Browse content similar to 27/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
Forget the weather forecast -
it's a Brexit blizzard this week. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
The International Trade Secretary
Liam Fox will spell out why | 0:00:46 | 0:00:49 | |
he thinks Jeremy Corbyn was wrong
to bring the idea of a customs union | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
post Brexit back in from the cold. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:57 | |
As the EU gets ready to release
a legal document of what was agreed | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
between the EU and UK on the Irish
border in December, are the two | 0:01:00 | 0:01:06 | |
sides further apart than we thought? | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
Could changes to the benefit system
coming into force next month leave | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
thousands of low-income
families with what amounts | 0:01:11 | 0:01:13 | |
to a second mortgage? | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
We look at the proposals. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
And, as two vocal critics
of Jeremy Corbyn stand down | 0:01:18 | 0:01:21 | |
from key party positions,
what does the future hold | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
for the Labour Party? | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
All that in the next hour
and with us for the whole | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
of the programme today,
Mayor of Bristol Marvin Rees. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:44 | |
Welcome to the programme. Hello. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
First, as the Labour Party
cemented its position on staying | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
in a customs union with the EU
yesterday, International Trade | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
Secretary Liam Fox is set to hit
back in a speech in London shortly. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:55 | |
Norman Smith is there. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:59 | |
Norman, what are we expecting the
international trade secretary to | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
say? I think it is largely going to
be a restatement of arguments we are | 0:02:02 | 0:02:09 | |
familiar with, namely that by
leaving the customs union the UK | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
will have the ability to strike its
own free trade deals and look for | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
deals outside the EU, which is the
real growth area in terms of the | 0:02:16 | 0:02:21 | |
world economy. For many Brexiteers,
that is a golden opportunity of | 0:02:21 | 0:02:27 | |
Brexit, to take advantage of all of
these untapped markets. The trouble | 0:02:27 | 0:02:32 | |
is, into that Frey has stepped Sir
Martin Donnelly. Who is he? He is | 0:02:32 | 0:02:38 | |
the man who used to run Liam Fox's
department until March last year so | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
he was sitting next to Liam Fox,
coming up with all these plans, and | 0:02:42 | 0:02:48 | |
this he has taken something of all
Dr Fox's argument, saying that | 0:02:48 | 0:02:55 | |
leaving the customs union and single
market is such a bad idea, would be | 0:02:55 | 0:02:59 | |
so damaging, that a future UK
Government is probably going to have | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
to ask to rejoin the single market
and the customs union because, he | 0:03:03 | 0:03:08 | |
says, it would place a British
companies at a competitive | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
disadvantage with the rest of the
EU. He suggests it would deter | 0:03:11 | 0:03:16 | |
inward investment, that British
producers would be less competitive | 0:03:16 | 0:03:22 | |
because they would not have to abide
by the rigours of the internal | 0:03:22 | 0:03:26 | |
market and he says the UK would go
from being one of the most open | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
economies in the world to being one
of the most bureaucratic, and he | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
lists all the different bits of
regulation and paperwork British | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
companies will have to comply with
to export to the EU - country of | 0:03:36 | 0:03:42 | |
origin regulations, hygiene
regulations, security regulations, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
VAT payments and, crucially, he says
that if we hope we will be able to | 0:03:45 | 0:03:51 | |
secure more lucrative deals outside
the EU than through the EU, we are | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
kidding ourselves. | 0:03:55 | 0:04:01 | |
If you look at where we are now,
with fair and equal access | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
to the very large, rich EU market,
which is nearly half | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
of our service and goods exports,
plus preferential access to other | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
markets, which gets us up
to about three fifths of our trade, | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
if you are going to give that up
for the promise of some bilateral | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
deals with markets that are much
less important to us, | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
well, it's like giving up a three
course meal for a packet of crisps. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
It's just not equivalent. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:24 | |
And we have to recognise
that reality before | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
we take this decision. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:34 | |
And as if that wasn't good enough,
he also says the British | 0:04:34 | 0:04:39 | |
government's objective of
negotiating near frictionless trade | 0:04:39 | 0:04:43 | |
with the EU outside the single
market doesn't need a crack | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
negotiating team, he says, it needs
a fairy godmother! But is fairly | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
crushing stuff, isn't it, for Liam
Fox personally, and the Government? | 0:04:51 | 0:04:56 | |
How will he take that on, the
international trade secretary, do | 0:04:56 | 0:05:00 | |
you think? It is a fundamental
disagreement. We have already heard | 0:05:00 | 0:05:05 | |
a little bit from Boris Johnson when
he was asked about this, saying he | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
profoundly disagrees with the
analysis. They believe that the real | 0:05:08 | 0:05:13 | |
golden goose of Brexit are these
markets outside the EU, which we | 0:05:13 | 0:05:19 | |
have failed to tap into at the
moment. But let's be honest, the | 0:05:19 | 0:05:24 | |
timing of the speech could hardly be
worse because we have Liam Fox | 0:05:24 | 0:05:28 | |
making one of the keynote Brexit
speeches, the road to Brexit, we | 0:05:28 | 0:05:33 | |
have heard from Boris Johnson, David
Davis and a little bit from Mrs May, | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
we will hear more at the end of the
week. This was Liam Fox's moment and | 0:05:37 | 0:05:42 | |
along comes as former top civil
servant trying to debunk everything | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
he's got to say and why this
matters, I think, is because this | 0:05:45 | 0:05:50 | |
follows very obviously from Jeremy
Corbyn positioning Labour on the | 0:05:50 | 0:05:54 | |
side of the customs union. We know
the CBI and the IoD even seem | 0:05:54 | 0:05:59 | |
sympathetic to the customs union and
added on top of that we have Liam | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
Fox's former top man saying you
would be daft to leave the customs | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
union and the single market. Thank
you, we will let you go and listen | 0:06:06 | 0:06:11 | |
to the speech. Marvin, Bristol voted
nearly 62 % to remain. Following on | 0:06:11 | 0:06:17 | |
the back of Jeremy Corbyn confirming
Labour's position of wanting a | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
customs union with the EU, would you
like to see him go further and say | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
Britain should remain in the single
market as well? I think this is the | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
best we can do while not being part
of the EU so I welcome it absolutely | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
but it lives in our city's interest
to remain as close as we can. 88 the | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
centre of our exports from Bristol
go to our EU partners and I have | 0:06:36 | 0:06:41 | |
heard businesses in the city already
talked about losing orders as firms | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
on the continent begin to make
decisions that disadvantage | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
Bristol-based business is. What we
need at a local level is cities all | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
around this country to have some
certainty. One of the good things we | 0:06:51 | 0:06:56 | |
have got from Jeremy's speech is a
good idea of what is going to happen | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
and what we are not getting from
Government is any clarity about what | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
is on the table. Why not push it
further? Many Labour MPs want to see | 0:07:03 | 0:07:09 | |
Labour say that Britain would remain
part of the single market. We need | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
to respect the vote, I respect the
national referendum result but in my | 0:07:13 | 0:07:18 | |
own city as an elected leader, I
want to push to keep the city | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
connected to the European market. I
support what Jeremy is doing and we | 0:07:22 | 0:07:27 | |
must remain as close as we can to
protect the interests of our | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
businesses and all the employment
that comes with it. This argument | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
about sovereignty is one that I get
incredibly frustrated with. If we | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
impoverish people we are not more
sovereign. What about Labour leaders | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
who said they wanted to take back
control? I don't agree. The whole | 0:07:43 | 0:07:47 | |
argument about taking back control
is a false argument. If we | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
impoverish people they are not more
sovereign. Let's leave it there. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:57 | |
Post Brexit, one of Winston
Churchill's favourite tipples | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
is going to be sold in pint-sized
bottles - a size that Churchill | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
considered to be just perfect. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:03 | |
But which drink is it? | 0:08:03 | 0:08:04 | |
Is it... | 0:08:04 | 0:08:05 | |
A - a dry martini? | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
B - champagne? | 0:08:07 | 0:08:08 | |
C - brandy? | 0:08:08 | 0:08:09 | |
Or D - claret? | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
They look very inviting! | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
At the end of the show, Marvin
will give us the correct answer. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
I am not an expert! | 0:08:19 | 0:08:26 | |
Tomorrow, the European Commission
will agree a draft legal text that | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
aims to translate December's phase
one agreement in the Brexit | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
negotiations into a
binding legal document. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
That draft will then be looked over
by the individual member states | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
before it's used as the basis
for further negotiations | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
