Browse content similar to 12/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello and welcome to
the Daily Politics. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
Dramatic developments
in the Westminster bullying scandal | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
as allegations against
Labour's Shadow Work | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
and Pensions Secretary
lead her to stand aside, | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
and MPs call for an investigation
into John Bercow's | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
actions as Speaker. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:55 | |
As Theresa May convenes her
National Security Council, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:58 | |
could we be close to the government
apportioning blame to Russia | 0:00:58 | 0:01:01 | |
for the poisoning of a former
Russian double agent, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
Sergei Skripal, and his daughter? | 0:01:03 | 0:01:08 | |
University lecturers
are entering their third week | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
of strike action over planned
changes to pensions. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
We'll be on the picket
lines talking to staff | 0:01:14 | 0:01:16 | |
and the students affected. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
Comic Relief raise millions
of pounds for charities | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
across the globe and in
the UK but does it harm | 0:01:20 | 0:01:21 | |
the image of Africa? | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
One MP thinks so. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:25 | |
He'll tell us why. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:30 | |
A billion people reduced to just
one prevailing image - | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
mothers, desperate, crying,
worried for their children. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:41 | |
All that in the next hour,
and with us for the whole | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
of the programme today
Dame Margaret Hodge, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
former Labour culture minister,
and Tom Tughendhat, the chairman | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
of the Foreign Affairs
Select Committee. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:59 | |
First today, bullying allegations
hang over Westminster this morning. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
In a dramatic development last
night, the Labour Party | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
announced that Shadow Work
and Pensions Secretary | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
Debbie Abrahams had stood down
from her front-bench role | 0:02:07 | 0:02:09 | |
while bullying allegations
against her were investigated. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:14 | |
She refutes the claims and hit back
at Jeremy Corbyn's office accusing | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
them of ten months of "aggressive"
and "intimidating" behaviour. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:22 | |
At the same time, some MPs
are calling for an investigation | 0:02:22 | 0:02:26 | |
into the Speaker John Bercow
after allegations surfaced about his | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
treatment of a clerk in his office. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
He also strongly denies the claims. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:34 | |
Our political correspondent
Ben Wright can tell us more. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:40 | |
Ben, can we go back to the Shadow
Work and Pensions Secretary, Debbie | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
Abrahams, before she was either
forced to step aside or decided to | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
step aside herself. What is actually
going on? Was very strange. Last | 0:02:47 | 0:02:53 | |
night, suddenly the Labour Party put
out a statement that Debbie Abrahams | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
had stepped aside while this
employment issue was investigated | 0:02:57 | 0:03:02 | |
and almost immediately there was a
counter statement by Debbie | 0:03:02 | 0:03:07 | |
Abrahams, completely taking Labour's
statement apart. She said that she | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
had not agreed to stand down. She
completely denied any allegations of | 0:03:11 | 0:03:18 | |
bullying and she accused some people
in the Labour leader's office of | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
aggressive, intimidating and wholly
unprofessional behaviour. She said | 0:03:22 | 0:03:26 | |
they had demonstrated a bully and
culture of the worst kind so she hit | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
back really strongly. This thing
erupted out of the blue on what had | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
clearly been an internal Labour
Party matter, and it has submitted a | 0:03:34 | 0:03:39 | |
come public in the most edifying
way. Have they fallen out, Debbie | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
Abrahams on the leader's office? I
think they clearly have, if you take | 0:03:44 | 0:03:50 | |
Debbie Abrahams' statement at face
value. There is a real problem here. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
But she has been a member of Jeremy
Corbyn's team we think relatively | 0:03:54 | 0:03:59 | |
harmoniously for the last two of
three years. She has been Shadow | 0:03:59 | 0:04:04 | |
Work and Pensions Secretary for two
years and seen to be working well as | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
part of the team but something has
gone very awry in how the Labour | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
Party internally are handling what I
am told are more than two | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
independent, separate complaints
about Debbie Abrahams' behaviour. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:19 | |
She completely denies any allegation
at all that she has been involved in | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
bullion. There has been no reaction
about this. We haven't heard from | 0:04:22 | 0:04:27 | |
Jeremy Corbyn Debbie Abrahams but I
noticed in the last few minutes that | 0:04:27 | 0:04:30 | |
Andy Burnham, Labour's mayor of
greater Manchester, said that Debbie | 0:04:30 | 0:04:35 | |
deserve much better than this and
has been very loyal to the party | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
over the years, so there is some
sympathy there from a senior figure | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
in the party. And a word on John
Bercow, the speaker, also facing | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
allegations of bullying, which he
has denied. What is the development | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
there? You will remember last week
Newsnight ran a very big report on I | 0:04:51 | 0:04:57 | |
think three MPs, one of whom was
John Bercow, accused of bullying. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
All three deny those allegations
very strongly but there is some | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
pressure today on John Bercow, so a
Tory MP Andrew Bridgen has put down | 0:05:06 | 0:05:11 | |
an early day motion, effectively a
Parliamentary petition, questioning | 0:05:11 | 0:05:17 | |
whether John Bercow can continue
with his job as Speaker. He has been | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
a very long-term critic of John
Bercow, it must be said. Separately, | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
the co-leader of the Green Party,
Caroline Lucas, is hoping to get an | 0:05:26 | 0:05:32 | |
urgent question called today because
she wants the complaints made by the | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
former clerks to be heard about on
the floor of the chamber discussed | 0:05:36 | 0:05:41 | |
and she wants clerks to be included
in the code of conduct that is being | 0:05:41 | 0:05:45 | |
pushed through the Commons now, in
response to what have been months | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
now of accusations of harassment and
bullying on the Parliamentary | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
estate. Ben Wright, thank you very
much. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Well, joining me now
in the studio is Andrew Bridgen. | 0:05:56 | 0:05:58 | |
He's the architect of a motion
in the House of Commons which calls | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
for an independent inquiry
into the Speaker's actions. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:03 | |
Welcome to the Daily Politics. Is
this effectively a no-confidence | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
motion in the speaker? No, I'm
hoping it is a motion that the house | 0:06:07 | 0:06:12 | |
can get behind, even those who are
avid fans of John Bercow. The | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
speaker has denied all the
allegations against him so it is an | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
opportunity for him to clear his
name. Isn't this just an excuse to | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
get rid of him? You don't like him -
you have made that very clear. He | 0:06:23 | 0:06:31 | |
doesn't like me. That may be the
case but you are the one button your | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
weight behind this no-confidence
motion in him. Are you trying to get | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
rid of him? We're hearing lots of
allegations around Parliament, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
around harassment and bullying and
it is important, the speaker is | 0:06:42 | 0:06:46 | |
crucial to the culture of the House
of Commons. I don't think we have a | 0:06:46 | 0:06:51 | |
culture of endemic bullying and
harassment but the speaker has to be | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
beyond approach and an independent
investigation into these very | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
serious allegations against him I
think would clear the air. Would you | 0:06:57 | 0:07:03 | |
support this motion? I am very
supportive of the speaker and I | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
think he has done a very good job in
making sure backbenchers are heard | 0:07:05 | 0:07:09 | |
and I support Andrea Leadsom's work
to make sure bullying is looked into | 0:07:09 | 0:07:15 | |
throughout the house and died don't
think anyone is above it. I am | 0:07:15 | 0:07:19 | |
supporting the work that Andrea and
the cross-party commission has done | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
on trying to stop bullying. You are
not going to sign this motion? I | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
have a policy of not signing early
day motions at all on the basis that | 0:07:26 | 0:07:31 | |
they don't change anything and cost
money so I don't see the point. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
Well, what is the point? Well, 158,
I think, cross-party MPs signed my | 0:07:34 | 0:07:42 | |
motion about the TV licence. Were
scuppered House of Lords but we did | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
get it into the bill. What is the
point? I think it needs to send a | 0:07:47 | 0:07:52 | |
clear message from the house that it
will not be tolerated. Nobody has to | 0:07:52 | 0:07:56 | |
come to work to be bullied or
harassed and that goes for everyone | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
in Parliament, right up to Mr
Speaker, who was particularly | 0:08:00 | 0:08:02 | |
important. Do you agree that any
allegations have to be investigated? | 0:08:02 | 0:08:11 | |
Let's look at John Bercow because he
decided over the introduction of the | 0:08:11 | 0:08:16 | |
code of conduct around harassment
and bullying, so I have absolutely | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
no doubt that if a complaint were to
be made against him he would go | 0:08:19 | 0:08:25 | |
through the process. A complaint,
Andrew, as I understand it, has yet | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
to be made, and you are well, well
known, decent man that you may be, | 0:08:29 | 0:08:34 | |
to be utterly hostile to Mr Speaker.
