31/10/2017 Daily Politics


31/10/2017

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 31/10/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome

to the Daily Politics

0:00:370:00:43

Fixed odds betting terminals have

been blamed for a dramatic rise

0:00:430:00:45

in problem gambling.

0:00:450:00:49

Do Government proposals to cap

stakes on the lucrative

0:00:490:00:51

machines go far enough?

0:00:510:00:55

A no deal Brexit could cost

75,000 finance jobs -

0:00:550:01:00

so says the Bank of England -

but is the bank just getting

0:01:000:01:04

in the Halloween spirit

with more project fear?

0:01:040:01:05

The family of a British man,

captured by Kurdish forces in Syria,

0:01:050:01:08

say he is being tortured.

0:01:080:01:09

But should someone who has been

accused of supporting so-called

0:01:090:01:12

Islamic State expect assistance

from UK authorities?

0:01:120:01:18

And politicians are

constantly haunted by bad

0:01:180:01:20

decisions they've made

but are there real ghosts and ghouls

0:01:200:01:22

stalking the Palace of Westminster?

0:01:220:01:27

All that in the next hour

and with us for the whole

0:01:320:01:35

of the programme today is a woman

for whom the word "tsar" might have

0:01:350:01:38

been first appropriated -

in British politics at least.

0:01:380:01:42

Louise Casey was Homelessness Tsar

for Tony Blair, she then headed up

0:01:420:01:52

the Anti-social Behaviour Unit

and most recently she's completed

0:01:520:01:54

a review into community cohesion

and extremism in a report that

0:01:540:01:57

bears her name.

0:01:570:01:58

Welcome to the programme.

0:01:580:01:59

First this morning,

the Resolution Foundation think tank

0:01:590:02:01

has called for Government

to reduce the six-week wait

0:02:010:02:03

for Universal Credit payments

by 10 days.

0:02:030:02:10

The think thank that exists to

improve outcomes for people on low

0:02:100:02:14

and modest incomes, says the welfare

reform should not be abandoned but

0:02:140:02:18

that in its current form it is not

"fit for purpose in 21st century

0:02:180:02:24

Britain."

0:02:240:02:26

The report comes as the Government

prepares to reveal the details

0:02:260:02:29

of the changes Theresa May announced

to Housing Benefit at Prime

0:02:290:02:31

Minister's Questions last week.

0:02:310:02:33

Louise Casey, you said it is like

jumping over a cliff. Once we jump,

0:02:330:02:39

people end up in circumstances and

we don't want that happening, more

0:02:390:02:43

dire than we have seen in years. If

Universal Credit is rolled out in

0:02:430:02:47

the way the Government proposes, do

you still think that?

I do. I think

0:02:470:02:52

it is fund amentally flawed policy

when it comes to delivery. Everybody

0:02:520:02:55

agrees work should pay and that

everybody agrees in the overall

0:02:550:02:58

position but the fact of the matter

is, if you stake is somewhere like

0:02:580:03:03

Doncaster, over 50% of the

population are paid less than

0:03:030:03:06

monthly. It is all right for all of

us being paid monthly when you say

0:03:060:03:13

the Government dropping to four

weeks from six weeks, won't be good

0:03:130:03:18

enough. I feel strong lane the

Resolution Foundation and Lloyds

0:03:180:03:22

Bank have said people going on to

Universal Credit are the opposite of

0:03:220:03:26

people paid monthly, ie almost 60%

of those people are on less than

0:03:260:03:30

monthly payments. So everybody going

- oh, no, OK, monthly will be fine,

0:03:300:03:36

because that's what the vast

majority of us think that everybody

0:03:360:03:39

is paid, the cycles they are paid

on, will not work. My point is, it

0:03:390:03:43

is a flawed delivery. When things

are flawed, in terms of delivery,

0:03:430:03:47

it's really all right to say - we

are not getting the intention of the

0:03:470:03:50

policy right, we are going to change

it, but they have to change it

0:03:500:03:58

properly. The Government of course

says it has been piloted and worked

0:03:580:04:02

for a large number of people. You

gave me some statistics which sound

0:04:020:04:07

like the vast majorities of those on

low incomes don't work on a month

0:04:070:04:14

lay basis, are you saying it should

be shortened? I think it should be

0:04:140:04:18

proportionate to the money people

are paid on when they need benefit T

0:04:180:04:21

wouldn't be that difficult to do. If

people are paid weekly we should

0:04:210:04:25

help them from the week they are not

paid from. We are ending up with a

0:04:250:04:30

benefit system that is punitive. I

don't think we should have a benefit

0:04:300:04:33

system that should punish poor

people. We should have a benefit

0:04:330:04:37

system that supports poor people in

getting back into work.

What do you

0:04:370:04:40

say to the Government that says,

yes, a majority of people who have

0:04:400:04:45

jobs are paid on a monthly basis and

that's what other people should try

0:04:450:04:49

and aspire to do, manage their

finances and benefit on the same

0:04:490:04:52

basis.

That's all right when you are

in the Palace of Westminster and

0:04:520:04:56

paid monthly it is not all right on

the streets of places like Doncaster

0:04:560:05:00

and Manchester and Newcastle and

Sunderland, where people are not

0:05:000:05:02

paid on a monthly basis and that's

part of the problem here. With this

0:05:020:05:11

difference between essentially

Westminster politics and the

0:05:110:05:13

government not being in touch with

what they want that you are policy

0:05:130:05:16

to deliver. Theresa May said on the

door of Downing Street that she was

0:05:160:05:19

a one nation politician and she

would help the people that were

0:05:190:05:23

powerful and had no voice. This is

an example of where she could make a

0:05:230:05:26

change to deliver on that promise.

Why do you think they are not doing

0:05:260:05:30

it? They have constituents, they

have postbags, they will know, of

0:05:300:05:35

examples, maybe not so much in

places like Maidenhead, Theresa

0:05:350:05:39

May's constituency, but they will

know about these issues, why are

0:05:390:05:42

they not changing it?

I did 18 years

of working for ministers and for

0:05:420:05:50

Prime Ministers in Whitehall. Quite

often when a approximatelicy is set,

0:05:500:05:53

it becomes set in stone and then

people get into defending it and

0:05:530:05:57

then people want it to continue and

then they tribe find small

0:05:570:06:03

Amelliourations to it and it goes on

and on. The country is frayed at the

0:06:030:06:12

edges, the last thing we need to do

is punish the poor even more for

0:06:120:06:16

being poor.

You have said there are

things that are done around the

0:06:160:06:21

edges of policies set in stone, even

if in your mind they are not going

0:06:210:06:25

to be delivered properly. We have

had the helpline made free. The

0:06:250:06:29

guidance to job centre staff has

been updated on how people can

0:06:290:06:32

access emergency payments and of

course the U-Turn that the

0:06:320:06:35

Government is set, to drop plans to

cap housing benefit for people

0:06:350:06:40

living in social rented

accommodation. Is that enough?

No,

0:06:400:06:44

not when it Co comes to the specific

policy of Universal Credit. All of

0:06:440:06:48

those things are more than helpful.

They are great, particularly if they

0:06:480:06:51

change the housing benefit rules but

if you come back to this one

0:06:510:06:56

particular flagship policy - there

are two things that are a problem

0:06:560:06:59

with it, the people entering into it

are paid less than monthly, the vast

0:06:590:07:09

majority and the second thing,

hardship payments are not payments

0:07:090:07:11

they are loans. The line many

ministers and others are using, we

0:07:110:07:16

are helping people they can apply

for these loans, will mean that

0:07:160:07:19

people will still not get the right

amount of help. This is a country

0:07:190:07:23

that needs to take stock of the fact

that Westminster is out of kilter

0:07:230:07:29

with the vast majority of many

people in some of our poorer and

0:07:290:07:33

tougherers why. And this will be a

-- tougher areas. This is a symbolic

0:07:330:07:39

change that the Government has

listened?

Do you think they'll

0:07:390:07:41

shorten the waiting time?

I think

they will shorten it, but whether it

0:07:410:07:49

will be enough?

Now to something

different:

0:07:490:07:57

Time for our daily quiz.

