20/04/2017 Daily Politics


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20/04/2017

Andrew Neil is joined by UKIP's deputy chair Suzanne Evans. They look at what legislation the government is going to prioritise and at UKIP's prospects in the coming election.


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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:39.:00:40.

Jeremy Corbyn kicks off Labour's election campaign,

:00:41.:00:42.

promising to take on what he calls the "cosy cartel" of "wealth

:00:43.:00:45.

extractors" and saying he refuses to "doff his cap" to "powerful

:00:46.:00:48.

The Green Party also launch their election

:00:49.:00:55.

Their co-leader, Caroline Lucas, joins me live.

:00:56.:01:00.

Parliament enters what's called the 'wash-up',

:01:01.:01:02.

with just a few days left to run, what legislation will get rushed

:01:03.:01:05.

And Paul Nuttall's got just six weeks to prove

:01:06.:01:11.

himself as Ukip leader, according to Nigel Farage.

:01:12.:01:15.

We'll assess the party's prospects now that Brexit is under way.

:01:16.:01:26.

And with us for the whole of the programme today,

:01:27.:01:31.

the deputy chair of Ukip, Suzanne Evans.

:01:32.:01:33.

Nigel Farage, was asked if he was going to stand

:01:34.:01:43.

I've got to weigh up, how do I best help

:01:44.:01:53.

Do I do it by standing for the House of Commons, or do I do it

:01:54.:01:57.

by staying as leader of a group in the European Parliament, where

:01:58.:02:00.

ultimately, there's going to be a veto over the Brexit deal?

:02:01.:02:03.

I will decide over the next two days.

:02:04.:02:05.

I'm being pushed and pulled in different directions.

:02:06.:02:09.

I'm really, genuinely, at this moment in time,

:02:10.:02:11.

There we go - he is yet to make up his mind. Would you urge him to run?

:02:12.:02:18.

Yes, he should run again in South Thanet, Wade tried before. The

:02:19.:02:24.

Conservatives seem to behave -- seemed to behave rather badly in

:02:25.:02:29.

that election, according to reports. This is the issue of election

:02:30.:02:34.

misspending in 2015. Absolutely, so did the Conservatives have an unfair

:02:35.:02:38.

advantage? Nigel Farage missed it marginally, so let's have another

:02:39.:02:43.

go. If he did, and I know he always follows your advice, hangs on your

:02:44.:02:51.

every word, if he does run, it's a constituency where he ran before. As

:02:52.:02:54.

you say, there were problems with it and he may think he has a choice

:02:55.:02:58.

this time. It is close to London and the national media, so Nigel Farage

:02:59.:03:05.

becomes the face of Ukip in this election, not Paul Nuttall. I don't

:03:06.:03:10.

think so. We are deciding on candidate selection, what are our

:03:11.:03:15.

target seats, and we have done some work already. I think that South

:03:16.:03:19.

Thanet has to be one of those seats. We want someone reputable to run

:03:20.:03:23.

that. Should Paul Nuttall have another go at Stoke, where he lost?

:03:24.:03:28.

He is thinking about where best this time. He was talking before about

:03:29.:03:34.

standing in Andy Burnham's seat. Maybe Paul will feel that that is a

:03:35.:03:39.

better fit for him. Stoke was an unusual situation, wasn't it? Wets

:03:40.:03:44.

what about you? I won't be standing anywhere because -- what about you?

:03:45.:03:52.

I won't be standing anywhere. Why not? It will be head down from

:03:53.:03:58.

Monday and I would have time to do anything else. And it will be

:03:59.:04:05.

shorter this time? The manifesto was one of the shorter ones. We had some

:04:06.:04:12.

pretty pictures in it, too! Know we know you are writing the manifesto.

:04:13.:04:15.

The question for today is: Which leader's child has been

:04:16.:04:19.

pictured playing football in an Arsenal shirt?

:04:20.:04:24.

I am told that is something to do with association football.

:04:25.:04:28.

c) France's Francois Hollande, or d) Poland's Beata Szydlo?

:04:29.:04:32.

At the end of the show, Suzanne will hopefully give us

:04:33.:04:35.

Do you have any idea? I think I know even less about football than you

:04:36.:04:50.

do. That would put you into the negative category.

:04:51.:04:52.

So, Jeremy Corbyn kicked off Labour's election campaign this

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morning with a clear message: Don't write off Labour just yet.

:04:56.:04:57.

He told supporters in Westminster that while the mainstream media had

:04:58.:05:00.

written off the party's chances in the general election,

:05:01.:05:02.

he doesn't "play by the rules", and that he expected to pull off

:05:03.:05:07.

a dramatic turn-around in the party's fortunes.

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He took aim at big businesses, too, warning the likes of Southern Rail

:05:12.:05:15.

and Sir Philip Green that they should be 'afraid'

:05:16.:05:19.

Here's a little of what he had to say.

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Labour is the party that will put the interests of the majority first,

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while the Tories only really care about those who already have so

:05:29.:05:31.

That is why we - yes, we - will prove the establishment experts

:05:32.:05:48.

wrong and change the direction of this election, because the British

:05:49.:05:50.

people know that they are the true wealth creators, held back by a

:05:51.:05:54.

system rigged for the wealth extractors.

:05:55.:05:55.

Theresa May will insist that this is an election about

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She will try to downplay the issues that affect people's lives

:05:58.:06:01.

every day and instead turn the election into an ego trip

:06:02.:06:04.

about her own failing leadership, and the

:06:05.:06:08.

machinations of the coming negotiations in Brussels.

:06:09.:06:19.

It is only Labour that will focus on what kind

:06:20.:06:21.

of country we want to have after Brexit.

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In the coming weeks, Labour will lay out our policies to unlock

:06:25.:06:27.

opportunities for every single person in this country.

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We will focus on giving people real control

:06:31.:06:35.

over their own lives, and make sure that everyone reaps a just reward

:06:36.:06:41.

That was the Labour leader this morning.

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Mr Corbyn said that there is a rigged system, rigged to favour the

:06:50.:07:03.

wealth extractors. Who are they? In relation to the world of work, from

:07:04.:07:09.

which I came - it cannot be right that the percentage of profit going

:07:10.:07:14.

on wages has fallen dramatically but the percentage of profit going on

:07:15.:07:23.

top earners has increased dramatically. Boardroom excess. That

:07:24.:07:29.

is a global phenomenon on. I am in favour of rewarding success and I

:07:30.:07:32.

have worked with some good chief executives in my time, but it cannot

:07:33.:07:35.

be right. And understandably, working people resent that and want

:07:36.:07:40.

a fair share. I understand the argument. He talked about

:07:41.:07:45.

individuals and corporations as wealth extractors. Give me an

:07:46.:07:50.

example of one. Philip Green, for example. Is an individual. To bring

:07:51.:08:01.

alive what he is saying, you need to refer to a real example. I have met

:08:02.:08:07.

with BHS workers who work, some of them, 20 and 30 years and lost their

:08:08.:08:12.

jobs... Philip Green is an individual. Mr Corbyn said Philip

:08:13.:08:23.