I think he's been a great Speaker. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:40 | |
He has modernised the house, he has
brought Parliament back to its | 0:08:40 | 0:08:46 | |
rightful position of hearing debate
and holding ministers to account, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
and I don't think that you should be
using this to undermine a man whom | 0:08:49 | 0:08:54 | |
you just don't like. I don't know
why but you don't like him. I can | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
accept that the speaker has many
good points and has made reforms | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
around the chamber and procedures
that I am supportive of. However, he | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
has many negatives with him as well.
I think the Speaker has to be | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
impartial and I think he has lost
that impartiality. When he came out | 0:09:09 | 0:09:14 | |
and spoke about supporting Remain,
when he came out and said that the | 0:09:14 | 0:09:19 | |
President of the United States would
be welcome in Westminster Hall, he | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
is quite entitled to have those
views privately... With the greatest | 0:09:23 | 0:09:28 | |
respect, you are just demonstrating
the motivation for writing down the | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
early day motion. What has that got
to do with bullying? This has | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
nothing to do with bullying and
harassment, this is to do with your | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
view of Mr Speaker. I have a very
different view. Has a complaint been | 0:09:40 | 0:09:46 | |
brought against him? No, it hasn't.
At a complaint is brought against | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
him, he will undergo the very
processes he himself introduced. You | 0:09:50 | 0:09:56 | |
know very well that the person in
question has not made a complaint, | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
it is those around her. One of the
reasons for that is that | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
whistle-blowers are treated
tremendously that the House of | 0:10:03 | 0:10:05 | |
Commons, as you both well-known. So
what is it you want investigated | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
exactly? The allegations of bullying
that have been made against Mr | 0:10:09 | 0:10:15 | |
Speaker to be investigated
independently. You want to look at | 0:10:15 | 0:10:19 | |
whether or not he has been partisan
on Europe, which in my view he | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
hasn't been. What about these
allegations, though, Margaret Hodge? | 0:10:22 | 0:10:29 | |
Let's go through all the
allegations. The fact we are talking | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
about it is really good. Five years
ago, certainly when I was a | 0:10:32 | 0:10:39 | |
minister, we managed those
situations where there was | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
harassment and bullying. We managed
to them. The idea that you can now | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
complain and be open about them is a
force for good and there are | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
processes in place... I support,
actually, the demand that this | 0:10:49 | 0:10:53 | |
should cover clerks of the house as
well as people working for MPs. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
Perfectly sensible idea and it is a
good thing we're talking about this. | 0:10:56 | 0:11:02 | |
What about Debbie Abrahams, Shadow
Work and Pensions Secretary? There | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
has been this row in the Labour
Party, saying that she has to step | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
aside while investigations are
carried out about bullying | 0:11:08 | 0:11:12 | |
allegations against her. Does she
deserve to know exactly what is | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
being levelled against her? I don't
know the details so it is a slightly | 0:11:15 | 0:11:21 | |
uncomfortable position. Debbie
Abrahams has done a good job in | 0:11:21 | 0:11:23 | |
highlighting what has gone wrong,
particularly with Universal Credit. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
Lethargy has helped the Government
to account on that. If there are | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
allegations, they should be
investigated. It is that there are | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
now up counter allegations from her
against the leader's office and I | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
have to say we were told there was
going to be a kinder, gentler | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
politics in the Labour Party. I am
not sure whether we are witnessing | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
that. All the allegations should be
properly investigated and all people | 0:11:45 | 0:11:49 | |
should be held to account dock How
many people have signed the early | 0:11:49 | 0:11:54 | |
day motion? I only laid down about
half an hour ago. So nobody has | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
signed it so far? I have signed it.
That is good to know. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:05 | |
Now it's time for our daily quiz. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:06 | |
Transport for London have banned
a poster from appearing at Tube | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
stations because they argue it
breaches their rules on | 0:12:09 | 0:12:11 | |
"images or messages which relate
to matters of public | 0:12:11 | 0:12:13 | |
"controversy or sensitivity." | 0:12:13 | 0:12:14 | |
So, our question today is,
what was the poster? | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
Was it a job advert
for leader of Ukip? | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
A commercial to tempt young people
to join Conservative? | 0:12:19 | 0:12:21 | |
An advert for Corbyn memorabilia? | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
Or an attempt to entice
businesspeople to move | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
France following Brexit? | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
At the end of the show,
Tom and Margaret | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
will give us the correct answer. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:34 | |
I hope so, anyway! | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
The National Security Council -
that's a cabinet committee made up | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
of senior ministers and chaired
by Theresa May - has been meeting | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
this morning in Downing Street
to consider the latest information | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
on the poisoning of Sergei
and Yulia Skripal. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
And the Prime Minister is reportedly
preparing to make a statement, | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
perhaps as early as this afternoon,
implicating Russia in the attack | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
and setting out retaliatory
measures, which could include | 0:12:52 | 0:12:56 | |
expelling Russian diplomats
and revoking the visas of Russians | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
in Britain with links
to the Kremlin, financial measures | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
to freeze Russian assets in the UK,
coordinating a response with allies, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
particularly EU countries
and the United States, | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
bolstering the presence of UK troops
and other Nato forces on the Russian | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
border in Eastern Europe,
and refusing to send officials | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
and dignitaries to the World Cup
in Russia this summer. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:29 | |
Now, before we discuss the political
consequences let's get the latest | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
on the ground from Salisbury. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:33 | |
Leila Nathoo is there. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:38 | |
What has been the reaction from
members of the public in Salisbury, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:42 | |
who have now been asked to wash
their clothes, in guidance that has | 0:13:42 | 0:13:46 | |
come nearly a week after the event?
Yes, this is guidance that has been | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
given because traces of this deadly
nerve agent have been found in two | 0:13:51 | 0:13:58 | |
locations, the restaurant and pub
that the Skripal are known to have | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
visited before they collapsed, and
this place behind me. About 500 | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
people who visited the Zizzi
restaurant and the Mill pub have | 0:14:06 | 0:14:12 | |
been asked to take the precautionary
advice and wash their clothes, wiped | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
down any items like phones or
glasses, and bag things that need to | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
be dry cleaned. This has come a week
after the incident. Officials say | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
there is no risk, no need to be
alarmed, it is just a precaution and | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
as they get new information, the
advice changes. But I think there is | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
some concern and anxiety among
people we have spoken to who have | 0:14:34 | 0:14:37 | |
been to the restaurant and the pub
that this advice has come a bit late | 0:14:37 | 0:14:42 | |
in the day as far as they're
concerned. They feel if there is a | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
risk, why weren't they told earlier
and if there is, why are they being | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
told to take these measures now? But
I think the investigation is | 0:14:49 | 0:14:55 | |
focusing really before Zizzi because
we now know that the Skripals were | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
contaminated when they got to that
restaurant. The table they sat at | 0:14:59 | 0:15:05 | |
has been destroyed, it was so
contaminated, so there are separate | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
decontamination operations taking
place around the city centre in | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
different locations to try to make
sure that is completely free of that | 0:15:12 | 0:15:15 | |
nerve agent but clearly, people
who've specifically gone to that | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
restaurant and pub will be most
concerned. Leila Nathoo, thank you. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:22 | |
And Vicki Young is outside
Downing Street for us, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
where the Prime Minister has
convened her National | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
Security Council. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
So, I'll be expecting the Prime
Minister to point the finger of | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
blame at the Russian state? Downing
Street are being very tight-lipped | 0:15:31 | 0:15:37 | |
about all of this. I think she is
determined to see clear evidence | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
before she does anything like that.
They've been in that for about an | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
hour and a half, including senior
figures like Amber Rudd, and Theresa | 0:15:45 | 0:15:49 | |
May has been under pressure from
some in her own party and from | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
people like Mr Johnson to give a
robust response. I think she wants | 0:15:52 | 0:15:58 | |
to make sure the police and security
services have had time to do their | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
job to do it properly and to come
forward with the evidence that she | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
needs. And pointing the finger of
blame at Russia is one thing but of | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
course what group would that mean?
