Browse content similar to 27/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
North Korea has been blamed
for the cyber attacks that hit | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
the NHS back in May,
but is there anything we can | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
actually do about it? | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
Pressure is continuing to mount
on the government to reduce | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
the length of time people have
to wait before they receive | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
universal credit payments. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:56 | |
We'll discuss whether more changes
need to be done to improve | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
the scheme with one
of its original architects. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
The European Parliament has been
debating what can be done | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
to halt sexual harassment,
with many staff in Brussels saying | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
they have been victims themselves. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
And the robots are coming,
but are we ready for them? | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
We'll look at what needs
to be done to prepare us | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
for the robotic revolution. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:25 | |
All that coming up. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
Now I'd like to particularly welcome
rugby league fans who've just been | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
watching England against Australia. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:37 | |
You are smiling, guys, I can't think
what you are smiling about. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
I can assure you politics
is just as exciting, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
if a little dirtier,
and I've got two top pundits | 0:01:43 | 0:01:45 | |
to analyse all the tactics
and the plays, Jenni Russell | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
from the Times and the
Telgraph's Tim Stanley, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
welcome to the programme. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:55 | |
First this morning, Home Office
Minister Ben Wallace has caused | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
a stir by pointing the finger firmly
at North Korea for the cyber attack | 0:01:57 | 0:02:01 | |
whch hit the NHS a few months ago. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
Here's what he had to say. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
Computer crime often leaves a trace
and we have capabilities | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
in government to track that
and I can't go any further | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
into our capabilities,
but there are strong signs it came | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
from North Korea and ourselves
and I think the United States | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
also believe that. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:24 | |
Ben Wallace speaking just a short
while ago. If you stand back a step, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
you have to consider how worrying
and scary it is to see just how | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
vulnerable we are to attacks like
this. Yes, there is obviously | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
something that really no hospital
has ever been prepared for and the | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
trouble is that naturally the NHS
have an ability to withstand this | 0:02:39 | 0:02:44 | |
kind of thing but the individual NHS
trusts with their individual | 0:02:44 | 0:02:49 | |
computer systems, many of which
haven't been updated for some time | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
because it is not a priority, should
I have more nurses and doctors in a | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
Andy or should I get some cyber
security expert in for some vague | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
threat far off in the future?
Understandably they didn't spend a | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
lot of money on cyber security and
they haven't really got the budget | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
for it. It was health trust is
mainly, with thousands of | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
appointments cancelled. It could
have been banks, businesses, any | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
public service. The worry, Tim, has
always been, who knows where this is | 0:03:16 | 0:03:20 | |
coming from? It could be a state, a
terrorist group, a spotty youth in | 0:03:20 | 0:03:25 | |
an attic with a malign intent.
According to Ben Wallace, it's a | 0:03:25 | 0:03:30 | |
rogue state who is a bit of a spotty
youth in an attic who have got it in | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
for us. In which case, what is this?
An overt act of terrorism is to muck | 0:03:33 | 0:03:39 | |
it is hard to know how this will be
dealt with because we cannot go and | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
arrest Kim Jong Un. We are dealing
with a rogue state who are already | 0:03:44 | 0:03:49 | |
under a number of sanctions and
there are fewer and fewer levers we | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
have against them. Exactly, what do
we do? Do we counter attack with | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
cyber warfare? Is there like for
like, I don't know? Pressure is | 0:03:57 | 0:04:05 | |
being put on to China by the UN and
somewhat unfairly, it is portrayed | 0:04:05 | 0:04:11 | |
that Donald Trump is gearing up for
a fight with North Korea. North | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
Korea started this fight and global
actions have to be taken. I suspect | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
in the next few months that
sanctions will get tougher and China | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
will press its partner to clean up
its act. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
The government is under pressure
from Labour and many Conservative | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
MPs to make further changes
to its flagship welfare policy - | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
universal credit. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
On Wednesday, the Prime Minister
announced a major U-turn on housing | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
benefit, when she axed plans to cap
it for people in social housing. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
But those Tory critics
of universal credit want more | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
concessions from ministers. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
Let's take a look... | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
The aim of universal credit
is to roll six existing benefits, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
like housing benefit and tax
credits, into one simpler payment. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
It's paid in arrears,
like having a job, and the standard | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
wait for the first
payment is six weeks. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
Now the government have already
made some changes... | 0:04:56 | 0:05:00 | |
At the start of this month,
they issued new guidance to make it | 0:05:00 | 0:05:05 | |
clearer that advance
payments are available. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
Ministers then said the helpline,
which could cost up to 55p | 0:05:08 | 0:05:10 | |
per minute, would become
a freephone number. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
And this week, the prime minister
said that she was axing plans | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
to cap housing benefit,
which includes the housing part | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
of universal credit,
for social tenants. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
But for many Tory rebels those
changes are not enough. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
They want to see the standard six
week wait cut to just four weeks | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
and they want to see changes
to the so-called "taper rate", | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
which determines how much money
people can keep as they start moving | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
back into work. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:35 | |
It's yet to be seen
whether the government will make | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
further concessions. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:46 | |
With me now is Edward Boyd,
managing director of the Centre | 0:05:46 | 0:05:48 | |
for Social Justice think tank
and a former adviser | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
to the architect of universal
credit, Iain Duncan Smith. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
Welcome to the studio. Thank you for
coming in. Let's look at whether | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
government is on this for now. They
are on the back foot, aren't they? | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
Is it because it was a bad idea?