Green should be worried by a Labour Government - why? Bad employers,

:08:24.:08:29.

wealth extractors, who treat working people shamefully, yes, they should

:08:30.:08:35.

be. What will you do to him? We will spell out in our manifesto the

:08:36.:08:39.

issues that will be central for us. You will mention him in the

:08:40.:08:43.

manifesto? We are determined to ensure that the voice of working

:08:44.:08:49.

people is properly heard... I understand, but why should Philip

:08:50.:08:52.

Green be worried? What do you have in store for him and the boss of

:08:53.:08:59.

Sports Direct? Wait and see what is in the manifesto. Do you know? Yes,

:09:00.:09:06.

we are sending an unambiguous message, which is that we want good

:09:07.:09:14.

employers to sexy, but we don't want ad employers to continue. All will

:09:15.:09:19.

be revealed. Let's look at some of Britain's big companies to find out

:09:20.:09:22.

how many wealth extractors there are around. Tesco? That is a company

:09:23.:09:30.

that has done very well. The relationship between Tesco and its

:09:31.:09:35.

workforce and their trade union is quite good. Is it a wealth

:09:36.:09:40.

extractor? It has sometimes not paid enough to the people it employs. So

:09:41.:09:46.

it is? Would ie equate Tesco with Sir Philip Green? Not for one

:09:47.:09:51.

moment. But you can't change the economy the way you want on the

:09:52.:09:56.

basis of Philip Green, no matter what it is that you have in store.

:09:57.:10:02.

British Telecom? It sometimes leaves something to be desired. Is it a

:10:03.:10:06.

wealth extractor? You are not getting the point, that our

:10:07.:10:12.

criticism and our concern on behalf of working people is, those who

:10:13.:10:17.

extract wealth wrongly and at the expense of working people, and who

:10:18.:10:21.

do not treat their workforce fairly or pay them a decent living wage. I

:10:22.:10:26.

understand the argument. I'm trying to find out who you have in mind.

:10:27.:10:30.

I've given a couple of examples already. British Gas? In my

:10:31.:10:39.

experience in the world of work, I charge a group that brought together

:10:40.:10:43.

public and private employers. We used to have good contractors

:10:44.:10:47.

complaining about being undercut by bad ones, so we stand for any

:10:48.:10:52.

economy of fair treatment, and also fair competition. You have said

:10:53.:10:57.

that. I am trying to find out who is in the cross hairs, because there is

:10:58.:11:00.

a lot hanging on this, and it would be good to know who you think is

:11:01.:11:06.

part of a rigged system that is a cosy cartel. Let me ask again - is

:11:07.:11:12.

Bill Gates a wealth extractor? He is a man who has made a fortune, but he

:11:13.:11:16.

is one of the most outstanding men in the world... Is he a wealth

:11:17.:11:24.

extractor or not? His wealth has been spent well, not just on his

:11:25.:11:30.

employees... Is he not a wealth extractor? Also, the outstanding

:11:31.:11:36.

work he has done as a great philanthropist. I know all about

:11:37.:11:42.

Bill Gates. You're not getting the point... The point is, you are not

:11:43.:11:45.

answering the question. Let me try again, because Mr Corbyn has divided

:11:46.:11:52.

the system into wealth creators and wealth extractors. Is Bill Gates a

:11:53.:11:56.

wealth extractor? You are not getting the point. I am not getting

:11:57.:12:02.

the answer. We are in favour of the creation of wealth. So is Bill Gates

:12:03.:12:06.

a wealth creator or extractor? Which one? What we want is any economy

:12:07.:12:16.

where you no longer get the roads undercutting the reputable. British

:12:17.:12:20.

Aerospace? It is a dam good company and I have worked with them over the

:12:21.:12:28.

years. Marks Spencer? I can see what you are trying to do, but you

:12:29.:12:32.

are missing the point. Let me give you this example: I remember, why

:12:33.:12:40.

not name it? The company ISS, one of the biggest contract is in the

:12:41.:12:45.

world. They said, we want to be good, we want to be better, but our

:12:46.:12:51.

problem is, we operate in a competitive environment where we are

:12:52.:12:55.

undercut by the rogues, so what we want to do, therefore, is to

:12:56.:12:59.

transform the nature of the economy so that good companies create wealth

:13:00.:13:04.

and succeed, so that workers benefit as a consequence. You have said that

:13:05.:13:09.

five times, so, other than Philip Green, in your view, who else is a

:13:10.:13:18.

world extractor? -- wealth extractor? We will say more in our

:13:19.:13:25.

manifesto. So you can say anything other than a high-profile

:13:26.:13:31.

businessman, a Buccaneer? Those who behave badly should be named and

:13:32.:13:37.

shamed. Let me try one more time - who else is a wealth extractor? You

:13:38.:13:42.

just have to wait forearm in a faster. Will you name them? We want

:13:43.:13:47.

to send the clearest possible message about the kind of economy we

:13:48.:13:55.

should become a -- economy we should be, what type of country we should

:13:56.:14:00.

be. Let me try something else. Do you agree with the Shadow Chancellor

:14:01.:14:05.

that anyone earning over ?70,000 a year is rich? They are not poor, are

:14:06.:14:10.

they? The average wage is ?27,000 a year. To earn ?70,000 a year is to

:14:11.:14:18.

live comfortably. Comfortably - MPs are over 70,000. Are you rich? I was

:14:19.:14:27.

brought up in poverty. We were all brought up in different

:14:28.:14:32.

circumstances. Are you rich? I get a very good wage. But are you rich? I

:14:33.:14:39.

don't feel that I am, no. Why has the Shadow Chancellor said that

:14:40.:14:42.

being rich means earning about 70,000? He is making a point about

:14:43.:14:48.

what type of economy we should have. Instead of doing what should be

:14:49.:14:53.

done, which is a fair deal for the great majority of Britain, you have

:14:54.:14:57.

got a Government that has been systematically, particularly at the

:14:58.:15:04.

top, handing out tax breaks to the rich, the corporation tax, the top

:15:05.:15:08.

rate of tax, all of the things that have made those with a lot of money

:15:09.:15:12.

yet more wealthy, but the great majority of ordinary people have

:15:13.:15:16.

lost out, not least because we have had the longest squeeze in real

:15:17.:15:20.

wages in a generation. ?70,000 a year is a good salary. It may not

:15:21.:15:26.

necessarily make you rich or make you feel that you are rich,

:15:27.:15:30.

particularly if you live in London and the Saudis, thank you no costs

:15:31.:15:38.

