Browse content similar to 25/01/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
The Daily Politics. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
Bed occupancy rates at almost 95% -
11,000 ambulances were delayed | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
by over 30 minutes -
those are the latest perfomance | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
statistics from NHS England. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
Can the health service survive many
more winters like this? | 0:00:49 | 0:00:57 | |
Crime recorded by the police
in England and Wales is up - | 0:00:57 | 0:01:02 | |
as are violent crime,
knife crime and sex offences. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:04 | |
But the official crime survey
suggests crime continues to fall - | 0:01:04 | 0:01:07 | |
so, which figures are right? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:08 | |
Families Minister Nadhim Zahawi said
he left the party early | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
and the exclusive Presidents Club
won't be holding any more events | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
after revelations of sexual
harassment at their charity function | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
- but do women need more
protection against exploitation? | 0:01:16 | 0:01:23 | |
The government appoint a Muslim
woman to head up a new Commission | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
for Countering Extremism -
but why are some senior | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
figures in Muslim community
opposing her appointment? | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
I'll be talking to former
Conservative Cabinet minister | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
Sayeeda Warsi, who's
called her a "mouthpiece" | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
for ministers. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:39 | |
All that in the next hour,
and as Donald Trump, | 0:01:39 | 0:01:47 | |
Theresa May and the world's rich
and famous converge on a ski | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
resort in the Swiss Alps,
we've managed to keep one member | 0:01:50 | 0:01:56 | |
of the global elite captive
here in Wesminster. | 0:01:56 | 0:01:58 | |
It's the Mail on Sunday
columinst Peter Hitchens. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
I've never been in the global elite,
thank heavens! | 0:02:01 | 0:02:06 | |
Welcome to the programme. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:07 | |
And let's go straight to Davos,
where Theresa May is due to address | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
the World Economic Forum this
afternoon. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
Our business editor,
Simon Jack, is there. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:13 | |
Simon what - is she going to say? | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
Well, she's going to start by making
some remarks on technology. She is | 0:02:15 | 0:02:20 | |
going to call on people to bring
more pressure on tech companies to | 0:02:20 | 0:02:27 | |
do more to remove extremist content
from the internet and to make it a | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
safer place and ideally to develop
artificial intelligence which means | 0:02:31 | 0:02:36 | |
that this content will automatically
come down, artificial intelligence | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
which will recognise messages. And
she will say that Britain wants to | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
be a big part of the AI development.
The eagle has landed, Donald Trump | 0:02:41 | 0:02:52 | |
is here, he arrived helicopter about
an hour rego. I think people will be | 0:02:52 | 0:02:57 | |
looking for one thing. - just how
special is our special relationship? | 0:02:57 | 0:03:05 | |
After they were holding hands at the
White House about a year ago, | 0:03:05 | 0:03:08 | |
relations have soured a little bit
and they've publicly clashed on | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
Twitter over Donald Trump's tweeting
some far right material from | 0:03:11 | 0:03:19 | |
Britain. Then there was the UK visit
- is he coming or isn't he? Is it | 0:03:19 | 0:03:24 | |
because he didn't like Barack
Obama's deal or is it because he | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
didn't think he would get a very
warm welcome? And the other thing, | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
and I can't overemphasise this
enough, is that whilst we've been | 0:03:31 | 0:03:37 | |
here, the darling of the economic
forum has become Emmanuel Macron, | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
and the reports are that Donald
Trump is going to offer Macron a | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
visit before he offers Theresa May
the same thing. And so when it comes | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
to the question, who do I call in
Europe? Is it the UK? At the moment, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
that's not clear. Resume oblique,
even though you don't get to pick | 0:03:50 | 0:03:59 | |
your own topic in Davos, there must
be a lot of chat about Brexit? Yeah, | 0:03:59 | 0:04:06 | |
she's going to be asked about the
negotiations and how they are going. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
Philip Hammond was just on the main
stage and said they thought they had | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
made some pretty good progress and
they are hoping to get some kind of | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
transition deal framework wrapped up
by March which if true would give | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
businesses up to three years. And
the other thing is, once we are out | 0:04:17 | 0:04:24 | |
after 2019, what happens then? Is
Britain free to pursue its own trade | 0:04:24 | 0:04:28 | |
deals? The big rise for some would
be a trade deal with the US. The | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
Prime Minister was speaking to the
BBC this morning and she said, we're | 0:04:32 | 0:04:35 | |
up for it, they're up for it. But
some of Donald Trump's senior | 0:04:35 | 0:04:43 | |
ministers including the Treasury
Secretary and the economic Secretary | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
have made some positive noises that
there is an appetite to do that. So, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
both sides are willing. As you will
know there's quite a lot of | 0:04:49 | 0:04:55 | |
questions about whether they are
able to do that within the confines | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
of Article 50. David Davis is
absolutely convinced that he has got | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
freedom after March 2019 to
negotiate with whoever it likes, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:07 | |
with the idea that you sign on the
dotted line when the transition | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
period is over. She will want to
accentuate those positive noises, | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
and we will be looking for the body
language between the Prime Minister | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
and the President of the United
States. Peter Hitchens, with us | 0:05:15 | 0:05:20 | |
today, for the duration - Theresa
May in Davos not exactly | 0:05:20 | 0:05:26 | |
centrestage, Simon Jack was telling
us - it feels as though this is part | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
of the continuing narrative of the
problems for Theresa May? What is | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
she doing there anyway? Davos was
described to me as finding the worst | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
restaurant d'you know and going to
it and listening to a man talking | 0:05:38 | 0:05:43 | |
about bitcoin in a Peter Ustinov
voice. What is she doing there, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
when...? Representing Britain
presumably, if Donald Trump and | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
Emmanuel Macron... | 0:05:51 | 0:05:56 | |
Emmanuel Macron... To whom? Theresa
May cannot go on a state visit to | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
the United States by the way because
she is not head of state. The Queen | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
would do that. Whereas President
Macron can. As for the special | 0:06:02 | 0:06:07 | |
relationship, I thought everybody
now knew that the special | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
relationship was a joke and a myth
and it does not exist and if she's | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
looking for it in Davos, she will
not find it there, either. If she is | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
going to meet a Donald Trump, and
that has been hurriedly arranged, | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
for them in Davos, does she have to
try and restore better relations? I | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
don't know what you can do. The man
is such a completely loose cannon | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
that it's impossible to know what he
would do next and what he would make | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
of any meeting at all and whether it
would benefit her not. In whose eyes | 0:06:32 | 0:06:38 | |
does somebody's outstanding improved
by meeting Donald Trump? I cannot be | 0:06:38 | 0:06:44 | |
alone in thinking that. It is a
baffling thing for politicians who | 0:06:44 | 0:06:49 | |
fail at home, they try to prance
around on the international stage | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
looking more important than they
are. And it doesn't seem to me to be | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
a wise thing to do, it seems to me
yet another, how shall I put this, | 0:06:55 | 0:07:04 | |
possible putsch against her are
being planned. Former Prime Minister | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
David Cameron is also in Davos and
he has been overheard by the | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
television cameras talking about
Brexit... | 0:07:11 | 0:07:21 | |
A mistake not a disaster, is what
David Cameron described Brexit as | 0:07:34 | 0:07:38 | |
jest of course you were on the other
side of the EU referendum, but are | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
you surprised to hear him say that?
