Browse content similar to 24/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
Theresa May tells MPs she won't agree a Brexit | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
transitional deal until a future trade deal is agreed first. | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
So, are we edging closer to no deal and what does | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
A Labour MP who ousted former Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
in Sheffield Hallam is accused of sexist and homophobic | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
He's apologised and says he's a reformed man. | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
But, has he really changed his views? | :01:03. | :01:08. | |
President Donald Trump has called it one of "the worst deals in history". | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
But yesterday foreign Secretary Boris Johnson urged | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
Western nations to keep committed to the Iran nuclear deal. | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
With US support going cold, is it time to ditch the deal? | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
Then there's a new parliamentary grouping just for you. | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
Young Tories in the House of Commons are clubbing together | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
All that in the next hour and with us for the whole | :01:32. | :01:45. | |
of the programme today is writer and commentator Melanie Phillips. | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
First, a report out today says an estimated 850 men, | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
women and children left Britain for Syria and Iraq and around half | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
The report by the New York think tank, the Soufan Centre, | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
says so-called "returnees" may be particularly vulnerable | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
Melanie, what would you suggest? I am very surprised that this country | :02:10. | :02:25. | |
is allowing them back at all. I think once they are back it is very | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
difficult to deal with them. We know the security services are grossly | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
overstretched already, we know it cannot monitor adequately all the | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
known terrorist sympathisers in the country, and yet we have people | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
going to fight in Syria who must be presumed to be a danger to the | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
country and consequently this seems to me beyond perverse that we allow | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
them back in the first place. You seemed to be a danger to this | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
country and that means we do not know. You concede that, so how can | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
we stop British citizens coming back to their country of origin if they | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
claim that they went out to Iraq and Syria on humanitarian grounds or | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
because they thought they could help? If they do claim that, that | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
should be taken seriously and we should look very carefully at their | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
circumstances. Although you said you would not like them to come back in | :03:21. | :03:26. | |
the first place? I think the figures that we now have combat suggest we | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
are not simply allowing that people who are saying they are there for | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
humanitarian purposes and mean it. We are allowing them back on the | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
basis we presume it is OK and consequently I think there are | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
presumably very few people going there for humanitarian purposes. I | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
would guess a large proportion of those people will fight for one | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
group or another and it makes them a risk to the country. But as you say, | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
some of those people who went out to Iraq and Syria say they were | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
fighting against IS for one of the other groups. Again we do not know. | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
There are international laws that do protect people in the field of | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
combat and when they come back and they should have a trial. If there | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
is enough evidence, they should be prosecuted. Is that not the way | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
forward? You cannot get evidence for a criminal trial if it is not a | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
theatre of war. If it is a theatre of war, you cannot easily get that | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
evidence. The people who go to fight are either fighting for Isis or | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
against Isis. If they are fighting against Isis, they are fighting in | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
groups that I still nevertheless a danger to this country. The | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
presumption must be a majority are a danger to this country. You would | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
like them to be monitored or stopped coming back here, in other words | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
having their passports taken? Yes, once they go, that is it. The | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
Foreign Office Minister said on Sunday that the only way of dealing | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
with them would be in almost every case to kill them, sorry the | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
international development minister, do you agree? He was talking about | :05:10. | :05:15. | |
those fighting with Isis. Do you agree with him? He clarified it by | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
saying they were out in the field, do you agree? How did he clarify | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
that? He said there are rules about enemy, tense. Yes, it is a bit of a | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
stretch to say anyone who is there must be killed. But I think what he | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
was probably trying to say, and I have not seen his clarification, and | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
this is my interpretation, but I would guess anyone who goes to fight | :05:42. | :05:48. | |
with Isis will be treated with as an enemy, tense and will be treated as | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
somebody fighting in a theatre of war, rather than someone who will be | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
arrested nicely and brought back to trial. In other words they will be | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
killed. His clarification was that anybody who is an enemy, ten will be | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
treated in accordance with the rules of war. Absolutely, and they are | :06:05. | :06:10. | |
incorporated into the rules of international war and they are the | :06:11. | :06:14. | |
rules of war and not the rules of peace and they go to fight in a | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
theatre of war and they stand the risk of being killed. | :06:18. | :06:19. | |
The question for today is, which of these pictures | :06:20. | :06:25. | |
Take a look at these pictures. Jeremy Corbyn features. At the end | :06:26. | :06:35. | |
of the show Melanie will give us the correct answer. | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Yesterday Theresa May updated MPs on Brexit | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
She said there will be no "implementation period" | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
unless the UK settles its "future partnership" first. | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
So, what does that mean for businesses preparing for Brexit? | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
And do the Prime Minister's comments suggest the UK is edging | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
Meanwhile the president of the European Council, Donald Tusk, has | :06:57. | :07:08. | |
been speaking in Strasbourg this morning. He said the remaining EU | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
countries will be defeated in the Brexit talks unless they continue to | :07:13. | :07:13. | |
Brexit talks unless they continue to show unity. | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
Ahead of us is still the toughest stress test. | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
If we fail it, negotiations will end in our defeat. | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
We must keep our unity regardless of the direction of the talks. | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
The EU will be able to rise to every scenario, as long | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
It is in fact up to London how this ends. | :07:31. | :07:37. | |
With a good deal, no deal, no Brexit. | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
