20/07/2017 Daily Politics

Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics.

We've reached the end of the first full round of Brexit

As we come on air, chief negotiators David Davis and Michel Barnier

Barring any last-minute upsets, Vince Cable looks set to be

crowned the new king of the Liberal Democrats,

so what next for the party and why didn't anyone else want the job?

MPs leave Westmister for the summer recess today,

but can you always believe what they claim they're getting up

Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something

is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth.

And we've given up asking the pollsters or the pundits

what next for politics, so today we'll see if the fortunes

of the party leaders are written in the stars.

Even the music is running out of steam!

Yes, I forsee all of that next hour of this final Daily Politics

before Parliament rises for the summer recess.

And I'm joined for all of it by two MPs who behave like it's the end

of term most of the time anyway - it's Labour's David Lammy

First today, the new leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council

in London was officially appointed at a meeting last night,

she's taken over following the fire at the Grenfell Tower

Elizabeth Campbell said she was "deeply sorry" for the grief

and trauma caused by the fire, which left at least 80

But the council has been accused of being slow to respond

and re-house residents, and many members of the public

Councillor Campbell, would you like to address the chamber?

The victims of this tragedy have been let down. We did not cope well

enough in our initial response to the tragedy, and I know that you

have heard me apologise for our inadequate response. Tonight I

reiterate that apology to you directly. No ifs, no buts, no

excuses. So that is the new leader of

Kensington Council. There were protests in the gallery last night.

David Lammy, you have been vocal in your response, is the council now

getting a grip? They have got to, because in the end they are directly

responsible for the people of North Kensington, so they've got to get a

grip and do that with huge support from the Government. My own view is

that there should have been commissioners brought in. You think

the council should have been forced to step aside? I think so, because

there is a view that the council is too small to cope with this crisis.

But she was right to apologise and we have to move forward. In the

weeks in the aftermath, Ed Vaizey, of the Grenfell Tower tragedy, aided

seems that in Kensington Council you had to have a double-barrelled name

and looked totally out of your depth. There was a case the central

government taking over. And I think Elizabeth Campbell has apologised

and made that point. I don't think the council itself has to be

disbanded and replaced with commissioners, but it is clear that

a small council like this, any council, regardless of political

control, single barrelled names double-barrelled names, couldn't

have coped with this terrible, unprecedented tragedy. So the

Government should have stepped in sooner, and it has now stepped in.

And the London mayor lays a key role as well. But clearly it is a

national tragedy which deserves a national response, which is now

happening. The central government response, Mrs May apologised and

there was clearly something wrong with the central government response

as well. I don't think anyone is going to shy away from the fact that

the powers that be didn't get it in the first few days after it

happened, what a tragedy this was on the scale of the response. David

Lammy, do you still claim that the official death toll is far too low?

Andrew, I never claimed. What I sought to do and continue to speak

to do is speak for the victims and survivors, many of whom I know and

you know I lost a friend. It came at last night. People watched people

jumping out of windows. People knew their neighbours in this tight-knit

community, and they don't recognise the number of 80. Police have

confirmed that that is the number. They've said they think the number

will rest at 80, but they have also said there are 23 homes that they

are unsure about, and it is going to take some many months to work out

who was in the building. But you talked about suspicions of a

cover-up, the police I would take it in this situation, they are not part

of the cover-up? You are asking me a question I can't answer. Why would

the police cover it up? What I have said, and I'm clear in this, is that

there have been situations like this in the past, Hillsborough is the one

we all remember most recently, and the truth has taken 30 years to come

out. And I'm afraid many of the folks down there, me included, are

worried, and therefore my job as an elected backbencher in the Labour

Party is to be extra vigilant, extra cautious. Again, you have said the

official death toll is, quite, far, far too low. You have no evidence

for that. My evidence is something you don't have, because I suspect

you haven't spoken to as many victims as I do. With respect, that

is not evidence. Testimony of people who live in the block is pretty good

evidence. It would be evidence in a court of law. We need evidence to

show that the official death toll is far too low. And you don't have

that. Even the victims don't have it. They have their suspicions, and

a stand that, and they are right to be suspicious... Have you had

Cressida Dick on that show and asked that very question? The police have

said, the BBC have asked... Don't turn it back on me. Do you have

evidence that the official death toll is far, far too low, because

you have stated that. Do you have evidence to back it up? Andrew, as a

backbencher, I have spoken to survivors and victims. You have not

put that question to the person in charge, don't put that question to

me. You cannot make official statements like this unless you have

the evidence, otherwise you're just playing politics with a really

difficult, tragic situation. I resent the suggestion that I'm

playing politics when I have a friend that has died, and I'm

concerned that the BBC, your show, has not put the question to the

person in charge, and you are putting the question to me when I'm

speaking on the half of victims. The BBC has interviewed Cressida Dick.

