Browse content similar to 18/12/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:44 | |
Theresa May gathers the Cabinet's
big beasts to talk about the UK's | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
post-Brexit relationship with the EU
- will they be able | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
to agree a way forward? | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
A "culture change" is needed
to ensure safety is prioritised over | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
costs in the construction industry -
that's according to the author | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
of an interim report
into the catastrophic | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
Grenfell fire disaster. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
Are poor regulations
still putting residents | 0:01:06 | 0:01:07 | |
of tall buildings at risk? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
Labour had all women shortlists
in 1997 to increase the number | 0:01:09 | 0:01:19 | |
of female MPs, so why not introduce
all-disabled shortlists to get more | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
disabled people into parliament? | 0:01:21 | 0:01:23 | |
We'll hear from the campaigner
who says that's exactly | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
what should be done. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
OK you can vm buttercup. Not sure
what mum will say about it. That | 0:01:28 | 0:01:33 | |
Theresa May is how to negotiate. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
And some say British
Politics has been a bit | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
like Pantomime this year -
so that's where we're taking | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
the Daily Politics later... | 0:01:42 | 0:01:48 | |
All that in the next hour
of knock-about yuletide | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
entertainment for the whole family. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:56 | |
And joining us for the duration,
Labour's pantomime Dame, | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
Stephen Kinnock, and Westminster's
Prince Charming, Suella Fernandes. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:00 | |
Welcome to the show. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:05 | |
So, Theresa May has
another busy week ahead | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
in the run up to Christmas. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:12 | |
Following the agreement in Brussels
last week that 'sufficient progress' | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
had been made on Phase One talks,
the Prime Minister will today be | 0:02:16 | 0:02:20 | |
meeting with her 'Brexit cabinet'
to discuss the next phase. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
But tomorrow, she will meet
with the whole Cabinet to discuss | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
the 'end-state' for the UK's
relationship with the EU | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
and they aren't exactly singing
from the same hymn sheet. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:36 | |
Her Chancellor, Philip Hammond,
said that the UK's relationship | 0:02:36 | 0:02:39 | |
with the EU would be 'largely
unchanged' and that we will | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
'effectively recreate
the status quo'. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
Boris Johnson, meanwhile,
believes the UK needs something | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
'new and ambitious' giving 'zero
tariffs and frictionless trade' | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
as well as the 'freedom
to decide our own regulatory | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
framework'. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:55 | |
Theresa May herself has said
that she wants a 'new, | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
deep and special partnership'
with the EU and ruled out | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
EEA-style membership. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
The EU have their own ideas
for Brexit, where the EU's chief | 0:03:02 | 0:03:07 | |
negotiator Michel Barnier said
there is 'no way' the UK will be | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
allowed to 'cherry-pick'
and have a bespoke deal with the EU. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:14 | |
Jeremy Corbyn is also under pressure
from his Shadow Cabinet over | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
the issue of a second referendum. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:22 | |
'The Labour Party does not
support' one, claimed | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
But on the same topic,
Deputy Leader Tom Watson said | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
'you shouldn't rule anything out'. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
Let's speak to our political
correspondent, Ben Wright. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
Another busy Brexit week. What will
be agreed and changed this week? | 0:03:36 | 0:03:41 | |
Very little I think. These are
preliminary discussions by the | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
Cabinet. Amazingly, it is the first
time that the Cabinet has formally | 0:03:44 | 0:03:49 | |
got together and talked about its
view regarding the final trading | 0:03:49 | 0:03:54 | |
position the Government wants
between the EU and the UK after | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
Brexit. 18 months on from the
referendum. This easy are | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
discussions which might make the
discussions around phase one, the | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
money, the rights of EU citizens
look like a picnic. There are big | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
disagreements within the Cabinet
about the fundamental trading | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
relationship the UK should look for.
There is also a big disagreement at | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
the moment, it seems, between the UK
and the EU's starting points. The | 0:04:16 | 0:04:21 | |
UK, Theresa May is clear she wants
something bespoke, something which | 0:04:21 | 0:04:27 | |
combined Norwegian-style access with
a Canadian style trade agreement. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
The EU say that is not on the cards.
You have to take something based on | 0:04:31 | 0:04:36 | |
a model which exists. They are
starting far apart. Time is short. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:40 | |
The EU will come forward with their
proposal, their starting position by | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
March. So the Government has to work
pretty quickly on this. What about | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
the Cabinet? How far apart are they
in terms of that future | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
relationship? Well, we believe there
are some significant differences, | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
crucially around the question of how
much convergence there should be | 0:04:58 | 0:05:03 | |
with the EU's regulatory system
after Brexit. At the moment there is | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
complete convergence because we are
in the single market. The | 0:05:06 | 0:05:10 | |
fundamental issue is how much EU,
sorry our Cabinet ministers are | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
willing to accept that in the
future, after we have left, the two, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:17 | |
well the EU and the UK will start to
diverge and how that will be | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
managed. What mechanisms will be in
place. This is big fundamental | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
stuff. I think there are those on
Philip Hammond's side of the | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
argument who want as much single
market access as possible, with the | 0:05:30 | 0:05:35 | |
po ten sham conditions and --
potential conditions. And others | 0:05:35 | 0:05:41 | |
like Michael Gove who want more of a
clean break and as a consequence | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
have more freedom for the UK to do
trade deals as a country no longer | 0:05:45 | 0:05:51 | |
in the European Union. There are
fundamental differences on how they | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
will approach this question. Thank
you very much. | 0:05:54 | 0:06:00 | |
Suella Fernandes, Philip Hammond
said our future relationship with EU | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
will leave us largely unchanged and
effectively recreate the status quo. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
Do you agree with him? In some
respects there will be things we | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
want to maintain with tesmt U. We
want to maintain our commerce with | 0:06:13 | 0:06:18 | |
the EU. We with are one of the
biggest customers to EU countries of | 0:06:18 | 0:06:24 | |
their goods. We want to keep that
going. But there are definitely | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
areas that we will want to diverge
on. We want to come out of the | 0:06:28 | 0:06:33 | |
common commercial policy which
restricts our ability to design our | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
own trade vision for the UK. Philip
Hammond was saying that in reality | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
won't happen. He said the UK won't
technically or legal I will be in | 0:06:40 | 0:06:48 | |
the customs union or single market.
But we have committed the agreement | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
at the end of last week an
environment which will effectively | 0:06:51 | 0:06:56 | |
recreate the status quo - what we
have now. To correct you the | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
Chancellor has said we will be
leaving the customs union. That is | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
what he said. He has said we will
leave, we will leave the single | 0:07:03 | 0:07:08 | |
market. Technically and legally, but
in reality it will be effective I | 0:07:08 | 0:07:13 | |
will be the same? The effect of
leaving the customs union is we will | 0:07:13 | 0:07:17 | |
have freedom over our trade policy.
