04/09/2017 Daily Politics


04/09/2017

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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics,

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our first programme back after the summer break, and guess

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With Brexit talks over the summer, little progress between the two

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The government faces a key test of its authority this week when MPs

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debate draft legislation on withdrawing from the EU.

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The PM, who's in Japan at the moment, says she's

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going to hang on in there and fight the next election.

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There's even talk of a reshuffle to bring potential Tory

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We'll be talking to new Tory darling, Jacob Rees-Mogg.

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We'll take a look back over Donald Trump's eventful summer.

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It's been a tough time for the President and it could get

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tougher following claims by North Korea that it's tested

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And as the nation returns to the grindstone, we'll be asking

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what could make your commute to work more bearable.

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Well, one travel expert gives us his opinion.

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How can we make rail passengers happy? I say it's time to put up

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train fares! All that in the next hour,

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and with us for the whole of the programme today,

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two of Westminster's finest, fresh-faced and invigorated

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following their summer break. Labour's Angela Eagle and

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the Conservative MP, David Jones. Angela's been writing a book

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all summer and David tells us he's been visiting a lot

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of agricultural shows. And if that doesn't fill your heart

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with warmth, the Duchess of Cambridge has announced she's

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expecting her third child. So, have you been walking in any

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mountings recently? Wales is very mountainous, I've done little else.

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I have done an awful lot of visiting agricultural shows which is what I

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mostly do in August. And the high point of your summer? My summer

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personally, it was going for to date Italy to visit a battlefield where

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my father fought in the Second World War. An emotional event for you.

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What about you, where you are following in the footsteps of Jeremy

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Corbyn and traipsing around marginal constituencies? No, I have been

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actually in deep in reading, and thought, about right-wing Tory

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economic policy. What fun for the summer! So that I can debunk it so I

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can do that in a book, I can't say a lot more at the moment, it out next

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year. So how you getting on with it? It's coming together. Sounds like

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quite a heavy Reid. I'm going to try and put some jokes in. Did you see

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Jeremy Corbyn perform at the Edinburgh fringe? I wasn't in the

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audience but I think it's important to have presence at all cultural

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event and Jeremy does that. What about this feeling of Groundhog Day,

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talking more about Brexit. And that is going to be what really dominates

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the next few weeks of this short session that we have in autumn. We

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have got the withdrawal bill coming through and that's going to be

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interesting, and I am sure that we are looking forward to seeing the

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way it develops. Are you looking forward to it, is it like Groundhog

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Day? Parliament is a particular place, you get a bit of extra

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scaffolding but not much else has changed. The Brexit bill will be a

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crucial part of the two weeks and we are going to have to make sure that

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are built that at the moment is not fit for purpose is considerably

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improved or we will not be going through the lobbies in support. Food

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for thought. What about the position papers, have you read all of them? I

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read most of them. You must have slept well. I am a swot. I read most

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of them. Which was your favourite? Adore the one on judicial

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Corporation was a classic of its kind. They reminded me of a series

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of fantasy books, they didn't have a lot to do with reality. It's about

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time the government start coming up with some actual detail about what

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they need... We will come to all of this, good to see party politics is

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alive and kicking in the first two minutes of the show!

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Last week the Prime Minister announced, to the suprise of many

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I think it's fair to say, that she wasn't a quitter

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and would lead the Tories into the next election.

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Well, let's talk now to Jacob Rees-Mogg, who emerged

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as the unexpected favourite over the summer to take her place.

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Are you on the news as? Of course I'm not, and you give me the

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splendid backdrop, photo shopped in. You are already in Downing Street! I

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haven't become your special Downing Street correspondent, but that would

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be a wonderful job to have. You have to be impartial and balanced. Unlike

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many people at the BBC, we will let that go! You are standing in front

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of number ten, how does it feel? It feels as fake as it is, I'm actually

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in a studio a few yards away from you. Are you and -- ambitious for a

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ministerial job? I am ambitious only to return to North Somerset and

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contribute to the development of ideas in the Conservative Party. I

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very much look forward to Angela's book because she is one of the most

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thoughtful members of the opposition and it will be very useful for

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conservatives to see how non-conservatives attack our views

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and positions, to see if we can remake the case back again. I think

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this battle of ideas it is so exciting, and it's what our system

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does so well. Wouldn't you be better placed to challenge what Angela is

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going to say in her book, and you have got over reader waiting. That

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is one, it is a start! You would be better doing it from a ministerial

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post, wouldn't you? We would have a lot more freedom to discuss issues

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from the backbenches because I'm not bound by collective responsibility.

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I do not have constraint upon me on what I'm allowed to say. And that's

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an easier position to be in and discussion board issues rather than

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ministers, -- and discuss broader issues. Are you surprised to find

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yourself as a frontrunner for a leadership which isn't yet vacant?

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I'm as astonished as you are. It's all jolly August stuff and now we're

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in September I imagine it will calm down. Where you disappointed by

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Theresa May's declaration that she's going to stay on and fight the next

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election? No, Isaac it's the right thing to say. Leaders need to give a

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clear guide to their intention to carry on. I understood why David

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Cameron said that he was going to go when he did, before the 2015

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election, but once leaders say that, their authority seat away and

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authority in politics is crucial for the ability to get things done. From

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some of the directions from backbenches, not you necessarily, I

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think there was incredulity that there was a declaration, she said

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she would leave it to the party to decide, but she would carry on. All

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leaders are servants of their party in some way and they cannot carry on

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if the party doesn't want them to use that will remain true. I would

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be very suspicious of anonymous briefings that tends to be by people

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who have other motives, all teary at its for saying things. Let's have

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people come out -- have all teary motives for saying things. Let's

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have people come out publicly. They were not all anonymous, some people

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were prepared to say publicly that they were surprised that she had

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declared such a thing having lost the Tory majority. Those comments

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were very politely and diffidently put, I do not think anyone said it

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was in possible or unreasonable. If you were asked to step up to the

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ministerial plate, there was talk of a reshuffle but that was quashed by

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Number ten, you would serve? When Mrs May was asked directly, she

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giggled, so I think my chances of a summons were limited. Boris Johnson

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became Foreign Secretary and some people thought that would be

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interesting. He is a great man and an inspirational representative of

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us a road. What would you do if you were offered a ministerial position?

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Imagine a little bit like that backdrop behind you, it is fake,

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you're not really in down the street, but just imagine there was a

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ministerial post, what would you like? This isn't going to happen,

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I'm very happy serving the people of North East Somerset, that's my role

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and that's what I enjoy doing. To start putting oneself forward is a

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great mistake. Heaven knows, next you'll be offering me the papacy.

