18/12/2017 Daily Politics


18/12/2017

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Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to

the Daily Politics.

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Theresa May gathers the Cabinet's

big beasts to talk about the UK's

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post-Brexit relationship with the EU

- will they be able

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to agree a way forward?

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A "culture change" is needed

to ensure safety is prioritised over

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costs in the construction industry -

that's according to the author

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of an interim report

into the catastrophic

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Grenfell fire disaster.

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Are poor regulations

still putting residents

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of tall buildings at risk?

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Labour had all women shortlists

in 1997 to increase the number

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of female MPs, so why not introduce

all-disabled shortlists to get more

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disabled people into parliament?

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We'll hear from the campaigner

who says that's exactly

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what should be done.

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OK you can vm buttercup. Not sure

what mum will say about it.

That

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Theresa May is how to negotiate.

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And some say British

Politics has been a bit

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like Pantomime this year -

so that's where we're taking

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the Daily Politics later...

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All that in the next hour

of knock-about yuletide

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entertainment for the whole family.

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And joining us for the duration,

Labour's pantomime Dame,

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Stephen Kinnock, and Westminster's

Prince Charming, Suella Fernandes.

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Welcome to the show.

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So, Theresa May has

another busy week ahead

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in the run up to Christmas.

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Following the agreement in Brussels

last week that 'sufficient progress'

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had been made on Phase One talks,

the Prime Minister will today be

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meeting with her 'Brexit cabinet'

to discuss the next phase.

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But tomorrow, she will meet

with the whole Cabinet to discuss

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the 'end-state' for the UK's

relationship with the EU

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and they aren't exactly singing

from the same hymn sheet.

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Her Chancellor, Philip Hammond,

said that the UK's relationship

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with the EU would be 'largely

unchanged' and that we will

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'effectively recreate

the status quo'.

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Boris Johnson, meanwhile,

believes the UK needs something

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'new and ambitious' giving 'zero

tariffs and frictionless trade'

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as well as the 'freedom

to decide our own regulatory

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framework'.

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Theresa May herself has said

that she wants a 'new,

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deep and special partnership'

with the EU and ruled out

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EEA-style membership.

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The EU have their own ideas

for Brexit, where the EU's chief

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negotiator Michel Barnier said

there is 'no way' the UK will be

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allowed to 'cherry-pick'

and have a bespoke deal with the EU.

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Jeremy Corbyn is also under pressure

from his Shadow Cabinet over

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the issue of a second referendum.

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'The Labour Party does not

support' one, claimed

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Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott.

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But on the same topic,

Deputy Leader Tom Watson said

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'you shouldn't rule anything out'.

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Let's speak to our political

correspondent, Ben Wright.

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Another busy Brexit week. What will

be agreed and changed this week?

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Very little I think. These are

preliminary discussions by the

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Cabinet. Amazingly, it is the first

time that the Cabinet has formally

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got together and talked about its

view regarding the final trading

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position the Government wants

between the EU and the UK after

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Brexit. 18 months on from the

referendum. This easy are

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discussions which might make the

discussions around phase one, the

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money, the rights of EU citizens

look like a picnic. There are big

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disagreements within the Cabinet

about the fundamental trading

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relationship the UK should look for.

There is also a big disagreement at

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the moment, it seems, between the UK

and the EU's starting points. The

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UK, Theresa May is clear she wants

something bespoke, something which

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combined Norwegian-style access with

a Canadian style trade agreement.

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The EU say that is not on the cards.

You have to take something based on

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a model which exists. They are

starting far apart. Time is short.

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The EU will come forward with their

proposal, their starting position by

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March. So the Government has to work

pretty quickly on this.

What about

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the Cabinet? How far apart are they

in terms of that future

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relationship?

Well, we believe there

are some significant differences,

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crucially around the question of how

much convergence there should be

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with the EU's regulatory system

after Brexit. At the moment there is

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complete convergence because we are

in the single market. The

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fundamental issue is how much EU,

sorry our Cabinet ministers are

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willing to accept that in the

future, after we have left, the two,

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well the EU and the UK will start to

diverge and how that will be

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managed. What mechanisms will be in

place. This is big fundamental

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stuff. I think there are those on

Philip Hammond's side of the

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argument who want as much single

market access as possible, with the

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po ten sham conditions and --

potential conditions. And others

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like Michael Gove who want more of a

clean break and as a consequence

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have more freedom for the UK to do

trade deals as a country no longer

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in the European Union. There are

fundamental differences on how they

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will approach this question.

Thank

you very much.

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Suella Fernandes, Philip Hammond

said our future relationship with EU

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will leave us largely unchanged and

effectively recreate the status quo.

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Do you agree with him?

In some

respects there will be things we

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want to maintain with tesmt U. We

want to maintain our commerce with

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the EU. We with are one of the

biggest customers to EU countries of

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their goods. We want to keep that

going. But there are definitely

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areas that we will want to diverge

on. We want to come out of the

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common commercial policy which

restricts our ability to design our

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own trade vision for the UK.

Philip

Hammond was saying that in reality

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won't happen. He said the UK won't

technically or legal I will be in

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the customs union or single market.

But we have committed the agreement

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at the end of last week an

environment which will effectively

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recreate the status quo - what we

have now.

To correct you the

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Chancellor has said we will be

leaving the customs union.

That is

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what he said.

He has said we will

leave, we will leave the single

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market.

Technically and legally, but

in reality it will be effective I

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will be the same?

The effect of

leaving the customs union is we will

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have freedom over our trade policy.

We will not be bound by the common

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commercial policy. We will not be

subject to the common external

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tariff which applies to goods coming

into the EU.

Will we during the

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transition period?

The

implementation period, I should say,

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which is all contingent on what the

end state is. So it is almost

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impossible to design an

implementation period before you've

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agreed the final outcome. That is

all subject to negotiations.

You

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signed letter in September saying

the UK must not pay into the EU

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budget during the implementation

period and must be able to sign free

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trade deals from March 2019, but we

will pay into the EU budge and we

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will not be able to -- EU budget and

we will not be able to sign trade

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deals in 2019.

I didn't sign a

letter.

A letter was circulated,

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asking for support from Conservative

MPs to back those points.

Yes.

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What's been agreed is we are going

to be contributing as part of the

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financial settlement, which has been

agreed by Theresa May. I suppose the

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agreement that's come forward in the

last week or so from Theresa May.

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That represents progress. It enables

us to move on to the next stage and

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nothing is agreed until everything

is agreed. That is a crucial part of

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the whole deal.

You have accepted

that we will pay into the EU budget

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and not be able to sign the free

trade agreements in March 2019?

No,

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we are making contributions as are

legally required by us under the

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financial framework and other

basises founded in law. We will be

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leaving the customs union in 2019.

As we will hear from Theresa May

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later today, or from the Government

later today, there will be clarity

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on what our position is in terms of

designing that trade deal. Otherwise

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the work of Liam Fox is redundant. A

whole department has been set up,

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extensive energies have been put

into scoping out our potential deals

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with other third party countries.

