10/05/2017 Daily Politics


10/05/2017

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Ukip leader Paul Nuttall to discuss the latest political news ahead of June's general election. Plus Labour's school funding plans.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon folks - welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Labour promises a massive increase in education spending in England

:00:41.:00:44.

and says it will raise corporation tax by over a third

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The Conservatives say the plans are "nonsensical".

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The Green Party says it will no longer consider what it calls

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"progressive alliances", accusing Labour and the Lib Dems of

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failing to consider electoral pacts between broadly left-wing parties.

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Green Party leader, Caroline Lucas, joins us live.

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We've brought the Moodbox to Chester to ask people

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whether they think Ukip have had their moment in the sun.

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And, as part of our series on smaller parties

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today, we speak to the leader of the Women's Equality Party.

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And with us for the duration, the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall.

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Now in the last hour, the Crown Prosecution Service has

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announced that no criminal charges are to be brought over

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14 police inquiries into Conservative Party election

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spending in the 2015 general election.

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One file from Kent Police remains under consideration,

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although we won't hear today whether charges will be brought

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Let's talk to our home affairs correspondent Tom Symonds.

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What has happened here? Well, this has been running for a long time. It

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followed an investigation by Channel 4 News into the way in which parties

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were finding their candidates' campaigns in various constituencies.

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The latest is that the police, in 14 different parts of England, have

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been looking into, have passed on files to the Crown Prosecution

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Service to see whether they would be charges, and today, the CPS has said

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that in all of those 14 cases, there will be no charges. Why? Well, it is

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down to the law which effectively says this, it says, it is an offence

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to knowingly make a false tax oration, and in order to bring

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charge, it must be proved that a suspect did know that they were

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acting dishonestly in declaring election expenses. And clearly, the

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CPS has decided that that is not the case in all of these situations

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around the country. Largely, we're talking about the Conservatives'

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battle buses, travelling around the country, putting activists into

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various places. They always said it was national spending and it did not

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reach their national spending limits, and the CPS is clearly

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saying, there is nothing criminal here. That will come as a relief to

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the Conservatives, because this was hanging over them, but there is

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still one outstanding case in Kent - do we know when we might hear about

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that? I think shortly, Andrew, within the next week or so. But the

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cut-off date for candidates to take part in the general election is

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tomorrow. So, if you want to pull out, or if you want to come into the

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race, you have to say by tomorrow, and we are not going to hear about

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this Kent case until next week. We understand it is all about the South

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Thanet seat under way in which party resources were put into that seat,

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whether or not it was national or local spending. But it does mean

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that that will have to be left hanging, unless the constructs want

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to choose another candidate in the next 24 hours, otherwise, they will

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have to continue with the team they currently have in South Thanet. But

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the Conservatives are very pleased with today's announcement, they say

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that the CPS has confirmed what we knew all along, that the

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Conservative candidates did nothing wrong, these were politically

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motivated and unfounded complaints, this is from Patrick McLoughlin, the

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chair of the party, which have wasted police time. He goes on to

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say, a number of malicious claims continue to be spread on the

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internet. He says, people should be aware that making false claims about

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candidates is an electoral offence. So, a hard-hitting response from the

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Conservatives. Thanks for bringing us up to date.

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Now, it's another busy day in the election campaign.

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For the latest, I'm joined from College Green by Katy Balls

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from The Spectator, and Stephen Bush from The New Statesman.

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Let's kick off with Theresa May, hosting the Nato general secretary,

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Jens Stoltenberg. Oh, no, we have Jeremy Corbyn instead. Let's remove

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that for a moment... Anyway, they were together at No 10, it was not

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just a courtesy call, Jens Stoltenberg would like some

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commitment from Theresa May in terms of more troops in Afghanistan. What

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would that do to this election campaign? Well, one would assume it

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would ring the issue of our involvement in Afghanistan in to the

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picture. Perhaps it would help Labour, but also it would be

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possibly hurting them on security issues. So it is hard to see who

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would benefit from this as an election issue. In terms of Labour,

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Katy Balls, what do you think about this call from Nato? He said he

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would be happy to agree to a request like that, and that kind of makes

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sense, it fits with his own non-interventionist approach. And I

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think a lot of the public might agree with it. There is a very

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lukewarm reaction to sending more troops to Afghanistan. But because

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Theresa May wants Britain to be outward-looking post-Brexit, I also

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think she will want to keep these Nato commitments. What about our

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actual commitments already, in terms of spending? We are supposedly

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living up to the Nato commitment of spending 2%, but actually, in the

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papers this morning, there is a letter saying that Theresa May's

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boasts of spending that are actually an accounting deception, what do you

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make of that? We know that there is a lot of creative accountancy about

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how you get to that defence targets. 2% we expect that to be a subplot of

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the election. But again, Labour does not want this election to be about

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national security. And Katy Balls, will it come an issue, do you think,

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or will this just pass by? I think we saw last week kind of David Davis

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and Philip Hammond stood in front of a poster of a bomb, and said, Jeremy

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Corbyn would not give bombs to the army, they're quite happy on

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defence. And I think Labour are unhappy on defence. The Shadow

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Defence Secretary has suggested about giving more money to the army,

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but I think a lot of people still would not be happy voting for Jeremy

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Corbyn, given about his comments about whether or not he would kill

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the leader of Isis. What about Europe, could cook yesterday, Jeremy

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Corbyn seemed to that the issue of Brexit was saddled, and then would

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not quite answer the question about whether if he was prone minister, he

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would actually take Britain out of the EU? What did you make of that?

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It seemed very strange, partly because Jeremy Corbyn is a lifelong

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Eurosceptic, other than about -- other than about the six months of

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the referendum. The fact that he stumbled on that is a bit of a

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mystery. And Katy Balls, do you think it was just a stumble or was

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there more to it than that? I think it's just typical of Labour at the

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moment, their whole Brexit strategy seems to be to say one thing, the

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issue of Brexit is settled, which will help with the Labour Brexit

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voters, and then he goes on to refuse to say whether Britain is

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actually going to leave the EU. Last night, of course, we had a

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hard-hitting interview with Theresa May and her husband on the one show.

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Let's take a quick look... How hard is it to win a negotiation with your

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wife? That's a good question. There is give and take in every marriage.

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I get to decide when I take the bins out, not IF I take the bins out!

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There is boys' jobs and girls' jobs. I do the traditional boy jobs, by

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and large. If you are the kind of man who expects his tea to be on the

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table six o'clock every evening, you could be disappointed. Do you make

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the team? From time to time. Theresa is a very good cook indeed,

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actually. Yes, at home, we lived in the flat at Downing Street but we

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like to get home at weekends, and that's where most of my cookery

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books are. How do you think that interview went in terms of Tory HQ?