are very high. If you owned ?90,000, or ?100,000, at the moment, your

:15:39.:15:43.

marginal rate of tax is 40%. These people could expect to pay a higher

:15:44.:15:45.

marginal rate? We will put in our manifesto our

:15:46.:15:56.

intentions in relation to tax. Our focus is not on low and middle

:15:57.:16:05.

earners, our focus is that firstly you should pay your tax, secondly if

:16:06.:16:09.

you can afford much more then you should pay more. You will have to

:16:10.:16:16.

wait for our manifesto. But also firstly what we will do is to end

:16:17.:16:25.

the scandal of tax giveaways to the wealthy because that's exactly what

:16:26.:16:28.

this Government has been doing. Let me try one more time, if you are

:16:29.:16:33.

earning 70,000 per year, which you could be the head of the big English

:16:34.:16:38.

department in a comprehensive, it could be a relatively senior

:16:39.:16:42.

policeman, it could be a doctor, it could be a very senior nurse with a

:16:43.:16:48.

lot of responsibility, on that you should expect to pay a higher rate

:16:49.:16:55.

of tax? No, and our tax plans... So for these people the marginal rate

:16:56.:17:01.

is not going up? Our tax plans will be spelt out in the manifesto. Our

:17:02.:17:07.

focus... I know what your focus is, the people watching would like to

:17:08.:17:12.

know. They would like to know if they will pay more tax. They would

:17:13.:17:17.

quite like you to give me the opportunity to answer the question.

:17:18.:17:21.

The focus will be on tackling those who avoid paying their tax, the top

:17:22.:17:27.

rate earners who can and should pay more... Does not include people on

:17:28.:17:36.

70,000? Ending the giveaways. You are not answering my question, we

:17:37.:17:39.

will have to wait for the manifesto. Neil Kinnock says it is now more

:17:40.:17:46.

unlikely than ever that there will be a Labour government in his

:17:47.:17:51.

lifetime, do you agree? I am absolutely determined that we do not

:17:52.:17:55.

return to the dark days of the 1980s where we end up with 18 years of

:17:56.:18:02.

Conservative Winter. I fought with Neil... So do you disagree? I am

:18:03.:18:14.

absolutely determined. I am asking if you disagree. The British people

:18:15.:18:18.

need a Labour government and therefore we have got to be

:18:19.:18:22.

single-mindedly focused on rebuilding support, gaining power

:18:23.:18:26.

and changing the country for the better. A Labour Britain is always

:18:27.:18:32.

better than a Conservative written. The answer just doesn't bear

:18:33.:18:36.

resemblance to the question I asked. Jeremy Corbyn said this morning that

:18:37.:18:41.

the city, he didn't use the words but he said they, the city crashed

:18:42.:18:49.

the economy. Why after ten years of the Labour government did the Labour

:18:50.:18:52.

government allowed the city to crush the economy? I think there was a

:18:53.:18:57.

global problem where governments across the globe did not

:18:58.:19:01.

sufficiently regulate the finance sector. Straight answer to a

:19:02.:19:08.

straight question. Including the Labour government here. Labour took

:19:09.:19:13.

steps, opposed by the Tories every step of the way. But you accept that

:19:14.:19:20.

Labour presided over events that crashed the economy? We took steps

:19:21.:19:25.

to try and change that. The Tories opposed those steps, there was then

:19:26.:19:30.

the crash, and the appalling thing about what's happened subsequently

:19:31.:19:34.

is it is working people who paid the price. Which is a point Jeremy

:19:35.:19:39.

Corbyn made strongly. Thank you, I hope to see you and be more

:19:40.:19:45.

successful after the manifesto. Look forward to it. Douglas Carswell has

:19:46.:19:51.

decided not to run in this election, remember he defected from the Tories

:19:52.:19:59.

to Ukip, he won his seat, then left Ukip and became an independent in

:20:00.:20:06.

strong Ukip territory, but he's not running again. What is your

:20:07.:20:12.

reaction? I think Jack Dromey could look at some of the work Douglas

:20:13.:20:16.

Carswell has done on how you really tackle elites and what you really

:20:17.:20:25.

do... I understand but I was simply asking for your reaction. I am very

:20:26.:20:29.

surprised, I always thought Douglas was someone who... I think he did

:20:30.:20:35.

enjoy his job, he was a great advocate for people of Clacton. Let

:20:36.:20:43.

me give you another surprise, he's backing the Conservative candidate.

:20:44.:20:47.

We don't know who the Ukip candidate is yet so I suspect that is a little

:20:48.:20:55.

premature. It never rains but it pours for Ukip at the moment. It's

:20:56.:21:00.

an interesting time to be in politics and in Ukip as well, but it

:21:01.:21:06.

always is. We will have plenty of time to get... We are done. I will

:21:07.:21:11.

see you post manifesto, looking forward to it. Me too!

:21:12.:21:17.

Theresa May hasn't been out and about this morning.

:21:18.:21:19.

She's been in Downing Street for a series of meetings.

:21:20.:21:22.

But last night, the Prime Minister was in Bolton.

:21:23.:21:24.

She tried out some of the campaign lines we will be hearing a lot of in

:21:25.:21:27.

the next few weeks. It's a choice between strong and

:21:28.:21:37.

stable leadership under the Conservatives or weak and unstable

:21:38.:21:41.

coalition of chaos led by Jeremy Corbyn. And that is very clear. The

:21:42.:21:51.

other parties are lining up to prop up Jeremy Corbyn. We have seen it

:21:52.:21:55.

with the Liberal Democrats and we see it with the Scottish

:21:56.:22:02.

Nationalists. Theresa May there, she was speaking in Bolton, part of the

:22:03.:22:07.

north of Lancashire, where the Conservatives are hoping to pick up

:22:08.:22:10.

a few seats, particularly if they think the Ukip threat was not what

:22:11.:22:18.

it was. In the old days it was Bolton east, Bolton West, in these

:22:19.:22:24.

days it is swing seats. These are changed days.

:22:25.:22:25.

We're joined now by David Cameron's former deputy chief of staff,

:22:26.:22:28.

the Conservative MP Oliver Dowden, and by Alistair Carmichael,

:22:29.:22:30.

the Liberal Democrats' Home Affairs spokesperson.

:22:31.:22:35.

And the only Lib Dem in -- MP in Scotland. For the moment! What do

:22:36.:22:49.

you make of Jeremy Corbyn's attempts to stand up to the wealth

:22:50.:22:54.

extractors? It is interesting stuff but it's quite remarkable that in an

:22:55.:22:59.

election framed around Brexit armour which that is clearly the defining

:23:00.:23:04.

issue at least at the moment, Jeremy Corbyn has very little to say about

:23:05.:23:08.

it. My instinct is that I think it was probably quite a good move on

:23:09.:23:14.

his part to shift, because on Brexit he has a pretty weak story to tell.