We will not be bound by the common | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
commercial policy. We will not be
subject to the common external | 0:07:22 | 0:07:27 | |
tariff which applies to goods coming
into the EU. Will we during the | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
transition period? The
implementation period, I should say, | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
which is all contingent on what the
end state is. So it is almost | 0:07:36 | 0:07:42 | |
impossible to design an
implementation period before you've | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
agreed the final outcome. That is
all subject to negotiations. You | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
signed letter in September saying
the UK must not pay into the EU | 0:07:49 | 0:07:55 | |
budget during the implementation
period and must be able to sign free | 0:07:55 | 0:07:59 | |
trade deals from March 2019, but we
will pay into the EU budge and we | 0:07:59 | 0:08:05 | |
will not be able to -- EU budget and
we will not be able to sign trade | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
deals in 2019. I didn't sign a
letter. A letter was circulated, | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
asking for support from Conservative
MPs to back those points. Yes. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
What's been agreed is we are going
to be contributing as part of the | 0:08:19 | 0:08:24 | |
financial settlement, which has been
agreed by Theresa May. I suppose the | 0:08:24 | 0:08:28 | |
agreement that's come forward in the
last week or so from Theresa May. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
That represents progress. It enables
us to move on to the next stage and | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
nothing is agreed until everything
is agreed. That is a crucial part of | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
the whole deal. You have accepted
that we will pay into the EU budget | 0:08:40 | 0:08:45 | |
and not be able to sign the free
trade agreements in March 2019? No, | 0:08:45 | 0:08:50 | |
we are making contributions as are
legally required by us under the | 0:08:50 | 0:08:58 | |
financial framework and other
basises founded in law. We will be | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
leaving the customs union in 2019.
As we will hear from Theresa May | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
later today, or from the Government
later today, there will be clarity | 0:09:05 | 0:09:10 | |
on what our position is in terms of
designing that trade deal. Otherwise | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
the work of Liam Fox is redundant. A
whole department has been set up, | 0:09:15 | 0:09:20 | |
extensive energies have been put
into scoping out our potential deals | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
with other third party countries.
All of that is necessary and it's | 0:09:24 | 0:09:29 | |
not in vain. The Prime Minister
herself took a trip to India very | 0:09:29 | 0:09:33 | |
recently on a mission to look at
what option there are for a trade | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
deal. None of that means anything if
we are not out of the customs union | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
and not look at trade deals after
2019. So look at trade deals but | 0:09:42 | 0:09:49 | |
there will not be any signed until
March 2019? I open to what, I will | 0:09:49 | 0:09:55 | |
not sit here and tie the Prime
Minister's hands on anything. This | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
is all subject to negotiation. What
is agreed, is clear Government | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
policy and garnered the unanimous
support of the Government is we are | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
leaving these blocks which do tie
our hands, which do restrict us from | 0:10:08 | 0:10:13 | |
exploring other trade routes. You
did set out some red lines | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
beforehand, so you will not make
that a red line about Britain | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
signing free trade deals during the
next few years? I think it is very | 0:10:20 | 0:10:25 | |
important that we are, after 2019,
able to make concrete progress, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:31 | |
tangible progress and advanced
negotiations with other countries | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
outside the EU. That is one of the
biggest prizes that we stand to gain | 0:10:34 | 0:10:39 | |
from our departure from the EU. I am
confident that the Government is | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
pursuing that aim as well. Do you
think Brexit has actually been | 0:10:43 | 0:10:47 | |
softened up in the last few weeks? I
think we have seen a series of | 0:10:47 | 0:10:52 | |
reality checks and the Government's
approach to Brexit has been a | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
mixture of bluster, posture and then
capitulate. They have an agreement. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
But every single red line goes up in
smoke when it comes to the first | 0:11:00 | 0:11:06 | |
contangt with reality. First --
contact with reality. They said the | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
divorce talks should be in parallel
with the trade talks. That row was | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
going to be the row of the summer.
It lasted until about lunch time on | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
the first day. They now recognise
the need for a transition deal limit | 0:11:17 | 0:11:23 | |
be a carbon copy of the status quo.
The only thing we will not have is a | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
seat at the table. If that is to
take back control I am not sure what | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
it means. We know that the Prime
Minister is sticking to her guns | 0:11:32 | 0:11:36 | |
that she set out in Lancashire
house. The UK will leave the single | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
market and will leave the Customs
Union and she will not sign up or | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
sign the country up to anything that
looks like the European Economic | 0:11:45 | 0:11:49 | |
Area. That is not going to happen.
The transition deal will be a carbon | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
copy of the deal. That is not up for
negotiation. The European Union has | 0:11:53 | 0:11:57 | |
been clear, if you read the... She
said not part of the European | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
Economic Area. Beyond the transition
which could last longer than two | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
years, by the way, I think that is
up for negotiation. I think that we | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
would, we would be much better off
committing to the European Economic | 0:12:10 | 0:12:13 | |
Area. It does actually give you
maximum market access but also the | 0:12:13 | 0:12:18 | |
opportunity to control free movement
of labour. Articles 112 and 113 of | 0:12:18 | 0:12:24 | |
the EEA agreement set that out
clearly. David Cameron failed to get | 0:12:24 | 0:12:28 | |
further when it come to migration.
Do you think the Labour Party is | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
moving to your position now, beyond
the implementation period of | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
actually remaining in the single
market and the Customs Union in some | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
sort of replica to the area? The
European Economic Area is not the | 0:12:39 | 0:12:49 | |
same as, you are not subject to...
You cannot sign the free trade? If | 0:12:49 | 0:12:55 | |
you move into EFTA as well, European
free trade association, they can | 0:12:55 | 0:13:02 | |
sign bilateral free trade deals.
Iceland has a trade deal with China. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
We have to understand there is a way
through this. It is about squaring | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
the circle between market access and
regulatory control. EFTA ETA is the | 0:13:11 | 0:13:17 | |
best way to do that. There is a
majority for it in Parliament. I | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
hope that is the way to do it
otherwise we will go off the edge of | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
a cliff. Do you think that is
acceptable, bearing in mind the | 0:13:25 | 0:13:29 | |
referendum? To my mind it is not
acceptable. That has been ruled out | 0:13:29 | 0:13:33 | |
by the Prime Minister, because with
that coming free movement of people | 0:13:33 | 0:13:39 | |
and that was an important aspect.
