Browse content similar to 14/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
She's been Prime Minister for a year, and what a year it's been. | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
So what does the next 12 months have in store for Theresa May? | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
And can the Government do all the things it wants to do? | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Train drivers on Southern Rail vote for fresh strikes | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary accuses Labour of colluding | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
with the unions to bring misery to passengers. | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is as likely to be seen addressing big | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
rallies, as he is wondering through the corridors of power. | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
But do street protests really bring about political change? | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
And, as the French President welcomes his American | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
counterpart on Bastille Day, we speak to a leading French | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
politician about the rise of Emmanuel Macron, Brexit | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
and the future of Anglo-French relations. | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the duration | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
a double act to rival May and Corbyn, Barnier and Davis, | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
That's Fraser Nelson, editor of The Spectator, | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
and Anoosh Chakelian, from The New Statesman - | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
So, it's the end of the week in which Theresa May celebrated, | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
if that's the right word, her first twelve months | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
It hasn't exactly gone to plan, understatement of the year. Nothing | :01:58. | :02:10. | |
has gone to plan for her for the last four or five months. But she's | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
still here which is more than people thought on election night. We all | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
know that she is going to resign, unlike Gordon Brown who we thought | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
would hang on, everyone knows she will walk the plank at some point | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
but nobody knows who will succeed her. Until the party makes up its | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
mind, she will stay. She is like an undead Prime Minister, it's very | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
strange. When do you think the walking the plank will be? If we | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
take that view. She's given herself a few years. I think she might be | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
right. We don't know the exact deadline. Her weakness is keeping | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
her in place. No Conservative MP wants to destabilise things when | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is at a high, partly because of Theresa May's weakness. | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
Would it be better to admin that it was a mistake to call an election? I | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
don't think anybody thinks it was the right decision. She might have | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
meant that if things went a planet might have been a good decision but | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
it was obviously the biggest self-inflicted wound in the history | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
of the Conservative Party. She has probably inflicted more damage on | :03:30. | :03:37. | |
party then anybody since Tony Blair. What have we learnt about politics | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
in the last few months? That you shouldn't take anything for granted. | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
As soon as you start attacking someone, personal attacks like in | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
the campaign, the public can react differently and it might backfire. | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
Should there have been more of a mea culpa? She said that she shared a | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
tear, which for her is a big deal and then she claimed that she | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
immediately thought of the message that the electorate had sent. There | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
was no sense of that. It was a staged mea culpa. A lesser Prime | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
Minister would have quit and walk away as David Cameron did after the | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
Brexit foe. She is sticking with it because she feels a sense of duty to | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
the party and she deserves credit for that. Sense of duty is | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
important. She is the great survivor. Of course, her decision to | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
stand for the leadership in the first place was quite brave. Nobody | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
wanted to inherit a Brexit negotiations. But she had felt for a | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
while that she could become leader. Brexit negotiations, if we go back | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
to Lancaster house and that speech, is it going to continue to be a | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
template? I think so. The Lancaster house speech was a very persuasive | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
template. Only 12 weeks ago, we were looking at the local election | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
results and everything she did seem to have been vindicated. We have | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
learned how quickly politics can shift and certainties vanish. What | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
does it say about support? That it is very soft and flaky on both | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
sides? And things can change. It's almost as though the Conservatives | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
prospects have flipped over and reflect what Labour was suffering | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
before the election. It could flick over again. Is she human now? She is | :05:37. | :05:45. | |
never going to be a great raconteur with her emotions on her sleeve. The | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
public see her for what she is, someone who works very hard with a | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
huge sense of duty but finds it hard to say, come and be my friend. Other | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
politicians do that. It doesn't matter because she won't be standing | :06:01. | :06:02. | |
for election again. So, Theresa May's second year | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
in Downing Street is now underway. If you believe Jeremy Corbyn - | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
then the government is clapped out and he'll have her job | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
before Christmas. But allies of the Prime Minister | :06:12. | :06:12. | |
say that she can carry on for years. So, if you'll excuse the | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
naval metaphor, let's take a look at what's in the offing | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
for Theresa May's government A top priority is of course | :06:19. | :06:20. | |
to sail the ship of state Face-to-face talks between | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
the Brexit Secretary David Davis and the EU's Chief Negotiator | :06:27. | :06:32. | |
will resume this Monday. Yesterday, the government | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
introduced the Repeal Bill, this will overturn the 1972 | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
legislation that took the UK into the Common Market and also | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
convert EU law into UK law. The opposition parties are keen | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
to amend and oppose the bill - the Liberal Democrat leader | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Tim Farron even said that the passage of the bill | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
will be "hell" for the government. And there are seven other bills | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
related to Brexit on the horizon - in particular, the Customs Bill, | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
the Immigration Bill In the autumn, the Chancellor Philip | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
Hammond will present his He'll be under pressure to yield | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
to calls for him to end the 1% cap But the government's | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
economic strategy got a boost from the independent Office | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
for Budget Responsibility yesterday. The fiscal watchdog suggested | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
that ending austerity and increasing spending could pose a "significant | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
risk" to the public finances. And in the Queen's Speech we got | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
a sense of the other priorities of the government - | :07:35. | :07:46. | |