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It was quite awkward to watch. But at the same time, I think the

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Conservatives working to show Theresa May's more personal side,

:10:06.:10:12.

softer side. Which it probably did achieve, even though there were

:10:13.:10:15.

those awkward moments. But do you think overall it was positive for

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them, Stephen Bush? Yeah, it would have irritated people like me, with

:10:20.:10:25.

the boys jobs, girls' jobs thing, but it showed her to be a warm, Home

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Counties woman. Paul Nuttall, would you like to appear on a show like

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that? Not particularly, it is not really my cup of tea, to be honest

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with you. I think there is a fine balance between your public life and

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private life. It's horses for courses, really. I think there is a

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danger sometimes with spouses that they can become too involved, and I

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think Cherie Blair was a perfect example of that, I could argue maybe

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Michelle Obama as well. So it is horses for courses, it is not for

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me. But the public quite like to see the personal side would it worry

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you, would you feel uncomfortable having to do that more personal

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stuff? Not particularly. I have done a number of interviews on a more

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personal level, I have to say that I've always been very keen to keep

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my private life private. Again, it's horses for courses. If Theresa May

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wants to go on shows like that and bring her husband out, that's

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entirely up to her. So how are we going to do the boys' jobs and

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girls' jobs on this programme? As usual, I'll do the girls' jobs!

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Crime writer James Patterson has joined forces with which political

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figure to write a thriller set in the White House?

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At the end of the show, Paul Nuttall will give

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Labour says it will hike up business taxes to fund a major increase

:12:01.:12:05.

in education spending in England, if it wins the election.

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The party's plans for what it calls a National Education Service

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would see class sizes for five- to-seven year-olds kept below 30,

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while almost ?5 billion extra would be pumped into the English

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Labour says it will all be funded, primarily, by increasing

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It will cost up to ?6 billion when you send money to Scotland and Wales

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for education as well. Labour have today said that they'll

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create what they call Under the plans, a future Labour

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government would give schools a real-terms funding increase,

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reduce class sizes to under 30 for five- to seven-year-olds,

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and give free school meals And Labour would also restore

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the educational maintenance allowance for college students,

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scrap fees on courses for adult learners and put more money

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into maintenance grants Let's take a look at Jeremy Corbyn

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explaining the thinking behind This was Labour's Shadow Education

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Secretary speaking earlier today. We will secure the best education

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possible for every single child And that starts with proper

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funding of our schools. We will reverse the ?3 billion

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of cuts that our schools And protect per pupil funding over

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the course of the next Parliament. And, unlike the Tories,

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when we say real terms, To fund their proposals,

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Labour say they would give schools in England an extra

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?4.8 billion a year. The money would be paid

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for by raising corporation tax. The Conservatives say Labour have

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already spent the extra revenue from corporation tax and they've

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described Labour's Well, this is what the Institute

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for Fiscal Studies had to say about Labour's corporation

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tax plans earlier. The Labour Party proposals would

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certainly raise more than enough from corporation tax

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to pay for these increases But, of course, an increase

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in corporation tax It will reduce investment

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by companies in the UK and, in the long run,

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it won't raise as much as it might in the short run,

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as companies change their behaviour, reduce investment or,

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indeed, move abroad. Joining me now from Birmingham

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is the Shadow Business Minister, Jack Dromey, and in the studio,

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I'm joined by the former Welcome to you both. Jack Dromey,

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first, when you look at the figures, it looks like by 2021, you're going

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to spend over the UK an extra 6 billion for education, and you say

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it can all be paid for by raising corporation tax by a third. But

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haven't you already spent some of that corporation tax on other

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things? We are determined to establish a national education

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service. You have to find those commitments. We will fund them from

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corporation tax. That will fund a very ambitious

:15:26.:15:38.

pledge to the young people of this country, to their parents and to the

:15:39.:15:42.

teachers of this country. In terms of commitments, we are now into a

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general election period. Therefore, we are determined, Andrew, that

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every single pledge we make, we cost so that the British people can be

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confident that we will not only make the pledge, but unlike the Tories

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who always break their promise, we'll deliver on the pledge. Let's

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look at this. I thought you'd already promised to use Corporation

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Tax to give pay rises above inflation to NHS staff? We are

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making commitments now in relation to a general election. We've, hang

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on, we've been looking at a whole range of commitments that might be

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made. You will hear in relation to the NHS, the announcement we've

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already made. If you look at the totality of what can be raised on

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that increase of Corporation Tax over the next four years, it's

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actually ?50 billion, in excess of that. These are your own figures.

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Not what the... Let me clarify, is it your plan now not to pay for the

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increase in NHS staff pay by Corporation Tax? We will honour our

:16:51.:16:55.

commitment to health service staff. But will you financial it from the

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Corporation Tax revenues? The commitment made by John Ashworth is

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a commitment that we will honour. The interesting thing about the IFS.

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How will be finance it? The interesting thing is today the IFS

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say our figures are sound. They raised a question mark over the

:17:15.:17:18.

economic impact. Our strong view is this, we've a chronic problem in

:17:19.:17:23.

this country of skills and productivity. We have to sort that.

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I understand that's the case. I'm trying to work out how you're going

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to pay for it. On this programme, your head of campaign, you're in an

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election campaign, you're head of the election campaign Andrew Gwyn

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said categorically, you'd use Corporation Tax to fund a pay rise

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for the NHS is that still your policy or not? We stand by that

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commitment. And the financing of it? Yes, the totality of what can be

:17:54.:17:57.

raised, in terms of what we're proposing on Corporation Tax, is in

:17:58.:18:02.

excess of ?50 billion. You've accumulated that. How much by 2021,

:18:03.:18:08.

how much extra will Corporation Tax be bringing in under your scheme?

:18:09.:18:13.

Under our scheme, it will raise in excess of ?50 billion. No, you've

:18:14.:18:18.

added up all the years. I'm asking you by 2021, how much extra that

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year, will Corporation Tax bring in? In excess of ?50 billion, Andrew.

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That's over four years Mr Dromey. It won't bring in ?50 billion in one

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year. Total Corporation Tax receipts at the moment are ?50 billion. You

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cannot bring in ?50 billion extra in one year. Can I suggest this, don't

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interview yourself. Allow me to answer the question. Can I suggest

:18:45.:18:48.

you answer the question. We're clear. The IFS said our figures are

:18:49.:18:54.

sound. They haven't said that, actually. We're very clear we can

:18:55.:19:00.

raise in excess of ?50 billion. That will enable us to fund our education

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pledge and other pledges as well. We stand by that. You've pledged or

:19:05.:19:08.

Jeremy Corbyn's pledged to scrap university tuition fees. Will that

:19:09.:19:13.

be paid for by a rise in corn ration tax? Wait for the manifesto. Today,

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we're focusing on our education commitments in terms of that

:19:20.:19:23.

national education service, schools and post-school, particularly for

:19:24.:19:27.

the colleges. At the next stages, we'll move on to the universities

:19:28.:19:32.

and tuition fees. So, the tuition fees are not included in the extra

:19:33.:19:37.

six billion you're already committed to? No, that will be in the

:19:38.:19:43.

manifesto. Let me go on to this business of Corporation Tax being a

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magic money tree. What assumption in your calculations have you made if

:19:49.:19:53.