Because it's badly managed, badly | 0:06:01 | 0:06:06 | |
funded or a combination of the
three? I think you are right. They | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
seem to be on the back foot and
there are broadly two reasons why. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:15 | |
The first is communication from the
government's side on this. You can | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
almost whisper it in Westminster but
if you look at the data on how this | 0:06:19 | 0:06:32 | |
system compares to the last one, it
is not perfect, but all of the data | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
shows it is better. People are more
likely to be in work, more likely to | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
be earning money, and that methods
needs to put out more clearly. There | 0:06:38 | 0:06:43 | |
is a lot of pressure on the
government to ensure the payment | 0:06:43 | 0:06:48 | |
starts sooner. For weeks, not be six
weeks as is the system at the | 0:06:48 | 0:06:52 | |
moment. The idea with a job is that
you get paid at the end of the first | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
period. Six weeks though leaves
people out of pocket, suffering a | 0:06:57 | 0:07:02 | |
great deal, having to go to beat
banks and whatnot. -- food banks and | 0:07:02 | 0:07:08 | |
whatnot. That has got to change,
hasn't it? Yes, you are right. It is | 0:07:08 | 0:07:14 | |
not just how long you wait for your
money but what you get paid. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:18 | |
Whenever I get paid as a first
claimant, you get paid nothing, and | 0:07:18 | 0:07:25 | |
you need to pay for your housing and
food from savings. That can push | 0:07:25 | 0:07:31 | |
people into debt and actually making
sure people get paid from day one | 0:07:31 | 0:07:37 | |
instead of day seven is the big
change we are likely to see the | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
government made and I think they
should make. In the coming budget it | 0:07:40 | 0:07:43 | |
is pretty sure as eggs is eggs that
the announcement will be made by the | 0:07:43 | 0:07:50 | |
Chancellor and the government has
made life tough for itself by | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
holding out. We very much hope that
they will be that and I think the | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
budget is very much the place to
look for that. We will look at | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
whether they get rid of the waiting
dates but also whether they get rid | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
of the taper rate, the amount of
money people can keep when they go | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
into work and earn more money. They
get to keep 37p of money they add an | 0:08:10 | 0:08:19 | |
extra pound he went on the Universal
Credit. That is not enough to | 0:08:19 | 0:08:23 | |
encourage people to go into work, is
it? Do you think they will allow | 0:08:23 | 0:08:27 | |
people to keep more money before
they go into work? I really hope | 0:08:27 | 0:08:41 | |
they will move on this because if
you invest in Universal Credit, you | 0:08:41 | 0:08:46 | |
invest in those struggling most on
the breadline who have not seen pay | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
rises for a number of years. I
deeply encourage them to do this | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
because that is the kind of thing
that shows the government is working | 0:08:52 | 0:08:57 | |
for the whole country. Jenni
Russell, you are not impressed with | 0:08:57 | 0:09:02 | |
how the government has handled this?
No, I wrote an article a few weeks | 0:09:02 | 0:09:07 | |
ago that this would be the
government's poll-tax unless they | 0:09:07 | 0:09:13 | |
did something about it. George
Osborne introduced the seven-day | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
waiting period in which people are
entitled to no money, he is the | 0:09:15 | 0:09:20 | |
person that you could receive after
work. He thought, welfare is an easy | 0:09:20 | 0:09:27 | |
target, people don't care about it.
When you look at Croydon, one of the | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
target -- trial areas, housing
benefit deficit went up to 40% from | 0:09:31 | 0:09:40 | |
10% after Universal Credit. People
are being driven into a position | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
where they cannot pay their bills.
It is not enough to just reduced | 0:09:42 | 0:09:48 | |
waiting to a month. Two fifths of
people in this country get paid | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
weekly or monthly -- or fortnightly.
People who are accustomed to | 0:09:51 | 0:09:57 | |
budgeting weekly or fortnightly
cannot be suddenly pushed to | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
monthly. It has to be an option that
people can be paid fortnightly if | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
they want to and, crucially, that if
they choose their housing benefit | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
payments can go directly to their
landlords which is how it worked | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
under the old system. What is
happening now is people are being | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
paid very late, they can't afford
the loan, money comes in as a large | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
lump sum and understandably they use
the money for rent for living, | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
falling to further arrears and they
get evicted. So many changes need to | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
be made by the government including
on day one that if they need an | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
advance payment, they can get one,
because up until now it has been | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
very clear that you can have one.
Lots of people don't know about it | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
and lots of people never learn about
it. Jenni is absolutely right. It | 0:10:38 | 0:10:44 | |
was in some ways undermined by the
Treasury. They saw welfare reform as | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
a way of saving money. Some of the
stuff that has gone wrong with it is | 0:10:48 | 0:10:54 | |
stuff that wouldn't have happened if
the government had the -- Sibley | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
spoken to benefit claimants, those
affected. It's appalling that people | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
were used for using -- were charged
for using a helpline. It is | 0:11:01 | 0:11:09 | |
inconceivable that someone called a
helpline because they have no money | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
and get charged for it. It makes me
a little ashamed to be British. That | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
is confusing strong leadership with
pig-headedness and I hope the | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
government changes their mind on
this. Are you feeling the government | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
will dig itself at least part of the
way out of this whole, Ed? I think | 0:11:26 | 0:11:31 | |
we will see improvements but what we
have to remember is, you look at the | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
old system, the new system is not
perfect, no system will be, but this | 0:11:34 | 0:11:41 | |
is an improvement, the data is
showing that. This has to be about | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
changing lives, it has to be about
reversing some of those reductions | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
that came in as other guests have
said in order to ensure it always | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
pays to be in work and they have got
a great opportunity to make sure | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
that's the case in the next budget.