All of that is necessary and it's

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not in vain. The Prime Minister

herself took a trip to India very

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recently on a mission to look at

what option there are for a trade

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deal. None of that means anything if

we are not out of the customs union

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and not look at trade deals after

2019.

So look at trade deals but

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there will not be any signed until

March 2019?

I open to what, I will

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not sit here and tie the Prime

Minister's hands on anything. This

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is all subject to negotiation. What

is agreed, is clear Government

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policy and garnered the unanimous

support of the Government is we are

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leaving these blocks which do tie

our hands, which do restrict us from

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exploring other trade routes.

You

did set out some red lines

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beforehand, so you will not make

that a red line about Britain

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signing free trade deals during the

next few years?

I think it is very

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important that we are, after 2019,

able to make concrete progress,

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tangible progress and advanced

negotiations with other countries

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outside the EU. That is one of the

biggest prizes that we stand to gain

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from our departure from the EU. I am

confident that the Government is

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pursuing that aim as well.

Do you

think Brexit has actually been

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softened up in the last few weeks?

I

think we have seen a series of

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reality checks and the Government's

approach to Brexit has been a

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mixture of bluster, posture and then

capitulate.

They have an agreement.

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But every single red line goes up in

smoke when it comes to the first

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contangt with reality. First --

contact with reality. They said the

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divorce talks should be in parallel

with the trade talks. That row was

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going to be the row of the summer.

It lasted until about lunch time on

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the first day. They now recognise

the need for a transition deal limit

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be a carbon copy of the status quo.

The only thing we will not have is a

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seat at the table. If that is to

take back control I am not sure what

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it means.

We know that the Prime

Minister is sticking to her guns

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that she set out in Lancashire

house. The UK will leave the single

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market and will leave the Customs

Union and she will not sign up or

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sign the country up to anything that

looks like the European Economic

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Area.

That is not going to happen.

The transition deal will be a carbon

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copy of the deal. That is not up for

negotiation. The European Union has

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been clear, if you read the...

She

said not part of the European

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Economic Area.

Beyond the transition

which could last longer than two

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years, by the way, I think that is

up for negotiation. I think that we

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would, we would be much better off

committing to the European Economic

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Area. It does actually give you

maximum market access but also the

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opportunity to control free movement

of labour. Articles 112 and 113 of

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the EEA agreement set that out

clearly.

David Cameron failed to get

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further when it come to migration.

Do you think the Labour Party is

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moving to your position now, beyond

the implementation period of

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actually remaining in the single

market and the Customs Union in some

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sort of replica to the area?

The

European Economic Area is not the

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same as, you are not subject to...

You cannot sign the free trade?

If

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you move into EFTA as well, European

free trade association, they can

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sign bilateral free trade deals.

Iceland has a trade deal with China.

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We have to understand there is a way

through this. It is about squaring

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the circle between market access and

regulatory control. EFTA ETA is the

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best way to do that. There is a

majority for it in Parliament. I

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hope that is the way to do it

otherwise we will go off the edge of

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a cliff.

Do you think that is

acceptable, bearing in mind the

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referendum?

To my mind it is not

acceptable. That has been ruled out

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by the Prime Minister, because with

that coming free movement of people

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and that was an important aspect.

You say that article 112 is a

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mechanism to control free movement T

only example is Lichtenstein, a

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population of 37,000 people. A very

small mileage of Square Mileage of

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space and used in very exceptional

circumstances, where there was a

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serious risk to the economy of the

society in which case controls over

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migration were allowed. It is not

the same as Britain's population -

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65 million people, a larger

landmass.

It is an emergency...

We

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cannot say there is a serious risk

posed by EU migrants. Our employment

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is very high. I don't think 112,

what you make out is a viable option

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for the UK.

Isn't it the case we

could end newspaper a situation

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where the UK becomes a vasel state

of the EU. We take all the rules and

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regulations but we don't have any

input. We don't sit at the table?

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Two points T transition period we

will take absolutely everything from

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the single market and the Customs

union, we will not have a seat at

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the table. I campaigned passionately

for remain. I think it is a great

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pity that the UK will not stay in

the EU. What do we do now we must

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respect the result of the

referendum? There is a way through

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this, which does actually give us a

real opportunity to reform free

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movement of labour but also doesn't

wreck the British economy by coming

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out of the single, out of access

from the single market.

What is

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Labour's policy on having a second

referendum?

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We're not supporting a second

referendum, there are valid reasons

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for not supporting one, if it was

52% remain, 48% lead, we would have

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expected those on the Leeds side to

accept the result.

White is deputy

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leader Tom Watson think that nothing

should be ruled out when it comes to

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a second referendum?

When the facts

change, I change my mind, is the

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saying. New facts are coming out

tonight. If we leave the EU, if we

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leave in March 2019, and we see a

massive damaging impact on the

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economy, which many people predict

would be the case, I do not believe

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so much and forecasting predictions,

I think we had to see where we are

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but we are seeing thousands of jobs

going down the drain, we are seeing

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foreign direct investment drying up

and seeing market access being

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severely limited.

Then you would

change your mind?

Any responsible

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government, whoever is in government

at the time, is the responsibility

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of them to act in the national

interest.

Michel Barnier, Suella,

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said that the government would not

get a bespoke deal. UK cannot cherry

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pick, we cannot have a no way of

style agreement without freedom of

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movement and aspects of the Canada

deal taking in services. What do you

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say to him?

This is the first time

that a nation has left the EU.

I

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think that we have to be open to

building what might not be... There

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might not be a particular model for

it but I do think that Canada, that

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agreement struck with the EU last

year, I think it does provide some

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really good grounds for optimism.

He

says you are not going to have that?

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Well, I don't know. He says that

that it depends on a lot of people

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involved in the process. The Canada

agreement was mutually signed up to

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by both sides. It is beneficial for

both.

But it did not take in

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services?

That's true, and that is

why we cannot just copy and paste

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Canada and say that it applies to

the UK. It does have some good

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points, like an illumination of some

tariffs but it does not quite cover

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services. 80% of our economy is

services. That's a great opportunity

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for us.

Are you worried that we will

not get it?

I'm not worried at all.

0:17:400:17:46

I'm very optimistic, contrary to how

Stephen feels. I think there has

0:17:460:17:50

been huge progress made in showing

both sides want to strike an

0:17:500:17:53

agreement on what has been said to

be complex issues. I think it bodes

0:17:530:17:57

well for the future.

And what do you

make of the arguments that some of

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your colleagues should be deselected

for rebelling on the EU withdrawal

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bill last week, are you supportive

of that?

No, I am not. I think they

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are our colleagues and I take them

at face value. They've said that

0:18:100:18:14

they wanted to improve legislation,

it is disappointing that the

0:18:140:18:18

government lost the vote on

amendments seven, but I do think

0:18:180:18:22

that we can all move forward. It's a

continued dialogue and the

0:18:220:18:27

government is listening to many

members who had tabled amendments,

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responding substantively and, as a

result, producing a bill which I

0:18:310:18:36

think reflects many concerns in

Parliament.