Would it mean the Kremlin and | 0:16:10 | 0:16:14 | |
President Putin? It could be KGB or
former KGB agents, could be | 0:16:14 | 0:16:19 | |
something to do with the criminal
underworld and it is that thing she | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
needs to be sure of. They've
promised ministers there would be a | 0:16:22 | 0:16:26 | |
robust response of it is proven
Russia is behind this but to make it | 0:16:26 | 0:16:31 | |
meaningful, really, Britain has to
act alongside other countries, it | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
could be other members of the
European Union, it could be Nato. If | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
that is to happen, they certainly
will want to see clear evidence, so | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
I think that is why there has been
this cautious approach. Amber Rudd | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
talked about clear heads and they
want to be very sure they are sure | 0:16:46 | 0:16:54 | |
of the facts before they make the
announcement. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
Joining us in the studio
is James Nixey, he's the head | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
of the Russia programme
at the foreign affairs think | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
tank, Chatham House. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:02 | |
Do you welcome a cautious approach
from the Prime Minister and Home | 0:17:02 | 0:17:04 | |
Secretary over this? Caution is
prudent. You don't want to | 0:17:04 | 0:17:10 | |
miscalculated and have a cataclysmic
response by Russia. At the same | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
time, what has been proven is that
the successive policies towards | 0:17:13 | 0:17:20 | |
Russia, what we have seen
consistently, is protection of | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
well-managed, Kremlin linked
interest to have links to UK | 0:17:25 | 0:17:30 | |
solicitors, lawyers, bankers,
accountants etc. I think now is the | 0:17:30 | 0:17:33 | |
time to begin to exterminate these
in order to protect ourselves. This | 0:17:33 | 0:17:39 | |
is a chemical weapons attack, an act
of terrorism and need to -- needs to | 0:17:39 | 0:17:47 | |
be called out as such. Do you agree
with that? I think it is a terrorist | 0:17:47 | 0:17:54 | |
attack, similar in kind as well as a
nature to other terrorist attacks | 0:17:54 | 0:17:59 | |
we've had. The fact there is a
British policeman in hospital, there | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
are two attempted victims in
hospital and many hundreds of people | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
are having to take precautions for
fear of getting further harm, we can | 0:18:07 | 0:18:12 | |
see this is a very, very mass
attack, a group of people who did | 0:18:12 | 0:18:17 | |
this had no care at all for the
safety of British people. Do you | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
expect the Prime Minister to point
the finger of blame at Russia and | 0:18:20 | 0:18:24 | |
Vladimir Oudin? I am for the simple
reason this is a nerve agent. They | 0:18:24 | 0:18:30 | |
are difficult to make and very
difficult to store and they are even | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
more difficult to transport so the
idea anybody except eight state | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
actor had control of this and access
to it and would have been authorised | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
to deploy it is laughable. Do you
agree with that? Absolutely. Nerve | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
agents state property under state
control. So what about retaliatory | 0:18:48 | 0:18:52 | |
measures? You've made criticism of
government is protecting well | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
moneyed Russians here. So, hit them
where it hurts? In the pocket? | 0:18:55 | 0:19:00 | |
Absolutely because those people have
links back to Vladimir Putin. The | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
squeeze has repercussions. One can
have a much more coordinated cyber | 0:19:04 | 0:19:13 | |
response, European response, Nato
response even. It can even be | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
brought up at the UN Security
Council. In the realms of cyber, | 0:19:16 | 0:19:21 | |
military sphere and diplomatic
sphere, of course, we don't want to | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
cease diplomatic relations. So, you
wouldn't send them all home? I | 0:19:24 | 0:19:28 | |
wouldn't but I'd send those home
with proven links to other | 0:19:28 | 0:19:32 | |
affiliations other there -- other
than their designated affiliations. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:37 | |
Would that have other repercussions?
I completely concur with what has | 0:19:37 | 0:19:41 | |
been said so far but I think we have
to go deeper. It has now become the | 0:19:41 | 0:19:46 | |
jurisdiction of choice for dirty
money. Associated with organised | 0:19:46 | 0:19:51 | |
crime, criminals, all those sorts of
people. I think there is a not we | 0:19:51 | 0:19:58 | |
could do pretty quickly to try and
make us less likely to have... For | 0:19:58 | 0:20:06 | |
example? There are 85,000 properties
in the UK today that are owned by | 0:20:06 | 0:20:13 | |
shell companies, mainly located in
tax havens. Many of those Russian | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
health. If we had the public of
beneficial ownership of properties | 0:20:17 | 0:20:23 | |
which Cameron and Osborne promised
in which this government is delaying | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
until 2021, that would be one thing.
Two, we are very lax in how we allow | 0:20:27 | 0:20:33 | |
companies to be incorporated in the
UK. I know this is going on a bit | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
but it is important. Many companies
choose Britain. If we look at the | 0:20:38 | 0:20:44 | |
Scottish limited partnership, this
is a structure that was set up to | 0:20:44 | 0:20:47 | |
help farmers in Scotland in vest in
their land. There is an analysis | 0:20:47 | 0:20:53 | |
been done which shows that people of
importance, whatever it is called, | 0:20:53 | 0:21:02 | |
in the analysis done, only 4% of
them were British people and the | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
actual people who incorporated those
companies would Russians, Ukrainians | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
and people from Belarus. These
structures being used by people in | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
Russia and elsewhere to hide dirty
money and we should go... Has the | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
government failed in terms of making
get too comfortable for wealthy | 0:21:19 | 0:21:23 | |
Russians to choose London as a place
to settle? I agree with Margaret, I | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
don't think we've gone far enough. I
think dirty money not only allows | 0:21:27 | 0:21:35 | |
others from, frankly, questionable
jurisdictions to hide their ill | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
gotten gains here but it also
corrupts the system were trying to | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
protect and what we've got to do is
demonstrate the city is absolutely | 0:21:40 | 0:21:45 | |
the heart of the international
financial system and in order to do | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
that we've got to show we are clean,
honourable and law-abiding. 99% of | 0:21:47 | 0:21:53 | |
business is so what we are talking
about is sorting out a very small | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
amount of all the people who invest
in London. We need to do with | 0:21:57 | 0:22:03 | |
trusted people. Should money donated
from wealthy Russians, unless the | 0:22:03 | 0:22:08 | |
Conservative party can prove the
source of that funding, should it be | 0:22:08 | 0:22:12 | |
returned? If they are British
citizens and it is donated by | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
British citizens, I'm not a believer
that you should search for prior | 0:22:16 | 0:22:20 | |
affiliations. Refugees come from
around the world and become British | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
citizens if it is lawful British
citizens. If it is however | 0:22:23 | 0:22:27 | |
associated to an oligarch who is
still a Russian citizen and it is | 0:22:27 | 0:22:32 | |
done through a front, absolutely
not. The Prime Minister said she was | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
going to suck from a long spoon.
Wouldn't it be business as usual? It | 0:22:35 | 0:22:40 | |
shouldn't be. I'm afraid I'm not
involved in raising money. We can go | 0:22:40 | 0:22:47 | |
tougher on political donations. I
think the extent of the exposure in | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
the Sunday Times yesterday, over
£800,000 going to the Conservative | 0:22:51 | 0:22:56 | |
party, suggest we should look again
at individual donations to limit the | 0:22:56 | 0:23:03 | |
influence that people will think
that buys. Will that work? Is there | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
a risk that actually there are
people here, like Roman Debrunner | 0:23:08 | 0:23:13 | |
Fitch, people who would be put off
to invest if we make it too | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
difficult? That is correct and it
will have a negative effect on us. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
It will affect the balance of
payments. We are not over exposed to | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
the Russian economy but in order to
protect our national security, we | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
will have to incur some smaller
sacrifices. It will hurt them more | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
but it will hurt us as well. She
will never get economic sustainable | 0:23:34 | 0:23:41 | |
growth and prosperity on the back of
dirty money so while there might be | 0:23:41 | 0:23:45 | |
a short-term instant impact, in the
long-term the integrity of our legal | 0:23:45 | 0:23:49 | |
and financial systems is far more
important. What about Russia today? | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
Should any moves be made about that?