Thank you very much for joining us | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
this morning. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
Make no mistake the robots
are coming, it's how we prepare | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
for them that's the issue. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:05 | |
It could be a huge opportunity,
the government estimates that | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
by 2035 artificial intelligence
could add around 630 billion | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
pounds to the UK economy. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:14 | |
The challenge however
is that experts predict | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
hundreds of thousands of us
could find our jobs disappearing | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
as the robots take over. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
This technological revolution
is the subject of a new study | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
by the think-tank Future Advocacy
which looks at which parts | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
of the country are likely to be hit
first and hardest by the rise | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
of the machines. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
Elizabeth Glinka reports. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
The robots are coming. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
Or as experts in this exhibition
at the Manchester Museum of Science | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
and Industry will tell you,
they have been here for a while. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
Robots have been around for hundreds
of years and have a hand in almost | 0:12:46 | 0:12:54 | |
every activity that we do
and that is only going to continue | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
on into the future. | 0:12:57 | 0:12:58 | |
They are like any other technology. | 0:12:58 | 0:12:59 | |
Should you be afraid of smartphones? | 0:12:59 | 0:13:00 | |
Should you be afraid of cars? | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
Should you be afraid
of anything that has | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
changed our lives significantly? | 0:13:04 | 0:13:05 | |
The answer is no. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
You need to embrace
that change and look | 0:13:09 | 0:13:11 | |
at the opportunities
that it presents. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:12 | |
But with opportunity comes
a very real human cost. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:15 | |
Not to be too apocalyptic about it
but it is estimated that | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
by the early 2030s,
between 20 and 40% of the jobs | 0:13:18 | 0:13:22 | |
which are currently done by us
will be done by them. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
Ollie Bastin whose research breaks
down the potential job losses | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
by constituency says
we're massively underprepared. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
It's an extraordinary
level of change. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
We're talking about the equivalent
of the jobs that were lost | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
in the mining industry over decades
happening over a much shorter time | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
frame and we know that story
didn't end well at all. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
There were terrible consequences
for individuals, for families, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
for communities, and so we have got
to do much better this time. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
And the sorts of jobs
which are most likely to be | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
replaced might surprise you. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
It's not just drivers
and data inputers. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
We're also talking about welders,
legal secretaries, butchers | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
and even manicurists. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:08 | |
Home to Heathrow airport,
it's the Shadow Chancellor | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
John McDonald's seat,
Hayes and Harlington, | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
that researchers think
will be hardest hit. | 0:14:13 | 0:14:15 | |
But across the country, it's
the former industrial heartlands, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
places which have already weathered
the decline in heavy industry, | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
which will fare worse. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
The former coalfields
of North Warwickshire | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
are in the top five. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
I think initially it did come
as a bit of a surprise | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
but when you look at the types
of businesses we have | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
in the constituency,
things like manufacturing, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
warehousing, storage,
then you can see these are the types | 0:14:37 | 0:14:39 | |
of businesses that are most likely
to be impacted by automotive agent. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:49 | |
-- automisation. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:51 | |
It's important that government
and local authorities | 0:14:51 | 0:14:52 | |
play their part in making sure that
it's not as destructive | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
as it may be. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
An all-party group on artificial
intelligence was set up in January | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
this year and AI is at least
mentioned in the | 0:15:00 | 0:15:02 | |
government's industrial
strategy but the changes | 0:15:02 | 0:15:03 | |
are happening fast. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
It's a huge economic opportunity
for our country but there are real | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
risks and one of the risks is that
that incredible wealth isn't | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
going to be shared very fairly
and particularly that some people | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
are going to lose out when it comes
to unemployment and their jobs. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
We have a duty to protect them
and help them and make sure | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
that everyone benefits. | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
The latest polling shows
that our views on artificial | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
intelligence differ widely depending
on what it's being asked to do. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
But with the prospect
of hundreds of thousands of job | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
losses just 15 years away,
it's an issue our politicians | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
are going to have to get a grip on. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:42 | |
Fascinating report, in a scary kind
of way! | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
Joining me from Newcastle
is the shadow minister | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
for science and innovation,
Chi Onwurah. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
Do you think that we should be
excited or scared to death? We | 0:15:55 | 0:16:00 | |
should be excited, and we should
also recognise that this is a | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
decision point, a choice, it is not
that we should be afraid, but we | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
need to make changes, we have
choices to be made, so, this report | 0:16:09 | 0:16:14 | |
says that over half of humans
working activities can be automated, | 0:16:14 | 0:16:21 | |
can be robot aside, but only 5% of
actual jobs might disappear, because | 0:16:21 | 0:16:25 | |
that is the difference, only one,
very few jobs go entire leak, if we | 0:16:25 | 0:16:34 | |
can bring new skills and abilities
to them. And there is the | 0:16:34 | 0:16:40 | |
possibility, in particular areas,
which are low skill, that there | 0:16:40 | 0:16:44 | |
would be huge transformation and
loss of jobs. -- roboticised. If | 0:16:44 | 0:16:49 | |
government gets a grip now, and
looks at investing in skills and | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
regulating these new opportunities,
so that we have a greater range of | 0:16:53 | 0:16:59 | |
wealth distribution as a consequence
of it and using the opportunities to | 0:16:59 | 0:17:06 | |
new jobs being created, people make
work for people. The industrial | 0:17:06 | 0:17:11 | |
Revolution created many more jobs
than it is destroyed but it took | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
decades for the benefits to be
shared. We need to take the positive | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
decisions now, investing in skills
and job opportunities, to make sure | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
that those opportunities are shared.