You say that article 112 is a | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
mechanism to control free movement T
only example is Lichtenstein, a | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
population of 37,000 people. A very
small mileage of Square Mileage of | 0:13:48 | 0:13:54 | |
space and used in very exceptional
circumstances, where there was a | 0:13:54 | 0:14:00 | |
serious risk to the economy of the
society in which case controls over | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
migration were allowed. It is not
the same as Britain's population - | 0:14:04 | 0:14:10 | |
65 million people, a larger
landmass. It is an emergency... We | 0:14:10 | 0:14:15 | |
cannot say there is a serious risk
posed by EU migrants. Our employment | 0:14:15 | 0:14:20 | |
is very high. I don't think 112,
what you make out is a viable option | 0:14:20 | 0:14:27 | |
for the UK. Isn't it the case we
could end newspaper a situation | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
where the UK becomes a vasel state
of the EU. We take all the rules and | 0:14:32 | 0:14:37 | |
regulations but we don't have any
input. We don't sit at the table? | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
Two points T transition period we
will take absolutely everything from | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
the single market and the Customs
union, we will not have a seat at | 0:14:45 | 0:14:49 | |
the table. I campaigned passionately
for remain. I think it is a great | 0:14:49 | 0:14:54 | |
pity that the UK will not stay in
the EU. What do we do now we must | 0:14:54 | 0:15:00 | |
respect the result of the
referendum? There is a way through | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
this, which does actually give us a
real opportunity to reform free | 0:15:03 | 0:15:08 | |
movement of labour but also doesn't
wreck the British economy by coming | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
out of the single, out of access
from the single market. What is | 0:15:11 | 0:15:16 | |
Labour's policy on having a second
referendum? | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
We're not supporting a second
referendum, there are valid reasons | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
for not supporting one, if it was
52% remain, 48% lead, we would have | 0:15:28 | 0:15:34 | |
expected those on the Leeds side to
accept the result. White is deputy | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
leader Tom Watson think that nothing
should be ruled out when it comes to | 0:15:37 | 0:15:43 | |
a second referendum? When the facts
change, I change my mind, is the | 0:15:43 | 0:15:49 | |
saying. New facts are coming out
tonight. If we leave the EU, if we | 0:15:49 | 0:15:55 | |
leave in March 2019, and we see a
massive damaging impact on the | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
economy, which many people predict
would be the case, I do not believe | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
so much and forecasting predictions,
I think we had to see where we are | 0:16:02 | 0:16:07 | |
but we are seeing thousands of jobs
going down the drain, we are seeing | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
foreign direct investment drying up
and seeing market access being | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
severely limited. Then you would
change your mind? Any responsible | 0:16:15 | 0:16:21 | |
government, whoever is in government
at the time, is the responsibility | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
of them to act in the national
interest. Michel Barnier, Suella, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
said that the government would not
get a bespoke deal. UK cannot cherry | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
pick, we cannot have a no way of
style agreement without freedom of | 0:16:32 | 0:16:38 | |
movement and aspects of the Canada
deal taking in services. What do you | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
say to him? This is the first time
that a nation has left the EU. I | 0:16:42 | 0:16:47 | |
think that we have to be open to
building what might not be... There | 0:16:47 | 0:16:53 | |
might not be a particular model for
it but I do think that Canada, that | 0:16:53 | 0:16:59 | |
agreement struck with the EU last
year, I think it does provide some | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
really good grounds for optimism. He
says you are not going to have that? | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
Well, I don't know. He says that
that it depends on a lot of people | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
involved in the process. The Canada
agreement was mutually signed up to | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
by both sides. It is beneficial for
both. But it did not take in | 0:17:15 | 0:17:20 | |
services? That's true, and that is
why we cannot just copy and paste | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
Canada and say that it applies to
the UK. It does have some good | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
points, like an illumination of some
tariffs but it does not quite cover | 0:17:28 | 0:17:35 | |
services. 80% of our economy is
services. That's a great opportunity | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
for us. Are you worried that we will
not get it? I'm not worried at all. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:46 | |
I'm very optimistic, contrary to how
Stephen feels. I think there has | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
been huge progress made in showing
both sides want to strike an | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
agreement on what has been said to
be complex issues. I think it bodes | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
well for the future. And what do you
make of the arguments that some of | 0:17:57 | 0:18:02 | |
your colleagues should be deselected
for rebelling on the EU withdrawal | 0:18:02 | 0:18:05 | |
bill last week, are you supportive
of that? No, I am not. I think they | 0:18:05 | 0:18:10 | |
are our colleagues and I take them
at face value. They've said that | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
they wanted to improve legislation,
it is disappointing that the | 0:18:14 | 0:18:18 | |
government lost the vote on
amendments seven, but I do think | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
that we can all move forward. It's a
continued dialogue and the | 0:18:22 | 0:18:27 | |
government is listening to many
members who had tabled amendments, | 0:18:27 | 0:18:31 | |
responding substantively and, as a
result, producing a bill which I | 0:18:31 | 0:18:36 | |
think reflects many concerns in
Parliament. Say you do not see them | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
as traitors? I do not think it is
fair to demonise them at all for | 0:18:40 | 0:18:46 | |
carrying out something they feel
passionate about. Did your | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
constituents vote for a continuation
on what Labour is calling the free | 0:18:50 | 0:18:56 | |
movement of easy people, if that's
what it means? No, for those who | 0:18:56 | 0:19:01 | |
voted Leave, there were concerns
about free movement of labour, but | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
there is a real opportunity through
the economic area to pull the | 0:19:05 | 0:19:10 | |
emergency brake and put a reformed
system in place. There is clear | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
legal precedent for doing this and
we would be coming out of the EU, so | 0:19:13 | 0:19:18 | |
really negotiating on a different
basis to the one that David Cameron | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
was trying to push through back in
2016. I think there is a way of | 0:19:21 | 0:19:28 | |
allaying concerns but we need a
sensible and pragmatic approach, not | 0:19:28 | 0:19:33 | |
one driven by the ideology of
certain backbenchers in the | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
Conservative Party. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
And for more reporting
and analysis of Brexit, | 0:19:39 | 0:19:40 | |
check out the BBC News website
- that's bbc.co.uk/Brexit. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
A month after the Grenfell tragedy
the government set up an independent | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
inquiry into the risks of living
in a tower block. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
Today preliminary results of that
inquiry are being published. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
The report's author,
Dame Judith Hackitt says a "culture | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
change" is needed to ensure safety
is prioritised over costs | 0:19:54 | 0:19:56 | |
in the construction industry,
that building regulations | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
are confusing and the profession
suffers from "competence" issues. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:08 | |
The interim report tells us that
what we have in place today is a | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
system which is evolved
over a number of years, | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
it's overly complex,
and that complexity doesn't lead to | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
it being as effective
as it needs to be. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:24 | |
We're talking about a system where
there's too much | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
prescription, where there is a very
heavily layered system of guidance | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
currently, which is not helpful
in terms of leading people | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
to the right answer. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
So, my aim for the future
is to create a much simpler and more | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
straightforward system that would be
easier for people to follow. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:44 | |
But that needs to be
re-enforced with a | 0:20:44 | 0:20:46 | |
number of changes in behaviour,
which will include a major culture | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
change across all of
the players in this. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:59 | |
And the Chairman of the Local
Government Association, | 0:21:02 | 0:21:03 | |
Gary Porter, joins us now. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:08 | |
Why is it so complicated at the
moment? It's the way that the | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
regulation and guidance has been
drafted. We have several years of | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
additional regulation and guidance
being added, and no simplification. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
It's been a problem since 2006. Is
it going to be easy for local | 0:21:19 | 0:21:25 | |
authorities? Are they in a position
to change the rules or at least put | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
into practice recommendations? We
cannot change the rules, the | 0:21:29 | 0:21:33 | |
government has too. Ayew in a
position to implement them? Where we | 0:21:33 | 0:21:37 | |
we do do building control, they will
be renewed. Within a week or two of | 0:21:37 | 0:21:44 | |
the fire, we called for the
regulations to be looked at. It was | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
clear from test results coming in
that there was a systemic failure | 0:21:48 | 0:21:51 | |
across the country, that cannot be
down to one or two individuals that | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
were incompetent but the system
being wrong. Or were regulations | 0:21:55 | 0:22:01 | |
interpreted to suit themselves? I
have only quickly read the report, | 0:22:01 | 0:22:05 | |
the draft report. And out of the
recommendations, there's only one I | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
would disagree with not being strong
enough, that's the ability for the | 0:22:08 | 0:22:13 | |
industry to do desktop surveys and
do a study not of real materials in | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
real life circumstances but on
computer modelling. That's one of | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
the areas where we need to get to
grips with this. Put in limited | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
combustible materials on high-rise
buildings will be full of | 0:22:25 | 0:22:32 | |
difficulty. It's not for me to
rewrite the rules but no | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
combustibility. None at all but will
that be what happens? I doubt it. Do | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
you get what you pay for when it
comes to these sorts of things? | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
Definitely not. In some cases, some
of the materials used would be more | 0:22:44 | 0:22:49 | |
expensive and more dangerous. This
isn't about cost-cutting, that's a | 0:22:49 | 0:22:55 | |
red herring. Anybody who thinks that
these buyers take place because | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
people are saving money on materials
used are incorrect. Do you accept | 0:22:58 | 0:23:03 | |
that? That it isn't just about
money? I think we've had a culture | 0:23:03 | 0:23:09 | |
of privatisation of contracting out
austerity. It creates a toxic | 0:23:09 | 0:23:14 | |
combination which, I do not know
whether there is a direct link from | 0:23:14 | 0:23:19 | |
that culture to the tragic events of
Grenfell. But I welcome what the | 0:23:19 | 0:23:24 | |
report says about the need for a
culture change. I do think our | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
public services need the resources
and empowerment to be able to take | 0:23:27 | 0:23:34 | |
control of the process because the
more you contract it out, the higher | 0:23:34 | 0:23:39 | |
the risks to come. But we have heard
that you can have more expensive | 0:23:39 | 0:23:45 | |
materials and they can be more
combustible. The link that you are | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
talking about, if you cannot see a
link between austerity and safety, | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
why mention it? I think it is how it
is managed and implemented. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:58 | |
Companies will look to cut corners
to cut costs, not in terms of | 0:23:58 | 0:24:04 | |
materials but how they do their job.
