21/11/2017 Daily Politics


21/11/2017

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LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to

the Daily Politics.

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More money is being offered

by Theresa May to break the deadlock

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in the Brexit negotiations,

but will it keep

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everyone happy at home?

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One key sticking point in the talks

is the Northern Irish border.

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we'll speak to the Democratic

Unionist Party on how

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a solution might be found.

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In case you hadn't realised,

tomorrow is budget day.

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Many economists are warning

more must be done to

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improve productivity.

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So what needs to be done

to get the economy going?

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And the art of a good deal.

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Donald Trump says

he's an expert at it.

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What about our own politicians?

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We'll look at how to get the best

out of political negotiations.

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All that in the next hour.

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With us for the whole

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of the programme today is the DUP's

deputy leader Nigel Dodds.

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Welcome to the show.

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First this morning, it appears

Theresa May has managed

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to get her ministers

to agree on something.

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What's more,

it's concerning Brexit.

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At a special Brexit Cabinet meeting

last night it was decided to offer

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more money to the European Union

in order to break the

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deadlock in the talks.

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The proposal is conditional on the

negotiations moving onto trade.

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Here is what David Davis said this

morning. It is clear in negotiating

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rounds that we need to start talking

about future negotiation

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relationships.

The Northern Ireland

border cannot be fully addressed if

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we don't take into account the

future partnership with the European

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Union. The final resolution on

financial settlement depends on it

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because nothing is agreed until

everything is agreed. It might be a

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familiar phrase to some of you, and

the future of Europe requires a

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satisfactory resolution to the

critical economic issues at stake

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and we are ready to begin the

conversation about the future

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partnership as soon as the European

Union is.

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Do you support the agreement to up

the offer of money to the EU to 40

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billion to unlock the negotiations?

We've always supported the UK

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Government meeting obligations and

commitments and we would like to see

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it set out, the commitments that we

are legally obliged to pay, what are

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the pensions arrangements and what

are the commitments in terms of the

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budget. We don't believe in paying

for access to the single market.

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Other countries like the US do, so

we don't see why we should. But this

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is a negotiation. And as I

understand it no figure was

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discussed in Cabinet so I await with

interest to see the way the

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negotiation takes place.

What would

you like to see upfront at this

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stage? The government, David Davis,

have spoken about there being

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concrete proposals from the EU, a

response before that money is given.

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What conditions would you like to

see attached?

I think we need a firm

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assurance we will move to the next

phase of discussions on the trade

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deal that needs to happen because

Northern Ireland, on the border

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issue, and on the financial

settlement, as he said, and he's

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quite right, nothing is agreed until

everything is agreed and we need to

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see the whole package in the round.

Therefore the EU, and certainly the

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Irish, if they are encouraging the

EU in this, they are doing

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themselves a great disservice by

holding back talks on the trade

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deal.

They say it is held back

because the UK Government has not

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given on the divorce settlement. Do

you think the offer should be on the

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table first before and taken on

faith that Michel Barnier will move?

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The Prime Minister in the Florent

speech put an offer on the table and

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clearly what is going on is a haggle

for money and that is what it comes

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down to. Clearly Brussels would like

to use the leverage of moving the

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trade deal to extract more money.

The government is right to take a

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cautious approach. This is the

biggest card we have to play and the

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EU will suffer a massive in the

budget going forward, and it would

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be madness to commit a firm figure

upfront in terms of the final deal

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at this stage.

Are you happy to see

a continued role for the European

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Court of Justice during the

fermentation period?

We are clear

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that as long as it is an

implementation period with a fixed

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date for a final withdrawal, and we

know it will happen in 2019 in

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March, but this implementation

period, we take the view that

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whatever happens with the transition

is a matter for negotiation and we

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will judge it and we are not

doctrinally on the issue, as long,

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at the end of the day, after a

defined period, we are free in terms

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of making our own laws, controlling

borders and money. Those are the key

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issues for us.

Would you entertain

the idea of the ECJ continuing in

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some role, overseeing the rights of

EU citizens in the UK beyond

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transition?

I think that is a

difficult one. I think we have voted

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to leave the EU and the jurisdiction

of European law. To continue to have

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a role for the European Court of

Justice in setting laws or rules

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about immigration, or whatever it

might be, would be contrary to the

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expressed view of the people in the

referendum.

Is it a red line for

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you? We are careful when it comes to

negotiations when it comes to read

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lines.

All of it needs to be looked

at in the round in terms of the

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overall package but we are clear

that one of the objectives should

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clearly be getting rid of the

European jurisdiction of the bodies

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there, including the European Court

of Justice intervention in the

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affairs of the UK.

It was decided

that it was part of getting a good

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trade deal, would you not do it?

Let's see the outcome.

Is this an

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ideal time, bearing in mind what is

happening in Germany and Angela

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Merkel's failure to create a

coalition government, is this an

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ideal time to exploit German

political weaknesses and withhold

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any more money?

I think it is

interesting what is going on because

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Germany is in an unprecedented

position. But I think Angela Merkel

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is the Chancellor and she will give

direction to Germany's input into

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the talks and in the relationship

with Michel Barnier and all the rest

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of it. My view is that we need to be

sensible about this. I think talking

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about exploiting Germany's weakness

on the helpful.

Could it work in the

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favour of the UK?

We need to adopt a

sophisticated approach to this by

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saying we are prepared to meet our

obligations and commitments in the

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context of reciprocal guarantees,

whether or not Angela Merkel is

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another minority position or a limbo

position in terms of transitioning

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or whether she has a majority

coalition or not.

But is this an

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opportunity for the UK, her

weakness?

I am not sure that it

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necessarily will be, because at the

end of the day Angela Merkel remains

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Chancellor and in charge of the

negotiations.

All right.

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Now it's time for our daily quiz.

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Yesterday saw the decision

to relocate the European Medicines

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Agency to Amsterdam -

after the European Banking Authority

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was confirmed to be moving to Paris.

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Both agencies will leave

London after Brexit.

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But with stiff competition

between EU cities and several rounds

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of voting, how was the deadlock

on the European Medicines Agency

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eventually broken?

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Was it a coin toss?

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A tug of war?

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A game of rock-paper-scissors?

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Or a game of five-a-side?

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At the end of the show, Nigel

will give us the correct answer.

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One of the big sticking points

in the Brexit negotiations

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is the issue of what to do

with the border in Northern Ireland.

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Currently there is an invisible

border between Ireland

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and Northern Ireland.

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The European Union has said

throughout negotiations there should

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be no return to a 'hard

border' after Brexit.

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And the UK Government agrees -

and has said it is also aiming

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for a deal which will

avoid any physical

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infrastructure at the border.

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But the EU and Dublin doesn't see

how that can work as the UK has

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committed to leaving the customs

union and the single market.

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On Friday Irish Prime Minister,

Leo Varadkar demanded a written

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commitment from the UK

that there would be no hard border

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between the two countries,

before trade talks can begin.

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And a recent European Commission

paper implied the only way a hard

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border could be avoided

was for Northern Ireland to remain

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inside, or as close to as possible,

the EU customs union

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and single market.

