Browse content similar to 22/01/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
Pressure mounts on the defence
budget with the head of the army now | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
warning the UK's ability to defend
itself "will be eroded if we don't | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
keep up with our adversaries". | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
We'll assess if Britain's
security is at risk. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
Ukip leader Henry Bolton is refusing
to resign despite the party's | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
governing body calling for him
to do so. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
So what next for the party? | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
Could the NHS receive a funding
boost once we leave the EU? | 0:01:04 | 0:01:08 | |
We'll look at whether calls
for increased health spending | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
following Brexit are realistic. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
And we'll speak to one woman
who claims the Me Too | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
movement has gone too far. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:24 | |
The quest to right the wrongs of the
past, the Me Too movement has become | 0:01:24 | 0:01:31 | |
overwhelming and dangerous. It has
developed a McCarthyite edge. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:36 | |
All that coming up. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:38 | |
And if any of the crew or myself
fall ill in the next hour | 0:01:38 | 0:01:41 | |
we're in very good hands,
because I'm pleased to say we have | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
two highly experienced medical
practitioners in the studio. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:48 | |
Registered nurse and now
Conservative MP Maria Caulfield | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
and Labour's Paul Williams,
who still practises as a GP. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
Welcome to the programme. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
Well, what better way to start today
than look at the NHS. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:01 | |
According to reports over
the weekend, Boris Johnson | 0:02:01 | 0:02:04 | |
is amongst a number of senior
ministers calling for the government | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
to pledge an extra 100 million
a week to the NHS once we've | 0:02:08 | 0:02:11 | |
left the EU. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:12 | |
So, is this feasible? | 0:02:12 | 0:02:19 | |
Do you support that? I would welcome
any additional funding to the NHS. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:24 | |
This government has put in extra
money and we have seen £437 million | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
going to cope with the winter
crisis. In my two local hospitals | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
they got under £2 million each to
deal with this pressure so extra | 0:02:34 | 0:02:39 | |
money is always welcome. He is
saying £100 million. Are you | 0:02:39 | 0:02:44 | |
disappointed it is not more. The
implication in the vote to leave | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
campaign it would be £350 million a
week. There are competing priorities | 0:02:48 | 0:02:54 | |
for spending. We will hear today
about defence budgets and the | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
argument for why we should be
spending more on that. But for me, | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
my experience of working in the NHS,
it is not only how much money | 0:03:01 | 0:03:12 | |
it is not only how much money you
are putting in the system, it is how | 0:03:12 | 0:03:13 | |
the system works. We are starting to
see help and social care coming | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
together now. In my local area, that
has transformed the experience. But | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
you accept there have been certain
cases, a crisis? Some parts of the | 0:03:19 | 0:03:29 | |
country have definitely coped better
than others. In my area social care | 0:03:29 | 0:03:34 | |
and health care came together and
reduced delayed discharges so that | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
freed up beds. The hospital could
cope with an 11% spike in the | 0:03:38 | 0:03:43 | |
admissions. In my view, until health
and social care comes together, it | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
does not matter how much money you
put into the system, it is about the | 0:03:48 | 0:03:53 | |
system itself. Paul, you work in the
NHS. If it as bad | 0:03:53 | 0:04:04 | |
NHS. If it as bad as the headline
suggests? I was thinking about this | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
question last night when I was
working in the local urgent care | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
centre in Stockton on Tees. At the
moment we do not have fully | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
integrated health and social care. I
was one of a group of MPs who wrote | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
to the Prime Minister offering to
take some of this away from the | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
bashing you get in front line
politics but it is not just about | 0:04:18 | 0:04:23 | |
health and social care. It is about
competition. We still have a problem | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
where we are trying to integrate
services and reduce some of these | 0:04:27 | 0:04:33 | |
organisational boundaries between
hospitals and community services, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
and we still have mandatory
competition in the NHS. We also not | 0:04:35 | 0:04:39 | |
doing enough in terms of prevention.
We need to move the services out | 0:04:39 | 0:04:44 | |
into the community but we have seen
in the last eight years and massive | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
reduction in the number of district
nurses and community nurses. Paul | 0:04:47 | 0:04:52 | |
mentions this letter which was
signed by 90 cross-party MPs. Why | 0:04:52 | 0:04:57 | |
did you not sign it? I don't think a
cross-party commission is the way | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
forward. We know what needs to be
done. I welcome the move in a | 0:05:02 | 0:05:07 | |
reshuffle where Theresa May has
brought health and social care into | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
one department. The question I want
to ask is will the money followed | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
that? Will we still use local
authorities as the provider for | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
social care. The fundamental shift
for health and social care coming | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
together is starting to happen. She
has written that in the title but it | 0:05:23 | 0:05:28 | |
could just be symbolic. Would you
like to see someone like Maria | 0:05:28 | 0:05:32 | |
signed the letter for cross-party
work? I think it would be helpful. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:37 | |
We have this problem where we fund
the NHS nationally, but social care | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
is organised locally, and also, we
need social care and we need to find | 0:05:41 | 0:05:49 | |
a way, as our population gets older,
as we build our out of hospital | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
services, we need to find a
sustainable way of funding it, and | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
we need to find a way that is not
just attacking each other's policies | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
all the time and we need a Mitchell
conversation with the public. Do you | 0:06:00 | 0:06:06 | |
agree that housing, environment and
education are the three most | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
important issues for this
government, is that right? No, there | 0:06:09 | 0:06:14 | |
are discussions around policy areas,
and the NHS is one of those. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:23 | |
Of course, housing is an important
area, and so was environment, but | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
there is no question that the NHS
won't be a top agenda item. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
Apparently Gavin Barwell has said
the Conservatives should not bother | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
with the NHS, Labour always wins. A
focus group says it is a lost | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
electoral cause. Do you think that
is the case? That is not something I | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
have heard. You can see the
government is making huge inroads | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
into outcomes. If you look at cancer
survival rates, they are improving | 0:06:50 | 0:06:55 | |
greatly. If you look at MRSA, that
is not the big problem it was a few | 0:06:55 | 0:06:59 | |
years ago. We have got rid of mixed
sex wards. Often we focus on the | 0:06:59 | 0:07:06 | |
negatives that some of the health
outcomes are drastically improving. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:11 | |
Do you accept that and that actually
the NHS was better prepared which is | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
what the Prime Minister has said,
even though this winter has been | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
very tough. This winter was no
surprise and I don't think the NHS | 0:07:18 | 0:07:23 | |
has been adequately prepared. If you
ask many of the children who are | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
struggling with mental health
problems, whether you think our | 0:07:26 | 0:07:29 | |
health service is doing a good
enough job, when the | 0:07:29 | 0:07:40 | |
enough job, when the government's
ambition is only a third of them get | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
treatment instead of the 25% who
currently get treatment, I think | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
they will say that there is a lot
more that could be done in the NHS. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
How much money would solve the NHS
funding crisis? It has got to be | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
about health and social care
together. How much? The Labour Party | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
pledged that £37 billion extra into
the NHS. Would that be enough? It is | 0:07:58 | 0:08:06 | |
never enough! There is an insatiable
appetite in this country for health | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
care. What is clear is in the first
62 years of the NHS was Mac | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
existence, on average the growth was
4% but in real terms it has only | 0:08:14 | 0:08:21 | |
been 1%. This is a deliberate
political decision to restrain the | 0:08:21 | 0:08:25 | |
amount of money for the NHS. What
you say to that? Jeremy Hunt has | 0:08:25 | 0:08:31 | |
called for a long-term funding
settlement. I would agree that a | 0:08:31 | 0:08:36 | |
10-year settlement is much more
suitable. We need to take politics | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
and the political cycle out of the
NHS so NHS managers can make | 0:08:39 | 0:08:44 | |
long-term plans. It is not just
about the money. If you look in | 0:08:44 | 0:08:48 | |
Wales where labour are in charge,
there is an 8% greater amount of | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
money spent per head of population,
and yet they are still having the | 0:08:52 | 0:08:56 | |
problems of ambulances queueing
around the blocks and patients being | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
treated in corridors. It is the
money that is | 0:09:00 | 0:09:07 | |
money that is being spent. And they
had a letter written to the Labour | 0:09:10 | 0:09:12 | |
run government complaining about a
lack of funding in Wales. So the | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
money is still not enough. If it
ever enough? We have got to get the | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
right strategy and that has got to
involve prevention. It has got to | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
involve taking services away from
hospitals and building really good | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
community and health care services.