It is extraordinary that information | 0:23:53 | 0:24:00 | |
warfare by a hostile state and an
organisation that has breached its | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
broadcasting licence on numerous
occasions still has not... Still is | 0:24:04 | 0:24:10 | |
able to broadcast free. That is a
matter for Ofcom. I hope they are | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
looking at it very carefully because
this is running, and isn't just | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
Russia today but it is also another
company in Edinburgh. Do you think | 0:24:18 | 0:24:24 | |
we can achieve up anything with crop
money? You can do a lot more. You | 0:24:24 | 0:24:30 | |
can do an affectation of the
Americans act, which deals with | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
Kremlin Russians. Unexplained wealth
orders, money laundering orders. The | 0:24:34 | 0:24:40 | |
Labour Party said they tried to
amend the sanctions on intime | 0:24:40 | 0:24:45 | |
money-laundering to add a close and
led to this act only for it to be | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
blocked by your party. There are
many people on my side, including | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
Andrew Mitchell and me who have been
pushing for these orders. I'm not | 0:24:52 | 0:24:59 | |
going to go through the details of
the wet amendments and political | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
chicanery goes through the Commons
but what I will say is there are | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
many of us that have often pushed
for this and are still pushing for | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
this this is not a party matter.
Margaret and I agree on this that we | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
need to be much clearer on this and
what we need to do is do as James is | 0:25:12 | 0:25:18 | |
saying. We need to be hard line in
making sure London isn't a | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
playground for wealthy oligarchs who
are the aristocrats of a new tourist | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
regime. Let's look at the reports
that's | 0:25:25 | 0:25:33 | |
that's been published today in which
the term global Britain cannot just | 0:25:33 | 0:25:35 | |
be a slogan. What do you mean by
that? What I meant by it, or what | 0:25:35 | 0:25:40 | |
the group meant by it, is that we
need to do more than simply have a | 0:25:40 | 0:25:45 | |
slogan. We need to have the detail
of the resources behind what it | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
means. For example, one of the
things we have seen since the Brexit | 0:25:49 | 0:25:54 | |
vote is that we need to reinvest in
bilateral relations in Europe. That | 0:25:54 | 0:26:01 | |
is absolutely right but I don't
think what anybody expected was that | 0:26:01 | 0:26:06 | |
assets that come from China in order
to be invested in the European 27, | 0:26:06 | 0:26:11 | |
it doesn't strike us as global
Britain so what does global Britain | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
need? Can you put meat on the bone
so that we understand what you are | 0:26:13 | 0:26:18 | |
aiming at. I use selecting rules
-based institutions like the Asian | 0:26:18 | 0:26:24 | |
infrastructure investment bank? Are
you selecting individual bilateral | 0:26:24 | 0:26:27 | |
relations and where is the resource
coming from? You seem to blame the | 0:26:27 | 0:26:31 | |
foreign office who you say has lost
its way and there is problems with | 0:26:31 | 0:26:34 | |
leadership at the top. One of the
things we've noticed is we haven't | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
had the clarity we require from this
and I think it is up to leaders to | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
provide clarity so I am hoping we
will get that. Do you have faith in | 0:26:42 | 0:26:46 | |
Boris Johnson to deliver that? Boris
Johnson is an amazing campaigner and | 0:26:46 | 0:26:51 | |
has an amazing voice so I hope he
uses to what is at the moment are | 0:26:51 | 0:26:57 | |
refused -- a confusing situation.
Thank you. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
Now, it's already been a busy week
and its only Monday lunchtime. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
Let's take a look at what else
is happening this week. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:06 | |
As we've just been discussing,
Caroline Lucas from the Greens hopes | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
to be granted an Urgent Question
on allegations of bullying | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
in the Commons, while Tory MP
Andrew Bridgen is calling | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
for an independent inquiry
into allegations made | 0:27:14 | 0:27:15 | |
against the Speaker John Bercow. | 0:27:15 | 0:27:17 | |
Tomorrow, the Chancellor
presents his Spring Statement. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:21 | |
There'll be no Red Box,
or rabbits out of hats we're told, | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
but we'll be watching closely,
live here on the Daily Politics. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
On Wednesday, it's the weekly
showdown between Theresa May | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
and Jeremy Corbyn at
Prime Minister's Questions. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:34 | |
The PM is then set for more tough
talk with the first ministers | 0:27:34 | 0:27:38 | |
of Scotland and Wales,
over the EU Withdrawal Bill. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
On Friday, the Conservative
Party's Spring Forum gets | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
under way in London. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:45 | |
And, at the weekend,
Russia goes to the polls | 0:27:45 | 0:27:50 | |
to elect a new President. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:51 | |
The results are expected Sunday
evening, but there are few prizes | 0:27:51 | 0:27:53 | |
for guessing who'll win that one. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
We're joined now by Kate McCann
from the Telegraph and Steve | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
Hawkes from the Sun. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:03 | |
Welcome to both of you. How much
pressure is the speaker under? I | 0:28:03 | 0:28:10 | |
think John Bercow is under a
significant amount of pressure this | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
morning. As you mentioned earlier
there is an urgent question down but | 0:28:13 | 0:28:18 | |
officer he gets to decide whether it
is heard about his behaviour and the | 0:28:18 | 0:28:22 | |
behaviour of a couple of other MPs
highlighted in the Newsnight | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
investigation. It's worth looking at
what is going on behind the scenes | 0:28:26 | 0:28:30 | |
because John Bercow originally said
he'd stop being the speaker in June | 0:28:30 | 0:28:33 | |
of this year when he had served
almost two full terms. After that, | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
he quietly said he'd like to carry
on for longer which annoyed quite a | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
lot of MPs, both on the Labour side
and the conservative side who feel | 0:28:41 | 0:28:44 | |
he should give up his seat and let
somebody else have a turn. There is | 0:28:44 | 0:28:50 | |
a lot of that rumbling along
underneath all this talk about | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
bullying and what he has or hasn't
done in his office as speaker. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:57 | |
Steve, Russia, how big test of
Theresa May's leadership will be the | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
response of the government to what
has happened in Salisbury? Very big. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:06 | |
If you see the Evening Standard,
Amber Rudd is talking about a | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
powerful response to Russia, and the
Kremlin, so it is all building up to | 0:29:09 | 0:29:14 | |
quite a big showdown in the Commons,
if this statement does,. There was a | 0:29:14 | 0:29:19 | |
Security Council meeting at 11am,
and it is about the proof, how | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
decisive it as it was a Russian wet
job, as they call it, and how far | 0:29:23 | 0:29:30 | |
you can go into expelling people,
sanctions or diplomatic sanctions. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:35 | |
And also Jeremy Corbyn's response.
Last week he was act by the | 0:29:35 | 0:29:40 | |
commonest party so his response will
be fascinating. Let's talk about the | 0:29:40 | 0:29:44 | |
spring statement because this will
be a pared down event. Because it is | 0:29:44 | 0:29:48 | |
new and the big showpiece will be
later on in the year in the autumn. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:53 | |
What are we going to expect from the
Chancellor? Not very much. We were | 0:29:53 | 0:29:58 | |
talking about what we might be
highlighting this week and we almost | 0:29:58 | 0:30:02 | |
forgot the spring statement entirely
because it is probably going to be | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
boring. Don't say that! We have a
special programme on it tomorrow. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:14 | |
Don't hold out too much hope! Philip
Hammond is not called Spreadsheet | 0:30:15 | 0:30:19 | |
fill for nothing. We're not
expecting any particularly big | 0:30:19 | 0:30:23 | |
announcements at although we may see
things like consultations about | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
plastics and whether he may or may
not banned chewing gum or try to tax | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
chewing gum. But we're not expecting
anything big, we're not expecting | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
Philip Hammond to rock the boat and
he has robbed himself and the | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
Government of the ability to change
the narrative of where the | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
Government is going. He could have
done something really big and | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
exciting and set Theresa May on a
path which took a back to her Number | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
Ten speech when she said it was all
about the just about managing people | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
but he has decided not to do that
and we are going to have to wait | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
until the autumn to hear big news
from the Chancellor. Is that a | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
mistake? I know it is a relatively
low-key event enters a big | 0:30:59 | 0:31:05 | |
announcements but he could have set
something out about the narrative on | 0:31:05 | 0:31:08 | |
austerity or not austerity. For all
the talk, there will be a few people | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
talking about it tomorrow. There
will be more about Brexit | 0:31:13 | 0:31:14 | |
contingency spending, a bit more
about the national living wage, | 0:31:14 | 0:31:18 | |
which will go up in April but I
think this will be more one for the | 0:31:18 | 0:31:22 | |
geeks. Most of the play tomorrow
will be a forecast from the OBR. We | 0:31:22 | 0:31:28 | |
expect borrowing to be about 8
billion lower this fiscal year and 4 | 0:31:28 | 0:31:34 | |
billion lower next fiscal year,
which gives him a bit more with | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
room. That is what the economists
are looking for, the borrowing, and | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
how low that goes on whether the
Chancellor will get edged back | 0:31:40 | 0:31:43 | |
toward the surplus. In November they
wrote off the chances of that until | 0:31:43 | 0:31:48 | |
2025 so the detail is going to be
quite interesting. I will be | 0:31:48 | 0:31:51 | |
standing up for all the geeks, then!