Corporation Tax is increased by a third, that companies will change

:19:54.:19:56.

their behaviour and you will not get as much as you project. What

:19:57.:20:02.

assumption have you made about that? Andrew, we need badly to invest in

:20:03.:20:07.

the next generation. I'm not arguing about that. Crucial to the success

:20:08.:20:11.

of our country, including the economic success of our country. I'm

:20:12.:20:15.

not arguing about that. I stress again, we have to resolve this

:20:16.:20:20.

problem of productivity and skills. My question to you Mr Dromey, what

:20:21.:20:26.

assumption as you project a rise in Corporation Tax as you increase the

:20:27.:20:29.

rates, that companies will change their behaviour and you won't get

:20:30.:20:34.

the money that you're hoping for? Companies, of course, will take into

:20:35.:20:38.

account impacts upon them in terms of taxation. Andrew, we will still

:20:39.:20:43.

be the lowest Corporation Tax in the G7 countries. You won't be actually.

:20:44.:20:48.

You won't be Mr Dromey. Let's just look at this. You've raised if. You

:20:49.:20:53.

are the business spokesman for your party. Donald Trump is pledging to

:20:54.:20:59.

cut Corporation Tax to 15%. Mr Macron in France is pledging to cut

:21:00.:21:04.

Corporation Tax too. Just across the Irish Sea is a place called Dublin

:21:05.:21:09.

where Corporation Tax is 12%. So, if you go to 26%, yes, you may well

:21:10.:21:16.

raise more money but as Shadow Business Secretary, you must surely

:21:17.:21:19.

have some calculations that you will lose some because people will simply

:21:20.:21:26.

move? It's a statement of truth. That 26% right now is still the

:21:27.:21:31.

lowest in the G7. If I was you, I would not rely upon pledges mid by

:21:32.:21:35.

Donald Trump. We're relying on your pledges to fund our education

:21:36.:21:38.

system. You can count upon our pledges. It comes back to the simple

:21:39.:21:44.

reality in economic terms, this country will not succeed and its

:21:45.:21:49.

young people will not succeed unless we have a national education service

:21:50.:21:52.

that backs them, their parents and their teachers. Let me clarify this

:21:53.:21:59.

one more time. You're projecting increased revenues on a raises of

:22:00.:22:02.

Corporation Tax over four years by one third. And your assumptions and

:22:03.:22:08.

projections assume companies it will not in any way change their

:22:09.:22:10.

behaviour and you will get that money. How is that in any way

:22:11.:22:15.

credible? Of course companies will take account of taxation in terms of

:22:16.:22:20.

decisions they make. But the companies I deal with here in

:22:21.:22:23.

Birmingham and all over the country, all say the same thing. We can't get

:22:24.:22:30.

Labour, we can't get skilled labour. We need investment in skills for the

:22:31.:22:34.

future. You've made that point. It's not what I'm asking you. And what

:22:35.:22:38.

will be of major benefit, not just to the young people who will get on

:22:39.:22:43.

in life, but what will be of major benefit to the public, private

:22:44.:22:46.

sector and economy in the this country is if we have many more

:22:47.:22:50.

people equipped with the education they deserve and skills. It's

:22:51.:22:54.

absolutely central to the economic success of Britain. I understand

:22:55.:22:58.

that, my argument with you has been how to pay for it. I think we're

:22:59.:23:02.

done now. I understand your press office didn't want to take part in

:23:03.:23:05.

the discussion with Mr Gove. If you want to stay and listen to what he

:23:06.:23:09.

has to say and perhaps come back for ap coent, you're welcome to do so or

:23:10.:23:13.

you're welcome to go. What would you like to do? I'm happy to stay.

:23:14.:23:19.

Perhaps he can answer this question. I ask the questions. You ask and

:23:20.:23:24.

I'll come back at the end. Whatever the mechanisms for funding an

:23:25.:23:27.

increase in education, particularly for schools, is it not clear our

:23:28.:23:32.

schools do need more funding? I think our schools need reform and

:23:33.:23:35.

our schools need healthy funding. It is the case that the Conservatives

:23:36.:23:39.

have safeguarded the amount overall that goes into schools in real terms

:23:40.:23:43.

and in cash terms, the amount per pupil has been safeguarded. The

:23:44.:23:48.

National Audit Office which we can agree is a pretty reliable monitor

:23:49.:23:53.

of these things, an independent. In real terms, schools will have to

:23:54.:23:58.

find cuts of ?3 billion. 8%, by 2020. Labour is talking about

:23:59.:24:03.

raising money for education. We can argue about how they'll fund it.

:24:04.:24:07.

They're talking about putting more in. You, in reality, in real terms,

:24:08.:24:14.

you are are cutting. It is the case the amount per pupil in real terms

:24:15.:24:18.

is protected. In cash term. But in real terms, you are right, we are

:24:19.:24:23.

asking schools to deal with the consequences of tighter budgets.

:24:24.:24:30.

Let's be fair, before 2015, we protected per pupil funding in real

:24:31.:24:33.

terms. At a time when other parts of the public sector were having to

:24:34.:24:37.

take the strain, schools received a better deal. I sympathise with the

:24:38.:24:41.

position that heads and teachers have. But it's critical to

:24:42.:24:46.

appreciate that it's not simply funding that improves education.

:24:47.:24:49.

It's reform as well. I understand that. But you can't do it without

:24:50.:24:54.

money. The mantra has been reform and money. Your manifesto last time,

:24:55.:25:00.

page 2034 said as the number of pupils increase, so will be amount

:25:01.:25:06.

of money in our schools on current pupil numbers forecast, there will

:25:07.:25:09.

be real terms increases. You've broken that promise. There are not

:25:10.:25:14.

real term increases per pupil. There are real term increases overall.

:25:15.:25:19.

You're right. Not per pupil? No, that was the case between 2010 and

:25:20.:25:25.

2015. It is the case umming up now That there will not be real term

:25:26.:25:31.

increases per pupil. That's correct. At a time, you heard Jack dram

:25:32.:25:36.

saying there, how important skilling the population is. You were part of

:25:37.:25:40.

the Brexit campaign. We need to be better educated, better skilled than

:25:41.:25:44.

ever. Why would any Government contemplate cutting in real terms

:25:45.:25:48.

per pupil funding? ? There are two things. The first is the overall

:25:49.:25:53.

increase in school population has been driven by a baby boom and

:25:54.:25:58.

migration under Labour that was not controlled. By leaving the EU we can

:25:59.:26:05.

better control immigration. You've not done so, so far. These kids are

:26:06.:26:09.

already in the school's. It doesn't matter if you control it down the

:26:10.:26:13.

road. These kids are goings through the primary system now and you're

:26:14.:26:17.

cutting the per head funding in real terms? You will be aware 1.8 million

:26:18.:26:24.

children are in good and outstanding schools compared to 2010. Education

:26:25.:26:28.

in England has been improving while education in Scotland and Wales has

:26:29.:26:32.

been moving backwards. You will also be aware, the free schools we've

:26:33.:26:37.

created have created good and outstanding where they did not exist

:26:38.:26:42.

before. We do need to ensure funding is reformed and the Education

:26:43.:26:45.