It has got to be done in an | 0:09:25 | 0:09:29 | |
environment where we are not
encouraging organisations to compete | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
with each other. We are not worrying
about private sector involvement and | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
the things we have learned from the
Carillion scandal. We need to have | 0:09:36 | 0:09:42 | |
collaboration and that will involve
us taking competition out of the | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
NHS. Do you think it was helpful to
say it was disappointing not to get | 0:09:45 | 0:09:52 | |
a positive response to cross-party
work and warned his party would get | 0:09:52 | 0:09:59 | |
a reality check. Heidi Allen said
the response was not good enough and | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
Sarah will list and called on the
Prime Minister to reconsider. -- | 0:10:02 | 0:10:08 | |
Sarah Wollaston. Colleagues are
entitled to write to the Prime | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
Minister and give their views. My
opinion is a cross-party commission | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
will only tell us what we already
know and we need to get on with the | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
job. That is what Jeremy Hunt is
doing. We have a health and social | 0:10:19 | 0:10:25 | |
care Department. In my local area we
have opened up new community beds in | 0:10:25 | 0:10:30 | |
New Haven and that has stopped
people who do not need to go into | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
hospital but are not ready to be at
home to stay in community beds, and | 0:10:34 | 0:10:40 | |
to enable delayed discharges to get
out and free up beds for acute | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
admissions and that works. We don't
need to talk about it, we need to | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
get on and deliver it. Lets leave it
there. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
The question for today is Cabinet
Office Minister David Lidington has | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
confirmed what will NOT happen
to mark the moment the UK | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
leave the EU next year? | 0:10:58 | 0:10:59 | |
Was it... | 0:10:59 | 0:11:00 | |
The White Cliffs of
Dover will be lit up... | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
Big Ben will chime... | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
Street parties... | 0:11:04 | 0:11:05 | |
Or the pub licensing
hours will be extended? | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
At the end of the show Maria
and Paul will give us | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
the correct answer. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
The crisis in Ukip is deepening. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
Today three more key figures
in the party have resigned, | 0:11:18 | 0:11:20 | |
over their leader, Henry Bolton's
refusal to resign. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
Yesterday the party's NEC
backed a motion of no | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
confidence in Mr Bolton,
but he is hanging on, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
and so party members
will now vote on his future. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
Mr Bolton has been under immense
pressure after it was revealed | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
that his now former girlfriend made
racist comments | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
about Prince Harry's fiancee Meghan
Markle. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
She's apologised and said
they were taken of context. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
Yesterday on the Sunday Politics,
Henry Bolton was asked | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
by Sarah Smith why
he's refusing to go. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:52 | |
It's going to disrupt us. It will
take three to five months of a | 0:11:52 | 0:11:57 | |
refocusing on that election, it will
take us off the battlefield for the | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
Brexit debate. We cannot afford to
do that politically. At the same | 0:12:03 | 0:12:08 | |
time, the infighting that will
result will give our political | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
enemies more than enough ammunition
to pull the party apart. In fact, if | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
the NEC makes the wrong decision
today, the party will start doing | 0:12:15 | 0:12:20 | |
that itself. Politically, this party
cannot afford to have a leadership | 0:12:20 | 0:12:24 | |
election now. Just to be clear,
regardless of whether the NEC vote | 0:12:24 | 0:12:30 | |
no confidence, you will stay on as
party leader and you will have some | 0:12:30 | 0:12:35 | |
contact with Jo Marney? I will have
some contact. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:43 | |
We can speak to Ukip MEP
Gerard Batten who was | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
the party's Brexit Spokesman
but who resigned yesterday. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
They are dropping like flies. The
party is collapsing. The party is | 0:12:48 | 0:12:53 | |
not collapsing because they are
staying with Ukip. They say Henry | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
should go. Mrs Thatcher, even when
she had far more support in the Tory | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
party and then he has got, she
decided the game was up and decided | 0:13:01 | 0:13:06 | |
to resign. I am afraid he is not
facing reality. We have been very | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
generous to Henry. We are not
getting into discussions about his | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
private life. The whole thing has
got worse | 0:13:14 | 0:13:22 | |
got worse with the revelations you
are talking about, tweets and | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
e-mails, and he has not been able to
shut this down and control it. That | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
is why he has got to go because he
is not managing the situation. It is | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
all the resignations which has kept
this story in the headlines. Jo | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
Marney has apologised. Henry Bolton
said they are no longer romantically | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
linked but they are still in
contact, and yet this crisis rumbles | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
on. These people did not resign
until yesterday with the unanimous | 0:13:43 | 0:13:49 | |
vote by the NEC that they could not
support him. I thought he might have | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
some support among the NEC but once
they listened to him, and points of | 0:13:53 | 0:13:57 | |
view were exchanged, and the meeting
went on for three hours, they | 0:13:57 | 0:14:02 | |
decided to vote unanimously. He does
not have the support of key people | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
in the party and he has got to go.
But he is hanging on. Does he want | 0:14:05 | 0:14:11 | |
to be the man who goes down in
history as the man who destroyed | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
Ukip? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:22 | |
Ukip? If we don't resolve this, our
activists, candidates, donors, or | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
the key people who make the party
run will be disillusioned and walk | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
away. You think this could mark the
end of Ukip if Henry Bolton refuses | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
to step down? If this is attracted.
We have 28 days and to the EGM. If | 0:14:31 | 0:14:37 | |
the EGM endorses the National
executive committee and he still | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
refuses to go, we have to have a
leadership election. Indeed if he | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
goes, we have to have a leadership
election but we could put in an | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
interim leader to steady the party
through the local election period. I | 0:14:47 | 0:14:54 | |
offered my services as did Mike
Hookem. Neither of us have ambitions | 0:14:54 | 0:14:58 | |
to be leader but we are prepared to
step in and guide the party through | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
the difficult period. You say this
is a crisis which could end with the | 0:15:02 | 0:15:07 | |
collapsing of the party if Henry
Bolton doesn't take the action you | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
think you need to do, but there have
been seven leaders. Surely Ukip have | 0:15:10 | 0:15:18 | |
already -- are already in crisis? We
have been written off more times | 0:15:18 | 0:15:22 | |
than Count Dracula. The people who
make up this party are motivated by | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
genuine belief in making our country
and independent sovereign nation | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
again and we are the only people who
fulfil that market segment, if you | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
like. The Conservative Party doesn't
really want to leave, the Labour | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
Party doesn't seem to know what its
policy of anyway and we are the only | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
people who have been consistent over
25 years about leaving the European | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
Union and restoring our country as
an independent democratic nation | 0:15:46 | 0:15:51 | |
state. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:55 | |
What about the membership? We had
29%. Let us say gets all of his | 0:15:55 | 0:16:00 | |
support turning out and they vote
for him to stay, will you accept | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
that? Well, yes, if they vote to
keep him, but I don't see that | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
happening. What I hear from our head
office is about, and this was before | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
the meeting on Sunday, 90% of the
communications were against Henry, | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
with about 10 for, I have had
literally dozens and hundreds of | 0:16:15 | 0:16:21 | |
e-mail, text, phone calls from
people asking me, you know, is he | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
going to go is this we need to move
on and he needs to resign. I don't | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
think he has much support among the
ordinary members. You don't think he | 0:16:28 | 0:16:34 | |
will win that vote. You say you
don't have ambitions to be leader. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
Henry Bolton said it will end the
party if there is another leadership | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
contest.