:23:15.:23:19.

He was absent without leave during the referendum campaign and his

:23:20.:23:23.

so-called leadership under Article 50 has been pitiful. It is not

:23:24.:23:29.

necessary, simply because the Prime Minister calls the election, it

:23:30.:23:33.

isn't necessary for the Leader of the Opposition to go on with that.

:23:34.:23:37.

Jeremy Corbyn said this morning that the crash, caused by the financial

:23:38.:23:42.

system and by the institutions of the financial system, caused huge

:23:43.:23:49.

hardship for people who weren't responsible for the crash. People

:23:50.:23:51.

are suffering to some extent on that, whereas the people who caused

:23:52.:24:00.

it seem by and large to get away scot-free. Surely that's a

:24:01.:24:05.

legitimate point. Of course it is, but there is a danger for any

:24:06.:24:09.

political party that wants to talk about something other than the

:24:10.:24:14.

debate that is at the centre... He wants to talk about the standards of

:24:15.:24:20.

living for British people, what could be more important? Although

:24:21.:24:25.

Jeremy Corbyn was talking about an interesting analysis of the past,

:24:26.:24:28.

what will have an impact on the living standards of working people

:24:29.:24:32.

in this country in the here and now and in the future, and it will be

:24:33.:24:38.

Theresa May's determination to pursue a hard Brexit, taking us out

:24:39.:24:42.

of the single market and Customs union. Ed Miliband talked about

:24:43.:24:48.

predators in his first speech, I think he was leader of Labour at the

:24:49.:24:58.

party conference, Theresa May has stopped about tax dodgers,

:24:59.:25:01.

international companies and directors not paying their fair

:25:02.:25:06.

share or doing things wrong way, she divided people into that as well,

:25:07.:25:10.

Jeremy Corbyn is just doing the same, there's nothing unusual about

:25:11.:25:16.

it. It is perfectly legitimate to raise this issue but I've always

:25:17.:25:20.

thought the way to help working people is cut their taxes, and we

:25:21.:25:25.

have done that by ?1000 per year, and at the same time the wealthier

:25:26.:25:34.

are paying more than ever. We were the ones to do that first of all,

:25:35.:25:39.

can we remember that? We found the money to do it! Let me put this to

:25:40.:25:46.

you, it's an example I think of what they were talking about, in the

:25:47.:25:54.

financial year for Google ending June 2016 we have a turnover in

:25:55.:26:01.

Britain of $8 billion, how much corporation tax to be paid? Google

:26:02.:26:06.

are paying more now than they used to, I don't know the exact figure. I

:26:07.:26:14.

will tell you, they paid 25 million on turnover of 8 billion. That

:26:15.:26:22.

cannot be right, can it? No, I completely agree. George Osborne

:26:23.:26:25.

introduced reforms of the rules to deal with the so-called double Irish

:26:26.:26:30.

question. The main problem we have is large multinational companies are

:26:31.:26:34.

moving money around the world, taking tax in other countries... We

:26:35.:26:40.

know what they are doing, we are trying to work out why you haven't

:26:41.:26:46.

stopped them. Six years of Conservative government and they are

:26:47.:26:52.

still paying a marginal rate of tax. A company that has made ?8 billion

:26:53.:26:59.

out of this country in one year pays 25 million in tax. That's why people

:27:00.:27:05.

are angry, is it not? Yes, but we are tapping the double Irish

:27:06.:27:10.

question, we have raised billions from tax avoidance, just in this

:27:11.:27:17.

last Budget we announced a further ?800 million from tax avoidance, we

:27:18.:27:21.

are closing down loopholes, going after tax evaders with higher fines,

:27:22.:27:28.

we are more aggressively taxing them, and if you go back to what

:27:29.:27:32.

Theresa May said on the steps of Downing Street that's something she

:27:33.:27:42.

wants to address further. You are writing the Ukip manifesto, what are

:27:43.:27:49.

you going to say about these things? About inequality? About some of

:27:50.:27:53.

these companies who seem to pay very small amounts of corporation tax.

:27:54.:28:00.

Absolutely, and we had in our 2015 manifesto ways to cut down on tax

:28:01.:28:05.

avoidance, which the Tories picked up and run with. We believe

:28:06.:28:10.

fundamentally taxpayers should be allowed to keep as much of their own

:28:11.:28:14.

money in their own pockets as possible so we are looking to

:28:15.:28:17.

smaller government is well and I think it's one of the things that's

:28:18.:28:22.

interesting, that Theresa May's government is a party of big

:28:23.:28:26.

government, talking about more politics and not less, and we oppose

:28:27.:28:32.

that as well. Must uncontrolled immigration has driven down wages,

:28:33.:28:35.

by controlling immigration you get a natural rise in wages. There's

:28:36.:28:42.

another dimension to this, and it is the truth of the matter that you

:28:43.:28:47.

will only tackle tax evasion by cooperating with other people and

:28:48.:28:52.

other parts of the world. The EU was one of the most significant trading

:28:53.:28:55.

blocs within that globalised economy. I think words have to be

:28:56.:29:03.

carefully used. You are not accusing Google of evasion? That was the word

:29:04.:29:10.

you used. Sorry, avoidance, and thank you for giving me the

:29:11.:29:14.

opportunity to put that correct, but corporate tax avoidance, closing

:29:15.:29:18.

down the loopholes can only be done by working with other countries and

:29:19.:29:28.

the EU is an important... If the thrust of your politics is being

:29:29.:29:36.

driven by an inward looking and isolationist policy, then in fact

:29:37.:29:43.

that becomes more and more... You are spinning everything. Challenge

:29:44.:29:48.

you on the EU, we have made tremendous progress through the G7

:29:49.:29:54.

at looking at tax avoidance, I don't think the EU has that big a role to

:29:55.:29:59.

play on tax avoidance. It helps to facilitate it, companies can place

:30:00.:30:05.

their headquarters in countries with the lowest tax regimes, we would

:30:06.:30:09.

stop that. What would the Lib Dems do about inequality? We would tackle

:30:10.:30:16.

it by allowing working people to keep more money... But a lot of that

:30:17.:30:21.

has been done already. There are still a lot more to do and you use

:30:22.:30:26.

the machinery of government to give people the tools to pull themselves

:30:27.:30:31.

up. We invest in education, in the pupil premium, which puts extra

:30:32.:30:35.

money directly into children who come from the poorer families. That

:30:36.:30:39.

way you enable them to make the most of the talents they have got and to

:30:40.:30:44.

pull themselves out of poverty. Are you up for Progressive Alliance? If

:30:45.:30:50.

there are progressives around with whom you can make alliance then I am

:30:51.:30:57.

up with it. Jeremy Corbyn? I don't think so because any Alliance has

:30:58.:31:02.

got to be a coherent one and no alliance with Jeremy Corbyn will be

:31:03.:31:07.

coherent. As for the nationalists they are neither progressive nor

:31:08.:31:10.

particularly keen on making alliances with other people.

