08/02/2018 Daily Politics


08/02/2018

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LineFromTo

Our I'm afraid they may be

disappointed for some time to come.

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The sense that we get with these

meetings is that they have not been

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a forum for making decisions but for

expressing opinions. I am large,

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everybody has set out what their

views are but there has not been an

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attempt to draw the feds together

and say we will discount that all go

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with that. It has been an occasion

for Mrs May to take on where the

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balance of opinion lies with key

Cabinet ministers which means the

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time frame for getting clarity would

seem to me to be disappearing

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several weeks hence. Which, of

course, leaves nerves jangling

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because we move ever closer to that

crunch March EU summit when we have

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to have some sort of clarity about

what it is we are seeking. You say

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this has been an opportunity for

Cabinet ministers to air their own

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views about what they see as the

relationship with the EU once we

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leave. Is there going to be a

compromise having gathered that

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information to try and find a way

through and bridge these two sides,

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one who wants to say closely aligned

with the EU and another which wants

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a clean break.

That is almost going

to be inevitable because of the

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fundamental divide within the

Cabinet over the issue of trade.

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Some ministers like Philip Hammond

believe the name of the game is

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staying close to the EU to minimise

damage to the economy and others

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like Boris Johnson who believe the

golden opportunity is to cut loose

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and strike free trade deals.

Fundamental difference about whether

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national interest lies. The way you

bridge that, keep everyone on board

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is frankly by some rather elastic

language, I would point, for

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example, to the big soup of

compromise reached over the Northern

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Ireland border.

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Ireland border. Everybody has talked

about regulatory and alignment. I

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think creative language will have to

be used. But that hits the buffers

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when the EU say, that's fine but

what does it mean. If you are not

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able to say precisely what you want,

the danger is the EU negotiator

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simply sees that the -- seize the

initiative and say hypothetically

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here is a free-trade deal. You see

the process to the EU. When

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widespread allegations of sexual

harassment and bullying are merged

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at Westminster in autumn, the fact

that that it should happen at the

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seat of democracy should be a source

of shame for is all, said the Prime

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Minister.

The leaders of the main

political parties agreed to set up a

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working group to address those

concerns. The new proposals were

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agreed yesterday and were set up

this morning. A new grievance

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procedure, after hearing from over

250 people who have experienced

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sexual harassment at Westminster in

the past year. The committee,

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chaired by Andrea Leadsom said that

harassment had been a feature of the

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lives of many people working in

Parliament. The grievance procedure

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would provide practical and

emotional support to complainers

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regardless of whether they report

the matter to the police or not.

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They will be a trained sexual

violence adviser who will lead the

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process that could result in a

written apology or workplace

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training for the perpetrator. Based

on the balance of probabilities,

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action will be taken based on the

work of the parliamentary committee

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for standards. Confidentiality of

all those involved will be protected

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throughout. MPs who are found to

have harassed staff could face

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suspension or recall. The proposals

will be debated by MPs later this

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month. Angela, just listening to

that, do you think there is enough

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that's new that is going to toughen

up the procedure for MPs and staff

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and also the culture?

It's a good

start but it won't be the end of it.

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I worked as a researcher in

Parliament. Working in Parliament

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for most people including me has

been a positive experience. It makes

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it worse when you have these

complaints from people of sexual

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harassment or bullying. This is why

the reporters so essential to take

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action.

The numbers are quite

alarming. You say it is a great

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place to work and for the majority

it is but one in five have

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experienced or witnessed harassment

or inappropriate sexual behaviour.

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That shocks me. I think it's

appalling. If you talk to women in

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other workplaces you hear the same

story but I would has to be better

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and set an example. I think there is

something that we could move more

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quickly on, the adviser that is

available to report things too. That

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is new and as quickly as possible,

it's something in the Labour Party

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we've been pushing for and I are

pleased it's in there.

The unions

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say to completely change the culture

of bullying and harassment there has

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to be formal union recognition.

Do

you agree with them? I do. I

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encourage anyone who works in

Parliament to be a member of their

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trade union. It's a safe space for

those dealing with such issues.

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There should be formal recognition

and any member of staff working in

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any place of work should benefit

from trade union membership.

Should

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that have been a priority for the

Labour members working on these

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recommendations?

They are trying to

get agreement across the board. I

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think it's been quite a challenging

exercise for everybody involved.

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Understanding this scale of the

problem. We tend to talk about

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sexual harassment and I think

bullying and intimidation in the

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workplace is equally unpleasant. It

may not be so severe in places but

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if you are facing bullying day in,

day out and are uncomfortable for

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any reason in the workplace, then

something has to be done and action

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needs to be taken.

What about the

sanctions? It looks as though there

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will be the power, which already

existed in some ways, in terms of

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MPs recall, that will come after

investigation and the ability to

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sack peers.

Fears can be expelled

for different reasons.

Including

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this.

I'm slightly uncomfortable

about recall for MPs. Thereafter

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recommendations about recall is. I'm

not sure on where in the scale it

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should be introduced. I'd like to

see the power of the constituents on

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this one. There is a way forward on

it but I'm not 100% certain in my

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mind what that is yet.

Would you be

unhappy if that much power was

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vested in to the Parliamentary

Commissioner for standards?

It has

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to be wider than the Parliamentary

commission. If we put it in the

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hands of one person, it would rather

be uncomfortable for me. There's a

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lot of discussion going on and they

haven't reached agreement yet. The

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work the committee has put in has

been extraordinary, the time, energy

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and effort has been excellent and I

congratulate them for what they've

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done so far.

We will return to this

later in the programme. The Prime

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Minister is getting 20 of advice

from within her party on what

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position to take on Brexit. She's

not the only one. Jeremy Corbyn is

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also pressed by his party to come

out in favour of a much closer

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relationship with the EU after

Brexit. Have a look.

The leadership

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is waiting to see if public opinion

moves in a particular direction. I'm

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saying, I would argue, in the end,

you've got to lead and make the

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argument for your values.