What is politics rising to the | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
challenge, you are describing an
enormous challenge. Basically, 5% of | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
jobs would be at risk of
disappearing. Many more beyond that | 0:17:34 | 0:17:40 | |
could be transformed, do you think
that policymakers across the | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
political divide realise the scale
of what is coming? Tech often scares | 0:17:44 | 0:17:51 | |
people, right now, the government is
August on Brexit, and backstabbing, | 0:17:51 | 0:17:55 | |
if I might say so, so I don't think
the challenges and opportunities are | 0:17:55 | 0:18:01 | |
understood. As a matter of urgency,
if we in invest in skills, right | 0:18:01 | 0:18:12 | |
now, in this country, above the age
of 24, free education is over, you | 0:18:12 | 0:18:16 | |
cannot re-skill yourself unless you
take out huge loans, if you are | 0:18:16 | 0:18:21 | |
eligible, or your company invests in
you. We need to offer retraining, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
reskilling. Robots can be
reprogrammed at zero cost, humans, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:32 | |
does not require too much, but we
are so much more versatile than | 0:18:32 | 0:18:36 | |
robots. There are still many things,
not just talking about writing bad | 0:18:36 | 0:18:41 | |
poetry(!) or betting, there are many
things that robots cannot do... | 0:18:41 | 0:18:47 | |
Writing a column for The Times
newspaper, for instance. LAUGHTER | 0:18:47 | 0:18:51 | |
We need to have more jobs that have
the skills that humans are unique | 0:18:51 | 0:18:57 | |
at, more jobs with those things,
that is what people value, and the | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
robots can do the work we do not
value. I like to talk about existing | 0:19:02 | 0:19:09 | |
intelligence, and assisting
intelligence, robots helping people | 0:19:09 | 0:19:11 | |
to be more productive and helping
the economy to prosper, because that | 0:19:11 | 0:19:15 | |
is the opportunity, if we get it
right. But it is true that these | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
decisions have been taken out,
invest in skills, national education | 0:19:18 | 0:19:25 | |
service, lifelong learning, and
giving people more empowerment, so | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
they are more productive, and the
robots do the boring work. Wouldn't | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
that be lovely. Chi | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
robots do the boring work. Wouldn't
that be lovely. Chi, thank you for | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
joining us. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:44 | |
Now it's time for our regular look
at what's been going on in European | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
politics, and for the next half hour
we'll be examining how our future | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
trading relationship
with the EU might look, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:52 | |
sexual harassment allegations
in the European Parliament, | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
and plans for tighter
European border controls. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
First though here's our 60 second
round up | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
of all the top stories from Brussels
and Strasbourg this week. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:08 | |
Actually, I think we have lost the
report, so instead, let's talk about | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
Europe, much going on in Europe in
many different ways, we have | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
mentioned the headlines, and in a
short while we will be talking about | 0:20:15 | 0:20:20 | |
Catalonia, the big headline, I
think, this morning. Sexual | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
harassment, that was up at the
European Parliament, that is being | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
discussed here at Westminster, I
think that is going to develop over | 0:20:27 | 0:20:31 | |
the weekend, it has a feel of a
story, it is building. And | 0:20:31 | 0:20:35 | |
Catalonia, what do you make of where
we are going with that? The Spanish | 0:20:35 | 0:20:40 | |
leader, now calling on the Senate,
to get on and get ready to deal with | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
Catalonia, by taking away their
effective autonomy. This one will | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
build and build and get rougher and
rougher. You always think that | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
leaders today are not going to
insist upon replicating the mistakes | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
made in the past, but it is
completely free is that you have a | 0:20:57 | 0:21:03 | |
weak Spain unable to retreat from
his position that they cannot | 0:21:03 | 0:21:09 | |
secede, and I Catalonia leader who,
reading between the lines, would | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
like not to have been forced into
glaring independence at this point, | 0:21:12 | 0:21:17 | |
and yet he has pressures within
Catalonia to push him to take a hard | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
line, they are two trains heading
towards one another, they are going | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
to smash, it is insane. Catalonia
declares independence, nobody will | 0:21:24 | 0:21:30 | |
recognise it. Companies are fleeing,
Spanish will create enormous hatred | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
if they dissolve parliament and take
over some powers. We think, you have | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
got to talk, what on earth are you
doing... I will punch you, if you | 0:21:39 | 0:21:44 | |
punch me, I am harder than you
are(!) already had the potential to | 0:21:44 | 0:21:49 | |
be a bitter confrontation, the
violence that we saw surrounding the | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
unlawful referendum. It will get
worse. That set a black backdrop. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:58 | |
This is a clash of two different
kinds of nationalism, the | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
nationalism of an emerging state,
Catalonia, which wants to be free, | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
but the nationalism of Spain, which
says, if you go, we cannot survive. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:11 | |
You are the richest region within
this country. All of this is taking | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
part in the context of a
constitution which sides with the | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
Spanish, but if you test it too far,
push it too far, it will prompt the | 0:22:19 | 0:22:24 | |
central government into doing
something so terrible that it means | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
anybody who it is done to, they have
a moral right to walk away. You see | 0:22:26 | 0:22:32 | |
two kinds of nationalism content
here. The EU does not know what to | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
do. My heart bleeds for it. The EU
has kept clear of it, it's instinct | 0:22:35 | 0:22:41 | |
is not to get involved in an
internal dispute. Sometimes you | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
think that the EU would like the
Europe to be a Europe of regions, | 0:22:44 | 0:22:49 | |
conspiratorially trying to divide up
Britain, hats have a separate Spain, | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
a separate Northern Ireland. But as
Jean-Claude Juncker said recently, a | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
Europe of regions would be far
harder to govern, it is in the best | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
interests of the EU to have a strong
Spain. The EU normally supports | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
emerging nations right to exist,
regional identity, that is what it | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
is about, but it is backing Madrid.