:31:11.:31:20.

Mischief from them but not from you? Heaven forfend!

:31:21.:31:27.

So what, I hear you cry, about all the bills that

:31:28.:31:30.

are going through Parliament at the moment?

:31:31.:31:31.

What about the Small and Medium Sized Co-operative

:31:32.:31:33.

Development Bill, or the Short and Holiday-Let Accommodation

:31:34.:31:35.

(Notification of Local Authorities) Bill?

:31:36.:31:36.

Well, let me tell you all about the wash-up period.

:31:37.:31:39.

The wash-up is the period immediately before an election,

:31:40.:31:42.

when the Government works out which bills

:31:43.:31:43.

it can rush through, and which it has to

:31:44.:31:46.

drop, before Parliament dissolves at the start of May.

:31:47.:31:48.

Turning bills into law is normally a long, drawn-out process that

:31:49.:31:50.

can take months, but during the wash-up, the Government

:31:51.:31:53.

speeds up the process by watering bills down to take the controversial

:31:54.:31:56.

bits out and thrashes out compromises with the opposition

:31:57.:32:00.

parties so the bills can get through.

:32:01.:32:03.

Anything left over has to wait until a new government is formed.

:32:04.:32:12.

Let's talk now to our reporter Emma Vardy.

:32:13.:32:17.

Emma, what is getting through and what is not? Hundreds of bills are

:32:18.:32:23.

going through Parliament at the moment, some of them covering

:32:24.:32:29.

mainstream issues like prisons and transport, and others that deal with

:32:30.:32:34.

things like Habitat regulations. There are six major ones that are

:32:35.:32:37.

going back and forth between the Houses. The higher education and

:32:38.:32:42.

research bill is one of the big ones, and this will only get onto

:32:43.:32:48.

the stack Briton statute but if their concession. May is already

:32:49.:32:56.

having -- get onto the statute book if there are concessions. The

:32:57.:33:05.

Digital economy Bill deals with ticket touting and the level of the

:33:06.:33:10.

BBC licence fee and that is another one at ping-pong stage that can get

:33:11.:33:13.

through if there are concessions. The other bills that haven't reached

:33:14.:33:18.

ping-pong yet - the criminal finances Bill is a major one,

:33:19.:33:23.

dealing with corruption and terrorism financing, which goes to

:33:24.:33:26.

the Lords next week and can get through the parties agree. For

:33:27.:33:30.

others, it looks like the end of the road. The prisons and courts Bill

:33:31.:33:35.

and local Government Finance bill are two which looked like they will

:33:36.:33:38.

bite the dust and will have to be restarted in the next Parliament.

:33:39.:33:42.

The Tories believe they will win this election and win big, otherwise

:33:43.:33:47.

they would not have called it. There may be right or wrong, but that is

:33:48.:33:51.

what they think, so why do they need to rush this through if they are

:33:52.:33:57.

confident they will come back? Some things are time critical, like

:33:58.:34:01.

getting permission for university fees to rise in time for September,

:34:02.:34:07.

but also important is that if bills are fully formed, if they have to go

:34:08.:34:10.

through the process of being restarted in the next Parliament,

:34:11.:34:14.

they will also be fighting for space with Brexit legislation.

:34:15.:34:19.

Negotiations will go one largely behind the scenes, over four days

:34:20.:34:22.

next week, and there will be pressure for the Government to get

:34:23.:34:26.

things through. Also, the opposition don't want to be seen to be standing

:34:27.:34:29.

in the way of useful legislation because of a point of detail, so we

:34:30.:34:33.

have this wash-up period next week, and we will watch and see what

:34:34.:34:38.

happens. Thank you very much about. The wash-up period part of the way

:34:39.:34:41.

British politicians do things. We're joined now by Catherine Haddon

:34:42.:34:42.

from the Institute of Government. Welcome to the programme. Is this a

:34:43.:34:51.

period where there is cooperation between the parties to get this

:34:52.:34:55.

done? That can be, but the big division is between the Commons and

:34:56.:34:59.

Lords, because the House of Lords is where the opposition really sets,

:35:00.:35:03.

because there is a majority in the Commons. It is more about being

:35:04.:35:08.

between the chambers. It is not about differences of view and things

:35:09.:35:12.

like that, there is a lot of important scrutiny and amendments go

:35:13.:35:17.

on in these kinds of stages. Governments, when they put

:35:18.:35:21.

legislation through, will put amendments on things because they

:35:22.:35:24.

realise they don't quite work. The danger of doing it too quickly is

:35:25.:35:27.

that you end up with a bad bill, which you want to avoid. The

:35:28.:35:31.

opposition has more power than normal, and so too will the Lords.

:35:32.:35:38.

In 1983, we were awaiting the BT privatisation bill and Labour

:35:39.:35:42.

refused to put it through in the rush before the 1983 election, so it

:35:43.:35:47.

had to wait. Margaret Thatcher's return brought the bill back. There

:35:48.:35:51.

is an opportunity with their higher education and research funding bill,

:35:52.:35:56.

where we may see opposition from the Lords, because there has been

:35:57.:35:59.

criticism of it. There were stories in the press this morning that

:36:00.:36:04.

Theresa May, who has argued against taking student numbers out of the

:36:05.:36:08.

migrant figures, may now concede that to get the bill through. And

:36:09.:36:12.

there are a lot of interesting questions, not just how much

:36:13.:36:15.

legislation will be on the box for the next Parliament and whether or

:36:16.:36:19.

not they want to carry bills through, but also, what does Theresa

:36:20.:36:23.

May want to change? Many of these bills have their origins in the last

:36:24.:36:26.

Conservative manifesto, so this could be your opportunity to change

:36:27.:36:31.

policy on some issues, should she be returned with the majority she

:36:32.:36:36.

hopes. That is one of the reason she is giving for the election, that if

:36:37.:36:41.

she puts a number of things into the manifesto, then under the Salisbury

:36:42.:36:46.

role, I think, the Lords can delay and argue, but they cannot stop

:36:47.:36:51.

something on which a Government has been elected. Although some, the Lib

:36:52.:36:59.