No. He did not really understand | 0:07:41 | 0:07:46 | |
what he was doing. And also he would
say that, wouldn't he? Before the | 0:07:46 | 0:07:51 | |
vote he would have said it was a
disaster. Now that it has happened, | 0:07:51 | 0:07:56 | |
he is quite rightly viewed by many
people as responsible for it and he | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
has to say it's a mistake. A mistake
not made by him, of course, but by | 0:07:59 | 0:08:06 | |
the British people for voting to
leave in the referendum which he | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
himself called! You voted to
leave... I didn't vote, I took no | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
part in the referendum, I hate
referendums. But you wanted Britain | 0:08:12 | 0:08:17 | |
to be in the EU? I want Britain to
be independent but not in this way. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
What do you make of how the
negotiations are going? I was a | 0:08:20 | 0:08:26 | |
industry correspondent for many
years and it would be foolish to | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
imagine that negotiations will not
end at the last minute if they will | 0:08:29 | 0:08:33 | |
reach a conclusion, when the last
minute comes. The only question is, | 0:08:33 | 0:08:38 | |
what form the compromises take. And
you would like Britain to stay close | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
to the single market and the
economic area? I think the Norway | 0:08:41 | 0:08:45 | |
option is the best one for us and I
think it would satisfy several | 0:08:45 | 0:08:49 | |
things. First of all it would avoid
the terrible consequences of | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
becoming a third country if we left,
which would be very, very difficult. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
These aren't terrorists, these are
huge bureaucracies on the frontiers | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
which we would face if we became a
third country trading with the | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
European Union. And also, because of
the little-known but important | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
Lichtenstein option it would give us
the chance to control our borders as | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
well. This is what Brexiteers Mike
Jacob Rees-Mogg describe as being a | 0:09:11 | 0:09:16 | |
vassal state, not defining the rules
but having to accept them? He can | 0:09:16 | 0:09:21 | |
say that if he likes. But the
problem is this. 40 years of being | 0:09:21 | 0:09:27 | |
in the European Union, much of
Britain's muscle has atrophied, and | 0:09:27 | 0:09:32 | |
we really aren't in a very strong
position to march out into total | 0:09:32 | 0:09:37 | |
independence at the moment. And if
we tried to do so I think we might | 0:09:37 | 0:09:41 | |
stumble. It's perfectly sensible for
a politician who is making a name by | 0:09:41 | 0:09:48 | |
being a billeted on this issue to
speak like this. But the trouble is | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
there will have to be a compromise.
Those of us who take the future of | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
the country seriously, or even try
to do so, must wonder what sort of | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
compromises that could be, which
would suit both sides. This was not | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
a huge, overwhelming vote to leave,
it was a narrow one, and therefore | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
we have to accept there will be a
compromise. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:12 | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
According to reports in the press,
Donald Trump told Theresa May | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
she could be like a world
famous politician. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
So, our | 0:10:19 | 0:10:20 | |
question is - which one? | 0:10:20 | 0:10:21 | |
Was it a) Winston Churchill? | 0:10:21 | 0:10:22 | |
b) Margaret Thatcher? | 0:10:22 | 0:10:23 | |
C) Ronald Reagan? | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
Or d) Neville Chamberlain? | 0:10:25 | 0:10:26 | |
At the end of the show, Peter
will give us the correct answer. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
This morning, NHS England
released the latest figures | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
on the organisation's performance. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:32 | |
In the week ending 21st January,
pressure on the service continued - | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
with 11,000 ambulance delays
of over 30 minutes - | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
and bed occupancy levels of 94.8%. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
These figures are a very slight
improvement in comparison | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
to the previous set of weekly
figures when there was a bed | 0:10:43 | 0:10:48 | |
occupancy level of 94.90% of beds,
and 12,600 last ambulance delays | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
of over 30 minutes. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
Labour have seized upon the issue. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
Tonight, they will hold an NHS rally
outside the Houses of Parliament - | 0:10:55 | 0:11:01 | |
in support of "the heroes
that work there". | 0:11:01 | 0:11:03 | |
And yesterday at PMQs,
Jeremy Corbyn attacked | 0:11:03 | 0:11:07 | |
the PM about NHS funding, calling
the extra £2.8 billion pledged | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
in last autumn's
Budget "thin gruel". | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
Theresa May said the NHS had been
"better prepared" than ever before | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
for winter pressures,
and the Government was ensuring | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
that the NHS receives more funding. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
But she faces trouble on her own
benches over the issue too - | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
Boris Johnson reportedly called
for extra NHS funding | 0:11:25 | 0:11:27 | |
at this week's Cabinet,
and backbenchers Jacob Rees Mogg, | 0:11:27 | 0:11:30 | |
Mark Pritchard and Nick Boles
have all said the health | 0:11:30 | 0:11:32 | |
service needs more money. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
And frustration was vented by some
Tory MPs on Twitter - | 0:11:35 | 0:11:37 | |
including Johnny Mercer
and Sarah Wollaston - | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
after the PM deflected an invitation
by 90 MPs across the parties to set | 0:11:40 | 0:11:45 | |
up a cross-party group to enhance
sustainability in the NHS. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:49 | |
Joining us now is Carol Jagger,
who works at the Institute | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
of Ageing in Newcastle. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
She has warned that we might be
underestimating the future increases | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
in demand on the NHS. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:02 | |
Thank you very much for joining us
on the programme. You've done | 0:12:02 | 0:12:07 | |
research which shows that as we're
living longer, with more complicated | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
conditions, our health care is going
to get more complicated as well? | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
Yes, I have. And if I can just say a
little bit about what we did... Al | 0:12:14 | 0:12:20 | |
model takes people aged 35 and over,
and with lifestyle factors, obesity, | 0:12:20 | 0:12:28 | |
smoking and physical inactivity, and
other factors, it simulates how | 0:12:28 | 0:12:34 | |
they're doing to age in terms of
accruing diseases. And yes, we found | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
that most of the increase will be in
what we term complex | 0:12:39 | 0:12:47 | |
multi-morbidity, four or more
diseases. And that is more context | 0:12:47 | 0:12:52 | |
to manage and it's going to cost
considerably more money? Yes, it is. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
But I think also it's about
organisation, too. It all boils down | 0:12:55 | 0:13:04 | |
to money but it is really, we will
need better training for health | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
professionals and longer
consultation times for GPs as well. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
So, we talk a lot about funding for
the NHS, whether it's adequate or | 0:13:13 | 0:13:17 | |
not, and your warning us that we're
going to look at substantial | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
increases in the future - can the
NHS really ever have enough money? I | 0:13:21 | 0:13:27 | |
think it has to be a longer term
plan double we've got at the moment. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:32 | |
It isn't something that we can just
shore up for a couple of years. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:38 | |
Basically our research is showing
that this is going to continue for | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
the next 25 and 30 years, and it
isn't going to get better. And | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
actually more worryingly, we also
found that people, younger people, | 0:13:44 | 0:13:50 | |
who are ageing into the older
population, are coming in with more | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
disease as well. Thank you very much
for explaining that, Carol Jagger. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:59 | |
With me in the studio is Labour's
Shadow Health Secretary Jonathan | 0:13:59 | 0:14:06 | |
Ashworth and Tory MP Andrew
Murrison, who served in the Navy as | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
a medic for 20 years. Andrew, it is
clear that there is rising concern | 0:14:09 | 0:14:16 | |
amongst voters about the NHS, 40%
saying they think it is the most | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
important issue facing the
government - is the government | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
handling it well? You're right, by
far and away it's the biggest issue | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
in my constituency mailbag at the
moment. I think the garment has | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
approached winter pressures, which
we have had for the past 30 years, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
quite well this year. We've had
advanced planning, more money going | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
in, and it has been handled I think
quite well. That is a very | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
short-term issue for the winter, but
chief executive of NHS England says | 0:14:42 | 0:14:47 | |
he needs £4 billion more and he's
not getting it? Yes, well I think | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
you should let pitch and a number of
my colleagues are saying the same, | 0:14:51 | 0:14:55 | |
notably Boris Johnson, obviously. I
have been arguing for more money for | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
the NHS for a very long time. But I
think Carol Jagger is absolutely | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
right, it's not just about the sum
total of money going into the NHS, | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
which lags well behind other
countries in Western Europe I have | 0:15:07 | 0:15:10 | |
to say, but it's also about how we
structure the NHS and what we do | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
within it, we must consider it on
preventative health as well. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:22 | |
preventative health as well. The
money is a part of it though and | 0:15:23 | 0:15:25 | |
your manifesto pledge they would be
an increase in spending for every | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
year of this Parliament but the
National Audit Office says once | 0:15:28 | 0:15:34 | |
adjusted for age, money will fall
this year rather than increase. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:41 | |
There is more money being spent and
more activity than ever before. And | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
there is more need than ever before.
