Browse content similar to 28/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello, and welcome
to the Daily Politics. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
The Government is warned it could be
in contempt of Parliament unless it | 0:00:43 | 0:00:50 | |
hands over full details
of its assessment of the potential | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
impact of Brexit on the economy. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:53 | |
We'll have the latest. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:54 | |
Is Momentum carrying out a hard-left
purge of Labour's centrists? | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
Or is the organisation putting
some much-needed lead | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
in the party pencil? | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
We discuss with one of Momentum's
most high-profile supporters. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:07 | |
On his first outing in the Commons,
the new Defence Secretary is warned | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
by his own MPs that he faces
a "substantial rebellion" | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
if there are more cuts
to the Armed Forces. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
We'll be speaking to the chairman
of the Defence Select Committee. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
And. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
Who are the key people
behind the scenes? | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
We have the latest in our
Westminster Village series. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:29 | |
All that in the next hour. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
And with us for the whole
of the programme today | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
is the Guardian
columnist Owen Jones. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:38 | |
Welcome to the show. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
Now, this morning, the Bank
of England Governor | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
Mark Carney has said Britain's
biggest banks could cope | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
if the country leaves the EU
in a "disorderly" way. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:50 | |
For the first time since
the financial crisis, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
all of the UK's biggest lenders have
passed the bank's stress tests. | 0:01:54 | 0:02:01 | |
Here is Mark Carney speaking
earlier this morning. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:06 | |
Despite the severity of the test,
for the first time since the Bank | 0:02:06 | 0:02:11 | |
began stress testing in 2014,
no bank needs to strengthen | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
its capital position as a result. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:15 | |
Informed by the stress test
and our own risk analysis, | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
the FPC also judges that the banking
system can continue to support | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
the real economy, even
in the unlikely event | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
of a disorderly Brexit. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:32 | |
The balance sheets of British banks
are strong enough, are you | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
reassured?
It shows how low the bar has been | 0:02:37 | 0:02:42 | |
set. We're not talking about
imminent financial Armageddon. We | 0:02:42 | 0:02:47 | |
have seen the weakest growth in
Britain of any major G-7 country, | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
the longest squeeze in wages since
perhaps the 18th century, and a | 0:02:51 | 0:02:57 | |
prospect of a no deal Brexit which
means everything from dairy and meat | 0:02:57 | 0:03:03 | |
product prices surging, aeroplanes
being grounded, the economy grinding | 0:03:03 | 0:03:08 | |
to a halt.
Aren't they the worst case scenarios | 0:03:08 | 0:03:12 | |
you prepare for?
They are not a risk I would like to | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
take.
It is not as bad as you won't be | 0:03:15 | 0:03:21 | |
shot in the head but you may be
hospitalised. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
What we are talking about because
the Tories have bungled Brexit | 0:03:23 | 0:03:30 | |
negotiations are they are going very
badly, we have a chronically weak | 0:03:30 | 0:03:37 | |
Government, we have the longest
squeeze in wages for 200 years. Weak | 0:03:37 | 0:03:43 | |
economic growth and the prospect of
a disastrous no deal Brexit which | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
will cause huge hardship.
People might say you are doing | 0:03:47 | 0:03:52 | |
project fear in the way that remain
as said ahead of the referendum. In | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
terms of warnings, Morgan Stanley
says Jeremy Corbyn becoming Prime | 0:03:57 | 0:04:03 | |
Minister would cause more damage to
UK business than Brexit. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
I would be more worried if they
started lauding Jeremy Corbyn. This | 0:04:08 | 0:04:14 | |
financial elite plunged the world
into economic disaster, they got | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
saved by the state, one of the many
lavish benefits claimants. They | 0:04:18 | 0:04:26 | |
caused huge economic ruin which many
were forced to pay for. The truth of | 0:04:26 | 0:04:32 | |
why the Labour Party is doing so
well is because of the damage | 0:04:32 | 0:04:38 | |
inflicted on our economy by the
financial sector. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
So why a 20 points ahead if they are
doing so well? | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
Older people haven't been won over
because the Labour Party have a 20 | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
point lead the people over those
under 65. We have to do more for | 0:04:51 | 0:04:58 | |
those who haven't suffered the great
squeeze in wages. Issues like social | 0:04:58 | 0:05:03 | |
care, pensions.
On the economy they are not trusted | 0:05:03 | 0:05:08 | |
still.
They have closed the gap. You said | 0:05:08 | 0:05:12 | |
you would expect them to be further
ahead, even the Shadow Chancellor | 0:05:12 | 0:05:19 | |
has said there could be a run on the
pound and a flight of capital from | 0:05:19 | 0:05:26 | |
the UK, thinking there is a worst
case scenario if Labour come to | 0:05:26 | 0:05:31 | |
Government.
You would see a sharp decline... | 0:05:31 | 0:05:37 | |
He thinks there would be a
further... | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
You have to prepare for all
eventualities. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
That is what Mark Carney is doing.
I said we wouldn't have if a natural | 0:05:43 | 0:05:50 | |
apocalypse doesn't mean in a deal
Brexit wouldn't be ruinous. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:57 | |
If you look at the Tories's economic
record where they said they would | 0:05:57 | 0:06:01 | |
wipe out the deficit by 2015.
2031. They have added more debt than | 0:06:01 | 0:06:11 | |
any Labour Government put together.
A terrible decline in wages. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
That is why an alternative, saying,
let us have a genuine living wage, | 0:06:15 | 0:06:22 | |
ask those at the top to pay more to
invest in our crippled public | 0:06:22 | 0:06:27 | |
services, bring our utilities back
under the ownership of the people, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:33 | |
that has resonated with millions of
people. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
What Usain about... About the record
levels -- what do you say to mark -- | 0:06:37 | 0:06:50 | |
what do you say about the record
levels of unemployment? | 0:06:50 | 0:06:56 | |
What we have seen in this country is
most people in poverty are in work. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:02 | |
They get up every day to earn their
poverty which is bad for the | 0:07:02 | 0:07:07 | |
economy, they don't spend, bad for
the taxpayer because wages have to | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
be topped up. Instead, as we are
arguing, you need an interventionist | 0:07:11 | 0:07:19 | |
policy to support industries like
renewable energy and high-tech to | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
create skilled, properly paid jobs
which are sustainable. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:29 | |
Should Labour reverse all the cuts
by the Government rather than 4 | 0:07:29 | 0:07:35 | |
billion?
I would like to see them go further. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:40 | |
I would like Labour to go further in
lots of ways, a more radical | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
programme including reversing every
single cut. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
Labour has accused the Government
of treating Parliament with contempt | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
unless it hands over full details
of its assessment of the potential | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
impact of Brexit on the economy. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:55 | |
The Government sent over
its documents to the Brexit | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
Committee last night
but with crucial details edited out. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
The Brexit Secretary David Davis
said the papers had been redacted | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
because there was no guarantee
they would be kept secret. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
Well, the Brexit Committee has been
meeting this morning to discuss how | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
to respond to the Government. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:12 | |
Norman Smith joins us now
from Portcullis House | 0:08:12 | 0:08:14 | |
where the meeting has
been taking place. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:21 | |
Bring us up to date? The committee
has decided to summon David Davis to | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
appear before them, I suspect, on
Monday, and have written to him | 0:08:26 | 0:08:34 | |
saying it is not acceptable he has
flouted the will of the Commons by | 0:08:34 | 0:08:40 | |
not handing over all the
documentation, challenging his view | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
he has been given no assurances how
the committee would respond. Jacob | 0:08:43 | 0:08:49 | |
Rees Mogg tabled an amendment to the
letter to include the possibility Mr | 0:08:49 | 0:08:54 | |
Davies might be in breach of
parliamentary Prevc which would open | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
him up to being in contempt of
Parliament -- privilege. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:05 | |
What happens next?