But, in each of the scenarios, we will protect our common interest | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
Well Theresa May has been having her own de-brief | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
Yesterday in the House of commons she was asked about a potential | :07:56. | :08:08. | |
implementation period by the former Conservative leader Iain Duncan | :08:09. | :08:08. | |
Smith. May I say to my right honourable | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
friend that she may wish to answer some of those uncertainties | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
by reminding them that she cannot have an agreement | :08:15. | :08:15. | |
on an implementation period until you have something | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
to implement first and foremost. Secondly, could she explain | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
that during the course of her discussions, the private ones | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
she had, the ones that the acting president of the European union | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
Martin Selmayr hasn't actually put into the papers, but the private | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
discussions, could she just say whether she reminded her colleagues | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
in the European Union that to reach a proper free trade arrangement, | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
they will need to have concluded those discussions before | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
the summer of next year, otherwise it will be difficult | :08:45. | :08:47. | |
to get those through in time both Did she get an answer, therefore, | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
about when they might like to start? Well, can I say, I thank my right | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
noble friend because he's absolutely right, as we have said on a number | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
of occasions, the point of the implementation period | :09:03. | :09:05. | |
is to put in place the practical changes necessary to move | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
to future partnership and, in order to have that, | :09:09. | :09:10. | |
you need to know where that future He asks about, I have, obviously, | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
in my discussions with other leaders raised the issue of the timetable | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
that we have, of course, the ultimate timetable that was set | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
by the Lisbon Treaty and my right honourable friend talks | :09:23. | :09:25. | |
about knowing the details Of course, Michel Barnier himself | :09:26. | :09:29. | |
has suggested October 2018 might be the point by which it | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
would be necessary to know that but my right honourable friend | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
is absolutely right that, of course, there will need to be a period | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
of time for ratification Theresa May in the Commons | :09:41. | :09:53. | |
yesterday. I am joined by Chris Leslie for Labour and Nadhim Zahawi | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
for the Conservatives. The Prime Minister has got a point. What is | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
the point of having an implementation period if there is | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
nothing to implement? I think the Florence speech, now well-known, set | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
out that the Prime Minister was making the notion of a transition. | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
Lots of businesses and the financial services have been saying unless we | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
get a sense in January or February that we have some certainty, there | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
will not be a cliff edge in March 2019, then they will have no choice | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
but to start thinking about relocating to Frankfurt or Dublin or | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
elsewhere, to stay in that wider EU market. We have been getting this | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
impression, that if not this European Council, then the December | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
one smoke might emerge and we might get a sense that there is certainty | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
and a transition. It now turns out the Prime Minister is saying nothing | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
is agreed until everything is agreed. This means businesses will | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
have to wait until this time next year to know there might be some | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
sort of smooth phase will stop that is too late and it is a massive | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
disappointment, particularly for the CBI, the Federation for small | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
businesses, the British Chambers of commerce, they were all writing to | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
the Prime Minister and saying we have got to know that this | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
transition is certain. Are you massively disappointed by what the | :11:23. | :11:25. | |
Prime Minister said, or do you welcome the fact the UK could be | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
moving closer to no deal? I am not disappointed. Chris and some of his | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
colleagues wanted to stay in the EU and ignore the results of the | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
referendum. Other colleagues want some fudge. I think the Prime | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
Minister is correct, to say we are entering these negotiations with | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
lots of goodwill and we have got lots of position papers and we are | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
making progress on things like EU citizens living in the UK and | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
British citizens living in Europe, loss progress on Northern Ireland, | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
lots of progress on the money, which is important to countries that | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
contributes so much. What is the evidence of making so much progress | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
on the money? You have to listen to the EU and Donald Tusk said so. Once | :12:10. | :12:20. | |
we can go through line by line and scrutinise the money, the money is | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
the easiest to solve for us. Would you be prepared to see more money | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
put on the table at this stage to move ahead? At the right time when | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
we go through it line by line. I think the easiest thing to solve is | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
the money. You cannot for example have a settlement for Ireland and | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
Northern Ireland without having a trade agreement in place. Once you | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
have that then you can talk about the implementation period. You | :12:48. | :12:49. | |
cannot implement something that does not exist. There is a very strong | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
intellectual anchor to the Prime Minister's position. Labour are in | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
denial. Some of them want to say they are in favour... This is way | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
past the point of party politics. Listen... Is this about keeping this | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
country in the single market and in a customs union with the EU in | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
perpetuity. You have called for a condition deal of around two years | :13:17. | :13:21. | |
to be written onto the face of the EU withdrawal bill. You are | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
committed to us staying in the EU for a further two years in effect. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
Why should people believe that you do not want that to carry on? I am | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
clear, I personally think leaving the European Union and the single | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
market and the customs union is damaging for our economy. But we are | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
in the business of growing up out of our party political tramlines and | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
trying to find some consensus in Parliament that can protect these | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
core elements. If that means I have to compromise and say we will have a | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
transitional period, I will vote for that. There is a majority in the | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
House of commons that recognises the alarm bells that are ringing for the | :14:03. | :14:07. | |
business community and we have to achieve this. If we stick in our | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
party political tramlines, this thing will be a total disaster. Why | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