0:07:570:07:59

The question for today is:

0:07:590:08:00

it's Halloween, or All Hallow's Eve,

the scariest day of the year

0:08:000:08:03

but which ghost is said to haunt

Number 10?

0:08:030:08:05

Is it A, The Lady in White

who wonders between

0:08:050:08:07

the state dining rooms.

0:08:070:08:08

B, the Ghost of Humphrey,

former Downing Street cat?

0:08:080:08:10

C, the Phantom Policeman,

who keeps watch over

0:08:100:08:12

British Prime Ministers?

0:08:120:08:13

Or D, the spirit of

Jean Claude Juncker?

0:08:130:08:15

At the end of the show Louise

will give us the correct answer.

0:08:150:08:23

you haven't been a tsar for that

long without knowing who the ghost

0:08:230:08:26

is.

0:08:260:08:28

This morning, it emerged

that the Bank of England believes

0:08:280:08:30

that up to 75,000 jobs could be lost

in the UK's financial services

0:08:300:08:33

sector after Brexit,

particularly if there is no deal

0:08:330:08:35

between Britain and the EU.

0:08:350:08:40

And ministers are also preparing

for battles in Parliament -

0:08:400:08:42

where opposition and Conservative

MPs are tabling hundreds

0:08:420:08:44

of amendments to the Government's

Brexit legislation.

0:08:440:08:46

For many people who voted

to leave the EU, it amounts

0:08:460:08:48

to an attempt to derail Brexit.

0:08:480:08:50

Let's take a look.

0:08:500:08:55

In the view of the Bank of England,

the loss of 75,000 is a "reasonable

0:08:550:08:59

scenario", especially

if there is not a deal

0:08:590:09:01

covering financial services.

0:09:010:09:02

Meanwhile, ministers have revealed

a list of the 58 sectors

0:09:020:09:07

of the economy in which they have

assessed the impact of Brexit

0:09:070:09:10

but they're resisting calls

to publish the results

0:09:100:09:12

of those assessments.

0:09:120:09:15

And yesterday chief

Brexit negotiator,

0:09:150:09:17

Michel Barnier, took time to meet

0:09:170:09:18

three senior anti-Brexit

British politicians.

0:09:180:09:24

"The Rebels" - as they called

themselves - included the former

0:09:240:09:26

Conservative Chancellor, Ken Clarke,

and former Liberal Democrat

0:09:260:09:28

leader, Nick Clegg.

0:09:280:09:29

In Parliament, the Government's

flagship piece of Brexit

0:09:290:09:31

legislation, the EU Withdrawal Bill,

will be back in the Commons

0:09:310:09:34

in exactly two weeks.

0:09:340:09:36

Ministers will then have to tangle

with a huge number of possible

0:09:360:09:43

and Conservative MPs.

0:09:430:09:46

The total is currently 347

0:09:460:09:47

amendments.

0:09:470:09:49

And the Withdrawal Bill is just one

of eight Brexit bills

0:09:490:09:51

that the Government

wants to become law.

0:09:510:09:58

But it's not just those Brexit bills

that could be amended.

0:09:580:10:00

Yesterday, the Government appeared

to be facing defeat in the House

0:10:000:10:03

of Lords with a Labour amendment

seeking to include part of the EU's

0:10:030:10:08

Charter of Fundamental Rights

in the Data Protection Bill but in

0:10:080:10:10

the end the amendment wasn't moved.

0:10:100:10:12

And joining me now is

the Culture Minister, Matt Hancock.

0:10:120:10:14

Let's start with the issue of the

data protection bill, which you are

0:10:140:10:18

responsible for. Now we reported

yesterday Labour wanted part of the

0:10:180:10:23

EU's Charter of Fundamental Rights

put into the bill and it was thought

0:10:230:10:26

you could be facing defeat. It was

then withdrawn. Are you breathing a

0:10:260:10:29

huge sigh of relief?

I think we won

the argument. Labour put forward

0:10:290:10:33

this amendment. I know you discussed

it on the programme yesterday. The

0:10:330:10:38

amendment would've had some very

serious negative repercussions. We

0:10:380:10:48

thought carefully about this bill

and bills before Parliament and I'm

0:10:480:10:51

glad we decided at the last minute

not to push the amendment. Part of

0:10:510:10:56

the parliamentary process is looking

at the amendments tabled and seeing

0:10:560:11:00

if any has any merit and if you

think that some are damaging, then

0:11:000:11:04

pushing back and winning the argue

um.

Do you see that Brexit is now

0:11:040:11:08

going to impact on the wider

legislative agenda and actually the

0:11:080:11:13

opposition will take opportunities

to make life more difficult for the

0:11:130:11:16

Government with bills like data were

text. I mean it is not even one of

0:11:160:11:20

the Government's eight Brexit bills?

No, I suppose the data protection

0:11:200:11:24

bill shows that Parliament is

getting on with delivering important

0:11:240:11:28

legislation as well as Brexit. Of

course the withdrawal bill is a

0:11:280:11:32

serious piece of legislation and

will take significant amounts of

0:11:320:11:37

parliamentary time it properly be

scrutinised and, of course by its

0:11:370:11:41

nature. But, therein, the biggest

piece of legislation in front of

0:11:410:11:46

Parliament at the moment is the data

protection bill and it is bringing

0:11:460:11:50

our data rules into the modern age

and preparing us for this enormous

0:11:500:11:54

digital transformation. So, it shows

that we are getting on with

0:11:540:11:58

preparing the country for other

things, and improving in other

0:11:580:12:02

areas, in this case giving people

more privacy, but also allowing

0:12:020:12:06

people to use this amazing new

technology. You claim you won the

0:12:060:12:10

argument yesterday and certainly it

went through. But these sorts of

0:12:100:12:14

skirmishes, and we discussed it

yesterday, are nothing compared to

0:12:140:12:17

what we are going to see when it

comes to something like the EU

0:12:170:12:21

withdrawal bill, which of course a

mayiour.

The major Brexit bill. How

0:12:210:12:27

worried are you by the numbers of

Conservatives rebels who'll team up

0:12:270:12:30

with the opposition parties like

Labour, and in this case table 347

0:12:300:12:34

amendments between them?

Well it is

normal there are a lot of amendments

0:12:340:12:37

on bills.

Not 347.

Clearly a lot

here. Clearly there will be a

0:12:370:12:41

debate. There has already been an

enormous debate about it. But I'm

0:12:410:12:46

pretty confident of getting it

through. The reason is this - the

0:12:460:12:56

fundamental feeling of Parliament is

that the result of the referendum

0:12:560:12:59

needs to be respected. So people, no

matter how they Veet voted more than

0:12:590:13:03

a year ago in the referendum believe

we have to deliver.

You accept

0:13:030:13:06

different interpretations of that.

So I say again, how are you worried

0:13:060:13:10

by the perhaps 15 to 25 Conservative

rebels who are saying they are

0:13:100:13:13

prepared it team up with the

opposition parties to defeat you?

I

0:13:130:13:18

think we've got the - the Government

I think has won't argument on the

0:13:180:13:22

core principle, which is that you

have to respect the result of the

0:13:220:13:25

referendum no matter how people

voted.

Why are there 347 amendments?

0:13:250:13:30

You have not won any argument when

it comes to the EU withdrawal bill.

0:13:300:13:35

How will you deal with that?

Amendment by amendment:

Is that why

0:13:350:13:40

it is delayed?

No they get groups.

You deal with groups. Some will be

0:13:400:13:44

highly technical. Some will be show

boating and others will be serious

0:13:440:13:48

amendments on the issues. This is

the process of Parliament. Afterall,

0:13:480:13:51

one of the great things about having

a parliamentary system like this is

0:13:510:13:58

that everybody in Parliament can put

their amendments down and then we go

0:13:580:14:01

through them...

So it is legitimate

parliamentary scrutiny, in your

0:14:010:14:05

mind, by your colleagues, here, or

do you think this is a large group

0:14:050:14:10

of pro-Remain MPs who are still not

reconciled to Brexit happening and

0:14:100:14:14

are trying to thwart it?