It will end the party if he stay, he | 0:16:42 | 0:16:47 | |
is not Ukip. It is made up of
activists who devote their own time | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
and effort for this. He is not Ukip.
They are Ukip, and they have said | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
through the National Executive
committee, you can bet your life | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
they are taken soundings from local
members about what they should do | 0:16:59 | 0:17:03 | |
before reaching that decision, they
have made that decision. How much | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
will it cost to run a leadership
election I don't know. We will have | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
to hire a venue, I have been told
the backers of the party who are not | 0:17:11 | 0:17:16 | |
donating money while we are in this
party will put money forward to have | 0:17:16 | 0:17:22 | |
a meeting to get rid of him. Which
donors are you talking about? I am | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
not going to name them. That may
fund what you are planning to do, is | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
the party in a very poor financial
situation? I wouldn't say it in a | 0:17:31 | 0:17:37 | |
great one but every political party
has had financial crisis, this is | 0:17:37 | 0:17:42 | |
because politics is a black hole
into which you pour money. That is | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
the case, our weakness is we can't
sell people knighthoods and | 0:17:46 | 0:17:51 | |
Lordships, and we don't have the big
trade unions behind us. Can you | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
afford to run a leadership contest?
We will fine -- find way. Are you | 0:17:56 | 0:18:03 | |
down to your last few pence?
I am not the treasurer, I know we | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
are in a difficult position but we
still have a party and it is | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
maintaining itself. Would you join
Nigel Farage's party if he starts a | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
new one. No. Is he starting one? I
don't know. He said he was aren't | 0:18:14 | 0:18:20 | |
then he wasn't so I have to take his
last statement as being true. I only | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
know what I read in The Papers, I
believe he was reported as saying | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
that and denied it. Do you think it
is a good idea for him to start a | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
new party, bearing in mind the
chaos? | 0:18:33 | 0:18:34 | |
It wouldn't be a party, it would be
the Nigel Farage fan club, I have | 0:18:34 | 0:18:39 | |
had a tremendous admiration for what
he does well, he was the best | 0:18:39 | 0:18:43 | |
representative of the Leave side in
the whole campaign, he won that from | 0:18:43 | 0:18:47 | |
the media point of view, he is
fantastic at that kind of thing. Why | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
would you want to start a new one
when he could come back, if he put | 0:18:52 | 0:18:58 | |
his hat any am sure he would be
elected. How many have you got still | 0:18:58 | 0:19:02 | |
in position? Five or six have gone,
I can't see many are going to stay. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:09 | |
You could have nobody in position.
Yes, but I resigned as the Brexit | 0:19:09 | 0:19:15 | |
spokesman for Henry but I am
happening to -- happy to talk about | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
it at the drop of a hat. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:31 | |
Now, on Europe,'s doorstep. General
Carter will point out that the | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
Russian army demonstrated its
capability, by carrying out massive | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
drills near the border with Europe,
last September. And he will say that | 0:19:47 | 0:19:53 | |
Russia used long range missiles in
Syria which were deployed from a | 0:19:53 | 0:20:00 | |
rage of 1500 kilometre, he will warn
cyber ware fare can be used on the | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
battlefield and to disrupt normal
people's lives. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
It is thought that the general's
intervention has been sanctioned by | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
the Defence Secretary who is trying
to make the case for defence | 0:20:11 | 0:20:15 | |
spending in cabinet. This comes as
the Ministry of Defence is | 0:20:15 | 0:20:21 | |
reportedly trying to make 20 billion
of efficiency savings to fund new | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
military equipment. And there is
also an ongoing review of the UK's | 0:20:24 | 0:20:29 | |
security capabilities which is being
carried out by the Government's | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
national security adviser Mark said | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
by the Government's national | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
I can now speak to the Times'
Defence Editor Deborah Haynes. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:39 | |
well. Welcome. General Sir nick
Carter says we are struggling to | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
keep up with the likes of Russia in
terms of signer ware fare and | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
conventional capability, does that
sound plausible to you? | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
Very much so. It is what people are
been saying behind the scenes for a | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
long time. I think the important
fact is that Sir Nick has been | 0:20:54 | 0:21:01 | |
sanctioned to talk about this
publicly, which underlines the | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
seriousness of the challenge. How
unusual is that, that he does seem | 0:21:04 | 0:21:10 | |
to have been given permission by the
Defence Secretary? It is incredibly | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
unusual. It contrasts with what the
chiefs were allowed to say under the | 0:21:15 | 0:21:20 | |
previous Defence Secretary Sir
Michael Fallon. The Government says | 0:21:20 | 0:21:24 | |
they are spending more on defence,
why is there so much pressure on | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
this MoD budget?
That is a good question, so the | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
defence budget is rising in real
terms year on year. It is a | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
protected budget so lots of other
departments look at defence with | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
envy, the equip it they have to buy,
such as nuclear armed submarine, | 0:21:39 | 0:21:47 | |
fighter jet, warships, that is
affected by what is called defence | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
inflation and the rate of defence
inflation, so that the amount of | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
money you spend on a widget, last
year compared to next year, is much | 0:21:54 | 0:22:02 | |
higher than the 0.5 in the defence
budget. The other factor is a lot of | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
the spending that the Government's
committed to, for defence, is | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
contingent on the MoD making rather
challenging efficiency savings, the | 0:22:10 | 0:22:16 | |
permanent secretary put them at
about 20 billion over the next ten | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
year, and they are not achieving
that at the moment. And therefore, | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
in order to keep going, in order to
keep, to stand still they are having | 0:22:23 | 0:22:29 | |
to cut training, ammunition stores,
spare parts, so the Armed Forces are | 0:22:29 | 0:22:34 | |
being hollowed out at a time when
adversaries are increasing their | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
capability.
How is the battle between the two | 0:22:37 | 0:22:47 | |
going? Gavin Williamson came into
the MoD at the beginning of | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
November, and at that time, he was
presented with a series of options, | 0:22:51 | 0:22:56 | |
that the Armed Forces had been
forced to draw up as part of this | 0:22:56 | 0:23:02 | |
capability review, which proposed
rather stark cuts to the armed | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
force, cuts in manpower, up to
14,000 personnel, cuts in warship, | 0:23:06 | 0:23:11 | |
helicopters, a whole range of
different capabilities, which would | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
not have been acceptable
politically, to many backbench Tory | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
MPs, and also, would not be
acceptable for the country at a time | 0:23:19 | 0:23:24 | |
of intensifying threats, so there is
a battle to try and wake the public | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
up to this, wake them up to the fact
that the security we enjoy, is not | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
ours by right, it is not guaranteed.
Even in the US they have released a | 0:23:33 | 0:23:39 | |
national defence strategy on Friday,
in which it is very stark that they | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
talk about countries such as China,
and Russian, -- Russia being the | 0:23:43 | 0:23:49 | |
primary focus, they talk about
interstate competition as opposed to | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
terrorism, which has been the focus,
and so there is a shift in awareness | 0:23:52 | 0:23:58 | |
about how the west's kind of
military edge is eroding and the | 0:23:58 | 0:24:03 | |
need to do something about that.