The select committee today has | 0:09:05 | 0:09:12 | |
decided to ask David Davis to appear
before us. I have written to him to | 0:09:12 | 0:09:18 | |
say, because the Government in its
better to me yesterday said it had | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
withheld certain information, I
don't think that is consistent with | 0:09:22 | 0:09:28 | |
the resolution Nijhuis past, and I
have said the committee will need to | 0:09:28 | 0:09:36 | |
consider whether this is potentially
a breach of privilege. We are asking | 0:09:36 | 0:09:41 | |
him to appear as a matter of urgency
to ask him about the process by | 0:09:41 | 0:09:46 | |
which the Government decided to
respond to the resolution which led | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
to an edited version of the
material, and so we can ask him the | 0:09:50 | 0:09:57 | |
question of the arch lever files of
material given, is there anything | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
which in your view might undermine
the negotiations because the | 0:10:01 | 0:10:06 | |
committee will take the decision
about what to publish. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
The Government is clear the
documents you have seen do not | 0:10:09 | 0:10:15 | |
exist, they are not there. They say
the committee has not given him | 0:10:15 | 0:10:20 | |
assurances over how you will treat
this information. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:26 | |
The second of those suggestions is
incorrect. I made it very clear to | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
the Secretary of State how the
committee would deal with this. The | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
members will look at the material
released, they can't take copies | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
away. I gave assurances how it would
be handled. I said we would ask the | 0:10:37 | 0:10:43 | |
Government are there things in here
you think our commercial in | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
confidence or very sensitive, and
the committee takes its | 0:10:46 | 0:10:53 | |
responsibilities seriously.
Ultimately I made it clear to him, | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
Parliament instructed the material
be released to us, it is the job of | 0:10:57 | 0:11:00 | |
the committee to decide what is
published having considered what | 0:11:00 | 0:11:05 | |
ministers think. For the material
released, one reason why we are | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
calling him is, is there anything
you have concerns given you told us | 0:11:09 | 0:11:14 | |
you have included a lot of stuff you
were concerned about. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
What happens if David Davis says, I
am sorry, I will not hand over the | 0:11:19 | 0:11:25 | |
additional documentation I am wary
of giving over. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
The committee will have to consider
whatever answers he gives, and | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
decide how to take it further.
I am not prejudging what the | 0:11:33 | 0:11:41 | |
committee might decide. The question
has been raised whether potentially | 0:11:41 | 0:11:46 | |
this is a breach of privilege. The
committee has taken no stance at | 0:11:46 | 0:11:54 | |
all. Ultimately it will be for the
committee to decide what happens | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
next.
This might look like a tussle over | 0:11:57 | 0:12:04 | |
paperwork but it is more profound, a
tussle over who is going to run the | 0:12:04 | 0:12:09 | |
Brexit process. Ministers or can
Parliament grab hold of it? So much | 0:12:09 | 0:12:16 | |
of the whole tussle has been about
this from the first day. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:22 | |
I'm joined now by the Conservative
MP John Whittingdale who sits | 0:12:22 | 0:12:25 | |
on the Brexit Committee,
and was in the meeting this morning. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:27 | |
And by the Labour MP Paul Blomfield
who is a Shadow Brexit minister. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:34 | |
Welcome to you. John Whittingdale,
David Davis is in breach of | 0:12:34 | 0:12:41 | |
Parliament. There was a vote,
Parliament decided to seek the | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
papers in full and he failed to
deliver. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
Parliament had also said the
Government should not release the | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
material which could jeopardise our
negotiations, and the important | 0:12:53 | 0:12:59 | |
thing is we get the best possible
deal for this country, it is the | 0:12:59 | 0:13:03 | |
biggest issue facing us and I would
not want the Government to release | 0:13:03 | 0:13:07 | |
anything which could put that at
risk. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
Is he in breach of Parliament by
failing to supply the papers in | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
full? We will come onto what could
be adapted. Has he failed to do what | 0:13:14 | 0:13:21 | |
was demanded of him?
In my view, no, Parliament has said | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
we should not release documents...
What would you say to Hilary Benn? | 0:13:26 | 0:13:32 | |
The committee was not unanimous. I
support summoning David Davis, he | 0:13:32 | 0:13:39 | |
needs to answer questions about
whether there is information in the | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
documents we have been given, which
are sensitive and we should not even | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
release those.
If he has released those, why not | 0:13:48 | 0:13:53 | |
everything?
In his letter, he says he hasn't | 0:13:53 | 0:13:56 | |
supplied all the information because
he has withheld some that could put | 0:13:56 | 0:14:01 | |
at risk our negotiations. And said
even within the documents he has | 0:14:01 | 0:14:06 | |
given there is some sensitive
material he would prefer not to be | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
made public.
Has the committee overstepped its | 0:14:09 | 0:14:15 | |
mark?
All Hilary Benn has done is said the | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
committee may wish to consider. That
is not overstepping the mark. It is | 0:14:18 | 0:14:23 | |
reasonable to say that. The question
is whether we conclude there has | 0:14:23 | 0:14:29 | |
been any breach of privilege, my
view is that there has not. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
We are in the middle of one of the
most important sets of negotiations, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
why should the Government be forced
to give away sensitive information | 0:14:37 | 0:14:43 | |
that would not be in the national
interest and might undermine | 0:14:43 | 0:14:46 | |
negotiations?
I wound up the debate for the | 0:14:46 | 0:14:53 | |
Liberal Party on the 1st of November
and made it clear we do not want to | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
seek commercially sensitive
information released or the | 0:14:57 | 0:15:03 | |
negotiations compromised. But we do
want to see the 58 impact | 0:15:03 | 0:15:07 | |
assessments released to the Select
Committee. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
If they are not adapted, how can
they include the 60 -- sensitive | 0:15:11 | 0:15:20 | |
information?
We want them to be released to the | 0:15:20 | 0:15:26 | |
committee who can decide what
publications can be made more | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
widely. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:28 | |
Es Do you trust the members of
Select Committees, bearing the mind | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
David Davis' letter was leaked and
ended up in a newspaper? I don't | 0:15:40 | 0:15:47 | |
think it is good if we start from
the premise we can't trust Select | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
Committees, which work across a
range of issues and areas. Our | 0:15:52 | 0:15:58 | |
accountability begins to break down
if Government are marginalising | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
Select Committees in this way. Well,
obviously a point, John | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
Whittingdale. Do you not trust your
fellow parliamentarians, either we | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
have a system that works and you can
deal with sews sensitive | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
information, otherwise you are going
to see information that we can all | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
see in the public domain. ? In this
case you have a Select Committee of | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
20 members, and the information is
also beingp given to the Lords' | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
Select Committee and being given do
the devolved administration. This | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
information is going to a lot of
people. Do you trust your fellow | 0:16:26 | 0:16:29 | |
parliamentarians? I have chaired a
Select Committee in ten years, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
during that time we had to have leak
inquiries because information was | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
leaked. I am afraid there are
precedents for this happening and on | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
a committee of this size, when one
has to say that perhaps not every | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
member is as committed to obtaining
a good deal as I am and my | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
colleagues, in those instances, I
can see why the Secretary of State | 0:16:47 | 0:16:49 | |
is reluctant. What do you say to
that, Paul, Blomfeld? I think it is | 0:16:49 | 0:16:57 | |
an important principle here, you
alluded to it at the outset. At | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
every point during this process
Government has tried to marginalise | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
Parliament. Parliament is central in
what are the most important | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
negotiations facing this country. I
made it clear, at the end of the | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
debate, if the Government didn't
wish to release, as the Commons | 0:17:10 | 0:17:15 | |
wanted the to, those papers,
unredacted, they should have voted | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
against that motion or amended it.