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Yes, we've got time for that! Thank you very much, you can leave the

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studio now. Thank you The question

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The question for today is what did Brexit Secretary David Davis refer

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The future prime ministers, a charming bustard, soft and current

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cuddly, or Lazarus? Now, while our guests have been off

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sipping sangria and catching up on all those novels published

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since the 23rd June last year, the process

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of Brexit continues apace. It hasn't been much of a holiday

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for David Davis and Michel Barnier, nor for the hundreds of civil

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servants on each side engaged in trying to extricate the UK

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from the EU before March 2019. So what's been happening

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over the break? There have been two rounds

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of talks between the UK These have been dominated

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by discussions on citizens' rights, the Irish border and the financial

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settlement between the EU and UK. Over the summer, the UK

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released 11 position papers on Brexit, to go

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with the EU's nine. Future customs arrangements

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were covered, as well as citizens' But at a tense press

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conference last week, European Commission negotiator

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Michel Barnier said "no decisive While Brexit Secretary David Davis

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urged the EU to be "more imaginative The big sticking point is over

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the size of the UK's divorce bill, the financial settlement

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the UK will pay the EU. The UK side believe the EU's sums

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don't add up but the EU has accused the UK of refusing

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to honour its obligations. This weekend Michel Barnier has said

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part of his job is to educate the UK about the price of leaving

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the single market. This matters, because talks can't

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progress onto phase 2, the future relationship

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between the UK and EU, before sufficient progress

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on the matters of separation, including the divorce

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bill, have been agreed. Meanwhile, Labour announced a shift

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in its Brexit position this summer to staying inside the single

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market and customs union This could mean keeping free

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movement of people and other EU rules beyond March 2019,

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when the UK will leave the EU. On Thursday the government

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faces its first big Brexit-related test of the new parlimentary session

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with the second reading That was almost as long as the whole

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negotiation! Where 13 months on from the referendum vote, over six months

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after Article 50, what concrete achievements can you list? There has

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been progress, there has been a series of talks. The big issue as

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you rightly said in your introduction is the question of

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money, no doubt. It's now up to the EU how they calculate their demands.

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They need to tell us. We have seen a number of demands from 60 billion to

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100 billion, and none have been computed. We will talk about the

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precise money at the moment but you haven't answered the question on

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what concrete achievements you can point to. There have been some

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achievements, last week there was agreement as to the issue of health

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care for expats living in the EU and the U UK. That isn't really a major

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issue. Not in terms of the divorce Bill, EU citizens leaving -- living

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here and UK citizens abroad. We have to understand that the EU has struck

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its position and made it clear that it wants agreement on the issues

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that you outlined in your introduction. And for so long as

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they actually maintain that position, there will be no progress

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which is why David Davies quite rightly said the other day that we

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need to see some more flexibility and imagination on the part of the

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EU, because if, for example, they insist on resolving the Irish

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question before resolving the issue of trading arrangements, we will

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never get anywhere. He published these papers which didn't really say

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anything in terms of what he wanted to achieve, it was very much about

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aspiration, I read a number of them. There isn't much progress on the

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issue of the Irish border and on citizens rights and the clock is

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ticking towards March 2019 and you blame the commission for being

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intransigent, but you know what Michel Barnier's mandate was from

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the other 27 member states so why you complaining? I'm complaining

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about the fact that he is quite clearly constrained by the mandate

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you have been given. But you agreed to it, he agreed to settling the

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divorce Bill first before moving to talk about a trade deal. Until such

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time that we can agree a future relationship, we won't get anywhere.

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So why did David Davies signed up to doing it, he was wrong? I have not

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been in the Brexit Department for a while. What I would say is this,

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until such time as the EU recognise that there's got to be agreement as

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to the future relationship, which is actually prescribed in Article 50

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itself, we will not make progress and it's as much in their interests

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to get that progress as ours. So you want the government to state that it

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wants to change how these negotiations are handled, that

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you're not going to settle the divorce Bill? No, what I want is the

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EU to recognise that Article 50 prescribed that the future

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relationship is something that has to be considered now and this is

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something that they're failing to do.

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What is wrong with the EU saying you need to meet your obligations that

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you signed up to when the UK said it would honour its financial

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commitment in the seven-year multiannual framework? There's

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nothing wrong with fulfilling our obligations, the question is what

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they are. Are they those - should we pay for the seven years to 2020?

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Well, we clearly do have about only Gration to make some payment and I

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think everybody agrees that. I think the important thing is that the EU

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shouldn't be coming up with firs they've clearly plucked out of the

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air like 100 billion euro. It's a negotiation isn't it? But rather

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saying how they've calculated their demands. Over the weekend we saw the

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figure of 50 billion mooted as the amount of the so-called divorce

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bill. If that figure was spread over a transitional period, would you

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accept it for frictionless tariff free trade with the EU? No. I don't

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think we should be paying to trade. I don't think you pay a trading

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partner to trade with you. We need to have a proper calculation of the

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way that the EU have come up with this sum and then say yes, let's

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talk about it. At the moment, they are not doing it. Labour's changed

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its position, Angela Eagle, when it comes to the EU and the

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negotiations. Jeremy Corbyn sacked three MPs for voting for an

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amendment. Now Labour is saying it wants to stay in the single market

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and customs union during the transitional period so should they

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get their jobs back? Firstly it's for Jeremy to make his own Shadow

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Cabinet up but I think the key thing that hasn't changed is that we've

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always said jobs and the economy have to come first and what Keir

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Starmer's been saying just recently over summer is that at least for the

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transition period, we need to stay in the customs union and the single

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market. That is a change in position though from the manifesto? Let me

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give you an example of why. Just up the road from my constituency, there

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is the Ellesmere Port automotive plant. When I visited them, they do

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70%-odd of their trade with Europe. The supply chain is completely mixed

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up across Europe. They told me that coming out of the customs union

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would cost an extra 125 million a year just for that plant. But you

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are not honouring the result of the referendum. Of course we are. No you

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are not. Hang on. That put all of that trade and all of the jobs that

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my constituents do at risk. The people who voted to leave the EU...

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It's not what Labour said. Can I remind you what they said. Hang on,

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Angela Eagle. In the manifesto, it states very clearly that Labour will

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end freedom of movement, one of the four pillars of the single market.

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In order to end free movement, it means you leave the single market.

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If March 2019 is the date the UK leaves under Labour, we won't leave,

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we'll still be in the single markets and customs union and we'll still

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have the European Court of Justice making laws that the UK will have to

:18:56.:19:00.

buy and -- will have to abide by and nothing will have changed. We said

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we'd put jobs and the economy first for a very good reason. As the All

:19:06.:19:10.