Thank you. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:09 | |
Listening to that was
former First Sea Lord | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
and Security Minister Lord West. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:12 | |
Welcome. Do you agree with the
general, that the Armed Forces need | 0:24:12 | 0:24:16 | |
more money in order particularly as
he says to counter threats from the | 0:24:16 | 0:24:22 | |
likes of Russia? | 0:24:22 | 0:24:28 | |
likes of Russia? They are an threat
to the nation. It is not tan | 0:24:28 | 0:24:33 | |
existential threat. There is no
doubt, rather than by design, error | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
if you look at how Putin is behaving
such a thing could happen. Not very | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
far away, in that sense, but Deborah
talked about the need to spend more | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
money, lots of money on new
equipment. Is that where the | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
pressure lies, that it is actually,
the desire of the MoD, to spend | 0:24:49 | 0:24:55 | |
money on impressive new equipment
and savings need to be found? You | 0:24:55 | 0:25:02 | |
are buying equipment that makes it
capable for you to fight in a war. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:06 | |
So for example if you are buying a
ship it is difficult to swim to | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
where you are getting to, so you
need these thing, and, I think the | 0:25:09 | 0:25:14 | |
problem stems back further. When you
look back to 2010, Hammond was the | 0:25:14 | 0:25:20 | |
Secretary of State for Defence, he
talked of the black hole. I found | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
that extraordinary, 34 billion black
hole. He said I've solved: Now we | 0:25:24 | 0:25:30 | |
have a 25 billion black hole because
there is always a list of orders | 0:25:30 | 0:25:35 | |
coming up that don't have money. If
you don't allow for the defence | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
inflation, that Deborah was talking
about, you start getting into real | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
problemsen, and add to that the cost
of exchange rate, that is a real | 0:25:43 | 0:25:48 | |
pressure. How would you characterise
Britain'sable to immediate meet a | 0:25:48 | 0:25:54 | |
threat from the likes of Russia? We
would fight as par of Nato, we have | 0:25:54 | 0:26:01 | |
been an important part of Nato. 25%
of all military defence spending has | 0:26:01 | 0:26:06 | |
been UK's, that has been mittled
away since 2010. -- whittled. Our | 0:26:06 | 0:26:12 | |
capability has reduced by a third
since 2010, if the cuts they are | 0:26:12 | 0:26:16 | |
talking about now, the Government
says they are not going to take | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
those, if they were taken it would
be a 50% cut since 2010, can you | 0:26:19 | 0:26:23 | |
imagine if we cut half our hospitals
in this country suddenly. What do | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
you say to that? You said earlier
that there is a call of course on | 0:26:27 | 0:26:32 | |
all budgets, where would you put
defence spending? | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
Every department is going to be
calling o the Chancellor. Where | 0:26:35 | 0:26:40 | |
would would you put defence? It
should be the number one priority | 0:26:40 | 0:26:46 | |
and Gavin Williamson is making the
case for why that should be there, | 0:26:46 | 0:26:50 | |
we are committed to 2% of GDP
spending and we are the second | 0:26:50 | 0:26:56 | |
biggest spender in Nato on defence.
Interestingly, we spend just over | 0:26:56 | 0:27:02 | |
£50 billion a year on debt interest
payments which would cover the whole | 0:27:02 | 0:27:06 | |
budget and that is the tough choice
the Chancellor has to make. While he | 0:27:06 | 0:27:10 | |
is having to pay the payments on
debt, money that could be going into | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
public services, whether it is the
NHS or defence... Which choice would | 0:27:13 | 0:27:18 | |
you make? It is not mine to make. It
has to be number one or two in | 0:27:18 | 0:27:23 | |
priority. You have said we would
fight as part of a Nato force, the | 0:27:23 | 0:27:29 | |
fact we wouldn't be contributing in
the way we have in the past, does it | 0:27:29 | 0:27:36 | |
matter? Nato won't be able to do
what it is meant to do and when you | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
say it is not affordable. Having
been a minister myself, Governments | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
can afford things when they feel it
is necessary to afford them. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
Admittedly you have to squeeze other
areas but if they believe defence | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
and security of the nation is the
highest priority of any Government, | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
and I can't believe any Government,
no Prime Minister, no senior | 0:27:56 | 0:28:00 | |
minister has ever said other than
that, they have to put their Monday | 0:28:00 | 0:28:02 | |
where their mouth is. At the moment,
we are definitely, we are standing | 0:28:02 | 0:28:07 | |
into danger, we are at real risk.
Does Jeremy Corbyn feel that way? I | 0:28:07 | 0:28:13 | |
think so, yes, Labour has committed
in the election, to the 2% national | 0:28:13 | 0:28:18 | |
spend on defence, and it is
absolutely right that we listen to | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
the experts on this, if we are
putting our people potentially at | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
harms way, they need to be given
exactly the right equipment and | 0:28:25 | 0:28:28 | |
another issue as well is they need
to be paid properly. I think our | 0:28:28 | 0:28:32 | |
Armed Forces have seen a real terms
reduction in pay, as well as in | 0:28:32 | 0:28:36 | |
numbers but a real terms reduction
in pay since 2010. It is time to | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
lift the pay cap as well. Would you
be one support porting the idea of | 0:28:40 | 0:28:46 | |
boosting funding for Britain's
defences to stand up to any threat | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
from Russia? And do you think Jeremy
Corbyn would back that too? I do, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
yes, and I would, yes. What ability
Gavin Williamson the new Defence | 0:28:52 | 0:28:58 | |
Secretary, is he a good thing? He
strikes me as a good thing, I wrote | 0:28:58 | 0:29:03 | |
a letter when he took over saying he
will be judged by the military and | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
the nation as to whether he has
managed to get the resources needed | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
to ensure the defence of our
nation,ing it seems he is trying to | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
do that. This is highly unusual for
a serving is chief, it is unusual | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
for a serving chief to be allowed to
talk about the real threats and say | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
this is a risk, to say we need more
money, I have never in my 52 years | 0:29:21 | 0:29:26 | |
in the Navy I have never come across
that, that is really a different | 0:29:26 | 0:29:29 | |
thing. So there is a lot of
pressure, building up, isn't there | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
and there is going to be some sort
of battle. It has started between | 0:29:33 | 0:29:37 | |
the Defence Secretary and Treasury,
what do you make of what could be a | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
showdown between the two? You have
said all department battle for | 0:29:41 | 0:29:46 | |
Monday, if this is European what
would you say to the Chancellor? | 0:29:46 | 0:29:49 | |
There is is a lot of support on the
backbenches for the defence and for | 0:29:49 | 0:29:54 | |
defence spending and when there was
talk of reducing the 2%, | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
backbenchers came out in support of
maintaining that spending. Every | 0:29:58 | 0:30:03 | |
department has to make its case in
terms of fighting for the small pot | 0:30:03 | 0:30:07 | |
of Michelle Obama there is. You said
it was led by Jonny Mercer who is a | 0:30:07 | 0:30:11 | |
former soldier, he was on this
programme saying he wanted to hold | 0:30:11 | 0:30:15 | |
the Government's feet to fire on
defence spending. Do you think the | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
Government will have to find more
money? | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
We have to summoned to changing
threats and that is part of the | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
problem in terms of why there needs
to be more spending on defence, the | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
nature of the threat is changing,
and you have to invest in the | 0:30:26 | 0:30:32 | |
equipment in order to ensure
security is up to that threat. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:38 | |
Where could savings be found? In
defence? It is a problem because we | 0:30:38 | 0:30:44 | |
have taken so many savings out of
defence. I think it would be a rash | 0:30:44 | 0:30:50 | |
thing to say that nothing, but we
have taken saving after saving after | 0:30:50 | 0:30:54 | |
saving. The latest thing with these
efficiencies, we have taken so many | 0:30:54 | 0:31:00 | |
for so many years, they stopped
being efficiencies. They start being | 0:31:00 | 0:31:03 | |
cuts. That does not mean we cannot
find little bit here and there, but | 0:31:03 | 0:31:08 | |
effectively, the cupboard is bare.
We have taken a real hit. The size | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
of our forces, the capability, the
hollowing out is really extremely | 0:31:13 | 0:31:18 | |
worrying. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:27 | |
worrying. There is a huge
groundswell on the backbenches and | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
in the House of Lords. I have
monitored this. There is a huge | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
groundswell thing we cannot go on
like this. How serious is this? I | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
think it is very serious. In the
Commons there are 40 or so Tory MPs | 0:31:34 | 0:31:40 | |
who say we cannot go on like this.