Yes, there is, and Carol's comments | 0:15:45 | 0:15:50 | |
are worrying because we are and in
the 70th of our NHS, there needs to | 0:15:50 | 0:16:00 | |
be a root and branch above party
consultation on where we go from | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
here. Jonathan, you didn't sign the
letter calling for a cross-party | 0:16:03 | 0:16:10 | |
commission on the NHS because --,
did you. Is this because you think | 0:16:10 | 0:16:18 | |
the NHS are already doing a good job
I don't need to be in a cross-party? | 0:16:18 | 0:16:26 | |
No, that is not it and I know that
what my colleague saying about | 0:16:26 | 0:16:31 | |
demanding more money is actually the
case. But this is about choices to | 0:16:31 | 0:16:37 | |
make and I am sceptical that the
government would make the decisions | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
to give the NHS the funding it
really needs. Historically, and we | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
are at the 70th anniversary,
historically, the NHS for 62 years | 0:16:44 | 0:16:49 | |
to 4% uplift year by year. For the
last eight years, it's gone through | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
a tight financial squeeze of a 1%
uplift, giving us the crisis we have | 0:16:54 | 0:16:59 | |
seen on our TV screens, BBC news...
But the NHS wouldn't be getting that | 0:16:59 | 0:17:06 | |
1% -- that 4% uplift you were to
have won the election? You were | 0:17:06 | 0:17:13 | |
promising about 2%. We were
promising five billion and I would | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
have been considerably more than the
Conservatives. But we do need a | 0:17:18 | 0:17:24 | |
long-term plan for the National
Health Service. Isn't that why you | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
need to take the politics out of it
and have some kind of cross-party | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
commission that looks at the beach
beyond the lifetime of this | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
government had restructuring the
NHS? I think the problem is the last | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
royal commission we had was under
Harold Wilson's government had no | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
one thing is it really came up with
a long-term plan for the NHS when | 0:17:42 | 0:17:47 | |
they did it in the 70s. That doesn't
mean it couldn't be done better now. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:52 | |
One of the proposals we have, you
know we have the Office for Budget | 0:17:52 | 0:17:59 | |
Responsibility, is generally
respected, people accept its | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
analysis, we believe we need
something like that by health care | 0:18:01 | 0:18:03 | |
to recommend to government and give
independent reports on the funding | 0:18:03 | 0:18:09 | |
needs of the NHS, the staffing needs
of the NHS, to allow government to | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
put in that long-term planning which
we do agree is needed. I just don't | 0:18:12 | 0:18:16 | |
think the Royal commission would
give us answers on time. Does there | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
need to be 's party cooperation in
looking at the beach of the NHS? I | 0:18:19 | 0:18:25 | |
really think there does need to be
and the public expects there to be. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:31 | |
The report Jonathan is referring to
has largely been implemented over | 0:18:31 | 0:18:36 | |
the years and it's not right to say
because Royal commissions of the | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
past had taken a long time and been
expensive, they need to be in the | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
picture. We need to be sure this is
within a very tight timeline. Within | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
two years, a report which is
authoritative, which is what a royal | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
commission lens. It is certainly not
partisan. The public wants that, | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
they want politicians to come
together and agree something that is | 0:18:55 | 0:19:00 | |
closest we get to a national
religion in this country. If there | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
is one thing that unites the parties
in Westminster, it is the National | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
Health Service. I promise you this,
at the next general election, it | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
will be at the forefront of people's
minds. Peter Hitchens, cross-party | 0:19:13 | 0:19:19 | |
co-operation on the future of the
NHS. It is -- is it the only way | 0:19:19 | 0:19:25 | |
forward? Yes, I think we are all
tired of Labour saying they are the | 0:19:25 | 0:19:30 | |
only ones | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
only ones able to save the NHS. The
Conservatives are not trying to | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
destroy it even if that is what the
media says. The whole approach | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
becomes needlessly adversarial
because they make the relationship | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
bad. We had 18 years of
marketisation and 13 years of | 0:19:48 | 0:19:56 | |
splurge. The truth is that we could
spend the entire GDP on the NHS and | 0:19:56 | 0:20:03 | |
it still doesn't work. A Royal
commission could look at the huge | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
need for preventative health. The
hospital near where I live, you | 0:20:07 | 0:20:11 | |
approach it three two concentric
rings. One is of people smoking and | 0:20:11 | 0:20:19 | |
the next is a car park. These are
two contributors to ill-health. The | 0:20:19 | 0:20:28 | |
lack of exercise, with terrible
provision for public transport | 0:20:28 | 0:20:33 | |
meaning people drive. The second is
lifestyle choices which make people | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
ill. Somehow or other, I would
personally suggest tax incentives to | 0:20:36 | 0:20:41 | |
keep people healthy and fit, somehow
or other you have to do something | 0:20:41 | 0:20:44 | |
about that. Then there is the final
thing, which is that for the past 50 | 0:20:44 | 0:20:48 | |
years now, all governments have been
attacking the family and trying to | 0:20:48 | 0:20:53 | |
substitute with it for the state.
The care of the old which used to be | 0:20:53 | 0:20:58 | |
done by families is now invariably
loaded onto the health service at | 0:20:58 | 0:21:00 | |
the end of peoples lives and that is
a great deal the reason we have | 0:21:00 | 0:21:03 | |
problems every winter. There needs
to be some recognition that the | 0:21:03 | 0:21:09 | |
destruction of the family, the De
Kooning particularly of women | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
particularly into paid work has been
actually a mistake and we can't | 0:21:13 | 0:21:18 | |
substitute it either by the health
service, the welfare system or | 0:21:18 | 0:21:22 | |
social services. Some radical ideas
there from Peter. Someone has got to | 0:21:22 | 0:21:27 | |
have them. Is this something that
government ever consider, ideas as | 0:21:27 | 0:21:33 | |
radical as this? Golly, I thought
Jonathan was going to go first. I | 0:21:33 | 0:21:40 | |
like radical and blue sky thinking.
Some of the points made I would | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
agree with and sympathise with but
look, I am a politician and I'm a | 0:21:43 | 0:21:48 | |
practical person and want something
done within a reasonable time frame. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:53 | |
I very much welcome Jeremy Hunt's
10-year time frame, far more | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
realistic than the five-year one we
have been dealing with up to this | 0:21:58 | 0:22:00 | |
point. We have to work with society
and what people want and expect in | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
the 21st century. Lifestyle,
absolutely important. Smoking has | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
gone down quite significantly in
recent years. The great driver of | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
health inequalities is gradually
being addressed. But there are other | 0:22:13 | 0:22:20 | |
health-related lifestyle issues and
I think particularly obesity, so it | 0:22:20 | 0:22:25 | |
would be a mistake in any review
simply to look at how to patch | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
people up when they become sick. We
also need to look at why they become | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
sick and how government can do
things that aren't going to make | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
matters worse, because we need to
remember government interventions | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
have a habit of making things worse
rather than better. Labour argue a | 0:22:39 | 0:22:44 | |
great deal about the funding for the
NHS and we could pick through the | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
numbers and show that actually even
the Labour Party wasn't promising | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
the annual 4% uplift that the NHS
traditionally gets but this goes | 0:22:51 | 0:22:55 | |
beyond money, doesn't it? Is it not
a mistake to be constantly | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
criticising the government for the
funding they are giving the NHS | 0:22:58 | 0:23:06 | |
funding they are giving the NHS and
not looking at some of the | 0:23:07 | 0:23:08 | |
underlying structural issues?
