02/11/2017 Daily Politics


02/11/2017

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to

the Daily Politics.

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Theresa May's Government

is thrown in to crisis

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following the resignation

of the Defence Secretary,

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Michael Fallon.

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I realise that in the past may have

fallen below the high standards that

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we require at the Armed Forces. I

have reflected now on my position in

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government and I am therefore

resigning as Defence Secretary.

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Mr Fallon announced his departure

from Government last night

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as stories about sexual impropriety

and harassment in Westminster

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continue to surface.

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In a surprise move,

Gavin Williamson -

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until now the Government Chief Whip

- is announced as the

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new Defence Secretary.

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It means a mini reshuffle

has been underway.

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We'll have the latest.

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A Parliamentary victory

for Labour as they call

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on the Government to publish

its Brexit impact studies.

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So, will ministers now have to put

them in the public domain?

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And is Boris Johnson's brand

of humour an important

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foreign policy tool,

or a bit of a joke

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on the diplomatic circuit?

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All that in the next hour.

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And with me for the whole programme

today is the Conservative MP

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and Chairman of the Foreign Affairs

Select Committee Tom Tugendhat.

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Welcome to the programme.

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So, in the last couple of hours,

Number Ten announced that

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Gavin Williamson is to become

the new Secretary

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of State for Defence.

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He replaces Sir Michael Fallon

who announced his departure

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from Government last night

as the row over sexual impropriety

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and harassment continues to sweep

through Westminster.

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Well, Laura Kuenssberg -

our political editor -

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Joins us now. You interviewed

Michael Fallon and broke the story

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he resigned.

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Has again is he to he was one of the

main people for Theresa May's and

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footer he had huge experience. He

has been pretty well liked and

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respected in Westminster and Theresa

May did rely on him to some extent.

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The cabinet has been very delicately

balanced, not just in terms of

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Brexit and backwards and forwards

club are also in terms of experience

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and the generations. For her to lose

somebody who was vital in the

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critical balance and someone who has

been around with real presence

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certainly is a loss. In the roller

coasters of politics, he was always

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meant to be Mr reliable.

The safe

pair of hands as he used to be

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called.

He is more used to defending

errant colleagues than himself.

But,

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he is gone. In a big surprise to

some people, Gavin Williamson, also

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in a key role in terms of managing

the minority government, has now

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been promoted into the Cabinet. He

is the new Defence Secretary.

What

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is the reaction? It is pretty mixed.

Gavin Williamson is seen as a smart

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man. He's a very effective operator.

He was the PPS for Cameron and the

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connection between the backbenchers

and the Prime Minister. He knows the

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1922 inside out and the backbenchers

and everyone's secrets he was the

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manager of Theresa May's leadership

campaign. He has been in a very

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important position for a long time.

He is smart and talented and

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ambitious. However, some people I

have spoken to this morning are

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furious. He has never been a

minister before. Some people said it

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was appalling. Theresa May is so

weak that she has allowed Williamson

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to appoint himself. Another minister

has said it is outrageous to put

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into this plum job particularly at

such a crucial time, not only when

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the Government does not have a

majority but when they are in the

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middle of the harassment allegations

mess as other political parties are

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trying to do with some more of their

number are going to have to quit

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their jobs as well.

As a former Army

officer, is he suited to the job of

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Defence Secretary?

I think he is.

Laura made some interesting points

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but I would disagree. This is

evidence that the Prime Minister

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takes defence seriously. She has put

in one of her most trusted aides,

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most trusted advisers, into a

crucial job, as her time when she

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realises there are critical

decisions coming in about the

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defence. The MoD is getting its case

heard at the highest levels of

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government.

What is his experience

in that role? Mr Dunnett has

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questioned the appointment. He backs

it broadly but questions whether he

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is suited to that role. We can just

hear what he had to say.

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I would like to have seen one

of the junior ministers in the

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Ministry of Defence promoted to be

the Secretary of State for Defence,

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because coming from a defence

background they knew the big issues

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which are really critical to defence

at the present moment.

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But all that said,

Theresa May is Prime Minister.

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She's got the job of

leading our country.

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She needs support in the Cabinet

and therefore I fully

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respect her decision

to appoint her former Chief Whip

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as the next Secretary

of State for Defence.

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I wish him well in

that difficult task.

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But as well as supporting his

Prime Minister, he has to make sure

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he really battles hard for defence

and probably argue, as sir Michael

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Fallon has started to do,

from what his increase

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in the defence budget.

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He does not sound convinced. He

knows extremely well the technical

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experts in the MoD wear uniform and

the politicians are there to take

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the political decisions. What he

will be surrounded with, the new

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secretary of defence will be

surrounded with our people like the

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Vice Chief and the CGS and the first

Sea Lord and the chief of the air

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staff who will come up with

absolutely essential advice he will

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listen to and he will be making the

political decisions. He is not a

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technical expert will stop

The

implication what she did it from a

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position of weakness and not

strength.

There are positives and

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negatives with this appointment. He

is a smart and talented guy who is

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very loyal to Theresa May. There

will be people in the Tory Party who

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are very unhappy about. This

decision is not risk free. She could

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have taken a safety first decision

and promoted someone from within the

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of defence and moved someone across.

-- the Ministry of Defence. No

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surprise move might have big

benefits but it is not just a safety

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first move. Remember right now, the

Tories, like other political

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parties, cannot be sure there will

be other people who have to move.

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They have taken a calculation right

now they can do this limited one up,

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one out and a few other things

around the edges with Julia Smith

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and estimate they being promoted at

it is not a safety first decision at

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a time when the Government cannot

know it is out of danger. When it is

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a precision reshuffle. It did not

want to do a wide-ranging reshuffle.

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--

It is a precision reshuffle.

Gavin Williamson has become Defence

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Secretary and Julian Smith has

become Chief Whip. He has been

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promoted and will attend Cabinet.

Estimate they, the newly elected

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Tory MP, re-elected, has become

deputy Chief Whip. Gavin Williamson

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has vacated the role of dealing with

the ongoing sexual harassment and

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Brexit and Universal Credit in a

minority government that is fragile.

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Very tough. Julian Smith has been

Gavin Williamson's Deputy. MPs are

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not going to be an used to having

Julian Smith text in them, knocking

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at the door and saying, come on,

this is what you will do. It is not

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a huge move for him to go up but for

Esther McVey to go back into that

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senior position in terms of party

management is a big jump. Looking at

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the three of them lined up, it is in

part perhaps a bit of an answer to

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some of the problems that many

people in the Tory Party has, partly

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about the younger generation but

also about geographical reach.

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Victory for Yorkshire today and

promotions for Julian Smith and

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Gavin Williamson. That is one of the

other factors, it will change the

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look and feel of the Cabinet.