Party Group that published its report on customs ahead of the

:19:11.:19:14.

Government a couple of weeks ago demonstrated, leaving the customs

:19:15.:19:17.

union and the single market potentially puts the cost of ?25

:19:18.:19:22.

billion a year. Into the far future... What do you say to the 49%

:19:23.:19:27.

who voted to leave in Wallasey? What I'm going to say to them and what I

:19:28.:19:30.

said to them and have always said to them is, we are trying to get the

:19:31.:19:34.

best deal. We need a Government that wants to engage and get a good deal.

:19:35.:19:39.

What we've got is a sort of Government led by a zombie Prime

:19:40.:19:43.

Minister who is in the middle of being dealt with by people who want

:19:44.:19:47.

to succeed her who can't make progress in Europe. It's 13-14

:19:48.:19:52.

months after the referendum, we've made no progress. The clock is

:19:53.:19:57.

ticking. Time is running out. They've got a point haven't they?

:19:58.:20:01.

They haven't because the time when they should have been making the

:20:02.:20:06.

objections was when the notification of Bill went through. That went

:20:07.:20:09.

through completely unamended. Now we have the Labour Party in an utterly

:20:10.:20:15.

incoherent position. No we are not. Their position is career -- clear

:20:16.:20:21.

but it's changed. Tom Watson is saying we need to remain in the

:20:22.:20:28.

customs union and the single market. Could you see a situation where you

:20:29.:20:32.

would support the UK staying in the single market in perpetuity? I

:20:33.:20:35.

wouldn't personally object to that. That is not our frontbench position.

:20:36.:20:39.

But let me say this, it's really important that this is a negotiate

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#14u7b and that we get the best possible deal -- negotiation. You

:20:44.:20:49.

don't do that by striking vein glorious posers like the Government

:20:50.:20:55.

has. The clock is ticking down. My constituents' prosperity is at stake

:20:56.:20:59.

here. Jobs, future prospects - it's really important the Government gets

:21:00.:21:02.

this right. This is about an issue of trust. One out of ten. That is

:21:03.:21:05.

the view of my two guests. So that's the view of two MPs

:21:06.:21:11.

but what do you make of the government's

:21:12.:21:14.

negotiating efforts so far? Ellie and the moodbox came out

:21:15.:21:16.

of summer hibernation to find out. One of only five boroughs of London

:21:17.:21:19.

who voted to leave in last It was also home for more

:21:20.:21:23.

than 50 years to Ted Heath, a Tory who arguably got us

:21:24.:21:27.

into all this EU stuff So, the perfect place

:21:28.:21:29.

to ask the question, do you have confidence

:21:30.:21:32.

in the government's handling I just think they don't really

:21:33.:21:34.

know what they're doing. When we voted for Brexit,

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we voted for a clean break, now it's all a little bit

:21:44.:21:58.

here and a little bit there and sooner or later we're

:21:59.:22:01.

still going to be tied I'm going to have to be confident

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and say yes, because in the end, Do you have confidence in

:22:05.:22:08.

the government to negotiate Brexit? All we can do is say,

:22:09.:22:13.

hope for the best. Boris Johnson just sums it up,

:22:14.:22:19.

he's an idiot abroad, and if that's our face,

:22:20.:22:32.

of what we're planning to do, They can negotiate a deal,

:22:33.:22:37.

whether it will be a good I don't think that the

:22:38.:22:44.

Europeans actually want us Um...I'm going to be positive,

:22:45.:22:48.

yes. Sir, good deal on Brexit, Do you trust the government

:22:49.:23:01.

to deliver a decent deal on breakfast, I mean,

:23:02.:23:15.

Brexit? So no love lost in Brussels

:23:16.:23:18.

whether divorce negotiations are well underway and it would seem

:23:19.:23:30.

good people of Bexley It was a close run thing but it

:23:31.:23:34.

seems there isn't a great deal of confidence in the government's

:23:35.:23:40.

negotiations so far. You can understand why people don't

:23:41.:23:54.

have trust in the Government, some people. Theresa May said she'd cut

:23:55.:23:58.

net migration to the tens of thousands, she didn't. She said

:23:59.:24:02.

there would be no snap election, then she called one and she lost the

:24:03.:24:07.

Tory majority. Why would she inspire confidence? I would say, by the way,

:24:08.:24:12.

that moodbox showed possibly a fairly even split which reflected

:24:13.:24:16.

the referendum outcome so I think possibly people were continuing the

:24:17.:24:19.

sentiment. And the answer to my question? I think that what we have

:24:20.:24:26.

seen so far is a positive approach to the Brexit issue. But I'm talking

:24:27.:24:30.

about trust in Theresa May. Why would she inspire confidence,

:24:31.:24:33.

bearing in mind what's happened? Because I believe that her approach

:24:34.:24:36.

has been proven to be entirely correct. We had a proper period

:24:37.:24:40.

analysing the British economy which was the right thing to do. We then

:24:41.:24:45.

published a White Paper, we then had the notification of the withdrawal

:24:46.:24:48.

Bill. But that's process, anyone could have done that. But the

:24:49.:24:53.

process is absolutely essential. Are you pleased she said she will stay

:24:54.:24:57.

on for the full five years and stay there until the next general

:24:58.:25:02.

election? As Jacob Rees-Mogg said, we need to seed our leader lead. She

:25:03.:25:07.

is saying she intends to be there to take us through Brexit. I understand

:25:08.:25:11.

that. Do you think she will. I do. Do you support her? Of course I do.

:25:12.:25:16.

It's essential that we take this country out of the European Union on

:25:17.:25:19.

the best possible terms and she's the right person to do it. There is

:25:20.:25:23.

a war goingen in the Conservative Party at the moment about who the

:25:24.:25:27.

next leader is going to be and it's clear that Theresa May isn't going

:25:28.:25:31.

to lead them into the next... Why is it clear Because they know... Who

:25:32.:25:35.

would be the next one then? Who knows. They had a clear... That's a

:25:36.:25:42.

problem... She would have been gone already. George Osborne has

:25:43.:25:49.

described Theresa May's premiership as a second rate horror show. He's

:25:50.:25:53.

described her as a dead woman walking. Do you believe Jeremy

:25:54.:25:58.

Corbyn will endure into the next election or lead you into the next

:25:59.:26:01.

election? You are running the country at a crucial time for our

:26:02.:26:06.

future history. You are the the alternative Government. Do you think

:26:07.:26:10.