Thank you both for joining us today. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:56 | |
Now, lecturers at universities
across the UK are entering | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
their third week of strike action
in a dispute over changes | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
to their pension plans. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:02 | |
Staff say they will be almost
£10,000 worse off per year | 0:32:02 | 0:32:04 | |
if the changes come into force
but university management say | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
the pension scheme has a £6 billion
deficit which can't be ignored. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
Ellie has been out on the picket
lines taking the temperature. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
Nice weather for ducks this morning. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:16 | |
And, it would seem,
striking lecturers. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:17 | |
We are outside Senate House
at the University of London, | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
and I've got my own striking
lecturer. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:22 | |
Why are you striking this morning? | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
We are striking to defend
the pensions that people | 0:32:25 | 0:32:27 | |
who work in universities -
lecturers, librarians, | 0:32:27 | 0:32:31 | |
others who work with them -
have felt were guaranteed for years | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
and are now being threat
and with a cut of up to 50%. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:37 | |
But what you're being changed
from is a guaranteed benefit | 0:32:37 | 0:32:39 | |
when you get your pension
to a guaranteed contribution system, | 0:32:39 | 0:32:42 | |
which is what most of the private
sector is on, and the universities | 0:32:42 | 0:32:45 | |
say that because there is a big,
black hole, in essence, | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
they can't afford your pensions,
so it needs to change. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
There is no black hole. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
The Vice Chancellors know this. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:54 | |
They themselves have
complained about the way | 0:32:54 | 0:32:55 | |
the calculations have been done. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
There is plenty of money
to guarantee the pensions that | 0:32:57 | 0:32:59 | |
people felt they were entitled
to when they started | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
in the profession,
sometimes decades ago. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:08 | |
We've seen a number
of these strikes already. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:10 | |
What's going to happen
if there is no resolution? | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
We hope there will be
a resolution this week. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:15 | |
There are talks at Acas. | 0:33:15 | 0:33:16 | |
If not, we will still strike
to the end of the week, and, then, | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
if there is no resolution
beyond that, more strikes | 0:33:19 | 0:33:21 | |
will happen in the summer. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:23 | |
They will happen when students
are taking their exams. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:25 | |
And it may be that some people
will end up without the degree. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
Some students may not graduate
if the employers don't come around | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
to do what's reasonable
and to deliver what | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
they've promised. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
Greg, thank you very much. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:36 | |
Well, it's quite serious stuff. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:38 | |
I think we can move around now
and find, sorry to interrupt, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
the pet student here. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:42 | |
Now, Nisha, you're supporting
the lecturers here, even though | 0:33:42 | 0:33:44 | |
we've just heard you might not
get your degree, or some students | 0:33:44 | 0:33:47 | |
might not get their degree. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:49 | |
Well, I think the changes that
are happening at the moment | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
to the pension scheme are something
that affects students | 0:33:51 | 0:33:53 | |
in the long-term. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:54 | |
You're not worried, though? | 0:33:54 | 0:33:55 | |
You're paying £9,500, you're losing
a number of teachers... | 0:33:55 | 0:33:58 | |
£16,250. | 0:33:58 | 0:33:59 | |
I'm an international student. | 0:33:59 | 0:34:00 | |
Even worse! | 0:34:00 | 0:34:02 | |
How do you justify that, then? | 0:34:02 | 0:34:04 | |
The thing is, I don't think fees
should exist at all in education. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
I'm completely against fees. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
And I think that there are other
questions that these strikes | 0:34:08 | 0:34:10 | |
are raising right now. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:12 | |
Because the university sector has
effectively been brought | 0:34:12 | 0:34:15 | |
to a standstill this has been
a really great opportunity | 0:34:15 | 0:34:17 | |
for students to start questioning
why is it I have to pay | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
for my education? | 0:34:20 | 0:34:21 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:22 | |
Let me take you over
here to the other important | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
part of this strike,
which is the tea station. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:27 | |
And I think we've got... | 0:34:27 | 0:34:28 | |
Hello, have you had any students
who are a bit annoyed that they've | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
lost their teaching days
and they are paying all this money? | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
I think it's astonishing how
supportive the students have been. | 0:34:34 | 0:34:36 | |
Maybe there are some
who don't say anything, | 0:34:36 | 0:34:38 | |
cos they realise they're not
going to get a good reception, | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
but nearly everyone is on board,
they recognise why the lecturers | 0:34:41 | 0:34:43 | |
are doing this, so, yeah,
it's been really great | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
to have their support. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:47 | |
All right, thank you very much. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:48 | |
It looks like there might be a bit
of brownie left, so, you know, | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
far be it to be involved but this
strike could continue | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
to the end of the week,
and into the summer, who knows. | 0:34:54 | 0:35:01 | |
Ellie trying to dip into the
sustenance there! | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
Joining me now is Keith Simpson. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:04 | |
He's a lecturer at City University | 0:35:04 | 0:35:06 | |
and a member of the University
and College Union, who are | 0:35:06 | 0:35:08 | |
organising the strike. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:09 | |
And we're joined from Nottingham by
the pensions expert John Ralph. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
We did invite Universities UK,
the group who represent universities | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
in the dispute, onto the programme
but they didn't have | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
anyone available. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:18 | |
But I'm delighted that you two are
here. First of all, Keith Simpson, | 0:35:18 | 0:35:22 | |
how do you justify potentially
depriving students of their degrees | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
and, in broad terms, their
education? I think the situation is | 0:35:26 | 0:35:31 | |
that we have taken this industrial
action to make sure that students | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
are not deprived of education. This
is about your pensions. It is but it | 0:35:34 | 0:35:40 | |
is also about education generally.
We have also taken industrial action | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
that we think shows the employers we
are serious about this, and that | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
this will resolve the matter as
quickly as possible. When we started | 0:35:47 | 0:35:52 | |
this dispute, vice chancellors
across the country were saying that | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
there was no resolution possible,
that there was a massive black hole. | 0:35:55 | 0:36:00 | |
Now quite a lot of them of come out
saying that there is room for | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
negotiations and talks, and that is
exactly what we are going to do. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
That is what is happening at Acas
today and we hope that this dispute | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
is over before the end of the week.
