Browse content similar to 10/05/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon folks - welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:39. | :00:40. | |
Labour promises a massive increase in education spending in England | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
and says it will raise corporation tax by over a third | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
The Conservatives say the plans are "nonsensical". | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
The Green Party says it will no longer consider what it calls | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
"progressive alliances", accusing Labour and the Lib Dems of | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
failing to consider electoral pacts between broadly left-wing parties. | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
Green Party leader, Caroline Lucas, joins us live. | :01:01. | :01:09. | |
We've brought the Moodbox to Chester to ask people | :01:10. | :01:11. | |
whether they think Ukip have had their moment in the sun. | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
And, as part of our series on smaller parties | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
today, we speak to the leader of the Women's Equality Party. | :01:20. | :01:27. | |
And with us for the duration, the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall. | :01:28. | :01:38. | |
Now in the last hour, the Crown Prosecution Service has | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
announced that no criminal charges are to be brought over | :01:43. | :01:47. | |
14 police inquiries into Conservative Party election | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
spending in the 2015 general election. | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
One file from Kent Police remains under consideration, | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
although we won't hear today whether charges will be brought | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
Let's talk to our home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds. | :01:58. | :02:06. | |
What has happened here? Well, this has been running for a long time. It | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
followed an investigation by Channel 4 News into the way in which parties | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
were finding their candidates' campaigns in various constituencies. | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
The latest is that the police, in 14 different parts of England, have | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
been looking into, have passed on files to the Crown Prosecution | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
Service to see whether they would be charges, and today, the CPS has said | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
that in all of those 14 cases, there will be no charges. Why? Well, it is | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
down to the law which effectively says this, it says, it is an offence | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
to knowingly make a false tax oration, and in order to bring | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
charge, it must be proved that a suspect did know that they were | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
acting dishonestly in declaring election expenses. And clearly, the | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
CPS has decided that that is not the case in all of these situations | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
around the country. Largely, we're talking about the Conservatives' | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
battle buses, travelling around the country, putting activists into | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
various places. They always said it was national spending and it did not | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
reach their national spending limits, and the CPS is clearly | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
saying, there is nothing criminal here. That will come as a relief to | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the Conservatives, because this was hanging over them, but there is | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
still one outstanding case in Kent - do we know when we might hear about | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
that? I think shortly, Andrew, within the next week or so. But the | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
cut-off date for candidates to take part in the general election is | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
tomorrow. So, if you want to pull out, or if you want to come into the | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
race, you have to say by tomorrow, and we are not going to hear about | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
this Kent case until next week. We understand it is all about the South | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Thanet seat under way in which party resources were put into that seat, | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
whether or not it was national or local spending. But it does mean | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
that that will have to be left hanging, unless the constructs want | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
to choose another candidate in the next 24 hours, otherwise, they will | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
have to continue with the team they currently have in South Thanet. But | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
the Conservatives are very pleased with today's announcement, they say | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
that the CPS has confirmed what we knew all along, that the | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
Conservative candidates did nothing wrong, these were politically | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
motivated and unfounded complaints, this is from Patrick McLoughlin, the | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
chair of the party, which have wasted police time. He goes on to | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
say, a number of malicious claims continue to be spread on the | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
internet. He says, people should be aware that making false claims about | :04:45. | :04:52. | |
candidates is an electoral offence. So, a hard-hitting response from the | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
Conservatives. Thanks for bringing us up to date. | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
Now, it's another busy day in the election campaign. | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
For the latest, I'm joined from College Green by Katy Balls | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
from The Spectator, and Stephen Bush from The New Statesman. | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
Let's kick off with Theresa May, hosting the Nato general secretary, | :05:11. | :05:21. | |
Jens Stoltenberg. Oh, no, we have Jeremy Corbyn instead. Let's remove | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
that for a moment... Anyway, they were together at No 10, it was not | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
just a courtesy call, Jens Stoltenberg would like some | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
commitment from Theresa May in terms of more troops in Afghanistan. What | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
would that do to this election campaign? Well, one would assume it | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
would ring the issue of our involvement in Afghanistan in to the | :05:48. | :05:53. | |
picture. Perhaps it would help Labour, but also it would be | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
possibly hurting them on security issues. So it is hard to see who | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
would benefit from this as an election issue. In terms of Labour, | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
Katy Balls, what do you think about this call from Nato? He said he | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
would be happy to agree to a request like that, and that kind of makes | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
sense, it fits with his own non-interventionist approach. And I | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
think a lot of the public might agree with it. There is a very | :06:24. | :06:25. | |
lukewarm reaction to sending more troops to Afghanistan. But because | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
Theresa May wants Britain to be outward-looking post-Brexit, I also | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
think she will want to keep these Nato commitments. What about our | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
actual commitments already, in terms of spending? We are supposedly | :06:42. | :06:47. | |
living up to the Nato commitment of spending 2%, but actually, in the | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
papers this morning, there is a letter saying that Theresa May's | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
boasts of spending that are actually an accounting deception, what do you | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
make of that? We know that there is a lot of creative accountancy about | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
how you get to that defence targets. 2% we expect that to be a subplot of | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
the election. But again, Labour does not want this election to be about | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
national security. And Katy Balls, will it come an issue, do you think, | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
or will this just pass by? I think we saw last week kind of David Davis | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
and Philip Hammond stood in front of a poster of a bomb, and said, Jeremy | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
Corbyn would not give bombs to the army, they're quite happy on | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
defence. And I think Labour are unhappy on defence. The Shadow | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
Defence Secretary has suggested about giving more money to the army, | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