Can I refuse that point, there are | 0:24:04 | 0:24:10 | |
no councils in this country who
would endanger their lives of their | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
residents to save a few pounds. No
matter how hard done by and the fact | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
that we are a couple of billion
short on what we need to deliver | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
services properly, fire safety is
not an area that councils would | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
compromise on. More buildings in the
private sector are at risk of this | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
than councils alone. There are 15
councils with buildings caught up in | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
this. That's not to downplay that it
is 15 councils but that's out of | 0:24:34 | 0:24:39 | |
400. The vast majority of buildings
affected by this fire, and going | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
beyond this fire, they have safety
concerns with high-rise buildings | 0:24:42 | 0:24:46 | |
and will be in the private sector.
So it isn't a case of public versus | 0:24:46 | 0:24:52 | |
private, but private sector
buildings, or people who own their | 0:24:52 | 0:24:57 | |
own homes, they are in as much risk?
In the case of Grenfell, there were | 0:24:57 | 0:25:03 | |
a lot of red flags bring down by the
residents and they felt that there | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
were things happening in that
building which caused serious | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
concerns and action was not taken. I
think the key challenge we have is | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
making sure that accountability is
right, that the report looks at this | 0:25:16 | 0:25:22 | |
in the broadest possible terms, and
we never see the awful and tragic | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
mistakes happening and Grenfell ever
again. Stephen has a point in so far | 0:25:26 | 0:25:32 | |
as until October this year, they had
not released funds to make tower | 0:25:32 | 0:25:37 | |
blocks safe according to some
councils when asking for funding for | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
cladding and sprinklers. Why not? To
date, I know that the government has | 0:25:40 | 0:25:47 | |
responded extensively. There's
nothing anyone can do to bring back | 0:25:47 | 0:25:51 | |
the people who died. But they have
not responded? The government set up | 0:25:51 | 0:26:00 | |
a fund where if councils need help
setting up installations there is a | 0:26:00 | 0:26:06 | |
process where they can go to
government and requests would be | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
considered. I think that is the
right thing to do. Are you reassured | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
that there are not tower blocks in
this country that are still at risk | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
from these kinds of fires? There are
people living in tower blocks that | 0:26:16 | 0:26:22 | |
are in danger? I am reassured that
tower blocks in the ownership of | 0:26:22 | 0:26:27 | |
councils and housing associations
have been identified and appropriate | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
measures have been taken in the
interim, like fire wardens with | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
24-hour cover, one with a fire
engine permanently outside of the | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
building. The ones the state owns, I
am perfectly comfortable that we are | 0:26:38 | 0:26:43 | |
doing as much as we can to make it
safe but the vast majority of | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
buildings in the private sector, and
some that we do not know where they | 0:26:46 | 0:26:53 | |
are. We have called for those who
did the testing to release all of | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
the test failures they have got.
They are refusing to release test | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
failures. We do not know which
materials are safe and what | 0:27:00 | 0:27:07 | |
buildings are clouded with which
materials. The report from Judith | 0:27:07 | 0:27:12 | |
Hackitt describes a mindset of doing
things as cheaply as possible, and | 0:27:12 | 0:27:17 | |
passing on responsibility for
problems and shortcomings to others. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:19 | |
What do you say to that? I would
refute that. That is what she has | 0:27:19 | 0:27:25 | |
found. As a private sector person as
well, I can guarantee that councils | 0:27:25 | 0:27:32 | |
around the country are paying more
than the private sector equivalent. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
Let's not look at the equivalent,
are you trying to do things as | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
cheaply as possible because, in all
fairness, councils claim they have | 0:27:39 | 0:27:43 | |
had budgets cut to the bone? As
efficiently as possible, not as | 0:27:43 | 0:27:47 | |
cheaply. Is that value for money? In
the report, as it comes out, if she | 0:27:47 | 0:27:54 | |
implicates councils on the basis of
saving a penny to risk a pound, that | 0:27:54 | 0:28:02 | |
is not what councils do. They take a
long-term view of the investment | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
they make in those homes. Grenfell
had £8 million invested in it. If | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
they were not spending money on the
building, the fire would not have | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
happened. What do you say about the
efficiency of councils? And the one | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
that oversaw the Grenfell Tower?
Obviously there is a real need to | 0:28:15 | 0:28:21 | |
ensure that standards are met, which
is why a review of what standards | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
are applicable is necessary. If
those standards are higher than what | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
is currently in place there's an
added burden on councils to meet | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
requirements. Should the government
put fans behind it? This funding is | 0:28:33 | 0:28:39 | |
available on a discretionary basis
but if this is council owned | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
property, tenanted out to
individuals, then there is a burden | 0:28:43 | 0:28:48 | |
on councils to undertake that cost.
Would you be happy to do that? As | 0:28:48 | 0:28:55 | |
part of day-to-day cost pressures,
councils should account for that and | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
it should be done so through the
rent book. Unexpected issues, that | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
is an unexpected issue, nobody would
have covered that building and | 0:29:03 | 0:29:07 | |
expected that, the government will
have to mobilise funds, even if it | 0:29:07 | 0:29:11 | |
is only with the local and national
governments standing shoulder to | 0:29:11 | 0:29:17 | |
shoulder, suing those who have
broken rules to make it happen, this | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
is not going to be about a few
million or even today's numbers of 1 | 0:29:20 | 0:29:25 | |
billion, this will be into billions
before we'd managed to resolve the | 0:29:25 | 0:29:28 | |
issue from across the whole country.