I don't

want to be a rebel. I want our party

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to seize this opportunity to

demonstrate that in contrast of

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these wretched government, we can

live up to our national

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responsibilities and our

internationalist heritage.

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Both government and parties are

finding it hard to move forward so a

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referendum on a new question about

the future relationship may become

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unavoidable.

The question is whether

or not Jeremy Corbyn, John McDonnell

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and the Shadow Cabinet will lead us

to a position where we can defeat

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the government. Call me

old-fashioned, it is in the interest

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of opposition to beat the government

on votes.

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We're joined now by Alastair

Campbell, he's former director

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of communications to Tony Blair,

he's editor at large

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of the New European,

and he's found time to write

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a new novel about football

and terrorism in the 1970s.

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And of course Angela Smith

is still here, I don't know if she's

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working on any novels.

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A subject for another time!

Cathartic it may be.

I am living in

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a novel at the moment.

You're not

alone. The same subject kept

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cropping up there in those various

clips from Labour politicians. Lead.

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Why don't your own MPs and peers

think the parties doing enough to

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lead on Brexit?

I think we are doing

enough to lead on Brexit.

They are

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not convinced.

Let's see what

happens in the House of Lords and

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the House of Commons. We haven't got

the arithmetic and the House of

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Commons. You look at the Article 50

amendment, they were able to

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persuade their own people to vote

down our amendment. There are key

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issues coming up that will come back

to the House of Commons that are key

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Labour Party policies on dealing

with this, things like the

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transition period, Henry VIII

powers. When we talk about bringing

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back control to the UK, what we see

is bringing back control to

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government ministers. There are

issues like that, and the Charter of

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fundamental rights, those kinds of

issues we have shown great

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leadership on.

Do you share the

frustration of MPs who feel that the

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leadership is not being clear about

what it wants in terms of exit Mac

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and an end relationship with the EU

and it needs to come off the fence?

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I don't think it is the frustration

of MPs, out in the country there is

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massive frustration, and I agree

with Angela, I've followed a lot of

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the Lords debate, and hopefully that

Lords will change this process but I

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think in the Commons, the fact

yesterday Jeremy Corbyn yet again

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cannot bring himself to challenge

them on this single most important

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issue facing the country, the fact

that millions and millions of people

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are genuinely concerned that with

opposition and government handling

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it differently but saying this is

happening, people are feeling

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frustrated. Parliament isn't

reflecting the debate in the

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country's.

What you say to that that

Jeremy Corbyn doesn't bring up the

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issue of Brexit in the Commons?

He

does bring it up.

PMQs?

One of the

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great tragedies of Brexit is the

other issues the government should

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be dealing with like the housing

issue and the health service.

Even

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when he does that, the reason why

the government is failing on things

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like health and housing and crime

and these things is because they are

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totally consumed on sorting out

their own problems on Brexit and

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Jeremy Corbyn doesn't challenge

Theresa May on it.

It is perfectly

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evident and the Labour Party as a

whole and Jeremy and Keir Starmer

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have put pressure on the government

to say what your policy is.

What

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about Labour's policy?

We have

cabinet had a meeting to decide what

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their policy is on Brexit. Theresa

May wants to go around the table and

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hear their policy on Brexit.

I don't

think I've ever known a government

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quite as shambolic as this one.

Every day I will turn on the news,

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the Cabinet is meeting to decide the

strategy on Brexit. They've been

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saying it since June 2016 and Labour

should be ripping them apart.

Let's

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talk about that because a YouGov

poll which I've probably seen says

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that if Labour was to come off the

fence on Brexit, it will lose

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support. I know it is a poor but it

is quite interesting.

Because it is

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difficult.

You could say Labour are

playing a strategic binder because

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by being opaque and by focusing on

the government, they've actually

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managed to hold the support they've

got.

I'll admit at the last election

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I thought we'd get punished for

appearing to be a bit leave and a

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bit remain. It didn't happen. But

this is happening. And I think

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leadership ultimately is facing the

country up to the biggest issues and

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there is a real danger the

government strategy appears to be we

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have to get outcome what may,

whatever the cost. Labour's strategy

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is we will do that as well but in a

better way.

That is unfair because

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we've been clear. I campaign for

remain, our policy was remain. Since

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the referendum what we have said is

the benefits of the single market

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and the customs union, they are in

the EU. When we leave, we are not

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saying we won't negotiate, we have

to negotiate what our position is if

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we leave. That is where the failure

of government lies. Then negotiating

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strategy from the beginning has been

to rule out the very things the

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public didn't have a say on.

So

you're saying you want to be clearer

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about remaining in the single market

and Customs union.

During the

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transition phase, when these things

are being negotiated...

That is

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transition.

It is. What the

government cannot do is rule it out

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and not look at the evidence to say

this is dangerous. They are taking

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the economy to a cliff edge and the

government has to take

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responsibility. If we were in

government, we would have those

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negotiations on a completely

different bases.

Alistair Campbell

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has said in the last few weeks

Brexit will happen and it will be a

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disaster. Do you accept you are a

part of what Alistair Alistair

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Campbell has said?

If we were in the

negotiations, it would be different,

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we would start from a different

point.

One of the reasons I think

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people talk about public opinion

shifting...

It isn't, is it, the

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Paul Sturrock show that.

If you have

the government and most of the media

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saying done deal, can't revisit it,

that debate doesn't reopen. Jeremy

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Corbyn could be leading this but he

doesn't want to.

The government

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doesn't want to give information.

Let's talk about Labour.

The point

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is valid. Public opinion is not

getting information. Whenever the

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government does an analysis of the

economy they tried to hide the

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information and it has to be dragged

kicking and screaming. What is clear

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nobody wants the kind of extremist

Brexit Jabez Rees Mogg and others

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are advocating.

Throughout this

interview, with all due respect,

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you've criticised the process, and

the government for the way they are

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handling the negotiations. Alistair

Campbell and others are talking

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about a statement of intent, about

what you want, about what the party

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is trying to achieve. There hasn't

been much of that, has there, for

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Labour?