Say you do not see them

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as traitors?

I do not think it is

fair to demonise them at all for

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carrying out something they feel

passionate about.

Did your

0:18:460:18:50

constituents vote for a continuation

on what Labour is calling the free

0:18:500:18:56

movement of easy people, if that's

what it means?

No, for those who

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voted Leave, there were concerns

about free movement of labour, but

0:19:010:19:05

there is a real opportunity through

the economic area to pull the

0:19:050:19:10

emergency brake and put a reformed

system in place. There is clear

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legal precedent for doing this and

we would be coming out of the EU, so

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really negotiating on a different

basis to the one that David Cameron

0:19:180:19:21

was trying to push through back in

2016. I think there is a way of

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allaying concerns but we need a

sensible and pragmatic approach, not

0:19:280:19:33

one driven by the ideology of

certain backbenchers in the

0:19:330:19:36

Conservative Party.

0:19:360:19:39

And for more reporting

and analysis of Brexit,

0:19:390:19:40

check out the BBC News website

- that's bbc.co.uk/Brexit.

0:19:400:19:44

A month after the Grenfell tragedy

the government set up an independent

0:19:440:19:47

inquiry into the risks of living

in a tower block.

0:19:470:19:50

Today preliminary results of that

inquiry are being published.

0:19:500:19:52

The report's author,

Dame Judith Hackitt says a "culture

0:19:520:19:54

change" is needed to ensure safety

is prioritised over costs

0:19:540:19:56

in the construction industry,

that building regulations

0:19:560:19:58

are confusing and the profession

suffers from "competence" issues.

0:19:580:20:08

The interim report tells us that

what we have in place today is a

0:20:080:20:11

system which is evolved

over a number of years,

0:20:110:20:13

it's overly complex,

and that complexity doesn't lead to

0:20:130:20:16

it being as effective

as it needs to be.

0:20:160:20:24

We're talking about a system where

there's too much

0:20:240:20:27

prescription, where there is a very

heavily layered system of guidance

0:20:270:20:30

currently, which is not helpful

in terms of leading people

0:20:300:20:33

to the right answer.

0:20:330:20:38

So, my aim for the future

is to create a much simpler and more

0:20:380:20:42

straightforward system that would be

easier for people to follow.

0:20:420:20:44

But that needs to be

re-enforced with a

0:20:440:20:46

number of changes in behaviour,

which will include a major culture

0:20:460:20:49

change across all of

the players in this.

0:20:490:20:59

And the Chairman of the Local

Government Association,

0:21:020:21:03

Gary Porter, joins us now.

0:21:030:21:08

Why is it so complicated at the

moment? It's the way that the

0:21:080:21:11

regulation and guidance has been

drafted. We have several years of

0:21:110:21:15

additional regulation and guidance

being added, and no simplification.

0:21:150:21:19

It's been a problem since 2006.

Is

it going to be easy for local

0:21:190:21:25

authorities? Are they in a position

to change the rules or at least put

0:21:250:21:29

into practice recommendations?

We

cannot change the rules, the

0:21:290:21:33

government has too.

Ayew in a

position to implement them?

Where we

0:21:330:21:37

we do do building control, they will

be renewed. Within a week or two of

0:21:370:21:44

the fire, we called for the

regulations to be looked at. It was

0:21:440:21:48

clear from test results coming in

that there was a systemic failure

0:21:480:21:51

across the country, that cannot be

down to one or two individuals that

0:21:510:21:55

were incompetent but the system

being wrong.

Or were regulations

0:21:550:22:01

interpreted to suit themselves?

I

have only quickly read the report,

0:22:010:22:05

the draft report. And out of the

recommendations, there's only one I

0:22:050:22:08

would disagree with not being strong

enough, that's the ability for the

0:22:080:22:13

industry to do desktop surveys and

do a study not of real materials in

0:22:130:22:16

real life circumstances but on

computer modelling. That's one of

0:22:160:22:21

the areas where we need to get to

grips with this. Put in limited

0:22:210:22:25

combustible materials on high-rise

buildings will be full of

0:22:250:22:32

difficulty. It's not for me to

rewrite the rules but no

0:22:320:22:36

combustibility.

None at all but will

that be what happens?

I doubt it.

Do

0:22:360:22:40

you get what you pay for when it

comes to these sorts of things?

0:22:400:22:44

Definitely not. In some cases, some

of the materials used would be more

0:22:440:22:49

expensive and more dangerous. This

isn't about cost-cutting, that's a

0:22:490:22:55

red herring. Anybody who thinks that

these buyers take place because

0:22:550:22:58

people are saving money on materials

used are incorrect.

Do you accept

0:22:580:23:03

that? That it isn't just about

money?

I think we've had a culture

0:23:030:23:09

of privatisation of contracting out

austerity. It creates a toxic

0:23:090:23:14

combination which, I do not know

whether there is a direct link from

0:23:140:23:19

that culture to the tragic events of

Grenfell. But I welcome what the

0:23:190:23:24

report says about the need for a

culture change. I do think our

0:23:240:23:27

public services need the resources

and empowerment to be able to take

0:23:270:23:34

control of the process because the

more you contract it out, the higher

0:23:340:23:39

the risks to come.

But we have heard

that you can have more expensive

0:23:390:23:45

materials and they can be more

combustible. The link that you are

0:23:450:23:49

talking about, if you cannot see a

link between austerity and safety,

0:23:490:23:52

why mention it?

I think it is how it

is managed and implemented.

0:23:520:23:58

Companies will look to cut corners

to cut costs, not in terms of

0:23:580:24:04

materials but how they do their job.

Can I refuse that point, there are

0:24:040:24:10

no councils in this country who

would endanger their lives of their

0:24:100:24:14

residents to save a few pounds. No

matter how hard done by and the fact

0:24:140:24:18

that we are a couple of billion

short on what we need to deliver

0:24:180:24:22

services properly, fire safety is

not an area that councils would

0:24:220:24:26

compromise on. More buildings in the

private sector are at risk of this

0:24:260:24:30

than councils alone. There are 15

councils with buildings caught up in

0:24:300:24:34

this. That's not to downplay that it

is 15 councils but that's out of

0:24:340:24:39

400. The vast majority of buildings

affected by this fire, and going

0:24:390:24:42

beyond this fire, they have safety

concerns with high-rise buildings

0:24:420:24:46

and will be in the private sector.

So it isn't a case of public versus

0:24:460:24:52

private, but private sector

buildings, or people who own their

0:24:520:24:57

own homes, they are in as much risk?