It's the most serious issue facing | 0:29:28 | 0:29:33 | |
our housing stock since before the
war. Is the Treasury prepared to put | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
out this money? As I've said, the
funding is available and | 0:29:36 | 0:29:42 | |
case-by-case councils can make
applications. There's that backdrop | 0:29:42 | 0:29:48 | |
but as Gary recognises comedy
private sector and private rented | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
properties in the whole area, which
are as of yet unidentified, we do | 0:29:51 | 0:29:54 | |
not know the extent to which fire
safety regulations are being met. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
Gary Porter, thank you. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
Now, Theresa May told the Commons
last week that she wanted to make | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
sure that disabled people who wanted
to work are able to do so. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:07 | |
But do disabled people feel able
to go into political life and why | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
are so few of them represented
in our parliaments, assemblies | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
and council chambers? | 0:30:12 | 0:30:13 | |
Here's disability rights campaigner,
Alice Kirby, with her soapbox. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:23 | |
Let's go next door for
Prime Minister's Questions. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
Thank you, Mr Speaker. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
At the last election,
the Liberal Democrats made history | 0:30:28 | 0:30:32 | |
by becoming the first political
party to select | 0:30:32 | 0:30:36 | |
a candidate using an all-disabled
shortlist, now we need every | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
political party
to follow their lead. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
There are over 30 million
disabled people in the UK. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:45 | |
That
means we make up 21% | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
of the British population, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
but only six of our MPs define
themselves as disabled, that | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
is less than 1% of
the House of Commons. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
And that's just not good enough. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
But the solution is simple. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:03 | |
All disabled shortlists
counter the over and | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
subconscious prejudice
that | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
blocks disabled people
from getting elected, | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
or even putting themselves | 0:31:11 | 0:31:12 | |
forward in the first place. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:15 | |
Some people say we
should just choose the | 0:31:15 | 0:31:17 | |
best people for the job. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:19 | |
You can still do that,
it's just the people | 0:31:19 | 0:31:21 | |
being picked are disabled. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:28 | |
And the word disabled
is not a synonym for | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
incompetent, incapable or unskilled. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:36 | |
In the 1990s, the Labour Party
revolutionised politics by adopting | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
all-women shortlists. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:43 | |
It was controversial
at the time but it | 0:31:43 | 0:31:46 | |
clearly worked, as there are more
women than ever in the Commons | 0:31:46 | 0:31:50 | |
and not only in seats
where they are used, | 0:31:50 | 0:31:52 | |
and not only by parties who | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
use them, because they've brought
about a cultural change. | 0:31:56 | 0:32:02 | |
Disabled people do not
need mouthpieces or | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
champions, we need MPs and ministers
who truly understand the | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
discrimination we face. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:12 | |
Politicians need to
reflect wider society. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
It's time MPs started
truly representing | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
the UK's biggest minority group. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:23 | |
And Alice Kirby joins us now
from our Sheffield studio. | 0:32:23 | 0:32:30 | |
Alice, it is your position that
Parliament can only truly represent | 0:32:30 | 0:32:34 | |
disabled people if the Commons is a
complete microcosm of wider society? | 0:32:34 | 0:32:39 | |
That needs to be the goal. If we
look at, it seems like we're always | 0:32:39 | 0:32:45 | |
aiming to have gender equality in
the Commons. I don't see why it | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
should be different for disabled
people. Do do you accept there may | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
be more than six MPs who may not be
visually disabled they may have | 0:32:52 | 0:32:59 | |
dyslexia or hard of hearing and they
are aware of the many struggles that | 0:32:59 | 0:33:04 | |
disabled people face as a result? We
only know of six MPs who have said | 0:33:04 | 0:33:10 | |
they are publically disabled. Are
probably more. That speaks to a | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
larger issue of why politicians are
not comfortable saying they are | 0:33:15 | 0:33:19 | |
disable and is it because of this
culture of disability that makes you | 0:33:19 | 0:33:24 | |
weak and not a good politician?
Something like an all-disabled short | 0:33:24 | 0:33:30 | |
list will bring about a cultural
change there, like all-women short | 0:33:30 | 0:33:34 | |
lists, that would make these people
more comfortable being identified as | 0:33:34 | 0:33:39 | |
disabled publically. Do you agree it
would help balance reputation? I | 0:33:39 | 0:33:46 | |
have to say I really want more
disabled people to get involved in | 0:33:46 | 0:33:51 | |
public life and generally
employment. But I do disagree with | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
the principal of all short lists
based on personal characteristics | 0:33:54 | 0:33:59 | |
whether on disability, on gender,
whether it is race or anything else. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
I just feel it doesn't really, it is
not robust enough to enable the best | 0:34:02 | 0:34:09 | |
people to come through. I think that
people don't need favours being | 0:34:09 | 0:34:13 | |
done, they can thrive on a level
playing field with more | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
encouragement and more engagement.
That is really the challenge for us. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
They have not thrived so far. I
would disagree. We have millions | 0:34:21 | 0:34:30 | |
more disabled people in work. We are
seeing progress. That should be | 0:34:30 | 0:34:33 | |
encouraged and built upon rather
than saying short lists for people. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
What do you say in response? . I
don't think so. We have six MPs out | 0:34:37 | 0:34:42 | |
of 650. If there was true reputation
there would be 130 disabled MPs. I | 0:34:42 | 0:34:48 | |
don't see how we will get there
without the help of all disabled | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
short lists. I don't think they are
ideal, we should not use them | 0:34:51 | 0:34:55 | |
long-term, but for now it is the way
forward. When you talk to disabled | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
people, Alice, what are the barriers
they say that put them off trying to | 0:34:59 | 0:35:03 | |
get into Parliament? I think there's
a variety of reasons. I think, comes | 0:35:03 | 0:35:11 | |
back down to discrimination. I don't
feel parties feel confident | 0:35:11 | 0:35:15 | |
selecting disabled people. I don't
think disabled people feel confident | 0:35:15 | 0:35:19 | |
to put themselves forward to be
elected. There is the access to | 0:35:19 | 0:35:25 | |
office fund which provided financial
support for disabled people running | 0:35:25 | 0:35:30 | |
elections to cover adjustments like
taxi fare and sign language | 0:35:30 | 0:35:38 | |
interpreters. A key area would be
job sharing for MPs to allow MPs who | 0:35:38 | 0:35:44 | |
wouldn't be able to work full-time
to still run for office Do you take | 0:35:44 | 0:35:49 | |
the point like funding which would
help accessibility should be | 0:35:49 | 0:35:53 | |
reinstated by the Conservatives? It
is not always about money. It is | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
more about engagement. I think
providing opportunities for work | 0:35:57 | 0:36:03 | |
experience, for internships, for
apprenticeships in Parliament, for | 0:36:03 | 0:36:05 | |
including more people in the party,
whether it is Conservative, Labour, | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
Lib Dems, from a wide variety of
backgrounds should be encouraged. My | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
experience in the Conservative Party
is that people of all abilities are | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
welcome. And we have champions for
disability rights. People who are | 0:36:18 | 0:36:23 | |
disabled and also people who are not
disabled, who don't have to have | 0:36:23 | 0:36:31 | |
those characteristics. The Labour
Party used all-women short lists - | 0:36:31 | 0:36:36 | |
should they do it for disabled
people? It is an interesting idea. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
E-I would like to see it piloted. It
has been. Where? The Liberal | 0:36:39 | 0:36:47 | |
Democrats selected their candidate
from an all-disabled short list. I | 0:36:47 | 0:36:51 | |
would very much like to see it
piloted in the Labour Party. I think | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
it would be, because you are looking
for candidates who have experience | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
of campaigning, knocking on doors.
Ideally a good connection to the | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
local area and political experience.