Dems, don't recognise that. They rejected as that? In 2005. I don't

:37:00.:37:04.

know whether Tim Farron will respect it. It is a long-standing tradition

:37:05.:37:08.

about things that are renowned manifesto. They are not necessarily

:37:09.:37:12.

specified in a manifesto with detail, so there is scope

:37:13.:37:18.

opposition, to the but it means that key areas that have been put through

:37:19.:37:21.

as manifesto policies, the Lords are not supposed to recommend and

:37:22.:37:26.

ultimately stop them, but they can change them significantly if they

:37:27.:37:29.

argue the case. I guess we will wait for the Tory manifesto, but we don't

:37:30.:37:37.

know yet if Mrs May has got any major legislative programme in mind

:37:38.:37:41.

in addition to Brexit, or whether Brexit is going to suck up all the

:37:42.:37:48.

oxygen. A lot of her speech was about domestic policy, and there

:37:49.:37:51.

were a number of areas where we have seen progress, but that will now

:37:52.:37:56.

have to stall. We were expecting more consultations, more from the

:37:57.:37:59.

Government on industrial strategy, social mobility, and of course,

:38:00.:38:03.

there was going to be a White Paper on grammar schools in June. These

:38:04.:38:08.

could change. Then there are other things that might change as well. We

:38:09.:38:12.

saw with the budget, the Finance Bill is one of the things that

:38:13.:38:15.

currently needs to be sorted out and go through wash-up. Because that is

:38:16.:38:20.

tax and revenue, so they have to do that. Yes, and they will probably

:38:21.:38:25.

reduce it to the bare minimum. They may want to have a new budget under

:38:26.:38:28.

the next Government because they may want to reintroduce the thorny issue

:38:29.:38:34.

of national insurance. The Treasury have this big hole they want to

:38:35.:38:37.

fill, so the manifesto could change the legislation a lot. Parliament

:38:38.:38:45.

goes down, I think, at midnight on the 2nd of May. Yes, dissolution. It

:38:46.:38:58.

has been announced this morning that it will be, yes, at the end of the

:38:59.:39:05.

2nd of May, so that will also be the last time that MPs and their staff

:39:06.:39:09.

get to access computer... And they are not MPs any more. No, just

:39:10.:39:14.

candidates, so they won't have access to resources. Civil servants

:39:15.:39:21.

have written to MPs today to say that the normal process for

:39:22.:39:25.

enquiries will be happening. As far as they are concerned, the purdah

:39:26.:39:28.

has already started. The election will be on the 8th of June, and then

:39:29.:39:33.

a couple of weeks later, whoever wins has formed a Government and

:39:34.:39:38.

there is the Queen's speech. We were expecting that anyway in May. There

:39:39.:39:48.

is not as much legislation going on because of that. You might have to

:39:49.:39:52.

account for the fact that she may have a reshuffle. She has a

:39:53.:39:56.

reshuffle, she might want to change departments round, so that will also

:39:57.:40:00.

affect smaller legislation going through as well, because different

:40:01.:40:04.

ministers may have different priorities in mind. Fascinating. A

:40:05.:40:05.

very much. -- thank you very much. Our guest of the day

:40:06.:40:12.

is Suzanne Evans of Ukip. Now, at every election, we are used

:40:13.:40:15.

to hearing that her party is on the verge of a parliamentary

:40:16.:40:17.

breakthrough - it's The party has seen some success,

:40:18.:40:20.

currently holding five seats in the Welsh Assembly,

:40:21.:40:24.

but Ukip has also faced an array of problems,

:40:25.:40:27.

mostly self-inflicted. After last year's referendum, MEP

:40:28.:40:29.

Diane James was elected as leader, but she stood down after only 18

:40:30.:40:34.

days, saying she didn't Eventually, she resigned

:40:35.:40:37.

from the party altogether. Cue another leadership race

:40:38.:40:45.

and another resignation. This time, frontrunner Steven Woolfe

:40:46.:40:48.

left the party after he was knocked out during an altercation

:40:49.:40:50.

with a fellow Ukip MEP. MEP Paul Nuttal was eventually

:40:51.:40:56.

elected as Ukip supremo but was then caught out about achievements

:40:57.:41:01.

on his CV and had to apologise after falsely claiming to have lost

:41:02.:41:04.

friends at the Hillsborough disaster, all of which helped

:41:05.:41:09.

scupper his campaign He was described as weak

:41:10.:41:11.

by the party's millionaire donor, Arron Banks, before Banks

:41:12.:41:18.

was subsequently elbowed out during He vowed to set up Ukip 2.0

:41:19.:41:22.

and destroy the party. And the trouble kept

:41:23.:41:28.

coming - their only MP, resigned from the party to sit

:41:29.:41:32.

as an independent, though many And this month, former

:41:33.:41:37.

Tory Mark Reckless, who is now a Welsh Assembly member,

:41:38.:41:45.

resigned from Ukip to sit as an independent and vote

:41:46.:41:48.

with the Conservative group What a mess! Thank you for reminding

:41:49.:42:02.

me of all that. I would have completely forgotten if it wasn't

:42:03.:42:06.

for you! It is a never-ending nightmare. It has not been our

:42:07.:42:10.

moment of glory, let's be honest, but I think we are in a situation

:42:11.:42:14.

where Article 50 has been triggered and there is no doubt that getting

:42:15.:42:20.

out of the EU was Ukip's reason for being, our primary goal. Inevitably,

:42:21.:42:24.

there will be reflection and reconsideration, when it looks like

:42:25.:42:28.

someone else has picked up the ball and run away with it. I would say to

:42:29.:42:33.

people that we're not yet. People who are saying that Ukip is finished

:42:34.:42:37.

and our job is done, I would say no. Until the fat lady sings on Brexit,

:42:38.:42:40.

if you like, we are still in and have to get out. There is still this

:42:41.:42:44.

debate about hard or soft Brexit. I would say there is just Brexit.

:42:45.:42:49.

People like you and other UK people always tell me in these interviews

:42:50.:42:53.

that your job is to hold the Government's fee to the fire over

:42:54.:42:58.

Brexit. It is. When you have seen that litany of woes I have gone

:42:59.:43:02.

through, you have done more to set yourself a light. In some senses, I

:43:03.:43:09.

can only agree, and we have shot ourselves in the foot in some

:43:10.:43:11.

senses. That doesn't mean that we don't have a job to do and we must

:43:12.:43:17.

carry on. Mrs May is going to go to the country, and she will repeat her

:43:18.:43:24.

Brexit strategy and the broad outlines of what she aims to achieve

:43:25.:43:29.

in the negotiations, and if she wins, she will have a mandate to

:43:30.:43:32.

carry that out, whether you liked all the details or not. She has the

:43:33.:43:39.

mandate, if she wins, to do it. Even your role of holding their feet to

:43:40.:43:43.

the fire seems to have been scuppered by this election. I

:43:44.:43:47.

disagree. If Theresa May comes back with a massive Tory majority, my

:43:48.:43:54.

concern is that when you have huge majorities, without serious

:43:55.:43:57.

opposition, a dictator meant Halladay comes in, and I think there

:43:58.:44:01.

is a touch of that in Mrs May. We hear she will not take part in the

:44:02.:44:06.