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This would take the border off

the island and place

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it in the Irish Sea -

between the rest of the UK

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and Northern Ireland.

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The DUP, who support

the Conservative on key issues, say

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a border between Northern Ireland

and the rest of the UK

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is "just not acceptable".

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And Brexit Secretary David Davis has

also rejected the proposals -

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saying he wants to preserve

the constitutional and economic

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integrity of the United Kingdom.

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The UK Government and the DUP

want to keep the border where it is.

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David Davis has suggested that

a new, undefined customs arrangement

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using technology such as trusted

trade schemes to create

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a 'light-touch' border,

will avoid a hard border.

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Joining me now is the

Shadow Northern Ireland

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Secretary Owen Smith.

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You said Northern Ireland could

remain part of the EU so should it

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be in the sea?

I agree with Brussels

right now that the only way I can

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see us is practically avoiding the

problem of the hardboard are coming

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back in Northern Ireland, between

Northern Ireland and the Republic,

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and we concede that would be very

damaging to the very difficult and

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hard-won peace process we have in

Northern Ireland.

Do you accept it

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is a solution?

It is if you want to

separate Northern Ireland from the

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rest of the UK and you think damage

to the economy of Northern Ireland,

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and you believe in a project about

following the EU position on the

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customs union. The reality is, and

if you talk to some of the leading

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remain people in Northern Ireland on

the business front, the people who

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run the ports, yes, we want to stay

in the European Union, but now we

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are leaving, to create a border

between Northern Ireland and the

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rest of the UK where three quarters

of our trade is with the United

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Kingdom would be madness. Never mind

the political consequences. If you

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care about business, jobs and

investment, you will do nothing

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which cuts Northern Ireland off,

between the UK and the rest of the

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EU.

When the UK Government say they

are not prepared to discuss the

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economic and constitutional

integrity of the UK, what you say to

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this?

I don't think it will

challenge the constitutional

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integrity as Northern Ireland will

remain part of the UK. I completely

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agree that nothing can change that

it is by consent from the people of

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Ireland and Northern Ireland.

What

about the economic argument?

I think

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we are talking about the least worst

option. In either regard we will end

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up doing economic damage to Northern

Ireland. That is my view on where

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this is likely to lead. The question

is, which damage trumps which. My

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view is that the principal danger we

face is reintroducing a hard border

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between North and South, with all of

the political problems I think that

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will potentially give rise to and

that has to be avoided above all

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else. That is my view and the view

of many people.

It seems that the

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political considerations are above

the economic considerations. In my

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view both of them are important, but

the economic one, whether you are

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nationalist or unionist, people want

to ensure that you have a good

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future and there is good trade. To

cut yourself off and create

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differences and barriers between

trade of your biggest traders, that

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is economic vandalism. In terms of

the political side of it, the

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British government in its August

paper on Ireland and the border put

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forward practical solutions. Radical

solutions which ended Kenny was

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working on and when Leo Varadkar, he

stopped the work on the practical

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solutions, when he came in. He wants

to keep the whole of the UK in the

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customs union, and I understand that

that is good for the Republic of

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Ireland but that isn't going to

happen.

How difficult do you think

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the Irish government is being on

this? When I interviewed one of the

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MEPs, she said it would be

traumatising for Ireland if there is

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anything that destroys that

relationship between Northern

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Ireland and Ireland and she says

that is what you are doing.

It was

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the Irish Republic who decided to

break with sterling, that parity we

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had, and the Irish government

decided to create that union and

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create barriers between the South

and Northern Ireland in terms of

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currency and they're all sorts of

differences. Our view is that we

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need to work together. The Irish are

in grave danger of doing damage

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their own industry and the Irish

farmers Association came out to

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criticise Leo Varadkar, saying that

what you'll end up doing is that the

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EE you and Ireland, creating that

hard border, cutting us off from the

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GB market.

But the farmers also said

there should not be a hard border on

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the island. They've united with the

trade and business leaders.

But we

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are not the ones putting it up

there.

We have to make sure we have

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a practical to solution taking it

forward. David Davis brought forward

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sums solutions and then rode

backwards and said we could not have

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a technical fix.

Let's talk about

the practicalities. There is an

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issue because there are so many

people, Wise heads, who say that

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technological solutions will do it

but they say that won't work and

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there has to be a way of checking

customs and goods and having

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regulatory equivalents, and the

easiest way in the eyes of the EU

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would be to keep Northern Ireland in

the customs union. What is your

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solution if technology is not going

to cure all, what else is there?

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Let's be careful.

David Davis wrote

back on the issue that was about a

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new preferred customs arrangement

and said there were difficulties but

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on the technology side, go to Sweden

and Norway. They are inside the

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single market, but outside the

customs union. Go to Switzerland,

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evidence given by the authorities

and there are technological

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solutions, so the idea it cannot

work is wrong. If we get a free

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trade deal and move on to the second

phase and get a tower if free deal,

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we will not have to worry so much

about this. Bowen, I hope and his

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MEPs in Brussels. Voting against

moving to the second stage of talks

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and actually get on and support the

British Government's view it is

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necessary because until we get to

the second stage we cannot get to a

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final deal.

Have you got Brussels'

backing for the idea of Northern

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Ireland remaining part of the EU?

I

have not asked for it. What I am

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trying to point out is there has to

be a practical solution that avoids

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a hard border on the island of

Ireland. Northern Ireland remains as

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close to part of the customs union

as is possible and I don't think

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that damages the constitutional

integrity of the UK nor offers put

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-- political advantage to Brussels.

Then simply transfer to the border

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of Northern Ireland and the UK...

If

we were to end up with a border down

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the Irish Sea, how difficult would

it be?

It went. The government has

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been clear and we are clear because

both politically and economically,

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it would be catastrophic. It would

be catastrophic economic theory

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because businesses, trade with the

rest...

What assurances have you had

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from the government? Would it be so

important that you would be prepared

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to pull out of the confidence and

supply motion?

It would be gravely

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destabilising to the government and

they know that but secondly it would

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be gravely destabilising to Northern

Ireland. Barry is going into words

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because market would be disastrous.

From the political point of view it

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will not happen.

As you said early

in our discussion politics in a

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negotiation is important and the

government said it was not prepared

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to move further than the Florence

speech amount of money and it has

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moved and there could be a situation

where they say they will seek some

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sort of regulatory equivalence for

Northern Ireland and Ireland and if

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that happened, would you pull out of

that agreement?

This is the Lee

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Varadkar idea that you do not stay

in the customs union and single

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market but mirror everything. Which

would lead to greater difference and

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it would be Northern Ireland economy

and the rest of the UK and that is

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not acceptable and the government

know it would be a red line for the

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DUP.

If Brexit talks collapsed as a

result of what some critics might

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say would be your intransigence,

there could be another general

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election.

Is that something you

would like to see? We are committed

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to supporting the government in its

main objectives of achieving Brexit

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and the security and stability the

country needs and I am confident the

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government will get to that.

You do

not think the pressure you will

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exert to make sure the government

sticks to what it has promised in

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terms of Northern Ireland would not

collapse? A general election could

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bring an alternative government.