but I think a lot of people still would not be happy voting for Jeremy | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Corbyn, given about his comments about whether or not he would kill | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
the leader of Isis. What about Europe, could cook yesterday, Jeremy | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Corbyn seemed to that the issue of Brexit was saddled, and then would | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
not quite answer the question about whether if he was prone minister, he | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
would actually take Britain out of the EU? What did you make of that? | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
It seemed very strange, partly because Jeremy Corbyn is a lifelong | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
Eurosceptic, other than about -- other than about the six months of | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
the referendum. The fact that he stumbled on that is a bit of a | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
mystery. And Katy Balls, do you think it was just a stumble or was | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
there more to it than that? I think it's just typical of Labour at the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
moment, their whole Brexit strategy seems to be to say one thing, the | :08:38. | :08:44. | |
issue of Brexit is settled, which will help with the Labour Brexit | :08:45. | :08:49. | |
voters, and then he goes on to refuse to say whether Britain is | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
actually going to leave the EU. Last night, of course, we had a | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
hard-hitting interview with Theresa May and her husband on the one show. | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
Let's take a quick look... How hard is it to win a negotiation with your | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
wife? That's a good question. There is give and take in every marriage. | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
I get to decide when I take the bins out, not IF I take the bins out! | :09:15. | :09:21. | |
There is boys' jobs and girls' jobs. I do the traditional boy jobs, by | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
and large. If you are the kind of man who expects his tea to be on the | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
table six o'clock every evening, you could be disappointed. Do you make | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
the team? From time to time. Theresa is a very good cook indeed, | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
actually. Yes, at home, we lived in the flat at Downing Street but we | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
like to get home at weekends, and that's where most of my cookery | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
books are. How do you think that interview went in terms of Tory HQ? | :09:52. | :10:02. | |
It was quite awkward to watch. But at the same time, I think the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
Conservatives working to show Theresa May's more personal side, | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
softer side. Which it probably did achieve, even though there were | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
those awkward moments. But do you think overall it was positive for | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
them, Stephen Bush? Yeah, it would have irritated people like me, with | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
the boys jobs, girls' jobs thing, but it showed her to be a warm, Home | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
Counties woman. Paul Nuttall, would you like to appear on a show like | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
that? Not particularly, it is not really my cup of tea, to be honest | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
with you. I think there is a fine balance between your public life and | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
private life. It's horses for courses, really. I think there is a | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
danger sometimes with spouses that they can become too involved, and I | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
think Cherie Blair was a perfect example of that, I could argue maybe | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
Michelle Obama as well. So it is horses for courses, it is not for | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
me. But the public quite like to see the personal side would it worry | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
you, would you feel uncomfortable having to do that more personal | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
stuff? Not particularly. I have done a number of interviews on a more | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
personal level, I have to say that I've always been very keen to keep | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
my private life private. Again, it's horses for courses. If Theresa May | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
wants to go on shows like that and bring her husband out, that's | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
entirely up to her. So how are we going to do the boys' jobs and | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
girls' jobs on this programme? As usual, I'll do the girls' jobs! | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
Crime writer James Patterson has joined forces with which political | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
figure to write a thriller set in the White House? | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
At the end of the show, Paul Nuttall will give | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
Labour says it will hike up business taxes to fund a major increase | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
in education spending in England, if it wins the election. | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
The party's plans for what it calls a National Education Service | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
would see class sizes for five- to-seven year-olds kept below 30, | :12:13. | :12:14. | |
while almost ?5 billion extra would be pumped into the English | :12:15. | :12:17. | |
Labour says it will all be funded, primarily, by increasing | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
It will cost up to ?6 billion when you send money to Scotland and Wales | :12:25. | :12:35. | |
for education as well. Labour have today said that they'll | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
create what they call Under the plans, a future Labour | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
government would give schools a real-terms funding increase, | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
reduce class sizes to under 30 for five- to seven-year-olds, | :12:49. | :12:50. | |
and give free school meals And Labour would also restore | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
the educational maintenance allowance for college students, | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
scrap fees on courses for adult learners and put more money | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
into maintenance grants Let's take a look at Jeremy Corbyn | :13:04. | :13:04. | |
explaining the thinking behind This was Labour's Shadow Education | :13:05. | :13:15. | |
Secretary speaking earlier today. We will secure the best education | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
possible for every single child And that starts with proper | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
funding of our schools. We will reverse the ?3 billion | :13:26. | :13:28. | |
of cuts that our schools And protect per pupil funding over | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
the course of the next Parliament. And, unlike the Tories, | :13:32. | :13:38. | |
when we say real terms, To fund their proposals, | :13:39. | :13:40. | |
Labour say they would give schools in England an extra | :13:41. | :13:46. | |
?4.8 billion a year. The money would be paid | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
for by raising corporation tax. The Conservatives say Labour have | :13:50. | :13:53. | |
already spent the extra revenue from corporation tax and they've | :13:54. | :14:03. | |
described Labour's Well, this is what the Institute | :14:04. | :14:05. | |
for Fiscal Studies had to say about Labour's corporation | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
tax plans earlier. The Labour Party proposals would | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
certainly raise more than enough from corporation tax | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
to pay for these increases But, of course, an increase | :14:24. | :14:25. | |
in corporation tax It will reduce investment | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
by companies in the UK and, in the long run, | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
it won't raise as much as it might in the short run, | :14:36. | :14:37. | |
as companies change their behaviour, reduce investment or, | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
indeed, move abroad. Joining me now from Birmingham | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
is the Shadow Business Minister, Jack Dromey, and in the studio, | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
I'm joined by the former Welcome to you both. Jack Dromey, | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
first, when you look at the figures, it looks like by 2021, you're going | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
to spend over the UK an extra 6 billion for education, and you say | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
it can all be paid for by raising corporation tax by a third. But | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
haven't you already spent some of that corporation tax on other | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
things? We are determined to establish a national education | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
service. You have to find those commitments. We will fund them from | :15:25. | :15:25. | |
corporation tax. That will fund a very ambitious | :15:26. | :15:38. | |
pledge to the young people of this country, to their parents and to the | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