Secretary is seeking to reform funding in order to make it fairer.

:26:46.:26:49.

If you concentrate simply on cash and don't look at the broader

:26:50.:26:53.

context of what's happening in our schools, you fall into the trap of

:26:54.:26:58.

believing more money automatically is the answer to our educational

:26:59.:27:02.

challenges. I'm not falling into that trap. Well, Labour have. Not

:27:03.:27:07.

only that, they've also as you eloquently pointed out in the course

:27:08.:27:12.

of that interview, Labour will kill the goose that lays the Godden eggs.

:27:13.:27:15.

Labour's approach to Corporation Tax is not going to raise a sustainable

:27:16.:27:20.

sum of money to support our schools. It will change the behaviour of

:27:21.:27:25.

businesses, it will lead to a flight of capital and lead to the economy

:27:26.:27:29.

crashing because of the nonsense Calais preach towards economics. Let

:27:30.:27:35.

me ask you this. It plays to the idealogical approach. As schools in

:27:36.:27:40.

England are being asked to find ?3 billion of cuts, Philip Hammond is

:27:41.:27:45.

able to find another ?320 million for grammar schools. Where's the

:27:46.:27:49.

sense in that? We're giving people choice. But you're cutting the money

:27:50.:27:53.

that goes to the kind of schools, you're asking for cuts to the kind

:27:54.:27:58.

of schools that most children go to? We're actually ensuring every child,

:27:59.:28:01.

whether in a grammar comprehensive or any other type of school will

:28:02.:28:05.

have the money following them, protected in cash terms. I think

:28:06.:28:10.

it's... You Andrew, have written and argued in the past for the merits of

:28:11.:28:16.

selective education. New selective provision will only be set up where

:28:17.:28:23.

there is a popular demand for it. I'm not sure I have, even back to

:28:24.:28:27.

the dim and distant past. Are you in favour of grammar schools? Yes, I

:28:28.:28:34.

am. More grammar schools? Yes. Why didn't you increase grammar schools

:28:35.:28:38.

when you were add Kaags secretary? I did many things. That wasn't one of

:28:39.:28:44.

them. One of the things I'd have loved to have done. Whether I was

:28:45.:28:49.

for and against them. I am in favour of increased selection. We increased

:28:50.:28:53.

selection at the age of 16 but not able to increase it anywhere else,

:28:54.:28:56.

the Liberal Democrats were not in favour. My understand is you didn't

:28:57.:28:59.

push for it either. That's another issue. Paul Nuttall's been patient.

:29:00.:29:06.

I'll go back for a comment from Jack Dromey then too. I don't think

:29:07.:29:12.

raising Corporation Tax is a good idea. I think it is a bad idea. I

:29:13.:29:17.

think Michael's right, it will result in a flight of capital.

:29:18.:29:22.

Ireland has Corporation Tax rate of 12.5%. Donald Trump, I think, will

:29:23.:29:27.

bring it down to 15%. You'll see business leave these shores. That

:29:28.:29:30.

will mean less tax revenues, less work for people. It is a bad idea.

:29:31.:29:35.

However, I will say we really need to reform our education system. Ukip

:29:36.:29:39.

was the first party to come out in favour of grammar schools in 2010.

:29:40.:29:45.

Jack Dromey, what's your reaction to what you've heard? I live in the

:29:46.:29:50.

real world. In my constituency, the schools face a ?10 million cut. I

:29:51.:29:55.

led a delegation of excellent head teachers to meet with the Schools

:29:56.:30:01.

Minister. They said, we'll have to sack teachers, teaching assistants,

:30:02.:30:04.

cut back on our curriculum. Close the school at Friday lunch time.

:30:05.:30:08.

They asked the Government, what do you expect us to do? You're making

:30:09.:30:14.

life impossible for us. It is absolutely right, that what we've

:30:15.:30:18.

done is listen to schools, to listen to young people and to listen to

:30:19.:30:23.

parents and put them first. There is not a single idea that Labour has on

:30:24.:30:27.

education which will actually lead to an improvement in the classroom.

:30:28.:30:32.

Labour have opposed every one of the steps we've taken to improve

:30:33.:30:35.

testing, the curriculum and give parents more choice. So you would

:30:36.:30:40.

sack... This talk of a national educational service is a strong an

:30:41.:30:44.

horse of getting rid of academies, free schools and the rigorous

:30:45.:30:48.

changing we've made. I'm going to have to... We've overrun. I'll have

:30:49.:30:54.

to bring this to an end. Jack Dromey, thank you for waiting.

:30:55.:30:57.

Michael Gove, thank you for being here.

:30:58.:31:00.

Now, three Labour party activists in Surrey have been expelled

:31:01.:31:05.

from the party after they decided to back a candidate who is standing

:31:06.:31:08.

for the National Health Action party against the Health Secretary,

:31:09.:31:10.

Well, we can speak now to Steve Williams, who was one

:31:11.:31:14.

of those members kicked out of the party.

:31:15.:31:22.

You have been expelled from the Labour Party after nearly 50 years

:31:23.:31:28.

as a supporter, but you must have known that that was what would

:31:29.:31:31.

happen if you backed a rival candidate? I think it's very

:31:32.:31:36.

disappointing, Jo, to be honest with you. As you say, I have been a

:31:37.:31:41.

member of the Labour Party for 46 years, and I have been expelled from

:31:42.:31:44.

the Labour Party for actually doing my best to try to secure the outcome

:31:45.:31:48.

of defeating a Conservative MP, a member of Parliament for South West

:31:49.:31:55.

Surrey, who as Secretary of State for Health has done untold damage to

:31:56.:31:58.

the National Health Service. But you understand the parties rules,

:31:59.:32:04.

because you are a long-time member, and they're very clear, that if you

:32:05.:32:08.

publicly support a candidate running against the official Labour Party

:32:09.:32:12.

candidate, then you will be expelled? In fact it happened to Ken

:32:13.:32:16.

Livingstone many years ago when he ran for mayor? Well, what we are

:32:17.:32:22.

seeking to do, actually, is to get Labour candidate to stand down in

:32:23.:32:25.

the constituency. It is the overwhelming view of Labour Party

:32:26.:32:29.

members in South West Surrey that the candidate that has been selected

:32:30.:32:34.

for the South West Surrey constituency should be stood down.

:32:35.:32:40.

And your parties branch agreed to that, there was agreement locally

:32:41.:32:45.

for the Labour Party candidate to stand down, and was it the NEC who

:32:46.:32:49.

actually went over your heads? It was indeed. I have a letter from the

:32:50.:32:55.

head office of the Labour Party saying that I have been in and from

:32:56.:32:59.

the membership register of the Labour Party for actually trying to

:33:00.:33:06.

secure the return of a non-Conservative member of

:33:07.:33:11.