What the state is meant of

intent is that they want is we will

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remain in the EU. That isn't the

state of intent. The Labour Party

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has accepted the referendum but we

are saying we would do it

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differently.

Do you accept that,

that is to position the Labour Party

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will not take up?

I accept the

difficulty of the politics.

So you

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really believe they will say we will

remain in the EU at some point?

The

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politics are difficult and I hope

that as this goes on, we reach an

0:23:410:23:46

understanding that if we decide the

costs are too high, the coast is too

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great, the risk to Britain's

standing in the world is too great,

0:23:490:23:54

the threat to the peace process in

Northern Ireland is real, they have

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to follow through the logic. That

means the public should be

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entitled...

As a former strategist,

you wouldn't be saying that at this

0:24:010:24:05

point, because you admitted facing

both ways has helped.

I'll tell you

0:24:050:24:09

why I would because the country is

desperate for leadership. They are

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not getting it from the government.

The government is a total, complete

0:24:140:24:19

shambles. Amber Rudd did a very

revealing interview at the weekend

0:24:190:24:22

where she said we are looking for

something all of us can live with.

0:24:220:24:26

She meant the ministers. They've

lost sight of the public and I think

0:24:260:24:29

if Labour came out and lead, we've

looked at this, every which way,

0:24:290:24:34

this is going to damage. Look at the

stuff yesterday. In the north-east,

0:24:340:24:39

West Midlands, Northern Ireland and

Scotland, that is what they want.

0:24:390:24:45

Would that be a more honourable

position to take, never mind the

0:24:450:24:51

representative view of Labour,

because at the moment all you are

0:24:510:24:54

doing is coming in behind the

government on saying we are doing

0:24:540:24:57

this badly, you're doing this wrong,

but you haven't got a suggestion.

We

0:24:570:25:02

are saying how we would do

differently and that is important.

0:25:020:25:05

To achieve what?

If there is going

to be Brexit in this country, and

0:25:050:25:09

that is where we are, and we have

accepted the result, we don't

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believe the way that it is doing. It

doesn't have a policy on trade.

We

0:25:150:25:20

shouldn't leave until been away

where we are going.

Where is Labour

0:25:200:25:24

going?

We needed transition phase.

Don't laugh. I'm not laughing at the

0:25:240:25:30

transition phase, it is about

delaying the point at which Labour

0:25:300:25:34

is clear what they want to do.

We

have been clear. In negotiations we

0:25:340:25:39

would never rule out being in the

customs union or the single market.

0:25:390:25:43

And, yet, whenever there's been a

vote in parliament, it seems to be

0:25:430:25:46

the whip is to say don't vote for

it.

It hasn't. These are matters for

0:25:460:25:52

negotiation, and we want to keep

certain things like the Northern

0:25:520:25:55

Ireland border. That is interesting.

It is not resolved. They can't

0:25:550:26:01

resolve it and how they will

resolved.

Was it wrong for the

0:26:010:26:05

Labour Party to whip their MPs to

stop them voting against some of the

0:26:050:26:11

Brexit deals that have gone through

so far?

The Brexit deal, we haven't

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seen it.

We have had Article 50. The

withdrawal bill. And Labour MPs were

0:26:160:26:23

told not to vote against these

things.

There's not to do with the

0:26:230:26:26

deal. Article 50 was to start the

process which was recognising the

0:26:260:26:31

referendum. The withdrawal bill is

nothing to do with leaving the EU.

0:26:310:26:34

What it is a technical bill, about

bringing all the protections

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contributed to back into UK domestic

law.

The meaningful vote, Alistair,

0:26:420:26:46

what would you like to see Labour

MPs do? RU minded, if you were in

0:26:460:26:51

the position now advising Jeremy

Corbyn, vote against the deal

0:26:510:26:57

whatever its content?

No, you have

to judge it. Keir Starmer some while

0:26:570:27:00

ago set out the tests again which

you should judge it. And I cannot

0:27:000:27:07

see I've laboured to that how they

can support the deal which is...

0:27:070:27:10

That in effect is saying vote down

the deal, and what would happen?

I

0:27:100:27:15

am in an easier position than Angela

because I'm not part of the inner

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circle and I can say what I think. I

think this is going to be a disaster

0:27:180:27:22

and I think there is a danger we are

helping the government facilitate

0:27:220:27:26

this disaster. Because they are not

being held to account, I think, in

0:27:260:27:30

the way they should be, particularly

in the Commons where Theresa May

0:27:300:27:34

seems to go to PMQs week after week,

she will get health, education...

0:27:340:27:39

That seems like praise of the House

of Lords, Alistair!

Alistair

0:27:390:27:44

Campbell is saying you are not

holding the government to account in

0:27:440:27:47

the way that you should or could be.

I think we are stop with they should

0:27:470:27:51

be run ragged at the moment.

They

are. The polls don't indicate you

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are going ahead of them.

But what

should we do about the country?

If

0:27:560:28:01

you look, they are forced provide

information and publish information

0:28:010:28:04

they've tried to keep secret showing

how damaging Brexit, as they wanted,

0:28:040:28:08

will be.

So we should say we don't

want it. We need to go out and say

0:28:080:28:18

to the people who voted leave, we

know why you're angry, that is what

0:28:180:28:20

we will address but we went do it

with this hard Brexit.

And is to

0:28:200:28:24

Campbell, thank you.

0:28:240:28:25

The front page of this

morning's Daily Telegraph has

0:28:250:28:27

caused a bit of a stir,

thanks to its front page (GFX

0:28:270:28:30

which says the investor

George Soros, known as 'the man

0:28:300:28:33

who broke the Bank of England',

is 'backing a secret

0:28:330:28:35

plot to thwart Brexit'.

0:28:350:28:37

The report, which carries the byline

of Theresa May's former

0:28:370:28:40

adviser Nick Timothy,

is about the plan by one

0:28:400:28:42

remain-supporting campaign group

to try and bring about a second

0:28:420:28:45

referendum to keep

Britain in the EU.