Perhaps a woman could have become

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the Chief Whip. For Defence

Secretary. And Chief Whip. You said

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at one stage would be great to be

Prime Minister or Foreign Secretary.

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It would be great to serve in any

position.

You are talked about as a

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potential Defence Secretary amongst

your colleagues. We waiting by the

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phone for a phone call?

I have been

getting on to be chair of the

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Foreign Affairs Committee. Esther

has a rare talent. He is of two

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intakes and that is important. She

spent the first few months getting

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to know us and again with the second

intake. She really does reach across

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the party in a particular way. That

is a fantastic appointment.

We have

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discussed this before but it is a

really important feature of the Tory

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Party. The 2015, 2010 and 17 intakes

are now in the majority. People in

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the context of the emerging scandal

around harassment and the

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allegations around them, the

generational difference and shift in

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the power base really matters in

terms of that context. There are

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more people in the 1922 now who see

allegations which have been swirling

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around as obviously unacceptable and

from a different era. They are the

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ones who are increasingly in charge

of the party. We will discuss that

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in a moment. Thank you very much.

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So, as the revelations continue

to come, senior politicians

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in Westminster are scrambling

to get their house in order.

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Yesterday, the Prime Minister wrote

to all the other party leaders

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in the Commons inviting them

to a meeting next Monday

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to come up with the

serious, swift, cross-party response

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this issue demands".

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Mrs May went on to call for a

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"common, transparent independent

grievance procedure"

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for all those working in Parliament

and said a dedicated support team

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should be available to all staff

that would recommend

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all criminal allegations be

reported to the police.

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The proposals come after further

revelations appeared in the press

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including a former parliamentary

intern telling the BBC

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that he was sexually assaulted

by a former MP in 2012, and a report

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in the London Evening Standard

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about a woman alleging

she was sexually assaulted

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by the Conservative MP

she worked for.

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Meanwhile, First Minister Damian

Green, who's been accused

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of inappropriate behaviour

is being investigated by the Cabinet

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Secretary over whether he broke

the ministerial code.

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However, there are claims some MPs

are being unfairly accused.

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Conservative MPs Rory Stewart

and Dominic Raab, whose names appear

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on a spreadsheet of unverified

accusations, both went public

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to deny the allegations

levelled against them.

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Speaking earlier today,

the former Conseravative

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leader, Iain Duncan Smith,

said the culture of Westminster

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had to change.

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At the end of the day, yes,

there are sexual issues

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and there are some charges that

are not as powerful as

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other charges, but the key element

here is about abuse of power and I

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think that's a book

point to dwell on.

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In any organisation that people use

power to coerce people to do

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things that they would not normally

do, that is offensive behaviour and

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that is what this is really all

about, which is to say, you know,

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even if that was sort

of tolerated in the past,

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it will not be tolerated

from here on.

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I'm joined now by the Shadow Women

and Equalities Minister,

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Dawn Butler, and by the Conservative

peer, Ann Jenkin, who founded

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the Women 2 Win campaign which aims

to elect more Conservative women

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to Parliament.

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Michael Fallon said when he resigned

that what was acceptable ten, 15

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years ago is clearly not acceptable

now. Was it ever acceptable and you

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first started out in Parliament?

That is a good point. I started

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working in Parliament in 1976. Like

many of the young women who are

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there today. I was hit on pretty

regularly. There was definitely

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nobody could have gone to, nobody to

talk to. But the point I am very

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struck by is that in those days

there were 4% of women MPs, 27 women

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in total in Parliament, and it was

sort of an acceptable way of

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behaviour. Cecil Parkinson and all

that happened around my date.

Was it

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acceptable tolerated?

I was never

really assaulted in a way I felt

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deeply upset about.

You were

harassed.

Asked to go back to MPs

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houses but I would not have dreamt

of doing that. We slapped them down

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and moved on. I'm not suggesting

that some bus stuff is really

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serious but with more women in

Parliament, which has been Theresa

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May's a as well, not only other

better decisions but a better

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environment and culture.

Except it

still goes on. Not all the

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allegations are historic. Some of

them are relatively recent. Do you

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think there has been a sense that no

one wants to rock the vote in the

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past and that is why people have

been, to some extent allowed to get

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away with it?

It is difficult for me

to say. I don't hang about the

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sports and social club and do not

think that is the case. I would like

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to make the point about these

allegations. I was contacted by

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young woman who found herself on

that list totally innocently. No

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inappropriate behaviour. This list

is ruining peoples lives. Whether

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you deny it or not, you Google

somebody in their careers are going

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to be destroyed as a result of this.

There is a difference between

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allegations on the kind of swirling

innuendo and rumour that

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everybody... We are just in the

middle of this sort of terrible

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period. We have to calm down and

sort out the difference between

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proper predatory behaviour, rape

allegations and so on, and the kind

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of touching of a knee and consensual

acts, which are also on that list.

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Do you think this list which has

been doing the rounds with various

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MPs on it, Tory MPs, do think it has

been helpful when a lot of the

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allegations, they are not

allegations they are about

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extramarital affairs or sex between

two consenting adults?

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I'm not sure I would describe it as

being "helpful." Obviously to the

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whips it is the way they operate in

terms of these are the situations

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that might embarrass the Government,

so they keep a list and so I

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understand that to happen all the

time in the Whip's Office. I used to

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be a whip. We did haven't a list

like that. I wouldn't say it's

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helpful. I do agree with Ann in

terms of if it's consenting adults,

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then that's different from predatory

behaviour, which needs to be tackled

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and it was never acceptable. It

might have been that women didn't

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feel they could speak out about it,

but it was nevering acceptable in my

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opinion.

Has the bar been set too

low in judging politicians and

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whether they have behaved

inappropriate or does "zero

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tolerance" need to be enacted hooer?

I think it will be going forward.

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Maybe things people thought they

could get away with will no longer

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be the case, not just by the action

the Prime Minister is taking with

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the speaker and so on, I think the

fear now will make a difference.

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That is the way we break the culture

in Parliament. It was never

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acceptable. I think the Prime

Minister has been slow to react, to

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be honest. I think she should

suspend her ministers who haven't

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denied some wrongdoing.

For example?

Stephen Crabb. Once an investigation

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has taken place, then I think MPs

should be suspended while this

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investigation takes place. I think

that should be standard practise. I

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will be at the meeting on Monday

with the Prime Minister. I look

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forward to working across all

parties. I also think there's a

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valuable role for trade unions and

the role that they play in

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Parliament that's often overlooked

and dismissed maybe too easily.

You

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mention Stephen Crabb - he's not a

minister. Do you think Damian Green,

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the First Secretary of State being

investigateded by the Cabinet

0:18:210:18:27

Secretary, should he be suspended or

resign while this is going on?

I

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cannot comment on it until I hear

the results of the investigation.

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These are allegations at the moment.