Parliament in South West Surrey. And this is happening all over the

:33:12.:33:14.

country. There are people who are seeing that it is appropriate for

:33:15.:33:20.

Labour Party members and supporters, and for Liberal Democrat members and

:33:21.:33:25.

supporters, and for Green members and supporters, in different parts

:33:26.:33:28.

of the country, to stand down their candidates, to stand aside, for the

:33:29.:33:33.

candidate who is best placed to defeat the Conservatives. There is a

:33:34.:33:40.

regressive alliance of the right, Ukip is supporting Conservative

:33:41.:33:44.

candidates in this election in order to defeat the left. So, why can't

:33:45.:33:52.

the progressive side of politics do the same? You can understand, from

:33:53.:33:56.

the point of view of the party leadership, and it's ruling

:33:57.:34:01.

executive, that this is the official opposition and it should be fielding

:34:02.:34:05.

candidates in every seat and should be able to win as many of those

:34:06.:34:09.

seats as possible. If you do what Ukip has done, to some extent, by

:34:10.:34:13.

agreeing to stand down candidates, you admit in the mind of the public

:34:14.:34:18.

that you cannot put up a proper opposition against the ruling party?

:34:19.:34:23.

Labour is the alternative party of government in this country, and I

:34:24.:34:27.

want to see Jeremy Corbyn in number 10 Downing Street, and it is

:34:28.:34:33.

precisely... And there are residents for the Labour Party standing down

:34:34.:34:39.

its candidates. In 1997, in Tatton, there was a deeply unpopular

:34:40.:34:42.

Conservative member of Parliament in Neil Hamilton, who has now moved

:34:43.:34:47.

over to Ukip, deeply unpopular member of Parliament, and the Labour

:34:48.:34:50.

Party and the Liberal Democrats stood down in Tatton in order to

:34:51.:34:58.

enable Martin bell to stand as a unity candidate. And we have got

:34:59.:35:02.

that unique opportunity in South West Surrey now, we've got the

:35:03.:35:05.

opportunity to defeat one of the most unpopular secretaries of State

:35:06.:35:10.

for health that we have had in this country, who has perpetrated a

:35:11.:35:13.

untold damage to the National Health Service. Will you reapply to join

:35:14.:35:19.

the Labour Party? Of course I will, the Labour Party is in my soul, I

:35:20.:35:24.

want to remain a member of the Labour Party. I didn't leave, I was

:35:25.:35:25.

thrown out. Caroline Lucas, joint leader

:35:26.:35:29.

of the Green Party, had been calling but yesterday claimed Labour

:35:30.:35:31.

and the Lib Dems had "betrayed" their voters, and the Green

:35:32.:35:38.

Party would now focus When we last spoke, I think you were

:35:39.:35:46.

at your conference in Bristol and you were quite enthusiastic about a

:35:47.:35:49.

Progressive Alliance. What has gone wrong? What has gone wrong is that

:35:50.:35:54.

the leadership people around Jeremy Corbyn have absolutely put the lid

:35:55.:35:57.

on this happening. I said it is a betrayal, and that is quite strong

:35:58.:36:02.

word, but it feels like, without some kind of co-operation in a

:36:03.:36:05.

handful of marginal seats, we know how the story ends come we know that

:36:06.:36:07.

we wake up on the 9th of June thinking, how on

:36:08.:36:21.

earth have we allowed a massive Tory landslide? So, there is a huge

:36:22.:36:24.

appetite for this with grassroots Tory members, as we have just seen

:36:25.:36:27.

with Steve Williams. What is so sad is that all of this excitement up

:36:28.:36:29.

and down the country, I have been speaking at meetings all across the

:36:30.:36:32.

country, huge amount of enthusiasm for it, but it has been stopped by

:36:33.:36:35.

the party leadership. So, if it is being stopped at a national level,

:36:36.:36:37.

could it still happen at a local level? I think the example of Steve

:36:38.:36:41.

Williams shows that they will not let it happen. People will get

:36:42.:36:47.

expelled. And this is not just about trying to get rid of the Tories,

:36:48.:36:50.

although it is that, but it is also about trying to return people to

:36:51.:36:54.

Parliament who will fight for a fairer electoral system so that we

:36:55.:36:57.

do not have to have all of these debates, so that people can vote for

:36:58.:37:01.

what they believe in. Over a million people voted Green in 2015, with a

:37:02.:37:06.

proportional system, we would have had 24 MPs, that would have been a

:37:07.:37:12.

better representation of views across the country. At the

:37:13.:37:16.

by-election in Richmond, who offered the Green Party a quarter of ?1

:37:17.:37:18.

million to stand aside in favour of the Lib Dems? I do not know the name

:37:19.:37:24.

of the person, I know of the incident but it happened after the

:37:25.:37:27.

decision had already been taken to stand down - and the money was not

:37:28.:37:31.

accepted. Any indication that we were standing down in order for

:37:32.:37:35.

money is categorically wrong, it happened after the decision was

:37:36.:37:37.

taken, and the money was not accepted. But somebody did offer

:37:38.:37:44.

?250,000? I believe so, that is my understanding. As joint leader of

:37:45.:37:48.

the party, somebody offers your party that amount of money and you

:37:49.:37:52.

do not know who it is? I don't remember the name. It went through

:37:53.:37:56.

our ethical checks, it did not pass our ethical checks, the money was

:37:57.:37:59.

not accepted. But your candidate did stand aside? Our candidate had

:38:00.:38:06.

already decided to stand aside, as has that candidate decided again,

:38:07.:38:08.

because what we had was the chance to oppose Zac Goldsmith, who had

:38:09.:38:13.

been running a very racist campaign in London, and we wanted to try to

:38:14.:38:19.

get somebody in there who was going to support electoral reform. Except,

:38:20.:38:25.

you will have seen the website which has a leak in internal document from

:38:26.:38:28.

your Richmond party, saying that party staff from the centre put

:38:29.:38:33.

pressure on local activists and said that there was, quote, an offer of a

:38:34.:38:38.

large donation conditional on the party demonstrating its desire for a

:38:39.:38:43.

Progressive Alliance? Andrew, this has all been completely exposed as

:38:44.:38:48.

being two or three annoyed people in the Kingston party, who did not

:38:49.:38:51.

agree with the decision to stand down. As a result, they put out a

:38:52.:38:56.

document which has been criticised, condemned, we looked into this,

:38:57.:39:00.

there was an independent investigation into it which

:39:01.:39:04.

absolutely said that there was no substance to the claims. So you're

:39:05.:39:07.

saying that the local chairman of the Kingston Green Party, and two

:39:08.:39:12.

other members, have made this up? I think they have either been misled

:39:13.:39:17.

themselves, or they've been misinformed, or somehow false

:39:18.:39:19.

information is in that document. That is what our council

:39:20.:39:26.

independently declared. One of them has already gone off and joined the

:39:27.:39:30.