But what can we do? If Philip | 0:31:40 | 0:31:45 | |
Hammond says that is it and the £20
billion worth of spending cuts or | 0:31:45 | 0:31:49 | |
savings will have them, what will
they do? The first secretary of the | 0:31:49 | 0:31:54 | |
Treasury is always the Prime
Minister and the Prime Minister has | 0:31:54 | 0:31:57 | |
got to think about the nation and
sometimes you have to do things that | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
might not seem expedient politically
in the short term but it is for the | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
good of the nation. She will have to
look at this very closely. Can use | 0:32:05 | 0:32:10 | |
the revolt on the backbenches
because of this? I certainly could | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
if they implement the savings they
have talked about. The government | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
say they have not been presented to
us but they do not pop up from | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
nowhere. I think there would. Just
finally, the review that has been | 0:32:21 | 0:32:27 | |
carried out by the government's
National Security adviser Mark | 0:32:27 | 0:32:31 | |
Sedwill, there are reports that he
has been trying to refocus the Army | 0:32:31 | 0:32:37 | |
away from conventional forces
towards cyber terrorism, would that | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
concern you? Side is very important
and we have got to focus on it. -- | 0:32:40 | 0:32:49 | |
cyber is important. You still need
that capability. I would rather | 0:32:49 | 0:32:53 | |
somebody through a computer at me
than hit me with a shell. You have | 0:32:53 | 0:32:56 | |
got to be a bit careful and wary of
how the balances. I will not throw | 0:32:56 | 0:33:07 | |
anything at you. Thank you. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:09 | |
Is politics getting too nasty? | 0:33:09 | 0:33:10 | |
Many are expressing concern
that the language being used by some | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
politicians is poisoning the debate. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:14 | |
Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell has
again been forced to defend comments | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
he made in 2014 where he quoted
campaigners calling for Conservative | 0:33:17 | 0:33:20 | |
MP Esther McVey to be lynched. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:21 | |
Yesterday Andrew Marr
asked John McDonnell | 0:33:21 | 0:33:22 | |
whether he would apologise for them. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:25 | |
I said then I did not support what
was happening, of course I did not | 0:33:25 | 0:33:30 | |
support that. It is for those people
who made that statement to make that | 0:33:30 | 0:33:34 | |
apology. Let me just say this. I
made a statement impala and then of | 0:33:34 | 0:33:39 | |
course I don't support this. I wish
harm to nobody. But what I do want | 0:33:39 | 0:33:44 | |
people to think about was the
government's policies they were | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
pursuing against disabled people who
were suffering -- I made a statement | 0:33:48 | 0:33:55 | |
in Parliament. Should he apologise
for those comments? There were | 0:33:55 | 0:34:01 | |
comments calling for Esther McVey to
be lynched. They were totally | 0:34:01 | 0:34:06 | |
inappropriate comments. I think
everybody in public life has a real | 0:34:06 | 0:34:11 | |
responsibility with the language
used to make sure we keep standards | 0:34:11 | 0:34:14 | |
really high and to make sure we have
to remember that when we are | 0:34:14 | 0:34:19 | |
criticising each other, we have
criticised each other today, we are | 0:34:19 | 0:34:23 | |
political opponents but we are not
enemies and we should keep | 0:34:23 | 0:34:27 | |
standards- and anybody who steps
outside of those standards should be | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
prepared to say sorry if they get it
wrong. Do think he has stepped | 0:34:31 | 0:34:36 | |
outside those standards and should
say sorry? Other Labour MPs have | 0:34:36 | 0:34:41 | |
suggested that as well. The comments
he made yesterday made clear that he | 0:34:41 | 0:34:48 | |
was quoting, he did not support what
was said. The comments around | 0:34:48 | 0:34:54 | |
lynching were totally inappropriate.
Let's turn to Labour's Sheffield MP | 0:34:54 | 0:35:01 | |
Jared O'Mara. He is still suspended
because of derogatory comments he | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
made online. Some of which we cannot
repeat on the programme. Are you | 0:35:04 | 0:35:09 | |
frustrated there has not been a
conclusion into that enquiry? It has | 0:35:09 | 0:35:14 | |
been months. It is bad for his
health as well but this has not come | 0:35:14 | 0:35:19 | |
to any conclusion. I think if
anybody, if there were any | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
allegations made against anybody,
they should be thoroughly | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
investigated. People have a right to
reply, innocent until proven guilty. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:35 | |
But any decisions should be swift.
It does seem that both of those | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
comments have been ones where women
have been the victims as well. I | 0:35:38 | 0:35:41 | |
think it is particularly tough for
women in politics that there is a | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
lot of potentially misogynist abuse
as well. UI knew because you were | 0:35:45 | 0:35:50 | |
elected in the snap election, what
is your view? Do you think standards | 0:35:50 | 0:35:56 | |
are being maintained in the Labour
Party? -- you are new. I think the | 0:35:56 | 0:36:01 | |
Labour Party needs to hear
disciplinary cases and in other | 0:36:01 | 0:36:05 | |
parties as well. This is not
particularly a party political | 0:36:05 | 0:36:09 | |
issue. But I have also seen the
nature of abuse that is coming from | 0:36:09 | 0:36:13 | |
the public as well. When leaders are
not setting the tone it is reflected | 0:36:13 | 0:36:18 | |
in public comments. Let's talk about
the Conservative MP Ben Bradley. He | 0:36:18 | 0:36:24 | |
has written blogs which were
revealed by Buzzfeed and then | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
deleted where he called people
claiming benefits of vast sea of | 0:36:28 | 0:36:33 | |
unemployed wasters. He has
apologised and there is a big | 0:36:33 | 0:36:39 | |
difference between a man writing a
blog before he becomes an MP to John | 0:36:39 | 0:36:46 | |
McDonnell not apologising for
comments about lynching a female MP. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:51 | |
He's still a vice-chair of the
Conservative Party. Is it acceptable | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
that someone of that position of
influence wrote in tweets saying he | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
had watched the police play | 0:37:00 | 0:37:08 | |
had watched the police play splat
the chav during the London riots. Is | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
that acceptable language from an MP
even though he was not elected them? | 0:37:12 | 0:37:17 | |
If we want people to come from a
variety of backgrounds who are not | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
professional politicians, they will
make mistakes. This is not something | 0:37:22 | 0:37:26 | |
he wrote in the last year, it was
several years ago. He has | 0:37:26 | 0:37:31 | |
apologised. If he did something like
that while he was elected as an MP, | 0:37:31 | 0:37:35 | |
that would be different. What about
comparing it to Jared O'Mara because | 0:37:35 | 0:37:40 | |
he also wrote his comments several
years before he became an MP and yet | 0:37:40 | 0:37:46 | |
the Conservatives were extremely
quick to condemn him and said Jeremy | 0:37:46 | 0:37:49 | |
Corbyn had turned a blind eye to
this behaviour. I have not heard | 0:37:49 | 0:37:55 | |
that he has apologised for his
comments. His comments are quite | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
violent in nature and quite abusive.
How would you describe the comments | 0:37:59 | 0:38:07 | |
by Ben Bradley? I don't think they
should be acceptable. He said | 0:38:07 | 0:38:13 | |
unemployed people should have
vasectomy is. That was not long ago. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:17 | |
It was several years ago and it was
long before he was up for election | 0:38:17 | 0:38:22 | |
and he has apologised. The
difference between him and John | 0:38:22 | 0:38:27 | |
McDonnell... You keep referring to
John McDonnell. He said he was | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
quoting somebody else and the
audience can take the view about | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
whether that is enough of John
McDonnell. In terms of equal | 0:38:35 | 0:38:39 | |
behaviour between the Labour MP
Jared O'Mara who has been suspended, | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
why has Ben Bradley not been
suspended? That is not my call to | 0:38:43 | 0:38:48 | |
make. Should he be? I accept his
apology. He said that is not the | 0:38:48 | 0:38:54 | |
sort of comment he will make in the
future. If we do want ordinary | 0:38:54 | 0:39:01 | |
people and not professional
politicians, people are crying out | 0:39:01 | 0:39:03 | |
for ordinary people to come into
politics and they will make | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
mistakes. I think they have
apologised and seen the error of | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
their ways, that should be accepted.