in her Florence speech did Theresa May propose a condition of about two | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
years in order to calm business? She has changed her position. She has | :14:23. | :14:28. | |
not. She has. She is still working for a good deal, but we are talking | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
in the hypothetical that there is no deal. Do you think there is time for | :14:33. | :14:39. | |
a trade deal by autumn next year? Yes, I will. Michel Barnier does not | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
agree. We have been in the EU for decades and we already trade very | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
freely with the EU and as long as we agree on money, Northern Ireland, | :14:51. | :14:54. | |
British citizens, EU citizens, we could have a trade deal reasonably | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
quickly. I came out of the world of business, Chris talks about it, you | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
do not go into a negotiation saying I will take any deal. They will walk | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
all over you. Everybody understands this is a negotiation and you have | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
to get the best deal, but the business community are worried about | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
that cliff edge in March 2000 and 19. You do not get around that by | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
rolling over. The Florence speech gave the impression to the banks and | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
businesses that have been talking to me and you that they were going to | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
have some certainty, that there would be a smooth arrangement. | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
Whatever the final settlement is going to be. Now we get the | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
impression they will not get that until the 11th hour and that is a | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
real danger to our economy. We should rise out of the tramlines | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
that we have got and start to work together. | :15:48. | :15:53. | |
That's a misrepresentation of the position. We are negotiating in good | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
faith and we will get a good deal but we have to plan for no deal | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
because if you can't walk away from a deal, you will be walked all over. | :16:05. | :16:11. | |
If there isn't a trade deal and actually Michel Barnier, the unit | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
goes to, who has had that he thinks it will take three years, wouldn't | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
be completed until December 2020, you enter a transitional phase of | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
two years, what leverage what the UK have to get any sort of deal? I | :16:27. | :16:33. | |
don't think it should be about the alpha leverage question. We have a | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
relationship that we want to continue, need to continue, they | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
need to continue with ours as well and we should be looking at this as | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
grown-ups are thinking about mutual interests rather than posturing and | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
flag-waving. In the way that the dinner conversation was leaked | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
describing the Prime Minister begging for help? Jean-Claude | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
Juncker has denied that was him. If we approach this as children rather | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
than as adults, if we approach this in a way that rips up the benefits | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
of our single market membership, upon which so many jobs are | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
dependent, we are going to be falling into a recessionary | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
situation all because of a politicking in this way. The divorce | :17:18. | :17:25. | |
Bill hasn't been settled yet. We've heard there has been progress on the | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
money, on the rights of citizens, how likely do you think a trade deal | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
is going to happen before March 2019? Very likely for this reason | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
because it is absolutely not in the interests of the EU not to have it. | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
We can walk away. I don't think that no deal is the disaster that is | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
being painted. WTO rules, may have some disadvantages but may have many | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
advantages. Worst case scenario, WTO rules. Worst case scenario for the | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
EU is a whopping great hole in their finances of 50 billion euros | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
upwards. They cannot survive that. It is absolutely in their interests | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
to do a deal. It may be at the last minute. I don't know. I'm pretty | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
sure it can be done quite quickly. Britain has the cards in its hand. | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
Chris Leslie says it shouldn't be about leverage which he seems to | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
think is some kind of macho posturing. Negotiating is all about | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
leverage. The first rule of a negotiator is that you say what you | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
want and if you don't give it to me, I'm out of here. There are certain | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
people who can afford to walk away whose lives won't be affected by the | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
catastrophe of ripping up trade alliances. Why is it a catastrophe | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
to negotiate our own alliances. Practically speaking, if you are a | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
service industry, in manufacturing, if you end up with tariffs, ten, 20, | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
30% on those products, it isn't going to be the management of those | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
firms that lose out, all though they will do, it will be the working | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
people of this country. So you will except any deal that the EU puts | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
forward to is in order to ensure that trade relationship? I | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
personally think that no deal is about the worst situation that you | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
can possibly get. We have to find a way of salvaging the relationships | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
we have got. The Clinton, pull up the drawbridge scenario is a | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
complete disaster. How much money should the UK be spending now to | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
prepare for no deal? First of all, we're not going for no deal, we are | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
going for a good deal but it is an option. We look specifically at the | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
Foreign Affairs Committee at what would happen if there is a no deal. | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
Yes, it will be very difficult for the UK economy but it will be | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
equally difficult for the European economy and the reason why is we | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
inject ?70 billion per year in the month. We buy a lot. We import a lot | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
from Europe. They do not want to lose that. How much should the UK | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
Government spend on preparing for no deal? This is the point, I think | :20:11. | :20:19. | |
Chris is defeatist on this. Age -- 82% of our economy is financial. We | :20:20. | :20:28. | |
have leverage when it comes to infrastructure, building 300,000 | :20:29. | :20:38. | |
homes,... How much money should be be putting behind it? We can do a | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
lot of that and make sure our economy is really vibrant. This is | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
blind face. Just try our best. Look at the data. Look at what the | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
business organisations are saying. I am from the business world. Not any | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
more. Is the government spending enough on no deal? Philip Hammond is | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
doing the right thing to make sure our economy is insulated in the | :21:06. | :21:13. | |
scenario of no deal. But we have enough leverage. They do not want is | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
to walk away with no deal. That is my view. | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
Now, last night the Labour MP, Jared O'Mara quit the parliamentary | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
