20/07/2017 Daily Politics


20/07/2017

Andrew Neil is joined by Ed Vaizey and David Lammy. As Parliament enters the summer recess, they discuss the Brexit timetable, the Liberal Democrat leadership and summer reading.


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Transcript


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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

:00:38.:00:40.

We've reached the end of the first full round of Brexit

:00:41.:00:43.

As we come on air, chief negotiators David Davis and Michel Barnier

:00:44.:00:48.

Barring any last-minute upsets, Vince Cable looks set to be

:00:49.:00:56.

crowned the new king of the Liberal Democrats,

:00:57.:01:00.

so what next for the party and why didn't anyone else want the job?

:01:01.:01:04.

MPs leave Westmister for the summer recess today,

:01:05.:01:06.

but can you always believe what they claim they're getting up

:01:07.:01:08.

Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something

:01:09.:01:15.

is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth.

:01:16.:01:18.

And we've given up asking the pollsters or the pundits

:01:19.:01:21.

what next for politics, so today we'll see if the fortunes

:01:22.:01:23.

of the party leaders are written in the stars.

:01:24.:01:41.

Even the music is running out of steam!

:01:42.:01:44.

Yes, I forsee all of that next hour of this final Daily Politics

:01:45.:01:47.

before Parliament rises for the summer recess.

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And I'm joined for all of it by two MPs who behave like it's the end

:01:49.:01:52.

of term most of the time anyway - it's Labour's David Lammy

:01:53.:01:55.

First today, the new leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council

:01:56.:02:00.

in London was officially appointed at a meeting last night,

:02:01.:02:02.

she's taken over following the fire at the Grenfell Tower

:02:03.:02:05.

Elizabeth Campbell said she was "deeply sorry" for the grief

:02:06.:02:12.

and trauma caused by the fire, which left at least 80

:02:13.:02:14.

But the council has been accused of being slow to respond

:02:15.:02:21.

and re-house residents, and many members of the public

:02:22.:02:23.

Councillor Campbell, would you like to address the chamber?

:02:24.:02:30.

The victims of this tragedy have been let down. We did not cope well

:02:31.:02:47.

enough in our initial response to the tragedy, and I know that you

:02:48.:02:55.

have heard me apologise for our inadequate response. Tonight I

:02:56.:02:58.

reiterate that apology to you directly. No ifs, no buts, no

:02:59.:03:02.

excuses. So that is the new leader of

:03:03.:03:12.

Kensington Council. There were protests in the gallery last night.

:03:13.:03:17.

David Lammy, you have been vocal in your response, is the council now

:03:18.:03:24.

getting a grip? They have got to, because in the end they are directly

:03:25.:03:28.

responsible for the people of North Kensington, so they've got to get a

:03:29.:03:33.

grip and do that with huge support from the Government. My own view is

:03:34.:03:36.

that there should have been commissioners brought in. You think

:03:37.:03:40.

the council should have been forced to step aside? I think so, because

:03:41.:03:44.

there is a view that the council is too small to cope with this crisis.

:03:45.:03:51.

But she was right to apologise and we have to move forward. In the

:03:52.:03:57.

weeks in the aftermath, Ed Vaizey, of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, aided

:03:58.:04:01.

seems that in Kensington Council you had to have a double-barrelled name

:04:02.:04:04.

and looked totally out of your depth. There was a case the central

:04:05.:04:11.

government taking over. And I think Elizabeth Campbell has apologised

:04:12.:04:15.

and made that point. I don't think the council itself has to be

:04:16.:04:18.

disbanded and replaced with commissioners, but it is clear that

:04:19.:04:22.

a small council like this, any council, regardless of political

:04:23.:04:24.

control, single barrelled names double-barrelled names, couldn't

:04:25.:04:29.

have coped with this terrible, unprecedented tragedy. So the

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Government should have stepped in sooner, and it has now stepped in.

:04:33.:04:39.

And the London mayor lays a key role as well. But clearly it is a

:04:40.:04:43.

national tragedy which deserves a national response, which is now

:04:44.:04:49.

happening. The central government response, Mrs May apologised and

:04:50.:04:52.

there was clearly something wrong with the central government response

:04:53.:04:56.

as well. I don't think anyone is going to shy away from the fact that

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the powers that be didn't get it in the first few days after it

:05:01.:05:03.

happened, what a tragedy this was on the scale of the response. David

:05:04.:05:07.

Lammy, do you still claim that the official death toll is far too low?

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Andrew, I never claimed. What I sought to do and continue to speak

:05:14.:05:18.

to do is speak for the victims and survivors, many of whom I know and

:05:19.:05:22.

you know I lost a friend. It came at last night. People watched people

:05:23.:05:26.

jumping out of windows. People knew their neighbours in this tight-knit

:05:27.:05:30.

community, and they don't recognise the number of 80. Police have

:05:31.:05:36.

confirmed that that is the number. They've said they think the number

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will rest at 80, but they have also said there are 23 homes that they

:05:41.:05:44.

are unsure about, and it is going to take some many months to work out

:05:45.:05:50.

who was in the building. But you talked about suspicions of a

:05:51.:05:53.

cover-up, the police I would take it in this situation, they are not part

:05:54.:05:58.

of the cover-up? You are asking me a question I can't answer. Why would

:05:59.:06:05.

the police cover it up? What I have said, and I'm clear in this, is that

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there have been situations like this in the past, Hillsborough is the one

:06:09.:06:12.

we all remember most recently, and the truth has taken 30 years to come

:06:13.:06:17.

out. And I'm afraid many of the folks down there, me included, are

:06:18.:06:23.

worried, and therefore my job as an elected backbencher in the Labour

:06:24.:06:26.

Party is to be extra vigilant, extra cautious. Again, you have said the

:06:27.:06:32.

official death toll is, quite, far, far too low. You have no evidence

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for that. My evidence is something you don't have, because I suspect

:06:38.:06:39.

you haven't spoken to as many victims as I do. With respect, that

:06:40.:06:45.

is not evidence. Testimony of people who live in the block is pretty good

:06:46.:06:49.

evidence. It would be evidence in a court of law. We need evidence to

:06:50.:06:56.

show that the official death toll is far too low. And you don't have

:06:57.:06:59.

that. Even the victims don't have it. They have their suspicions, and

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a stand that, and they are right to be suspicious... Have you had

:07:05.:07:10.

Cressida Dick on that show and asked that very question? The police have

:07:11.:07:19.

said, the BBC have asked... Don't turn it back on me. Do you have

:07:20.:07:23.

evidence that the official death toll is far, far too low, because

:07:24.:07:26.

you have stated that. Do you have evidence to back it up? Andrew, as a

:07:27.:07:31.

backbencher, I have spoken to survivors and victims. You have not

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put that question to the person in charge, don't put that question to

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me. You cannot make official statements like this unless you have

:07:40.:07:43.

the evidence, otherwise you're just playing politics with a really

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difficult, tragic situation. I resent the suggestion that I'm

:07:50.:07:51.

playing politics when I have a friend that has died, and I'm

:07:52.:07:56.

concerned that the BBC, your show, has not put the question to the

:07:57.:08:00.

person in charge, and you are putting the question to me when I'm

:08:01.:08:05.

speaking on the half of victims. The BBC has interviewed Cressida Dick.