So we do want to make sure that we | 0:37:04 | 0:37:08 | |
have all of that. Now, as you say
there are 13 million disabled people | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
in this country. So no doubt within
that talent pool we have it. But | 0:37:12 | 0:37:15 | |
there is also a problem with getting
people to come forward into politics | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
in general. I think they look at the
amount of abuse that politicians get | 0:37:18 | 0:37:25 | |
on social media, the very polarised
nature of the political landscape in | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
which we live at the moment, at the
complexity of it. Sometimes the very | 0:37:29 | 0:37:34 | |
long working hours. So there are a
lot of other barriers to getting | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
people into public life. This is an
interesting idea. Perhaps you could | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
work with the Labour Party, help
them do that pilot? I would love to. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:46 | |
So, just seven sleeps
until Christmas and if you're | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
exhausted, you can bet Theresa May
is after the Advent she's had. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
We know there are boy's
jobs and girl's jobs | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
in the May household,
so while Mr May is making the mince | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
pies and wrapping the presents,
the Prime Minister has | 0:38:00 | 0:38:02 | |
the un-enviable task of getting her
cabinet to agree on Brexit. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
the un-enviable task of getting her
Cabinet to agree on Brexit. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
I expect she'd prefer to be peeling
the Brussels sprouts - | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
though maybe she's had
enough of Brussels.... | 0:38:10 | 0:38:17 | |
This afternoon Theresa May
will make a statement | 0:38:17 | 0:38:18 | |
to the Commons on last week's EU
summit in Brussels. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
She'll tell MPs there is a "shared
desire" to make rapid progress. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:27 | |
Tomorrow morning, the Cabinet meets
and it's expected they will discuss | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
for the first time just
what the final deal with the EU | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
should look like, and on Wednesday
MPs will debate whether the date | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
and time should be put on the Brexit
bill, it was expected to be a tricky | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
moment for the government,
however Conservative MPs | 0:38:39 | 0:38:41 | |
are expected to rally around
a compromise amendment | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
proposed by Oliver Letwin. | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
It's a busy day on Wednesday,
because in the afternoon | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
Theresa May is in front
of the Liaison Committee, | 0:38:48 | 0:38:50 | |
made up of chairs of each
of the select committees, | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
it will grill the Prime Minister
on a range of issues. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
Finally, as Parliament
breaks up for Christmas | 0:38:56 | 0:39:03 | |
at the end of this week,
it's likely that at some point | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
we'll finally hear back
from the Cabinet Inquiry into Damian | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
Green. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:10 | |
The First Secretary is being
investigated over claims he made | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
inappropriate advances
towards a political activist | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
and over allegations that
pornography was found on a computer | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
in his office. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:17 | |
And it's wall-to-wall Christmas
parties here in Westminster, | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
but we've managed to drag away two
journalists from the mulled | 0:39:21 | 0:39:26 | |
wine and warm prosecco -
Heather Stewart of the Guardian | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
and the Financial
Times's Sebastian Payne. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
Welcome. What sort of clarity do you
think we will get as a result of | 0:39:32 | 0:39:37 | |
these meetings with the smaller
Cabinet and then the wider Cabinet | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
about Britain's end state with
Europe? To be honest, I fear not | 0:39:40 | 0:39:44 | |
very much. Already those around
Theresa May are playing down the | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
idea that we will get any definite
answer. We may be well into the New | 0:39:47 | 0:39:52 | |
Year before we have anything too
specific. We may get some mood | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
music. We will hear a constructive
discussion and they have bared some | 0:39:56 | 0:40:01 | |
of their differences. I don't think
we will get a clear outline of the | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
trade deal they want to end up with.
Do you agree? Will it be a case our | 0:40:05 | 0:40:10 | |
relationship will remain unchanged
as Philip Hammond has indicated, not | 0:40:10 | 0:40:15 | |
just during the implementation but
beyond? The key question is this | 0:40:15 | 0:40:20 | |
issue of regulatory divergence, how
much ability does the UK want to | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
have to change rules after we leave
the EU? The whole of the Cabinet | 0:40:23 | 0:40:27 | |
wants the ability to change
regulations. The question is, where | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
do we start from? Do we start from a
place of being exactly the same, or | 0:40:30 | 0:40:34 | |
from day one, we will start to heave
regulations out of the window and | 0:40:34 | 0:40:39 | |
cutting that red tape? It will begin
with a constructive discussion, that | 0:40:39 | 0:40:45 | |
is how they will describe it, really
it will not be until mid-or late | 0:40:45 | 0:40:51 | |
January until we have any idea on
where the Cabinet agrees on this | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
issue. There are, there is no
consensus. They have different | 0:40:54 | 0:40:59 | |
opinions on this. Some side will
have to give way. I think the | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
Euro-sceptics have given away so
much on the exit deal. They will be | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
very firm on not giving away too
much on what comes next. We've had a | 0:41:07 | 0:41:12 | |
Government defeat over the
meaningful vote. There is another | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
row expected, although it may have
been defused over the weekend by | 0:41:15 | 0:41:19 | |
offers of a compromise over the date
and time being written on to the | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
face of the bill. Do you think that
has meant the Government is safe in | 0:41:22 | 0:41:27 | |
that vote, Heather? Yes, I think it
probably S it is very odd, this was | 0:41:27 | 0:41:33 | |
an amendment the Government tabled,
to declare to make law that we would | 0:41:33 | 0:41:38 | |
leave in March 2019. That outraged
some of the sort of pro-EU MPs who | 0:41:38 | 0:41:45 | |
felt, hang on, what if we have not
done a deal which that date? What if | 0:41:45 | 0:41:50 | |
the Government needs more days,
isn't it crazy to lock us into that | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
timetable? They looked like they
could face defeat on this. Labour | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
were readying themselves to defeat
the Government. At the end of last | 0:41:58 | 0:42:01 | |
week we had an amendment from Oliver
Letwin, which looks as though | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
probably he was doing that with the
say so of Downing Street. He's | 0:42:04 | 0:42:09 | |
managed to persuade the Brexit
rebels in the Tory Party led by | 0:42:09 | 0:42:21 | |
Dominic Greave. Do we expect the
Government to have that amendment | 0:42:21 | 0:42:26 | |
and hopefully we can go away without
another row. Or another amendment. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:31 | |
We will not have a Christmas
amendment. Let's talk about Theresa | 0:42:31 | 0:42:39 | |
May, Sebastian Payne, because during
this year there were those who | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
thought she wouldn't make it to
Christmas, but she has made it to | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
Christmas as Prime Minister. There
are now reports saying she could be | 0:42:45 | 0:42:49 | |
asked to stay on until 2021 by the
Conservative Party, what do you | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
think of that? It was Jeremy Corbyn
who said he would be in Downing | 0:42:53 | 0:42:58 | |
Street by Christmas. He's not got
long to fulfil that prediction after | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
the general election. This story
does have a lot of sense because the | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
Conservative Party really wants to
try and get as much of Brexit as | 0:43:04 | 0:43:09 | |
locked and loaded before the next
general election in 2022. If Theresa | 0:43:09 | 0:43:13 | |
May stays on to secure that
comprehensive free trade deal they | 0:43:13 | 0:43:17 | |
need to have to make Brexit look
like a success, then see how it | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
goes. The odd thing about Theresa
May is we say this situation is | 0:43:21 | 0:43:26 | |
unsustainable and it proves
sustainably. Over and over again she | 0:43:26 | 0:43:31 | |
hangs on. Will she make it through
next year? And it looks like she | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
will. If she makes it through next
year she will probably make it | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
through until the end of Brexit.
Then it is where the party is at - | 0:43:40 | 0:43:44 | |
how confident is it feeling?
Conservative donors will not let her | 0:43:44 | 0:43:49 | |
fight the general election. So I
think she could go a year or two | 0:43:49 | 0:43:53 | |
years in the run-up to that. They
will not want to take the risk again | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
of putting her in front of the
ballot-box because all of those | 0:43:56 | 0:44:00 | |
problems with her personality and
what have you, are still there. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:06 | |
Thank you very much. Do you think
Theresa May should fight the next | 0:44:06 | 0:44:11 | |
election? I think she should
continue as the leader of the | 0:44:11 | 0:44:15 | |
Conservative Party until she decides
she want to step down. She's proving | 0:44:15 | 0:44:20 | |
all the critics wrong. Everyone
predicts gloom and crisis. Actually | 0:44:20 | 0:44:25 | |
she defies them wrong. We have seen
in the last week how she has managed | 0:44:25 | 0:44:29 | |
to strike this agreement. People
said it would be impossible. She's | 0:44:29 | 0:44:33 | |
managed to bring yun in the party.