teachers of this country. In terms of commitments, we are now into a | :15:43. | :15:47. | |
general election period. Therefore, we are determined, Andrew, that | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
every single pledge we make, we cost so that the British people can be | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
confident that we will not only make the pledge, but unlike the Tories | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
who always break their promise, we'll deliver on the pledge. Let's | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
look at this. I thought you'd already promised to use Corporation | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
Tax to give pay rises above inflation to NHS staff? We are | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
making commitments now in relation to a general election. We've, hang | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
on, we've been looking at a whole range of commitments that might be | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
made. You will hear in relation to the NHS, the announcement we've | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
already made. If you look at the totality of what can be raised on | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
that increase of Corporation Tax over the next four years, it's | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
actually ?50 billion, in excess of that. These are your own figures. | :16:37. | :16:45. | |
Not what the... Let me clarify, is it your plan now not to pay for the | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
increase in NHS staff pay by Corporation Tax? We will honour our | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
commitment to health service staff. But will you financial it from the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
Corporation Tax revenues? The commitment made by John Ashworth is | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
a commitment that we will honour. The interesting thing about the IFS. | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
How will be finance it? The interesting thing is today the IFS | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
say our figures are sound. They raised a question mark over the | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
economic impact. Our strong view is this, we've a chronic problem in | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
this country of skills and productivity. We have to sort that. | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
I understand that's the case. I'm trying to work out how you're going | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
to pay for it. On this programme, your head of campaign, you're in an | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
election campaign, you're head of the election campaign Andrew Gwyn | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
said categorically, you'd use Corporation Tax to fund a pay rise | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
for the NHS is that still your policy or not? We stand by that | :17:48. | :17:53. | |
commitment. And the financing of it? Yes, the totality of what can be | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
raised, in terms of what we're proposing on Corporation Tax, is in | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
excess of ?50 billion. You've accumulated that. How much by 2021, | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
how much extra will Corporation Tax be bringing in under your scheme? | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
Under our scheme, it will raise in excess of ?50 billion. No, you've | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
added up all the years. I'm asking you by 2021, how much extra that | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
year, will Corporation Tax bring in? In excess of ?50 billion, Andrew. | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
That's over four years Mr Dromey. It won't bring in ?50 billion in one | :18:30. | :18:34. | |
year. Total Corporation Tax receipts at the moment are ?50 billion. You | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
cannot bring in ?50 billion extra in one year. Can I suggest this, don't | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
interview yourself. Allow me to answer the question. Can I suggest | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
you answer the question. We're clear. The IFS said our figures are | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
sound. They haven't said that, actually. We're very clear we can | :18:55. | :19:00. | |
raise in excess of ?50 billion. That will enable us to fund our education | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
pledge and other pledges as well. We stand by that. You've pledged or | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's pledged to scrap university tuition fees. Will that | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
be paid for by a rise in corn ration tax? Wait for the manifesto. Today, | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
we're focusing on our education commitments in terms of that | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
national education service, schools and post-school, particularly for | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
the colleges. At the next stages, we'll move on to the universities | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
and tuition fees. So, the tuition fees are not included in the extra | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
six billion you're already committed to? No, that will be in the | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
manifesto. Let me go on to this business of Corporation Tax being a | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
magic money tree. What assumption in your calculations have you made if | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
Corporation Tax is increased by a third, that companies will change | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
their behaviour and you will not get as much as you project. What | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
assumption have you made about that? Andrew, we need badly to invest in | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
the next generation. I'm not arguing about that. Crucial to the success | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
of our country, including the economic success of our country. I'm | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
not arguing about that. I stress again, we have to resolve this | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
problem of productivity and skills. My question to you Mr Dromey, what | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
assumption as you project a rise in Corporation Tax as you increase the | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
rates, that companies will change their behaviour and you won't get | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
the money that you're hoping for? Companies, of course, will take into | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
account impacts upon them in terms of taxation. Andrew, we will still | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
be the lowest Corporation Tax in the G7 countries. You won't be actually. | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
You won't be Mr Dromey. Let's just look at this. You've raised if. You | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
are the business spokesman for your party. Donald Trump is pledging to | :20:54. | :20:59. | |
cut Corporation Tax to 15%. Mr Macron in France is pledging to cut | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
Corporation Tax too. Just across the Irish Sea is a place called Dublin | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
where Corporation Tax is 12%. So, if you go to 26%, yes, you may well | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
raise more money but as Shadow Business Secretary, you must surely | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
have some calculations that you will lose some because people will simply | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
move? It's a statement of truth. That 26% right now is still the | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
lowest in the G7. If I was you, I would not rely upon pledges mid by | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
Donald Trump. We're relying on your pledges to fund our education | :21:36. | :21:38. | |
system. You can count upon our pledges. It comes back to the simple | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
reality in economic terms, this country will not succeed and its | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
young people will not succeed unless we have a national education service | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
that backs them, their parents and their teachers. Let me clarify this | :21:53. | :21:59. | |
one more time. You're projecting increased revenues on a raises of | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
Corporation Tax over four years by one third. And your assumptions and | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
projections assume companies it will not in any way change their | :22:09. | :22:10. | |
behaviour and you will get that money. How is that in any way | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
credible? Of course companies will take account of taxation in terms of | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
decisions they make. But the companies I deal with here in | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
Birmingham and all over the country, all say the same thing. We can't get | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
Labour, we can't get skilled labour. We need investment in skills for the | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
future. You've made that point. It's not what I'm asking you. And what | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
will be of major benefit, not just to the young people who will get on | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
in life, but what will be of major benefit to the public, private | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
sector and economy in the this country is if we have many more | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