with the UK. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:39 | |
You'll recall sufficient progress
was reached in December | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
on three main issues -
namely citizens' rights, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
the divorce bill and maintaining
an open Irish border after Brexit. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:50 | |
But with many on all sides
claiming the deal fudged | 0:08:50 | 0:08:52 | |
the question of the border,
it looks set to return | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
to centre stage on Wednesday. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
In December, the UK and EU
agreed on three options | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
to ensure there wouldn't be a "hard
border" in Ireland... | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
A new comprehensive free trade
agreement that would remove the need | 0:09:04 | 0:09:07 | |
for any real change at the border... | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
Or the UK could propose
specific technical solutions | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
to mitigate the need
for physical infrastructure. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
Or, in the absence of other agreed
solutions, the UK would maintain | 0:09:17 | 0:09:22 | |
full alignment with EU regulations
on both sides of the border that | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
support North-South co-operation
and the all-Ireland economy. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
The DUP were concerned to ensure
there was no economic border down | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
the Irish Sea in such a scenario. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
So a paragraph was inserted
asserting there'd be no | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
regulatory barriers to trade
between Northern Ireland | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
and Great Britain. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
That has led to conflicting
interpretations - with some | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
in the EU assuming that the logic
dictates the UK as a whole | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
would have to remain tightly bound
to EU rules and institutions - | 0:09:52 | 0:09:57 | |
institutions the UK has repeatedly
insisted it will leave after Brexit. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:03 | |
Some in the UK believe alignment can
mean reaching the same standards | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
while diverging in the exact
form of regulations | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
and that full alignment need only be
put in place for very specific areas | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
of North-South co-operation. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:18 | |
Well, earlier, Foreign
Secretary Boris Johnson | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
was on the Today programme -
and he was asked how the UK's plans | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
for the border would work. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
We think that we can have very
efficient facilitation systems | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
to make sure there's no need
for a hard border, excessive | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
checks at the frontier
between Northern Ireland | 0:10:33 | 0:10:37 | |
and the Republic and, you know,
for people listening... | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
You think we can have, though... | 0:10:40 | 0:10:42 | |
There's no border... | 0:10:42 | 0:10:43 | |
It's not good enough
to think you can have them, | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
because the other side
don't believe you. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:47 | |
There's no border between Islington
or Camden and Westminster. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
There's no border between Camden
and Westminster but when I was Mayor | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
of London, we anaesthetically
and invisibly took of millions | 0:10:54 | 0:10:59 | |
of pounds from the accounts
of people travelling between those | 0:10:59 | 0:11:03 | |
two boroughs without any need
for border checks whatever. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:08 | |
There are all sorts of things... | 0:11:08 | 0:11:09 | |
Come on, you can't compare two
boroughs of London with the kinds | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
of difference in the arrangements
that would be in place after Brexit | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
between the UK and the EU. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
No, I think it's a very
relevant comparison. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
Boris Johnson there. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
Well, we can speak now
about the prospects for customs | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
arrangements after Brexit
to Allie Renison - she's the head | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
of Europe and trade policy
at the Institute of Directors. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
Let's pick-up on Boris Johnson's
assertion that there is a comparison | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
of boarding a hard border in
Northern Ireland to those managing | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
the boundary between two London
local authorities. Do you agree? I | 0:11:40 | 0:11:45 | |
think what the Foreign Secretary may
have been trying to do was to make | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
an argument to say that you can use
technology as far as is possible to | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
come up with some solutions. I'm not
sure the example was totally | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
comparable if I'm on us because you
are talking about putting a frontier | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
border between the UK and the rest
of the EU going forward, so I think | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
the scale is slightly different. Is
a customs union, in the way Jeremy | 0:12:03 | 0:12:09 | |
Corbyn, the Labour leader, has
outlined, sufficient to solve the | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
problem of the border after Brexit?
No, it is a very important these but | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
is by no means what would be
necessary to guarantee frictionless | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
trade, simply because it deals with
the duty element of what happens | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
when goods cross borders, which is
the traditional way customs border | 0:12:23 | 0:12:27 | |
is manifest themselves but it
doesn't deal with the regulatory | 0:12:27 | 0:12:31 | |
architecture. These days a lot of
checks pertain not only to whether | 0:12:31 | 0:12:35 | |
you are paying the correct amount of
duty when a good crosses the border | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
but whether you are in full
compliance with the rules of the | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
marketed as crossing into. So in
your mind it doesn't go far enough | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
to do with those issues. The joint
report talks specifically about | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
specific rules support North/ South
cooperation, the protection of the | 0:12:49 | 0:12:54 | |
Good Friday Agreement, the all
Ireland economy. Is the Good Friday | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
Agreement what actually counts under
those headings? The question is also | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
at what point that is going to be
put into effect because effectively, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
that is an insurance policy option,
ie in the absence of a great | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
solutions, which most people would
read as if there is no agreement, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
but if it gets to that point to
understand what those areas of | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
alignment would have to be, you have
to spell them out and I think the | 0:13:17 | 0:13:22 | |
EU's point and the Republic of
Ireland thinks you need to do that | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
sooner rather than later, to know
what they actually are. When people | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
talk about Turkey having a customs
union with the EU, how would that be | 0:13:29 | 0:13:34 | |
used as a model for the UK? I think
this is along the lines of what the | 0:13:34 | 0:13:39 | |
IoD were proposing, working with the
government's ostensible redlines. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
The aim is to show you can be in a
customs union with the EU and | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
negotiate meaningful trade
agreements so I think, for example, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
if you look at the US, there would
be one constraint on the UK's | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
ability to completely negotiate if
it related to what the areas that | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
you shared an external tariff on, so
industrial goods, that would be | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
absolutely essential to avoid
introducing costly rules of origin | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
to apply between the EU and the UK
but it means you would have | 0:14:05 | 0:14:12 | |
prevented to negotiate on. Van La
Parra metres of the Prime Minister's | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
like as to how speech and ongoing
negotiations, what you think is the | 0:14:15 | 0:14:20 | |
most likely option? -- within the
parameters. I think it depends on | 0:14:20 | 0:14:25 | |
what the UK puts forward. If you
were looking at this through the | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
prism of convention, a customs
border everywhere else, even between | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
Norway and Sweden, where it is
pretty frictionless but there is | 0:14:32 | 0:14:36 | |
physical infrastructure on that land
border because they don't charge the | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
same duties on goods coming in... I
think it would be for the UK to put | 0:14:40 | 0:14:45 | |
its ideas on the table and if the EU
decides it is not sufficient and it | 0:14:45 | 0:14:49 | |
should be coming up with
counterproposals, I think the onus | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
is on the UK to put forward its
proposals but the EU can't be a | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
silent player. It has to engage on
what those proposals are. Allie | 0:14:56 | 0:15:00 | |
Renison, thank you very much. | 0:15:00 | 0:15:04 | |
We can speak now to
Mairead McGuinness, | 0:15:04 | 0:15:05 | |
Vice President of the European
Parliament and Irish MEP | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
for the Fine Gael party
in Brussels and Sammy Wilson, | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
an MP for the Democratic
Unionist Party - who's | 0:15:10 | 0:15:12 | |
here with me in the studio. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
Welcome to both of you. Do you
expect tomorrow that the draft legal | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
text will commit the UK to
maintaining full alignment with EU | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
regulations in the absence of other
solutions? Yes, we do expect this | 0:15:23 | 0:15:29 | |
text to be published tomorrow and I
think that what we expect to see is | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
a translation of the agreement
pre-Christmas into legal text, | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
including that fallback position.