Women and Equalities Committee after a series of offensive comments | :21:23. | :21:31. | |
he made a decade ago came to light and were published | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
Jared O'Mara, who ousted the former deputy prime minister Nick Clegg | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
from his Sheffield Hallam seat in June said, "I am deeply ashamed | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
The Conservative MP Sarah Wollaston tweeted, "Hard to see how anyone | :21:43. | :21:49. | |
with his views was selected and retains the Labour whip. | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
Sheffield Hallam deserves a by-election." | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
But last night after Jared O'Mara addressed | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
the Parliamentary Labour Party and apologised for his comments, | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
his fellow Labour MP Wes Streeting said, "The battle for equality | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
is increasingly a battle for hearts and minds and that must surely mean | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
that people are allowed to change their views | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
I hope I don't end up eating my words and that Jared | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
demonstrates his commitment to equality through his | :22:20. | :22:20. | |
We have spoken to one of Jared O'Mara's constituents who met in in | :22:21. | :22:34. | |
March this year just a few months before he was elected. Sophie Evans | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
who worked in a bar in the city said he used abusive and sexist language | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
towards her and a friend. I axed her if she were surprised by the latest | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
revelations. This interview contained potentially offensive | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
language. I wasn't surprised he said it. It came as no shock to me that | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
he would say things like that at all. Why do you say that? How do you | :22:58. | :23:08. | |
know him? Why do you say that? I met him on a dating app. It didn't | :23:09. | :23:13. | |
really work out. There were no hard feelings. He was a DJ at a club in | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
Sheffield. I saw him from time to time. There was an incident in March | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
this year. He showed his true colours. What did he actually say to | :23:23. | :23:30. | |
you? Some of the things aren't broadcast the ball. There were some | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
trans-phobic slurs in there. He called me an ugly pitch. He said | :23:36. | :23:47. | |
that he was wrong to make the comments on live. He apologises for | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
is an acceptable language. He made the comments as a young man in a | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
particularly difficult period of his life, he says. Do you believe he is | :24:00. | :24:06. | |
changed? Absolutely not. Fair enough for him to have said that 15 years | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
ago but he won't even acknowledge something that happened seven months | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
ago. He never apologised to me or my friends that were involved in the | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
situation. He has called as liars in the press. He has been on radio and | :24:20. | :24:27. | |
called as liars. I just find it very hard to believe that he has changed. | :24:28. | :24:34. | |
I think he thinks we won't affect his political career. We are just | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
workers at a backstreet pub. We couldn't have any impact on him. | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
Sophie Evans. Well, we did ask Jared O'Mara | :24:41. | :24:42. | |
to come on the programme today, Labour MP Chris Leslie | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
is still with us. Do you still believe he is a | :24:46. | :24:55. | |
reformed character? It's very difficult. I don't really know him | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
very well. He was only recently elected. I haven't had any dealings | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
with him. I was at the Parliamentary Labour Party last night. He made a | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
statement to the PLP about reports that had been circulating yesterday. | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
In a general situation, I personally think we are in an Iraq now | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
particularly when women are feeling that it is difficult to come forward | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
with confidence and talk about situations, I think we have to | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
applaud people for coming forward and reporting circumstances. We've | :25:27. | :25:34. | |
just heard the report there. I think, you know, any individual has | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
to show by their behaviour that there are attitudes are not of that | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
character. It was certainly right that he left the quality select | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
committee of the House of Commons. I think he's got to answer allegations | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
as they come forward. It's difficult for me to say much more than that. | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
Is it enough to have quit the women and equality 's committee as a | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
result of comments he said he made 15 years ago and he says he isn't | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
that person when we have now heard from Sophie Evans abusive language | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
that was made to her just a few months before he was elected? If | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
allegations are made and they are proven or accent in any institution, | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
politics, broadcasting, we've seen of course recently in the film | :26:22. | :26:28. | |
industry, other in the issues. If they are proven or accepted, there | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
have to be consequences for the individual. We can't be in a | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
position where people say they can make excuses or apologise and | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
everything is glossed over. There has to be processes that are gone | :26:40. | :26:44. | |
through here. That's why I'm reluctant to intercede in this | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
particular case. It's not enough to simply make excuses and move on. | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
That is the important thing. If we do that, people will feel that they | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
can't come forward and talk about people in positions of power. We | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
have to give people confidence to make reports of these things. What | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
do you think the Labour Party should do now on the basis of that report | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
from Sophie Evans? Any allegations have to be explored and put people | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
and we have a system in the House of Commons if people within our | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
political party for out of the conduct of that which is expected, | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
then there are consequences that flow from that. Should he lose the | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
web? I'm not involved in educating on these things. There are a basket | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
of consequences that can come. If your conduct. Of the standards | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
expected. Are you shocked by the use of language? Yes. I think if these | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
allegations are true it is inconsistent to deprive him of his | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
plays on the place on the equality 's committee and let him keep the | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
labour whip. The question is are they true. Does he still think like | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
that? He says he regrets it all. People should be allowed a second | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
chance. First of all, the extremity of the language that he used and the | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
frequency with which he seems to have used it, as he admitted 15 | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
years ago, would suggest that this wasn't some aberration and I don't | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
buy this I was going through a difficult period, nobody should talk | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
to people like that about anybody. This seems to be something in his | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
personality rather than just something in his youth. With more | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
allegations coming forward, it has to be put into the mix. It doesn't | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