In the case of Grenfell, there were

0:24:570:25:03

a lot of red flags bring down by the

residents and they felt that there

0:25:030:25:07

were things happening in that

building which caused serious

0:25:070:25:12

concerns and action was not taken. I

think the key challenge we have is

0:25:120:25:16

making sure that accountability is

right, that the report looks at this

0:25:160:25:22

in the broadest possible terms, and

we never see the awful and tragic

0:25:220:25:26

mistakes happening and Grenfell ever

again.

Stephen has a point in so far

0:25:260:25:32

as until October this year, they had

not released funds to make tower

0:25:320:25:37

blocks safe according to some

councils when asking for funding for

0:25:370:25:40

cladding and sprinklers. Why not?

To

date, I know that the government has

0:25:400:25:47

responded extensively. There's

nothing anyone can do to bring back

0:25:470:25:51

the people who died.

But they have

not responded?

The government set up

0:25:510:26:00

a fund where if councils need help

setting up installations there is a

0:26:000:26:06

process where they can go to

government and requests would be

0:26:060:26:09

considered. I think that is the

right thing to do.

Are you reassured

0:26:090:26:13

that there are not tower blocks in

this country that are still at risk

0:26:130:26:16

from these kinds of fires? There are

people living in tower blocks that

0:26:160:26:22

are in danger?

I am reassured that

tower blocks in the ownership of

0:26:220:26:27

councils and housing associations

have been identified and appropriate

0:26:270:26:30

measures have been taken in the

interim, like fire wardens with

0:26:300:26:34

24-hour cover, one with a fire

engine permanently outside of the

0:26:340:26:38

building. The ones the state owns, I

am perfectly comfortable that we are

0:26:380:26:43

doing as much as we can to make it

safe but the vast majority of

0:26:430:26:46

buildings in the private sector, and

some that we do not know where they

0:26:460:26:53

are. We have called for those who

did the testing to release all of

0:26:530:26:56

the test failures they have got.

They are refusing to release test

0:26:560:27:00

failures. We do not know which

materials are safe and what

0:27:000:27:07

buildings are clouded with which

materials.

The report from Judith

0:27:070:27:12

Hackitt describes a mindset of doing

things as cheaply as possible, and

0:27:120:27:17

passing on responsibility for

problems and shortcomings to others.

0:27:170:27:19

What do you say to that?

I would

refute that.

That is what she has

0:27:190:27:25

found.

As a private sector person as

well, I can guarantee that councils

0:27:250:27:32

around the country are paying more

than the private sector equivalent.

0:27:320:27:36

Let's not look at the equivalent,

are you trying to do things as

0:27:360:27:39

cheaply as possible because, in all

fairness, councils claim they have

0:27:390:27:43

had budgets cut to the bone?

As

efficiently as possible, not as

0:27:430:27:47

cheaply.

Is that value for money?

In

the report, as it comes out, if she

0:27:470:27:54

implicates councils on the basis of

saving a penny to risk a pound, that

0:27:540:28:02

is not what councils do. They take a

long-term view of the investment

0:28:020:28:05

they make in those homes. Grenfell

had £8 million invested in it. If

0:28:050:28:08

they were not spending money on the

building, the fire would not have

0:28:080:28:11

happened.

What do you say about the

efficiency of councils? And the one

0:28:110:28:15

that oversaw the Grenfell Tower?

Obviously there is a real need to

0:28:150:28:21

ensure that standards are met, which

is why a review of what standards

0:28:210:28:25

are applicable is necessary. If

those standards are higher than what

0:28:250:28:29

is currently in place there's an

added burden on councils to meet

0:28:290:28:33

requirements.

Should the government

put fans behind it?

This funding is

0:28:330:28:39

available on a discretionary basis

but if this is council owned

0:28:390:28:43

property, tenanted out to

individuals, then there is a burden

0:28:430:28:48

on councils to undertake that cost.

Would you be happy to do that?

As

0:28:480:28:55

part of day-to-day cost pressures,

councils should account for that and

0:28:550:28:58

it should be done so through the

rent book. Unexpected issues, that

0:28:580:29:03

is an unexpected issue, nobody would

have covered that building and

0:29:030:29:07

expected that, the government will

have to mobilise funds, even if it

0:29:070:29:11

is only with the local and national

governments standing shoulder to

0:29:110:29:17

shoulder, suing those who have

broken rules to make it happen, this

0:29:170:29:20

is not going to be about a few

million or even today's numbers of 1

0:29:200:29:25

billion, this will be into billions

before we'd managed to resolve the

0:29:250:29:28

issue from across the whole country.

It's the most serious issue facing

0:29:280:29:33

our housing stock since before the

war.

Is the Treasury prepared to put

0:29:330:29:36

out this money?

As I've said, the

funding is available and

0:29:360:29:42

case-by-case councils can make

applications. There's that backdrop

0:29:420:29:48

but as Gary recognises comedy

private sector and private rented

0:29:480:29:51

properties in the whole area, which

are as of yet unidentified, we do

0:29:510:29:54

not know the extent to which fire

safety regulations are being met.

0:29:540:29:58

Gary Porter, thank you.

0:29:580:30:00

Now, Theresa May told the Commons

last week that she wanted to make

0:30:000:30:04

sure that disabled people who wanted

to work are able to do so.

0:30:040:30:07

But do disabled people feel able

to go into political life and why

0:30:070:30:10

are so few of them represented

in our parliaments, assemblies

0:30:100:30:12

and council chambers?

0:30:120:30:13

Here's disability rights campaigner,

Alice Kirby, with her soapbox.

0:30:130:30:23

Let's go next door for

Prime Minister's Questions.

0:30:230:30:25

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

0:30:250:30:28

At the last election,

the Liberal Democrats made history

0:30:280:30:32

by becoming the first political

party to select

0:30:320:30:36

a candidate using an all-disabled

shortlist, now we need every

0:30:360:30:38

political party

to follow their lead.

0:30:380:30:41

There are over 30 million

disabled people in the UK.

0:30:410:30:45

That

means we make up 21%

0:30:450:30:48

of the British population,

0:30:480:30:51

but only six of our MPs define

themselves as disabled, that

0:30:510:30:53

is less than 1% of

the House of Commons.

0:30:530:30:56

And that's just not good enough.

0:30:560:30:58

But the solution is simple.

0:30:580:31:03

All disabled shortlists

counter the over and

0:31:030:31:05

subconscious prejudice

that

0:31:050:31:07

blocks disabled people

from getting elected,

0:31:070:31:11

or even putting themselves

0:31:110:31:12

forward in the first place.

0:31:120:31:15

Some people say we

should just choose the

0:31:150:31:17

best people for the job.

0:31:170:31:19

You can still do that,

it's just the people

0:31:190:31:21

being picked are disabled.

0:31:210:31:28

And the word disabled

is not a synonym for

0:31:280:31:31

incompetent, incapable or unskilled.

0:31:310:31:36

In the 1990s, the Labour Party

revolutionised politics by adopting

0:31:360:31:40

all-women shortlists.