You've outlined in the programme the | 0:15:37 | 0:15:40 | |
three options. Clearly the first
option is the best, that we reach a | 0:15:40 | 0:15:44 | |
situation where this isn't a
problem. In the absence of that, | 0:15:44 | 0:15:48 | |
tomorrow I would expect that in the
legal text there is a recognition of | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
that third option, that if we fail
on both one and two that we have a | 0:15:52 | 0:15:59 | |
fallback position which secures our
concerns around the border on the | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
island of Ireland which shares our
concerns with the UK and in | 0:16:03 | 0:16:08 | |
particular my constituents that I
south of the border. Yes, tomorrow | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
I'll be looking at this text very
clearly and this morning I come from | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
a meeting with the parliament's
negotiator where they have clearly | 0:16:14 | 0:16:20 | |
outlined the protocol on eyelid is
key. In the future they can be no | 0:16:20 | 0:16:27 | |
diversions in norms, regulations and
standards between Northern Ireland | 0:16:27 | 0:16:30 | |
and the Republic of Ireland. That is
if you like the third option if all | 0:16:30 | 0:16:34 | |
else fails. I think people should
read it in that context rather than | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
as some members of the committee
reading it as almost a row | 0:16:38 | 0:16:43 | |
immediately. We need to be very
careful of how we interpret the text | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
tomorrow. By full alignment, as you
have just explained, it is yours and | 0:16:47 | 0:16:51 | |
the EU's understanding that would be
entirely adopting or replicating | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
every single EU regulation. Anything
that would avoid us having a | 0:16:56 | 0:17:03 | |
semblance of a border, a hard
border, any change to the | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
relationships to what happens on the
island of Ireland as the third and | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
final, if you like, offer in terms
of what should be done. But the | 0:17:12 | 0:17:16 | |
first and second are also on the
table and therefore from my | 0:17:16 | 0:17:21 | |
perspective, and I spoke this
morning in committee, I welcome a | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
repeat of the commitment to the
Irish issue. It was front and centre | 0:17:24 | 0:17:29 | |
of the discussions before Christmas.
It was one of the three priorities | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
and indeed we wondered whether we
would actually get to reaching | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
sufficient progress. We got working
with some difficulty and I know | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
you've got a DUP colleague and I'm
looking forward to his contribution. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:45 | |
They have particular concerns which
were taken on board and have to be | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
dealt with by the UK within the UK.
It beholds both sides of these | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
negotiations this week to move
forward in a positive framework. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
Sammy Wilson, if the legal agreement
in the way Mairead has just | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
outlined, does commit the UK to
effectively remaining in the EU's | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
institutions as a backdrop Dunn
backstop, should the UK signed? | 0:18:05 | 0:18:12 | |
First of all, there's a gap in what
Mairead has outlined. The agreement | 0:18:12 | 0:18:16 | |
didn't just talk about the
relationship between Northern | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
Ireland and the Irish Republic. The
agreement, and it was signed by the | 0:18:19 | 0:18:24 | |
EU, also talked about the
unbreakable relationship between | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
Northern Ireland and the rest of the
United Kingdom. We would expect to | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
see that outlined in the legal
agreement, as well. They cannot pick | 0:18:31 | 0:18:37 | |
and choose and simply say where only
interested in the Northern Ireland, | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
Irish Republic relationship. They
have signed up to ensuring there | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
will be no change in the
constitutional position of Northern | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
Ireland. They've signed up to the
Belfast agreement commitments, that | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
bill be no change without the
consent of the people of Northern | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
Ireland, so therefore the legal
agreement must also reflect that | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
aspect of the December agreement. Do
you accept that, Mairead? I think | 0:19:00 | 0:19:05 | |
that that issue and this article,
paragraph 50, I've spoken about | 0:19:05 | 0:19:10 | |
paragraph 40 nine. Paragraph 50 was
an internal discussion to meet the | 0:19:10 | 0:19:15 | |
concerns of the DUP, who are of
course supporting the Conservative | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
government. Should it be part of
this legal text? Al just finished my | 0:19:19 | 0:19:24 | |
point if I may. As I see it, that is
something the UK needs to bear in | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
mind as to be able to deliver on. I
would rather go back to this | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
starting point here. We should in
this New Year and with time running | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
out focus on the best option, which
is option one. I would remind both | 0:19:36 | 0:19:42 | |
Sammy and your listeners, this
morning they were saying we wanted a | 0:19:42 | 0:19:48 | |
positive relationship with the UK.
That's in the interest not just of | 0:19:48 | 0:19:52 | |
politics but of people. And my
country on both sides of the border. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
We are at this stage fighting before
we see the text and that is... Is | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
that what you're doing? I'm not...
Don't forget, it was the EU who | 0:20:03 | 0:20:11 | |
insisted that this had to be an
agreement. The December agreement | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
was an agreement that had to be
signed up by all parties. They has | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
to be happy with the text. We had to
be happy with the text. The text | 0:20:19 | 0:20:24 | |
includes paragraph 50. Paragraph 50
makes it very clear that there can | 0:20:24 | 0:20:30 | |
be no separation of Northern Ireland
from the rest of the UK. It is an | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
act of bad faith... It's an act of
bad faith is already the EU are | 0:20:35 | 0:20:42 | |
saying, by the way, this agreement
have 50 paragraphs but as far as the | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
50th is concerned, nothing to do
with us. They shouldn't have signed | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
up to it if that were the case. Is
it your position, though... Kangol, | 0:20:50 | 0:20:56 | |
Mairead I'll come back to you. Is it
your position that you want Northern | 0:20:56 | 0:21:01 | |
Ireland to have a veto over the
capacity of Great Britain to | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
diverged? It's not. The UK as a
whole voted to leave the EU. And the | 0:21:04 | 0:21:10 | |
United Kingdom as a whole should
leave the EU on the same basis. | 0:21:10 | 0:21:16 | |
That's not an Northern Ireland veto.
That is a UK decision. All we are | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
asking is that the result of the
referendum be respected. The result | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
of the agreement in December be
respected, and the EU and certainly | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
the Irish can't have the best of
both worlds, where they say, we have | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
to have an agreement in December and
by the way, when it comes to | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
February, some of those we want to
throw out the window. Isn't it true | 0:21:39 | 0:21:43 | |
that this is at the door of view of
the British government? The majority | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
of people in Northern Ireland voted
to remain, only your party advocated | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
leaving. Why is it up to the Irish
or the EU to come up with a | 0:21:50 | 0:21:57 | |
solution? Why haven't you come up
with a solution to not having a hard | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
border? We have. All those solutions
to date, the EU and the Irish have | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
not even been prepared to look at in
August of last year David Davis gave | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
a very detailed paper as to how you
can have a virtual border between | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
Northern Ireland and the Irish
Republic. The EU Parliament | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
commissioned a report from the
former director of the WTO, who also | 0:22:17 | 0:22:23 | |
said it was possible to have a
virtual border between Northern | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
Ireland and the Irish Republic. None
of those options are even being | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
considered. By the Irish governorate
or the argument all along has been | 0:22:31 | 0:22:40 | |
until we talk about the future trade
relationship, we cannot come up with | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
solutions technical or otherwise.
You saying the EU has already | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
decided that a nonstarter and some
of the solutions Sammy has spoken | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
about in terms of virtual border?
Can I just reissue at Sammy Wilson | 0:22:51 | 0:22:56 | |
of one thing? I have no desire to
see borders anywhere. The whole | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
reason of my being in politics as
being part of the EU is not to have | 0:23:00 | 0:23:04 | |
borders between people or countries,
but clearly now the UK is leaving, | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
and I think you were right to
reference the fact that, in Northern | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
Ireland, the majority voted to
remain and to some extent the DUP | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
vetoed that decision, I accept that
is the situation. We don't want | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
borders, either. What we have are
three possible solutions to a very | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
serious problem that I'm sure Sammy
Wilson shares my concerns about. We | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
need to build relationships on the
island of Ireland. They are | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
difficult at the moment and I agree
that any going backward, any | 0:23:33 | 0:23:37 | |
dividing of people psychologically
and physically, is not healthy for | 0:23:37 | 0:23:39 | |
the island of Ireland and the peace
process. Begin with a positive | 0:23:39 | 0:23:45 | |
outlook with option one and see that
in the text tomorrow, what we're | 0:23:45 | 0:23:50 | |
looking at is, in the withdrawal
agreement, if all else fails, we | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
have to have a safeguard and I think
that's in all our interests because | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
we don't want to be in October of
this year looking at something which | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
is a disaster. Prepare well and
therefore we would fail. But you | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
haven't answered my question about
the solution that has been put | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
forward about a virtual border, a
technical solution to keep the | 0:24:07 | 0:24:12 | |
border as soft as possible. Do you
accept that those suggestions should | 0:24:12 | 0:24:15 | |
be looked into? | 0:24:15 | 0:24:21 | |
be looked into? What I accept is,
and I've looked at that report, been | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
part of the discussion on them, what
I am arguing for, it is impossible | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
given the red lines of the UK, is
that the situation today, which is | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
the best option, should prevail.