look very good from the point of view of him saying I'm reformed and | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
deeply regretted. Anyone can say that faced with the prospect of | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
losing the whip. People again to say anything in those circumstances. We | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
can't put too much on his apology. One has to look at everything in the | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
round. It may be that when the Labour Party does that, they cannot | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
entertain him as a Labour member of Parliament. | :29:04. | :29:05. | |
Now, the 2015 Iran nuclear deal lifted economic sanctions in return | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
for curbs to the country's controversial nuclear | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
It's aim was to stop Iran using their energy programme | :29:11. | :29:17. | |
to create a nuclear weapon and it marked the jewel | :29:18. | :29:19. | |
in the crown of Barack Obama's foreign policy agenda. | :29:20. | :29:22. | |
But, with President Trump calling it "one of the worst deals" he's ever | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
seen and promising to ditch the deal, where does this leave | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
the agreement and the UK's foreign policy relationship with Iran? | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
Let's take a look at what Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
To grasp the importance of the joint, comprehensive plan | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
of action we should remember that just before it was signed in 2015, | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
Iran had enough centrifuges and low enriched uranium to be only months | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
away from producing the essential material for at least | :29:50. | :29:55. | |
Let us remember what the consequences would have been | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
for Iran and the world if Teheran had gone down that road, | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
never mind the response of Israel or indeed the United States | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
to the fact of nuclear weapons in the grip of the Iranians, | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
a regime that has been capable of bloodcurdling rhetoric | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
about the mere existence of the Zionist entity. | :30:21. | :30:27. | |
Joining me now is Jack Straw who was foreign secretary when Iran | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
was referred to by America as part of "the axis of evil". | :30:31. | :30:38. | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Melanie Phillips, broadly speaking | :30:39. | :30:45. | |
do you agree with double trap that Iran is a fanatical regime that is | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
intent on acquiring nuclear weapons? Yes, I believe it is a fanatical | :30:51. | :30:56. | |
regime and I believe it is intent on acquiring nuclear weapons. All the | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
evidence, as Boris Johnson said, it was only months away from producing | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
nuclear weapons in 2015. It is the chief funder and backer of terrorism | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
threat the world. But it has been halted? It has been temporarily | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
halted to a certain extent, but the deal is full of holes. Iran has not | :31:16. | :31:21. | |
allowed verification of its principal sites where it is | :31:22. | :31:26. | |
producing, where it is thought to be producing those weapons. Iran is in | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
breach of various aspects of the deal. But the deal itself is | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
basically flawed because far from preventing Iran from getting a | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
nuclear weapons, it allows Iran in ten or 15 years to produce it and as | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
a consequence of Iran signing this deal, a huge amount of money has | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
poured into Iran through sanctions relief, enabling it to arm its game | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
in producing backing for terror and further destabilising the entire | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
regime by backing Hezbollah and Hamas. Why is it a good deal? It is | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
a good deal because it is working. Melanie is wrong to say it has not | :32:06. | :32:11. | |
been implemented, it has. There are over 400 inspectors from the | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
International atomic agency on the ground. The director-general of the | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
IAEA says this is the most comprehensive and intrusive set of | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
inspections ever. They have had to cut the number of centrifuges, they | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
have closed down water reactors that could have made plutonium. They have | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
had to cut their stockpiles of uranium and much else besides. This | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
is far better than the alternative. It is an international agreement | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
which was signed up to by the United Nations on a unanimous basis. I hear | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
what Melanie says, but the truth is what is the alternative to this? You | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
could have a war against Iran, but it would be absolutely... You may | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
not like it or trust it, but isn't Jack Straw correct that the | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
alternative is worse? Jack Straw is completely incorrect to say the deal | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
is working. The IAEA recently stated it was unable to verify that Iran | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
was fully implementing the agreement. Does that mean it is not | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
working? It was unable to verify it because it is not able to inspect | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
the sites. That is crucial. That is what they have said. Also, Iran has | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
broken the terms of agreement on uranium enrichment levels, heavy | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
water production and missile programmes. The alternative is to | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
return to the idea, which is what should happen, that Iran should be | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
perceived as a pariah state in the world and treated as such. Which is? | :33:43. | :33:48. | |
Sanctions. Continue with the economic sanctions? Yes, and do | :33:49. | :33:56. | |
everything to see Iran is trying to advance its strategic position in | :33:57. | :34:00. | |
the region which is a direct threat to the west. Let's go back to the | :34:01. | :34:04. | |
issue of whether they are meeting the terms of the agreement. Our | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
inspectors being allowed into verify it? I have got here the most recent | :34:08. | :34:15. | |
statement by the inspectors to the board of governors of the IEEE eight | :34:16. | :34:25. | |
E and Europe you, excuse me for prattling on about it, you can look | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
this up online. Iran is subject to the well's most robust nuclear | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
verification regime. It says elsewhere in this report that it is | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
implementing the agreement. And it is. Even President Trump's Secretary | :34:40. | :34:46. | |
of State, Rex Tillerson, and most of the sensible grown-ups around the | :34:47. | :34:50. | |
United States administration, accept it is working. Can I make this | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
point? You could have made the argument that Melanie made some | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
years ago to continue with sanctions when sanctions were internationally | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
agreed because of the outrageous behaviour of the previous president. | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
But that changed when President Rohani was elected in 2013 and the | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
world has moved on. If you were to pursue this policy, which is what | :35:15. | :35:17. | |
President Trump is doing, or you end up with is a complete split in the | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
international community, not only with Russia and China separate, but | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
also with major European powers, including the UK, because they know | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
how dangerous it would be to move down this road. Containment Shirley | :35:32. | :35:42. | |
is working better than the idea of allowing the regime, or making it | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
feel more isolated and marginalised in the world as a result of | :35:46. | :35:47. | |