Don't make claims that are untrue. I have seen no interviews with

Cressida Dick on this issue where she has talked about numbers. You

need to talk to TV a bit more, then. You have got it wrong. At least you

are on the show. You have got it wrong. You say I have got it wrong

does not make you right. And it doesn't make

you right. Once again, you are playing politics with a tragic

situation. I am not playing politics, and I resent the

suggestion about this tragedy in which I lost a friend, Andrew. Yes,

that is tragic, and it doesn't mean you get to play politics. The

viewers will make up their mind. That is very cheap. We will move

onto something little lighter. The question for today

is about the Brexit talks Last week we learned that

David Davis' briefcase has been fitted with a device which blocks

electronic signals to protect Now we've learned that

the EU side is worried about eavesdropping,

too - so what have they started Was it a) Hidden cameras b)

Fingerprint scanners c) Invisible At the end of the show,

David and Ed will give Let's stick with those talks

because today marks the conclusion of the first full round of Brexit

negotiations in Brussels The two sides are meeting

for four days each month, and Brexit Secretary

and the EU's Michel Barnier have this morning been talking

about the progress they've made - Mr Davis and Mr Barnier have been

reviewing four days of talks that have taken place

between their negotiating On the table this week have

been the thorny issues of citizen's rights,

the Irish border and Britain's financial

liabilities once we've left. By December this year,

Michel Barnier has the initial discussions to finish,

which may then lead to the start of talks on a new trade deal

with the EU starting Also by the start of 2018

the Government will want to have passed its Repeal Bill

which will convert all EU law into British law,

although opposition parties in both the Commons and the Lords

could stall its progress. By October 2018 Mr Barnier has said

he wants to have an agreement on the UK's exit deal and this

will then be put to a vote in both the Lords and the Commons

before then going to the European Parliament

for approval. Once this happens it's down

to the European Council to endorse the deal and then all being well

the UK will be out of the EU We agree on the need for certainty

on the part of citizens both in the EU and the UK, but we obviously have

different views on how we achieve that. On financial settlement, we

both recognise the importance of sorting out the obligations we have

to one another, both legally and in the spirit of mutual corporation.

We've had a robust but constructive talk. Clearly there is a lot left to

talk about and further work before we can resolve this. Ultimately

getting to a solution will require flexible at you from both sides, but

as Michel said, we shouldn't expect incremental progress in every round.

Let's speak now to our Europe correspondent, Kevin Connolly.

This press conference has just been taking place. What have we learned

so far? I had to tear myself away, so I'm not entirely sure how that is

going to end, but I think the take away from the earlier part of the

conference, which I suppose we can say would have been the message that

they both went in with was that they want to emphasise there has been

progress. Half the issues on citizens rights resolved, so

generally I think a positive take on the first really substantial talks,

getting to know the detail of each other's positions, but also of

course that overall impression that there is a tremendous amount left to

do, and that the obvious difficult issues like the European Court of

Justice are exactly that, obviously difficult and not solved yet. And

somewhere below that kind of mutual note of positivity, just a faint

note of chippiness, I think. David Davis at one point turned to Michel

Barnier and said to him, to coin a phrase, the clock is ticking, that

of course being the phrase that Michel Barnier was using earlier in

the process to imply that Britain was just not getting down to

business, and was underprepared for these talks. Mr Barnier said there

were still fundamental differences on Citizens' rights in the UK and

the EU. That was something they were hoping for progress on, but still

fundamental differences? Yes, the reality of citizens rights is that

it is on two levels, there is the political level, where the European

Union is adamant that the European Court of Justice should retain a

role in all of this and oversee those rights, even for what will be

caught the protective cohorts, the EU citizens currently living in the

UK. That would give the ECJ role in British life, for the future, you

think about people being born this year into a family living in

Britain, possibly for 100 years. And the Theresa May, any role of the ECJ

in Britain is a red line, so they have a big political and legal

problem, but alongside all of that on citizens rights you have these

tremendously conjugated issues about whether people will be able to vote

in local governor to elections in different jurisdictions in future.

What about the rights of posted workers, fun -- frontier workers,

children bought -- born into families where the older children

already have the protections and younger children may not, see you

have both of those sets of difficulties in parallel. Overall

the message is that a lot of progress is being made on a lot of

those issues, and the British viewers that the European idea that

Britain is underprepared is just wrong, but that issue of the ECJ and

its future role looms in the background. Someone is going to have

to give way on that and make a major concession, and it's not really

clear yet who that's going to be. Kevin Connolly, thank you for that.