Absolutely, there are loads of | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
fundamental issues which need to be
attacked. Funding is a fundamental | 0:23:10 | 0:23:12 | |
issue, as indeed is staffing at the
social care system. The two are | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
interlinked because as we have heard
there are lots of elderly people | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
trapped in hospitals. I would say
driving a lot of that is the £6 | 0:23:20 | 0:23:26 | |
billion worth of cuts, not the
beginning of women into the world of | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
work as Peter described it. I
actually think women working is a | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
good thing and more women should be
encouraged into the world of work. I | 0:23:36 | 0:23:41 | |
didn't say anything about equal
pay... I think the problem around | 0:23:41 | 0:23:48 | |
social care and lack of care for our
elderly is not to do with women | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
being in work. Why don't some of the
men is that home to look after them? | 0:23:52 | 0:23:57 | |
Fine by me if you can persuade them
to do it. | 0:23:57 | 0:24:06 | |
to do it. I am only opposed to the
huge pressure on women to go out to | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
paid work when in many cases they
would rather be at home raising | 0:24:10 | 0:24:16 | |
their children... This is a
significantly contentious debate but | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
at the debate for another day, I'm
afraid. We will have to leave it | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
there. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:27 | |
The Home Office has appointed
a Muslim human rights campaigner, | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
Sara Khan, to lead a new commission
to counter extremism. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
Labour say the appointment fails
to acknowledge that most | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
Muslims have no confidence
in the government's | 0:24:35 | 0:24:36 | |
Prevent strategy. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:37 | |
Adding to the criticism is former
Faith and Communities | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
minister Baroness Warsi. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:40 | |
I spoke to her earlier
from our Leeds studio and began | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
by asking her why she thought
Sara Khan wasn't qualified | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
for the role. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:46 | |
I'm sure Sara is a perfectly nice
human being but this is a very | 0:24:46 | 0:25:01 | |
important role, one which will
determine the kind of country that | 0:25:01 | 0:25:05 | |
our children will grow up in. For
that role, there are certain | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
characteristics which are essential
for the person leading in that role | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
and one of those is that this person
has to be independent, somebody who | 0:25:11 | 0:25:16 | |
can robustly challenged communities
and robustly challenged government. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
Why do you think Sarah Khan would
not be independent? I think there is | 0:25:20 | 0:25:26 | |
a whole plethora of reasons about
how Sara came about, the campaigns | 0:25:26 | 0:25:31 | |
she has run, the book she wrote, who
was it written by? How much of this | 0:25:31 | 0:25:35 | |
has been done at the bequest and
behest of the Home Office? And | 0:25:35 | 0:25:41 | |
agencies attached to the Home
Office. It is important to me that | 0:25:41 | 0:25:45 | |
whoever comes into this comes in in
a position of strength. This person | 0:25:45 | 0:25:51 | |
will to challenge communities, take
on some of the cup issues. This | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
person has to be deeply respected
and connected to the communities in | 0:25:54 | 0:25:59 | |
which he operates. Surely your
criticism of her two day then is | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
undermining that and will make her
job harder? I made my views clear | 0:26:03 | 0:26:08 | |
about this appointment months ago, I
wrote about it and put an extract of | 0:26:08 | 0:26:13 | |
that out yesterday. I have been
talking about the importance of this | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
role and how important it is that we
appoint the right person. Remember, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:22 | |
Sarah, this person is going to have
to do have some really tough | 0:26:22 | 0:26:27 | |
conversations from a position of
strength where someone may not be | 0:26:27 | 0:26:33 | |
agreeing with that person but they
will have to have a discussion. This | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
person will have to engage broadly
and deeply with all communities and | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
sadly Sara has been an advocate of
the government's policy of | 0:26:41 | 0:26:45 | |
disengagement which has meant more
and more people, individuals and | 0:26:45 | 0:26:50 | |
activists, have been considered
beyond the pale and have been | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
disengaged. For these and another --
a number of other reasons, it is | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
that the government have the
opportunity to make a very good | 0:26:57 | 0:27:00 | |
appointment, and there were some
very good candidates in the final | 0:27:00 | 0:27:04 | |
run to this role, and they chose not
to do so. Are you disappointed it | 0:27:04 | 0:27:13 | |
wasn't you, is that partly why you
feel like this? I can only be | 0:27:13 | 0:27:18 | |
disappointed if I had applied and I
didn't apply because I did not feel | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
I have the time for it. But there
were good people in the running, | 0:27:21 | 0:27:29 | |
including a prosecutor who took on
the greening gangs and to contact | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
issues that questioned and prayed
communities. That is the type of | 0:27:33 | 0:27:39 | |
person we needed in this role.
Someone independent, brave, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:45 | |
experienced, somebody with great
gravitas in this area. Sadly, that | 0:27:45 | 0:27:48 | |
is not the route the government
chose to take. You have also been | 0:27:48 | 0:27:54 | |
very critical of the government's
anti-terrorism policy, prevent. You | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
have said it is toxic and should be
paused. You still feel that way? My | 0:27:58 | 0:28:03 | |
view is that we need something in
our countries -- counterterrorism | 0:28:03 | 0:28:08 | |
policy that does people upstream
underway to terrorism. But what is | 0:28:08 | 0:28:13 | |
clear and this is not just my view
but the view of counterterrorism | 0:28:13 | 0:28:20 | |
services, police, academics, across
the political divide, when many | 0:28:20 | 0:28:27 | |
people look at this and say it is
time for an independent review of | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
prevent. It's a view that I hold and
that many practitioners who practice | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
capital letter | 0:28:36 | 0:28:44 | |
capital letter prevent need a
review. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:51 | |
review. One of the people you
mentioned actually supports Sara | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
Khan's appointment and says he does
not see how she can't be independent | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
because she criticised the
government. I can only go by my own | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
experience and I have known of Sara
and her sister who is an official at | 0:29:03 | 0:29:09 | |
the Home Office for nearly 15 years.
I have seen their journey over time, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:17 | |
they're changing views about Islam,
how they manifest it, wearing the | 0:29:17 | 0:29:23 | |
huge up, not wearing a jab, this is
something I have been involved in | 0:29:23 | 0:29:28 | |
over the years and knowing what I
know, having worked inside and | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
outside of government, I am
disappointed by this appointment | 0:29:32 | 0:29:36 | |
because I think it will hinder not
help our appointment. You criticised | 0:29:36 | 0:29:41 | |
this appointment of another Toby
Young moment on twitter. Does that | 0:29:41 | 0:29:46 | |
mean that you think Sara Khan can't
contain -- can't continue in this | 0:29:46 | 0:29:50 | |
appointment is not in the past,
appointments have been made and when | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
it becomes clear the appointment was
not the right appointment, the | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
government has reconsidered and I
sincerely hope the government will | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
reconsider this appointment. Only
this morning, I have been speaking | 0:30:01 | 0:30:05 | |
to people who engage in prevent work
at the grassroots level and two | 0:30:05 | 0:30:09 | |
people have said to me that this
appointment will actually make their | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
life and their job more difficult.