As it

happens, I think it is questions on

0:14:140:14:19

the detachls I think the fact that

we got the timetable through for

0:14:190:14:22

this Bill, in September. There was a

vote in September, which means that

0:14:220:14:26

this will be done in an organised

way in Parliament, not all through

0:14:260:14:30

the night sittings, as there have

been on bills in the past. That

0:14:300:14:34

shows that people are serious about,

yes, having the parliamentary debate

0:14:340:14:38

and enough parliamentary time to

have the discussions, but also,

0:14:380:14:41

coming to a reasonable conclusion.

Is it also legitimate then,

0:14:410:14:46

parliamentary screw the no I have

your colleague, Dominic Grieve to

0:14:460:14:49

table an amendment to insist a

no-deal scenario cannot happen and

0:14:490:14:53

this should be written into the bill

s that legitimate?

I don't happen to

0:14:530:14:57

agree with him on that but MPs can

put down their amendments on all

0:14:570:15:00

sorts of things. Ultimately we will

have a lot of debate and then the

0:15:000:15:04

bill will go through and then we'll

leave and that will help us to leave

0:15:040:15:08

in the most orderly pay possible.

Ultimately, you know, people - the

0:15:080:15:12

people on that side of the argument

don't want a cliff edge, any more

0:15:120:15:17

than I do. And legislation is

critical to ensure we have an

0:15:170:15:22

orderly departure.

Is it reasonable

of the Bank of England, who today

0:15:220:15:25

have said up to 75,000 jobs could be

lost in financial service, following

0:15:250:15:30

Britain's departure from the

European Union?

0:15:300:15:34

The bank is independent and they can

say what they think.

Do you think it

0:15:340:15:39

is likely to happen?

I think we will

get a good deal so it is

0:15:390:15:43

hypothetical but also Britain and

the City of London will succeed

0:15:430:15:48

after Brexit. We have seen that

after the referendum decision, huge

0:15:480:15:53

amount of investment decisions into

the UK and more than I expected at

0:15:530:15:56

the time.

So the Bank of England is

wrong?

I think Britain will be

0:15:560:16:02

hugely successful.

You don't think

75,000 jobs could be lost, they

0:16:020:16:08

could expect job losses even with a

trading deal so are they just

0:16:080:16:12

scaremongering?

I used to be an

economic forecaster and one thing

0:16:120:16:16

I've learned to do is never make

economic forecast! The last couple

0:16:160:16:21

of years have strengthened that

position but I will say that Britain

0:16:210:16:24

is an incredibly strong country and

we have had some excellent

0:16:240:16:28

investment into the UK since the

referendum and we will make a

0:16:280:16:31

success of it and I am confident we

can be an incredibly successful

0:16:310:16:37

country both in financial services

and more broadly, in the tech area

0:16:370:16:41

that I look after we have had

investment from almost all the major

0:16:410:16:45

companies.

And you can do that even

if the UK loses its special

0:16:450:16:50

passporting right, banks can grow

and the city will thrive?

I'm

0:16:500:16:53

confident we will get a good deal.

And when we look at your area, there

0:16:530:16:59

are assessment being done at the

moment, have you seen the assessment

0:16:590:17:03

for the digital area post Brexit?

There is not a specific one around

0:17:030:17:09

digital, it obviously affects huge

swathes of the economy.

Had you seen

0:17:090:17:13

any of the assessment?

I have seen

some as advice to ministers and we

0:17:130:17:18

get advice all the time and that is

an important part of the

0:17:180:17:22

decision-making process that civil

servants can give me advice and know

0:17:220:17:25

that it will remain private. If you

don't have that private space, you

0:17:250:17:30

can't have a genuine discussion

between civil servants and

0:17:300:17:33

ministers.

If that you are basing

your positive outlook on, that

0:17:330:17:38

government assessment?

On all sorts

of things, on internal assessments,

0:17:380:17:42

on the decisions that have been made

by international investors

0:17:420:17:49

everywhere from Apple, Google,

Facebook, Amazon, IBM, they are all

0:17:490:17:53

made significant and overall

multi-billion dollar investment

0:17:530:17:58

decisions since the referendum.

You

will not publish those assessments

0:17:580:18:01

but if they are that positive why

wouldn't you?

Because I am not going

0:18:010:18:06

to get into publishing advice that

is given to me as a minister. I

0:18:060:18:09

would incredibly closely with civil

service.

What about transparency?

0:18:090:18:15

They are some of the most brilliant

minds in the country and they give

0:18:150:18:18

me a full and frank advice and so

they should. But if they thought

0:18:180:18:23

their advice might in future be

published, they would be tempered

0:18:230:18:27

and how they would write it down. I

need people advising me to be

0:18:270:18:31

completely frank and open with me

knowing that they can be frank in

0:18:310:18:37

advice to ministers because it will

be respected and kept private and

0:18:370:18:43

not accidentally part of the wider

debate.

Since Matt Hancock has asked

0:18:430:18:49

for your agreement in terms of the

advice that civil servants get, do

0:18:490:18:52

you think it is what we do not see

these important assessment about how

0:18:520:18:57

British industry and various

departments will look in their

0:18:570:19:01

analysis post Brexit?

I think it is

absolutely, I was listening to the

0:19:010:19:06

conversation and thinking that part

of the problem with this is that the

0:19:060:19:08

country does not know who to believe

and whether we are coming or going

0:19:080:19:12

and most of us are worried about

housing, whether the kids can pay

0:19:120:19:17

their rent, if jobs will go out of

the window because of Brexit or if

0:19:170:19:26

more jobs will arise because of it.

It is hard to see what the truth is

0:19:260:19:29

behind that and there must be true

in some of it. Some will be right

0:19:290:19:32

and some wrong. I personally think

it would be a very good idea if the

0:19:320:19:36

government and others gave more

information in a much more

0:19:360:19:40

transparent way about how to go

forward, whether that is private

0:19:400:19:44

ministerial advice... Sometimes you

think, you can you trust. The

0:19:440:19:49

Institute for Fiscal Studies, the

government, Keir Starmer? It is hard

0:19:490:19:52

to get to the bottom of it and

sometimes there is a role for

0:19:520:19:56

independent advice to say that these

are the different stages we can take

0:19:560:20:00

going through Brexit. What I do know

is that I think the bickering has to

0:20:000:20:04

stop, which is what it feels like,

it feels like a constant,

0:20:040:20:11

pro-Brexit, anti-Brexit, Remain, we

are tired with all of that but we

0:20:110:20:15

want to help the negotiators through

something that does not make people

0:20:150:20:19

poorer and worse off. Those are the

people who might be worst affected.

0:20:190:20:23

Louise Casey thinks you should

public those assessments.

That's not

0:20:230:20:27

quite what she said.

You could

publish more information to help

0:20:270:20:31

make the argument otherwise why

should we believe you?

A good

0:20:310:20:35

example of this, over the summer we

published over a dozen papers on

0:20:350:20:39

where we wanted to get to in various

different areas. And we did one in

0:20:390:20:43

data protection.

I have read a few.

We do publish...

Those were not

0:20:430:20:51

assessments, that was a wish list.

It is part of the negotiating

0:20:510:20:57

strategy.

That is not the same as an

assessment of how Britain would look

0:20:570:21:00

post Brexit. Would that help people

be convinced that it would be a

0:21:000:21:05

positive thing?

I have said it I

think it will be. I think asking

0:21:050:21:10

officials to write advice to a

minister in private and

0:21:100:21:14

after-the-fact demanding it is

published is unfair on officials and

0:21:140:21:18

crucially makes decision-making

harder.

Was it wrong of Michel

0:21:180:21:23

Barnier to meet Nick Clegg, Ken

Clarke and Lauda Denis Grachev he

0:21:230:21:28

can meet who he likes but what he

needs to know but what he needs to

0:21:280:21:32

know is that is not the centre of

gravity in British politics -- Lord

0:21:320:21:36

Adonis.

The British people made a

decision and we need to get the best

0:21:360:21:42

possible deal.

Would he have more

clarity meeting them than David

0:21:420:21:48

Davis?

No, David Davis is doing an

excellent job.

Do you think Ken

0:21:480:21:52

Clarke should have done that at a

sitting Conservative MP?