including a consultation on social care, an industrial strategy | :07:47. | :07:48. | |
to boost growth and a review Joining me now is Conservative MP, | :07:49. | :07:50. | |
Kwasi Kwarteng, who is Parliamentary Private Secretary | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
to the Chancellor Philip Hammond. And from Middlesbrough we are joined | :07:55. | :08:02. | |
by Shadow Transport Secretary Andy McDonald. Hell for the government? | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
Parliamentary guerrilla warfare. What are you going to do about it? | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
Tim Farron has his own agenda and he was the leader of a campaign that | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
didn't do very well. Both the Conservative Party and the Labour | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
Party are committed to Brexit. I think we can get a decent majority | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
for repealing the European Community zag across the house. It'll be | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
difficult but I think we can do that. I think Tim Farron is not | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
reflecting the mood of the House of Commons. He has 12 MPs, he resigned | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
because he did so badly and I don't think he's in a position to talk | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
about guerrilla warfare. I think we will be able to get things through. | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
The fact that he is promising it, against a backdrop of the Article 50 | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
legislation, knowing that there are a group of Conservative MPs looking | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
to oppose a bill like a rip your bill at least with amendments to it. | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
That might make life very difficult and water down the bill. Do you | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
accept that? We had about nine votes over the Article 50 legislation. | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
I've never seen anything like it. If you look at the division nose and | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
saw the Conservative rebels, there were very few of them. The | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
majorities we secured were much more safe than people anticipated. I | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
agree that the situation now is more difficult but I'd be such prize to | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
see the number of rebels that I've read about. I don't think it would | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
be as many as 15. The party is quite united and determined to see us | :09:46. | :09:57. | |
through this process. But not without amendments, changes, | :09:58. | :09:59. | |
frustration in the Bills. You only have to look at the opposition. | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
Labour have promised to amend it. We've got the Liberal Democrats and | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
the SNP saying similar things. 15 MPs is not a massive number. The | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
odds are stacked against you. I don't think it is as high as 15 and | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
I've given the reasons why. You assume that the opposition is united | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
but we know that there are Labour MPs who voted for Brexit and people | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
like Caroline Flint who don't want freedom of movement and are | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
representing constituencies where the majority voted to leave. I don't | :10:31. | :10:35. | |
think it's as simple as you suggest. Let's ask Andy McDonald on the | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
Labour side, welcome to the programme, talking on the repeal | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
bill specifically, you are asking for a whole range of concessions. | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
The government probably won't give you everything that you want. In all | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
likelihood, are you just going to vote against the repeal Bill? I | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
think we'll be voting for our amendments but I think the principle | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
of the repeal bill is accepted but it's up on what terms and what comes | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
afterwards. We've set out very clearly, embracing David Davis's own | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
words of the exact same benefits and making sure that we are still | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
parties to important European organisations that have served as | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
well and it's absolutely imperative that we do not throw the baby out | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
with the bath water and we don't throw away 40 years of benefits. Are | :11:27. | :11:34. | |
those red lines? For Labour. If you listen to Keir Starmer, who is | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
shadowing on the Brexit side for Labour, they want to see the | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
incorporation of the European Charter of fundamental rights, that | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
means that you can't vote for the repeal bill as it stands. We will | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
see. I think we've got to have pragmatic and sensible approach to | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
this. What does that mean? Theresa May obviously recognises the | :11:59. | :12:01. | |
weakness of her own position and is trying to reach out to other parties | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
to help her out. That, for me, signals that there is some sense | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
that there is going to be some element of compromise. On what, | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
though? That's too early for me to say. The bill was published | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
yesterday. But we've heard Keir Starmer on the European Charter of | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
fundamental rights. Is that a red line for Keir Starmer and Labour? He | :12:26. | :12:34. | |
will make that clear. I'm not going to step into his shoes and say that | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
or not. We need pragmatic views on what can be achieved so we don't | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
leave the European Union and the impact of it making our people much | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
worse off. We've got to give people the chance to make some progress on | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
these hugely important areas for hours. To start shouting the odds at | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
this stage, I'm afraid, that's where the Tories got into difficulties in | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
the first place by having such an intransigence of view with their | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
European partners, rather than saying let's negotiate. Let's put | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
that to Kwasi. We don't know exactly the areas that they are going to try | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
and change and amend but they are obviously going to try and do it. If | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
we look at the European Charter of fundamental rights, would you have | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
way on that? That's way above my pay grade. Let's look at the actual bill | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
and see what the amendments are. The fact is, to say that the opposition | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
is completely united is false. We saw Chuka Umunna put down an | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
amendment and 49 Labour MPs voted in favour of that. A large portion of | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
the party didn't. Before you move on, I want a savoury clearly that | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
you've got a very simplified picture of the parliamentary arithmetic and | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
there are splits on the Labour side and I think the Conservative Party | :13:59. | :14:01. | |
is more united than you have assumed and I think we'll be able to get | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
something out of it. Let's talk about the Labour dilemma. It is true | :14:06. | :14:13. | |
that Caroline Flint is very keen to emphasise to you and other Labour | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
colleagues that the party must stick with what it promised which is | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
leaving the single market because you promised to end freedom of | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
movement and leave PE you in the way that her constituents would like to | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
see. That is at complete odds with the constituents of Keir Starmer or | :14:32. | :14:41. | |
Jeremy Kyle Britain or -- or Jeremy Kyle been all Emily Thornberry. How | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
can you satisfy both? The vote was very close. The discussion has two B | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
about securing the benefits of the single market is as David Davies | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