people equipped with the education they deserve and skills. It's | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
absolutely central to the economic success of Britain. I understand | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
that, my argument with you has been how to pay for it. I think we're | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
done now. I understand your press office didn't want to take part in | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
the discussion with Mr Gove. If you want to stay and listen to what he | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
has to say and perhaps come back for ap coent, you're welcome to do so or | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
you're welcome to go. What would you like to do? I'm happy to stay. | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
Perhaps he can answer this question. I ask the questions. You ask and | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
I'll come back at the end. Whatever the mechanisms for funding an | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
increase in education, particularly for schools, is it not clear our | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
schools do need more funding? I think our schools need reform and | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
our schools need healthy funding. It is the case that the Conservatives | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
have safeguarded the amount overall that goes into schools in real terms | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
and in cash terms, the amount per pupil has been safeguarded. The | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
National Audit Office which we can agree is a pretty reliable monitor | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
of these things, an independent. In real terms, schools will have to | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
find cuts of ?3 billion. 8%, by 2020. Labour is talking about | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
raising money for education. We can argue about how they'll fund it. | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
They're talking about putting more in. You, in reality, in real terms, | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
you are are cutting. It is the case the amount per pupil in real terms | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
is protected. In cash term. But in real terms, you are right, we are | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
asking schools to deal with the consequences of tighter budgets. | :24:24. | :24:30. | |
Let's be fair, before 2015, we protected per pupil funding in real | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
terms. At a time when other parts of the public sector were having to | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
take the strain, schools received a better deal. I sympathise with the | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
position that heads and teachers have. But it's critical to | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
appreciate that it's not simply funding that improves education. | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
It's reform as well. I understand that. But you can't do it without | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
money. The mantra has been reform and money. Your manifesto last time, | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
page 2034 said as the number of pupils increase, so will be amount | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
of money in our schools on current pupil numbers forecast, there will | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
be real terms increases. You've broken that promise. There are not | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
real term increases per pupil. There are real term increases overall. | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
You're right. Not per pupil? No, that was the case between 2010 and | :25:20. | :25:25. | |
2015. It is the case umming up now That there will not be real term | :25:26. | :25:31. | |
increases per pupil. That's correct. At a time, you heard Jack dram | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
saying there, how important skilling the population is. You were part of | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
the Brexit campaign. We need to be better educated, better skilled than | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
ever. Why would any Government contemplate cutting in real terms | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
per pupil funding? ? There are two things. The first is the overall | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
increase in school population has been driven by a baby boom and | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
migration under Labour that was not controlled. By leaving the EU we can | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
better control immigration. You've not done so, so far. These kids are | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
already in the school's. It doesn't matter if you control it down the | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
road. These kids are goings through the primary system now and you're | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
cutting the per head funding in real terms? You will be aware 1.8 million | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
children are in good and outstanding schools compared to 2010. Education | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
in England has been improving while education in Scotland and Wales has | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
been moving backwards. You will also be aware, the free schools we've | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
created have created good and outstanding where they did not exist | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
before. We do need to ensure funding is reformed and the Education | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
Secretary is seeking to reform funding in order to make it fairer. | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
If you concentrate simply on cash and don't look at the broader | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
context of what's happening in our schools, you fall into the trap of | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
believing more money automatically is the answer to our educational | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
challenges. I'm not falling into that trap. Well, Labour have. Not | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
only that, they've also as you eloquently pointed out in the course | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
of that interview, Labour will kill the goose that lays the Godden eggs. | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
Labour's approach to Corporation Tax is not going to raise a sustainable | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
sum of money to support our schools. It will change the behaviour of | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
businesses, it will lead to a flight of capital and lead to the economy | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
crashing because of the nonsense Calais preach towards economics. Let | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
me ask you this. It plays to the idealogical approach. As schools in | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
England are being asked to find ?3 billion of cuts, Philip Hammond is | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
able to find another ?320 million for grammar schools. Where's the | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
sense in that? We're giving people choice. But you're cutting the money | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
that goes to the kind of schools, you're asking for cuts to the kind | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
of schools that most children go to? We're actually ensuring every child, | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
whether in a grammar comprehensive or any other type of school will | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
have the money following them, protected in cash terms. I think | :28:06. | :28:10. | |
it's... You Andrew, have written and argued in the past for the merits of | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
selective education. New selective provision will only be set up where | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
there is a popular demand for it. I'm not sure I have, even back to | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
the dim and distant past. Are you in favour of grammar schools? Yes, I | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
am. More grammar schools? Yes. Why didn't you increase grammar schools | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
when you were add Kaags secretary? I did many things. That wasn't one of | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
them. One of the things I'd have loved to have done. Whether I was | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
for and against them. I am in favour of increased selection. We increased | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
selection at the age of 16 but not able to increase it anywhere else, | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
the Liberal Democrats were not in favour. My understand is you didn't | :28:57. | :28:59. | |
push for it either. That's another issue. Paul Nuttall's been patient. | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
I'll go back for a comment from Jack Dromey then too. I don't think | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
raising Corporation Tax is a good idea. I think it is a bad idea. I | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
think Michael's right, it will result in a flight of capital. | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
Ireland has Corporation Tax rate of 12.5%. Donald Trump, I think, will | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
bring it down to 15%. You'll see business leave these shores. That | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
will mean less tax revenues, less work for people. It is a bad idea. | :29:31. | :29:35. | |
However, I will say we really need to reform our education system. Ukip | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