These are people who are engaged in | 0:30:13 | 0:30:19 | |
the government's own prevent work. I
spoke to a civil servant this | 0:30:19 | 0:30:24 | |
morning who said the advice was that
this appointment would make things | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
more difficult in the fight against
extremism. We will have to leave it | 0:30:27 | 0:30:31 | |
there. Thank you, Baroness Warsi. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:36 | |
We are joined now in the studio by
Dame Louise Casey. Thank you for | 0:30:36 | 0:30:43 | |
coming in. Is Sara Khan the right
person for this job? Yes, and to be | 0:30:43 | 0:30:48 | |
fair, whoever was appointed, no
matter who they were, would face a | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
barrage of criticism, and probably
in many areas of the country, people | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
going thank not someone is in the,
who is we are cracking on. I think | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
some of this is incredibly
unedifying. If only powerful Muslim | 0:30:59 | 0:31:05 | |
women and not Muslim women would
come together and get behind the | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
extremism commission and behind Sara
Khan's appointment, that would be a | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
much better way forward. The woman
hasn't even started yet, and when | 0:31:12 | 0:31:17 | |
Baroness Warsi was appointed, she
herself took some criticism from the | 0:31:17 | 0:31:22 | |
same sort of cohort at that time. I
wish she was onside and supporting | 0:31:22 | 0:31:27 | |
and making this work, because
whoever is in the job... Her | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
argument is that Sara Khan is not
able to be independent enough of | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
government, because she's been so
close to the Home Office in the | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
past? I find that extraordinary,
really. Sara Khan, she is her own | 0:31:37 | 0:31:42 | |
woman and she will say exactly what
she thinks needs to be done. She's | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
fearless, feel is around politics
and frankly around some of the stuff | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
she has had to put up with. We did
try and get her on today but you | 0:31:49 | 0:31:55 | |
wasn't available. I am a poor
substitute, but the fact of the | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
matter is that it's just not right
on the day that a long process will | 0:31:59 | 0:32:04 | |
have been gone through, this will
have had ministerial support, I | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
would imagine it is an appointment
made very much by the Home | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
Secretary. We need to get behind,
leave aside all this personality | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
stuff. It's not where we need to be.
There is a job that needs to be | 0:32:14 | 0:32:19 | |
done, Sara Khan has got the job, I
think she will do it really well, we | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
should be supporting her. I'm sorry,
I just can't really support the idea | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
that there should be a moment
official tasked with dealing with | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
extremism. The word extremism is no
business of the government to define | 0:32:32 | 0:32:38 | |
any opinion and whether it be
extremist or not and trying to stamp | 0:32:38 | 0:32:43 | |
it out. If people commit crime then
they should be prosecuted and | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
punished for it if convicted. But
the whole idea of a government | 0:32:47 | 0:32:52 | |
having opinions on people's opinions
is repulsive to me and I am amazed | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
that we can sit here discussing it
in a country which has until | 0:32:55 | 0:32:59 | |
recently been reasonably free. It is
simply not the job of the state to | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
interfere in what people think. What
they do is another matter. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
Incitement to violence is another
matter. But if we accept this, then | 0:33:06 | 0:33:10 | |
then it is not at all unforeseeable
that is not a very long time I could | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
be classified as an extremist,
subject to government investigation | 0:33:15 | 0:33:19 | |
and supervision and who knows what
else. I really am amazed that the | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
way in which people give up the
liberties which it took centuries in | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
this country to obtain. Let's let
Louise Casey address that - is this | 0:33:26 | 0:33:31 | |
a commission looking at what people
think or what they do? I am not a | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
government official. No, you're not
but we're discussing the appointment | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
of. And Sara Khan today has not been
a government official. I think it | 0:33:39 | 0:33:46 | |
would be crazy to think that we
don't have a problem in this country | 0:33:46 | 0:33:51 | |
of the extreme far right getting
more extreme, getting more members. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:55 | |
It would be crazy to think that we
don't have people in this country | 0:33:55 | 0:33:58 | |
that right now as we sit here think
that the young girls that died in | 0:33:58 | 0:34:03 | |
the Manchester Arena bombing attack
had it coming to them. That | 0:34:03 | 0:34:08 | |
actually, in the name of something,
that actually that was an acceptable | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
way and people think that... Hang
on, I don't know what you mean by | 0:34:11 | 0:34:15 | |
acceptable. In all other areas of
crime, we prevent pitch but we don't | 0:34:15 | 0:34:22 | |
have laws about what people think in
this country. It is not laws about | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
what people think, it's about a...
What do you mean by acceptable, | 0:34:25 | 0:34:28 | |
then? What I mean is there are young
people who are growing up and start | 0:34:28 | 0:34:34 | |
talking in classrooms and with their
friends about things that we would | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
find very, very close to what is
criminal, and if that was around... | 0:34:37 | 0:34:41 | |
We are in at the moment some kind of
constant for Rory over the | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
boundaries between what is
acceptable conduct for me in | 0:34:45 | 0:34:50 | |
published life and in private life
and where they cover those | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
boundaries of. I do not see anybody
questioning that debate. You might | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
be but... I question any menace to
freedom of speech and thought, | 0:34:56 | 0:35:01 | |
because these things are very
important and they are very easily | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
lost. And they are usually very
easily lost on a strong emotional | 0:35:04 | 0:35:08 | |
tide such as the one which you've
just been expressing, of these | 0:35:08 | 0:35:13 | |
people discussing opinions. I think
a lot of people's opinions are | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
disgusting, but they then must be
challenge in a debate. It is not the | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
role of the state to prosecute
people for what they think. Anything | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
short of incitement to. Although we
do not have a first amendment in | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
this country I think we should
practice as far as possible the | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
rules which follow from that. Which
is, you can say what you like short | 0:35:31 | 0:35:37 | |
of shouting fire in a crowded
theatre falsely. And I think we | 0:35:37 | 0:35:41 | |
should stick with that. I'm amazed
at the way in which, particularly on | 0:35:41 | 0:35:44 | |
the pretext of fighting terrorism,
which actually the government is not | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
very good at, actually, we introduce
laws and procedures which are | 0:35:47 | 0:35:54 | |
actually based on the idea that
there are somethings we are not | 0:35:54 | 0:35:58 | |
allowed to think. We understand what
you think about that, Peter. Louise | 0:35:58 | 0:36:03 | |
you were also in the antisocial
behaviour tsar and we have got new | 0:36:03 | 0:36:08 | |
crime statistics out today which
show that violent crime and other | 0:36:08 | 0:36:13 | |
offences as recorded by the police
have risen sharply. Robberies up by | 0:36:13 | 0:36:16 | |
20 29%... | 0:36:16 | 0:36:22 | |
Overall crimes recorded
by police in 44 forces | 0:36:22 | 0:36:24 | |
across England and
Wales rose by 14%, | 0:36:24 | 0:36:26 | |
while violent crime
increased by 20%. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:27 | |
Robberies surged by
nearly a third - 29%. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
In the same time period,
knife crime was up by 21%. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
And sex crimes also
increased by 23%. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:33 | |
This must be of concern to you? Yes.
Since 2014 in particular, we have | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
seen increases and those statistics
are robust John White is not about | 0:36:36 | 0:36:41 | |
extra reporting or awareness. It is
very clear that on that particular | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
criminal offence, that actually that
is going in the wrong direction. And | 0:36:45 | 0:36:49 | |
my own view, and Peter will probably
disagree with this as well, is that | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
I actually think it is time for us
to step back and think, what is | 0:36:53 | 0:36:57 | |
happening and we know that this is
largely an urban problem, it is a | 0:36:57 | 0:37:01 | |
specific problem in London. If we
asked the police which wards, they | 0:37:01 | 0:37:05 | |
would be able to tell us which
wards. I think the solution does not | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
lie in constant policing and
enforcement of. We do need | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
enforcement and policing, one of the
things I'm worried about is the | 0:37:12 | 0:37:15 | |
reduction of police officers and
resources, particularly in the | 0:37:15 | 0:37:17 | |
magical authors and police --
particularly in the Metropolitan | 0:37:17 | 0:37:23 | |
Police but nevertheless we ought to
know what is happening in those | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
families and in their lives, why
some of them are dropping out of | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
school, why some of them think
carrying a knife is in their | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
interest, why we are allowing
predatory, nasty gangs to take hold | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
in some of these wards and not
having a bigger response than we | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
have at the moment. There needs to
be a line in the sand, and I don't | 0:37:40 | 0:37:43 | |
see one. It has been said that knife
crime is going to be a top issue but | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
actually some more imaginative ideas
like the violence reduction unit | 0:37:48 | 0:37:52 | |
which operates in Glasgow, where
knife crime has been falling | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
substantially - why are they not
being adopted? Apart from the fact I | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
think that the Metropolitan Police
are actually very concerned about | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
resources in policing at the moment.