They chose not to and the motion was | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
very clear - that the papers should
be released in full to the Select | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
Committee. You haven't answered the
question about the problems of leaks | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
and leaks of sensitive information
that could damage Britain's position | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
in these negotiations. We know that
leaks happen all the time. So why | 0:17:31 | 0:17:36 | |
would we risk it with these
negotiations? Well, I have to say | 0:17:36 | 0:17:40 | |
some of the most damaging leaks that
have come out of the negotiations | 0:17:40 | 0:17:46 | |
are from the Cabinet with Government
ministers briefing against each | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
other which caused enormous damage
to the process and confidence in | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
where this Government is taking us.
I think we have to work on the | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
principle that our Select Committees
are to be trusted and to fulfil | 0:17:55 | 0:17:59 | |
their responsibilities properly.
Once Government starts saying we are | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
not going to give them this
information, because we have to | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
worry about it or not going to give
them that information, the system of | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
parliamentary accountability breaks
down. Right but even the EU | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
themselves have said they wouldn't
give away potentially sensitive | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
information. On their fact street
they say, "A certain level of | 0:18:16 | 0:18:22 | |
confidentiality is necessary to
protect EU interests and to deep | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
chances for a satisfactory outcome
high." Are they wrong? No they are | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
right. What we have said and we made
it clear, I made this point in the | 0:18:30 | 0:18:35 | |
Commons, when we were concluding the
debate, we do not want to seat | 0:18:35 | 0:18:39 | |
public release of information which
is confidential or compromising the | 0:18:39 | 0:18:43 | |
negotiating position but we want to
see that full information made | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
available to the Select Committee
responsible in the House of Commons. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
Right. I mean, David Davis is making
this up as he goes alock, isn't he? | 0:18:48 | 0:18:53 | |
-- along. There weren't any
assessment impact papers in the | 0:18:53 | 0:18:58 | |
first place and Parliament in the
end called his bluff? Well, I | 0:18:58 | 0:19:03 | |
haven't yet seen the documents we
have been given. There are 850 | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
pages, I only got them last night.
We only have one copy. Until I have | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
had a chance to look the a therges I
don't know quite what they will | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
consist of. -- to look at them. We
won't know what the material that | 0:19:12 | 0:19:19 | |
has been withheld is, so we don't
know if they are complete or not. It | 0:19:19 | 0:19:24 | |
is a political game. You are saying
its a short-term political game but | 0:19:24 | 0:19:28 | |
the Brexit secretary, David Davis
said to a committee of MPs in | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
December last year, "We have carried
out o or are the midst of carrying | 0:19:31 | 0:19:38 | |
out 57 sector analysis which have
amplcations that 85% of the economy | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
and some of those are still to be
concluded." Yet, when course the | 0:19:41 | 0:19:46 | |
vote was lost, nobody could seem to
put their hands on these, in | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
detailed papers written about
different sectors of the economy | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
Well, as I understand it, this is an
ongoing process, they are documents | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
that are continually having new
information added to them, the has | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
now said that they will give us the
documents at the time the vote was | 0:20:01 | 0:20:10 | |
carried but they continue to go on
evolving. That's the point they | 0:20:10 | 0:20:16 | |
don't exist in the form you have
outlined That case there is ( a | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
serious question about trusting
Government. David Davis told the | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
break it Select Committee in
December, as youlight, that that | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
work was being done, and then he
provided in October the Lords' | 0:20:25 | 0:20:31 | |
committee with a list of 58, he had
added one to the 57 in December, | 0:20:31 | 0:20:37 | |
sectorial impact assessments he said
had been undertaken. If they have | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
knot been undertaken we are in
serious territory. Well, if you | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
don't know they existed in the fist
place, what are you criticising | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
here? You have not actually seen the
contents of the documents so far, | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
you don't even know if they existed
in the fist place so, what is this | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
all about? Well, I take the
Secretary of State's word at face | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
value. He said this work was being
undertaken and he reported on the 58 | 0:21:00 | 0:21:05 | |
reviews that had taken place. I'm
not doubting that. All we want to do | 0:21:05 | 0:21:08 | |
is see them. Right, but you haven't
seen them and yet you are | 0:21:08 | 0:21:13 | |
criticising the process, criticising
the content of papers that you | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
haven't yet seen. Well the Secretary
of State said that the Government | 0:21:16 | 0:21:22 | |
had undertaken 58 sectorial impact
assessments. The House of Commons | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
voted that they should be released
in full to the Brexit Select | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
Committee, that's what we are
concerned about. Either that work | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
hasn't been undertaken, which is
very serious for the country if they | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
have not taken the economic impact
assessments on the negotiations that | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
they are deeply involved in, which
will affect everybody's jump in | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
livelihoods or they have and they
are not releasing them in full. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
Either way, this is serious
territory. Right. The question is | 0:21:44 | 0:21:49 | |
one of transparency John
Whittingdale and the Tory MP, Jacob | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
Rees-Mogg is supporting Labour and
Paul Blomfeld in this, because he | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
says that they have to be published
these papers, in full to the Brexit | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
Select Committee. The motion does
not allow for redaction and a happy | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
chat across the Despatch Box between
the shadow spokesman and ministers | 0:22:04 | 0:22:09 | |
and it doesn't reduce the right of
this House to seat papers. He is | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
correct -- see the papers I know
that is his view. I don't entirely | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
agree with him. In this instance, I
think there is a bigger issue at | 0:22:17 | 0:22:22 | |
stake. Getting the right deal for
this country is imperative. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:27 | |
Transparency can be pushed to the
side If it involves releasing | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
information that could potentially
undermine the negotiation, yes. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:33 | |
Right. What is your view, Owen z
they exist and is there a question | 0:22:33 | 0:22:42 | |
of redaction? A question of honesty,
David Davis seemed to imply or | 0:22:42 | 0:22:52 | |
suggest, that they were there in
detail. The wider point about | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
transparency is this - we were told
by the leaders of the Leave campaign | 0:22:55 | 0:22:59 | |
that this ex-Brit was about
restoring parliamentary sovereignty, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
and yet they undermine parliamentary
scrutiny of this proriver single | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
step of the way. The other point,
John Whittingdale talked about a | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
good deal. I wouldn't trust this
Government to wash my windows never | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
mind... How do you get a good deal
if you give awane reveal... The | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
question is, do we have
parliamentary sovereignty, where | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
there is proper parliamentary
oversight on a cross-party basis or | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
do we entrust the future of our
country to Liam Fox, Boris Johnson | 0:23:24 | 0:23:30 | |
and David Davis, where we had a
Leave campaign that promised all | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
sorts of things, getting a deal
would be a walk in the park, the | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
boreder in Ireland wouldn't be a
problem, it is and we would get £350 | 0:23:37 | 0:23:43 | |
million extra a beak for the NHS.