We

do not have to exert pressure on

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this.

There is not going to be any

move towards what you're suggesting

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as a result.

We do not know that

because we are in fluid negotiations

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and I agree with Nigel, we need to

move to the next stage and I hope we

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will make progress, because it has

been disastrously slow. Nigel

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revealed, he used the word

intransigence, but he is revealing

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it is politics driving his position.

I have pointed out the economic. Leo

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Varadkar offered a simple and

practical way in which we could

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solve problems but the DUP are not

prepared... They feel it changes the

0:19:410:19:47

nature of Northern Ireland within

the union.

You have yet to address

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and you have not answered the

central point, what do you do about

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most of the trade going to the UK?

You would want to create a barrier

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in terms of customs differences and

regulation tariffs between Northern

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Ireland where most of the trade goes

to the UK. You do not even want to

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address that.

Let him address it.

Millions of pieces of trade occur

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between Ireland north and south and

the huge Mac goes from the south

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through the North into GB and huge

amounts of trade goes from within

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the UK between Northern Ireland and

GB and that is true. Whatever way

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around we solve the problem we

aren't going to see in my view a

0:20:330:20:38

lessening of the economic

performance of Northern Ireland,

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indeed of the UK and that is the

reality. We have to get right the

0:20:410:20:48

perspective on Northern Ireland, not

returning to a problem with a border

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dividing the island that gave rise

to conflict in Northern Ireland. The

0:20:520:20:56

answer is the politics has to trump

the economics because the danger in

0:20:560:21:02

Northern Ireland is so great. The

politics and a political solution

0:21:020:21:07

have to come first.

Why do you see

the DUP as the block in this, isn't

0:21:070:21:11

it the government to hold the same

position, or are you say they are

0:21:110:21:15

blocking the government moving on?

I

am not sure they hold the same

0:21:150:21:23

position. I think you can get a

large bit of paper between what they

0:21:230:21:25

have said and what Nigel has said

and we do not yet know where the

0:21:250:21:28

government are going to land on this

and it may there is a compromise to

0:21:280:21:31

be found that is unique, special

status for Northern Ireland

0:21:310:21:36

reflecting the unique nature of the

Good Friday Agreement.

That could

0:21:360:21:41

result in the DUP pulling support?

That is not our concern, that is for

0:21:410:21:45

the DUP and government to worry

about. My concern is maintaining the

0:21:450:21:50

cost Jewish and integrity of the UK

and making sure Northern Ireland and

0:21:500:21:54

the Republic do not a hard border.

Arlene Foster accuse the government

0:21:540:22:01

of using the issue is blackmail in

the Brexit negotiations. Why should

0:22:010:22:06

the Irish public not comment?

I have

no problem on the Irish government

0:22:060:22:11

standing up for its own position and

national interests. What I have

0:22:110:22:16

problems with is people who

represent the UK and UK parties,

0:22:160:22:20

they back the Irish against the

interests of their own people. So

0:22:200:22:28

that the Irish can have free access

to Northern Ireland. Let's create a

0:22:280:22:32

barrier between Northern Ireland and

the rest of the UK...

Northern

0:22:320:22:35

Ireland voted to remain.

In the

referendum. As did London and as did

0:22:350:22:42

other regions of the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom is one country.

0:22:420:22:48

Representing the people in the way

you expressed you could say you are

0:22:480:22:51

out of step with the views in

Northern Ireland.

I could point to

0:22:510:22:55

constituencies in Northern Ireland

that voted to leave. We could all

0:22:550:23:02

drill down into micro-areas and

regions. This was a UK national

0:23:020:23:07

referendum and as we joined the EU

we will leave together and there is

0:23:070:23:13

talk about the DUP and government,

we are on the same page and the

0:23:130:23:17

Prime Minister made clear today and

David Davis has spelt it out and

0:23:170:23:21

James Brokenshire in Brussels made a

strong speech because they recognise

0:23:210:23:25

that it would do such economic

damage to Northern Ireland it would

0:23:250:23:29

be inconceivable.

What did you think

when the Labour Party front bench

0:23:290:23:33

walked through the lobby with the

Tories yesterday in voting down a

0:23:330:23:37

bid to keep Britain in the single

market and customs union?

I was back

0:23:370:23:42

in my constituency on business but

my understanding is it was a one

0:23:420:23:50

line whip and a couple of members of

Labour Party front bench walking

0:23:500:23:53

through the lobbies. The important

ones.

Not our Brexit Secretary.

But

0:23:530:23:57

John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn. My

view is we should be in the customs

0:23:570:24:02

union for the transitional period

and that Northern Ireland should be

0:24:020:24:07

in the customs union or something

akin to it and I would have been

0:24:070:24:10

tempted to vote for the amendment

had I been there but as I understand

0:24:100:24:14

it I would be free to do that.

Was

it a betrayal by the front bench to

0:24:140:24:19

go through the lobby with the

Tories?

I do not think so but people

0:24:190:24:23

have different views in different

parties and that was reflected in

0:24:230:24:27

last night's vote.

0:24:270:24:30

So, today, we're covering

sorting out Brexit and

0:24:300:24:32

the Northern Ireland Assembly,

both tough jobs but spare a thought

0:24:320:24:35

for someone with another tricky one.

0:24:350:24:37

Richard Leonard was elected leader

of the Scottish Labour

0:24:370:24:39

party over the weekend,

and squeezed between Nicola

0:24:390:24:41

Sturgeon's SNP and a resurgent

Scottish Conservative Party under

0:24:410:24:43

Ruth Davidson, he has quite a task

to turn his party's fortunes around.

0:24:430:24:47

Just to make life harder for himself

he's now admitted he would support

0:24:470:24:50

England over Scotland in football

or rugby, he clearly

0:24:500:24:52

doesn't like an easy life.

0:24:520:24:54

And I'm pleased to

say Richard Leonard

0:24:540:24:55

joins me now from Edinburgh.

0:24:550:25:05

Welcome. To win big in Scotland you

need to win back Labour's old

0:25:060:25:15

heartlands in Glasgow and

Lanarkshire. How does a privately

0:25:150:25:18

educated England supporter do that?

My response was to a question in

0:25:180:25:23

which I thought it was right to give

an honest answer and so it may not

0:25:230:25:28

be popular in all circles but I

thought it was the right thing to

0:25:280:25:32

do. The reason why I have been

elected as leader of the Scottish

0:25:320:25:39

Labour Party is because I stood on a

radical programme calling for an

0:25:390:25:44

extension of public ownership and

ends to austerity and a

0:25:440:25:48

redistribution not just of wealth

but power. Those were traditional

0:25:480:25:53

Labour messages perhaps, and once

that which have their roots in a

0:25:530:25:58

manifesto which we fought the

general election and people are

0:25:580:26:02

turning to the Labour Party in

Scotland more as a party that

0:26:020:26:05

represents the hope of a different

future so it is a positive,

0:26:050:26:12

optimistic Labour Party in Scotland

we are building.

Use say the

0:26:120:26:16

Scottish Labour Party will be a

movement for socialism. Are you

0:26:160:26:20

Jeremy Corbyn's man north of the

border?