0:28:450:28:48

Well, the former Ukip MEP

Steven Woolfe has claimed that

0:28:480:28:52

what he calls "ultra-remainers"

are now speaking with a single

0:28:520:28:54

voice and wants leave

campaigners to do the same.

0:28:540:28:57

He joins me now from Strasbourg.

0:28:570:29:03

I don't quite understand what you

are worried about, unless you are

0:29:030:29:07

running scared from a running

campaign, then perhaps it is doing

0:29:070:29:10

the same as the leave campaign

before the referendum.

No, what I

0:29:100:29:15

was concerned about is that the

Remainers or the ultra-Remainers, as

0:29:150:29:21

you have heard they don't want to

listen to voters. What they've done

0:29:210:29:25

since that referendum is being

incredibly well organised, they've

0:29:250:29:30

managed to get their people in

places to be able to articulate

0:29:300:29:33

their view that this will be a

disaster, that leaving the EU will

0:29:330:29:39

cause immense problems in the

future. And also they are incredibly

0:29:390:29:43

well funded. As you can see from

today's newspapers, what you have is

0:29:430:29:47

a UK-based organisation, accepting a

large donation from a non-UK banking

0:29:470:29:54

billionaire. To be frank, that

reminds me a little bit of the

0:29:540:29:59

Rodolfo plot in 1571 where we had a

Florentine banker trying to help a

0:29:590:30:04

team assassinate Elizabeth the

first. This isn't the first time

0:30:040:30:06

that we've had...

Billionaires

bankrolling political campaigns is

0:30:060:30:12

hardly new, is it? This isn't

anything secret, they are hiding in

0:30:120:30:16

plain sight. The complaints you're

making you could say the leave

0:30:160:30:20

campaign was a pretty aggressive,

legitimate campaign that wanted to

0:30:200:30:23

leave the EU and the government has

said the country will leave the EU.

0:30:230:30:27

You are part of a campaign that

wanted the government to rule out

0:30:270:30:30

the possibility of staying in the

single market. They've said it will

0:30:300:30:33

happen and the same with the customs

union so where are these

0:30:330:30:37

ultra-Remainers taking the lead?

0:30:370:30:43

I think what you hear when I go up

and down the country as I still do

0:30:430:30:48

and attend meetings and speak to

ordinary people, they are incredibly

0:30:480:30:53

fed up by the negativity that seems

to be on the media particularly, not

0:30:530:30:58

just shows like this, in all

different

0:30:580:31:05

different ways, that seems to say

that the leave vote is a

0:31:070:31:09

particularly bad scenario. They

don't feel they have had their voice

0:31:090:31:21

of a I've argued that we should have

had a low regulation Singapore style

0:31:230:31:31

of economy moving forward that

includes all the key points that we

0:31:310:31:35

wanted, control of our borders,

having our money back and trying to

0:31:350:31:41

distribute that in the right places,

making sure that the European Court

0:31:410:31:45

of Justice is no longer in control

and democracy for our people and not

0:31:450:31:49

from outside.

Have you got support

from everyone and all of these

0:31:490:31:54

groups you have brought together?

I've certainly been talking to them

0:31:540:31:59

and you saw with my actions taking

Lord B Jones and John Longworth from

0:31:590:32:08

leave means leave and from Labour

leave. We've been pulling these

0:32:080:32:13

groups together. You'll see some

action on these front in the next

0:32:130:32:17

few weeks.

Do you need Nigel Farage

two, and leave this -- lead this

0:32:170:32:26

newsgroup?

No, absolutely not. Nigel

has taken a very different route. He

0:32:260:32:38

still articulates leaving the

European Union and is a strong voice

0:32:380:32:42

but he's someone who's more

interested in being in the media as

0:32:420:32:48

a personality. What we need to look

at now is those people have

0:32:480:32:51

experience in dealing with the

economy of Britain, those needed to

0:32:510:32:55

create laws across a whole spectrum

of policy issues, those are the

0:32:550:33:00

people with experience that you have

got. In UK politics and in the

0:33:000:33:06

Conservative Party, you have the DRG

with Jacob Rees-Mogg and others like

0:33:060:33:11

that.

Would you Jacob Rees-Mogg to

lead this new group? You seem

0:33:110:33:19

infused by his leadership of the

European research group.

I think

0:33:190:33:24

he's doing a sterling job with the

DRG and all the other Conservative

0:33:240:33:29

MPs backing Brexit to the hilt. They

would obviously be part of this.

0:33:290:33:38

Over the next 4-6 weeks where we've

got a mission critical timing ahead

0:33:380:33:43

of others because of what I see in

the European Parliament in relation

0:33:430:33:45

to the vote and the way that the

commission is pulling together a

0:33:450:33:50

whole series of papers that we need

to challenge that and put forward

0:33:500:33:54

some very positive messages. I know,

for example, that one group is run

0:33:540:34:00

bringing a really strong message of

how Britain would be successful in a

0:34:000:34:03

big way if we adopt a certain set of

criteria.

Arron

0:34:030:34:15

criteria.

Arron Banks is encouraging

former Ukip members to flood back

0:34:150:34:18

into the Conservative Party to

change the course of history again.

0:34:180:34:21

Do you agree with Arron Banks?

I

think through the people he speaks

0:34:210:34:32

to in his group, the decision that

there is no political party

0:34:320:34:37

challenging the Labour Party or

those in the ultra-Remainer groups.

0:34:370:34:43

Should they be brought back into the

Conservative Party?

I think they

0:34:430:34:51

have to take their own decision. If

they are Labour supporters they can

0:34:510:34:58

back John Mills and the Labour lead

group. If they are like myself

0:34:580:35:04

conservatives who believe in a

different vision for Europe they can

0:35:040:35:07

fight the Conservative fight. This

is a national group of the future

0:35:070:35:14

and we need people from different

political front to attack the

0:35:140:35:22

ultra-Remainers.