It is

0:21:520:21:57

perfectly reasonable for Michel

Barnier or whoever to meet who they

0:21:570:21:59

want to come I'm in favour of

talking to people that you agree

0:21:590:22:02

with and disagree with but the

crucial thing is for the negotiators

0:22:020:22:07

on the other side to know that that

does not represent the core of

0:22:070:22:13

British politics and what we

actually want to do is get on and

0:22:130:22:16

get a good deal that is good for us

and good for the EU and make a

0:22:160:22:20

success of it.

0:22:200:22:22

Stay with us for a moment, Matt,

because the Government has announced

0:22:220:22:25

a review of regulations on gambling.

0:22:250:22:26

A 12-week consultation will cover

online gamblers, the protections

0:22:260:22:29

of minors and advertising.

0:22:290:22:30

But most of the attention this

morning has focussed on the 34,000

0:22:300:22:34

fixed odds betting machines,

on which a punter can lose up

0:22:340:22:37

to £100 every 20 seconds.

0:22:370:22:40

A Church of England bishop today

called on the maximum

0:22:400:22:43

stake to be capped at £2.

0:22:430:22:51

Do you agree that it should be

capped?

I don't know. I think

0:22:510:22:57

introducing any form of regulation

that deals with addiction, when that

0:22:570:23:03

addiction is literally pouring money

out of a family and into the

0:23:030:23:05

property at somebody else, that can

only be a good thing. One thing I

0:23:050:23:08

did think about listening to some of

the coverage of this, was if anybody

0:23:080:23:15

had asked the addicts what they

think the amount should be set at,

0:23:150:23:17

rather than those who are not

addicts having views on what happens

0:23:170:23:21

to poor people.

Should it be set at

£2?

I think we want to hear the

0:23:210:23:28

evidence, that is why we published

the consultation.

If you think that

0:23:280:23:34

£100 is particularly bad for people

who are addicted to that sort of

0:23:340:23:38

gambling £50 did not going to make

that much difference.

We want to

0:23:380:23:42

have a debate on that and this paper

has sparked that off. I agree with

0:23:420:23:46

Louise that we need to have all of

the views of the people affected by

0:23:460:23:50

this right across the board. We have

a 12 week consultation and we

0:23:500:23:56

purposely ensured it is broad so we

can get the views of people on what

0:23:560:23:59

to do.

I do think it should be

incredibly low, I would not rule out

0:23:590:24:03

£2, because the type of gambling

this is dealing with it so fast and

0:24:030:24:09

repetitive. £50 would be a disaster

because it is such a lot of money to

0:24:090:24:14

people in this type of position.

Again and again, I welcome us doing

0:24:140:24:20

something about this and the Church

of England is right to set it in

0:24:200:24:26

could be low, because this is all

about something that has happened

0:24:260:24:28

within three years and it should

never have gone as wild in terms of

0:24:280:24:35

licensing around betting but we are

where we are and it is trying to now

0:24:350:24:39

get the genie back into the bottle

which will take radical change.

0:24:390:24:44

Ministers should be brave at the end

of this consultation about being

0:24:440:24:48

very serious with dealing with the

human beings on the receiving end of

0:24:480:24:53

that type of marketing.

Thank you.

0:24:530:24:55

Now, discussions are going

between Brussels and London

0:24:550:24:57

about when the next round of Brexit

negotiations will take place.

0:24:570:25:01

The aim is for a deal to move

onto the next stage of the talks

0:25:010:25:04

to be in place before EU

leaders meet in December.

0:25:040:25:12

But the EU's chief negotiator,

Michel Barnier, was busy yesterday,

0:25:120:25:15

when he met three leading

Remain campaigners.

0:25:150:25:18

Hello again.

0:25:190:25:21

Gentlemen, what brings

you here today?

0:25:210:25:24

We're going to see Michel

Barnier and a few other

0:25:240:25:26

people in the European Commission.

0:25:260:25:27

Are you here to stop Brexit?

0:25:270:25:29

LAUGHS

0:25:290:25:30

If only it were that easy.

0:25:300:25:31

No, no...

0:25:310:25:32

We're here to talk cricket.

0:25:320:25:34

We're here just to get a better

understanding of what's going on.

0:25:340:25:37

Ken, are you allowed to be here,

this isn't Government policy,

0:25:370:25:39

is it?

0:25:390:25:41

Government policy,

not visiting Brussels?

0:25:410:25:43

What will you be asking Mr Barnier?

0:25:430:25:47

I'm joined now by a Finnish deputy

minister, Samuli Virtanen.

0:25:540:25:59

I hope I pronounced your name

correctly. The three rebels, Nick

0:25:590:26:07

Clegg, Ken Clarke and Lord Adonis,

do you think Michel Barnier should

0:26:070:26:10

have been meeting them?

It is up to

Michel Barnier who he wants to meet.

0:26:100:26:18

He is a nice man and I have seen him

several times and he is able to beat

0:26:180:26:23

anybody.

Do you think it will help

the negotiations?

That is another

0:26:230:26:29

thing. -- he is able to meet

anybody. I think it is perhaps not

0:26:290:26:35

ideal at this point of the

negotiations.

You have previously

0:26:350:26:42

alluded to divisions within the UK

Cabinet as one of the main

0:26:420:26:45

problems...

Not the Cabinet.

In the

government and the EU knows that

0:26:450:26:51

Theresa May has a slim majority so

is the EU actively trying to

0:26:510:26:54

undermine Theresa May in these

negotiations in your mind?

Let me be

0:26:540:26:59

clear what I said in Luxembourg and

elsewhere, that at the moment it

0:26:590:27:03

seems that the EU 27 is more

unanimous. I did not refer to the UK

0:27:030:27:09

Government. The ministers I have met

all got the same message, what I

0:27:090:27:18

have heard that the speech Theresa

May gave in Florence, it was

0:27:180:27:24

analysed and gone through by the

inside Cabinet.

Although you have

0:27:240:27:28

said it is difficult to see what

Britain wants from these

0:27:280:27:31

negotiations.

That's true, because

we basically know what the

0:27:310:27:37

government wants come they want to

have a good deal.

Everybody wants a

0:27:370:27:41

good deal.

We also want that. But

I'm here on a more or less

0:27:410:27:48

fact-finding mission for two days,

trying to understand what Britain as

0:27:480:27:55

a country wants. When you read the

British newspapers, the media,

0:27:550:28:01

following the discussions in the

Parliament here in Westminster, you

0:28:010:28:07

get an idea that, OK, the majority

of the British people want to leave

0:28:070:28:14

the EU, but it seems that there are

some saying that perhaps we should

0:28:140:28:20

cancel the whole thing.

Does that

mean that if there were to be an

0:28:200:28:26

increase in the number of meetings

between Michel Barnier and the UK,

0:28:260:28:31

that it might help the negotiations?

Do you think the EU has been quite

0:28:310:28:36

inflexible in terms of broadening

the remit so that trade talks could

0:28:360:28:40

be discussed as part of the divorce

settlement, and that they should

0:28:400:28:44

meet with more frequency?

Basically

I think that when we get around the

0:28:440:28:51

negotiating table we should have two

equal partners. When Michel Barnier

0:28:510:28:59

gets there, he knows he has the

back-up of 27 countries, but it is

0:28:590:29:05

quite difficult for the UK

Government, because we get one

0:29:050:29:09

message from the government and then

there are messages coming from

0:29:090:29:14

London saying that, actually, we

could do it in another way. I have

0:29:140:29:20

met people in Helsinki and Brussels

and Luxembourg who have said to me,

0:29:200:29:24

you know, perhaps they will cancel

the Brexit.

Do you believe that is a

0:29:240:29:32

possible scenario?

No. I believe

that Brexit is going to happen.

Is

0:29:320:29:38

it not just about the money from

your side? Britain is a net

0:29:380:29:46

contributor...

Like Finland.

And

when they leave there will be a hole

0:29:460:29:51

in the budget and Emmanuel Macron

made it clear that Britain is only

0:29:510:29:55

halfway there so it comes down to

euros and pounds four U?