What you think it says about them | 0:39:10 | 0:39:15 | |
Bradley's attitude to those on
benefits and low incomes? I cannot | 0:39:15 | 0:39:22 | |
speak for Ben. You need to speak to
him. What I am feeling as a female | 0:39:22 | 0:39:28 | |
MP is this issue around violence and
threats is something that four new | 0:39:28 | 0:39:32 | |
MPs is very real. I have had several
death threats and lots of abuse. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:36 | |
They does not help when politicians
in the position of the Shadow | 0:39:36 | 0:39:40 | |
Chancellor are encouraging that sort
of behaviour. It is really putting | 0:39:40 | 0:39:44 | |
off women coming into politics. One
of the key findings we found in this | 0:39:44 | 0:39:49 | |
centenary of suffrage who are not
coming into politics, it is because | 0:39:49 | 0:39:52 | |
of the abuse and threats they get
online. Do you think Ben Bradley | 0:39:52 | 0:39:58 | |
should keep his position? I think
that is a matter for the | 0:39:58 | 0:40:03 | |
Conservative Party. I want to echo
the comments that we want people who | 0:40:03 | 0:40:06 | |
are real people to come into
politics. A friend of mine Alex | 0:40:06 | 0:40:10 | |
Sobel gave a speech on Thursday
about his family's experience of the | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
Holocaust. It was very emotional. It
was posted online and he has been | 0:40:14 | 0:40:19 | |
subjected to the most horrible, vile
anti-Semitic abuse. Not by | 0:40:19 | 0:40:25 | |
politicians and political activists
but by members of the public and | 0:40:25 | 0:40:29 | |
right-wing | 0:40:29 | 0:40:35 | |
right-wing extremists. I think the
effect of sometimes politicians | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
using really bad language about the
public might mean the public start | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
using other bad language and none of
that is acceptable. We need to have | 0:40:40 | 0:40:42 | |
a really high standard and keep the
ten really high. I do think we need | 0:40:42 | 0:40:46 | |
to lead by example and share mutual
respect. We may argue about policy | 0:40:46 | 0:40:51 | |
and political differences but we
should have mutual respect for it | 0:40:51 | 0:40:57 | |
other. All right. | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
Today, America's Secretary
of State Rex Tillerson | 0:41:00 | 0:41:02 | |
will be in London to meet
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
Then tomorrow, the Foreign Secretary
may raise his calls for an extra | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
£100 million a week for the NHS
at the Cabinet meeting. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:12 | |
On Wednesday, new Northern Ireland
Secretary Karen Bradley will host | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
a fresh round of political talks
aimed at restoring power-sharing. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:21 | |
And Theresa May and Jeremy
Corbyn will meet over | 0:41:21 | 0:41:24 | |
the dispatch box for PMQs. | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
The Prime Minister will then travel
to Switzerland on Thursday | 0:41:28 | 0:41:34 | |
for the World Economic Forum
in Davos where she is expected | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
to meet US President Donald Trump. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:39 | |
Labour's John McDonnell
is also going to attend. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:47 | |
We are joined by Lynn Davidson from
the Sun and the Guardian's Jessica | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
Elgot. One comment said we have a
government of boiled rabbits and | 0:41:56 | 0:42:04 | |
accused Theresa May of timidity and
other ministers have joined in. How | 0:42:04 | 0:42:08 | |
serious is this from MPs? Nick Boyle
is a popular backbencher. He is | 0:42:08 | 0:42:16 | |
someone that Nick Timothy said he
thoughts should have a Cabinet post | 0:42:16 | 0:42:24 | |
this time around. What he is saying
here with the boiled rabbit phrase | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
which I think was borrowed from
George Orwell, is that May is not | 0:42:27 | 0:42:33 | |
allowing ministers who might have
big bold reform and agendas for | 0:42:33 | 0:42:37 | |
their parliament, to do anything.
She is really good at putting the | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
brakes on ideas but not that good at
giving the wind to sail in. One of | 0:42:40 | 0:42:49 | |
the people he is perhaps thinking of
is Michael Gove, a close friend of | 0:42:49 | 0:42:54 | |
his and Sajid Javid is at housing.
If you look at May's reshuffle, that | 0:42:54 | 0:43:00 | |
kind of people she promoted were a
very safe pair of hands people, | 0:43:00 | 0:43:06 | |
people like David Gauke, the new
Secretary of State for Justice. I | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
think some MPs and Conservative
backbenchers are frustrated that | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
some of the bold things that May
said at the beginning of her | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
Premiership have sunk without a
trace. Lynn Davidson, has Boris | 0:43:17 | 0:43:24 | |
Johnson is a commitment from Cabinet
colleagues for a commitment to spend | 0:43:24 | 0:43:28 | |
an extra 100 million a week on the
NHS? He has support from some like | 0:43:28 | 0:43:39 | |
Chris Grayling and Penny Mordaunt.
What see later on is what will | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
happen in the week. Boris has
decided to own this. His name is all | 0:43:43 | 0:43:48 | |
over the £350 billion pledge. He
wants to take it forward. Jeremy | 0:43:48 | 0:43:52 | |
Hunt has signalled his support as
well. Do think the pressure will | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
build up on Theresa May to do more
when it comes to the NHS, bearing in | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
mind even Jeremy Hunt has talked
about the 10-year long-term spending | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
plan? I | 0:44:05 | 0:44:11 | |
think there is a bit of tension
around the Cabinet table. May's new | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
chief of staff Gavin Barwell has
been gently suggesting that if you | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
look at the polls, Labour is well
ahead on the NHS and if you're going | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
to be really cynical about it, the
Conservatives should put their | 0:44:26 | 0:44:28 | |
energies on places where they can
take on the Conservatives like | 0:44:28 | 0:44:30 | |
housing, schools and he will be
making the argument that this was a | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
referendum pledge and it is really
Boris' own reputation that he wants | 0:44:33 | 0:44:36 | |
to protect by pushing this 100
million for the NHS, as much as we | 0:44:36 | 0:44:41 | |
have seen in the headlines over the
winter that the NHS does need extra | 0:44:41 | 0:44:45 | |
funding, he will say is this really
a priority for the Conservative | 0:44:45 | 0:44:50 | |
Party? What about the World Economic
Forum in Davos this week? We hear | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
that Theresa May has secured a
bilateral with Donald Trump if he | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
goes himself, and also, in terms of
the British economy, the former | 0:44:58 | 0:45:03 | |
Treasury Minister Jim O'Neill said
the economy is doing better than he | 0:45:03 | 0:45:07 | |
expected and better generally than
he expected. What do you make of it? | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
That was great news from Jim O'Neill
this morning, a real turnaround from | 0:45:11 | 0:45:16 | |
what he said previously. We have
Theresa May going on Thursday, | 0:45:16 | 0:45:20 | |
Emmanuel Macron gives his address | 0:45:20 | 0:45:31 | |
Emmanuel Macron gives his address on
Wednesday which is his vision of how | 0:45:31 | 0:45:33 | |
the EU will go ahead in the future