But Dawn is right. It was never

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acceptable for people to be afraid

for any reason to go into a

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workplace to demonstrate the

fullness of their talents. It is

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something which has held back the UK

that people have not been feeling

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comfortable in workplaces over

previous years. They should do now.

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We should all feel safe and express

oural lents whatever they are.

Are

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you frustrated by the some of your

older colleagues? Do you think

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there's a generational issue in the

Houses of Parliament that behaviour

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that some of your older colleagues

in the House might think was

0:19:100:19:15

acceptable, for you and your

contemporaries is not?

It would be

0:19:150:19:20

absolutely unfair to blame an older

generation, most of whom are

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blameless of this. And the action

the Prime Minister has taken has

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been very quick because she realises

that this is not only

0:19:270:19:30

unacceptable...

Except Michael

Fallon said what happens what was

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acceptable 10-15 years ago is not

now. What did you think of that?

0:19:350:19:39

Michael Fallon has resigned. I will

not comment on his statement. The

0:19:390:19:42

Prime Minister has answered it. What

I will say is...

What does it say

0:19:420:19:47

about that generation?

His comments

on his generation are for him to

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make. The comment I am making is

that generation wasn't all guilty it

0:19:510:19:55

would be wrong...

It is about a

difference of behaviour in how you

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actually set new standards and

whether it will be possible.

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Do you think there'll have to be

more resetting in order to reset

0:20:180:20:25

impropriety?

The new conduct which

is coming will be very clear.

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Anybody can now make allegations

about anything. I mean they could

0:20:300:20:33

make completely false ones. They

could say I was in a lift with

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someone and he pressed up against

me. You have to be careful going

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forward.

Do people have to have

someone they can speak to?

Yes.

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Because of how MPs are self-employed

you can not go to anybody apart from

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the managers who are political in

that strict sense of the word and

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they will do what they can to

protect, wrongly,s many people

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think, their own side.

That is

exactly what's going to be sorted

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out going forward.

If you are

looking ahead and the line which has

0:21:040:21:08

to be drawn, do you think, Dawn

Butler, now that anything like hands

0:21:080:21:12

on knees, which was the allegation

and the claim made about Michael

0:21:120:21:16

Fallon, that all of that now has to

stop and will stop?

I think if it's

0:21:160:21:21

not consensual it's harassment. Not

whether you put your hand on their

0:21:210:21:33

knee, whether it is with permission.

If you brush that arm away and say

0:21:330:21:36

whatever to that person, that is not

the point or issue. That is how we

0:21:360:21:39

break the culture. We break the

culture by tackling all of the

0:21:390:21:44

harassment cases. If you don't start

with the little things, it makes it

0:21:440:21:48

harder to deal with the bigger

things.

There have been fairly

0:21:480:21:52

serious allegations that obviously

Labour are having to deal with.

0:21:520:21:57

Firstly the case of Jared O' Mara.

He has lost the whip. Aallegation

0:21:570:22:06

made against a Labour Party

official. What is Labour doing at

0:22:060:22:09

this point? ?

As you said Jared has

been suspended from the whip while

0:22:090:22:18

the ingestgation takes place.

How

long will it take?

I don't know.

0:22:180:22:21

It's an investigation. So we have to

let the investigation take its

0:22:210:22:25

course. The Labour Party has very

strong, robust procedures, which

0:22:250:22:31

it's had for years. But it's been

improved oh d over the last 12

0:22:310:22:39

months. This week there's been a bit

ratified by the executive committee.

0:22:390:22:45

We take this very, very seriously.

We have worked with the trade

0:22:450:22:48

unions. We have worked with ACAS,

with leading legal experts to make

0:22:480:22:58

sure our policy is robust. In

relation to Bex Bailey, who had

0:22:580:23:03

confidence to talk about

herpublicly, she talks about the

0:23:030:23:07

independence of our policies and

reviews, and there is independence

0:23:070:23:10

built into our policies. We are

looking how we make it even more

0:23:100:23:14

independent. As you said, you need

to feel comfortable and that it will

0:23:140:23:25

be taken seriously.

The allegation

was horrendous, but the other part

0:23:250:23:30

of her story was she went to speak

to somebody within the Labour Party.

0:23:300:23:33

Someone senior. She didn't feel her

concerns were taken on. In fact,

0:23:330:23:38

quite the opposite. She was told

that her career may be harmed. What

0:23:380:23:42

do you think about that as a woman

in the Labour Party?

I'm devastated

0:23:420:23:47

that could ever happen. But the

policy that the Labour has now and

0:23:470:23:52

the procedures wasn't in place then.

Are you saying it could never happen

0:23:520:23:55

now?

I'm certain the policies in

place now would ensure that wouldn't

0:23:550:24:00

happen. But what happened needs to

be investigated. We're going to be

0:24:000:24:06

breaking the culture of, you know,

that we tackle whatever happened, to

0:24:060:24:14

make somebody think it was OK to

give that information.

If someone

0:24:140:24:16

came to you now saying they had been

sexually harassed, what would you

0:24:160:24:21

say to them?

I think now the

procedures will be in place.

0:24:210:24:27

Actually, it's more likely I'm

getting people at the moment who say

0:24:270:24:31

I haven't been andvy the highest

respect for the MP I work for and we

0:24:310:24:35

find ourselves in this terrible

storm. In the old days, before there

0:24:350:24:39

were new procedures I would have

gone to the Whip's Office and made

0:24:390:24:44

sure that whoever it was that was,

who had the allegations made against

0:24:440:24:49

them was properly looked into.

Do

you this I the people who feel they

0:24:490:24:53

have been wrongly accused and there

is some anger and fear, will they

0:24:530:24:57

take legal action? Do you think we

will see action taken?

I hear

0:24:570:25:01

rumours there might be. Of course

that is very expensive and there are

0:25:010:25:06

probably not many MPs in a position

to be able to do that. We have to be

0:25:060:25:10

really careful about getting this

right and that people who are

0:25:100:25:14

innocent and are not going to be

witch-hunted as well as the people

0:25:140:25:19

who are guilty.

Thank you very much.

0:25:190:25:23

Now some breaking news. As we came

on air, the beaning confirmed that

0:25:230:25:28

interests are to rise by 0. 25% to

0.5%. That is a significant moment.

0:25:280:25:34

This is the first increase in just

over a decade. And it had been

0:25:340:25:39

speculated about over the last few

months. What will it mean for

0:25:390:25:45

mortgages and saving accounts,

inflation exchange rates. I am

0:25:450:25:49

joined now by Simon Gompertz.

0:25:490:25:54

It is the first rise in over 10

years.