Labour Party. I think this is quite important. It is not true. If this

:39:31.:39:35.

was true of another party... If it were true, Andrew... You would be

:39:36.:39:41.

the first to condemn that? I certainly would, and that's why I am

:39:42.:39:45.

so robustly challenging, as I have done all along the way, that what

:39:46.:39:49.

was in that report was absolutely wrong. The decision to stand down...

:39:50.:39:54.

I do not remember the name because I have never spoken to the person. You

:39:55.:39:59.

don't yet offered a quarter of a million every day! We turned it

:40:00.:40:04.

down, Andrew. They could welcome back and offer the money in a

:40:05.:40:08.

different context. You will need to know who that person is. The party

:40:09.:40:12.

knows who it is, I am very sorry, Andrew, I don't have that name. I

:40:13.:40:16.

came on to talk about the importance of defeating the Tories over going

:40:17.:40:22.

to be on course for a landslide victory, if we don't get our acts

:40:23.:40:25.

together on the left, and that is what I would love to talk about,

:40:26.:40:30.

because it's incredibly important! This is very important to clear up

:40:31.:40:34.

as well. I have cleared it up for you, Andrew, it is completely false!

:40:35.:40:43.

What if this money has come in in another way? I know perfectly well

:40:44.:40:46.

it hasn't because our chief executive is all over this, of

:40:47.:40:52.

course it hasn't! The order to stand aside apparently came on the

:40:53.:40:56.

instruction of the chief executive! It's completely false. The idea that

:40:57.:41:00.

we are spending minutes of valuable national our time talking about a

:41:01.:41:03.

report by three people who have absolutely categorically been shown

:41:04.:41:08.

not to be telling the truth, either by design or accident, is a real

:41:09.:41:12.

shame, because we should be talking about the fact that... One of them

:41:13.:41:16.

isn't because he has just joined the Labour Party! That could be a

:41:17.:41:21.

Progressive Alliance! It could but what I want to talk about is the

:41:22.:41:25.

fact that Theresa May is on course for a landslide victory, and that is

:41:26.:41:28.

bad for the people Labour says it stands for, it is certainly bad for

:41:29.:41:33.

progressive politics in this country as the kind of politics she will be

:41:34.:41:37.

putting in place is not just a hard Brexit, but also taking money out of

:41:38.:41:41.

our education system, our NHS is on its knees, the environment is

:41:42.:41:45.

nowhere in the debate, and has been so far, so I hope you will have me

:41:46.:41:49.

back tomorrow when we are launching our Environment Minister 5-4. I will

:41:50.:41:53.

have you back if you can remember that name! Andrew... -- launching

:41:54.:42:03.

our environment manifesto. You're not standing against Vince Cable in

:42:04.:42:07.

Twickenham, so there are still areas where you are pulling back a bit to

:42:08.:42:12.

allow a non-Tory to get in, is that right? Absolutely. How many seats

:42:13.:42:17.

will that be in? About ten or a dozen. And that will be largely in

:42:18.:42:21.

favour of Lib Dems? It is essentially when either the Lib Dems

:42:22.:42:26.

or Labour will commit to a fairer electoral system, one which does not

:42:27.:42:30.

give power to the government on less than 24% of the eligible vote. Would

:42:31.:42:38.

you stand aside? We will stand aside where there is a situation where a

:42:39.:42:44.

real Brexiteer, not a fly by night Brexiteer, is... Basically, who have

:42:45.:42:53.

changed their tune over the years. Like Theresa May! Yeah, actually, we

:42:54.:42:59.

are standing against Theresa May, actually. People who have campaigned

:43:00.:43:06.

with us for years, campaigned for Brexit, we will give them a free

:43:07.:43:08.

run. We will leave it there. During the election, our intrepid

:43:09.:43:12.

reporters will be out and about testing the mood of the nation

:43:13.:43:15.

with our ever scientific Moodbox. So, Adam, where has

:43:16.:43:17.

the mood taken you today? Hi, not very in trap pit today,

:43:18.:43:27.

because I am down by the River Dee in the City of Chester, and it's

:43:28.:43:30.

absolutely gorgeous. What a nice day. In the last election in 2015,

:43:31.:43:36.

the Labour candidate won by just a few votes over the Conservatives.

:43:37.:43:45.

And Ukip got 8%. Now, this time round, if Ukip voters perhaps voted

:43:46.:43:49.

for another party, or the Ukip candidate stood aside, that could

:43:50.:43:52.

have a crucial impact on the results. So we have taken the

:43:53.:43:56.

Moodbox out onto the streets of Chester to ask people, should the

:43:57.:44:01.

purple party pack up or fight on, now that Brexit seems to be

:44:02.:44:02.

happening? They're pretty much

:44:03.:44:06.

over now, aren't they? Their job is done, and we probably

:44:07.:44:10.

won't see very much of them now. Is that a Ukip balloon

:44:11.:44:13.

you've got on your pram? is that because you're

:44:14.:44:21.

a mega Ukip supporter? How do you think Ukip

:44:22.:44:27.

will do at this election? When he's 25, do you think the UK

:44:28.:44:33.

Independence Party will still exist? Er, unfortunately, I don't think it

:44:34.:44:45.

will, but I think if you're that passionate about your beliefs,

:44:46.:44:48.

I think they should fight on. The way Labour is at the moment,

:44:49.:44:53.

I think it's very vulnerable, and it's probably looking

:44:54.:44:55.

for a new party that could come How do you think Paul Nuttall,

:44:56.:44:58.

the new leader, is doing? Well, if I said something,

:44:59.:45:08.

it would be defamatory, wouldn't it? Well, there's nothing to

:45:09.:45:10.

say nice about him, is there? Hello, sir, what do

:45:11.:45:20.

you think about Ukip? Look at that, a decanter

:45:21.:45:23.

in the shape of a Stormtrooper. What do you think Ukip should do,

:45:24.:45:36.

pack up or fight on? Ukip are talking about things

:45:37.:45:51.

like banning the burqa and things like that -

:45:52.:45:54.

is that up your street? Covering your face and that,

:45:55.:45:56.

you just can't see people. So, you think they should fight

:45:57.:46:03.

on on issues like that? Yeah, fight on with

:46:04.:46:06.

issues like that. The Brexit vote has happened,

:46:07.:46:08.

we're leaving Europe, so their purpose has gone,

:46:09.:46:10.

and you can see them kind of scrambling around,

:46:11.:46:13.

appealing to far-right policies, and the only reason why

:46:14.:46:17.

they would stick around is so that something nastier doesn't follow,

:46:18.:46:20.

in my opinion. Are you like a professor

:46:21.:46:23.

of politics, or something? There we go, a few people think

:46:24.:46:25.

the party should fight on, but many, Our scientific mood box says it all.

:46:26.:46:50.

You're wasting your time and theirs. It is the short-term narrative.

:46:51.:46:53.

