't necessarily understood and what pensioners | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
generally need to realise is that the triple lock is a bit of a trick. | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
It doesn't cover the whole of the state pension and indeed the triple | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
lock does not protect properly, the poorest and the oldest pensioners, | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
who are the very groups you would most want to protect. They don't get | :41:17. | :41:23. | |
the triple lock. They don't? The Pension Credit, the means-tested | :41:24. | :41:26. | |
benefit for all the pensioners who don't have enough income from their | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
state pension. From the state pension alone. Is not triple locked. | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
Only the basic state pension in the old state system is protected to | :41:37. | :41:40. | |
around ?120 a week. The new state pension is fully protected up to | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
?160 but only available to the youngest pensioners, so it is the | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
wrong way around. So you are saying there are 1.6 million pensioners. I | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
mean pensioners are much better off, on average, than they used to be 20 | :41:55. | :42:02. | |
or 30 years ago On average but... My but is coming but 1.6 million | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
pensioners, one in seven are still living in poverty and you are saying | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
the triple lock, that many people would most benefit from the triple | :42:13. | :42:14. | |
lock, they are actually not. They don't. Absolutely. I think we need | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
to reconsider this idea. The 2.5% adds hugely to the forecast | :42:22. | :42:24. | |
long-term costs of delivering the state pension. It adds billions of | :42:25. | :42:29. | |
pounds. If we just love to a double lock, that would take the pressure | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
off the rises in state pension age and will also be fairer if we can | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
apply it properly... To the poorer pensioners. Yes. All right. We'll | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
leave it there. A lot to be discussed in the years ahead before | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
the parties decide on manifesto for 2020. Only another 30 years of work. | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
Now, the former Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, is appearing | :42:54. | :42:55. | |
in front of a Labour Party disciplinary panel to answer | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
allegations that he's brought the party into disrepute. | :42:59. | :42:59. | |
Mr Livingstone is currently suspended from the party | :43:00. | :43:02. | |
after a series of interviews last year in which he suggested - | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
amongst other things - that Adolf Hitler supported Zionism | :43:06. | :43:07. | |
before his appointment as Chancellor of Germany in 1933. | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
Here's a clip of Mr Livingstone's appearance on the Daily Politics | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
last April, when he was asked about those comments | :43:16. | :43:17. | |
If I was to criticise the South African Government you wouldn't say | :43:18. | :43:36. | |
I was racist, you would say I was critical of that Government. | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
Blurring these things undermines the importance of anti-Semitism. A real | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
anti-Semite doesn't hate the Jews in Israel they hate them in Stoke | :43:48. | :43:54. | |
Newington or Islington. It is a physical loathing. | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
And this morning, our cameras caught up with Mr Livingstone as he entered | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
that disciplinary hearing, and he was asked again | :44:00. | :44:01. | |
I simply said back in 1933, Hitler's Government signed a deal | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
with the Zionist movement which would mean that Germany's Jewish | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
community were moved to what is now Israel. | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
That's very different to saying that Hitler supported | :44:11. | :44:12. | |
The SS set up training camps so that German Jews, | :44:13. | :44:24. | |
who were going to go there, could be trained to cope with a very | :44:25. | :44:28. | |
different sort of country when they got there. | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
We're joined by Mike Catts from the Jewish Labour movement. And | :44:35. | :44:44. | |
Jonathan Rosenhead, who is giving evidence | :44:45. | :44:45. | |
We heard the first clip. I take it it is all right that it is all right | :44:46. | :45:03. | |
to hate Jews in Israel, as long as you don't hate them anywhere else in | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
the world. Anti-Semitism has had hatred at its heart but it isn't | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
expressed at hatred, it is discrimination, it is not wanting to | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
live next to them or the rest of things. A whole range of things. He | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
said it is OK to hate them in Israel. No I think he was pointing | :45:23. | :45:25. | |