I think the other thing is that we | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
need to find, what started in
Scotland, and I saw your piece on | 0:38:05 | 0:38:10 | |
Sunday, and I was aware of that
work, but we need to find a | 0:38:10 | 0:38:14 | |
different approach. And one of those
different approaches is actually | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
going into the families where we
know that this is a problem and | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
trying to work out how we can stop
siblings and others growing up in | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
those families making the same
mistakes. And I think that is not a | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
policing issue, it is where things
like family intervention, which I | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
did Andrew Labour, troubled
families, which I | 0:38:32 | 0:38:40 | |
families, which I did under the
Conservatives, needs to be at the | 0:38:41 | 0:38:41 | |
forefront. You need a different
approach to these things, and it IS | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
interference, in terms of family
life, because at the moment we have | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
too many deaths. Is that too much a
state interference in family life? | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
No, the state is entitled to
interfere where there is exactly the | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
point. But it would seem to me to be
a hugely unexamined aspect of these | 0:38:53 | 0:39:00 | |
crimes, and that is the increasing
almost epidemic use of mind altering | 0:39:00 | 0:39:06 | |
drugs in certain parts of society,
which the state does nothing | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
whatsoever to prevent. The
possession of drugs is virtually | 0:39:09 | 0:39:13 | |
unprosecuted in this country now
that the process which has been | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
going on for 40 years which has
excellent rated in recent years, | 0:39:16 | 0:39:22 | |
effectively letting people off. I
have to just mention as well, going | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
back to the other subject, you
almost always find mind altering | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
drugs present in the lives of people
who are involved in terrorist | 0:39:29 | 0:39:35 | |
outrages, whether that would be
marijuana or some Chris should | 0:39:35 | 0:39:39 | |
drugs, or steroids, they are almost
invariably present. I have been | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
studying this very carefully for
some years and they're there. These | 0:39:43 | 0:39:48 | |
are a subset of violent crime which
is unusually closely studied. But | 0:39:48 | 0:39:52 | |
the refusal of the authorities to
attempt to deal with the possession | 0:39:52 | 0:39:58 | |
and use of mind altering drugs lies
behind an awful lot of this. I don't | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
agree with that. I think that is
part of the problem with how this | 0:40:01 | 0:40:10 | |
becomes a left-to-right, polarised
debate. We know where the level of | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
knife crime is very high. Win over
wards in London in particular, | 0:40:13 | 0:40:18 | |
probably Greater Manchester and
Liverpool as well. We know that | 0:40:18 | 0:40:22 | |
there are nasty, predatory gangs
that are at the top end of crime and | 0:40:22 | 0:40:24 | |
they sweep people into it, quite
often young people have not got | 0:40:24 | 0:40:30 | |
brilliant results in school, quite a
lot of them are excluded, they're | 0:40:30 | 0:40:33 | |
not in school, and underneath all of
this, it involves a much more | 0:40:33 | 0:40:39 | |
difficult conversation with
ourselves about how we help those | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
communities, and it -- in a
significantly different way to how | 0:40:42 | 0:40:47 | |
we do it at the moment. We need to
stop this, particularly on knife | 0:40:47 | 0:40:52 | |
crime, somebody on the left saying
it is an outrage and then somebody | 0:40:52 | 0:40:56 | |
on the right... We need to find a
pragmatic way forward. We have too | 0:40:56 | 0:41:01 | |
many deaths of young men in
particular on our streets in London. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
Why won't you consider the drugs
issue? You mentioned children in | 0:41:03 | 0:41:08 | |
school dropping out and... Ask any
teacher and you will find that in so | 0:41:08 | 0:41:16 | |
many cases, particularly where
they're bright, the point at which | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
they drop out is the point at which
they've started using drugs. The | 0:41:19 | 0:41:23 | |
areas that you've named, are these
areas that are free of drugs, that | 0:41:23 | 0:41:27 | |
have no cannabis farms in them? They
are overflowing with drugs, why are | 0:41:27 | 0:41:33 | |
you not making the connection? It is
one of the issues that is at play. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
One of the other jobs I've been
responsible for is homelessness, | 0:41:37 | 0:41:41 | |
where again drugs is a prevalent
part of what happens to people who | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
are on the streets as is the use of
alcohol. I'm not suggesting it is | 0:41:44 | 0:41:48 | |
not an issue, of course, but that is
not going to get the knife crime | 0:41:48 | 0:41:53 | |
statistics and the lives of young
people made safer in London and | 0:41:53 | 0:41:56 | |
nationally if we just take one
issue. We have to look at it in the | 0:41:56 | 0:42:00 | |
round. And finally, the more people
that keep dissing Prevent, the more | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
people lose confidence in it, and so
the public, who are not part of... | 0:42:05 | 0:42:13 | |
The counter-terrorism strategy, the
more that people keep undermining | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
it, the more difficult it is for the
police officers and civilians to do | 0:42:16 | 0:42:20 | |
something about. That sounds like an
argument against free discussion. I | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
completely disagree. Prevent is a
huge topic which we will need to | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
discuss at another time. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:31 | |
A director at the Department
for Education has resigned. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:35 | |
The Families Minister
was summoned to Downing Street | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
to explain HIS presence at a charity
event run by the Presidents Club | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
at the Dorchester Hotel
in London last week - | 0:42:40 | 0:42:42 | |
where hostesses were reported
to have been sexually harassed . | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
where hostesses were reported
to have been sexually harassed. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
Nadhim Zahawi said he left the event
shortly after 9.30 when he said | 0:42:46 | 0:42:50 | |
he "felt uncomfortable",
but said he did not see any | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
of the "horrific" events reported. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:53 | |
He also tweeted that he would never
attend a men-only function again. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
The government were asked to respond
to an urgent question on the story | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
What the Department for Education
needs to do, and in fact | 0:43:02 | 0:43:07 | |
all departments, all public bodies
in fact, needs to do is to make sure | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
that this sort of behaviour
isn't going on anywhere. | 0:43:10 | 0:43:12 | |
It has to not be tolerated. | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
It's not just about forcing people
to do the right thing. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
It's actually about
changing attitudes. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:25 | |
I noticed that the organisation
wishes to put it | 0:43:25 | 0:43:27 | |
on to the individual | 0:43:27 | 0:43:28 | |
members where actually what happened
was that women were bought as bait | 0:43:28 | 0:43:36 | |
for men who are rich men not a mile
from where we stand, | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
as if that is an
acceptable behaviour. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:41 | |
It is totally unacceptable. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:42 | |
It is appalling that that
continues and I support | 0:43:42 | 0:43:44 | |
the minister and her response. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:48 | |
We all have our duty to do to make
sure that those dinners | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
don't ever happen again. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:52 | |
They chose to treat the hostesses
in this way, to make them parade | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
across the stage in front of men,
to make them wear black | 0:43:55 | 0:43:58 | |
skimpy outfits and specify
the colour of their underwear. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
They chose to ask them
to drink before the event. | 0:44:01 | 0:44:07 | |
Does she agree all of the organisers
including the Presidents Club | 0:44:07 | 0:44:10 | |
and all of the private companies
involved in organising this should | 0:44:10 | 0:44:12 | |
be investigated for breach
of the law and breach | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
of the charity rules? | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
Cross-party is absolutely
the word and maybe that | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
work starts from today. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:22 | |
Some men, especially
rich and powerful men, | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
feel entitled to women. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:32 | |
They view their bodies
as playthings and they thinnk | 0:44:32 | 0:44:34 | |
that lecherous pawing | 0:44:34 | 0:44:35 | |
and groping of women
is acceptable behaviour. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
That a charity is prepared
to facilitate that behaviour | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
as long as wealthy men
are opening their cheque-books | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
beggars belief. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:43 | |
May I suggest to the minister
that this is more than a collective | 0:44:43 | 0:44:50 | |
misjudgment, that this
is a deliberate sticking up of two | 0:44:51 | 0:44:53 | |
fingers to those that they perceive
as being the PC culture. | 0:44:53 | 0:45:00 | |
So, pretty clear what MPs thought up
the Presidents Club event. Peter | 0:45:00 | 0:45:07 | |
Hitchens, our US outraged? I am not
surprised but I am a puritan and | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
perhaps a prude and I find events of
this kind as repulsive as anybody | 0:45:11 | 0:45:17 | |
and more repulsive than some. What I
am interested to see it but having | 0:45:17 | 0:45:23 | |
long opposed the permissive society
of which this is an aspect, I am at | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
last having allies among the left
wing feminists who have seemed | 0:45:27 | 0:45:35 | |
critical of this in the past. This
is a factor of it. It seems that | 0:45:35 | 0:45:42 | |
something has changed because this
may not have made the headlines it | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
did yesterday that had happened a
year ago. It is interesting to see | 0:45:45 | 0:45:50 | |
the Financial Times entering scooped
journalism. But no, it wouldn't have | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
done. This follows on from Harvey
Weinstein and all of this. Does it | 0:45:53 | 0:46:00 | |
mark a major shift in which we will
get critical of all sorts of things | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
that have been going on, maybe even
to the discomfort of you? I don't | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
know. It is possible. It is also
possible that it could be another | 0:46:09 | 0:46:14 | |
occasion for people to stand up in
public and say how good they are. I | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
was at the cinema at the weekend and
I had to sit through a pre-film film | 0:46:18 | 0:46:26 | |
watcher with all sorts of great and
good person saying they were against | 0:46:26 | 0:46:30 | |
something like this. Sure, they can
say that, but the problem -- the | 0:46:30 | 0:46:36 | |
question is, do they really oppose
the changes in our society which | 0:46:36 | 0:46:39 | |
have taken place over the last 40 or
50 years which lead to this? We used | 0:46:39 | 0:46:44 | |
to have a situation where there was
lifelong marriage | 0:46:44 | 0:46:55 | |
lifelong marriage and the
respectable chastity. These are | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
supposedly respectable people
behaving in a very disrespectful way | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
in an expensive London hotel.