pointed out. If it comes to freedom of movement, we accept that goes if | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
you leave the single market. What comes in its place? It is the | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
ability to look at migration and have a policy that serves the | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
economy in our interests. We can do that very sensibly. It doesn't mean | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
pulling up the drawbridge. It means having an active immigration policy | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
where people are welcomed into our country to help as in the areas | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
where we need their skills and abilities. A very sensible attitude. | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
I will bring in Andy McDonald. How difficult is this going to be for | :15:34. | :15:40. | |
both parties to pull off? The problems are similar, all of them | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
have MPs who represent constituents who would rather stay in for | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
financial or cultural reasons and they have constituents who voted to | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
leave. Kwasi talk about Labour being divided. It is divide on Brexit, | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
but, what it is united in, is make things as difficult as possible for | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
a very weak Government and the Tories shown underest mate that. Is | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
the Repeal Bill going to be the place where that opposition is going | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
to come to the fore, the fight against the Conservatives and in | :16:17. | :16:19. | |
some people's minds the fight against Brexit. It is an opportunity | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
for Labour to try to make common cause of Tory rebel, it doesn't | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
matter if it is about the EU or parking fine, anything, you would | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
take a chance to inflict a defeat, or think of something nobody thought | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
of before, the provision of abortion for women in Northern Ireland, you | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
take something like that and try and get a concession, the repeal bill is | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
misnamed. It is not the great any more. It is taking regulation and | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
making it into British law. It's the great regulation bill if you like. | :16:52. | :16:54. | |
Because there is so much it creates opportunities to embarrass is | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
Government. Before we move on, what is more important do you and your | :16:59. | :17:02. | |
Labour colleague, getting rid of this Conservative Government, or | :17:03. | :17:04. | |
seeing through the Brexit negotiations? Well, both. They are | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
both important. But... You might use the Brexit negotiation to get rid of | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
this Government? Well, I mean, Theresa May thought she was going to | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
have this massive mandate for her to do as she wish, and that is not | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
going to happen. She knows that, that is why she is in difficulty. | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
Not bringing anything to the floor of the House of Commons because she | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
knows she have the Dell's own job to progress anything. We will be acting | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
in the best interests of country and making sure we get the best possible | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
bill we can and it addresses the needs of our people. For goodness' | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
sake, what else should we do? Let us move on to the economy, Philip | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
Hammond will give his autumn budget, if you are going to listen to some | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
of the voices inside the Cabinet, and other Tory backbenchers, who are | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
asking for the 1% public sector pay cap to be lifted, is that something | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
you can support. Certainly we won't rewrite the budget half way through | :18:01. | :18:02. | |
the year, there will be a budgetary event as you suggested. We have had | :18:03. | :18:09. | |
discussion about pay cap. I don't have any idea what will be in the | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
budget. It was important the Government held the line. Deficit | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
reduction is important, people understand that, we have done a | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
long, very well in that, over the last seven year, it has gone from 50 | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
billion to 50 billion. That is important, and the idea that if a | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
Labour Government came in, we would see further progress on this, is not | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
correct. It is fanciful. The IFS have said that Labour's plans would | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
cost ?100 billion more, would add to the deficit. ?100 billion oh the | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
course of a five year Parliament. That is a lot of money, a lot of | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
debt. The Office for Budget Responsibility suggested that | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
fatigue and increased spending could post a significant risk to the | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
public finance, does that not mow blow a hole your economic argument? | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
At least we set out with some, in some detail what our spending plans | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
w and where the money would come from, we heard nothing from the Tory | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
party, and look, they missed their target, they have done since 2010 | :19:12. | :19:16. | |
and they keep putting them back. I am asking about your economic | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
argument, because if the Office for Budget Responsibility is saying that | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
spending to, if you like, mitigate the effects of austerity and | :19:27. | :19:29. | |
increasing spending are going to pose a significant risk particularly | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
with some the uncertainties round Brexit, is that a responsible | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
economic argument for Labour to be putting forward? Well is it really | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
responsible to have a plan where by our nurses are going, working flat | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
out, an not having sufficient money to get through the week, where | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
families are ?1400 a year worse off, as a result of austerity, while | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
giving the tax breaks to the very very richest in our society. There | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
is something morally bankrupt about that and there has to be a better | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
distribution of the wealth of nation. Let me put that to Kwasi. | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
Morally bankrupt he say, isn't the proof in the pudding the result of | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
the election, because you are not listening, to the public, when it | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
comes to things like pay, and cost of living and look at rates of | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
inflation, hitting 3%, squeeze on people's pay now, you know, it is a | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
big cut, the average pay is about 1.8% pay rise, 3% inflation, people | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
can't afford, things in the way they could. You need to change your | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
policy S Three things to that. If you look at the economic management | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
we have had since 2010. We have reduced the deficit by two thirds. I | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
am talking about now. It is is a broader debate. If we don't have a | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
decent economy, people will suffer far more, than if we have a well run | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
economy, that is self evident. That is self evident. People are | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
saying... If we look at the alternative, we have the record | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
numbers of. Employment, the lowest unemployment rate 40 year, we have | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
reduced the deficit by two-third and we have over the last seven years on | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
the compounded annual basis we have grown faster than every other | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
country in Europe. How do you... I am establishing with you, I | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