Bringing us up-to-date on the press conference in Brussels between David

Davis and Michel Barnier. We're joined now by

the former deputy chairman Are our expectations too high? Are

we wrong to expect some kind of breakthrough on major issues at this

stage? Yes, I think our expectations are far too high and that is the

problem I have had with the whole approach to Brexit. The country has

voted to leave the EU and we are going to leave but suddenly the

interpretation of what that means seems to be held by a particular

small cabals of people who say it all has to happen by March, 2019, no

transition, and anything with the E in it or Europe, cannot have a role.

The ECJ will be an independent tribunal adjudicating on matters of

law where we have a continuing relationship with the EU which we

will have if we want to trade and if we want to give European citizens

rights and we want British citizens to have rights in Europe. It can be

tailored, it can have British judges on it, but what worries me is the

ECJ redline, people seem to confuse it with the European Court of Human

Rights. Nothing to do with the EU. Suzanne Evans, and then David Lammy.

It does look now we are heading for quite a long transition period. Let

me take apart a couple of things Ed said. I will take it apart. It is

the EU is that set the timetable, it is no good you complaining about...

It is Article 50. We triggered Article 50 under EU law. Which we

agree to. We are members of the EU. If she is going to take me apart,

she had better do it effectively! We have not even heard from David

Lammy, we will come back to you. 52% of the people voted for it and you

do the voters and your former constituents no good by claiming...

The classic trick of claiming to speak for... We have got sucked into

the quagmire of the EU, it just shows how much sovereignty we have

given away. Do you accept their will in addition to the two-year period

which is now under way under Article 50 that on a number of these issues,

there will now have to be potentially prolonged transition

periods? This is my worry. There is a deadline and we have to meet it.

We do not want this to go on and on forever. It is not in the country's

best interests. The sooner we can break free of the EU, the sooner we

can make our own trade deals and control our own borders and be

certain we are under British law. Do you think we are in for a prolonged

transition deal? If we do not get a transition deal, there is a terrible

cliff edge that while -- that will ruin our economy and jobs. It is a

myth. For business and industry, there is a cliff edge, a lot of

people in Britain will suffer. When you talk about a soft transition,

you mean joining the EAA, all of the things I have just said, is control

of borders, control of immigration, sovereignty of Parliament, that will

not be possible if we stay in the single market. Some of it depends

whether you put that control, the fantasy control, above the economy.

I know the Labour Party thinks... It has promised to control immigration.

I'm in disagreement with the bench on this. But I am saying it is a

very peculiar thing to put immigration above the economy and

without transition, we will crush the economy. Ed Vaizey, people like

Suzanne Evans and people in your own party are suspicious of a long

transition period because they think people like you will use it to be

effectively endless so that we do not me. Exactly. It is a completely

ideological approach to Brexit, completely barmy, takes no account

of people's lives, jobs, British businesses. I am a remainer but we

accept the result, there should be a transition period, we could be part

of the EAA and sensible Brexiteers are coming to that opinion. But the

Suzanne s do not give a monkeys about people's jobs. Quite

extraordinary. It shows your arrogance. Why is it arrogant to...

It is two of you against one. Show some respect and fairness here.

Boeing, yeah! You do not think we should have fairness? -- oh, yeah. I

do not think you showed me fairness earlier. Let us show fairness to

Suzanne So much has still to be decided, there will inevitably loose

ends that will require some kind of transition period now. Do you deny

that? The analogy often given is that of divorce. In some ways, it is

a bad analogy. There are children, the decree nice eye, when it is

absolute, there are inevitably consequences but go on. We have

always said we want to continue a good working relationship with the

EU. The point is we need to do this in a spirit of harmony,

communication, and what is best for our country. Let us be clear, is

leaving the EU and getting a good trade deal in particular will be of

benefit to the EU too. We have to be like responsible parent and discuss

sensibly and look at what is in both our best interests. If you look at

it logically, as a sensible Brexiteer, I do not like the fact

you are saying some of us our sensible or some not depending on

whether we agree with you. There is a potential for this to be in both

our best interests and that is the deal we should be heading for and I

hope that will come out of the press conference today. What would be left

unresolved in a transition period and how long would it be? My view,

my overview, is that we should be members of the EAA for a

transitional period. Transitional time limited... It is the... I am

trying to help people by explaining what bit EAA is. Tell our viewers

what it is and why it would be... The European Economic Area, being

part of the customs union and single market for a transition period to

trade. There is no doubt it would be time limited and we would come out.

What I want to avoid most of all is a cliff edge that takes us out of

the European Union completely in the March, 2019. How long would it take?

I have suggested five years. We remain in the single market and the

customs union... While we work out the free trade deal that we want.