Staying in the single market and | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
Customs union. Anything after that
causes me anxiety and concern. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
That's why we have the fallback
option. When you say, should we | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
consider these other options? Our
choice, our best consideration, | 0:24:44 | 0:24:50 | |
should be given to have this strong
relationship. Good trading | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
partnership with the UK. Not to look
at technical solutions because | 0:24:53 | 0:25:01 | |
technical solutions do not get us
over relationships and the political | 0:25:01 | 0:25:05 | |
issues, which clearly still prevail
when it comes to the island of | 0:25:05 | 0:25:10 | |
Ireland but I think we should work
together. That answer rests the nub | 0:25:10 | 0:25:16 | |
of the problem. That the Irish
insist and believe that we should | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
stay within the single market and
Customs union, even though the | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
people of the UK voted to leave. The
EU negotiators believe that, as | 0:25:24 | 0:25:29 | |
well, and our worry is best. That
the legal text which will be | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
produced tomorrow or Thursday, from
the leaks we have had so far, only | 0:25:33 | 0:25:39 | |
looks in detail at one option which
is the fallback option which would | 0:25:39 | 0:25:45 | |
require full regulatory alignment.
Because there is no interest in | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
negotiating on the terms that the
people of the UK have decided, | 0:25:49 | 0:25:53 | |
namely that we leave the EU and we
have a clean break with the EU. And | 0:25:53 | 0:25:57 | |
if that's the case, the legal text
will not only be unacceptable to the | 0:25:57 | 0:26:03 | |
DUP, I suspect it will be
unacceptable to the British | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
government. Mairead, biweekly
heading towards Brickman ship? The | 0:26:05 | 0:26:11 | |
EU refuses to any technical
solutions and a hard border goes up | 0:26:11 | 0:26:17 | |
by default? As far as I'm concerned,
as long as I'm in politics, a hard | 0:26:17 | 0:26:23 | |
border will not go up on the island
of Ireland. Let me say to Sammy | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
Wilson and am trying to be
conciliatory, I don't think we | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
really should be fighting over this.
Remember the farmers who voted to | 0:26:30 | 0:26:35 | |
leave, the DUP supporters who voted
to leave the EU. I accept their | 0:26:35 | 0:26:39 | |
vote, not the logic of it. They want
their lands to be processed in the | 0:26:39 | 0:26:45 | |
south of Ireland and sold to France.
They watched that to continue when | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
the UK leads the EU. If we have this
so-called managed divergences and in | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
fact ambitious managed divergences
have had from the UK side, how can | 0:26:53 | 0:26:58 | |
that happen? Let's get real, let's
get practical, let's get back to | 0:26:58 | 0:27:03 | |
grassroots. Solve this problem in
the interests of our people and | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
perhaps move the big politics to one
side. We're running out of time, | 0:27:06 | 0:27:13 | |
Mairead .pl other bases of
negotiation rather than | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
confrontation. Sammy Wilson, given
the risks to the economy of Ireland, | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
because it would be devastating on
the island if there isn't a deal | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
that is done, is it your position
that the Irish government are acting | 0:27:23 | 0:27:27 | |
purely in political our faith? Not
only political about-face, but there | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
are acting in a way which must be
incomprehensible to many of the | 0:27:32 | 0:27:37 | |
people who operate businesses in the
Irish Republic because this fixation | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
with the border between Northern
Ireland and the Irish Republic hides | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
the main issue, and that is that the
vast bulk of the Irish market is not | 0:27:43 | 0:27:51 | |
in Northern Ireland. They sell six
times more to the rest of the UK and | 0:27:51 | 0:27:56 | |
therefore concentrating on the
Northern Ireland Irish border and | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
wanting regulatory alignment between
those two parts of the island, are | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
they really saying they're prepared
to sacrifice the regulatory | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
alignment which we require to enable
them to sell their goods in Great | 0:28:09 | 0:28:14 | |
Britain but you might because if
they do I think that will be the | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
real devastation for the businesses.
Mairead, very briefly, Boris Johnson | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
says it's as easy as dealing with
the boundary between two London | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
Boris. You could deal with it in the
way we have a congestion charge in | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
the capital. Do you agree? Well,
first of all, can I just say, there | 0:28:27 | 0:28:33 | |
is no bad faith on behalf of myself
as an Irish politician or my | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
government. I would reject that
absolutely. When it comes to Boris | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
Johnson's comments which I read and
heard with interest, I think Sammy | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
Wilson would be the first to say
that the UK is a different country | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
than the Republic of Ireland. We are
talking about two sovereign, UK and | 0:28:47 | 0:28:52 | |
the Republic of Ireland. The
comparison doesn't quite fit. It | 0:28:52 | 0:28:57 | |
does it, Mairead. If you look at it
with a different tax regime, VAT, | 0:28:57 | 0:29:03 | |
excise duty is different. Yet
billions of pounds worth of goods | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
across that border, tax is paid, is
not a lorry is stopped to check the | 0:29:06 | 0:29:12 | |
goods because through virtual
methods, through IT, through | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
electronic invoicing, those taxes
are collected by both the Irish | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
government and the British
government. If it can work on that | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
basis it can work after we leave the
EU. We have to leave it there. Thank | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
you both very much. Mairead, sorry,
that's the end of the interview! | 0:29:27 | 0:29:32 | |
Now, our guest of the day
Marvin Rees was the first directly | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
elected black Mayor in the UK
and he's the subject of a new film, | 0:29:35 | 0:29:39 | |
a biopic following his two election
campaigns in Bristol. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
But, outside the city, the Mayor
isn't particularly well known. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
Here at the Daily Politics we pride
ourselves on delivering public | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
service broadcasting at its finest -
so in that tradition, Paul Barltrop, | 0:29:46 | 0:29:49 | |
BBC West Political Editor has
the lowdown on Marvin the man. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
May 2016 and Bristol have
elected a new mayor. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
It was the start of a political
career but the culmination | 0:29:56 | 0:30:00 | |
of a long personal journey. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
His father was Jamaican-born,
but Marvin Rees was brought up | 0:30:03 | 0:30:06 | |
by his mother Janet. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:07 | |
The pictures show an earnest,
determined child. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
It was always Lego and Meccano
and there was always a structure | 0:30:10 | 0:30:12 | |
and a plan to everything. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
You couldn't just be
sort of, you know, kids | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
and just see what happened -
Marvin would always want to make | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
the model on the front of the box. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:26 | |
His early years were spent
here in a flat on the Long Cross | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
estate in the north of the city. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:30 | |
It wasn't easy - there was plenty
of racism in 1970s Bristol. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
As a mixed-race child
of a single mother, he had | 0:30:33 | 0:30:36 | |
to look out for himself
but, encouraged by her, | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
he showed himself to be a striver
whether at school or at sport. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
In his teens he joined a youth club
and quickly made an impression. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
Straightaway, he was one
of those that was polite, | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
smiling and so on. | 0:30:49 | 0:30:53 | |
And what was interesting,
then he didn't come for a couple | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
of evenings and his mum
then turned up with him, | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
catching hold of him by the ear
and saying, "Marvin's coming | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
to club every night." | 0:31:01 | 0:31:05 | |
He especially took to boxing
and ended up taking | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
on a future world champion. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:08 | |
Depending on how that fight went
that night could have changed | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
everything for Marvin. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:14 | |
He wouldn't have been a mayor,
he could well have been | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
a world champion boxer! | 0:31:17 | 0:31:18 | |
But as it happened, it
went the three rounds, | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
both stood there but Marvin took
a few bangs and ended up having | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
both his retinas detached! | 0:31:24 | 0:31:25 | |
So that was Marvin's career. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:27 | |
It started here as a young man
and he trained well to do | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
it, he became good. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:31 | |
His defence should have been better
that day and perhaps | 0:31:31 | 0:31:33 | |
then he'd have been OK,
but the reality is his boxing | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
career ended here, too! | 0:31:36 | 0:31:37 | |
After university, he worked
in broadcasting and, as a reporter, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:39 | |