Jeremy Corbyn will lead you there. I am sure he will. Would you like to

:26:11.:26:14.

see him do that? He did a good job in the election and if he wants to

:26:15.:26:17.

lead us into the next one, he will. Was it a difficult thing to persuade

:26:18.:26:22.

him... It's worrying about losing to Labour that's knocking the Prime

:26:23.:26:26.

Minister off her Perch. Well, on that basis, this idea that MPs need

:26:27.:26:30.

to back Brexit or get Jeremy Corbyn, what is the problem with amending a

:26:31.:26:34.

piece of legislation, the withdrawal Bill, how is it you get Jeremy

:26:35.:26:37.

Corbyn if you back an amendment? Because now is not the time to do

:26:38.:26:41.

it. The time for amendments... You don't get Jeremy Corbyn do you

:26:42.:26:46.

from... No, no, no, the time for amendments was the notification of

:26:47.:26:50.

the withdrawal Bill. We crossed the rule bill within parent I'm sorry.

:26:51.:26:58.

So Anna Soubry, is she a traitor? She'll have to consider where her

:26:59.:27:03.

loyalty lies. Or? Thing is what she needs to do. I think... We are going

:27:04.:27:08.

to come back to you. Ministers need the power to change law on Labour

:27:09.:27:11.

law without referring to Parliament. That's not true. We are going to

:27:12.:27:15.

discuss this later in the week when it comes back to Parliament on

:27:16.:27:20.

Thursday. Have you spoken to Tory backbenchers to support you by the

:27:21.:27:25.

way on that Plenty of that going on. How many? I'm not going to discuss

:27:26.:27:30.

that. That might be the problem. But it's happening is it? Are you

:27:31.:27:35.

worried about that? We have a few that will be supported too.

:27:36.:27:36.

Earlier I spoke to the Polish MEP Danuta Hubner, and I started

:27:37.:27:39.

by asking her why the UK should agree to any figure for a financial

:27:40.:27:42.

settlement before the start of discussions about the future

:27:43.:27:45.

You know very well we are not talking about figures yet.

:27:46.:27:53.

All we are talking and all we need to progress and to have

:27:54.:27:57.

agreement on is the methodology of calculating the bill.

:27:58.:28:02.

Here we see that the position of the UK is practically just stuck,

:28:03.:28:07.

there's no progress, there is a completely different

:28:08.:28:12.

diverging view on the approach to the financial bill

:28:13.:28:17.

There is no agreement on the legal basis.

:28:18.:28:26.

This is something which, of course, the EU side cannot accept,

:28:27.:28:28.

that's why, unless we are also seeing a more constructive approach

:28:29.:28:33.

on the UK side, we can make progress on this.

:28:34.:28:36.

We are not talking yet about figures, we are just talking

:28:37.:28:42.

about the legally binding commitments.

:28:43.:28:44.

There is a dispute about whether they are legally

:28:45.:28:47.

binding but certainly, David Davis, the Brexit

:28:48.:28:49.

secretary, has said there are moral obligations.

:28:50.:28:52.

Do you think the UK should pay anything above what it's previously

:28:53.:28:58.

signed up to in the 2014-2020 multilateral financial framework?

:28:59.:29:04.

You know, it's quite actually amazing because we hear also

:29:05.:29:08.

from all those who benefit from the programmes and projects

:29:09.:29:14.

which are confined to the EU budget to which every

:29:15.:29:16.

We hear the last position of the UK that the UK should not pay

:29:17.:29:25.

a penny beyond the exit from the European Union,

:29:26.:29:31.

then you start thinking there is no understanding at all of how

:29:32.:29:33.

the European Union functions and what the budget

:29:34.:29:36.

So that is amazing for a country that's spent with us

:29:37.:29:40.

That's why we have here this disparity

:29:41.:29:48.

Negotiation of course can bring different results,

:29:49.:29:58.

but we have also made it clear from the very beginning

:29:59.:30:02.

that we need this sequencing, that there is a logic

:30:03.:30:05.

because the Article 50 says that we have to know the future

:30:06.:30:10.

aspiration of the UK to agree on the transition period.

:30:11.:30:13.

So we want to know the future position but we have to reach

:30:14.:30:17.

a certain level of advancement of the negotiations that would allow

:30:18.:30:21.

us to do that in line with the mandate we have.

:30:22.:30:28.

Do you think it helps though that when Michel Barnier...

:30:29.:30:31.

There is one more thing we need to remember.

:30:32.:30:33.

Sorry, do you think it helps when Michel Barnier uses language

:30:34.:30:36.

like, we need to teach the UK what it means to leave

:30:37.:30:40.

the single market and we need to educate the UK.

:30:41.:30:43.

Do you think that's language that helps bring two sides together?

:30:44.:30:47.

I think on both sides during the negotiations,

:30:48.:30:53.

there is this risk of the language and we probably here can find a lot

:30:54.:30:59.

of examples of the British language and etc specially of some British

:31:00.:31:05.

politicians who is, the language, using the language

:31:06.:31:07.

which is unacceptable, I think even the British reality.

:31:08.:31:09.

So sometimes we go far with our long wadge because we want to also make

:31:10.:31:13.

the other side understand and what Michel Barnier is trying

:31:14.:31:16.

to say is that the single market is, if I can use your approach,

:31:17.:31:19.

single market is single market and single market

:31:20.:31:21.

if you are a member of it, there are commitments and the single

:31:22.:31:25.

This is the most important achievement of European integration,

:31:26.:31:30.

we cannot dismantle it for the sake of those negotiations.

:31:31.:31:35.

We are all very strong when it comes to a single market.

:31:36.:31:42.

Let's have a look though at what is being put forward by the EU.

:31:43.:31:48.

There is a sense in the UK that the EU may be prepared to bear

:31:49.:31:52.

some economic pain to make a political point.

:31:53.:31:56.

The UK is Poland's second biggest export market

:31:57.:32:00.

Are you happy to risk that relationship, that

:32:01.:32:07.

economic relationship, in order to make your political

:32:08.:32:09.

You know, there are different stages and aspects of the negotiations

:32:10.:32:19.

and there's a very clear withdrawal from the European Union and then

:32:20.:32:22.

there is this single market and customs union which we hear

:32:23.:32:25.

from the British side is just really a misunderstanding of what leaving

:32:26.:32:33.

the single market or leaving the customs union means.

:32:34.:32:37.