understand that. This is a God record. We accept that there are | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
difficulties in terms of rising living costs, but, what I would say | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
is the alternative f you go down a Labour route you will increase the | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
debt, you will increase you could increase inflation, and you could | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
increase interest rates and that would be very damaging to people on | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
lower incomes. Andy McDonald? That is ludicrous, more pain to inflict | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
on the most vulnerable and worse off in society. I will challenge Kwasi | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
to come to my constituency and come into some of the territories where | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
people are really suffering on this Tory regime. They are having the | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
toughest of times and yet we sit back and think this all in the | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
garden is Rosie, it isn't. For many millions in the country and for him | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
to suggest this is a success story, I would hate to see what failure | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
would look like, this has been a miserable time for thousands and | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
millions of people, right across this land and it is about time the | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
Tories woke up to that. There is a huge outpouring and embracing of | :22:25. | :22:27. | |
Labour's message to say we can order society in a totally different way | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
and we cannot simply go on pandering to the richest in oat who can afford | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
to pay a little more. A quick response, we were told you are not | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
deaf as a government. Frazer will know the richest 1% are paying more | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
as a proportion of tax. Is that making nurses feel better or | :22:46. | :22:48. | |
teachers feel better about the cost of living? Something I have accepted | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
the cost of living is an issue, we have address it with regards to the | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
personal allowance, we more than doubled that. The wait you pay tax | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
is higher now, than was ever the case in the past. Thank you both | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
very much. Briefly, is this where the argument is going to be putting | :23:05. | :23:08. | |
Brexit to one side slightly, looking at the economic tussle between the | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
two parties? Yes it will be about fairness. The Tories have a strong | :23:13. | :23:18. | |
story to tell. Look at whose incomes have gone up, whose have gone done. | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
It is richest whose incomes have fallen the most. The Conservatives | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
have been progressive. Those at the bottom have been protected. Is that | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
how you see? It The argument for austerity has been dropped. She | :23:34. | :23:38. | |
didn't make it a priority so it is difficult for them to bring it back | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
to the top of the agenda again. Thank owe both P | :23:43. | :23:43. | |
Yesterday Jeremy Corbyn met the EU's Brexit negotiator in Brussels | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
and to get into his good books he gave him an Arsenal shirt. | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
So our question for today is, what was written on the back? | :23:52. | :23:53. | |
or d) Seumas, I'm not sure this is a great idea. | :23:54. | :24:09. | |
At the end of the show Fraser and Anoosh | :24:10. | :24:11. | |
With we are saying goodbye to Kwasi Kwarteng. | :24:12. | :24:21. | |
Train drivers on Southern Rail have voted for fresh | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
strikes over the summer, after rejecting a pay | :24:24. | :24:25. | |
Govia Thameslink had offered staff a four-year pay deal worth nearly | :24:26. | :24:28. | |
But the drivers' union Aslef has announced three days of strikes | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
at the start of August, after its members voted | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
Meanwhile, the Transport Secretary, Chris Grayling, has announced | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
a ?13 million fine for the train company for the disruption | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
And in the Commons yesterday, he also took aim at the Labour Party. | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
Let's be clear about what's been done today, I have, for months, | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
said the problems on this railway are not purely down to industrial | :24:53. | :24:57. | |
But, I'm also very clear, Mr Speaker, and so is Chris Gibb's | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
report, that the prime responsibility for the trouble | :25:02. | :25:03. | |
on that network in the last few months has come from trade unions, | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
fighting the battles of 30 years ago, and still they get support | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
from the Labour Party, and the reality is it is | :25:10. | :25:12. | |
the Labour Party and the unions colluding to bring trouble | :25:13. | :25:14. | |
Well, Andy McDonald is still with us - he was opposite Chris Grayling | :25:15. | :25:23. | |
And from Tunbridge Wells we're joined by Conservative MP | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
Huw Merriman, who represents the Bexhill and Battle | :25:27. | :25:28. | |
We did ask Aslef - the train drivers' union - | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
if anyone was available for interview, but no one was. | :25:32. | :25:40. | |
Delighted you are here. We heard Chris Grayling saying Labour was | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
colluded with the union over this industrial action, do you support | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
the industrial action? That is not true. And if Chris Grayling has any | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
evidence of this terrible lie he is trying to perpetuate, let him come | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
forward with it. He makes it up. It is not true there has been that sort | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
of discussion with the trade unions at all. Do you support the | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
industrial action though? Well, I support passengers in their bid to | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
have a railway that is safe, and secure and accessible. You do | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
support the industrial action It find it staggering that the Tories | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
are prepared to compromise on safety when it is clear we need a second | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
member of crew on that, every train, who is critically trained in safety. | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
We have seen evidence of it, look at the Watford issue months ago, driver | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
incapacitated, who led the passengers safely away from that | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
train? It was the guard. And these people are talking about taking | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
guards off trains and having them depart stations without that safety | :26:51. | :26:53. | |
critical person onboard. It is plain. It is a dangerous game. I | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
want and answer, do you support the industrial actionsome I do support | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
the industrial action, because it is standing up for passengers, for | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
safety, for accessibility, these are things that we all should be | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
standing up for, instead of compromising on it and putting | :27:12. | :27:15. | |
people at risk. I wish Tories would wake up and realise that is what the | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
people want, and it isn't beyond the wit to Rossiter a train to make sure | :27:21. | :27:24. | |
that it is properly staffed, in terms of not only driver, which they | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
can't do because they didn't recruit enough or assess what was available, | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
and making sure that second critical person is onboard. Right. It is is a | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
simple matter. You don't care about passenger safety Hugh merry man? I | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
do. I commute from East Sussex to Parliament, so of course I care | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
about my safety and my constituent, this strike is about a rejection of | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
a pay rise, this is not a strike based on the technology, that is the | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
overtime ban, so for Andy McDonald to talk about whether it is morally | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