That got lost in the post. Now if we | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
don't trust them over and over
again, why should we allow them to | 0:23:47 | 0:23:54 | |
have complete oversight without MPs
on the cross of had party basis | 0:23:54 | 0:24:00 | |
restoring... We have lost John
Whittingdale. He had to go back to | 0:24:00 | 0:24:06 | |
the Houses of Parliament for an
urgent question on this subject. We | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
will bring that to you, when we get
it: | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:14 | |
An SNP MP called Douglas Chapman has
managed to secure a Parliamentary | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
debate suggesting that the UK should
appoint a new ambassador. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
But to where? | 0:24:20 | 0:24:21 | |
Is it a) The Arctic? | 0:24:21 | 0:24:22 | |
b) The Antarctic? | 0:24:22 | 0:24:23 | |
c) Catalonia? | 0:24:23 | 0:24:24 | |
Or d) Mars? | 0:24:24 | 0:24:25 | |
At the end of the show,
Owen will hopefully give | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
us the correct answer. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:34 | |
Now, unless you've been hiding away
for the last couple of years, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
you've no doubt heard
about Momentum, the campaign group | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
set up to support Jeremy Corbyn. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:46 | |
Owen here is a high-profile
supporter, and is involved in some | 0:24:46 | 0:24:48 | |
of Momentum's campaigning. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
Yesterday, we reported on Momentum's
new political objectives document, | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
which it is asking prospective
parliamentary candidates to sign. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:59 | |
It got a few in the
party a bit irked. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
One Labour MP
tweeted that Momentum | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
was like a "Stalinist cult". | 0:25:03 | 0:25:04 | |
So, is that true? | 0:25:04 | 0:25:05 | |
Or is the criticism overblown? | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
Today's Times reports that some
Labour councillors around | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
the country are being deselected
or pressured to stand down | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
in favour of candidates more
sympathetic to Momentum's aims. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
The in-fighting is particularly
intense in Haringey, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
in north London. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
One of the councillors
there, Tim Gallagher, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:29 | |
says there is an "aggressive purge"
happening in the local party. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
He added that the atmosphere
is "inflamed with division, | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
distrust and what at times
feels like hatred". | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
Meanwhile, the founder and chair
of Momentum Jon Lansman | 0:25:36 | 0:25:46 | |
is running for a place on the ruling
body of the Labour Party, | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
the National Executive Committee. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:51 | |
At Labour's recent conference,
Momentum successfully pushed | 0:25:51 | 0:25:53 | |
for a change to Labour's leadership
election rules, which means that, | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
in future, candidates running
to lead the party will only need | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
the support of 10%, rather
than 15%, of Labour MPs. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
But Jon Lansman said that the change
to the rules "doesn't | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
go far enough". | 0:26:03 | 0:26:04 | |
He also wants to see further changes
in the Labour Party, in particular, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
"giving members more
influence over policymaking". | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
Momentum says it has
31,000 paying members | 0:26:12 | 0:26:19 | |
and a further 200,000 supporters. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:23 | |
Many think that the organisation
played a key role in helping | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
Jeremy Corbyn and Labour to gain
seats at the election back in June. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
With us now is Richard Angell,
director of Progress, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:38 | |
a centre-left pressure group. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:43 | |
Are you concerned with the
situation, particularly in har ingay | 0:26:43 | 0:26:48 | |
Utterly ludicrous. Momentum played
an historic role in the election. I | 0:26:48 | 0:26:57 | |
hope Richard would agree. . Come to
the har ingay It is about what | 0:26:57 | 0:27:06 | |
member Labour put forward to
represent the party adds councillor, | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
you have seen a handful of examples
in har ingay. And I should point out | 0:27:09 | 0:27:14 | |
what a thriving party it is. In
Hornsey and Wood Green do you how | 0:27:14 | 0:27:20 | |
many members of the Labour Party, it
is 1 in 14, a thriving Democratic | 0:27:20 | 0:27:25 | |
Party. The problem s har ingay is
the Labour council there is | 0:27:25 | 0:27:32 | |
proposing a mass sell-off of council
housing and public land including | 0:27:32 | 0:27:38 | |
both MPs, including David Lammy, no
Corbynite. And poe o opposed by | 0:27:38 | 0:27:44 | |
consit City Council r os and some of
those, when they support come up | 0:27:44 | 0:27:52 | |
from election, there has been a
handsful where members themselves | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
democratically decided they would
like to replace them with swuvenlt | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
they might be disappointed with
losing elections, they always are, | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
but it is democracy. Is it democracy
in action or a purge? It is a the pa | 0:28:02 | 0:28:08 | |
earn taking place. The first woman
leader of Leeds council has been | 0:28:08 | 0:28:12 | |
triggered in her local party, a city
with two women MPs for Labour in its | 0:28:12 | 0:28:16 | |
whole history. You have it in
Manchester, where the former Mr Gay | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
UK has been deselected. You have a
young, black lesbian woman in | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
Southwark where it is taking place.
There is a pattern across the | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
country, Owen, this is now going to
come to our Labour MPs potentially | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
down the road. The Tory opponents
don't have to deal with this, they | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
are having to deal with different
challenge, in Haringey, it isn't | 0:28:35 | 0:28:41 | |
true, you have fallen for George
Osborne's trap. He wanted to impose | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
big swinging cuts on local
government so, Labour people would | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
take it out on Labour councillors
rather than a Tory Treasury. That's | 0:28:49 | 0:28:53 | |
why Momentum, not its membership,
hover working really hard, but the | 0:28:53 | 0:28:57 | |
Momentum leadership is taking it out
on Labour councillors for decisions | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
made by George Osborne. Why are you
falling for their trap? Firstly in | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
terms of falling for traps, it is
disappointed if you are talking | 0:29:05 | 0:29:09 | |
about factions, for your faction to
go to the Murdoch press and try and | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
-- that's what happened in the Times
this morning. It happens in the | 0:29:13 | 0:29:18 | |
public domain To portray democratic
selections by members as a purge. It | 0:29:18 | 0:29:25 | |
is not, it is democracy in ction a.
Your own, honoury President, Stephen | 0:29:25 | 0:29:30 | |
Twigg, who I happen to like very
much by the way he himself won his | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
seat by deselecting... Yes he did.
He deselected. He had no role in | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
that deselection. Yes, he znchts
your faction that's what they did. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
-- he Z That's not true Let me
finish In terms of Richard's record | 0:29:43 | 0:29:53 | |
on diversity it is excellent. Why
are they deselecting people already | 0:29:53 | 0:29:57 | |
in position, it is not so much about
the diversity issue, it is about | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
trying to get rid of people
representing Labour already? | 0:30:00 | 0:30:07 | |
Grassroots members of the Labour
Party in handful of incidences, they | 0:30:07 | 0:30:11 | |
have made themselves a democratic
choice, look, if you get selected as | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
a candidate for the Labour Party in
any position, it is a huge honour, | 0:30:15 | 0:30:17 | |
but it doesn't mean you have it for
life, whatever you do. Members have | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
the right to judge you on your
record and values, if they | 0:30:21 | 0:30:26 | |
themselves democratically decide
they would prefer somebody else in | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
their place, that is their role. The
need to portray that as undemocratic | 0:30:29 | 0:30:35 | |
manoeuvring when Labour now, I have
to say before 2015n many places, | 0:30:35 | 0:30:41 | |
local Labours were husks with very
little activity, with council r os | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
selected with very few members,
Labour now is one of the biggest | 0:30:44 | 0:30:48 | |
parties in the Concern world, is a
thriving dome Western World is a | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
thriving Democratic Party. We will
come on to how they've manage to | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
swell the numbers but back to haring
game. You adduced Owen Jones of -- | 0:30:57 | 0:31:04 | |
you accused Owen Jones of falling
for George Osborne's trap but do you | 0:31:04 | 0:31:10 | |
accept in Haringey there was a great
strength of feeling against what the | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
council was proposing? | 0:31:13 | 0:31:20 | |
This is what George Osborne wanted.