We will be following the storage in | 0:23:09 | 0:23:15 | |
the day, but we have to move on with
that for the moment, but we will get | 0:23:15 | 0:23:20 | |
successive news bulletins, rolling
news through the day, this is a | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
breaking story. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
The key point about talks on trade
between Britain and the EU | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
is they're not happening,
at least not yet. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:31 | |
And they won't start until Britain
comes up with a more generous | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
EU divorce settlement. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:35 | |
The EU side has started to talk
among themselves about trade | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
with Britain, though. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:39 | |
And they're also looking down under
to forge closer ties | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
with Australia and New Zealand. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:42 | |
EU Commission President
Jean Claude Juncker has said an EU | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
trade deal with New Zealand
and Australia will be in place | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
by the end of his term in 2019. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:52 | |
And this week, the EU side said
talks are ready to move | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
onto the next stage. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
The UK won't be able to open
talks with Australia or New Zealand | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
until it leaves the EU in March 2019
but Theresa May remains optimistic | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
about reaching a deal | 0:24:02 | 0:24:03 | |
because these counties are part
of the Commonwealth, | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
and have historic ties to Britain. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:11 | |
The final EU trade deal with
Australia and New Zealand | 0:24:11 | 0:24:16 | |
will be carefully scrutinised
by UK representatives | 0:24:16 | 0:24:21 | |
because it could be viewed
as a "litmus test" for the type | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
of deal the EU could
eventually sign with Britain. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:26 | |
But, such comparisons
are perhaps unwise, | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
as Theresa May has always maintained
she is looking for a "bespoke" trade | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
deal and not an off-the-shelf model. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:32 | |
With me now is the Conservative MEP
and International Trade Spokesman, | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
David Campbell Bannerman. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:41 | |
Morning to you, thank you for coming
in. A bit of context about the | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
importance of all of this,
Australia, in the league table of | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
countries which are an important
trading partner, somewhere below | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
20th. It is about 19th, it depends
upon how you measure it, New Zealand | 0:24:53 | 0:24:59 | |
is slightly smaller. These are
important markets, we should have | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
done these traits deals weight
before this. Yesterday, we had a | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
vote in the European Parliament, we
agreed negotiating guidelines of the | 0:25:07 | 0:25:13 | |
Council, the negotiation will be the
next stage. I am off to New Zealand | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
tonight, long flight, we are moving
ahead. As we rightly say, the New | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
Zealand deal, 80% of it is based on
Canada, the Ceta deal, relevant to | 0:25:21 | 0:25:29 | |
the "Brexit" talks. Canada has done
its deal, seven years to get that | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
done. Not necessarily giving
encouragement to those that say they | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
can do the deal in the blink of an
eye, but the Canada deal does | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
nothing for trading services is the
yellow very little. Very little... | 0:25:40 | 0:25:49 | |
The British economy depends upon
services. They are not necessarily | 0:25:49 | 0:25:59 | |
the pot of gold at the end of the
"Brexit" rainbow. Tariffs are | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
important, New Zealand lamb is
subject to quotas, we import a lot, | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
after quota comes to Britain, these
things are relevant, we sell a lot | 0:26:07 | 0:26:13 | |
of Land Rovers and mechanical goods
to New Zealand and Australia. It is | 0:26:13 | 0:26:17 | |
worth getting rid of the tariffs,
and that is key, they are still | 0:26:17 | 0:26:22 | |
operating under World Trade
Organisation rules, heavy tariffs in | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
certain areas, so that is worth
having. Services has to be a big | 0:26:25 | 0:26:30 | |
bolt on. It is important to New
Zealand as well, not just | 0:26:30 | 0:26:35 | |
agriculture, a lot of it is
services, that is very relevant to | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
the UK. And the City of London. That
is all doable, and I think the super | 0:26:38 | 0:26:43 | |
Canada deal, taking the Ceta deal by
bolting on a lot more in services. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:49 | |
Mentioning lamb, you are an East of
England MEP, a lot of farmers on | 0:26:49 | 0:26:54 | |
your patch. How do they feel about
the idea of agricultural produce, | 0:26:54 | 0:26:59 | |
including lamb, flooding into the
market. British lamb producers have | 0:26:59 | 0:27:09 | |
shown concern about the New Zealand
deal in particular. One minister | 0:27:09 | 0:27:16 | |
said it would be the end of farming
in Wales. It depends upon what the | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
Regina is going to be post "Brexit",
we signed up to the same regime, the | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
same single farm payments, and I
think we can look after our farmers, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
but open up the markets. The quotas
are pretty restrictive New Zealand | 0:27:29 | 0:27:34 | |
lamb, for example, and I think...