Are you a

ultra-Remainers?

That was an

0:35:220:35:30

extraordinary interview. Please

leave campaign won the referendum

0:35:300:35:35

and now they seemed to be in a panic

and I suspect it is because people

0:35:350:35:41

are rejecting the extremist Brexit

that we have heard articulated and a

0:35:410:35:46

lack of confidence in the government

who deliver any form of Brexit at

0:35:460:35:49

all. I don't blame him for trying

but he is on a lost cause with a

0:35:490:35:55

hard Brexit.

What do you think?

There we go again with the language

0:35:550:36:02

of extremist exit. This isn't

helpful. It is the sort of language

0:36:020:36:08

that we heard when they said the old

are destroying the lives of young

0:36:080:36:16

people or are racist, it's a

disgrace. Is. We have an economy

0:36:160:36:21

that will move forward successfully

in the future.

And Samir question if

0:36:210:36:29

you will. If the economy is going to

do so well through exit, why is all

0:36:290:36:35

the evidence showing the opposite?

I've never been called an extremist

0:36:350:36:39

in my life, I find that quite

amusing.

Stephen?

During the

0:36:390:36:49

referendum campaign we had the sort

of economic reports suggesting from

0:36:490:36:53

even then the Chancellor that we

would lose 400,000 jobs and have an

0:36:530:36:59

emergency budget and this is the

same type of argument on economic

0:36:590:37:03

's. We have seen more people in

work.

We haven't left yet.

We seeded

0:37:030:37:13

in manufacturing and different

sectors. We haven't left and you

0:37:130:37:18

can't have your cake and eat it and

say that the economy is growing not

0:37:180:37:22

slowing.

We are going to have to end

it there. I can't remember how many

0:37:220:37:30

times people have said have your

cake and eat it. One day, we will.

0:37:300:37:35

And for more reporting

and analysis of Brexit,

0:37:350:37:37

check out the BBC News website,

that's bbc.co.uk/Brexit

0:37:370:37:42

Now, the German Chancellor

Angela Merkel looks close to finally

0:37:420:37:44

securing a new coalition government.

0:37:440:37:48

Germany had been stuck in political

limbo since September's inconclusive

0:37:480:37:50

general election saw the mainstream

parties lose support

0:37:500:37:55

to the far-right AfD -

they had tapped into anger over

0:37:550:37:58

Angela Merkel's refugee policy.

0:37:580:38:01

But after a failed attempt

to forge an alliance

0:38:010:38:04

with two smaller parties,

Mrs Merkel was forced to woo

0:38:040:38:07

back the reluctant SPD,

her junior partner for two

0:38:070:38:09

of her three terms.

0:38:090:38:11

We're joined now by our Berlin

Correspondent, Damien McGuinness.

0:38:110:38:14

Is it a done deal?

Not yet. It was

confirmed yesterday that there is a

0:38:140:38:25

proposed deal between those two

partners, the centre-left and

0:38:250:38:28

centre-right. Their party leaders

might want this but the centre-left

0:38:280:38:36

SPD have pledged to give their

members vote. That is 460,000 people

0:38:360:38:42

across Germany. It will be a postal

ballot. It won't be until the

0:38:420:38:47

beginning of March that we know

whether the members have accepted

0:38:470:38:51

it. It's possible that they might

reject it. It is looking pretty

0:38:510:38:57

50-50. Many SPD members and

centre-left voters feel they were

0:38:570:39:01

scarred badly by the last coalition

with the Conservatives under Angela

0:39:010:39:06

Merkel. That is why they would

rather go into opposition and

0:39:060:39:13

refined themselves. It is going to

be a nerve-racking few weeks for

0:39:130:39:17

German politics and Angela Merkel.

If this gets rejected in March, we

0:39:170:39:22

could be looking at starting all

over again. It's been almost five

0:39:220:39:27

months since the elections and it

could mean fresh elections which

0:39:270:39:31

would mean no government until

autumn. If they vote yes, we would

0:39:310:39:36

have a government in place by

Easter.

It looks as though there is

0:39:360:39:41

going to be a coalition government

confirmed until March at the

0:39:410:39:45

earliest. Looking at the

negotiations, what sort of price is

0:39:450:39:49

Angela Merkel paying to bring the

SPD, the Labour Party, into

0:39:490:39:54

coalition government?

This vote with

their members is hanging over her

0:39:540:40:01

head. That's why she had to give

away some pretty big ministries

0:40:010:40:07

including labour, the finance

ministry, which is unusual, she

0:40:070:40:10

would have wanted to hang onto that

ordinarily. These are tricky

0:40:100:40:16

powerful and key members and she has

been criticised by business leaders

0:40:160:40:21

and some grassroots supporters. On

many policies, she has given away

0:40:210:40:26

but if we look at the list overall

it is a lot of compromises. No big

0:40:260:40:34

grand vision. It could help Germans

in their daily lives, building more

0:40:340:40:41

homes, better infrastructure,

sorting out health care, more money

0:40:410:40:44

for these things. These are aspects

of the German economy, domestic

0:40:440:40:48

issues that have been issues over

the last few months and the

0:40:480:40:54

government has been called upon to

do more on them.

The government has

0:40:540:40:58

been diminished somewhat by this

wrangling and Angela Merkel has

0:40:580:41:04

emboldened her main opposition

party, the AfD.

You would think she

0:41:040:41:13

has been weakened but her ratings

are still quite high. Everyone

0:41:130:41:16

around her has been weakened even

more, certainly the leader of the

0:41:160:41:21

centre-left SPD party, Martin

shorts. His ratings have fallen to

0:41:210:41:27

the ground. Angela Merkel is popular

among mainstream Germans but she is

0:41:270:41:34

unpopular with a large minority who

disagree with her refugee policy.