was the first party to come out in favour of grammar schools in 2010. | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
Jack Dromey, what's your reaction to what you've heard? I live in the | :29:46. | :29:50. | |
real world. In my constituency, the schools face a ?10 million cut. I | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
led a delegation of excellent head teachers to meet with the Schools | :29:56. | :30:01. | |
Minister. They said, we'll have to sack teachers, teaching assistants, | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
cut back on our curriculum. Close the school at Friday lunch time. | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
They asked the Government, what do you expect us to do? You're making | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
life impossible for us. It is absolutely right, that what we've | :30:15. | :30:18. | |
done is listen to schools, to listen to young people and to listen to | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
parents and put them first. There is not a single idea that Labour has on | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
education which will actually lead to an improvement in the classroom. | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
Labour have opposed every one of the steps we've taken to improve | :30:33. | :30:35. | |
testing, the curriculum and give parents more choice. So you would | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
sack... This talk of a national educational service is a strong an | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
horse of getting rid of academies, free schools and the rigorous | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
changing we've made. I'm going to have to... We've overrun. I'll have | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
to bring this to an end. Jack Dromey, thank you for waiting. | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
Michael Gove, thank you for being here. | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
Now, three Labour party activists in Surrey have been expelled | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
from the party after they decided to back a candidate who is standing | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
for the National Health Action party against the Health Secretary, | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
Well, we can speak now to Steve Williams, who was one | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
of those members kicked out of the party. | :31:15. | :31:22. | |
You have been expelled from the Labour Party after nearly 50 years | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
as a supporter, but you must have known that that was what would | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
happen if you backed a rival candidate? I think it's very | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
disappointing, Jo, to be honest with you. As you say, I have been a | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
member of the Labour Party for 46 years, and I have been expelled from | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
the Labour Party for actually doing my best to try to secure the outcome | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
of defeating a Conservative MP, a member of Parliament for South West | :31:49. | :31:55. | |
Surrey, who as Secretary of State for Health has done untold damage to | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
the National Health Service. But you understand the parties rules, | :31:59. | :32:04. | |
because you are a long-time member, and they're very clear, that if you | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
publicly support a candidate running against the official Labour Party | :32:09. | :32:12. | |
candidate, then you will be expelled? In fact it happened to Ken | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
Livingstone many years ago when he ran for mayor? Well, what we are | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
seeking to do, actually, is to get Labour candidate to stand down in | :32:23. | :32:25. | |
the constituency. It is the overwhelming view of Labour Party | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
members in South West Surrey that the candidate that has been selected | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
for the South West Surrey constituency should be stood down. | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
And your parties branch agreed to that, there was agreement locally | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
for the Labour Party candidate to stand down, and was it the NEC who | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
actually went over your heads? It was indeed. I have a letter from the | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
head office of the Labour Party saying that I have been in and from | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
the membership register of the Labour Party for actually trying to | :33:00. | :33:06. | |
secure the return of a non-Conservative member of | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
Parliament in South West Surrey. And this is happening all over the | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
country. There are people who are seeing that it is appropriate for | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
Labour Party members and supporters, and for Liberal Democrat members and | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
supporters, and for Green members and supporters, in different parts | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
of the country, to stand down their candidates, to stand aside, for the | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
candidate who is best placed to defeat the Conservatives. There is a | :33:34. | :33:40. | |
regressive alliance of the right, Ukip is supporting Conservative | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
candidates in this election in order to defeat the left. So, why can't | :33:45. | :33:52. | |
the progressive side of politics do the same? You can understand, from | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
the point of view of the party leadership, and it's ruling | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
executive, that this is the official opposition and it should be fielding | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
candidates in every seat and should be able to win as many of those | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
seats as possible. If you do what Ukip has done, to some extent, by | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
agreeing to stand down candidates, you admit in the mind of the public | :34:14. | :34:18. | |
that you cannot put up a proper opposition against the ruling party? | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
Labour is the alternative party of government in this country, and I | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
want to see Jeremy Corbyn in number 10 Downing Street, and it is | :34:28. | :34:33. | |
precisely... And there are residents for the Labour Party standing down | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
its candidates. In 1997, in Tatton, there was a deeply unpopular | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
Conservative member of Parliament in Neil Hamilton, who has now moved | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
over to Ukip, deeply unpopular member of Parliament, and the Labour | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
Party and the Liberal Democrats stood down in Tatton in order to | :34:51. | :34:58. | |
enable Martin bell to stand as a unity candidate. And we have got | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
that unique opportunity in South West Surrey now, we've got the | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
opportunity to defeat one of the most unpopular secretaries of State | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
for health that we have had in this country, who has perpetrated a | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
untold damage to the National Health Service. Will you reapply to join | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
the Labour Party? Of course I will, the Labour Party is in my soul, I | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
want to remain a member of the Labour Party. I didn't leave, I was | :35:25. | :35:25. | |
thrown out. Caroline Lucas, joint leader | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
of the Green Party, had been calling but yesterday claimed Labour | :35:30. | :35:31. | |
and the Lib Dems had "betrayed" their voters, and the Green | :35:32. | :35:38. | |
Party would now focus When we last spoke, I think you were | :35:39. | :35:46. | |
at your conference in Bristol and you were quite enthusiastic about a | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
Progressive Alliance. What has gone wrong? What has gone wrong is that | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
the leadership people around Jeremy Corbyn have absolutely put the lid | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
on this happening. I said it is a betrayal, and that is quite strong | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
word, but it feels like, without some kind of co-operation in a | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
handful of marginal seats, we know how the story ends come we know that | :36:06. | :36:07. | |
we wake up on the 9th of June thinking, how on | :36:08. | :36:21. | |
earth have we allowed a massive Tory landslide? So, there is a huge | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
appetite for this with grassroots Tory members, as we have just seen | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
with Steve Williams. What is so sad is that all of this excitement up | :36:28. | :36:29. | |
and down the country, I have been speaking at meetings all across the | :36:30. | :36:32. | |
country, huge amount of enthusiasm for it, but it has been stopped by | :36:33. | :36:35. | |
the party leadership. So, if it is being stopped at a national level, | :36:36. | :36:37. | |
could it still happen at a local level? I think the example of Steve | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
Williams shows that they will not let it happen. People will get | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