It is a big moment. Interest

0:25:540:26:01

rates have doubled to just half a

per cent. So they are still very

0:26:010:26:05

low. It's been eight years since

they started being ultra low. During

0:26:050:26:10

that time since the financial crisis

the Bank of England judged the

0:26:100:26:14

economy needed cheap money to prop

it up. Recently unemployment's been

0:26:140:26:18

very low. Inflation's reignited. So

they have decided this is the moment

0:26:180:26:22

to push them up. And it's a

watershed. But in the financial

0:26:220:26:29

markets, first of all there was an

increase in the pound. Since then

0:26:290:26:32

it's been up and down. That is

because it's not just the increase

0:26:320:26:36

in interest rates that they are

looking at, it is the sub text,

0:26:360:26:40

what's written behind that and what

the bank has said is that further

0:26:400:26:44

increases will be gradually in their

pace and limited in their extent. So

0:26:440:26:48

once the markets look at that, the

pound fell back again. It's all

0:26:480:26:52

about what sort of return you get

from holding your money in sterling

0:26:520:26:57

and they are thinking perhaps that

won't rise very fast, that limited

0:26:570:27:00

extent and in some of the forecasts

that the bank has issued, it seems

0:27:000:27:05

to indicate that there might be

another increase, but a small one,

0:27:050:27:09

another 0. 25% next year and we

wouldn't get to 1% interest rates.

0:27:090:27:13

Still very low in historic terms

until about 2020.

It is still low in

0:27:130:27:19

historic terms. Obviously over the

last ten years that has been the

0:27:190:27:23

status quo, if you like and people

have got used to it. And there'll be

0:27:230:27:27

many people who will worry about

going, mortgages going up, about an

0:27:270:27:34

increase in their monthly payments

and that will spread a certain

0:27:340:27:37

amount of concern, won't it?

It

will. You can say well mortgages are

0:27:370:27:43

cheap in historic terms because

mortgages are so low, but so many

0:27:430:27:47

people have bought assuming their

mortgage rate will be low so they

0:27:470:27:50

have borrowed more. If interest goes

up they could be up against this.

0:27:500:27:54

This small increase of 0. 25%, there

are around 17 million people with

0:27:540:27:59

mortgages. Around nine million

actual mortgages - a lot of those

0:27:590:28:04

are couples. The people with

variable rate mortgages, the ones

0:28:040:28:08

affected might see an increase of

around £12 a month. So some people

0:28:080:28:15

say that that's the straw that

breaks the camel's back. For others

0:28:150:28:19

it will not be very big. What they

will look at is whether there are

0:28:190:28:23

more coming along. That is a concern

for many people. You have savers -

0:28:230:28:28

45 million savers in this country

will hope that after years of small

0:28:280:28:34

returns on their savings they will

get more back. The ISA is around

0:28:340:28:39

£10,000. The average interest rate

would have got you £30 a year on

0:28:390:28:44

that. With this increase, maybe £50

a year. So, some light at the end of

0:28:440:28:49

the tunnel for savers there.

Thank

you very much.

0:28:490:28:54

Do you welcome this rise?

I welcome

the fact the Bank of England has

0:28:540:28:58

taken this decision. I think it is

right to recognise that the economy

0:28:580:29:02

is progressing well. And that

therefore a bit of a rise in the

0:29:020:29:08

interest rate...

There will be many

people who say, actually from their

0:29:080:29:13

perspective, the economy is not

progressing well in terms of wage

0:29:130:29:16

stagnation and the fact that

inflation has reached 3%. They will

0:29:160:29:20

say that 0. 25% will make it harder

to meet monthly payments.

As Simon

0:29:200:29:26

Gompertz just said, a lot of people

are savers and it will make a big

0:29:260:29:30

difference for them. Of course we

now have record employment levels

0:29:300:29:35

and a record low unemployment level.

So for many the indication of a

0:29:350:29:39

strong economy are definitely there.

0:29:390:29:42

Ministers are under fresh

pressure to publish a series

0:29:430:29:46

of Brexit impact studies

following a Commons

0:29:460:29:47

debate yesterday.

0:29:470:29:50

Some Conservative MPs joined Labour

in calling for the 58 documents,

0:29:500:29:54

which focus on different sectors

of the economy, to be put

0:29:540:29:58

in the public domain.

0:29:580:29:59

Labour is seeking to use an arcane

Parliamentary procedure,

0:29:590:30:02

known as a 'humble address',

to try to force

0:30:020:30:04

the Government's hand.

0:30:040:30:06

Ministers say they will now consider

the matter although they have argued

0:30:060:30:08

that publication could undermine

the ongoing negotiations

0:30:080:30:11

with the EU.

0:30:110:30:12

Here's a flavour of

last night's debate.

0:30:120:30:20

Looking at the list, which I have

here, two things are obvious.

0:30:200:30:26

The first is that in many ways it's

unremarkable and could and should

0:30:260:30:29

have been published months ago.

0:30:290:30:33

The second is that the wide range

of sectors analysed demonstrate why

0:30:330:30:39

it's so important for members

of this House to see the

0:30:390:30:42

impact assessment.

0:30:420:30:42

It is normal for Select Committees

themselves to request

0:30:420:30:45

information, not to get

the opposition, the official

0:30:450:30:47

opposition, to do it

on their behalf.

0:30:470:30:50

This is gameplaying.

0:30:500:30:52

Every time, every time

somebody raises a legitimate

0:30:520:30:59

question, it's suggested

that somehow they're

0:30:590:31:02

frustrating or undermining

the process.

0:31:020:31:05

The House will appreciate the more

information for that is shared more

0:31:050:31:08

widely, the less secure our

negotiating position and the harder

0:31:080:31:10

it becomes to secure the right deal

for the British people.

0:31:100:31:13

The House has the right

to require the

0:31:130:31:15

release of documents,

but I sincerely hope

0:31:150:31:16

in what is requested in terms of how

they guarantee the

0:31:160:31:19

necessary confidentiality

going forward and how much

0:31:190:31:21

is requested by the opposition

spokesman, the Select

0:31:210:31:23

Committee and the House will be

mindful of the job that ministers

0:31:230:31:25

need to do.

0:31:250:31:26

That job is to secure the vital

national interests of the

0:31:260:31:29

United Kingdom as we negotiate our

departure from the European Union.

0:31:290:31:37

THE SPEAKER: Traditionally,

such motions have been regarded

0:31:370:31:41

as binding or effective, consistent

with that established pattern

0:31:410:31:44

and tradition.

0:31:440:31:45

I would expect the address to be

presented by the Vice

0:31:450:31:48

Chamberlain of the Household

in the usual way.

0:31:480:31:50

However, I would add that I think

it's sensible for us, for

0:31:500:31:55

the House, to wait for

the Government's response.

0:31:550:32:05

We're joined now by

Matthew Pennycook, who's

0:32:060:32:08

a Shadow Brexit Minister.