:08:06.:08:10.

Don't make claims that are untrue. I have seen no interviews with

:08:11.:08:13.

Cressida Dick on this issue where she has talked about numbers. You

:08:14.:08:17.

need to talk to TV a bit more, then. You have got it wrong. At least you

:08:18.:08:21.

are on the show. You have got it wrong. You say I have got it wrong

:08:22.:08:25.

does not make you right. And it doesn't make

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you right. Once again, you are playing politics with a tragic

:08:39.:08:41.

situation. I am not playing politics, and I resent the

:08:42.:08:43.

suggestion about this tragedy in which I lost a friend, Andrew. Yes,

:08:44.:08:46.

that is tragic, and it doesn't mean you get to play politics. The

:08:47.:08:48.

viewers will make up their mind. That is very cheap. We will move

:08:49.:08:49.

onto something little lighter. The question for today

:08:50.:08:52.

is about the Brexit talks Last week we learned that

:08:53.:08:55.

David Davis' briefcase has been fitted with a device which blocks

:08:56.:08:59.

electronic signals to protect Now we've learned that

:09:00.:09:01.

the EU side is worried about eavesdropping,

:09:02.:09:05.

too - so what have they started Was it a) Hidden cameras b)

:09:06.:09:07.

Fingerprint scanners c) Invisible At the end of the show,

:09:08.:09:11.

David and Ed will give Let's stick with those talks

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because today marks the conclusion of the first full round of Brexit

:09:16.:09:26.

negotiations in Brussels The two sides are meeting

:09:27.:09:28.

for four days each month, and Brexit Secretary

:09:29.:09:34.

and the EU's Michel Barnier have this morning been talking

:09:35.:09:36.

about the progress they've made - Mr Davis and Mr Barnier have been

:09:37.:09:39.

reviewing four days of talks that have taken place

:09:40.:09:43.

between their negotiating On the table this week have

:09:44.:09:45.

been the thorny issues of citizen's rights,

:09:46.:09:49.

the Irish border and Britain's financial

:09:50.:09:51.

liabilities once we've left. By December this year,

:09:52.:09:57.

Michel Barnier has the initial discussions to finish,

:09:58.:09:59.

which may then lead to the start of talks on a new trade deal

:10:00.:10:03.

with the EU starting Also by the start of 2018

:10:04.:10:05.

the Government will want to have passed its Repeal Bill

:10:06.:10:12.

which will convert all EU law into British law,

:10:13.:10:14.

although opposition parties in both the Commons and the Lords

:10:15.:10:16.

could stall its progress. By October 2018 Mr Barnier has said

:10:17.:10:22.

he wants to have an agreement on the UK's exit deal and this

:10:23.:10:26.

will then be put to a vote in both the Lords and the Commons

:10:27.:10:29.

before then going to the European Parliament

:10:30.:10:32.

for approval. Once this happens it's down

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to the European Council to endorse the deal and then all being well

:10:39.:10:41.

the UK will be out of the EU We agree on the need for certainty

:10:42.:11:06.

on the part of citizens both in the EU and the UK, but we obviously have

:11:07.:11:10.

different views on how we achieve that. On financial settlement, we

:11:11.:11:13.

both recognise the importance of sorting out the obligations we have

:11:14.:11:17.

to one another, both legally and in the spirit of mutual corporation.

:11:18.:11:22.

We've had a robust but constructive talk. Clearly there is a lot left to

:11:23.:11:28.

talk about and further work before we can resolve this. Ultimately

:11:29.:11:31.

getting to a solution will require flexible at you from both sides, but

:11:32.:11:39.

as Michel said, we shouldn't expect incremental progress in every round.

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Let's speak now to our Europe correspondent, Kevin Connolly.

:11:42.:11:45.

This press conference has just been taking place. What have we learned

:11:46.:11:52.

so far? I had to tear myself away, so I'm not entirely sure how that is

:11:53.:11:57.

going to end, but I think the take away from the earlier part of the

:11:58.:12:00.

conference, which I suppose we can say would have been the message that

:12:01.:12:04.

they both went in with was that they want to emphasise there has been

:12:05.:12:10.

progress. Half the issues on citizens rights resolved, so

:12:11.:12:14.

generally I think a positive take on the first really substantial talks,

:12:15.:12:19.

getting to know the detail of each other's positions, but also of

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course that overall impression that there is a tremendous amount left to

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do, and that the obvious difficult issues like the European Court of

:12:27.:12:32.

Justice are exactly that, obviously difficult and not solved yet. And

:12:33.:12:36.

somewhere below that kind of mutual note of positivity, just a faint

:12:37.:12:43.

note of chippiness, I think. David Davis at one point turned to Michel

:12:44.:12:46.

Barnier and said to him, to coin a phrase, the clock is ticking, that

:12:47.:12:50.

of course being the phrase that Michel Barnier was using earlier in

:12:51.:12:54.

the process to imply that Britain was just not getting down to

:12:55.:12:56.

business, and was underprepared for these talks. Mr Barnier said there

:12:57.:13:03.

were still fundamental differences on Citizens' rights in the UK and

:13:04.:13:12.

the EU. That was something they were hoping for progress on, but still

:13:13.:13:16.

fundamental differences? Yes, the reality of citizens rights is that

:13:17.:13:21.

it is on two levels, there is the political level, where the European

:13:22.:13:25.

Union is adamant that the European Court of Justice should retain a

:13:26.:13:27.

role in all of this and oversee those rights, even for what will be

:13:28.:13:33.

caught the protective cohorts, the EU citizens currently living in the

:13:34.:13:42.

UK. That would give the ECJ role in British life, for the future, you

:13:43.:13:45.

think about people being born this year into a family living in

:13:46.:13:51.

Britain, possibly for 100 years. And the Theresa May, any role of the ECJ

:13:52.:13:56.

in Britain is a red line, so they have a big political and legal

:13:57.:13:59.

problem, but alongside all of that on citizens rights you have these

:14:00.:14:02.

tremendously conjugated issues about whether people will be able to vote

:14:03.:14:06.

in local governor to elections in different jurisdictions in future.

:14:07.:14:10.

What about the rights of posted workers, fun -- frontier workers,

:14:11.:14:19.

children bought -- born into families where the older children

:14:20.:14:22.

already have the protections and younger children may not, see you

:14:23.:14:25.

have both of those sets of difficulties in parallel. Overall

:14:26.:14:29.

the message is that a lot of progress is being made on a lot of

:14:30.:14:32.

those issues, and the British viewers that the European idea that

:14:33.:14:37.

Britain is underprepared is just wrong, but that issue of the ECJ and

:14:38.:14:41.

its future role looms in the background. Someone is going to have

:14:42.:14:45.

to give way on that and make a major concession, and it's not really

:14:46.:14:48.

clear yet who that's going to be. Kevin Connolly, thank you for that.

:14:49.:14:53.

Bringing us up-to-date on the press conference in Brussels between David

:14:54.:14:55.