This is not just Haringey. Let him | 0:31:20 | 0:31:27 | |
finish.
This is what the Tories wanted. In | 0:31:27 | 0:31:33 | |
Haringey, what is wrong with local
members saying, we don't agree with | 0:31:33 | 0:31:41 | |
our representatives backing council
proposals to make swingeing cuts, | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
whoever you want to blame, that is
democracy. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:49 | |
They have no choice. They can't run
a legal -- a deficit budget. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:57 | |
When they put a motion to the
Council on anti-Semitism, there were | 0:31:57 | 0:32:03 | |
people who work in the chamber
hounding those people and | 0:32:03 | 0:32:07 | |
threatening them with deselection if
they voted to tackle anti-Semitism. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:12 | |
Jon Lansman is Jewish.
Does that mean there is no tone of | 0:32:12 | 0:32:19 | |
hatred as said by this young Labour
councillor. Gallagher says he | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
doesn't want to stand again because
the atmosphere is poisonous, | 0:32:24 | 0:32:29 | |
inflamed by distrust and what feels
like hatred. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
We are seeing candidates who are
very disappointed their brand of | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
politics is no longer in the ascent,
there is a mass democratic party | 0:32:37 | 0:32:45 | |
full of optimism.
And full of hatred he says. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
That is not true. I saw Richard
Angell where your fellow -- your | 0:32:48 | 0:33:00 | |
fellow travellers were leaving
abuse. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:06 | |
The vast majority of people as you
would accept who have joined the | 0:33:06 | 0:33:15 | |
liver party are decent, honest,
optimistic. | 0:33:15 | 0:33:17 | |
I did not say that.
The people I campaign with, they | 0:33:17 | 0:33:24 | |
were brilliant. I enjoyed getting on
with them, we disagreed, we talked. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:31 | |
There is something in the leadership
actively supporting this. We have a | 0:33:31 | 0:33:37 | |
loyalty test, any revisions to the
manifesto... Momentum does not | 0:33:37 | 0:33:44 | |
practice what it peaches, it does
not have internal democracy, it | 0:33:44 | 0:33:49 | |
decided who the candidate in Corby
is without a ballot. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:56 | |
On the loyalty test, we had a
discussion, Richard brought this up, | 0:33:56 | 0:34:06 | |
do you think you would have passed
it at all stages in recent history? | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
In spring this year after using the
Copeland election, you called for | 0:34:10 | 0:34:16 | |
Jeremy Corbyn to resign. You would
not have met at contract. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:23 | |
Yes, after voting for him, I was
publicly disillusioned. Why am I | 0:34:23 | 0:34:30 | |
working so closely with the Mentor?
Momentum is a very broad church of | 0:34:30 | 0:34:41 | |
members united by wanting to have a
radical socialist Government to | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
build a socialist society.
The loyalty test, the Mentor | 0:34:45 | 0:34:54 | |
supports candidates in internal
elections. | 0:34:54 | 0:35:04 | |
Progress...
What we are proud of... | 0:35:04 | 0:35:08 | |
Progress is a tiny group in
comparison. Momentum have thriving | 0:35:08 | 0:35:14 | |
democratic local groups which
democratically selects their own | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
board.
Why are you so much smaller in terms | 0:35:18 | 0:35:23 | |
of numbers?
Compared to Momentum. You have to | 0:35:23 | 0:35:30 | |
accept they have been hugely
successful in terms of getting new | 0:35:30 | 0:35:35 | |
members, injecting enthusiasm. Your
branch of the party is running | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
scared.
We are recognising our politics is | 0:35:38 | 0:35:44 | |
at a low ebb and we had to renew
ourselves because, clearly, people | 0:35:44 | 0:35:50 | |
think our ideas have run their
course, people can't move on from | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
the last Labour Party.
I am allowed to believe what I | 0:35:53 | 0:36:00 | |
believe and renew my politics.
We are a growing organisation. Let | 0:36:00 | 0:36:06 | |
me make this comparison. What
Progress does in selection is | 0:36:06 | 0:36:13 | |
provide training for people so they
know the process, Labour makes it | 0:36:13 | 0:36:17 | |
cloaked in secrecy. We don't donate
money to campaigns, we don't get | 0:36:17 | 0:36:25 | |
together to say you have two
pre-select a candidate. We support | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
as many as we can.
Do you want everybody to be saying | 0:36:29 | 0:36:40 | |
exactly the same thing on exactly
the same issues so there is no | 0:36:40 | 0:36:44 | |
deviation? Is it discipline to get
your man into number ten? | 0:36:44 | 0:36:50 | |
In the general election, I
campaigns, including four MPs who | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
have different politics from myself.
Should they be deselected? No, that | 0:36:55 | 0:37:02 | |
is not the case. In terms of the
loyalty test, the Mentor is | 0:37:02 | 0:37:09 | |
supporting certain candidates, as
other organisations do, asking them | 0:37:09 | 0:37:15 | |
to sign up to their values. There is
nothing wrong. | 0:37:15 | 0:37:21 | |
The former head of compliance...
I remember being active when Tony | 0:37:21 | 0:37:28 | |
Blair was leader and the atmosphere
them towards people of my politics | 0:37:28 | 0:37:32 | |
was often bitterly hostile. We were
blamed for destroying the Labour | 0:37:32 | 0:37:38 | |
Party, and the reality is now the
Labour Party is far more open and | 0:37:38 | 0:37:45 | |
democratic than it has been for a
generation. It will mean elements of | 0:37:45 | 0:37:50 | |
the old order who believe in what
many people now believe is a failed | 0:37:50 | 0:37:55 | |
orthodoxy, they will find that other
people who join will maybe replace | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
them.
That is part of democracy. The | 0:37:58 | 0:38:04 | |
Labour Party did far better than
many expected even within the Labour | 0:38:04 | 0:38:10 | |
Party itself. Do you accept the
values and policies being espoused | 0:38:10 | 0:38:16 | |
by Jeremy Corbyn struck a chord?
It did. But also in that manifesto | 0:38:16 | 0:38:22 | |
it aligned economic security and
national security, the best of | 0:38:22 | 0:38:28 | |
Jeremy Corbyn and Tom Watson, but in
the days after the election, he said | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
they would still get rid of Trident.
He didn't do that. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:40 | |
Very briefly, in the end, Labour
were still two points behind, 20 | 0:38:40 | 0:38:50 | |
years ago Tony Blair came in 12
points ahead. In order to win do you | 0:38:50 | 0:38:55 | |
not have is to be in that position
of Tony Blair and a more centrist | 0:38:55 | 0:38:59 | |
Labour Party to win an election?