Money is

0:29:550:30:00

one of the biggest issues is not the

biggest, but we have a long way

0:30:000:30:05

ahead of us still to find the

solution and agreement which works

0:30:050:30:11

for everybody.

But why should

Britain pay more than what it those

0:30:110:30:17

in the minds of the EU into in the

budget until 2020? There is no legal

0:30:170:30:24

obligation on Britain.

No, rights

and opposition must be balanced, I

0:30:240:30:28

think that is what the EU has said.

But 20 billion euros is what has

0:30:280:30:33

been intimated by Britain, is that

not enough?

That's something that

0:30:330:30:38

belongs to the negotiating table.

But you would like to see more money

0:30:380:30:42

on the table?

I want to see a deal

which is fair for everybody.

Which

0:30:420:30:47

would be? In terms of Euros?

I'm not

going to name any summer.

Are you

0:30:470:30:53

confident there will be a deal by

March 2019?

-- any amount. I

0:30:530:30:59

certainly hope so, time is ticking

and we don't have time to waste at

0:30:590:31:03

this point but I definitely hope we

will find a good deal and that is

0:31:030:31:06

also partly why I'm here, because

Finland, we are part of the 27 of

0:31:060:31:13

course, but we also, one of our best

allies in the world and in Europe

0:31:130:31:20

and you are one of our biggest

trading partners and very important

0:31:200:31:25

to European security and defence

policy. We want to have that

0:31:250:31:29

excellent relationship with you, and

the British people decide themselves

0:31:290:31:36

which international organisation

they want to belong to or not, that

0:31:360:31:39

is up to you. We just hope that we

can intensify and strengthen the

0:31:390:31:46

relationship.

0:31:460:31:55

Now, there are more stories

on the front pages of the newspapers

0:31:550:32:00

today about inappropriate behaviour

by MPs at Westminster.

0:32:000:32:03

They have come to light in the wake

of the Harvey Weinstein

0:32:030:32:09

scandal in Hollywood.

0:32:090:32:11

No substantiated allegations

of that seriousness have

0:32:110:32:13

yet to emerge here,

but yesterday the Leader

0:32:130:32:15

of the House, Andrea Leadsom,

with Theresa May by her side,

0:32:150:32:18

sought to show that the Government

was on the front foot

0:32:180:32:20

in dealing with the issue.

0:32:200:32:22

As Members of Parliament,

our constituents will be rightly

0:32:220:32:24

appalled at the thought that some

representatives in Parliament may

0:32:240:32:28

have acted in an entirely

inappropriate way towards others.

0:32:280:32:32

These reports risk bringing

all of our offices into disrepute.

0:32:320:32:39

I know this is an issue of great

concern to you, Mr Speaker,

0:32:390:32:42

and I know that you will do

everything you can

0:32:420:32:44

to tackle this issue.

0:32:440:32:45

And I know that members

from all parties will want to work

0:32:450:32:49

alongside you to investigate every

claim, provide the right support

0:32:490:32:51

in the future, and make sure this

never happens again.

0:32:510:32:53

Mr Speaker, it is a right,

not a privilege, to work in a safe

0:32:530:32:57

and respectful environment.

0:32:570:32:59

These plans will ensure

that Parliament takes

0:32:590:33:01

a zero tolerance approach.

0:33:010:33:06

Andrea Leadsom updating

the Commons yesterday.

0:33:060:33:09

And this morning The Sun's front

page led on Defence Secretary

0:33:090:33:12

Michael Fallon's confession

that he repeatedly touched a female

0:33:120:33:18

journalist's knee during a radio

interview 15 years ago.

0:33:180:33:20

But Julia Hartley-Brewer,

the journalist in question,

0:33:200:33:24

insisted she was not a victim

and responded to the story

0:33:240:33:27

this morning by tweeting

a picture of her knees.

0:33:270:33:29

She said, "Full medical check up

this morning and, yes,

0:33:290:33:31

both of my knees are still intact.

0:33:310:33:33

Get a grip people."

0:33:330:33:34

I'm joined now by former MP

and whip, Rob Wilson.

0:33:340:33:43

What did you make of the story of

Julia Hartley-Brewer and the Defence

0:33:430:33:47

Secretary, Michael Fallon?

The first

thing to say this is no bigger or

0:33:470:33:51

smaller problem than in other walks

of life. There are plenty of

0:33:510:33:55

companies, probably organisations

including the BBC where you have had

0:33:550:33:57

men putting their hand on a woman's

knee. Now the question in this case

0:33:570:34:02

is - was it inappropriate or in the?

Now clearly Michael Fallon has said

0:34:020:34:07

it was inappropriate and has

apologised. It did happen a long

0:34:070:34:11

time ago, although that's no excuse

and obviously Julia Hartley-Brewer

0:34:110:34:15

has made her feelings clearer on the

case.

Should it be taken any

0:34:150:34:19

further?

I don't think in this case,

neither of the participants in that

0:34:190:34:23

want it to be taken further.

What is

the bedge mark of behaviour in your

0:34:230:34:28

mind that should trigger some sort

of sanction or an MP being sacked? .

0:34:280:34:31

It is not really in my mind that

counts. It is in the mind of the

0:34:310:34:35

people involved in the incident.

Now

you know...

But someone has to make

0:34:350:34:39

a judgment.

There are judgments in

employment law about how people

0:34:390:34:43

should be treated. That's the bemplg

mark we should try and use. If you

0:34:430:34:47

have made laws, as Members of

Parliament, you should be trying to

0:34:470:34:50

keep those laws and uphold them and

that means also in situation whereas

0:34:500:34:53

you are dealing with your own staff,

but whereas when you are dealing

0:34:530:34:56

with other people's staff. There are

certain standards in public life

0:34:560:35:00

that are set out quite clearly.

Right, but who do you go to at the

0:35:000:35:05

moment within the Palace of

Westminster? If MPs are

0:35:050:35:08

self-employed and also then

employers, you don't go to the MP

0:35:080:35:13

who allegedly is harassing you, and

say - you are harassing me, you want

0:35:130:35:17

to go somewhere else, you can't. Do

you go to the whip? . This is one of

0:35:170:35:20

the big problems that there is in

Westminster, and I acknowledge this.

0:35:200:35:25

I think anybody with a brain would

acknowledge this. The whole human

0:35:250:35:29

resources system, the way it is set

up in Westminster is wrong. It

0:35:290:35:33

should not be that MPs are employing

their own staff and responsible in

0:35:330:35:37

that way for their staff. There

should be a proper, human resources

0:35:370:35:43

department that has the teeth of any

organisation whether it is the BBC,

0:35:430:35:46

the NHS or any other organisation

has, to investigate and if

0:35:460:35:52

appropriate, to bring the police

into the matter as well.

Should the

0:35:520:35:57

trade minister, Mark Garnier, who

asked his secretary at the time to

0:35:570:36:01

buy sex toys and then used a

demeaning phrase to describe her,

0:36:010:36:06

should he be sacked while he is

investigated?

Well, that's difficult

0:36:060:36:11

one because there are obviously

contrasting interpretations of that

0:36:110:36:13

story. I have seen both sides of the

argument. He says he hasn't done the

0:36:130:36:22

same things that the ex-secretary

has accused him of. So, it would

0:36:220:36:26

need a proper investigation first, I

think.

It was about context, I think

0:36:260:36:31

rather than the comments weren't

made.

If I had been Mark Garnier, I

0:36:310:36:34

certainly would not have asked a PA

to go and buy a sex toy and I

0:36:340:36:39

certainly wouldn't have called her

by the name he used.

There is

0:36:390:36:43

context to what happened there, but

do you think while he is

0:36:430:36:47

investigating, he should be

suspended, or at least have the whip

0:36:470:36:50

taken away?