What about the consumer, we have to | 0:27:34 | 0:27:40 | |
look after the British consumer, we
can drive down food prices by being | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
outside the customs union. You are a
great Brexiteer, you believe | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
passionately in your calls, there is
a fair chance you will either have | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
to deal with angry farmers, I don't
know if they will be burning tyres | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
on the M25 not, and you may be
dealing with consumers looking at | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
prices in the supermarket is up. --
M20. Look at the whole area, driving | 0:28:02 | 0:28:08 | |
up quality in the shops, in the
supermarkets, opening up markets for | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
our farmers as well as New Zealand
and Australian farmers. I don't | 0:28:11 | 0:28:16 | |
think it is a zero sum game and we
should not look at it like that. You | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
mean, you can up set everyone at the
same time(!) LAUGHTER | 0:28:21 | 0:28:28 | |
The EU is very resistant to certain
things, French producers already are | 0:28:28 | 0:28:32 | |
saying they will exclude sensitive
products from Australia and New | 0:28:32 | 0:28:38 | |
Zealand in that trade deal but the
British trades deal which followed | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 | |
Brexit may not do so. We will look
after farmers, absolutely. When you | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
listen to the debate that has been
going on this week on the subject of | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
trade policy, European Union,
getting to "Brexit" Day, March 2019, | 0:28:49 | 0:28:54 | |
with a trade deal done and dusted,
everything else done and dusted, not | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
just in March 2019 but months before
that, how much are you convinced by | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
it? This is like being asked to clap
your hands if you believe in | 0:29:03 | 0:29:07 | |
fairies, I cannot cut my hands, we
know perfectly well that we are not | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
going to get any kind of trade deal.
She does believe in fairies. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:17 | |
1-dayers... Good! LAUGHTER
The relatively simple Canada deal | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
should have taken seven years, it is
still not resolved, we cannot get | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
these details traits deals, they
will not happen, even if they were | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
to happen they would not be to our
advantage. At the moment, research | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
has shown that we will lose one
quarter of the value of our trade | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
and services, and one fifth of our
trade in goods with the European | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
Union if we leave, if we make
fantastic trade deals with the ten | 0:29:40 | 0:29:44 | |
other biggest economies in the world
including the US and India, we will | 0:29:44 | 0:29:48 | |
make up one tenth of the value of
what we are going to lose. The other | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
point is, that will take years. At
the moment we are entirely ignoring | 0:29:52 | 0:29:57 | |
the other thing, whether we stick to
EU regulations, at the moment, the | 0:29:57 | 0:30:02 | |
Canada deal has nothing to say to
that, if we try to export irons to | 0:30:02 | 0:30:07 | |
France in the future, and we are not
sticking to EU regulations on Irons, | 0:30:07 | 0:30:13 | |
the French. Goods the border and
search them, that is why customs | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
will not be able to keep up with the
demands. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
Tim, can you explain to Jenni why
she is wrong, why there are visiting | 0:30:24 | 0:30:28 | |
about... I am open-minded. I think
Brexit has been spoken about in this | 0:30:28 | 0:30:39 | |
way too much, people punishing each
other, Britain has done a silly | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
thing and they will get punished for
it. But business does not work like | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
that. Business people and voters
want trade because trade in riches | 0:30:46 | 0:30:51 | |
everyone. That is what the next age
will be. Once we leave the EU, what | 0:30:51 | 0:30:56 | |
is exciting is we will be able to
make money with other people and one | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
of the great things we have working
to our advantage of EU regulatory | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
compliance. We have exactly the same
regulations as the EU so whenever | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
the EU does something -- does a deal
with someone, we only have to come | 0:31:07 | 0:31:13 | |
up behind ago, are next. Yes, but if
they change, we would have to change | 0:31:13 | 0:31:19 | |
with them or lose the market. We
would be in charge of our own | 0:31:19 | 0:31:24 | |
regulations. When it is outside of
the EU, it has exactly that | 0:31:24 | 0:31:30 | |
flexibility to adapt to markets. I
would just say that Canada only took | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
three years to negotiate and we
don't have 16,500 goods tariffs, we | 0:31:34 | 0:31:39 | |
have no quotas, and all our years
are going to be taken in, hence the | 0:31:39 | 0:31:48 | |
repeal bill. And what we are going
to do on leaving the EU is diverged | 0:31:48 | 0:31:52 | |
on everything and the minute we
diverged on a single regulation, | 0:31:52 | 0:31:57 | |
they are going to have to check the
import of everything in practice in | 0:31:57 | 0:32:02 | |
case we are not sticking to their
regulations. It is all agreeable. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:08 | |
No, it isn't. You can't have it both
ways. 80% of our trade is within the | 0:32:08 | 0:32:14 | |
UK. 20% is international and 90% of
that growth will come from outside | 0:32:14 | 0:32:19 | |
of Europe. Not on the latest
figures. David, your confidence is | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
infectious. Let's come back in two
years to see. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:36 | |
As we heard earlier,
the most powerful debate | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
in the European Parliament this week
was about sexual harassment | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
and whether the European Union
should do more to combat it. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:43 | |
However during the discussion
the focus also shifted | 0:32:43 | 0:32:45 | |
onto the Parliament itself with many
stories emerging of staff being | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
the victims of harassment and abuse. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:49 | |
Here's what EU Commissioner Cecilia
Malmstrom had to say | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