So we all would like to have the UK within the single market

:32:38.:32:43.

and within the customs union but that, of course,

:32:44.:32:47.

what would be the difference between belonging or being a member

:32:48.:32:53.

and to benefitting from everything that the single market oftens,

:32:54.:32:56.

so we are in this process of clearly trying to understand

:32:57.:33:00.

what is the final aspiration of the Brits to stay,

:33:01.:33:04.

Will it be happy smiles all round at the end of this?

:33:05.:33:13.

You know, everything is good what ends good and I can assure

:33:14.:33:16.

you that here on the EU side and on the European Parliament side,

:33:17.:33:23.

on the Council side and Commission side, I think we are all very

:33:24.:33:26.

seriously committed to have a good deal and to have a good

:33:27.:33:29.

If there is a good end to something which is I think something

:33:30.:33:33.

that we don't see as a good solution, also for the long-term

:33:34.:33:37.

future of the UK, but it's up to the UK citizens to decide.

:33:38.:33:40.

They decided, they will have it and we'll spare no effort to make

:33:41.:33:43.

it all well organised, to ensure orderly Brexit,

:33:44.:33:47.

but we cannot do it ourselves, we need a good cooperation,

:33:48.:33:50.

taking into account the time factor with the British Government.

:33:51.:34:01.

Let's hear from Fleet Street's finest.

:34:02.:34:03.

Tom Newton Dunn from the Sun and Kate McCann from the Telegraph.

:34:04.:34:10.

Listening to some of that, would you make of it? Is a breakthrough likely

:34:11.:34:18.

between these two sides? I think over the weekend, the breakthrough

:34:19.:34:22.

with unlikely with Barnier and David Davis escalating the war of rhetoric

:34:23.:34:26.

to President at levels this morning have maybe -- to unprecedented

:34:27.:34:37.

levels. This morning, we have just had the spokesman for the Prime

:34:38.:34:42.

Minister saying that they want to intensify negotiations, David Davis

:34:43.:34:46.

wants to move from this one week a month, slightly staid and cumbersome

:34:47.:34:52.

process, to rolling week on week until they find a way through the

:34:53.:34:55.

deadlock. No one wants to leave the room until a solution is found.

:34:56.:35:00.

Lucky them! Do you think the timelines for Brexit are now

:35:01.:35:04.

interested the? Even if they do intensify the number of times they

:35:05.:35:11.

need to talk about it. Is it in jeopardy? I think most people think

:35:12.:35:18.

so, you can see the tension between Barnier and David Davis, in fact

:35:19.:35:21.

Barnier said, I am not angry now, and when I am, you will know about

:35:22.:35:29.

it. The report overnight on Politico about intensifying gauche issues,

:35:30.:35:35.

the government realise they need to step up, we are going to have

:35:36.:35:39.

position papers coming on trade and other issues this week. I think the

:35:40.:35:44.

government say they are being met with brick walls every step of the

:35:45.:35:48.

way. There were people over some are saying the position papers were

:35:49.:35:51.

there to show that something was being done in the absence of any

:35:52.:35:56.

real concrete progress. If the EU don't change their mind, or give

:35:57.:36:03.

Michel Barnier a more generous hand in the negotiations so he doesn't

:36:04.:36:06.

have too sick to this rigid sequencing, where is the

:36:07.:36:11.

breakthrough going to come? It's not just the sequencing which delays

:36:12.:36:16.

everything hugely, one week talks, three weeks and then we go back to

:36:17.:36:19.

27 different capitals and explain what they discussed, and then that

:36:20.:36:26.

is the problems with negotiating with the EU. The Greeks had it, the

:36:27.:36:31.

Japanese, Americans, you're talking to 27 different countries and it's

:36:32.:36:36.

time-consuming. I don't think we'll see any progress at all in real

:36:37.:36:40.

substance until we get to the EU Council in October, after the German

:36:41.:36:43.

elections when the 27 have a chance to get into a room for the first

:36:44.:36:47.

time and say, maybe we need to change this framework. Another

:36:48.:36:50.

breakthrough moment this morning was Nick Clegg, not known for his

:36:51.:36:54.

Euroscepticism, the arch Europhile in the country, admitting that

:36:55.:36:58.

perhaps the EU's position was a little bit rigid and it needed to be

:36:59.:37:01.

looked at. Michel Barnier being boxed in? You can see the 27 moving

:37:02.:37:05.

but not yet. Well, don't go away, Tom and Kate,

:37:06.:37:06.

because we don't just It's going to be a busy autumn term,

:37:07.:37:09.

so lets see what's in store Tomorrow, MPs return to Parliament

:37:10.:37:13.

after the summer recess, but their sitting will be

:37:14.:37:17.

short-lived as they then break again in two weeks

:37:18.:37:19.

for the Party Conference Season. Labour will meet in Brighton

:37:20.:37:21.

from 24th September, where they are expected to debate

:37:22.:37:23.

the so-called McDonnell amendment, to lower the number of MP

:37:24.:37:26.

nominations a candidate would need Next up the Conservatives

:37:27.:37:29.

meet in Manchester, where Theresa May reportedly plans

:37:30.:37:34.

to apologise to the party faithful In amongst that, German

:37:35.:37:38.

voters will decide whether Chancellor Angela Merkel

:37:39.:37:44.

will remain in post when they go to the polls on 24th September,

:37:45.:37:47.

a result that could impact the direction of Theresa May's

:37:48.:37:50.

Brexit negotiations. And November will see our

:37:51.:37:55.

Chancellor, Philip Hammond, give his second Budget for the year

:37:56.:37:58.

as he switches the timings Let's look ahead to the conferences.

:37:59.:38:11.

How would you assess Jeremy Corbyn's position going into that conference?

:38:12.:38:14.

I think he's in quite a good position. I think there is this

:38:15.:38:18.

McDonnell a moment discussion which has had this been taken out of the

:38:19.:38:23.

tail of it, there is no talk about replacing him, no talk about a

:38:24.:38:26.

successor, no talk about rebellion. I think what Labour has to be

:38:27.:38:33.

careful on in this comfort is Brexit, their single market position

:38:34.:38:37.

is all over the place, they have a number of MPs who have strong views

:38:38.:38:42.

about the single market, you have seen Tom Watson saying one thing and

:38:43.:38:45.

Keir Starmer saying something else, they need to get this together. When

:38:46.:38:49.

you bring these people together to talk about Brexit in one place, it's

:38:50.:38:53.

only going to generate more headlines about labour being split

:38:54.:38:57.

and not having a inherent argument. Anybody who had Barry Gardner this

:38:58.:39:00.

morning try to make the odd given that the public knew what they voted

:39:01.:39:08.

for, he knows that impossible to argue. The leadership is not being

:39:09.:39:13.

to be an issue. What about Theresa May, is her position strengthened

:39:14.:39:18.

after the summer? She survived. Until last week I think it was, she

:39:19.:39:24.

didn't good job bedding in and getting a good news grid and -- she

:39:25.:39:29.

did a decent job bedding in, and she showed a bit of humility and showed

:39:30.:39:33.

she had learned and she would change her star and governing. Then she

:39:34.:39:37.

went to Japan and effectively said, I want another decade in number ten.

:39:38.:39:41.

We were pretty surprised, those on the trip couldn't believe she meant

:39:42.:39:50.

to say it. I think she actually misspoke. It has revealed the

:39:51.:39:54.

fragility she still has with the respect of Tory MPs, they are

:39:55.:39:59.

prepared to forgive have that quickly. I think she had taken a

:40:00.:40:03.

couple of steps back with this unfortunate phraseology last week.

:40:04.:40:07.

Although some would say, what else would she say which was asked, will

:40:08.:40:12.

you go on and on? Because of the problems that previous prime

:40:13.:40:14.

ministers have had when they have named a departure date. What she

:40:15.:40:18.

could have done is made a token gesture, I think she went a little

:40:19.:40:21.

bit too far, she didn't mean to say, I will fight the next election, she

:40:22.:40:25.

probably meant to say, I am not a quitter and I will not give up but

:40:26.:40:29.

he didn't and that led to questions about leading us into another

:40:30.:40:34.

election. That is not where she meant the discussion to go. It's

:40:35.:40:36.

talk about the economy briefly, could that be the fly in the team

:40:37.:40:41.

and for government? If wages do not keep pace with prices, the value of

:40:42.:40:45.

the pound has fallen, growth is slower than had been thought, how

:40:46.:40:49.

big an issue is that going to be as an issue for conferences? A huge

:40:50.:40:55.

issue going forward over the next year or two years. It won't come to

:40:56.:41:00.

fruition quite yet, there is reporting in some newspapers this

:41:01.:41:03.

morning that he's going to lift the public sector pay cap which would be

:41:04.:41:10.

a very big deal indeed. -- that she is going to lift the pay cap. So the

:41:11.:41:18.

pay freeze will go, it will cost ?4 billion yesterday Chancellor will

:41:19.:41:21.

have to pay for that in the Budget but those are ways of showing that

:41:22.:41:25.

she feels the pain of austerity and to keep people ticking over and

:41:26.:41:28.

content with her government while the economy and growth begins to

:41:29.:41:34.

lesson. Taking that on board, if that is the case, lifting the public

:41:35.:41:39.

sector pay cap, what will that do to austerity and Philip Hammond when he

:41:40.:41:43.

goes forth with his next budget? It's difficult to know because there

:41:44.:41:46.

have already been reports that Philip Hammond and Theresa May and

:41:47.:41:49.

others in the government, and particularly the Cabinet, have not

:41:50.:41:53.

agreed on how far austerity should continue. I think Tom is right, the

:41:54.:41:57.

budget later this year will be an opportunity and the Prime Minister

:41:58.:42:00.

will want to use it to show that she understands that people are

:42:01.:42:04.

struggling in the country, so we will likely see things like housing

:42:05.:42:08.

policy change or something on stamp duty. These are areas where they are

:42:09.:42:12.

popular with the country you have to balance them with how they're going

:42:13.:42:15.

to be paid for and we are yet to see an answer for that question. Thank

:42:16.:42:17.

you very much for marking our cards. Now, here's a question

:42:18.:42:20.

for you to ponder on the 6:15 Are peak rail fares

:42:21.:42:22.

simply too cheap? Here's the Independent's Travel

:42:23.:42:25.

Editor, Simon Calder, on why he thinks some rail fares

:42:26.:42:29.

should rise above and beyond Waterloo Station, Europe's

:42:30.:42:32.

biggest transport terminal. It's an essential part

:42:33.:42:52.

of the nation's infrastructure. But a lot of the commuters I talked

:42:53.:42:55.

to here are deeply upset So how can we make rail

:42:56.:42:58.

passengers happier? I say it's time to

:42:59.:43:04.

put up train fares! In there, they've extended

:43:05.:43:15.

the platforms to take longer trains. And increasing capacity should ease

:43:16.:43:19.

overcrowding for a while at least. The reason trains are too crowded

:43:20.:43:24.

is because fares are too low. So we need to increase the cost

:43:25.:43:31.

of season tickets to the most popular trains while at the same

:43:32.:43:35.

time cutting prices to tempt travellers

:43:36.:43:37.

onto less popular services. Each year, the Department

:43:38.:43:42.

for Transport prescribes what train operators can charge for about half

:43:43.:43:45.

the tickets they sell. The government has the tricky task

:43:46.:43:47.

of balancing the interests of people who pay for the railways,

:43:48.:43:53.

most of whom are not regular train users,

:43:54.:43:56.

with the long-suffering passengers. The solution is to allow

:43:57.:44:01.

market forces to prevail. If I insist on arriving

:44:02.:44:04.

at a Central London terminus between eight and nine

:44:05.:44:07.

in the morning, for example, I should have to pay

:44:08.:44:10.

for a premium season ticket, while those who are more

:44:11.:44:13.

flexible get a better deal. This government, like its

:44:14.:44:17.

predecessors, regards that idea Make do and mend remains

:44:18.:44:20.

the order of the day. But the common complaint that fares

:44:21.:44:26.

are too high and trains are too If commuters really were paying

:44:27.:44:31.

too much, there'd be Getting up early for

:44:32.:44:36.

a cheaper train might be Yet, by hiking up prices at peak

:44:37.:44:43.

times for trains, everyone would For politicians as well

:44:44.:44:49.

as rail passengers, Simon Calder joins us now from our

:44:50.:45:12.

Salford studio. You may not win the popularity prize for this soap box

:45:13.:45:16.

but passenger who is already will no doubt pay thousands for peak travel

:45:17.:45:19.

tickets will be aghast at your suggestion. How could they afford

:45:20.:45:22.

further increases? Some of them will be able to. If you

:45:23.:45:26.

can't, you are going to have to accept that you are going to be

:45:27.:45:30.

arriving, for example, in Central London or in Manchester or Leeds or

:45:31.:45:35.

Glasgow, maybe uncomfortably early, maybe at 7. 45, rather than 8. 45.

:45:36.:45:42.

But, unfortunately, since we in this country have decided we don't really

:45:43.:45:47.

like the idea of extending what the marvellous Victorians did for us in

:45:48.:45:51.

terms of the railways, it's a very good way to manage capacity. It's

:45:52.:45:56.

much better than saying OK everybody buy season tickets at very good

:45:57.:46:01.

subsidised prices, off you all go and you can all stand up all the way

:46:02.:46:07.

from Guildford to London which is not pleasant for everybody. I don't

:46:08.:46:12.

feel people necessarily think they've got a bargain when buying

:46:13.:46:19.

the season tickets. If you look at comparisons in other countries, it

:46:20.:46:22.

may be the case, I don't know. People are forced to arrive at work,

:46:23.:46:25.

school or whatever it is at the time that is given to them? Well, maybe

:46:26.:46:31.

we need to talk more deeply about having some more flexibility built

:46:32.:46:34.

into businesses which would tolerate that. But people are also making a

:46:35.:46:40.

lifestyle choice to live in leafy Essex or Surrey or wherever and

:46:41.:46:44.

commute in from there. They could live in the outer suburbs of London,

:46:45.:46:48.

they could probably still afford somewhere, they wouldn't have such

:46:49.:46:50.

nice a lifestyle so they're making choices. It comes back to the fact

:46:51.:46:56.

that many people don't travel regularly by train and they're

:46:57.:47:00.

subsidising those of us lucky enough to travel frequently by train.

:47:01.:47:05.

Angela Eagle, are you convinced? Not at all. There's ban 32% increase in

:47:06.:47:11.

regulated fares since 2010 that people pay. There's been a ?3.5

:47:12.:47:19.

billion profit that the train operators have made and I just think

:47:20.:47:23.

that we need to get to a situation where we don't from this privatised

:47:24.:47:28.

rail system which has worked out a system of milking commuters for the

:47:29.:47:33.

maximum profit. What we need to do is have something that's actually

:47:34.:47:36.

properly coordinated by the Government so that we have a fairer

:47:37.:47:40.

way of doing things. I have to say, he's talked about trains and that's

:47:41.:47:45.

fair enough, but actually, most people require buses to get to and

:47:46.:47:48.

from work and we ought to think about that. It's far more people

:47:49.:47:56.

using the bus services which again, a deregulated thing outside of

:47:57.:47:59.

London. Let's stick to the trains. Prices have gone up and are still

:48:00.:48:04.

going up. Really, can you expect people to bear higher fares when

:48:05.:48:07.

quite often the service is not up to scratch? Well, I think that is a

:48:08.:48:13.

problem that's bedevilled serial governments. That may be so, but...

:48:14.:48:20.

I think Simon's idea's got the huge defect that most employers expect

:48:21.:48:23.

their employees to get into work at a particular time because that's the

:48:24.:48:27.

way that their particular sector of the economy works. But would people

:48:28.:48:31.

be prepared to pay more at peak times if the trains were punctual,

:48:32.:48:36.

if you had a seat on almost every journey you went into work for.

:48:37.:48:40.

Would that be worth pay ago premium for at peak times then it could be

:48:41.:48:44.

cheaper at other times? I think actual think prices are pretty high

:48:45.:48:47.

as they are and the railway operating companies have got a

:48:48.:48:50.

responsibility to bear. This is something that the Government is

:48:51.:48:54.

aderision. Are you going to get anywhere with this Simon listening

:48:55.:48:59.

to our guests? Sorry to quote not a very popular person, Jean-Claude

:49:00.:49:02.

Juncker, politicians know what to do, they just don't know how to get

:49:03.:49:06.

elected afterwards and honestly, you have to accept that there is a

:49:07.:49:11.

capacity squeeze going into London that price is going to be a pretty

:49:12.:49:16.

good way of regulating it, so yes, let's have a debate about

:49:17.:49:20.

renalisation, swreked had one any time between 1997 and 2010 Angela

:49:21.:49:24.

Eagle when Labour was in power but you didn't. That's a debate worth

:49:25.:49:27.

having, the basic problem is too many of us want to go to our big

:49:28.:49:32.

cities in the rush hour at peak time. It's a zero sum game. Give

:49:33.:49:41.

some people more expensive fare bus use that to let people effectively

:49:42.:49:47.

sit around at London Victoria or wherever having a coffee while

:49:48.:49:52.

waiting for the train and having got up early to get there earlier too.

:49:53.:49:55.

Now, hands up who follows the President of the

:49:56.:49:57.

Well, if you do, you'll know he's had a busy summer,

:49:58.:50:01.

Just as well he doesn't believe in vacations.

:50:02.:50:05.

Very disappointed with the Attorney General

:50:06.:50:22.

The President certainly felt that Anthony's comments

:50:23.:50:32.

were inappropriate for a person in that position.

:50:33.:50:35.

I want to congratulate you on having done a fantastic job, General,

:50:36.:50:40.

and we look forward to, if it's possible, an even better

:50:41.:50:42.

Trump's promise to repeal and replace Obamacare crashed

:50:43.:50:49.

and burned on the floor of the Senate.

:50:50.:50:52.

Have you seen any Russians in West Virginia or Ohio or Pennsylvania?

:50:53.:50:59.

Hate has come to the streets of this southern American city.

:51:00.:51:12.

This egregious display of hatred, bigotry and

:51:13.:51:17.

The President's everyone is to blame response,

:51:18.:51:25.

and silence until now, met a firestorm of criticism.

:51:26.:51:27.

Racism is evil, and those who cause violence in its name

:51:28.:51:31.

Including the KKK, neo-Nazis, and white supremacists.

:51:32.:51:45.

It's epic what happened, but you know what, it

:51:46.:51:47.

happened in Texas and Texas can handle anything.

:51:48.:51:51.

I'm joined now by Kate Andrews from the Institute of Economic Affairs

:51:52.:52:01.

and by Molly Kiniry who works at the Legatum Institute.

:52:02.:52:06.

She's also a spokesperson for Republicans Overseas.

:52:07.:52:16.

Kate, how would you sum up his summer? Hectic. Some of his

:52:17.:52:24.

responses have been erratic, out of his control and he ticked all the

:52:25.:52:28.

right boxes doing what he was supposed to do. Other controversies

:52:29.:52:35.

of his making when he went off script to respond to

:52:36.:52:36.