Do you agree with Keith Simpson? Is | 0:36:12 | 0:36:17 | |
he right to say there is a
resolution that is possible? You | 0:36:17 | 0:36:23 | |
have advised employers, including in
this sector. What of the scale of | 0:36:23 | 0:36:28 | |
the pension problem? I have followed
pension schemes for many years and | 0:36:28 | 0:36:31 | |
as far as this is concerned, there
is more misinformation and | 0:36:31 | 0:36:34 | |
disinformation than I have ever seen
before. Of all the three parties | 0:36:34 | 0:36:40 | |
that are involved, USS the pension
scheme, you the union, and Unico, | 0:36:40 | 0:36:45 | |
the employers, they're all in denial
to various degrees. And I'm sorry to | 0:36:45 | 0:36:50 | |
correct you, the deficit is not £6
billion. The deficit in the last | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
published, audited accounts of US S,
March 2017, was £17.5 billion. My | 0:36:55 | 0:37:03 | |
concern is that all the three
parties, for different reasons, are | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
in denial about the extent of the
problem. They're all throwing up | 0:37:06 | 0:37:11 | |
smoke screens. I don't know what the
answer is but from a technical | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
forensic point of view, we need to
have the facts on the table, and the | 0:37:15 | 0:37:19 | |
facts on the table are people living
longer, real interest rates are | 0:37:19 | 0:37:23 | |
going down, therefore the cost of
providing pensions is going up and | 0:37:23 | 0:37:26 | |
that affects all employers. Added to
that, in the case of USS, the huge | 0:37:26 | 0:37:33 | |
deficit, the largest deficit, 17.5
billion, though we have ever seen | 0:37:33 | 0:37:37 | |
any UK pension scheme, is
self-inflicted. USS don't want to | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
own up to that. It is self-inflicted
because the last ten years or more, | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
they have been at the casino and it
has not paid off. Well, deficit is | 0:37:45 | 0:37:51 | |
even bigger, £17.5 billion. John
seems to make a living by on and | 0:37:51 | 0:37:57 | |
wrecking people's pensions. Are you
saying he is wrong? That figure is | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
incorrect? I am not a pensions
expert. I went directly to the | 0:38:00 | 0:38:06 | |
people that I think do know
something about it, the professors | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
that work at city University's
business school. Some of them are | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
actuarial scientists and they say
that the U UK position is very | 0:38:12 | 0:38:18 | |
negative and that this situation can
be resolved. I am not an expert. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:23 | |
John Grimes on all of these
programmes saying these things. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:27 | |
There is no black hole, and the
pension is actually getting more in | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
every year than is taken out of it.
It has got a long-term future, and | 0:38:32 | 0:38:38 | |
UK universities are something to be
proud of. They're not going to | 0:38:38 | 0:38:41 | |
disappear. We have some of the
leading universities in the world. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:46 | |
This is a sustainable pension fund
and you see you have put forward | 0:38:46 | 0:38:53 | |
proposals that we are talking about
at Acas that will make sure it is | 0:38:53 | 0:38:58 | |
sustainable for the future. Answer
that criticism and your reputation | 0:38:58 | 0:39:01 | |
in saying that you are wrong on
this. I hope I don't need to defend | 0:39:01 | 0:39:07 | |
my reputation. The 17.5 bigger is
not a figure that I have calculated | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
or estimated. It is in the published
report and accounts, done on exactly | 0:39:11 | 0:39:16 | |
the same basis that the other 5000
pension schemes on the UK have to | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
prepare their accounts. What
surprises me is that anybody thinks | 0:39:20 | 0:39:26 | |
that universities can be immune to
the changes that are happening - | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
repeat, people living longer, real
interest rates are lower. Look at | 0:39:30 | 0:39:34 | |
the 5000 pension schemes in the UK.
Most of them have already closed and | 0:39:34 | 0:39:38 | |
moved from defined benefit to
defined contribution and I have to | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
say, that includes the pension
schemes of a lot of the individual | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
universities so if you are a
clerical employee at university you | 0:39:46 | 0:39:50 | |
are in a different scheme and the
lot of those aboard a close. Do you | 0:39:50 | 0:39:56 | |
support the strike, Margaret? I
think this is an issue... Let me | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
deal with the actuarial position
first. I think that would be | 0:39:59 | 0:40:02 | |
agreement across the two parties as
to the precise actuarial position. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:06 | |
These judgments so they should both
do it and then they should get on | 0:40:06 | 0:40:09 | |
and negotiated top I agree that
people are living longer, interest | 0:40:09 | 0:40:13 | |
rates are low and therefore moving
from defined contribution... From | 0:40:13 | 0:40:18 | |
benefits to a contribution system is
important. But at the back of all of | 0:40:18 | 0:40:23 | |
this, it sticks in the gullet, at
the same time as academics who are | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
not well paid are being asked to
give up their pension, you have vice | 0:40:26 | 0:40:32 | |
chancellors on huge, hefty sums of
money which will give them very, | 0:40:32 | 0:40:36 | |
very generous pensions when they
come out of... Do you agree, Tom | 0:40:36 | 0:40:44 | |
Tugendhat? Do you have any sympathy
for this strike or do you think | 0:40:44 | 0:40:47 | |
people like these should get back to
work? I have a huge sympathy while | 0:40:47 | 0:40:52 | |
students losing education, I have
huge sympathy for people who planned | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
the future and find out is not going
to be as it appeared. But the | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
reality is that we are living longer
and that is a great thing, it gives | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
grandparents time with their
children, a lot of people a lot more | 0:41:02 | 0:41:08 | |
time with families, and that is
fantastic news but it does mean we | 0:41:08 | 0:41:11 | |
need to change the way we do things.
Can you think of any other strike | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
that has happened as a result of
closing a final salary scheme that | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
has resulted in a change?
I can't see any change that has | 0:41:16 | 0:41:22 | |
happened where we are talking about
a thriving, multi-billion | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
contributions of the British
economy. So you don't take on board | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
the whole point about living longer,
but these schemes are much more | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
expensive as a result of that?
People are living longer but, | 0:41:32 | 0:41:37 | |
actually, that is one reason why you
should have a good pension, because | 0:41:37 | 0:41:40 | |
I think, as Margaret said, we are
not well paid. University lecturers | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
and support staff don't go into this
to make lots of money. We have not | 0:41:45 | 0:41:50 | |
got a generous pension scheme even
now. We are defending something that | 0:41:50 | 0:41:55 | |
is good but is not the best. The
teachers' pension scheme is much | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
better than ours at the moment and
if we see the decline in our | 0:41:58 | 0:42:03 | |
pensions scheme, how are we going to
recruit the brilliant academics that | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
are actually making this a success
across the world? After Brexit we | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
will need to have the best
researchers, the best universities, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:17 | |
to compete. We have to finish it
there. John Ralfe and Keith Simpson, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:21 | |
thank you very much. | 0:42:21 | 0:42:24 | |
Now, staying in higher education,
a graduate is suing her former | 0:42:24 | 0:42:26 | |
university for giving her
what she called | 0:42:26 | 0:42:28 | |
a "Mickey Mouse degree." | 0:42:28 | 0:42:29 | |
Fiona Pok studied
International Business Strategy | 0:42:29 | 0:42:30 | |
at Anglia Ruskin University,
in Cambridge, but she says | 0:42:30 | 0:42:32 | |
that the claims in the prospectus
about high-quality teaching | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
and excellent career
prospects were overblown. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:36 | |
And she joins us now. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:41 | |
In particular, what do you think
Anglia Ruskin misrepresented in the | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
prospectus? In my opinion, the
University misrepresented the course | 0:42:44 | 0:42:50 | |
as to the quality of the course and
also what kind of resources they | 0:42:50 | 0:42:55 | |
have. They misrepresented the
prospect of a career, what kind of | 0:42:55 | 0:42:59 | |
job or what area you will end up in,
working in, after you graduate from | 0:42:59 | 0:43:04 | |
the course. Have you had any joy
with getting a job, having | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
graduated? Well, I know a lot of
people misunderstood that I have not | 0:43:07 | 0:43:14 | |
been able to get a job at the thing
is, the main point is, they | 0:43:14 | 0:43:19 | |
exaggerated the prospects of a
career, studying with them, and also | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
they exaggerate how connected the
network the has with, like, | 0:43:23 | 0:43:31 | |
regional, national or international
companies because at that time they | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
say they will help students or
graduates to find employment in a | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
lot of the big companies because
they have a connection with them. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
What I found was so misrepresented
is, when I finished my study I | 0:43:43 | 0:43:49 | |
signed on at the career advice
bureau and tried to get some career | 0:43:49 | 0:43:52 | |
advice to see if any job
opportunities that I was hoping to | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
land on, and I find out the only
source they had was copy and pasted | 0:43:57 | 0:44:01 | |
from other companies, the
recruitment agencies already | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
available on the internet,
accessible by the public. How much | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