0:32:080:32:11

Welcome. What do you think we will

learn from these impact assessments?

0:32:110:32:17

Hopefully we will only impact of

different Brexit scenarios on a

0:32:170:32:21

range of sectors of the economy that

this covers. Covering 29 million

0:32:210:32:28

people at work, 88% of the economy.

That is why to assemble and that the

0:32:280:32:33

select committee has sight of them.

They need to have more grip around

0:32:330:32:37

the process and look at what the

impact would be for businesses,

0:32:370:32:42

communities and individuals.

Why

doesn't the Government just

0:32:420:32:44

published them?

I spoke to my whip

yesterday and said I was encouraging

0:32:440:32:52

him to do so. He listened and

acknowledged it.

I do think it is

0:32:520:32:57

important to be open about this?

Has

much as possible we should be

0:32:570:33:03

opened. We are representatives are

not rulers will are here to try to

0:33:030:33:07

make the best decisions we should be

as open as possible. We should not

0:33:070:33:10

be so open that we damage

negotiations that we are conducting

0:33:100:33:14

damage any form of secrecy that

protect the nation. The lives it is

0:33:140:33:19

not that, I am in favour of

openness. -- so long it is not that.

0:33:190:33:27

They say it will undermine the UK's

negotiating position? Sign that is

0:33:270:33:32

why the Government has agreed to

publish it with certain reductions.

0:33:320:33:37

They might say their hands are

bound.

We have always said, and we

0:33:370:33:42

accept the principle, you should not

reveal anything where a case could

0:33:420:33:46

be convincingly made that it

undermines the national interest. If

0:33:460:33:51

the Government felt so strongly

about it, it was their defence if

0:33:510:33:55

they felt publication of these

assessments in any form would have

0:33:550:34:00

compromised the negotiating

position, they should have voted

0:34:000:34:02

against. They accept the principle

that the report should go to the

0:34:020:34:08

select committee. I welcome the

moves that were made this morning.

0:34:080:34:13

He has spoken to the chair of the

select committee. They will come

0:34:130:34:16

together and decide how the select

committee publishes it in a format

0:34:160:34:22

does not undermine negotiations.

Surely the Government would have

0:34:220:34:27

opposed the vote.

David Davis has a

long history of campaigning for

0:34:270:34:32

human rights and the rights of

Parliament and the rights of the

0:34:320:34:35

British people. I'm sure he will

take the right decision in there.

0:34:350:34:39

Hilary Benn is of high integrity.

I'm sure they will come to the right

0:34:390:34:50

answer that reveals as much as

possible, which is important but

0:34:500:34:52

also make sure negotiations are

protected.

In terms of redacted

0:34:520:34:55

information, if so much of it is

blocked out that we will not learn

0:34:550:34:59

very much, will we?

I think the

select committee, the Brexit select

0:34:590:35:14

committee, should get the studies in

full. It should be up to them to

0:35:140:35:17

decide how it should be published in

a wider sense. The Brexit select

0:35:170:35:24

committee has a government majority

and serious parliamentarians who

0:35:240:35:28

have been scrutinising the whole

process in minute detail they should

0:35:280:35:31

be odd to see the studies. It is

about us representing our

0:35:310:35:36

constituents and only impact of

different scenarios and being able

0:35:360:35:40

to make a considered judgment on

their behalf. It is about Parliament

0:35:400:35:45

taking back control of the process.

There were reports that the Queen

0:35:450:35:49

would have to make a statement on

the issue.

I read that story myself.

0:35:490:35:57

A government source suggested that.

As Jacob Rees Mogg said yesterday, a

0:35:570:36:04

long-standing, Parliamentary power

that we exercised last night to

0:36:040:36:08

court papers and information

forward. This should not have been

0:36:080:36:12

controversial. The Government, as in

many aspects of the process, has had

0:36:120:36:18

to be dragged, kicking and

screaming, rather than taking it on

0:36:180:36:22

board as a critical friend and

taking the information which could

0:36:220:36:28

legitimately have been seen by the

select committee.

You said you would

0:36:280:36:34

like to see these documents

published. Do you think the

0:36:340:36:37

Government is not giving Parliament

generally enough say on Brexit?

We

0:36:370:36:43

seem to be speaking about Brexit

every day and for several hours each

0:36:430:36:48

day. It is not including not only

the Brexit select committee which is

0:36:480:36:55

covering very specifically the

negotiations actually the Defra

0:36:550:36:58

committee, the home affairs

committee and many other committees

0:36:580:37:01

which are covering other elements

within the process.

You have had

0:37:010:37:07

success. The Government did not

oppose the vote and the documents

0:37:070:37:10

will be published. I don't know the

timescale. Do except what is being

0:37:100:37:15

said in general that Parliament is

having a substantial say over

0:37:150:37:21

Brexit? Parliament is having a lot

of discussion about Brexit. Whether

0:37:210:37:26

the select committee has the

information it needs to have a

0:37:260:37:29

thoughtful debate about the economic

impact of different scenarios,

0:37:290:37:34

Brexit, on different sectors, that

is what last night was about. We did

0:37:340:37:38

not have that the forefoot of it has

been going on since late last year.

0:37:380:37:43

The Government has been forced by

parliament last night, people joined

0:37:430:37:52

with us to say this have to happen.

This humble address will make sure

0:37:520:37:56

it has. We will look forward to

speaking to you or Hilary Benn about

0:37:560:38:00

the contents of those assessments.

0:38:000:38:06

Since we have been on and the Prime

0:38:060:38:09

Minister has welcomed her Australian

counterpart to Downing Street.

0:38:090:38:16

He's in the UK to mark

the 100th anniversary

0:38:160:38:18

of the Balfour Declaration -

the pledge by the then

0:38:180:38:21

British Foreign Secretary

which paved the way

0:38:210:38:23

for the creation of Israel.

0:38:230:38:24

Israel and Jewish communities view

the pledge as momentous,

0:38:240:38:26

while Palestinians regard it

as a historical injustice.

0:38:260:38:28

The UK has rejected calls

to apologise and has said

0:38:280:38:30

it is proud of its role.

0:38:300:38:32

We'll discuss all that in a moment,

but first Elizabeth Glinka reports

0:38:320:38:35

on the significance of the Balfour

Declaration.

0:38:350:38:45

The modern state of Israel was born

in 1948. For the Jews, the

0:38:470:38:55

realisation of a dream. For

Palestinians, the great catastrophe.

0:38:550:38:59

Many see the roots of that birth in

a short letter that was written here

0:38:590:39:03

at the Foreign Office 30 years

earlier, on 2nd of November, 1917.

0:39:030:39:09

The then Foreign Secretary Arthur

Bower for road to Rothschild, a

0:39:090:39:12

leading member of the British Jewish

community is then the Government

0:39:120:39:17

would give its best endeavours to

create a homeland for the Jewish

0:39:170:39:21

people in Palestine.