TV debates. It is like, I will do what I like. She is a dictator? No.

:44:07.:44:15.

You said a touch of a dictator. Like Tony Blair in 1997, massive

:44:16.:44:20.

majority, Tory Party depleted, decisions made without any

:44:21.:44:23.

opposition which scuppered and left a terrible legacy of the people for

:44:24.:44:27.

successive generations. I am not terribly keen on majority

:44:28.:44:30.

governments for precisely that reason. For the sake of argument,

:44:31.:44:40.

let's accept, briefly, the elected dictatorship might argue, if you are

:44:41.:44:43.

to have any role in putting some constraints on this self-described

:44:44.:44:49.

elected dictatorship, you would need more than one or two MPs, otherwise

:44:50.:44:51.

she would be irrelevant. If you are not in parliament, you

:44:52.:45:05.

cannot hold the Government to account. One of the things we will

:45:06.:45:10.

be looking out in our 2017 manifesto is the policies, the Tory handbook

:45:11.:45:16.

as some people are calling it, that the Conservative Party has gone

:45:17.:45:21.

with. So you are even more irrelevant if they have nicked your

:45:22.:45:28.

policies. Even your non-EU policies are being pinched by them. I would

:45:29.:45:35.

say that makes us very relevant. Why vote for the monkey if you can have

:45:36.:45:41.

the organ grinder. Because you don't know if the organ grinder will play

:45:42.:45:45.

the tune they said they would play. Theresa May will have the mandate to

:45:46.:45:50.

do so if she wins and in the sense it doesn't matter what you say any

:45:51.:45:54.

more because if the Government wins with a big majority, if there is a

:45:55.:46:00.

small win all sorts of things will happen, but she then has a mandate

:46:01.:46:04.

and what you think is surely irrelevant. Let's see what the Tory

:46:05.:46:10.

manifesto says. Theresa May failed to control immigration when she was

:46:11.:46:14.

Home Secretary, never came anywhere near the tens of thousands, just

:46:15.:46:19.

went up and up. She says she wants to release us from the European

:46:20.:46:23.

Courts of Justice, does that mean we will pull out of the European arrest

:46:24.:46:29.

warrant? I'd like to see the details. The failure of the

:46:30.:46:33.

Government to hit its immigration figures has been apparent for six

:46:34.:46:37.

years, the issue of the European arrest warrant has been around for

:46:38.:46:42.

at least six more years as well. And yet you have made all of these

:46:43.:46:48.

points and you still have no MPs. Let's wait and see. We are always

:46:49.:46:54.

waiting and seeing, and nothing happens. When you get an they leave,

:46:55.:47:02.

defect or decide not to stand again. Maybe Douglas was clearly thinking

:47:03.:47:07.

about that anyway, I would suggest, but just because we don't have any

:47:08.:47:12.

MPs it won't stop us from trying. I understand that and parties all over

:47:13.:47:19.

the world have to try. Paul Nuttall talked about rebranding the party,

:47:20.:47:27.

what does that mean? I don't know. A lot of people talk about

:47:28.:47:32.

rebranding... The content of the manifesto should surely reflect the

:47:33.:47:37.

rebranding. I think he was talking about the logo, that sort of thing.

:47:38.:47:43.

Getting rid of the union flag? Well, the pound sign. I like the yellow,

:47:44.:47:56.

not the purple. Ukip began as something of a threat to the Tories

:47:57.:48:01.

in the south and I think that was one of the reasons Mr Cameron moved

:48:02.:48:08.

to a referendum. It then started to think we could be even more of a

:48:09.:48:13.

threat to Labour in the north, without ceasing to be a threat in

:48:14.:48:17.

the south. But when you look at the South now and you look at Mrs May's

:48:18.:48:22.

position and the fact the country did vote for Brexit and she's taking

:48:23.:48:29.

a line that you by and large approve of... That one issue, yes.

:48:30.:48:36.

Disaffected voters are just as likely to go back to Tories in the

:48:37.:48:41.

south and you are not really getting the votes in the north. I remember

:48:42.:48:45.

the first ever interview I did for daily politics, I said, I think our

:48:46.:48:53.

future lies in the Labour heartlands. I think we need to focus

:48:54.:48:58.

on both, and Ukip's manifesto will once again look to be both, it will

:48:59.:49:03.

be that common sense a party that appeals to both those on the left

:49:04.:49:07.

and right because it is common sense because its policies will benefit

:49:08.:49:11.

everyone in the country. You said there was a touch of the dictator

:49:12.:49:15.

about Mrs May but you were the one last November that wanted judges to

:49:16.:49:21.

be sacked. No, I have been misquoted on this. I was talking about the

:49:22.:49:26.

fact our judiciary is pretty much completely unaccountable and I think

:49:27.:49:30.

there should be more scrutiny when it comes to judicial appointments

:49:31.:49:34.

for instance. We were talking about the elites and they replicate

:49:35.:49:38.

themselves and there is nowhere that is more evident than in the

:49:39.:49:43.

judiciary. This so sacking judges won't be in the manifesto? I can

:49:44.:49:50.

guarantee that! You heard it here first.

:49:51.:49:52.

It's not just Labour who are kick-starting

:49:53.:49:53.

The Green Party - of England and Wales, we should say -

:49:54.:49:58.

are launching their campaign this afternoon in Bristol.

:49:59.:49:59.

We're joined from there by the party's co-leader, Caroline Lucas.

:50:00.:50:04.

There she is with that iconic bridge behind her. You must have heard or

:50:05.:50:13.

seen bits of what Jeremy Corbyn was saying this morning. Was there

:50:14.:50:18.

anything you disagreed with? I have been on a train for most of the

:50:19.:50:22.

morning with plenty of delays so if you wouldn't mind refreshing my

:50:23.:50:27.

memory about what he did say... He talked about wealth extractors and

:50:28.:50:32.

cosy cartels, of people making the rules up to help themselves, he

:50:33.:50:38.

talked about, well Mr McDonnell talked about erasing taxes... I

:50:39.:50:48.

wondered if you disagreed with any of it? The general thrust? Certainly

:50:49.:50:55.

I agree we should be moving to a much fairer society, in Britain we

:50:56.:51:02.

have most of the -- one of the most unequal societies in the whole of

:51:03.:51:05.