are you suing them for? I am suing
them for over £60,000. And you think | 0:44:08 | 0:44:15 | |
that is justified, for students to
decide the quality of teaching and | 0:44:15 | 0:44:18 | |
whether it is satisfactory? You
graduated with a first, I | 0:44:18 | 0:44:23 | |
understand. Is it really the
responsibility of Anglia Ruskin to | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
guarantee you a job in the way you
have just outlined? I think you | 0:44:26 | 0:44:31 | |
misunderstood. I am not saying they
have to guarantee me a job but they | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
have no right to make empty promises
if they have no capacity to deliver | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
them. They have released a statement
saying, "We are well aware of the | 0:44:38 | 0:44:44 | |
claims made by this former student
and robustly defending the current | 0:44:44 | 0:44:49 | |
litigation". Has the university been
supportive in your concerns? What do | 0:44:49 | 0:44:54 | |
you mean? I mean, have they
understood... Before you decided to | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
take the action to sue, did you talk
to the university about your | 0:44:57 | 0:45:02 | |
concerns? Of course. I have been
talking to them for over six years. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
Internal complaints, external
complaints procedure has been gone | 0:45:06 | 0:45:11 | |
through, so there was no other thing
I could do. All right, thank you | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
very much for joining us. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
Comic Relief - or Red Nose Day
as it's better known - | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
has raised over £1 billion
for charities around the world | 0:45:21 | 0:45:23 | |
since it began 30 years ago. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:24 | |
Its subsidiary, Sport Relief,
returns this weekend, | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
encouraging the public
to "get active, raise money | 0:45:26 | 0:45:28 | |
"and change lives". | 0:45:28 | 0:45:29 | |
But Labour MP David Lammy questions
whether it's doing enough. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
This is his Soapbox. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
KLAXON | 0:45:35 | 0:45:36 | |
CHEERING | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
From this weekend, thousands
of Britons will be raising | 0:45:40 | 0:45:44 | |
money for Sport Relief,
a biannual telephone that asks | 0:45:44 | 0:45:49 | |
Britons all over the country to part
with their cash to help | 0:45:49 | 0:45:53 | |
poverty stricken Africans. | 0:45:53 | 0:45:59 | |
Sport Relief and Comic Relief have
tattooed images of poverty in Africa | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
into our national psyche to such
an extent that few of us can escape | 0:46:02 | 0:46:06 | |
the guilt of not donating. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:12 | |
A billion people reduced to just
one prevailing image - | 0:46:12 | 0:46:17 | |
mothers, desperate, crying,
worried for their children, | 0:46:17 | 0:46:22 | |
and children with swollen
bellies, hungry. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
This is not to say that dire
poverty is not persistent, | 0:46:25 | 0:46:31 | |
or that images of suffering is not
the most effective | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
way to raise money. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
But Sport Relief surely
has to be different. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:42 | |
Life expectancies are up over 10%
in 37 African states. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:48 | |
Economic growth in the 11 largest
sub-Saharan countries | 0:46:48 | 0:46:52 | |
was double the world
average in the past decade. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:57 | |
The Nigerian film industry,
Nollywood, has overtaken Hollywood | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
as the world's second-largest
movie-maker. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:06 | |
Sport Relief should be helping
to establish the people of Africa | 0:47:06 | 0:47:10 | |
as equals to be respected,
not as victims to be pitied. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:15 | |
So, rather than getting celebrities
to act as tour guides, | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
why not get Africans to talk
for themselves about the continent | 0:47:19 | 0:47:23 | |
and the problems that they know? | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:47:26 | 0:47:31 | |
Sport Relief
and Comic Relief should do more | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
to challenge their audience. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
Challenge their audience not just
to feel guilty but to feel angry. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:42 | |
Angry that despite the wars that
plague the continent, | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
the international world places more
restrictions on bananas | 0:47:46 | 0:47:48 | |
than they do AK-47s. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:54 | |
Get their audience thinking
about trade and about governance. | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
Don't just present a reservoir
of poverty but help people | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
understand what sustained
change really means. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:05 | |
So, this year, let's have a debate
about the big issues - | 0:48:05 | 0:48:09 | |
trade, dictatorship,
debt, education - | 0:48:09 | 0:48:13 | |
in the continent of Africa. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
Of course the fundraising
is worthwhile but the Red Nose Day | 0:48:15 | 0:48:19 | |
formula is tired and hugely
patronising to the people | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
of a great continent. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:28 | |
David Lammy is here,
as is Ben Maitland, | 0:48:28 | 0:48:30 | |
a spokesperson for Comic Relief. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:37 | |
It's tired and hugely patronising.
What do you think about Comic Relief | 0:48:37 | 0:48:42 | |
and Sport Relief? We wouldn't accept
that and we've been looking at the | 0:48:42 | 0:48:46 | |
very issues David is talking about
and we are constantly seeking to | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
change how we make our funds. We are
very excited and proud of the | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
changes we've been making and we are
going to see for the first time real | 0:48:53 | 0:48:58 | |
focus on local voices and local
heroes be they community health | 0:48:58 | 0:49:03 | |
workers or nurses, talking about the
work they're doing. Equally it is | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
important remember Sport Relief is
50% is spent here and 50% is spent | 0:49:07 | 0:49:15 | |
internationally. In particular over
the last couple of weeks, we've been | 0:49:15 | 0:49:19 | |
really proud of the public debate,
exactly the type of debate David | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
talks about, that both Zoe Ball and
Greg James have sparked about mental | 0:49:22 | 0:49:28 | |
health. I'm always amazed about the
amount of money raised and the | 0:49:28 | 0:49:35 | |
generosity of people here. Doesn't
it prove it works? It is all very | 0:49:35 | 0:49:40 | |
well questioning whether or not it
is the right tone, or should we talk | 0:49:40 | 0:49:45 | |
about trade and dictatorship, but
this is raising money for poor parts | 0:49:45 | 0:49:48 | |
of the world and it works. It
doesn't work if it compounds the | 0:49:48 | 0:49:53 | |
problem is. My constituents are not
am elated about Sport Relief and, | 0:49:53 | 0:49:57 | |
grief because many of them come from
African countries and they know | 0:49:57 | 0:50:01 | |
that, as Leeds University knows that
British primary school children, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:07 | |
their formative impressions of
Africa come from Red Nose Day and | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
what they talk about people who are
starving, people who are poor and | 0:50:10 | 0:50:15 | |
victims. Are they not accurate?
We've just heard that Sport Relief | 0:50:15 | 0:50:19 | |
and Comic Relief are happy to use
British voices articulating on | 0:50:19 | 0:50:23 | |
behalf of themselves in relation to
British poverty. They don't use that | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
in relation to Africans and their
issues which is what they need to be | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
pushed on. It is those local heroes,
albeit in Kenny or Sierra Leone, | 0:50:31 | 0:50:37 | |
that will be at the heart of the
forms we are making. They will be | 0:50:37 | 0:50:42 | |
talking about our partnerships. We
have a generational opportunity to | 0:50:42 | 0:50:49 | |
eradicate an appalling disease and
we're working with global partners | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
and local workers on the ground, and
telling their story. The important | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
thing to remember with Comic Relief
and Sport Relief is the platform | 0:50:57 | 0:51:01 | |
they have from the BBC is immense,
no other charity gets hours and | 0:51:01 | 0:51:06 | |
hours of programming and television
to influence the dish public. No one | 0:51:06 | 0:51:11 | |
wants to knock charity but let's
remember that the dire spread | 0:51:11 | 0:51:15 | |
communities right around the world,
let's educate the public, why is it | 0:51:15 | 0:51:24 | |
when people think of Nigeria think
of somewhere that is war-torn, not | 0:51:24 | 0:51:29 | |
with downtown Lagos with huge
buildings. And what role do | 0:51:29 | 0:51:35 | |
charities play in perpetuating an
image of swollen bellies, children | 0:51:35 | 0:51:38 | |
with flies running around them? Last
time on Comic Relief, you had three | 0:51:38 | 0:51:44 | |
black children die over the hours.
You wouldn't have done that if it | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
was Britain. But it was OK because
it was a black child. That is the | 0:51:47 | 0:51:52 | |
thing we have to question. Well, I
think it is right we continue to | 0:51:52 | 0:51:58 | |
change and evolve and we put local
voices at the heart of what we show. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
Ed Sheeran? He isn't local, Izzy? We
will see differences in how our | 0:52:02 | 0:52:08 | |
films are made this year. We
currently fund 1,000 different | 0:52:08 | 0:52:13 | |
charities and organisations here and
around the world and our obligation | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
is to continue raising money so we
continue that vital work to make | 0:52:17 | 0:52:21 | |
sure the money gets to people who
needed. How is it vital if it | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
continues a perception of a kind of
imperialist colonialist... You seen | 0:52:25 | 0:52:30 | |
the problems charities have found
themselves in where there is a | 0:52:30 | 0:52:34 | |
perception of who is accountable?