I am a bit the tooth to be a

0:26:200:26:29

Corbynista. We have both been in the

party a long time and I have been in

0:26:290:26:34

the party 35 years and I have

largely stuck to my views and

0:26:340:26:39

principles and that has meant

occasionally I have been a bit off

0:26:390:26:42

message and maybe out of fashion

occasionally, but I have been

0:26:420:26:48

consistent and that lends

credibility in articulating this

0:26:480:26:52

radical Socialist democratic renewal

of Scotland, which I am looking for.

0:26:520:26:56

That is in line with what Jeremy

Corbyn is doing broadly. Would you

0:26:560:27:02

be prepared to challenge the Labour

leadership and policies put forward

0:27:020:27:06

in London to set your own individual

agenda?

It is not so much an

0:27:060:27:11

individual agenda. It is a Scottish

Labour Party agenda and I have been

0:27:110:27:16

clear the mandate I got at the

weekend was from the membership of

0:27:160:27:21

the Scottish Labour Party and it is

to those members I will be

0:27:210:27:26

accountable, not beholden to any

individual in the Labour Party

0:27:260:27:29

previously and I will not start now.

There have been differences for a

0:27:290:27:37

while in the prospectus offered by

the Scottish Labour Party rather

0:27:370:27:40

than at UK level on things like

taxation where we have argued there

0:27:400:27:44

needs to be a more progressive

approach using powers of the

0:27:440:27:48

Scottish Parliament to combat

austerity.

How does that differ from

0:27:480:27:52

what the SNP are probably going to

do? They have hinted at tax rises.

0:27:520:27:57

There will not be that much to

distinguish you and at the moment

0:27:570:28:02

you are behind, both the Tories and

SNP.

The distinction is this, the

0:28:020:28:12

SNP has been empowered the last ten

years and during that time they have

0:28:120:28:15

instituted a council tax freeze and

almost done nothing to change income

0:28:150:28:19

tax rates and bands and there is now

an opportunity to build a consensus

0:28:190:28:24

in the Scottish Parliament for more

progressive approach of I hope they

0:28:240:28:30

will come along with other parties

including the Labour Party to

0:28:300:28:33

promote that agenda. The distinction

is this, the Scottish Parliament has

0:28:330:28:39

extensive powers, many of which the

SNP has not used in ten years in

0:28:390:28:43

office.

They may be about to do so,

which would blunt your attempt to

0:28:430:28:48

try to grab the initiative. Unity is

important in a party. The public do

0:28:480:28:54

not like this within politics and

you will be the fourth leader of the

0:28:540:28:59

Scottish Labour Party in three years

of most of your colleagues voted for

0:28:590:29:03

your rival in the recent leadership

contest and your predecessor said

0:29:030:29:08

there were internal problems within

Labour, plotting and bullying. How

0:29:080:29:13

will you unite the Scottish Labour

Party?

I will unite the party

0:29:130:29:17

because I have a mandate not just

from the trade union section but

0:29:170:29:22

grassroots membership and I have a

majority and have had a majority of

0:29:220:29:27

members of the Parliamentary Labour

Party from Scotland supporting me. I

0:29:270:29:31

will reach out to all parts of the

party, Parliamentary, local

0:29:310:29:38

government, activists, trade

unionists, and build a unity, but it

0:29:380:29:42

will not be a hollow call for unity

but a unity of purpose and that is

0:29:420:29:48

about building that movement for

real change because after 20 years

0:29:480:29:53

of devolution and ten years of the

SNP in power, people are hungry for

0:29:530:29:58

radical change and are increasingly

turning to the Scottish Labour Party

0:29:580:30:02

to be the vehicle for realising

radical change.

Are you going to

0:30:020:30:08

suspend Kezia Dugdale for taking

part in I'm A Celebrity without

0:30:080:30:13

authorisation?

The group is about to

meet in Holyrood in the next half

0:30:130:30:19

hour and there will be a discussion

at that meeting about our course of

0:30:190:30:23

action on that. I have said already

that I do not support hasty calls

0:30:230:30:29

for Kezia Dugdale's suspension but

it will be a decision taken

0:30:290:30:33

collectively.

0:30:330:30:37

So you will be bound by the decision

if they decide she should be

0:30:370:30:42

suspended?

I will be bound by the

decision the group takes,

0:30:420:30:44

absolutely.

0:30:440:30:46

Nigel Dodds has been a busy man,

this morning he was at Number 10

0:30:460:30:49

discussing the restoration

of the Northern Ireland power

0:30:490:30:51

sharing arrangement.

0:30:510:30:52

The Northern Ireland government

collapsed after the then Deputy

0:30:520:30:54

First Minister Martin McGuinness

resigned over First Minister

0:30:540:30:56

Arlene Foster's role

in a heating subsidy scheme.

0:30:560:30:59

There is now talk of direct rule

from London and last week

0:30:590:31:02

Northern Ireland's budget had to go

through the UK Parliament

0:31:020:31:05

because there was a risk public

services in Northern Ireland

0:31:050:31:11

could run out of money.

0:31:110:31:12

Sinn Fein also met the Prime

Minister this morning,

0:31:120:31:19

and speaking after the

meetings Mrs May said

0:31:190:31:22

She is determined to see the

inaugural Ivan government back in

0:31:220:31:26

action. I've said that the

determination of the government is

0:31:260:31:30

there to make sure we see the

re-establishment of the fully

0:31:300:31:34

functioning, inclusive devolved

administration that works for

0:31:340:31:37

everybody in Northern Ireland. I

have almost -- always said our

0:31:370:31:41

steadfast support for the Belfast

and its successive agreements and

0:31:410:31:46

the leadership of the DUP and Sinn

Fein have committed to seeing

0:31:460:31:50

Stormont back up and running.

0:31:500:31:56

We can get more on this

with Northern Ireland political

0:31:560:31:58

correspondent Gareth Gordon.

0:31:580:31:59

Were there any signs of progress

made this morning in your view?

As

0:31:590:32:05

so often with the Northern Ireland

peace process it is one step

0:32:050:32:09

forward, three steps back. Not that

we've really had a step forward, but

0:32:090:32:12

the interesting thing out of the

Theresa May interview which I

0:32:120:32:16

carried at view minutes ago was that

she said she wanted to see talks

0:32:160:32:19

between Sinn Fein and the DUP resume

next week and that came as something

0:32:190:32:23

of a surprise to us because Sinn

Fein last week said they believed

0:32:230:32:27

the current phase of the talks

process was over and there had

0:32:270:32:32

essentially been four phases which

yielded very little, if anything and

0:32:320:32:36

Sinn Fein said they were prepared to

go into a phase on the same basis.