Well, as far as I

understand he has admitted to using

0:36:500:36:57

the expression he used and admitted

to asking his secretary,

0:36:570:37:00

historically, to go out and buy sex

toys. My view is if he had any

0:37:000:37:05

common sense whatsoever, he would've

stood down until whatever

0:37:050:37:07

investigation goes forward but this

is all part of - I disagree with

0:37:070:37:12

you, the difference between

companies and other organisations is

0:37:120:37:19

they don't stand up in Parliament

representing our democracy, they are

0:37:190:37:23

not public servants, you know you

are not above the Nolan principles,

0:37:230:37:26

if you see what I mean and some of

this behaviour is above and not

0:37:260:37:30

right. The thing missing in all of

this, yesterday the Government,

0:37:300:37:34

rightly, good, has said - we are

going to put better procedures in

0:37:340:37:41

place, we want to review code of

conduct, what Harriet Harman said

0:37:410:37:44

and the Speaker said was fantastic

but the onus remains upon the

0:37:440:37:48

victims and women to have a bet

procedure. I think that is wrong.

0:37:480:37:52

Nobody is saying - what is going on

with our parliamentarians that this

0:37:520:37:56

is an institution this thinks n2017,

this is still acceptable, with MPs

0:37:560:38:01

yesterday saying - poor us we are

now a witchhunt. They've got to get

0:38:010:38:05

a grip.

Do you think it is a witch

hunt?

No, I don't think it is. There

0:38:050:38:11

are deleerly MPs that are behaving

very inappropriately and those

0:38:110:38:15

individuals need to be held to

account, taken to task, and if it

0:38:150:38:20

means they lose their ministerial

job, so be it.

Do you know - the

0:38:200:38:24

allegations have been made, you are

a former whip, did you have

0:38:240:38:29

information on individual MPs

relating to any sexual misconduct.

0:38:290:38:32

Clearly there is a flow of

information all the time into the

0:38:320:38:35

whip's off. Some of it will be to do

with things outside of sexual nature

0:38:350:38:39

and some of it will be to do with

sexual harassment and other things.

0:38:390:38:43

Now it is up to the Chief Whip then

to take the action that he deems

0:38:430:38:48

appropriate but it is not really -

the whip's system is not fit for

0:38:480:38:53

purpose in terms of dealing with

employee matters.

Except you have

0:38:530:38:57

had, then, information that could be

used.

If it's appropriate to report

0:38:570:39:02

that information to the police, I'm

sure the Chief Whip would do that.

0:39:020:39:05

Do you believe there is aaway list

of of names of MPs and ministers who

0:39:050:39:10

are of concern?

Yes.

Right. Final

word to you, Louise, before I move

0:39:100:39:16

on

Can I just say before I say that,

this is not something that is to do

0:39:160:39:21

with the Conservative Party or

Conservative MPs, this is across all

0:39:210:39:25

political parties and all aspects of

business in this country.

Well very

0:39:250:39:29

briefly. The key difference is - you

are parliamentarians that people go

0:39:290:39:33

out and vote for and you govern our

country, so your behaviours, as a

0:39:330:39:38

set of individuals, should be above

reproach and it has not been beyond

0:39:380:39:42

reproach.

I agree with that.

Thank

you for coming in. To make it clear,

0:39:420:39:46

since we are in the business of

accuracy, the knee-touching incident

0:39:460:39:52

didn't take place during a radio

interview, it was during a dinner.

0:39:520:39:54

Just for clarity.

0:39:540:39:58

Now, at the end of last year

Louise Casey produced a report

0:39:580:40:01

following her comprehensive review

of social integration in the UK.

0:40:010:40:03

She found, perhaps unsurprisingly,

that the gaps between different

0:40:030:40:05

ethnic and social groups

are still large and that

0:40:050:40:07

in some places ethnic

segregation is on the rise.

0:40:070:40:10

While women from certain communities

are suffering huge inequalities.

0:40:100:40:12

As part of her review she made

a number of recommendations,

0:40:120:40:14

and we'll be talking

to her about those in a moment,

0:40:140:40:17

but fist Elizabeth Glinka has been

to Birmingham to find out more.

0:40:170:40:24

September, 1985, in the Handsworth

area of Birmingham. Record levels of

0:40:240:40:31

unemployment and tensions between

disenfranchised black youths and

0:40:310:40:35

recently arrived Asian immigrants

spilled over into rioting. The

0:40:350:40:38

police force moves in with a massive

show of force. Two men burnt to

0:40:380:40:42

death in their shops. Many more

people are injured. The city is

0:40:420:40:46

divided.

White people keep in their

area and we keep in ours. We don't

0:40:460:40:51

go in their territory and they don't

normally come in our territory.

0:40:510:40:56

That's the way it works out really.

30 years on and this is the Soho

0:40:560:41:01

Road. It is a multicultural

community here with people of all

0:41:010:41:09

backgrounds living side by side. But

it is said this the the exception

0:41:090:41:12

and not the rule and that

Birmingham, like many towns and

0:41:120:41:16

cities is more divided. Desmond is a

community activist. He says despite

0:41:160:41:20

huge efforts over the last 30 years,

he recognises many of the findings

0:41:200:41:24

of the review. His concern is that

not enough action is being taken to

0:41:240:41:29

change things

It's very sad. I'm one

of the people that witnessed what

0:41:290:41:34

happened in 1985. In Handsworth,

particularly, you will see, you

0:41:340:41:38

know, when events are going on, etc,

everyone is there from all different

0:41:380:41:46

backgrounds but it is not reflected

acombroms. In terms of cohesion, you

0:41:460:41:49

have had a lot of reports done but

they have been put on a shelf and

0:41:490:41:57

never acted upon.

Across the UK,

people live in pockets of is he

0:41:570:42:06

regachlingts Blackburn, burn lane

Bradford all have wards where more

0:42:060:42:08

than three-quarters of the

population are of Muslim origin. It

0:42:080:42:12

means that some children are

attending schools with little

0:42:120:42:15

opportunity of meeting pew you ils

from different backgrounds. Just a

0:42:150:42:20

few miles south of Handsworth is one

of five wards of the vast majority

0:42:200:42:26

of Pakistani Muslims. For those

working to prevent segregation, it

0:42:260:42:32

is not hard to understand.

People

generally flock together, where you

0:42:320:42:35

try to find a sense of belonging and

identity and similarity. So from

0:42:350:42:41

then, I think what has happened is

that people have continued, and

0:42:410:42:48

rather than moving out, they are in

the pockets.

Are there particular

0:42:480:42:52

barriers for women?

Many feel - this

is what the women have said to me,

0:42:520:42:55

they feel it is not worth the

evident. It is not worth the battle

0:42:550:43:00

because we end up getting abused. We

are not supported. There is not

0:43:000:43:04

enough speaking out for us and we're

just beaten down. So they step back,

0:43:040:43:09

retreat and just carry on as they

have done over the years.

With

0:43:090:43:16

separation deeply engrained in some

migrant communities, for both social

0:43:160:43:25

and economic reasons, there is a

change when it comes to Bert

0:43:250:43:29

integrating our towns and cities. --

better.

0:43:290:43:31

And I'm joined now by Dr Amra Bone,

who the first female

0:43:310:43:34

Sharia Council judge in the UK.

0:43:340:43:36

Welcome to the Daily Politics. The

last time Louise you were on the

0:43:360:43:41

programme you said is he regracing

and exclusion were at worrying

0:43:410:43:46

levels -- segregation. And you

called for the government to work on

0:43:460:43:51

this. Your report called on Muslim

communities more than other

0:43:510:43:55

communities. Is that fair?

Yes, the

levels of highest unemployment for

0:43:550:44:00

women and men, in terms of the types

of jobs those communities have

0:44:000:44:03

access to are very different. The

issue about economic activity in

0:44:030:44:08

women, particularly in Pakistani

heritage and Bangladeshi heritage

0:44:080:44:12

communities, is significantly

different to other either religious

0:44:120:44:16

or ethnic minorities, and, for

example, English not being language

0:44:160:44:23

spoken in those communities is

greater T doesn't mean to say there

0:44:230:44:26

aren't issue in the other

communities and the 200-page report

0:44:260:44:29

makes that very, very clear but it

would be undeniable to say that we

0:44:290:44:33

have to give more help and reach

greater into those communities than

0:44:330:44:36

others.

Do you agree with that

description of Muslim communities?