wrong for people to be given big pay rises versus 1% for nurses and not | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
condemn a strike with a 23% pay rise has been reject is hypocrisy. It | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
isn't just about safety it is about pay rise, why should Aslef go on | :28:17. | :28:22. | |
strike when they have rejected a 24% pay rise taking salaries from | :28:23. | :28:29. | |
?39,000 to 60,000? Well, you have to get the detail of that, this | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
franchise... That is a massive pay rise. Hang on, hang on, it | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
predicated on the basis that people work their overtime, days off, do we | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
sensibly want to have a railway system that is run where people are | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
working six and seven days a week? This is crazy. As far, hang on, let | :28:46. | :28:51. | |
us be clear about what was being offered, because as I understand it, | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
the pay offer would have taken the base salary, from 39,000 to just | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
over 60,000, for the existing 35 hour week, four days a week. | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
Well, you are going to have to have Aslef come on and give you their | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
details. It is not a seven day week, which is what you said? The basis if | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
you are running a railway on overtime, how mad is that? You | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
should have enough people properly employed to do the proper working | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
week and not rely on people to turn up. Chris Gibbs said so, if you, the | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
Gibb report says a so. Let us go back to Hugh, because there was | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
overwhelming support for rejecting that pay rise, so if there was | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
overwhelming support for it, the grievances must be big. We have to | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
be clear, this rejection has been on pay, the overtime ban that is in | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
place is about the technology, so this is purely about pay. And it | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
can't be right when pay is only going up by 1.8% that a 24% pay rise | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
can be rejected. I would urge the drivers to think about my | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
constituents, commuters who are not earning like like this doing more | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
than 35 hours a week and can't get to work and are losing their jobs | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
for their commute, or not seeing their families. Families. It is | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
fair. Andy McDonald needs to think about all worker, that may belong to | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
a use one that subsidises the Labour Party. | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
What about the company? Do they not take responsibility for the | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
appalling service that they have put out on a daily basis? They have just | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
been penalised by ?13 million, their share under the contract for | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
cancellations. What's been made clear under the independent report | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
is the primary cause of the appalling performance has actually | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
been the unions. The ?13 million is a small proportion of the blame, the | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
big proportion lies with the unions for going on strike where they can't | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
justify it. The new technology has been deemed safe. Its on-board on | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
13% of the network and has for decades. The unions reject that and | :31:08. | :31:14. | |
have rejected it continuously. I hosted a debate not long ago where | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
the whole safety argument was challenged. By the unions | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
continually in the way that Andy Macdonald has stated. Until that is | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
resolved, those actions are going to continue. I was one of the people | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
there. At that stage, the unions were demanding that the independent | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
rail safety regulator gave his opinion. I was keen for that as | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
well. He did so and he said it has been used for decades and is safe | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
across the country and safe on Southern rail. As soon as that came | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
out, it was deemed to be a whitewash. There is always just | :31:52. | :31:56. | |
another excuse as to why the strike is going on. There's no logic in | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
this. It leads me to believe that that is collusion between the unions | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
and labour. Andy Macdonald has rejected that. They are messing | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
around with my constituents lives and it is incredibly shellfish. The | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
report did find that union action was the primary cause for the | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
network failure. The unions have called it a slap on the wrist. Do | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
you accept that? Who paid him? Who paid Chris Gibb? GTR. He supposed to | :32:29. | :32:38. | |
be independent. How are you independent if you are doing a | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
report into an organisation that was paying you? You quoted from the | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
reporter said it was a thing earlier. There are lots of good | :32:47. | :32:52. | |
things in the report. Except for the things you don't agree with. I | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
really do think. Let's have an honest think about this. The ?13.4 | :32:58. | :33:04. | |
million fine, isn't it remarkable that a good deal of that is recycled | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
into doing what we've been asking all along. More people on trains. | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
Why don't the government just wake up and make sure there is a guard on | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
every train and get this strike over. People are talking about the | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
page offer rejected, this is about safety and security and access | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
ability. They want the best railway in the world and it is about time we | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
had sensible conversations about it. It is also about pay. To be clear. | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
Hugh Merriman, what made the government take so long to act on | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
this? I've been through the contract with the transport select committee | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
and it is quite a technical clause. Southern said it was down to the | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
fault of industrial action. The government has demonstrated that | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
some of the causes were Southern. I'm critical of both sides. My | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
problem with the Labour Party position is that it is completely | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
one-sided. They are showing they are not a government in waiting because | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
they are sticking up for well-paid individuals rather than passengers | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
who rely on the trains to get to work and to see their families. | :34:15. | :34:16. | |
Thank you very much. The Shadow Chancellor, | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
John McDonnell, recently said a million people take to the streets | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
to change the Government, and endorsed a so-called | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
"Day of Rage" in London. Well, as you might have noticed, | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
the Government is still in place. So do protests and placard-waving | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
really change anything? We'll discuss that in a moment, | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
but first, let's have a look at a few of the more memorable | :34:35. | :34:37. | |
demonstrations from recent years. # Welcome to the future | :34:38. | :34:40. | |
of your world...# Police in capitals across Europe | :34:41. | :34:53. | |
have taken no chances, turning out in force to keep | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
a tight rein on demonstrations against alleged corporate greed | :34:58. | :34:59. | |
and government cuts. A protest today in the city, | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
marketed as a day of rage at the Government, | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
slightly underwhelmed. # My friends, my dear, | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