0:32:360:32:41

The DUP say like they are happy to

go into talks any time anywhere but

0:32:410:32:45

I simply cannot get an answer out of

Sinn Fein yet as to whether or not

0:32:450:32:49

they would be prepared to go back to

talks as soon as next week but I

0:32:490:32:54

would be surprised, as we speak, if

that was the case. Theresa May also

0:32:540:32:58

said she thought that the issues

that divided the party were quite

0:32:580:33:02

narrow, although she was aware of

the challenges. A new challenge

0:33:020:33:07

might have emerged this morning

because Arlene Foster and Nigel

0:33:070:33:09

Dodds came out of the meeting and

criticise what they called the

0:33:090:33:14

glorification of terrorism at the

weekend Sinn Fein annual conference.

0:33:140:33:20

The one where Gerry Adams said he

would stand down as Sinn Fein

0:33:200:33:24

president in the near future. They

said that that would make, if

0:33:240:33:29

anything, a deal to restore

devolution even more difficult.

0:33:290:33:32

Nigel Dodds said things like that

had to stop. Gerry Adams, when it

0:33:320:33:36

was put to him, when he came out, he

said he had not seen the

0:33:360:33:40

glorification of anybody at the Sinn

Fein conference but what he had seen

0:33:400:33:44

was a respectful, comradely

acknowledgement of the role of

0:33:440:33:47

Martin McGuinness. He refuted the

use of the word terrorism and said

0:33:470:33:52

that was pejorative. Whether that is

a storm in a teacup or a more

0:33:520:33:56

serious issue, we have Tousiq, but

it does point out the difficulty of

0:33:560:34:00

getting a deal between these two

parties. -- we have two C.

Let's

0:34:000:34:11

pick up, because Theresa May said

they want talks between you and the

0:34:110:34:15

DUP to resume next week.

Will you do

that? We've made it clear to Theresa

0:34:150:34:19

May today that Sinn Fein will

reflect not just on reflects --

0:34:190:34:23

events of the last few days and

today's discussion but the progress

0:34:230:34:26

of the talks over the last ten

months. We want a deal we want to be

0:34:260:34:33

able to talk but there's no point in

having endless talks for months or

0:34:330:34:36

months with no rhyme or reason or

meaning behind them this is a simple

0:34:360:34:42

solution, for Theresa May to stand

up and ensure that rights are

0:34:420:34:48

delivered to people in Belfast like

they are in London and Liverpool.

0:34:480:34:51

But can you give us a straight

answer as to whether you will meet

0:34:510:34:54

the DUP next week as the Prime

Minister has said you should all

0:34:540:34:58

stop I've given you a straight

answer.

We will reflect as a party

0:34:580:35:01

on the progress of the talks and the

discussion today, the frank and

0:35:010:35:07

robust discussion that the Sinn Fein

leadership had with Theresa May. We

0:35:070:35:13

are open to talks on all sorts of

matters, but let me be clear again

0:35:130:35:17

that we do not want to have endless

talks for months and months. The

0:35:170:35:20

public need confidence in the

process thus far it has not been

0:35:200:35:24

there.

We are getting closer to a

state of direct rule. Just last

0:35:240:35:31

week, the budget passed ball

Northern Ireland by Westminster. Ie

0:35:310:35:35

You really going to hold up

power-sharing over an issue like the

0:35:350:35:39

Irish language act?

It is not Sinn

Fein holding up power-sharing.

The

0:35:390:35:44

DUP said they would do it any time,

anyplace, anywhere. Like the Martini

0:35:440:35:48

ad.

The DUP needs to stand up, and

as I said before my first answer,

0:35:480:35:56

deliver rights to all of the people

across these islands. It is

0:35:560:36:00

absolutely not sustainable that

people in the north of Ireland do

0:36:000:36:03

not have the same rights as they do

in places like London, Liverpool,

0:36:030:36:06

Edinburgh and Dublin. It is not

sustainable going forward. To

0:36:060:36:10

suggest that Sinn Fein is holding up

power-sharing is not an accurate

0:36:100:36:14

reading.

So how do you envisage this

ending in anything other than direct

0:36:140:36:23

rule currently?

Theresa May publicly

said today that she is committed to

0:36:230:36:25

the previous agreements.

And you are

talking about the agreement to

0:36:250:36:32

introduce an Irish language act?

We

are talking about the agreement

0:36:320:36:37

about protection for the Irish

language that was made. We have

0:36:370:36:41

issues around marriage equality, and

is DUP and Tory access has been

0:36:410:36:45

regressive for politics in the area

of Northern Ireland. We are talking

0:36:450:36:50

about rights being held up by a

group of religious zealots that

0:36:500:36:54

block progress in society. People

are simply not content to move

0:36:540:36:58

forward like this and that is the

expression Sinn Fein has given to

0:36:580:37:02

the debate.

Except you could argue

that that access you say is

0:37:020:37:08

regressive has delivered 50 million

extra pounds to health and education

0:37:080:37:12

across Northern Ireland. Is that

something to be celebrated?

Any

0:37:120:37:15

additional funds into our resources

are to be welcomed but it has to be

0:37:150:37:21

put on record that the Tories since

2010 have gutted our public

0:37:210:37:25

expenditure, so to suggest that

being given money is good, you have

0:37:250:37:31

to look at the whole picture.

Do you

accept that the SDLP leader Colin

0:37:310:37:42

Eastwood says it would be poor

negotiating if Northern Ireland ends

0:37:420:37:47

up with direct rule. He's not wrong,

is he?

The Irish government and Sinn

0:37:470:37:55

Fein have also given the agreements

were previously reached that direct

0:37:550:37:58

rule is unacceptable. Direct rule is

not a consequence of the negotiating

0:37:580:38:03

position. We are talking about

rights that have been demanded by

0:38:030:38:07

White sections of the community and

it's the Tories and DUP who are

0:38:070:38:10

blocking rights that people have in

Liverpool, Edinburgh, Dublin and

0:38:100:38:16

London, but people in Belfast or

not. That's not sustainable going

0:38:160:38:21

forward.

What you say about the

criticism on the glorification of

0:38:210:38:24

terrorism conference recently making

the deal more difficult?

I was at

0:38:240:38:30

the conference and I did not

recognise this at all. I think it is

0:38:300:38:34

important to remember that we are

only a few weeks pass Remembrance

0:38:340:38:37

Sunday here where MPs of all

persuasions stood in remembrance of

0:38:370:38:40

those in the British Armed Forces,

so it would be hypocritical to

0:38:400:38:47

suggest that MPs and political

parties can do that, and Irish

0:38:470:38:51

people cannot stand with the same

remembrance and dignity and respect

0:38:510:38:55

for their dead as well. I think a

little bit of common sense needs to

0:38:550:38:59

be brought in.

Chris, thank you very

much. Nigel Dodds, you were shaking

0:38:590:39:03

your head.

I think the public will

have heard Chris Hazard of Sinn Fein

0:39:030:39:09

make an equivalence between the dead

who served in the police services

0:39:090:39:13

and the armies in world Wars to

secure liberal freedom to be equated

0:39:130:39:18

with IRA terrorists. There is no

equivalence between those two groups

0:39:180:39:22

of people. It really saddens me to

hear people in 2017 talk like that.

0:39:220:39:27

And that is one of the problems.