0:41:340:41:38

What happens depends on this vote

with the social Democrats. That

0:41:380:41:42

would mean going back to scratch and

effectively no permanent government

0:41:420:41:47

for a year in Germany. That would be

seen as her fault because it would

0:41:470:41:51

have meant she had two goals at

forming a coalition and failed. It

0:41:510:41:55

would be hard to imagine she would

not be weakened by that. If this

0:41:550:42:00

government is pulled together there

is no reason to feel that she

0:42:000:42:07

couldn't lead that government. There

is a lot of movement behind the

0:42:070:42:12

scenes about who might replace her

because many people assume she

0:42:120:42:16

wouldn't run for another term. If

this government does happen, the

0:42:160:42:20

next four years would really see the

centre-left getting back its

0:42:200:42:26

identity and the centre-right

planning the post-Merkel era. It

0:42:260:42:28

would be and era of jostling and a

lot more argumentative than we have

0:42:280:42:35

seen in the past.

0:42:350:42:38

It's a little over 20 years

since the Royal Yacht,

0:42:380:42:40

Britannia, was decommissioned.

0:42:400:42:42

Designed to be a symbol

of national pride and flagship

0:42:420:42:45

for the Royal Family,

it was the 83rd Royal Yacht,

0:42:450:42:47

but was taken out of service

on grounds of cost and is now

0:42:470:42:50

a visitor attraction in Edinburgh.

0:42:500:42:52

But one group of Conservative MPs

wants to build a new Britannia,

0:42:520:42:55

and they want to set up

a national lottery to pay for it.

0:42:550:42:58

Here's the MP Craig Mackinley

with his soapbox.

0:42:580:43:03

I name this ship Tanya. --

Britannia.

0:43:030:43:13

As Britain leaves the European

Union, Britain will now need to

0:43:200:43:24

project itself on the world stage to

show it is back in business and for

0:43:240:43:28

that reason I believe now is the

time to commission a new Royal yacht

0:43:280:43:32

Britannia. Another at Unity to

showcase Britain and show of the

0:43:320:43:37

best of our history and shipbuilding

skills into the future. The Royal

0:43:370:43:43

yacht Britannia was decommissioned

in 1997. This was a spiteful mistake

0:43:430:43:49

by the Labour government. During 40

years of service she conducted 968

0:43:490:43:55

official visit and clocked up over 1

million Miles Agassi. In her last

0:43:550:43:59

deployment to the Far East,

commercial trade deals of almost £3

0:43:590:44:05

billion were signed on board. A new

Royal yacht would project Britain's

0:44:050:44:10

unique soft power and influence

around the globe. She would be at

0:44:100:44:14

the disposal of the government and

the Royal family to host

0:44:140:44:19

international events. To be

achievable we need to find the money

0:44:190:44:22

to build her and that is an

estimated £120 million. I am mindful

0:44:220:44:28

of the pressure on public finances

and I don't think taxpayers should

0:44:280:44:32

foot the bill. I'm proposing a new

national lottery to pay the costs.

0:44:320:44:38

The Royal yacht is now a familiar

sight to millions of Australian

0:44:380:44:41

people...

We will also need to

investigate comp entry sources of

0:44:410:44:48

funding from business leaders who

are supportive of the project.

0:44:480:44:52

Leading naval architects are willing

to volunteer their services for

0:44:520:44:57

free, similarly compote

manufacturers have told the team

0:44:570:45:00

they would like to be part of the

project in the new Royal yacht for

0:45:000:45:05

free. Britain remains the third

largest maritime power in the world

0:45:050:45:11

and we have unique connection and

history with the sea. The country

0:45:110:45:17

deserves a new floating Royal Palace

to project the best of British

0:45:170:45:23

business and show our humanitarian

work across the globe.

0:45:230:45:27

And Craig McKinley joins us now.

0:45:270:45:31

You say part of the money that it

would cost to the yacht would be

0:45:310:45:36

funded by national lottery, how

would that work?

I understand people

0:45:360:45:39

would be reluctant the public

finances to be used for this but

0:45:390:45:48

£120 million represents 1.5 hours of

national government expenditure but

0:45:480:45:54

I understand the sensitivities of it

so I think people could play a part

0:45:540:45:57

in this by there being a new

stand-alone national lottery. Also

0:45:570:46:01

with the Project board I want to put

together, be tapping up the best of

0:46:010:46:06

British businesses to have their

products in the yacht and showcase

0:46:060:46:11

accordingly.

So, sponsorship deals?

How much do you think you'd be able

0:46:110:46:15

to generate from that?

Early days

yet but there are straws in the wind

0:46:150:46:20

that potentially the engines could

be provided for free by certain UK

0:46:200:46:23

businesses. Naval architects have

been keen to do the spec for free. I

0:46:230:46:30

want to pull together a number of

strands to get this project on site.

0:46:300:46:35

I fully understand government

departments have been reluctant to

0:46:350:46:38

the spa because of the strain on

public finances and I understand

0:46:380:46:41

their sensibilities.

That's one

thing, as you say, but a financial

0:46:410:46:46

priority but is it a priority at

all? When you think and look at the

0:46:460:46:51

debate and discussions around

Brexit. Is this really the time to

0:46:510:46:56

be talking about commissioning a new

royal.

-- new Royal Yacht Squadron

0:46:560:47:03

it is exactly the time. We have

heard it again and again, we will be

0:47:030:47:08

out of the customs union and the

single market, Britain will be free

0:47:080:47:12

on the world stage to actually

showcase itself and get new trade

0:47:120:47:15

deals so the very small and narrow

cost of this will be paid back in

0:47:150:47:21

literally a heartbeat.

It has been a

persuasive argument to have a sort

0:47:210:47:25

of open Britain for business,

global, outward facing. Would this

0:47:250:47:30

help that sort of campaign on a

post-brexit-mac world?

I thought

0:47:300:47:34

that is what our embassies which the

government has been closing were

0:47:340:47:38

supposed to be doing. I wonder, if

you said to the public, we will have

0:47:380:47:45

a new national. Rick, you choose

what you want it to go towards.