0:44:360:44:40

Muslim communities from my

experience are not very happy at

0:44:400:44:44

being singled out because there is a

number of factors here. It is not

0:44:440:44:48

just because they happen to be

Muslims. I remember growing up in an

0:44:480:44:53

area where there was white flight

and as a Muslim, you didn't chose to

0:44:530:45:01

be separated but it happened. Now

there is a change of pace and Muslim

0:45:010:45:05

families generally have more

children than others and I think we

0:45:050:45:07

have to understand the demographic

changes, what is going on, rather

0:45:070:45:11

than just because they happen to be

Muslims. And poverty is another link

0:45:110:45:19

why Muslims or people of particular

ethnicity tend to be in those areas

0:45:190:45:23

and I personally know that a huge

number of people have moved out into

0:45:230:45:27

suburban areas. There are plenty of

lawyers, doctors and engineering and

0:45:270:45:33

council r os that are working

themselves to support their own

0:45:330:45:35

children.

0:45:350:45:40

To go back to what you were saying,

is it an accurate picture of what is

0:45:400:45:44

happening because they are Muslims?

It is not necessarily because of

0:45:440:45:48

religion and, it could be because of

ethnicity and immigration patterns

0:45:480:45:52

and as you said, the fastest-growing

religious minority because of birth

0:45:520:45:57

rate is within that community. But

the fact is, where I think we would

0:45:570:46:02

agree, is that those communities are

poorer on the whole, living in poor

0:46:020:46:06

housing with less access to jobs and

not doing as well as other groups in

0:46:060:46:11

terms of universities. There are

plenty of examples and I met huge

0:46:110:46:15

numbers of people who have made it

through the system but if we were

0:46:150:46:18

talking about black young men for

example, and we do regularly, we

0:46:180:46:21

know that at the age of 11, black

young boys start trailing off in

0:46:210:46:28

school and the unemployment rate is

35% as opposed to their white

0:46:280:46:33

counterparts being at 17% and we

don't have a problem talking about

0:46:330:46:36

it, we don't do enough about it but

we don't have a problem talking

0:46:360:46:39

about it.

So why do you have a

problem with for example discussing

0:46:390:46:45

some Muslim women being denied their

basic rights as British residents?

I

0:46:450:46:49

think if we looked at women largely,

we have recently had a report come

0:46:490:46:54

out in the Guardian about women, 52%

being sexually harassed, groped,

0:46:540:47:03

even raped in the workplace and that

is a huge number and that goes all

0:47:030:47:07

across the board.

Do you think it

does not merit discussion even about

0:47:070:47:12

Muslim women?

I'm not saying that, I

do a lot of work in the community

0:47:120:47:16

where I highlight that God has given

dignity to us as human beings, men

0:47:160:47:23

and women equally, and we need to

respect each other's views and give

0:47:230:47:26

equality. I think what we're doing,

that fear that has been created,

0:47:260:47:35

people are playing into that. We

have a huge number of right-wing

0:47:350:47:42

extremists now, as Tim Farron

pointed out, because of the

0:47:420:47:49

government concentrating on Muslim

extremist they have largely ignored

0:47:490:47:52

the white extremists which is in

fact creating a ground for more

0:47:520:47:58

attacks.

Although the numbers of

course, although you are right,

0:47:580:48:00

there has been an increase in the

numbers of white extremists, the

0:48:000:48:04

numbers are still large larger in

terms of Muslim fundamentalists.

0:48:040:48:10

Your report, with women being held

back in progressive cultural

0:48:100:48:16

practices, what are those practices?

The fact that women are not able to

0:48:160:48:21

get access to being able to speak

English for example. I did not have

0:48:210:48:24

to work very hard in places like

Birmingham to find countless women

0:48:240:48:28

who, if they were not allowed out of

their home, they would only be

0:48:280:48:32

allowed out to go to various classes

that could not be around English or

0:48:320:48:37

indeed emancipation. I also have a

problem with some Sharia councils

0:48:370:48:42

and courts because they are

creating, I know that is a tough

0:48:420:48:45

thing to say to dip in your

position, but they are creating

0:48:450:48:50

alternative legal system that has no

standing in British society and a

0:48:500:48:53

woman thinking she is married when

she is not and does not have the

0:48:530:48:57

same right that I would have. I

think all of those things start to

0:48:570:49:01

subjugate women and to be fair, I

was quite shocked by that in terms

0:49:010:49:04

of those particular communities.

Why

does Sharia law have a place here?

0:49:040:49:13

As human beings everyone has a right

to practice their faith. Since

0:49:130:49:19

Christianity had no divorce, people

could divorce in the civil law but

0:49:190:49:26

Judaism and Islam has always had

this concept so people want to live

0:49:260:49:30

by their faith as well as the law of

the land. As a Muslim I should live

0:49:300:49:35

by the law of the land and I do, but

those who have a religious Marist,

0:49:350:49:41

they have no records to be civil

courts. Sharia councils are

0:49:410:49:46

voluntary, it is up to people if

they want to come -- religious

0:49:460:49:49

marriage. That is why they exist, to

help the women and if we want women

0:49:490:49:56

to be contributing in our society

and want them to be free of any

0:49:560:50:02

problems and issues they are having

within themselves, we need to have

0:50:020:50:04

that, marriage to be resolved and

dissolved and to move on and to be

0:50:040:50:10

full members and integrated in our

society pulls up and yet it seems

0:50:100:50:15

like Muslims cannot win no matter

what, they are castigated, they

0:50:150:50:20

integrate or don't.

I am going to

have to stop, thank you for coming

0:50:200:50:25

in.

0:50:250:50:26

The government is facing questions

over how it will deal

0:50:260:50:28

with the case of a 21-year-old man

from Oxford who has been captured

0:50:280:50:31

as an IS suspect in Syria.

0:50:310:50:35

Jack Letts travelled to IS territory

aged just 18 and was nicknamed

0:50:350:50:38

"Jihadi Jack" by British newspapers.

0:50:380:50:40

But he is now a prisoner of war

there, and could be handed over

0:50:400:50:43

to British authorities.

0:50:430:50:45

In a moment we'll hear

from Jack's local MP,

0:50:450:50:48

but first here's Emma Vardy.

0:50:480:50:54

When Jack Letts, a middle class boy

from Oxford, ran off to live in

0:50:540:51:00

so-called Islamic State he was

suspected of being the first white

0:51:000:51:02

British man to join IS.

0:51:020:51:03

Now, two-and-a-half

years later, he says

0:51:030:51:05

he's travelled all over IS territory

in both Syria and Iraq.

0:51:050:51:12

In May this year, Jack

Letts communicated with

0:51:120:51:15

the BBC, using the enscripted app

Telegram and claimed he'd fallen out

0:51:150:51:17

with IS.

0:51:170:51:19

I first I thought

they were on the truce.

0:51:190:51:23

And then I realised they weren't

upon the truthe, so they

0:51:230:51:25

put me in prison three times,

and threatened to kill me

0:51:250:51:28

and the second and third time

I actually escaped

0:51:280:51:30

from prison.

0:51:300:51:31

After leaving IS territory,

Jack Letts was arrested

0:51:310:51:35

by the Kurdish militia,

the YPG who've been fighting

0:51:350:51:37

against IS in northern

Syria.

0:51:370:51:39

Firstly, we were going to go

to the territories for a bit and

0:51:390:51:44

then continue to Turkey

and as soon as we got

0:51:440:51:47

here, we got arrested

and put in prison.

0:51:470:51:49

After that I was in solitary

confinement until now.

0:51:490:51:51

I still am.

0:51:510:51:52

Jack Letts' parents are due

to stand trial, accused of

0:51:520:51:55

sending their son money for

terrorist purposes, which they deny.

0:51:550:51:57

They've been calling for the British

Government to help get Jack

0:51:570:52:02

back to the UK.

0:52:020:52:03

He's been able to tell us

where he is and who he's

0:52:030:52:06

with, the group he's with and we've

been trying to contact the Foreign

0:52:060:52:09

Office to help us.

0:52:090:52:13

You know, get him out, really.

0:52:130:52:17

Jack's parents have also now

been in contact with

0:52:170:52:19

Amnesty International and say

they fear he's being tortured.