out that talking about Israel and Jews is inappropriate much this is | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
about Jews, it has nothing to do with Israel. He didn't say that, I | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
have to say. What I actually said, though, we have to listen to what he | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
said because he is defending himself against claims of anti-Semitism. He | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
said "You are only a real anti-Semite if you hate all Jews, | :45:41. | :45:46. | |
not just those in Israel." So you can hate Jews in Israel and still... | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
You are reading that in. It is up to you, it is not in the words. What | :45:52. | :45:53. | |
else would you read into it? Criticism of Israel is not criticism | :45:54. | :46:05. | |
of Jews, and it is not anti-Semitic. What do you think? I think the | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
reputational damage of his comments on the Labour Party... That is what | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
is really at stake here. He came in last year to defend an MP after | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
comments she made. She immediately put her hand up and said, what I | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
have done is wrong, and she is a shining example of how you can go on | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
a journey of education and realise why doing something is anti-Semitic. | :46:31. | :46:37. | |
Is Ken Livingstone anti-Semitic? Very hard to understand someone who | :46:38. | :46:42. | |
turns victimhood into Calabria late -- collaboration. I was a GLA | :46:43. | :46:53. | |
candidate and he was on radio London telling people that Hitler | :46:54. | :46:56. | |
supporting Zionism was a very matter-of-fact thing. When we go out | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
on the doorstep in Jewish areas, a question we get asked is why he has | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
not been expelled yet. That is why the NEC has referred this to the | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
panel. What is the point of making all these comments? He wasn't asked | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
about Hitler or Zionism, or in fact anything to do with the pre-2nd | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
World War period, so why make these comments? One may wonder why he made | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
that the tour. Well, I am asking you. Everything he said is factually | :47:30. | :47:35. | |
correct. Will come onto that in a second. Hitler and the Nazis | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
negotiated for many years and got concessions from the Zionist | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
movement. Both movements wanted to get the Jews out of Germany. Do you | :47:46. | :47:51. | |
think it is offensive to talk about Adolf Hitler and not as and Zionism | :47:52. | :47:57. | |
in the same breath all these years after 6 million Jews died in the | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
Holocaust? The Holocaust was one of the major seminal events of our | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
political experience. It is a conference reference by all people | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
in political discussion, the same as apartheid, to say that you cannot | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
talk about Israel in the same breath as Nazism is a restriction of free | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
expression. The Holocaust educational trust is an independent | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
body that has done a lot of work in education. It points out when | :48:29. | :48:32. | |
commenting on Mr Livingstone's comments that he is throwing around | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
the Holocaust like political confetti, and that deliberate misuse | :48:37. | :48:39. | |
of the Holocaust is anti-Semitic as he has a duty of care. He is high | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
profile and has done some important job, so he should have a better | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
sense not to say these things he thinks he can justify them on narrow | :48:48. | :48:54. | |
academic grounds. Either I think that in dispute, but that is by the | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
way. He should have better sense than to repeat some of this stuff | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
this morning. I don't know how he thinks that we'll win over the panel | :49:04. | :49:07. | |
or repair his reputational damage with the Jewish community. The fact | :49:08. | :49:11. | |
that Ken Livingstone says, when we're talking about Zionism and not | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
as in, 6 million Jews were murdered on the orders of Adolf Hitler, and | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
he makes a connection between that and the existence of the state of | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
Israel, is that helpful on the doorstep for the Labour Party? I | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
think the Labour Party should be grown-up enough to have a serious | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
discussion, instead of having red lines and saying you cannot discuss | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
this. The Jewish labour movement has many members. On the question of | :49:43. | :49:50. | |
Jewish people identifying with Israel, researchers found that 91% | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
of them do. You are kidding yourself if you think this is inoffensive. We | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
have had comments from the Labour Party and across the Jewish | :50:00. | :50:06. | |
community, Chief Rabbis, trusts, and lots of people have said this is | :50:07. | :50:09. | |
offensive, in a very common-sense way. It has been said that it is | :50:10. | :50:18. | |
biased and that this panel is being held in secret - what do you say to | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
that? I must say, I find this attitude very puzzling. Ken | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
Livingstone must be aware that his remarks were gratuitously offensive. | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
If he did not intend that at the time, he knew afterwards and he kept | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
repeating them. This issue is about the reputation of the Labour Party, | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
and how it has impacted on it, his remarks. He came out to defend | :50:42. | :50:47. | |
remarks by an MP who herself said she had been anti-Semitic by trying | :50:48. | :50:53. | |
to say they were not anti-Semitic. Things like, everything Hitler did | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
in Germany was legal. That is not about Israel, that is about | :50:57. | :51:03. | |
anti-Semitism, so I think it is very difficult to quite understand what | :51:04. | :51:08. | |
his idea of anti-Semitism truly is. Do you think he is anti-Semitic? | :51:09. | :51:13. | |
What he has done has certainly come across that way. But the decision | :51:14. | :51:21. | |
that needs to be made by the panel is, what impact did it have on the | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
Labour Party? Did it bring the party into dispute before the May oral | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
election? Does he have anything to apologise for? No. The people who | :51:31. | :51:38. | |
have attacked him and Jeremy Corbyn have brought much more offence and | :51:39. | :51:44. | |
disrepute on the party than he has. You may join me canvassing in | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
Finchley and Golders Green and other areas. London has the largest Jewish | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
population in the country, and where we live, we know that there are lots | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
of Jewish voters. Tell me they don't ask why Ken hasn't been dispelled | :51:59. | :52:09. | |
from the party. Frankly, honestly, we have the mainstream Jewish | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
opinion on our side in this case. We have to leave it there. Thank you | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
for coming in. I knew we would not get through the | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
morning without mentioning Hitler, and we didn't! | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
Now, back to our main story - the triggering of Article 50. | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
After her statement in the House, the Prime Minister then took | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
questions from MPs for three and a half hours. | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
She told journalists last night that she only had an apple and a few | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
nuts to sustain her before that marathon session in the Commons. | :52:35. | :52:37. | |
The Article 50 process is now underway, and in accordance with the | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
wishes of the British people, the United Kingdom is leaving the | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
This is an historic moment from which there can be no | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
The Prime Minister says that no deal is better than a | :52:52. | :52:59. | |
But the reality is, no deal IS is a bad deal. | :53:00. | :53:12. | |
What we on these benches have become accustomed | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
to the views of members on the other side of the House being incapable of | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
understanding that the people of Scotland voted to remain in the | :53:20. | :53:21. | |
The substance of the deal that we achieve, and I'm | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
interested in the outcomes of this deal, will be the best possible deal | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
for the people of the whole of the United Kingdom. | :53:31. | :53:35. | |
And I especially welcome that we want a special | :53:36. | :53:37. | |
relationship with the EU based on friendship, | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
trade and many other collaborations, once we are an | :53:41. | :53:42. | |
This day, of all days, the Liberal Democrats | :53:43. | :53:48. | |
will not roll over as the official opposition have done. | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
Our children and our grandchildren will judge all of us | :53:52. | :53:58. | |
I am determined that I will look my children | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
say that I did everything to prevent this calamity | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
that the Prime Minister has today chosen. | :54:08. | :54:11. | |
It's never been more true - the devil will be in the | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
As that detail emerges, will the Prime Minister ensure that | :54:15. | :54:23. | |
everyone in her teens stop the practice which has been | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
so prevalent of claiming that every awkward | :54:27. | :54:28. | |
question is evidence of a desire to overturn the will of the British | :54:29. | :54:31. | |