People are believing Theresa May. She's able to talk the talk and act

:46:54.:46:57.

tough on Brexit. When accept comes and she has to start walking the

:46:58.:47:02.

walk, when negotiations start, I think she'll begin to backslide. I'm

:47:03.:47:06.

confident that will happen. When she does, Ukip will become more relevant

:47:07.:47:09.

than ever before. It will be too late then. It's already on the

:47:10.:47:13.

slide. If you want to look at something more scientific, we only

:47:14.:47:16.

have to look at local elections last week. You lost every single council

:47:17.:47:21.

seat you were defending. Quite impressive from one point of view.

:47:22.:47:25.

That's a clear message from the electorate? We knew these elections

:47:26.:47:29.

would be the most tough we'd face. Did you think you'd lose every

:47:30.:47:34.

single council? I expect add real bad result. We knew these would be

:47:35.:47:38.

the most difficult local elections we were going to fight. They were

:47:39.:47:43.

made doubly difficult by the fact the Prime Minister called a general

:47:44.:47:48.

election. She did her impression the day before with the fight against

:47:49.:47:52.

Jean-Claude Juncker. That's politics. It was convenient. It made

:47:53.:47:59.

it very difficult for us. Look, politics is cyclical. It isn't just

:48:00.:48:02.

about the short-term but the long-term. If Ukip stays on the

:48:03.:48:06.

pitch, I believe it will prosper in future. It will be difficult to stay

:48:07.:48:10.

on the pitch. With regards to Brexit, people are believing Theresa

:48:11.:48:15.

May, in your own words. For now. In the meantime, you have to watch

:48:16.:48:19.

what's been happening within your own party? Aaron banks, your major

:48:20.:48:25.

donor says you've crashed the car. Douglas Carswell, your only MP until

:48:26.:48:33.

he threw in the towel. Did you ever think you'd hear Aaron Banks and

:48:34.:48:37.

Douglas Carswell agree on anything? No, you may have a point there.

:48:38.:48:41.

Seriously, this is all short-term thinking. What we need to do...

:48:42.:48:48.

Aaron Banks says you crashed the car, Douglas Carswell is gone. That

:48:49.:48:52.

doesn't matter. Politics will come back on to our turf. Ukip has to

:48:53.:48:57.

hold its nerve. Stay on the pitch and the future will be very bright,

:48:58.:49:01.

I'm sure. You lost all those council seats. These were local elections.

:49:02.:49:05.

That's because they don't see you as a party beyond Brexit. If it

:49:06.:49:09.

continues people brief Theresa May on the issue of coming out of the

:49:10.:49:13.

EU, you don't have anything to offer. Yes, you've put forward

:49:14.:49:16.

policies. But people aren't interested in you for those or not

:49:17.:49:20.

in any large numbers? Firstly, when she begins the backslide, I think

:49:21.:49:24.

she'll backslide on fisheries. There may be some deal on freedom of

:49:25.:49:29.

movement. I think we may end up paying this divorce bill. People

:49:30.:49:33.

will feel betrayed. Where will these people go? Not lemme or Green or

:49:34.:49:38.

Labour. They'll come back to Ukip. What can Ukip do? In what sense? In

:49:39.:49:44.

terms of changing her direction on Brexit. If you haven't any local

:49:45.:49:50.

council I wills. We have. Or enough local councillors or MPs, if you

:49:51.:49:53.

don't get any in the general election how will you do it? How did

:49:54.:49:57.

we put David Cameron under pressure to give us the referendum in the

:49:58.:50:03.

first place. Ukip goes up in the poles, stays strong, elect otherly

:50:04.:50:06.

viable. I believe that will be the case in years to come. There isn't a

:50:07.:50:12.

broader offer from Ukip on Brexit? If you look, when you see our

:50:13.:50:16.

manifesto, it will be radical, forward thinking. We'll lead the

:50:17.:50:20.

debate. I think our manifesto in many ways will be a decade ahead of

:50:21.:50:25.

its time. I guarantee the policies we put forward now will no doubt

:50:26.:50:30.

about the policies of the mainstream political parties or Government

:50:31.:50:34.

policy in ten years' time. One of your councillors in Essex quit your

:50:35.:50:38.

party saying it was a spent force. He was defecting a Jeremy Corbyn's

:50:39.:50:42.

Labour Party. People are going in all ebb directions from Ukip. That's

:50:43.:50:48.

the first I've heard. Jack Parsons, elected to award in Clacton. You

:50:49.:50:52.

need to keep up. It is a strange move, isn't it, I suppose. Then

:50:53.:50:57.

again, we had a Conservative councillor defect to us yesterday.

:50:58.:51:01.

Ukip has to hold its nerve. This is, look... This will be a difficult

:51:02.:51:03.

election. There's no doubt about that. You're not going to win any

:51:04.:51:09.

seats? We may well win a couple. We're targeting sincebly. Focusing

:51:10.:51:15.

our resources in terms of manpower, financial resources on a small

:51:16.:51:18.

number of seats. You think two at most? Look, do you know, we could

:51:19.:51:22.

get over the line in a number of seats this time round. Maybe our

:51:23.:51:26.

vote share won't be as high as last but maybe we'll get over the line.

:51:27.:51:29.

What I have to do is keep this party on the pitch. You just said, though,

:51:30.:51:36.

that you are waiting for Theresa May to backslide. She won't keep to her

:51:37.:51:41.

commitments in terms of the sort of Brexit you'd like to see. Why are

:51:42.:51:44.

you telling large parts of the country to vote Tory? Well, we're

:51:45.:51:49.

also telling people in certain seats to go out and vote Labour. Why are

:51:50.:51:55.

you telling them to vote for a Tory Party you believe won't police

:51:56.:51:58.

officer deliver? These are people who are true and real precious

:51:59.:52:02.

tears. Theresa May never was. She wanted us to remain in the European

:52:03.:52:06.

Union. You're asking your supporters to vote for her? There are specific

:52:07.:52:11.

seats with specific sitting MPs where we'll stand aside to ensure we

:52:12.:52:16.

get the Brexit we want. It is quite a moral thing to do, really. It is

:52:17.:52:19.

about putting your country above your party. According to Professor

:52:20.:52:24.

Stephen Fisher at Oxford Euan very it is, the scale of Ukip's collapse

:52:25.:52:30.

will be an important factor in the scale of Theresa May's victory. Do

:52:31.:52:34.

you accept that? I think our vote share will go down. There's no doubt

:52:35.:52:38.

about that. We're contesting this election on a sticky wicket. Because

:52:39.:52:42.

the Prime Minister's being believed at this present moment in time. If

:52:43.:52:47.

there's a move between us and the Conservatives, you've already seen

:52:48.:52:51.

that in the polls, it will play an important factor. We have to target

:52:52.:52:55.

sensibly on a certain number of seats and try to get over the line.

:52:56.:52:59.