0:47:450:47:48

Would they say a Royal Yacht

Squadron I'm not sure they would and

0:47:480:47:52

I'd also like to know can the

government supply the Navy personnel

0:47:520:47:56

and ships and boats that accompany a

Royal you're at when it goes

0:47:560:48:02

anywhere? One of the reasons it was

decommissioned in the first place,

0:48:020:48:05

and I haven't heard the Royal Family

complained their work has been

0:48:050:48:09

hampered by not having a Royal

you're, is because of the ongoing

0:48:090:48:12

cost. It was over 270 Navy personnel

with the running of the Royal yacht

0:48:120:48:18

so if you want to ask the public is

this what your priority is, go ahead

0:48:180:48:23

but I'm not sure it would be a Royal

yacht.

The PM was in China last week

0:48:230:48:28

on a Voyager aircraft and we

achieved £9 billion worth of trade

0:48:280:48:32

deals. The last outing of the Royal

yacht before it was decommissioned,

0:48:320:48:38

£3 billion worth of trade deal

signed on one trip.

We got more

0:48:380:48:44

without the Royal yacht.

Yes, but I

think there is more, this projection

0:48:440:48:51

Britain is a maritime nation, it is

a big shipbuilding nation. I

0:48:510:48:57

understand the ongoing annual

revenue cost of running this.

And

0:48:570:49:01

the Navy personnel.

Indeed, but it

could be a humanitarian offering, a

0:49:010:49:08

training ship. It would be a

different asset than it was in the

0:49:080:49:12

past but it would be a key

diplomatic tool to project Britain.

0:49:120:49:15

I think the post-Brexit world is

exactly the time for one.

Thank you.

0:49:150:49:20

While we've been on air, the Commons

leader Andrea Letson has been giving

0:49:200:49:25

a statement to MPs on the new rules

around sexual harassment and

0:49:250:49:30

bullying at Westminster, let's have

a listen.

0:49:300:49:32

We have proposed a set of policies

that will fundamentally change the

0:49:320:49:36

working culture in Parliament. Mr

Speaker, I'd like to turn now to

0:49:360:49:41

these proposals. They are as

follows. Firstly, Parliament will

0:49:410:49:46

agree a shared behaviour code. This

will apply to everyone on the

0:49:460:49:51

estate, or in gauged in

Parliamentary business, regardless

0:49:510:49:54

of location, and will underpin the

new policy. It will be consulted on

0:49:540:49:58

and will make clear the behaviour

expectations of everyone in the

0:49:580:50:03

Parliamentary community. The new

complaints and grievance procedure

0:50:030:50:08

will be independent from political

parties. Thirdly, it was

0:50:080:50:15

acknowledged sexual harassment and

sexual violence are different from

0:50:150:50:17

other forms of inappropriate

behaviour.

Joining me now is the

0:50:170:50:22

political reporter Lucy Fisher. Do

you welcome the announcement and the

0:50:220:50:27

recommendations from Andrea Letson?

Yes, I do and many people across

0:50:270:50:31

Westminster will be glad it has been

professionalised. Really, there

0:50:310:50:39

should be this in place anyway.

What

about the issue of anonymity, that

0:50:390:50:45

if a complaint is made against an

MP, for example, the MP will remain

0:50:450:50:52

anonymous until such time it is

resolved or if it is a serious

0:50:520:50:56

allegation?

In principle, I think it

is a good idea, allowing people the

0:50:560:51:01

chance to try to prove their

innocence and fight their corner

0:51:010:51:05

until any finding is made. The

Brault he is going to be more

0:51:050:51:08

difficult to police, if the accuser

wants to speak to the press or speak

0:51:080:51:13

out, I don't see how you're going to

be able to stop people but by laying

0:51:130:51:19

it down in the rules that they want

to keep things under wraps, that

0:51:190:51:23

might encourage people to kind of

keep their counsel until the finding

0:51:230:51:28

is made. MPs will be happy with that

because there has been some concern

0:51:280:51:32

in Westminster this new procedure

could be used to make fixations

0:51:320:51:36

claims against MPs by disgruntled

employees or rivals.

I'm going to

0:51:360:51:41

get a comment from Angela.

One of

the key reasons for it is an MP

0:51:410:51:45

might only have one member of staff

in the Palace of Westminster so by

0:51:450:51:52

identifying PMP, you're close to

identifying the member of staff

0:51:520:51:55

making the complaint. You want to

ensure if you identify the

0:51:550:51:59

complainant, that makes them more

reluctant to come forward so there

0:51:590:52:02

has been a lot of discussion about

how best to do this but you don't

0:52:020:52:05

want to shame the complainant for

coming forward for fear they may be

0:52:050:52:08

identified.

Do you think enough is

being done here to settle this issue

0:52:080:52:13

or at least moved to a place where

it will be settled and people will

0:52:130:52:18

feel protected at work and they have

somebody January independent talk

0:52:180:52:22

about any complaints?

I think so and

I think we can see from the fact it

0:52:220:52:26

has taken three months of wrangling

since the scandal first it

0:52:260:52:33

Westminster in November for them to

come to this agreement, the

0:52:330:52:38

Conservatives, labour, cross-party,

the staff associations, trade

0:52:380:52:41

unions, everyone is broadly happy

with the new procedures. It is

0:52:410:52:44

independent, there will be a new

sexual violence adviser in

0:52:440:52:47

Parliament and I think it seems

quite robust, this new system.

Lucy

0:52:470:52:51

Fisher, thank you.

0:52:510:52:53

The official language

used in Parliament is,

0:52:530:52:54

of course, English -

although you might also hear

0:52:540:52:56

a smattering of Norman French

in the House of Lords when bills

0:52:560:52:59

are given Royal Assent.

0:52:590:53:00

So yesterday was something

of a landmark, after Welsh

0:53:000:53:03

was spoken for the first time

during a Parliamentary debate.

0:53:030:53:05

Here's the Secretary of State

for Wales, Alun Cairns,

0:53:050:53:07

speaking at a meeting

of the Welsh Grand Committee.

0:53:070:53:10

And Alun Cairns joins

us now - croeso!