often showed his desire to make
the world a better place. | 0:31:39 | 0:31:42 | |
Welcome to Stokes Croft
here in Bristol - we're right | 0:31:42 | 0:31:45 | |
in the heart of the city. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
Wanting to go further,
he joined a scheme to | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
encourage people from ethnic
minorities into politics. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:52 | |
I'm here because I'm interested
in the way the country's run. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
Since I was young, I had big
questions going around in my head - | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
why are some people so rich
while others are so poor? | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
He was snapped up by Labour and,
though a political novice, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
he soon caught the eye
of council veterans. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
In a sense, not being around
Labour was a good thing. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
He brought new ideas
and he certainly wasn't | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
defending the status quo. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
He wasn't New Labour,
he wasn't sort of representing any | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
sort of faction of the party,
so I thought he was just | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
a breath of fresh air,
to be honest with you. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
Good morning, everybody. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:23 | |
His path to power wasn't easy - | 0:32:23 | 0:32:25 | |
he lost the first mayoral election. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:28 | |
His second campaign
was against a backdrop | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
of Labour's internal strife. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
The day he won, Jeremy Corbyn rushed
to Bristol to congratulate him. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
In the ensuing party leadership
contest, the new mayor | 0:32:37 | 0:32:39 | |
refused to take sides. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:42 | |
Well, there was massive tensions
and, behind the scenes, | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
there was lots of conversations
about, you know, what was | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
the right thing to do? | 0:32:48 | 0:32:49 | |
Was it to support the
leader, was it not to? | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
But ultimately there was a decision
to be made and I think | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
he made the right one! | 0:32:55 | 0:32:56 | |
It's harder to avoid
conflict in the chamber. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
Last week, one protester let off
a flare as his Labour councillors | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
voted through a budget cutting
spending by millions. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
Seeing a way to change his city
for the better isn't proving easy. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:13 | |
As you saw at the end of the film,
being mayor of Bristol has its tough | 0:33:16 | 0:33:21 | |
times, too, with local funding
issues a key issue. Joining us is | 0:33:21 | 0:33:26 | |
Chloe Westley from the TaxPayers'
Alliance. Marvin, protests, cutting | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
spending in Bristol, but you could
put up council tax by 6%. Why don't | 0:33:32 | 0:33:36 | |
you? In our consultation on the
budget we spoke to the city about 5% | 0:33:36 | 0:33:41 | |
and having given our word on that
that's what we stuck to but we have | 0:33:41 | 0:33:46 | |
made the savings we've had to make
but we have taken many of those | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
in-house and I'll do my level best
to protect front line services. The | 0:33:49 | 0:33:55 | |
problem is, Chloe Westley, central
Government funding has been cut to | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
local government to the tune of 77 %
according to the Local Government | 0:33:59 | 0:34:04 | |
Association so how on earth can
councils cope with providing | 0:34:04 | 0:34:08 | |
front-line services? But had an
impact but we have seen a trend over | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
the last 20 years where council tax
has gone up steadily above inflation | 0:34:11 | 0:34:15 | |
and it has gone up in years where
government funding has increased so | 0:34:15 | 0:34:20 | |
it is nothing new, this increase in
council tax. But I have a lot of | 0:34:20 | 0:34:24 | |
sympathy with you, Marvin, and with
councils, because in order to reduce | 0:34:24 | 0:34:29 | |
the deficit and so spending the
Government has not looked at | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
reducing foreign aid of scrapping
HS2 reducing unnecessary spending, | 0:34:32 | 0:34:36 | |
it has cut local government funding,
and that is an issue of priorities. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:41 | |
What do you say? We have been
incredibly inventive in the way we | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
have made our cuts and in our
internal processes but I think it is | 0:34:44 | 0:34:49 | |
a false economy, austerity. If it
impacts on our ability to invest in | 0:34:49 | 0:34:55 | |
children's mental health, to keep
families in their home, this is not | 0:34:55 | 0:34:58 | |
a cost without cost. They will turn
up somewhere else in the system, | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
maybe not this year or next but in
five years. Many of the things we do | 0:35:02 | 0:35:08 | |
at local government level are about
protecting costs to the public | 0:35:08 | 0:35:10 | |
purse. And the conversations about
councils helping with the cost of | 0:35:10 | 0:35:15 | |
living, the people paying the
council tax families that I meet all | 0:35:15 | 0:35:19 | |
the time and represent. They are
left out of the conversation so you | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
have the local government
spokesperson and the council leader | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
saying, we have to put up council
tax, we can't afford it, but | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
families are under pressure to and
there was a lack of recognition | 0:35:31 | 0:35:37 | |
about the situation. There was a
survey that said 95% of councils | 0:35:37 | 0:35:42 | |
were going to put up council tax and
they interviewed the people that did | 0:35:42 | 0:35:48 | |
that survey and did not bring up the
fact that councils were but families | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
have to pay more. We have at that
into account and that is why we | 0:35:50 | 0:35:54 | |
didn't put it at 6% that we could.
We are aware of the struggles of | 0:35:54 | 0:36:01 | |
families face, particularly with
this regressive tax. We've done | 0:36:01 | 0:36:05 | |
incredible job of engaging. We have
a budget simulator online that | 0:36:05 | 0:36:09 | |
anyone in the city can have their
own go at balancing our budget and | 0:36:09 | 0:36:13 | |
we run citywide events where we
bring people into the council house | 0:36:13 | 0:36:17 | |
to make sure they are participating
in the way we run the city. Local | 0:36:17 | 0:36:21 | |
governments have been incredibly
inventive but, actually, it is in | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
some sense trying to make bricks
without straw. We need investment. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:31 | |
It is not just about local
government. What we are talking | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
about his leadership of place. So
when we look at running Bristol it | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
is not just about the City Council
but about how we work with criminal | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
Justice, the voluntary sector,
business, health services. Why did | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
you try and cut the council tax
reduction scheme for the poorest | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
households in Bristol? Is one of the
options we had to look at. One of | 0:36:48 | 0:36:53 | |
the most important things we can do
in the city is protect our most | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
vulnerable citizens. You wanted to
cut the council tax reduction | 0:36:56 | 0:37:00 | |
scheme. Wanted is a loaded word. We
looked at the range of options | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
available to us to make sure we came
home with a balance. But you you | 0:37:04 | 0:37:09 | |
turned at the end and didn't go
through with it. That kind of | 0:37:09 | 0:37:16 | |
language doesn't help dynamic and
engaging politics. If you are | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
sending a message about what you are
trying to do the people of Bristol | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
and the most vulnerable, dude didn't
follow through with the decision | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
that you would come to. We found
other means of doing so did we saved | 0:37:23 | 0:37:28 | |
£800,000 a year on senior staffing
costs. I would challenge a little | 0:37:28 | 0:37:31 | |
bit on this challenge of U-turns and
so forth. We looked at a whole range | 0:37:31 | 0:37:37 | |
of things we could do to make sure
that we managed our money | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
responsibly. When we have a
conversation with the city and put | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
on our options, that was one we
didn't have to pursue. Is that | 0:37:44 | 0:37:48 | |
really a decision that should be
made, whether or not to cut funding | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
to the locust -- poorest people in
the local constituency, all because | 0:37:51 | 0:37:56 | |
central government won't fund local
government properly? Let's not | 0:37:56 | 0:38:04 | |
pretend they are immune from
spending cuts. There is a Vicky Boss | 0:38:04 | 0:38:11 | |
is. There are 500 council bosses in
the country earning more than the | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
Prime Minister. I think that would
be a good place to start for less | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
spending and I think in Bristol you
have an office in Brussels. I would | 0:38:18 | 0:38:22 | |
say that can probably go when we
leave the EU. That was a | 0:38:22 | 0:38:27 | |
recommendation by the Conservative
group last week. At this time when | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
we are parting from the EU it is
absolutely essential that we are on | 0:38:29 | 0:38:33 | |
the world stage promoting our
businesses and the investable | 0:38:33 | 0:38:45 | |
opportunities in our cities. If we
stepped off the international stage | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
at this time when our government and
country need all the help to remain | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
visible, that would be a backward
step. What did you make of your | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
colleague Labour MP Chris Williamson
proposing a progressive council tax | 0:38:55 | 0:38:57 | |
plan to hike bills for the better
off and freeze them for the poorest? | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
He made a speech in Bristol, too.