0:31:400:31:43

It was controversial

at the time but it

0:31:430:31:46

clearly worked, as there are more

women than ever in the Commons

0:31:460:31:50

and not only in seats

where they are used,

0:31:500:31:52

and not only by parties who

0:31:520:31:56

use them, because they've brought

about a cultural change.

0:31:560:32:02

Disabled people do not

need mouthpieces or

0:32:020:32:05

champions, we need MPs and ministers

who truly understand the

0:32:050:32:08

discrimination we face.

0:32:080:32:12

Politicians need to

reflect wider society.

0:32:120:32:16

It's time MPs started

truly representing

0:32:160:32:18

the UK's biggest minority group.

0:32:180:32:23

And Alice Kirby joins us now

from our Sheffield studio.

0:32:230:32:30

Alice, it is your position that

Parliament can only truly represent

0:32:300:32:34

disabled people if the Commons is a

complete microcosm of wider society?

0:32:340:32:39

That needs to be the goal. If we

look at, it seems like we're always

0:32:390:32:45

aiming to have gender equality in

the Commons. I don't see why it

0:32:450:32:48

should be different for disabled

people.

Do do you accept there may

0:32:480:32:52

be more than six MPs who may not be

visually disabled they may have

0:32:520:32:59

dyslexia or hard of hearing and they

are aware of the many struggles that

0:32:590:33:04

disabled people face as a result?

We

only know of six MPs who have said

0:33:040:33:10

they are publically disabled. Are

probably more. That speaks to a

0:33:100:33:15

larger issue of why politicians are

not comfortable saying they are

0:33:150:33:19

disable and is it because of this

culture of disability that makes you

0:33:190:33:24

weak and not a good politician?

Something like an all-disabled short

0:33:240:33:30

list will bring about a cultural

change there, like all-women short

0:33:300:33:34

lists, that would make these people

more comfortable being identified as

0:33:340:33:39

disabled publically.

Do you agree it

would help balance reputation?

I

0:33:390:33:46

have to say I really want more

disabled people to get involved in

0:33:460:33:51

public life and generally

employment. But I do disagree with

0:33:510:33:54

the principal of all short lists

based on personal characteristics

0:33:540:33:59

whether on disability, on gender,

whether it is race or anything else.

0:33:590:34:02

I just feel it doesn't really, it is

not robust enough to enable the best

0:34:020:34:09

people to come through. I think that

people don't need favours being

0:34:090:34:13

done, they can thrive on a level

playing field with more

0:34:130:34:17

encouragement and more engagement.

That is really the challenge for us.

0:34:170:34:21

They have not thrived so far.

I

would disagree. We have millions

0:34:210:34:30

more disabled people in work. We are

seeing progress. That should be

0:34:300:34:33

encouraged and built upon rather

than saying short lists for people.

0:34:330:34:37

What do you say in response?

. I

don't think so. We have six MPs out

0:34:370:34:42

of 650. If there was true reputation

there would be 130 disabled MPs. I

0:34:420:34:48

don't see how we will get there

without the help of all disabled

0:34:480:34:51

short lists. I don't think they are

ideal, we should not use them

0:34:510:34:55

long-term, but for now it is the way

forward.

When you talk to disabled

0:34:550:34:59

people, Alice, what are the barriers

they say that put them off trying to

0:34:590:35:03

get into Parliament?

I think there's

a variety of reasons. I think, comes

0:35:030:35:11

back down to discrimination. I don't

feel parties feel confident

0:35:110:35:15

selecting disabled people. I don't

think disabled people feel confident

0:35:150:35:19

to put themselves forward to be

elected. There is the access to

0:35:190:35:25

office fund which provided financial

support for disabled people running

0:35:250:35:30

elections to cover adjustments like

taxi fare and sign language

0:35:300:35:38

interpreters. A key area would be

job sharing for MPs to allow MPs who

0:35:380:35:44

wouldn't be able to work full-time

to still run for office

Do you take

0:35:440:35:49

the point like funding which would

help accessibility should be

0:35:490:35:53

reinstated by the Conservatives?

It

is not always about money. It is

0:35:530:35:57

more about engagement. I think

providing opportunities for work

0:35:570:36:03

experience, for internships, for

apprenticeships in Parliament, for

0:36:030:36:05

including more people in the party,

whether it is Conservative, Labour,

0:36:050:36:10

Lib Dems, from a wide variety of

backgrounds should be encouraged. My

0:36:100:36:15

experience in the Conservative Party

is that people of all abilities are

0:36:150:36:18

welcome. And we have champions for

disability rights. People who are

0:36:180:36:23

disabled and also people who are not

disabled, who don't have to have

0:36:230:36:31

those characteristics.

The Labour

Party used all-women short lists -

0:36:310:36:36

should they do it for disabled

people?

It is an interesting idea.

0:36:360:36:39

E-I would like to see it piloted.

It

has been.

Where?

The Liberal

0:36:390:36:47

Democrats selected their candidate

from an all-disabled short list.

I

0:36:470:36:51

would very much like to see it

piloted in the Labour Party. I think

0:36:510:36:55

it would be, because you are looking

for candidates who have experience

0:36:550:37:00

of campaigning, knocking on doors.

Ideally a good connection to the

0:37:000:37:04

local area and political experience.

So we do want to make sure that we

0:37:040:37:08

have all of that. Now, as you say

there are 13 million disabled people

0:37:080:37:12

in this country. So no doubt within

that talent pool we have it. But

0:37:120:37:15

there is also a problem with getting

people to come forward into politics

0:37:150:37:18

in general. I think they look at the

amount of abuse that politicians get

0:37:180:37:25

on social media, the very polarised

nature of the political landscape in

0:37:250:37:29

which we live at the moment, at the

complexity of it. Sometimes the very

0:37:290:37:34

long working hours. So there are a

lot of other barriers to getting

0:37:340:37:37

people into public life. This is an

interesting idea.

Perhaps you could

0:37:370:37:41

work with the Labour Party, help

them do that pilot?

I would love to.

0:37:410:37:46

So, just seven sleeps

until Christmas and if you're

0:37:500:37:52

exhausted, you can bet Theresa May

is after the Advent she's had.

0:37:520:37:55

We know there are boy's

jobs and girl's jobs

0:37:550:37:57

in the May household,

so while Mr May is making the mince

0:37:570:38:00

pies and wrapping the presents,

the Prime Minister has

0:38:000:38:02

the un-enviable task of getting her

cabinet to agree on Brexit.

0:38:020:38:05

the un-enviable task of getting her

Cabinet to agree on Brexit.

0:38:050:38:08

I expect she'd prefer to be peeling

the Brussels sprouts -

0:38:080:38:10

though maybe she's had

enough of Brussels....

0:38:100:38:17

This afternoon Theresa May

will make a statement

0:38:170:38:18

to the Commons on last week's EU

summit in Brussels.

0:38:180:38:21

She'll tell MPs there is a "shared

desire" to make rapid progress.