Europe so we want to make sure people on higher incomes will be

:51:06.:51:09.

paying more but the Green Party not only has that analysis and shared

:51:10.:51:14.

concern about inequality and a real commitment to addressing inequality,

:51:15.:51:17.

but also we have that consistent position when it comes to Brexit. We

:51:18.:51:24.

want to avoid the hardest type of Brexit, which Mrs May is pursuing,

:51:25.:51:32.

for which we say she has no mandate. Thirdly, we want to put climate and

:51:33.:51:35.

environmental protection back at the top of the agenda. It's amazing how

:51:36.:51:42.

short people's memories are, last year was the hottest year on record

:51:43.:51:45.

and people seem to have forgotten that now so we will be talking about

:51:46.:51:50.

the importance of investing in green jobs. In Bristol we are currently in

:51:51.:51:56.

second place and our candidate was an MEP, a very experienced

:51:57.:52:03.

politician, and last time round we had an increased to 27% almost

:52:04.:52:07.

unprecedented so we have a really good chance of winning our first MP

:52:08.:52:12.

here in Bristol West. You reached out to Labour and the Lib Dems with

:52:13.:52:16.

talk of a Progressive Alliance but they have both rejected your offer,

:52:17.:52:24.

are you disappointed by that? I am deeply disappointed and people up

:52:25.:52:26.

and down the country are disappointed because it is yet more

:52:27.:52:31.

of the same type of politics, putting their own interests above

:52:32.:52:35.

those of the country. We faced a defining general election, which

:52:36.:52:38.

will make key decisions about the kind of country we will be. A quick

:52:39.:52:44.

look at the polls suggest the kind of policies Mrs May is pursuing will

:52:45.:52:48.

ensure she comes back with a majority of up to 100, I don't think

:52:49.:52:52.

that represents what people want in this country. It's the result of a

:52:53.:52:59.

skewed electoral system. We don't know the result yet! Right now this

:53:00.:53:06.

Government is governing on the basis of less than 24% of the eligible

:53:07.:53:12.

vote, so we need to reach out to other parties to see if we can avoid

:53:13.:53:19.

the most extreme Tory policies. You set an interesting precedent in the

:53:20.:53:24.

Richmond by-election, famously won by the Lib Dems, because you stood

:53:25.:53:28.

down and that's will have contributed to the Lib Dem victory

:53:29.:53:33.

there. You have got to concentrate your resources in the areas which

:53:34.:53:38.

you are now in Bristol, will you be looking at seats where even though

:53:39.:53:44.

they have rejected your progressive alliance, will you be looking at

:53:45.:53:49.

seats where if you don't stand there and other progressive party will

:53:50.:53:59.

have a chance? You won't see people standing down across the country,

:54:00.:54:03.

but what I think is exciting is the fact that up and down the country

:54:04.:54:08.

there is such a desire to try to beat this scandalously undemocratic

:54:09.:54:13.

electoral system and work together to that end. So many times you have

:54:14.:54:18.

parties from the centre and centre left fighting each other and what

:54:19.:54:22.

happens time and again is the Tories say all through the middle. Surely

:54:23.:54:26.

now when there is so much at stake when it comes to public services and

:54:27.:54:30.

Brexit, surely now those other parties should be putting aside

:54:31.:54:35.

tribal politics. I understand the logic. There are five Conservative

:54:36.:54:41.

seats which the Lib Dems would have won if Green voters had backed them

:54:42.:54:46.

in the 2015 election but it has to be a two Way Street. Are you having

:54:47.:54:55.

any discussions with Tim Farron or Liberal Democrats about that sort of

:54:56.:55:01.

thing? There are discussions going on at all levels. Can I draw your

:55:02.:55:05.

attention to the Isle of Wight, another of our target seats which is

:55:06.:55:10.

currently held by Conservative, Ukip in second place, but the Greens are

:55:11.:55:15.

inferred. We have a fantastic candidate on the Isle of Wight who

:55:16.:55:19.

is really admired and respected, she has a good chance. There is a real

:55:20.:55:27.

groundswell of people who want to change this. Is there a real

:55:28.:55:34.

possibility that in some of the seats with the Lib Dems, where the

:55:35.:55:38.

Lib Dems could win, if you weren't there, is that a discussion we

:55:39.:55:44.

should be looking out for in the next couple of weeks? Is it really a

:55:45.:55:51.

runner? I think so because there is such a ground of popular opinion for

:55:52.:55:57.

it. My e-mail inbox is overflowing with people begging for parties to

:55:58.:56:01.

get together and have grown-up politics. You have organisations

:56:02.:56:06.

like Compass, people active in this space saying how do we have a

:56:07.:56:10.

politics which delivers what the majority of people in this country

:56:11.:56:16.

want. The undemocratic electoral system, which gives power to the

:56:17.:56:21.

Government on 24% of the electoral vote, that is stymieing what the

:56:22.:56:25.

majority of people want which is decent public services, investment

:56:26.:56:30.

in jobs and the environment. Except when they had a chance to vote for a

:56:31.:56:34.

change of electoral system, they didn't change it. But if you have a

:56:35.:56:41.

choice to change it to something not much better... That is your view. If

:56:42.:56:48.

with discussions with Labour or the Lib Dems, if it is possible to

:56:49.:56:52.

identify five seats where you step back they could do better and maybe

:56:53.:56:58.

win or five seats where if they step back you would do better, you are up

:56:59.:57:05.

for that? Completely up for that and stepping back can take many forms,

:57:06.:57:09.

it can be as simple as where you decide to put resources, right

:57:10.:57:18.

through to one could even perhaps imagine an open primary, an open

:57:19.:57:21.

democratic decision about who is best placed to fight an extreme

:57:22.:57:26.

Tory. But the key thing to say is this is locally driven and has to

:57:27.:57:31.

come from what the local constituents want. Those discussions

:57:32.:57:36.

are being had right now. Caroline Lucas, thank you for joining us with

:57:37.:57:41.

such a beautiful backdrop, it's been a pleasure. Come and join us! If

:57:42.:57:58.

only I had the time. Do you agree? We believe in a system of

:57:59.:58:01.

proportional representation that does make votes matter and makes

:58:02.:58:09.

votes fair. All right, we have to leave it there, as this era of good

:58:10.:58:11.

feelings break-out. There's just time before we go

:58:12.:58:13.

to find out the answer to our quiz. The question was: Which leader's

:58:14.:58:16.

child has been pictured playing So, Suzanne, what's

:58:17.:58:18.

the correct answer? Thanks to Suzanne Evans

:58:19.:58:39.

and all my guests. I'll be back this evening

:58:40.:58:51.

at 11:45 on BBC One, where you'll be joining me again,

:58:52.:58:53.

Suzanne, along with Miranda Green, As a reality TV star, Donald Trump

:58:54.:58:56.

may have been ignorable. But he is now unignorable,

:58:57.:59:16.

he comes to us 24/7. But what will

:59:17.:59:19.

his presidency mean for the world?

:59:20.:59:24.

Andrew Neil is joined by UKIP's deputy chair Suzanne Evans for the whole show. They look at what legislation the government is going to prioritise in the so-called 'wash up' and at UKIP's prospects in the coming general election. Plus they get reaction from the EU on how the election will affect the Brexit negotiations.