It was the

moment that then most powerful

0:39:210:39:26

country on earth, Britain, when it

still had an empire, just before the

0:39:260:39:29

end of the First World War,

recognised the right of the Jews to

0:39:290:39:35

a national home in Palestine. It was

then part of the Ottoman Empire and

0:39:350:39:39

was about to be occupied in

conquered by the British.

As the war

0:39:390:39:45

on the Western front raged, it

fulfilled a political necessity to

0:39:450:39:50

fill the void created as the Ottoman

Turks withdrew. It allowed men like

0:39:500:39:55

Balfour and the Prime Minister,

David Lloyd George Glad to act on

0:39:550:39:59

the digits convictions, supporting

idea that the Jews might once again

0:39:590:40:02

make their home in the promised

land. While a significant number of

0:40:020:40:10

Jews were living in Jerusalem, 90%

of the population in the rest of the

0:40:100:40:15

territories where Palestinians. They

think persecution elsewhere, the

0:40:150:40:18

declaration meant the rate of Jewish

migration sped up. By the time the

0:40:180:40:23

league of Nations approve the plan

in 1922, more than 100,000 Jews had

0:40:230:40:28

arrived in Palestine. And yet, the

language of Balfour's to does not

0:40:280:40:35

begin and end with support for the

Jewish state was it does not use the

0:40:350:40:40

words Jewish state at all. It

includes qualifications that nothing

0:40:400:40:43

should be done to prejudice the

rights of non-Jewish communities and

0:40:430:40:47

that it should not affect the status

of Jews living in other countries.

0:40:470:40:54

The majority view amongst

Palestinians is that the declaration

0:40:540:40:57

spells catastrophe. Some argue that

need not have been the case.

If

0:40:570:41:03

Britain had here to the language of

the Balfour Declaration, in my

0:41:030:41:06

opinion things would have been very

different. The Middle East and

0:41:060:41:09

probably the world at large would

have been a happier place. I want to

0:41:090:41:13

acknowledge that while we cannot go

back, we also have a moral

0:41:130:41:18

obligation to do something, to make

things better.

The birth of a much

0:41:180:41:23

longed for homeland for people

persecuted and despised elsewhere.

0:41:230:41:28

All the root cause of destitution,

suffering and destitution. Hundreds

0:41:280:41:34

of years later interpretations of

the Balfour Declaration are as

0:41:340:41:37

divided as the conflict itself.

0:41:370:41:41

To discuss this, I'm

joined now by the former

0:41:410:41:43

deputy Secretary-General

of the United Nations

0:41:430:41:45

and former Foreign Office Minister

under Gordon Brown,

0:41:450:41:47

Mark Malloch-Brown.

0:41:470:41:49

Welcome to the studio. Is the

Balfour Declaration of 1917 piece of

0:41:490:41:56

British foreign policy that should

be celebrated?

Strangely it is two

0:41:560:42:00

claims that it should be a home for

Jews in the Middle East even though

0:42:000:42:04

it is not described as a state and

yet the rights of the Palestinians

0:42:040:42:08

and other Arab groups should be

protected actually remains an

0:42:080:42:14

extraordinary consistent framework

for policy. There have been many

0:42:140:42:17

deviations from it in the years

between. I am sure that Balfour,

0:42:170:42:21

when he wrote the 67 word letter,

had no idea how it would echo down

0:42:210:42:26

the years and beset the

consequential document 100 years

0:42:260:42:30

later. So, it has had its ups and

downs and it should be recognised as

0:42:300:42:35

a significant document.

You don't

see that it was in some ways

0:42:350:42:41

duplicitous because of the promise

also to the non-Jewish communities

0:42:410:42:45

and the other ethnic groups that

were there at the time, that their

0:42:450:42:48

rights should not in any way be

marginalised. And yet has never

0:42:480:42:54

lived up to that.

Policy has not

lived up to the promise of the

0:42:540:42:58

letter at all. There have been a

hundred years of duplicity go much

0:42:580:43:02

wider than this letter. The other

thing to be understood as we look at

0:43:020:43:05

it through this narrow frame of a

letter to Lord Rothschild from the

0:43:050:43:10

British Foreign Secretary, as though

it was cooked up in the Westminster

0:43:100:43:14

bubble of the time, and the

financial bubble in the city at the

0:43:140:43:18

time. In fact, it was really

produced by much broader issues, the

0:43:180:43:23

collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the

potential division of Labour between

0:43:230:43:29

France, or division of influence

between Britain and France in the

0:43:290:43:32

Middle East. There was a lot more

cooking behind that letter than just

0:43:320:43:35

protection of the rights of Jews.

Right. Do you agree with Mark

0:43:350:43:41

Malloch Brown in the sense that the

promises that were in the letter, it

0:43:410:43:45

is a piece of British foreign policy

which has not lived up to what it

0:43:450:43:50

intended to happen?

I agree

absolutely with Mark Malik Branfoot

0:43:500:43:54

gets written at a certain time in

the First World War, at time when

0:43:540:43:59

Britain was fighting for national

survival and was not at all sure of

0:43:590:44:02

winning on the Western front and was

looking for allies and friends

0:44:020:44:06

everywhere. That is why it is a

piece of paper that is written in a

0:44:060:44:09

very careful way. As lord Malik

Brown puts it, with competing

0:44:090:44:16

interests. It is a moment when, for

the first time, the United Kingdom

0:44:160:44:23

government recognises that the

people of Israel, the Jews, have a

0:44:230:44:28

right to self-determination and a

homeland in that sense it is a very

0:44:280:44:31

important document.

Some say it is

very important for there to be a

0:44:310:44:36

homeland, the state, for Jews to go

and live. There are those who say

0:44:360:44:41

the Balfour Declaration was a

mistake, are they saying that Israel

0:44:410:44:45

doesn't have a right to exist?

It is

two things. I would hope there are

0:44:450:44:50

very few left to claim that Israel

does have a right to exist. I know

0:44:500:44:55

there remains the outstanding

diplomatic issue of how the

0:44:550:44:59

Palestinians fully recognise and

acknowledge that. I think, to be

0:44:590:45:04

honest, today's to system is much

more about the other half, the

0:45:040:45:08

promise of protecting the rights of

Palestinians and the failure to

0:45:080:45:12

deliver on that. It is a tragedy

that on the one hand you have the

0:45:120:45:20

one Democratic state of the region,

Israel, and yet, the cost of that is

0:45:200:45:23

5 million Palestinians in their

fourth or fifth generation of Exxon

0:45:230:45:26

living in camps and an unsolved

tragedy.

Do you agree with Jeremy

0:45:260:45:31

Corbyn, the Labour leader, he won't

be attending the dinner tonight,

0:45:310:45:35

that not enough has been said by

successive British governments about

0:45:350:45:39

that tragedy?