Before anyone makes grand statements | 0:39:00 | 0:39:02 | |
about the local level they need to
leader for local level and one of | 0:39:02 | 0:39:05 | |
the weaknesses of British politics
at the moment is that it doesn't | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
have the voice of local leaders in
as high regard as it should. Brexit | 0:39:08 | 0:39:15 | |
Westminster Brexit. The national
debate is so much about Westminster | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
when actually real things are being
done at the core city level. Was | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
that a mistake, to make that
suggestion? It wasn't something I | 0:39:21 | 0:39:26 | |
supported Any other councils you
think would take that suggestion? I | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
didn't hear a choir of support for
it. We are making sure we are | 0:39:30 | 0:39:34 | |
financially responsible, delivering
for our population, taking cuts in | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
house, but what we need is
Government to start investing in | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
local government it Re-evaluation of
council tax bands, a good idea? | 0:39:41 | 0:39:45 | |
Potentially but on the point about
local power, there is an opportunity | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
here you my to change the change the
way the government is funded because | 0:39:49 | 0:39:53 | |
a lot of it is hand-outs from the
Government and council tax but if | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
you have more tax-raising powers at
a local level and about how you can | 0:39:56 | 0:40:00 | |
run services - a lot of it is
mandated by central government - I | 0:40:00 | 0:40:04 | |
think that would be a good thing
because you would be in charge of | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
more and people could vote based on
changes you are making and not on | 0:40:06 | 0:40:09 | |
what central government is telling
you to do. Chloe Westley, thank you. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:15 | |
For more than 70 years,
mortgage interest support has been | 0:40:15 | 0:40:17 | |
available to homeowners,
usually those claiming other | 0:40:17 | 0:40:19 | |
benefits, who are struggling
to meet repayments. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:20 | |
From April, it will be replaced
by a new "second mortgage" scheme | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
where the Government
loans people the money - | 0:40:23 | 0:40:25 | |
they pay it back later
when the house is sold. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
Critics say it'll force
people further into debt, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:29 | |
as Phil McCann explains. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:31 | |
Go on, we're going to
keep swinging, Lucas! | 0:40:31 | 0:40:34 | |
This is daily life for Susanne. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:36 | |
Her son Lucas has autism, attention
deficit hyperactivity disorder, | 0:40:36 | 0:40:39 | |
and nervous problems
causing hearing loss. | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
She's a single mum and a full-time
carer for Lucas and his brother. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:47 | |
He's full-on. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:48 | |
He's 24/7. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:49 | |
We've only just got the toilet
training under control. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
He doesn't sleep. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:54 | |
He doesn't get the world. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:56 | |
So what's your world
like at the moment? | 0:40:56 | 0:40:58 | |
Difficult. | 0:40:58 | 0:40:59 | |
You can't switch off. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:00 | |
You have to be one step ahead
of him all the time. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:03 | |
Not only just to... | 0:41:03 | 0:41:04 | |
To... | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
You know, it's all
about keeping him safe. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:09 | |
Susanne is one of 124,000 people
who get the benefit called Support | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
for Mortgage Interest. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:17 | |
At the moment, Susanne's mortgage
interest support payments cover | 0:41:17 | 0:41:19 | |
around a third of the monthly cost
of her mortgage. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:22 | |
But soon the payments won't come
in the form of a benefit - | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
they'll be a loan which will have
to be paid back whenever | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
the house is sold. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
I'm gutted. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:31 | |
I feel like I've been
kicked in the teeth. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:33 | |
You know, they're draining me
dry and I feel very... | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
It's made me feel very,
very vulnerable. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
The government is writing to
everyone who gets the benefit now. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
It means pressure's growing before
the change comes in in April. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
They should pause this,
they should review this and I think | 0:41:45 | 0:41:49 | |
for the amount of money that they're
saving in the grand scheme | 0:41:49 | 0:41:54 | |
of things, again, we should go back
to a system which provides a grant | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
rather than a loan on top of a loan. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
And for the homeowners
affected by this change, | 0:42:02 | 0:42:04 | |
they'll end up paying more
than they borrow - because the loan | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
itself will have interest. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
The interest is very low
in comparison to other loans, | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
but nevertheless it is still a loan
secured against your house. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
So if you own your own property,
or a mortgage property, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:19 | |
then this is really like having
a second mortgage. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:23 | |
The benefit costs the government
£170 million a year at the moment. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:27 | |
Ministers say it's reasonable
the financial help should be paid | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
back, but the loan will be written
off if the sale doesn't | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
raise enough to do that. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
The only change will be
when the property is sold, | 0:42:36 | 0:42:38 | |
if there's sufficient equity
in the property that the taxpayer | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
gets to recover some of that
support that's been given, | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
sometimes for very,
very long periods. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
But we fundamentally want
to maintain people in their homes, | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
so they should have no fear. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:52 | |
So, Susanne isn't worried
about immediate money problems, | 0:42:52 | 0:42:54 | |
but from April she and 124,000
others will have less to pass | 0:42:54 | 0:42:58 | |
on to their children. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:05 | |
I'm joined now by Helen Morrissey,
a personal finance specialist | 0:43:05 | 0:43:07 | |
at Royal London, and Kit Malthouse,
the Work and Pensions minister. | 0:43:07 | 0:43:13 | |
Welcome to both of you. Canon, you
can see why the Government might | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
want to scrap this benefit because
it seems an anomaly that the | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
taxpayer is helping to pay the
mortgages of 124,000 people when | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
billions can't even afford to get on
the housing ladder. The issue that | 0:43:23 | 0:43:27 | |
we have is how these changes are
being conveyed to people. We put in | 0:43:27 | 0:43:32 | |
a request to the DWP for some
figures on this in January and | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
bearing in mind, this is a massive
change coming in April, by the end | 0:43:34 | 0:43:40 | |
of January out of 125,000
recipients, less than 7000 had | 0:43:40 | 0:43:44 | |
chosen the loan option. That worries
me because I'm wondering what | 0:43:44 | 0:43:48 | |
happened to the other 100,000 people
who have S M I and have not made a | 0:43:48 | 0:43:53 | |
decision and that is where I think
the Government needs to look at | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
delaying the roll-out of this to
give people time and support to make | 0:43:56 | 0:44:00 | |
the right decision. It is not very
much time to make quite a dramatic | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
change if the figures are as Helen
says, less than fewer than 7000 have | 0:44:04 | 0:44:09 | |
signed up to this loan, what are you
going to do about the others? We're | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
been communicating since July so we
have about 110,000 people on the as | 0:44:13 | 0:44:16 | |
of this morning. We have sent about
440,000 bits of paper, there have | 0:44:16 | 0:44:23 | |
been 38,000 phone calls, of which
275,000 have been successful so the | 0:44:23 | 0:44:28 | |
vast majority of people are in
conversation with the department | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
about whether they are going to make
a decision or not. We will be | 0:44:31 | 0:44:36 | |
pushing that right through to the
end of April and we have room for a | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
bit of flexibility at the time but
we think the vast majority of | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
people, 90 percentage of people,
will make a decision in time and | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
that is the pattern we are seeing
and we are throwing at it. Whoa are | 0:44:44 | 0:44:49 | |
you reassured by that? I am not
really. You might have been making a | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
decision in time but whether it is a
decision they have been rushed | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
into... I have been looking at a lot
of forums for charities like Scope | 0:44:55 | 0:44:59 | |
that deal with disabled people, a
lot of them say they don't | 0:44:59 | 0:45:04 | |