when she opened the debate. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:53 | |
Women that have been
in some form or another | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
harassed by their boss,
by their colleague, | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
by their teacher, their neighbour
or a stranger on the street. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
These stories shout to us. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
It's a feminist outcry
from all across the world | 0:33:02 | 0:33:06 | |
from women who said enough. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
This is enough. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:10 | |
We refuse to be silent,
we refuse to accept. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:12 | |
We have set aside 6 million euros
last year and 12.7 for this year, | 0:33:12 | 0:33:18 | |
million, and projects across the EU
have been a lifeline for many | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
organisations who otherwise
would not be able to do their work. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:31 | |
Joining me now is the Labour MEP
Neena Gill who's been | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
following the debate closely. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:36 | |
Hello. Just give us a bit of
background. We know the problem. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:43 | |
What can the European Union do about
it? Well, firstly we have to put our | 0:33:43 | 0:33:49 | |
own house in order and that's what
we've been trying to do. I mean, | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
clearly we need to make sure that
there is a safe place for victims to | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
be able to come through and raise
these issues but beyond that we are | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
looking at having a committee where
MEPs, who like many people in this | 0:34:01 | 0:34:06 | |
situation have disproportionate
power against very many, let's say | 0:34:06 | 0:34:13 | |
young women, because it is
disproportionately women who are | 0:34:13 | 0:34:16 | |
affected, so what we are doing is
asking the bureau of the parliament | 0:34:16 | 0:34:20 | |
to make sure they take action. We
will talk about the European | 0:34:20 | 0:34:29 | |
Parliament in a second, Neena, but
as an institution, the union, | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
Brussels, what can they do about
this across Europe? I think we need | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
to make sure that it is actually,
you know, it is already illegal but | 0:34:38 | 0:34:43 | |
that all the member states are
implementing the laws properly, that | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
there is a legal let's say
punishment or procedure in countries | 0:34:46 | 0:34:53 | |
in member states. Is that not up to
member states? Yes, but the EU can | 0:34:53 | 0:34:59 | |
pass regulation to that effect and
we need to also propose that there | 0:34:59 | 0:35:06 | |
is a new regulation about violence
against women. So, you know, there | 0:35:06 | 0:35:11 | |
is something the EU can do. The UN
is talking about it. It is not just | 0:35:11 | 0:35:17 | |
a problem facing Europe, it is a
global problem and the UN, the | 0:35:17 | 0:35:22 | |
European Union and other regional
bodies that we are working with, we | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
could make it unacceptable, that it
is not OK. A bit like we have made | 0:35:25 | 0:35:30 | |
smoking in this country, it is not
acceptable to trivialise sexual | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
harassment. Smoking and sexual
harassment are a little different, | 0:35:34 | 0:35:38 | |
but we take your point. You mention
Parliament itself and what seems to | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
have been going on, what is said to
have been going on that by way of | 0:35:42 | 0:35:47 | |
women not being safe inside the
Parliament of the European Union. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
What sort of examples are we talking
about here? Well, we have the | 0:35:50 | 0:35:56 | |
majority of people in power still
are men both in terms of the | 0:35:56 | 0:36:01 | |
officials and parliamentarians. You
have very many young women who come | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
to work in Parliament or come for
work experience and of course you | 0:36:04 | 0:36:12 | |
have this imbalance of power and
often somehow there is a feeling a | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
bit like in the film industry and in
politics here as well that it's OK, | 0:36:17 | 0:36:23 | |
young women are expected to do more
than the job they are there to do. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:29 | |
Someone was saying there is a
culture of silence around the | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
Parliament, people felt unable to
raise concerns they had all tell | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
stories of what they had been
through. Exactly. This is the same | 0:36:36 | 0:36:41 | |
scenario elsewhere. Whether you are
in Westminster, a big corporation, | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
you know that your job is at risk
and that is the problem. That is the | 0:36:45 | 0:36:51 | |
reason there is silence, because
most people are too afraid and they | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
don't know the mechanisms. Now, two
years ago Parliament did set up a | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
body to say, we know some of this
harassment exist and we want to set | 0:37:00 | 0:37:05 | |
up an organisation where the
assistance can go to but really it's | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
not that well-known and it hasn't
operated as well as it should have | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
been. But now with a Brussels-based
paper sort of setting up a | 0:37:12 | 0:37:16 | |
confidential forum, more people have
come out and more women have come | 0:37:16 | 0:37:22 | |
out and made these allegations and I
think it's totally unacceptable. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
Jenni, what do you think? Is there a
role for politics at a European | 0:37:25 | 0:37:30 | |
level to make a difference here? I
think the problem is that as | 0:37:30 | 0:37:35 | |
somebody who's lived through 30
years of all of this as everything a | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
woman I know has done, the sheer
practicality of it. I know a young | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
woman at a moment working in an
organisation with absolutely | 0:37:43 | 0:37:46 | |
fabulous liberal policies. Her
married male bosses are not | 0:37:46 | 0:37:51 | |
answering her professional queries
during the day but hitting on her | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
every single night with text
messages telling her how much they | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
want to go to bed with her, what
they'd like to do in bed with her. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
What is she to do in that situation?
If she reports them, they are not | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
going to lose their jobs but they
are going to hate her and she will | 0:38:07 | 0:38:12 | |
get a reputation as a troublemaker
and her career in the industry where | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
she is just starting out may well
never go anywhere because other | 0:38:15 | 0:38:20 | |
employees particular -- other
employers particularly men would | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
think, I don't want her in my
office. It's down to the power | 0:38:25 | 0:38:29 | |
imbalance. It doesn't matter how
many confidential lines you have, if | 0:38:29 | 0:38:33 | |
that woman reports babies, they know
who has reported it. We have to move | 0:38:33 | 0:38:40 | |
on. Thank you. -- if that woman
reports the abuse. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:46 | |
Who's coming in and who's going out? | 0:38:46 | 0:38:47 | |
This week MEPs voted to introduce
new entry and exit checks for people | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
visiting the borderless Schengen
area from outside of Europe. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
It's designed to plug a gap
in the EU's border security, | 0:38:53 | 0:38:55 | |
while Europol will use
the new database to identify | 0:38:55 | 0:38:58 | |
terrorists and track
criminal suspects. | 0:38:58 | 0:38:59 | |
Adam Fleming reports
from Strasbourg. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:00 | |
Comings and goings
at the parliament. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:01 | |
This is all about entry and exit
to the EU by nationals | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
from non-EU countries. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
In the analogue era,
all you needed was a passport | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
with a visa and some stamps in it. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:16 | |
Under the digital entry
and exit system, there | 0:39:16 | 0:39:18 | |
will be a joint database | 0:39:18 | 0:39:19 | |
of biometric information
which will tell border guards that | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
somebody has stayed in the EU
for longer than the 90 days | 0:39:22 | 0:39:25 | |
that they are allowed. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
It is essential that we effectively
manage, protect and secure | 0:39:27 | 0:39:31 | |
our external borders, that we have
full knowledge of who comes in. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:38 | |
It is in this spirit that we have
proposed the entry exit system. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:43 | |
It's designed to help stop
terrorists, like the perpetrator | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
of the Berlin attack last Christmas. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:57 | |
He travelled using 15
different identities. | 0:39:57 | 0:39:58 | |
But some MEPs have been torn
between security and human rights. | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
It is a balance compromise. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:02 | |
In the first place,
I was against these smart borders | 0:40:02 | 0:40:05 | |
but the latest developments show us
Europeans are concerned | 0:40:05 | 0:40:07 | |
and security is a problem. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:09 | |
We have to strengthen our borders. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:14 | |
But on the other hand,
it has to go hand-in-hand | 0:40:14 | 0:40:16 | |
with fundamental rights. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
The time that personal data would be
held has been a big deal. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
It has been reduced during
the passage of the legislation | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
but it is still too long for some. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
My main concern is that
here there is a huge | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
collection of travellers' data
from all travellers coming | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
to the European Union
and going outside and retention | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
for up to three years of this data,
no matter if that person | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
is suspicious or risky. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:43 | |
And that is something which I think
is disproportionate. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
We need to focus on those persons
who are risky and suspicious | 0:40:47 | 0:40:50 | |
and collect more data on those
rather than having a general | 0:40:50 | 0:40:54 | |
suspicion towards all travellers. | 0:40:54 | 0:41:00 | |
And trust Ukip's Gerard Batten
to find a Brexit angle. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:03 | |
He's even written a book about it. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:08 | |
We will be affected
after we leave the European Union | 0:41:08 | 0:41:10 | |
because we will be a third country,
so our biometric data will be shared | 0:41:10 | 0:41:14 | |
with all of the countries
of the European Union. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
It's not unreasonable for European
countries to want a system. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:19 | |
The USA have a system,
the UK has the system, | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
they need their own system. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
My concern is that we are sharing
information across the board | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
with the EU and this will be
shared with countries | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
that we cannot trust,
they are deeply corrupted, | 0:41:30 | 0:41:32 | |
institutionally corrupted. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:33 | |
Another country that
comes up is Canada. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
Yes, I know it's not in the EU
but it has signed a deal | 0:41:37 | 0:41:41 | |
with the EU to share | 0:41:41 | 0:41:42 | |
airline passenger data,
a deal that's been held | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
up because of a ruling
by the European Court of Justice. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
Some MEPs think the same thing
could happen with this legislation. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:49 | |
If it did, that might mean the entry
exit legislation isn't ready | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
to go in 2020 as planned. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:59 | |
Adam Fleming with that report. Tim
Stanley, we are back again right in | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
the middle of the argument of the
balance between security and | 0:42:03 | 0:42:06 | |
privacy. Has that balance shifted?
It is perfectly reasonable for the | 0:42:06 | 0:42:11 | |
EU to say it wants to better monitor
who is coming in and out. After all, | 0:42:11 | 0:42:16 | |
the context of this is that huge
march of refugees across the | 0:42:16 | 0:42:21 | |
continent, the context of national
countries having to set up borders | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
again within Schengen, which they
don't want to do, and the context is | 0:42:25 | 0:42:30 | |
terrorism. So it's perfectly
reasonable they should police their | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
borders. Gerard Batten is right. I
would say it's perfectly reasonable | 0:42:33 | 0:42:38 | |
for the UK to say hey, we don't want
you holding alloy that is in state | 0:42:38 | 0:42:43 | |
for three years. So what was once an
internal UK -- EU discussion is now | 0:42:43 | 0:42:49 | |
a discussion between the EU and a
nation state. Let the UK make a case | 0:42:49 | 0:42:57 | |
for its citizens privacy. We heard
in the report that the very real | 0:42:57 | 0:43:00 | |
concern about data being held but
when you look at the threat across | 0:43:00 | 0:43:06 | |
the world including countries in
Europe, can we simply not be too | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
squeamish about this stuff now? I
think you have to keep wondering | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
about what powers governments have
because none of us want to end up in | 0:43:12 | 0:43:18 | |
a situation where some right-wing
government or some very left-wing | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
government then starts misusing data
in a way that we don't anticipate, | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
so I think it's very important that
we keep worrying about what they do. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:30 | |
Tim is absolutely right. The world's
preoccupations have shifted. We | 0:43:30 | 0:43:34 | |
don't know, for example, who other
members of Isis or Al-Qaeda among | 0:43:34 | 0:43:40 | |
the million refugees who came into
Europe last year and is absolutely | 0:43:40 | 0:43:44 | |
right and citizens would demand that
the EU should be intelligent about | 0:43:44 | 0:43:48 | |
the state. There's also an element
of hypocrisy that on the one hand | 0:43:48 | 0:43:52 | |
the UK once open -- the EU wants
open borders... It's a trade-off, | 0:43:52 | 0:43:59 | |
isn't it? That is all for now. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:04 | |
Thanks to all my guest
and particularly Tim | 0:44:04 | 0:44:06 | |
and Jenni for joining me throughout
the programme, goodbye. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:10 | |
Ooh, yes. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:15 |