0:53:400:53:47

Is that correctly pronounced?

Spot

on. I've been most nervous about it

0:53:470:53:53

for the whole programme.

What is so

special about the Welsh language?

It

0:53:530:53:57

is part of one of the languages of

the United Kingdom, it is the pay

0:53:570:54:01

Parliament, demonstrating although

it is a ancient language, we have a

0:54:010:54:04

modern approach to reflect cultures

and traditions of the UK. The issue

0:54:040:54:09

came up last year, it was made to

the leader of the house. He sought

0:54:090:54:14

by advice and we agreed this would

be a good thing to do.

How did it

0:54:140:54:17

happen, how did it come about the

rule change meaning you can now

0:54:170:54:21

speak Welsh in the committee rooms

in Parliament?

First of all, it is

0:54:210:54:25

in the Welsh grand committee which

is made out of MPs, all Welsh MPs,

0:54:250:54:31

plus additional guest, the junior

minister in the Wales office, a

0:54:310:54:35

fluent Welsh speaker that happens to

represent a Yorkshire constituency,

0:54:350:54:41

and there is simultaneous

translation so we will look to the

0:54:410:54:43

European Parliament or the Welsh

assembly and see simultaneous

0:54:430:54:47

translation works effectively and

this was our way of using the same

0:54:470:54:52

technology.

Would you like to see

I've spoken in Parliament more

0:54:520:54:55

broadly?

I think yesterday was a

significant step, the first step, so

0:54:550:54:59

let's see the sort of use it had.

Many MPs used it, many MPs are

0:54:590:55:04

learning Welsh. If there is an

enthusiasm for it, it is a

0:55:040:55:07

conversation to have but let's see

how widely it is used because, of

0:55:070:55:11

course, there are consequences and

procedures in Parliament.

And costs.

0:55:110:55:17

The translation services, is this

the sort of thing you'd like to have

0:55:170:55:21

the taxpayers spend money on?

The

Prime Minister said when she stood

0:55:210:55:24

on the doors of Downing Street when

she was first appointed Prime

0:55:240:55:27

Minister by the Queen the precious

union. If we are going to represent

0:55:270:55:32

every part of the union, we need to

represent the languages of the

0:55:320:55:38

United Kingdom and this is a

positive step in order to

0:55:380:55:40

demonstrate the relevance of the UK

Parliament in every corner of the

0:55:400:55:43

country.

Can everyone on the grand

Welsh committee speak Welsh?

More

0:55:430:55:47

dead than I thought which is

interesting because there are lots

0:55:470:55:51

of MPs who might be a pitch I about

it but yesterday they had a bit of

0:55:510:55:54

confidence and they started using

it. It underlines Welsh is a

0:55:540:56:00

language of the UK.

Do you welcome

this?

It is welcomed by the Welsh

0:56:000:56:05

MPs and it is a matter for the Welsh

MPs but there's also always been the

0:56:050:56:10

proposal and you're allowed to give

evidence in another language or

0:56:100:56:14

British sign language in the

committee if it is easier for you to

0:56:140:56:18

get your message across. People are

called to give evidence to a

0:56:180:56:21

committee and you want to do them to

do so in a way they can make

0:56:210:56:25

themselves understood best so there

is that facility. A degree for

0:56:250:56:29

British sign language, we are very

inclusive.

It sometimes races and

0:56:290:56:35

issue for hand signals.

Paul Flynn,

a Welsh MP, was called to order by

0:56:350:56:40

the Speaker because the speaker

thought he was speaking Welsh

0:56:400:56:45

language but he was actually

speaking old English.

No one could

0:56:450:56:51

understand anyway!

Which

demonstrates that have been protest

0:56:510:56:55

by many MPs to see this change. And

we're happy to make the change.

Any

0:56:550:56:59

other languages that should be

permitted?

Let's look at each case

0:56:590:57:02

its merits. Welsh I think is an

official language of the UK or one

0:57:020:57:08

of the languages of the UK and on

that basis we reflect that.

All

0:57:080:57:12

right, thank you for coming in. Say

something else to us in Welsh.

0:57:120:57:16

SPEAKS WELSH. Lovely, I'll translate

that later.

0:57:160:57:20

Time now to find out

the answer to our quiz.

0:57:200:57:23

The question was

0:57:230:57:24

which TV show does Theresa May

want to appear in?

0:57:240:57:28

Strictly Come Dancing,

Great British Bake Off,

0:57:280:57:31

Blue Peter or Songs of Praise

So Angela what's the correct answer?

0:57:310:57:34

Let's have a look...

0:57:340:57:37

I've been worrying about this. If it

was me, I'd go for Striclty, and I

0:57:370:57:43

hope she has, but I suspect not.

You're right! Let's have a look.

She

0:57:430:57:49

would rather be on Bake Off or

strictly?

What a choice. Very

0:57:490:57:58

difficult in different ways. I enjoy

watching Strictly. I'm not sure I'd

0:57:580:58:02

do very well at either. Strictly has

some nice costumes.

So, do you think

0:58:020:58:08

Strictly?

Possibly, yes.

Can you

dance?

No. This might be an

0:58:080:58:19

impediment to being on Strictly.

No,

I think it is a requirement for

0:58:190:58:24

politicians to be on Strictly but

you can't dance.

But we can't all be

0:58:240:58:28

Ed Balls.

And he really did prove

you can do well even if you can't

0:58:280:58:32

dance. Are you surprised she went

for Strictly?

I think it's great.

0:58:320:58:36

Would you like to go on the

programme yourself? No, I'd go for

0:58:360:58:41

Coronation Street but then Strictly.

But you have thought about it? Just

0:58:410:58:46

tell viewers, Nicky Lilley talking

Theresa May on CBBC said catch up

0:58:460:58:50

with that if you can.

0:58:500:58:51

That's all for today.

0:58:510:58:52

Thanks to our guests.

0:58:520:58:56

We will be back tomorrow. Goodbye.

0:58:560:58:59

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