my love, my God... Angela Merkel chose liberal | :35:11. | :35:21. | |
Hamburg, the gateway It's a decision | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
she may be regretting. # There'll be trouble | :35:25. | :35:33. | |
when the kidz come out.# We're joined now by Matthew Bolton | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
from Citizens UK - that's a group that helps community | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
groups organise to bring He's published a new book | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
called How to Resist. And Jamie Kelsey-Fry | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
is a contributing editor at New Internationalist magazine, | :35:47. | :35:48. | |
and a supporter of various protests including | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
the anti-capitalist Occupy Matthew, you described the recent | :35:51. | :36:02. | |
day of rage in tended to shut down London as indulgent and useless. | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
Why? For two reasons. Firstly, it gives protest a bad name. Firstly | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
because it is ineffective, there is no power analysis, 300 activists are | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
not going to bring down the government. By its own stated aims, | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
it's an effective. It's also opportunistic. We are working around | :36:25. | :36:29. | |
North Kensington, residents associations, at that time, talking | :36:30. | :36:38. | |
about the fire at Grenfell Tower, what the people wanted was to know | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
who died and who survived and have safe accommodation and to have their | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
voices heard. They felt that cause had been hijacked by external | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
activists. In that sense, you are not helping the campaign, some of | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
them that you support because you don't achieve your stated aim to | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
bring down the government. Many protests happened in the past that I | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
fear have put people off the cause rather than getting them to support. | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
But loads of protests have changed the course of history. Mass | :37:11. | :37:25. | |
mobilisations. You can't cut, purely a outraged about tax avoidance. The | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
occupier movement globally changed the dialogue about inequality. | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
That's incredibly valuable. What do you think about changing the | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
narrative, even if you can't point to specific policies and governments | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
haven't been brought down but you change the political debate? I'm | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
absolutely in favour of protest. There's lots of things people are | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
angry about. I do agree that changing the narrative is important | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
but hopefully we are making a tangible difference to people's | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
lives. Think about the living wage campaign, the great benefit is | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
something specific and tangible to address to each employer. Do you pay | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
?9 75 in London? Can you create a political consensus around the need | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
for higher wage? What are they as impactful and as big in terms of | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
just doing them, seeing them? Just a volume of people? Does it have the | :38:24. | :38:30. | |
power? I think you need both. Seeing the women's march in January when 21 | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
million people marched worldwide. A fantastic demonstration of | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
solidarity, raising awareness, what do you do after the March? How do | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
you turn that motivation into something tangible to get your | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
employer to put best practice into practice. That is how people can | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
make a difference. Isn't it to go for something achievable? If you | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
say, let's get rid of the government, get rid of Donald Trump, | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
those things don't happen because of a March. But getting votes for women | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
did happen. Let's change the dialogue about 1% and the 99%. That | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
did happen. If you're looking at a couple of people with placards, | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
notoriously, that is ineffective. So what is the point? Because there are | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
types of protests that do. In 2013, people went down to West Sussex and | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
we managed to controversial eyes fracking over the period of five | :39:34. | :39:38. | |
days whereas before people believed David Cameron when he said it is | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
safe when it is not. Doesn't that underline the argument that it is | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
better to go for I particular policy objective? They are both important. | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
What we would like the viewers to come away from this segment with is, | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
we've got to go out and do something. Globally, there is a | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
historical total distrust in politics -- distrust. You can't just | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
about every five years and that is you done, we want people to be | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
political everyday. There are so many ways of doing that. We are | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
looking at government after governments that just fail is. How | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
did you feel about Jamie's move when he sat outside St Paul's Cathedral | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
during the occupied protests? Was it worthwhile? The occupier movement | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
was exactly the right motive and moment but I feel it was missing a | :40:31. | :40:37. | |
certain method. Within the energy created there, it was front-page | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
news for weeks but because the stated aims of the protest remained | :40:42. | :40:48. | |
quite broad, an end to inequality, we do want that. But everybody is | :40:49. | :40:52. | |
responsible for that and no one is responsible. How can we target that | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
to a specific decision-makers and that is what the book offers a | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
method for. But putting your money where your mouth is is important. | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
Rather than just waiting for election. Isn't he and others who go | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
out on big marches with big stated aims, like Occupy, bringing those to | :41:12. | :41:20. | |
the attention of politicians? For many people. Occupy is mainly | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
movement. Absolute rubbish. You weren't there. You may say that | :41:25. | :41:35. | |
about it isn't true. The 1%, for example. You think that the share of | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
income going up and up, in fact, income and equality is at a 30 year | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
low. What is wrong with the middle-class protesting? There is | :41:47. | :41:56. | |
nothing wrong but if you want a revolution, you want middle-class | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
guys to go to hamburg, jetsetting around bringing down capitalism, | :42:01. | :42:07. | |
that is not particularly practical. There are many more practical ways | :42:08. | :42:14. | |
you can support things. You are out of touch with what was said, mate. | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
Who were the majority of people involved? There is a play about Cap | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
NICE occupier, about one homeless guy who woke up on the steps of | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
Saint Pauls. In the play, he talks about the composite of the people | :42:34. | :42:36. | |
living there. He said it was like being in prison. There was every | :42:37. | :42:43. | |
class of this society there. That is what was extraordinary. We couldn't | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
turn away people who are homeless or had alcohol issues, we had to | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
embrace them. There is nothing wrong with middle-class activists but the | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
question is, do we have someone who is directly affected by the issue at | :42:58. | :43:04. | |
the heart of protest? That was the issue after Grenfell Tower. The | :43:05. | :43:12. | |
living wage campaign was the voice of children of people earning less | :43:13. | :43:18. | |
than the living wage. Look at Jeremy Corbyn's fans and momentum. Look at | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