-- unity in the party. You would | 0:44:33 | 0:44:40 | |
like to see her there until 2021?
For as long as she wants to stay in | 0:44:40 | 0:44:45 | |
place. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:50 | |
And there's something exciting
coming up this evening - | 0:44:50 | 0:44:52 | |
and it's happening in
this very studio. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:54 | |
My colleague Chris Mason
is here to explain... | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
R We are turning a podcast into a
live event tonight. I know this | 0:44:57 | 0:45:03 | |
studio is well known for the
nerdometer going north-bound... Only | 0:45:03 | 0:45:09 | |
occasionally! It goes to the moon
and back. We are talking Brexit from | 0:45:09 | 0:45:18 | |
45 minutes, from 6. 15pm. Going live
on Radio 5live and on the News | 0:45:18 | 0:45:25 | |
Channel later, and globally
tomorrow. We have Laura and our | 0:45:25 | 0:45:32 | |
Europe editor, Tony Connolly from
RTE, around the issue of the Irish | 0:45:32 | 0:45:38 | |
border and a panel of
Brexit-casters. The people nerdy | 0:45:38 | 0:45:43 | |
enough to devote clicking on their
phone something which says | 0:45:43 | 0:45:49 | |
"Brexit-cast." | 0:45:49 | 0:45:49 | |
Do you listen to this podcast? It is
a red letter day! Have you heard of | 0:45:54 | 0:46:00 | |
it before? I have, but I haven't
been invited on! We will rectify it | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
in the New Year! That's my Christmas
promise to you both! On the record! | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
A lot of talk of amendments I am
sure! | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
Some said he wouldn't survive
for more than a few months, | 0:46:13 | 0:46:15 | |
but Jeremy Corbyn is set to enjoy,
or endure, his third | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
Christmas as Labour leader. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:19 | |
Our Guest of the Day Stephen Kinnock
was one of his critics. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
And here's the moment British
politics went full Borgen, | 0:46:22 | 0:46:24 | |
as Stephen received some political
advice from his wife, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
the ex Prime Minister of Denmark,
after the surprise result | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
on election night. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:30 | |
Stephen Kinnock receiving advice
there. Wouldn't that have been the | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
time to say what a great night that
Labour had said and it was as a | 0:47:31 | 0:47:35 | |
result of Jeremy Corbyn's
leadership. That is what I went on | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
to say in the interview but also the
story of the night is that it was | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
complete humiliation for Theresa
May. Jeremy Corbyn, if he had | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
suffered losses at that election
rather than Labour gaining seats, | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
would he have put himself forward
for the leadership? No. You wouldn't | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
have considered it? You weren't
going to launch a leadership bid? | 0:47:54 | 0:47:59 | |
No, I've only been an MP for five
minutes! I don't think that excludes | 0:47:59 | 0:48:02 | |
you from standing for leadership!
But did you realise at that point | 0:48:02 | 0:48:06 | |
that everything was different in the
way that you imagined before the | 0:48:06 | 0:48:09 | |
exit poll? We spent a lot of that
campaign being many points behind in | 0:48:09 | 0:48:14 | |
the opinion polls, and even on the
last night, there was only one poll | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
predicting the result we got. I
think that everybody was pretty | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
surprised and taken aback by the
result. I am the first to say that | 0:48:22 | 0:48:26 | |
we underestimated Jeromy and
overestimated Theresa May. What I | 0:48:26 | 0:48:32 | |
thought was interesting about the
programme was that it shows politics | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
in its unvarnished and slightly
chaotic, confusing state. Also, some | 0:48:36 | 0:48:39 | |
comedy as well. With all due respect
to you, Joe, sometimes these | 0:48:39 | 0:48:46 | |
interviews, it is politician comes
on and says what they are going to | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
say and get their point across and
you try and catch us out. What I | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
like but Light on the wall
documentaries is that it shows the | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
reality. And a lot of time in the
constituency seeing my brilliant and | 0:48:56 | 0:49:02 | |
wonderful activists and constituents
-- a fly on the wall documentary. | 0:49:02 | 0:49:06 | |
That is politics. It is about
revealing the truth and finding out | 0:49:06 | 0:49:11 | |
what politicians genuinely think
rather than what they present in | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
public. Maybe we should come to your
constituency and film! Do you think | 0:49:14 | 0:49:20 | |
Jeremy Corbyn has had a good year? I
think so. I think we've pushed the | 0:49:20 | 0:49:26 | |
government so hard on things like
Universal Credit, we've seen the | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
government falling to pieces over
Brexit. The keys to say, yes, there | 0:49:29 | 0:49:34 | |
are two jobs for the opposition,
hold the government's feet to the | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
fire and say look, we are the
government in waiting. We are able | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
to answer the questions and we have
a brilliant manifesto to build on. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:46 | |
But we need to put more flesh on the
bones and we need to take that | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
forward. Do you accept Jeremy
Corbyn's position is clear? | 0:49:50 | 0:49:57 | |
Unassailable. He delivered on the
campaign fantastically and I believe | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
that he is tapping into the anger
that people feel after seven wasted | 0:50:00 | 0:50:05 | |
years of Tory failures and we need
to build on that and turn it into a | 0:50:05 | 0:50:10 | |
positive vision for the country.