How is their scrutiny? How do you | 0:52:34 | 0:52:39 | |
hold yourself up to the best of your
intentions? Those are the big issues | 0:52:39 | 0:52:44 | |
that are emerging for International
development. And that is exactly how | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
we found grassroots organisations to
make sure that money goes where it | 0:52:48 | 0:52:54 | |
is needed most. So we seek money
from grant-making so we ensure there | 0:52:54 | 0:53:01 | |
is a strong voice in what we do.
What about the issue of trade? What | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
would you like to see governments
to? We need a transaction tax. And I | 0:53:05 | 0:53:11 | |
think the international development
charities should be very public | 0:53:11 | 0:53:14 | |
about that. There are problems in
the ways big institutions like the | 0:53:14 | 0:53:19 | |
EU are set up that put a
stranglehold on African countries. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:23 | |
You should be up against it for
lobbing politically as well as | 0:53:23 | 0:53:27 | |
saying give money. Would you be
comfortable doing that? We are not a | 0:53:27 | 0:53:31 | |
political organisation and we are
proud not to be. I'm part of the | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
generation that grew up with Comic
Relief and remember the first Red | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
Nose Day back in 1988 so what we've
done is bring a whole generation of | 0:53:38 | 0:53:43 | |
people back into these issues you
haven't paid much attention before | 0:53:43 | 0:53:47 | |
and we are proud of that. And to see
how people we've inspired are | 0:53:47 | 0:53:54 | |
engaging is great. Amnesty
International have a stronger | 0:53:54 | 0:53:56 | |
political voice and they do it
better than we should. I think that | 0:53:56 | 0:54:02 | |
relief is something we've done is a
government and we've done it in a | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
targeted manner because what we
don't want to do is giving debt | 0:54:05 | 0:54:08 | |
interest into a dictator but to a
country that is growing. David was | 0:54:08 | 0:54:13 | |
right because he talks about trade.
One of the things were doing is | 0:54:13 | 0:54:17 | |
we're rethinking our trade you
disease-mac policy. I'd like to see | 0:54:17 | 0:54:23 | |
Barry is coming down to trade with
countries like Ghana and run wonder | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
that have done and commenced amount
of reform locally and are poised to | 0:54:26 | 0:54:32 | |
exploit this link with the United
Kingdom. I'd like to see those | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
countries getting richer. Isn't
there a problem to attaching | 0:54:35 | 0:54:40 | |
conditions to aid with the poor
parts of Africa because they may | 0:54:40 | 0:54:42 | |
have a dictator? A lot of these
countries are run by dictators and | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
you deprive the countries of the
money you need. We should challenge | 0:54:45 | 0:54:50 | |
corruption where ever it exists but
I would say a very simple thing that | 0:54:50 | 0:54:53 | |
we could do which could help even
more than you do through charitable | 0:54:53 | 0:54:57 | |
giving and that is another amendment
to the bill we were talking about | 0:54:57 | 0:55:02 | |
earlier on money-laundering. If we
had transparency in our overseas | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
territories, our tax havens, at a
stroke you to stop money being | 0:55:07 | 0:55:16 | |
exported by those dictators into the
tax havens. These poor countries | 0:55:16 | 0:55:22 | |
lose three times as much in money
from tax avoidance as they gain in | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
development aid. On that, thank you
for coming in. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:30 | |
There's just time before we go
to find out the answer to our quiz. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:33 | |
The question was which poster have
Transport for London banned | 0:55:33 | 0:55:35 | |
from their Tube stations? | 0:55:35 | 0:55:36 | |
Was it... | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
A job advert for leader of Ukip? | 0:55:38 | 0:55:39 | |
A commercial to tempt young people
to join Conservative? | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
An advert for Corbyn memorabilia? | 0:55:42 | 0:55:43 | |
Or an attempt to entice
business people to move | 0:55:43 | 0:55:45 | |
France following Brexit? | 0:55:45 | 0:55:46 | |
So, what's the correct answer? | 0:55:46 | 0:55:49 | |
It's got to be France. You're right!
You're so pleased with yourselves | 0:55:49 | 0:55:55 | |
and good for you. | 0:55:55 | 0:55:56 | |
Yes, a spoof lonely hearts advert
telling British businesses | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
to contact Mr Norman D
to avoid post-Brexit tariffs | 0:55:58 | 0:56:03 | |
has appeared online but banned
by Transport for London | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
on the grounds of "public
controversy or sensitivity." | 0:56:07 | 0:56:09 | |
The advert, released
by the Normandy Development Agency, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:12 | |
which promotes growth in the region
of northern France, | 0:56:12 | 0:56:15 | |
seeks "hot entrepreneurs" and boasts
"You will find the process | 0:56:15 | 0:56:19 | |
"as smooth as our Camembert
or our oysters, for that matter." | 0:56:19 | 0:56:24 | |
French journalist
Marie Le Conte is here. | 0:56:24 | 0:56:29 | |
It is actually quite funny, isn't
it? Do you think transport for | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
London has had a sense of humour
loss? I think they did. I am | 0:56:33 | 0:56:38 | |
entirely biased on this because my
family is from Normandy, but I | 0:56:38 | 0:56:42 | |
thought it was | 0:56:42 | 0:56:48 | |
thought it was very funny. The Brits
can dish it out but can't take it, | 0:56:49 | 0:56:50 | |
clearly. It is a light-hearted
attempt, but do you think it will | 0:56:50 | 0:56:52 | |
work? I'm not sure and I mean it
with love. Normandy isn't the most | 0:56:52 | 0:56:54 | |
exciting bit of France. It does seem
to be cheeky, audacious at the very | 0:56:54 | 0:57:03 | |
least. Or may be imaginative by the
local Mormon tea Council. It is and | 0:57:03 | 0:57:08 | |
they make a valid point that there
is so much incentive for businesses | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
in the UK, and businesses might be
looking to move somewhere else, so | 0:57:13 | 0:57:18 | |
there is a real pointer. Is it a
false promise? All this idea of | 0:57:18 | 0:57:23 | |
smooth camembert and oysters and
coastal walks. Do you think it is | 0:57:23 | 0:57:30 | |
really fake news? I mean... Not
really. The one thing I'll say is | 0:57:30 | 0:57:36 | |
the weather is basically the same in
Normandy as in the UK so no big | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
changes there. It isn't fake news.
Businesses would be perfectly happy | 0:57:40 | 0:57:45 | |
in Normandy should they want to move
there. Right, you two, is transport | 0:57:45 | 0:57:49 | |
for London not joining in the fun?
Or is there a serious point? I think | 0:57:49 | 0:57:54 | |
they've taken it too hard here. I
think Normandy is a fantastic place | 0:57:54 | 0:57:59 | |
freight holiday but not the centre
of business as London is. Each to | 0:57:59 | 0:58:06 | |
their own. I don't know any
camembert manufacturers in London | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
but perhaps I'm wrong. Oyster growth
is actually coming back to the | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
Thames. What would your
counterproposal be? What would you | 0:58:13 | 0:58:20 | |
do to make sure British
entrepreneurs stay here? I think | 0:58:20 | 0:58:22 | |
they should move to Kent. English
cheese is coming into its own at the | 0:58:22 | 0:58:27 | |
moment so it may well be our version
of camembert is the as tasty as the | 0:58:27 | 0:58:31 | |
French but I think transport for
London have gone too far. This is | 0:58:31 | 0:58:36 | |
Brexit, we are expecting competition
with people who have been partners, | 0:58:36 | 0:58:39 | |
they are now our competitors. We
should not be surprised. You have | 0:58:39 | 0:58:45 | |
left me hungry with camembert,
oysters and English cheese. Thank | 0:58:45 | 0:58:47 | |
you all very much. | 0:58:47 | 0:58:49 | |
Thanks to our guests. | 0:58:49 | 0:58:50 | |
The one o'clock news is starting
over on BBC One now. | 0:58:50 | 0:58:53 | |
I'll be here at noon tomorrow
with all the big political stories | 0:58:53 | 0:58:56 | |
of the day. | 0:58:56 | 0:58:57 | |
Do join me then. | 0:58:57 | 0:58:58 |