If I were invited to

dinner, I would certainly go. It is

0:45:390:45:46

in every way a significant event. If

one went, it would be to remind

0:45:460:45:53

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of

Israel that he cannot turn his back

0:45:530:45:56

on finding a solution to this

crisis. Frankly, the problem today

0:45:560:46:01

is of the impetus for a negotiated

solution to the Palestinian issue

0:46:010:46:05

being much less than it has been for

some decades. We are at a moment

0:46:050:46:10

where it has frankly been beached

and put aside.

Isn't that then a

0:46:100:46:14

strong statement being sent by the

Labour leader that he does not want

0:46:140:46:18

to grace this dinner because of his

opposition to what he says is

0:46:180:46:24

obviously occupied territory,

expansion of illegal settlements in

0:46:240:46:27

the West Bank? That that is a

stronger signal to send to Benjamin

0:46:270:46:36

Netanyahu?

The signal that Labour

has been sending to the Israeli

0:46:360:46:39

people of the last few years has

been concerning. I'm sorry that he

0:46:390:46:43

has decided not to attend the

dinner. It would have made a for

0:46:430:46:46

some of the incidents we have seen

in recent months. I think we should

0:46:460:46:51

recognise that many of the soldiers

I had great privilege to serve with

0:46:510:46:54

in Afghanistan and Iraq are alive

because of Israeli technology and

0:46:540:46:58

counter IED is they shared with us

as allies and friends.

How do you

0:46:580:47:04

view the Israeli, Palestinian

conflict in terms of the wider

0:47:040:47:06

geopolitics?

0:47:060:47:09

It is quite clear it is an important

important issue to resolve. We have

0:47:090:47:16

to recognise that we are one of many

countries now who have a voice in

0:47:160:47:20

the region, but not the colonial

over-Lord we were pre-1947.

You

0:47:200:47:29

wrote the Arab-Israeli conflict

didn't matter in terms of the Arab

0:47:290:47:32

Spring.

Exactly.

What did you mean

If you went to Cairo and to other

0:47:320:47:42

places around the area, if you saw

Beirut they didn't talk about

0:47:420:47:46

Israel. They talked about

self-determination, economic

0:47:460:47:50

empowerful. The word Israel never

crossed the mouths of people.

0:47:500:48:00

Do you agree some way, politically,

in parts of the Arab world, that

0:48:000:48:05

that conflict, which so many people

want to see resolve is often used to

0:48:050:48:10

deflect attention away from very

serious issues within the countries

0:48:100:48:14

that Tom Tugendhat has talking

about?

I do, actually. I would say

0:48:140:48:18

that the seeds of all the problems

in the Middle East, strangely, or

0:48:180:48:23

many were set in the same period as

this declaration where we have got a

0:48:230:48:28

whole set of sort of half-baked

national borders through the region.

0:48:280:48:33

The whole issue of national

determination and the

0:48:330:48:37

self-determination in the Middle

East is much wider than just

0:48:370:48:43

Israel-plain. We have a dangerous --

Israel Palestinian. We have

0:48:430:48:49

dangerous conflict and behind it

conservative regimes failing to sort

0:48:490:48:53

of embrace and include their ever

younger, larger larger demography.

0:48:530:49:05

It faces jeopardy from a very

dangerous neighbourhood.

Do you

0:49:050:49:10

think, are we ever going to see a

Palestinian state in the next sort

0:49:100:49:15

of ten years?

As I say, I think

temporarily at least the goal has

0:49:150:49:22

been set one. There will not be one

which does not include a Palestinian

0:49:220:49:28

state among other political things

which have to be achieved as well.

0:49:280:49:31

Thank you.

0:49:310:49:32

Let's return to our main story:

the appointment of Gavin Williamson

0:49:350:49:37

as the new Defence Secretary

following the resignation

0:49:370:49:39

of Michael Fallon last night.

0:49:390:49:40

I'm joined now by Tom Newton Dunn,

political editor of The Sun,

0:49:400:49:43

and Kate McCann, political

correspondent for

0:49:430:49:45

The Daily Telegraph.

0:49:450:49:48

Welcome to both of you. Your

reaction to Gavin Williamson. Were

0:49:500:49:55

you surprised?

Yes. Intensely

surprised. No other way of putting

0:49:550:49:59

it. It is a fascinating appointment.

High risk. We have seen some quite

0:49:590:50:07

verbous reaction from people within

-- vicious reaction from people

0:50:070:50:12

criticising it. It is the sort of

move a Prime Minister makes knowing

0:50:120:50:16

very well that the first thing we

all end up writing about is House of

0:50:160:50:22

Cards comparisons. Is he plotting a

secret rise? To do that and go

0:50:220:50:28

through that Theresa May has to be

quite sure this is going to work out

0:50:280:50:31

in the long-term. I think there's a

lot of interesting reasons. Brexit

0:50:310:50:36

negotiations is an important one.

The Defence Secretary has a key seat

0:50:360:50:40

on the Cabinet negotiation sub

committee, which will decide what

0:50:400:50:43

happens, what we ask for. It is

those long-term long-term

0:50:430:50:51

calculations.

Gavin Williamson has

been put in post, promoted from

0:50:510:50:57

Chief Whip to that role of Defence

Secretary. Were you surprised to

0:50:570:51:01

hear Michael Fallon had resigned

last night?

Yes. We were surprised

0:51:010:51:04

last night and again this morning.

There were some surprised noises

0:51:040:51:09

come from the press gallery

corridor. Michael Fallon is an

0:51:090:51:12

interesting case. The Sun's

front-page looked incredibly bad for

0:51:120:51:16

him. There's not been anything else

come out since then. What was

0:51:160:51:21

interesting listening to friends of

Michael Fallon last night saying

0:51:210:51:25

maybe some of his behaviour from 15

years ago, which at the time might

0:51:250:51:29

have been seen as flirting may not

be seen the same way now. If that is

0:51:290:51:35

enough for a senior Cabinet minister

to resign their position what does

0:51:350:51:38

it mean for others on this list?

What does it mean for the other

0:51:380:51:43

high-profile names that we are

asking questions about that? This

0:51:430:51:45

might be the start of something

bigger. There are definitely

0:51:450:51:49

questions for people like Damian

Green, who is facing an

0:51:490:51:52

investigation himself.

The that is

the bar which has been set from what

0:51:520:51:58

we know and from what Michael Fallon

he himself has said about this

0:51:580:52:03

unacceptable behaviour as seen

through today's prism, do you think

0:52:030:52:07

there'll be other Cabinet ministers

resigning?