his rallies. They were accused of being middle class. Look how the | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
visuals affected his popularity. In a way, it is irrelevant. The | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
mainstream media underestimated it, we didn't. We were there all the | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
time. He was speaking about the many and not the few. Where have you | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
heard that before? The 99% and the 1%. If Jeremy Corbyn became Prime | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
Minister and didn't enact some parts of his manifesto, for example | :43:54. | :44:02. | |
getting rid of Jewish and fees. -- tuition fees. Would you go out and | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
protest? Absolutely. The manifesto is important. But it is important to | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
have local community to force politics to grow up in the 21st | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
century and stop representing the one present. One of the risks here | :44:23. | :44:28. | |
and the reason for writing the book is a million more 80-21 -year-olds | :44:29. | :44:36. | |
floated in 2017 and they did in 2015. There's a real problem that | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
cynicism and rage may be the product rather than channelling that | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
interaction. It's about democracy not being something you just watch | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
on television. Thank you very much. Now, it's Bastille Day and, | :44:47. | :45:00. | |
as always in Paris, the President oversees Europe's oldest military | :45:01. | :45:02. | |
parade along the Champs Elysee. Merriman. | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
Donald Trump is in Paris for a two day visit. It is hard to believe it | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
is just over a year since Emmanuel Macron launched his movement. He is | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
President and his party has a majority on the French National | :45:18. | :45:18. | |
Assembly. Let us take a look back. # Does it almost feel that | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
nothing changed at all? # Does it almost feel that | :45:25. | :46:02. | |
you've been here before # Now how am I going to be | :46:03. | :46:10. | |
an optimist about this? I'm joined now by Alexandre Holroyd, | :46:11. | :46:33. | |
he's a member of the French National Assembly | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
for the Northern Europe region. Congratulations and welcome to the | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
daily politics, it sin credible a party that didn't really exist a few | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
years ago, is now in charge of France, with your President Emmanuel | :46:48. | :46:50. | |
Macron, but that also meanses that expectations are going to be very | :46:51. | :46:53. | |
high, how are you going to manage them? They are very high, and I | :46:54. | :47:00. | |
think that the substance is the change, the fact we have done this | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
incredible thing of building a party from scratch in a year, and of | :47:05. | :47:07. | |
winning over the presidency and the National Assembly in a year speaks | :47:08. | :47:10. | |
volume about how much the French want change, so we have a sense of | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
responsibility. We know we don't have a choice and we are going to | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
get to work. We got cracking the day after the election, I was in Paris | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
by 9.00 the day after and we have passed our first law, which is the | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
liberalisation of the labour market. Yes, you could argue, that there was | :47:28. | :47:33. | |
a low turn out, relatively low in the Parliamentary election, that | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
there is disenchantment. You say there is a big mandate for change, | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
and for Emmanuel Macron that is true. How do you deal with that that | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
exists because there was a low turn out in the Parliamentary election? | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
So there was a low turn out in the Parliamentary election, although, | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
for a lot of other countries including the UK that would be quite | :47:51. | :47:57. | |
high, what is clear is that there's been a lack of explanation of what | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
policy makers are doing in past years or decades and one of the | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
first decisions that Emmanuel Macron took was to go in front of Congress, | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
which both Houses of Parliament to explain what the vision, the | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
direction of travel is, that is very important. Have do a better job. | :48:15. | :48:22. | |
Press December sores have tried to reform France and the labour laws | :48:23. | :48:26. | |
there and have failed. In part because of the strength of the | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
union, and also Parliamentary opposition, in the past, how are you | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
going to deal with that fight that will come? We will deal with that | :48:34. | :48:38. | |
fight. There were two main big difference, the first is that we | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
have been elected on a mandate that outlined what we were doing n detail | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
of the procedure, we won both elections on that programme which | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
never changed, from the moment we launched the movement to the moment | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
we got in office. That is different to what we did before. So there is a | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
difference of procedure, the second thing is we want to talk to the | :49:05. | :49:09. | |
unions, there has never been... That is a novel thing. Politics talking | :49:10. | :49:16. | |
to unions. It is in France. We have had over 60 meets between the Prime | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
Minister and the union, we are negotiating every step with the | :49:22. | :49:24. | |
union, sop of the unions who have been opposed to past reform, today | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
are supporting the reforms or at least working with Government to go | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
in the right direction. Let us talk about Trump, because you have beaten | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
the UK to it, you have got the American President in town for those | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
Bastille Day celebration, is Emmanuel Macron embracing Donald | :49:41. | :49:43. | |
Trump? Natural is not the way I would put it. 100 years ago, if I | :49:44. | :49:51. | |
remember it was the 6th April 1917, the Americans entered the First | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
World War and they sent troops which died in battlefield in northern | :49:56. | :49:59. | |
France. This was 100 years ago and this 14th July, like every 14th July | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
we have foreign troops which march alongside French troops. This year | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
it is the American troops in memory of this alliance that was again, | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
sort of rekindled in the Second World War, it was only natural we | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
would receive the head of state. We have lots of common naturalties with | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
the US, working on terrorism, global security, Emmanuel Macron has been | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
clear on the difference, for instance on the Paris accord and | :50:30. | :50:32. | |
with this discourse of between long-standing allies and allies that | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
will remain far after Emmanuel Macron subpoena President and far | :50:38. | :50:41. | |
after Donald Trump, we have to keep in mind what we have in common | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
rather than what separates us. We will come on to Brexit in a moment, | :50:45. | :50:48. | |
what do you think of Emmanuel Macron, and his chances of success? | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
I think he is coming across as Trumpesque, his mask is slipping as | :50:55. | :50:57. | |
this liberal darling, at least in the UK, because we have seen him | :50:58. | :51:01. | |
making France speeches from Versailles, not talking to the | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
press, saying his thoughts are too complex. Comparing himself to | :51:06. | :51:09. | |
Jupiter. That will make people's opinions of him change. People in | :51:10. | :51:16. | |
this country who love centrists, a bit confused by some of the | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
symbolism he is giving off. Do you think he is coming off as a bit | :51:21. | :51:25. | |
grand. He has new politicians of course, who have never been in | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
elected office. It looks and feel different. Does he look and feel | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
that different when you see him in Versailles. I think he does. The | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