You do not think the deal can be done by March of 2019? I would be

staggered, if I am proved wrong, I am proved wrong... David Lammy, is

that your position too? Would we do like to see a transition in which we

remain in the single market and the customs union? I think it transition

is essential because I absolutely disagree with Suzanne, I see no way

on the timetable in which we can negotiate a free trade deal with

Europe and negotiate our exit. There are too many big things to get

through and you have seen just in this initial week the huge disputes

over the cost of the bill and the huge dispute over what will happen

to EU residents. The idea we can move on the trade is just

impossible. Any lawyer will tell you who has negotiated on trade, it is

impossible. For that reason alone, there has to be transition. Barry

pessimistic. -- very pessimistic. We are in unique circumstances. Most

trade deals negotiated from scratch. This would be a deal which

inevitably would be less free than the current arrangement. Does that

change things in your view? We have already seen what the benefits to us

and the EU are of a free-trade deal because that is effectively what we

have at the moment, it should not be too difficult for responsible adults

to negotiate something very similar. With respect to both of you, start

to be a bit more positive. There is a part of you that thinks you want

Britain to fail on this. That is rubbish. I am not allowed to

interrupt or whatever, but that is incredibly offensive. The idea that

we want Britain to fail is ludicrous. We want to secure British

jobs. Let us agreed that we want British dogs. -- British jobs. Thank

you. If you're someone who always waits

until the last possible day before filling out an application

or your tax return, you'll know how They often wait until the last day

before the summer recess to release details of those tricky decisions

they've been thinking about. They're sometimes even accused

of trying to bury bad I am one of those people so dare I

suggest I have a little bit of sympathy for the Government. The

Government say they are trying to finish things up and the opposition

say they are trying to sneak things out. There are 22 written statements

today trickled out on the Parliament website, generally pretty normal for

this time of year for the end of term, but quite technical stuff. For

example, we find out today from Michael Fallon that one of the

Navy's new frigates will be called HMS Glasgow. Another one, the

transfer rate will remain at 12% in 2019 and 2020. Me neither. It is

significant if you are involved in farming. Interesting nuggets have

come out today for example on the railways. The electrification of the

Midland mainland and parts of the great Western Railway in South Wales

will not be electrified. The Government says it is too avoid

disruptive works that does not need to happen now because of new

technology. But many people hoped it would happen. All of this comes when

yesterday we had the announcement the state pension age will rise to

68 and that will be brought forward. It was always going to be 68 but it

was going to happen nine years later. That will affect 6 million

extra people between 39 and 47. That was pretty controversial, the

Government was accused of trying to sneak out but bad news yesterday. As

ever, Andrew, nothing much gets passed us.

Indeed. Quite right. Thanks for that.

Let's talk now about the race, if that's the right word,

to become the next Liberal Democrat leader, because nominations

for this keenly-watched contest close later today.

You will remember that Tim Farron announced his resignation

from the job last month, saying he felt his Christian

faith was incompatible with leading the party.

Here he is speaking to 5 Live last week.

Well, we've heard about people shedding tears

I'm somebody who does shed tears occasionally if things move me.

Generally not things to do with myself.

Well, actually, no, I completely held it together,

I knew what I was going to do, I made the little statement

in party headquarters, and was about to head off up north,

and I just got this lovely text from my 15-year-old saying,

"I'm very proud of you," and I had a cry then.

But that was more really the fact that it's nice being reminded

So, with nominations closing at 4pm, who are the runners and riders

Well, the first to throw his hat in the ring was the former

seat back from the Conservatives at the general election,

and he's dismissed suggestions that at 74 he is too old for the job.

Yes, Vince was the first and only one of the party's 12 MPs

to say he wanted to stand, so barring any last-minute

upsets, my professional opinion is he's fairly likely to win.

Well, we're joined now by one of those who didn't stand.

She's the party's new Education Spokeswoman, Layla Moran.

Good to see you. Why it has no one else decided to stand? Some people

considered it, I think. In the end, it has to be about who is right at

the time and a number of people thought about it in the context of

young families, for example, and decided it was not the time for them

right now. It has to be a job you want. The answer for a left-wing,

Progressive party that preaches diversity and representing

21st-century Britain is a 74-year-old white guy. Yeah, a

74-year-old white guy who also want other people to have the best

possible opportunity. You have to judge someone on what they do and

not what they looked like. The fact he is older does not matter so long

as he is championing the causes of young people. The fact he is white

does not matter so long as he is championing the causes of minority

backgrounds. I would much rather seen a woman... Why didn't you

stand? I was elected weeks ago, are you mad? That is very flattering. A

lot of MPs have a tradition of going for leadership when people do not

expect it. Maybe next time. Why has no woman decided to stand? I don't

know. I can tell you why I didn't. I was just elected. There are four of

us. That is an issue. We do definitely need more MPs if more are

going to throw their hats into the ring. If you look at the position of

the Lib Dems at the moment from where they were when they joined the

coalition in 2010, it is clearly a long fight back you are going to

have, it is not going to... The last election, you got a few more MPs,

but your share of the vote fell, no breakthrough at all. It will be

several elections before you can re-establish your position. Don't

you need somebody who was going to be there for the duration? Mr cable,

he will be, if this parliament goes its full round, he will be 80 by the

next election, almost. No future in that for you, is there? We will see

where it goes. I bought his book quite early on when I joined the

party, Free Radical. I think there are lots of progressive, young ideas

in that book. The party itself is not just one person and the Liberal

Democrats are very good at having a multitude of people feed into the

direction of the party. I agree with you, it will take us a long time to

come back, but there are signs we are. Vince Cable has said we want to

overtake the Conservatives in our membership, we are not far off, so

we are coming, Ed. The number of MPs customer not yet. You start where

you are strong. We certainly have a strong, young, vigorous membership.

From there, we will get a new crop, myself being one, and we will have

more and more people come forward and I hope the lot of them are women

and from ethnic minority backgrounds. When you go to the

conference which I have done many times... You bought me a drink, I

remember it well. You have to pass the time somehow! It is geriatric

city, isn't it? I would not say so, I was there. That is why I bought

you a drink! If you look at the make-up of 50% of members who have

joined us in the last election, it is a huge number of young people who

have joined the party who are very excited over where we are going.

What about the policy on Brexit under Vincent cable? Will that

change? No, we are proudly pro-European, we always have been

and we stay that way. I think he is taking it even further than Tim

Farron has been, and saying that he doesn't see it happening, and my

first few weeks in the house, I can see how that might work out. Your

new leader, or at least will be at close of play today, he previously

argued against a second referendum on the outcome of the Brexit talks,

but that is still your party's policy? Yes, that is the party

policy and we are strong on that. So he has changed his mind? I don't

know if he said that before, but it is certainly where we stand now, and

it looks like public opinion is coming across. A recent poll showed

that 53% with the increasingly difficult circumstances under which

these talks are taking place, I do think that there is a case, and

increasingly growing case in the eyes of many people, that is to have

a say on what finally comes out of this mess is the right thing to do.

OK. David Lammy, what do you make of the return of Vince Cable? I have

always personally got on with him as a fellow London MP. I think the Lib

Dems need a grown-up, to be honest, and he is definitely a grown-up. He

is seasoned, he has been around Parliament a long time, he knows

what he's doing. These are incredibly difficult times for our

country, and you know, the Lib Dems are currently a small party. I

suspect he's the right person at this time, but I hope that others

who are bit younger will come through in the next short while, the

next period, and we will see those people prominent in his team. I've

got a lot of affection for their position in Europe. Mr Cable...

Don't we call him Sir Vince? You don't get titles on this show. It

may be a stretch of Labour to win an overall majority in another

election, but they could do the largest party. There is room for

deals, negotiation with the Lib Dems, is that not a threat to the

Tories? Might well be room for coalitions. We will fight Labour and

the Lib Dems equally vigorously. I think they are scarred by their

experience of coalition with us, but of course we are going to win the

next election hands down, so it is a hypothetical question. Like you did

last time?! I was one of Vince's ministers in the Department of

business, and I do have a lot of time and respect for him, and I

think he will be a good and effectively do. I want to ask the

question of why the Lib Dems have broken through, and I say that in

the spirit of enquiry. I was surprised at the last election that

they didn't make the kind of breakthrough I thought they might do

with Remain voters perhaps effectively punishing... That was

the strategy, but it didn't seem to... We can't talk you into a

last-minute bid? I'm very flattered, thank you, but no. From you, that is

very flattering. The drinks are on you next time! Absolutely.

The Commons and the Lords rise for summer recess today,

leaving Westminster to the tourists until September.

Of course, MPs have plenty of work to do back home

in their constituencies, but most of them will probably be

taking a holiday too and Theresa May has been telling the Tories to go

Cynics might suggest that's in part so they don't spend the summer

Jeremy Corbyn had a different message.

He told Labour MPs that they needed to help him mount a summer election

He really knows how to enjoy himself.

That's the question Emma Vardy put to MPs.

# We're going where the sun shines brightly

# We're going where the skies are blue

I hope it's a summer of beauty, kindness,

everyone getting on with each other, resolving our differences and trying

Well, everybody has a break, don't they?

Do think the plotting against Theresa May may calm down,

or do you think it's going to rumble on over summer?

I don't think people want to plot against the Prime Minister.

I think what we want to do is have a Government that is driving

forward with a strong agenda as well as dealing with Brexit.

I think everybody needs a summer break.

I don't think MPs are underworked or they take too long

I suppose you would think of me as part of the union

I think a lot of people are heading off.