Davis and Michel Barnier. We're joined now by

:14:56.:14:57.

the former deputy chairman Are our expectations too high? Are

:14:58.:15:07.

we wrong to expect some kind of breakthrough on major issues at this

:15:08.:15:13.

stage? Yes, I think our expectations are far too high and that is the

:15:14.:15:17.

problem I have had with the whole approach to Brexit. The country has

:15:18.:15:21.

voted to leave the EU and we are going to leave but suddenly the

:15:22.:15:26.

interpretation of what that means seems to be held by a particular

:15:27.:15:31.

small cabals of people who say it all has to happen by March, 2019, no

:15:32.:15:38.

transition, and anything with the E in it or Europe, cannot have a role.

:15:39.:15:45.

The ECJ will be an independent tribunal adjudicating on matters of

:15:46.:15:48.

law where we have a continuing relationship with the EU which we

:15:49.:15:52.

will have if we want to trade and if we want to give European citizens

:15:53.:15:57.

rights and we want British citizens to have rights in Europe. It can be

:15:58.:16:03.

tailored, it can have British judges on it, but what worries me is the

:16:04.:16:09.

ECJ redline, people seem to confuse it with the European Court of Human

:16:10.:16:15.

Rights. Nothing to do with the EU. Suzanne Evans, and then David Lammy.

:16:16.:16:19.

It does look now we are heading for quite a long transition period. Let

:16:20.:16:24.

me take apart a couple of things Ed said. I will take it apart. It is

:16:25.:16:31.

the EU is that set the timetable, it is no good you complaining about...

:16:32.:16:38.

It is Article 50. We triggered Article 50 under EU law. Which we

:16:39.:16:44.

agree to. We are members of the EU. If she is going to take me apart,

:16:45.:16:53.

she had better do it effectively! We have not even heard from David

:16:54.:16:57.

Lammy, we will come back to you. 52% of the people voted for it and you

:16:58.:17:04.

do the voters and your former constituents no good by claiming...

:17:05.:17:09.

The classic trick of claiming to speak for... We have got sucked into

:17:10.:17:14.

the quagmire of the EU, it just shows how much sovereignty we have

:17:15.:17:19.

given away. Do you accept their will in addition to the two-year period

:17:20.:17:22.

which is now under way under Article 50 that on a number of these issues,

:17:23.:17:29.

there will now have to be potentially prolonged transition

:17:30.:17:33.

periods? This is my worry. There is a deadline and we have to meet it.

:17:34.:17:36.

We do not want this to go on and on forever. It is not in the country's

:17:37.:17:42.

best interests. The sooner we can break free of the EU, the sooner we

:17:43.:17:47.

can make our own trade deals and control our own borders and be

:17:48.:17:52.

certain we are under British law. Do you think we are in for a prolonged

:17:53.:17:57.

transition deal? If we do not get a transition deal, there is a terrible

:17:58.:18:04.

cliff edge that while -- that will ruin our economy and jobs. It is a

:18:05.:18:13.

myth. For business and industry, there is a cliff edge, a lot of

:18:14.:18:16.

people in Britain will suffer. When you talk about a soft transition,

:18:17.:18:23.

you mean joining the EAA, all of the things I have just said, is control

:18:24.:18:26.

of borders, control of immigration, sovereignty of Parliament, that will

:18:27.:18:32.

not be possible if we stay in the single market. Some of it depends

:18:33.:18:36.

whether you put that control, the fantasy control, above the economy.

:18:37.:18:44.

I know the Labour Party thinks... It has promised to control immigration.

:18:45.:18:48.

I'm in disagreement with the bench on this. But I am saying it is a

:18:49.:18:52.

very peculiar thing to put immigration above the economy and

:18:53.:18:57.

without transition, we will crush the economy. Ed Vaizey, people like

:18:58.:19:01.

Suzanne Evans and people in your own party are suspicious of a long

:19:02.:19:04.

transition period because they think people like you will use it to be

:19:05.:19:10.

effectively endless so that we do not me. Exactly. It is a completely

:19:11.:19:15.

ideological approach to Brexit, completely barmy, takes no account

:19:16.:19:20.

of people's lives, jobs, British businesses. I am a remainer but we

:19:21.:19:24.

accept the result, there should be a transition period, we could be part

:19:25.:19:29.

of the EAA and sensible Brexiteers are coming to that opinion. But the

:19:30.:19:36.

Suzanne s do not give a monkeys about people's jobs. Quite

:19:37.:19:41.

extraordinary. It shows your arrogance. Why is it arrogant to...

:19:42.:19:49.

It is two of you against one. Show some respect and fairness here.

:19:50.:19:57.

Boeing, yeah! You do not think we should have fairness? -- oh, yeah. I

:19:58.:20:02.

do not think you showed me fairness earlier. Let us show fairness to

:20:03.:20:09.

Suzanne So much has still to be decided, there will inevitably loose

:20:10.:20:16.

ends that will require some kind of transition period now. Do you deny

:20:17.:20:21.

that? The analogy often given is that of divorce. In some ways, it is

:20:22.:20:27.

a bad analogy. There are children, the decree nice eye, when it is

:20:28.:20:32.

absolute, there are inevitably consequences but go on. We have

:20:33.:20:36.

always said we want to continue a good working relationship with the

:20:37.:20:40.

EU. The point is we need to do this in a spirit of harmony,

:20:41.:20:45.

communication, and what is best for our country. Let us be clear, is

:20:46.:20:49.

leaving the EU and getting a good trade deal in particular will be of

:20:50.:20:54.

benefit to the EU too. We have to be like responsible parent and discuss

:20:55.:20:58.

sensibly and look at what is in both our best interests. If you look at

:20:59.:21:02.

it logically, as a sensible Brexiteer, I do not like the fact

:21:03.:21:08.

you are saying some of us our sensible or some not depending on

:21:09.:21:11.

whether we agree with you. There is a potential for this to be in both

:21:12.:21:16.

our best interests and that is the deal we should be heading for and I

:21:17.:21:19.

hope that will come out of the press conference today. What would be left

:21:20.:21:23.

unresolved in a transition period and how long would it be? My view,

:21:24.:21:28.

my overview, is that we should be members of the EAA for a

:21:29.:21:33.

transitional period. Transitional time limited... It is the... I am

:21:34.:21:39.

trying to help people by explaining what bit EAA is. Tell our viewers

:21:40.:21:44.

what it is and why it would be... The European Economic Area, being

:21:45.:21:49.

part of the customs union and single market for a transition period to

:21:50.:21:53.

trade. There is no doubt it would be time limited and we would come out.

:21:54.:21:57.

What I want to avoid most of all is a cliff edge that takes us out of

:21:58.:22:02.

the European Union completely in the March, 2019. How long would it take?

:22:03.:22:07.

I have suggested five years. We remain in the single market and the

:22:08.:22:12.

customs union... While we work out the free trade deal that we want.

:22:13.:22:17.

You do not think the deal can be done by March of 2019? I would be

:22:18.:22:24.

staggered, if I am proved wrong, I am proved wrong... David Lammy, is

:22:25.:22:28.

that your position too? Would we do like to see a transition in which we

:22:29.:22:33.

remain in the single market and the customs union? I think it transition

:22:34.:22:36.

is essential because I absolutely disagree with Suzanne, I see no way

:22:37.:22:41.

on the timetable in which we can negotiate a free trade deal with

:22:42.:22:46.

Europe and negotiate our exit. There are too many big things to get

:22:47.:22:49.

through and you have seen just in this initial week the huge disputes

:22:50.:22:56.

over the cost of the bill and the huge dispute over what will happen

:22:57.:23:00.

to EU residents. The idea we can move on the trade is just

:23:01.:23:05.

impossible. Any lawyer will tell you who has negotiated on trade, it is

:23:06.:23:08.

impossible. For that reason alone, there has to be transition. Barry

:23:09.:23:17.

pessimistic. -- very pessimistic. We are in unique circumstances. Most

:23:18.:23:22.

trade deals negotiated from scratch. This would be a deal which

:23:23.:23:27.

inevitably would be less free than the current arrangement. Does that

:23:28.:23:30.

change things in your view? We have already seen what the benefits to us

:23:31.:23:34.

and the EU are of a free-trade deal because that is effectively what we

:23:35.:23:39.

have at the moment, it should not be too difficult for responsible adults

:23:40.:23:42.

to negotiate something very similar. With respect to both of you, start

:23:43.:23:47.

to be a bit more positive. There is a part of you that thinks you want

:23:48.:23:52.

Britain to fail on this. That is rubbish. I am not allowed to

:23:53.:23:57.

interrupt or whatever, but that is incredibly offensive. The idea that

:23:58.:24:00.

we want Britain to fail is ludicrous. We want to secure British

:24:01.:24:06.

jobs. Let us agreed that we want British dogs. -- British jobs. Thank

:24:07.:24:12.

you. If you're someone who always waits

:24:13.:24:15.

until the last possible day before filling out an application

:24:16.:24:18.

or your tax return, you'll know how They often wait until the last day

:24:19.:24:21.

before the summer recess to release details of those tricky decisions

:24:22.:24:25.

they've been thinking about. They're sometimes even accused

:24:26.:24:28.

of trying to bury bad I am one of those people so dare I

:24:29.:24:39.

suggest I have a little bit of sympathy for the Government. The

:24:40.:24:42.

Government say they are trying to finish things up and the opposition

:24:43.:24:45.

say they are trying to sneak things out. There are 22 written statements

:24:46.:24:50.

today trickled out on the Parliament website, generally pretty normal for

:24:51.:24:55.

this time of year for the end of term, but quite technical stuff. For

:24:56.:24:58.

example, we find out today from Michael Fallon that one of the

:24:59.:25:02.

Navy's new frigates will be called HMS Glasgow. Another one, the

:25:03.:25:10.

transfer rate will remain at 12% in 2019 and 2020. Me neither. It is

:25:11.:25:14.

significant if you are involved in farming. Interesting nuggets have

:25:15.:25:18.

come out today for example on the railways. The electrification of the

:25:19.:25:22.

Midland mainland and parts of the great Western Railway in South Wales

:25:23.:25:25.

will not be electrified. The Government says it is too avoid

:25:26.:25:31.

disruptive works that does not need to happen now because of new

:25:32.:25:35.

technology. But many people hoped it would happen. All of this comes when

:25:36.:25:39.

yesterday we had the announcement the state pension age will rise to

:25:40.:25:44.

68 and that will be brought forward. It was always going to be 68 but it

:25:45.:25:48.

was going to happen nine years later. That will affect 6 million

:25:49.:25:54.

extra people between 39 and 47. That was pretty controversial, the

:25:55.:25:57.

Government was accused of trying to sneak out but bad news yesterday. As

:25:58.:26:02.

ever, Andrew, nothing much gets passed us.

:26:03.:26:04.

Indeed. Quite right. Thanks for that.

:26:05.:26:07.

Let's talk now about the race, if that's the right word,

:26:08.:26:10.

to become the next Liberal Democrat leader, because nominations

:26:11.:26:12.

for this keenly-watched contest close later today.

:26:13.:26:14.

You will remember that Tim Farron announced his resignation

:26:15.:26:16.

from the job last month, saying he felt his Christian

:26:17.:26:18.

faith was incompatible with leading the party.

:26:19.:26:20.

Here he is speaking to 5 Live last week.

:26:21.:26:23.

Well, we've heard about people shedding tears

:26:24.:26:27.

I'm somebody who does shed tears occasionally if things move me.

:26:28.:26:32.

Generally not things to do with myself.

:26:33.:26:34.

Well, actually, no, I completely held it together,

:26:35.:26:37.

I knew what I was going to do, I made the little statement

:26:38.:26:42.

in party headquarters, and was about to head off up north,

:26:43.:26:44.

and I just got this lovely text from my 15-year-old saying,

:26:45.:26:49.

"I'm very proud of you," and I had a cry then.

:26:50.:26:52.

But that was more really the fact that it's nice being reminded

:26:53.:26:56.

So, with nominations closing at 4pm, who are the runners and riders

:26:57.:27:02.

Well, the first to throw his hat in the ring was the former

:27:03.:27:08.

seat back from the Conservatives at the general election,

:27:09.:27:16.

and he's dismissed suggestions that at 74 he is too old for the job.

:27:17.:27:21.

Yes, Vince was the first and only one of the party's 12 MPs

:27:22.:27:29.

to say he wanted to stand, so barring any last-minute

:27:30.:27:32.

upsets, my professional opinion is he's fairly likely to win.

:27:33.:27:37.

Well, we're joined now by one of those who didn't stand.

:27:38.:27:43.

She's the party's new Education Spokeswoman, Layla Moran.

:27:44.:27:46.

Good to see you. Why it has no one else decided to stand? Some people

:27:47.:27:56.

considered it, I think. In the end, it has to be about who is right at

:27:57.:27:59.

the time and a number of people thought about it in the context of

:28:00.:28:04.

young families, for example, and decided it was not the time for them

:28:05.:28:07.

right now. It has to be a job you want. The answer for a left-wing,

:28:08.:28:14.

Progressive party that preaches diversity and representing

:28:15.:28:21.

21st-century Britain is a 74-year-old white guy. Yeah, a

:28:22.:28:25.

74-year-old white guy who also want other people to have the best

:28:26.:28:29.

possible opportunity. You have to judge someone on what they do and

:28:30.:28:32.

not what they looked like. The fact he is older does not matter so long

:28:33.:28:36.

as he is championing the causes of young people. The fact he is white

:28:37.:28:40.

does not matter so long as he is championing the causes of minority

:28:41.:28:47.

backgrounds. I would much rather seen a woman... Why didn't you

:28:48.:28:51.

stand? I was elected weeks ago, are you mad? That is very flattering. A

:28:52.:29:00.

lot of MPs have a tradition of going for leadership when people do not

:29:01.:29:05.

expect it. Maybe next time. Why has no woman decided to stand? I don't

:29:06.:29:12.

know. I can tell you why I didn't. I was just elected. There are four of

:29:13.:29:16.

us. That is an issue. We do definitely need more MPs if more are

:29:17.:29:20.

going to throw their hats into the ring. If you look at the position of

:29:21.:29:24.

the Lib Dems at the moment from where they were when they joined the

:29:25.:29:29.

coalition in 2010, it is clearly a long fight back you are going to

:29:30.:29:33.

have, it is not going to... The last election, you got a few more MPs,

:29:34.:29:37.

but your share of the vote fell, no breakthrough at all. It will be

:29:38.:29:42.

several elections before you can re-establish your position. Don't

:29:43.:29:47.

you need somebody who was going to be there for the duration? Mr cable,

:29:48.:29:53.

he will be, if this parliament goes its full round, he will be 80 by the

:29:54.:29:58.

next election, almost. No future in that for you, is there? We will see

:29:59.:30:02.

where it goes. I bought his book quite early on when I joined the

:30:03.:30:09.

party, Free Radical. I think there are lots of progressive, young ideas

:30:10.:30:14.

in that book. The party itself is not just one person and the Liberal

:30:15.:30:18.

Democrats are very good at having a multitude of people feed into the

:30:19.:30:22.

direction of the party. I agree with you, it will take us a long time to

:30:23.:30:27.

come back, but there are signs we are. Vince Cable has said we want to

:30:28.:30:30.

overtake the Conservatives in our membership, we are not far off, so

:30:31.:30:40.

we are coming, Ed. The number of MPs customer not yet. You start where

:30:41.:30:46.

you are strong. We certainly have a strong, young, vigorous membership.

:30:47.:30:50.

From there, we will get a new crop, myself being one, and we will have

:30:51.:30:53.

more and more people come forward and I hope the lot of them are women

:30:54.:30:58.

and from ethnic minority backgrounds. When you go to the

:30:59.:31:03.

conference which I have done many times... You bought me a drink, I

:31:04.:31:09.

remember it well. You have to pass the time somehow! It is geriatric

:31:10.:31:13.

city, isn't it? I would not say so, I was there. That is why I bought

:31:14.:31:20.

you a drink! If you look at the make-up of 50% of members who have

:31:21.:31:24.

joined us in the last election, it is a huge number of young people who

:31:25.:31:28.

have joined the party who are very excited over where we are going.

:31:29.:31:33.

What about the policy on Brexit under Vincent cable? Will that

:31:34.:31:41.

change? No, we are proudly pro-European, we always have been

:31:42.:31:45.

and we stay that way. I think he is taking it even further than Tim

:31:46.:31:49.

Farron has been, and saying that he doesn't see it happening, and my

:31:50.:31:54.

first few weeks in the house, I can see how that might work out. Your

:31:55.:31:59.

new leader, or at least will be at close of play today, he previously

:32:00.:32:03.

argued against a second referendum on the outcome of the Brexit talks,

:32:04.:32:07.

but that is still your party's policy? Yes, that is the party

:32:08.:32:11.

policy and we are strong on that. So he has changed his mind? I don't

:32:12.:32:16.

know if he said that before, but it is certainly where we stand now, and

:32:17.:32:20.

it looks like public opinion is coming across. A recent poll showed

:32:21.:32:26.

that 53% with the increasingly difficult circumstances under which

:32:27.:32:30.

these talks are taking place, I do think that there is a case, and

:32:31.:32:34.

increasingly growing case in the eyes of many people, that is to have

:32:35.:32:38.

a say on what finally comes out of this mess is the right thing to do.

:32:39.:32:43.

OK. David Lammy, what do you make of the return of Vince Cable? I have

:32:44.:32:50.

always personally got on with him as a fellow London MP. I think the Lib

:32:51.:32:54.

Dems need a grown-up, to be honest, and he is definitely a grown-up. He

:32:55.:32:59.

is seasoned, he has been around Parliament a long time, he knows

:33:00.:33:02.

what he's doing. These are incredibly difficult times for our

:33:03.:33:08.

country, and you know, the Lib Dems are currently a small party. I

:33:09.:33:10.

suspect he's the right person at this time, but I hope that others

:33:11.:33:16.

who are bit younger will come through in the next short while, the

:33:17.:33:20.

next period, and we will see those people prominent in his team. I've

:33:21.:33:25.

got a lot of affection for their position in Europe. Mr Cable...

:33:26.:33:41.

Don't we call him Sir Vince? You don't get titles on this show. It

:33:42.:33:50.

may be a stretch of Labour to win an overall majority in another

:33:51.:33:53.

election, but they could do the largest party. There is room for

:33:54.:33:56.

deals, negotiation with the Lib Dems, is that not a threat to the

:33:57.:34:02.

Tories? Might well be room for coalitions. We will fight Labour and

:34:03.:34:07.

the Lib Dems equally vigorously. I think they are scarred by their

:34:08.:34:11.

experience of coalition with us, but of course we are going to win the

:34:12.:34:15.

next election hands down, so it is a hypothetical question. Like you did

:34:16.:34:24.

last time?! I was one of Vince's ministers in the Department of

:34:25.:34:27.

business, and I do have a lot of time and respect for him, and I

:34:28.:34:31.

think he will be a good and effectively do. I want to ask the

:34:32.:34:34.

question of why the Lib Dems have broken through, and I say that in

:34:35.:34:39.

the spirit of enquiry. I was surprised at the last election that

:34:40.:34:41.

they didn't make the kind of breakthrough I thought they might do

:34:42.:34:44.

with Remain voters perhaps effectively punishing... That was

:34:45.:34:49.

the strategy, but it didn't seem to... We can't talk you into a

:34:50.:34:57.

last-minute bid? I'm very flattered, thank you, but no. From you, that is

:34:58.:35:03.

very flattering. The drinks are on you next time! Absolutely.

:35:04.:35:12.

The Commons and the Lords rise for summer recess today,

:35:13.:35:14.

leaving Westminster to the tourists until September.

:35:15.:35:16.

Of course, MPs have plenty of work to do back home

:35:17.:35:18.

in their constituencies, but most of them will probably be

:35:19.:35:21.

taking a holiday too and Theresa May has been telling the Tories to go

:35:22.:35:24.

Cynics might suggest that's in part so they don't spend the summer

:35:25.:35:28.

Jeremy Corbyn had a different message.

:35:29.:35:31.

He told Labour MPs that they needed to help him mount a summer election

:35:32.:35:34.

He really knows how to enjoy himself.

:35:35.:35:37.

That's the question Emma Vardy put to MPs.

:35:38.:35:41.

# We're going where the sun shines brightly

:35:42.:35:43.

# We're going where the skies are blue

:35:44.:35:46.

I hope it's a summer of beauty, kindness,

:35:47.:35:59.

everyone getting on with each other, resolving our differences and trying

:36:00.:36:01.

Well, everybody has a break, don't they?

:36:02.:36:05.

Do think the plotting against Theresa May may calm down,

:36:06.:36:09.

or do you think it's going to rumble on over summer?

:36:10.:36:12.

I don't think people want to plot against the Prime Minister.

:36:13.:36:14.

I think what we want to do is have a Government that is driving

:36:15.:36:18.

forward with a strong agenda as well as dealing with Brexit.

:36:19.:36:23.

I think everybody needs a summer break.

:36:24.:36:25.

I don't think MPs are underworked or they take too long

:36:26.:36:27.

I suppose you would think of me as part of the union

:36:28.:36:31.

I think a lot of people are heading off.

:36:32.:36:35.

Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something

:36:36.:36:39.

is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth, because

:36:40.:36:41.

Are you a sort of cocktails on the beach man, or a walking

:36:42.:36:46.

Our constituency has some fantastic beaches,

:36:47.:36:49.

so I suppose I'll be doing a lot of that, walking on the beach.

:36:50.:36:52.

We've got a food festival in September as well,

:36:53.:36:54.

But actually, above all, it's just an opportunity

:36:55.:36:57.

to spend time with residents in the constituency.

:36:58.:36:59.

And we're joined now by Julia Hobsbawm.

:37:00.:37:04.

She's the author of a book called Fully Connected -

:37:05.:37:06.

Surviving and Thriving in an Age of Overload, and she's been

:37:07.:37:09.

writing about the important of switching off on holiday.

:37:10.:37:14.

Welcome to the programme. Hello. There is a time of great political

:37:15.:37:20.

change, Labour hopes there will be a slap election -- snap election. The

:37:21.:37:28.

Government mired in bricks and negotiations. Is this really a good

:37:29.:37:32.

time from holiday. Probably not, and even if it is, it is difficult to

:37:33.:37:36.

do, because Every has got their smartphone, which they need to board

:37:37.:37:41.

the plane with, or they need their smart maps. 60% of us go online on

:37:42.:37:49.

our mobiles, so even if we want to disconnect, it's actually really

:37:50.:37:53.

hard to do. But as you are pointing out, psychologically, we are now

:37:54.:37:56.

pretty embedded in these networks, and it is very difficult to say,

:37:57.:38:01.

thanks, I'm taking a break. It is difficult in the sense of just

:38:02.:38:06.

switching off and not looking at the smartphone or consulting the iPad

:38:07.:38:10.

while we are away, at least for a period of time. Do you recommend

:38:11.:38:14.

that we do? I think each person, it is a bit like diet and fitness. You

:38:15.:38:19.

have to find your own strategy. But having no strategy is a bad idea.

:38:20.:38:31.

We have infobesity like we have a obesity. It is not easy to do, but I

:38:32.:38:37.

certainly think that having rules and regulations saying I will be

:38:38.:38:40.

online for this amount of time per day, or I am going to actually have

:38:41.:38:45.

some time when I just turn my mobile off. I have a day when I turn my

:38:46.:38:55.

technology off, and one day a week, I am disconnected. Of course I cheat

:38:56.:39:00.

sometimes, but I try not to. And it really makes a difference. It really

:39:01.:39:05.

makes a difference to just read and talk and be face-to-face and not on

:39:06.:39:09.

Facebook. I would definitely say nobody should be on Facebook over

:39:10.:39:12.

the holidays. You have to cut the cord. Politicians are exhausted at

:39:13.:39:16.

the moment. This has been an exhausting period. We all are, we

:39:17.:39:22.

are all completely overloaded. There is more data now produced in a

:39:23.:39:25.

single year than in the whole of human history. We are drowning. So

:39:26.:39:30.

the answer isn't to stuff ourselves with more information, and these

:39:31.:39:34.

rolling feeds and rolling news make people edgy, so I think that our

:39:35.:39:40.

social health, as I put it, which is everything to do with how we

:39:41.:39:44.

connect, you have to, because actually politicians that lack

:39:45.:39:49.

social health, and I exclude these two fine gentleman, time and time

:39:50.:39:53.

again you see an absence of social health where people are so

:39:54.:39:56.

overloaded, they are not making sensible decisions, and they are

:39:57.:40:02.

tuning out anyway. David Lammy, will you switch your phone off? I think I

:40:03.:40:05.

want to take Julia as my therapist! This is fantastic. I would

:40:06.:40:12.

definitely be literally putting the phones in a drawer and chatting

:40:13.:40:17.

away. And the reason for that is we have had a general election which

:40:18.:40:20.

went on for a very long time. We have then had a very tough period in

:40:21.:40:27.

politics, and certainly Grenfell has been at the forefront. I want to

:40:28.:40:31.

spend time with my wife and kids. I have a three-year-old. I want to

:40:32.:40:36.

read the Gruffalo, more than once. And that is a very good aim indeed,

:40:37.:40:40.

but how long will the phones be in the draw? Half an hour!

:40:41.:40:46.

LAUGHTER I feared you might say that. To be

:40:47.:40:50.

fair, you have a little luck in the morning after breakfast, and then

:40:51.:40:55.

you put them away, and there are staff, wonderful staff, who are able

:40:56.:40:59.

that only, you can be away, and if summary said to me once, if a plane

:41:00.:41:04.

falls on your constituency, the Prime Minister will deal with it.

:41:05.:41:11.

Good luck with that! That's true! According to Mr Corbyn, you are

:41:12.:41:15.

meant to be campaigning in 75 marginal seats. Are we? Yes! He

:41:16.:41:21.

can't do it all himself. It is going to be minus David Lammy friendlies

:41:22.:41:24.

two weeks. Didn't you go to the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting

:41:25.:41:29.

this week? I have to confess I wasn't there. You were looking at

:41:30.:41:33.

your mobile phone! That is what he said, he said that they are looking

:41:34.:41:36.

forward to a long recess, but my bad news is that they are not getting

:41:37.:41:40.

one, that's you, not you personally but Labour MPs, because they have

:41:41.:41:47.

got to go campaigning. I want to disagree publicly on that. I

:41:48.:41:50.

honestly think we need a rest, we need a quiet, we need a period where

:41:51.:41:54.

it is not politics, we are talking about EastEnders or something.

:41:55.:41:58.

Productivity around the world is stagnant, stress levels are soaring,

:41:59.:42:03.

so this fully connected life is not yielding the benefits we have been

:42:04.:42:08.

promised, but we have to want to make behavioural changes, and I'm

:42:09.:42:12.

reminded about that joke, how many Californian psychoanalysts does it

:42:13.:42:16.

take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to

:42:17.:42:20.

change. You have to want to disconnect, or you will find a

:42:21.:42:23.

million reasons not to. You will want to disconnect, otherwise how

:42:24.:42:27.

could you continue to plot with fellow Tories against Theresa May? I

:42:28.:42:34.

hate holidays anywhere! I get so bored on holiday, so my phone comes

:42:35.:42:38.

out the minute we arrive on holiday, and a good holiday for me is using

:42:39.:42:43.

my phone and not seeing my children for two weeks. Absolutely perfect. I

:42:44.:42:48.

would be plotting against Theresa May, but after my row with Suzanne

:42:49.:42:52.

Evans, I will have to spend the next three months on Twitter batting off

:42:53.:42:56.

the Ukip is coming for Mr letting my country down. He is a lost cause! He

:42:57.:43:02.

isn't, he has bought my book and he is halfway through it. He wants to

:43:03.:43:06.

change, here's the light bulb. I haven't had a chance to read it, I

:43:07.:43:10.

have been on Twitter! We will leave you to it.

:43:11.:43:13.

So, assuming MPs do get at least some time off over the summer,

:43:14.:43:16.

like the rest of us, they'll be looking for a good book to read.

:43:17.:43:19.

And if they don't fancy the latest Dan Brown,

:43:20.:43:22.

then luckily for them, the MP Keith Simpson produces an annual

:43:23.:43:24.

OK, not all of us were on the BBC's talent rich list yesterday,

:43:25.:43:50.

but who needs Honolulu when you've got the Costa del Thames?

:43:51.:43:53.

Besides, doesn't matter where you are when your

:43:54.:43:55.

Making the list this year, three authors whose other

:43:56.:44:01.

Ann Clwyd's a very personal memoir, Johnny Mercer writes

:44:02.:44:07.

about his time in Afghanistan, and Chris Bryant critiques

:44:08.:44:09.

If the process of government is your thing, you're in luck.

:44:10.:44:20.

There are, for example, three titles which look

:44:21.:44:22.

into what the Cabinet Secretary does and one about the Prime Minister's

:44:23.:44:25.

As ever, there are some good reads on the world wars,

:44:26.:44:32.

from the battlefield of Passchendaele,

:44:33.:44:35.

the resistance to the Nazis, and turncoat Gestapo agents.

:44:36.:44:40.

Of course, there are authors who have done plenty of digging

:44:41.:44:50.

into history and unearthed some real factual gems.

:44:51.:44:52.

There are diamonds and Romans and husband hunters,

:44:53.:44:54.

Theresa May told her MPs to relax this summer.

:44:55.:45:00.

For those who really can't take their minds off

:45:01.:45:02.

plotting, there is also a book about Machiavelli.

:45:03.:45:05.

Now, you might need a longer holiday than you thought.

:45:06.:45:08.

The list covers all sorts of subjects and there are 42

:45:09.:45:10.

It's pretty heavy going, so you may consider packing a little

:45:11.:45:16.

There are 40 books on your list, do you present this to your fellow MPs

:45:17.:45:42.

as a selection or they should read the 40? It is a pick and mix. The

:45:43.:45:47.

whips like to think they will read the 40. David has just said it

:45:48.:45:51.

should be fiction and my wife would agree. Every MP invariably says to

:45:52.:45:56.

me, I do want to read one proper nonfiction book. All I do and I have

:45:57.:46:02.

read a lot of them is draw a cross-section. You do this every

:46:03.:46:08.

year? It started ten years ago when I was working with William Hague and

:46:09.:46:15.

I did it as a joke and it caught on. Have you read all 40? I have read

:46:16.:46:22.

two thirds. Why are you recommending once you have not read? They are

:46:23.:46:26.

ones other colleagues have read and I have looked at them and thought, I

:46:27.:46:29.

am going to get around to reading them. If you had, say, only one book

:46:30.:46:37.

that you had to recommend. An MP says, I have only time for one book.

:46:38.:46:42.

What would it be? It would actually be my colleague Johnny Mercer's

:46:43.:46:50.

book. I always look out for books written by colleagues. Johnny

:46:51.:46:55.

arrived in 2015, Central office said he would never take a seat off

:46:56.:47:00.

Labour, he got re-elected, he was a regular soldier. I thought, I knew

:47:01.:47:04.

what it would be like. I had no idea he was brought up in an incredibly

:47:05.:47:08.

strict Baptist household. All kinds of problems with his parents.

:47:09.:47:12.

Eventually went into the army, served three tours in Afghanistan.

:47:13.:47:17.

He writes brilliantly. He had a very good friend shot next to him which

:47:18.:47:22.

traumatised him. He decided he would go into politics the Conservative

:47:23.:47:33.

Party and he has worked hard at it. Afghanistan has dropped off our

:47:34.:47:35.

vision. Seven, eight years ago, we were all concerned with it. I can

:47:36.:47:38.

really recommend it. It is pretty earthy. One soldier's story about

:47:39.:47:48.

brutal combat. It came out at the beginning of the general election

:47:49.:47:52.

and his agent managed to get it listed and extracts from it in the

:47:53.:47:56.

Daily Mail in the middle of the election. The list is quite serious.

:47:57.:48:03.

Quite heavyweight. Don't MPs deserve a bit of light relief as well? Yeah,

:48:04.:48:11.

they can do that. They can dip into a well-known book shop or go on to

:48:12.:48:16.

Amazon and get novels. I have... I don't know if it is sexist. Several

:48:17.:48:21.

female MPs have said to me, including recently a Labour MP,

:48:22.:48:25.

look, Keith, when is your book list coming out? My husband is pretty

:48:26.:48:29.

good with the kids on the beach for the first week, but after that, he

:48:30.:48:33.

wants one heavyweight book to read. What about a history book? I would

:48:34.:48:42.

recommend One Hot Summer. The author has taken 1858 and it is relevant

:48:43.:48:49.

because she weaves together three great characters. Disraeli,

:48:50.:48:56.

Chancellor of the Exchequer, Darwin, Origins Of The Species, 1858, he

:48:57.:49:00.

rushed it out, and Dickens, going through a rather messy divorce. It

:49:01.:49:07.

is about Parliament as well and 1858 was a horrendous hot summer. The

:49:08.:49:11.

Thames stank. There were no proper sewers. As often the case,

:49:12.:49:16.

Parliament panicked and we brought through a whole series of bills

:49:17.:49:22.

which enabled the engineers but the embankment and everything else. It

:49:23.:49:28.

is funny as well. They are building a new super sewer down the Thames

:49:29.:49:33.

these days. We hope it will work. David Lammy, have you decided, any

:49:34.:49:38.

of these books catch your fancy? I thought it was all a bit heavy but

:49:39.:49:43.

you have now persuaded me I have got to buy Johnny Mercer's book.

:49:44.:49:48.

Otherwise it is Lee Childs for me. I want something like, nonfiction,

:49:49.:49:52.

easy. Heavy politics put to one side. I can understand that. All of

:49:53.:49:58.

this effort... Understandably... It is also quite hard to read a heavy

:49:59.:50:03.

book in the sun. You need something... What is your reading

:50:04.:50:08.

list? This is why you bring David and I together. My answer is

:50:09.:50:13.

identical. Johnny Mercer's book, it has had incredible reviews and I am

:50:14.:50:16.

definitely now going to read it. I will obviously take that free copy.

:50:17.:50:23.

Not before I do! Lee Child is my default option on holiday. Keith

:50:24.:50:34.

sticks to politics. East-west Street I am also very keen to read and a

:50:35.:50:39.

must read if you want to sound sophisticated about the future of

:50:40.:50:43.

the planet. The other one I would mention, your rival from another

:50:44.:50:48.

organisation, The Women Who Made Politics. Absolutely excellent.

:50:49.:51:00.

Sophy Ridge from Sky. Some of your fellow parliamentarians find time to

:51:01.:51:04.

write books as well. They do indeed. In one case, their researcher wrote

:51:05.:51:14.

it. Name them! Not Johnny Mercer. Our great collie, the man known as

:51:15.:51:19.

the Prime Minister's brain, Oliver Letwin, he has got a book coming out

:51:20.:51:25.

about hearts and minds this October -- our great colleague. Partly

:51:26.:51:29.

autobiographical, Thatcher up to... And another... Ann Clwyd brought out

:51:30.:51:40.

a memoir recently. They've lot do. Is Jacob Rees Mogg going to write a

:51:41.:51:45.

book? The parliamentarian first elected in 1834 is too busy deciding

:51:46.:51:50.

whether he wants to be Speaker or leader of the party. He probably

:51:51.:51:58.

will write a book but it will be in Latin!