Yesterday, Michael was interviewing | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
Tom Watson. About who would be
leader if | 0:50:13 | 0:50:20 | |
Labour won the next election. How
long do you reckon before you are | 0:50:20 | 0:50:25 | |
bridging's Deputy Prime Minister? I
have no idea whether that would come | 0:50:25 | 0:50:29 | |
to pass... I doubt it but if you are
saying... You think that Labour will | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
never win or you will never be given
the chance? If I'm honest I think | 0:50:33 | 0:50:37 | |
they will give it to Emily
Thornberry! | 0:50:37 | 0:50:40 | |
It's interesting to hear him said
that, would you support Emily | 0:50:40 | 0:50:48 | |
Thornberry being Deputy Prime
Minister? Emily is a very talented | 0:50:48 | 0:50:52 | |
politician, she's done a great job
as Shadow Foreign Secretary. In the | 0:50:52 | 0:50:57 | |
end, it's a matter for the democracy
of our party, something that, I | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
believe passionately in. I did not
hear that interview, I have to | 0:51:00 | 0:51:06 | |
admit. I am slightly taken aback
hearing it right now, I think that | 0:51:06 | 0:51:11 | |
Tom is an absolute star of our
labour movement. He is doing a | 0:51:11 | 0:51:15 | |
fantastic job as deputy leader. I
hope that was not an indication of | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
his own plans or mindset. He is a
brilliant deputy leader. Listening | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
to that, do you think he feels
marginalised? I must admit that | 0:51:24 | 0:51:28 | |
hearing that for the first time as
I'd have done so now, it sounded a | 0:51:28 | 0:51:34 | |
little like he was a bit resigned,
and I find that both surprising and | 0:51:34 | 0:51:40 | |
disappointing. As I say, he's an
absolutely brilliant MP, deputy | 0:51:40 | 0:51:46 | |
leader of our party and I think that
he is the kind of guy that we | 0:51:46 | 0:51:49 | |
desperately need to be having at the
heart of our decision-making process | 0:51:49 | 0:51:54 | |
as we shake a manifesto and shape
the campaign to return a Labour | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
government in the next election. But
he was also wrong about Jeremy | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
Corbyn initially? Well, who really
knew? He saw that coming? We all | 0:52:01 | 0:52:08 | |
made the mistake of believing the
opinion polls and we made the | 0:52:08 | 0:52:12 | |
mistake of thinking that Theresa May
is a competent politician, and a | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
competent campaign when clearly she
is not. She is an absolute | 0:52:15 | 0:52:20 | |
liability. Nobody really saw that
coming until it happened. We had a | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
brilliant manifesto full of sensible
mainstream party policies and we | 0:52:24 | 0:52:29 | |
were facing the most inept
Conservative campaign in living | 0:52:29 | 0:52:33 | |
memory. Has the party triumphed in
terms of candidate elections? And | 0:52:33 | 0:52:39 | |
aback actually, there's a very
lively debate going on in the party | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
but it's a mixed bag in terms of
selections, I have seen selections | 0:52:42 | 0:52:47 | |
for marginal seats where there has
been mixed... The secret is, bring | 0:52:47 | 0:52:52 | |
this together and that is the magic
of the Labour Party and the labour | 0:52:52 | 0:52:58 | |
movement, that's what we've done in
the campaign. We have a little more | 0:52:58 | 0:53:02 | |
magic for you in the show... | 0:53:02 | 0:53:04 | |
Now - politics has been pure
pantomine this year. | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
Oh no, it hasn't! | 0:53:07 | 0:53:08 | |
"Oh yes it has". | 0:53:08 | 0:53:09 | |
And come to think about it. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:10 | |
Where's Ellie? | 0:53:10 | 0:53:11 | |
She's behind you! | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
Oh yes, there she is.... | 0:53:13 | 0:53:21 | |
Hello! Hello ladies and gentlemen,
boys and girls, here I am wanting to | 0:53:21 | 0:53:27 | |
tell you an interesting fairy tale
today. It is a fairy tale about an | 0:53:27 | 0:53:31 | |
MP who wanted to talk about her
local theatre in a far-away, | 0:53:31 | 0:53:36 | |
mystical and magical land called
Enfield North. That MP went all the | 0:53:36 | 0:53:40 | |
way to Parliament to talk about the
pantomime, like all good stories | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
things did not go to plan... | 0:53:44 | 0:53:48 | |
Enfield is very fortunate to benefit
from three local theatres. Indeed, I | 0:53:48 | 0:53:53 | |
will be taking my grandchildren to
the Millfield to enjoy Dick | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
Whittington over Christmas. Point of
order, Jane Ryan. I feel that I have | 0:53:58 | 0:54:09 | |
inadvertently misled the house, Mr
Speaker, during business questions, | 0:54:09 | 0:54:13 | |
when I suggested that honourable and
right honourable member 's could | 0:54:13 | 0:54:17 | |
enjoy the pantomime of Dick
Whittington at the Millfield Theatre | 0:54:17 | 0:54:20 | |
this Christmas. That was the last
pantomime Izod there. If honourable | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
members wish to the Millfield
Theatre, it would be to enjoy Jack | 0:54:25 | 0:54:30 | |
and the Beanstalk! I would be very
grateful to the honourable lady, | 0:54:30 | 0:54:35 | |
that is an extremely helpful
clarification! Moreover, in the | 0:54:35 | 0:54:39 | |
process of offering that
clarification to the house, the | 0:54:39 | 0:54:43 | |
right honourable lady has served
further to highlight the important | 0:54:43 | 0:54:50 | |
work done by, and the continued
pleasure brought about by the | 0:54:50 | 0:54:55 | |
theatre which I believe to be in her
own constituency. Oh, no, it isn't! | 0:54:55 | 0:55:03 | |
Joan Ryan is with me, through the
magic of television! What happened? | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
I wanted to raise a point about
funding for the arts, and in | 0:55:11 | 0:55:16 | |
particular for local theatres, who
have suffered a great deal from the | 0:55:16 | 0:55:19 | |
local authority cuts imposed by the
government. I did this in the | 0:55:19 | 0:55:24 | |
business question, and I thought
that I would mention Millfield | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
Theatre, this fantastic local
theatre, that we have in Enfield and | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
the fact that we are having a
fantastic pantomime again this year! | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
But I got the name of the pantomime
wrong! Oh, no, you didn't. Oh, yes, | 0:55:35 | 0:55:42 | |
I did! Have you seen it yet? Not
yet, I have tickets for myself, my | 0:55:42 | 0:55:47 | |
husband and our grandchildren on the
20th of December and we are so | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
looking forward to it. I've been to
pantomime is here before and they | 0:55:50 | 0:55:54 | |
are brilliant. It was pretty funny.
Would you take a role if they | 0:55:54 | 0:55:58 | |
decided to ask you next year? There
are those who think that MPs appear | 0:55:58 | 0:56:04 | |
in pantomime on a daily basis in
parliament, but I can assure you | 0:56:04 | 0:56:08 | |
that we don't, it's a serious
business and I do not think that I | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
could match the performers that we
have here! What are you doing here? | 0:56:11 | 0:56:18 | |
It is Mr Fleshcreep. We are all
forgetful from time to time, you | 0:56:18 | 0:56:27 | |
should not be held responsible. Do
you have any politics? Yes, we have | 0:56:27 | 0:56:35 | |
important lessons about community
spirit and being true to yourself | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
and what would happen to you if you
are a naughty, naughty man... Nigel | 0:56:38 | 0:56:43 | |
Farage! Sorry, I have a cold. And
it's | 0:56:43 | 0:56:48 | |
a busy time of year for you? It's
optional to go for Matilda, and one | 0:56:51 | 0:56:59 | |
doesn't like to be typecast when one
is naughty and green. It is | 0:56:59 | 0:57:04 | |
difficult. Food for thought...
Nothing left to say, really! You've | 0:57:04 | 0:57:08 | |
done and the puns, I got the fright
of my life! I had the privilege of | 0:57:08 | 0:57:15 | |
being at the rugby club in my
constituency, their Christmas | 0:57:15 | 0:57:22 | |
pantomime. They did Cinderella. Was
it funny? It was absolutely | 0:57:22 | 0:57:29 | |
hilarious. It was the least
politically correct thing I've ever | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
seen in my life, refreshingly so!
Are in pantomime? I'm not, I do plan | 0:57:32 | 0:57:38 | |
to go to one, I'm not sure yet, I
could go to one in my constituency, | 0:57:38 | 0:57:45 | |
a great place for pantomime. Thank
you to both of you. But before we | 0:57:45 | 0:57:52 | |
go, back over to you, LE. Take it
away, team! | 0:57:52 | 0:58:00 | |
# Ladies and gentlemen, boys and
girls, it's what you have all been | 0:58:00 | 0:58:03 | |
waiting for...
# Greetings each and everyone | 0:58:03 | 0:58:10 | |
# Young or old
# | 0:58:10 | 0:58:18 | |
# In the giant's lad...
# I'm a simple lad from good stock | 0:58:18 | 0:58:27 | |
# Saying that we don't have a large
# Greetings each and everyone | 0:58:27 | 0:58:33 | |
# Young or old
# Nobody dares... | 0:58:33 | 0:58:39 | |
# It's the place to be
# Living here | 0:58:39 | 0:58:42 | |
# Is the only time
# You can hear the giant roaring... | 0:58:42 | 0:58:51 | |
# | 0:58:51 | 0:58:56 | |
MUSIC: Stayin' Alive
by Bee Gees | 0:58:57 | 0:58:58 | |
It was more than just a dance movie. | 0:58:58 | 0:59:01 |