Everybody that's actually going to go to Aruba or something

is pretending that they're actually going to go to Aberystwyth, because

Are you a sort of cocktails on the beach man, or a walking

Our constituency has some fantastic beaches,

so I suppose I'll be doing a lot of that, walking on the beach.

We've got a food festival in September as well,

But actually, above all, it's just an opportunity

to spend time with residents in the constituency.

And we're joined now by Julia Hobsbawm.

She's the author of a book called Fully Connected -

Surviving and Thriving in an Age of Overload, and she's been

writing about the important of switching off on holiday.

Welcome to the programme. Hello. There is a time of great political

change, Labour hopes there will be a slap election -- snap election. The

Government mired in bricks and negotiations. Is this really a good

time from holiday. Probably not, and even if it is, it is difficult to

do, because Every has got their smartphone, which they need to board

the plane with, or they need their smart maps. 60% of us go online on

our mobiles, so even if we want to disconnect, it's actually really

hard to do. But as you are pointing out, psychologically, we are now

pretty embedded in these networks, and it is very difficult to say,

thanks, I'm taking a break. It is difficult in the sense of just

switching off and not looking at the smartphone or consulting the iPad

while we are away, at least for a period of time. Do you recommend

that we do? I think each person, it is a bit like diet and fitness. You

have to find your own strategy. But having no strategy is a bad idea.

We have infobesity like we have a obesity. It is not easy to do, but I

certainly think that having rules and regulations saying I will be

online for this amount of time per day, or I am going to actually have

some time when I just turn my mobile off. I have a day when I turn my

technology off, and one day a week, I am disconnected. Of course I cheat

sometimes, but I try not to. And it really makes a difference. It really

makes a difference to just read and talk and be face-to-face and not on

Facebook. I would definitely say nobody should be on Facebook over

the holidays. You have to cut the cord. Politicians are exhausted at

the moment. This has been an exhausting period. We all are, we

are all completely overloaded. There is more data now produced in a

single year than in the whole of human history. We are drowning. So

the answer isn't to stuff ourselves with more information, and these

rolling feeds and rolling news make people edgy, so I think that our

social health, as I put it, which is everything to do with how we

connect, you have to, because actually politicians that lack

social health, and I exclude these two fine gentleman, time and time

again you see an absence of social health where people are so

overloaded, they are not making sensible decisions, and they are

tuning out anyway. David Lammy, will you switch your phone off? I think I

want to take Julia as my therapist! This is fantastic. I would

definitely be literally putting the phones in a drawer and chatting

away. And the reason for that is we have had a general election which

went on for a very long time. We have then had a very tough period in

politics, and certainly Grenfell has been at the forefront. I want to

spend time with my wife and kids. I have a three-year-old. I want to

read the Gruffalo, more than once. And that is a very good aim indeed,

but how long will the phones be in the draw? Half an hour!

LAUGHTER I feared you might say that. To be

fair, you have a little luck in the morning after breakfast, and then

you put them away, and there are staff, wonderful staff, who are able

that only, you can be away, and if summary said to me once, if a plane

falls on your constituency, the Prime Minister will deal with it.

Good luck with that! That's true! According to Mr Corbyn, you are

meant to be campaigning in 75 marginal seats. Are we? Yes! He

can't do it all himself. It is going to be minus David Lammy friendlies

two weeks. Didn't you go to the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting

this week? I have to confess I wasn't there. You were looking at

your mobile phone! That is what he said, he said that they are looking

forward to a long recess, but my bad news is that they are not getting

one, that's you, not you personally but Labour MPs, because they have

got to go campaigning. I want to disagree publicly on that. I

honestly think we need a rest, we need a quiet, we need a period where

it is not politics, we are talking about EastEnders or something.

Productivity around the world is stagnant, stress levels are soaring,

so this fully connected life is not yielding the benefits we have been

promised, but we have to want to make behavioural changes, and I'm

reminded about that joke, how many Californian psychoanalysts does it

take to change a light bulb? One, but the light bulb has to want to

change. You have to want to disconnect, or you will find a

million reasons not to. You will want to disconnect, otherwise how

could you continue to plot with fellow Tories against Theresa May? I

hate holidays anywhere! I get so bored on holiday, so my phone comes

out the minute we arrive on holiday, and a good holiday for me is using

my phone and not seeing my children for two weeks. Absolutely perfect. I

would be plotting against Theresa May, but after my row with Suzanne

Evans, I will have to spend the next three months on Twitter batting off

the Ukip is coming for Mr letting my country down. He is a lost cause! He

isn't, he has bought my book and he is halfway through it. He wants to

change, here's the light bulb. I haven't had a chance to read it, I

have been on Twitter! We will leave you to it.

So, assuming MPs do get at least some time off over the summer,

like the rest of us, they'll be looking for a good book to read.