Do you think you'll be the last leader of Ukip? No. Are you

:53:00.:53:02.

finished? Yeah. Thank you. Now, not every politician can

:53:03.:53:04.

command primetime on The One Show, or even a slot

:53:05.:53:07.

on the Daily Politics. So, what have they been up to back

:53:08.:53:09.

on the election trail? Here's Emma Vardy with

:53:10.:53:12.

our campaign round-up. Tim Farron boarded

:53:13.:53:15.

a resucue hovercraft as he launched the Liberal Democrats

:53:16.:53:18.

campaign in Burnham-On-Sea. He was taken for a ride

:53:19.:53:22.

in the Lib Dems former heartlands of the south-west where the party's

:53:23.:53:25.

hoping to resurface. Today, the Liberal Democrats

:53:26.:53:27.

are pledging to spend an extra Angela Rayner, are we talking

:53:28.:53:31.

about 50 children, 5,000, Angela Rayner spoke to LBC

:53:32.:53:36.

about Labour's promise ensuring no But when asked how many children

:53:37.:53:42.

that would help, it appeared the Shadow Education Minister hadn't

:53:43.:53:53.

done her homework on the figures. Go on then, if you've

:53:54.:53:58.

got it, give it me. It's a substantial

:53:59.:54:01.

number, go for it! Mysterious pair of legs

:54:02.:54:03.

without a body, perhaps? Seems Labour's Kate Hoey, or one of

:54:04.:54:08.

her team, attempted to Photoshop her Liberal Democrat rival George Turner

:54:09.:54:12.

out of the picture only to make one of those digital altering

:54:13.:54:16.

schoolboy errors. And, look who's campaigning

:54:17.:54:20.

in the New Forest. Desmond Swain took Maggie

:54:21.:54:23.

for a ride and a furry friend. These steak and haggis pies

:54:24.:54:28.

were the product of an SNP campaign visit in East Dunbartonshire

:54:29.:54:39.

with John Nicholson. After lanching Labour's campaign,

:54:40.:54:43.

Jeremy Corbyn found solidarity in song with a busker

:54:44.:54:54.

on the streets of Ashton-under-Lyne. # Darling, darling, stand by me #

:54:55.:54:56.

Oh, stand by me # Oh stand.... Now, throughout the election

:54:57.:55:07.

campaign, we're taking a look at some of the smaller parties

:55:08.:55:09.

hoping to make gains Today we're looking at the Women's

:55:10.:55:11.

Equality Party, who are currently The Women's Equality Party

:55:12.:55:15.

was founded in 2015. They're calling for equality

:55:16.:55:19.

in politics, business and executive They want to close the gender pay

:55:20.:55:26.

gap, saying that women earn 52% They're calling for equal maternity

:55:27.:55:31.

and paternity leave. And they want to see gender

:55:32.:55:37.

stereotypes challenged We're joined now from Leeds

:55:38.:55:39.

by their leader, Sophie Walker. Welcome to the Daily Politics.

:55:40.:55:52.

Hello. What is it your pushing for that women in politics aren't

:55:53.:55:57.

already tackling? We've women select committees, ministers, women's

:55:58.:56:02.

issues are debated. Why aren't you backing the party that best

:56:03.:56:04.

represents women's rights? Because we've much better policies and much

:56:05.:56:11.

better candidates. Actually our whole system looks at it

:56:12.:56:15.

differently. We're offering voters a better, different option. One that

:56:16.:56:18.

flips politics on its head, if you like. What we do is we design a

:56:19.:56:23.

system that works for the furthest first. If you look at the

:56:24.:56:29.

experiences of the single biggest discriminated against group, women,

:56:30.:56:34.

in all of our diversity, you create a political system and policies that

:56:35.:56:38.

work better for everyone. Do you not think some of the existing politics,

:56:39.:56:42.

we can name the leaders of the various parties at the moment, the

:56:43.:56:46.

Prime Minister, Leanne Wood, Nicola Sturgeon, Caroline Lucas, they are

:56:47.:56:51.

doing quite well in of themselves. Are they not promoting from within

:56:52.:56:55.

the system the change you want? No, that's why we're here. We're

:56:56.:56:58.

bringing new and fresh voices in our candidates. Many of whom have never

:56:59.:57:03.

done politics before and are providing the interesting and

:57:04.:57:05.

different backgrounds which would be so valuable in Westminster. But,

:57:06.:57:09.

we're also looking really specifically and closely at how we

:57:10.:57:15.

redesign, for example, investment in the economy. We will be prioritising

:57:16.:57:20.

a look at how you invest in the social infrastructure of this

:57:21.:57:24.

country. Time and time again, Chancellor after Chancellor stands

:57:25.:57:27.

up and says here's a great idea to get the economy going. Let's invest

:57:28.:57:32.

in physical infrastructure, housing, roads, bridges. What we're saying,

:57:33.:57:36.

how about if we look at the other side of that? How about we invest in

:57:37.:57:43.

free childcare? That would have a transformative impact on lives of

:57:44.:57:46.

women right across this country. You'd increase your tax base. You

:57:47.:57:50.

would decrees the number of out of work benefits. That would have a

:57:51.:57:55.

knock on effect for everybody in a very positive way. We haven't time

:57:56.:58:01.

to go through costing. In your manifesto you open with the line

:58:02.:58:05.

nowhere in the world do women enjoy full equality. Do you really think

:58:06.:58:09.

that the position of women in western liberal democracies can be

:58:10.:58:12.

compared to the situation experienced by women around the

:58:13.:58:14.

world in the way you've presented it there? First of all, that's not our

:58:15.:58:20.

manifesto, it is our policy document we launched in 2015. Our manifesto

:58:21.:58:24.

is coming shortly. You stand by that? Absolutely. This is a classic

:58:25.:58:30.

case of what aboutry. We're not allowed to talk about women's

:58:31.:58:33.

equality unless we start from somewhere else. Setting aside,

:58:34.:58:38.

frankly, if you want a feminist approach to foreign policy you have

:58:39.:58:43.

to have more fen Nices in Parliament, it is very clear when

:58:44.:58:47.

you look at the statistics here in the UK, women don't have the same

:58:48.:58:55.

options. They outnumber women by Two to one in Parliament. Women suffer

:58:56.:58:59.

disproportionately from austerity mesh Ewings. They paid ?86 out of

:59:00.:59:05.

every ?100 saved. Sophie, we're going to have to finish it there.

:59:06.:59:08.

We've run out of time. There's just time before we go

:59:09.:59:09.

to find out the answer to our quiz. Crime writer James Patterson has

:59:10.:59:12.

joined forces with which political figure to write a thriller set

:59:13.:59:16.

in the White House? The one o'clock news is starting

:59:17.:59:18.

over on BBC One now. Jo and I will be

:59:19.:59:27.

here at noon tomorrow with all the big political stories

:59:28.:59:29.

of the day.

:59:30.:59:32.

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn are joined by Ukip leader Paul Nuttall to discuss the latest political news ahead of June's general election. Plus analysis of Labour's school funding plans and an interview with Sophie Walker, leader of the Women's Equality Party.


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