Chris is talking about not seeing

0:39:270:39:32

any glorification of terrorism at

the conference but there was video

0:39:320:39:36

played where the new MP for foil and

others stood up and praised Martin

0:39:360:39:40

McGuinness's role in the IRA and

said the rebels and it got the

0:39:400:39:44

biggest cheer of the weekend. This

denial. Gerry Adams said he resented

0:39:440:39:51

the term terrorism. You talk about

rights...

But they have a right to

0:39:510:39:57

have the same rights as expressed

there. Your party signed up to the

0:39:570:40:02

St Andrews agreement and it

contains, in black and white, a

0:40:020:40:06

provision for the introduction of an

Irish language act, so why don't you

0:40:060:40:11

honour the commitment?

First of all,

the rights he talks about are for

0:40:110:40:14

the Northern Ireland assembly and we

do not have any veto, so get the

0:40:140:40:18

assembly running and we can get them

up and running. In terms of the

0:40:180:40:22

Irish language act, that was a

commitment by the British

0:40:220:40:24

government, not by us. We played no

role in that commitment. That is for

0:40:240:40:29

the British government of the day,

Tony Blair, Peter Hain, to answer

0:40:290:40:34

for their commitments.

So you are

not going to one that? You don't

0:40:340:40:38

support the idea of an Irish

language act? So you are blocking as

0:40:380:40:43

a totemic issue, preventing

power-sharing?

We offered a way

0:40:430:40:46

forward which was illegal and

balanced approach. There are two

0:40:460:40:50

communities and cultures in the

Irish community, and we have said

0:40:500:40:56

that on cultural issues, identity

issues there needs to be parity

0:40:560:40:59

legislation for both. Sinn Fein want

a one-sided agreement come and that

0:40:590:41:05

is not fair.

But they were promised

it. You say it was a side issue and

0:41:050:41:09

you weren't involved, so they were

promised it, so can you see why it's

0:41:090:41:12

an important issue?

I can see why

they feel they were outmanoeuvred

0:41:120:41:17

and out negotiated by Tony Blair and

those men of the day, but that is

0:41:170:41:22

their problem. We have entered into

agreements in things with them that

0:41:220:41:26

we have honoured. Sinn Fein never

raised the issue of the Irish

0:41:260:41:31

language with us. They never put it

into the draft programme of

0:41:310:41:34

government. This has emerged as an

issue. Some of us believe this as a

0:41:340:41:40

fundamental point that Sinn Fein,

and you heard him equivocating about

0:41:400:41:43

getting back into talks but he

wouldn't give a guarantee.

Because

0:41:430:41:46

he says there have been talks about

talks and you have not moved and

0:41:460:41:51

that is because, he will say,

perhaps there is a feeling on the

0:41:510:41:56

DUP side that you are happy to go to

direct rule.

We want devolution and

0:41:560:41:59

think it is in the best way forward.

I've been in a devolved government.

0:41:590:42:05

Would you be happy with direct rule?

But you wouldn't be unhappy?

We

0:42:050:42:10

think it's not the best option but

it's interesting to hear Chris

0:42:100:42:15

saying the government should

implement their agreements in terms

0:42:150:42:17

of the Irish language, which is

direct rule, but he says that is

0:42:170:42:21

unacceptable. They all over the

place. But what is happening in Sinn

0:42:210:42:25

Fein is they have their eyes on the

southern election in the Irish

0:42:250:42:28

Republic and people in the

leadership simply want to sit out

0:42:280:42:32

Brexit and sit out difficult

decisions at Store Montt and keep

0:42:320:42:35

the devolved institutions down until

they get the Irish election out of

0:42:350:42:39

way -- Stormont.

Do you accept the

deal with the Conservative Party,

0:42:390:42:44

the confidence and supply agreement

has yielded extra money and he

0:42:440:42:47

accepted that, but has also been to

the detriment when it comes to

0:42:470:42:53

power-sharing, to getting the two

sides back together? He called the

0:42:530:42:56

axis regressive. I forget his exact

words but pandering to religious

0:42:560:43:01

zealots. What do you say to that?

It

is nonsense. The deal we have done

0:43:010:43:07

to the Conservative Party is about

getting infrastructure, health and

0:43:070:43:11

education spending for all

communities in Northern Ireland.

0:43:110:43:13

Money that will help mental health

and deprived communities.

But you

0:43:130:43:18

are signing up to the Conservative

cuts that Chris was talking about?

0:43:180:43:21

No we are not. When you get £1.5

billion to stop senior citizens

0:43:210:43:27

having the benefit cuts and ensuring

pay cap is lifted for nurses and

0:43:270:43:30

make sure there is movement on

tuition fees, that's not an agenda

0:43:300:43:35

for austerity. That's an agenda that

shows the DUP is delivering not only

0:43:350:43:38

from Northern Ireland but the nation

as well.

Just finally, it is true if

0:43:380:43:44

Jeremy Corbyn was in number ten you

would find it rather more urgent to

0:43:440:43:47

get back to Stormont?

We for

devolution now. We wanted to happen

0:43:470:43:52

now. We not the ones up barriers.

But a different leader in Number ten

0:43:520:43:58

would focus your mind?

We are

focusing on what will happen in what

0:43:580:44:03

is going to happen in the next few

years, and we are confident that

0:44:030:44:07

prospect will not arise.

0:44:070:44:10

Productivity, or more

precisely the lack of it,

0:44:100:44:12

is one of the great problems

of the British economy

0:44:120:44:14

at the moment.

0:44:140:44:16

The amount of stuff that the UK

can produce per person,

0:44:160:44:18

per hour has been stagnant

for sometime, and is particularly

0:44:180:44:21

poor compared to our international

competitors like Germany and the US.

0:44:210:44:23

So what's holding us back?

0:44:230:44:24

Emma Vardy's been taking a look.

0:44:240:44:28

It's called the productivity gap.

0:44:280:44:31

If you measure how much each

employee makes over a period

0:44:310:44:35

of time, it takes a German worker

four days to produce what a British

0:44:350:44:39

worker makes in five.

0:44:390:44:42

And it's been puzzling economists

and politicians for years.

0:44:420:44:47

Productivity is the most important

thing in the economy.

0:44:470:44:50

Productivity is why we are rich

and some places are poor and it's

0:44:500:44:53

why we're rich now and in the past

people used to starve to death.

0:44:530:44:57

Over the last 200 years productivity

has grown about 2% a year and it's

0:44:570:45:00

just stopped over the last ten years

and we don't really know why.

0:45:000:45:03

Think of Britain like

a giant car-wash business.

0:45:030:45:05

Broadly speaking, productivity

is often higher when industries

0:45:050:45:10

use machinery to make

jobs more efficient.

0:45:100:45:14

But where companies opt instead

for a greater use of people power,

0:45:140:45:18

and efficiency is reduced,

productivity will be lower.

0:45:180:45:23

There are ways to increase

productivity, such as investing

0:45:230:45:25

in new equipment, or adopting

new processes so workers can improve

0:45:250:45:27

the speed and quality

of what they're doing.

0:45:270:45:34

Economists believe Britain's poor

productivity could in part be down

0:45:340:45:37

to the supply of cheap Labour.