And if they don't fancy the latest Dan Brown,

then luckily for them, the MP Keith Simpson produces an annual

OK, not all of us were on the BBC's talent rich list yesterday,

but who needs Honolulu when you've got the Costa del Thames?

Besides, doesn't matter where you are when your

Making the list this year, three authors whose other

Ann Clwyd's a very personal memoir, Johnny Mercer writes

about his time in Afghanistan, and Chris Bryant critiques

If the process of government is your thing, you're in luck.

There are, for example, three titles which look

into what the Cabinet Secretary does and one about the Prime Minister's

As ever, there are some good reads on the world wars,

from the battlefield of Passchendaele,

the resistance to the Nazis, and turncoat Gestapo agents.

Of course, there are authors who have done plenty of digging

into history and unearthed some real factual gems.

There are diamonds and Romans and husband hunters,

Theresa May told her MPs to relax this summer.

For those who really can't take their minds off

plotting, there is also a book about Machiavelli.

Now, you might need a longer holiday than you thought.

The list covers all sorts of subjects and there are 42

It's pretty heavy going, so you may consider packing a little

There are 40 books on your list, do you present this to your fellow MPs

as a selection or they should read the 40? It is a pick and mix. The

whips like to think they will read the 40. David has just said it

should be fiction and my wife would agree. Every MP invariably says to

me, I do want to read one proper nonfiction book. All I do and I have

read a lot of them is draw a cross-section. You do this every

year? It started ten years ago when I was working with William Hague and

I did it as a joke and it caught on. Have you read all 40? I have read

two thirds. Why are you recommending once you have not read? They are

ones other colleagues have read and I have looked at them and thought, I

am going to get around to reading them. If you had, say, only one book

that you had to recommend. An MP says, I have only time for one book.

What would it be? It would actually be my colleague Johnny Mercer's

book. I always look out for books written by colleagues. Johnny

arrived in 2015, Central office said he would never take a seat off

Labour, he got re-elected, he was a regular soldier. I thought, I knew

what it would be like. I had no idea he was brought up in an incredibly

strict Baptist household. All kinds of problems with his parents.

Eventually went into the army, served three tours in Afghanistan.

He writes brilliantly. He had a very good friend shot next to him which

traumatised him. He decided he would go into politics the Conservative

Party and he has worked hard at it. Afghanistan has dropped off our

vision. Seven, eight years ago, we were all concerned with it. I can

really recommend it. It is pretty earthy. One soldier's story about

brutal combat. It came out at the beginning of the general election

and his agent managed to get it listed and extracts from it in the

Daily Mail in the middle of the election. The list is quite serious.

Quite heavyweight. Don't MPs deserve a bit of light relief as well? Yeah,

they can do that. They can dip into a well-known book shop or go on to

Amazon and get novels. I have... I don't know if it is sexist. Several

female MPs have said to me, including recently a Labour MP,

look, Keith, when is your book list coming out? My husband is pretty

good with the kids on the beach for the first week, but after that, he

wants one heavyweight book to read. What about a history book? I would

recommend One Hot Summer. The author has taken 1858 and it is relevant

because she weaves together three great characters. Disraeli,

Chancellor of the Exchequer, Darwin, Origins Of The Species, 1858, he

rushed it out, and Dickens, going through a rather messy divorce. It

is about Parliament as well and 1858 was a horrendous hot summer. The

Thames stank. There were no proper sewers. As often the case,

Parliament panicked and we brought through a whole series of bills

which enabled the engineers but the embankment and everything else. It

is funny as well. They are building a new super sewer down the Thames

these days. We hope it will work. David Lammy, have you decided, any

of these books catch your fancy? I thought it was all a bit heavy but

you have now persuaded me I have got to buy Johnny Mercer's book.

Otherwise it is Lee Childs for me. I want something like, nonfiction,

easy. Heavy politics put to one side. I can understand that. All of

this effort... Understandably... It is also quite hard to read a heavy

book in the sun. You need something... What is your reading

list? This is why you bring David and I together. My answer is

identical. Johnny Mercer's book, it has had incredible reviews and I am

definitely now going to read it. I will obviously take that free copy.

Not before I do! Lee Child is my default option on holiday. Keith

sticks to politics. East-west Street I am also very keen to read and a

must read if you want to sound sophisticated about the future of

the planet. The other one I would mention, your rival from another

organisation, The Women Who Made Politics. Absolutely excellent.

Sophy Ridge from Sky. Some of your fellow parliamentarians find time to

write books as well. They do indeed. In one case, their researcher wrote

it. Name them! Not Johnny Mercer. Our great collie, the man known as

the Prime Minister's brain, Oliver Letwin, he has got a book coming out

about hearts and minds this October -- our great colleague. Partly

autobiographical, Thatcher up to... And another... Ann Clwyd brought out

a memoir recently. They've lot do. Is Jacob Rees Mogg going to write a

book? The parliamentarian first elected in 1834 is too busy deciding

whether he wants to be Speaker or leader of the party. He probably

will write a book but it will be in Latin!