understand it, and they have been
posted a couple of days ago. They've | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
think they might have to sell their
homes. Can you guarantee not a | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
single family will be made homeless
by this? The whole Berbers of the | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
scheme is to maintain people in
their homes so from a cosmetic point | 0:45:14 | 0:45:17 | |
of view, nobody would see any
change. The payments would continue | 0:45:17 | 0:45:21 | |
and am direct to the mortgage
company, the bank, so nobody need to | 0:45:21 | 0:45:25 | |
see any at all. The only changes
that whoa at the end when the house | 0:45:25 | 0:45:32 | |
is sold, if you make a profit, we
are asking that some of the | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
supporters repaid it Given the
scheme costs £170 million, housing | 0:45:35 | 0:45:40 | |
benefit costs £25 billion, isn't
this an expensive way of making a | 0:45:40 | 0:45:45 | |
point? It's £150 million will have
invested other services. Government | 0:45:45 | 0:45:54 | |
is about making these decisions. SMI
was set up in 1948 and was designed | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
as a temporary scheme to maintain
people in their houses. We're now | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
getting to a position where people
are taking mortgages into | 0:46:02 | 0:46:07 | |
retirement, which was never heard of
before. They were in receipt of this | 0:46:07 | 0:46:11 | |
were 20 or 30 years. All were asking
is in a housing market where prices | 0:46:11 | 0:46:15 | |
are rising rapidly, if you make a
profit, that the taxpayer recoups | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
some of that. I understand your
reservations because the timing and | 0:46:18 | 0:46:24 | |
people haven't understood what they
would like to do, are not all of | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
them, but the principle at the heart
of it, do you accept that, that this | 0:46:26 | 0:46:30 | |
shouldn't necessarily be an asset
that is passed on to your children | 0:46:30 | 0:46:33 | |
if you've been receiving benefit all
the way through? We're not calling | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
for this change to not happen. The
issue is how it is being | 0:46:36 | 0:46:42 | |
communicated. Will you delay it was
to mark your going to go ahead. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:48 | |
275,000 successful calls and my
message to people is to be | 0:46:48 | 0:46:56 | |
reassured. The idea of the scheme is
to maintain them in their homes and | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
if they wish, they can continue with
the payments. The other thing to | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
remember is it's not a one-off
decision. You can get three, four, | 0:47:02 | 0:47:07 | |
five, six, two years in and decide
you don't want alone any more. We | 0:47:07 | 0:47:11 | |
can repay early, leave it at a
certain level and wait until the | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
house is sold. It's not an
irreversible decision. What do you | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
think, Marvin? If I look at the
housing crisis we have in my city, | 0:47:17 | 0:47:26 | |
11,500 people on the waiting list,
Private rent is out of control, | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
private tenancies breaking down,
resulting in homelessness. If I | 0:47:29 | 0:47:32 | |
wanted something to come from
government to help the macro | 0:47:32 | 0:47:34 | |
intervene in the market, make sure
we have stable families in settled | 0:47:34 | 0:47:39 | |
communities that are self maintained
with good social capital, this would | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
not be at. I wish there was more of
a conversation between Westminster | 0:47:41 | 0:47:46 | |
and the leaders of cities where real
people live to talk about what we | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
actually need to enable us to create
these kind of spaces that are good | 0:47:49 | 0:47:53 | |
for the UK. This is part of a wider
package of welfare reform. I've just | 0:47:53 | 0:47:58 | |
come from a meeting with the
Secretary of State of the DWP to | 0:47:58 | 0:48:02 | |
talk about that, what more we can do
to work together with the Ministry | 0:48:02 | 0:48:05 | |
of Housing to try to improve. And
not just talking to Westminster... | 0:48:05 | 0:48:12 | |
Talking to you on a regular basis
and I know they are holding Round | 0:48:12 | 0:48:16 | |
Tables all the time. We have to
leave it there but thank you very | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
much. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
Now, our guest of the day
Marvin Rees is one of | 0:48:20 | 0:48:22 | |
a new generation of Labour
politicians elected under | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:25 | |
Many Labour members and activists
see this period as one of renewal, | 0:48:25 | 0:48:28 | |
optimism and excitement
for the party. | 0:48:28 | 0:48:31 | |
But our next guest is
somewhat more pessimistic. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:32 | |
The former Labour MP Tom Harris has
written a new book called | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
Ten Years
In The Death Of The Labour Party. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:37 | |
It's out on Thursday. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:39 | |
So, what is the state
of the Labour Party and has it | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
changed unrecognisably
since Corbyn's election? | 0:48:42 | 0:48:43 | |
He joins us now from Glasgow. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:51 | |
Tom, welcome to the programme. Your
book has this dramatic title, but | 0:48:51 | 0:48:57 | |
even your conclusion is that the
party hasn't gone full dodo yet, it | 0:48:57 | 0:49:02 | |
hasn't died. It's a long way from
extinction, isn't it? The title is | 0:49:02 | 0:49:08 | |
taken from an earlier book by my
colleague who wrote a book called | 0:49:08 | 0:49:14 | |
four years of the death of the
Labour Party. After that, the party | 0:49:14 | 0:49:18 | |
did recover. Maybe the Labour Party
will turn back to it traditional | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
form after Jeremy Corbyn exits the
stage. I am as you say pessimistic. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:30 | |
Even Corbin fans can look at the
title of the book and read it and | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
interpreted as they like. They could
say that that ten years that I | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
referred to in the title covers the
period from 2007 when Gordon Brown | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
made the catastrophic decision not
to hold an early general election | 0:49:43 | 0:49:47 | |
and then ten years later during the
June general election of 2017, when | 0:49:47 | 0:49:54 | |
the party arguably rose from its
deathbed and started to recover. I | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
am more pessimistic. I see the
current Labour Party, Corbyn's | 0:49:57 | 0:50:02 | |
Labour Party, as soap different from
the party of Clement Attlee and Tony | 0:50:02 | 0:50:09 | |
Blair. It doesn't resemble any more.
What we see now is the equivalent of | 0:50:09 | 0:50:14 | |
the pod people in Invasion of the
Body Snatchers of their relationship | 0:50:14 | 0:50:20 | |
with their victims. There really
isn't much in common. How did you | 0:50:20 | 0:50:25 | |
vote in the general election? That's
between me and the ballot box. You | 0:50:25 | 0:50:30 | |
will see if you voted for the Labour
Party of which were still a member, | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
but you won't say which way you
voted. You talk about Jeremy Corbyn | 0:50:33 | 0:50:39 | |
being so different to the party of
Attlee but you must agree that the | 0:50:39 | 0:50:45 | |
party performed better than
expectations and the last general | 0:50:45 | 0:50:49 | |
election. But what party performed
that well? The party I've been a | 0:50:49 | 0:50:54 | |
member of the 34 years is not a
party for example that would ever | 0:50:54 | 0:50:58 | |
have provided a safe haven for inti
Semites -- anti-Semites. The party I | 0:50:58 | 0:51:05 | |
belong to would never use bullying
as a way to get its way. The most | 0:51:05 | 0:51:09 | |
important thing is policy and this
is something a lot of the coverage | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
of the general election has not
covered. The manifesto that Corbyn | 0:51:12 | 0:51:16 | |
issued in 2017 was largely regarded
as fairly moderate, something | 0:51:16 | 0:51:22 | |
Miliband could have put his name to.
Actually the most radical and most | 0:51:22 | 0:51:26 | |
extreme policy that Labour put
forward wasn't even in the | 0:51:26 | 0:51:30 | |
manifesto. Jeremy Corbyn said during
the general election that if he | 0:51:30 | 0:51:32 | |
became Prime Minister he would
institute a review of policy on | 0:51:32 | 0:51:37 | |
Trident. There's no doubt how that
review would have concluded and we | 0:51:37 | 0:51:41 | |
would have ended up disarming
Trident without a political vote of | 0:51:41 | 0:51:45 | |
the people. Lets me get Marvin's
response. What do you say to Tom | 0:51:45 | 0:51:50 | |
Harris? You've been ambiguous about
support for Jeremy Corbyn. Are you | 0:51:50 | 0:51:52 | |
fully signed up to the Corbyn agenda
now? I support Jeremy as leader of | 0:51:52 | 0:51:59 | |
the party, but when I joined, I
joined politics quite late, as you | 0:51:59 | 0:52:02 | |
saw in the film earlier on. What I
didn't do was come in and say, which | 0:52:02 | 0:52:06 | |
gang will I join? I found a group of
people I felt were committed to | 0:52:06 | 0:52:11 | |
tackling inequality, delivering an
increasing economy, doing social | 0:52:11 | 0:52:14 | |
justice, and I joined up. That's
what I want and I want to carve out | 0:52:14 | 0:52:17 | |
my own space. I'm not looking to
recast myself in the mould of anyone | 0:52:17 | 0:52:21 | |
in the party. It's about bringing
together a range of people from | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
different brands who can coalesce
around a shared number of | 0:52:25 | 0:52:30 | |
priorities. Do you see Tom as being
from a different tribe or faction? I | 0:52:30 | 0:52:34 | |
don't know him so I wouldn't say
that. If you are committed to | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
economic equality, political
empowerment, then we can work | 0:52:37 | 0:52:43 | |
together. But clearly there's a
distinction because I don't think | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
all parties are on the same page
with us. What's the for you | 0:52:46 | 0:52:52 | |
successful Labour leader? To be able
to hold a range of people together | 0:52:52 | 0:52:57 | |
across the spectrum. That essential.