French need this drama, they need this direction, in a country which | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
is, really doesn't know where to go, you have somebody who created a | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
party out of his own momentum. It is an incredible thing to watch, the | :51:49. | :51:51. | |
creation from nothing, of a party not just won the presidency but went | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
on to take the Parliament as well. And I think, right now, where | :51:58. | :52:00. | |
leadership is nowhere, and in Britain we are lacking leadership | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
too, France has managed to produce someone who has won the confidence | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
of the country. I would allow him to be big headed. He is sat next to | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
Trump, thumbs up, and he fetes away with it. He made his comment about | :52:14. | :52:20. | |
the Paris Agreement, he said Macron, I want to make the planet great | :52:21. | :52:28. | |
again, mocking a parody of Donald Trump saying he wants to make | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
America great again. He made that video addressing the American people | :52:33. | :52:34. | |
about the terrible President, but look at him now, he is Trump's new | :52:35. | :52:39. | |
best friend. What about Brexit, what does Emmanuel Macron... He doesn't | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
compare himself to Jupiter, that is the press who cap pairs him to be | :52:44. | :52:47. | |
Jupiter. Thank you for that point of orrer. Would he object to that | :52:48. | :52:52. | |
comparison. What he did in front of Parliament is what has been lacking | :52:53. | :52:55. | |
in France, which is give a direction and sense of where the vision is | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
going. It's form of the constitution, it is addressing both | :53:02. | :53:04. | |
Houses of Parliament to show where we are going, that is what the | :53:05. | :53:06. | |
French want to here, a description of what is going ho happen and the | :53:07. | :53:10. | |
reasons why we are doing the reforms which is sometimes quite hard. Is he | :53:11. | :53:14. | |
a fan of Brexit? I don't think he is a fan or a non-fan of Brexit. He is | :53:15. | :53:22. | |
a pro European, we campaign on a very pro European platform. We | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
support the Commission's effort to have a common European position an | :53:26. | :53:31. | |
we will stick by it, which is to support the European Commission in | :53:32. | :53:33. | |
its effort to negotiate with the UK. It is is a question I am often | :53:34. | :53:38. | |
asked, what I often answer is Brexit is not as much of an issue in France | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
as it is here. Accept he wants to push for closer cooperation between | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
the Euro-zone, he is talking about Democratic Convention, what are | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
they? So this is the way we developed the national programme, | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
which is the association of citizens talking, because we think what | :53:58. | :54:01. | |
Europe needs now is to bring back citizens into the vision of what | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
Europe should come. We would have to understand what they expect from | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
Europe, what they desire Europe to be, which is what we have lost track | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
of, and associated that with professionals, to come up with a | :54:14. | :54:18. | |
sort of more constitutional vision of what it is rather than sort of, | :54:19. | :54:23. | |
sort of grass root vision. We have to let you go. Happy Bastille Day. | :54:24. | :54:25. | |
Time now to find out the answer to our quiz. | :54:26. | :54:29. | |
The question was, what was written on the back of the Arsenal | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
shirt Jeremy Corbyn gave Michel Barnier yesterday? | :54:32. | :54:33. | |
or d) Seumas, I'm not sure this is a great idea. | :54:34. | :54:41. | |
It has to be Seamus. That is the funniest line. It the funniest but | :54:42. | :54:54. | |
not the right answer. Barnier? I am afraid it was just plain old | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
Barnier. Do you think he was pleased to receive the shirt? He gave Jeremy | :55:00. | :55:06. | |
Corbyn a poster. Who did better? That was a lovely shirt. | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
So our relationship with Brussels once more dominated the news agenda, | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
let's take a look at the week in 60 seconds. | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
Theresa May marked her one year in office by welcoming the Spanish king | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
and Queen, and she finally admitted that the election had cause her some | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
grief. Yes, a little tear. Meanwhile Jeremy Corbyn hot-footed it to | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
Brussels, where he gave an Arsenal shirt to the EU Brexit negotiator | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
Michel Barnier. Emily Thornberry and Damian Green deputised at Prime | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
Minister's Questions. The first secretary didn't get the Prime | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
Minister's memo, you are supposed to be building consensus, men, and if | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
we... The Brexit secretary, David Davis, unveiled the Government's | :56:00. | :56:01. | |
Repeal Bill and called on other parties to support it, but Labour, | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
the SNP and the Liberal Democrats have threatened to veto it. More | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
bridge building required. Speaking of which Foreign Secretary | :56:10. | :56:13. | |
Boris Johnson had a message for the EU over divorce payments And I think | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
go whistle is an entirely appropriate expression. | :56:19. | :56:29. | |
Well, that was the week in 60 seconds, Barnier has said the clock | :56:30. | :56:35. | |
is ticking, do you expect much progress next week. It doesn't look | :56:36. | :56:41. | |
like David Davis and his colleagues are being... Boris Johnson said the | :56:42. | :56:46. | |
negotiators can go whistle about the divorce bill they have to pay. I | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
don't know if they will get far unless they agree to pay some of the | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
bill. It is going to be down to money? I have spoken to a number of | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
Tory MPs, who are beginning to feel that we could pay, to get the sort | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
of access and continuing relationship with things like | :57:06. | :57:08. | |
Europol and so on and so forth I think it is about money. This is a | :57:09. | :57:15. | |
typical street stall haggle. The EU saying we want this money and Boris | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
is saying you will not get any. There will be something between the | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
two. That will continue once we left? No, I think it will be a one | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
off payment and might be bigger than we would have liked but to get out | :57:29. | :57:31. | |
the EU is the ultimate objective. It wouldn't be a failure if we end up | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
paying more than we expected. Do you see that or do you think payments | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
for certain things will continue, aside from the sort of divorce bill? | :57:39. | :57:42. | |
That would be the sensible thing to do, like Frazer said, I don't see | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
any evidence of that happening. Theresa May has gone in for the | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
hardest exit she possibly can, why would she begin softening it now. | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
She sees it as a negotiating stance, talking of which, Jeremy Corbyn, | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
there with Michelle barn yes, Nicola Sturgeon, they are having their own | :58:02. | :58:05. | |
meetings, do they make a difference? They do, any opportunity the SNP | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
gets to put a spoke in the wheels it will take, and a Labour | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
administration, in Wales, SNP in Edinburgh, if they get a thing on | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
this, it will be one more rod for Theresa May's back. The transition | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
period, there is debate Liam Fox implying it could be a few months, | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
others saying two years. This is another example of minister making | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
it up as they go along, Labour keeps accusing the Cabinet of doing. It | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
looks like they are doing that, I think that don't have a queue | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
excited line on this. There is a long hot summer to go ahead. | :58:43. | :58:47. | |
Thank you for being my guests of the day. Andrew will be back on Sunday | :58:48. | :58:53. | |
on BBC One at 11 with the Sunday Politics and guests will include the | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
international Trade Secretary Liam Fox. Bye. | :58:57. | :58:57. |