0:38:210:38:27

Tomorrow morning, the Cabinet meets

and it's expected they will discuss

0:38:270:38:30

for the first time just

what the final deal with the EU

0:38:300:38:33

should look like, and on Wednesday

MPs will debate whether the date

0:38:330:38:35

and time should be put on the Brexit

bill, it was expected to be a tricky

0:38:350:38:39

moment for the government,

however Conservative MPs

0:38:390:38:41

are expected to rally around

a compromise amendment

0:38:410:38:43

proposed by Oliver Letwin.

0:38:430:38:46

It's a busy day on Wednesday,

because in the afternoon

0:38:460:38:48

Theresa May is in front

of the Liaison Committee,

0:38:480:38:50

made up of chairs of each

of the select committees,

0:38:500:38:53

it will grill the Prime Minister

on a range of issues.

0:38:530:38:56

Finally, as Parliament

breaks up for Christmas

0:38:560:39:03

at the end of this week,

it's likely that at some point

0:39:030:39:06

we'll finally hear back

from the Cabinet Inquiry into Damian

0:39:060:39:09

Green.

0:39:090:39:10

The First Secretary is being

investigated over claims he made

0:39:100:39:12

inappropriate advances

towards a political activist

0:39:120:39:14

and over allegations that

pornography was found on a computer

0:39:140:39:16

in his office.

0:39:160:39:17

And it's wall-to-wall Christmas

parties here in Westminster,

0:39:170:39:21

but we've managed to drag away two

journalists from the mulled

0:39:210:39:26

wine and warm prosecco -

Heather Stewart of the Guardian

0:39:260:39:29

and the Financial

Times's Sebastian Payne.

0:39:290:39:32

Welcome. What sort of clarity do you

think we will get as a result of

0:39:320:39:37

these meetings with the smaller

Cabinet and then the wider Cabinet

0:39:370:39:40

about Britain's end state with

Europe?

To be honest, I fear not

0:39:400:39:44

very much. Already those around

Theresa May are playing down the

0:39:440:39:47

idea that we will get any definite

answer. We may be well into the New

0:39:470:39:52

Year before we have anything too

specific. We may get some mood

0:39:520:39:56

music. We will hear a constructive

discussion and they have bared some

0:39:560:40:01

of their differences. I don't think

we will get a clear outline of the

0:40:010:40:05

trade deal they want to end up with.

Do you agree? Will it be a case our

0:40:050:40:10

relationship will remain unchanged

as Philip Hammond has indicated, not

0:40:100:40:15

just during the implementation but

beyond?

The key question is this

0:40:150:40:20

issue of regulatory divergence, how

much ability does the UK want to

0:40:200:40:23

have to change rules after we leave

the EU? The whole of the Cabinet

0:40:230:40:27

wants the ability to change

regulations. The question is, where

0:40:270:40:30

do we start from? Do we start from a

place of being exactly the same, or

0:40:300:40:34

from day one, we will start to heave

regulations out of the window and

0:40:340:40:39

cutting that red tape? It will begin

with a constructive discussion, that

0:40:390:40:45

is how they will describe it, really

it will not be until mid-or late

0:40:450:40:51

January until we have any idea on

where the Cabinet agrees on this

0:40:510:40:54

issue. There are, there is no

consensus. They have different

0:40:540:40:59

opinions on this. Some side will

have to give way. I think the

0:40:590:41:04

Euro-sceptics have given away so

much on the exit deal. They will be

0:41:040:41:07

very firm on not giving away too

much on what comes next.

We've had a

0:41:070:41:12

Government defeat over the

meaningful vote. There is another

0:41:120:41:15

row expected, although it may have

been defused over the weekend by

0:41:150:41:19

offers of a compromise over the date

and time being written on to the

0:41:190:41:22

face of the bill. Do you think that

has meant the Government is safe in

0:41:220:41:27

that vote, Heather?

Yes, I think it

probably S it is very odd, this was

0:41:270:41:33

an amendment the Government tabled,

to declare to make law that we would

0:41:330:41:38

leave in March 2019. That outraged

some of the sort of pro-EU MPs who

0:41:380:41:45

felt, hang on, what if we have not

done a deal which that date? What if

0:41:450:41:50

the Government needs more days,

isn't it crazy to lock us into that

0:41:500:41:54

timetable? They looked like they

could face defeat on this. Labour

0:41:540:41:58

were readying themselves to defeat

the Government. At the end of last

0:41:580:42:01

week we had an amendment from Oliver

Letwin, which looks as though

0:42:010:42:04

probably he was doing that with the

say so of Downing Street. He's

0:42:040:42:09

managed to persuade the Brexit

rebels in the Tory Party led by

0:42:090:42:21

Dominic Greave. Do we expect the

Government to have that amendment

0:42:210:42:26

and hopefully we can go away without

another row.

Or another amendment.

0:42:260:42:31

We will not have a Christmas

amendment. Let's talk about Theresa

0:42:310:42:39

May, Sebastian Payne, because during

this year there were those who

0:42:390:42:42

thought she wouldn't make it to

Christmas, but she has made it to

0:42:420:42:45

Christmas as Prime Minister. There

are now reports saying she could be

0:42:450:42:49

asked to stay on until 2021 by the

Conservative Party, what do you

0:42:490:42:53

think of that?

It was Jeremy Corbyn

who said he would be in Downing

0:42:530:42:58

Street by Christmas. He's not got

long to fulfil that prediction after

0:42:580:43:01

the general election. This story

does have a lot of sense because the

0:43:010:43:04

Conservative Party really wants to

try and get as much of Brexit as

0:43:040:43:09

locked and loaded before the next

general election in 2022. If Theresa

0:43:090:43:13

May stays on to secure that

comprehensive free trade deal they

0:43:130:43:17

need to have to make Brexit look

like a success, then see how it

0:43:170:43:21

goes. The odd thing about Theresa

May is we say this situation is

0:43:210:43:26

unsustainable and it proves

sustainably. Over and over again she

0:43:260:43:31

hangs on. Will she make it through

next year? And it looks like she

0:43:310:43:35

will. If she makes it through next

year she will probably make it

0:43:350:43:40

through until the end of Brexit.

Then it is where the party is at -

0:43:400:43:44

how confident is it feeling?

Conservative donors will not let her

0:43:440:43:49

fight the general election. So I

think she could go a year or two

0:43:490:43:53

years in the run-up to that. They

will not want to take the risk again

0:43:530:43:56

of putting her in front of the

ballot-box because all of those

0:43:560:44:00

problems with her personality and

what have you, are still there.

0:44:000:44:06

Thank you very much. Do you think

Theresa May should fight the next

0:44:060:44:11

election?

I think she should

continue as the leader of the

0:44:110:44:15

Conservative Party until she decides

she want to step down. She's proving

0:44:150:44:20

all the critics wrong. Everyone

predicts gloom and crisis. Actually

0:44:200:44:25

she defies them wrong. We have seen

in the last week how she has managed

0:44:250:44:29

to strike this agreement. People

said it would be impossible. She's

0:44:290:44:33

managed to bring yun in the party.