:51:59.:52:01.

At this point in the political year, we often ask some pundits

:52:02.:52:04.

for their predictions about the fortunes of the party

:52:05.:52:06.

leaders when normal service resumes in September.

:52:07.:52:09.

But as the pundits have proved so comprehensively

:52:10.:52:11.

useless in recent years, today we're looking

:52:12.:52:13.

elsewhere for guidance - specifically, to the stars.

:52:14.:52:15.

As I'm not, you may be surprised to learn, a great expert in studying

:52:16.:52:18.

the significance of celestial objects, we're joined

:52:19.:52:20.

now by the astrologer Alison Chester-Lambert.

:52:21.:52:21.

Alison, what are your predictions for Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn?

:52:22.:52:24.

Well, thank you. So, let us start with Jeremy Corbyn. This guy has a

:52:25.:52:34.

son in Gemini and a moon in Taurus. This makes him very young at heart

:52:35.:52:39.

and he has great appeal for the young. This year, he cannot do a lot

:52:40.:52:44.

wrong. He has some very good transits on his side. He is one to

:52:45.:52:48.

watch and definitely for the foreseeable future. Then we turn to

:52:49.:52:55.

Theresa May. She has a sun in Libra and a moon in Virgo. Her sun has

:52:56.:53:04.

echoes of Margaret Thatcher's sun in Libra but Theresa May has a little

:53:05.:53:07.

more compassion and a little less intransigence. Theresa May is not

:53:08.:53:14.

having a good year, astrology can only describe what it finds, and

:53:15.:53:18.

what we see is that she is struggling with vulnerability, she

:53:19.:53:24.

is disempowered and absolutely her strength is dwindling all of the

:53:25.:53:27.

time, especially in August of this year. She is going to struggle. We

:53:28.:53:36.

have this description of people as fatally wounded and it does not seem

:53:37.:53:41.

to get much better in the foreseeable future. Ed Vaizey,

:53:42.:53:48.

astrologically speaking, your leader is in trouble. In August! What are

:53:49.:53:55.

you going to do about it? Ask peace. I am sure she will recover -- ask

:53:56.:54:04.

Keith. She will come back fighting. I have a lot of respect for our

:54:05.:54:10.

resident astrologer. Theresa May has had difficulties. I think it can be

:54:11.:54:18.

beaten over the August... What is it? See how quickly I adapt? You

:54:19.:54:26.

pick up the lingo very quickly! I have noticed that for a while, Ed

:54:27.:54:35.

Vaizey. Many years! Not a bad astrological outlook for Mr Corbyn?

:54:36.:54:43.

The runes look good for Jeremy Corbyn, good summer and good year. I

:54:44.:54:47.

think the idea that August might be so bad that... Another general

:54:48.:54:57.

election but quickly. Your heart just sings! There we go. Back to

:54:58.:55:02.

Alison, the Brexit negotiators, David Davis for the UK, Michel

:55:03.:55:06.

Barnier for the EU, what do the stars behold for them? Right, OK,

:55:07.:55:13.

David Davis's chart, I opened his chart and I saw he had not one

:55:14.:55:20.

planet in Capricorn, four planets in Capricorn. I was thinking, there we

:55:21.:55:24.

go, strength, perseverance, power, this man has it all. Great, he is on

:55:25.:55:30.

our side. That will do. Then I opened Michel Barnier's chart and I

:55:31.:55:36.

was amazed to see he also has four planets in Capricorn. That is some

:55:37.:55:40.

coincidence. Michel Barnier seems to have the edge because his moon is in

:55:41.:55:45.

Aquarius and this can be quite intransigent and very fixed and he

:55:46.:55:54.

is a very clever strategist, quite brilliant. Oh, dear. Next year, it

:55:55.:55:59.

appears David Davis pulls through, he gets a huge boost from Pluto, as

:56:00.:56:04.

if he has been plugged into a nuclear power station, and at that

:56:05.:56:08.

point, he powers ahead. Certainly one to watch anyway. Very

:56:09.:56:13.

interesting. There you go. Remainers like you, you had better send a new

:56:14.:56:21.

computer! I have always said that David Davis was a four planets in

:56:22.:56:29.

Capricorn kind of guy. Did you know Pluto was his ally? Watch out for

:56:30.:56:32.

the nuclear power Pluto, it will take off. I think it is more Pluto

:56:33.:56:40.

in Mickey Mouse. Pluto the dog! He has the dog on his side as well! It

:56:41.:56:48.

is uncanny, four planet Capricorn man meets another. It obviously

:56:49.:56:53.

means for tight negotiations. Give us a prediction for the summer? What

:56:54.:56:59.

can we expect? I understand there is a coast-to-coast solar eclipse in

:57:00.:57:02.

America, what does that mean? Absolutely, there is. On the 21st of

:57:03.:57:07.

August, we have a coast-to-coast solar eclipse across America. These

:57:08.:57:12.

things usually happen once a century. But strangely, America has

:57:13.:57:17.

two, one on the 21st of August, another in seven years' time. This

:57:18.:57:22.

is an interesting one because if we go back to a bar baloney and times,

:57:23.:57:28.

eclipses always foretold of the fall of nations and the fall of leaders

:57:29.:57:36.

-- Babylonian times. It hits Donald Trump's chart very keenly. He is

:57:37.:57:41.

rattled by this and he looks considerably weakened by the

:57:42.:57:44.

eclipse. Who knows, another one to watch, could be exciting. Cracking

:57:45.:57:48.

stuff! You should do this every week! Yes, I agree!

:57:49.:57:53.

LAUGHTER Can you tell us, will there be

:57:54.:58:00.

another election this year? I have not looked at the astrology. I would

:58:01.:58:06.

not have thought so. I am a big fan of your analysis that surely Vince

:58:07.:58:13.

willpower to centre stage, six planets in his Capricorn. Thank you

:58:14.:58:17.

very much. Thank you very much, I enjoyed it.

:58:18.:58:20.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

:58:21.:58:23.

The question was, "David Davis' briefcase has been fitted

:58:24.:58:25.

with a device which blocks electronic signals

:58:26.:58:27.

But what have the EU side started using to stop espionage?"

:58:28.:58:30.

Was it, a, hidden camera, b, fingerprint scanners,

:58:31.:58:32.

c, invisible ink, or, d, an underwater car?

:58:33.:58:34.

So, David and Ed, what's the correct answer?

:58:35.:58:37.

Underwater car. Yes. The correct answer. No. It is fingerprinting.

:58:38.:58:46.

They have not got an underwater car. The one o'clock news is starting

:58:47.:58:49.

over on BBC One now. I will be back tonight with the

:58:50.:59:00.

final This Week of the season. Tried to join us.

:59:01.:59:06.

Promise me that you'll come and find me.

:59:07.:59:09.

Andrew Neil is joined by Conservative MP Ed Vaizey and Labour MP David Lammy. As Parliament enters the summer recess, they discuss the Brexit timetable, the Liberal Democrat leadership election and political summer reading.


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