Those who support those politics on | 0:38:59 | 0:39:05 | |
the continent are doing far worse
for Labour's sister parties. Labour | 0:39:05 | 0:39:14 | |
got 40%, New Labour at its peak got
44. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:18 | |
Labour started on 24, within six
weeks ended up on 40. In the next | 0:39:18 | 0:39:24 | |
election if we going with 42%, what
many Tory MPs fear is the only way | 0:39:24 | 0:39:33 | |
is up. Because of the Mentor Labour
did far better. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:41 | |
If only that were true. | 0:39:41 | 0:39:47 | |
Some say behind the door of Number
10 Downing Street lie | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
the real power brokers -
those who advise the Prime Minister | 0:39:50 | 0:39:52 | |
on issues such as strategy,
communications or policy. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:54 | |
Emma Vardy has been having a look
at who's in, and who's out. | 0:39:54 | 0:40:03 | |
After the general election,
Theresa May faced something | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
of an exodus of staff. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:12 | |
Some who were blamed
for the disastrous result | 0:40:12 | 0:40:14 | |
were shown the door. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:15 | |
New faces came in. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:16 | |
Others rewarded for their
loyalty were promoted. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:18 | |
She reshaped her inner circle
and braced for the challenges ahead. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:28 | |
Here were the two main casualties
of the post-election clear-out. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:32 | |
Former joint Chief
of Staff Fiona Hill, | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
and Nick Timothy, decided to walk. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:35 | |
This man occupies the most
powerful non-ministerial | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
position in Government. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:38 | |
Gavin Barwell got the job
after losing his Croydon seat. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:43 | |
He is now the Downing Street Chief
of Staff, a highly influential role | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
at the heart of Government. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:48 | |
This is now the most senior
female in Mrs May's team, | 0:40:48 | 0:40:54 | |
Deputy Chief of Staff Joanna Penn,
known as Jo-Jo, who worked closely | 0:40:54 | 0:40:57 | |
with Theresa May in the Home Office. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
Another member of staff
who followed Mrs May | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
from the Home Office is Alex Dawson,
now the political director | 0:41:01 | 0:41:05 | |
of Number Ten, someone who has risen
in prominence since that election. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:11 | |
It's just so tiresome when you're
trying to run the country and this | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
lot is popping up with questions. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
So behind every Prime Minister
there is hard-headed press team. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:22 | |
It's a round-the-clock
job, you know. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:23 | |
Here's someone whose
name you might remember | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
from the credits of this programme. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
Robbie Gibb left his job
as the boss of the BBC's live | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
political output to become
Theresa May's Director | 0:41:30 | 0:41:32 | |
of Communications. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:39 | |
Another former BBC
journalist, Tom Swabrick, | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
deals with the broadcast media
while Paul Harrison is the current | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
Press Secretary. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:45 | |
And what about those
set-piece media appearances | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
which show the public the human side
of the Prime Minister's personality? | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
Overseeing those is Liz Sanderson,
a former feature writer | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
for the Mail On Sunday. | 0:41:53 | 0:41:57 | |
Prime Ministers' careers are often
later remembered for some | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
of their key speeches. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:01 | |
And that's where the
wordsmiths come in. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
Help a PM to nail that podium
moment and you might | 0:42:04 | 0:42:07 | |
just go down in history. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:09 | |
Although this speech might go down
for all the wrong reasons, | 0:42:09 | 0:42:14 | |
with Philip Hammond being the chief
provider of cough sweets, | 0:42:14 | 0:42:19 | |
Keelan Carr is Theresa May's
new speech writer. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
And here
is another journalist | 0:42:22 | 0:42:23 | |
turned political aide. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:24 | |
The former Political Editor
of the Daily Mail, James Slack, | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
is the Prime Minister's official
spokesperson - he has the daily | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
job of briefing lobby
journalists at Parliament. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:35 | |
Working behind this door, well,
there aren't many jobs like it, | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
but you never quite know how long
it will last. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:47 | |
We're joined now by someone
who mixes with the movers | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
and shakers on a daily basis,
the political editor | 0:42:49 | 0:42:52 | |
of The Sun, Tom Newton Dunn. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
Welcome back. Changes in personnel
after the election, how has Downing | 0:42:55 | 0:43:02 | |
Street changed?
Considerably, a 180 degrees U-turn. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:09 | |
There are some new names, Robbie
give. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:14 | |
I remember him. I understand his
staff still get Molly King text | 0:43:14 | 0:43:22 | |
messages despite the fact he has
still moved on. -- rollicking. The | 0:43:22 | 0:43:36 | |
two figures missing are Nick Timothy
and Fiona Hill who drove the | 0:43:36 | 0:43:41 | |
operation, and some say had a fair
hand in driving the Prime Minister, | 0:43:41 | 0:43:47 | |
very adversarial people. Without
that, number ten is a lot more | 0:43:47 | 0:43:53 | |
adversarial, less adversarial.
Has it weakened the Prime Minister? | 0:43:53 | 0:43:58 | |
After the election we talked about
the possibility of those advisers | 0:43:58 | 0:44:03 | |
having to load which they did, and
it would be like losing a leg or an | 0:44:03 | 0:44:08 | |
arm.
Has that been the case? Sort of. An | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
interesting dynamic. Number ten now
has no majority and still have no | 0:44:12 | 0:44:18 | |
money. Now they don't have much of a
mandate. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
The entire job of this number ten is
to build alliances in cabinet and | 0:44:22 | 0:44:29 | |
Parliament, to be consensual and
build bridges and a group effort | 0:44:29 | 0:44:33 | |
which is the opposite of before when
it was about driving through | 0:44:33 | 0:44:43 | |
policies. Today, number ten is
delivering on the mandate it has | 0:44:43 | 0:44:47 | |
which is getting policy and
governing without any majority. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:54 | |
Does it make any difference who is
behind the throne in terms of | 0:44:54 | 0:45:00 | |
advisers, or is it still very much
led by the Prime Minister, and her | 0:45:00 | 0:45:05 | |
closest advisers who are elected?
This is a directional lists -- a | 0:45:05 | 0:45:14 | |
Government without direction.