0:45:370:45:38

Because, in uncertain times,

employers are choosing cheap

0:45:380:45:40

and disposable man-hours over

the capital cost of new equipment.

0:45:400:45:45

And there is a huge

difference depending

0:45:450:45:47

on where you are in the country.

0:45:470:45:53

If you look at the greater

south-east, it's 44% more productive

0:45:530:45:58

than the rest of the UK,

so quite a substantive.

0:45:580:46:00

And when you get into our cities,

places like Slough and London

0:46:000:46:03

are nearly twice as productive

as places like

0:46:030:46:05

Doncaster and Swansea.

0:46:050:46:06

East London is the UK's

most productive area,

0:46:060:46:08

partly down to high productivity

rates from banks in the city.

0:46:080:46:13

For me, the biggest

problem is housing.

0:46:130:46:15

People can earn a lot more

and produce a lot more doing

0:46:150:46:18

the same job in a more high-growth

area, whether that is a Uber driver,

0:46:180:46:22

plumber, a small business,

or a solicitor even.

0:46:220:46:24

But the high rents in places

like London, Oxford,

0:46:240:46:26

Cambridge, Brighton,

and other places people

0:46:260:46:27

want to move to are dissuading

them from increasing

0:46:270:46:31

their own productivity.

0:46:310:46:33

Solving the productivity gap

in the UK won't be easy.

0:46:330:46:36

And could face another setback

if trade is disrupted after Brexit.

0:46:360:46:40

Experts say there is no single

solution, but a whole range

0:46:400:46:44

of things we need to address

simultaneously, if we want to see

0:46:440:46:46

the amount of stuff we produce

per person per day,

0:46:460:46:49

per year, go watch.

0:46:490:46:55

It's not so much the policies that

we've got, whether it is R&D

0:46:550:46:58

and innovation, or transport

or housing and skills.

0:46:580:47:01

What really matters is how we bring

those together and that's why

0:47:010:47:04

I think we need to see our cities

as the platform, the means

0:47:040:47:07

by which we can bring more

of these things together.

0:47:070:47:09

That's why thinking about things

such as Metro Mayors has been

0:47:090:47:15

an important element

of the industrial strategy

0:47:150:47:17

and productivity response.

0:47:170:47:18

It is the mix and the magic,

by bringing those things together,

0:47:180:47:21

that actually will get some

of the benefits we desire.

0:47:210:47:23

It is sort of a perfect

storm hitting now.

0:47:230:47:25

It is one of the reasons why

politics feels quite

0:47:250:47:28

nasty at the moment,

because when you have

0:47:280:47:30

productivity growth,

everyone's getting richer,

0:47:300:47:31

there's lots of things

to spread around.

0:47:310:47:33

When you haven't got

productivity growth,

0:47:330:47:34

wages aren't going up and there's

a lot of people at

0:47:340:47:37

each other's throats.

0:47:370:47:38

Over the long-term,

economists expect productivity

0:47:380:47:39

to eventually recover.

0:47:390:47:40

But it's a question of how long

we'll have to wait for that.

0:47:400:47:47

Watching that was TUC

General Secretary Francis O'Grady

0:47:470:47:50

and Tej Parikh who's a senior

economist at the Institute

0:47:500:47:53

for Directors.

0:47:530:47:55

Welcome. Productivity, 22% less than

the US and 23% weaker than in France

0:47:550:48:06

and 26% less than the Germans, can

it get worse?

There is a number of

0:48:060:48:12

things to look at with this puzzle,

a tendency to simplify it down to a

0:48:120:48:17

set of specific solutions. We need a

ballistic and long-term approach

0:48:170:48:23

when we look at productivity.

Can we

afford that? We have had low levels

0:48:230:48:28

for some time.

There are ways to

boost productivity. In our

0:48:280:48:36

consultation we are looking at ways

to boost investment in the private

0:48:360:48:40

sector and one way to do that is to

raise the investment allowance for

0:48:400:48:47

firms to replace Plant and key types

of capital.

Why are your members not

0:48:470:48:53

investing now? Is it not their fault

there has been a lack of investment

0:48:530:49:01

over recent years? You could say

workers are lazy, but isn't it down

0:49:010:49:07

to poor management and lack of

investment?

Management is an issue

0:49:070:49:11

and businesses need to look at

organisational structure in trying

0:49:110:49:15

to boost Labour efficiency and wider

productivity but it is looking at

0:49:150:49:20

wider economic environment. There is

a high level of economic uncertainty

0:49:200:49:24

at the moment which makes it

difficult for businesses to plan

0:49:240:49:27

ahead and that means it is harder to

invest in technology and people.

0:49:270:49:33

What needs to be done is to provide

greater certainty and also support

0:49:330:49:38

for businesses.

France is more

efficient in production but the

0:49:380:49:45

trade-off is it employs few of them

and their unemployment rate is 9.6%

0:49:450:49:51

compared to 4.3% of the UK. Is it a

trade-off worth making?

It is not

0:49:510:49:57

the trade-off you need to make. The

three problems for the UK, that have

0:49:570:50:03

run years before Brexit, but Brexit

is creating more uncertainty,

0:50:030:50:08

long-running problem of

underinvestment public and private,

0:50:080:50:11

in the bottom three alongside

Portugal and Greece and secondly

0:50:110:50:16

Labour is too cheap and we would

like to see the minimum wage closer

0:50:160:50:20

to the London living wage of £10 20

an hour. And we have not had an

0:50:200:50:27

industrial policy to create the

well-paid jobs, particularly in

0:50:270:50:31

export industries that could help

the balance of trade but also put

0:50:310:50:35

money in pockets to spend.

What do

you say about increasing wages?

It

0:50:350:50:41

is a chicken and egg problem cars to

increase wages, businesses need to

0:50:410:50:47

boost productivity in order to give

themselves a capacity to do so and

0:50:470:50:51

we need to be careful that trying to

intervene in the market and raise

0:50:510:50:58

wages might have a counter effect

where businesses are not able to

0:50:580:51:03

support a workforce. In fact, one

third of members said if their

0:51:030:51:08

revenues were squeezed, they might

have to consider reducing headcount.

0:51:080:51:12

So there is a trade-off.

0:51:120:51:23

We are seeing record profits. There

is perhaps a bigger question about

0:51:230:51:29

corporate governance and why they

are not investing in new plant but

0:51:290:51:34

also people'swage packets.

Can the

UK afford pay rises to public sector

0:51:340:51:39

and private sector before

productivity goes up?

We cannot

0:51:390:51:43

afford not to. We produced a report,

the TUC, showing almost 50 billion

0:51:430:51:49

has been sucked out of the English

economy by the public sector pay cap

0:51:490:51:53

alone, money not being spent in

shops and local businesses and it is

0:51:530:52:01

not encouraging private employers to

start investing in skills as well as

0:52:010:52:06

salaries.

Why is productivity worse

in Northern Ireland?