Theresa May has said that she | 0:47:02 | 0:47:06 | |
thought that kind of objectification
of women in this case had been left | 0:47:06 | 0:47:10 | |
behind. She talks about it and it
obviously hasn't because we have lap | 0:47:10 | 0:47:15 | |
dancing clubs all over the place,
the Chippendales performing, it's | 0:47:15 | 0:47:18 | |
not just women. The people who own
them used to give money to the | 0:47:18 | 0:47:23 | |
Conservative Party. I don't know if
they still do. Will we see a shift | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
away from a gentrification? -- a
shift away from objectification? I'm | 0:47:27 | 0:47:36 | |
not sure. It would have to be an
enormous shift. What is it that the | 0:47:36 | 0:47:45 | |
and I have to call them this
politically correct critics in this | 0:47:45 | 0:47:49 | |
case, what is it that we need in law
to prevent this happening again? | 0:47:49 | 0:47:56 | |
Now, defence spending has
been in the news again | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
after Sir Nick Carter,
head of the army, warned | 0:47:59 | 0:48:01 | |
earlier this week that Britain's
military risked falling behind that | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
of its potential enemies
without additional investment. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:05 | |
His comments come amid widespread
speculation about possible cuts | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
to personnel and equipment and calls
to increase defence spending to 3% | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
of GDP from some MPs. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
But what about Trident -
out nuclear missile deterrent - | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
which will soon need replacing? | 0:48:14 | 0:48:15 | |
Would the money spent
on a replacement be | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
better spent elsewhere? | 0:48:17 | 0:48:21 | |
Here's my guest of the day,
Peter Hitchens, on his soapbox. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:27 | |
Britain's defence policy
is like a man who spends so much | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
on insuring himself against alien
abduction that he can't afford | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
cover for fire and theft. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:44 | |
Army chiefs have been warning this
week that our conventional defences | 0:48:44 | 0:48:48 | |
are frighteningly short
of equipment, men and money. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:52 | |
But what they won't say in public
is that a major reason | 0:48:52 | 0:48:55 | |
for the squeeze is the vast expense
of building four new Trident | 0:48:55 | 0:49:00 | |
submarines, leviathans,
hugely bigger than this 1960s relic, | 0:49:00 | 0:49:04 | |
HMS Ocelot, veteran of countless
top secret missions | 0:49:04 | 0:49:12 | |
against the Soviet Union. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:16 | |
Unlike Ocelot here, the new Trident
boats are museum pieces before | 0:49:16 | 0:49:19 | |
they've even been laid down. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:20 | |
Like her, they're Cold War
weapons but built 30 years | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
after the Cold War ended. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:27 | |
Elaborate, complex and huge,
they were designed to deter | 0:49:27 | 0:49:33 | |
the enormous Soviet armies
in East Germany, which | 0:49:33 | 0:49:35 | |
long ago melted away. | 0:49:35 | 0:49:37 | |
And they're a superpower weapon,
decades after we cease | 0:49:37 | 0:49:40 | |
to be any such thing. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:41 | |
If we were a superpower,
we could make our own missiles | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
rather than lease them from the USA,
as we more or less do. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:51 | |
Israel, a country with many
irreconcilable enemies and under far | 0:49:52 | 0:49:56 | |
more risk of attack than we are,
doesn't have anything | 0:49:56 | 0:49:59 | |
like so elaborate or costly. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
So, why should we? | 0:50:02 | 0:50:04 | |
The choice isn't between
Trident and nothing. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:12 | |
The new submarines will come
in at somewhere between £31 | 0:50:19 | 0:50:22 | |
billion over 35 years -
the government estimate - | 0:50:22 | 0:50:28 | |
or £175 million, if you DON'T
believe the government estimates, | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
as I tend not to do. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:36 | |
You can't help thinking that some
of this money will come out of funds | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
that could otherwise be spent
on usable, conventional weapons. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:48 | |
The Tories, and Labour Blairites,
think Trident is a very useful | 0:50:48 | 0:50:53 | |
weapon with which to attack Jeremy
Corbyn. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
But everyone in government knows
that many in the military privately | 0:50:57 | 0:51:05 | |
think it a vainglorious
waste of money. | 0:51:05 | 0:51:07 | |
Field Marshal Lord Bramall,
too old to care what politicians say | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
or do, openly says what many
in the military can only think - | 0:51:10 | 0:51:13 | |
that we should get rid of it. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
Nobody can call Lord Bramall
a pacifist or a defeatist. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:19 | |
He's living proof that
there's a good, hard, | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
patriotic argument for disposing
of this usable monstrosity, before | 0:51:24 | 0:51:32 | |
-- unusable monstrosity, before
it destroys our real defence system. | 0:51:38 | 0:51:45 | |
And we are joined in the studio now
by the chair of the Defence Select | 0:51:45 | 0:51:50 | |
Committee and of course Peter
Hitchens is still here. Thank you | 0:51:50 | 0:51:52 | |
very much for coming in, Julian
Lewis. What did you make of Peter | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
Hitchens argument there that
basically the money being spent on | 0:51:56 | 0:51:59 | |
Trident would be much better spent
on conventional weapons and building | 0:51:59 | 0:52:04 | |
up the army. Unfortunately, we are
nowhere near of spending enough on | 0:52:04 | 0:52:10 | |
defence irrespective of the
contribution that Trident's | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
expenditure of 31 £241 billion spent
over a considerable number of years | 0:52:12 | 0:52:19 | |
would make any difference to. I
always say to anyone using this | 0:52:19 | 0:52:25 | |
argument, if you think that we would
scoop up the money that otherwise | 0:52:25 | 0:52:29 | |
would be spent on our ultimate
insurance policy against nuclear | 0:52:29 | 0:52:32 | |
aggression, namely the Trident, if
even call that would go back into | 0:52:32 | 0:52:41 | |
defence, you are being unrealistic.