expelled. And this is not just about trying to get rid of the Tories, | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
although it is that, but it is also about trying to return people to | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
Parliament who will fight for a fairer electoral system so that we | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
do not have to have all of these debates, so that people can vote for | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
what they believe in. Over a million people voted Green in 2015, with a | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
proportional system, we would have had 24 MPs, that would have been a | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
better representation of views across the country. At the | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
by-election in Richmond, who offered the Green Party a quarter of ?1 | :37:17. | :37:18. | |
million to stand aside in favour of the Lib Dems? I do not know the name | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
of the person, I know of the incident but it happened after the | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
decision had already been taken to stand down - and the money was not | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
accepted. Any indication that we were standing down in order for | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
money is categorically wrong, it happened after the decision was | :37:36. | :37:37. | |
taken, and the money was not accepted. But somebody did offer | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
?250,000? I believe so, that is my understanding. As joint leader of | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
the party, somebody offers your party that amount of money and you | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
do not know who it is? I don't remember the name. It went through | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
our ethical checks, it did not pass our ethical checks, the money was | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
not accepted. But your candidate did stand aside? Our candidate had | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
already decided to stand aside, as has that candidate decided again, | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
because what we had was the chance to oppose Zac Goldsmith, who had | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
been running a very racist campaign in London, and we wanted to try to | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
get somebody in there who was going to support electoral reform. Except, | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
you will have seen the website which has a leak in internal document from | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
your Richmond party, saying that party staff from the centre put | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
pressure on local activists and said that there was, quote, an offer of a | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
large donation conditional on the party demonstrating its desire for a | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
Progressive Alliance? Andrew, this has all been completely exposed as | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
being two or three annoyed people in the Kingston party, who did not | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
agree with the decision to stand down. As a result, they put out a | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
document which has been criticised, condemned, we looked into this, | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
there was an independent investigation into it which | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
absolutely said that there was no substance to the claims. So you're | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
saying that the local chairman of the Kingston Green Party, and two | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
other members, have made this up? I think they have either been misled | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
themselves, or they've been misinformed, or somehow false | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
information is in that document. That is what our council | :39:20. | :39:26. | |
independently declared. One of them has already gone off and joined the | :39:27. | :39:30. | |
Labour Party. I think this is quite important. It is not true. If this | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
was true of another party... If it were true, Andrew... You would be | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
the first to condemn that? I certainly would, and that's why I am | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
so robustly challenging, as I have done all along the way, that what | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
was in that report was absolutely wrong. The decision to stand down... | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
I do not remember the name because I have never spoken to the person. You | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
don't yet offered a quarter of a million every day! We turned it | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
down, Andrew. They could welcome back and offer the money in a | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
different context. You will need to know who that person is. The party | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
knows who it is, I am very sorry, Andrew, I don't have that name. I | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
came on to talk about the importance of defeating the Tories over going | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
to be on course for a landslide victory, if we don't get our acts | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
together on the left, and that is what I would love to talk about, | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
because it's incredibly important! This is very important to clear up | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
as well. I have cleared it up for you, Andrew, it is completely false! | :40:35. | :40:43. | |
What if this money has come in in another way? I know perfectly well | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
it hasn't because our chief executive is all over this, of | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
course it hasn't! The order to stand aside apparently came on the | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
instruction of the chief executive! It's completely false. The idea that | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
we are spending minutes of valuable national our time talking about a | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
report by three people who have absolutely categorically been shown | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
not to be telling the truth, either by design or accident, is a real | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
shame, because we should be talking about the fact that... One of them | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
isn't because he has just joined the Labour Party! That could be a | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
Progressive Alliance! It could but what I want to talk about is the | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
fact that Theresa May is on course for a landslide victory, and that is | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
bad for the people Labour says it stands for, it is certainly bad for | :41:29. | :41:33. | |
progressive politics in this country as the kind of politics she will be | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
putting in place is not just a hard Brexit, but also taking money out of | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
our education system, our NHS is on its knees, the environment is | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
nowhere in the debate, and has been so far, so I hope you will have me | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
back tomorrow when we are launching our Environment Minister 5-4. I will | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
have you back if you can remember that name! Andrew... -- launching | :41:54. | :42:03. | |
our environment manifesto. You're not standing against Vince Cable in | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
Twickenham, so there are still areas where you are pulling back a bit to | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
allow a non-Tory to get in, is that right? Absolutely. How many seats | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
will that be in? About ten or a dozen. And that will be largely in | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
favour of Lib Dems? It is essentially when either the Lib Dems | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
or Labour will commit to a fairer electoral system, one which does not | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
give power to the government on less than 24% of the eligible vote. Would | :42:31. | :42:38. | |
you stand aside? We will stand aside where there is a situation where a | :42:39. | :42:44. | |
real Brexiteer, not a fly by night Brexiteer, is... Basically, who have | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
changed their tune over the years. Like Theresa May! Yeah, actually, we | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
are standing against Theresa May, actually. People who have campaigned | :43:00. | :43:06. | |
with us for years, campaigned for Brexit, we will give them a free | :43:07. | :43:08. | |
run. We will leave it there. During the election, our intrepid | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
reporters will be out and about testing the mood of the nation | :43:13. | :43:15. | |
with our ever scientific Moodbox. So, Adam, where has | :43:16. | :43:17. | |
the mood taken you today? Hi, not very in trap pit today, | :43:18. | :43:27. | |
because I am down by the River Dee in the City of Chester, and it's | :43:28. | :43:30. | |
absolutely gorgeous. What a nice day. In the last election in 2015, | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
the Labour candidate won by just a few votes over the Conservatives. | :43:37. | :43:45. | |
And Ukip got 8%. Now, this time round, if Ukip voters perhaps voted | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