Steering Jeremy Corbyn is doing | 0:52:57 | 0:52:59 | |
that? It's partly his job and people
are in the party and he's doing that | 0:52:59 | 0:53:06 | |
but it's up to people to stay in the
game, stay in the match. Martin | 0:53:06 | 0:53:11 | |
Luther King talk about creative
tensions. You have those differences | 0:53:11 | 0:53:18 | |
of views and comes your positions.
Why hasn't Labour won a nationwide | 0:53:18 | 0:53:22 | |
election since 2005? I joined in
2006, so... I'm late to that. I | 0:53:22 | 0:53:30 | |
guess people across the country just
chose not to vote and have not found | 0:53:30 | 0:53:35 | |
the party attractive. At a local
level we've done incredibly well. | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
All core tent cities until last
summer were Labour run and that | 0:53:38 | 0:53:43 | |
again is something that happens
distribute portion at amount of | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
attention on Westminster and not
enough attention on the fact that | 0:53:46 | 0:53:48 | |
Labour is actually in power in the
major cities across the UK. All | 0:53:48 | 0:53:52 | |
right. Tom Harris, thank you for
joining us. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:58 | |
Now, Liam Fox is speaking | 0:53:58 | 0:53:59 | |
in an address focusing
on the benefits of life | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
outside a customs union. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:02 | |
The International Trade Secretary
tore into Labour's plans | 0:54:02 | 0:54:04 | |
for a customs union with the EU
after Brexit and highlighted | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
the opportunities for global
trade outside the EU. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
Let's have a look at
what he had to say. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
We cannot let the practices
and the patterns of the past | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
constrain the opportunities
of the future. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:17 | |
We require an economic outlook that
allows us to take advantage | 0:54:17 | 0:54:20 | |
of the substantial opportunities
that Europe will continue to bring, | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
but without limiting our ability
to adapt to a changing and growing | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
world beyond the European continent. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:33 | |
The UK is perfectly placed
to partner with the economic | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
powerhouses of the future
and they in turn are eager | 0:54:35 | 0:54:39 | |
for the mutual prosperity that such
a partnership would bring. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:44 | |
To do this, we need the ability
to exercise a fully | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
independent trade policy. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:52 | |
We have to maximise our overall
trading opportunities from the UK | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
to secure the prosperity
of our people. | 0:54:55 | 0:55:01 | |
Joining us now is the Conservative
MP and Leave supporter Nigel Evans. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:04 | |
He's also a member
of the International | 0:55:04 | 0:55:05 | |
Trade Select Committee. | 0:55:05 | 0:55:10 | |
Rather helpfully! Nigel, despite
what Liam Fox has just said, his | 0:55:10 | 0:55:16 | |
former permanent secretary as you
will know has argued that leaving | 0:55:16 | 0:55:18 | |
the single market and because and
union is like rejecting a three | 0:55:18 | 0:55:22 | |
course meal now in favour of a
promise of a packet of crisps later. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:25 | |
How can you make up for such loss of
trade? So negative. I heard what he | 0:55:25 | 0:55:30 | |
had to say. It's true! I don't
believe so. They IMF said 90% of the | 0:55:30 | 0:55:36 | |
growth over the next ten to 15 years
will happen outside the EU. 44% of | 0:55:36 | 0:55:40 | |
our export with the EU. It is an
important market to put at risk. It | 0:55:40 | 0:55:47 | |
is but we won't turn our backs on
the EU. We still wants to do deals | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
Liam Fox has been to visit 150
countries throughout the world with | 0:55:50 | 0:55:54 | |
his colleagues. I was in the USA
just three weeks ago talking to some | 0:55:54 | 0:55:58 | |
of their congressmen. Really keen to
do a trade deal with the UK. I sat | 0:55:58 | 0:56:04 | |
with the trade representative of New
Zealand last week. They want to do a | 0:56:04 | 0:56:07 | |
trade deal with us. I think the
potential is absolutely brilliant | 0:56:07 | 0:56:10 | |
but if people are like his former
civil servant, who were saying how | 0:56:10 | 0:56:15 | |
bleak it was all going to be but yet
last year our exports went up 11%. | 0:56:15 | 0:56:19 | |
We have more venture capital coming
into London... But we haven't left | 0:56:19 | 0:56:25 | |
the EU! But we are still part of the
EU, we haven't left. There is now | 0:56:25 | 0:56:31 | |
more pressure, Jeremy Corbyn has
cemented Labour's position to remain | 0:56:31 | 0:56:36 | |
part of the union... Customs union.
The EU 27 have so much more weight | 0:56:36 | 0:56:41 | |
when it comes to negotiating trade
deals than the UK on its own. It | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
will be much harder to do, take
longer and be more difficult to make | 0:56:45 | 0:56:50 | |
trade dipped -- make trade dispute.
It easier than when you are somebody | 0:56:50 | 0:56:57 | |
requisite in 28 countries. A bit
more have to. Canada took eight | 0:56:57 | 0:57:02 | |
years, that's still not come into
play. As far as Jeremy Corbyn is | 0:57:02 | 0:57:08 | |
concerned, his Orwellian doublespeak
has to be the greatest mis-selling | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
since PPI. Help concerned are you
that you're pro-EU colleagues are | 0:57:13 | 0:57:17 | |
going to walk through the lobby with
Jeremy Corbyn on that amendment to | 0:57:17 | 0:57:21 | |
stay in a customs union? I think
that would be thwarting the wishes | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
of the British people. Not so many
months ago, the manifesto said we | 0:57:25 | 0:57:30 | |
were leaving the EU. You can't stay
in a customs union website you are | 0:57:30 | 0:57:34 | |
chained to the EU to do all your
trade deals with you. Part of reason | 0:57:34 | 0:57:38 | |
people want to leave it so that we
can do trade deals with the rest the | 0:57:38 | 0:57:43 | |
world and the fastest growing
economies outside the EU. That's the | 0:57:43 | 0:57:46 | |
point. People voted to leave the EU.
We will still be half in and half | 0:57:46 | 0:57:50 | |
out every part of the customs union.
They did but I find the leadership | 0:57:50 | 0:57:54 | |
of government on this incredibly
disappointed. I was in Brussels last | 0:57:54 | 0:57:59 | |
week. I got to meet the two key
characters before we'd had chance to | 0:57:59 | 0:58:05 | |
sit around the table with our own
government. There's been no | 0:58:05 | 0:58:08 | |
proactive engagement with the ten
biggest cities outside London | 0:58:08 | 0:58:11 | |
talking about what we need. If you'd
seen us you wouldn't be getting a | 0:58:11 | 0:58:15 | |
Bristol City Council perspective,
you'd be speaking to our chamber of | 0:58:15 | 0:58:19 | |
commerce, our universities, all
those places that are saying they | 0:58:19 | 0:58:21 | |
need government to be listening to
what goes on outside Westminster. In | 0:58:21 | 0:58:26 | |
literally a few seconds, how much is
Theresa May under pressure to give | 0:58:26 | 0:58:30 | |
way? She won't give way. To leave
the EU we need to leave the customs | 0:58:30 | 0:58:34 | |
union. The answer to our quiz... | 0:58:34 | 0:58:37 | |
The question was... | 0:58:37 | 0:58:38 | |
Post-Brexit, one of Winston
Churchill's favourite | 0:58:38 | 0:58:40 | |
tipples is going to be sold
in pint-sized bottles - | 0:58:40 | 0:58:42 | |
a size that Churchill
considered to be just perfect. | 0:58:42 | 0:58:44 | |
But which drink is it? | 0:58:44 | 0:58:47 | |
I'll take that one! It is champagne,
we gave you the answer! That's all | 0:58:47 | 0:58:55 | |
we've | 0:58:55 | 0:58:55 | |
we've got time for today. Goodbye. | 0:58:55 | 0:58:59 |