Charlottesville, mentioning at that point that there was violence on

:52:37.:52:39.

both sides which was shocking and inappropriate. So some of it has

:52:40.:52:44.

been his own making. He's been busy firing people. We have all known him

:52:45.:52:49.

to do so since his days of the Apprentice. At quite a pace in the

:52:50.:52:56.

recent months. What was the low point? Charlottesville. That did not

:52:57.:53:03.

enhance America's image abroad, how Americans are viewed abroad or how

:53:04.:53:06.

the Republican Party is viewed as a whole. Obviously, these are views

:53:07.:53:10.

which we all whole heart think condemn. White nationalism is not a

:53:11.:53:15.

mainstream view in the American body of politics. These were a few

:53:16.:53:19.

hundred disaffected young men mostly. But wasn't he reliant for

:53:20.:53:26.

his win as President? I think that Donald Trump perceives that. My

:53:27.:53:30.

analysis would be different. I don't think this is a sufficiently large

:53:31.:53:32.

portion of the election rat that it swung the tide for him. He's had to

:53:33.:53:37.

do with some turbulent personnel changes. They happened so quickly, I

:53:38.:53:44.

couldn't keep up with them. He made some bad choices didn't he for Team

:53:45.:53:48.

Trump? He did. The a problem with Charlottesville is that one of his

:53:49.:53:55.

main chiefs of staff, he was familiar and sympathetic to the

:53:56.:53:59.

white nationalists. We saw him leave immediately after Charlottesville

:54:00.:54:02.

and that was the right choice. We have had a large turnover in the

:54:03.:54:08.

communications department. I think his best pick so far has been

:54:09.:54:14.

General John Kelly. You do? Yes. He seems to be doing what he can to

:54:15.:54:19.

whip the President into shape. There have been fewer PR disasters since

:54:20.:54:23.

he's been brought on board. Certainly conditioned handle all of

:54:24.:54:26.

them but he's been a good choice. Before I ask my guests about their

:54:27.:54:31.

views overseas. Are Republicans worried that poor support is

:54:32.:54:35.

slipping away now? No. The poll numbers haven't been indicating that

:54:36.:54:40.

at all. President Trump seems to have a floor of 35-40% of people who

:54:41.:54:44.

simply aren't going anywhere, at least for the time being. Right.

:54:45.:54:48.

Isn't that the point - whatever happens and whatever he says and

:54:49.:54:53.

does, his core support is still pretty rock solid, Angela? That

:54:54.:54:56.

seems to be the case in American terms. I don't think he's doing a

:54:57.:55:00.

lot more the image of America abroad and, I have to say, waking up and

:55:01.:55:04.

finding out what is going on in North Korea and looking at the very

:55:05.:55:09.

mixed messages that the President has actually sent to Kim Jong Un in

:55:10.:55:15.

an escalating, very worrying situation, it doesn't make me sleep

:55:16.:55:19.

any easier at night. How worried are you about that? I would agree

:55:20.:55:23.

entirely with Angela. We are at the most crucial moment so far of the

:55:24.:55:26.

Trump presidency and I think what's happening in North Korea is a real

:55:27.:55:30.

test for him. At the moment, I have to say, what he's doing doesn't

:55:31.:55:34.

appear to be that coherent and I think that the world is waiting for

:55:35.:55:38.

a lead from America. How worried are Americans? How worried are you, are

:55:39.:55:43.

we on the brink of some sort of Amageddon? I don't think we are and

:55:44.:55:47.

that is why I am concerned that Trump is now setting his own version

:55:48.:55:51.

of a red line. Remember Obama's red line in Syria and when Assad used

:55:52.:55:55.

the chemical weapons, he didn't fulfil his word and his own red

:55:56.:55:58.

line. I think Trump's really at danger of doing that. He's

:55:59.:56:02.

threatening cutting off trade with China and threatening he's going to

:56:03.:56:06.

bring down fire in North Korea. I don't think we are going to have a

:56:07.:56:10.

nuclear war with Korea, but if we don't, he's set his own red line.

:56:11.:56:14.

That's the problem. He's said it will be met with fire and fury and

:56:15.:56:19.

he's set the red line. Yet what are the military options? They are

:56:20.:56:24.

frankly somewhat limited as Steve Bannon said in his last interview

:56:25.:56:30.

before he left the White House. They've not seen any math which

:56:31.:56:38.

doesn't show several million people in Seoul dying if that were to

:56:39.:56:42.

happen. Setting a red line is a new step but it's not like any of the

:56:43.:56:46.

previous steps have worked. North Korea's development of these weapons

:56:47.:56:51.

has been going on at exponential haste for the last few years so a

:56:52.:56:56.

new strategy is needed. Right. But beyond diplomacy which obviously has

:56:57.:56:59.

been tested and sanctioned, what else is there? Well, Donald Trump

:57:00.:57:05.

has suggested cutting off economic activity Which would harm China? Yes

:57:06.:57:09.

but also countries like Germany and Russia. And also the US. Yes, it

:57:10.:57:16.

would. If we two back then to what Republicans are thinking, oaf the

:57:17.:57:19.

summer Carl Bernstein, the Watergate journalist said there was now worry

:57:20.:57:24.

and concern at high levels in the Republican Party about whether

:57:25.:57:26.

Donald Trump is really fit to continue as President. Is that

:57:27.:57:32.

actually got -- has that actually got traction? I think that's

:57:33.:57:36.

tremendously unhelpful rhetoric. He was elected, not by majority, but

:57:37.:57:39.

through the system that we have which is the electoral college. He

:57:40.:57:43.

was elected democratically. I think we all have to hope that Mr Trump

:57:44.:57:47.

grows into the role and does well as President Obama said in his note

:57:48.:57:50.

which he left for Mr Trump on his first day in office, that we have to

:57:51.:57:54.

hope he does well because how the President does is a good indication

:57:55.:57:59.

of how the country is doing. What did you think about that when you

:58:00.:58:03.

saw the Dwight about Republicans beginning to think this is enough? I

:58:04.:58:07.

think the Republicans have always thought Donald Trump would be

:58:08.:58:10.

enough. They never wanted him to be the nominee but because so many

:58:11.:58:16.

refused to drop out of the race he ended up being that and we picked up

:58:17.:58:22.

the pieces. Now just time for the answer of the quiz:

:58:23.:58:30.

What is the correct answer? Soft and cuddly. Charming. Yes, yes it was.

:58:31.:58:42.

Let's have a look. A charming person. We won't find out what you

:58:43.:58:47.

really think of him. Thank you to all of my guests and particularly to

:58:48.:58:52.

my guests of the day. The BBC News is starting at 1 on BBC One. See you

:58:53.:58:54.

tomorrow. Bye. Owen Quine - he's a very famous

:58:55.:59:00.

and good novelist. He's gone off before,

:59:01.:59:02.

only this time it's been ten days. I'm an investigator.

:59:03.:59:06.

His wife's very worried for him. Owen has written a very thinly

:59:07.:59:09.

disguised slandering

:59:10.:59:13.

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