continued sanctions if Donald Trump gets his way? It depends whether you | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
want to marginalise one of the well's most dangerous regimes or | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
whether you want to empower it. I cannot understand why Jack Straw has | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
acted as the chief defender and protector of this uranium regime. | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
You said when President Rouhani came to power he was a great reformer and | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
his election would usher in a new dawn for Iran and you said it would | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
bring stability to the region. As a result of the deal empowering Iran, | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
it is making enormous progress in destabilising the region in Syria, | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
in Iraq where it is getting huge numbers of people against Western | :36:27. | :36:34. | |
interest, and in Yemen. Where is the evidence for destabilising the | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
region? Possible, this deal was about their nuclear activities and | :36:41. | :36:42. | |
had we made it wider, you would never have got a deal and it makes | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
sense to concentrate on their nuclear activities. I do not defend | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
them and I am not their spokesperson. You behave as if you | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
are. That is beyond the level of insult. I am not their spokesperson | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
but I distinguish between the elected government which is a | :37:00. | :37:05. | |
reformer, and the non-elected security forces, they are no | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
particular friend of mine. So far as their foreign policy and the region | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
is concerned, life is full of paradoxes. The Iranians and the | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
United States have recently been working very cooperatively together | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
to remove the Kurds from control of areas like Coco. Iran is a major | :37:25. | :37:31. | |
player in the region and the problem faced by Donald Trump, but not by | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
sensible people like Rex Tillerson or indeed sensible people in Israel, | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
is that people like Donald Trump do not have a strategy for trying to | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
engage with Iran, recognising its strength, and bringing it in. Where | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
is the pressure coming on Donald Trump to do this? To do what he is | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
doing? Yes, if you say the Republicans around him do not agree | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
with him, what is driving him on? Percival, he was to tear up Barack | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
Obama's legacy and he believes all the stuff that Iran is the most | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
dangerous power in the world. I do not accept that. I am quite clear if | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
we do implement this agreement fully, the world would be much | :38:16. | :38:21. | |
safer. Those who are of the reform minded view in Iran will be much | :38:22. | :38:25. | |
more greatly empowered than they are at the moment. Just briefly, do you | :38:26. | :38:33. | |
accept this is a different regime in Iran? Your views in opposition to | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
the country are based on more than what came before? Or do you think | :38:38. | :38:41. | |
the new president is the same messy-mac it completely misses the | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
point. There is only one person who matters in the regime and that is | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
the supreme leader. That is ultimately not the point. I do not | :38:53. | :38:57. | |
believe President Rohani is a reformer. The internal repression in | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Iran that has gone on since he took power, in as he has power, huge | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
numbers of dissidents and people against the regime in prison and so | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
on, I do not see you criticising that as a result of his election. | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
Only one person matters and that is the supreme leader. Iran remains a | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
fanatical regime in a state of self war against the West, responsible | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
for the deaths of many British and American servicemen and women. I | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
sanctions enough? Should there be a war with Iran? Nobody wants a war, | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
what we must stop doing is to continue to empower it and to enable | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
it to continue its infernal activities. Jack Straw, thank you | :39:41. | :39:42. | |
very much for coming in. Jack Straw, thank you very | :39:43. | :39:43. | |
much for coming in. Now, seldom before in British | :39:44. | :39:50. | |
society has so much attention been paid to an individual's sexual | :39:51. | :39:52. | |
and gender identity. For some people it's a long overdue | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
recognition of the persecution For others, the change is too much, | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
too fast, without enough discussion. So on what issues is | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
the debate most heated? This month NHS England said | :40:03. | :40:04. | |
all patients should be asked about sexual orientation at every | :40:05. | :40:07. | |
instance of face-to-face contact. Hospitals are dealing increasingly, | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
too, with the T in LGBT, and a government review | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
led by Justine Greening is considering dropping the need | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria to begin a legally | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
recognised gender transition. That's where an individual feels | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
a mismatch between their gender The British Medical Association | :40:27. | :40:30. | |
already advises its members - that's doctors and medical students | :40:31. | :40:39. | |
- that the term "pregnant people" may be preferable | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
to "expectant mothers". The BMA says this would recognise | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
intersex men and trans men who are pregnant, | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
although they acknowledge a "large majority" of those who've given | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
birth identify as women. This week the Foreign Office denied | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
it had asked the UN to replace the term "pregnant women" | :40:57. | :40:59. | |
with "pregnant people" The FCO said it didn't object | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
to the use of the term women, but it asked the UN to include | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
pregnant trans people And the Office for National | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
Statistics was criticised this month for apparently planning to make | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
a question on gender The ONS says they've "never | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
suggested" people wouldn't be able to report themselves | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
as male or female. Well, to discuss these issues we're | :41:31. | :41:32. | |
joined by the Shadow Women's and Equalities Minister, | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
Dawn Butler. Welcome to the programme. Just | :41:36. | :41:43. | |
before I come to you, Melanie Phillips, what is wrong with doctors | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
asking their patients their sexual orientation? If it has some bearing | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
on the condition the patient is presenting with, it is important | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
they ask such questions. But the idea they should ask questions as a | :41:57. | :42:04. | |
matter of routine if you simply present with a sore throat, that is | :42:05. | :42:08. | |
absurd and that is what this guidance is saying. Is an absurd? I | :42:09. | :42:14. | |
agree in terms of the time GPs have with their patients and the sole | :42:15. | :42:18. | |
purpose must be to establish what is wrong and to do with their medical | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
needs. If it is to do with a medical need, that is fine, but if not, I do | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
not believe it is a necessity. I think the one-to-one 15 minutes | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
time, which is already limited, that must be the priority. You do not | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
think everybody should be asked routinely their sexual orientation? | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
No, I do not think it is necessary. It is for the GP to determine that. | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
Let's move on to the issue of transgender rights. Is it your | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
position that we have gone too far in accommodating people who feel | :42:57. | :42:59. | |
their gender identity and biological sex do not match? Anyone in a | :43:00. | :43:07. | |
situation of gender confusion merits sympathy and understanding. But I | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
also think that we have got ourselves into a situation where | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
there is a body of pressure behind the cause associated with | :43:18. | :43:26. | |
transgender issues which seeks to basically right biological sex out | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
of the script altogether to basically say if I was to say I am a | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
woman, that is somehow causing offence to somebody who is in a | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
state of gender confusion. I think that is not only absurd, it is | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
draconian and even totalitarian, it is denying me the right to say what | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
I am, which is a woman. Do you think that is what is happening? I do not | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
think that is what is happening. It is all about equality and | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
recognising that some people self identify as a different gender and | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
they should be given the opportunity to do that. It is the society you | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
want to live in in terms of looking after people's health and well-being | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
and we need to be mindful of people's circumstances and what they | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
are going through. I agree with that, we should be mindful, | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
compassionate and considerate. That is not what is happening. If you | :44:26. | :44:30. | |
look at the proposal for the census, the proposal is that people should | :44:31. | :44:33. | |
not be required to say whether they are male or female, the consultation | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
document says that it was thought to be irrelevant, unacceptable and | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
intrusive to be asked about sex. But the crucial point is the option of | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
adding a third choice of other was considered problematic because it | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
was thought to modernise trans people and differentiate them from | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
the rest of society. In my view that is what should happen. If people are | :45:01. | :45:05. | |
concerned that transgender people do not find a place in a census | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
questionnaire which simply says male or female, fine, have other. But we | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
cannot have either because to have that would somehow cause offence. In | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
which case I cannot say on the census, or I can say on the census | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
that I am a woman, but the sender 's overall will no longer be reliable | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
as the principal source of statistical information about men | :45:30. | :45:33. | |
and women in the country. That cannot be right. | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
Is that a problem for planning and services going forward if you cannot | :45:38. | :45:46. | |
have reliable figures for numbers of male and female and those who don't | :45:47. | :45:52. | |
identify as either? Absolutely but this is not a concrete proposal or | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
about terminology. I read it as changing the language of sex to | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
gender. Not denying whether you are male or female but changing the | :46:05. | :46:09. | |
language of sex to gender. I agree with that. It's important to | :46:10. | :46:14. | |
understand what the make-up of the country, in terms of male, female | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
and transgender. It's important to note that ensuring that somebody has | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
equal rights doesn't take away from equal rights of others. Equality is | :46:26. | :46:31. | |
equality and that is where we should come from as a base. As the | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
trans-community gets more awareness in the wider community, there are | :46:39. | :46:42. | |
more people seeking treatment at a relatively young age. Isn't that | :46:43. | :46:52. | |
long overdue? It may well be that there was treatment that such people | :46:53. | :46:55. | |
required that they weren't getting in which case I'm very glad if they | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
are now getting it. What worries me is, specifically as far as children | :47:03. | :47:08. | |
are concerned, what is often a passing phase of thinking that you | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
are of the opposite sex, which passes quite normally, is being | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
medicalised and these children are having a label hung around their | :47:18. | :47:21. | |
neck and inappropriate medical intervention is taking place. That's | :47:22. | :47:26. | |
what worries me. That takes away the right of a child to be a child. Is | :47:27. | :47:33. | |
too much medical or invasive surgery being offered to children who are | :47:34. | :47:35. | |
too young to be certain about whether they want to change gender? | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
I don't think we are anywhere near that point at the moment. The gender | :47:41. | :47:47. | |
recognition, the equality act of 2010 needs to be updated. It is to | :47:48. | :47:55. | |
set -- simplistic to say it is a passing phase. We need to be mindful | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
of how people feel about their sexuality. How we address those | :48:02. | :48:05. | |
situations has to be done with care and compassion every time we have a | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
conversation about it. Do you think people who are uncomfortable or | :48:11. | :48:14. | |
sceptical about this issue who say it may be a passing phase or who say | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
there is too much noise around transgender or gender issues in | :48:19. | :48:22. | |
general, do you think that is trans-phobic in your mind? Every | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
time we are talking about somebody else's equality rights, whether it's | :48:28. | :48:34. | |
about women, people of colour, there's an uproar. Now it is about | :48:35. | :48:40. | |
transgender people and there is an uproar. I think we need to take it | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
with care and compassion as we talk about these issues. We talk about | :48:45. | :48:48. | |
the act coming before Parliament, we need to make sure everybody feels | :48:49. | :48:51. | |
comfortable when talking about where they are within themselves. The only | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
people who are likely to be uncomfortable whom are called | :48:59. | :49:07. | |
transcode -- trans-phobic for calling themselves men or women. As | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
we saw with the case of Jermaine Greer they are likely to be held off | :49:15. | :49:22. | |
the stage. These are intolerant attitudes masquerading as | :49:23. | :49:29. | |
compassion. I want to talk to you about Jared O'Mara. I will be using | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
language that some people could consider offensive. He made comments | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
over a decade ago and has resigned from the women and equality is | :49:42. | :49:50. | |
committee. We have had a constituent of his on the programme saying that | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
he called her an ugly bitch. Is that acceptable? It is unacceptable and | :49:56. | :50:04. | |
that is ugly and offensive language. I am pleased that Jared O'Mara has | :50:05. | :50:11. | |
gone on a journey. This was only a few months ago and not 15 years ago | :50:12. | :50:18. | |
when he made those comments. Is he the change man he says he is? He | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
denies he says those things. We have two Agbo as that. Without a shadow | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
of a doubt, it is completely unacceptable language without a | :50:31. | :50:34. | |
shadow of a doubt. I saw the clip. You could see that that lady was | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
quite emotional about that situation. It's wrong. Absolutely | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
wrong. I haven't seen it all, or heard, I know he has denied it. Has | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
he denied saying that to Sophie Evans? Apparently. From what I've | :50:51. | :50:59. | |
read. I don't know. If the allegations are proven to be true, | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
what should happen to Jared O'Mara? If it's proven to be true then it | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
has to go through due process and if that person wants to make an | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
official complaint to the police, they are well within their rights. | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
What should happen politically? Is it acceptable for him to keep the | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
Labour whip? I'm not sure whether he was an MP at the time but what I'm | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
calling for is an HR department in Parliament. There have been many | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
situations that have happened in Parliament where you need an HR | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
department to address that. Labour has a strong and robust harassment | :51:44. | :51:47. | |
policy which anybody could complain to. Should this be investigated by | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
the party? I'm sure it will be investigated by the party. It's an | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
acceptable language. You are the shadow equality is minister, will | :52:00. | :52:01. | |
you be asking the party to investigate? It will be | :52:02. | :52:09. | |
investigated. It is unacceptable language. What I'm saying is, it's | :52:10. | :52:15. | |
not just this one instant or person. There are many issues that need to | :52:16. | :52:21. | |
be dealt with the same way. Let's talk about all circumstances that | :52:22. | :52:28. | |
happen. All racist incidents, sexist incidents, by sitting politicians, | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
let's look at those in the same robust way as we have talked about | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
Jared O'Mara. Now, do the Conservatives have | :52:34. | :52:36. | |
a problem appealing to young people? Ben Bradley, the 27-year-old | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
who won his Mansfield seat from Labour, is setting up a group | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
of all Conservative MPs under 35, to discuss how the party can | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
reconnect with young voters. We'll speak to him shortly, | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
but first here's Emma When you think of politicians, | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
you probably But now there are some | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
new kids on the block. A younger cohort of Conservative MPs | :53:01. | :53:08. | |
are clubbing together WhatsApp group has been up | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
and running for a couple of days. People are being added | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
to it all the time. The number of Conservative MPs under | :53:16. | :53:19. | |
the age of 35 swelled at this year's general election and they believe | :53:20. | :53:22. | |
they have a unique role to play. The party is fortunate | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
to have quite a good number We've got to make sure our voice | :53:27. | :53:28. | |
is heard in the main policy debate. We need to get together, | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
we need to come up with answers to some of the big challenges | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
about the future, how do we help people get | :53:38. | :53:39. | |
on the housing ladder, how do we make sure the economy | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
works, how do we make sure we've got These are all big issues and, | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
actually, younger MPs in the party have a big role to play in making | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
sure we get the answers right. We realised there's quite a lot | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
of those in that 25-40 age group - where we didn't do exactly | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
brilliantly in the election - and these kind of young | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
professionals, young families, are absolutely the sort of voters | :54:01. | :54:02. | |
that the Conservatives We want to use our experience | :54:03. | :54:04. | |
and the fact that we can relate to these people to, | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
kind of, do a bit of message Thank you for inviting | :54:09. | :54:11. | |
me here today! At this year's general election | :54:12. | :54:13. | |
youth voter turnout not only jumped but almost two thirds | :54:14. | :54:17. | |
of 18-29 -year-olds who voted chose But Conservatives have | :54:18. | :54:19. | |
been fighting back. Over the summer, younger | :54:20. | :54:29. | |
conservatives met for what was And this new group of young MPs hope | :54:30. | :54:31. | |
to change the party's image further. You can't continue to put forward | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
very good, very experienced politicians but who are often maybe | :54:38. | :54:39. | |
in their 60s, don't really People feel like, I can't | :54:40. | :54:42. | |
relate to you, so why So, part of that is actually showing | :54:43. | :54:46. | |
that the Conservatives have quite a broad range of MPs from all walks | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
of life and all backgrounds. Are you trying to make | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
the Conservatives cool? I don't know if politicians | :54:58. | :54:59. | |
can ever be cool. What we are trying to do is at least | :55:00. | :55:01. | |
make as little bit more relatable. Emma Vardy there with Conservative | :55:02. | :55:10. | |
MP Paul Masterton. We are joined by the brains behind this group then | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
Bradley. We will go over to Barry who is on college green. Give as the | :55:17. | :55:25. | |
odds on who will be the next Tory leader. At the moment, Boris Johnson | :55:26. | :55:34. | |
is the red-hot favourite. Around 20% chance. The old guard, David Davis, | :55:35. | :55:47. | |
5-1. Jacob Rees-Mogg 13-2. And yet led to some is coming up in the | :55:48. | :55:55. | |
market. -- Andrea Leadsom. We have some younger people in the market. | :55:56. | :56:03. | |
Heidi Alexander has come into 66-1. Then Bradley, a 100-1 chance. The | :56:04. | :56:11. | |
time is right for the Young Turks to step up to the plate. 100-1, do you | :56:12. | :56:20. | |
fancy your chances? You could jump up like Andrea Leadsom. Why has | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
Labour been better at attracting younger voters? About inspiring | :56:27. | :56:35. | |
people. You are never going to reach people unless you tell people you | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
are going to Mike life better for them. Jeremy Corbyn had this | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
message. I totally disagreed with him but we didn't have his positive | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
message. They had a positive message that was communicated more | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
effectively. I think we are too defensive. We need to promote | :56:57. | :56:59. | |
actively the reason why our policies are what they are. Too often, we let | :57:00. | :57:05. | |
them set the agenda and we sat back and defended ourselves. The | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
challenges, if we want to appeal to younger people, not just students, | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
people opt to about 45 who didn't work for us, those of others younger | :57:14. | :57:20. | |
MPs need to get involved in that. It is not just about younger MPs. | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is not a young man by anyone's estimation. He's managed to | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
do it. He has a very different style of politics to most other MPs on all | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
sides. What he does have is the ability to go out and connect with | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
people. We need to show our diversity and that we can engage | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
with different groups of people. Do you think it is going to be a | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
straightforward as that? The point about Jeremy Corbyn in very | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
interesting. Not just that he is relatively old and it's not that he | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
went to last and Brie and wowed them. That came after. -- | :58:01. | :58:08. | |
Glastonbury. Certain young people will gravitate towards the idealism | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
of the Labour programme. I would say unrealistic idealism. What young | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
people really related to was that they believed Jeremy Corbyn was | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
authentic. They believed he would always be true to what he believed. | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
Same thing as Jacob Rees-Mogg. He came up the sweepstake. Just time | :58:26. | :58:35. | |
before we go to find the answer to our quiz. | :58:36. | :58:36. | |
The question was which of these pictures is the odd one out. | :58:37. | :58:39. | |
So, Melanie, what is the correct answer? | :58:40. | :58:42. | |
It is the one on the bottom right because it is not Jeremy Corbyn but | :58:43. | :58:51. | |
somebody a impersonating him. Tracey Ullman, I think. | :58:52. | :58:53. | |
Thanks to all my guests, especially Melanie. | :58:54. | :58:56. | |
The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now. | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
Andrew will be back at 11:30 tomorrow for live coverage | :59:00. | :59:02. |