And the personnel Quetta but we have | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
gathered you are not a supporter of
this Government. Does it make a | 0:45:18 | 0:45:22 | |
difference? | 0:45:22 | 0:45:22 | |
#9d It does, Nick Timothy, cut a
figure. He is widely ridiculed often | 0:45:28 | 0:45:33 | |
as the architect of a disastrous
manifesto. But what that manifesto | 0:45:33 | 0:45:38 | |
accepted was the free market
consensus had collapsed T spoke how | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
the state needed to take a far more
actedive role and how things had | 0:45:42 | 0:45:50 | |
failed. I think he was an
interesting figure in that sense, he | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
understood that. The problem with
the Tories at the moment is they are | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
flitting between either the position
of saying let's double dog on free | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
market dog marks we have not sold it
properly, or to say the system isn't | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
working. -- dogma. And that was the
camp he was in. Do you accept that, | 0:46:03 | 0:46:09 | |
this has been more about state
intervention, un-Tory, but you have | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
said yourself... The rhetoric, not
the policy. The rhetoric, then, in | 0:46:12 | 0:46:16 | |
that case. If somebody like Nick
Timothy who has gone, was seen as | 0:46:16 | 0:46:20 | |
the brain, if you like, behind the
policy, do you need a person like | 0:46:20 | 0:46:24 | |
that to actually Absolutely. I think
Owen - I think some of the policies | 0:46:24 | 0:46:30 | |
were recently interventionist. Ed
Miliband's policy, price freeze, | 0:46:30 | 0:46:35 | |
kicking corporate governments around
boardrooms and more shareholders | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
having greater rights, workers on
the board, etc, all of that was very | 0:46:38 | 0:46:43 | |
un-Tory and certainly very
unlibertarian Tory and you needed a | 0:46:43 | 0:46:47 | |
character like Nick Timothy who
fervently believed in it to drive it | 0:46:47 | 0:46:54 | |
through, quite dogmaticically and
swatting opposition aside. Do you | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
need that sort of force behind
politics,er is eial, everybody says | 0:46:57 | 0:47:01 | |
it is about the 24-hour media. Is it
important to have that narrative | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
going through in a main or the
Government? You need a vision and | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
this Government doesn't have a clear
vision whatsoever. The problem now | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
with the Government is it is about
day-to-day survival rather than a | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
long of had term clear project for
the country which meets its | 0:47:13 | 0:47:17 | |
challenges, obviously it went
horribly wrong for the Tories in | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
that snap election but you did have
someone like Nick Timothy who z I | 0:47:20 | 0:47:25 | |
mean it was disastrous in terms of
the dementia tax and election | 0:47:25 | 0:47:30 | |
falling to pieces but in the overall
society we have lived in, yes it has | 0:47:30 | 0:47:35 | |
been stripped away completely and it
is about how Theresa May survives, | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
will she make it to the end of the
day. They shaping events the current | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
team now, and if it is a broader
circle, they have managed to keep | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
Theresa May in power at times when
people have said it'll all fall | 0:47:45 | 0:47:49 | |
over? And that is the number one
goal of number ten at the moment, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:53 | |
keep Theresa May in power and
somehow get Brexit through without | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
the Tory Party imploding, I think
events also shame personle. The | 0:47:57 | 0:48:03 | |
single most important person,
Tuilagily the most important person | 0:48:03 | 0:48:07 | |
apart from Mrs May, is Mr May, when
history books are written, the role | 0:48:07 | 0:48:12 | |
and effect and guidance he gave to
the Prime Minister will be huge. We | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
see very little of him. But
certainly her most important | 0:48:14 | 0:48:17 | |
advisor. After that it is Gavin
Barwell the Chief of Staff and Gavin | 0:48:17 | 0:48:22 | |
was chosen very much because he was
nice guy Gavin. Tory MPs like him. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:27 | |
He doesn't have an enemy in the
House of Commons, you need that to | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
build bridges and keep the PM where
she is, try hard it get a minuscule | 0:48:30 | 0:48:36 | |
policy, through like a stamp duty
cut on first time buyers but really, | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
the game is survival. Thank you. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
The new Defence Secretary,
Gavin Williamson, has been warned | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
that he faces a "substantial
rebellion" if the Government allows | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
any more cuts to the Armed Forces. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
Mr Williamson was facing questions
for the first time in his new role | 0:48:49 | 0:48:54 | |
in the House of Commons yesterday
and he was left in little doubt | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
about the widespread anger
among his colleagues over further | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
possible defence savings. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:00 | |
Let's look at some highlights: | 0:49:00 | 0:49:01 | |
What we have in terms of our
national security and capability | 0:49:04 | 0:49:09 | |
review is the opportunity to step
back, look at the threats and | 0:49:09 | 0:49:15 | |
challenges that this country faces,
whether it is from cyber, whether it | 0:49:15 | 0:49:20 | |
is more conventional threats,
and make sure we have the right | 0:49:20 | 0:49:29 | |
resources in place so that we can
deliver for our Armed Forces. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:32 | |
It was surreal last week to hear
the Permanent Private Secretary | 0:49:32 | 0:49:34 | |
say that the man in charge had made
no formal pre-Budget request | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
to the Chancellor for more money. | 0:49:37 | 0:49:39 | |
It is one thing to ask and not
get, Mr Speaker, but | 0:49:39 | 0:49:42 | |
another not even to bother asking. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
Above all, will he speak
to his right honourable friend | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
the Chief Whip to remind him | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
if he does not do so he will face
a very substantial rebellion. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:53 | |
It might seem illogical
to have a defence | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
capability review that could
decrease our capabilities at a time | 0:49:55 | 0:49:57 | |
when we need to do everything we can | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
to increase the fighting power
of our Armed Forces. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:03 | |
I think my honourable
friend makes a very | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
valuable point in terms of making
sure we have the right | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
capability for all our Armed Forces. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:12 | |
I am taking the opportunity to look
at all the work that has been done, | 0:50:12 | 0:50:18 | |
and making my own judgment of
the best way to go forward on this. | 0:50:18 | 0:50:22 | |
Joining me from Central Lobby
in Parliament is the Chairman | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
of the Defence Select Committee,
Julian Lewis. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:30 | |
How do you think the new Defence
Secretary did? I think he got off to | 0:50:30 | 0:50:34 | |
a good start. He showed himself to
be open minded about the central | 0:50:34 | 0:50:39 | |
issue - which is: Are we spending
enough on defence. He knows the | 0:50:39 | 0:50:43 | |
answer to, that not nearly enough.
Is he going to do anything about it? | 0:50:43 | 0:50:49 | |
We had Jonny Mercer here yesterday
saying he is not prepared to see | 0:50:49 | 0:50:55 | |
another degredation in this
country's budget for the military. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:58 | |
So say all of us. The problem is we
are now spending barely the Nato | 0:50:58 | 0:51:04 | |
minimum of 2% GDP on defence. The
last time we faced the scenario of | 0:51:04 | 0:51:10 | |
an acertive Russia, coupled with a
terrorist threat, the 1980s. Do you | 0:51:10 | 0:51:15 | |
know what we were spending then? Not
2%, 3%, generally 5% of GDP on | 0:51:15 | 0:51:22 | |
defence, a similar sum to what we
were spending on education and | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
health. Why aren't you advocating 5%
of GDP being spent on defence, you | 0:51:24 | 0:51:31 | |
are only asking for 3? I think a 50%
uplift in the defence budget would | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
be a pretty good start. The reality
is now we are spending nearly four | 0:51:35 | 0:51:39 | |
times on health what we spend on
defence and two-and-a-half times | 0:51:39 | 0:51:44 | |
what we spend on education what we
spend on defence and six times on | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
welfare what we spend on defence and
what's more for every £3 we spend on | 0:51:47 | 0:51:52 | |
defence, we have to spend £1 on
international aid. So defence has | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
fallen too far down our scale of
national priorities. So, are you one | 0:51:56 | 0:51:59 | |
of the 30 MPs who are prepared to
hold the Government's feet it the | 0:51:59 | 0:52:03 | |
fire on the defence as Johnny Mercer
said yesterday? Signed his letter at | 0:52:03 | 0:52:09 | |
the first asking Avon been pressing
now, until I'm blue in the face, as | 0:52:09 | 0:52:14 | |
well as in the ideology, that we
need to get defence up the spending | 0:52:14 | 0:52:19 | |
order of priority. But how far are
you prepared... 3% is a start. How | 0:52:19 | 0:52:24 | |
far are you prepared to go. Holding
the Government's feet to the fire is | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
one thing and as you say you have
been talking about this until you | 0:52:27 | 0:52:31 | |
are blue in the case, how can you
ensure that those cuts don't go | 0:52:31 | 0:52:36 | |
ahead? Well, I think it remains to
be seen whether the cuts would be | 0:52:36 | 0:52:42 | |
put in a situation in the Commons
that would have to result in a vote, | 0:52:42 | 0:52:48 | |
but I cannot see people who think as
I do, and as Jonny does and as James | 0:52:48 | 0:52:57 | |
Grey and Leo Doherty, who I think
you showed in hour cuts, can't see | 0:52:57 | 0:53:01 | |
us voting for ku.s the main thing,
it took the previous Secretary of | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
State, right up until the last few
weeks in office, before he started | 0:53:05 | 0:53:09 | |
to talk in terms of 2% was a base
and not aing target or a egg Crookes | 0:53:09 | 0:53:13 | |
whereas the -- not a ceiling,
whereas the new Defence Secretary | 0:53:13 | 0:53:18 | |
stated in his first outing that this
was his stance. And so, he's got to | 0:53:18 | 0:53:21 | |
build on that. He may not be a
defence expert, but he is a pretty | 0:53:21 | 0:53:28 | |
good infighter and an infighter is
what we need to get the defence | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
budget back to whering it ought to
be. I suppose you see this, do you, | 0:53:31 | 0:53:36 | |
as a point of maximum leverage?