and then we will have Theresa May | 0:45:33 | 0:45:36 | |
the next day. What will be
interesting this year is that we | 0:45:36 | 0:45:38 | |
have John McDonnell going as well
which is assigned people are taking | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
Labour seriously and we look forward
to what he has to say about things. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:43 | |
Thank you. | 0:45:43 | 0:45:50 | |
He is encouraged by British
prospects. I read something | 0:45:50 | 0:45:54 | |
different, he said the world is
growing but Britain's growth isn't | 0:45:54 | 0:45:59 | |
as freighted. If you look at what
the projections were for economic | 0:45:59 | 0:46:04 | |
growth, compared to the reality,
then we are £350 million a week | 0:46:04 | 0:46:11 | |
worse off, since the referendum
result, compared to the predictions, | 0:46:11 | 0:46:16 | |
and The Irony is that that is the
exact amount that the Leave campaign | 0:46:16 | 0:46:20 | |
were saying was going to be promised
as extra, it is big threat to our | 0:46:20 | 0:46:25 | |
NHS, the lack of economic growth, as
well as the threat to our staff and | 0:46:25 | 0:46:28 | |
to drugs. The lack of economic
growth but the Armageddon didn't | 0:46:28 | 0:46:33 | |
happen, British economy didn't
collapse in the immediate aftermath | 0:46:33 | 0:46:37 | |
as was warned by so many remainors,
no doubt yourself. We haven't left. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:42 | |
They said in the immediate aftermath
of that vote. We would be lucky | 0:46:42 | 0:46:47 | |
several things have happened, there
has been great global economic | 0:46:47 | 0:46:50 | |
growth and I think the fall in the
value of the pound has been a boost | 0:46:50 | 0:46:54 | |
to exports as well. . So that was
wrong that claim made at the time? | 0:46:54 | 0:47:00 | |
There were lots of predictions that
are were flying round, the 350 | 0:47:00 | 0:47:04 | |
million a week for the NHS was
wrong. Jim O'Neill said that weaker | 0:47:04 | 0:47:09 | |
British growth in the economy was
going to be buoyed by the world | 0:47:09 | 0:47:12 | |
economy, so is that what we are
looking at, as someone who voted | 0:47:12 | 0:47:15 | |
leave, we will have to rely on
stronger growth not only globally | 0:47:15 | 0:47:21 | |
but in the EU It shows you can't
listen to ex %s, it was more than | 0:47:21 | 0:47:27 | |
saying the economy was going to fall
flat. We were talking about | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
emergency budgets because it was
going to be such a big disaster, we | 0:47:31 | 0:47:35 | |
have proved the experts wrong. But
the growth has been forecast down | 0:47:35 | 0:47:39 | |
slightly for this year. Yes, but the
economy of the country is doing | 0:47:39 | 0:47:43 | |
well, we have more people in
employment, more people in full-time | 0:47:43 | 0:47:46 | |
employment. We are starting to see
wages rise, so... Where are we | 0:47:46 | 0:47:52 | |
starting to see wages rise? Where,
they They are just under inflation. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:58 | |
Inflation is at 3%. We are seeing
employment rising. We have people in | 0:47:58 | 0:48:04 | |
full-time jobs more than ever
before, and people are starting to | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
see the benefit of that and compared
to the predictions made. That is one | 0:48:07 | 0:48:13 | |
thing but in terms of wages compared
to rate of inflation, there has been | 0:48:13 | 0:48:19 | |
static wage growth or in fact it is
really cut, in most instances. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:23 | |
Compare that to most of the other
countries in the... But there has | 0:48:23 | 0:48:29 | |
been lots of employment. That is
unstable work. If you look at the | 0:48:29 | 0:48:34 | |
lowest paid they are seeing an
increase, so for the lowest paid | 0:48:34 | 0:48:38 | |
they are seeing more money in their
pockets and they are seeing more | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
security in their job, if you
compare to countries like Spain and | 0:48:41 | 0:48:46 | |
Italy where there is 40% youth
unemployment. This country has done | 0:48:46 | 0:48:50 | |
very well to make sure that didn't
happen here. It doesn't feel like | 0:48:50 | 0:48:54 | |
that to many people in the party of
the country, in the North East who | 0:48:54 | 0:49:01 | |
are on zero hours contracts who
haven't seen any real rise in the | 0:49:01 | 0:49:06 | |
money coming in, and they have seen
costs going up. With the tax | 0:49:06 | 0:49:11 | |
threshold going up that is
significant. If you look at what | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
Labour want to do, they want to do
£176 billion of borrowing, that will | 0:49:13 | 0:49:19 | |
cost every household in this country
£6500 a year, that will make a | 0:49:19 | 0:49:25 | |
significant dent. I am not sure
about that amount of borrowing. Let | 0:49:25 | 0:49:30 | |
me go back to your the comments made
by your colleague who said Theresa | 0:49:30 | 0:49:37 | |
May's Government was timid and
lacking big ideas, is that helpful? | 0:49:37 | 0:49:41 | |
That is his opinion. Are they
helpful to the Government is this I | 0:49:41 | 0:49:45 | |
don't think they are. Brexit is
going to play a major role this | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
year, we are leaving in March 2019.
We have to prepare for that. There | 0:49:47 | 0:49:53 | |
is significant domestic policies.
What are they Housing, we are | 0:49:53 | 0:49:58 | |
introducing a ban on letting agents
fee, that will make a difference for | 0:49:58 | 0:50:02 | |
they have been charged anything from
200 to £1,000. What about 5,000 | 0:50:02 | 0:50:09 | |
extra homes a year, is that radical.
Oliver Letwin is conducting a | 0:50:09 | 0:50:15 | |
review. A review. Not on is he
reviewing he will look at powers for | 0:50:15 | 0:50:26 | |
compulsory purchase order, for
developers who are not building, we | 0:50:26 | 0:50:28 | |
will tackle that. There is big
domestic policies coming through. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:34 | |
Yesterday thousands of women took
to the streets in London to call | 0:50:34 | 0:50:37 | |
for gender equality and to demand
"time's up" on sexual harassment. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:39 | |
There were similar marches in
the United States over the weekend. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:42 | |
The papers are full of stories
of male public figures being accused | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
Yesterday thousands of women took
to the streets in London to call | 0:50:56 | 0:50:59 | |
for gender equality and to demand
"time's up" on sexual harassment. | 0:50:59 | 0:51:02 | |
There were similar marches in
the United States over the weekend. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:04 | |
The papers are full of stories
of male public figures being accused | 0:51:04 | 0:51:07 | |
of inappropriate behaviour. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:08 | |
Some, however, claim things have
gone too far and the movement has | 0:51:08 | 0:51:11 | |
become an attack on a whole gender. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
Here's the journalist
Charlotte Gill with her soapbox. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:15 | |
Feminism has turned into more of a
cult than a social movement. It | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
demands that women think and read
the same way and worship the same | 0:51:18 | 0:51:22 | |
idols. We non-believers are made to
feel we are waiting to be saved or | 0:51:22 | 0:51:27 | |
in denial. The #metoo movement
started off with honourable aim, | 0:51:27 | 0:51:33 | |
after Harvey Weinstein's behaviour
was first brought to light. Women | 0:51:33 | 0:51:36 | |
had been keen to make sure that no
such instances happened again. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:42 | |
Victims of sexual assault feel
aggrieved. Terrible things have | 0:51:42 | 0:51:46 | |
happened to them and guilty men have
no always been brought to justice. | 0:51:46 | 0:51:50 | |
Twitter gave power back to many.