Nerve it -- it

0:52:060:52:15

is the worst performing region and

something we recognise and we are

0:52:150:52:19

working on strategy. Traditionally

Northern Ireland has had a lot of

0:52:190:52:22

people working in agriculture,

retail, manufacturer of food and so

0:52:220:52:27

on and textiles, which has also been

labour-intensive, so there is an

0:52:270:52:32

issue investing public key, which is

what our package was about,

0:52:320:52:38

infrastructure, skills, but

companies you are right should be

0:52:380:52:42

doing that. In terms of Northern

Ireland, investment in

0:52:420:52:46

infrastructure is key.

You agree

with Frances O'Grady on this broadly

0:52:460:52:50

rather than the government?

We take

a balanced approach. In Northern

0:52:500:52:55

Ireland we take the best of all the

arguments. We will put forward the

0:52:550:53:00

best of the arguments available.

Would you like to see the Chancellor

0:53:000:53:05

increase wages for other parts of

the public sector other than police

0:53:050:53:09

and prison service?

I do not think the Chancellor will

0:53:090:53:13

increase pay but he could relax

restrictions in terms of the pay

0:53:130:53:16

cap. I think Matt is right. We made

that clear in terms of nurses and

0:53:160:53:22

public sector pay generally. The

policy has gone on long enough and

0:53:220:53:28

too long and I hope we see movement.

What if he does not give departments

0:53:280:53:33

extra cash to do it, there must be

cuts elsewhere?

There are ways the

0:53:330:53:38

government can manage this and he

has extended the deadline for

0:53:380:53:43

reducing the deficit and we will see

what he does on that.

Do you think

0:53:430:53:48

it is the right way to go? Even if

austerity is not over in that sense

0:53:480:53:54

he relaxes deficit targets and put

some sort of resource behind

0:53:540:53:57

allowing their to be more money for

public services?

Members are for

0:53:570:54:03

fiscal responsibility and we know

the Chancellor has committed to

0:54:030:54:07

specific fiscal rules and it is

important for businesses that there

0:54:070:54:11

is a semblance of policy continuity

to allow businesses and investors to

0:54:110:54:17

anchor expectations around. There is

no doubt with Brexit and potential

0:54:170:54:23

consequences, there may be need to

set aside money to support the

0:54:230:54:28

transition.

Do you think it would be

more important if there were to be

0:54:280:54:32

something that might hamper the

economy while the Brexit

0:54:320:54:36

negotiations are going on, keep the

fiscal rules, put money aside for

0:54:360:54:40

that, before giving the green light

to more pay rises?

It is clear

0:54:400:54:47

austerity policies have not

delivered higher productivity and

0:54:470:54:50

investment and on the contrary, we

need to invest in public

0:54:500:54:55

infrastructure including services to

get Britain match fit. What do you

0:54:550:54:59

want to see? We have one in seven

workers in the public sector

0:54:590:55:04

skipping meals. They have had seven

years of pay cap and they need a

0:55:040:55:08

real pay rise. It has to be fully

funded. Nurses do not want to see

0:55:080:55:15

porters and cleaners going without

to fund their pay increase. It is a

0:55:150:55:21

team, a family, and I hope the

Chancellor will do the right thing.

0:55:210:55:24

Well tomorrow instead

of your usual Daily Politics

0:55:240:55:26

Andrew Neil will host a

0:55:260:55:27

special budget programme

bringing you all the top

0:55:270:55:29

analysis and reaction

to Philip Hammond's statement.

0:55:290:55:32

That's on BBC Two

starting at 11.30.

0:55:320:55:35

Time now to find out

the answer to our quiz.

0:55:350:55:40

The question was how did EU

countries break the voting deadlock

0:55:400:55:43

over which city would get to host

the European Medicines

0:55:430:55:46

Agency after Brexit?

0:55:460:55:46

Was it...

0:55:460:55:48

A coin toss?

0:55:480:55:49

A tug of war?

0:55:490:55:50

A game of rock-paper-scissors?

0:55:500:55:51

Or a game of five-a-side?

0:55:510:55:52

So Nigel, what's the correct answer?

0:55:520:55:58

I think the correct answer was a

toss of the coin, but I would have

0:55:580:56:03

loved to have seen any of those

scenarios. It is a good argument for

0:56:030:56:09

transparency.

Doing Rock, paper

scissors. It was a coin toss with

0:56:090:56:14

Amsterdam beating Milan after three

rounds of voting and a coin toss.

0:56:140:56:18

The old ways are sometimes the best.

0:56:180:56:20

My guest of the day

Nigel Dodds has plenty

0:56:200:56:23

of experience in negotations,

and many felt the DUP managed to get

0:56:230:56:26

a particularly good deal

with the Conservatives

0:56:260:56:27

when they agreed to help them stay

in government earlier this year.

0:56:270:56:37

We can see the signing of the deal

in June. They are flanked by the DUP

0:56:400:56:46

leader Arlene Foster. And Theresa

May and Nigel Dodds and Damian

0:56:460:56:55

Green.

0:56:550:56:59

So what makes a good negiotator?

0:56:590:57:01

And are there rules that politicians

should follow in order

0:57:010:57:03

to get the best deal?

0:57:030:57:04

Sir Christopher Meyer was the former

Ambassdor to the United States

0:57:040:57:07

and was also Chair of the Press

complaints commission so he knows

0:57:070:57:10

a thing or two about delicate

diplomacy and he joins us now.

0:57:100:57:13

First role in getting a good deal?

No deal is better than a bad deal.

0:57:130:57:16

You to that? Absolutely and it has

nothing to do with Brexit

0:57:160:57:19

particularly. I have seen it work in

action. It is the other side of a

0:57:190:57:25

coin that says decide what your

bottom line is, stick to it and if

0:57:250:57:28

the other side try to push you below

it you walk out.

What if you cannot

0:57:280:57:33

get agreement on your side about the

bottom line? You will. In terms of

0:57:330:57:41

walking away, should the government

walk away now?

Would that be your

0:57:410:57:43

strategy? I would not walk away now,

I would be tempted to suspend my

0:57:430:57:49

participation if come a new offer

from Theresa May with a hint of more

0:57:490:57:53

money at the December European

Council, the EU 27 do not decide to

0:57:530:57:58

move to the next stage, at that

point I would say maybe it is not

0:57:580:58:02

worth it after all and we will go

back and think about this.

You think

0:58:020:58:06

it should be a case of jumping

together when it comes to more money

0:58:060:58:10

and moving onto trade talks?

There

is a principle which the EU has

0:58:100:58:14

enshrined and that is, I'm sorry,

nothing is agreed until everything

0:58:140:58:23

is agreed. If that principle is

there, by definition we should move

0:58:230:58:28

forward in parallel talks on all the

different bits of it.

Do you think

0:58:280:58:33

the British Government have been

tough enough?

I do not think they

0:58:330:58:37

have, they were too quick to accept

the motion of the sequence

0:58:370:58:42

negotiation because that has

structured to enable PE you to win.

0:58:420:58:45

Thank you. Thank you -- enabled the

European Union to win.

0:58:450:58:53

That's all for today.

0:58:530:58:55

Thanks to our guests.

0:58:550:58:56

The one o'clock news is starting

over on BBC One now.

0:58:560:58:58

Bye-bye.

0:58:580:58:59

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