Because your colleagues and you are | 0:53:36 | 0:53:38 | |
speaking out now? I know you have
consistently, over the last few | 0:53:38 | 0:53:44 | |
years, the Spending Review has been
delayed until January or February, | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
the Budget was last week, you know
the Government has a fragile Commons | 0:53:47 | 0:53:50 | |
'majority. Do you think you will get
your way? Well, we have been trying | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
to get this case across for a very
long time, as you say. The previous | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
Defence Secretary said that the
review was being held, because of an | 0:53:58 | 0:54:04 | |
intensification of the threat. Now,
if you have an intensifying threat, | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
that means you have got to spend
more money on de-Phelps, not make | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
defence cuts. So it's not a question
of trying to blackmail the | 0:54:12 | 0:54:17 | |
Government when its back is in a
corner... But it might work It's a | 0:54:17 | 0:54:23 | |
question of persistently carrying on
with the campaign, in the hope that | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
we will, at last, begin to make
serious progress. All right, thank | 0:54:26 | 0:54:29 | |
you. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:30 | |
Let's return now to our main
story, the row about | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
the Government's Brexit reports -
edited versions of which have | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
been given to the Brexit
Select Committee. | 0:54:35 | 0:54:37 | |
Labour has managed to secure
an urgent question on the issue | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
which ministers have been responding
to in the last few minutes. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:44 | |
Let's take a look: | 0:54:44 | 0:54:48 | |
Mr Speaker this is not a game. This
is the most important set of | 0:54:48 | 0:54:51 | |
decision this is country has taken
for decades. They need to be | 0:54:51 | 0:54:54 | |
subjected to proper scrutiny. In my
experience, the biggest mistakes are | 0:54:54 | 0:54:59 | |
made when decisions are not
scrutinised. Can I remind the | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
minister and the Secretary of State
that until this House passed the | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
motion on 1st November, ministers
routinely claimed that these | 0:55:07 | 0:55:10 | |
analysis were extensive and there
are at thattive. -- and | 0:55:10 | 0:55:17 | |
authoritative. They say they have
put them together. In September they | 0:55:17 | 0:55:22 | |
answered a free dom of information
question. We were clear that the | 0:55:22 | 0:55:29 | |
documents did not exist in the form
requested. We've collated | 0:55:29 | 0:55:33 | |
information in the way that doesn't
include some sensitive material but | 0:55:33 | 0:55:36 | |
the documents which he freely admits
he hasn't seen, do not contain | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
redactions. It is noticeable that
the original suggestion of | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
redactions in the debate on 1st
November, came from him. And came | 0:55:43 | 0:55:49 | |
from him speaking for the front
bench of the Opposition. He said in | 0:55:49 | 0:55:51 | |
the debate he had accepted all along
with the Government should not put | 0:55:51 | 0:55:55 | |
into the public domain any
information that woop undermine our | 0:55:55 | 0:55:58 | |
negotiating position and that he
accepts that there is a level of | 0:55:58 | 0:56:02 | |
detail and confidential issues and
tactics that should not be | 0:56:02 | 0:56:04 | |
discussed. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:14 | |
Robin Walker and Kier sfarmer there. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:19 | |
-- Kier Starmer. | 0:56:19 | 0:56:21 | |
There's just time before we go
to find out the answer to our quiz - | 0:56:21 | 0:56:24 | |
Douglas Chapman, the SNP MP
for Dunfermline & West Fife has | 0:56:24 | 0:56:27 | |
suggested that we should
have an ambassador to where? | 0:56:27 | 0:56:28 | |
We'll ask Douglas because we have
him down the line. We can talk about | 0:56:33 | 0:56:36 | |
it. But do you know what the answer
is, Owen? I'll go for a wild card, | 0:56:36 | 0:56:41 | |
is it Mars? No, funnily enough. That
got a laugh out of Douglas Chapman. | 0:56:41 | 0:56:46 | |
Can you give us the correct answer?
It is on the actic. Why do you want | 0:56:46 | 0:56:53 | |
an ambassador to the Arctic? To
create a greater focus around Arctic | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 | |
issues. I think we had our
contoastic conference in Edinburgh | 0:56:57 | 0:57:03 | |
this time last week talking about
how we can collaborate more with the | 0:57:03 | 0:57:07 | |
Arctic nations to secure issues
around the environment and energy | 0:57:07 | 0:57:12 | |
and you know there are economic
opportunities there, that we need to | 0:57:12 | 0:57:14 | |
manage and steward in a way that
protects the environment. So there | 0:57:14 | 0:57:19 | |
is lots of different reasons, and as
you have discussed with Julian | 0:57:19 | 0:57:23 | |
Lewis, on issues around defence and
security, so there is a whole range | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
of issues we think, having an Arctic
ambassador would make sure there was | 0:57:26 | 0:57:31 | |
a complete focus on the area and
making sure that our relationships | 0:57:31 | 0:57:35 | |
with Arctic countries are spot on.
And where would this embassy be? | 0:57:35 | 0:57:40 | |
Well, I think it's more a post for
an individual. What about you? Well, | 0:57:40 | 0:57:45 | |
thanks very much for the offer of a
job... Not in my gift actually, | 0:57:45 | 0:57:51 | |
anyway... I have an important job
being an MP. But nevertheless, there | 0:57:51 | 0:57:56 | |
is eminently qualified people out
there who can fulfil this role and | 0:57:56 | 0:57:59 | |
while we do have ambassadors for the
UK in the likes of Norway and | 0:57:59 | 0:58:03 | |
Iceland and so on, somebody who is
focussed on Arctic issues, would be | 0:58:03 | 0:58:07 | |
a great bonus and would give us a
level of credibility amongst other | 0:58:07 | 0:58:12 | |
Arctic nations to make sure they
knew we were serious about taking | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
the Arctic seriously. So when is
this debate? Tomorrow, 11.00. I'm | 0:58:16 | 0:58:19 | |
hoping we will hear from the
minister, and while I'm not | 0:58:19 | 0:58:24 | |
expecting him to give a big thumbs
up and a big yes to this, I hope it | 0:58:24 | 0:58:29 | |
puts the idea in his head and that
we can make some progress over the | 0:58:29 | 0:58:32 | |
next few years. Right, Douglas
Chapman, thank you very much. Do you | 0:58:32 | 0:58:35 | |
like the idea? It is a bit nippy, as
it is. I have cold ears in on the | 0:58:35 | 0:58:41 | |
way. You need the correct clothes.
That's what they say. Douglas | 0:58:41 | 0:58:45 | |
Chapman thank you very much and
thanks to all of my guests today in | 0:58:45 | 0:58:48 | |
the warm studio, particularly to you
Owen Jones for being guest of the | 0:58:48 | 0:58:51 | |
day. | 0:58:51 | 0:59:01 |