We have a commitment to spend 2% of | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
GDP on defence as part of our Nato
membership, so surely the money for | 0:52:45 | 0:52:50 | |
Trident would have to go back in?
The 2% commitment gets right to the | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
heart of the issue. The 2%
commitment is nowhere near enough. | 0:52:55 | 0:52:59 | |
In the ten long years of the Blair
government, I was shadow defence | 0:52:59 | 0:53:04 | |
Minister for the Conservatives and I
spent a lot of time arguing that | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
they weren't spending enough when
they were spending 2.5% of GDP. Even | 0:53:07 | 0:53:14 | |
when, Peter's point and it's a good
point, that the Cold War came to an | 0:53:14 | 0:53:18 | |
end at the end of the 1980s, then we
were | 0:53:18 | 0:53:28 | |
were spending 4.5% on defence. Even
after we took the peace dividend | 0:53:28 | 0:53:32 | |
cuts, in 1995 to 1996 we were
spending 3%. This would be a drop in | 0:53:32 | 0:53:41 | |
the ocean and we would be losing our
ultimate insurance policy. Peter. A | 0:53:41 | 0:53:47 | |
lot of things are a drop in the
ocean, if you like. The army is | 0:53:47 | 0:53:52 | |
suffering from a serious recruitment
crisis and I think one of the issues | 0:53:52 | 0:53:55 | |
that if they have closed out what's
up their recruitment officers. The | 0:53:55 | 0:53:58 | |
cost is tiny and it is trivial in
itself, but the Army now is smaller | 0:53:58 | 0:54:09 | |
than France was allowed after being
defeated after Germany. The Navy is | 0:54:09 | 0:54:17 | |
in a terrible crisis because of many
things, not just the overspending on | 0:54:17 | 0:54:21 | |
aircraft carriers that we can't use
and the fact that all these ships | 0:54:21 | 0:54:25 | |
don't work and can't move. It also
doesn't have enough people and it | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
has been losing over the years many
experienced NCO type people of the | 0:54:28 | 0:54:34 | |
type we can't replace and these are
not expensive things, but the drain | 0:54:34 | 0:54:37 | |
of money into Trident is one of the
main reasons why these things are | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
happening and will continue to
happen for 30 years to come. The | 0:54:41 | 0:54:45 | |
question is, do we need this thing?
Also, I think it's part of national | 0:54:45 | 0:54:50 | |
growing up. We really do need to
understand that we are an important | 0:54:50 | 0:54:54 | |
country but we're not a superpower
and we should start behaving as one. | 0:54:54 | 0:55:00 | |
We have the chance to pull out
before renewing it at fast expense | 0:55:00 | 0:55:04 | |
and that would be a very useful
moment of recognition of what we | 0:55:04 | 0:55:08 | |
really need to be. What do we really
need an army for? What do we need an | 0:55:08 | 0:55:13 | |
army for? What do we need a before?
What shape should they have? But | 0:55:13 | 0:55:18 | |
that needs a moment of profound
reflection. The fact the Cold War is | 0:55:18 | 0:55:24 | |
over would be a good starting point
for that discussion. I am sure we | 0:55:24 | 0:55:28 | |
could spend more, but within what we
do spend, transferring the money we | 0:55:28 | 0:55:32 | |
spend on this to conventional force
would make more sense. Can I just | 0:55:32 | 0:55:41 | |
say, we were not a superpower at any
point during the Cold War and we | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
spent on average 5% of GDP on
defence. But Peter's point is not | 0:55:45 | 0:55:53 | |
about spending. It's about nuclear
weapons as a status symbol. I hope I | 0:55:53 | 0:55:58 | |
have established that our defence
spending is so woefully low that | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
until we get to the point where we
have the Defence Secretary, and we | 0:56:01 | 0:56:05 | |
might just have one now, who is
prepared to say that we need to be | 0:56:05 | 0:56:09 | |
spending more in the order of 3% of
GDP, this sort of argument will make | 0:56:09 | 0:56:13 | |
no realistic difference. And you
know what, Michael Fallon who | 0:56:13 | 0:56:18 | |
defended the government blind
through all his years of -- as | 0:56:18 | 0:56:22 | |
Secretary of State for Defence now
have an article saying, do you know | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
what, we need to be spending at
least 2.5% of GDP? I think we are | 0:56:26 | 0:56:31 | |
winning that argument, Peter, let's
not divert onto Trident for the | 0:56:31 | 0:56:35 | |
money point of view. The argument
for Trident is simple. It is not to | 0:56:35 | 0:56:40 | |
deter the major armies of the Soviet
Union during the Cold War. Trident | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
is to ensure that no country can
ever be misled into thinking that it | 0:56:44 | 0:56:48 | |
could blackmail us into surrender by
the threat of using nuclear weapons | 0:56:48 | 0:56:53 | |
against us | 0:56:53 | 0:56:59 | |
against us which we would have no
means of retaliating for. Even one | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 | |
Trident submarine is able to inflict
such damage in retaliation, not only | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
is it unacceptable, it is
unavoidable. It is not a panacea, it | 0:57:04 | 0:57:10 | |
does not meet... I disagree with
you. I will continue if I can. It | 0:57:10 | 0:57:19 | |
does not deter every form of
military threat but what it does do | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
is deter military attack which you
would not be capable of defending | 0:57:22 | 0:57:30 | |
against without it. As you well
know, British nuclear weapons were | 0:57:30 | 0:57:36 | |
initially | 0:57:36 | 0:57:41 | |
initially developed after discussion
with the Americans, due to a | 0:57:41 | 0:57:49 | |
situation where they were made very
angry. The building was specifically | 0:57:49 | 0:57:55 | |
to demonstrate that we were still
important. Then this deal was | 0:57:55 | 0:58:01 | |
dependent on the Americans for our
missiles. Then it became an issue of | 0:58:01 | 0:58:05 | |
whether we could describe -- destroy
Moscow. The initiation of these were | 0:58:05 | 0:58:11 | |
so we could continue to destroy
Moscow. These submarines... We won't | 0:58:11 | 0:58:20 | |
have to leave it there. Thank you
very much for coming in, Julian | 0:58:20 | 0:58:24 | |
Lewis. | 0:58:24 | 0:58:25 | |
There's just time before we go
to find out the answer to our quiz. | 0:58:25 | 0:58:28 | |
The question was which world famous
politician did Donald Trump say | 0:58:28 | 0:58:31 | |
Theresa May could be like? | 0:58:31 | 0:58:32 | |
Was it: | 0:58:32 | 0:58:33 | |
A) Winston Churchill | 0:58:33 | 0:58:34 | |
B) Margaret Thatcher | 0:58:34 | 0:58:35 | |
C) Ronald Reagan | 0:58:35 | 0:58:36 | |
or D) Neville Chamberlain? | 0:58:36 | 0:58:37 | |
So Peter, what's the correct answer? | 0:58:37 | 0:58:39 | |
I don't know, but when they are
being rude to other politicians, | 0:58:39 | 0:58:43 | |
they normally say Neville
Chamberlain. But probably Winston | 0:58:43 | 0:58:47 | |
Churchill. Apparently it was Winston
Churchill. He had just watched a | 0:58:47 | 0:58:54 | |
film and apparently said Theresa May
have the potential to be just like | 0:58:54 | 0:58:57 | |
him. | 0:58:57 | 0:58:58 | |
That's all for today. | 0:58:58 | 0:58:59 | |
Thanks to our guests. | 0:58:59 | 0:59:01 | |
The one o'clock news is starting
over on BBC One now. | 0:59:01 | 0:59:03 | |
Bye bye. | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 |