for another party, or the Ukip candidate stood aside, that could | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
have a crucial impact on the results. So we have taken the | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
Moodbox out onto the streets of Chester to ask people, should the | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
purple party pack up or fight on, now that Brexit seems to be | :44:02. | :44:02. | |
happening? They're pretty much | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
over now, aren't they? Their job is done, and we probably | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
won't see very much of them now. Is that a Ukip balloon | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
you've got on your pram? is that because you're | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
a mega Ukip supporter? How do you think Ukip | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
will do at this election? When he's 25, do you think the UK | :44:28. | :44:33. | |
Independence Party will still exist? Er, unfortunately, I don't think it | :44:34. | :44:45. | |
will, but I think if you're that passionate about your beliefs, | :44:46. | :44:48. | |
I think they should fight on. The way Labour is at the moment, | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
I think it's very vulnerable, and it's probably looking | :44:54. | :44:55. | |
for a new party that could come How do you think Paul Nuttall, | :44:56. | :44:58. | |
the new leader, is doing? Well, if I said something, | :44:59. | :45:08. | |
it would be defamatory, wouldn't it? Well, there's nothing to | :45:09. | :45:10. | |
say nice about him, is there? Hello, sir, what do | :45:11. | :45:20. | |
you think about Ukip? Look at that, a decanter | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
in the shape of a Stormtrooper. What do you think Ukip should do, | :45:24. | :45:36. | |
pack up or fight on? Ukip are talking about things | :45:37. | :45:51. | |
like banning the burqa and things like that - | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
is that up your street? Covering your face and that, | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
you just can't see people. So, you think they should fight | :45:57. | :46:03. | |
on on issues like that? Yeah, fight on with | :46:04. | :46:06. | |
issues like that. The Brexit vote has happened, | :46:07. | :46:08. | |
we're leaving Europe, so their purpose has gone, | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
and you can see them kind of scrambling around, | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
appealing to far-right policies, and the only reason why | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
they would stick around is so that something nastier doesn't follow, | :46:18. | :46:20. | |
in my opinion. Are you like a professor | :46:21. | :46:23. | |
of politics, or something? There we go, a few people think | :46:24. | :46:25. | |
the party should fight on, but many, Our scientific mood box says it all. | :46:26. | :46:50. | |
You're wasting your time and theirs. It is the short-term narrative. | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
People are believing Theresa May. She's able to talk the talk and act | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
tough on Brexit. When accept comes and she has to start walking the | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
walk, when negotiations start, I think she'll begin to backslide. I'm | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
confident that will happen. When she does, Ukip will become more relevant | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
than ever before. It will be too late then. It's already on the | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
slide. If you want to look at something more scientific, we only | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
have to look at local elections last week. You lost every single council | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
seat you were defending. Quite impressive from one point of view. | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
That's a clear message from the electorate? We knew these elections | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
would be the most tough we'd face. Did you think you'd lose every | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
single council? I expect add real bad result. We knew these would be | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
the most difficult local elections we were going to fight. They were | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
made doubly difficult by the fact the Prime Minister called a general | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
election. She did her impression the day before with the fight against | :47:49. | :47:52. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker. That's politics. It was convenient. It made | :47:53. | :47:59. | |
it very difficult for us. Look, politics is cyclical. It isn't just | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
about the short-term but the long-term. If Ukip stays on the | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
pitch, I believe it will prosper in future. It will be difficult to stay | :48:07. | :48:10. | |
on the pitch. With regards to Brexit, people are believing Theresa | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
May, in your own words. For now. In the meantime, you have to watch | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
what's been happening within your own party? Aaron banks, your major | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
donor says you've crashed the car. Douglas Carswell, your only MP until | :48:26. | :48:33. | |
he threw in the towel. Did you ever think you'd hear Aaron Banks and | :48:34. | :48:37. | |
Douglas Carswell agree on anything? No, you may have a point there. | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
Seriously, this is all short-term thinking. What we need to do... | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
Aaron Banks says you crashed the car, Douglas Carswell is gone. That | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
doesn't matter. Politics will come back on to our turf. Ukip has to | :48:53. | :48:57. | |
hold its nerve. Stay on the pitch and the future will be very bright, | :48:58. | :49:01. | |
I'm sure. You lost all those council seats. These were local elections. | :49:02. | :49:05. | |
That's because they don't see you as a party beyond Brexit. If it | :49:06. | :49:09. | |
continues people brief Theresa May on the issue of coming out of the | :49:10. | :49:13. | |
EU, you don't have anything to offer. Yes, you've put forward | :49:14. | :49:16. | |
policies. But people aren't interested in you for those or not | :49:17. | :49:20. | |
in any large numbers? Firstly, when she begins the backslide, I think | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
she'll backslide on fisheries. There may be some deal on freedom of | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
movement. I think we may end up paying this divorce bill. People | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
will feel betrayed. Where will these people go? Not lemme or Green or | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
Labour. They'll come back to Ukip. What can Ukip do? In what sense? In | :49:39. | :49:44. | |
terms of changing her direction on Brexit. If you haven't any local | :49:45. | :49:50. | |
council I wills. We have. Or enough local councillors or MPs, if you | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
don't get any in the general election how will you do it? How did | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
we put David Cameron under pressure to give us the referendum in the | :49:58. | :50:03. | |
first place. Ukip goes up in the poles, stays strong, elect otherly | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
viable. I believe that will be the case in years to come. There isn't a | :50:07. | :50:12. | |
broader offer from Ukip on Brexit? If you look, when you see our | :50:13. | :50:16. | |
manifesto, it will be radical, forward thinking. We'll lead the | :50:17. | :50:20. | |
debate. I think our manifesto in many ways will be a decade ahead of | :50:21. | :50:25. | |
its time. I guarantee the policies we put forward now will no doubt | :50:26. | :50:30. | |
about the policies of the mainstream political parties or Government | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
policy in ten years' time. One of your councillors in Essex quit your | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
party saying it was a spent force. He was defecting a Jeremy Corbyn's | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
Labour Party. People are going in all ebb directions from Ukip. That's | :50:43. | :50:48. | |
the first I've heard. Jack Parsons, elected to award in Clacton. You | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
need to keep up. It is a strange move, isn't it, I suppose. Then | :50:53. | :50:57. | |
again, we had a Conservative councillor defect to us yesterday. | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
Ukip has to hold its nerve. This is, look... This will be a difficult | :51:02. | :51:03. | |
election. There's no doubt about that. You're not going to win any | :51:04. | :51:09. | |
seats? We may well win a couple. We're targeting sincebly. Focusing | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
our resources in terms of manpower, financial resources on a small | :51:16. | :51:18. | |
number of seats. You think two at most? Look, do you know, we could | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
get over the line in a number of seats this time round. Maybe our | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
vote share won't be as high as last but maybe we'll get over the line. | :51:27. | :51:29. | |
What I have to do is keep this party on the pitch. You just said, though, | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
that you are waiting for Theresa May to backslide. She won't keep to her | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
commitments in terms of the sort of Brexit you'd like to see. Why are | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
you telling large parts of the country to vote Tory? Well, we're | :51:45. | :51:49. | |
also telling people in certain seats to go out and vote Labour. Why are | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