At this point in the political year, we often ask some pundits

for their predictions about the fortunes of the party

leaders when normal service resumes in September.

But as the pundits have proved so comprehensively

useless in recent years, today we're looking

elsewhere for guidance - specifically, to the stars.

As I'm not, you may be surprised to learn, a great expert in studying

the significance of celestial objects, we're joined

now by the astrologer Alison Chester-Lambert.

Alison, what are your predictions for Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn?

Well, thank you. So, let us start with Jeremy Corbyn. This guy has a

son in Gemini and a moon in Taurus. This makes him very young at heart

and he has great appeal for the young. This year, he cannot do a lot

wrong. He has some very good transits on his side. He is one to

watch and definitely for the foreseeable future. Then we turn to

Theresa May. She has a sun in Libra and a moon in Virgo. Her sun has

echoes of Margaret Thatcher's sun in Libra but Theresa May has a little

more compassion and a little less intransigence. Theresa May is not

having a good year, astrology can only describe what it finds, and

what we see is that she is struggling with vulnerability, she

is disempowered and absolutely her strength is dwindling all of the

time, especially in August of this year. She is going to struggle. We

have this description of people as fatally wounded and it does not seem

to get much better in the foreseeable future. Ed Vaizey,

astrologically speaking, your leader is in trouble. In August! What are

you going to do about it? Ask peace. I am sure she will recover -- ask

Keith. She will come back fighting. I have a lot of respect for our

resident astrologer. Theresa May has had difficulties. I think it can be

beaten over the August... What is it? See how quickly I adapt? You

pick up the lingo very quickly! I have noticed that for a while, Ed

Vaizey. Many years! Not a bad astrological outlook for Mr Corbyn?

The runes look good for Jeremy Corbyn, good summer and good year. I

think the idea that August might be so bad that... Another general

election but quickly. Your heart just sings! There we go. Back to

Alison, the Brexit negotiators, David Davis for the UK, Michel

Barnier for the EU, what do the stars behold for them? Right, OK,

David Davis's chart, I opened his chart and I saw he had not one

planet in Capricorn, four planets in Capricorn. I was thinking, there we

go, strength, perseverance, power, this man has it all. Great, he is on

our side. That will do. Then I opened Michel Barnier's chart and I

was amazed to see he also has four planets in Capricorn. That is some

coincidence. Michel Barnier seems to have the edge because his moon is in

Aquarius and this can be quite intransigent and very fixed and he

is a very clever strategist, quite brilliant. Oh, dear. Next year, it

appears David Davis pulls through, he gets a huge boost from Pluto, as

if he has been plugged into a nuclear power station, and at that

point, he powers ahead. Certainly one to watch anyway. Very

interesting. There you go. Remainers like you, you had better send a new

computer! I have always said that David Davis was a four planets in

Capricorn kind of guy. Did you know Pluto was his ally? Watch out for

the nuclear power Pluto, it will take off. I think it is more Pluto

in Mickey Mouse. Pluto the dog! He has the dog on his side as well! It

is uncanny, four planet Capricorn man meets another. It obviously

means for tight negotiations. Give us a prediction for the summer? What

can we expect? I understand there is a coast-to-coast solar eclipse in

America, what does that mean? Absolutely, there is. On the 21st of

August, we have a coast-to-coast solar eclipse across America. These

things usually happen once a century. But strangely, America has

two, one on the 21st of August, another in seven years' time. This

is an interesting one because if we go back to a bar baloney and times,

eclipses always foretold of the fall of nations and the fall of leaders

-- Babylonian times. It hits Donald Trump's chart very keenly. He is

rattled by this and he looks considerably weakened by the

eclipse. Who knows, another one to watch, could be exciting. Cracking

stuff! You should do this every week! Yes, I agree!

LAUGHTER Can you tell us, will there be

another election this year? I have not looked at the astrology. I would

not have thought so. I am a big fan of your analysis that surely Vince

willpower to centre stage, six planets in his Capricorn. Thank you

very much. Thank you very much, I enjoyed it.

There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz.

The question was, "David Davis' briefcase has been fitted

with a device which blocks electronic signals

But what have the EU side started using to stop espionage?"

Was it, a, hidden camera, b, fingerprint scanners,

c, invisible ink, or, d, an underwater car?

So, David and Ed, what's the correct answer?

Underwater car. Yes. The correct answer. No. It is fingerprinting.

They have not got an underwater car. The one o'clock news is starting

over on BBC One now. I will be back tonight with the

final This Week of the season. Tried to join us.

Promise me that you'll come and find me.