Because nothing will more surely destroy that unity of purpose | :54:32. | :54:34. | |
It was pretty lively in the Commons yesterday. Theresa May has now | :54:35. | :54:46. | |
delivered her Article 50 letter to politicians. | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
but politicians don't always follow through when they ask | :54:50. | :54:51. | |
the public a question, and the public give them an answer | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
That's a dilemma that's facing councillors in the Isle of Wight, | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
who are putting an even more weighty decision to a public vote. | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
When the Isle of Wight Council invited the public to vote for the | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
name of their chain ferry, officers stated that a certain | :55:06. | :55:08. | |
name, Floaty McFloatface, would not be accepted. | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
And you guessed it, a petition was sooned signed by more than 1000 | :55:13. | :55:15. | |
people, calling for it to be named just that. | :55:16. | :55:18. | |
This week the council leader slapped down his officials | :55:19. | :55:20. | |
and said if this name was the most popular, | :55:21. | :55:23. | |
This was all the fault, of course of Boaty McBoatface, the | :55:24. | :55:31. | |
name suggested by a public poll for a polar research ship which was | :55:32. | :55:36. | |
blocked by ministers and given to this sub instead. | :55:37. | :55:38. | |
We just don't know what's good for us. | :55:39. | :55:40. | |
Strictly viewers voted John Segreant back on the | :55:41. | :55:42. | |
competition, week after week, until he bowed out voluntarily. | :55:43. | :55:44. | |
Lawmakers overturned a public vote to name a | :55:45. | :55:49. | |
And in Austin, Texas, people tried unsuccessfully | :55:50. | :55:59. | |
to name the city's waste management service, after Limp Bizkit front | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
Some people at first thought this man was a joke | :56:02. | :56:07. | |
Voters have until the end of next week to make suggestions for the | :56:08. | :56:16. | |
floating bridge, before the top six names also go to the polls, | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
and as the BBC remains impartial, we will just say that we do not | :56:21. | :56:24. | |
favour Floaty McFloatface above any of the other names available. | :56:25. | :56:28. | |
And we can speak now to Sally Perry, the journalist | :56:29. | :56:30. | |
who broke the story of this attempted democratic outrage. | :56:31. | :56:36. | |
She writes for the local news website 'On the Wight'. | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
That's a good name. Hello. It's going to be called Floaty | :56:42. | :56:51. | |
McFloatface, isn't it? Oti I guess, you've seen the number of people who | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
have signed a petition so far, and it's over 2000. It is known locally | :56:55. | :57:02. | |
as Floaty anyway, so calling it Floaty McFloatface is well-suited. | :57:03. | :57:12. | |
Maybe it will just be shortened. Whether it would stand the test of | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
time, I don't know, but at the moment, everybody seems very happy | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
about it and it is putting a smile on lots of faces, just even the | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
thought of it. Once you see it on the side of the floating bridge, I | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
think it could become a tourist attraction. I'm sure it will! Whose | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
bright idea was it to ask the public what this bridge should be named? | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
One of the councillors raised it in a meeting a couple of weeks ago, and | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
then a press release came out on the council last week with that little | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
Bthe bottom, and you know what happens when you tell people that | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
they can't do something! -- with that little veto. Did you do this to | :57:52. | :58:04. | |
get -- did they do this to get publicity? He is not a councillor | :58:05. | :58:11. | |
who is shy of media attention, so you could be right! Is it a nice | :58:12. | :58:18. | |
bridge? It is brilliant, such fun to ride on, a real novelty. It is a | :58:19. | :58:26. | |
lifeline for a lot of people. I live in the south of the island, so it is | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
a novelty when I go on it. When visitors come to the island to see | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
us, we always take them on the floating bridge. Sally Perry, thank | :58:35. | :58:40. | |
you for that. I look forward to seeing Floaty next time I am in the | :58:41. | :58:44. | |
Isle of Wight. Have you ever vetoed a name, Roz? The last time I heard | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
about it was when I was in primary school and we were asked to come up | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
with names the teams, and a teacher said about one suggestion, you can | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
have whatever you want, but not that! Lets ask the viewers what we | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
should be called. Time to end this programme! | :59:05. | :59:05. | |
The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :59:06. | :59:12. | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow with all the big | :59:13. | :59:36. | |
Marine Le Pen has her eyes on the French presidency. | :59:37. | :59:40. |