-- unity in the party. You would

0:44:330:44:40

like to see her there until 2021?

For as long as she wants to stay in

0:44:400:44:45

place.

0:44:450:44:50

And there's something exciting

coming up this evening -

0:44:500:44:52

and it's happening in

this very studio.

0:44:520:44:54

My colleague Chris Mason

is here to explain...

0:44:540:44:57

R We are turning a podcast into a

live event tonight. I know this

0:44:570:45:03

studio is well known for the

nerdometer going north-bound...

Only

0:45:030:45:09

occasionally!

It goes to the moon

and back. We are talking Brexit from

0:45:090:45:18

45 minutes, from 6. 15pm. Going live

on Radio 5live and on the News

0:45:180:45:25

Channel later, and globally

tomorrow. We have Laura and our

0:45:250:45:32

Europe editor, Tony Connolly from

RTE, around the issue of the Irish

0:45:320:45:38

border and a panel of

Brexit-casters. The people nerdy

0:45:380:45:43

enough to devote clicking on their

phone something which says

0:45:430:45:49

"Brexit-cast."

0:45:490:45:49

Do you listen to this podcast? It is

a red letter day!

Have you heard of

0:45:540:46:00

it before?

I have, but I haven't

been invited on!

We will rectify it

0:46:000:46:05

in the New Year! That's my Christmas

promise to you both!

On the record!

0:46:050:46:09

A lot of talk of amendments I am

sure!

0:46:090:46:13

Some said he wouldn't survive

for more than a few months,

0:46:130:46:15

but Jeremy Corbyn is set to enjoy,

or endure, his third

0:46:150:46:18

Christmas as Labour leader.

0:46:180:46:19

Our Guest of the Day Stephen Kinnock

was one of his critics.

0:46:190:46:22

And here's the moment British

politics went full Borgen,

0:46:220:46:24

as Stephen received some political

advice from his wife,

0:46:240:46:26

the ex Prime Minister of Denmark,

after the surprise result

0:46:260:46:28

on election night.

0:46:280:46:30

Stephen Kinnock receiving advice

there. Wouldn't that have been the

0:47:280:47:31

time to say what a great night that

Labour had said and it was as a

0:47:310:47:35

result of Jeremy Corbyn's

leadership.

That is what I went on

0:47:350:47:38

to say in the interview but also the

story of the night is that it was

0:47:380:47:42

complete humiliation for Theresa

May.

Jeremy Corbyn, if he had

0:47:420:47:46

suffered losses at that election

rather than Labour gaining seats,

0:47:460:47:49

would he have put himself forward

for the leadership? No. You wouldn't

0:47:490:47:54

have considered it?

You weren't

going to launch a leadership bid?

0:47:540:47:59

No, I've only been an MP for five

minutes! I don't think that excludes

0:47:590:48:02

you from standing for leadership!

But did you realise at that point

0:48:020:48:06

that everything was different in the

way that you imagined before the

0:48:060:48:09

exit poll?

We spent a lot of that

campaign being many points behind in

0:48:090:48:14

the opinion polls, and even on the

last night, there was only one poll

0:48:140:48:18

predicting the result we got. I

think that everybody was pretty

0:48:180:48:22

surprised and taken aback by the

result. I am the first to say that

0:48:220:48:26

we underestimated Jeromy and

overestimated Theresa May. What I

0:48:260:48:32

thought was interesting about the

programme was that it shows politics

0:48:320:48:36

in its unvarnished and slightly

chaotic, confusing state. Also, some

0:48:360:48:39

comedy as well. With all due respect

to you, Joe, sometimes these

0:48:390:48:46

interviews, it is politician comes

on and says what they are going to

0:48:460:48:49

say and get their point across and

you try and catch us out. What I

0:48:490:48:53

like but Light on the wall

documentaries is that it shows the

0:48:530:48:56

reality. And a lot of time in the

constituency seeing my brilliant and

0:48:560:49:02

wonderful activists and constituents

-- a fly on the wall documentary.

0:49:020:49:06

That is politics.

It is about

revealing the truth and finding out

0:49:060:49:11

what politicians genuinely think

rather than what they present in

0:49:110:49:14

public. Maybe we should come to your

constituency and film! Do you think

0:49:140:49:20

Jeremy Corbyn has had a good year?

I

think so. I think we've pushed the

0:49:200:49:26

government so hard on things like

Universal Credit, we've seen the

0:49:260:49:29

government falling to pieces over

Brexit. The keys to say, yes, there

0:49:290:49:34

are two jobs for the opposition,

hold the government's feet to the

0:49:340:49:38

fire and say look, we are the

government in waiting. We are able

0:49:380:49:41

to answer the questions and we have

a brilliant manifesto to build on.

0:49:410:49:46

But we need to put more flesh on the

bones and we need to take that

0:49:460:49:50

forward.

Do you accept Jeremy

Corbyn's position is clear?

0:49:500:49:57

Unassailable. He delivered on the

campaign fantastically and I believe

0:49:570:50:00

that he is tapping into the anger

that people feel after seven wasted

0:50:000:50:05

years of Tory failures and we need

to build on that and turn it into a

0:50:050:50:10

positive vision for the country.

Yesterday, Michael was interviewing

0:50:100:50:13

Tom Watson. About who would be

leader if

0:50:130:50:20

Labour won the next election. How

long do you reckon before you are

0:50:200:50:25

bridging's Deputy Prime Minister?

I

have no idea whether that would come

0:50:250:50:29

to pass... I doubt it but if you are

saying...

You think that Labour will

0:50:290:50:33

never win or you will never be given

the chance?

If I'm honest I think

0:50:330:50:37

they will give it to Emily

Thornberry!

0:50:370:50:40

It's interesting to hear him said

that, would you support Emily

0:50:400:50:48

Thornberry being Deputy Prime

Minister?

Emily is a very talented

0:50:480:50:52

politician, she's done a great job

as Shadow Foreign Secretary. In the

0:50:520:50:57

end, it's a matter for the democracy

of our party, something that, I

0:50:570:51:00

believe passionately in. I did not

hear that interview, I have to

0:51:000:51:06

admit. I am slightly taken aback

hearing it right now, I think that

0:51:060:51:11

Tom is an absolute star of our

labour movement. He is doing a

0:51:110:51:15

fantastic job as deputy leader. I

hope that was not an indication of

0:51:150:51:19

his own plans or mindset. He is a

brilliant deputy leader.

Listening

0:51:190:51:24

to that, do you think he feels

marginalised?

I must admit that

0:51:240:51:28

hearing that for the first time as

I'd have done so now, it sounded a

0:51:280:51:34

little like he was a bit resigned,

and I find that both surprising and

0:51:340:51:40

disappointing. As I say, he's an

absolutely brilliant MP, deputy

0:51:400:51:46

leader of our party and I think that

he is the kind of guy that we

0:51:460:51:49

desperately need to be having at the

heart of our decision-making process

0:51:490:51:54

as we shake a manifesto and shape

the campaign to return a Labour

0:51:540:51:58

government in the next election.