But in the quest to right the wrongs | 0:51:50 | 0:51:56 | |
of the past the #metoo movement has
become overwhelming an dangerous. It | 0:51:56 | 0:52:03 | |
has developed many kashty edge, it
has morphed into a suspicion against | 0:52:03 | 0:52:10 | |
an entire gender. It is similar to
the 1950s witch hunt against | 0:52:10 | 0:52:16 | |
supposed Communists but now numerous
men in Hollywood and others in | 0:52:16 | 0:52:20 | |
lesser known industries have found
their lives ruined, off the back of | 0:52:20 | 0:52:26 | |
unscrutinised accusation, almost
every day a new accusation is spread | 0:52:26 | 0:52:29 | |
on the internet. Often men have no
chance to defend themselves. We need | 0:52:29 | 0:52:36 | |
to separate serious assault from
poor attempts at flirtation, we need | 0:52:36 | 0:52:41 | |
to make distinctions between the
intentions of men, a man who wants | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
to harm women, is surely different
from one who misread red the signals | 0:52:45 | 0:52:50 | |
but most importantly we must
treatment sexual assault and sexual | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
relations with a more balanced an
proich. These are complicated | 0:52:55 | 0:52:58 | |
issues, not ones to be bandied about
on Twitter while the crowds watch | 0:52:58 | 0:53:03 | |
on, those who question the
legitimacy of #metoo are not looking | 0:53:03 | 0:53:07 | |
for no response but it is time for a
proportionate one. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
-- approach. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:15 | |
And Charlotte is here in the studio
with us. Do you understand why women | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
marched yesterday? Yes, what, I can
understand, what happened in terms | 0:53:20 | 0:53:24 | |
of Weinstein, which started this
movement, was a terrible incident, | 0:53:24 | 0:53:29 | |
there have been, there is no doubt
that terrible things have happened | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
to women but what has been allowed
to happen is it has escalated into | 0:53:32 | 0:53:37 | |
justice by the mob, so it is not so
much that I don't understand, I | 0:53:37 | 0:53:41 | |
understand the anger and what has
happened but I think it's spiralled | 0:53:41 | 0:53:45 | |
slightly out of proportion. Has it
spiralled to use your words because | 0:53:45 | 0:53:50 | |
the scale of the problem is that
big? And what it did was give women | 0:53:50 | 0:53:54 | |
the confidence to come forward and
reveal what had happened to them, | 0:53:54 | 0:54:00 | |
which is deemed inappropriate and
unacceptable. ? I think it is a | 0:54:00 | 0:54:04 | |
mixture, there are things that
needed to be sorted out but I think | 0:54:04 | 0:54:08 | |
there were other channels they could
have used than Twitter which has | 0:54:08 | 0:54:11 | |
been harnessed at the moment. Think
that humans have a natural propence | 0:54:11 | 0:54:16 | |
the I to gravitate toward crowds and
mob, and I think that is something | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
that has repeated itself throughout
history, so in the quest to set | 0:54:20 | 0:54:24 | |
justice right we have followed that
pattern. Do you agree there have | 0:54:24 | 0:54:28 | |
been a lot of injustices that need
to be corrected? I think it has been | 0:54:28 | 0:54:32 | |
conflated. There is the Harvey
Weinstein, what happened there was | 0:54:32 | 0:54:37 | |
bad but you have instances of hand
on knees and bad dates, the excuse | 0:54:37 | 0:54:44 | |
that has been given the reasoning is
that's a assault happens on a | 0:54:44 | 0:54:50 | |
spectrum, but punishment hasn't been
on a spectrum. It hasn't been the | 0:54:50 | 0:54:54 | |
case a hand on the knee gets the
same repercussion. Do you say it has | 0:54:54 | 0:55:01 | |
spiralled out of control or it has
liberated women? It has been | 0:55:01 | 0:55:09 | |
inspirational, a one years on from
suffragettes, there is is a lot left | 0:55:09 | 0:55:12 | |
in terms of getting gender equality,
with a massive pay gap. We see that | 0:55:12 | 0:55:17 | |
power different shall that still
operates, particularly within a | 0:55:17 | 0:55:22 | |
workplace, and, I think we need to
see much more power equality, there | 0:55:22 | 0:55:26 | |
is nothing wrong, I am in a
relationship that began at work, and | 0:55:26 | 0:55:32 | |
when you negotiate the beginnings of
a relationship, sometimes it is | 0:55:32 | 0:55:36 | |
complicated, sometimes it is clumsy.
It should be a risk at your own | 0:55:36 | 0:55:41 | |
expense. Do you think it has gone
too far, has it been trialled by | 0:55:41 | 0:55:49 | |
That is an element of that.
What we have seen in this and the | 0:55:49 | 0:55:54 | |
Westminster scandal as well, there
haven't been proper processes in | 0:55:54 | 0:55:57 | |
place for women who have been
victims of assault to be able to | 0:55:57 | 0:56:01 | |
make the claim, I know Andrea led
some is doing that cross-party in | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
Parliament so if people have been
victims they can come for wartment | 0:56:04 | 0:56:08 | |
we have seen rape cases where young
men have been you know, been | 0:56:08 | 0:56:12 | |
allegations made against them and
evidence not being brought forward | 0:56:12 | 0:56:15 | |
which has cleared their name, so we
need to get the balance right. If | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
the process is wrong, it does no
favours to women. Was that down to | 0:56:18 | 0:56:24 | |
poor prosecution rather than whether
women should come forward with | 0:56:24 | 0:56:27 | |
complaints? We need to have a
system. If a woman has got a | 0:56:27 | 0:56:32 | |
complaint she has a safe mechanism
and she is confident justice will be | 0:56:32 | 0:56:36 | |
done. I am not sure we are there
yet. Isn't that the problem, you say | 0:56:36 | 0:56:40 | |
people have resorted to Twitter, and
there has been a mob campaign, but | 0:56:40 | 0:56:45 | |
isn't that because they haven't been
believed, women have complained | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
about it and been told to hush it
up, or they haven't been given any | 0:56:48 | 0:56:53 | |
way of actually pursuing their
complaint? I do think women feel | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 | |
they have been let down by the
system, but two wrongs don't make a | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
right. You don't create your own
vigilante system because you don't | 0:57:00 | 0:57:04 | |
like the current one, I think that
is very dangerous. I think you know, | 0:57:04 | 0:57:11 | |
like Twitter, men have, if we
believe in true equality as | 0:57:11 | 0:57:15 | |
feminists we should give men the
right to argue back as women put | 0:57:15 | 0:57:20 | |
forward allegation, that hasn't been
done. Men haven't been given a | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
chance to respond. We need to follow
the proper democratic systems | 0:57:23 | 0:57:27 | |
otherwise it is know quality. Do you
it is a witch hunt? Cab mountain | 0:57:27 | 0:57:35 | |
ministers have lost their job, do
they have the right to reply? There | 0:57:35 | 0:57:40 | |
was an element where there was hype
and people were coming forward with | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 | |
things they, you know, that when
there wasn't evidence, and so, if | 0:57:44 | 0:57:48 | |
you are going to make complaints we
need to have a proper process, if | 0:57:48 | 0:57:53 | |
you have an accusation about a
serious sexual assault you need to | 0:57:53 | 0:57:57 | |
to go to the police not the media.
It is not fair on women who are put | 0:57:57 | 0:58:01 | |
out there as victims and they are
not able to follow the proper | 0:58:01 | 0:58:05 | |
justice process, and also, for the
men where the accusations are made. | 0:58:05 | 0:58:08 | |
We have a justice system in this
country, and there should be a way | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
of making an allegation and that to
be investigated. | 0:58:12 | 0:58:18 | |
We will have to leave it there. | 0:58:18 | 0:58:21 | |
There's just time before we go
to find out the answer to our quiz. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:24 | |
The question was Cabinet Office
Minister David Lidington has | 0:58:24 | 0:58:26 | |
confirmed what will NOT happen
to mark the moment the UK | 0:58:26 | 0:58:29 | |
leave the EU next year? | 0:58:29 | 0:58:30 | |
Was it... | 0:58:30 | 0:58:31 | |
The White Cliffs of
Dover will be lit up? | 0:58:31 | 0:58:33 | |
Big Ben will chime? | 0:58:33 | 0:58:34 | |
Street parties? | 0:58:34 | 0:58:35 | |
Or the pub licensing
hours will be extended? | 0:58:35 | 0:58:37 | |
So, Maria and Paul,
what's the correct answer? | 0:58:37 | 0:58:39 | |
I hope it is not pub licensing. I
think that is probably safe. Any | 0:58:39 | 0:58:43 | |
other ideas. Probably the white
cliffs. Big Ben won't chime. That is | 0:58:43 | 0:58:49 | |
the big news and some are unhappy
about it. | 0:58:49 | 0:58:51 | |
about it. | 0:58:51 | 0:58:52 | |
That's all for today. | 0:58:52 | 0:58:53 | |
Thanks to our guests. | 0:58:53 | 0:58:54 | |
The One O'Clock news is starting
over on BBC One now. | 0:58:54 | 0:58:57 | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow
with all the big political stories | 0:58:57 | 0:58:58 |