you telling them to vote for a Tory Party you believe won't police | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
officer deliver? These are people who are true and real precious | :51:59. | :52:02. | |
tears. Theresa May never was. She wanted us to remain in the European | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
Union. You're asking your supporters to vote for her? There are specific | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
seats with specific sitting MPs where we'll stand aside to ensure we | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
get the Brexit we want. It is quite a moral thing to do, really. It is | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
about putting your country above your party. According to Professor | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
Stephen Fisher at Oxford Euan very it is, the scale of Ukip's collapse | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
will be an important factor in the scale of Theresa May's victory. Do | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
you accept that? I think our vote share will go down. There's no doubt | :52:35. | :52:38. | |
about that. We're contesting this election on a sticky wicket. Because | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
the Prime Minister's being believed at this present moment in time. If | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
there's a move between us and the Conservatives, you've already seen | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
that in the polls, it will play an important factor. We have to target | :52:52. | :52:55. | |
sensibly on a certain number of seats and try to get over the line. | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Do you think you'll be the last leader of Ukip? No. Are you | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
finished? Yeah. Thank you. Now, not every politician can | :53:03. | :53:04. | |
command primetime on The One Show, or even a slot | :53:05. | :53:07. | |
on the Daily Politics. So, what have they been up to back | :53:08. | :53:09. | |
on the election trail? Here's Emma Vardy with | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
our campaign round-up. Tim Farron boarded | :53:13. | :53:15. | |
a resucue hovercraft as he launched the Liberal Democrats | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
campaign in Burnham-On-Sea. He was taken for a ride | :53:19. | :53:22. | |
in the Lib Dems former heartlands of the south-west where the party's | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
hoping to resurface. Today, the Liberal Democrats | :53:26. | :53:27. | |
are pledging to spend an extra Angela Rayner, are we talking | :53:28. | :53:31. | |
about 50 children, 5,000, Angela Rayner spoke to LBC | :53:32. | :53:36. | |
about Labour's promise ensuring no But when asked how many children | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
that would help, it appeared the Shadow Education Minister hadn't | :53:43. | :53:53. | |
done her homework on the figures. Go on then, if you've | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
got it, give it me. It's a substantial | :53:59. | :54:01. | |
number, go for it! Mysterious pair of legs | :54:02. | :54:03. | |
without a body, perhaps? Seems Labour's Kate Hoey, or one of | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
her team, attempted to Photoshop her Liberal Democrat rival George Turner | :54:09. | :54:12. | |
out of the picture only to make one of those digital altering | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
schoolboy errors. And, look who's campaigning | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
in the New Forest. Desmond Swain took Maggie | :54:21. | :54:23. | |
for a ride and a furry friend. These steak and haggis pies | :54:24. | :54:28. | |
were the product of an SNP campaign visit in East Dunbartonshire | :54:29. | :54:39. | |
with John Nicholson. After lanching Labour's campaign, | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
Jeremy Corbyn found solidarity in song with a busker | :54:44. | :54:54. | |
on the streets of Ashton-under-Lyne. # Darling, darling, stand by me # | :54:55. | :54:56. | |
Oh, stand by me # Oh stand.... Now, throughout the election | :54:57. | :55:07. | |
campaign, we're taking a look at some of the smaller parties | :55:08. | :55:09. | |
hoping to make gains Today we're looking at the Women's | :55:10. | :55:11. | |
Equality Party, who are currently The Women's Equality Party | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
was founded in 2015. They're calling for equality | :55:16. | :55:19. | |
in politics, business and executive They want to close the gender pay | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
gap, saying that women earn 52% They're calling for equal maternity | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
and paternity leave. And they want to see gender | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
stereotypes challenged We're joined now from Leeds | :55:38. | :55:39. | |
by their leader, Sophie Walker. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :55:40. | :55:52. | |
Hello. What is it your pushing for that women in politics aren't | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
already tackling? We've women select committees, ministers, women's | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
issues are debated. Why aren't you backing the party that best | :56:03. | :56:04. | |
represents women's rights? Because we've much better policies and much | :56:05. | :56:11. | |
better candidates. Actually our whole system looks at it | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
differently. We're offering voters a better, different option. One that | :56:16. | :56:18. | |
flips politics on its head, if you like. What we do is we design a | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
system that works for the furthest first. If you look at the | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
experiences of the single biggest discriminated against group, women, | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
in all of our diversity, you create a political system and policies that | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
work better for everyone. Do you not think some of the existing politics, | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
we can name the leaders of the various parties at the moment, the | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
Prime Minister, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, Caroline Lucas, they are | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
doing quite well in of themselves. Are they not promoting from within | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
the system the change you want? No, that's why we're here. We're | :56:56. | :56:58. | |
bringing new and fresh voices in our candidates. Many of whom have never | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
done politics before and are providing the interesting and | :57:04. | :57:05. | |
different backgrounds which would be so valuable in Westminster. But, | :57:06. | :57:09. | |
we're also looking really specifically and closely at how we | :57:10. | :57:15. | |
redesign, for example, investment in the economy. We will be prioritising | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
a look at how you invest in the social infrastructure of this | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
country. Time and time again, Chancellor after Chancellor stands | :57:25. | :57:27. | |
up and says here's a great idea to get the economy going. Let's invest | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
in physical infrastructure, housing, roads, bridges. What we're saying, | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
how about if we look at the other side of that? How about we invest in | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
free childcare? That would have a transformative impact on lives of | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
women right across this country. You'd increase your tax base. You | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
would decrees the number of out of work benefits. That would have a | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
knock on effect for everybody in a very positive way. We haven't time | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
to go through costing. In your manifesto you open with the line | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
nowhere in the world do women enjoy full equality. Do you really think | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
that the position of women in western liberal democracies can be | :58:10. | :58:12. | |
compared to the situation experienced by women around the | :58:13. | :58:14. | |
world in the way you've presented it there? First of all, that's not our | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
manifesto, it is our policy document we launched in 2015. Our manifesto | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
is coming shortly. You stand by that? Absolutely. This is a classic | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
case of what aboutry. We're not allowed to talk about women's | :58:31. | :58:33. | |
equality unless we start from somewhere else. Setting aside, | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
frankly, if you want a feminist approach to foreign policy you have | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
to have more fen Nices in Parliament, it is very clear when | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
you look at the statistics here in the UK, women don't have the same | :58:48. | :58:55. | |
options. They outnumber women by Two to one in Parliament. Women suffer | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
disproportionately from austerity mesh Ewings. They paid ?86 out of | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
every ?100 saved. Sophie, we're going to have to finish it there. | :59:06. | :59:08. | |
We've run out of time. There's just time before we go | :59:09. | :59:09. | |
to find out the answer to our quiz. Crime writer James Patterson has | :59:10. | :59:12. | |
joined forces with which political figure to write a thriller set | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
in the White House? The one o'clock news is starting | :59:17. | :59:18. | |
over on BBC One now. Jo and I will be | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories | :59:28. | :59:29. | |
of the day. | :59:30. | :59:32. |