But

he was also wrong about Jeremy

0:51:580:52:01

Corbyn initially?

Well, who really

knew? He saw that coming? We all

0:52:010:52:08

made the mistake of believing the

opinion polls and we made the

0:52:080:52:12

mistake of thinking that Theresa May

is a competent politician, and a

0:52:120:52:15

competent campaign when clearly she

is not. She is an absolute

0:52:150:52:20

liability. Nobody really saw that

coming until it happened. We had a

0:52:200:52:24

brilliant manifesto full of sensible

mainstream party policies and we

0:52:240:52:29

were facing the most inept

Conservative campaign in living

0:52:290:52:33

memory.

Has the party triumphed in

terms of candidate elections? And

0:52:330:52:39

aback actually, there's a very

lively debate going on in the party

0:52:390:52:42

but it's a mixed bag in terms of

selections, I have seen selections

0:52:420:52:47

for marginal seats where there has

been mixed... The secret is, bring

0:52:470:52:52

this together and that is the magic

of the Labour Party and the labour

0:52:520:52:58

movement, that's what we've done in

the campaign. We have a little more

0:52:580:53:02

magic for you in the show...

0:53:020:53:04

Now - politics has been pure

pantomine this year.

0:53:040:53:07

Oh no, it hasn't!

0:53:070:53:08

"Oh yes it has".

0:53:080:53:09

And come to think about it.

0:53:090:53:10

Where's Ellie?

0:53:100:53:11

She's behind you!

0:53:110:53:13

Oh yes, there she is....

0:53:130:53:21

Hello! Hello ladies and gentlemen,

boys and girls, here I am wanting to

0:53:210:53:27

tell you an interesting fairy tale

today. It is a fairy tale about an

0:53:270:53:31

MP who wanted to talk about her

local theatre in a far-away,

0:53:310:53:36

mystical and magical land called

Enfield North. That MP went all the

0:53:360:53:40

way to Parliament to talk about the

pantomime, like all good stories

0:53:400:53:44

things did not go to plan...

0:53:440:53:48

Enfield is very fortunate to benefit

from three local theatres. Indeed, I

0:53:480:53:53

will be taking my grandchildren to

the Millfield to enjoy Dick

0:53:530:53:58

Whittington over Christmas.

Point of

order, Jane Ryan. I feel that I have

0:53:580:54:09

inadvertently misled the house, Mr

Speaker, during business questions,

0:54:090:54:13

when I suggested that honourable and

right honourable member 's could

0:54:130:54:17

enjoy the pantomime of Dick

Whittington at the Millfield Theatre

0:54:170:54:20

this Christmas.

That was the last

pantomime Izod there. If honourable

0:54:200:54:25

members wish to the Millfield

Theatre, it would be to enjoy Jack

0:54:250:54:30

and the Beanstalk!

I would be very

grateful to the honourable lady,

0:54:300:54:35

that is an extremely helpful

clarification! Moreover, in the

0:54:350:54:39

process of offering that

clarification to the house, the

0:54:390:54:43

right honourable lady has served

further to highlight the important

0:54:430:54:50

work done by, and the continued

pleasure brought about by the

0:54:500:54:55

theatre which I believe to be in her

own constituency.

Oh, no, it isn't!

0:54:550:55:03

Joan Ryan is with me, through the

magic of television!

What happened?

0:55:070:55:11

I wanted to raise a point about

funding for the arts, and in

0:55:110:55:16

particular for local theatres, who

have suffered a great deal from the

0:55:160:55:19

local authority cuts imposed by the

government. I did this in the

0:55:190:55:24

business question, and I thought

that I would mention Millfield

0:55:240:55:27

Theatre, this fantastic local

theatre, that we have in Enfield and

0:55:270:55:31

the fact that we are having a

fantastic pantomime again this year!

0:55:310:55:35

But I got the name of the pantomime

wrong! Oh, no, you didn't. Oh, yes,

0:55:350:55:42

I did!

Have you seen it yet?

Not

yet, I have tickets for myself, my

0:55:420:55:47

husband and our grandchildren on the

20th of December and we are so

0:55:470:55:50

looking forward to it. I've been to

pantomime is here before and they

0:55:500:55:54

are brilliant.

It was pretty funny.

Would you take a role if they

0:55:540:55:58

decided to ask you next year?

There

are those who think that MPs appear

0:55:580:56:04

in pantomime on a daily basis in

parliament, but I can assure you

0:56:040:56:08

that we don't, it's a serious

business and I do not think that I

0:56:080:56:11

could match the performers that we

have here!

What are you doing here?

0:56:110:56:18

It is Mr Fleshcreep. We are all

forgetful from time to time, you

0:56:180:56:27

should not be held responsible.

Do

you have any politics?

Yes, we have

0:56:270:56:35

important lessons about community

spirit and being true to yourself

0:56:350:56:38

and what would happen to you if you

are a naughty, naughty man... Nigel

0:56:380:56:43

Farage! Sorry, I have a cold.

And

it's

0:56:430:56:48

a busy time of year for you?

It's

optional to go for Matilda, and one

0:56:510:56:59

doesn't like to be typecast when one

is naughty and green.

It is

0:56:590:57:04

difficult. Food for thought...

Nothing left to say, really!

You've

0:57:040:57:08

done and the puns, I got the fright

of my life!

I had the privilege of

0:57:080:57:15

being at the rugby club in my

constituency, their Christmas

0:57:150:57:22

pantomime. They did Cinderella.

Was

it funny?

It was absolutely

0:57:220:57:29

hilarious. It was the least

politically correct thing I've ever

0:57:290:57:32

seen in my life, refreshingly so!

Are in pantomime?

I'm not, I do plan

0:57:320:57:38

to go to one, I'm not sure yet, I

could go to one in my constituency,

0:57:380:57:45

a great place for pantomime.

Thank

you to both of you. But before we

0:57:450:57:52

go, back over to you, LE.

Take it

away, team!

0:57:520:58:00

# Ladies and gentlemen, boys and

girls, it's what you have all been

0:58:000:58:03

waiting for...

# Greetings each and everyone

0:58:030:58:10

# Young or old

#

0:58:100:58:18

# In the giant's lad...

# I'm a simple lad from good stock

0:58:180:58:27

# Saying that we don't have a large

# Greetings each and everyone

0:58:270:58:33

# Young or old

# Nobody dares...

0:58:330:58:39

# It's the place to be

# Living here

0:58:390:58:42

# Is the only time

# You can hear the giant roaring...

0:58:420:58:51

#

0:58:510:58:56

MUSIC: Stayin' Alive

by Bee Gees

0:58:570:58:58

It was more than just a dance movie.

0:58:580:59:01

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