I think there will be

0:52:070:52:13

other ministers resigning, but I

don't think for that reason,

0:52:130:52:16

strangely enough. The bar hasn't

been lowered. Michael Fallon went

0:52:160:52:22

not because he touched a knee 15

years ago at a drunken dinner. There

0:52:220:52:29

are worse examples of inappropriate

behaviour by him. He went for that

0:52:290:52:33

reason alone. I think we may find

out in the next few days exactly

0:52:330:52:38

what those further allegations were.

I am now sure there are further

0:52:380:52:42

allegations. That doesn't

necessarily mean any other ministers

0:52:420:52:47

have to go for mildly inappropriate,

still wrong behaviour. I do think

0:52:470:52:51

there are at least one or two

ministers, who we know the names of

0:52:510:52:55

and you know the names of two, who

are known for this sort of

0:52:550:52:59

behaviour. The proof hasn't emerged

yet. I will be amazed if the proof

0:52:590:53:06

doesn't emerge and they end up

going.

There could be a further

0:53:060:53:09

reshuffle. This was done as a

precision reshuffle so there didn't

0:53:090:53:15

have to be a wide-ranging moving of

the chairs. But in the end Theresa

0:53:150:53:18

May have to do more. . She may well.

There have already been some

0:53:180:53:23

questions about, previous to this

and previous the Westminster assault

0:53:230:53:28

allegations which have come out

whether there might be some movement

0:53:280:53:33

there. I think what people have been

saying in the background is the

0:53:330:53:36

decision she's made today may

encourage some other people who have

0:53:360:53:40

allegations or who have, you know,

things have been said about them, to

0:53:400:53:44

come forward. Gavin Williamson has

been moved from the Whip's Office

0:53:440:53:48

into a Government department. That

could shake things up and mean that

0:53:480:53:52

Theresa May will have to make more

big changes. Thank you to you both.

0:53:520:53:56

In the grey world of politics,

Boris Johnson brings

0:53:590:54:01

a flash of colour -

so his fans say.

0:54:010:54:04

And in the serious world

of international diplomacy,

0:54:040:54:06

the Foreign Secretary brings humour.

0:54:060:54:10

Tom Tugendhat claimed that his brand

of humour is not translated on to

0:54:100:54:14

global stage.

0:54:140:54:16

Yesterday Mr Johnson was asked

by an MP on Tom's committee

0:54:160:54:19

about promoting English wine

and was then challenged over jokes

0:54:190:54:21

about Italian prosecco.

0:54:210:54:25

I think, actually, telling jokes

is often very effective way

0:54:250:54:28

of getting the message across.

0:54:280:54:31

I'll just say that in parenthesis.

0:54:310:54:33

Sometimes, actually...

0:54:330:54:38

Sometimes people greatly appreciate

that you're are talking

0:54:380:54:41

to them in that informal way whilst

subtlety getting your point across.

0:54:410:54:44

I think that's actually a bit

condescending to think they don't

0:54:440:54:49

get the point.

0:54:490:54:59

Where does Boris Jonathan stand in

your mind?

Well, he's the current

0:55:050:55:09

Foreign Secretary.

How would you

view him against the -- view him

0:55:090:55:15

against the giants of the Foreign

Office?

He doesn't have

0:55:150:55:21

responsibility Brexit, not for trade

N that sense, the Foreign Office is

0:55:210:55:24

doing a lot less than those Foreign

Secretaries were doing.

Is that a

0:55:240:55:28

good thing?

It is a reality because

the focus on Brexit has to be so

0:55:280:55:33

entire that a single minister has

taken it on.

How do you see him as

0:55:330:55:41

defending joke telling as diplomacy?

We have different perspectives on

0:55:410:55:44

this. My views have been made clear.

My views having spoken to people in

0:55:440:55:49

Paris, Rome and other parts, who

have received some elements of the

0:55:490:55:59

humour than others. -- less than

others. It is to influence and get a

0:55:590:56:03

positive outcome. I am always

cautious we should do so in the most

0:56:030:56:10

a dishous way possible.

Do you think

he has stop the jokes? . It is not

0:56:100:56:15

for me to tell the Foreign Secretary

how to conduct his foreign policy.

0:56:150:56:18

It is for me to advice on areas I

think it could be improved. You have

0:56:180:56:23

said it is not working - it is not

judicious. You are the chair, and

0:56:230:56:29

you are to scrutinise the Foreign

Secretary. Is he an effective

0:56:290:56:34

ambassador in the middle of these

negotiations?

He's not doing the

0:56:340:56:38

negotiations.

You have spoken to

people in the European capitals.

0:56:380:56:43

That is why I welcome David Davis is

doing the negotiations. He is a

0:56:430:56:47

steady pair of hands and done well

over the last year in making sure

0:56:470:56:55

our relationship is good.

Do you agree with Boris Jonathan

0:56:550:57:05

that it's condescending to think our

foreign allies cannot understand or

0:57:050:57:08

take a joke.

I read their papers and

respond accordingly.

Is it damaging

0:57:080:57:15

Britain's standing in the world

having Boris Jonathan behaving this

0:57:150:57:18

way?

He's a man with a great passion

for the UK. A way of communicating

0:57:180:57:27

which carries further than many

other people. With that comes a

0:57:270:57:31

responsibility to...

Does it concern

you that the Foreign Secretary

0:57:310:57:38

reaches so readily for what people

call insulting stereotypes?

Well,

0:57:380:57:45

those are not the terms I would use.

That is the point I am making.

Would

0:57:450:57:52

you prefer him to be a host of have

I got news for you?

It's not for me.

0:57:520:57:59

You must have a view. The great

privilege

Vy to serve my country

0:57:590:58:04

over the last 15 ways, occasionally

in diplomatic roles. I am merely

0:58:040:58:07

saying how I would do it and expect

Foreign Office officials to do it.

0:58:070:58:14

Are you embarrassed by him.

I am

very pleased we have a Government

0:58:140:58:18

with a lot of talent.

In European capitals, do you think

0:58:180:58:22

they consider him a a foon?

I cannot

-- bafoon? I can not tell you what

0:58:220:58:29

people tell me. We have a range of

ministers who can speak effectively

0:58:290:58:35

to our European partners.

0:58:350:58:36

That's all for today.

0:58:410:58:44

Andrew will be on BBC One

this evening for This

0:58:440:58:46

Week, where he'll be

0:58:460:58:47

joined by Michael Portillo,

Harriet Harman, Shazia Mirza,

0:58:470:58:51

And I'll be back at noon tomorrow.

0:58:510:58:53

Bye-bye.

0:58:530:58:57

Jo Coburn is joined by chair of the Foreign Affairs Select Committee, Tom Tugendhat to discuss Michael Fallon's resignation from the Ministry of Defence and whether Tom would like the job. Also there is analysis of a possible interest rate rise and a look at the implications for the government of having to publish their Brexit impact studies after Labour secured a Commons victory.


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