0:52:190:52:25

Well, Amnesty International

are concerned about

0:52:250:52:32

the reports that he has been kept in

poor conditions, he is not allowed

0:52:320:52:35

out to exercise and denied food

and medical treatment.

0:52:350:52:38

Jack Letts, like any prisoner,

should be afforded the

0:52:380:52:41

proper treatment that would meet

international standards.

0:52:410:52:44

Kurdish officials have

strongly refuted any

0:52:440:52:49

allegations of mistreatment, saying

they respect international human

0:52:490:52:51

rights and have treated Jack Letts

in accordance with the Geneva

0:52:510:52:54

Convention.

0:52:540:52:56

In a statement they've said

they are willing to hand over

0:52:560:52:58

prisoners of war to

their original country

0:52:580:53:06

but that for Jack Letts,

a dual British and Canadian citizen,

0:53:060:53:09

there had been no official request

from either the British

0:53:090:53:11

or Canadian governments.

0:53:110:53:14

The Foreign Office won't comment

on Jack Letts' case,

0:53:140:53:16

except to say it cannot

provide any assistance

0:53:160:53:18

to British nationals in Syria.

0:53:180:53:19

Last week, Foreign Office Minister

Rory Stewart said he

0:53:190:53:23

believed any IS suspects left alive

in Syria are dangerous and should be

0:53:230:53:26

killed, but other

ministers disagree.

0:53:260:53:33

They say the preference would be

for IS suspects to be returned

0:53:330:53:35

to the UK to face prosecution.

0:53:350:53:37

The case of Jack Letts

highlights the dilemma

0:53:370:53:39

facing authorities over what to do

about British citizens left in Syria

0:53:390:53:44

now that IS are being defeated,

and it is unclear what evidence

0:53:440:53:49

exists about the true nature

of Jack Letts'

0:53:490:53:51

activities in the war zone.

0:53:510:53:54

We're joined now by Jack Letts'

MP, Anneliese Dodds.

0:53:540:54:00

Should he be returned and face

prosecution here?

That is the big

0:54:000:54:04

question, I don't think it is

whether we should just let people

0:54:040:54:07

come back without any kind of

comeback when they are here, they

0:54:070:54:10

would obviously need to face

prosecution and we would need to

0:54:100:54:13

find out if he was indeed a fighter

as had been claimed. It is not about

0:54:130:54:19

impunity but ultimately jack is one

of a number of different people who

0:54:190:54:22

are either going to languish in jail

without any judicial process which

0:54:220:54:26

is effectively what is happening or

they will have to come back and I

0:54:260:54:30

think the government needs to bite

the bullet on this.

He went of his

0:54:300:54:34

own accord, is it not right that he

should face whatever judicial

0:54:340:54:37

process there is in the region?

I

think there are a number of

0:54:370:54:42

questions about what is going on

within that prison and whether there

0:54:420:54:45

is a normal judicial process that is

becoming but I think the expectation

0:54:450:54:50

of the Kurdish side there is that

the countries of origin will be

0:54:500:54:55

dealing with any prisoners of war,

and they have made quite clear last

0:54:550:55:00

weekend that they were expecting

Britain or Canada to make overtures

0:55:000:55:07

to them about and over and that has

not happened.

Should British

0:55:070:55:13

citizens, he has dual nationality,

but should British citizens have

0:55:130:55:19

their citizenship revoked question

of if we want to go down that road

0:55:190:55:22

it can be debated in Parliament and

the decision in Parliament.

The

0:55:220:55:26

problem with Jack Letts and his

situation is he is in a Catch-22

0:55:260:55:32

according to existing law. This came

up in the clip we heard, his parents

0:55:320:55:36

have been told that he is only going

to be able to be dealt with by the

0:55:360:55:42

British government when he leaves

Syria but he can't leave because he

0:55:420:55:46

is in jail. It is a slightly strange

anomaly.

Apart from Kurdish

0:55:460:55:51

officials are keen for him to be

returned.

But at the moment the

0:55:510:55:55

British state is not willing to

facilitate that.

Should they?

I

0:55:550:55:59

think there is a prima facie argued

for saying that we should...

But the

0:55:590:56:06

problem is that there is not always

enough evidence, or you cannot

0:56:060:56:11

gather enough evidence from a

conflict zone in order to prosecute

0:56:110:56:14

him in the UK. That's a problem.

And

ultimately that is a problem who

0:56:140:56:20

could affect people who have been

accused of different crimes in a

0:56:200:56:23

number of different countries, I

don't think it is unique to this

0:56:230:56:27

situation.

It is unique if you go

out and allegedly fight for IS

0:56:270:56:31

macro. What other comparison is

there?

Let's be clear, I am not

0:56:310:56:37

defending anything he may or may not

have done and I'm not standing in

0:56:370:56:41

judgment over him, I'm his

constituency MP and his parents MP

0:56:410:56:46

and they have raised a legitimate

concern which is that people like

0:56:460:56:51

him are caught in this limbo where

the expectation of the Kurdish side

0:56:510:56:55

is that the home country will be

asking for their citizens but the

0:56:550:56:58

British government has not done

that. I think there are legitimate

0:56:580:57:02

questions to be asked why the

British government has not asked.

0:57:020:57:05

Come back and tell us what happens.

Thank you.

0:57:050:57:08

There's just time before we go

to find out the answer to our quiz.

0:57:080:57:11

The question was, which ghost

is said to haunt Number 10.

0:57:110:57:14

Was it...

0:57:140:57:15

A) The lady in white who wonders

between the state dining rooms.

0:57:150:57:18

B) The ghost of Humphrey,

former Downing Street cat.

0:57:180:57:20

C) The phantom policeman who keeps

watch over British Prime Ministers.

0:57:200:57:23

D) The spirit of

Jean Claude Juncker.

0:57:230:57:24

So, Louise, what's

the correct answer?

0:57:240:57:27

I think it is the first one.

And you

are correct, well done! There are no

0:57:270:57:33

prizes I'm afraid.

0:57:330:57:33

We're joined now by

the story-teller Naomi Paxton.

0:57:330:57:35

All the stories she tells

are entirely true.

0:57:350:57:40

There she is, dressed for the

occasion so tell us some haunted

0:57:400:57:44

tales about Westminster.

There are

very few tales about the actual

0:57:440:57:48

estate but ten Downing St is

particularly ordered, not only with

0:57:480:57:51

the lady in white but there is a

spectral girl in a basement, a man

0:57:510:57:55

with a top hat who walks through the

locked front door and even some

0:57:550:57:59

strange sound on the back rooms. The

other haunted place is the Norman

0:57:590:58:03

Shaw building which is now

administrative officers but used to

0:58:030:58:07

be where Scotland Yard was in the

1880s and the sight of the famous

0:58:070:58:11

black museum where apparently people

have seen a headless woman in a long

0:58:110:58:14

cloak room in the corridors!

Have

you ever seen anything in any of

0:58:140:58:19

these places?

Not personally but I'm

open to all experiences.

But you

0:58:190:58:23

believe it all?

I believe if the --

I believe it if it's fun!

There is

0:58:230:58:31

no doubt that the Palace of

Westminster is a perfect backdrop

0:58:310:58:37

for scary tales as well as number

ten, all of those dark corridors.

0:58:370:58:41

Give us a sense of what it is like

in terms of spookiness.

There are a

0:58:410:58:47

lot of doc corridors with wind

whistling through, the tall

0:58:470:58:51

buildings and the paintings and

statues and the ornate dressings and

0:58:510:58:55

soft furnishings. You can sometimes

turn around and wonder if you have

0:58:550:58:58

heard a footstep behind you to see

the severe face of a Prime Minister

0:58:580:59:04

from the past!

Are you very scared?

No!

Why not?! You have do play

0:59:040:59:13

along! That has ruined it. Thank you

for coming on and happy Halloween.

0:59:130:59:17

That's all for today.

0:59:170:59:18

Thanks to our guests.

0:59:180:59:23

Particularly to Louise Casey even if

she is not scared. Andrew will be

0:59:230:59:27

here tomorrow at 11:30am. By buying.

0:59:270:59:29

Goodbye.

0:59:320:59:32

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS